Live From Chicago 2018, Part 2

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week's episode was recorded live at Talia Hall in Chicago.

Let's go to the stage to hear our first case of the night: amendment to the Constellation.

Ladies and gentlemen of Chicago, we sent out a call for disputes and you answered.

We have an amazing show planned for you tonight of Chicago Justice.

Let's bring out our first set of litigants.

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Issa and Lily.

One of our litigants did like a full-on, just for the benefit of the at-home listener, a full-on professional wrestling like raise the roof on her way in.

Tonight's case, case, amendment to the constellation.

Issa brings the case against her partner Lily.

Lily is a Taurus, but she says that Taurus characteristics don't resonate with her.

She'd like to be able to say she's an Aquarius instead.

Issa doesn't think she should be able to choose her astrological sign.

Who's right, who's wrong, only one man can decide.

Please rise metaphorically as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers the obscure cultural reference.

I want you to know who we are.

We come from a long, proud line of Toron peasants who knew how to work the land.

and still stand proud.

Our last name isn't Hodgman.

I changed it after I arrived here on Capricorn.

Our family name is Hodgmanna,

and it's a good, honorable Toron name.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, will you swear them in?

Please raise your right hands, Issa and Lily.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever?

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact

that

I didn't write a joke here.

Despite the fact that he's nude under his robes.

There you go.

Fair enough.

I do.

I do.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Issa and Lily, you may be seated metaphorically.

For an immediate summary judgment in one of your...

That was fantastic.

For those listening at home, Issa and Lily, when I said be seated metaphorically, they both did this sort of, this little mime of seating themselves.

It was fantastic.

Kind of like an interpretive dance version of

Little Miss Muffet.

It was kind of a seated curtsy.

Thank you very much for that.

I really appreciate it.

And Issa has something, you have a gift for this court?

Yes, for your birthday present.

Shall we call it bribery?

I would call it a birthday present.

For your birthday, I brought you an apple pie.

I work at a local pie shop, and I made and purchased this.

Thank you very

much.

The court does not accept bribes.

Shut your pie hole!

Actually, we do accept bribes.

Yeah, I'll take that pie.

Pie bribes.

Even though it is a point of record that this court does not have a sweet tooth, but an alcohol molar,

I appreciate your gift and I will make a hole in this pie.

Judge Hodgman, I don't know if you knew this, but that is a Chicago-style apple pie, which is like a traditional apple pie, but with sport peppers.

Something called sport peppers.

It's a deep dish pie.

It's actually, the crust is five feet deep.

Everyone loves eating on podcasts.

That's what our focus groups tell us.

Everyone loves chewing.

That's a delicious pie, a delicious crust.

You made it yourself?

Oh, great.

I find in your

Jesse, who you need something to wash that down?

Maybe the city spirit of Chicago.

Why?

Speaking as a city resident.

That was good pie.

That was a delicious pie that I washed down with a swig of Jepson's Malort, Chicago's own

two-fisted botanical bitter swill.

Issa, that is a wonderful pie.

You can really taste the Jardinier.

Ladies and gentlemen listening at home, this is the late night show in Chicago.

Second show of the night here at Tall Ya Hall.

And for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favorites, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced?

as I entered the courtroom.

Let's see.

Issa, why don't you guess first?

I really have no idea, but just because you said Caprica, I'm going to guess Battlesaur Galactica.

I have no idea.

No, that's wrong.

Let's put that in the guess book.

I'm doing that.

I'm going to spell it out here in pie crumbs.

All right.

Lily, do you have a guess?

So that sounded like a

fantasy or sci-fi novel.

Would you like to use a lifeline?

So I know like two of those.

So I'm going to say The Moon is a Harsh Mistress by Robert Heinlein.

The Moon?

I maybe dropped my notes.

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress by Robert Heinlein.

I'll write that in the notes.

And Issa, what did you say?

You said, because I said Caprica, it's probably Battlestar Galactica.

Is that correct?

Because I said Caprica,

it probably has Battlestar Galactica.

Oh, there's one called Caprica.

Oh, too late, Issa.

Yes, that was a good guess.

Lily, your guess was okay.

But both, and indeed all guesses, are wrong, because I was quoting from the pilot of Caprica, the prequel to Battlestar Galactica.

Created by Ronald D.

Moore, but later show-run and executive produced by friend of the podcast, Jane Espenson.

The great Jane Espenson.

The great Jane Espenson.

It's

a great show that you should revisit.

It's better than Reddit Player One.

And

that's right.

That's right.

I am throwing some shade.

Man, and Spielberg totally listens to this show.

I know.

Sorry, Steve.

So, in any case, we go on to this case.

Of course, the reason that I made the quote from Caprica is that the 12 colonies in the Battlestar Galactica verse are named for the 12 signs of

zodiac.

Issa and Lily, this is a zodiacal dispute.

Lily, you do not feel you are a Taurus, though according to your birthday, you would be termed one, and you would prefer to be an Aquarius.

And Issa, even though the zodiac is all made up anyway, you feel this is wrong.

Correct, I do.

All right.

Now, I will stipulate to this.

I do not know how firmly you believe in the influence of astrology over actual day-to-day life and that sort of thing.

I do not believe it to be science, but I certainly don't think that it is harmful to believe in it.

So I'm going to go on and take this as a matter of faith,

that this is meaningful to you, for each of you, and that this actually is an issue of some stake for you, Lily.

Why are you not a Taurus?

And why are you an Aquarius?

And I say that as a Gemini, which means I don't know what any of these other signs mean.

Because Gemini is the sign of self-involvement.

So what's a Taurus all about, and why are you not that, and why are you more Aquarius?

So part of this, part background of this is that Issa believes in some sort of serious astrology, like done by looking at an entire chart of a person and sort of making things personalized to that person and like within the context of a reading.

I

don't really believe in astrology and I only interact with it via Facebook memes and

Tumblr memes, where it's very prevalent.

And there are a set of stereotypes associated with the 12 signs in that meme culture, which I think Issa would also agree is meaningless.

So the Taurus as a someone in the audience took issue with your calling meme culture meaningless.

But I agree with you and not that person.

It's not meaningless to Taurus bae

Okay.

