Live From Los Angeles at the Regent Theater 2019

Hey, Jesse, it's me, Judge John Hodgman.

Is this an ordinary episode of Judge John Hodgman?

No, this is a live episode recorded in Los Angeles at the Regent Theater downtown.

We've also got musical guest Pete Fields of Slow Motion Cowboys on the show.

Hey, I remember doing this because it's in my past, and I remember it being a really good time.

I can't wait to hear it.

Let's go to the stage for some live justice.

Los Angeles, California, you've come to us desperate for justice, and we're here at the Regent Theater to deliver it.

Please welcome to the stage our first set of litigants, Meg and Claire.

Tonight's case.

Driving Miss Justice.

Meg brings the case against her friend Claire.

Claire insists on driving everywhere they go together, but Meg would like to take turns.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference.

My brother would always ask guys in a dispute with their wives or girlfriends one question.

Would you rather be right or happy?

In his own life, he chose right, and hence he leaves behind two wives and a pastle of children and grandchildren.

Baylor Jesse Thorne, swear them in.

Meg Claire, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God or whatever.

Or whatever.

Yes.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact he's not even the strongest singer on this stage right now?

Especially for that reason.

No comment.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

You may be seated.

Meg and Claire, for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours' favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I emerged from my chambers just now here in Los Angeles, my portable chambers.

Meg, why don't you go first?

I'm going to turn to my hand answer.

That's fine.

And say the Dana Gould Hour?

The Dana Gould Hour, a different...

You know, this is a different podcast.

I do.

I do.

That's a good idea.

It's a little bit of pandering.

This is, oh, I appreciate it.

We love Dana Gould, of course.

And it's impossible.

There's always this free advertising for the Dana Gould Hour.

Not available on Maximum Fun.

It's actually technically impossible for it to come from the Dana Gould Hour if it's not about Universal Monster Movies or Planet of the Edge.

That's true.

All right, but you know what?

It's a fair guess.

I will add it to the guest book, which is this piece of paper here.

And I'm making like I'm writing something down.

All right, there we go.

You really did just drop exquigly line.

Yeah, that's it.

Claire, it's your turn.

What do you guess?

The song Bitch and Camaro.

Bitch and Camaro?

Interesting guess.

Interesting guess.

That was actually a cultural reference on the Judge John Hodgman podcast about cars many, many years ago.

So, no.

Your guess is wrong.

Meg's guess is wrong.

Jesse, did you have a guess?

No, I was just going to mention that the dead milkman tweeted at us and it was really fun.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, the dead milkman totally tweeted at us when Bitch and Camaro was on Judge Don Hodges.

You have to give me a call on my landline when something like that happens, Jesse.

I might miss it.

So

there's one person out there who has not stopped clapping for the dead milkman.

Just still going and going and going.

Yeah,

I see you, okay?

I'm with you on this, but you have to stop it now.

All guesses are wrong.

I was actually quoting Ray Maliazzi speaking about the death of his brother, Tom Maliazzi.

Ray and Tom, and Claire, you're expressing some frustration because you were probably going to guess click and clack the Tappet brothers

or

Car Talk, which is what you are about to turn our podcast into.

What was your guess going to be?

You're so upset.

Wait, hold on.

Before you answer that question, let me read some jokes my uncle forwarded me via email.

I love Car Talk with all my heart, sincerely.

I was going to say,

how dare you?

I really do love Car Talk.

Car Talk, two white guys talking together, it was the birth of all podcasts.

And I would say one of two shows that most influenced my decision to want to to do this one, just to talk with people and have fun, those being Car Talk and, of course, the best show with Tom Sharpling.

But what I have often heard from people like you who are natives of Massachusetts is that

you mean in New England?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's one of the five states and Commonwealths of Massachusetts.

Car Talk and The Fighter are what inspired them to get into show business.

That's right.

That's right.

That's right.

You know, my middle name is The Departed?

Not a lot of people know that.

But before we get to your case, Claire, you were expressing frustration

because you were in that realm and why you were.

It was just the obvious choice, and it did occur to me that you might go there because it's Massachusetts stuff.

Yeah,

and it's talk about cars.

Next time you want to express frustration, please do so audibly.

Because it's hard for me to narrate for the listening audience.

Meg, you're currently laughing, but holding your hand over your mouth.

Again, defeating the purpose of audio entertainment.

Trying not to be too annoying with my laughter.

So what is the nature of this dispute?

So I have brought the case against my friend Claire.

I'm Meg, in case you need to tell the difference between voices, good luck with that.

I

am never allowed to drive.

And in Los Angeles, there's a lot

of state.

No, by Claire.

Oh, by Claire.

Claire never allows me to drive when we take adventures, do things as friends.

And there are a few things that go along with that, including feeling kind of grummy about the fact that she doesn't trust me or my car.

I see.

And that.

So you are a licensed driver.

I am absolutely a licensed driver.

And you are a car owner or leaser?

I am a car owner.

Yes.

And you, Claire, you're not an employee of the Department of Motor Vehicles or otherwise allowed to say who gets to drive and who doesn't?

I am not.

So you guys are friends.

How do you guys know each other?

We met in graduate school.

Okay.

What were you studying in graduate school?

We are both studying, we were both studying policy analysis.

I graduated last July and Meg is almost done.

Congratulations.

Yeah.

Shout out to policy, huh?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's important.

Dr.

Claire to you.

Dr.

Claire, I do pardon you.

Thank you.

I do beg your pardon, I should say.

And Meg, you will become Dr.

Meg?

That is good.

If you don't fail?

If I don't fail out, yes.

Yeah.

At this point, it's like that slow crawl towards dissertation that's happening.

I never knew.

I have a bachelor's degree.

Oh, wow.

That was enough for a white man in 1993.

And probably still is.

I judge that fair.

Okay, so Claire, excuse me, Dr.

