Live From San Francisco Sketchfest 2019

Hey, everybody, it's your judge, John Hodgman, here to tell you that this week's episode was recorded live at the historic Castro Theater as part of San Francisco Sketch Fest.

Ineke Fitzclark from Max Fund's own Minority Corner podcast joins us on stage, as well as our musical guest, the great Martin Luther McCoy.

And wow, this episode is a wild ride.

So, if you're driving, I trust you're already buckled up.

But if you're not driving, go into your car and buckle up and join us on stage now at the Castro Theater.

San Francisco, you've come to us desperate for justice, and we're here at the Castro Theater to deliver it.

Let's bring out our first set of litigants.

Please welcome to the stage Raya and Somali.

Tonight's case, bleach of contract.

Raya brings the case against her friend Somali.

Somali thinks Raya should dye her hair.

Raya is opposed.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference.

Then I was in Saint-Tropez at a cafe, and there was another woman with long white hair, very chic.

She was very sexy.

I said, okay, you're the third woman I've noticed who has white hair.

So tell me, does it take courage to get your hair?

And she said, no, it takes curiosity.

Well, I needed mail agreement, you know, and so I called my brother, who was 10 years older than me, and he said, at last, you accept your gray hair.

Accept what?

You accept your own beauty, he said.

I like white hair.

And I said, I thought men hate white hair.

And he said, no, men hate women who hate themselves.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear them in.

Raya and Somali, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God or whatever?

I do.

Or whatever.

Take this seriously, please.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that what appears to be hair on his head is actually an optical illusion?

I do.

I do.

Judge Hodgman.

You may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors.

Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I rose up from my chambers?

Raya, why don't you go first?

My barista from yesterday.

Your barista from yesterday.

We've been following you.

Drone surveillance has worked out.

All right.

I'll write that in the guest book.

Oh, you seem really prepared.

Let the record show for those listening along at home that Somali has a book of a hundred guesses.

I will, a notebook of some kind.

She's worked out a few of them.

I'll admit them all.

Go ahead.

John, that's the bestseller.

A hundred things to guess on Judge John Hodgman Before You Die.

Well, my first guest is John Frida, the British celebrity hairstylist.

Okay, I'll put that one in.

John Frida, next guest.

My next guess is

a line from the popular musical hairspray.

A line

from the popular, well, okay, hairspray.

I'll just write that down.

And my third guess, I only had three, I didn't get to the hundred.

My third one is a line from the book Mr.

Penumbra's 24-hour bookstore by Robin Sloan.

By Robin Sloan, a very good book.

Yes, that's a good guess.

That's a total of one, two, three, four guesses.

All guesses are wrong.

Why did you, but I'm very curious to know why you made those guesses.

I mean, the John Frida one, I can understand, hairspray.

Just this afternoon, I was having a little lunch with my friend Jonathan Colton.

I said, I do not have a cultural reference for this afternoon.

He said, hairspray.

I said, no way.

Someone's going to guess it.

That's why it's the Judge John Hodgman podcast, not the Judge Jonathan Colton podcast.

That's why it was my first one, but then I threw it out.

But since you said I could use multiple, I did.

And why, but why

Mr.

Penumbra?

Because I recently finished it, it and when I finished it, I read the back flap and I saw that you had given it accolades, so I figured I would mention the fact that you had reviewed it and given it accolade.

Just a shot in the dark.

A shot in the dark, exactly.

No, no, all guesses are wrong.

That quote is actually from Sophie Fontanelle, who is a French journalist and Instagrammer who for the past couple of years,

now she's fully gray, but she decided to go gray and wrote about it and documented her going gray on Instagram.

And it inspired a lot of people to reveal

the natural color of their hair as they got older.

And Raya, for those of you who are listening at home, you cannot see, Raya has

beautiful hair that is a mix of gray and brunette.

It is untreated at this time.

I mean, I don't mean to.

Basically, what's going to happen.

How uncomfortable can we make, John?

The main thing is,

Sumala, you want Raya to dye her hair.

Raya, you don't want to.

And you did the right thing by coming to a straight white man

to decide what beauty is for you.

So I'm going to listen to both sides, and then I'm going to decide how you can look so that you have worth in my eyes.

How does that sound?

Well, I figure that's historically accurate.

Good idea.

Yeah, right.

This is how it was always done, folks.

If I may, judge.

Yes.

Raya brought me here, so I really had no decision in this.

Ah, I see.

So, Raya, you bring this case before me for justice.

What is the justice that you seek?

I seek that Somali stop insisting that I dye my hair and accept that it is nice and beautiful.

And from now on, when she slips up, she has to do an about face and say something nice about it.

All right.

You guys, first of all, are you friends?

Yes, yes.

Yes, yes, and I have physical proof of our friendship.

What is the physical proof of your friendship?

She and I have matching tattoos.

Oh.

Are they in a place where you could share them on

stage or just a place where you could share them on a podcast?

On stage.

On stage.

Well, let's get to it, please.

Okay, where ankles are being revealed.

I think, and I have to come around here.

There's also a third person who has this tattoo as well.

He's also a friend of ours.

And in the audience.

He was yelling?

Yes.

It would be awesome if it was just like Spider-Man flipping the bird or something.

What is your name, Yeller?

Robena?

John, Ribena.

Ribena.

Don't do that again.

Also, Judge, I'm married to him, so I can tell him what to do.

Oh.

Well, so can I.

The three of you share a tattoo, and I caught a glimpse of it upon your ankles, and it looked like bubble tea.

Is that what it was?

Yes.

And so why do the three of you...

What is your...

What is your husband's name?

Raphael.

Raphael.

Does he also have one on his ankle?

Yes.

So why are you the three bubble tea musketeers?

How did this happen?

So we met when I first moved to California.

What part of Canada did you move from?

What Raphael calls southern Canada.

I moved here.

There is only southern Canada.

Minnesota and Wisconsin.

There's southern Canada and then the wastelands.

I moved here from Wisconsin and Minnesota where I grew up.

Oh, okay.

Oh, oh, I see.

Great.

Because I thought I heard a little

a boot face in there.

All right.

So you moved to California and you met these guys

who were much more worldly and well-traveled than I am.

Uh-oh.

And started introducing me to strange new things.

And one of the first things Somali did was take me to a Boba Tea place.

I'd never had.

How did you meet?

We met in college.

Oh, okay.

You don't want to go all the way up with that?

Oh, sorry.

is there more of that?

We bonded over a tattoo to begin with.

Oh.

A tattoo that you do not have?

No, we both had tattoos when we met, and she had had a tattoo for a while, and I had just gotten my tattoo, and hers is in a visible place.

And I felt the need to show her my tattoo, which is not in a very visible place.

So she pulled me aside to a bathroom and ripped down her pants and said, Welcome to California.