So if you look up sort of the classic stereotypes of Taurus, it's an earth sign and their basic thing is that they're boring and stubborn and they like everything to be the same all the time

because they're so boring and stubborn.

I think I am not.

Issa has an objection.

Are you going to voice your objection?

She's using a lot of body language to say she would like to speak right now.

So I argue with the boring, but in terms of liking things the same, you carry Tabasco sauce in your purse and you own 32 scarves and wear a scarf every day.

So, Taurus, Louis.

Come on.

I'd also like it on record that I wear different scarves each day.

That's why I have 30.

One for every day of most months.

Yeah.

Right.

But you consider yourself more an Aquarian.

What would be the personality traits of the Aquarian as defined by Tumblr and Facebook memes, especially?

So

Aquarian is more like

classic thing is you really want to be different.

You're weird and you're very intellectual and you get up in your head a lot and

you are like probably an alien robot pretending to be human.

Lily, I knew it the moment I saw you.

I knew you were a Cylon!

No.

So, you know, like a typical thing might say, like, you know, what weird thing do you believe in?

And, like, you know, Taurus would be like, you don't believe in anything weird because you don't like weird things.

And then Aquarius would be like, you know, you believe that the Earth is flat and inside a smaller earth.

Do you have a YouTube channel that I should be watching?

And so I feel about your theory, because color me intrigued.

Yeah.

I did not expect this to take a turn for the Kyrie Irving.

So, so, like, a free thinker.

Yeah, and also, like, I was sort of just rereading over the summary, and it was also like that you have a lot of empathy and care deeply for people.

And I was just like, as I was reading that, sort of, especially compared to the Taurus, like, I know that, you know, you show a vague description and everyone thinks it's about them, but like Aquarius just feels so accurate to me.

Like, I want to be weird.

I'm very intellectual.

I'm in my head all the time.

It just feels perfect.

You felt a deep, instinctive heart attraction to Aquarius, and that offends Issa's devotion to the hard science of astrology.

That says you're born a Taurus and you are a Taurus forever.

Is that correct, Issa?

Do I misspeak your position?

Please defend yourself.

You do not.

So a little background about astrology.

Oh, I don't.

Okay.

Okay, hold on.

Astrology is not exactly a hard science.

I don't think anybody can disagree with that.

So I am a practicing witch, and I was raised pagan.

Wow, you were raised pagan.

I was raised pagan.

So your parents also pagan?

My father is.

Right.

And my mom was never actively pagan.

My mom was the pope.

But was never actively pagan, but she did really believe in astrology.

And she, when I was growing up, did astrological charts professionally.

Like she was paid money for that.

And is your mom still alive and in your life?

She is still alive.

I don't speak to her very often, but she is still alive.

So you would not suggest that she do Lily's charts, for example.

She would not be a neutral authority that you would turn to if I were to order in your favor and have Lily do her whole chart?

No, I think she could be.

Okay, so that's a resource?

That is a resource.

That is on the table.

Is there anyone in the audience who does astrological charts?

I mean, sincerely, works on that stuff?

Hi.

I, back there.

Okay, so we have another resource.

What is your name?

I couldn't make it out, I'm sorry.

Sata.

All right, good.

That's a real solid astrological chart doing name.

Thank you.

We can bring the house lights back down.

Thank you, Sata.

Will you stand by in case you're not going to be able to do that?

If we had heard like questions, Frank.

Go for a different version.

It's me, Al.

Big Al.

Hey, it's me, big Al.

Undo your charts.

You haven't heard my ads on AM radio in Chicago?

Go socks!

Okay.

So,

you were saying you were raised, so may I just follow up for a moment?

Sure.

So, when you say that you are a practicing witch and you were raised pagan, I've known people in my life who describe themselves as members of the Wiccan religion.

Is that something that you identify with, or is that a separate path?

Wicca is a form of neo-paganism.

It is not the form that I take.

I would describe my religion as Hellenic eclecticism.

Is that just Wonder Woman?

Thank you for clearing that up.

What did you just say?

I said, is that Wonder Woman?

And so, what does your practice of faith look like in your daily life?

What is involved?

Daily life, I mean, I don't think it terribly affects my daily life.

I will, for me, prayer takes the form of ritual.

Generally, I have two altars set up in my house to two different gods that I worship.

Are you able to share what gods those?

Yes.

So Asclepius, who is the Greek god of healing and medicine.

Okay.

He and Hecate actually share an altar.

Hecate is a Greek goddess of magic and the crossroads.

And then in my kitchen, I have an altar to Hestia, who is the goddess of the hearth and the home and of cooking and baking.

I like those gods.

That's a good kitchen god.

I have an altar in my kitchen to Griswold, the patron saint of cast iron pans.

Cool.

And so

this is something that you take seriously.

Do you believe that there is forces beyond?

I do.

Okay.

People who are religious tend to.

So I just,

this is not an esoteric practice just for fun.

It is actually an expression of belief.

Correct.

So astrologically, you believe that there is something to astrology?

Astrology is something I've gone back and forth on throughout the course of my life because I was raised.

Kind of like a Gemini.

I don't even know if that's true.

No.

Right.

Because I was...

Because I was...

I took a guess.

Took a guess.

But I mean, to be fair, John, it's classic Hellenic eclecticism.

Which, by the way, I recently hired an interior designer.

And I said I want to do all Hellenic eclectic.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude to your man.

Let the record show that Issa is laughing.

Yeah.

Quietly, patiently.

Because I was really raised surrounded by astrology, so it's been part of my life for a long time.

And the thing is that, so in astrology, there are three signs that are important.

You can kind kind of sum up a person with their sun, moon, and ascendant signs.

Yes.

And my three signs, when I tell them to somebody who both knows astrology very well and knows me well, they start laughing because they describe me so well.

And because of that, it's like really hard for me to completely write it off.

You feel that it is not substanceless, at the very least.

Correct.

It is not substanceless.

Now, I don't think that our personalities are created by the placement in the stars.

I think that we can look at this and see a reflection of our personalities, and even if it is completely nonsense, it's still a good tool of introspection.

And so why do you feel it's important

that Lily adhere to being a Tauron in Capricorn terms

or a Taurus as opposed to being an Aquarius?