Claire, why do you dislike driving or being driven by Meg in her car?

Her car is disgusting.

Ah!

I thought you were friends.

Tell me how it is disgusting.

I know that you sent in some evidence, some photo evidence that we will look at, but just generally speaking, are we talking about dirt?

Are we talking about smells?

Are we talking about that it is a Subaru?

Are we talking about.

That part is true.

I grew up with Subarus.

New England.

They look better when they're dirty.

We both drive Subarus.

Oh, all right.

Obviously.

So there's no.

sorry that was not obvious to me.

I don't see car ownership clichés

Okay, so it's not a brand issue, it is just a dirt and cleanliness issue.

So this all stems from a single incident.

I did not always have this prohibition.

Meg and I both belonged to a climbing gym.

We were

And a self-parody association.

We were in the parking lot of our climbing gym, and we were going to go to a concert that night.

What was the concert?

Please say OAR.

Please say OAR.

No.

It was Junior Junior.

Let the record show.

I don't know what you're talking about.

It's a band from Michigan.

It's a band for Michigan?

Which is my home state as well.

Oh, lovely.

So you're going to go to the concert, and what happened?

Meg is a little bit behind me, and she, I guess, like, I'm going to the car before she does, and I open my car.

Right, you're rushing to get into the driver's seat.

I guess I know.

I was getting in the passenger seat of her car,

and I am greeted by a horrible smell.

And I look to see where the smell is coming from, and in the cup holder, there is like a

plastic iced coffee sort of cup with an inch or two of liquid in it.

It was boba.

Okay.

I'm not sure that that's a good defense.

No, but if we're however the record will the record will reflect the presence of tapioca balls.

Thank you.

So entered.

In my recollection, there were no tapioca balls, but there was an apple core suspended in said liquid.

What?

Come on, Meg.

Boba's come on.

Apple core, get into the boba.

This is a classic locked boba mystery.

It's like, John, have you ever been to the Pinkberry where they got the Captain Crunch and the little mochis and all that stuff?

No, but I dig the word painting you're painting for me.

Yeah.

At the Boba place these days, you get fruit Detroitus.

It's like when you check into a fancy hotel and there's cucumbers in the water.

Yeah.

There's apple cores in the boba now.

Apple cores in the boba.

Quick question, follow-up question, Claire.

The smell was due to oldness of the boba and the core?

I believe so, yes.

Okay.

I was about to make a real dad joke that didn't amount to anything, and I stopped myself, and I deserve applause.

Meg, what was going on with the core and the boba?

So this was a while ago, several years ago at this point.

And there was a...

I appreciate why it would be unforgettable.

There's a time in my life about three years ago where I was getting separated and divorced.

I also went to treatment for a major mental health condition, was doing that 40 hours a week, plus also still going to school and TAing a class.

So

to bring this back to having a real point,

I spent a lot of time in my car, and the mental health treatment was for an eating disorder, and so Bobo was something I'd newly introduced into my world.

And I.

You didn't know not to put an apple core in it.

And also, I needed to be very consistent about eating snacks for obvious reasons.

And I think I just

didn't clean it out as quickly.

But I would like to say in my own defense that

since that time, a lot of things in my life have stabilized in a lot of important ways, and there's no longer food detritus in my car of any kind.

I'm very happy to hear that.

And I congratulate you on the work that you did and the help that you sought.

Good job.

You would think your friend would feel the same way.

Wonderful.

Rather than try to core shame you on stage.

Claire, this incident is years ago.

Meg has changed, or has she?

Can anyone really change, Judge?

Yes!

Then why is Meg's car still filled with detritus?

Let's go to the evidence!

You'll have to explain for me a little bit of what we're seeing.

Here is exhibit A.

Oh, lordy.

We have, for those listening at home, let the record show that I see two images of one car.

It is a Subaru Impreza

with

a bumper sticker that says, my other car is a Pynchon novel.

Did you get her photo from parking lot 49?

Ah,

I get it.

I think I don't get it.

I studied literary theory at Yale.

We did a lot of this.

But I cannot unpack that text.

I don't get the joke.

What's the Pynchon novel that it's referring to?

Are you asking about the joke about the bumper sticker?

Is that the joke?

Yeah.

The joke, what is the other card?

So, okay.

It is from a comic called Cat and Girl, but it doesn't really matter.

The joke is more.

Are you familiar with the concept of Fenord?

We are going for.

Dr.

Claire, we are on a long journey together.

Fenord, I believe,

is a concept from the Robert Anton Wilson Illuminati trilogy.

Illuminatas.

Let the record show that I'm returning to my bench

to hide.

Okay, so Claire, did you send in this picture?

I did.

What are we seeing?

This is my car.

It looks nice.

Thank you.

Very tidy.

Is this what you're trying to show off here?

Yes.

You've got a big bin in the back.

Got my bag of bags.

The hatchback is open, and we can see your bag of bags,

your neatly attended bags there.

Very, very clean carpeting.

That's a nice, it's a nice Subar room.

Let's see the next exhibit, please.

Okay, what are we seeing here, Claire?

Anal much.

More.

More of Dr.

Claire's beautiful green.

Yes.

More of Dr.

Claire's beautiful green

car.

This is a 2010 car.

This was taken like a week or two ago.

Yeah.

Let me tell you, as an obsessively tidy, only child, Dr.

Claire, you're killing it.

And this car, I like it.

I like it a lot.

Nothing on the floor.

Good.

Next.

Oh, wait, no, no, hold on.

Go back, one.

Is that like some kind of sword in the back of your

just-in-case sword?

It's a brush for snow because I am from a cold place.

Right.

And a small umbrella.

As well, prepared for anything.

What's the cold place?

Santa Clarita or something?

I'm from Pittsburgh.

Right.

Oh, you're a Yins.

Okay.

