Live From Seattle 2019

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, we're live on stage from Seattle, Washington, in the beautiful Neptune Theater.

Let's listen.

We sent out a call for disputes, and you answered.

We're thrilled to bring you some live justice, Seattle style.

That means

that means with tossed salad and scrambled scrambled eggs.

Shall we get into it?

Let's bring out our first set of litigants.

Please welcome Andy and Avi to the stage.

Tonight's case, may it placebo the court.

Andy brings the case against his friend Avi.

Avi participates in clinical trials through the Cancer Research Center where he works.

Andy is worried about Avi's health and says he should stop being part of these trials.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference.

When you're a mother-to-be,

the sea of life is often stormy.

You can smooth that sea with podcasts.

Safe, effective, soothing podcasts for anyone, anytime that storm clouds threaten.

Podcasts.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear them in.

Andy and Avi, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God or whatever?

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he became a super soldier through a secret government program?

I do.

Very well.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Andy and Avi may be seated for an immediate summary judgment.

In one of yours favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I half-quoted.

The podcast was not in the original quote.

But the rest of it should be very plain to you where that came from.

Why don't, Andy, you guess first?

I'd like to guess the movie Mary and Martha from 2013.

Mary and Martha from 2013.

I like it when people come with a guess, then close their ears when John is talking.

Or have no idea.

I don't want to tip this, but I've never heard of that movie.

But nonetheless.

Did you direct that movie?

No, it's a movie about two mothers who are united in their common bond because their sons die of malaria.

Ah, which is

another emotional roller coaster of a sentence.

As the context for that comment has not yet been revealed.

It's true.

Mary and Martha, 2013, feel-good film about malaria.

John, it's all just grist for the comedy mill.

All right, Avi, what is your guess?

My guess is a tonic water commercial.

A tonic water commercial because of the malaria theme.

I get it.

Tonic water famously contains quinine,

which was a deterrent to malaria.

And still is, presumably.

I don't know.

I don't know about that.

I drink it with gin.

All right.

Let me see.

So quinine tonic commercial or Mary and Martha 2013.

And the answer is Mary and Martha, 2013 film.

Incredible.

No, all guesses are wrong.

The quote, of course, was from the David Crotenberg film Scanners.

Instead of podcasts, The word that was being said was ephemerol.

Ephemerol, which was a drug that was administered, a fictional drug, a fictional anxiety-soothing drug that was administered as a trial to pregnant women, and that caused them to have telekinetic babies that could make your heads explode.

David Cronenberg body horror film.

And, you know, Avi, you are someone who is into clinical trials, and I'm thinking you might be a scanner.

Is that so?

That is not.

Are you a scanner, sir, or not?

Not.

No, okay.

Andy, you bring the case.

Why don't you tell me what the beef is here?

Avi and I have been friends for a long time.

We've been reunited here in Seattle.

He moved here a couple years ago to work at a cancer institute in the city.

And one of the...

Are you a physician or a medical professional or a?

A PhD.

A PhD?

Research scientist.

A PhD in art history.

Very good.

Frequently at his place of work, they advertise for

requesting participants for clinical trials.

And he has signed up for a number of these clinical trials.

I see.

The most significant of one involved a vaccine for malaria.

Right.

And what ended up happening, Avi?

I got malaria.

Yeah.

I will say though, it was a subclinical level of malaria.

So typically if somebody gets malaria...

Is that what you said?

Just a little bit of malaria.

Is that what you said when you went on dates?

Just stop, don't worry.

It's just subclinical.

It's all right.

So subclinical meaning what?

Meaning there's fewer parasites than are typically able to be detected by a normal test.

That if somebody in an endemic region got malaria, they would go to the doctor, get tested.

It would be a certain parasitic burden.

Right.

So your parasitic burden was fairly light.

Yes.

That's not reassuring.

What kind of symptoms did you suffer from your very light parasitic burden, if any?

Zero.

Zero.

So you very technically had malaria, but it was no.

But the mosquito bites had symptoms.

The mosquito bites had symptoms?

Tell me more.

Itchiness?

Yeah, redness?

So the way they administer the vaccine is by having thousands of mosquitoes.

Hundreds.

Hundreds of mosquitoes bite you.

Oh.

Quick question.

Why?

There's got to be money involved.

Yes.

How much money

are you paid to go and stand in a mosquito tank until you get subclinical malaria for science?

Right now, John, I am just imagining one of those money tanks they have at fairs, but there's also malaria bearing mosquitoes in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like they're tornado of dollar bills, you're grabbing them, but also grabbing mosquitoes with malaria.

What fun?

If that is not how the test is administered, I would like to know how, but first, how much?

So it was $200

per vaccine administration.

That means per bite?

Well, no, that would about a dollar per bite.

Not enough.

So it was like a soup, a to-go soup container with a mesh top.

Yeah.

And all the mosquitoes, about 200 mosquitoes in that container.

Right.

And you put your arm over it for 10 minutes.

Honestly?

That's dumb.

I mean, I'm not saying you're dumb or smart for doing it or not.

I'm saying that technique seems really dumb.

Like, I think a booth is better, right?

Because then, and just go nude into a booth full of mosquitoes.

But, I mean,

holding your arm over a bowl for 10 minutes seems an excessively dull and tiring way to get a bunch of mosquito bites.

There are many more exciting ways to do it.

Okay.

That's true.

So, and you get, and you get 200 bucks for that.

For those, and then there were many, many additional visits with blood draws and screenings.

So all said and done, it was about $2.5,000.

It's a side effect of malaria saying numbers funny.

Are you doing it for the money or are you doing it for the science?

I would say say 60-40, science and money.

Okay.

And

John, yeah.

If you think that doing this was foolhardy, maybe you should talk to his used

motorcycle.

