Throwin' Bows

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

We're in chambers this week, clearing the docket.

With me, as always, the man, the myth, the legend,

Judge John Hodgman.

It took you a while to remember my name.

I've been giving you the full James Brown lately, but I forgot to.

No, that's fine.

Look, you know, we're tired.

We just got back from tour.

It was a wonderful time.

I want to say thank you to everyone who came out to our shows.

I'm now back in my permanent chambers, and everything is in good order.

I had asked Travis McElroy to come by and water the plants, and he did a great job, and he turned it into a podcast called Watering with Trav.

And

that's now number one on the podcast charts and in development for a TV comedy with Zach Graff starring.

So it's all back to normal in the world, but not all is just.

We have a few cases, just a few instances of injustice in this world, and we are about to solve them.

So let's do it, shall we?

Here's something from Christina.

My husband Joey and I like to do the New York Times crossword puzzle online.

When we're stuck, we'll often use the internet to help us fill in answers.

Will Shorts himself says it's not cheating to do so.

When I'm stuck while solving puzzles by myself, I occasionally use the check word feature on the puzzle.

This confirms whether or not the answer is correct.

You don't need to tell me, Christina.

Joey calls me a cheater when I do this.

I don't see the difference between using the internet to look things up and using the tool provided by the puzzle to confirm an answer.

Is this cheating, or am I safe to continue checking my answers and still consider myself an honorable puzzler?

So if I understand this correctly, Joey goes along with Will Shorts in saying that using the Internet,

that is, checking or confirming an answer using a search engine or a Wikipedia of some kind, is cool with him, but using the in puzzle online feature check word within the app or the website itself is uncool.

Do I understand that correctly?

That's my understanding.

Okay.

You do a crossword puzzle, Jesse?

No.

Why?

Because you value your time?

Yeah.

You don't feel like giving over huge portions of your day that you could be reading or watching important culture on

television or enjoying an opera or spending time with your children to

a game.

I think, John, we've discussed on this show in the past my

disinclination to participate in family board games because if I win I don't feel good but if I lose then I feel bad

in fact when I win I often feel bad for having beaten everyone but if I lose I feel bad because I didn't win I feel the same way about all puzzles except there's no other people involved it's just me accusing myself

So, like, if you gave me a puzzle and I couldn't figure it out, I would feel bad about that.

But if I did figure it out, I wouldn't feel good about that.

Yeah, then they're not for you.

And they're not for me either, but not because I don't love them.

I mean, it would sound like I don't love them.

But I recently went through a period of intense rediscovery of the crossword puzzle.

It had been something that I had

really enjoyed doing in my 20s when I had all the time in the world because I was immortal and could stand.

Well, I mean,

when you weren't at the club.

Right, exactly.

And I do love them, and I think they're works of art.

To me, there's nothing like crossword, but like, I understand from your point of view,

like, if I do a crossword puzzle and I can't do it, it makes me so mad.

If I do a crossword puzzle and I can do it, it makes me so happy.

I mean, there's truly fewer thrills

when I'm able to, you know, see a thing and have no idea how to solve it.

And then slowly through brute force, and I will say, using the internet,

solving some of those puzzles.

And then some of them are unsolvable.

And then you put it away.

And when you come back, your brain has changed and you can see the solution.

And then you get to the end.

You get to the end of it, especially doing it online.

I got so addicted.

to getting to that song that is at the end of the New York Times Crossword puzzle.

It's like, boom, boom, ba-dum-ba-dum-ba-dum.

This is a little jazzy public television theme that they have at the end.

I got back into it because Phil Morrison,

my good friend and the film director, and the director of the Apple Ads, came to visit us in Maine, and we were talking about the crossword puzzle.

He got us going on it again, and I was just spending so like I would wake up in the middle of the night just waiting for the next day's crossword puzzle, and then I would do it for three hours in the middle of the night, and then I'd just be waiting until the next time.

It was not healthy.

I'm just waiting on that song.

And one time, Jesse, I finished the puzzle

and I didn't hear the song.

And it's because I had muted my computer by accident.

And you know what I did?

I threw my computer into a lake of fire.

I was so angry.

And Christina is right.

In my opinion,

using the internet to confirm a guess

or to find your way to an answer that you can't possibly know because you don't know the full history of the Habsburg Empire or whatever it is.

