Live From Vancouver 2019

Speaker 1 Hello, this is your Judge John Hodgman.

Speaker 3 This episode of the podcast was recorded live in Vancouver, Canada at the Rio Theater.

Speaker 3 It was the first stop on our recent live justice tour through the Pacific Northwest, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. You'll be hearing all of those great evenings later.

Speaker 3 But for now, let's go direct to the stage at the Rio Theater for live justice.

Speaker 8 Vancouver, we sent out a call for disputes and you answered. We're thrilled to bring you live justice, British Columbia style.
That means ketchup-flavored.

Speaker 8 Shall we get into it?

Speaker 8 Let's bring out our first set of litigants. Please welcome Graham and Paige to the stage.

Speaker 8 Tonight's case, love

Speaker 8 Draculey.

Speaker 8 Graham files suit against his fiancée, Paige. Paige thinks that if she were to become a vampire, she could continue living a normal life.

Speaker 8 Graham thinks he's morally required to kill any vampires he comes across,

Speaker 8 even if one of them is his beloved.

Speaker 10 Who's right? Who's wrong?

Speaker 8 Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference.

Speaker 12 I hate Draculas

Speaker 1 so much.

Speaker 14 Draculas just suck blood.

Speaker 15 No one likes them.

Speaker 16 Get out of here, Draculas.

Speaker 17 Draculas love to hide and surprise you with their teeth.

Speaker 19 Honestly, couldn't be worse.

Speaker 20 Hate them.

Speaker 11 Don't let Dracula apologists warp your mind.

Speaker 21 Dracula's bad.

Speaker 22 No Dracula's good.

Speaker 14 Simple as that.

Speaker 23 Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear them in.

Speaker 8 Graham and Paige, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you, God, or whatever?

Speaker 25 Absolutely.

Speaker 8 Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he is a known wolf man?

Speaker 26 I do. Yes.

Speaker 27 Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Woo!

Speaker 8 Werewolves of Vancouver.

Speaker 18 Graham and Page, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors.

Speaker 1 Can either of you name the source of the cultural reference that I made as I entered this courtroom.

Speaker 34 Page, why don't you,

Speaker 7 I mean, you're the one who might be a vampire, and I would like to have you on my good side, so why don't you guess first?

Speaker 38 I think this is something that Jesse said earlier today.

Speaker 39 Something that Jesse Thorne

Speaker 13 said earlier today.

Speaker 41 All right, and that is in the guess book now.

Speaker 43 Graham, what is your guess?

Speaker 44 I'm also going to have to go with something Jesse Thorne said, but perhaps earlier than earlier today.

Speaker 8 You're like price is writing her?

Speaker 44 Yeah, pretty much.

Speaker 45 Well, unsurprisingly, both guesses are right.

Speaker 45 Jesse Thorne is a noted Dracula disliker, but to break the tie, because I do not accept

Speaker 29 your one penny over,

Speaker 46 that guess plus one cent.

Speaker 17 Can you name the precise day that Jesse Thorne said it?

Speaker 47 On Twitter?

Speaker 48 It was a long Twitter rant.

Speaker 38 November 21st, 2018.

Speaker 1 It would be so exciting if that were true.

Speaker 10 August 17th. May 2nd.

Speaker 49 Try again. May.

Speaker 44 May 7th.

Speaker 50 9.

Speaker 51 Sorry, I'm having trouble hearing you.

Speaker 48 9th? Was it 9th?

Speaker 11 May 9th? Oh, no, sorry.

Speaker 53 So close.

Speaker 40 May 19th.

Speaker 51 2017.

Speaker 52 So we go on to hear the case.

Speaker 8 John, can I clarify something? Please, of course. I'm not a Dracula disliker.

Speaker 8 I fing hate Draculas.

Speaker 25 Thank you, Jesse.

Speaker 54 All they do is sneak around and want to surprise you with their teeth.

Speaker 16 They're no good.

Speaker 8 They're no good.

Speaker 8 You wouldn't believe what they do with their teeth.

Speaker 8 Well, wait a minute, what? More than just biting.

Speaker 39 What do they do?

Speaker 24 Blood sucking. Oh, my word.

Speaker 8 Why do you think I hate them so much, John?

Speaker 55 I would have thought biting was enough.

Speaker 8 They're allowed to have any job.

Speaker 37 I've never understood what that means.

Speaker 8 Some Draculas work in movie theaters, just like this one.

Speaker 16 You're saying there could be a Dracula here right now.

Speaker 57 Remember when we met Paul earlier?

Speaker 10 Yeah. Who knows?

Speaker 40 Well, Jesse, I don't want to alarm you, but this entire case that we will eventually need to hear

Speaker 51 revolves around the possibility that Paige

Speaker 41 may be a Dracula.

Speaker 19 Paige, may I presume that you were invited into the theater?

Speaker 53 That is correct.

Speaker 25 All right.

Speaker 59 Paige, why do you worry about becoming a Dracula?

Speaker 47 I'm going to say Dracula from now on instead of vampire because it's very specific.

Speaker 38 This came up because Graham and I love watching movies. We love watching horror and sci-fi.
And this was...

Speaker 22 Are there Dracula movies?

Speaker 26 I think so. Oh, good to know.

Speaker 57 All right, good.

Speaker 8 Why would someone want to watch that?

Speaker 38 And this was one of the times where we would discuss what happened in the movie and apply it to real life. And normally his response is, it's okay, we can handle it, we're a team.

Speaker 38 And one day I said to him, If I came to you and you realized I was a vampire, what would you do? And he said to me, looked me in the eyes, we're engaged now. Congratulations.

Speaker 38 So I said yes after he said this. Okay.
He said,

Speaker 38 you don't date vampires, you kill them.

Speaker 12 Oh, no.

Speaker 28 Now, for those of you listening at home, Graham is a very adorable looking

Speaker 49 lycanthrope.

Speaker 13 A very slope-shouldered

Speaker 47 sort of round and cuddly wolf man.

Speaker 20 What was the precise film that you had been watching that inspired you to think this could happen to me?

Speaker 8 Do you remember?

Speaker 38 I cannot. Can you?

Speaker 44 I think it was probably one of the Twilight saga.

Speaker 10 Ah!

Speaker 30 First of all, thank you for telling the truth.

Speaker 29 Unlike certain maybe vampires who might be on the stage.

Speaker 29 You know what Draculas don't do, Jesse Thorne?

Speaker 8 What's that?

Speaker 18 They don't admit that they watch Twilight.

Speaker 11 No, it would be a good thing. It would be weird and embarrassing.

Speaker 58 Yeah.

Speaker 8 It would be like if you were Willie Mays and you were always watching Ken Burns baseball.

Speaker 66 Look, Graham, obviously you guys love each other very much. But what was it about this possibility

Speaker 33 that at least drew your imagination to this awful consequence?

Speaker 44 I just think that you can't trust a Dracula.

Speaker 11 They are

Speaker 4 objection, pandering to the bailiff.

Speaker 68 If I said sustain!

Speaker 44 I mean, but by definition almost, they are seductive.

Speaker 44 They lie to you, they try to get in your good graces.

Speaker 24 Right.

Speaker 44 So the second you learn of one, you have to take care of it. Like, it puts the people around you at risk.
It puts you at risk. It's just.

Speaker 50 You're saying there can't be a good Dracula.

Speaker 8 Can't be. You find out, and then, like Elvis Presley said, you TCB, take care of business.

Speaker 8 Stake business, my friend.

Speaker 8 Okay.

Speaker 11 Step back, Jesse Thorn. It's getting a little intense over there.

Speaker 22 But one job here tonight, it's to keep non-Draculas alive.

Speaker 62 So,

Speaker 67 Paige,

Speaker 29 why do you think this is unreasonable?

Speaker 7 Do you think if you became a Dracula, if you got turned, you could live a life that is not, or

Speaker 7 an unlife, as it were, that is not endangering to others?

Speaker 38 I'm a worrier by nature, and I like to plan ahead. And this was one of the times that he told me I can't.

Speaker 38 And I like to believe, and I think I do, that I would hang on to my core values, and perhaps we could work it out.

Speaker 26 Or...

Speaker 9 Okay, what are you talking about?

Speaker 38 The sleep schedules would be different.

Speaker 68 That's not the main problem, Paige.

Speaker 9 I mean...

Speaker 50 What are you going to do for blood?

Speaker 38 I haven't worked out the details.

Speaker 29 Well, you made a big mistake coming to my courtroom.

Speaker 28 I really did.

Speaker 18 Not preparing a case for yourself as a blood drinker.

Speaker 38 But wait.

Speaker 61 I will.

Speaker 38 This is a bit of a leap, but it occurred to me the other day that if the.

Speaker 17 Is it a leap or more of a flutter into the sky?

Speaker 38 It's a leap.

Speaker 38 If the crew of the Enterprise did not rescue Picard, who did not plan on being taken by the Borg, until they came, if they had not rescued him.