That's not how you use that.

How would Yins use that?

Yeah.

That's correct.

It's the equivalent of y'all.

Yins.

But Yinser is a person from Pittsburgh.

I've been to Pittsburgh.

Rex Theater.

I've been there.

Dr.

Clare.

Dr.

Clare is rolling all over me, but I still know some things.

I've never been to Pittsburgh, but I rooted for for the Pirates in the 1992 National League Championship Series.

That's on the record.

You can look it up.

Ask Doug Drabeck.

The questions everyone wants to know.

All right.

Exhibit next.

Okay.

Ooh, this must be Meg's car

because it has a

Love Lake Michigan sticker.

This is a Super Outback LL Bean Edition.

Congratulations on upping the self-parody, Auntie, from the pinch and bumper sticker to the LL Bean Edition.

It's an extra New England-y car.

So this is a regular car, but the body is made out of canvas tote bags.

It actually has a bag.

And the tires are melted-down duck boots.

Sorry, Meg, what were you saying?

Apologies.

It actually has a larger engine.

It has a larger engine.

And that's why my ex-husband picked it.

Sorry, that's why your ex-husband picked it, because it has the larger engine.

The larger engine is the LL Bean edition.

Indeed.

I do not understand Subaru branding at all.

Not a lot of people driving through Maine equate LL Bean with muscle car.

Right.

All right, Claire, what are we seeing on the other side of this image?

Because it's just folks.

I'm sorry I couldn't get interior photos, but I took these without Meg's consent in the

court garage.

Okay, I'm not sure I should admit that.

We're seeing a photograph clearly taken through the window surreptitiously while in a distracting conversation with Mag.

Later she showed up at the beach, I believe, and said, I may have just taken pictures of your car.

This looks like the kind of picture that someone would take while pretending to text.

Hang on,

I just need to check my hair while I lean over the rear window of your...

So what are you purporting to show here?

I see a bunch of, I don't see a bag of bags, I see what looked like a sleeping bag and some blankies.

What's going on in here, Claire, that you want me to see?

So what I, though Meg's car may not be filled with rotting fruit anymore, it is still filled with a lot of clutter and garbage and things that I do not enjoy being in the presence of when I'm going on a long trip and it's LA, so everything is a long trip.

Dr.

Claire, this is a, just to clarify, this is a picture through the rear window into the hatchback section.

Yes, that's the trunk.

And that's where Meg makes you ride?

Because that would be horrific.

I gave her a sleeping bag.

But you allow her to ride in a seat, correct?

I do.

I encourage it, actually.

So she doesn't have to deal with any of this back here at all.

No.

Claire, would you describe what kind of clutter is in Meg's car and, frankly, what constitutes clutter in a car?

Anything that you wouldn't normally store in your house, like clothes, garbage, books, you know, the stuff of life that has a storage place in your house generally.

So anything that you would have in your house, you do not put in your car.

Unless you're transporting it somewhere.

Right, to another house.

You don't want house stuff in the car.

Or car stuff in the car.

Yeah.

Okay, Meg, you were going to say something?

At one point, when I was

getting separated, I kept all of my house stuff in my car and have since moved from an apartment that had lots of space for all of my house stuff to a single bedroom that I share with my 23-pound cat.

So some of my house stuff lives in my car.

Yeah.

What is the name of your cat?

Padsworth.

Can I wait?

Can I buzz market him real quick?

I think it's happening.

At Padsworth the Great on Instagram.

He's pretty fantastic.

Oh.

I was worried for a second you were selling your cat.

Nope.

Not a chance.

Next exhibit, please.

And okay, so here is another picture of the, this is now, so here's now a picture of the interior of Meg's car.

There are some plastic bins bundled into the back.

It's a little, it makes me a little anxious, I admit.

Let's see the next exhibit.

Oh, that's it.

Okay.

Meg, it looked like there might have been some things on the passenger seat of your car.

Were there?

Those, that's typically where I keep my grocery bags, because I usually am driving myself.

And I would, can I also speak about the storage bins?

You may speak to the storage bins.

As part of my

whole organization,

I had purchased those from Bed, Bath, and Beyond the day before to try and store more things under my bed and discovered they didn't fit under my bed, which is why they were in my car so that I could return them.

So, Dr.

Claire,

I share with you an absolute revulsion

to seeing those bins in the back of Meg's car.

They trigger something in me that I think you and I share, which is

a nervousness about seeing bins shoved into a thing.

Do you know what I mean?

I absolutely do.

Yeah.

But it's Meg's car, right?

And you appreciate that life goes on for Meg, Meg, and sometimes you've got to put things in the back of your car that don't fit under your bed, right?

Absolutely, but there's an easy solution to our life, which is I just drive everywhere for us, and I never have to think about it, and she doesn't have to think about it either.

Meg, how does it make you feel

when Dr.

Claire says she will not drive in your car because she has an almost involuntary and irrational repulsion to your very ordinary amount of untidiness in there?

I actually try to avoid bringing it up most of the time.

I will sort of ask a generic question like, would you like to drive or would you like me to?

And she almost always says she would like to, and so I kind of let it go because it actually does hurt my feelings a little bit.

And why does it hurt your feelings?

What does it

makes me feel like she doesn't see me as an equal or a grown adult

and that somehow the way that I am or the way that I live my life is inferior to the way that she does just because it's different.

I think Dr.

Clare you can feel the court shifting

rather dramatically to the human story of Meg.

Her very candid and open emotional testimony that she feels condescended to by you.

How do you respond to that accusation?

Is she a liar?

Meg is a wonderful person and friend, and I think one of her great gifts is the ability to be vulnerable with people.

Certainly has shown that to me and is vulnerable in a way that I could never be.

However, I would like to just go back to that.

Are you my therapist?

Right now.

Do you have difficulty being vulnerable?

Yes.

