Forced Arbor-tration

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

It's the second week of Max Fundrive, the only time that we ask our audience for their support.

We'll talk about the Max Fund Drive later on in the episode, but make sure to visit maximumfund.org/slash donate and check out all of the cool prizes you can get and all the contribution levels and become a member of Max Fund.

This week, forced arbitration.

Richard brings the case against his husband, Chris.

They have a Japanese maple tree in their yard, and Richard loves it.

But Chris thinks it's an eyesore.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

Orange Dream, Red Leader.

Burgundy Lace, Little Princess.

Bloodgood, Skeeter's Broom.

Jerry Schwartz.

Golden Pond.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in.

Richard, Chris, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God, or whatever.

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he prefers bushes?

I do.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Technically, the Japanese maple is a hedge, actually.

Thank you, John.

I love it, and I hate anyone who hates it.

Oh, am I prejudiced?

We'll find out.

Chris and Richard, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors.

This is not a typical cultural reference.

I'm not going to ask you to name the culture that I was quoting because I wasn't quoting any culture.

I was listing cultivars of the Japanese maple.

All but one of those is a cultivar of the Japanese maple.

Can either of you pick the one that is not a cultivar of the Japanese maple.

Do you want to hear them again real quick?

Yes, please.

Who was speaking just then?

That was Chris.

Thank you, Chris.

You may listen as well, Richard.

Orange Dream, Red Leader, Burgundy Lace.

Little Princess, Blood Good, Skeeter's Broom.

Jerry Schwartz, Golden Pond.

Which one of those is not a cultivar of the Japanese maple?

Chris, eager to hear that list again.

What's your guess?

I haven't heard of Jerry Schwartz, so I'll go with that.

All right, we'll put that in the guest book.

Jerry Schwartz.

And Chris, you like a Japanese maple, or you hate it?

I hate it.

Okay, I will put that in the guest book.

Very good.

And now, Richard, you like Japanese maples.

You don't hate them like Chris does.

I like them and know nothing about them.

Oh, okay.

So, what's your guess as to which one of those cultivars is entirely fictional?

I was going to say Jerry Schwartz as well.

Well, you can't because Chris said that.

Oh, dear.

Okay, Skeeter's broom.

Skeeter's broom.

All guesses are wrong.

Jerry Schwartz, can you believe it?

Jesse Thorne, we should have called this the obscure cultivar reference, right?

You know what?

Richard, Chris, take a drink of water.

We're going to start over.

I do John Fantasy Reports on the Sclar Brothers Sclarborough Country podcast from time to time, where we do fantasy sports reports, but about things that aren't sports.

Yeah.

And I did one for rose varieties once.

Oh, nice.

And it was basically, I just spent an entire afternoon making the longest list of the craziest names of actual rose varieties.

And it was really fun.

I'll bet.

I didn't have to make up any crazy names here, though.

Jerry Schwartz, Blood Good?

That's a good one.

That's one that I knew.

Skeeter's Broom is a variant of the Blood Good, which was one of the greatest sentences I discovered on the internet today.

Of course, Orange Dream, Breeding Lace, Little Princess, a Golden Pond.

They're all Japanese maples.

The one that isn't, of course, Red Leader.

Red Leader was one of the X-Wings in the Star Warses.

Oh, God.

If you were going to guess Red Leader, if either of you had guessed Red Leader, I would have said, all right, so who was Red Leader in the Battle of Endor?

And your answer would have been

Wedge Antilles, of course.

So now we can move on.

Poor Wedge Antilles.

Okay, Chris and Richard, you live in Portland, Oregon.

Is that correct?

Yes.

And you are husbands to each other, and you have a Japanese maple that is a point of contention.

That is correct.

Richard, tell me about this Japanese maple.

We've been living in our current house for three years, and we have a Japanese maple, fairly small tree, sitting right in the middle of...

It's actually our front garden.

And when we got there, Chris ripped up I think every plant in the entire garden, apart from the maple, and replaced it with plants he prefers.

But the maple stands there still, and I love it.

Chris is a little less fond of it.

He says it doesn't fit in with his aesthetic,

and he would like for it to be removed, preferably yesterday.

So, Chris, you had heard of Bloodgood.

You had heard of Bloodgood.

You mentioned that you'd heard of some of the other cultivars.