Speaker 73 Yeah.

Speaker 38 Then where would they be now?

Speaker 74 Borgs are not Draculas.

Speaker 75 It's a different thing.

Speaker 8 Two different animals.

Speaker 38 It's like something consuming you and taking away. It's threatening your personality and your core values.

Speaker 8 No, a Borg is a robot man, and a Dracula is a bloodsucker.

Speaker 12 It's an important distinction, I would agree.

Speaker 50 All right, now we're really going down a true rat hole of thought experiment.

Speaker 63 The fallacy, the false comparison here, the false equivalency, is that Picard had been turned into a Borg.

Speaker 29 And when they got him back, they un-borged him.

Speaker 9 If you get Dracula'd, you're a Dracula for eternity.

Speaker 49 Are you suggesting that through love, Graham is going to be able to undracula you?

Speaker 18 Or are you saying he's just got to learn to live with your blood sucking and your

Speaker 65 night walking?

Speaker 38 I'm fine with,

Speaker 43 let's not use that word.

Speaker 45 Your blood sucking and

Speaker 54 your sleep schedule.

Speaker 38 I feel like we could work it out.

Speaker 75 This is very vague.

Speaker 14 I like you both, and I don't want to be Dracula by you.

Speaker 50 But I need you to really think about this and make your case.

Speaker 18 Now, while you're thinking it over, you brought in some evidence that you wanted to present to the court.

Speaker 38 I forwarded some evidence and said that if it was relevant, please present it.

Speaker 38 So I'm hoping that it's relevant.

Speaker 45 Why would you send it in otherwise?

Speaker 8 It was just like a Sudoku you did or something.

Speaker 10 It's luck I'm no lawyer.

Speaker 66 All right, let's take a look at the evidence.

Speaker 46 Okay, so for those listening at home,

Speaker 71 we have side by side two very scary photographs.

Speaker 18 I think of the same thing.

Speaker 77 It looks like a mounted

Speaker 64 goat's head with black fur and scary horns.

Speaker 18 And in one picture, its eyes are glowing, and in the other picture, it's clear that it's mounted on an inverted pentagram. May I presume that this is over your bed?

Speaker 10 It's over her side.

Speaker 63 What is going on in this photo?

Speaker 63 By the way, Paige, it does seem pretty relevant.

Speaker 5 Good. Graham, can you explain what this is?

Speaker 44 This is not a real goat's head. This is a paper-mâché goat's head that I crafted.

Speaker 51 Oh, you're you're responsible for this.

Speaker 44 Yeah, I'm not a

Speaker 19 regular Martha Stewart.

Speaker 44 It was for a Halloween-adjacent horror movie-themed birthday party.

Speaker 40 Okay.

Speaker 10 That's all I know.

Speaker 44 I don't know why it's here.

Speaker 30 So, Paige,

Speaker 45 why are you sending this in except to muddy the waters of this whole conversation, to deceive and hypnotize us

Speaker 21 until we are within your thrall, and then we become your harem?

Speaker 38 We found out we were invited to our roommate's birthday party. He is born.
I'm outing you, Evan. He is here.
October 13th and in 2017, that was Friday the 13th.

Speaker 38 We had a horror birthday party and he wanted to make some papier-mâché weird creations. And I'm sorry, Evan and Aaron, yours were horrible and misshapen.
But Graham's was beautiful.

Speaker 38 Look at this. It's absolutely gorgeous.
And we brought it out this year.

Speaker 8 Are you just settling papier-mâché scores?

Speaker 78 Is that why you brought this case?

Speaker 79 You're just paper-mâché shaming. You're paper-machaming your friends.

Speaker 67 It has nothing to do with the case.

Speaker 45 This is a total distraction.

Speaker 75 Creature of the night!

Speaker 38 I apologize, Judge.

Speaker 63 Was there a point you wanted to make other than to mention the fact that your friends have a creepy birthday and don't make crafts good?

Speaker 38 Graham is thoughtful and creative, and I feel like when he puts himself into something, he can make amazing things. And I feel like.

Speaker 80 He's a creator, not a destructor.

Speaker 10 Yes. Is that your point?

Speaker 43 Yes.

Speaker 19 Graham, is it in your nature to destroy the undead?

Speaker 66 I mean, let's, first of all, wait a minute.

Speaker 1 We're just.

Speaker 8 Do you guys believe in

Speaker 56 Draculus?

Speaker 10 No.

Speaker 10 Okay.

Speaker 38 I don't believe in them, but I am afraid of them.

Speaker 18 Let me ask you this question.

Speaker 2 Ghosts? Yes or no?

Speaker 20 Do you believe in them?

Speaker 38 Same answer. I'm afraid of them.

Speaker 81 You're afraid they might exist.

Speaker 38 But I don't believe in them.

Speaker 82 Okay.

Speaker 18 Any other paranormal, supernatural stuff that you are.

Speaker 41 Oh, Graham's raising a ball.

Speaker 44 I feel like I haven't been able to get a lot in here, but I also don't feel like I'm in a terrible thing.

Speaker 24 Yeah, you seem a little shy for a vampire hunter.

Speaker 44 The real nature of this dispute, and I do want to make this clear, is that I don't don't suspect that Paige is a very good idea.

Speaker 11 Yeah, let's get into vampires.

Speaker 16 Does that freak you out, vampire?

Speaker 44 I don't think that she is currently a vampire. I've been with her in the daylight.
I've seen how much garlic she puts in food. It's very unlikely at this juncture.
Right.

Speaker 44 And I also want to make it clear that should I be turned into a vampire, I would expect the same treatment. I feel that vampires just need to be taken care of, as Jesse says.

Speaker 8 Yeah,

Speaker 8 would you characterize this Papier-Maché sculpture that admittedly is a stirring rendition of,

Speaker 8 I guess, a Satan goat?

Speaker 8 Would you consider this in its own way a form of taking care of business?

Speaker 10 Myself?

Speaker 28 Yeah.

Speaker 44 It needed to be done.

Speaker 10 You didn't see these other fabric-mache creations that my roommate had created.

Speaker 44 There needed to be something stirring for this party, and it made quite an effect on people as they walked in and the eyes were glowing.

Speaker 11 You know, it worked pretty well.

Speaker 29 Can we go to the next piece of evidence?

Speaker 8 Now, what we see here is a picture of a cat

Speaker 8 doing something pretty funny. They're doing like a funny sit.

Speaker 8 And then over there, there's a cat that's in it and he's on Prime Box

Speaker 8 like he just got delivered

Speaker 13 what is this what is this in reference to anyone paige

Speaker 38 these are my sweet angels mark and toe cutter

Speaker 84 and this goes to relevance how

Speaker 38 i i sent this in i i adopted them in 2011 they were the first pets that have been my own as an adult that i am solely responsible for. I love them stupid amounts.

Speaker 38 Nothing would stop me from feeding them twice a day and changing their litter and vacuuming after I'm done.

Speaker 64 Wampier love creatures of the night.

Speaker 59 Is this to prove that you're human or simply to pander to the bailiff's desire to laugh at funny animals?

Speaker 38 Definitely a little a column B. Yes.
But I feel like they...

Speaker 38 There's nothing that would prevent me. No transformation, if I'm able-bodied, would prevent me from caring for these small weirdos.

Speaker 63 Let me drill down on this a little bit.

Speaker 20 You're concerned in this thought experiment, that if you were a vampire, it would be like becoming a borg, that your personality would be erased, and you become a creature of murderous intent.

Speaker 60 That's your worry?

Speaker 80 Yes.

Speaker 37 But because you love cats, you're thinking, maybe not, and I don't deserve to die.

Speaker 14 Graham, your point of view is, it doesn't matter how much you love your fiancé, the moment she starts getting to Draculism, it's your responsibility as a member of the living to, quote-unquote, take care of it.

Speaker 21 Is that correct?

Speaker 85 That is correct. But what if she retains her basic, decent human nature?

Speaker 20 She just needs to drink blood.

Speaker 44 But how can I be assured of that?

Speaker 44 And where is she getting this blood?

Speaker 9 Yeah, guess what?

Speaker 22 This is what marriage is all about.

Speaker 10 No assurances.

Speaker 46 You're taking a huge leap of faith that the person you're going to spend the rest of your life with isn't secretly a monster.

Speaker 55 It's a decision we're all making every day.

Speaker 75 Should have saved that for the verdict, but there, it's out now.

Speaker 18 Paige, you have this conversation.

Speaker 18 I understand you have this conversation about Draculas with family members.

Speaker 59 Your mom has a point of view on this.

Speaker 38 She does.

Speaker 38 She's here tonight.

Speaker 28 Ah.

Speaker 38 And she views the transformation as a complete pro and possibly for her a retirement plan.

Speaker 18 Where's Paige's mom?

Speaker 27 Hello.

Speaker 48 What is your retirement plan?

Speaker 54 Paige is going to be immortal and take care of you? Is that what's going to happen?