Does Taurus describe her better than Aquarius?

Or is it merely that This is what it is?

You were born during this period of the year and you don't get to choose

Well, no one person, so the signs kind of represent stereotypes or archetypes, and no one person just typifies that sign.

Lily definitely has Taurian traits and Aquarian traits, but she does have Taurian traits.

There is Taurus in her.

And I don't know, looking at her chart, I would be completely unsurprised if she had Aquarius rising or Aquarius moon.

Right.

So, but there must be something that

offends you about her decision to be an aquarium through memes and Facebook and so forth, or else we wouldn't be here having this dispute.

Right.

I guess

what is your sign?

So, I am a cancer sun, Pisces, moon, Virgo, rising.

Right.

So, that's that's that's first of all very, very

specific.

I'm laughing because it describes you perfectly.

Let the record show that Issa is also laughing silently, patiently.

If I ever have to sum that up for people as I do right now, I like to say that that describes someone who on the outside seems very organized and on the inside is a waterfall of pure feelings.

And so your sign is not the kind of person who would gin up a dispute just to be on a podcast.

You have to care about this.

And I do care about this.

Please tell me, why does it matter to you how Lily defines herself on Tumblr and Facebook and so on?

Because it does feel personal to me and it does intersect with my religion.

And that's definitely part of it.

But the other is that as someone who deeply cares about Lily, I feel like she's kind of losing a really interesting tool of introspection by just dismissing this.

And if she took a holistic look at her chart, it could be really interesting for her.

But also another thing is that

I see really positive Taurian traits in Lily that I don't think she necessarily sees in herself, and her rejecting them makes me kind of sad.

Like, I feel like she is a really stable, dependable, hardworking person, which are really Taurian things.

And her just rotely rejecting that makes me feel like she's rejecting that part of herself.

Lily, Issa thinks you're rejecting a natural part of yourself.

How does that make you feel?

Okay, so I do those are definitely Taurian traits, and those also are not traits that I necessarily see in myself, so she is in fact right about that.

And Issa, you're asking, if I were to rule in your favor, you're not asking that Lily necessarily identify as Taurus, but to just have her chart done

in whatever

full and complete and responsible, as you say, holistic way, just to gain the benefit that you think she might get from such a reading, right?

That is correct.

If she looks at her chart, has it interpreted, we have a conversation about it, and she, after that, is really insistent that, yeah, I'm going to say I'm an Aquarius, then what's involved in doing one of these charts?

I don't know.

I don't know anything about this.

Well, the first step is that we have to find her birth certificate because to

I happen to have it right here.

Surprise, Lily.

Which is somewhere in our apartment.

We broke into your house and went through your files.

Because leading up to this podcast, I texted Lily's mother and I was like, hey, do you know what time she was born?

And she said, it was a cesarean section.

I have no idea.

Does that affect

the zodiac sign?

No.

I mean, because time of birth is important, right?

And if you are a Caesarean,

the time of birth is chosen rather than defined by fate.

Currently, as charts are interpreted, as far as my mom has told me, it doesn't make a difference.

But time of birth is needed to do a chart.

Is that correct?

Time of birth is needed for the rising sign, which is one of the three most important pieces,

and for a few other pieces that are less important that I don't understand as much.

Do you resist the idea of doing this full chart reading, et cetera?

My feeling is that it's an 11 out of 12 chance that

it's not Aquarius, and then I'm sort of where I am still.

Like, I haven't gained anything.

And then

I risk my, I lose my ability to just, you know, sort of like use this card like, well, I might be Aquarius rising.

You don't know if anyone calls me on having a birthday and a sign that don't match.

But also, I would argue it's, you know, an Aquarian

my Aquarian wants to be different and, you know, wants to engage in astrology in the weird way by choosing your sign rather than the boring way of acknowledging that your rising sign is important.

Oh, there is a lot of body language coming from Issa right now.

Issa, go.

Okay, I have a refute to that, which is that a thing about Taurus.

Sustained.

A thing about Tauruses is they like doing things

when they

have their way, they like doing things that way, and choosing their own way to understand astrology and then the stubbornly sticking to it is the most Taurian thing I've ever heard

the fact that we are here proves my point she's so Aquarian that she's Tauran

but it does seem to me Lily that that if you feel that if the chart were done in the way that Issa would have it done and it showed that indeed you were fully rising Taurin, then now all of a sudden you couldn't in good conscience call yourself Aquarian.

Like, there would be a rule all of a sudden.

Right now, you're existing in this limbo state where no one's actually pegged you down as Taurin exactly, so you're free to call yourself Aquarian.

Is that right?

Yeah, and it still sort of like wouldn't,

like,

I don't know, I can't speak to how it would be as

an introspection tool since I'm fighting it.

But

it would still leave me with the thing that sort of the the jokes about Tauruses are about them being sort of like

stubborn and set and routine and the like jokes about Tauruses do not describe behaviors that I identify with where Aquarian jokes do.

Wouldn't it be more Aquarian just say like pff?

Yeah, you can take my chart.

If I don't like it, forget it.

The earth is flat within another earth.

I mean the jokes about cancers are about them being clingy balls of unstable feelings that stalk their exes, which I kind of resent, but like.

You've stalked a few exes.

It's still my sign.

You're like, I read that on my exes Facebook page.

So

here's a very postmodern take, but

you go, Aquarius.

I think I at some times gain some of the same sort of introspectional benefits from Aquarian memes that Isa wants me to get from a real astrology

because, you know, a lot of the sort of like negative Aquarius stereotypes are also things that I see myself doing, like sort of intellectualizing emotions or sort of like not letting yourself feel something in the moment.

And so that becomes sort of a social way to notice that.

I understand, I can totally relate Judge Hodgman to the feeling of getting that introspection from memes.

I feel like I get the same benefit from that animated gif of LeBron James picking up his purse and leaving the press conference.

I don't know what the memes are that you're talking about.

Can you illuminate me on what an Aquarian meme might be?

Well, the memes are a list of all the signs and then like a sentence about them while I'm making fun of each one.

Yeah, oh, okay.

Or they might like connect them to a character in a television show, or like sometimes there might be one that's like three problems that each sign has,

and then there's like one for you.