You know more about Japanese maples than Richard does, and it sounds like you are in charge of the gardening in your home.

Are you a gardener or a landscaper or a garden designer by trade?

No, I wouldn't go that far.

I work at a plant nursery part-time during the spring and summer.

Yeah, well, you wouldn't go that far, but that's pretty far to go.

It's pretty far.

It's pretty far.

Okay.

You know your plants.

Was I wrong about the Japanese maple being a hedge?

I think it depends on what kind.

There are lots of different forms.

Okay.

Do you know what kind you have in your yard?

We have a thread leaf, which is one of the kind of weeping form.

Mm-hmm.

And why do you hate it so much?

Why do you hate this beautiful tree?

Well, in Portland, you can't turn around without seeing a Japanese maple.

They're everywhere.

So to me, it feels very common.

Oh.

It's a cliche.

One of the reasons.

You're a tree hipster.

That's one of the reasons I hate it.

I also don't like that for a good portion of the year, it's bare

and makes that part of the garden, which I think is kind of the focal point of the garden, empty.

Yeah, you're in the Pacific Northwest.

It's an evergreen state.

You don't want to have bare trees.

Not to be confused with the Evergreen State University.

No, never.

I have a friend who was rejected from every college that he applied to.

And at the last minute, he had to apply to Evergreen State.

And the name of his college essay is Why Evergreen?

Why Me?

Why Now?

And he got in.

And then he transferred to Tufts.

Okay, you have sent in evidence.

And I'm going to take a look at this evidence so that I can just focus my thinking.

And if you're listening to this podcast and you're not driving, you can go to maximumfund.org or the Judge John Hodgman page there or our Instagram account at instagram.com slash judgejohnhodgman.

And you can follow along as well.

Okay, so here we have evidence submitted by Richard, the tree lover.

Here is one of three captioned the tree in winter when the leaves have dropped off, something Chris especially dislikes.

Now, what I'm seeing here, Chris, is kind of a corner yard on a typical Portland, Oregon street.

And I see where you have ripped out all of the other plants and have replanted things that are more to your liking because I see a huge expanse of mulch and then like dotted with little bits of plants that are going to grow and grow in and fill out that area, right?

So setting aside the discussion of the skeleton tree that's hiding in the back,

what are the other plants you got going there?

What are these shrubs and bushes?

I don't recall exactly what's in that photo.

I don't know if that's recent.

You don't recall.

I mean, I can tell you what's there right now.

Oh, okay.

Have you changed it since this photo photo was taken?

I might have changed my mind since that photo was taken.

Oh, sounds like maybe you're in the garden a little too much.

All right.

What do you got going right now?

I have a lot of manzanitas.

Never heard of it?

You could be lying.

They're shrubs that grow only on the west coast.

Oh, all right.

I have a lot of those.

Message received, west coast snob.

We should mention that we lived on the east coast for many years before we lived in New York.

And that whole time you were just dreaming about what would one day be your manzanita lifestyle?

That's right.

You want to put all East Coast plants behind you and bury them in the earth?

Basically.

What else do you have?

I have some strawberry trees.

Strawberry trees?

What are you talking about?

Yeah, that's not real.

Strawberries don't grow on trees.

Not on the East Coast.

We're dumb, but we're not that dumb.

They will become large evergreen shrubs, I guess you could say.

But they don't bear strawberries, do they?

They don't.

They bear a fruit that really tastes nothing like strawberries.

I don't know why they're called strawberry trees, but.

Classic West Coast lion shrub.

I think that's the work of some kind of evil arborist

pulling a sick trick on people at the nursery.

Yeah, and by the strawberry tree, it's actually an evergreen shrub

that gives a fruit that tastes nothing like strawberry.

Plant it right here next to your blueberry fountain.

What?

All right.

I've never been gaslit by a tree before, but.

All right.

Strawberry trees, manzanitas.

What else?

It's really a ton of manzanitas.

I have a lot of different cultivars of manzanitas.

He's obsessed.

Do you have a gold leader?

Do you have a rogue five?

I do not.

I'm looking up manzanitas and, oh, here we go.

I want to take a look at these manzanitas.

All right.

It's a one of many species of manzanita.

The common manzanita or white leaf manzanita.

A little racist.

It is endemic to California.

It also gives a fruit, doesn't it?