Speaker 54 Well, I'm hoping she's going to bite me and turn me into a vampire because there's a few people that I would really like to get rid of.

Speaker 61 All right.

Speaker 8 Graham, you're relying on the goodwill of this woman's child.

Speaker 46 For those of you in the rear of the Rio Theater here in Vancouver,

Speaker 4 start making your way to the exits now.

Speaker 9 You don't wait.

Speaker 75 Don't wait for me to repeat what this woman just said because you couldn't hear it.

Speaker 37 For those of you listening at home, you are safe for now.

Speaker 87 But Paige's mother,

Speaker 71 I said to her,

Speaker 22 Do you want Paige to become immortal and take care of you?

Speaker 20 She said, No, I want Paige to bite me and turn me into a vampire because there are a few people that I would like to take care of.

Speaker 10 She has a hit list.

Speaker 49 So

Speaker 55 I can appreciate why Graham is now concerned.

Speaker 71 I mean, it is a cliché

Speaker 30 in certain heteronormative marriages that when men marry women, they're kind of marrying their mothers.

Speaker 8 And you are afraid that she's going to turn into a vindictive person who wants to turn into a vampire in order to cause harm.

Speaker 2 Is that correct?

Speaker 44 I need to to stop that from happening at all costs. Yeah.

Speaker 7 Let me give you some advice before.

Speaker 70 When are you getting married?

Speaker 44 It's unclear at this time.

Speaker 46 Definitely getting foggier.

Speaker 18 All right. Here's the thing.
Specificity is the soul of monster hunting.

Speaker 19 If I were to rule in your favor, Graham, what would you have me rule?

Speaker 89 That it's just a...

Speaker 44 a standing policy amongst the relationship that if one of us were to be turned into a vampire, the other one would take it upon themselves to take care of them, you know, for the safety of family,

Speaker 24 pets, you know,

Speaker 8 TCB, Lightning Bolt, Elvis Presley, the whole nine yards.

Speaker 34 And Paige, if you are indeed human now, what would you have me rule going forward if I were to find in your favor?

Speaker 38 I actually just want your opinion. It's been an argument for so long.

Speaker 38 And if you say, I trust you, I trust your judgment, if you say it's a bad idea and you should slay someone who becomes a vampire and not hesitate,

Speaker 38 then I'm ready to hear that. Conversely, if you think that he should

Speaker 38 apply his intelligence and care to the situation to assess and then decide what to happen, I'm okay with that too. Honestly, both ways are okay with that.

Speaker 54 Can you, you've not been,

Speaker 33 I'll be honest with you.

Speaker 22 You've not been very good with your evidence so far.

Speaker 2 It has been

Speaker 35 really immaterial. I mean,

Speaker 83 almost like an incandescent evil vapor, which

Speaker 63 vampires can turn into.

Speaker 24 But

Speaker 33 please get, I want you to consider giving me some real evidence here.

Speaker 20 Can you give me evidence?

Speaker 41 Something in Graham's nature that convinces you that were you to turn undead and evil, that he could bring you back, not to humanity, but to decency?

Speaker 1 Is he capable of that?

Speaker 22 Is he that kind of guy?

Speaker 38 I'd say yes, he is a wonderful storyteller, and I think if he found the right...

Speaker 13 So was Braham Stoker, ma'am.

Speaker 72 Sorry, please go on.

Speaker 38 He's a wonderful storyteller. He's a writer.
And I feel like if anybody could say something to me to bring me back, to turn it around, to make me remember what's important, it's him.

Speaker 20 What do you think he would say?

Speaker 38 You have to feed the cats.

Speaker 84 I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

Speaker 7 I'm going to go into my Vancouver chambers now.

Speaker 18 I'll be back in a moment with my decision.

Speaker 8 Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Speaker 8 Graham, how do you feel about your chances?

Speaker 10 I don't know.

Speaker 44 I haven't really got the chance to say much, so

Speaker 25 I don't know.

Speaker 8 Do you think you're even capable of taking care of a vampire if you needed to?

Speaker 44 Definitely, yeah. I think about it a lot.

Speaker 8 Paige, how are you feeling about your chances?

Speaker 38 I'm mixed.

Speaker 38 You know what?

Speaker 38 I have all of the emotions at once. I don't know what I'm feeling right now.

Speaker 8 We'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome back to the stage Judge John Hodgman.

Speaker 18 Patient Graham, you may be seated.

Speaker 13 So

Speaker 66 the thing of it is,

Speaker 25 how do I?

Speaker 11 It's a hard one, Jesse Thorne.

Speaker 35 Vampires.

Speaker 8 Hey, you rule against the Draculas, that's what I say.

Speaker 20 I know that that's your point of view, but I have to be impartial.

Speaker 12 I have to weigh both sides of the completely fictitious non-argument.

Speaker 2 One thing that I did not get into here was your willingness to

Speaker 65 take care of the vampire.

Speaker 73 Yes.

Speaker 35 And part of the reason is the taking care of a vampire, that euphemism that you're using.

Speaker 34 There's no room for euphemism in monster slaying.

Speaker 2 And if you do any, the smallest amount of research into what it takes to

Speaker 39 end a vampire.

Speaker 81 You can't kill it, it's already undead.

Speaker 77 You know what I mean?

Speaker 43 That's why I'm not saying killing.

Speaker 7 We're talking about wooden stakes.

Speaker 63 We're talking about burying upside down.

Speaker 37 I mean, the list goes on and it's quite gruesome.

Speaker 77 And it's fun

Speaker 90 in a Halloween-y context, in a horror movie context.

Speaker 65 But even when in jest, even when hypothetically applied to the person you're going to marry, it gets weird to talk about.

Speaker 27 A little bit.

Speaker 78 Yeah, a little bit.

Speaker 32 Now,

Speaker 70 between you and me, and everyone here.

Speaker 8 And everyone listening at home.

Speaker 11 And everyone listening at home.

Speaker 80 If it were your future mother-in-law

Speaker 74 who got dracked,

Speaker 81 I mean, then I think I would have to get together with you and go, this is a worldwide problem.

Speaker 5 She is an open force of evil in this world.

Speaker 50 But even then, it would be extremely hard to go through the process.

Speaker 19 Because, I mean, right now in her human form, she's lovely, feisty, and only a little bloodthirsty.

Speaker 23 Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 41 Now, I have not seen all the horror movies you have, but Draculas are not borgs.

Speaker 18 My basic understanding is they retain their personality.

Speaker 45 I know you want to jump in here in a second.

Speaker 18 I'm going to give you a chance to.

Speaker 47 But they retain their personality.

Speaker 81 They just got to drink blood.

Speaker 7 And over time, because they're immortal and their lives are so different from normal humans, they start to dissociate from humanity more and more and more and more.

Speaker 63 Is that not correct, sir?

Speaker 8 Like Larry King.

Speaker 44 I mean, like Larry King, though, you have to factor in the idea of, you know, the soul. Are they even still there anymore? Is that even them?

Speaker 44 Or are they just using this personality as a shell to carry out their blood-sucking ways?

Speaker 21 Again, a question that pesters every marriage.

Speaker 2 One of the things that is challenging when you enter into a marriage, even just a regular old human one, is that people do change and for time to time become unrecognizable to you.

Speaker 43 People do.

Speaker 27 All right.

Speaker 10 Fair enough.

Speaker 11 Even though

Speaker 30 Paige comes from a rather insidious bloodline, as shown this very evening.

Speaker 74 Even though she has used the search for justice as an opportunity to wreak vengeance upon her friends and their poor paper-mâché to cause harm.

Speaker 16 Even though she refused to even

Speaker 29 explain what she was going to do to get around the drinking blood problem.

Speaker 37 Maybe because she doesn't want to admit, Toe Cutter is going to go first.

Speaker 37 Ah!

Speaker 45 She covers her mouth out of shock or to hide fangs.

Speaker 16 I believe

Speaker 22 that unlike her mother, she does not want to be a Dracula.

Speaker 85 And I believe that if she were turned, she would fight it.

Speaker 63 And I believe that it is your responsibility as her fiancé and I hope eventually husband that should should she turn track, it would be your job to take care of her.

Speaker 15 Like make her soup.

Speaker 9 Make her blood soup.

Speaker 75 You're making this commitment.

Speaker 19 You have to see the person you love through their worst.

Speaker 81 I mean, this is a hypothetical, right?

Speaker 67 But

Speaker 63 I dare say there are situations where people choose to spend their lives with someone else, and they do become unknown to them through

Speaker 7 illness or mental illness or physical illness or accidents and everything else.

Speaker 63 You know, devastating stuff can happen.

Speaker 94 And

Speaker 83 it is your responsibility as spouse, as life partner, however you want to call it, to be with them and to help them and to take care of them as long as they live, even unto immortality.

Speaker 2 And then if a time were to come, and this has gotten pretty grim, but we are talking about Draculus after all.

Speaker 55 Yeah, we hate Draculus.