Good point, Jesse.

What'd you buy with your $2.5,000?

One of the things I got was a pair of skis.

So last year, Andy introduced me to skiing.

Oh, okay.

And we...

I'm sorry to snort about skiing in Washington State.

That was rude.

I apologize.

There's no real skiing to speak of in New England, which is a region in the northeast United States.

I haven't heard of it.

The skiers in New England will hate me for saying that, but there's skiing here in Washington, right?

There's good skiing, right?

I mean, I see these mountains.

They're for real.

They're not our bogus, lumpy hills like we got

in New Hampshire and junk.

All right.

That's where I'm from.

You're from New Hampshire?

Well, I'm not sorry, but I said what I said.

You know, I'm right.

I grew up near a lumpy hill.

Yeah.

So you got some skis, and Andy introduced you to some skiing, so your life was better that way because you got to spend more time with your friend.

Yep.

And how many other types of tests have you done?

You mean trials?

I said what I meant.

I would say there were two trials.

You know what this is?

This is a trial.

And you, my friend, are on it.

I'm currently writing a journal article entitled The Effects of Sass Mouth on Tough Judges.

How many other trials had you participated in?

There were two others.

Two others.

So in total, that's three

for a total of

$7.5,000.

Thank you.

Thank you, audience members.

No, those other ones were much less money.

But also much less involved.

Oh, really?

What were the other ones about?

Just blood draws or nasal swabbing.

I'd nasal swab for free.

Is this something that is just convenient to your office?

Like, is this at the research center?

And they're like, hey, do you want to come down and get a nasal swab for a honey right now?

And you're like, sure, why not?

Yeah, a nasal swab for beer money sounded good.

Nasal swab for beer money sounds like an incredible t-shirt as well.

All right, so Andy, Avi is okay, right?

But any lingering results of your subclinical malaria?

None.

How's your parasitic burden right now, aside from this guy who's bothering you?

It's zero.

Zero parasitic burden, and all is well, and you got your skis, and you went

on a ski date with your friend.

So, Andy, what do you care?

I have two complaints.

I think one is I think that he's unnecessarily taking a risk.

I think it's not worth it.

He has a real job, and I think he doesn't

I mean, I don't want to say he doesn't need the money, but I think it's just that the sort of risk-reward

calculation is off.

And then the other problem you don't understand,

some people really thrive on risk.

Some people don't feel alive unless they have that rush of a cup of noodles cup full of 200 mosquitoes pushed up against their forearm for 10 sweet minutes.

Is that why you do it, Avi?

So you can feel something for once?

God, I've been chasing the dragon to that first nasal swab for.

Unnecessary risk is your point.

And then the other thing is that it's just unbelievably time-consuming.

He has to go in.

For this one, he had to go in.

There were these big periods where he had to go in every day to get his blood drawn.

And then he wasn't allowed to leave the city for big chunks of time because they were worried about it.

And you wanted to take him on a skiing trip and you weren't going to get it.

Or do other things.

We like to do lots of things together.

So yeah, there are all these,

we like to go on lots of outdoor adventures together.

But do you have any standing in this case?

Are you harmed in any way by his choices of what to do with his own body, or do you just care about him?

I care about him.

No, that's not good enough.

Avi, how do you feel about Andy's concerns?

I'm appreciative.

He's still wrong, but I'm appreciative.

Let's explore the wrong more than the appreciation, just for the sake of fun.

So I would say, as part of my career and general knowledge of biology, I've mitigated a lot of the what I would see as excessive risk.

Knowing a little bit more, there have certainly been clinical trials I've not done because I didn't understand it or didn't feel comfortable.

Like, what was one that you chose not to do?

So, there was another malaria therapy, but it was a pharmacological-based one, and I didn't know enough about pharmacology, drugs, and what they would do to my body.

So I chose not to participate in that one.

That seems very prudent of you.

What about this argument that you're missing out on trips because you're not allowed to leave Seattle because your parasitic burden is a danger to the rest of the United States or something?

I think

there was enough flexibility that I was still able to go on certain trips.

I couldn't go on all of the trips, but

one of the weekends that I was allowed to leave, we went to a river

or lake, a lake upstate.

The mosquitoes there were way worse.

You don't even know the difference between a lake and a river.

You're delusional.

Sorry, you were saying about the mosquitoes at the river of the lake?

The mosquitoes at the lake were much worse than the ones at the trial.

Oh, really?

And you didn't get nothing for that.

No.

Did they have malaria at all?

That's a good point.

Thank you, Bailiff Jesse.

On the scale of mosquito worseness,

I see it as going from not having malaria to having malaria.

What made them worse?

They weren't all in a cup?

Just much more intense bites and itchy and

all over, too.

Not so much.

Not just localized to one small part of my arm, but.

That must have looked so gross on your arm, sir.

So aside from simply complaining about the trip that Andy took you on, your point is that nature poses as much risk often as a clinical trial for a malaria vaccine.

Or did you have a point at all?

Why was I hearing you complain about these mosquitoes?

Just that the mosquitoes, that the

actual trial wasn't as bad as real life.

So,

is that, you know, I was doing some research into this, and in 2016 in France, there was a clinical trial of a medication that was supposed to ease anxiety in Parkinson's patients, and a dude died.

You read this story, right?

It was a big story in France, and I know Andy's nodding along.

He follows Le Monde very carefully, follows the French bioclinical news very closely.

And six other guys, I think they're all men in this particular study, suffered irreversible brain damage as a result.

It was very, very big news.

Obviously, there are clinical trials all the time.

This is an extreme outlier in science, but there are dangers, right?

There are risks involved in what you're doing.

Yeah.

For sure.

What is the limit?

Pharmacology.

I don't understand exactly what the pharmacology study was.