And this is just stuff you post on Facebook and Tumblr and that sort of thing.

Yeah, and then basically the intention is that all of your friends would be like, oh my god, that's so me.

Right.

But in this case, Issa's saying, oh my god, that is so not you.

And Raven's saying, oh my god, that's so Raven.

This is a difficult one.

So if I were to rule in your favor, Issa, you would have me order Lily to have her chart read professionally or however you want to term it

holistically, right?

And deal with the consequences of that, however she were to do it, right?

Correct.

And if she were to get that chart and then still say, I still feel more Aquarius than anything else, would you be satisfied?

I would be satisfied.

That would be her prerogative.

I see.

And Lily, if I were to rule in your favor, what would you have me rule?

That

I get to call myself an Aquarius, and that

if I ever decide that I am interested in exploring myself through astrology,

which is not an impossible thing, because I have become interested in a lot of the things that Issa does, then at that point only would I then,

of my own prerogative, find my whole chart.

So, you would continue to identify as Aquarius so far as memes are concerned.

But if and when you're ready to take it more seriously, then you might do it, but it's your choice.

Yes.

Is that what you're saying?

That would be my idea.

Do you have a response?

I have one question.

How are you going to explain to people when you're saying you're an Aquarius and you're celebrating your birthday in April?

Most people don't know or care.

And the ones who do make that connection are like, oh, but if that's your birthday, you're not an Aquarius, then it becomes a conversation piece.

That's my feeling.

It's mostly going to be an issue at Wiccan gatherings

or on the back of Earth, Wind, and Fire albums.

But I mean, I asked, and I will freely admit that, you know, when explaining this, because I have a lot of

queer and trans friends and making jokes about queer and trans things, I often explain this as that I was coercively assigned Taurus at birth.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going to go over here into my chambers and I'll be back in a moment with my decision.

Lily, can I ask what your birthday is?

April 24th.

Yes!

We're birthday parties!

Woo!

Birthday parties!

Oh, Jesse?

Let the record show that.

Belated happy birthday.

I guess so my first question is, Issa, what's it like to have a dumb birthday?

I mean, just like compared to Lily.

I love my birthday.

It's on Friday the 13th sometimes.

It's pretty good.

Including the actual like birthday.

Yeah.

I was born on Friday the 13th as well.

Lily, as a person who shares a birthday with, if I remember correctly, Barbara Streisand

and my friend Maria Calpito from college,

how do you feel about your chances in the case?

Both of us are presenting reasonable arguments that could be found reasonably.

And I am not sure which one will be the winner.

Oh my God.

Did you see Issa's face just now?

She tried to turn away from you.

Issa, how are you feeling?

Astrology is something personal to me that I would really like to share with my partner.

So

I it would be great great if it's in my favor i don't really think the odds are great because i feel like this might fall into the you like what you like rule it is very personal but i'm i'm hoping

i can't believe we're birthday buddies

it's like one in 30 odds I was like, she was like, well, she's a tourist.

I'm like, I'm a tourist.

And she's like, born in April, there's like only so many tourist days in April.

I'm like, well, one in eight chance or whatever.

Yeah.

Yeah, we rule.

I also do want to share um, so that, you know, Issa shared that her religion is described as Hellenic eclecticism.

And I just want to put out there that mine I call liberation mysticism.

So.

I want to clarify, because that's not clear, that that is a form of Christianity, though.

Yeah, so it's normal.

Wow.

Well,

my religion is Hodgmanic judgment, so let's see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all of this.

So it's normal.

Lily, that was a tack I did not expect you to take.

Yeah, my only regret was that I didn't have my air horn Andy.

Pondery play.

But I mean,

I was in my chambers, which is to say, sitting behind the podium here, the callia hall in Chicago,

contemplating the mystery of creation.

I don't think that it sunk in appropriately that Lily and Jesse Thornton share a birthday.

How did that happen?

That's magical.

And Barbara Streisand.

That's right.

If I'm remembering correctly.

And even though I predicated this whole discussion with my conviction that astrology is not science,

I feel challenged to learn more about

your faith pathways, Issa, and to check out the god or goddess of baking and cooking.

Maybe set up a...

What do you do in that altar there?

What's your ritual?

Just season cast iron pans?

That's what Hodgman's hoping you'll answer.

I mean, I'm trying to see if I can get tax-free status for seasoning cast iron pans.

He wants to deduct the oven cleaner.

On that altar, I keep a mortar and pestle and some candles and incense.

I pray in front of that altar.

I have garlic hung over it, which is really cool.

Sure, and plus, no vampires.

And we also have Sata, if I'm pronouncing your name correctly.

And I'm Frank.

We have someone.

Do you want to weigh in?

Is Lily an Aquarian or a Tauran from your expert point of view?

Well, we might consider this.

I think we might share a trait.

And if any of our Twitter brethren sometimes take a

rebirth chart in addition to a nate natural chart.

No, I mean, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I need to hear this because she does isn't on mic.

Or he or I they.

I don't know.

It's not a joke, I just don't know uh gender, so I can't.

You're welcome.

Uh so you were saying he, him.

So if that is an applicable trait you play,

you might consider whether or not you have a second book time.

So, what Santa said for the at-home listener is that for a lot of queer people, they take a second chart that involves a rebirth.

And that that might reflect different signs.

How do you respond to that, Lily?

Issa had a lot of facial expressions.

Well, that would

so

slightly delicate.

You came out in late August, I think.

You are not a Leo,

But it might be worth it.

And just for the clarity of the listener at home who might not be here,

you used she and her pronouns.

Would you say you are a trans person?

I want to ask in the most respectful way how you consider yourself.

I would describe myself.

Trans woman is sort of like just what I say, sort of most of the time, just to sort of get across.

If I'm like with someone who sort of like maybe like knows terms better, I might say like trans femme gender fluid.

But trans woman is fine.

Well, I appreciate your sharing that just so that people understand.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

It's a whole topic that I am glad to be learning more and more of every day and understanding better every day.

But I only meant to bring it up, not I hope that it didn't make you uncomfortable, but to clue in people who are listening in the audience that when Issa says you came out in late August, this is what we're talking about to some degree.

Is that correct?

Do I understand correctly?