Do you feel a need to control your environment that is more, that is a compulsion?

I would say that I'm very affected by physical space.

And my mood and my stress level are highly correlated to physical space.

And so I try to, in as many ways as possible in my life,

put myself in spaces and create spaces for myself and others that are pleasant, welcoming, and

make people feel good.

And yet, you say this is true, and yet you remain close friends with this emotional train wreck.

This wonderful, emotional, vulnerable,

you know,

somewhat messy person.

Why can't you accept her car as the same way you accept her?

Because I love Meg and I love spending time with her.

And

you know,

sometimes you don't like everything about a person or their family or the people you pick in your life.

And that's okay.

I accept that Meg is like this and has this car, and we live our lives and our spaces very differently, but

I just don't want to add undue stress in my life for no reason.

When you're sitting in Meg's car, and I know it happens very rarely,

but when it's an emergency, you've broken your ankle or whatever, and you're sitting in Meg's car with the bins behind you,

how do you feel?

Do you feel them back there?

I definitely feel tense.

Let the record show that her shoulders hunched up immediately in a defensive posture.

Yeah, and it appeared to be sincere and not performative.

I'm actually thinking about it right now, and I feel like pretty

pretty bad.

Yeah.

I feel you.

Okay.

Who's the better driver real quick?

Me.

Meg, do you want to?

No comment?

No comment.

I'm a much better driver than either one of my parents.

I just wanted to say, Claire, I didn't actually realize it had that impact on your anxiety level.

And knowing that, I would want to make accommodations for you in the future.

That's very nice.

So

I guess I don't have to give a verdict.

Thanks, Jonah, no.

For being there.

I'm just picturing Dr.

Claire on the side of the road with that broken ankle.

And she calls Meg and she's like, Meg, come over, but first, accommodations.

Dump the bins.

I think I've heard enough in order to make my ruling.

Just to clarify, if I were to rule in your favor, Meg, you would rule that I forced Dr.

Clare into your car.

See how that sounds, right?

I would like it to be a consideration.

Like 50% 50-50?

It doesn't have to be 50-50.

Every now and then.

25-75.

Every now and then.

Yeah, okay.

Dr.

Claire, you just want to keep it the way it is, never.

I would like to keep it the way it is in the sense that I can change my mind whenever I want.

Or I would

an only child?

Yeah, no, she's not.

Not she's not, neither of you are.

All right.

No.

But, all right, but still, I'm feeling you.

I think there's right, okay.

I think we know each other.

She is the chief war negotiator for Darth Vader.

Only complete submission.

I would accept if her car is judged to be adequately clean by a third party, perhaps your boyfriend?

J.D.

Power, not so much.

Arguably Judge John Hodgman is the third party?

Is Judge John Hodgman not the third party?

I was thinking that someone that actually knows.

Arguably I'm the thirdest of parties.

I was thinking that someone that actually hangs out with us.

Well, he rides in my car all the time.

And you would never invite us to hang out.

No, sorry.

The boyfriend, the aforementioned boyfriend.

All right.

I will be the judge of this verdict.

I'm going to go into my portable chambers.

I'll be back in a moment with my decision.

Please rise as Judge John Hoshman exits the courtroom.

Meg, do you think that your emotional manipulation of the court will work?

Surprisingly, that was not manipulation.

I just almost cried on stage

because I am an emotional train wreck, as the judge said.

Claire, how are you feeling about your chances given your robotic cruelty to your friend?

It's honestly not that much different from any other day in my life.

We'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about this.

Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

Meg, first of all, I want to apologize for calling you an emotional train wreck.

Oh, no, it's okay.

I'm comfortable with that.

Okay.

You know,

I'm doing all this on the fly, and sometimes I can be a little bit crueler than other ways.

But what I was trying to point out is that for all of the

control that Dr.

Claire tries to exert over her surroundings,

I applaud her

for being friends with someone who has had to, in some ways, remake her control of her world and also is

very vulnerable and very emotional and admirably so.

And that is being emotional is not connected to being a train wreck, and that was wrong.

So I apologize, even though you appreciated the joke of it.

That's I wanted to say that.

Thank you.

I also want to thank you for bringing

this case because

Dr.

Clare is an interesting person.

It's like meeting yourself.

Who I sympathize with very much.

You know, I think most people in the audience here in Los Angeles at the Region Theater saw the photos of Meg's car and probably thought to themselves, that's not so bad.

It's really not.

I've seen much, much messier cars in the world.

And certainly the stuff that was surreptitiously photographed by Dr.

Claire in the back of the back of the of the trunk of it like I've seen I've seen more dumpy blankets and sleeping bags in the back of Subarus than you can imagine like

arguably there's something weirdly austere about the back of Dr.

Claire's Subaru.

It's sort of like a like a weird clean room where she's going to do some

bioengineering or something.

Like, I don't think that's what a Subaru is meant to be.

You know?

But I got to say...

If God had intended there to be an LLB edition of the Impreza, he would have created it.

Yeah.

But I have to say, to me, those bins in the back seat of the car, that really spoke, I think the audience could sense, that really spoke to a strange, it really was an aversion experience for me in ways that I still have difficulty articulating.

And I can imagine exactly how you feel when you're sitting in front and you know those bins are back there, even though they're not touching you, even though you can't see them, you just know they're there.

It's the same way I feel back when they had the 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea ride at Walt Disney World.

I could just stand by that lagoon and go into a deep, cold terror because I knew there were robots underwater.

And that's

not okay.

It's not, I mean, it makes me,

I'm getting goosebumps right now.

Robots underwater, not okay.

Bins askew at the back of the Subaru.

Also, ugh.

I think what was the revelation of this conversation

was not that you've been doing all this life work, Meg, and that, you know, life is messy.

And

your car gets messy from time to time.

And Dr.

Claire

should accept that and ride with you, you know, know, and appreciate that.