It looks like it gives a little a weird, sickly apple or a poison tomato or something.

The bark on the long, crooked branches is reddish.

Sounds gross.

The fruits are white when new and turn red-brown.

Well, good.

I guess you know what?

You like what you like.

And you like weird West Coast plants that thumb their nose at the East Coast that you left behind.

Why did you guys move to Portland?

And how long have you been married?

And where are you in your lives?

We've been married since 2014.

We moved to Portland just around New Year 2015, 2016.

Why did you move?

We were getting a little tired of the area we lived in turning into a playground.

Right.

For influencers.

Oh, you mean playground for not for children, children?

No, not for children.

That would be fine.

For cool kids.

Cool children with Instagram accounts.

Yes.

So we moved to Portland.

Oh, yeah, sure.

There's no one like that there.

Nice.

Okay.

Richard, do you think that there's something to Chris's shedding of all East Coast plants in his life that is affecting his dislike for this Japanese maple?

You know, that's a very interesting point.

I had never

thought of it that way before.

He certainly has, you know, shook off any vestige of East Coast arborism, that's for sure.

And obviously, the Japanese maple, I mean, you guys probably walked around Brooklyn a lot and saw quite a few Japanese maples.

You probably, maybe you saw one in my yard.

Oh, maybe.

You know, they're basically called the John Hodgman tree in Park's Loot.

They are something of a cliché.

But they're lovely.

They are lovely.

But Richard, you can look at this photo, right?

I mean, this photo shows,

I think you took it, right?

Yeah, I did.

So, Richard, you took this photo.

It's a bright, sunny day in Portland, Oregon, and you have this, you would think it is a dead tree in the middle of your yard.

Now, a Japanese maple is beautiful.

How would you describe it, Richard?

How would you describe the beauty of the Japanese maple?

I see where you're going.

I guess I would first refer to the fiery colors, which I really appreciate.

Yes.

Our one is a particularly deep red, wine color.

Honestly, I submitted the winter photograph because I think it's still beautiful in winter.

I mean, look at those branches.

You know, they're so complicated.

It's so gnarled and strange.

I mean, I think it looks really good.

It looks like it's about to do some kind of tiny haunting.

A shrub scale crepezoid something.

Listeners, if you're not in a place where you've seen a lot of Japanese maples or you don't have a yard of your own, which is a lot of people, you can just go on to the next photo in the evidence that Richard submitted to see a Japanese maple in full leaf.

And they are these beautiful wandering-limbed trees with very variegated little branches.

How did you describe the leaves, Chris?

Thread leaf.

Thread leaf.

So these very delicate leaves that take on all different hues of red and orange and deep maroon and deep wine color.

This is a beautiful colored tree, and it's very striking to see a Japanese maple with its usually the dark color of its trunk and then these deep red and maroon leaves.

It's a very striking-looking thing.

And here you have a nice dog sitting next to the tree.

Is that a dog that you own, or is that something else that Chris hates?

No, that's his favorite dog.

That's Walter.

How many dogs do you have?

Three.

Oh, all right.

I'm sensing a bargain coming here.

Richard, is that too many dogs?

Sounds like it, right?

I'm crazy about all of our dogs, but the last one was a guilt trip acquisition.

Yeah.

What's the last one's name?

Casper.

Casper the least loved dog.

Chris, did you guilt Richard into getting a third dog?

No, I did not.

It was a third party.

A third party guilted you?

Yes, Casper is Walter's brother, and they were adopted together, and we kept in touch with the owner and shared photos, and then at some point she declared that he was devastated without his brother.

Oh, so you took Walter, and then Casper started pining.

Yeah.

And so the person you took Walter from said, now you have to take Casper as well.

Yeah, basically, but it turned out to be completely wrong.

He's just a kind of mopey dog, and he was just pining for, I don't know, sweet embrace of death or something.

He's just got a bad attitude in general.

He doesn't care about Walter at all.

That's exactly what it is.

He was pining for the sweet embrace of death or something.

Either that or one of those liver treats that they like so much.

I'm pretty sure it's the former.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

I sense a King Solomon compromise coming here.

You allow the tree to go, Richard, in exchange for Casper getting

kicked out.

I think Casper is Richard's favorite dog.

Really?

Yeah, he won my heart.

