Live From Portland, Oregon 2019

Hello, everyone.

This is your judge, John Hodgman.

Today's episode of the podcast was recorded live in Portland, Oregon, at the Aladdin Theater with our special musical guests, Maskaras.

We had a great time visiting with everyone in Portland.

It's truly one of the most Portland-y shows that we've ever had.

A lot of surprises and a lot of fun.

I think you're going to enjoy it.

So, without further ado, let's go to the stage.

Portland, Oregon, you've come to us desperate for justice and we're here at the Aladdin Theater to deliver it.

Let's bring in our first set of litigants.

Please welcome Jenna and Matthew.

Tonight's case, Brown versus the Horde of Vegetation.

Jenna brings the case against her boyfriend, Matthew.

She says he brings home too much produce from the farmer's market where he works.

She says that the excessive amounts of produce creates too much mess for her.

But Matthew says she enjoys the results of his bounty.

Who's right, who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference.

When your father was a boy like you and living with me here in Norway, I told him about witches too, so that he would always be aware.

Now, the most important thing you should know about real witches is this.

Real witches dress in ordinary clothes and look very much like ordinary women.

They live in ordinary houses and they work in ordinary jobs.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in.

Jenna and Matthew, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God, or whatever.

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he takes his food in powdered form?

I do.

I do.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

You may be seated, Bailiff Jesse Thorne, sometimes a nice nutrient paste.

Okay.

I cover my body in it and absorb it through osmosis.

Sure.

Transdermally.

Yes, exactly so.

Jenna Matthew, welcome.

For an immediate summary, judgment in one of yours favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom.

Jenna, I think you know it.

I think you know it, so I'm going to go to Matthew first.

I'm going to say Roll Dolls Witches.

Okay, Roll Dolls Witches.

Damn it.

That was literally a huge one.

Is that going to be your guess, Jenna?

That's my guess, Your Honor.

Well, you know, you can make the same guess if you wish.

I guess I'm going to stick with it.

That was the only thing that came into my mind when I heard it.

Rolled dolls witches times two.

Might as well make it times three so that I can say grammatically accurately, all guesses are wrong!

Rolled dolls, the witches.

Oh, Matthew, when you started,

right on rolled, I was like, I almost peed myself.

What was I going to do if you had gotten it right?

But luckily.

You would have had to settle in my favor.

If you had gotten it right.

Luckily, you weren't careful.

John, I think the plan was if he got it right, we'd drop the curtain and go collect our check.

Get on a plane to San Francisco.

I didn't think of it this way.

Yeah.

All right, I find in Matthew's favor.

That's the sound of a gavel.

How did you know?

I know why you knew.

Because why?

Because I'm a witch.

Because you're a witch.

A professional witch.

I am.

I'm sorry.

We said we weren't going to make any Portland jokes, man.

I have to be honest with you,

when this case was submitted for my pre-judgment, I was like, extra produce, who cares?

He's doing this and he's doing that.

And by the way, I'm a professional witch.

I'm like, you're in.

Sold, I'll take two.

Are you, sir, a professional witch as well?

No, I work at the produce at the farmer's market one day a week.

Kind of the same thing.

And then I also work for a local handmade goods store and record label.

Fantastic, Matthew.

And so, Jenna, tell me what I understand people

who practice the Wiccan religion, for example.

I'm sure there are all different kinds of people who call themselves witches in different schools of thought, but I've never heard of a professional witch, so could you tell me a little bit more about that, please?

Yes, of course.

So, it really depends on my clients and what they need when they come to me.

But I offer tarot readings,

I do energy

work,

just whatever you need, you know.

Energy work, I work with haunted houses.

I help to clear haunted houses.

Oh, wow.

I hold moon circles and workshops.

I do not know what a moon circle is.

Leave it to your imagination.

So I have, I gather about 13 cents.

Well, I mean, the moon is a circle.

Is that what you're talking about?

I gather 13 or so people.

Maybe a dupe.

Never mind.

Please go ahead.

And we

do, on the new moon or the full moon, and we do some sort of ritual and ceremony to honor that and do some sort of sharing and healing piece usually.

You seem a little vague about what some sort of, I don't know.

I mean, it's different every day.

I mean, you're supposed to be a professional.

Yeah, you gotta.

You know what I mean?

Like, well, we get in a circle and we do something.

I don't know.

I don't know.

Just give me your money.

Happy yet?

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, would you like something very specific?

Yes, specificity is the soul.

So true.

Of course.

So one of my favorite things to do is a chakra clearing, a sound-based chakra clearing using my piano.

And we use the notes that resonate with our chakras

to clear them out.

And what and that makes me feel better?

Oh, yeah, much better.

Well, we leave for San Francisco tomorrow or else I would definitely schedule it.

You can come over later tonight if you want.

We can play the piano.

I'm a little scared.

I'd rather do it at daylight if you don't mind, bitch.

Quick question.

How many haunted houses have you cleared?

Ooh, good question.

I know, I only asked the good ones.

Probably at least a couple dozen.

A couple of dozen?

Ranging in the middle of the city.

And what the heck is going on in Portland?

Do you think it's a more haunted city than others?

No, I don't.

I think that there's probably more haunted places.

Okay, so this is

pretty chill for ghosts.

Yeah, I mean,

they can't afford to live here anymore.

Exactly.

Almost Californian ghosts moving up.

Have you

we're going to get to your case in a minute?

What is it you do again?

I work at the farmer's market.

All right, back to you, Jennifer.

Have you ever cleared, have you ever had a haunted house experience where you just like, I'm too creeped out, there's a bad,

a really bad scary feeling?

Yeah, I've had some very scary houses, yes.

Yeah.

Okay, so actually,

I was featured in a storytelling event a few months ago to tell about one of the most haunted houses I've ever told.

It's like a 15-minute story.

Oh, well,

we don't have

to.

Also, no old material.

Thanks.

Yeah.

So it's really, you know, it's like sometimes you just, the person living there will tell you all the stories of the things they've heard and seen.

And so I go into it ready for that.

And

yeah, sometimes it's just like you go, you know, when you go into a room and you're like, oh God, what's in here?

And it's like your whole spine is.

Every room for me.

Every room I go into, I'm like, now what?

Yeah.

Yeah.

This is a whole new thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

My main worry going into a new room is that I might have to make new friends.

That's kind of what I'm doing too, is I'm making, I'm trying to make friends with these things to help them to leave.

And you know what?

Maybe they don't need new friends.

You know, maybe the entities are like, I'm fine.

Yeah, no, they usually, yeah.

Yeah, they usually kind of want to help have help leaving.

Sometimes I have to.

Swipe left on you, witch.

Is that the good one or the bad one?

Are you a good witch?

Yes.

All right, good.

Good.

Yeah.

All right, now, Matthew, you sling lettuce downtown.

Yeah.

And not even the good kind.

Stone fruit.

Stone fruit?

Yeah.

All right, you're winning now all of a sudden.

Do not expect.

Cherries, peaches, nectarines.

Well, look, you don't need to explain it to me.

I know what a stone fruit is.

No.

I brought you some as evidence.

Let the record show that Matthew is now gesturing to an old-timey doctor's bag

full of stone fruit.

Actually, Actually, a pear?

Alright, he's bringing out individuals.

He's bringing out a Chinese takeout box

that says pear on it, like

he can fool us.

Raisin.

Raisin.