Speaker 32 And if a time were to come,

Speaker 22 if a spouse were to become so incapacitated that they had no quality of life anymore, and they could communicate that they felt that way, then that responsibility changes, obviously.

Speaker 59 But day one of Draculism, you're getting out the stakes.

Speaker 46 No, sir, no, that is not your responsibility.

Speaker 7 You are not a monster, even though she might be.

Speaker 55 Retain your humanity, take care of her, figure out some blood solution.

Speaker 44 I mean, I was always willing to give some sort of cursory period to look into if there was some sort of head vanity.

Speaker 75 That is not what you said.

Speaker 44 I didn't say anything.

Speaker 84 No, and that's the other thing:

Speaker 75 You're too sweet and shy to be a von Helsing.

Speaker 14 You, your job should

Speaker 77 Paige become a Dracula.

Speaker 36 And this goes both ways.

Speaker 8 You know, what if he becomes a Dracula?

Speaker 2 It's your job too.

Speaker 28 It's not a gender role thing.

Speaker 1 It's just

Speaker 24 friends and partners.

Speaker 11 Your job is to protect her from the real Van Helsings, the truly drac bloodthirsty killers who are out there.

Speaker 8 Shut shoes, Jesse Thorne.

Speaker 75 Thorne.

Speaker 59 Should Paige become a Dracula?

Speaker 8 She is not your enemy.

Speaker 75 Bailiff Jesse Thorne

Speaker 7 is coming after your family.

Speaker 92 Is that like a service he offers?

Speaker 75 I find in Paige's favor, may your love live forever and ever.

Speaker 17 And Paige's mom, I'm on your side.

Speaker 2 Please don't

Speaker 45 please don't come for me in the night.

Speaker 46 This is the sound of a gap.

Speaker 18 Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Speaker 8 Thank you to Andreas Meyer for naming this case. Graham and Paige, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Speaker 57 Graham and Paige, ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 8 You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.
Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Speaker 8 Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

Speaker 95 The Judge John Hodgman podcast, also brought to you this week by Lisa.

Speaker 96 Jesse Thorne, you know that I sleep every night. in Brooklyn, New York on a Lisa legend chill mattress.
I thought I didn't need a new mattress. Boy, was I wrong.

Speaker 96 And I'm going to tell you right now, Jesse, holidays are approaching.

Speaker 96 I didn't put it on my list. I bought one with my own money so I can sleep on it in Maine.
That's right. Another Lisa Legend chill is wending its way to my slumberland as we speak.

Speaker 96 And I could not be more excited. It is my favorite holiday gift to myself.

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Speaker 96 That's lisa.com, promo code JJHO.

Speaker 95 The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Quince.

Speaker 96 From Mongolian cashmere sweaters to Italian wool coats to my beloved Cotton Piquet overshirt, of which I own many copies. Copies, editions, colorways, examples.
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Speaker 96 I love the stuff that I get from Quince.

Speaker 96 I was just saying to my friend Chuck Bryant of another podcast: not only do I get lots of compliments every time I wear my Quince items, indeed, he complimented me on my beautiful wide whale, comfy, corduroy denim-style jacket.

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Quince.com slash jjh-o.

Speaker 88 We have a wonderful musical guest from right here in British Columbia, and I think it would be a really wonderful time to hear from her.

Speaker 47 Jesse, would you give her an introduction befitting of her stature and talent and skill and wonderfulness?

Speaker 8 Absolutely. She's fresh off a tour of India.
She's a host on CBC's Radio 3. Her last album, Young Mopes, was long listed for the Polaris Music Prize.
Please welcome to the stage Louise Burns.

Speaker 8 Louise Burns, ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 8 In the night, I see

Speaker 8 all the voices calling, calling for me.

Speaker 8 I still believe

Speaker 8 there's a place in the ground where I will be,

Speaker 8 and so it goes.

Speaker 27 You'll spend your life spinning out of control.

Speaker 27 Then you know

Speaker 57 You'll spent your life chasing after a ghost

Speaker 57 Somewhere in the night

Speaker 57 I was yours, all yours, and you were mine

Speaker 57 It felt so bright

Speaker 57 Till it made like stars into the night,

Speaker 57 and so it goes.

Speaker 57 You spend your life spinning out of control.

Speaker 57 Then you know

Speaker 57 you spent your life chasing after a ghost.

Speaker 57 Oh,

Speaker 57 who's the madman

Speaker 57 who may believe that everything's alright?

Speaker 57 Oh,

Speaker 57 who's the bad man

Speaker 82 who may believe that everything's just fine?

Speaker 82 Yeah.

Speaker 82 In the night, I sing

Speaker 82 all the voices calling, calling for me.

Speaker 82 I still believe

Speaker 82 there's a base in the ground for you and me,

Speaker 82 and so it goes.

Speaker 82 You spend your life spinning out of control.

Speaker 82 Then you know

Speaker 57 you spent your life chasing after a ghost.

Speaker 57 So it goes.

Speaker 57 You spend your life spinning out of control.

Speaker 57 Then you know

Speaker 57 you spend your life chasing after a ghost.

Speaker 57 It's where I want you to be

Speaker 57 when I'm worrying about the days, babies that are coming

Speaker 57 Though

Speaker 57 destiny is to marry the road, you will run and you will roll forever and ever

Speaker 57 I've got a lot

Speaker 57 to lose, you said, and a lot

Speaker 57 for the win this time. So you stopped, you stopped running.

Speaker 57 And it feels

Speaker 57 like a dream

Speaker 57 forever and ever

Speaker 57 forever and ever

Speaker 57 make it feel

Speaker 57 like a dream

Speaker 57 We'll be together

Speaker 57 forever and ever

Speaker 57 forever and ever

Speaker 57 Stay

Speaker 57 even when you go away

Speaker 57 in your mind, you're on a flame.

Speaker 57 I don't mind

Speaker 57 that the skies

Speaker 57 go from golden to black

Speaker 57 as I watch you running back into the night.

Speaker 57 I've got a lot

Speaker 57 to lose, you said I'm not

Speaker 57 gonna win this time. So we stopped, we stopped coming

Speaker 57 and it feels

Speaker 57 like a dream

Speaker 57 forever and ever

Speaker 57 forever and ever

Speaker 57 make it feel

Speaker 57 like a dream

Speaker 57 we'll be together

Speaker 57 forever and ever

Speaker 57 forever and ever

Speaker 57 How many times

Speaker 57 do I have to tell you stop wandering around

Speaker 57 You won't do any better

Speaker 57 And all of these bullets

Speaker 57 That burn through our trenches They can hurt us when we're down

Speaker 57 Building our own defenses

Speaker 57 And even if you're trying

Speaker 57 to see what I'm saying,

Speaker 57 I call the shots,

Speaker 57 but baby, build defenses.

Speaker 57 I hope this is the end

Speaker 57 of these heavy, heavy times.

Speaker 57 Cause I need a bit of lightness.

Speaker 57 I need a bit of lightness.

Speaker 57 Hey,

Speaker 57 hey.

Speaker 57 I need a bit of lightness.

Speaker 57 Hey,

Speaker 57 hey.

Speaker 57 I need a bit of lightness.

Speaker 8 Louise Burns, ladies and gentlemen, you can find her online at louise-burns.com. Keep an eye out for that new album coming out later this year.
Thanks to Louise for joining us tonight.

Speaker 97 If you like too many podcasts, you'll love SoundTeap with John Lick Roberts. It's got clips from all your favorite podcasts, such as Diary of a Tiny CEO.

Speaker 10 Leonard Sprague, tell me how you make your money.

Speaker 70 I go to the beach and I steal people's towels.

Speaker 97 Remember armor.

Speaker 98 Do you remember the trend of everyone whacking themselves on the head with hammers and mallets when they wanted to lose weight?

Speaker 97 And LT Jom's lobbily songs. I'm here today with Kiki D.

Speaker 8 Hello, Kiki D.

Speaker 38 Hello, Elton.

Speaker 97 There's dozens of episodes to catch up on and brand new episodes going out right now. So if you want far, far, far too many podcasts, then look for Sound Teap on maximum fun.

Speaker 10 Boop, boop.

Speaker 38 All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show. Let's learn everything.
So let's do a quick progress check. Have we learned about quantum physics?

Speaker 8 Yes, episode 59.

Speaker 38 We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we? Yes, we have. Same episode, actually.
Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Speaker 10 Episode 64.

Speaker 38 So how close are we to learning everything?

Speaker 38 Bad news. We still haven't learned everything yet.

Speaker 82 Oh, we're ruined!

Speaker 38 No, no, no, it's good news as well. There is still a lot to learn.
Woo! I'm Dr. Ella Hubber.

Speaker 10 I'm regular Tom Lawrence.

Speaker 38 I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

Speaker 38 And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Speaker 65 Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Speaker 59 Bailiff Jesse, we have another friend of the court here at the Rio Theater in Vancouver right now.