But you are an open and emotional person.

Not everyone here.

Some people have to be brought to a fake court

to acknowledge that they have difficulty being vulnerable.

And to reveal to you what could have been revealed in a simple conversation between friends long ago.

I feel terrible when those pins are back there.

It makes me uncomfortable.

I can't explain it.

Because I'm sure that if Dr.

Clare had said to you that,

you would have said, Oh, let me get these bins out of here.

Or let me at least put them in the way back, squared up next to each other.

Under the

cover, under the way they're supposed to be.

They're square.

They should be

so.

As you are going continuing on your journey, Meg,

the court

strongly suggests that you continue cleaning up your car,

not only

as a symbol of your putting together your new life, but also

to accommodate your friend who just feels weird about riding in your car full of bins.

You need to get those bins out of there.

This is going to give you nightmares, isn't it?

Yeah.

But you're not doing it out of some abstract idea of cleanliness.

You're doing it because you want to show your friend that you hear her and you hear the things that she can only tell you through a third party, me, John Hodgman.

So I guess that means...

And I can see that you're going to make that accommodation, right?

Then I'm going to say, every fifth time, 20% of the time, you get to drive, and Claire has to get used to it.

This is called immersion therapy.

And

that's 20% of the time.

Let the record show Claire looks terrified.

20% of the time

so many times.

It's one out of five times.

Yeah, one out of five.

Yeah.

Nothing here, nothing here has made me feel that I've made the wrong decision.

And when you are driving with your friend, talk about your feelings.

This is the sound of a gap.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Our thanks to Robert McGregor for naming this week's case.

Meg and Claire, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

John, have you been eating off your made-in

plates and bowls lately?

Are you talking about my world-famous entree bowls?

Yeah, I'm talking about entree bowls, but you know what?

It's okay to put a more voluminous

appetizer into those bowls.

I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you what.

I've got made-in regular plates.

I've got made-in salad plates.

I've got made-in regular bowls.

And then I got these entree bowls.

And you know, I got the entree bowls.

I specifically asked for them for the holidays, for my wife, who's a whole human being in her own right, because

our children grew up and moved away.

And that means all we do is eat dinner in front of the television.

And if you're sitting on a couch, there's no better way to eat your meal than out of an entree bowl.

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The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Quince.

Now, Jesse Thorne, did you see see me a couple weeks ago on

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Oh, that was a murderous row.

Of course, I watched that.

I love topical humor.

I was on that show, and you know, the first thing that happened when

I got on set was people said to me, What a great outfit.

And you know how I knew they were buying?

Because I was wearing quince.

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Denim, like a denim jacket cut, but it was made out of this soft wide whale corduroy.

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And that's not to mention the 100% record I have getting compliments on my cotton PK overshirts.

That's not to mention that I just got a notification on my phone that the pants that I ordered from Quince are on their way.

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You know why?

Because I like getting compliments.

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Hi, I'm Amber Nash, the voice of Pam Poovy on the groundbreaking FX animated comedy Archer.

Remember Archer?

I sure don't.

That's why I started rephrasing an Archer Rewatch podcast on maximumfun.org.

Join me and a bevy of special guests as we discuss every episode of Archer starting from the very beginning.

Archer executive producer Casey Willis and editor Christian Danley will provide insight and fun and help me remember everything I've forgotten about Archer, which is a lot.

So, join me on rephrasing an Archer Rewatch podcast on maximumfun.org because I can't wait to watch Archer again for the very first time.

The wizards answer eight by eight.

The Cornclave's call to demonstrate their arcane gift, their single spell.

They number 64

until

a conflagration

63

and 62 they soon shall be, as one by one the wizards die,

till one remains to reign on high.

Join us for Taz Royale, an oops all-wizards battle royale season of the adventure zone every other Thursday on maximumfun.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

John, you and I have known each other for what?

Almost 15 years now.

Coming up on 15 years now.

I would say I am your oldest friend.

You're wrong.

Oh!

Whoa, whoa, you have a what?

You have a childhood friend?

I've known our next guest since before

he could talk.

I think I probably could talk at the time.

I probably came out talking, let's be frank.

Talking and bearded.

We were two and the babyhood of Jesse Thorne.

We were two and one

years old when we met at the Church of St.

John the Evangelist in the Mission District of San Francisco 35 years ago.

He's gone on to be

the band Slow Motion Cowboys.

He's based in New Mexico.

They have a new album out called Sunburnt Feather.

Please welcome to the stage my lifelong best friend, Pete Fields

Pete Fields ladies and gentlemen

I'm jumping

Nothing's gonna stop me.

You hurt me so bad, I ain't bleeding no more.

You can still try to twist the dullest knife in the joke.

But I won't win,

I won't win,

I won't win till you hurt me again.

Oh, try to love you, but I don't know how

save someone that puts me out.

Well, well, well,

well.

Well, well

if you

ask me over tonight, I'm coming

and nothing's gonna stop me.

My belly is full of whiskey too.

And all I want will be next to you.

But I won't win,

I won't win, win,

I won't win till you hurt me again.

Well,

try to love you, but I don't know how

to love someone that puts me out

someday I might see see you again and you'll be with someone else

Oh God, it hurts so bad Have to carry on by myself

I can change,

I can change

But I can't forget

the love we made

So I

keep on running

and running

And nothing's gonna stop me

Go to some place that'll never go back

And maybe you will take me home someday Cause I won't win,

I won't win

I won't win till you hurt me again

I won't win till you hurt me again

I keep putting it on the table you keep taking it

and taking it

well.

I won't win,

I won't win,

I won't win.

Thanks, Jesse.

Pete Fields, ladies and gentlemen, slow motion cowboy.

We'll hear some more from Pete later on in the show.

You can find the band online at slowmotion cowboys.bandcamp.com, where you can find their new record, Sunburnt Feather.