Well, that's very nice.

You have a dark heart, though.

You think it has a bad attitude, and it pines for death, and is your favorite dog.

I'm learning about you now, Richard.

Let's take a quick recess.

We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Let me ask you a question.

Did you know that most of the dishes served at Tom Clicchio's craft restaurant are made in, made in pots and pans.

It's true.

The brace short ribs, made in, made in.

The Rohan Duck Riders of Rohan, made in, made in.

That heritage pork chop that you love so much, you got it.

It was made in, made in.

But made in isn't just for professional chefs.

It's for home cooks, too.

And even some of your favorite celebratory dishes can be amplified with made-in cookware.

It's the stuff that professional chefs use, but because it is sold directly to you, it's a lot more affordable

than some of the other high-end brands.

We're both big fans of the carbon steel.

I have a little carbon steel skillet that my mother-in-law loves to use because cast iron is too heavy for her, but she wants that non-stick.

And I know that she can, you know, she can heat that thing up hot if she wants to use it hot.

She can use it to braise if she wants to use it to braise.

It's an immensely useful piece of kitchen toolery.

And it will last a long time.

And whether it's griddles or pots and pans or knives or glassware or tableware, I mean, you know, Jesse, I'm sad to be leaving Maine soon, but I am very, very happy to be getting back to my beloved made-in entree bowls.

All of it is incredibly solid, beautiful, functional, and as you point out, a lot more affordable because they sell it directly to you.

If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common.

They're made in, made in.

For full details, visit madeincookwear.com.

That's M-A-D-E-I-N Cookware.com.

Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Court is back in session.

Let's return to the courtroom for more justice.

You know, the Japanese maple, even though Chris will tell you it's a cliché,

it's a beautiful tree.

It plays a big role in Japanese decorative arts and in ancient Japanese painting and drawing and poetry and life and going maple hunting, Mamajigari, is a big season in Japan when people go to Kyoto and other places where they have lots and lots of these and they change into all different kinds of colors.

It's the equivalent of leaf peeping in Vermont.

It's a beautiful tree.

Do you disagree with any of that, Chris?

It's beautiful.

It's intrinsically intrinsically beautiful.

I don't disagree.

Right.

But you just hate it because it's...

In my garden.

It's in your garden.

Oh.

Do you not share this garden or is it just your garden, Chris?

Well, I think it's fair to say that I do all of the work in the garden.

The grass might disagree.

Other than mowing the lawn, which Richard is very proud to do.

Sure.

Yeah.

I can see a bit of in this third picture, we now see the Japanese maple sort of in mid-decline.

It is not in full crimson leafy bloom, but

it kind of looks a little molty and it's been pruned, I guess, is what's happening here.

Yes, it had just been pruned, I think.

Yeah.

Who pruned it?

You or Chris?

Chris, I did.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

Chris, did you prune this tree specifically to make it look like a wreck?

Because it looks like a sad, frousty, unsheared sheep on the side of a Scottish road.

Looks terrible.

That wasn't what I was going for.

No.

Chris thought that pruning was his Trump card.

The fact that he prunes it.

Yeah, well, you don't.

Look, I have a Japanese maple in my life, and I've not pruned it one time.

It's doing great.

Why did you prune it?

This one turns into it, looks like a snuffle up against if you don't right thin it out gotcha

so chris since this is your garden and you do all the work in it

what would you propose after you kill this tree that you put in its place

honestly i haven't thought too much about it because i haven't imagined it gone or imagined that possibility

something evergreen

perhaps a eucalyptus what about a western banana shrub

what about a west coast coconut vine?

Or any of the other completely fictional plants?

Eucalyptus, you say.

Richard, what do you think about a eucalyptus tree?

I think we're all set on the eucalyptus front for now.

How many do you have?

We have three.

Oh, interesting.

John originally intended to have two, but

the second one had a brother.

Yeah.

That's my favorite.

Are you guys the same age?

Not quite.

I'm 44.

Chris is 36.

Well, very close.

I mean, once you're in that range.

I was trying to get a sense, Chris, if maybe

I am closer in age to Richard.

I'm 47.

And to me, a Japanese maple is the nicest thing in the world, but now I'm starting to wonder, is that like an old man's tree?