All right, correct.

Another thing that just came to mind.

But what she was saying was basically you came out in late August, so this whole rebirth thing is you're still a tourist.

Hold on,

I have something.

But also, we wouldn't have like any certificate that has a time of when you came out, but we do have your name change certification, and that was in March,

which would be Pisces, which is definitely more fitting.

Definitely a water sign.

Yes,

that was.

I think it's a picture of some fish.

Yeah.

I have a freakish weird memory.

I think it was like March 13th of 2015,

which I believe is Pisces.

And we have your name change documents, so we do have a time on that.

So if you wanted to claim a rebirth, we could use that if you wanted to.

But then she would only be a Pisces.

We still don't know.

Aquarius is still off the table.

Yeah, none of this happened in January.

Is there anything

done during Aquarius?

With great respect?

You are a harsh witch.

You follow the rules.

Born on Friday the 13th.

Come on, Issa.

You're fantastic.

Issa, what's the calendar period for Aquarius?

The calendar period for Aquarius is January 21st to February 21st.

How do you respond to the idea of a rebirth chart?

It's

super interesting.

That would require a lot of thought about sort of

feelings of sort of like to what extent I feel I am sort of like continuous versus changed and like how much I sort of like the image the image of rebirth.

So that would be sort of a very personal thing that I would have to think about.

That you might kind of get in your head about, in other words.

Well, with all due respect, this straight cis white male's got to wrap things up

and give my opinion that everyone is waiting for.

Finally, our voices will be heard.

I feel that the only responsible verdict that I can offer is that Lily, you do whatever you want.

Issa, I have great respect for your point of view and your religion,

but I will say, first of all, from bogus legal terms, you do not have standing to bring a case against Lily because you have not been harmed or damaged in this in any way, other than whatever personal offense you take because she thinks that her religion is normal,

which is offensive, but that's

not litigable.

And second of all, I think that obviously you both have a tremendous amount of affection for one another and respect for one another,

but Lily is going through a journey.

And I don't even think she's ruling out the idea that she might have a holistic chart down the road.

But at this time,

she's exploring all different avenues of understanding about herself.

And I see no reason to get a piece of paper to say that she's one thing or another.

And indeed, I wouldn't want to rob her.

I think, Sata, your suggestion was incredibly informative, I think, to this discussion, and I thank you.

And I considered just assigning you a new birthday, but that would be the patriarchy, right?

So

this court suggests respectfully that you go ahead and deal with your ZAB, zodiac-assigned at birth,

in whatever way

you feel you need to in order to get to a place where you are at you're your most happy.

And the same for you, Issa, I find in favor of Lily.

This is the sound of a gabble.

Lily and Issa, ladies and gentlemen.

Thank you very much for being here, you guys.

Appreciate it.

Our thanks to Colin Kennelly for naming this case.

And thanks to Issa and Lily for being on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Let's take a quick break from Chicago to hear about this week's sponsors.

When we come back, music from the band OM.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Let me ask you a question.

Did you know that most of the dishes served at Tom Clicchio's craft restaurant are made in, made in pots and pans?

It's true.

The Brace Short Ribs, Made In, Made In.

The Rohan Duck Riders of Rohan, Made In, Made In.

That heritage pork chop that you love so much, you got it.

It was made in, made in.

But Made In isn't just for professional chefs.

It's for home cooks, too.

And even some of your favorite celebratory dishes can be amplified with made-in cookware.

It's the stuff that professional chefs use, but because it is sold directly to you, it's a lot more affordable than some of the other high-end brands.

We're both big fans of the carbon steel.

I have a little

carbon steel skillet.

that my mother-in-law loves to use because cast iron is too heavy for her, but she wants that non-stick.

And I know that she can, you know, she can heat that thing up hot if she wants to use it hot.

She can use it to braise if she wants to use it to braise.

It's an immensely useful piece of kitchen toolery.

And it will last a long time.

And whether it's

griddles or pots and pans or knives or glassware or tableware.

I mean, you know, Jesse, I'm sad to be leaving Maine soon, but I am very, very happy to be getting back to my beloved made-in entree bowls.

All of it is incredibly solid, beautiful, functional, and as you point out, a lot more affordable because they sell it directly to you.

If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common: they're made-in,

made-in.

For full details, visit madeincookware.com.

That's m-a-d-e-i-n cookware.com.

Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

You're listening to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

This week's episode recorded live at the Onion Comedy and Arts Festival in Chicago.

Our musical guest is the band OM.

Their first full-length album is called Parts.

It's coming out in August on Joyful Noise Recordings.

They were personally recommended to us by Jeff Tweedy of the band Wilco and Tweedy, also one of his bands.

Let's get back to the stage in Chicago to hear some music from OHM.

I'd like to say for the record that I'm a Sagittarius.

I'm a Pisces.

Matt?

Leo, we got a Leo.

So

she ladled the conversation,

skimming from the top

That Damny Liam balloon from Leicester still refuses to talk

They asked her what the plan was

It's really simple now

She's hungry to distraction I was better hanging out

And I want a new icon, I want a new icon, I want a new icon.

I want a new icon, I want a new icon, I want a new icon.

She rounded up her edges

to be soft and diffuse.

That damny Liam balloon from my system hasn't found a better use.

Her second toe went numb.

She kicked the gris with such.

She's telling a list, the terrible thing.

She doesn't need to buy until you die.

Buy until you die.

Buy until you die.

Buy until you die.

Buy until you die.

Buy until you die.

And I want a new icon, I want a new icon, I want a new icon.

I want a new icon, I want a new icon, I want a new

icon, I want a new icon, I want a new

Oh,

oh, oh, oh,

oh,

oh, oh,

I wanna do what I wanna do, I can, I wanna do what I can.

I wanna do what can I wanna do, I can, I wanna do what

I'm gonna do, I can.

I wanna do a lot, wanna do, I can, I wanna do what

I'm gonna do, I can,

I wanna do what's all I'm gonna do, I can, I wanna do what

I'm gonna do, I can, I wanna do what I can,

You send the night a rider that we're on forgiveness now.

You want the movie to the pod where

You don't know it,

you don't know it.

You don't don't know it, you don't know it.