Is that taking a pill?

Is that what that means?

Yes.

Right.

So you're not going to be taking any pills.

Right.

As long as you're...

Well, I just try, don't look at me like that, dude.

You're the one putting cups of mosquitoes up to your body.

I'm just trying to understand your lifestyle.

And where your limits are.

So that I can rule on whether or not Andy has a right to stop you before you hurt yourself again.

Sure.

I say my limits would then be

to what extent I understand the science and how comfortable I am with the kind of physiological processes that would go on.

God, does he always use these words?

Always.

Yeah, all the time.

I would just contend that inherent to the fact that it's a clinical trial is that they don't know what's going to happen.

So he may say that he needs to understand what's going to happen, but that's why they're doing the test is because it's sort of this mystery.

They don't know.

Andy, you introduced Avi to skiing, right?

Yeah, I guess so.

Is that true?

Do the two of you like to go cross-country or downhill skiing?

Both.

Those are perfectly safe activities, right?

Like, no one has ever died downhill skiing, certainly not, say, Sonny Bono.

We don't play football while we ski, generally.

Whoa.

Clash of Sonny Bono trivia.

Take that ghost of Congressman Sonny Bono.

I Was going to say I really enjoyed your line of questioning there Bailiff Jesse.

Thank you, but you just got bonoed

The bailiff makes a good point Andy you you are trying to keep Avi from taking minor hypothetical risks So that he can engage in more risky behavior with you How do you respond to that assertion?

I just think that the

risk-reward calculation is just different.

The sort of going skiing down a blue run at a mountain, I don't think

is perhaps more rewarding than sitting in a lab with 200 mosquitoes.

Yes, alone.

Except the guy who's probably never nasal swab.

It's amazing.

So if I were to rule in your favor, Avi, obviously it would just be to say to Andy, stay out of my business.

You're my friend, not

my mom or dad.

Correct?

All right.

And Andy, what do you want me to rule?

That Avi should not ever do this again?

Maybe not.

Yeah, I'd like you to rule that he should refrain from clinical trials, at least

ones that have to do with potentially deadly diseases.

And Mr.

Speaker, do you have something coming up?

Is there something on your docket, Avi?

So there's an HIV vaccine trial.

But

that one does not include a challenge.

So

a challenge is the term for when the actual pathogen is administered to see if the vaccine is efficacious.

Right.

Which is what happened with you and your malarial fruit.

Right.

So after three vaccine doses, they then gave me actual malaria mosquitoes.

Right.

And the vaccine didn't work.

Right.

So with this HIV vaccine trial, you would be taking the vaccine, but they would not be introducing HIV.

Exact words.

So what do they learn from this trial?

To see if they can measure certain biomarkers associated with the vaccine

that would indicate if it worked or not.

Right.

And why is it, I mean, why is it important for you to do this next test?

I presume, Andy, that you're opposed to him doing this.

Just in general,

I worry about the sort of prevalence of these.

I don't know too much about this specific trial, but I think that

there's these trials.

Generally, you want this habit to stop.

This habit, yes.

Right.

And why is it important to you

that you consider and maybe do this one?

I wouldn't say it's super important, but I'm excited by the idea of being part of something that could potentially be the vaccine or a vaccine.

I mean, I think that's really exciting to participate in that kind of a research project, a research trial.

Is that part of why you do the work that you do at a cancer research center?

I would say partially, yeah.

I mean, I'm driven by questions.

I would say that's a majority of it is just trying to understand biological mechanisms, but for sure, you know, the greater good of humanity is certainly part of it.

Did you hear that applause when he said that?

And I think he's short-selling the role that money plays in the thing here.

So I agree that he cares a lot about science, but that's why he is a scientist, and that's why he does the experiments himself.

I don't think he needs to be a participant.

No,

that's yeah, I understand that.

But I'm going to do something that

I would normally never do

in a live case,

which is I'm going to manipulate things for the podcast, and you're going to be a part of it.

I hope you will go along with me on this.

So I would like you to just say,

and also there's the money.

And then when he says that, I want everyone to give him a standing ovation.

This may work into the edit.

It may not.

It's all about providing options.

Just something we need.

A little pickup here.

And also, there's the money.

Okay, okay.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to render my decision.

I'm going to go into my portable Seattle chambers.

I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Please rise as Judge Sean Ochman exits the courtroom.

Andy, how are you feeling about your chances?

I was feeling better until the applause.

I think Avi won over a lot of hearts at the end there, so I'm nervous.

I mean, had it occurred to you that maybe these clinical trials would help solve deadly diseases?

That's true, but I think he's doing that with his own research, not.

He doesn't need to sign up to

Plus with his carving those sweet slopes.

Avi, how are you feeling about your chances?

Better now.

Andy, do you think you have demonstrated that this has cost to you, that you have standing in this case?

I'm not sure.

I hope so.

I've been friends with Avi a long time, and I hope that he considers his own health in this moving forward.

Can we just redo this whole thing?

Just be a little more chill.

You seem kind of uptight.

And

please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

We've been doing this podcast for,

what, eight or nine, eight years now?

Yeah.

About that, going into our ninth year.

And standing is a legal term that I learned five days ago.

I'm still not even sure I understand it completely.

But it speaks to a concern that I've had as the podcast has gone on, that

we're often just hearing people who disagree with each other rather than people who can demonstrate a harm or an injustice or an unfairness.

that someone needs to have standing, a reason to bring the case to me, other than to be on perhaps the most popular podcast of our era.

Now you guys are applause crazy.

All right, all right.

Anyway.

And the fact of the matter is, Andy, that you're that you're standing here is is very hard to establish because you're you're Avi's friend, right?

And you want him to be healthy, but presumably you also want him to be happy.