Or grapes, originally.

Sure.

Peach skin.

I think I'm a real stone fruit amateur.

Peach skins?

Grapes originally, now RD superstars.

Apple.

I see.

So this is

all these tiny little craft paper cardboard Chinese style food containers.

Caramel apple.

Caramel apple is not, that's been modified.

It's not a naturally occurring fruit, sir.

Strawberry?

You're running out of time.

Excessive, right?

Well, I have to say, I find the packaging to be a little offensive.

A little offensively excessive.

Yep.

Peach, sure.

Do you want to try?

Wait a minute.

I know what these taste like.

These are drinking.

You have to understand.

Jenna's a witch, okay?

She's bringing me a lot of information I don't have.

You can wrap up your stone fruit in all kinds of fancy boxes, but I know what a peach is.

Which is the best one?

Look, you're the expert.

What's in season?

Let's go.

Well, these are all dried fruit because none of these are in season.

Oh, no, well, no, thank you.

Let the record reflect that Judge Hodgman dumped the dried fruit on the stage

with no small measure of contempt.

Ah

and now he's trying to hand me a little nip bottle of bourbon which is not only a bribe but a spingy bribe.

This is fig-infused bullet bourbon that I dehydrated the figs myself and then infused them into the bourbon.

So this is now we're getting to the crux of the case.

You have an obsession.

Yes.

You are going to the farmer's market.

You are getting stone fruits, which are obviously your passion.

You're bringing a lot back.

back you're dehydrating them so now I feel bad that I threw your dried peaches on the ground I picked out the best ones for you

there's still don't worry there's still a lot in here

I thought you were literally showing me little boxes

Let the record show for the listener at home, Jesse Thorne eats dried peach off the floor.

How is it, Jesse?

How's the mouth feel?

It's really delicious.

Is it seasoned?

Yeah, there's a little cinnamon on there.

Yeah.

All right.

I'll give our mesophonic listeners a nightmare and eat one of them.

You know what I will say, Matthew?

And please forgive me, Jenna, my language, but these are god-damned delicious.

Thank you.

That's really good.

All right, get those boxes back up here.

I thought, I honestly thought, I couldn't understand why you were giving these packages coming out.

I thought I was going to open this up and there would be a peach inside.

And that would have been profoundly wasteful and probably illegal in this city.

I'm going to try one one more.

I'm going to pick peach skins, interesting.

Cantaloupe, interesting.

Caramel apple is not for me.

That's too sweet.

Raisin, I hear those used to be grapes.

And dehydrated strawberry.

Is that what's going on here?

No, pear.

I like pear because that's a more savory.

Try this one.

Okay.

I got a bad one.

That was a little leathery.

Peak skin.

Those are candied.

They might be a little clean.

These are candied.

Yeah, these look like beef jerky.

All right.

Well, we'll resume in about 45 minutes.

Matthew, when you're working at the farmer's market, how much produce do you bring home?

Oh, thank you for getting us back on track, Jesse.

I bring home about 20 to 25 pounds pounds of peaches and then about the same in other produce that I trade for.

Per week?

Per week.

And that, so that's a lot of peaches.

You said 20 to 25 pounds of peaches?

Yes.

And additional items?

Yeah.

So this is the crux of your

dispute, is it not, Jenna?

Could you explain why you think this might maybe be too many peaches?

Okay, yes, Your Honor.

I can't imagine why you would feel that way.

Yeah.

So Matthew works at the farmer's market one day a week last season.

Next season, it's going to be two, so I'm trying to get ahead of this.

Because he brings home about 40 to 50 pounds of produce, and it's because he gets his own.

Specifically stone fruit for dehydration or other stuff as well.

He gets all this stone fruit because he works for the orchard, and then he trades a lot of it to other vendors at the market and brings home carrots and cucumbers and lettuces and

whatever anybody offers him, he says yes to.

He can't say no.

He says yes to everyone and he brings home everything.

Yeah.

Because everyone wants Matthew's stone fruits.

Everyone wants Matthew's stone fruits.

For sure.

Yeah, of course.

And it's all really good food.

It's local, organic.

Yeah.

Yeah, you know, it's like I'm happy that he's bringing home produce.

But it's too much.

It's just too much.

And is it a storage issue?

Is it a waste issue?

Or what's going on?

I would say mostly storage.

There is a little bit of waste, but it's pretty minimal.

But yeah,

we have only so much space in our fridge and on our counters, and it just kind of ends up taking over everything.

And for me, one of the reasons this is such a problem is because I work out of our home and people walk through the home to get to the yeah, but I'll tell you something.

If I

if I were hiring a witch for a chakra clearing or whatever,

and I walked through a kitchen that wasn't laden down with stone fruit,

legitimacy,

And

other drying herbs and spices.

I would be like, maybe I'm not getting my money's worth.

I love the idea of it being beautiful and tidy, but it's really not.

It's just like chaos everywhere.

And not only is there the fresh produce, but then he has these projects because we have to figure out a way to use this produce before it goes bad.

So he's constantly dehydrating and freezing stuff, which is like all this mess, all these dishes and so much processing, so much work.

And he spends so many hours doing it that he doesn't spend any time cleaning up after himself.

Do you ever offer the fruit to your clients

from time to time?

Yeah, if someone comes and I have a you know 25 pounds of peaches, I'll say, You want to take a peach?

Are they ever concerned that you're fattening them up?

She's not that kind of witch.

So,

based on what you showed me, Matthew, you have plain old dehydrated peaches with some cinnamon.

You have candy peach skins.

You have a camera apple something.

There's a lot of different stuff going on.

Explain your dehydration process and what are some of the other projects you have going on.

Well, this is my third year of dehydrating, and I used to just have a small like home dehydrator

on your year three.

It broke down this year.

We have a dehydration pin for you.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

My farmer replaced my small home dehydrator with like a 10 tray stainless steel.

Did you say my farmer?

Yeah.

Can I do a little buzz marketing?

For your personal farmer?

Of course.

So Trevor Baird of Baird Family Orchards, he's been a friend of mine for over a decade.

He's a very popular farmer.

Yeah.

It's here for Baird Baird Family Orchard.

Only we are allowed to get you to cliche for something that you don't know what it is.

Baird Family Orchard says a posse.

I got it.

So he replaced my small plastic dehydrator with a stainless steel 10 tray like industrial dehydrator.

And so to some degree I've just been playing catch-up with that.

Would you consider yourself to be in the dehydration industry?

I haven't gone professional.

It's mostly a cottage industry at this point.

And do you dispute the fact that you're leaving a huge mess behind that is disruptive to your household?

No.

Ah.

Are there any other projects that Matthew has going on that are disruptive?

I mean, what he's arguing is his farmer gave him a super dehydrator, so he's got no choice

but to dehydrate everything in sight.

Yes.

That's basically the situation.

It's almost like he was cursed.

Not by me.

I would not do that.

No, I know.

Trying to lift the curse with his farm.

Exactly.

Trying to lift the curse.

Yeah.

Well, he also freezes some of the fruit.

And so that's, he has to cut it up and put it on a tray to put in the freezer.

And then he takes it out and puts it in bags.

And

those are the main two things he does with the fruit he brings home.

But then there's also all this other stuff that's not fruit.

So it's like,

I don't know,

making meals, which is great.

I mean, what other projects do you have going on?