That's great because it's the same thing our next-door neighbors, the Rosenmeyers, encouraged when they would play Scrabble with their kids, which is you're allowed to look up a word if you're a kid.

You're allowed to look in the dictionary for words that you can form with your letters because you're going to learn a bunch of words.

And using the internet to confirm answers or to find answers, you're going to learn some information.

But over time, I realized I didn't really retain a lot of information.

I think I learned something about the Volga River.

It didn't matter because all I was doing was just chasing that.

And it became unhealthy for me.

In particular, it became unhealthy for me because what Joey knows

is that unlike checking or confirming answers on the internet, using the check word feature, if you use it once within the application, it nullifies your streak.

I wasn't just living for the crossword puzzle, the one day's crossword puzzle.

I was living for the streak.

Because it's insidious.

It's not just that you solve one crossword puzzle.

They start tracking your streak, how many you solve in a row.

And when you get to a streak...

in my case of 13 days in a row,

you do not want to leave that streak.

You need to hear that

and you're willing to leave your family to do it.

You're willing to overlook your chores.

You're willing to leave your book deadline aside.

Your personal hygiene habits go out the window.

It's just about that.

And that's unhealthy.

That's unhealthy.

I had to set it aside.

I rediscovered so much in my life.

I remembered what my children looked like.

It was fantastic.

So Christina and Joey, I order you both to exercise caution and restraint.

If you're going to do this thing, do not get addicted to the streak.

Do not let it interfere with your life.

And Christina, I will say this.

Because I find the streak to be an insidious addition to the crossword puzzle experience,

I absolve you.

Joey, you do the puzzle the way you want to do the puzzle.

And Christina, you do the puzzle such that it is fun and not addictive torment to you.

Crosswords have no honor.

They only want your brain.

Do what you must to destroy crossword puzzles and solve them.

And don't let other crossword puzzle solvers shame you.

They are using the rules to make themselves feel better about their own sick addiction.

I would argue that neither the crossword puzzle nor Joey is really good for you, Christina, but that's between you and your therapist.

I find in Christina's favor, go ahead and use check word if you want, and don't listen to Joey as he tries to shame you and maybe try an acrostic sometime.

You know, John, I had a very similar situation in my own life.

What was it?

I would wake up in the middle of the night, 12 o'clock, 2 a.m., 3 a.m.

in a cold swix.

I just had to hear that music, you know, just as, just like you were describing.

Yeah.

Having to hear that music.

And I would stumble half asleep into my living room.

And then I'd drop the needle on Paul Simon's Graceland.

Katie says, when my husband cooks a pasta dish, he mixes two different kinds of pasta.

I've tried explaining you should make a dish with one kind of pasta, but he vehemently disagrees.

He started to lash out.

Last night he made a dish with three kinds of pasta: shells, radiator, and ziti.

This has gotten out of hand.

Please make him stop.

He vehemently disagrees?

Vehemently disagrees.

He literally vehemently disagrees.

Let's not even have this.

I mean, he's a monster, obviously.

I mean,

guys with new systems

are a recurring data set

on this podcast.

Guys who believe they know better

than any rule, even if it's printed on the side of a pasta box, even if science tells them

that ZD,

Shells, Radiatori, they have different cooking times.

ZD, 9 to 15 minutes.

Radiatori, 9 to 13 minutes.

Shells, I don't know, look it up.

It's printed there for a reason.

They're different shapes.

Plus, it's aesthetically...

Why am I even...

Oh!

You know this, Katie's husband.

They look different.

It's an aesthetic mess.

You can't mix ratiatori with shells.

Ziti are for baked ziti.

Basically, that's the only thing they're for.

I mean...

Pasta is a poverty food.

The reason there are so many different kinds and shapes of pasta is that

Italians without a lot of money needed to keep it interesting for themselves.

It's just, it's literally paste.

It's where we get the name.

Respect the poverty arts of ancient Italians

and treat them differently, if only for

respecting the different cooking times of the pasta.

But I feel like I've just been baited by this guy.

I think this guy just decided to throw in the ZD at the last minute because he knew he was going to get on Judge John Oshman and get my goat.

Jesse, what's your favorite shape of pasta?

Adult novelty.

Go on.

Like from a bachelorette party.

Whoa.

I didn't know that existed until now, but of course it does.

Jen is making a stunned face on the other side of the glass.

Jennifer Marlowe.

I think you probably haven't been to very many bachelorette parties, John.