Why is there water in my eye, water in my eye, water in my eye, water in my

eye,

why is there water in my eye, water in my eye, water in my eye, water in my

eye,

why is it snow?

What made a killer made a lover, made a man

But made destruction surveying to the human being.

You don't know it,

you don't know it.

You don't, you don't, you don't.

Why is there water in my eye?

Water in my eye, water in my eye, water in my

eye,

why is there water in my eye, water in my eye, water in my eye, water in my

story?

Ohm, ladies and gentlemen.

Hey, you guys have a record album coming out, correct?

What is the name of the album?

Name of the album is Parts.

Parts?

And how can we find out more about that record album, that long-playing record album album that I want to hear at ownmusic.com oh mmm it's a weird name ohmme music.com and thanks for having us happy birthday man happy birthday very much you guys are so amazing thanks for being here

Seema Macy and Matt

you know we've been doing my brother my brother me for 15 years and

maybe you stopped listening for a while maybe you never listened and you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Judge Hodgman, that is me.

Or I.

Chicago is a city of millions.

That's true.

It's a world metropolis.

And it's known as the unjust city.

That's true.

Because it lacks sufficient justice.

It's known as the metropolis without laws.

That's why we've come here to provide justice.

Here we are, but we have limited time left.

We've been here for a long time and we've only delivered one justice.

Let's see how many more justices we can deliver within a 15-minute time period, shall we?

I think we can do three justices in 15 minutes.

Do you guys think we can do three justices in 15 minutes?

Thus begins a segment we call Swift Justice.

Please welcome to the stage Brad and Kiara.

Brad

and Kiara, how are you?

Wonderful.

Actually, because it's my birthday at midnight.

Really?

Birthday buddies?

Birthday buddies.

What the hell is happening tonight?

That's how you get chosen for this.

Oh, my goodness.

It's like the Griswold god has looked down at both of us.

Do you like cast iron pans?

I don't know, actually.

Really?

Yeah, never used one.

Maybe you are wrong about your birthday.

Yeah.

Well, all right, Brad and Kiara, am I pronouncing your name correctly?

Yes, thank you.

What is the nature of your dispute?

Who brings this case before me?

I suppose I do.

So.

At least you have the courage of your convictions.

Yeah, sorry to be a burden, ma'am.

Okay, well, so we have have this amazing dog.

We love her.

Thank you.

They don't even know her.

And she's soft and...

You don't even know her.

You just wait.

Not like I do.

And she's soft and cuddly and smart and beautiful and everything.

And we love her, but she has one.

Was she a good dog?

She's a good dog.

Who's a good dog?

She's a good dog.

What is her name?

Lucille.

Lucille the dog.

What kind of dog is she?

A mix of stuff?

She's a mix of stuff.

We did get her DNA tested.

Are you interested?

Yeah, sure.

Okay, we only have five inches.

I want to hear Lucille's 23andMe.

Half American Eskimo, a quarter Dalmatian, and a quarter miscellaneous hunting dog.

I do have a photo.

Wait a minute.

It's evidence, though.

This now is pandering to this court because people have been sending Jesse Thorne photos of animals.

Judge Hodgman, I hate to interject here, but I have to get something off my chest.

I've become known,

not without reason,

as the guy who laughs uncontrollably when you show him a picture of a cute animal.

And for that reason, many people have been sending me on the internet pictures of their pets.

Sure.

Now, Judge Hodgman.

Because I told them to do it.

Now, Judge Hodgman, many of these pets are adorable.

And I will admit that I'll be in line at the doctor's office looking at Twitter and I will laugh uncontrollably at a cute picture of someone's pet.

However, I must be frank, sometimes it's just a golden retriever and he's not even doing anything.

And it's fun that golden retriever

here in Chicago are going to have some hard truths come out.

Like all golden retrievers are good dogs.

You're not saying they're bad dogs.

I'm not saying they're bad dogs.

They're good dogs.

I'm not bitten by a golden retriever.

Oh, wow.

He was a good dog.

Golden retriever's bad.

Bad dogs.

I know.

I was saying he was a good dog.

I'm just saying that, like, give me something.

Have it

eating a birthday cake or something.

You know what I mean?

Like, I want to.

I'm not a machine.

Yeah.

I have a soul.

The dog should be doing something funny or be scruffy.

You've taken in too much cute animal imagery on the internet.

Your tolerance is higher than it used to be.

Like, what if it was wearing one of those green visor caps and you were pretending it was an accountant?

Well, I haven't even heard what the dispute is, but I know

you have a photo of Lucille the dog here.

And nope, hold it, please.

Hold.

I am going to decide.

Stay.

Stay.

I don't like to refer to humans that way.

I'm going to allow, I have an idea of how I'm going to rule on this case, but what is the dispute?

The dispute is that despite the fact that Lucille is otherwise perfect, she is not a cuddler.

Right.

And

she likes to stay, you know, on the other side of the couch or an arm's length away so I can pet her chest while she lifts her nose up in the air.

We don't need to relive this.

Just please describe what's happening.

And so,

you know, I like to cuddle dogs.

You want a new dog that cuddles.

I want an additional dog that cuddles.

A separate cuddling dog.

I do want a second cuddling dog.

If you want, you can have my second dog, Sissy, who frankly cuddles too much.

Not something I know anything about.

You do have the support of a smattering of applause of dog hoarders in this audience.

Birthday, buddy, you obviously do not want another dog.

What are your reasons for not wanting this other dog?

Well, I have a special relationship with Lucille because she was astray and she was actually living under a porch at the school I used to teach at.

Oh.

Are you a teacher still?

I I am not.

What do you do now?

I'm the music director for Church for College Students.

Oh, cool.

Excellent.

And so

we have a church for college students?

Does that just mean that you always turn your chair backwards and rap with them?

That's our number one.

You're like, it's part church and part cafe.

Let's hang.

Yeah.

The church for college students, aka the religion of weed eclecticism.

Close enough.

So I left out snacks for Lucille for a couple weeks and eventually trapped her and took her to the Humane Society where we adopted her.

And so having this story, I just feel like our relationship is special and it feels like she's not enough and it would dilute that relationship.

It feels, you feel that she is enough, but you are a non-nine.