He does bring home, he doesn't, it's not just produce that he brings home, because he works at this record label and handmade goods store, and he brings home...

A lot of rings, apparently.

A lot of rings.

He brings home a lot of vinyl.

He brings home a lot of like soap samples and just things like that.

Like everything,

anything anybody ever offers to him.

Who cooks in your family?

Both of us.

Both of us.

Do you have anyone else living in your house?

Just our dogs.

Do you cook for the dogs?

Not usually.

What are your dogs' names?

Willoughby and Belladonna.

Oh, wait a minute.

Belladonna, isn't that

a witchy thing, isn't it?

Sorta, yeah.

What is it?

It's a deadly nightshade.

It's not a witchy, tell me.

It's a deadly nightshade.

It's a deadly nightshade.

So it's been used historically

as eye drops to make the irises bigger to make women appear more beautiful.

Oh, really?

Yeah, cool.

But if you like take a lot of it.

Are you rocking some belladonna in your eyes right now?

No, I'm not.

No, all right.

Stay off that stuff.

It's dangerous.

It's a gateway drugged to tomatoes.

Another fruit of the deadly nightshade.

Exactly.

Look.

Look, look.

This guy is adorable.

I know.

Right?

Yeah.

He can't say, you're saying he can't say no

to people offering him stone fruit and vegetables and soap samples.

But the truth is, they can't help themselves.

They just want to give him stuff.

Wouldn't it be rude for him to say, no, my witch of a wife won't let me have

any more soap samples?

To be fair, we're not married.

We're just cohabitating.

Oh,

I do apologize.

I shouldn't have done that.

We know how you feel about that, Your Honor.

No, you know what?

I've given up.

It's great.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.

Alistair Crowley.

So I'm getting a big clap from the side.

Thank you very much.

Do you feel that you have problems saying no when people offer you things from the farmer's market or the goods store?

Well, Jesse brought up waste before, and like part of what I'm doing is I'm taking home those bruised tomatoes, those apples that aren't quite perfect that we can't sell, instead of them just going to compost or being given to my farmers' neighbor's pigs, I get to take them home and turn them into something wonderful that we get to share with our friends and family.

Yeah, but composting and feeding of pigs is also good.

Yeah, when you say turn them into something wonderful, is it more wonderful than bacon?

I just don't understand, Jenna.

I obviously don't want to cross you, but

Matthew's adorable.

He's engaging in a hobby that is not merely productive, but nourishing.

What's the problem?

Yeah, your hat is.

How does this hurt you in some way?

Well, it just creates a lot of work for me.

Okay, tell me more.

So I do the majority of the cleaning in our house.

And

throughout

the season that's non-farmers market, which is basically like November through May or something, it's like a normal amount of cleaning.

I still clean more than he does, but I'm okay with it.

You know, that's the way it is.

Are you?

I mean.

And I don't say that because I think you're lying.

I'm just wondering whether

the distribution of chores is even.

You say you do most of the cleaning.

Does that mean that Matthew is doing most of something else

that needs to be done?

Because let's face it, dehydrating isn't a necessity in the house.

That is a hobby.

But is he pulling his weight in other domestic duties?

I mean, it depends if you're paw from the little house on the prairie boat.

He does

most of the dishes.

But not enough.

I mean, I'm glad he does most of the dishes.

I do dishes too.

She hates dishes.

I do.

I don't like doing dishes.

So when you say you do most of the cleaning, you're talking about throughout the house and everything.

Throughout the house, yes.

Exactly.

And you're cleaning the house by playing a certain tone on the piano?

Yes.

Saging.

I'm being silly.

I hope you are.

But then come farmer's market season, it just

it just like triples because he's just he

I wish you could see how obsessed he is with the dehydrating.

It's like he stays up till 3 in the morning doing it, and then he wakes up early to go to work, and he comes home and dehydrates more.

It's like that's all he's doing.

And so.

Does he spend more time with his dehydrator than his beloved?

Yes.

Your Honor.

And how does that make you feel?

Well,

I miss him when he's busy with his girlfriend, which is what he calls the dehydrator.

Wow.

But you know what?

I don't want to judge.

These are different times.

I've gotten used to the fact that people will cohabitate without getting married.

That's perfectly, maybe you're in some kind of open relationship where

on the one hand he has, you know,

a human life partner, and on the other hand, a girlfriend on the side.

To be fair, I don't call Jenna my girlfriend.

I call her my sweetheart.

So

girlfriend is

open.

Yeah, it was available.

It's an open relationship.

Well, I use labels anyway, right?

Right.

Just to tell you're a different kind of dried fruit apart.

Ah, you got there to fry me.

How does it make you feel when he is staying up all night with his quote-unquote girlfriend?

And what are you doing with it?

Well, I,

you know, I'm...

Cuddling with your poisoned dog.

Yeah, well, that's actually, yeah, I end up taking on a lot more of the dog responsibilities and a lot more of just the housekeeping responsibilities, which is not like my idea of a good time.

Right.

The housekeeping.

I like hanging out with the dogs.

So it's getting out of hand.

It's just getting out of hand here.

What would you have me order if I were to find in your favor?

I would like Matthew to show a little more restraint.

I'm happy for him to bring home produce, but if he's going to be bringing home produce twice a week, I'd like him to limit it to about 20 pounds at a time.

Total per week.

Total per week.

Wait a minute.

20 pounds at a time?

At a time.

So 40 pounds per week?

That's going up from what you already have, isn't it?

No, it's going down a little bit.

You're right.

I should change that.

Maybe more like 15 pounds at a time.

She's not a math witch.

I'm not a math witch.

Think seriously because about what you want ordered because

the fact of the matter is that when someone has a hobby and a passion,

unless there are clear limits that have been established, they will go beyond those limits.

So think about how many pounds of stone fruit you want being brought to your house week after week after week.

And Matthew, what would you have me order if I were defined in your favor?

Well, I'd like maybe some collaboration.

This is something that I love, that Jenna really appreciates.

I'm not just bringing home produce for myself, I also bring home flowers for her, you know, and to be able to have this be an activity that we do together.

25 pounds of flowers.

25 pounds of bruised flowers.

And otherwise we're just getting fed to the pigs.

This could be something that we share and if Jenna was helping me out with the making of the dried fruit, which we do share with our friends and family.

Dude, she's got a job as a witch.

She's busy.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Jenna, are you sad because you don't get to share more of the dehydrating chores?

Do you actively want to be more involved with his girlfriend?

No, Your Honor.

All right.

Stop with that.

This is your thing, Matthew.

What would you have me order?

Same as is now, status quo?

It's bound to change this year anyway.

Part of the reason it was so excessive is that I wasn't working for cash this year at the market.

I was working for produce.

Right.

And so I was getting

the most paid.

You're going to get paid.

I was getting paid, yeah.

Oh, okay.

So do you expect that there's going to be a natural

downturn in your stone fruit hoarding?

Yeah,

my

weekly allotment will be less, so I won't be able to.

How would you imagine that's going to be thing?

Still probably about 30 or 40 pounds.

Jenna, what have you decided is the limit of stone fruit per week?

I think 30 pounds feels reasonable, but

so 15 pounds per week.

Yeah, that's about it.

Would that be a hardship to you, Matthew?

I might have to say no to some other vendors at the market.

And is that hard for you to do?

It is.

Why?

I want everyone to be able to have as much peaches as they can while the season's here.