If Avi had come to this court just saying, like, yeah, you know, I want to just get 2.5

gig of Bitcoin to

put into a beer and keg stand it,

and then I'm going to let them chop off my pinky.

Which is a real transaction you can conduct on the dark web.

Chop off my pinky and feed it to a snake, and it's totally cool.

It's a little something called freedom.

Look it up.

That's right.

I would be inclined to say that perhaps Avi is being a little carefree with his own existence and well-being

in a way that would perhaps require some intervention from a close friend.

But mostly the complaint you brought is

sometimes my friend can't go skiing with me because he got bit.

Because the requirements of the science he's in means he can't leave town.

And that is fairly, it's not, I mean, you aren't obviously self-less, that you do care about him, but also selfish, you want him around more.

And it's hard for friends when they have hobbies and passions

that keep them separate.

You know, I appreciate that you want to spend time with him, but his life is his life, and his body is his body.

And I think that he's demonstrated that his motives are

not only

fairly noble and integral to who he is, but also that he's fairly responsible

with the trials that he undertakes.

And, you know, look, it could be that

Andy dies in a delusional panic,

sick with yellow fever and a parasitic load

that is coming out of his ears because he gets one trial wrong.

I don't think that that's going to happen

any more than I think he's going to fall off a cliff with you on skis.

So,

really, you had no business bringing the case

to court, except as a very public display of your affection for your friend, which I do believe is true.

Now,

there have been a lot of emotional outpourings from the audience this evening.

Some of them, at least one, was highly manipulated

to create podcast magic, but two of them were very genuine.

Real applause for Avi and a real awe for you.

And I think that's the most you're going to get out of this case.

You should take it and go home.

Judge, I rule in Avi's favor.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules.

That is all.

Andy and Avi, ladies and gentlemen.

Our thanks to Sasha Zucker for naming this case, and our thanks to Andy and Avi for being on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Indeed.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of of your favorite podcasts at maximumfun.org, and they are all your favorites.

If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic.

Just go to maximumfund.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Let me ask you a question.

Did you know that most of the dishes served at Tom Clicchio's craft restaurant are made in, made in pots and pans?

It's true.

The Brace Short Ribs, made in, made in.

The Rohan Duck Riders of Rohan, made in, made in.

That heritage pork chop that you love so much, you got it.

It was made in, made in.

But made in isn't just for professional chefs.

It's for home cooks too.

And even some of your favorite celebratory dishes can be amplified with made-in cookware.

It's the stuff that professional chefs use, but because it is sold directly to you, it's a lot more affordable than some of the other high-end brands.

We're both big fans of the carbon steel.

I have a little carbon steel skillet that my mother-in-law loves to use because cast iron is too heavy for her, but she wants that non-stick.

And I know that she can, you know, she can heat that thing up hot if she wants to use it hot.

She can use it to braise if she wants to use it to braise.

It's an immensely useful piece of kitchen toolery.

And it will last a long time.

And whether it's griddles or pots and pans or knives or glassware or tableware, I mean, you know, Jesse, I'm sad to be leaving Maine soon, but I am very, very happy to be getting back to my beloved made-in entree bowls.

All of it is incredibly solid, beautiful, functional, and as you point out, a lot more affordable because they sell it directly to you.

If you want to take your cooking to the next level, level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common.

They're made in, made in.

For full details, visit madeincookware.com.

That's m-a-d-e-i-n cookware.com.

Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Look,

if you haven't been to a live justice show before, you may not know it's not just the two of us up here, John-like pals with with Dispensing Justice.

We also have professional entertainers, professional entertainers, musical guests.

And we have one for you here tonight, and we're very excited.

I mean, I dare say

we're both a little bit of a flutter.

Yeah, so that is absolutely true.

This is a guest that we were like, they're not going to say yes, are they?

And then they did.

We are so excited to have them on the show, true music heroes of Seattle and our great nation.

Please welcome welcome to the stage Seattle's own Shabazz Palaces.

Lights slice across the set Gold dice tumble toward the riches off my bets Crashing institutions shooting eastward in a jet A revolution down to the glitches in my set Rets try to pose the flash frozen cold Gold never fold royal colors getting rolled Flights book, bikes cook, ice look dazzling Seats on the layback, time zone javelins Bruno's in a berry tone Wavy like the herringbone Shades boast a nice blaze My shit's cherry chrome A stage to roam adventures Hypodelic lift out in the plasma charisma That's for seven

Vanity,

I love you for myself.

Me and always you and always never no one else.

Sanity,

a visage of my wealth.

I'm lost, but always found but for the idols that I knelt.

Strategy, the only way to cry.

I keep it do it, die and only think in terms of I.

Revelry,

some legend futures past.

It's revelry instead, for it renders hella fast.

Capital, a soundness on the

is slaking unrealized until essence has been raised.

A sepulchre, a stage alive by ghosts, floating off with bags of the blood encrusted dough.

A far short,

by simply man is him.

His blackophilic

pedastrophic hymns.

Darkness.

The light that flashed and dared.

Kingdom stellar lairs to which my kind is the heirs.

Pass when I, The Jester's game of vice The friar said copper with slain during ice

They just walking round, they walking round

They just watching down, always watching down

What they talking bout, what they talking bout

Ain't no copping out From a cold claw cut in the deep zones A sunken ship with the ghost tones She put my secret name there on her plot yeah Under the chair high, tucked in the dope spot The brome tire screech every time we dip We converse in the ancient languages If you come to see us, this is what you get Specialness in this equipment for the long trip, yeah And my jacket fits

And I'm packing it

So miraculous

Well, she told me you was statuesque Legend carry like a killer's nerves One picture's worth a thousand spurs These facts stated to enhance what is pre-load i dance with the white whale on the peak road and find my way fast when the road curve y'all it's a seesaw life should i go should i go

ah look at me fall did i know

did i know cuz here they are on the gilded wings

Rocking filthy rings

Go back, go back, yeah, yeah, go back Cause he said it could, but this shit is old hat

Shall we raise a drink?