Pete Fields, ladies and gentlemen.

Yes.

So, Bailiff Jesse Thorne,

that was a lot of heavy justice.

Yeah.

But I gather there is still some injustice in this world that we need to resolve, and we need to do it quickly.

Yeah.

So we're going to hear three cases, and let's put three minutes on the clock for each case.

Okay.

I'm going to do it in nine minutes.

A nice round number of justice.

Why don't you call the first litigants?

Please welcome to the stage John and Yun Su.

John and Yun Su,

welcome to the court of Judge John Hodgman.

What brings you before my court?

Who brings this case?

I do, Your Honor.

Let the record show, John said, I do, your honor.

And what does the case involve?

Well,

Yun-soo and I do workout classes every week, a few nights, and on night.

Nighttime workout classes.

It's not that funny.

People have busy lives.

There's a person in the front row who works out like when I do, like in the mid-morning,

when all the other freelancers work out at the YMCA in Park Slope, just me and the mayor of New York.

Some people have to work out at night.

What time do you go to your workout?

So the class on Monday night runs from 8 p.m.

until 9 p.m.

Oh my gosh.

How old are you?

I'm 35.

You're too old for this.

All right.

I was defending your life choices.

Now I'm accusing you for them.

So all right, evening workout classes, and what is the dispute?

I will say for the record,

at some of the 6 or 7 p.m.

classes, there are definitely grannies there.

Yeah, that's the 6 to 7 p.m.

classes.

8 to 9 p.m., that's when you're watching streaming television and resting quietly.

The 6 to 7 p.m.

classes are the granny classes.

The 8 to 9 p.m.

classes are like the amyl nitrate poppers classes.

Synthetic marijuana classes.

The issue is that I would like to have dinner after the workout class.

And Yun Su wants to have dinner before the workout class.

I see.

Why do you want to do this, Yun Tzu?

Why do I want to eat before the workout class?

Yeah.

I have two reasons.

Please.

The first one is

we are too tired after the long day and after the intensive workout.

We are too tired to cook, eat, and clean and go sleep.

So mostly we skip cleaning the kitchen after eating.

It's really attempting to just lie on the bed and fall asleep.

So I think that's really filthy.

And then because we are really...

Yeah, I just want to make sure you think that's really filthy?

Filthy.

The kitchen?

Yeah.

Filthy.

Yeah, right.

No, that's the word.

That's a good choice.

Okay.

Of words.

Evocative.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay, and reason two?

The reason two is...

Reason one was plenty, by the way.

Reason one ended strong on filthy.

Yeah, this better have like corpulent in it or something like that.

Dutrescent.

I think it's not good to eat late at night.

For a while.

You say that it's not good to eat late at night, but here's my question.

Do you think it's okay to vomit during your workout class?

What kind of workout is it?

The Monday night workout is total body conditioning, and so there is some jumping around and rolling around on the floor, all sorts of cool things.

I just, when you said total body conditioning, I just figured it was lotions.

I was like, working out sounds great.

Why haven't I been doing this?

There's nothing I like more than to come home, eat a hoagie,

go to the gym, and rub myself in lotion while rolling on the floor.

And how many times a week are you doing this again?

That one is just once per week.

Yeah, but overall.

We go to three or four classes, and one is in the morning on the weekend.

How many nights are you going to the gym?

Why are you dancer sizing around this?

How many nights out of the week do you go to the gym?

Three per week.

Three per week.

Okay, three per week.

And

do you ever feel sick if you eat before going to the gym?

A little bit.

Let me give you a hint.

If you'd like to win, you should be saying yes a lot.

So when we have dinner before the class, it does get uncomfortable in the middle of the class, and it's also distracting because

like half of my attention is on the activity we're supposed to be doing and the other half is like trying to make sure that no one hears my fart.

Now you see is that not just

the human condition?

Yeah.

Yun Tzu, unfortunately, John just took the lead.

in the best last word of a sentence competition.

I actually have a a counter-argument against that.

You can't have a counter-argument against someone's farts.

Make your argument.

This is supposed to be swift justice.

Go ahead.

I'll allow it.

Add an extra 30 seconds for the anti-fart argument.

So added.

I know John has easily upset stomach, and I really do care of him.

And that's why.

Doesn't sound like it.

Sounds like you want to make him eat and fart.

I mean, that's why we should eat real healthy food before workout, but a small amount.

What do you think?

Because he usually snacks a lot before the workout because he gets hungry anyways after work.

Yeah.

What do you propose for having dinner before

the workout?

Whatever, but just a small amount.

Small amounts.

And if we get hungry later again, then we can get a huge amount of time.

And when you get home from the gym, do you guys just, are you so hungry because you've just been working out, you just eat all this food and shove it in your mouth and then fall asleep filthily?

I mean, that's what I would do.

It's like you just told me who I am.

Look, the court very rarely makes split decisions,

but everybody's bodies are their own.

You can't argue against someone else's parts or bodily comfort.

Particularly, you know, whatever your workout goal is, you want to be able to feel as comfortable as possible.

And if eating a meal before working out makes John feel sick, then he is, A, a human being.

And B,

that is a perfectly valid reason to not do that.

I appreciate your togetherness as a couple.

But on those,

when you are going to the gym at nighttime, you are sacrificing the time normal humans sit down and eat food and digest it.

Eating late at night is not terrific for your body.

Eating right before a workout is not terrific for your workout.

All of this is compromised.

So as long as you guys are going to be going to the gym three nights a week, you have to do what you feel comfortable for yourself.

And that means sacrifice your togetherness.

Yun Su, that means you eat a small, healthy meal before going to the gym.

Maybe three ounces of beans and three ounces of cabbage.

Yeah, right.

And John, that means have your snacks or whatever, but go to the gym on whatever version of an empty stomach or half-full stomach, whatever stomach fullness you feel is right for you.