Speaker 1 Is that correct?

Speaker 18 Should we invite him to join us on this next segment?

Speaker 8 Please give a welcome to Mr. Dave Shumka.

Speaker 56 Shumka, Shumka, Shumka, Shumka, Shumka, Shumka, Shumka, Shumka, Shumka.

Speaker 20 Hi, we have a seat for you and a microphone.

Speaker 83 It's designated Shumka phone.

Speaker 92 God forbid a guy without a beard comes on stage tonight.

Speaker 8 You know what I predicted?

Speaker 16 I didn't even say, God forbid, a white guy with a beard.

Speaker 8 John, you know what I predicted earlier? I said, Dave's going to come out here. This is before I saw Dave.
He's going to be looking all handsome. He's going to be wearing a nice sweater.
Yeah.

Speaker 8 Look at this guy.

Speaker 10 Look at this son of a gun.

Speaker 11 Yeah.

Speaker 59 Beautiful zip front sweater.

Speaker 17 Oh, it zips from the bottom and the top.

Speaker 8 I didn't know you had a sweater act.

Speaker 41 Dave, the last time I was in Vancouver, I stopped by your basement where we recorded an episode of Stop Podcasting Yourself.

Speaker 20 And didn't we have the nicest time?

Speaker 57 We sure did.

Speaker 9 Yeah, we did. We absolutely did.

Speaker 30 And you were the one who introduced me to a garment that I had no familiarity with before, which is the Cowichan sweater.

Speaker 60 The sweater that is made by Indigenous peoples traditionally in British Columbia.

Speaker 78 Except the zipper.

Speaker 92 I think they get the zipper from China.

Speaker 8 You want to give credit where credit is due here.

Speaker 92 Who wears the YKK Corporation in on this?

Speaker 76 Well, I mean, you know, Canada is a diverse culture.

Speaker 7 But I went out to go get one of these Cowichan sweaters after that show.

Speaker 1 I went straight to the thrift store and got some beautiful.

Speaker 53 Am I pronouncing it correctly?

Speaker 14 Thrift store.

Speaker 15 Never can tell. Never can tell.

Speaker 13 Everything's a little different here. Sorry.

Speaker 80 And I got my son a beautiful, appropriately child-sized Cowichen sweater with horses on the front.

Speaker 18 I mean, this thing's a work of art.

Speaker 72 And I brought it.

Speaker 18 I was so happy to bring it to him.

Speaker 1 And I said,

Speaker 19 here.

Speaker 33 And he said no

Speaker 92 he said I don't even need to put that on to know that is uncomfortable yeah they they I have never owned desperately scratchy they look they look scratchy but they're I believe they're water

Speaker 10 water repellent well yeah

Speaker 10 they're absorbent I think

Speaker 81 they're water repellent to a depth of one millimeter yeah I think they're pretty water repellent but they also like gain weight as as it rains I eventually we I he would not wear it, and I was so sad because it's such a handsome thing.

Speaker 35 And finally, I had to pay him money to wear it.

Speaker 17 We went out one night. I said, You should wear that sweater.

Speaker 66 He's like, again, father.

Speaker 49 No, that's how I insisted he called me father.

Speaker 69 And I said, I'll pay you $30.

Speaker 1 And he said, sure.

Speaker 25 Wow.

Speaker 78 Why did you, what did the sweater cost?

Speaker 53 I don't remember.

Speaker 28 And I don't know what would be a funnier thing to say.

Speaker 92 More or less than 30.

Speaker 41 I think it was more than 30.

Speaker 53 It was a nice...

Speaker 37 We've got it in a, we've got it stored in a cedar closet.

Speaker 92 Yeah, you got it vacuumed so it can be.

Speaker 8 In case you ever shrink.

Speaker 11 Yeah.

Speaker 18 So it can be rejected by my grandchildren

Speaker 17 and carry on a proud British Columbian drink.

Speaker 92 Would you have worn it as a, I don't know how old your son is, 20-year-old?

Speaker 49 Would I have worn it?

Speaker 12 Yeah. No, no.

Speaker 22 I mean, at this time, he was 12.

Speaker 1 When I was 12, I was strictly a smoking jacket man.

Speaker 75 So

Speaker 63 we have dispensed some justice.

Speaker 57 Yeah.

Speaker 87 But

Speaker 6 you may have noticed there is still a little injustice left in the world

Speaker 17 that we are going to solve right now.

Speaker 8 To the best of our ability. That's right.

Speaker 81 But we've got to do it fast because time.

Speaker 8 is of the essence. You want me to put 15 minutes on the clock?

Speaker 75 Yeah, we're going to do a segment now called Swift Justice.

Speaker 18 We're going to hear as many cases as we can in 15 minutes.

Speaker 18 So if you're ready to start the timer, and Shumka, you're going to weigh in with your own expertise and your own sense of justice as needed, okay?

Speaker 16 Got it. Here we go.
Ready and begin.

Speaker 8 Please welcome Rachel and Andrew.

Speaker 62 Rachel

Speaker 39 and Andrew.

Speaker 8 Let the record reflect that Andrew is a white guy with a beard.

Speaker 66 Rachel, you have brought this case before me, seeking justice.

Speaker 1 What is the justice that you seek?

Speaker 38 So Andrew and I go out to dinner quite a bit.

Speaker 11 So you know each other?

Speaker 14 Yeah, we're married.

Speaker 86 What is your relationship?

Speaker 27 We're married. Oh, sorry, I didn't hear that.

Speaker 38 So when we go out to dinner, usually a lot of the times we share food so we can try more things. But when we don't, it'll be because I say, I really want to eat that and I want to eat all of it.

Speaker 38 So when

Speaker 38 we go to dinner.

Speaker 43 That's all I ever say.

Speaker 38 Right?

Speaker 38 So then,

Speaker 38 Andrew will A, always make me order first.

Speaker 53 Okay.

Speaker 38 B, never tell me what he's going to order. And C,

Speaker 38 he won't order the same thing as me, even if it's what he really, really wants.

Speaker 99 Ah, why not, Andrew?

Speaker 35 I want to try more things.

Speaker 38 The problem is, is that he will try what I had and then always complain after that he should have had what I had. And he could have.
He could have had the same thing as me.

Speaker 30 So you're mad at him because he, A, defers to you and you order first.

Speaker 38 Which I think is lovely. I think that's a really nice gesture.
It's

Speaker 71 an old-fashioned

Speaker 57 chivalry.

Speaker 58 Yeah, right.

Speaker 18 And then whatever you order, he'll order something different because he doesn't want to order the same thing as you.

Speaker 73 Exactly. Right.

Speaker 43 But then he'll be a little bit different. Because that's copying and that's weird.

Speaker 18 And then he'll order something else that's bad.

Speaker 25 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 61 Yeah. All right.

Speaker 29 So why won't you order just the thing you want?

Speaker 8 I want to try more things.

Speaker 44 It's purely tactical.

Speaker 60 Rachel, does he ever say anything else?

Speaker 10 Sometimes.

Speaker 18 For those of you listening at home, this guy is like a Cheshire cat over here.

Speaker 80 He's just sitting over here, a really unnerving smile behind a ginger beard.

Speaker 45 And anytime I look at him, he goes, I want to try more things.

Speaker 55 So, what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor?

Speaker 18 I mean, I don't understand what your standing is here in this case.

Speaker 24 Why does this harm you in any way?

Speaker 38 Well, I would like Andrew to enjoy himself. So, I'd like him to order the thing he wants to order.

Speaker 7 Like, give me an example of a thing where you ordered it and you realized after the fact that he really wanted it.

Speaker 33 What was the food?

Speaker 38 Like, every single time we go out to dinner.

Speaker 23 Yeah, I know, but I'm asking you to narrow it down just for the sake of stuff.

Speaker 38 Beet salad with pistachios and goat cheese and honey chili drizzle.

Speaker 34 And that's what you ordered and he really wanted it and later on.

Speaker 38 After he tasted the, you know, because he wanted to try more things.

Speaker 10 I want my tea to be pink. Right.

Speaker 10 So, yeah.

Speaker 11 Oh, I want to briefly worry that I have blood in my liver.

Speaker 8 Isn't that what? Don't you ever eat beet salad and then you forget that you ate beets and then later you're absolutely convinced you have internal bleeding.

Speaker 12 That happened to me in Australia, and I went to the doctor.

Speaker 71 I was so disoriented because I had flown to Australia and

Speaker 50 I had beets somewhere, and then bad things happened.

Speaker 8 Up is down, the day is hello, Tims are Tams.

Speaker 17 I'm as far away from my family as I've ever been.

Speaker 10 There's blood in my pee, and it's going the wrong way down the toilet. Right.

Speaker 10 Doctor,

Speaker 10 will I be able to play the piano?

Speaker 8 Shumka,

Speaker 10 that's not a knife. This is a knife.

Speaker 7 I want to try more things.