So they're trying to give you the stone fruit so that you'll go home and dehydrate it and give it back to them.

Is that what's happening?

I do bring dehydrated fruit back for my farmer, but no, for the most part, I'm trading with other folks for berries, for cantaloupe, for

cucumbers.

You just want to spread the joy of dehydrating

fruit.

Yeah, and the fruits of your growth.

And

fresh peaches in general, yes.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going to go to my portable Portland, Oregon chambers.

I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Jenna, how are you feeling about your chances?

I feel pretty good.

I thought going in that it wasn't looking so good because of the fig bourbon and all the yummy treats he brought.

But I'm feeling like John is a little bit, he doesn't want to cross me, like he said.

Matthew, I'm sure there's a wide range of produce at your farmer's market.

Are there satsumas?

You're not going to find much citrus growing up here in the north.

Well, got to go.

How are you feeling about your chances in the case?

I think the evidence will bear me through.

The fruits of my labor are gonna be really appreciated.

Wait, wait, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Tell me again

how much you were bringing home from the farmer's market last season and what it was.

I think the most I ever brought was about 80 pounds of produce.

Now, that's what I call a living wage.

Thanks, folks.

Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and delivers his verdict.

I can't.

I can't.

Can't get up.

I drank this fig bourbon

and I turned into a mouse.

Just kidding, I'm weak.

It's hard.

Hard to stand.

I did have some of that fig bourbon when I was hiding behind my podium and it's very tasty and I have a feeling I'm going to be a very regular tomorrow.

This is a hard one to judge.

You are both tied tied for adorableness.

You clearly love each other, though maybe perhaps one of you's love is divided.

Do you have any inanimate lovers, Jenna?

It's animate.

Yeah,

maybe don't answer.

I mean, she has a lot of close ghost friends, apparently.

Yeah, would you take a ghost lover?

I mean, I'd be open to it.

Yeah.

Look, it's a new age.

Sorry, sorry.

Maybe that's an offensive term.

I don't know.

Didn't mean it.

You know,

Matthew's

hobby, dare I say passion,

is a lovely one.

And I am not someone who enjoys fruit

at all.

But those dried peaches with the cinnamon, that was very nice.

That had a certain savory umami quality that I don't get when I eat a piece of fruit and go, oh God,

why did I do that again?

It's just not for me.

People like what they like.

It's obviously you're engaged

in a barter situation with other people who are working with their hands and trying to

nourish others and make this world better.

And I think that's wonderful.

You're making a huge mess at home, but hey, that's dehydrating.

On the other hand, Jenna

has a point that

if you're leaving a mess that she has to clean up, you know, one of the tenets of this courtroom is that to be mindful of the work that you leave for others.

And she's

She's trying to tell you that you're leaving work for her that she doesn't want to do, and she's gotten to the point where she's got to take you to fake internet courts.

I don't even know that limiting the number of pounds of stone fruit that you can bring home is going to fix that problem, which is the unevenness of distribution of domestic chores, right?

So, I think that's something no matter what I rule, you guys are going to have to talk about and work on.

That's a tough one.

I mean, the only way to really decide this one, obviously, is to throw you both in a lake.

And

whichever one of you drowns wins.

But unfortunately, we don't have a lake nearby.

I think when

your life partner

And I'm talking specifically about Jenna, not your dehydrator.

I think that, you know,

not to be speciesist, but I think that your human life partner has to come before

your

appliance life partner.

And when your human life partner says, this is a little bit too much, can I request a reasonable reduction in the amount of stone fruit?

Can you perhaps be more disciplined and take my

life and needs into account before you take the life and needs of your partners at the farmer's market who are trying to foist all their junk off on you, then you need to listen.

I appreciate that 30 pounds of produce a week is going to be a real step down

from the up to 80 pounds that you've admitted to so far.

In no way do I want to hinder your hobby, but I think you need to do a little bit of mariconda when you bring the tone fruit home

and just enforce a little bit of discipline for a while to try to bring things back into balance.

So I'm going to find in Jenna's favor, this is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules, but

with no prejudice against you, Matthew, like there have been a lot of weird dudes with unusual systems.

that I've found offensive and annoying on the podcast.

You are not one of them.

Well, thank you.

You are a delight, but you need to listen and adjust.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Our thanks to Matt Kerbal for naming this case.

Jenna Matthew, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you very much, you guys.

Thanks, Matthew.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Quince.

Jesse, the reviews are in.

My new super soft hoodie from Quince that I got at the beginning of the summer is indeed super soft.

People cannot stop touching me and going, that is a soft sweatshirt.

And I agree with them.

And it goes so well with my Quince overshirts that I'm wearing right now, my beautiful cotton Piquet overshirts and all the other stuff that I've gotten from Quince.

Why drop a fortune on basics when you don't have to?

Quince has the good stuff.

High quality fabrics, classic fits, lightweight layers for warm weather.

and increasingly chilly leather, all at prices that make sense.

Everything I've ordered from Quince has been nothing but solid, and I will go back there again and buy that stuff with my own money.

John, you know what I got from Quince?

I got this beautiful linen double flap pocket shirt that's sort of like an adventure shirt.

And I also got a merino wool polo shirt.

Oh.

It's like a mid-gray.

Looks good underneath anything, perfect for traveling.

Because with merino wool,

it basically rejects your stink.

You know what I mean?

It's a stink-rejecting technology, John.

It says, get thee behind me, stink.

Yeah, exactly.

And, you know, honestly, even if I do need to wash it, I can just wear it in the shower when I'm traveling and then

roll it in a towel and it's pretty much ready to go.

Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes.

Quince has wonderful clothes for women, men, kids, babies.

They have travel stuff.

They have gifts.

They have quilts and bedspreads.

They've got everything.

Go over there and find out for yourself.

Keep it classic and cool with long-lasting staples from Quince.

Go to quince.com/slash JJHO for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.

That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash JJ HO to get free shipping and 365-day returns.

Quince.com slash JJO.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

You know, as we record this, summertime is waning into fall slowly but surely, but that's all the more reason that's time to get outside and take advantage of the remaining good weather and cook outside.

And as the autumn chill seeps in, maybe you want to huddle around

the reassuring warmth of your made-in carbon steel griddle.

If you've ever been in a commercial kitchen, you notice that not everything is made in pots and pans.

Often there's a large flat top grill where they make burgers and chops and all kinds of other things, maybe some scrambled eggs or what have you.

That flat top grill is what is perfectly replicated by Maiden's carbon steel griddle.

It maximizes both surface area and heat, and it's perfect for use on outdoor grills, fire pits.

And you know what?

If you're already too cold to cook outside, bring it on inside, put it right down on your cooktop, and all of a sudden you're cooking with gas or induction or electric or whatever, just like a pro on your carbon steel flat top griddle from Made In.

That griddle has no coatings, no chemicals.

It seasons over time as you use it for a natural non-stick surface.

It's lighter than cast iron.

It's also more conductive than cast iron, so it heats up faster all the way to 1200

degrees.

Put it wherever you want.

Open flame on your stovetop,

whatever you like, and get to smashing those smash burgers or cooking those breakfasts.

And that's true what I said.

It works on induction cooktops.

A lot of people were wondering: does it work on induction cooktops?

It sure does.

I love the made-in family of products, and this is, I have a carbon steel griddle, and I love using it.

For full details, visit maidencookwear.com.