I'm so glad we bought it to listen to this podcast.

What were the other tattoos?

Well, one was

Ibena.

Mine's a sea turtle.

Mine is a heart with a star inside it.

And these are the tattoos you had before the bubble tea?

Yes.

Yes.

Well, your taste is improving.

You're growing as people.

I like that.

There's more tattoos before the bubble tea as well.

Okay, well,

do you want to just go through?

Do you have them listed in your notebook?

I do, actually.

Yeah, please.

I have four total.

Give me the inventory.

All right, I have bubble tea.

I have the bubble tea.

I know about the heart, the swoopy heart with a star inside.

The swoopy heart with a star inside.

And I have a large elephant on my back.

And

I have an Indonesian batik motif.

It's a design from Indonesia.

Very nice.

And do you expect you might get more tattoos in the future?

Very likely.

Like perhaps one of Judge Sean Hodgman.

We'll see how tonight goes.

Yeah.

It may be a punishment, you understand it?

I understand.

I think that probably would be a punishment.

I understand.

Okay.

So, how long would you say you guys have been friends for?

03.

Yeah, 2003.

Okay.

Somebody do the math.

The bubble tea era.

Right.

The bubble tea era, yes.

And when did you start going gray, Ryan?

Oh, well before I met Somali.

I started going gray when I was probably 14 or 15.

Right, okay.

And did you dye your hair to hide the gray for a period of time?

Many, many years.

Yeah.

So when did you decide to

start stopping that?

Sorry.

Probably about four years ago, we figured out.

I just got sick of it.

Yeah.

Well, and it looks great.

Thank you.

I mean,

yes.

I'm going to say this.

I mean, you said that Somalia was more worldly than you when you came here from Wisconsin.

You look like a sophisticated world traveler.

You look extremely worldly and cosmopolitan compared to your friend over here with the.

I hide the redneck well.

And so, Somali, why are you upset that she is letting her hair be gray and trying to pressure her and make all these comments to get her to dye it again?

I should be clear, I'm not upset per se.

I've made passing comments here and there, maybe a little more frequently sometimes than other times.

But at the end of the day, I agree with you.

She looks gorgeous right now.

She's absolutely a beautiful, stunning woman.

I also know she looks absolutely smoking hot when she does dye her hair.

I've seen her when she's dyed her hair, and it looks even more gorgeous.

So

I do want that for her.

I feel that

can be an empowerment.

She's a very empowered woman, and I feel that can be even more empowering when she does that.

I also feel she does a lot for a lot of people, her friends, her family, her coworkers, and I would love for her to do more for herself.

And one way to do that is through self-care.

So that's another reason.

And the third reason.

I mean, self-care like putting a lot of chemicals in your hair

that you don't want to put there?

Well, for the benefit of others.

She puts chemicals on her face as well.

And, you know, that happens.

The lipstick, the blush, all that.

And then also.

You know that it's her body.

Yes,

absolutely, 100%.

This is 100% her decision.

Yeah.

All right.

And the other thing is that.

It's actually now 100% John's decision.

This is true.

This is true.

Well, no, because that's not what's at stake here.

You want me to order Somali to stop making comments.

Because why?

How does it make you feel when she says...

What kind of comments does she make, first of all?

Like, what will she say?

I mean, it's enjoying bubble tea or

it's much along the lines of what she was just talking about.

That I was so beautiful when I had my nice long dark hair.

And she misses that.

Yeah, let me just understand.

She's not a parent of yours, is she?

No.

She's not your mom.

No, but my mom's on her side.

Well,

look, it's often a mom's or dad's or parents' prerogative to make occasional or frequent or hourly undermining remarks

that make you question yourself in your decisions because they have difficulty letting go of the total control they had of you originally.

John, you know,

to allow you to be a whole human being is to accept that they are going to eventually die and become dust.

John, you know, my mom is here, right?

Am I wrong, Jessie's mom?

So how does it make you feel when Somali makes these comments?

It just throws me off because it's taken me a little while to get used to the grays and just kind of become comfortable in my own skin, which is something I'm always trying to do, and I think that's true for a lot of people.

So yeah, it's just.

Was it an emotional thing for you to go gray or to reveal the gray that was already there?

Did you feel

self-conscious at first?

What was your journey like?

Definitely.

There was a lot of, do I actually want to do this?

And it took me a while.

I'd stop dyeing it for a month, and then there'd be an inch of gray, and it'd go back to dyeing, and then stop dying it for six months, and then dye it again.

So it was a process.

Right, because you were taking some step backward.

You were like second-guessing, maybe

dye it again.

So overall, so do I notice that there's some color

at the ends now?

Is that the same thing?

So the gray is mostly just on top?

So, what you're seeing at the ends is where it hasn't gone gray.

Okay.

So, this is all natural.

This is all natural.

And how long did it take you to get there?

Oh,

well, I started by cutting all of it off.

Then I grew up.

That's the way to do it, I suppose.

Yeah, it took about two years.

All right.

And Sumali, you want to undo all of this emotional and

all this patience and emotional work?

A hundred percent.

Why is it so important to you?

Can you make a case for why this is not good for your friend?

Let the record show for those listening at home.

But Sumali just winked in an ambiguous way at Raya.

I can't make a good case for her to not do anything she doesn't want to do.

So if she really wants to stick with the gray, sure, go for it.

And if that's, if she's happy.

Are you sure?

Because there's a reason why we're here.

Again, the reason we're here is that.

I mean, sure.

Does Raya have difficulty expressing her emotions to you?

Does she say, did she, when she said, it was hard for me to grow it out, it took some time for me to accept myself, and it was a lot of work, and I'm glad where I am now.

Is she able to say that to you?

Has she said it to you before?

She hasn't said it to me before, but I believe it based on other life events we've gone on.

I'm glad your default was.

Should I even believe her?

No, no, no, no.

No, no, no.

I completely believe her.

Is that true, Raya, that you haven't expressed those feelings to...

I don't think I've been that clear before.

No?

Why not?

Because it could have ended.

This all could have ended a long time ago.

I mean, I presume that you are not friends with Somali because she is a monster who doesn't listen to you and express your emotions.

There's so why have do you have difficulty expressing those emotions to her?

Well, and I think I'm still growing into the gray.

Like, there's still a small part of me that's like, oh, but Samoa could do this really cool thing with my hair.

Wait a minute.

You want to do this to her hair?

Yes, sir.

Go on.

I didn't realize that she had robbed you from the opportunity to play with a doll.

Well, a willing.

A willing participant.

And when she has dyed her own hair in the past and it's gone awry, she's come to me to fix it.

So she knows I'm capable of helping maintain and take care of her hair.

I do my own hair.

Let the record show you have really cool hair, too.

Thank you.

It is many colored.

It is.

How would you describe the colors that you have put in?