I think that's the main thing they have there.

It's that, and then you get too drunk at a comedy show.

I don't go to bachelorette parties unless I'm paid to be there, if you know what I mean.

Yeah, you work as a party planner on the side.

That's right.

That's exactly right.

Jennifer Marmor,

I hate pasta.

Well, no, I don't hate it.

I love it because I love it, it tastes delicious, but I can't have it in my life

because it's too many breads.

But, Jennifer Marmer, you like pasta, right?

I love it.

What's your favorite shape of pasta?

I can't decide, right?

Because there's so many.

Adult novel.

What did he say?

Adult novelty.

No.

I like a papardelle.

Papardelli?

Sure, papardella.

Sure.

You can't decide because even though they're all made of the same

dumb essential paste of flour, egg, and water,

they're made into different shapes for different reasons.

Popperdelli's fine.

You know what my favorite kind is?

If I'm going to eat it, honestly, spaghettes.

Love it.

Spaghetti.

Simple, believable.

My wife won't eat spaghetti.

She draws the line at linguine.

And honestly, given the choice between linguine and fettuccine, she'd go fettuccine.

Too skinny.

She just doesn't like it.

It's too skinny.

She likes a wide noodle.

Yeah, she does not mess with those little worms.

Does she really hate angel hair?

She despises angel hair.

Yeah.

I went through an angel hair period in the late 80s, early 90s when angel hair pesto pasta was very popular.

You get that angel hair?

You put some sun-dried tomatoes on there.

Yeah, exactly.

Order it out of the hammock or slimmer catalog.

Yeah.

Katie, I'm so sorry that you married this horrible monster.

And I order him to respect the form.

To choose the form, as they say in the Ghostbusters, and respect that form once it is chosen.

Follow some recipes.

What he is doing is denial of science.

They have different cooking times for a reason.

Take some instruction.

Husband.

Just because you think you have a system doesn't mean you know everything.

Oh, I got to take a break, Jesse.

So mad.

Let's do it.

More items on the docket coming up in just a minute on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfund.org slash join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Let me ask you a question.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

This week we are clearing the docket and we've got something here from Joel.

My wife refuses to replace empty toilet paper rolls.

She places the new roll on the floor instead of on the holder.

I could get over this issue if it weren't for our five-year-old daughter.

Time after time, I will hear the shouts from our daughter that there's no toilet paper in sight or she can't reach the new roll on the floor.

I teach my daughter when she's in public restrooms to always check to make sure there is toilet paper before sitting down, but I never intended for her to have to do this in the safety of her own home.

I seek damages against my wife for the sake of our daughter and urge the court to order that my wife start replacing the toilet paper rolls.

Okay, so as I've said before in the podcast, I love clichés and I love

generalizations.

Everyone is different.

It is that diversity that makes the experience of meeting new people always so special and exciting.

But we've been doing this show now.

We are in our ninth year.

A lot of the cases,

despite our active and affirmative efforts to be as inclusive as possible,

different kinds of litigants, different kinds of relationships.

We certainly do not seek out at this point heteronormative husband-wife

married relationships, but we get a lot of them.

We have a lot of data sets, and as established in the pasta imbroglio that we just talked about, which

was a real thing that happened before the break, and also pasta imbroglio was should have been a banned in the 90s.

There is a trend to this scatter graph of cases of these data points, which is that in heterocouples, where there is a dude husband and a woman-wife, wife,

dudes tend to be wrong.

They have their own systems.

They have their own new weird ideas of how things should be and refuse any instruction from either their life partners or the world

about how things actually are.

So it's very rare that we get a case where in a man and woman married couple, the woman is a monster.

This is terrible.

If a toilet paper runs out, you take off the old cardboard roll, you throw it away, you put the new toilet paper on.

That's part of the job.

If you're the one who uses up that toilet paper, your job is to put a new roll of toilet paper on that thing, on the roll, on the, what would you even call it, Jesse?

I'm so upset now.

Toilet stick.

Toilet stick.

The toy toy stick.

Now, look, Joel's wife, I get it.

Replacing toilet paper is awful.

It combines two of my least favorite things.

One, leaning over.

Hate to do it.

Hate it.

Picking things up, leaning over, tying shoes, anything.

Two, dealing with springs.

There's a tension bar in those, in the toy toy stick.

And that spring's always going to jump out like a fake cobra in a can of peanut brittle.