And then when you get home from the gym, just get your head right in that refrigerator and just shove food into your mouth and fall asleep in the produce tray.

That is my ruling.

Thank you, John and Yoon Tzu.

Please welcome Brittany and Rob.

Brittany and Rob, ladies and gentlemen.

Brittany and Rob, thank you for coming here.

Who brings this case to the court of Judge John Hodgman?

It me.

Ah, Brittany.

You met?

It me.

Sorry, you met?

Brittany, what is the dispute?

Well, I presented to my friend Rob that he skated past my half birthday, that I had like dropped a few hands just being like, gonna hang out for my half birthday, and gonna bake a cake for my half birthday, half of a birthday cake.

Maybe he couldn't understand what you were saying.

Because I was being crazy.

He's used to it.

He's used to it.

Because you were talking like a drunk cartoon game.

So the verdict, we've already got it.

So,

and the thing is, I said, oh, you skated past my half birthday.

And he was so incredulous.

It's not that he missed my half birthday.

It's that he really feels that it's excessive that I even would celebrate a half birthday.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

What is your relationship?

Best Buds.

Best Buds.

Yeah.

And Rob, full disclosure, you are a member of the Maximum Fum family, are you not?

I am.

Explain your role within the Maximum Fum family.

I am producer editor for Friendly Fire as well as The Greatest Discovery and I help every Uxbridge Shimoda project live.

Thank you.

Thank you for your service.

Did you skate past Britney's half B-Day?

Skating is a fluid phrase.

I feel like I...

Did you sleep on it?

I did not celebrate it.

Did you Instagram slang on it?

I

just kind of ignored it.

Because why?

Because I thought that Brittany celebrates a lot of things.

And I think I'm always there to add something positive when it's brought to me.

What are some of the other things she celebrates?

Oh.

Well,

for example,

I believe her and her partner celebrate their

trip to Ikea?

No, no, no, no, no.

Oh, are you talking about trip to Ikeismus?

Yes.

Thank you.

As in

a fruitful trip to Ikeasmus to you, Robert.

It is a relationship.

Do you celebrate trip to Ikeismus over 12 days or 15 days?

Because

the Eastern tradition is different.

And I need to know how many meatballs to order.

Yeah.

What is your trip to IKEA celebration?

That's just something he's pulling out of his back pocket because he actually thought that was really cute when I told him about it originally.

I also want to know if it's cute.

Tell me what it is.

I'll give it to you.

I personally, within my relationship, I don't require anybody else to be a part of it.

We jokingly celebrate the first time we ever went to IKEA because we survived that.

It wasn't like...

Oh,

it's a

anniversary type trip.

Yes, it was like, oh, the first time we went to IKEA, we didn't destroy our relationship.

And how do you celebrate?

What do you do to our campaign?

Oh, we're just like, it's IKEA anniversary.

You know, we eat some meatballs.

You guys celebrate each other in drunk cartoon character voices.

Yep.

And how did you know?

Well, I think that's adorable.

Thank you.

You submitted some evidence?

I sure did.

Let's see the evidence, if you please.

Let the record show and enter it into the Judge John Hodgman Instagram account.

This seems to be one half of a birthday cake,

including one half of a candle.

May I guess?

Do I guess correctly, Brittany, that this is a half birthday cake?

It sure is.

Who made this half birthday cake for you?

Well, I actually made it.

That's right.

Yeah, I made it for my boyfriend.

His birthday is actually

his half birthday is the day after Christmas.

Yeah, so I see.

So I really.

And this is the sort of thing that you, this is the sort of thing you want Rob to go along with.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

You want him to make you a half birthday cake?

I never expected him to celebrate my half birthday, but to be fair,

when I confronted him, he had just asked me how my dog was doing.

So I just thought.

The story is going in an interesting direction.

But I'm just like, if we have a very limited amount of time.

I'm just just like, she forgot to go.

How is your dog doing?

He's great.

Good.

So,

what would you have me order if I were to find you your favorite Britney?

Oh, that it's acceptable for people.

I say to all who celebrate.

I don't require everyone to celebrate it.

Just like.

It's not a government holiday.

Thank you.

You want banks will remain open.

You want Rob to not merely acknowledge but celebrate your happ birthday?

No, to not look disgusted when I suggested that I might celebrate it.

Rob.

Excuse me.

Mob justice is later.

Let me tell you this, Rob.

Half birthdays are not a thing.

We know this.

We understand.

It's not a thing.

I mean, it's a thing.

It's a thing for

children.

And that's it.

It's odd.

I agree with you.

But

Brittany is a special person.

Those of you listening cannot see what I see, which is that

Brittany, Rob looks a little dejected.

He's got some untrimmed facial hair.

He's got a friendly fire t-shirt on.

He's wearing a t-shirt of his own thing, folks.

And

he's every inch the picture of a podcast producer.

No offense, Jennifer Varmer.

Very glamorous, Jennifer Varmer.

And maybe it's just where he's seated on stage, but it looks like he's sitting in perpetual shadow and sadness, whereas Brittany is literally glowing at this moment.

While all reasonable people agree that half birthdays are not a thing, Brittany is living a happier life than you.

And while I did not expect making this order, I think you need to send her a half birthday cupcake every year from now on.

Brittany and Rob, please welcome to the stage Michelle and Matt.

Wait, Brittany, hang on a second.

Can we go back?

What is this that just happened?

Let the record show dogs are on screen.

This guy goes,

look at this scruffer.

That's my dog.

And that's my dog, Clive.

And how's this dog wins?

And how are your dogs doing?

Great.

Clive's living in Park Slope and loving every minute of it.

That's right.

Park Slope life.

All right.

Thank you very much.

Final Swift Justice.

Michelle and Matt.

Michelle and Matt, welcome to the court of Judge John Hodgman.