What the fuck you think?

Ooh, for whom the angels sing

And my favorite colors brown with pink I believe to own his each I'm gonna hold the chrome with a tight grip

They might trip die

Cause the way we talk shit is so fly

They just walking round, they walking round

Always watching down, always watching down.

Fuck they talking about what they talking about, die.

Ain't no copping out, no popping out.

The king of spades laid across the green belt The ace of spades was the next card gonna get dealt I had a black queen under my thumb so I'm looking at the dealer like your time to finally come now

I had slid across all my chips Kissed my queen across her glossy lips Seen the officer getting his pistol grips Rustin fuck that bro This is it Shit ain't always gotta check brother Life is Rice's hopes Vice is two coatbooks pistols and his dope And some more shit Shit I can't even quote but I'm giving on

Pet text, pet, text,

pet, text, pet, text, pet, text,

Where the dogs throw money at the girls' hoes.

That every fucking thing gon' turn up roses.

And the big bright flash freeze all our poses.

I believe in my TV and buy cake with my rent Party all nasty like it don't make sense I'm in the groove where all my folks move Where the cars get you pussy and the liquor's smooth And if you be a little different, then the us is funny And you can even play yourself if it's for some money He hate women, but he love money And if you ain't convinced, he gon' go get his gun

I'm on the trend that all my folks in Where the brothers hate love and pray for sin And if you want satisfaction, be a star and spin And all my little bros on the street putting the guns in action It's a midnight sharp like the clothes on a pin You gotta kick it like it don't make sense I'm in the funk with all my folks fly with a crowd I'll make you sky if you just get rich or die Hey, never let them see you smile or try or cry A chain and a video, that's paradise I believe in my clothes, labels, and in my mirrors of Prince And I'm so conceited but unconvinced I'm on that spot that all my folks drop Trying to grind and shine and climb on top Hitting licks to strike it rich, but really not Just like spinners looking like they going when they really stop

I pop that gun that all my folks run Shoot for the stars and get you some That eternal hard dance beat ain't never done Taking hella chances under the moon and sun 2020

21

Thank y'all very much

Shabazz Palaces ladies and gentlemen Shabazz Palaces

You know we've been doing my brother My Brother, Me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah.

You don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Jesse, we have some more justice to dispense.

There is still injustice in the world, but John, time is starting to run short.

I think we're going to have to do these ones fast.

We're moving on to swift justice.

We're going to hear three cases in 15 minutes, shall we?

That's what?

15 minutes on the clock.

That's only five minutes per case, John.

Do you think you can?

Oh, I thought it was 2.5,000 per case.

I apologize.

Yes, I think we can do it.

Ready, steady, go.

Please welcome Jonica and Kyle.

Jonica

and Kyle.

Jonica, you bring this case before me seeking justice.

Yes.

And I'm going to tell you, I didn't even read your letter.

As soon as I saw your name was Jonica, I'm like, yeah, you're on.

Good.

It's the greatest name I've ever heard in my life.

Never met a Jonica before.

Thank you.

Met plenty of Johns, let me tell you.

And they're all dull.

So I'm going into this fairly blind.

What's the issue?

Judge, I would like you to order my husband to make a new friend to preserve my sanity and the health of our marriage.

Natsie.

Jonica, I knew I liked you

because you've been paying attention.

You came into here going like, I just want my husband to make a friend.

But you saw that last case, and you're like, I have to prove standing.

I don't want him to have a friend for him.

I want him to have a friend for me.

Yeah.

Because he's hanging around the house driving me crazy.

Yes.

Right, okay.

Yeah.

That's it.

Is that true?

That is true.

We moved to Seattle about a year and a half ago from Korea.

That's where we met.

And

I had.

Hey, quick question.

This is just something that came up last night in Vancouver.

When you were living in Korea, did you ever watch a real television show called Vampire Prosecutor?

No.

Just trying to determine.

That's a real show?

Well, I'm trying to determine whether it's real or the whole internet is gaslighting me.

Never heard of it?

Let's get back to your case.

I apologize.

That's okay.

I lived in Seattle a few years before I moved back here, so I still have friends.

You may have missed the run of Vampire Prosecutor.

Probably didn't show in Korea.

So you still have friends here in Seattle.

You still have friends here.

I also made some new friends through work, but in that year and a half, my husband has not made any new friends.

And he's never, have you.

Maybe it's because he's so quiet.

Kyle, is it?

Yes.

Okay.

So you guys met in Korea and you moved to Seattle, but you had never lived here before.

No, I'm originally from England, so this is my first time in America.

Oh, I see.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Yeah.

And so living in England, of course, you had no friends.

Just mates.

Just mates.

Well, my defense is that I do have friends.

I've got friends around the world.

I literally just have one friend in Seattle.

Who's there?

You're saying you have a friend in every port.

Who's your one friend in Seattle?

He's my friend Craig.

Met him in South Korea.

We played on the same football soccer team

in South Korea.

He's from Seattle, so when we moved to Seattle, I got back in touch with him.

Oh, he lives here in Teat.

Is he here tonight?

He isn't.

He isn't.

He would be here.

Some friend.

He's a longtime listener, by the way.

He really wants us to say his full name.

He wants you to say his full name?

Yeah, Craig Batson.

I'm not just sneaking in there.

I'll say it, too.

Craig Batson, where the hell are you?

Some friend.

Craig.

Where's Craig now?

He's out of town

for his work.

Well,

I may order you to.

He's a transplant surgeon.

Do you have difficulty making new friends?

I do, yeah.