Hats off, Paula Tompkins.

It's always going to jump out.

That spring's always going to go boing, boing, boing, off and roll across the bathroom floor.

And then you've got to bend over again to get it.

Hate it.

Hate doing it.

I hate doing it.

I understand.

But it's one of those things that you have to do.

We're trying to have have a civilization here.

Agreed entirely.

What bathroom chores do you hate aside from going to the bathroom?

Which, let's admit it, is a drag.

Emptying bathroom trash can.

Oh, yeah, right.

So little, you're so close to the things in there, and they often have blood on them.

I would say the worst is one that parents know, which is cleaning the tub with bleach when an accident happens.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, right.

That has not not been a part of my life for a long time.

Sadly, it has been a part of my life for a long time.

And will continue to be for a while still.

Yeah.

Enjoy your babies.

That's what I have to say.

Thank you.

I understand this time is precious.

There's a lot of chores that go along with owning a bathroom that are unpleasant.

But I'll tell you what, it's better than not owning a bathroom.

That's true.

So give thanks for civilization, Joel's wife, and do your job.

Christy says, Josh and I have been friends for nearly 25 years.

He came out of the closet a couple of years ago, but his group of friends is made up exclusively of cisgender straight people.

I feel it's important for Josh to have some friends in the LGBTQ community.

Some close friends of mine, Rob and Phil, are in a gay curling league.

Many of their friends participate in the league, and they're a fun, interesting group of people.

Recently, I connected Rob and Josh, and Josh agreed to attend the Curling League's meet-and-greet.

The night of the meet-and-greet, Josh bailed at the last minute.

He said he isn't a joiner and that he would have felt uncomfortable in a setting where he didn't know anyone.

I think that while it's always a little uncomfortable to venture out of your comfort zone, a brief period of awkwardness would have been worth it to meet a great group of potential new friends.

Well, look, Josh is going through a lot,

and I appreciate that that is a life transition that i know nothing about now john hold on all right who's the real expert on this here is it josh or christy

we can also stipulate that christie has not had the experience that josh is going through and that both christy and i should really refrain from judgment because it's josh's life and a big change in that life to boot

but on the other hand,

come on, Josh.

Okay, curling?

That's incredible.

That sounds really awesome, yeah.

I want to go there every weekend and watch those games.

Look, I want to go to curling anyway.

For those of you who are not aware, curling is an iced sport that is,

I was going to say quite popular.

I want to say medium to quite popular, even in its home of Canada.

It's still, I think it's, I mean, is it popular in Canada, but it's no hockey.

Is Canada the one that plays that kind of gymnasium hockey with brooms?

Well, there are brooms and curling, but that's not what you're referring to, is it?

No, it's not.

Maybe it's England where they play the weird gymnasium hockey with like four square balls and brooms.

Four square balls or four square balls?

Four square balls, which makes them very difficult to sweep.

Is that an ice sport that you're thinking of?

Why doesn't hockey have more than one puck?

That's a really good question.

That would really liven it up if there's two pucks or four pucks.

Multi-puck?

Yeah, multi-puck hockey.

Trademark.

Wrote it in a letter myself and sent it to myself already.

Don't try and steal it, everybody.

Curling, among the many varieties of both truthful and fictional ice sports that have been discussed on this program, curling is a sport that is popular to a degree in Canada and popular to a degree in northern North America, Minnesota in particular.

It is essentially petank

or

boule or a bocce.

They're all of the same kind of thing where you're trying to slide or roll a particular thing next as close as possible to a target thing, and you can knock things out from other people and so forth.

But it's played on ice, right?

So your team has a big stone that has a handle on it, and it's called the stone or the rock.

And you slide that stone, and you're trying to get it into the house, which is the target area, and get it as close to the center as possible.

And you have a number of these.

And each team takes turns trying to slide their rock into the house and get as close as possible.

And they can knock the opposing team's rocks out of the way.

And the other great part of it is does involve brooms.

You heard me mention that before.

There are brooms involved because while you're getting ready to slide this rock down the ice, Once you let it go, then your teammates come in and sweep, sweep, sweep, sweep, sweep, sweep, sweep, sweep, sweep in front of the rock as it glides.

The sweeping allows, melts the ice gently and it allows you to manipulate where it goes.

It's a spectacularly weird and wonderful sport.

And I'm all for it.

Have you been to a curling match, Jesse, in person?