That's m-a-d-e-i-n.com.

Made in.

Let them know that Judge Sean Hodgman sent you.

Portland, John, it's a land of wonders where it truly is.

Where men can be paid in fruit and

earrings can be hair extensions.

Speaking of the wonders of Portland, Jesse Thorne, we have here one of the great bands of Portland, Oregon.

Would you please introduce them as they play the first of two songs they will play tonight?

Ladies and and gentlemen, please welcome to the stage Portland's own Mascaras.

Mascaras.

I'm Emily Fleming.

I'm Jordan Morris.

And I'm Matt Lee.

We are real comedy writers.

Real friends.

And real cheapskates.

On every episode of our podcast, Free with Ads, we ask, why pay for expensive streaming services when you can get free movies from apps with weird names?

Each week, we review the freest movies the internet has to offer.

Classics like Pride and Prejudice.

Cult classics like Point Break.

And holy sh, what did I just watch?

Classics like Teen Witch.

Tune in every week as we take a deep dive into the internet's bargain bin.

Every Tuesday on maximumfun.org or your favorite pod plays.

The Flop House is a podcast where we watch a bad movie and then we talk about it.

Robert Shaw in Jaws, and they're trying to figure out how to get rid of the ghouls, and he scratches his nails and goes, I'll get you a ghoulie.

He's just standing above the toilet with a heartbreak.

No, I'm just looking forward to you going through the other ways in which Wild Wild West is historically inaccurate.

You know how much movies cost nowadays when you add in your popped corn and your bagel bites and your cheese critters?

You can't go wrong with it.

Here at Henry Camill Mustache is the only supplier.

The Flop House.

New episodes every Saturday.

Find it at maximumfun.org.

Judge Hodgman, we have some friends in the house tonight.

Yes.

They just happen to be here in Portland.

We're so thrilled to have them with us.

Maybe we should bring them on stage with us.

Please.

They're the hosts of the Smash Hit MaximumFund.org podcast, Oh No, Ross and Carrie.

Please welcome Carrie Poppy and Ross Walker.

Welcome, welcome.

It's good floor food, isn't it, Ross?

Now, for those of you not familiar with Ross and Carrie, they have a podcast called Ono, Ross, and Carrie, where they investigate claims of the paranormal and the fringe scientific and spirituality and so forth.

So I gotta ask, did you meet the witch backstage?

We did.

We didn't know at the time though.

She's wonderful.

Yeah, she was great, right?

Yeah.

So you didn't go, fraud!

Right.

Because you're nice people.

Yeah, it's not their move.

No, it's not your move.

Okay, good.

But

there wasn't any friction backstage.

No, we love witches.

All right.

I will suffer a witch to live.

And let the record show that Ross will also eat dried peaches off the floor.

I saw that coming.

You guys just did a live show here in Portland.

And for every one of your shows, you often will embark upon some unusual activity,

whether it's going through an unusual healing ritual or joining an unusual religion or

taking ayahuasca and Costa Rica.

What did you undertake for this program that you did in Portland?

Well, we didn't even realize that we were doing a very maximum fun thing, but we ordered haunted dolls on eBay.

And then Ross mentioned it to a friend who was like, you know that's a McElroy's thing, right?

We're like, no, we just ordered haunted dolls.

Like you do.

Yeah.

It's just SOP.

Yeah.

So we let them haunt us for a couple weeks.

We took them on our planes to see if the planes would go down.

You know.

Not a responsible experiment.

What's the worst that could happen?

Yeah, turned out fine.

What's the worst that could happen?

Not very fair to your fellow travelers.

Look,

I am also a skeptic, but if that haunted doll wanted to take down a plane and you brought it on, that would be on you.

If curses were real, it would not have been fair.

John, with the state of airline travel, the airlines probably brought the airplanes on eBay.

So we have more justice to dispense without a whole lot of time to do it.

So now we're going to move and you're going to help us, Ross and Carrie, with our segment called Swift Justice.

We're going to hear three cases in swift succession.

Jesse, put a timer on.

Okay, I'm going to put 15 minutes on the clock.

It's a Jung Hans, the clock.

That only gives us five minutes per case are you are you guys ready for this challenge we can do it I'm looking out at this crowd I feel like Portland needs justice am I mistaken

then let's get it going please welcome to the stage Matt and Kay

Matt and Kay oh wait a minute

I know you guys

so you you are friends of the podcast you're wearing a judge Sean Hodgman t-shirt Matt you have been litigants on the show many years ago regarding what is it, taking out the trash?

And what did I order then?

Because I don't remember.

You have to remember by the law.

Yeah, you gave us a framework for how to switch off the chore of putting in a new bag.

Okay, what was the problem?

He wasn't taking the trash out.

If I had things in my hand while cooking,

I asked him to take the trash out, and if he did not take it out, I was staring at things in my hand while cooking.

Like, you're talking about foods.

Yeah.

Like stone foods.

Like chicken skins and bones and things.

Right, I got you.

Did that tempt you to just like walk around with oranges all day?

I did.

So

this is a new dispute that you've had.

Obviously we did not solve all of your problems.

So who brings this case before this court?

I guess I do.

State the nature of the dispute, Matt.

Okay, so we are just on vacation and we're with our daughter, 13 year old, and we are playing a little card game.

And I learned it from her and her friends a few years ago.

What was the name of the card game?

Tarot cards?

King's Corner?

King's Corner.

It's kind of like a four multiplayer solitaire kind of game.

Okay.

I loved it so I hadn't played it in two years.

I've been playing on my phone for off and on.

And so we start playing it and I'm like, something's wrong.

Like, we're not, this doesn't seem right.

The rules don't seem correct.

You're playing with your daughter, and she's playing by different rules than the ones you are familiar with.

And you're angry about it, but you don't even remember the name of the game.

No, it was, yeah.

Right, yeah, don't dispute it.

You forgot it right in front of us.

I believe my lying eyes.

So, Kay, what's the problem?

I think the problem is you wouldn't want to let it go.

So, 13-year-old asks you.

So, 13-year-old asks you to play a game with her.

Sure.

You usually say yes.

And then if she...

When a 13-year-old girl asks me to play a game, I usually say no.

Probably a good call.

And she starts playing by the rules they play at her her school.

Okay.

So I said, okay.

How are the rules different at her school versus what Matt plays on his phone alone late at night?

It had something to do with if you could draw a card at the end or the beginning.

I don't remember.

Was that a major rule difference or a minor rule difference?

I felt it was a minor rule difference.

But Matt was just going, oh, major.

You draw a new card on each turn, so it's like new.

Otherwise, you're just sitting there with the three bum cards you got.

So, look, I don't care about this game, and I don't want to know how to play it.

I'm sorry I ever asked you.

There seems to be a legitimate difference of opinion as to how major the rule difference is.

You seem to believe, Matt, that it affects the outcome of the play.

But even so, it's your daughter.

Why don't you just play the way she plays with her friends?

What's the problem?

It was fine.

I played like three or four hands, and then the who's dealer moves around, and when it got to me, I said, I told you I don't care how this game is played.

I asked you a simple question:

You want your daughter to play by the rules that you call official, and she doesn't.

Why, what's the problem if she just plays the way she wants to play?

Why don't you play by her rules?

I mean, the crux of the disagreement was like, can I decide?

I'll decide the crux, man.

The crux finder.

All right, I'll give it up.