Because

Lucille has a very special relationship with my birthday buddy over here.

Yes.

And you resent it and you want your own dog.

Is that why people have second children?

Yes.

Actually, I think this would be doing Lucille a favor because then I wouldn't bother her so much with my need to cuddle.

This would relieve her.

Is there any logistical reason as to why this extra dog would be a burden in your lives?

I do the majority of the dog walking and I'm a little concerned about the responsibility of walking two dogs at once.

And where you do not live in Chicago but in Detroit?

Yes, we're actually on vacation.

Fantastic.

Thank you.

And when you are in Detroit,

just a quick question about feces handling.

Are you required to, right?

That's all major cities now you have to pick up after your dog, correct?

I don't know the law, but I do it out of good neighborly.

If I were to order you to get a second dog, Chiara, would you be willing to handle all of that dog's feces 100%?

I would love to.

I might need to quit my job for the afternoon walk, but I'm okay with that.

I can do that if you were.

You're going to quit your job?

I mean,

for the cuddled dog.

For the cuddling dog, I don't know.

What is your job?

I work for one of the big three auto companies.

Well, yeah, but you have to keep your job because he.

He's a musician.

He's a musician.

He's a musician.

All right, let me see this photo.

You got more than one photo?

I have a second one specifically because she's doing something kind of funny.

All right, let's use that one.

Okay.

This is Lucille.

Yes.

Don't show Jesse.

I did not show Jesse.

And the photo I have is we very briefly fostered a puppy and Lucille's face shows how she feels about other dogs.

Let the record show that I'm sharing this evidence with Jesse Thorne.

Jesse Thorne, this is a photo of Lucille.

She's going like...

She's raising the dog.

She's doing a thing.

Just have the dog do a funny thing.

Because

it's like people go like this for whatever, but dogs don't need to go like that.

She throws her hands up in the air.

It's not hands, but she's acting like it's hands.

And let the record show that I'm showing this piece of evidence.

This is Lucille

in her crate with another dog that they fostered for a period of time.

Is that correct?

Yes.

If a picture could speak a thousand words when a dog can speak no words, this is it.

Jesse Thorne?

These photos will be shared on the Judge John Hodgman page at maximumfund.org and also our Instagram, which is instagram.com John Hodgman.

Here, you can take this and pass it around.

Thank you very much.

Did you tell when you when you got the puppy were you did you just like say to Lucille the puppy will be sharing your most special places.

It's here to replace you.

How old is Lucille?

We think she is about six.

All right, this is the sound of a gabble.

Lucille deserves to be alone for several more years.

I'm sorry, Kiara.

You have brought someone into your house.

It is clear from that photo she does not want a friend.

You need to repair your relationship with Lucille and learn to appreciate her for herself.

I do not deny you the opportunity to to get a cat, however.

Judge Hodgman!

Judge Hodgman, I need your gavel for a second.

Stand by.

Extra gaveling.

Brad, I rule against you wearing a crew neck undershirt with an open-necked dress shirt.

I knew that was going to happen.

Yes, with that penalty, I do say happy birthday.

You must wait some time before you get a new dog.

All right, who do do we have next, Jesse Thorne?

We have Sarah and Tyler.

Sarah and Tyler.

Sarah and Tyler, we know each other already.

You wrote with your dispute to me,

and I determined that I would resolve it in the pages of the New York Times Magazine, where I have a Judge John Hodgman column net.

Do me a favor, you guys.

Would you all write to your parents and tell them that Judge John Hodgman is also a podcast?

No one who reads the New York Times magazine knows that this is a podcast.

So please go tell your moms and dads there's also a podcast.

And they're like, we don't know how to make a podcast work.

And it doesn't matter.

Just go to maximumfund.org slash donate and give him money.

Now, I said that I would rule in the magazine, and I did so, and I ordered you to not read my ruling so that we could discuss it here fresh.

So now I have to ask you: did you respect my order to not ever read the failing New York Times?

No, I read it several times and shared it with all of my friends.

Yo,

you disobeyed my order.

I also read it.

Sarah, if you will, quickly recap what the nature of this dispute is.

My boyfriend Tyler's farts are so bad that...

Stand by.

Please repeat.

I apologize for the audience.

Audience, hold on.

Sarah, let her rip.

My boyfriend Tyler's farts are so bad it impedes my ability to both eat and sleep in my own home.

And you claim that they are so bad because why?

And by bad, you do not mean loud, you mean they smell bad.

Correct.

They smell so bad like raw sewage.

And the reason for this, your hypothesis, was?

Protein intake in the form of protein shakes.

I see.

And I did some research on this subject.

And as I wrote in the New York Times magazine, I used to write for a men's lifestyle magazine, Men's Journal, the magazine of men's journaling.

So it's been a while since I've had the pleasure to research male food and farts.

From a nutritional point of view, I can verify that the phenomenon you described, Sarah, is real.

Chicago dudes in the audience going, yep.

And there are actual techniques for ameliorating Tyler's protein stink, including seeking out lower weight protein powers, aka cutting the cheese.

I'm a dad.

He may enjoy researching these tricks, as they will offer him even more narcissistic science experiments to perform on his own body.

Short of this, however, the court can offer you no relief.

It is Tyler's own ketosis-toned body, and smelling it may be the price you pay for sleeping next to it.

There are plenty of normal carb-farting fellows you could choose instead of Tyler.

And yet, you are still together, I see?

Yes.

Right, so I ruled in Tyler's favor, fart away.

But have you considered, Tyler, you may now speak.

Or fart.

So I did stop.

Someone told me that they thought that the problem was like consuming really low quality, super cheap protein powder that was way.

So, but I know you said, you said less dairy, right?

But I also just decided to drink these protein shakes that are like, just it's just milk.

It's just like super protein-y milk.

And has that affected the problem in any way, Sarah?

I mean, I don't care what you think.

She's the one who has to live with it.

Is it better or worse?

It's the same.

The same.

Is it possible that it has nothing to do with what he's putting into his body, that he just farts bad all the time?

Was there a time when you knew him when his farts were more tolerable?

Was this an issue of as you got to know each other better and over time, he just started farting in front of you and you're like, oh, that's no good.

I can't remember the first fart that offended me so much.