No.

Me neither.

Every time I drive to Maine, there's the Belfast Curling Club.

We pass it on the way, but it never seems open and there are never any cars in the lot.

And at one of my events in Maine, some young people came up and said, We curl there every Friday.

You should come check it out.

And I said, I drive by there, and there are never any cars in the lot.

And they go, We know, but we're there.

And I'm like, Are you curling vampires or something?

And then they disappeared.

Anyway, I love curling.

I think a gay curling league sounds like the greatest thing in the world.

But I will also say this: Josh, it's your life.

Christy, do not interfere as Josh grows into the new life that he wants to have.

And Christy, if you are going to interfere, do a better job.

Because you didn't invite him to a gay curling match.

You invited him to a gay curling league meet and greet.

And no one wants to go to a meet and greet.

Meet and greets do not involve sliding a huge stone over ice.

Come on, Christy.

Invite him to a curling match and see what happens.

But if he says no, take it for an answer.

Curling,

new sponsor of the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I mean, what's telling to me, John, is that she says, I think that while it's always a little uncomfortable to venture out of your comfort zone, the brief period of awkwardness would have been worth it to meet a great group of potential new friends.

As though that is the issue that is being decided.

That is true.

That is absolutely the case.

That does not mean that she can insist her friend follow that thoughtful advice.

Right.

And beyond that, she could have gone with him and she didn't.

Yeah.

That's on her.

She's doing a bad job.

She's inviting Josh to the wrong thing.

And she's not respecting his journey.

You slide the rock down the ice, but it's going to go where it's going to go.

And you can only sweep your broom in front of it a certain amount to affect it.

But Josh is going to land in his own house eventually.

And your job is to be supportive.

You can sweep the ice in front of him, but you can't stop him.

You can't interfere.

You can't shove him into the place where you want him to be.

That's curling, Christy.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

We're clearing the docket this week.

Here's something from Jason about coffee shop tipping.

I very much need...

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years, and

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

But no.

No, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined!

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lawman.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

A Judge John Hodgman ruling to help live this part of my life.

When my barista spins around the tablet for payment, what am I obligated to tip?

My friend George thinks that you're only obligated to round up on a simple coffee order, the equivalent of dropping the change into the tip jar.

My friend Benjamin adheres to to an automatic 20%, even if you're just buying a croissant.

I'm inclined to tip nothing at a place, well, there's a stunner.

I'm inclined to tip nothing at a place where I get my own food like a muffin on the counter.

I tip 10 to 15%, usually when an espresso is made, a breakfast sandwich is constructed, or the person at the counter is especially nice, and up to 20% if someone's bringing me the food, even if I order at the counter.

But mileage varies here too, and the touch screen forces this decision every time.

Please help.

The modern world is overwhelming me.

Can anything be done about tip creep, or am I the tip creep?

By the way, here's an article in the dastardly Wall Street Journal that shows I'm not the only one struggling with the new rules.

Wait a minute.

Wait a minute.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Let me understand this.

You're telling me the Wall Street Journal has an article complaining about having to tip grubby, disgusting baristas?

What?

The Wall Street Journal?

Nice try, Jason, but I'm not going to subscribe to the Wall Street Journal just to be able to read the whole article about how they don't understand why hedge fund monsters should have to tip millennials when obviously all they're going to do with that extra buck is buy an avocado to spread in their Sarah Lawrence diploma.

I know the Wall Street Journal's point of view.

Is this a personal attack on my wife, Teresa, a graduate of Sarah Lawrence?

I forgot about that.

And avocado toast enthusiast.

It's an attack upon anti-tipping malcontents

and people who believe that millennials don't deserve the money that they earn because they're often earning their money out of necessity these days in tipped professions.

Along with, by the way, you know, when we talk about millennials, we talk about

the popular imagination is, you know, college-educated young people.

But there are lots and lots and lots of working people without college degrees and without a lot of institutional support in their lives or from their government who are working in tipped professions, whether that is

working in a coffee shop or working in a restaurant or working as a housekeeper in a hotel or whatever it is.

Tip, tip, tip.

This is obviously one of the most consistent and consistently strongly felt legal or infranet legal precedents on this podcast.

Jesse, I admired you on social media a couple of days ago, taking it, taking it to those creeps who are once again saying, I don't think that I should tip.

I think hotels and restaurants should pay their employees a living wage.

And what did you say to those people, Jesse?