I'm quiet.

Yeah.

I'm a bit of an introvert.

I don't really kind of put myself that forward, making new friends.

Sure.

And after all, football, aka soccer, is the most introverted of sports.

That fandom is pretty quiet.

Pretty like they just kind of watch it and then go home quietly to think about what they've seen.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Very polite sports.

Sure, sure.

There's no social bonding around that particular sport.

I don't often make very many friends when I shower.

Are you unhappy with the number of friends you have?

Well, one isn't a big number.

One is the loneliest number.

Very, very much is.

I mean, I would like to make more friends, and I think, you know, I should make more friends.

I just don't feel I need as much pressure or the pressure to make friends immediately.

What do you do in order to get him to make friends?

Just tease him about it and bully him a little bit.

Whoa!

She sends me articles

like research has been done that

men with a small social group are more likely to be depressed and die younger.

And this is a way to try and scare me into getting more friends, but it kind of just scares me.

And I don't really read the article because it's a little bit depressing from the title, to be honest.

Kyle, do you participate in any

organized social activities, work, church, clubs, bowling teams?

No.

Far from soccer.

Why aren't you playing soccer with you?

You're playing soccer, and aren't your teammates your friends?

I think.

I mean, we're friends.

We don't socialize a lot outside of playing.

What's wrong with them?

It can't be all of you.

Surely there's got to be an after-game get-together.

Well, I think there's just a large age difference where I'm a little bit older on the team, so they'll go out.

I'm hiding on the team from the movie Ladybugs.

They'll text him kind of last minute to go get drinks, and he won't go.

Oh, because you're tired.

I'm tired.

He's got a date with Craig.

Yeah.

Got a date with Craig, or you're home with Jonica watching Vampire Prosecutor.

What is your age, if I may ask?

I'm 38.

You're 38 years old.

You're too young to be a homebody.

What would you like him to do?

You'd like him to be out of the house three, four, five times a night?

No, five nights a week.

Or five times.

Well, I'm back.

Okay, gotta go.

That wouldn't be the worst.

What would be better?

What would be better?

I'd like him to at least have one other friend other than Craig, so he was out maybe a couple of nights, at least a month.

Right now,

what would you do during those nights?

I go see my own friends without him.

Oh, I see.

Which is, you know, right now, I usually feel bad if I don't invite him along, so I bring him along when I go hang out with my friends.

Do you like movies?

Yeah, I did a master's in film studies, so I love movies.

Oh,

no wonder you have no friends.

Wait, John, I have an idea.

Our friend David Chen from the Slash Film Cast is here.

Dave, are you here somewhere?

Dave?

Yeah, over here.

Dave, where are you?

Come here.

You're a famous film podcaster.

Come here.

Masters in Film Studies.

Come here now.

Just saying.

Come on up.

Ladies and gentlemen from the Slash Film cast, David Chen.

Have you met Kyle?

Yes.

Hi.

You live here in Seattle, don't you?

That is correct.

Yes, I do.

Do you need a friend?

Always.

Fantastic.

All right.

I am ordering you two to be friends.

Right.

It's two friends.

Now,

look, you're very game to do this.

This wasn't planned.

Thank you for coming up on stage.

No problem.

Look, I think it's very possible that Kyle's a big drip, and if it doesn't work out,

no big, but maybe you guys should go see a movie together.

You should go see an Aquaman or something.

Yeah, sounds great.

Sounds great.

What movie do you want to see?

Any movie you like.

It's fine.

Well, you really have to take the wheel here.

Sounds good.

Sounds good.

And I'll tell you what, just to make this have some consequence,

you two are now friends.

And until you guys go and see the movie and send me a picture of the ticket stub, I'm ordering you to break up with Craig.

Because Craig's got his priorities all wrong.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Jonica and Kyle and David Chen from the slash film cast.

Thank you, David Chen.

David and Kyle

are friends.

Please welcome Kellen and Kara.

Kellen and Kara.

Welcome to the court of Judge John Hodgman.

Who comes before this court to seek justice?

Who initiated this case?

I did.

And you are.

Kellen.

Kellen.

So what is the nature of your dispute?

So Kara and I have been friends for 19 years.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

Fantastic.

She lives in Washington.

I live in Oregon.

Okay.

This summer in Oregon, I moved houses across town.

Sure.

So as part of moving, my wife and I took on a bunch of home renovation projects.

Fantastic.

Do you have a television show?

On HGTV?

You know what?

It would be really cool.

I'm already on board.

Thank you.

My wife is a wildland firefighter.

So this summer she kept getting called to go fight fires.

Thank her for her service.

I will.

And so it took us a long time to get these projects finished.

So the one that was driving me nuts was our backsplash.

So we pulled off the old backsplash, put in new countertops, and then we were living with drywall, which was driving me chargers.

By the time she finally got around to it, we were...

Hate drywall.

The worst.

Absolutely.

The worst.

Drywall.

Can't live with it.

Can't live without it.

I'm about to tell you, it's better than Wetwall.

No good.

I tried it.

No good.

Not as good as Wonder Wall.

So we were two boxes of tile short of being able to finish.

Okay.

And Big Box retailer would only let me order by the palette, which was entirely too much.

That's a lot of tile.

It's a lot of tile.

So there was a store in Washington that would ship to Kara's house in Washington, but would not ship to me in Oregon.

Right.

So I ordered.

Classic Oregon versus Washington rivalry.

The thing about Oregon is,

I know it's a cliche, but a retailer won't ship a pallet of tiles there.

Because they think they're too good for pallets.

So I had two boxes shipped to her house, and then I told her after the fact I had two boxes of tiles shipped to your house.

How big are the boxes?

65 pounds.

That's disputable.

It's disputable?

65 pounds?

Like what?