Speaker 92 It is weird to order the same thing as your partner because you lose face in the eyes of the waiter.

Speaker 8 Yeah, the waiter.

Speaker 27 I didn't know that was a factor.

Speaker 8 I think you naturally assume that you feel like the waiter will assume that you are a couple that only eats that dish.

Speaker 8 Yeah, but who...

Speaker 8 They're one of those beat couples.

Speaker 92 Like if you go to one of those restaurants that only has macaroni and cheese and they have like 10 kinds, but you have to get the same kind of macaroni and cheese, gross.

Speaker 29 Let me understand.

Speaker 7 Is this a real thing that Andrew will defer to you?

Speaker 50 You order what you want.

Speaker 47 He'll try it and then he'll complain that he didn't get it?

Speaker 11 Yeah. All right.

Speaker 24 No more complaining.

Speaker 37 You made your choice to not get it.

Speaker 70 You don't get, you know, you get the beets.

Speaker 20 I can't think of some.

Speaker 15 You made your beet salad.

Speaker 76 Now your pea is red.

Speaker 10 That's how it goes.

Speaker 84 Everyone knows that phrase.

Speaker 11 So that's

Speaker 47 what you find in your favor.

Speaker 62 I will also say this.

Speaker 30 You got to just order.

Speaker 34 A hard thing about being human is getting in touch with what you really want.

Speaker 39 Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 70 And I think right now what you want is

Speaker 21 to try more things.

Speaker 79 But you've now tried a lot of different things.

Speaker 7 And whether you're selecting from a menu at a restaurant, which is a wonderful thing to do, or how you're going to spend your day, or whether you're going to read a book, or watch a movie, or do the crossroad puzzle, or whether you're going to take a walk, or whether you're going to, what your job is going to be, what your life is going to be, it's hard to get in touch with what you really, really want.

Speaker 53 And I feel that your I Want to Try More Things is a cover for not getting in touch with what you want to eat, at least in this restaurant capacity.

Speaker 41 I don't know if this, does this trouble him in any other things?

Speaker 81 Does he have trouble?

Speaker 25 Yeah, see?

Speaker 87 Time to tune into what you really want.

Speaker 22 And if what you really want is what she's ordering, I don't care, Shimka.

Speaker 29 The waiter is not your husband or wife or spouse or partner.

Speaker 39 The waiter is just someone you should tip well and be nice to, even if they think you're dumb and unimaginative.

Speaker 59 Live your life the way you need to live your life and eat the food that you need to eat and take the time to figure out what you want to eat and don't be embarrassed about it.

Speaker 70 And don't and don't complain when you don't like what you got.

Speaker 31 And

Speaker 63 don't eat off each other's plates.

Speaker 20 It's gross. Too much spit.

Speaker 10 All right.

Speaker 47 I find it Rachel's favorite.

Speaker 8 Rachel and Andrew. Our next litigants, Amy and Jake.
Amy and Jake, please welcome them to the stage.

Speaker 39 Amy and Jake, Hi.

Speaker 74 Who brings this case before me?

Speaker 92 Is that a beard?

Speaker 28 Yeah.

Speaker 76 Just so you know, Jake has a beard.

Speaker 15 It's coming in nicely.

Speaker 93 Thank you. You're welcome.

Speaker 8 I appreciate it.

Speaker 7 Amy or Jake, who brings this case before me?

Speaker 38 I bring this case before you.

Speaker 63 And what is your complaint, Amy?

Speaker 38 Every time we move into a new house, and we did just move into a new house,

Speaker 38 thank you. He finds a really big empty wall in the house, usually the living room or the dining room, and wants to put a giant world map on the wall.

Speaker 25 Ah.

Speaker 38 And I would like to not do that.

Speaker 29 So obviously you live together.

Speaker 38 Are you married? Yes, we are married.

Speaker 76 Very good.

Speaker 7 And I take it your objection to the world map is that the Mercator projection isn't accurate.

Speaker 87 It makes...

Speaker 84 It makes the United States look large and Africa look small in comparison.

Speaker 22 The Robinson projection is really what you need to go for. Which projection?

Speaker 76 The Robinson projection.

Speaker 63 The Robinson projection?

Speaker 18 Yeah.

Speaker 11 Well, they're all faulty to some degree, but

Speaker 23 what's the deal with the Robinson?

Speaker 40 We're going to nerd out about Matt's here

Speaker 1 with Jake for a sec.

Speaker 22 Tell me about the Robinson projection.

Speaker 28 I don't know that one.

Speaker 8 Well, the Robinson's a good compromise between Mercator, straight lines, easy to understand,

Speaker 25 and round.

Speaker 32 Right. So that's the one with the rounded edges?

Speaker 45 Gotcha.

Speaker 18 Kind of looks like the Batman symbol.

Speaker 49 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 25 Okay, I got you. All right, yeah.

Speaker 7 Is that the one you want to put up in your dining room?

Speaker 8 I haven't decided which projection is best for our but we're talking about a full wall.

Speaker 27 Big wall. Big wall.

Speaker 99 Do you get a new map every time you move?

Speaker 65 I've gotten zero maps so far.

Speaker 10 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 26 Oh, good.

Speaker 45 I think that's the point, Shemka.

Speaker 29 I don't think he's ever gotten a map on any of these walls.

Speaker 8 Is this an interior decoration thing, or do you need a place to plan your troop movements?

Speaker 10 Yugoslavia has fallen!

Speaker 59 Yeah, what are you going to do with the map?

Speaker 10 Pins? Push pins?

Speaker 8 I think a map is a great way to inspire you to do cool things. A map teaches you.

Speaker 24 Like learn the names of rivers. Correct?

Speaker 8 It teaches you where places are, it shows you how to get there, and it inspires you to go.

Speaker 25 Yeah.

Speaker 30 It's too bad there isn't a computer program.

Speaker 26 Shows you how to get there.

Speaker 26 Wait, wait, are you...

Speaker 11 How does your world map have like streets that you need to turn onto?

Speaker 38 Okay, okay. So, back when we first

Speaker 38 started dating about 15 years ago,

Speaker 38 his little bachelor pad, he used to get, you know, the maps that you used to be able to get when you went to like a AAA or a BCAA? You used to be able to get those free road maps.

Speaker 38 He used to get those.

Speaker 43 I have no idea what you're talking about, baby.

Speaker 38 Really? You don't know?

Speaker 8 Yeah, if you're a member of the Automobile Association, you can go into the office and request any road maps you want, and they will give them to you for free.

Speaker 8 It's how my dad planned our minor league baseball tour when I was 12.

Speaker 38 Yeah, and you keep them in your car. They're not decorative, but he used to put them

Speaker 48 on the wall. Big unfolding maps.

Speaker 57 Yeah, yeah, yeah. With creases and everything.
Yeah.

Speaker 38 So he used to use them as decor. So that's why I'm going to go to the bathroom.

Speaker 49 At his bachelor pad. Yeah.

Speaker 29 And yet you still married him.

Speaker 54 This monster who is curious about the world.

Speaker 38 Only after he took down the maps.

Speaker 59 Yeah. Why do you dislike them so much?

Speaker 38 Well, I'm very particular about interior decor, and I don't think that a giant world map would look good in one of our main living spaces.

Speaker 38 I also think that anyone could get a world map. Like, you could just go to a store and buy a world map, or you could go online and buy a map.

Speaker 11 I know one person who, to date, has not been able to have a world map.

Speaker 10 But anyone could do it.

Speaker 38 It's just, it's not a cool thing to do.

Speaker 8 I mean, you want your decor to reflect physical challenges?

Speaker 38 Well, most of the art we have in our house, we usually will go on vacation somewhere and we'll buy like a local artist's print or painting or something like that.

Speaker 38 Like something we actually went and bought that means something to us. Sure.
And we actually do have a few smaller maps that we bought.

Speaker 38 One, it's a map of the Dalmatian coast that we got when we were in Croatia.

Speaker 25 That's a part of the world.

Speaker 10 Yes. Right, okay.
Yes.

Speaker 38 So very specific to the place we went, a map of the place we went. And we also have a vintage map of Cape Cod that we got one time when we were in Massachusetts.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I like Massachusetts.

Speaker 2 It's a part of New England. That's a region of the northeastern United States.

Speaker 24 Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's a commonwealth that I grew up in.

Speaker 38 It's lovely. Yeah.

Speaker 38 So I don't mind those maps because those are representative of places that we've actually been. But we have to.

Speaker 22 They have some, like a generic world map feels a little like classroom-y.

Speaker 38 It feels really just basic.

Speaker 38 It's not meaningful.

Speaker 40 And

Speaker 22 how much time do we have left on this one?

Speaker 92 What about, have you ever seen one of those

Speaker 92 world map shower curtains? Smells like a beach ball, kind of does the same thing.

Speaker 38 Also basic.

Speaker 40 And

Speaker 73 I'm sorry.

Speaker 8 Amy, I wouldn't have brought this up if you hadn't brought it on yourself, but are you wearing a scarf with pictures of cats on it?