Apparently the box tells me that it's a deep burgundy color, and I've added a streak of sort of a shock of blue.

A shock of blue.

A shock of blue to it.

Burgundy and blue.

I agree with the box that my eyes confirm that.

But you're not a hair care professional.

No, sir.

You're just an amateur.

I'm very much a hobbyist.

But I've been doing that for nigh on 20 years.

No, no, the evidence is right before me.

You're good at it.

Yeah, well done.

So she's good at it.

Yes.

This going gray, this journey of self-discovery is not just a cover story for stay the hell away from my hair.

Correct.

All right.

Somalia, you submitted some evidence.

And we have some photographic evidence that

you are going to help me describe.

Let's see the first piece.

So

what we're seeing here in the Castro Theater in San Francisco at San Francisco Sketch Fest is a woman running her fingers through very

long dark hair with gray highlights, it looks at the bottom, and then some weird buzz marketing.

There's some Twitter account up there.

But I don't know, maybe that's your, is that your business or something?

No, no, no, no, I have no business.

I pulled some sample images from a popular social media website.

Okay.

And so this,

you can kind of see it maybe under different light, but it's sort of a deep purple at the top, and then it sort of fades out towards the bottom.

This is a look that you would like to try out on

Raya for your own amusement?

One potential color.

I think, honestly, she would do well with, let's say, a non-natural color.

She can make that really work.

She has the personality and the attitude to pull off some

shocking kind of color.

Okay.

We know she's a bad dude with a rude dude.

Let's look at the next

piece of evidence.

Okay, here's this idea.

Again, another picture of a woman running her fingers through the back of her hair.

This also came from a popular social media website.

Correct.

It seems to be a very specific

thing.

It's one that you use if you want to pin things on boards.

Oh, okay, gotcha.

And that sort of thing.

But this picture.

You got it now.

I had assumed LinkedIn.

This particular one is known as an oil slick.

So the idea is it's sort of a black background with highlighted rainbowy colors coming through, as you would see in an oil slick.

Yeah, it looks pretty cool.

What do you think of that, Raya?

I actually think that's beautiful.

I think I actually told you about that.

Yeah, she introduced me to the idea of oil slick.

But a lot of maintenance, which I'm not into.

Right, okay.

So you don't want that on your head?

No.

I want to just be able to comb my hair and go.

All right, next one.

Okay, this is a different one.

Now the woman is

staring at me.

Hello, lady.

I think that's the look I give Somali after she's asked me three times in a row.

So this one is similar to the deep burgundy I have currently.

This one, I think the woman probably started with a lighter colored hair, maybe a white or a gray, and achieved it achieved this sort of purpley burgundy as opposed to myself where I started with black hair so I have more of a red burgundy I see

okay and next is there more

okay now this is another person looking at me

another hair color that you would like to try on your living dollariah

so this one and the previous one are solid colors easy to do the the previous two the first two were ones that would require a lot of upkeeping care but this this one, this current sort of deep red one, and the previous purpley burgundy one are ones that could be an easy, you know, color from a box and go kind of thing.

Okay, how many more looks do we have?

I believe that's it.

There might be some images of Raya previously.

Oh, yeah.

Okay, so this is you and Raya from a previous life.

Yeah.

This was Raya's wedding, and this is when she had very dark chestnut brown hair.

And, you know, happy wedding.

Thank you.

You both look like you're having a great time.

And do you miss that look, that dark chestnut hair?

I miss the look.

I don't miss the work I had to put into it.

Right.

Now that's something that you brought up, which is maintenance.

Yes.

I, as Jesse Thorne may have mentioned, my hair is nothing.

It is basically painted on Charlie Brown hair.

It is the thinnest and limpest strands of hair ever devised by evolution.

My hair care regimen is a pea-sized amount of Johnson's baby shampoo that I then style with a wisp of a light breeze.

I am not used to the regimen of taking care of real hair, never mind hair that has been processed and colored.

You mentioned that with your hair, your natural hair, you can just comb through and go, but with the oil-slick hair, it's not real oil, is it?

Is that why it's hard to comb?

No,

it's not real oil.

No, but it's harder to get a comb through.

Is that what's going on?

No, it's just constantly.

You have to do it.

I don't know.

That's why I'm asking.

I didn't think it was oil.

Raya's like, that's an oil-slick hair style, but I just want to be able to put a comb through and go.

And I'm like, well, maybe there's someone I don't know about this.

I'm able to admit that there's stuff that I don't know about.

Not much.

But the maintenance then is more keeping the color intact rather than how it is.

Keeping the color intact.

And it also damages your hair.

I mean, you're putting tons of chemicals into it.

Right.

So there's, you know, conditioner and...

An expense.

An expense.

And, Somali, are you going to help bear the expense of

Raya's ongoing hair color regimen

if I were to help you succeed in bullying her?

I would argue, based on my trips to Raya's bathroom, she already uses fancier shampoo than myself.

So if she sees it.

Yeah, because that's actually called self-care.

I'm not going to allow you to sit there and shampoo shame Raya.

I would not help with the ongoing expense.

I could help with the startup.

You know, you could have lied.

I appreciate your honoring your oath and telling the truth, but you could have made your whole case a lot more sympathetic if you had said, yes, I will help.

I could, but I wouldn't.

I am the one who wants this.

She doesn't, therefore, I will donate the hair dye so that I can play with my friend's hair.

Right, but there's a third person who would remind me constantly if I didn't

keep up my end of the bargain.

Who's that?

Raphael.

Raphael?

Obviously, Raya should be able to have her hair the way she wants.

order, if I were to rule in your favor, this would be basically a gag order on Somali.

She can't make comments anymore, is that correct?

Yes, and if she slips up, which that's fine, everybody slips up, just turn around and say, actually, it's really cute.

And if I were to order in Raya's favor, how would that make you feel

if there was truly like a gag order on this topic?

Truly a gag order?

I could probably honor it.

And if I did slip up, I would say something nice.

I have no problem giving her compliments.

Mark of a true friend.

Your Honor, may I add something to that?

Please.

In our house, we have a tradition of wearing sashes, which Somali does not appreciate.

So if she slips up, I would say she also has to wear a sash for the rest of the evening.

In your house, help me to understand this.

May I add, her home is referred to as the Goat Manor.

The what?

The Goat Manor.

Until very recently, you could look it up on social media, but they took it down.

I don't understand any of it.

I don't understand what's happening.

Let's.

Goat?

G-O-A-T?

Correct.

Okay.

Manor.

I know what a manor is.

Why is it referred to as the Goat Manor?

Does L.L.

Cooljay live there?

Not currently.

It is, long story short.

College roommates were obsessed with goats at our wedding.

We got blessed by Billy T.

Goat in a very long speech, and our house was named Goat Manor.

But you don't own goats.