It's fine to play by kid rules for a while, but after, you know, a few hours of it, it was getting a little boring.

And, like, the more exciting rules just make it a little spicier.

Okay, you want to say something?

Okay, first of all, before I bring the hammer down.

It was maybe three or four hands.

And when it got to him, he played as if it were poker.

And he's like, oh, dealer's rules.

I was like, this is not poker.

We do not change rules in the middle of the game.

So he changed, and was, and, you know,

was your daughter confused, upset, hurt?

Or did she not care?

Because her dad is weird, like all dads.

Probably the third.

More that.

Was this a head-to-head game, or were there other teenagers teenagers involved?

No, just the three of us, because we were out on

your vacation.

Yeah.

So, what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favorite game?

All I ask is: if your 13-year-old daughter asks you to play a game, you play by her rules.

If he had asked us to play his game, we'd play by his rules.

And, Matt, how would you want me to rule if I were to order your favorite?

If the dealer wants to try something new, that it's okay.

Just say what you want.

Your house, your rules.

Well, you know, look, I am,

is this your only child?

This is our only child.

Yeah.

Well, first of all,

have fun raising a monster.

Oh, yes.

Speaking as an only child monster myself.

Only children are known for comfortably negotiating interpersonal conflicts these days.

Ross and or Carrie, do you have a thought about this dispute?

Well, this reminds me of one of those arguments where people are debating over who the eighth president was or something.

It's easily resolved.

You can go online and look up the official rules.

Maybe that's not the question, though.

In which case, if there's alternate rules, just alternate between games.

Well, I don't think there's any doubt about the official rules.

I'm sure that Matt knows the official rules.

His

ability

to go to his daughter's school, that's where the rules were established.

I'm 100% with Matt.

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah.

The rules are the rules.

And half the fun of playing the game is being constrained by the rules and learning to be creative within them.

Oh man.

Her rules, your daughter's rules, do they end up in a fun game?

Does it ruin the dynamics of the game?

Just the dynamics of the family.

I think we heard.

It's insufficiently spicy.

Wait a second.

Do you lose regularly under her rules?

I mean, it's just a game of chance.

Okay, so it's not personal.

Yeah.

No, you just believe in rules and that they should be followed.

Yeah, I mean, this daughter can rename the game if she wants to play a different game with different rules.

You know, you had really convinced me there, Carrie, but now you're starting to spin out of control.

I mean if the game is war, now you call it Carrie's war.

That's a good example.

Well hey, it's like it's like chess where there's alternate starts, you flip the pieces around, just because you've done the regular rules, you're going to try something new and interesting.

I think you can mastess.

All of us like you, Ross, have totally mastered chess.

Oh, this one again.

Let's play it underwater now.

All right, here's what I'm going to say.

I very much appreciate your insight, you guys, because I was really about to bring the hammer down on Matt for being a controlling dad.

Don't applaud yet.

For being a dad

who is not only a stickler

for the rules, but also trying to hold on and control this child who is very rapidly not being a child anymore and is going to start making rules of her own no matter what you say, Dad.

But on the other hand, I think Carrie is kind of right, which is the fact that you need to know the rules before you can break them.

I think as long as she knows what the real rules of the game are, then she can break them.

And if you're confident that she knows one game, you get one game under the regular rules, and then after that, it's time to let go, Dad.

This is the sound of a gabble on you.

Matt, also,

Hang on, hang on.

One other thing.

You need to play what Carrie said to your daughter.

That was a very succinct state.

Your first statement was very succinct.

Your second one was unhinged.

No, no, right.

Renaming it Carrie's War.

Okay, got it.

Right.

Play the initial statement for your daughter because I think it's a very important, I think it's a true lesson in life.

And then she'll fall in love with Carrie.

And then play the second statement, and then everything will be unsure in her life for the rest of her life.

All of her faith will be shaken.

All right, thank you very much, you guys.

Matt and Kay, please welcome to the stage Beth and Kim.

Beth

and Kim,

welcome to the Court of Judge Sean Hodgman.

Who brings this case before me seeking justice?

I do.

And you are

Kim,

state the nature of the dispute.

So Beth and I have been, she's been one of my best friends for more than 30 years.

One of your best best friends.

I got it.

Where did she fall in?

Where did she fall in the pecking order?

Second, third,

top four.

Top four.

Let the record show.

I've got.

Let the record show that Beth was very surprised to hear that.

There are two others in the audience tonight.

I didn't know you were demoting, Beth, but.

She's not demoted.

I didn't rank.

What's that?

I didn't rank.

Until now.

No.

Beth, where would you have thought you fell

if you hadn't heard this?

Oh, where would I put myself?

Yeah.

I mean, it's...

Top five.

So I feel like I kind of moved up.

Oh, you moved up?

Oh, well done.

Yeah.

Now, we...

So what is the nature of the dispute?

She's one of your

top four friends.

And we've been having slumber parties since we were like 12.

Delightful.

Oh, wow.

Very old friends.

Fantastic.

Yes.

Yeah.

And

I accept in our group that my existence is to provide comedic material for Beth.

She makes fun of me in my waking life most of the time, and that's okay.

She makes fun of you.

Oh, that's not the act of a top four best friend.

No, it's okay.

What does she do?

She bullies you?

I mean...

She's really funny.

She has great jokes.

They're just...

Just at your expense.

What is she, like, what kind of...

I mean, I know...

We'll get to the point of the case, but

what other kinds of ways does she make you comedic material for her?

There's so many, I can't even.

All right, then let's get to the specific dispute

at the core of this case.

Okay, so when I'm asleep, I would like her to not make fun of me then and take horrible pictures of me.

Beth,

do you take pictures of Kim while she's asleep?

I do.

But not when she's sleeping in a bed like a normal person.

I take pictures of her, well I take pictures with her while she's sleeping in common areas or public places.

So

first of all,

you're grown women having slumber parties, which is the greatest thing in the world.

Oh yeah.

In Palm Springs.

In Palm Springs.

How many people go to the slumber party?

Eight, seven, or eight.

All right.

Sometimes it gets top seven.

Yeah, right?

Yeah.

It's eight until Kim falls asleep.

And Kim falls asleep early at these slumber parties.

And then it's the funniest thing in the world to get next to her on the couch and take pictures of her while she's sleeping and then post them all over social media.

Nope.

No, I don't post them on social media.

I don't share them with anyone except the immediate group, but usually I just hold on to them and send them to her throughout the year.

Let the record show that Kim is smiling.

She doesn't seem sad or violated.

Although perhaps over the many, many years of your so-called friendship, Kim has been basically groomed into accepting her abuse.

Yeah, a little sad.

You would like for this behavior to stop, Kim, is that correct?

I just, when I'm vulnerable, I would like to be safe with my friends.

Right, when you're at your most vulnerable in your life, when you're asleep and trusting your body to

the good nature of the world, hoping that a predator won't come and eat you or take a selfie with you, you would like to feel safe.

Okay.

Ross, Carrie, do you have a thought on this one?

I think back to first aid training, where you're told, you know, if somebody is choking and they look like they need help, you can say, hey, I'm trained in first aid.

Can I help you out?

And they can like shake their head no or say no.

But if they lose consciousness, it becomes implied consent.

Thank you, Ross.

Now,

you thought I was going in your favor, but I gotta say, I don't think that works with photos.

I think, in advance, you can say, in this situation, I do not want my photo taken.