I don't think they were that big.

We literally just looked it up.

I don't.

Max dog.

This big.

Kara, I don't mean to make presumptions based on looking at you, but you're a powerlifter, right?

Yes, one with child.

I did notice.

Congratulations.

When are you due?

April.

In April, okay.

I was pregnant at the time.

Sure.

That the tile arrived.

She was less pregnant at the time.

Right.

See, Kellen, there I'm with you, because a weight of a growing baby does change.

A weight of tiles does not change.

So within two weeks, I was up and I picked up the tile, took it home, finished the backsplash, end of story.

No big.

But, all right, let's hang on.

Okay.

You sent the tile to Karis without getting permission first.

Then you called and informed her you got two boxes of tile coming.

Don't get angry.

But she got angry.

No, she didn't get angry.

Can you talk to her about it?

Did you get angry that you got two boxes of tile?

Well, I didn't get angry, but

I did think about ways to get revenge,

which is why we're here.

I cannot wait to get into your plans for revenge.

But in evaluating your case, I need to know, was this an inconvenience to you?

Why did you feel the need for revenge?

Were you hurt emotionally?

Was it problematic for your life?

In what way?

Show me standing.

When they delivered the tile, they dropped it right in front of my front door.

Two 65-pound boxes.

Right.

I was pregnant and I have a toddler.

Right.

And no one else, you had to take it.

And I was at home alone.

So I had to kind of drag the tile into my entryway and stare at it for a while.

That is a legitimate inconvenience.

She has a double door, Your Honor.

She could have opened the office.

Oh, excuse me.

she's part of the one percent

well your time is up madam double door

if i may be honest i forgot the other part opened because we haven't ever opened it

you don't even know how wealthy you are

You deserve to be a tile warehouse for your friend from from Oregon.

Clearly.

Her wife's a firefighter.

Thank you.

But I appreciate that was an inconvenience.

What, and now you're seeking damages in the form of revenge.

What is the revenge that you seek?

Sand.

Go on.

I love you, Washington, but Oregon sand is superior for sandboxes because it is rounder and more soft.

What are we even talking about?

Of all the Washington versus Oregon debates.

You're getting into the roundness of sand.

I have a friend who lives in Oregon, and I wanted to deliver some sand to her for a sandbox for my daughter.

Now, wait a minute.

Have you been living your life going,

I wish I could get some of that sweet Oregon sand up here.

Or

have you been going, how can I bother Kellen?

That's it.

And did you retcon your desire for this sand by looking up Oregon sand as an excuse?

The sandbox was expedited when the tile arrived.

Got it, okay.

What she told me, Your Honor, was it would be hilarious if you came home to a pile of sand in front of your garage.

Because it would.

It would be hilarious.

So stipulated.

So once you hire someone to dump sand in front of Kellen's garage, what do you propose happens next?

Her wife very much enjoys driving her truck, and I propose that her wife drive the sand to me.

I'll reimburse for gas.

And they won't deliver the Oregon sand to you in Washington?

As far as I can tell, no.

Well, maybe you didn't go very far to tell.

It's probably true.

All right.

Callan,

do you have a reason why you would not want a big pile of sand in front of your garage?

I don't think it's comparable.

If she said, hey, I'm having sand delivered and I'll be down in 10 days to pick it up, that would be great.

But now she's putting the burden on me to take the sand to her.

I think it's incredibly comparable, frankly.

Ingenious.

And the whole thing could have been avoided if you had just called her before you sent the tile to to her house.

You presumed that she was a pushover, that this weak pregnant lady couldn't stop your scheme.

My argument, Your Honor, is that she gave me a key to her house and told me to make myself at home.

I'll tell you what, you're both incredibly delightful.

I absolutely think this sand plan is fantastic.

Thank you.

Turnabout is very fair play.

And yet she did give you a key to her house.

It seems that this prank could go back and forth for many a year.

And I look forward to hearing it.

I'm not going to stop the endless reprisal that the sand scheme is about to start up.

So I order in Kara's favor, and then I look forward to seeing you guys here next year to find out what else you've you've done to each other.

There's a sound of a gavel.

Helen and Kara.

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the stage Kate and Brandon.

Kate and Brandon,

who comes to this court to seek justice?

I do.

All right, and you are Kate, I presume.

I am the Kate, yes.

And what is the nature of your dispute?

Over the past year, my husband has purchased six smart speakers and

more

smart bulbs and plugs and accoutrements

for said smart speakers than I could probably shake a stick at.

Right.

Now, by smart speaker, you're talking about

like, I don't know how to do this without brand names, like

a remote speaker, like a Sonos, like a remote speaker system,

or like a device like that you talk to.

The ones that are always listening.

A device made by one of the larger retail organizations.

Sure.

Across the world.

Right.

So everyone.

And Walmart talks a lot.

Talks a lot and listens more.

Yes.

Like, Alexa, subscribe to the Judge Sean Hotten podcast.

Alexa, play Huey Lewis and the news sports.

It's my famous catchphrase, ladies and gentlemen.

So,

you have more than one of these devices in your home.

Yes.

Okay.

And your concern is what?

I am no longer able to use my lights like a normal person.

You can't turn them on and off.

No.

Because they're all programmed.

They're all programmed based on the program.

Yeah, no, I see your.

For the benefit of the audience at home, Brandon has raised his hand in the universal symbol of, well, actually.

Brandon, you will have your say.

So just finish your thought.

You can't turn your lights on and off because why?

So the bulbs are all connected to the smart speaker.

Sure.

And they are programmed to turn on and off based on voice commands.

So you have to not only remember what the voice commands are precisely.

Well, what has he done?

My voice is my password.

Verify me.

Nice.

It's just like

machine turn on the light.