Maybe Chris is like

Japanese maple what am I 44 come on eucalyptus dad sorry John I missed that can you say that again I was just I was looking at pictures of eucalyptuses on snapchat no

another influencer

who's deep in eucalyptus Twitter

it doesn't sound like you have much of a plan to replace this tree honestly he's focused on the murder for now yeah I haven't wanted to I haven't given it much thought because I.

It's hard for me to imagine it gone.

You certainly refer to it often enough.

It's hard for me to imagine it actually happening.

How often does he complain about the tree?

Oh my God.

It's definitely weekly.

Oh.

It depends.

When he's working in the nursery, whispers are

into his ears are coming so he can tell him to get rid of it.

His plant buddies are completely on board with this.

Oh, he has plant buddies!

At first, I thought you meant that he was hearing voices,

but you're talking about actual human beings in the nursery.

No, he's talking about talking to plants.

Oh, no.

No, we're talking about people.

Okay.

So, Chris, when you go to the nursery, oh, you're hanging out with your cool nursery friends.

And they're like, Do you still have the Japanese maple?

Oh, my gosh.

You've got to kill it.

Are you under peer pressure to get rid of this Japanese maple?

No, I don't think so.

But you come home and you say, you make jokes about killing it?

Yes, that's correct.

Yes.

I've been given some suggestions on how to kill the tree.

What?

Such as driving copper nails into its trunk.

Whoa.

You're not only thinking about getting rid of the tree, you're planning a murder.

Driving copper nails into the trunk.

What other ideas?

I thought you were making jokes.

But you're actually writing a seven-notebook.

These are homicidal ideations.

I think they count as jokes.

I wouldn't actually do that.

If I found in your favor and ordered you to kill this tree, how would you dispatch it?

I would call Brandt, my next-door neighbor, and ask him to come over with his chainsaw.

Oh, okay.

So you're not going to torture it to death with copper nails?

No, it would be quick.

How do you feel when Chris comes home, Richard, and is talking about getting rid of this tree?

First of all, I think it's crazy.

That tree is old.

It's probably been there for 50 years.

It's beautiful.

Yeah, it's an old man's tree.

It's an old people's tree.

I mean,

it's quite possible.

It's so out of style.

It's like 15 seasons ago in tree fashion.

Well, the person who told us the house was extremely old, so we might have a point there.

Oh,

interesting.

John, we got to wrap this up pretty soon because

me and Jen are millennials and we're going Yukin later.

That's checking out cool eucalyptus trees.

Oh, I can't allow this Japanese maple to be killed on a whim just because Chris wants to be young all the time.

Is the tree hard to maintain?

It should be pruned once a year.

And it took me,

you know, I would say a good six or seven hours to

do what I thought was a good job.

Yeah, I'll be the judge.

It's fine.

Maybe Richard could do better.

Maybe if Richard loved this tree so much and he did it and took that burden off your shoulders, would you feel better about the tree or would it still stick in your craw?

It would stick in my craw a little less.

Oh.

Richard, what do you think about that as a a solution?

Hmm.

I'm not a big fan of gardening, but.

Well, then maybe you don't have a say about what kind of tree you have in your yard.

It's our house.

It's not just his.

Yeah, but one of the tenets of the Judge John Hodgman show is that the person who does the work makes the choices.

If you load the dishwasher, then you know how to load the dishwasher correctly because you came up with the idea.

If you're driving, then you pick the music.

Oh, really?

Oh, my God.

That settled a very, very big dispute between us.

Oh, Oh, great.

First time listener.

Fantastic.

You're going to love it.

Go to maximumfund.org slash donate to support us in the future.

You're going to have a great time.

It's like a comedy judge show, but the judgments are actually kind of real and surprisingly wise.

And for some reason, that guy from NPR's Bullseye is on there.

It's a great show.

You're going to really like it, Richard.

No, I mean, that is settled law in this fake courtroom, that the person who puts in the labor gets to make the hard decisions.

So, by rights, since

you mow the lawn, but you don't work in that garden, and Chris is actually a garden professional, it would be the inclination of this court to let him have a free hand and a murderous green thumb in his own garden.

What reason would you offer that I should not order in his favor?

I mean, the only thing I can say is that this is our house.

There are some things that I do that Chris does not do at all.

So let's take, for example, you know, DIY,

anything that needs a screw gun, basically.