Not yet.

Not yet.

Eventually we're going to make a commune and there will be a small herd of goats with corgis to herd them around.

This is very exciting.

This is our restaurant.

I'm not going to lie, that is dope.

Where do the sashes fit in?

Are you forming a new society?

Kind of.

By sash, are you talking about like a beauty pageant sash or like a like a

European prince sash?

So imagine a beauty pageant sash, but with like cephalopods or fish eyes or the end of the world scenarios or something printed on it.

I can imagine that.

Why didn't you bring this up the minute you got here?

We like to save the good stuff.

I'm starting to feel like we wasted a lot of time on Boba.

How many sashes do you own, Raya?

20-ish?

Well, we have a lot of people over, and we need sashes for everybody.

To be in your house, a person has to wear a sash?

Frequently.

There's also robes.

Robes?

For people who are uncomfortable with sashes.

But I can't imagine why anyone would be uncomfortable with a sash unless that's all they're allowed to wear in dress.

No, no, overclothes.

No, overclothes.

Somali,

why not wear a sash?

That's dope.

Because the sashes were made by her mother-in-law for her spouse when he was in high school because he wore sashes to school.

And I just feel uncomfortable.

Quick question.

Are you still married?

Yes.

Happily married?

Yes.

Your spouse's name is?

Dieter.

Dieter?

I am so excited.

You guys can come over for dinner.

Somewhere in this great nation in the late 1990s or so,

there was a heterosexual male teenager fancier than me.

So I refuse to wear the sashes because I feel like that is something from Dieter's childhood that he should hold on to and be comfortable with, and I don't want to partake in.

And the robes are for people who aren't comfortable in the sashes?

Do they also have end time scenarios on them?

Well, they're big old annihilation time robies.

There's also a hat shaped like a squid, a rainbow-colored squid.

Sure.

I'll wear the hat.

Yeah, I mean, that's reasonable.

Other question: when people come over to Goat Manor, do they also have to sign their life savings over to Dieter and disconnect from their families?

We're working on that.

Uh-huh.

I forgot what this case was about.

Where am I?

More importantly, where is Goat Banner?

It's in the Outer Sunset.

I'm going to presume that the Outer Sunset is a neighborhood of the Bay Area that I'm not familiar with.

John, the Outer Sunset.

John's not a celestial body that you have imagined.

I think my fellow San Franciscans in here will back me up when I say that the Outer Sunset is a neighborhood in San Francisco known for wild and outrageous characters.

Okay.

Anyone want to make any other revelations before I

go into my chambers?

Why we have the sashes?

What's that?

Would you like to know the story behind why we have the sashes?

Very much!

So, there's a large mythos that's involved with Goat Manor, but one of the mythos

is that my family.

Thank you for bringing this initiate into your mysteries.

She does do that.

We do have ceremonies for that.

Just let me give you all my money.

Do you take Apple Pay?

Yes.

Jesse,

tell my family

I don't miss them at all.

All right.

Just for reasons of time, does the mythos take

more than 48 hours?

Not this one.

Okay, go on.

So you know how poisonous animals often have warning colors?

Did anyone mention?

Of course I do.

Go on.

I'm not asking any more questions.

I'm just accepting the truth as it's revealed to me.

Poisonous animals often have

warning colors.

I think I've got a lot of colours, butterfly

orange.

I thought you said morning colors.

A lot of poisonous animals are Edwardians.

Right.

Okay, yes, warning colors, of course.

So my husband is a poisonous animal, but he was born without his warning colors.

So his mom had to warn schoolmates somehow not to lick him or bite him because they'd die.

So she made him sashes.

Do you remember how that sentence began, my husband is a poisonous animal?

Yes.

Would it be foolish of me to ask for any more clarification?

Yes.

Yes, because nothing is clear anymore, is it?

It's best not to question the mythos.

I agree.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going into my chambers and I may never come out.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

There's so much that I want to know, but I feel like we have other things to do on the show eventually, and like one question will lead to a million more.

So, I guess I will just ask Somali, how are you feeling about your chances in this case?

Maybe 50/50.

Ha!

Maybe 20-80.

Raya, how are you feeling?

I don't know if the sashes were for or against me.

Well, I guess we'll have to see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about that.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

When I read the original petition to this court,

I truly worried that we would not have very much to talk about.

I did not expect that I would end up questioning my own sense of reality.

Let the record show for listeners at home.

I'm very shaken up.

A sash will help.

Did you bring one?

Right.

You should have thought of that.

I totally would have worn an end time sash.

I'm a believer now.

I didn't know that there would be much to talk because obviously Raya's hair looks fantastic.

And my opinion doesn't matter.

The opinion that matters, of course, is her own opinion, and she has testified that her journey has been hard but well worth it, and she loves her appearance as it is, and a true friend would support her in that and not try to

pester her into

putting chemicals in her hair, or rather be a test subject for Somali's own Barbie barber shop.

I didn't think we would have much to talk about at all.

Obviously,

I rule in Rai's favor.

I mean,

it's just, first of all, common sense.

Second of all, it's her body.

That's a bad tenet of law, but

I've now learned there is a higher law.

There's the law of goat manor.

Even if I felt that Somali for a moment had a point,

I'm never going against Goat Manor.

I actually need to let you know it's our Lord the Capybara.

Stop saying words, both of you.

Our Lord the Capybara?

Capybaras are the world's largest rodent.

They like to swim in swimming pools on YouTube.

You're saying that the capybara is above Raya and Dieter?

The capybara is the lord of Goat Manor.

He is our Lord and Savior.

For only with the Capybara may our teeth always grow.

All right, I've got to get control over this again.

For now,

briefly, I'm in charge.

Here are my orders.

Somali, lay off.

It's not your place.

Maybe someday Raya will want to dye her hair, and she will naturally turn to you because obviously you guys love each other.

But

Raya is her own person, your own subcult of the bubble tea tattoo.

She is not what she owes allegiance to.

She owes allegiance to herself and obviously a mythical copybara.

However, I further order that a sash be made available available to me as swiftly as possible.

Make that happen.

Along with what tenets of your personal religion you feel

safe and desirous to reveal to the rest of the world, so that we may spread them among maximum fun listeners.

I love this so much.

You are truly greatest of all time.

Good manner.

I find in Raya's favor, this is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Our thanks to Sarah McCulley for naming this case.

Raya Somali, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you very much.

I look forward to my sash.

Whatever the copybar thinks is best for me, I will accept it.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Let me ask you a question.

Did you know?

that most of the dishes served at Tom Clicchio's craft restaurant are made in, made in pots and pans.

It's true.

The brace short ribs, made in, made in.

The Rohan Duck Riders of Rohan, made in, made in.

That heritage pork chop that you love so much, you got it.

It was made in, made in.

But made in isn't just for professional chefs.