Yeah, falling asleep is not a life-threatening situation.

I do like the scenario, I don't know what first aid training you're going to, where someone's choking and you go, Do you need help?

Can I help you?

And they go, No, no, no, no.

No, no, hands off, no,

no, Heimlich, no, Heimlich.

Don't touch here, I don't like it.

Also, just FYI, there's a lot of situations where falling asleep is not consent.

Just

putting it out there.

Right.

But Carrie, we're talking about life-saving first aid here.

Right, right.

I didn't think of it that way.

I feel like there's something very intimate about photography itself that is skeeving you out.

So I feel like if you could just like sketch it and stuff.

That would be impressive.

Yeah, what is the concern with the photography?

If she's not sharing it publicly, she's just sending it to you.

How does it make you feel?

I mean, I will admit there is certainly a vanity issue there of I'm pretty purely about what.

It's not beautiful.

When my mouth is open.

I'm hard to post them everywhere.

Yeah, when my mouth is hanging open.

It's beautiful I'll be when I'm dead.

That's actually exactly.

We have a photo where my mouth is hanging open, I look dead, and all my friends are posing around me.

It's not just me, Your Honor.

It's not just me.

It's your whole friend group.

They're in on it.

Oh, they're all in here.

Yeah, they're here.

Some of the other top stories.

So it's a matter of vanity.

And what else?

How else does it make you feel?

I mean, there is an element of like,

I like being in on the joke when I'm awake.

I don't like not being in on the joke.

We have a rule in this courtroom.

If it's not fun for everyone, it's not fun at all.

And I don't care how much Kim smiles because you have gaslit her over many years into believing that this was okay, but she's telling you, no, thank you, and you're going to say, I understand, I will never do it again.

This is a salmon gabble.

please welcome to the stage Renee and Ryan Renee

and Ryan

who brings this case before me seeking justice I do I'm Renee hi Renee how are you I'm so excited to be here please state the nature of your dispute

this is my coworker Ryan how do you do Ryan where do you guys work I do well we work at an I'll edit that out Okay, cool.

I've been trying to be friends with Ryan for a while.

We do a segment from an unnamed podcast that has really great guests on it called Snacker Whack.

And I've been trying to make him be my buddy.

He's in the podcast.

He knows the Doughboys.

Yay!

And so one day he was talking, and he mentioned that his neighbor that he lives next to has mistakenly started calling Ryan Carl.

and Ryan hasn't

and Ryan hasn't corrected him and they've lived there for over three years

and I said Ryan

we gotta fix that

and now we're here

and I have bullet points if I need them for time let me see the bullet points oh sure enter these into the evidence they're not well written.

Let their record reflect that Renee is prepared with both bullet points and a flask.

It's my phone.

Oh, okay.

I think it is up to Ryan to correct it.

These are the bullet points that are on this index card.

I'm dyslexic, so my handwriting is really bad.

I really...

It's perfect.

I think it's up to Ryan to correct it.

His son looks like Ryan.

This is the neighbor's son?

No.

This is my son.

Your son looks like Ryan.

Oh, like you.

Yes.

Right.

What it was.

Not unusual.

Not unusual.

That's nothing to be worried about.

Your son is not your doppelganger.

He will eventually replace you and you will go dead.

I'm aware.

I've read Greek mythology.

It's altering how they.

Yeah, I really shorthanded it.

So I feel like it's adjusting how he lives his life.

He recently mentioned that they were, now that they have a baby, because the baby's not three and a half years old, they were going to do a Christmas card that just said like from the East Dumps so he didn't have to put his correct first name in it

is that like is it possible to gaslight yourself

And the second thing that I feel like it's adjusting is he also mentioned how now that he has this beautiful baby, Ryan also has a beautiful wife that's here in the front row.

Hello.

That she was out walking the baby and the neighbor was like, oh my god, the baby's beautiful.

It looks just like Carl.

Yeah.

And so I feel like Ryan's making his wife cover for him, too.

But that's not my family, so I don't know.

Did you explain that this is Carl Jr.

And hand him a hamburger?

Or known as Hardy's East of the Rockies.

What is your relationship with the neighbor?

How often does this come up?

Like you live in separate freestanding homes next to each other?

We both have corner lots, so we're across the street from each other.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

And who is this guy?

Do you know his name?

Charlie.

Charlie.

Charlie.

And is he, how did he start?

Why does he think your name is Carl?

I mean,

it was a mistake, and it wasn't my responsibility to correct his name.

It's not a mistake.

Okay.

To randomly call someone by a name that is not theirs.

Like, it's not, if I go up to a stranger and go, hi there, you're Carl now.

That's not a mistake.

Charlie is the farthest thing from an autocratic neighbor.

He's not giving me that name.

He's not bullying me.

But at the same time, do you know your neighbors' names?

Yes, I do.

And if a name is...

Carl.

Carlo.

Desperately trying to remember it right now.

Marshall and Elizabeth, I'm pretty sure.

Thank you.

And that is exactly what happened with Charlie and myself.

We met when we moved in.

No, it isn't.

I met my neighbors and I remembered their names correctly.

And I introduced myself as Ryan.

Right, and so how did he come to think you're Carl?

I saw him the very next day at the grocery store in the produce section, trying to pick out some zucchini, mad crowd.

I just wanted to get out of there and we both saw each other.

We locked eyes.

We wanted to do the awkward like.

Uh-huh, go on.

I wasn't confident in his name, and I said, good to see you, Charlie, and I guessed right.

He said, good to see you, Carl, and I bagged my groceries and got out of there.

You're trying to foist this off on this crazy zucchini scene.

It's so wild.

Oh, the zucchini, zucchini crowd.

So, I'm being swept away.

I'm sorry.

You had your chance.

Why didn't you believe in yourself and say, oh, I'm sorry, you've made a mistake.

My name is Ryan.

I don't know who Carl is, you creep.

So that was three years ago?

Three and a half.

Ish.

Ross and Carrie, do you have something you'd like to ask?

Because I am speechless.

Yeah, this one's easy.

So, I mean, it's ridiculous to ask someone, it's ridiculous to pretend your name is what it isn't.

So legally change your name to Carl.

I just want to say I offer that as an option.

It's $500 in the state of California.

You have to put an ad in the paper and then you have to wait six months.

I've done it.

People don't just give you the last name Poppy.

You got to work for it.

So yeah.

Just a little bureaucracy.

That's, yeah.

I think the other option, though, not as good, is to start putting Ryan on your holiday cards.

And then if he brings it up, you can say, oh, Carl's my middle name or Carl's a name my family's always called me by

I go by both let the record show that Carl is pointing at Carrie now

as if to say you're right Carl is a legitimate family name my mother's name is Carla and she was named after sickeningly her great-grandfather Carl

I knew that he sensed it in my aura

I failed to see oh wait a minute do you hear that Carrie oh yeah yeah I I got the reference.

He sensed it in his aura.

Right, right, right, right, right.

I failed to see.

It's a reference to the kind of work that we do.

Right.

Yeah.

I don't see the problem here.

I mean, you can go by any name you want.

If he wants to,

maybe that's just his nickname for Ryan, is it?

I also agree, though.

Send the family card and have Ryan on there and just see what happens.

Does he notice?

Does he bring it up in conversation?

Maybe he'll be embarrassed and say, I'm sorry, I've been calling you the wrong wrong name all this time.