Speaker 8 Yes.

Speaker 8 I'm not saying it's not a cute scarf. I'm just saying.

Speaker 8 Can I get you a latte or anything?

Speaker 38 Actually, I had Starbucks before we came in, so I'm good.

Speaker 38 And

Speaker 38 one other reason as to why I don't want the map, Jake is very smart and he knows a lot of things about map projections and stuff.

Speaker 10 I've noticed. Yeah.

Speaker 38 And sometimes he forgets that we're not a classroom and he begins to lecture me about things like geography. And I don't want to hear lectures about the world.

Speaker 18 Do you think that Jake's not having a huge map in the dining room is ever going to stop that behavior?

Speaker 38 I think that he will lecture,

Speaker 38 the amount of lectures will go up if we have a giant map on the world.

Speaker 19 What do you do for a living, Jake?

Speaker 92 I do

Speaker 8 operations analysis. It's super boring.

Speaker 38 He also has a podcast.

Speaker 66 All right, plug your podcast.

Speaker 27 Maps with Jake.

Speaker 61 If you're interested in Japanese. Can you name all the tributaries

Speaker 26 of the Monongahela River?

Speaker 10 I can. I'm Jake.

Speaker 56 Welcome to my podcast.

Speaker 4 Get out your dining room maps.

Speaker 79 We're going to go on a journey.

Speaker 79 We're going to go on a journey together.

Speaker 17 All of us men in our dining rooms with our maps.

Speaker 32 By the way, it's me, Jake, saying again to all of my listeners, I'm sorry you were divorced.

Speaker 13 Do you have kids? No.

Speaker 41 Do you think you might have kids? No.

Speaker 65 Okay.

Speaker 24 Have an incredible time.

Speaker 10 Thank you. We intend to.

Speaker 78 I have a lot of places on a map that we're needing to get to.

Speaker 21 You may not need a map because you will actually be able to travel to places if you wish for many, many times.

Speaker 17 But is there a possibility of any compromise?

Speaker 47 Do you have an office? I mean, I don't know what your new house is like.

Speaker 63 Is there a room where you would tolerate a large map and that Jake would be satisfied with a large map?

Speaker 38 Yes, he has a...

Speaker 38 So his podcast is about Mars.

Speaker 40 It's about outer space.

Speaker 38 So he has a space-themed office slash recording studio in the house.

Speaker 7 And is there a wall large enough for a super big map?

Speaker 38 Yes, but it's taken up with these sound-absorbing panels that have pictures.

Speaker 65 You need those for a podcast.

Speaker 10 That have pictures of Mars on them.

Speaker 56 I see.

Speaker 1 So you're saying he should quit his podcast and put a map in there.

Speaker 11 Can you guys survive without the money from your Mars podcast?

Speaker 10 It's very lucrative.

Speaker 38 I would accept the garage as a place

Speaker 61 for a world map.

Speaker 7 The most emasculating place of exile.

Speaker 92 Well, the garage is a good man cave. You could have like sexy maps

Speaker 8 or beer maps.

Speaker 38 He actually does want to brew beer in the garage, so he could sit and brew beer and look at his map.

Speaker 10 Go to the garage, sit and brew beer.

Speaker 11 Look at your map. I'm mad at you.

Speaker 7 I respect that you have a strong opinion on this,

Speaker 20 Amy, and yet yet I don't think you really want to be shoving Jake entirely into the garage with all of his beer and Mars and map junk.

Speaker 70 You know,

Speaker 20 your lives have to be integrated,

Speaker 86 even into areas of decor. He has to live there, too.

Speaker 38 Yeah, but he has his space room.

Speaker 34 He has his space room already.

Speaker 82 Uh-huh.

Speaker 26 Well, I mean, I've always wanted a wall-sized map.

Speaker 38 And I want him to have what he wants, but I want him to want something different.

Speaker 46 It's clear that you've given this a lot of thought.

Speaker 38 15 years worth. No, I understand.

Speaker 50 There needs to be in your future a room

Speaker 74 that is not MarsCast, that is not the garage, that is not the dining room or the living room, a room or hall or foyer,

Speaker 74 some big expanse of wall where Jake can eventually put his big map.

Speaker 50 If it is not in this house,

Speaker 18 perhaps there will be another house.

Speaker 39 At some point, Jake needs to have this.

Speaker 22 It'll never get out of his system.

Speaker 61 It's all he wants.

Speaker 18 And shoving him into the garage with it is not healthy for your relationship, in my opinion.

Speaker 29 I believe that there is a tasteful map that will make him happy.

Speaker 50 But I appreciate your strong feelings.

Speaker 7 And ultimately, sometimes you just have to defer to the strong feelings of the other person in the relationship.

Speaker 63 My old editor, Paul Tuff, his dad and stepmom had a simple way of expressing their strong feelings. They had a scale of one to ten on everything.

Speaker 18 So if they were making chicken, if like if the dad was thinking about making chicken for dinner and he was like, I want to have chicken for dinner.

Speaker 63 I'm a seven on chicken.

Speaker 50 And she would be like, well,

Speaker 47 no, he was like, how do you feel about chicken? She's like, I'm a five. Well, I'm a seven.

Speaker 12 You had chicken.

Speaker 37 It was just like, done.

Speaker 60 It was a thing.

Speaker 31 And he's like, he's like 10 on map,

Speaker 7 but you're like 25 on no map.

Speaker 50 At least in that dining room.

Speaker 47 And I appreciate that's a central place.

Speaker 11 It's very clear.

Speaker 48 So I'm going to honor your veto.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 25 But

Speaker 4 this is going to happen eventually. I know.

Speaker 14 15 years is just the beginning.

Speaker 52 It's only going to get weirder.

Speaker 19 And meanwhile, Jake, get a huge globe.

Speaker 20 It's the only appropriate representation of the Earth.

Speaker 1 Get a huge globe for your space room.

Speaker 8 It'll look good in there.

Speaker 38 He does have a Mars globe in his space room.

Speaker 11 Throw the Mars globe out the window.

Speaker 16 Earth globe. That's where you live, Jake.

Speaker 10 Come Earth Globe. Come back.
Drools, Mars, drools.

Speaker 75 Get back to Earth.

Speaker 8 Suck it, Mars.

Speaker 51 I find in favor of Amy.

Speaker 92 I would also like to point out that every person in this room is thinking, why is there a couple that has a house that has so many rooms and a garage in Vancouver?

Speaker 8 Shouldn't they be using this space for something profitable like a button-making store?

Speaker 7 So, who are the litigants who come before me now, Bailiff Jesse Thorne?

Speaker 8 Jacqueline and Anton.

Speaker 48 Jacqueline, Anton, who brings this case before me?

Speaker 1 Who seeks justice in this court?

Speaker 8 I do, Judge.

Speaker 77 Jacqueline, I presume?

Speaker 18 Yes, Antony. What is the nature of your dispute?

Speaker 91 Well, I'm a fan of Broadway musicals.

Speaker 55 Broadway Musicals.

Speaker 91 Yes.

Speaker 27 Ah,

Speaker 8 the signature tune of the hit show Broadway Musicals.

Speaker 10 It's the one you walk home humming.

Speaker 10 Anyway,

Speaker 91 and I have, we have four little kids. So unlike that last couple, we can't travel the world that easily.
And I want to help encourage them to love musicals

Speaker 91 so that we can go whenever we can.

Speaker 55 Because musicals are great. Musicals are great.

Speaker 26 Yeah, right. Exactly.

Speaker 91 I sometimes try to encourage that love of musicals by watching really bad quality bootlegs of musicals on YouTube.

Speaker 53 Oh, you're talking about people who sneak phones and

Speaker 55 I would never encourage my children to do that, and I discourage them because well, they don't, they're never going to do it because they're never going to a Broadway musical because they're in no fun city.

Speaker 26 True, but we are willing to

Speaker 91 Seattle, we've driven to Seattle a couple times. Oh, good.
You know, so we do what we can. I'm willing to take them and do what I can to spend money on it.

Speaker 91 I would never encourage them to sneak a camera into a musical.

Speaker 100 Right.

Speaker 91 But while it's on YouTube, we may as well

Speaker 26 take advantage of what you're the one.

Speaker 7 What's the ones that you've bootlegged?

Speaker 91 Well, Hamilton was on there for a while.

Speaker 53 Uh-huh.

Speaker 91 But like for like five minutes, we watched it as quick as we could. We did see it.
We saw it in Seattle. My kids haven't seen it.
I watched Deer Evan Hansen.

Speaker 91 I love Ben Platt, and there's no way to see that anymore. So that was a good one.
We saw Wicked, which we're now going to see when it comes to Seattle.

Speaker 91 So we've already seen the terrible shaky version.

Speaker 1 And what is your dispute with this,

Speaker 73 Anton?

Speaker 89 First of all, they suck the quality.

Speaker 89 Second of all, I don't.