It's for home cooks too.

And even some of your favorite celebratory dishes can be amplified with made-in cookware.

It's the stuff that professional chefs use, but because it is sold directly to you, it's a lot more affordable than some of the other high-end brands.

We're both big fans of the carbon steel.

I have a little carbon steel skillet that my mother-in-law loves to use because cast iron is too heavy for her, but she wants that non-stick.

And I know that she can, you know, she can heat that thing up hot if she wants to use it hot.

She can use it to braise if she wants to use it to braise.

It's an immensely useful piece of kitchen toolery.

And it will last a long time.

And whether it's griddles or pots and pans or knives or glassware or tableware, I mean, you know, Jesse, I'm sad to be leaving Maine soon, but I am very, very happy to be getting back to my beloved made-in entree bowls.

All of it is incredibly solid, beautiful, functional, and as you point out, a lot more affordable because they sell it directly to you.

If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common.

They're made in, made in.

For full details, visit madeincookware.com.

That's M-A-D-E-I-N Cookware.com.

Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Oh, my goodness.

That was amazing.

Yeah.

But we have more amazing justice to dispense.

And as well, a very special musical guest, Jesse Thorne.

Tell us a little bit about who will be favoring us with the song.

Well, you might know him from his work with the hip-hop group The Roots.

You might know him from his performance in Julie Tamor's Across the Universe.

You might know him from his 8x10 in my dad's favorite breakfast restaurant, Breakfast at Tiffany's.

Please welcome to the stage the brilliant Martin Luther McCoy.

It's a pleasure to be here.

I feel like you guys might have heard some of my songs before.

This first one is inspired by the last guest we just heard from

my mom used to make me sashes

back when I was in high

school.

She said, get over yourself in style

Let's make it happen

is over to the ground Who asked you to pretend if you're ready?

I mean really And don't hesitate to get up, get up, get up Let's get it in

Cause we've been waiting for you

for this moment to arrive.

We've been waiting for you.

You give me power and I want to touch the sky.

We've been waiting for you.

We've been waiting for you now.

Let me know if you're ready to come up, ready to touch the sky.

What if we took that chance ahead?

Dream pick, get out the box.

Get it how you live,

get involved, and we can get it on.

Let's do it with sessions, guys.

Cause I wanna see you

shining like

beautiful stars you are.

And I know you're ready, baby.

You'll never know till you let go, let go, let's go do it right now.

We've been waiting for you

for this moment to arrive.

We've been waiting for you.

We've been waiting for you now

for this moment to arrive.

We've been waiting for you, babe.

Let me know that you're ready to come up, ready to go,

ready to come up, ready to touch the sky.

Thank you.

Yep, I'll make it quick.

She wants to know I don't call her back.

I'm chasing my music dream.

Now I miss her too, but that don't change the fact.

I'm chasing a music dream.

She wants me to be the best that I can.

I want to be seen for all that I am.

But sometimes it's hard to live up to demand.

It's wrong for me

to lead her on when my flesh gets weak.

The truth keeps us strong.

But nobody wants to be in second place,

chasing a music dream.

I sure hate that I put that look on her face

from chasing a music dream

when she only wants what's best for my life

to be my friend my lover my wife

but building a home is a great sacrifice

And is that going to take up

too much of my time?

Well, I got to be all the man that I am.

Feeling like no one can quite understand.

You see, I've given my love.

Now I don't give a damn.

Chasing a music dream.

But being with her makes my spirit shine bright.

And she is a gift I should cherish for life.

And turning my back on her would not be wise.

So I'll grab my guitar and get lost in my world.

But where is this place to which I've cast my pearl?

Help me rescue the love of a boy and his girl,

chasing a music,

a fool and his music,

I'm chasing a music dream.

Thank you, and good night.

Martin Luther McCoy.

You can find Martin Luther McCoy online at martinluthermccoy.bandcamp.com.

You know, we've been doing My Brother, My Brother Me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no.

No, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah.

You don't even really know how crypto works.

the only nfts i'm into are naughty funny things which is what we talk about on my brother my brother and me

we serve it up every monday for you if you're listening and if not we just leave it out back and goes rotten so check it out on maximum fun or wherever you get your podcasts

all right we're over 70 episodes into our show let's learn everything so let's do a quick progress check have we learned about quantum physics yes episode 59.

we haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, that was some justice that we meted out.

But there's still some injustice left that we're going to have to mete out swiftly now.

And to do it, I believe we have a friend of the court with us here this evening.

Absolutely.

She's a San Francisco and half of the team behind the Maximum Fun podcast Minority Corner.

San Francisco, please put your hands together for Anneke FitzClark.

Let the record show for those listening at home that Anneke

danced across the stage and is extremely and beautifully pregnant.

Yeah, this whole thing is our attempt to recreate the viral magic of that time that Amy Poehler rapped on Saturday Night Live.

Welcome.

Thank you for being here, especially since you are going to have a child soon.

Oh, no.

I'm happy to be here.

Can I take this out?

Yeah, please.

Yeah.

I'm Allie Wong in it.

So, Anneka, you are the co-host of Minority Corner on maximumfund.org.

Yes.

And tell us all what your podcast is all about.

Well, we are black, queer, and ladylike.

Fantastic.

Like blues clues.

Who listens?

Anybody listens?

Okay.

Smattering.

Y'all need more black friends, so listen to us.

That's what we're here for.

And you talk about what?

Politics, pop culture, buts.

You know.

The big three.

Three great topics.

And do you have any

mythos that I need to know about before we go on?

Because I'm tired of being taken by surprise.

I almost wore my sash.

Well, okay.

You know, I do like an oil-slick hairdo,

and I preference butts.

All right.

Well, I hope you'll lend some expertise as we hear these cases.

We're going to put a timer, 15 minutes on the clock, to hear three cases in quick succession in a segment we call Swift Justice.

Cool.

And Jesse Thorne, when you're ready, call the first litigants.

The clock is ready.

Please welcome Alicia and Mason.

So, Alicia, you bring this case against Mason and your relationship to Mason is what?

He is my partner and cohabitant.

Ah, very good.

Specific.

I don't care if people get married anymore, by the way.

I've not given up.

I've grown with the times.

Do whatever the hell you want.

Have fun splitting the bills.

Now,

what is your dispute with Mason?

So last September, I wanted to put a box of his stuff that's been sitting out in our public space into storage.

Yes.

He resisted.

I see.

Now, we...

Physically?

He held on to it?

He chained himself to it?

It was kind of like a ball and chain scenario where he dragged it around the house with him.

All right.

What was in the box?

It was fitness equipment.

Sashes.

Sashes, fezzes, regalia.

And a squid hat.

I don't want to hear about weird hats anymore.

Fitness equipment.

John, if you didn't want to hear about weird hats, why did you come to San Francisco?