I said that what you think the system should be is irrelevant.

The system is what it is.

Yeah.

If you think that people should be paid a better wage, take it up with the business owners or your legislator.

Right.

But meanwhile, in your one-to-one encounter.

You have the opportunity to directly affect how much they get paid.

Yeah, and you have the opportunity to be generous, and you should embrace it.

That's a gift to you.

Being generous, if you can afford to do it, is one of the greatest pleasures in life.

Now,

what Jason is talking about here, of course, is now that many a coffee shop and other sort of counter-service establishment has a tablet cash register

and

they turn it around so that you can sign for your credit card purchase.

There's often now a prompt, just as there is on a rideshare service as well, where you can like, do you want to tip 10%, 15%, or 20%?

And this is a new development, right?

Because,

you know,

the previous conversation we would have with anti-tipping malcontents is that they're mad that there's even a jar on the counter encouraging you to drop some extra change or a dollar in there.

Because why should I have to tip you?

All you did was you know,

hand me a muffin or whatever.

This is a new thing, right?

Because 10, 15, 20% of your bill, especially if it's a fancy coffee shop, is going to be more than probably the dollar or $2

that you might have thrown into the tip jar before.

But it doesn't mean that the people behind the counter have not earned that consideration.

The truth is that people who work in a fancy coffee shop,

particularly a barista, that's a time-intensive skilled job.

And

if you want them to do a nice job, and paint a nice little phone picture on top, it's a gift to you to be able to give them a little extra.

Now, I believe, and I could be wrong here, but like

minimum when you are in an over-the-counter situation.

If you're at a bar, I've spoken to a lot of bartenders, and they feel like a dollar or two per drink is a good tip.

And that's a starting point, right?

That's a minimum.

You can tip a lot more and you feel good when you do it because everyone feels happy.

But that's the minimum.

When you see a tip jar and you're getting a coffee or whatever, you know, maybe you put a dollar in there.

If you're faced with a 10 or 15, 20%, I'll tell you, my go-to is usually just to tip the middle, whatever it is, whatever the middle amount is.

Because, and I'm in a position where I can afford to do that.

But if you're not in a position where you can afford to tip 20% on a $5 coffee or whatever, well, that's that.

That's

a dollar.

Guess what?

You are in a position.

Probably.

If you're buying a $5 coffee, I bet you can throw a dollar on there.

But if you feel strongly or if you're not in a position to tip that much,

there's a custom amount and put in what you think is appropriate.

That's fine.

But don't do nothing.

Don't do nothing.

Do you disagree with my math?

I'm older.

Maybe I'm out of touch.

What do you think about my advice there, Jesse?

Do you think I I need to adjust upwards, downwards, or am I about right?

No, I think you're about right.

I think that those apps are designed to maximize tips, and they probably use A-B testing to figure out how to do that.

And that's great and fine.

They probably suggest totals that are higher than people otherwise might naturally do.

I don't think there's anything wrong with leaving a big tip.

It's great if you can afford to do it.

It's a good idea.

I think the key issue here is that there's always a button that you can push to choose a custom tip.

And if you are feeling guilty about the amount that you've tipped, it's probably for a reason.

And also, beyond that,

the bigger issue is the one that you get at, which is if you disagree with how the system works, that is not a reason to opt out of it.

That's not how it goes.

The system exists.

You can try to change it, but the way to change it is not by stepping on the necks of people who are working for tips.

Yeah, I mean, the reason I consider tipping to be an opportunity and a kind of gift is that there are not a lot of chances that you have necessarily in this economy to directly help another person one-to-one and to thank them personally with your money.

You know what I mean?

Because a lot of the money that you're paying for that coffee or for whatever it is is going to some big corporation.

But the tip is something that you're giving to another human being who you see in front of you.

Or in the case of your housekeeper, you don't see because they're coming in after you to clean your dirty sheets.

And it is a gesture of thanks that I enjoy the opportunity to pass along.

And, you know, look, if you can't afford it, you can't afford it.

That's the way it goes.

Everyone understands.

And I don't think anyone would begrudge you, you know, the smallest gesture that you can make so long as you make it.

I've spoken to a lot of service personnel who, you know, when you're in a situation where you just don't have the extra money to tip, or you can't afford it, or there's no opportunity for it, and you just say, I'm sorry, I'm going to have to get you next time.

They're totally cool with it.