And, you know, I put up some hooks recently, and the idea of me putting them up wherever I want, because he wasn't the one operating the screw gun seems kind of unthinkable to me.

No, but I would think that that's fine.

Oh.

Yeah.

Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of my little mind, for sure.

But, I mean, is that a point of contention between you and Chris?

Were you putting up up hooks where Chris didn't want them?

No, I solicited his opinion and we both decided where they went.

Well, okay, but for the time being, Richard, Chris is not out there

driving copper nails into the trunk of this Japanese maple, right?

A, because he doesn't know how to do it.

You're the handy person around the house.

But B, because he's not going to just go ahead and trash this tree because he knows you care about it, right?

I guess you are correct, although I will say that that when a friend came to our house and remarked on how beautiful it was, he said that they could have it if they could get it out of there.

Chris, is that a possibility of transplanting it?

Because I wouldn't want to just kill a tree for no reason, unless it was trying to kill me.

I'm not sure.

I have my doubts because it's growing against what used to be a pond, which you can't see in the picture because we've filled it in.

No, I can't see the pond in the picture.

We filled it in,

but the wall of the pond is still basically right up against the trunk.

Who filled in the pond?

I think that was both of our decision.

Why did you fill in the pond?

How big was it?

It was pretty big, I would say, what, 10 to 12 feet long.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years, and

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened, And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no.

It's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lom.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

What was in that pond?

A lot of mosquitoes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's a good idea, I guess.

Gotta to keep that water moving.

Yeah, it was also painted.

The concrete was painted blue.

It looks pretty tacky.

How long do you think you're going to live in this house?

It's a great question.

I know.

Ask the good ones.

Chris has said that the only reason he wouldn't want to move is he wouldn't see his plants mature.

That's the only reason

he's staying in this relationship.

I would expect us to be in this house for at least another five years.

Okay.

I mean, until the young people who like to take pictures of themselves make it to Portland.

I mean, it is a consideration because

you guys have proven that you put down shallow roots.

You're able to move when you want.

Five years.

I mean, here's the thing.

Japanese maple may seem like a cliché to Eucharist, but they're very attractive to homebuyers.

They're expensive trees.

You tear that out and you put a third eucalyptus in.

Eucalyptus is a weed.

Sorry, kids.

Come at me, teenagers.

Just a consideration.

Just a consideration.

Sure.

So, all right.

So, Chris, if I were to rule in your favor, what?

Kill the tree?

Relocate the tree?

Give you the option?

I would...

be happy to relocate the tree if someone who knows better came and took a look and said that was possible.

Otherwise,

I would

just cut it down.

And Richard, if I were to rule in your favor, obviously not cut it down.

Right.

Any other restrictions that you would like me to put on Chris in terms of his joking and references to getting rid of the tree?

You know, I can live with those jokes if I'm safe in the knowledge that the tree isn't going anywhere.

Got it.

How does it make you feel when he talks about killing your favorite favorite tree?

It's a little baffling.

We're usually.

Chris is a very cooperative consensus type person, but he is so adamant about this, it's confusing to me.

What do you think is behind it?

I guess he

really feels strongly about his plant aesthetic.

Really strongly.

Chris, Richard said that you're normally a very cooperative person.

Is it the case that you live entirely under Richard's thumb?

That he bosses you around.

No, not at all.

And that this tree is your opportunity to finally throw off

his maniacal control because

you don't know how to operate a screwdriver or whatever, and you need him in every other part of your life.

But when you're in your garden, that's your one place to be alone and in control of your life.

Isn't this what's happening?

Is this the crux?

No, I wouldn't go that far.

No.

How far would you go?

Because when I asked you

if you were a professional gardener, you said you wouldn't go that far.

You only work in a nursery.

Well,

first of all, I do know how to operate a screw gun.

That's not what I hear, sir.

It's not what I hear.

I don't even know what a screw gun is.

Yeah, I don't think that's real either.

Yeah.

For me, it is mostly about the aesthetic.

No, wait a minute.

You're not answering my question.

Who's in control in this relationship?

Is it equal?

Is it more you or is it more Richard?

i you're under fake oath i think it's equal genuinely equal otherwise i would have cut it down already yeah because you care about his feelings right

richard what's a screw gun oh you know it's the no i don't know

i know what a screwdriver is are you talking about i know what a nail gun is it's a cordless screwdriver i mean that's what oh okay some people call it i think i've never heard that in my life but it's probably true i mean the west coast they have different names for everything there strawberries grow on trees.