Or he just keeps calling you Carl, which is hilarious.

What is wrong with everyone on earth?

What's your name again?

I don't remember.

I'm going to call you

Jenny.

Perfect.

Good.

Jenny, why do you care?

Yeah,

that's a really good point.

You have no standing here.

You're not.

I really do.

He doesn't want to stand up for himself.

He wants to suffer under erasure of his own identity.

That's his biz.

Yeah, I his biz,

you're right.

I fully, I fully accept that I am kind of putting my nose where it doesn't belong.

I think I'm just like really eager to try to like be buddies.

I enjoy talking to Ryan at work, we've been trying to hang out after work, but I'll say, like, my bigger concern is it seems like it causes him stress.

Um, and I don't feel like he has a good exit strategy, which is waiting for the neighbor to move.

And I just feel like or die or die.

How old is he?

60s.

Let the records show that Ryan slash Carl goes in his 60s and he kind of made one of these like, so you know,

why not?

He is in impeccable shape.

I'm sure he, well, with one small exception.

His mind may be going.

He's mistaking you for Carl from his past.

I also care because I've offered to to try to help.

I've like said I'd send him mail to the neighbor, but addressed to Ryan, or like I'd go over, I'm like trying to stink my way into being buds and like, let's hang out.

And I'll just knock on Charlie's door and be like, is this Ryan?

Oh, wrong address.

Like, I've tried to offer solutions.

And instead, he's like in this very weird logic, which I think is half of our fight, where he's like, it's not my mistake to fix.

All right.

I have a question.

Renee, do you ever interact with the neighbor when Ryan's not there?

This is the first time Ryan and I have hung out outside of work.

Oh, all right.

Well, A, I don't see why this is bothering you, but B,

if you do interact with the neighbor, that would be your opportunity to bring up Ryan in conversation.

And then you have full right to say, who's Carl?

Oh, you mean Ryan?

Yeah, I'm happy to be that.

So get more involved in Ryan's life.

You don't ever see the neighbor when you're lurking outside of

house.

This is a pickle.

And even though you have no standing, this Jenny, or whatever you call yourself,

you're right to bring this

before my court because you are a victim, sir, of injustice.

And you have allowed yourself to be a victim of injustice.

And what's more, by not

taking the opportunity back in...

Zucchini mob

to stand up for yourself and explain a a very simple misunderstanding.

Actually, not so simple, because I don't know where this guy's getting Carl in the first place, but

a completely dismissible misunderstanding, you've allowed it to compound and compound and compound.

And probably because you're a nice person, it's not merely that you hate yourself, it's that you don't want to cause Charlie embarrassment by revealing that he's been calling you by the wrong name for all these years.

But here's the thing: sometimes you have to say hard things.

To do these tricks, it's not good enough.

Tricks.

Tricks.

Trickery.

How dare you.

Sending mail,

you getting involved to say Ryan, and then Charlie goes home and goes, oh, I've been doing the wrong thing all these years.

I feel so terrible.

And I'll live in shame.

And then maybe it's turnabouts fair play because he'll now live for three years in the shame that you felt for three years.

No, you have to just say to him, look, this is very embarrassing, but you got my name wrong, and I like you, and you're my neighbor, and I want you to know that my name is Ryan.

Right?

Why not?

I didn't.

I did not choose my own name.

I have.

Do you have his telephone number?

I do.

His number?

Yeah, Charlie's number.

I maybe had a friend do some digging, and I'm like 80% sure I have Charlie's number.

Ryan,

I'm going to do this for you.

John?

Prepare it.

Yes.

What?

I have a phone.

No, she has a phone.

Oh, oh, good.

Good.

Thank you, Carrie.

I just thought maybe like no one else here had a phone.

Usually they're connected to your wall at home.

It's hard to bring them here.

I have genuinely forgotten your name at this point.

It's over there.

Renee Renee, thank you very much.

All right, see?

There's no shame.

I'm a dumb-dumb.

I have to ask people their name five times before I remember.

I would have to say, Renee, Renee, Renee, Renee, Renee, would you please?

We're not going to call this guy because that's unfair, but we're going to text him.

Ms.

Renee, take a text.

I'm also 90% sure he has a Nokia candy bar phone, so I'm not 100% certain he can get texts.

Well, Renee is only 80% sure this is even the right guy.

That's very true.

You do the witch man.

I like how Renee is pretending to write it like it's not in her drafts.

Renee, are you ready?

Yes.

Time is of the essence.

I'm ready.

Would you like this to come from you or from me?

You.

Okay.

Thank you.

Dear Charlie,

you do not know me.

My name is Judge John Hodgman.

Do you have it, Renee?

Do you have it?

I am a friend

of a friend

of Ryan's.

You do know Ryan.

Unfortunately,

due to a misunderstanding at the zucchini

aisle.

Z-U-C-C-H-I-N-I.

Autocorrect really helps me there.

Thank you, though.

I do appreciate that.

Some years ago,

you very innocently got the impression that Ryan's name was Carl.

Yes, I am talking about your beloved neighbor.

How do you spell Carl?

Yeah, K or C?

It's a C.

In order to spare you the embarrassment of correcting you,

He has also

lived in embarrassment.

I like how she reached the character limit and she's still typing.

It's not sending a tweet.

Text you can write on and on and on and on and on.

This is really the new literature.

Where was I?

Unfortunately.

Where was I, Miss Renee?

You have it?

I've also lived in embarrassment for three years, unfortunately.

Okay, strike that last, unfortunately.

Okay.

Ryan, for such is his name,

thinks highly of you and enjoys being your neighbor.

It is time for the truth to out.

Please accept his apology

for not explaining this earlier.

to the tune of three and a half years ago

He hopes very much that you will forgive him and thus begin a new chapter

in the nade button.

If you have any

questions

or concerns, feel free to contact me, John Hodgman.

My number is.

Yeah, I trust you.

Jennifer Marmer, do not put that on the podcast.

Bleep at the last part.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hyden rules that is all.

Renee and Ryan.

Did you hit send?

Hit send.

Hit send.

Thank you so much.

Thanks, guys.

Carl, Jenny, come back anytime.

Our thanks also to our friends from MaximumFund.org, the hosts of Ono, Ross, and Carrie, Ross and Carl.

There you have it.

Another cases in the books.

Number of cases, actually.

Thank you to all the litigants who shared their cases with us and all the people of Portland who came out to the Aladdin Theater and all the people of the Aladdin Theater who had to be there because it's their job.

Special thanks again to Ross and Carrie for joining us on stage at the Aladdin.

Please check out their podcast, Oh Know Ross and Carrie, as I do every week on maximumfund.org.

And a huge, huge thanks to the incredible powerhouse trio, Mascaras.

You can find them online, and I encourage you to do so at mascaras.bandcamp.com.

How do you spell mascaras?

Spell it like mascaras, like multiple mascara, mascaras, and mascaris.bandcamp.com.

That's how you find them.

The show was recorded by Matthew Barnhart.

Thank you, Barney.

Our producer, as always, is the wonderful Jennifer Marmer.

Look, I can't see you.

This is a podcast.

I mean, I recognized your validity as a human being.

I do that every time, and I'm glad you're here.

Nonetheless, it is a somewhat strange convention, but we do it anyway for me to say, see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Maximumfun.org.

Comedy and culture.

Artist-owned.

Listener-supported.