Well, you would think it would be that simple, but I have spent many, I'm not going to say hours, minutes,

yelling various combinations of lights on,

lights come on, lights, you know,

and they just, they don't come on.

Did you try turn on the lights?

That too.

Okay.

Brandon, I now call on you.

Say your words.

I have not taken away her ability to manipulate the lights with her hands on the switches or the pull cords.

That ability is still hers.

She can, to her heart's content, turn lights on and off, and I will reset them and make my automation system the way that I envision it.

So you're saying,

I will.

You grant her the free will to crush your dreams if she so chooses.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Rebuild.

More powerful.

More powerful than ever.

Well, honey, I saw that you turned on the Torshier torchiere again with your hand.

I hope you got that out of your system.

No, no, it's fine.

I just have to go back over and make everything perfect again.

Which is why he got covers for the switches.

I have in my hand a piece of evidence handed to me by Brandon.

A magnetic switch and outlet cover for flat modern switches.

What does this do?

I've never seen such a thing.

So instinct kicks in, right?

I'm used to reaching over and touching and turning on and off the lights.

You're an old-style human.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Old school, I reach over and this is basically to prevent me from inadvertently out of habit using the switches.

Brandon, did you ever consider just like taking the switch off and fraying the wires a little?

I did shop around for a collection of smart speaker activated light switches.

These are only like $3.

So, wait a minute.

You said that she can turn the lights on and off with her hands however much she pleases, and yet you're blocking her from doing that.

With perhaps an obstacle as difficult as removing a refrigerator magnet.

But why at all?

Why

do that?

What benefit is it to your system that she not touch a light switch?

Because then you can enjoy the convenience

of sitting on the couch speaking to the device and having it do for you and not have the the hassle and the burden of standing up walking over to the switch and turning the switch off I am saving her minutes

All easy.

It's not Bob Justice.

I'm a monster.

I know I'm a monster.

I never claimed I was not a monster.

Brandon,

you're adorable.

I love you.

I'm thinking of asking you to marry me.

Take it.

Because

I think you might be on the market soon.

Quick question.

Your automated lights, are they just, you know, like

regular light or do you use colored lights and schemes?

Predominantly, they are

regular standard lights.

In a couple of selected locations, I have the ability to manipulate color, and that allows for some really fun cool.

I have the ability to manipulate color.

Finally, I may make this world perfect.

And you you cannot stop me, Spider-Man.

Smart speakers are sexist.

Let the record show that someone in the audience said smart speakers are sexist.

They don't listen as well to women.

That's interesting.

That could be part of my problem.

My eight-year-old daughter and I have had many afternoons where we've come home and just frantically tried to get lights to turn on and we give up and we take the the magnetic thing off and we're like, forget it.

We're just, we're doing this.

Our four-year-old daughter has no problem controlling the lights with her voice.

Well, here's the thing.

So I have some of these

lights too, these smart lights.

And we also have a smart

device that we had to

We had to rename our electronic friend because every time we talked about it, it would activate.

And then suddenly we would be listening to Dolly Parton, which is not terrible.

Worse things have happened.

Yeah, for sure.

And it is a confusing transition in human history.

You know, there's a futurist named Juan Enriquez who gives a very interesting talk about how Homo sapiens and Neanderthals

are not...

they lived together.

for a long, long, long time before finally Homo sapiens said, enough of you guys, and they ate their brains, and that was it for them.

And he said, There's no reason to believe that in the future, given advances in medical science and so forth, that essentially there will be a new species of human that will live alongside us

for a long period of time.

We don't won't just be immediately replaced by Brandon and his ilk.

And what we're seeing is that stage of human evolution right now.

That new species, of course, are called Cylons.

Cylons or husbands with schemes.

I think that it's important for humanity that you learn to live together.

And this Cold War that you are waging, you are waging, Brandon, with your magnetic switch covers,

that has to stop right now.

Give that to me.

Let the record reflect, by the way, that when John threw that switch cover into the audience, the audience shrunk away, terrified.

It's like I was throwing a cup of malarial mosquitoes into the audience.

I like this stuff,

even though I know that my privacy is completely violated,

that it's collecting data on everything that I do and say and everything I choose.

But not her because it doesn't listen to her.

Well,

did you tell it not to listen to her to protect her?

She has the ability to train it if she opened up the app and have it listen to her voice and go through a number of things.

No, no, no, no, no.

You can live together, but in your separate styles.

Let her use the...

Let her.

She has the human right to use light switches.

Don't.

Don't tell her to talk better to the machine.

Do something to the machine so it listens better.

What else did you want out of this?

Anything other than me yelling at your husband?

That was just a bonus.

The bit with the switch plate cover going into the audience was.

You're not asking to get rid of all of this technology, are you?

No, no.

I appreciate the festiveness that he has

brought to the house, but I.

They go red and green at Christmastime, Christmastime, orange and purple at Halloween, and it plays Monster Mash.

It is great.

My ruling stands: you're adorable.

But indeed, you need to make your house livable, not just for your species,

but for those of us who will soon be left behind.

We're relics who should treasure us.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Thank you, Kate and Brandon.

Our thanks to all of the litigants who were part of our show in Seattle, Washington.

You all did a wonderful job.

Our thanks also to our friends in Shabazz Palaces.

Their latest album is on subpop records.

It's called Quasars Born on a Gangster Star.

Their music is remarkable, and it was, I have to say, one of the highlights of my career getting to share a stage with them, and I don't mean that insincerely.

Our show recorded by Matthew Barnard, our producer is the ever-capable Jennifer Marmer.

If you've got a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to maximumfund.org/slash JJ Ho and share it with us.

Then, get ready, the Max Fun Drive is right around the corner.

We love you.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

MaximumFun.org: Comedy and Culture, Artist-owned, Listener-supported.