Well, how do you even know you're in love then?

I mean, I'm sticking through all of these science experiments he's performing to

alleviate the fart problem and maintain this desire to eat so much protein.

Tyler, is it possible that you have a problem with butt health?

It could be possible.

I've never asked a doctor, but maybe I should.

Or a judge.

Do you?

We don't have to.

They are kind of the same thing.

Six or one-half dozen or the other.

I was asked to bring a sample, but unfortunately I could not produce.

Can you fart right now for this court?

I don't think I can.

I'm prepared to hold you in contempt of court if you like.

Produce the evidence.

I don't think I can do it.

I don't think so.

No.

Let the record show,

for those listening at home, that Tyler

is very handsome and very fit.

Yeah, my question for Tyler mainly is that I sometimes drink protein shakes.

How come I ain't cute like you?

Yeah.

Like I'm I'm worried I'm a little worried about how good you look Tyler honestly because you you kind of you're in this uncanny valley between fit adult male and like 16 year old.

This is a pretty common thing.

I am 27 years old and people often ask me if I am 16.

Yeah.

You've got a glow, buddy.

Yeah, this is weird.

And you should be Sarah.

You should be very happy.

I mean, he seems to have a nice personality as well.

He's perfect in every way but one.

Right.

But, you know, if he has already adjusted his diet according to my orders orders in the New York Times magazine and there has been no alleviation of the problem, it may never change.

Judge Hodgman.

You know

yes.

You know friend of the court Mary Roach, right?

I do, yes, of course.

The future of

numerous hilarious, fascinating, and edifying books about some of the grosser and more interesting parts of science.

Yes.

In her book, Gulp, about the alimentary canal,

she writes extensively on the subject.

That's the eating and pooping part.

Yeah.

She writes extensively on the subject of effluence.

Yes.

And she writes that there are, in fact, commercially available pills which neutralize the smell of farts.

These are not popular, at least according to their inventor, primarily

because people think their farts don't stink.

Tyler?

you think your fart don't stink?

I think you're looking at me right now thinking your fart don't stink, right?

I think it does.

You little 16-year-old.

You think it does smell bad?

So 16.

I think it's hard to objectively not say that a fart smells bad.

It smells bad, but like

it's not going to ruin your life.

Don't you want to change this in your life?

Sarah is obviously, you know, retching and gagging five times a day.

I feel like I'm pretty sure.

She's wonderful.

And let the record show to the listening audience, Sarah is also incredibly charming and attractive.

I mean, these two are

frankly offensive how good-looking these people are.

Yeah, why are they listening to podcasts?

No, really.

They're walking around absorbing the admiration of others.

Yeah, exactly.

Go watch a sport and be in a commercial or something, you guys.

Come on.

You don't need us.

Look at us.

I'm standing here in the nude and judges' robes and a beard.

I'm about to turn 47.

You should run as far away from us as possible.

What's wrong with you?

But I do order you to take those Mary Roach fart pills and continue to do whatever it takes to stop stinking up the place, Tyler.

This is the sound of a gap.

Sarah and Tyler.

I have been handed,

I have been handed by Sarah a home-illustrated oven mitt

with an illustration of a human bottom

farting.

It's for all your Griswold pans.

Happy birthday, Judge John Hodgman.

My mom made that.

Your mom made this?

She's in the audience now.

Thank you very much, mom.

It is also, it has the motto, you can't handle the toot on it.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Please welcome Eileen and Cullion.

Is that right, Cullian?

Did I get that right pronunciation wise?

Yep.

Oh,

nailed it.

Eileen and Cullian,

you have a dispute.

But you also have a story about how you met.

Is that not right?

Yes, that's correct.

What is the story of how you met?

So five years ago I had a dating profile, a website profile that mentioned my love of this podcast.

That's right.

A certain person

one person replied.

One person, yes.

One person replied about this.

Five years in particular, yes.

Saying, oh, a John Hodgman reference.

He said, I love podcasts.

Have you heard cereal?

No, he said a John Hodgman reference, we should definitely talk.

And this person was and is Cullian.

Yes, it is.

And you are also a Judge John Hodgman listener.

I'm more of a fan of your daily show.

Let's a record show.

He said, yes, I love Judge John Hodgman.

But thank you for those words as well.

But then, yes.

And then yesterday we got married.

And then today we're here.

And

you're here, obviously, because you already have a terrible dispute and you want me to divorce you.

Yes.

No, I know.

I asked you to come up with a dispute.

You didn't really have a good one because it's too early.

But you will.

And instead, we're here to give you a gift and to raise a toast to you.

We're going to have champagne, but I have another bottle of Malord.

Do you drink or no?

I do drink.

All right.

Here, you guys take this one.

Let the record reflect that Cullian just tried to play it off after sniffing and he's like, no big deal.

Just the grossest drink ever.

Cullian and Eileen,

I'm so glad

that my podcast and not any of my earlier work

was able to bring you together using the internet, and it is truly thrilling to me that you guys are married.

I wish you all the success and happiness in the world in this journey.

Do not look for disputes just to get on a podcast.

Cheers to you.

All right, now Eileen.

Let the record reflect that Cullian is now moated, corroded, and his booty has exploded.

You may keep the bottle.

Ladies and gentlemen, Cullian and Eileen,

thank you.

We want to thank all of the litigants for sharing their cases with us in Chicago.

We also want to thank OM for joining us.

Their first full-length album is called Parts.

It's coming out August 24th.

You can find it on Joyful Noise Recordings.

And if you're going to be in Chicago in July, OM is playing at Westfest on July 8th.

For more information, visit ohmmusic.com.

That's o-h-m-m-emusic.com.

Huge thanks to the staff at Talia Hall and our pals at the Onion Comedy and Arts Festival.

We had such a great time in Chicago.

Our thanks to everybody in Chicago.

The show was recorded by Steve Allman, our producer, and our stage manager, and our director, and

just in general, the responsible party of this program, Jennifer Marmer.

We're on Instagram at instagram.com slash judgejohnhodgman.

We've got photos and evidence from the show posted there and on the Judge John Hodgman page at maximumfund.org.

We will see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

MaximumFund.org.

Comedy and culture.

Artist-owned.

Listener-supported.