Good point.

And Mason resisted.

And then what?

Then we talked like functioning adults.

Great.

And then something obviously broke in your relationship because here you are.

It's teetering.

Well, like a lot of people in this city, we are struggling with storage space.

And

I don't know if everyone has been into the same Netflix shows that I have been, but

look, you're talking about tidying up with Mari Kondo.

I think it's pretty clear that we were talking about Mari Kondo on the Judge Sean Hodgman podcast 35 years ago,

and I do not understand why I have not been invited on that show

to fold some clothes

and spark some joy.

But it's fine, good for her.

Obviously, this box of janky fitness equipment no longer sparks joy for you, Alicia, and Mason wants to keep it around and

display it in the living room.

Well, when we talked, he chose to bring up the fact that I bring in most of the stuff.

But you bring him most of the fitness equipment.

Most of the things that

take up extra space in the apartment other than storage space.

So you countered by saying, Well, you also have a lot of junk.

Exactly.

Why are you talking about my junk?

Let me deflect with a completely fallacious logical argument by pointing out that there might be some things that you need to tidy up as well.

It was a little spiteful, I admit.

All right.

Well, admitted.

John, my Latin's a little rusty, but I believe it's the fallacy of I'm the rubber, you're the glue.

And so,

where does this dispute stand now?

So I would like you to order him to join me in my seasonal clear outs and evaluations of our general stuff, which he does not do, and I do very regularly.

I see.

Is that true, Mason?

I would also say that I don't buy a lot of things.

I don't bring a lot of things into the apartment.

And this fitness equipment, are you using it or not?

I'm not.

And I.

Okay, very good.

No, that's...

There's more.

there's more please I beg of you in that case

do you have any any questions for the for the litigants or any observations that you would like to make

um do you have ten dollars per month to spare

sure planet fitness is

excellent

and then you know you can always just pay the money and that's kind of like so I have in conversation as she was she was saying

a I didn't say no to putting the box away.

It just kind of sparked a larger conversation about something that has bothered me, and that's kind of a countersuit, which is the

wow.

Which, if you'll, I will allow you to move these goalposts.

So,

I it, I, I feel conflicted about it a tiny bit.

I admit it's not an enormous amount, but a tiny bit because Alicia both loves thrifting and is really good at it.

She is like, it's incredible.

She will go a whole day and no matter how many hours she's been going, she will spot that amazing little thing.

She goes thrifting every couple weeks generally, I would say on average.

She does not come home with at least two bags of things.

And I

and I

I would say that her request that I join her in the seasonal cleaning kind of highlights my frustrations a little bit because by seasonal cleanings means every one and a half months, which means that things are building up.

And so.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

If you're cleaning out every one and a half months, wouldn't things not be building up?

That would seem like if you're going thrifting every week and coming home with two bags of stuff, but then you're cleaning out every six weeks, that's a pretty good churn

of influx to outflux, right?

But you also.

All the records show that Alicia is nodding

with a proud look on her face.

The frustrating piece is that we have very limited surface space to do anything, very limited counter space, table space, and that space is taken up.

So she clears out.

Two weeks later, she's thrifting.

Now there's four weeks of things sitting around, taking up space, which gives, it's the ambiguity that gives me anxiety that I have to be shuffling around.

That just, that feeling of anxiety of, you know, it's not totally an open space for me to use.

Is your place a rat nest of junk?

No, I don't want to make it sound like it's a catastrophe.

It's more like

it's we have a very we've we both really love our apartment and we've designed it in a way that I think we both really like.

It's just that it things start building up in the corner.

And for me, it starts feeling a little oppressive when the piles build up.

I think what I realize now is that you guys are candidates for a new project that I'm working on.

It's called the day-to-day sorcery of spiffing it up.

up.

It's my idea.

I come over to your house

and I put on my sash

and I speak a secret language to your house

and then I offer it gratitude and then I touch everything you own

and then I go home and it leave it up to you

Alicia and Eke do you have any anything you want to

investigate further here I don't want to I just feel like the box of junk kind of where where did that go I know right we started

this we started on something this is a very

these are weird journeys we're going yeah I know

What's the tangent?

I mean, is it the box of junk or is it deeper?

What I think we have to evaluate here is exactly that question, right?

Yes.

Because I kind of feel like what I'm getting is this dude's got a box of dumbbells that he doesn't ever work out with.

Medicine ball, what he does.

Yeah, exactly.

A speed bag, maybe.

Body jiggler.

Like a 19th century John Harvey Kellogg.

Yeah.

John Harvey Kellogg, a relation of mine.

Also those, does he have those squeezies?

Those things you use to strengthen your risk.

You can use our crew things that make your hands straight.

What is the equipment that you have?

Quick inventory.

If you don't remember it, you don't want it.

They are dumbbells and a

product.

Well, is buzz marketing allowed?

I don't remember if that's...

Yeah, yeah, I don't care about anything end up.

It just goes.

And a TRX.

Tiaras?

A TRX.

Oh, a TRX.

Isn't that just a DVD?

There's something weird about those microphones.

Anytime someone says anything into them, I think they're talking about strange hats now.

So it could be this box of junk.

Yeah.

Right?

That's the issue here.

And

my feeling is that Mason is throwing up all this other emotional stuff as a smokescreen.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Protecting those dumbbells.

It was the source of the resistance.

And once we started talking, I became more comfortable with the idea of getting rid of the box, but the larger issue was

my frustration with the rest of it.

How do you feel, Alicia?

Is there any credence to Mason's argument?

Do you feel like you could do maybe some more churn?

I could.

Okay.

But I...

That shows a certain amount of self-knowledge and reflection that Mason is obviously incapable of.

I'm glad that you didn't turn it on him and accuse him of something else.

What do you bring home from the thrift store?

What kind of stuff?

What's your thing?

I

enjoy home decor.

Sure.

Okay.

So I like

little ceramics that can hold things.

I like...

Someone out there is groaning.

Yeah.

I'm getting a real tchotchki vibe going on with

lots of tchotchkis.

Is there a period or a style of tchotchki tchotchki that you're interested in?

I like things that speak to me.

Are you going to tell me that you're hearing voices?

That these little ceramic copybars are giving you orders?

Everything she brings home is fantastic.

Beautiful silver platters,

some really nice

the little pots, what do you call them?

I'm terrible.

I can't.

Shotglasses?

No.

No, that you would like bake a lava cake in.

Like a French cake.

Lava cake?

That's specific.

No, well, it's the size and shape.

Ramekin, ramekin.

Ramekin.

Thank you.

She brought home four.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Alicia, you bringing home ramekins?

That's not ramekins for me.

I mean,

I believe, you know that I believe in anything

that

electrifies you with happiness.