But, you know, honestly, if you think you can't afford to tip and we're talking about a barista at a coffee shop, hey, maybe you just can't afford to buy coffee at a coffee shop.

You can just make it yourself for like 20 cents.

Like,

that's the reality.

Like, it's a luxury good buying coffee at a coffee shop.

You're paying for convenience and fanciness and ambiance and prestige.

And if you can afford to spend three or four or five dollars for that, even at a national chain, you can afford to get up off 50 cents or a dollar for the person who made it.

So let's get back to Jason here before we move on.

What was his specific thing?

Can anything be done about tip creep or am I the tip creep?

Well, I think Jason is doing an okay job, right?

He says that he's inclined to tip nothing where he he gets his own food like a muffin on the counter.

10 to 15% when an espresso is made or a breakfast sandwich is constructed.

And 20%, up to 20% of someone is bringing you food.

That is, you order at a counter and then they call out your name and they bring it to your table.

I would say that the only problem, all of those are within the realm of acceptability, Jason, except tipping nothing.

At a place where you get your own food like a muffin.

I mean, I don't know.

Are you talking about like at a food court at a rest stop where you're grabbing a pre-wracked muffin and bringing it to a cashier?

I mean, as a non-coffee drinker, I've waited in line at a chain coffee restaurant occasionally just to grab a muffin that's wrapped up that's sitting next to the cash register because I need to eat something.

I agree with you, John, that all of these are very reasonable percentages and it sounds like he's doing about the right amount.

There's no situation in a tipping service environment in which I would leave no tip simply for sort of the reason that

my wife who went to Sarah Lawrence used to phone bank for their annual fund and you know they they you would call somebody in her case David Dukovny Sarah Lawrence graduate

and

you would you know ask them hey listen it's not what you give it's that you give we try and get as close to 100 percent of our people giving something i think this is kind of that situation like a lot of people giving nothing adds up fast, as does a lot of people giving even a quarter.

Like if you're working for $15 an hour and you're serving that many people, if all of them are giving you at least 20 or 25 cents, that actually is a significant amount of money,

even once it's pooled among the staff.

So

I think it's probably worth always giving a little something, but I also don't think that anyone would be offended or angry at you if you didn't in that particular situation.

Yeah, it's a gesture of decency.

And if you have a choice to be decent or not,

choose to be decent.

That's more fun for everyone.

Michael wrote in about the recent docket clearing episode Slunch Buggy, No Punchbacks.

We talked about the popular car game known to some folks as Punch Buggy, others as Slugbug.

This is what Michael says.

I'd never heard of Punch Buggy, but then growing up in Scotland, a VW bug would have been far too rare to create the appropriate levels of violence among friends.

My memory of the entire encyclopedia is hazy, but the alternatives that spring to mind are Mini Pinch, Yellow Car Punch, Ambulance Elbow, and Fire Engine Headbutt.

You can imagine how my friend and I looked after a six-hour drive down the motorway playing the extended version of the game.

Initially, I was going to say I do not believe in ambulance elbow.

And

I think Michael from Scotland is just winding us up.

But then I remember he's from Scotland.

Of course, in the absence of VW bugs, they're going to come up with an increasingly exotic array of ways to incur friendly violence among friends.

I saw train spotting.

I know how it's done.

Scotland.

No, that's, I don't know if ambulance elbow is a thing or if you're just having a joke on us, but from now on, I'm doing that in the car with my son.

Gentle elbow.

Gentle elbow.

You understand.

No, we throwing bows like Patrick Ewing.

We got those Oakley elbows swinging.

Yeah, that's right.

You're taking on the early 90s Knicks in here.

Cha, cha.

Here comes Jon Starks' elbow.

Pow.

Jesse Thorne, did I just really learn the term throwing bows?

Yeah, you just learned the term throwing bows.

Is that a thing?

Or are you just ambulance elbowing me now?

No, that's a thing for sure.

That's definitely a thing.

Throwing bows.

I think we've got a title for this episode.

The docket is clear.

That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

You can follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

We're on Instagram at JudgeJohnHodgman.

Make sure to hashtag your JudgeJohn Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJHO, and check out the Max Fund subreddit to discuss this week's episode.

Submit your cases at maximumfund.org/slash JJHO or email Hodgman at maximumfund.org.

We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Judge John Hodgman, we've been throwing sodes since November 1st, 2010.

Boo.

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