It's completely upside down land.

All right, this is a difficult one.

I'm going to go into the chambers at the center of my hedge maze, and I'll think it over.

I'll be back in a moment with my decision.

Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Richard, how are you feeling about your chances?

A lot, a lot worse than I was before I started this.

I'm a little concerned.

Why is that?

Just

because of the argument that because Chris does the gardening, that he should get to do whatever he wants in the garden.

That could be problematic for me.

Can you think of any crazy home renovations you could do

if it came to it?

I mean, I guess I could get that pond back.

Chris, how are you feeling about your chances?

I feel slightly more optimistic.

than I did when

we started.

I don't feel quite as villainous, I guess, as

some of our friends have made me out to be.

Chris, who are your top three plant buddies?

Three to one, starting with number three.

First name only, please.

I can't rank them, but I'll choose my three co-workers, Paul, Greg, and Brandon.

Ah, yeah.

That's number three,

Paul.

Number two, Greg.

Number one, Brandon.

We'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a second.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

So, Chris, I couldn't help but overhear from my chambers in the center of my hedge maze

that you felt less like a villain than your and Richard's friends make you out to be.

Well, I'm here to to tell you you're wrong.

You're a straight-up villain

walking around talking about putting copper nails in a tree just to kill it.

You and your plant buddies coming up with tree-killing schemes.

Just for the lulls.

Yeah, just for the lulls.

Trolling your beloved.

with dank tree-killing memes just for

fun.

This is a living thing.

I know you don't like it.

I get it.

And this is a serious consideration

because it speaks to a lot of the settled law

of this podcast.

That people like what they like and people don't like what they don't like.

And if you're out there in that garden and you're seeing that tree every day and you just don't ever want, you just can't.

There are two young people who live in our house that are our children.

And our daughter, when she was very, very little,

you know, was just learning to talk and she was eating food.

And we gave her some broccoli soup.

And she said, I can't like Blockley soup.

And I always think about that because there are just some things you can't like.

It's not even that you don't like.

It's like, I can't like it.

I cannot like this Blockley soup.

You can't like that tree.

And it is, to a certain degree, cruel and unusual punishment to make you tend to it,

given that you dislike it, given that it does not speak to your West Coast aesthetics, given that it sheds its leaves and embodies a change of season, the exact thing that you hoped to escape when you moved west,

given that it stands there, its dead, creepy limbs intersecting and entwining, reminding you that we are all mortal.

That is the great gift of autumn.

Reminding you that it is not always a temperate, beautiful day in Portland, Oregon, but the time moves on and we will eventually die and this tree will outlive you, probably.

That's not something you want to see.

I can see why you don't enjoy it.

The tree will outlive you, and you're mad at it, so you want to kill it first.

I get it.

Richard,

Japanese maples are beautiful, but they're a very specific kind of tree to have.

They really have a very distinct look.

They look like Japanese prints.

They're so entwined, right, with Japanese design and culture.

It makes me feel like in the 80s when I was reading Frank Miller Wolverine comic books and they were always in Japan.

This is an 80s tree.

Right?

You know, it's an 80s tree.

And Portland can't stand that.

Portland wants to be up to date.

That's why Portland looks exactly like it's 2009.

And you're not pruning this thing.

You're not taking care of it.

I honestly feel

that

the settled law of this court has to stand, that the person who is doing this gardening gets to decide.

You mow the lawn, Richard.

And your territory ends at the edge of that lawn.

And by the way, looking at your evidence, you need to get your mower out there a little more often.

And

Chris does the gardening.

He has the interests, the passion, the expertise.

And even though he's got some bad plant buddies begging him on to do bad things,

he has resisted so far because he loves you.

My inclination is to rule in his favor and let him

get rid of this tree.

Except

I cannot order.

This court has no capital punishment.

Cannot order the death

of a living thing that is causing no harm.

Just because someone doesn't like the look of it.

Chris might as well be asking me

to order you to dig up that pond, fill it with water, and throw Casper in there because he's got a bad attitude for a dog and he's tired of him.

That was a dark turn.