Speaker 71 Are you a hi-fi guy?

Speaker 10 I am a hi-fi guy.

Speaker 10 I don't love.

Speaker 8 There's no stereo imaging.

Speaker 89 I don't love my children watching something that was acquired so

Speaker 89 sinisterly, I would say.

Speaker 8 Jacqueline, what's wrong with professional videos of musicals?

Speaker 8 I recently watched the production of Company with

Speaker 8 Neil Patrick Harris and Stephen Colbert and

Speaker 8 many Broadway legends as well. True.

Speaker 40 What's wrong with that? Nothing's wrong with them.

Speaker 91 They're just hard to find, especially with the newer ones.

Speaker 55 Yeah. Well,

Speaker 10 there are many.

Speaker 91 If they just would film them professionally and put them on iTunes, I'd certainly rent them.

Speaker 8 Yeah. But they don't do that.

Speaker 11 They want us to go there.

Speaker 50 Yeah.

Speaker 50 And

Speaker 7 I know that it feels

Speaker 30 like you're being iced out of an incredible once-in-a-lifetime experience.

Speaker 15 Exactly.

Speaker 36 Which you are.

Speaker 25 Yeah.

Speaker 83 But bear in mind that if they filmed them and disseminated them, people would not go to the theater and then it wouldn't happen.

Speaker 87 Yes.

Speaker 87 Well, but you know,

Speaker 60 there are arguments in both directions, too, because there are a lot of simulcast performances of plays and so forth where you can go to a theater and see a live screening of a thing happen.

Speaker 8 Yeah, they should do more of that.

Speaker 22 Yeah, they should do more of that.

Speaker 41 And also they tend to do it in pretty...

Speaker 63 pretty high quality 4K.

Speaker 20 So even Anton's nodding.

Speaker 7 He knows, see, I knew a thing, a 4K is a thing, right?

Speaker 53 That's good? It's a thing.

Speaker 11 That's pretty good, right?

Speaker 24 That's good.

Speaker 12 Is it more the bad quality of it, or is it more the nefariousness of the activity?

Speaker 89 The initial gut reaction to seeing something so poor in quality on a screen is what gets me at first.

Speaker 89 But then the thought of somebody going to a theater and then sneaking in a camera so that they could film it just seems

Speaker 89 next level bad.

Speaker 8 Can I tell you a story? I interviewed on my NBR show, Bullseye, Cassandra Peterson. You know who that is? Anybody?

Speaker 55 Cassandra Peterson? Oh, that's Elvira.

Speaker 8 Elvira, Mistress of the Dark, the amazing woman. And we booked the interview like two days before it was supposed to happen.
So I didn't have time to go to Knott's Berry Farm.

Speaker 8 It was Knott's Scary Farm. It was October.
And see Cassandra's Halloween Spooktacular, her hilarious show. And I was tearing my hair out.

Speaker 8 I'm like, I don't know how I'm going to interview her about her famous Halloween pun fest when I can't go to Anaheim or where Buena Park or wherever it is that Knott's Berry Farm is and see this show.

Speaker 8 Right.

Speaker 92 The Grove, the Arc Light, you know, LA things.

Speaker 8 Somebody's heard a podcast.

Speaker 61 Mattresses, stamps.

Speaker 8 I typed it in to YouTube.

Speaker 8 The bootlegs,

Speaker 8 first of all, she's been doing the show many years and there are many versions of the show on YouTube. The quality of these bootlegs is extraordinary.

Speaker 8 Like stunning quality, like Grateful Dead board recording quality of Elvira's Halloween puns.

Speaker 78 Bootlegs, more like boob legs.

Speaker 27 Elvira, ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 8 Puns. Award-winning podcaster, Dave Shumka.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 8 it can be used for good, I guess, is my point.

Speaker 75 So

Speaker 75 here's the thing.

Speaker 32 It is wrong to sneak cameras in.

Speaker 39 You are asked not to do it by the theater, and therefore you should not do it.

Speaker 50 You're not doing that.

Speaker 27 No. Correct?

Speaker 91 Correct. And I would never tell my children to do it.

Speaker 18 Do you explain to them that what they're watching has been obtained illegally and nefariously?

Speaker 38 Yes.

Speaker 53 All right. Well, if they know that.

Speaker 8 Do they then reply, can I just watch a real show?

Speaker 38 Some of them do. Yes.

Speaker 18 You may have heard earlier a story about my getting a couch and sweater for my son.

Speaker 38 Yes.

Speaker 33 And he would not wear it because it was uncomfortable and scratchy.

Speaker 47 And we were going out, and I said, you should wear that couch and sweater.

Speaker 33 And I'll pay you $30 to wear it.

Speaker 31 Do you know where we were going that night?

Speaker 28 The theater, I guess. Hamilton.

Speaker 11 That's right.

Speaker 10 Little play called Hamilton.

Speaker 75 And do you know what happened after we saw Hamilton?

Speaker 49 You met Lynn Manuel Miranda? Well.

Speaker 8 He already knew Lynn Manuel Miranda, who's a Judge John Hodgman listener.

Speaker 51 It weakens my knees every time I realize that Lynn Manuel Miranda sometimes listens to this podcast.

Speaker 25 Hi, Lynn.

Speaker 39 And

Speaker 12 so incredibly and unfairly, we were invited backstage after.

Speaker 63 And the gentleman who was playing King George at the time, whose name escapes me at the moment, I apologize,

Speaker 63 walked by, stopped, turned to my son, and said, that's an incredible sweater.

Speaker 1 And my son was speechless.

Speaker 50 And I said, you're goddamn right.

Speaker 47 Your father is always right.

Speaker 75 That's a story of incredible privilege.

Speaker 21 I appreciate that.

Speaker 50 Not everyone can enjoy an experience like that.

Speaker 7 Even just to go to a Broadway show itself is an incredible gift of random geography and also wealth.

Speaker 1 I think that it is wrong to bootleg those shows because you're asked not to do it.

Speaker 7 It's like taking soda water from a soda fountain at a fast food place without asking.

Speaker 29 It's probably okay in that case, but you should ask first.

Speaker 12 If you're asked not to do a thing, you shouldn't do it.

Speaker 63 But that said, said, these bootlegs are being made, and they may be the only way some people in the world are able to engage with musical theater

Speaker 28 at all.

Speaker 22 There are touring companies, you're going down to Seattle, that's good.

Speaker 1 You're introducing them to actual theater.

Speaker 69 Presumably, you are getting original cast recordings.

Speaker 41 I know that Hamilton has been recorded, filmed. That will be released eventually.

Speaker 28 And high-quality.

Speaker 17 quality stuff.

Speaker 11 Like, I think in VR.

Speaker 12 Not true.

Speaker 63 Not true.

Speaker 29 You should, to the best of your ability,

Speaker 23 invest in professional recordings of real musicals, because they're not as hard to find as all that.

Speaker 31 Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 71 But since the stuff is out there, and you're telling your kids...

Speaker 87 that it's wrong, but you're doing it anyway, which is something we have to do in times

Speaker 17 in this life,

Speaker 33 I can't find against you in this case.

Speaker 47 Instead, I would say invest as much time going to actual theater, supporting actual theater, including theater here in Vancouver.

Speaker 33 Find a non-profit theater here in Vancouver and donate some money to make up for the crime that you helped commit.

Speaker 7 But your watching those things does not encourage people to make more of them.

Speaker 20 They're going to make them anyway.

Speaker 33 They're going to post them anyway. It's just the way it is.

Speaker 70 And then move to New York.

Speaker 24 It's great.

Speaker 10 It's amazing.

Speaker 21 It's amazing.

Speaker 7 You know what that city is?

Speaker 26 Fun.

Speaker 8 And it's cheaper, too.

Speaker 84 I find in Jaclyn's favor.

Speaker 68 That's the end of Swift Justice.

Speaker 3 Hi, it's me again, John Hodgman, sending thanks to Louise Burns and Dave Schumke for joining us on stage in Vancouver. Louise Burns can be found online at louise-burns.com.

Speaker 3 That's L-O-U-I-S-E-B-U-R-N-S B-U-R-N-S dot com. You don't have to spell it hyphen, just put a hyphen there.
Dave Schunka's podcast with Graham Clark, of course, is Stop Podcasting Yourself.

Speaker 3 You know this. It's available wherever you get podcasts.
And if you don't know it, know it.

Speaker 3 In fact, if you live in Vancouver, you should know that Dave and Graham are coming back to the Rio Theater on February 17th for a live show.

Speaker 12 You should go check it out.

Speaker 3 Our thanks go out to Aaron Chapman and everyone at the Rio Theater for their help making this show happen. The show is recorded by Matthew Barnhart.
Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Speaker 3 Until the future, this is Judge John Hodgman signing off.

Speaker 21 MaximumFun.org.

Speaker 40 Comedy and culture.

Speaker 100 Artist-owned.

Speaker 72 Listener-supported.