Oh, yes, I remember this case.

Should I be worried about this?

Who brings this case before the court?

I do.

Michelle, what is your dispute with Matt?

My partner, Matt, he will not allow me to get a Roomba for the house.

And I have wanted one for three to four years.

Sure.

Which means I really want one.

At your age, that's a long time.

I'm almost 30.

My statement stands.

But that is a long time to want a Roomba.

Quick question.

How much is Roomba paying you to be here tonight?

Yeah, if they're not a sponsor of this podcast, why am I advertising for them?

Okay, I should restate that as I would like to buy any brand of floor cleaning slash mopping robot.

How about D-bot, an off-brand version of Roomba?

As long as the reviews are good.

Okay.

Yes.

Well, we'll see.

Why do you want one so bad?

Because they are robots in your house.

Very dangerous situation.

Thank you, Judge.

Well,

because I really love to have a very nice clean floor.

Yeah.

I feel really grossed out when our floor is all dirty, has like cat paw prints on it and stuff.

I was going to ask you, are there cats involved that can be scared and humiliated by the Roombas?

There are, Judge.

Yes, well, that's a mark in your favor, Michelle.

And have you seen the videos of the cats riding the Roombas?

They do that too.

Oh, cats riding Roombas?

Yes.

That's definitely not our cat.

Matt, all of this sounds delightful.

Well, you like walking around on kitty litter?

You like walking around on dust?

Or do you just are scared of robots?

What's going on?

Michelle has told me several times as a joke that she would give the Roomba a name

or that she would like to make a special place for the Roomba or even like tape a little face to it.

And

basically give it a name.

Yes.

She said that she wants to basically

treat it like another roommate.

And that's something that I feel very uncomfortable about.

I don't like to have robots in my house.

I especially don't want to treat them as people

another pet.

You're repeating these arguments as though this might sway me in your favor.

That Michelle has not revealed to me that she wants to name the robot.

What are you going to name this robot when you get it?

Beepie.

Could you say BB as in BB8 or Beepy as in beep beep?

The second one.

Yes.

Oh,

my gal fingers twitching.

However,

I don't know if these things really work.

Now look, we get no money from Roomba.

And we also don't get any money from Utz

brand snacks.

And we don't get any money from Deepbot.

But I happen to have some Utz brand snacks and a Deepbot here.

Let's see if this thing works.

D-Bot,

proud sponsor of Judge John Hodgman.

Does this make you uncomfortable, Matt?

A little bit.

Yes, yes, yes.

It's a good show.

It's flinching.

He's flinching.

Look at its little feeler.

Look at its little feelers, says Michelle.

I don't want it to touch me.

It's not going to touch you.

I just, will you hold the D-bot for a second?

No.

There's nothing to be afraid of.

Now, we'll see how effective this is.

Let the records show, I have dumped a bag of barbecue flavor Utz Ripples chips, and I'm crushing them up

to Roomba-sized pieces with my saucony brand Jazz Sneakers,

which I would also welcome as a sponsor of Judge John Hodgman.

And as this is happening, for some reason, my pants are falling down again.

All right.

I feel like this is super obvious art, like the time on college tour when I visited Hampshire and somebody did a performance where they peed on a flag.

I was like, yeah, I get it.

Despite your derision, it's still happening.

Or is it?

Oh, it beeped.

It beeped.

Good old beep.

And now it is working.

He's so hungry.

Let the record show that D-Bot is pushing the chips around.

Come back over this.

No, go over this way.

Get the chips.

Get the chips, dummy.

There we we go.

Let the record also reflect that this is a borrowed D-bot.

Let the record show D-Bot almost stage dived.

No, this way.

The D-bot was just like, if Master doesn't love me.

All right, D-Bot's making its way to the back of the stage with Stage Fright.

Round of applause for D-Bot.

You get the Roomba!

That's Swift Justice.

Michelle and Matt, folks.

Michelle and Matt.

You and Beepie will have a wonderful life.

I couldn't.

Come on, Beepie.

That's the greatest name for a robot I've ever heard in my life.

I wouldn't even mind if that robot were underwater.

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome back to the stage one more time Pete Fields, Slow Motion Cowboys.

Pete Fields.

say thanks to the judge and Jesse, one of my oldest friends in the world.

I love those guys.

Thanks, Jesse, for having me.

Found myself a place

where I can rest in peace

Away from the worries that have haunted me

Love you, and I must move on, I hope you understand

Maybe we'll meet again

in the promise

Flowers, they never will

and the people look their bed

to walk carpet, no dust on the cabinet

People always friendly But no one ever pries And it smells like fresh roses cut before their prime

I'm off to new greener pastures I hope you move on to

Can't go on living

this life I shared with you

Said we'd always have the past, but the future came too soon

I'm off

to new greener pastures in my finest suit

Soft music plays as the people come and go

Some far too young, but most just tired and old.

Saw you want

the tears in your eyes.

I've been seeing you

again,

but I'm not surprised.

I'm off to new greener pastures.

I hope you move on too.

And go on living

this life I shared with you.

You say we'd always have the past, but the future came too soon.

I'm off to new greener pastures, but I'll always

love you.

Our thanks to all of the litigants who shared their disputes with us.

We also want to thank Pete Fields for joining us on stage.

You can find his music at slowmotioncowboys.bandcamp.com.

His latest album is Sunburnt Feather.

It's very beautiful.

It's available on Arkham Records.

This episode was recorded by Dave McKeever and produced by Jennifer Marmor.

Follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

We're on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman and make sure to hashtag your judgejohodgman tweets hashtag jjho.

Plus, check out the maximum fun subreddit to discuss the episode.

Submit your cases at maximumfun.org slash jjho or email hodgman himself hodgman at maximumfun.org.

Hey, that's me.

This is professional radio voice, John Hodgman.

We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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