No way am I allowing you to put copper nails into this trunk or to just saw it down for no reason.

This is a living thing that causes you no harm.

You are a gardener, sir, not a plant murderer.

Gardeners have to make hard decisions, I realize.

And if the tree were sick, get rid of it.

You know, do what needs to be done.

But it is on you, Chris.

If you do not want to have this tree anymore,

you have to find a home for it.

You have to find out if it can be transplanted, and you have to find someone who will take it.

And then you can put in your junky eucalyptus or whatever.

But if you can't,

then it is your gardener's duty to help it to thrive

and if it is proven that you can't transplant it

then richard you got to get out there and prune that thing come on richard

you got to be part of this just because you're going around hanging up a few hooks doesn't mean you're off the hook for taking care of your favorite tree

I am ruling in Chris's favor with the caveat that he may only transplant the tree if that is possible.

And if that is not possible, the tree must live and thrive.

And Richard, you have to help instead of just observing it from afar.

You guys are in this together and you're adorable together.

So I wish you and Walter and Casper and Dog 3

and beautiful tree and strawberry tree.

And what's the other one you had?

Eucalyptus one and two.

And oh, and all your manzanitas.

May you grow and flourish together.

Unless you can dig out that tree and give it away.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Chris, how do you feel about his decision?

I feel good.

It was a long pause, Chris.

I think it's a good compromise for assuming that we can't transplant the tree.

I think it's a good compromise that Richard needs to do the pruning.

Richard, how do you feel?

I'm a little concerned.

I do think Chris will probably move heaven and earth to make sure that it's transplanted somewhere else.

You think he's ready to go down to the big box store and rent tobacco?

I mean, if that's what it takes.

Chris, are you ready to go to the big box store and rent tobacco?

I'm not quite ready to do that.

No.

Hand tools only?

Richard, Chris, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Another Judge John Hodgman case in the books.

Before we get to Swift Justice, we want to thank Anna Oakley for naming this week's episode Forced Arbitration.

If you'd like to name a future episode, go ahead and like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook.

We put out calls for submissions there.

Follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJ H.

O.

And check out the Maximum Fund subreddit to discuss this week's episode.

That's at at maximumfund.reddit.com.

We're on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman, where you can see some pictures of this beautiful tree and the beautiful dog that likes to rest underneath it.

Make sure to follow us there for evidence and other fun stuff.

Don't forget, it's the Max Fun Drive.

You can go to maximumfund.org/slash donate to become a member of Maximum Fund or upgrade your membership if you're already a member.

And to every single one of you who have done one of those things, our deep and heartfelt thanks.

I also say thank you.

Jen, are you in on this?

Definitely.

Thank you, everyone.

That's three heartfelts, though.

We're not sharing one heart.

Like each of us is heartfelting our thanks.

I only have two-thirds of a heart.

I sold a third of it in my early 20s.

I was just kind of hard up for money.

Sure, no, it happens, of course.

And listen, everyone, within the sound of my voice, if you're selling organs to get by right now, we don't need your money.

Yeah, even partial organs.

Take care of yourself.

This week's episode recorded by Houston Gestalem at Rex Production and Post in Portland, Oregon.

Our editor this week is Hannah Smith.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Now, Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with quick judgment.

Leah says, my husband believes the first drawer in the dresser is the bottom drawer.

Please tell him how wrong he is.

The first drawer is clearly the top drawer.

Wait a minute.

He's saying that the first drawer is the bottom drawer?

Yeah, he's saying first from the ground.

She's saying first from her eye line or the top.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

Sorry, Aaliyah's husband.

Everyone knows.

The bottom drawer is the ground drawer.

The second drawer up is the parlor drawer.

And

the top drawer is the first drawer.

Wait, is this a system that you learned watching British imports on PBS in the late 70s?

I don't mean to brag, but I'm a subscriber to Acorn Video Service.

Watch a lot of upstairs, downstairs.

Honestly, your husband is wrong.

You should stop saying such things.

The top drawer is the top drawer, then middle and then bottom.

That's it.

You don't have to number them, they're not ranked, they're just in a different position.

That's about it for this week's episode.

Submit your cases at maximumfund.org/jjho or email hodgman at maximumfund.org.

No cases too small.

We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

See you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Maximumfund.org.

Comedy and culture.

Artist owned.

Audience supported.