John,

who among us is not electrified with happiness by dipping sauces

she brings home ramekins that she found that she got for ten dollars that new cost like seven but you know like ramekins are are junk ramekins

ramekins are what happens when bowls shit you know what i mean like

that's not something a decorative item you put on a thing unless you put like an air plant in there or something going on in this house.

I guess your ranch dressing's running all over your plate.

Well, I'm not saying you don't need ranikins in your life.

I'm just saying that,

look, everyone likes what they like, but I have never seen a carefully curated collection of ramekins

that made me feel like that is a good use of shelf space.

I could be wrong.

We'll find out when Hulu and I come over

to change your life.

But for now,

I'm going to say this.

That box of fitness junk is going on the street unless you find a place to put it that is not in a shared public space right away.

And then you guys are going to do a thorough

man hodgeo treatment.

And you're going to throw everything into the middle of your apartment and you're going to touch it.

And it's like, am I electrified with happiness?

Yes, no.

And you're going to give me $10,000.

This is the sound of a game.

Thank you, Alicia and Mason.

Please welcome Christina and Tyler.

Christina and Tyler, who comes before me seeking justice today?

Which one of you is initiating this case?

I am.

Christina, what is the nature of your dispute?

Okay, so we have a dog named Boone,

and

Boone looks like kind of a Muppet mix,

but she's actually a particular muppet.

Which Muppets?

Animal.

Animal mixed with whom?

Zoot?

Okay.

But she's actually a particular breed with kind of a long name.

What is the name of the breed?

Wire-haired pointing pointing Griffon.

Oh, gasps.

That's appropriate.

I know that's a good idea.

Wire-haired, pointy, Gryffindor Capybara,

champion the third.

Bandersnatch.

Okay.

Oh, Frabgis Day, Kalu Kale.

I understand that there are a lot of people, I am a cat person because I like being despised.

I understand that dog people will naturally always want to get on stage and say, I have this dog, and here is its name.

But there is a dispute here of some kind.

Yes, Your Honor.

So, when we take her out, people often ask us what kind of dog she is because

there's some evidence to see, but she's kind of.

We're going to take a look at that in a moment.

She's very cute.

She has human eyes.

That's right, yeah.

What is her name again?

Boone.

Boone.

Let the record show that Jesse Thorne is now waving at the picture.

I love it.

Can we bring down the side lights for a minute so we don't get the wash in the picture so we can really see her?

This is her as a puppy.

Very adorable.

This is her as a puppy.

Deep, penetrating, human eyes.

This is her as a puppy.

Yeah.

Let the record show that Bailiff Jesse Thorne is now nuzzling the screen.

Do you have another photograph?

This is her as a puppy.

Now let's see her.

Yeah, there should be one more of her.

All right, let's take a look.

Oh.

And there she is in her yarn, Boonville Yard.

I noticed that you've allowed her to become naturally gray.

That keeps Somalia away from her.

I try to douse her in purple oil slick or whatever.

Okay, so I can see why Boone attracts so much attention, and people say, hey, that's an amazing-looking dog.

What kind of dog is it?

And what do you say?

Wire-hair, super dupe, whatever it is?

Well, the dispute is that I always make the effort to say the full breed name.

Say it again.

Wire-haired pointing griffon.

Yeah, great.

Because

that's what she is.

Because that's what she is.

And

because

I think that people are genuinely interested and they might want to get one.

And if I were to say to my friend, like,

what kind of car is that?

I like your car.

What kind of car is that?

And they were like, it's a sedan.

That wouldn't be

very helpful.

So.

I take it that Tyler would prefer not to say the the full breed name

because he doesn't want to seem like some weird snob.

I'm not sure what his poor reasoning is, but

he tends to say she's a pointer or a griff, which is not obviously a sufficient amount of information.

He never says that she's a sedan, does he?

No, Your Honor.

All right.

What is your point of view, Tyler?

So I find that when people ask that question, I think maybe eight times out of ten, it's it's often just kind of small talk.

And I find that if I use the full, lengthy, kind of pretentious breed name, it not only invites a lot of follow-up, but almost requires it.

Because,

I mean.

So

another name for the breed is Corthal's Griffon, which is like even more.

What?

Yeah.

So.

Corthal's?

Yeah, it's the spell it.

K-O-R-L.

Spell it.

Division, you're not making this up.

K-O-R.

Everyone's gaslighting me tonight.

Spell it!

Well, don't think about it, spell it, or else you're making it up.

Well, I think you're.

Corthals.

How dare you?

Your reaction kind of proves my point, which is like it's.

It's a very unique and kind of bizarre name.

You have not spelled it for me, Tyler.

It's K-O-R-T-H-A-L-S.

And that K, talk to these people.

I don't even know.

That K was a twist.

Yeah.

As a proud dog owner of Zelda.

She's so smug about her dog.

Yeah.

Zelda, maybe you've heard of her.

She's, you know,

Instagram famous, not really, no.

She is a weird breed.

She's a pit rottweiler, but she's really cute.

I never say her breed because, being an Oakland person, it makes me extremely Oakland, so I get it.

So I usually just say she's, you know, she's fun when someone asks.

What's my question?

Do you take her to dog parks often?

Yes.

We're also in Oakland, so we take her out a lot, and we sometimes take her to grift togethers.

Oakland was a good.

I'm glad you said Oakland because

I don't know how many people would tolerate that.

What part of Oakland are you?

Yeah, I kind of feel like.

Are you in East Oakland?

I kind of feel like this is a tale of two Oaklands.

I know, I know, I know.

But we also live in Oakland where we have a griff together.

Yeah, this is also kind of my point.

Like, we live in a place where it feels even more pretentious than I think it would in other places.

We did get made fun of that one time.

Yeah.

Say that again?

Well, so one time I told someone at a dog park when she was the puppy picture age that she was a wire-haired pointing griffon, and then he said...

Also known as a Courthall's Minds of Moria.

Up John.

Go on.

And this guy said that we were fancy, but not in a nice way.

Like, you know.

Yeah.

In an Oakland way.

I hate to break it to you.

Well, she's like a discount.

You are nice,

but you are fancy.

You are fancy, pantsy.

Is that why you don't want to say the name of the breed, Tyler?

You're out here going, like, well, I don't think people really are interested because, and I'm like, well, he is a man.

He does know what other people are thinking all the time.

Or maybe there's an internal reason you don't want to say it.

Yeah, that's at least half of it.

Yeah.

For sure.

Yeah, because

you're gentrifying.

I'm not saying this to be accusatory.

I live in Parksload, Brooklyn.

I'm part of the problem.

John, I'm born and raised in the mission if you need somebody to be accusatory about it.

You feel a little self-conscious.

Yes?

Yes.

No, yes.

Okay, right.

Here's the thing.

You have a fancy, fancy dog,

which is adorable.

She's wonderful.

And you have chosen to have a pure breed.

And you need to own that.

Own your truth.

If you're hiding what the breed is because you don't want to say the whole thing,

you know, if you just want to save some time, or

it's a mouthful, I agree.

But you should own your truth.

And if your truth is, you have this beautiful, wonderful, naturally gray-haired dog

that has this long breed name, then just look people in the eye and say, this is my.

What is it again?

The thing is.

And let them decide if they want to ask you follow-up questions.

And if they do, it's probably because they're curious.

And it will spark conversation.

And people say, you know,

these guys are nice fancy pantses.

Because you are.

Well, to flesh out the record a little bit,

I don't just say she's a dog and walk away.

Well I know.

I'll say oh she's a Griff or I'll say she's a pointer.

Yeah well here's here's here's what here's what you don't.

This is where I'm.

Don't just say she's a griff.

No one knows what that is.

No one knows what that is.

That's not like saying oh this car is a sedan.

That's like I'm trying to think like

trying to think of some obscure sailing term.

It's like, it's like, what kind of, what, oh, that's a very interesting boat.

What kind of that?

Oh, you know, it's a 12 and a half haven.

You know what I'm talking about, right?

No, just say, you know, Joel White, the son of E.B.

White, decided not to become a writer but become a boat builder.

And

he designed wooden boats.

basically rescued the wooden boat industry from obscurity and in part by modeling a new boat based on the old Harashov design, of which there are only 307 made.

Classic 12 and a half-foot sailing boat.

They call it a haven, and the beauty of it is it's a teaching boat, and anyone can learn to sail it, and really, more people should.

Would you like to ride in my boat?

And so, you guys are fancy.

This is how we got our reputation as salt of the earth.

I'm just saying,

I am fancy.

I know I'm fancy, right?

But when you use a term like Griff,

you're essentially using a code that is exclusive.

When you just simply say, this is my dog, it's a fancy dog.

I chose to have a pure breed for reasons of my own rather than have a rescue dog, even though they need help.

I'm not here to shame you.

I'm just saying

we make choices, and sometimes the choices are going to make the mob angry.

But we only have one go-round, and Boone is your dog, and she's beautiful, and she happens to be this breed that I'm never going to know what it is.

And

you just own it and just say, This is what it is, this is the way we are, and let people know you.

You know, don't hide it, don't hide it, because that's more insulting, I think.

And so

I find in Christina's favor, I find in Boone's favor, Tyler, you're nice.

I, you know,

make a donation to an animal shelter.

And have a great time with your dog.

Thank you, Christina and Tyler.

Let's welcome Anne-Marie and Patrick.

Anyone, anyone, I mean the beauty of the 12 and a half Harishoff in the haven is anyone can sail.

Anyone can sail, and it's beautiful.

It

should be open to more.

It should be open to more people.

Do you want to come on my boat?

Sure.

I don't own one of these boats.

Are you kidding me?

We can find one.

Yeah, no.

The marina.

I'm sorry, who's here now?

What new surprises are here for me?

Well.

Who brings this case before this court?

I do.

And you are Anne-Marie.

I am Anne-Marie.

Yes.

And I'm bringing my husband.

Yes.

And I knew that he was the one when,

during our second date, he took me to a karaoke bar, which is amazing.

So, tip.

But since then, our favorite pastimes have always been just belting out songs.

So, I have to read this.

When we first started dating a lot of people, put the notes away.

You've got to be in the moment.

When we first started living in the world.

Do you have notes?

Yes.

Do you think I look at them?

No.

I get distracted.

Okay, karaoke.

Yes.

So when we first started living together, we were living in our tiny little apartment in the Tenderloin.

And we would sit on our...

our bed and we would YouTube karaoke songs and then until now we also we sing in our car with our two-year-old son trying to get your

side.

Oh anyways

she's appealing to your maternal instincts I think

hasn't kicked in.

No

okay what is the what is your so I love the portrait of your of your courtship, your deepening relationship, your relationship with song.

Very sweet.

You have a child now.

I feel like

I'm watching the pre-credits scene to up here.

I'm getting a whole picture.

Yes.

So

I'm going to damn.

But

every time that we're singing a song, we belt out, we go all out, we're dancing.

And at the

pivotal moment, and we mainly listen to 90s songs, so I don't know if it's current songs.

90s songs we have

every time we're singing a song, yes, we're singing a song,

we get to a key change, and it's like the best part of a song, and my husband goes, key change.

But why?

You know what?

I apologize to you.

That was

masterful.

Yeah, you set a stage

engaged in the art of storytelling misdirection.

You're the greatest storyteller in the United States today.

Yeah, I'm like 75% sure you just won a moth story slam.

All right.

And that's the dispute.

You don't want him to say those words anymore?

He's basically ruined songs for me, but yes.

Yes.

Specific songs or songs as a topic?

Many songs.

I can name them.

Okay.

Any Whitney Houston song.

Right.

They all have Q-Change.

There's

Living on a Prayer, Bon Jovi.

You get to the point and like Q-Change.

Yeah, you can't do it.

Sorry,

I don't know that song.

You're gonna have to, you know, you're gonna have to sing it for me.

Living on a friend.

Now, wait a minute, do the get to the point where he does the thing.

Yeah, you're halfway there.

I know!

The bomb's going off.

Yeah.

John, I know a couple white people things too, my friend.

Let the record show that the roof of the Castro Theater just blew off into space.

And it was on fire.

Can you do the key change from Living on a Prayer by John Bondiovi?

You're the one from New Jersey.

What?

I'm sorry?

Can you do...

Can one of you sing the key change portion of the song, yes or no?

That's why I say key change.

Because I can't actually sing it.

Oh,

living on a prayer.

Living on a prayer.

That was beautiful.

That's actually, technically, that's...

What you did was not a key change.

Maybe that's.

Do you think you can stop yourself from saying these words to make your wife happy?

I mean, maybe make a mental note.

I don't know if that'll bring as much joy in my life.

Why do you like saying it so much?

It brings me joy.

I don't know why.

No, you're supposed to say it electrifies me with happiness.

Cut it out 50% of the time.

I find in Anne-Marie's favorite.

All right.

Thank you, Anne-Marie and Patrick.

And of course, our thanks to NK FitzCard from Minority Corner for helping bring some Swiss justice to the Castro Theater.

And Junior Fitzclark

for their contributions.

Thanks to all the litigants who joined us on stage at the Castro Theater as part of San Francisco Sketch Fest.

Make sure you check out the Judge John Hodgman page on maximumfun.org, where we have posted the goat manor mythos that Raya provided for us directly from her secret society of a home.

Thanks to all of our friends at San Francisco Sketch Fest and the Castro Theater for making this possible, the show was recorded by Matthew Barnhart, and our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

This is the sound of me saying this is the sound of a gabble.

That is all.

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