Live From Chicago, 2018

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week's episode was recorded live at Follya Hall in Chicago.

Let's go to the stage for some Chicago justice.

Tonight's case: Tilty or Not Tilty.

Shannon brings the case against her husband, Matt.

They currently have a pinball machine in their garage.

Matt would like to move it inside the house.

Shannon is opposed.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise metaphorically

as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

West of Arkham, the hills rise wild.

and there are valleys with deep woods that no axe has ever cut.

There are dark, narrow glens where the trees slope fantastically and where thin brooklets trickle without ever having caught the glint of sunlight, H.P.

Lovecraft wrote, end quote.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in.

Shannon and Matt, please raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God, or whatever?

I do.

Yep.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he recently graduated from pinball's sorcerer's apprentice to pinball wizard?

Even more so.

Yes.

Judge Hodgman.

Shannon and Matt, you may be metaphorically seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors in this case.

Can either of you guess the obscure cultural reference that I made as I entered the stage here at Tehalia Hall in Chicago, Illinois?

Shannon, why don't you go first?

The movie Tilt?

The movie Tilt.

A lot of Lovecraft in that movie.

Yeah.

Okay, I'll put that into the guest book right now.

I'm writing it at this very moment.

My fingertips.

All right, now.

It is Matt, correct?

Yes, Matthew or Matt.

Matthew or Matt?

Okay.

Yes.

I'm glad that you're ambivalent about your own identity.

Just a name.

Just a name.

Okay.

What is your guess, sir?

That was very wordy for Tilt.

I'm going to guess.

What is Tilt?

Hang on, hang on a second.

Shan, what is Tilt?

I've never heard of this movie.

This is a movie, a pinball movie.

Pinball movie?

Is it a pinball movie or a pinball exploitation?

It is a movie about

it.

It's the only, only pinball movie ever.

Who's this like Rad, the BMX movie?

Brooke Shields, of course.

Brooke Shields?

When was it made?

70 something, very late.

Oh, okay.

I'll have to go check that out.

Matt or Matthew, what is your guess?

I'm going to say Wordsworth, for lack of better.

Wordsworth.

Yeah.

It has the distinctive.

It was a rhythm of Wordsworth.

Yeah, because Wordsworth was such a huge Lovecraft fan.

And Wordsworth was probably quoting Lovecraft a lot.

All guesses are not even trying.

Because you could have gotten this one, you guys.

You could have gotten this.

Because this involves, this involves a dispute involves a pinball machine specifically themed to what intellectual property?

Dragons?

Game of Thrones.

Thank you very much.

What's your favorite HBO show?

Dragons?

What's your favorite book series?

Dragons.

It was a George R.

R.

Martin quote.

Damn, I knew it was done.

You can move a little bit closer to the mic.

Please mutter more closely.

I was told not to be funny, but I knew it was going to be a George R.

R.

Martin quote.

I know you're a Berg fan, so I tried my best.

It was a George R.

R.

Martin quote, specifically George R.

R.

Martin quoting at length H.P.

Lovecraft in a quote that he wrote in support of a book called Vacation Land by John Hodgson.

You might not have known it, because it wasn't on the hardcover, but it's the first thing in the paperback.

By My Design, which is for sale this evening by the Women and Children First Bookstore are selling pre-signed copies here tonight.

I'm going to give you guys one more chance.

Now that you know the realm of

subject matter that I'm referencing obscurely, can you name who said this quote?

I.

End quote.

Once again, it is I, and I'll spell it for you: A-Y-E-I.

Shannon, Matt, Matthew.

I'm going to go for the guy with the big red beard because that's pretty much all he says anyway.

Red Beard?

Yes.

Big Red Beard?

Big fan of the dragons, aren't you?

A tar.

You know, he's my favorite.

Now I'm searching desperately for that character's name.

Tolmar or something, right?

You know what my favorite part is.

By the way, hang on, I'm going to get the what?

Torman?

Torman Dragons?

Toruman Traith.

Okay.

Thank you.

Please go ahead, Jason.

Do you know what my favorite part of dragons is?

Dragon Ball Z?

Chair.

Shannon, I presume you do not have a guess as to who said I or what I'm referring to?

I'm just going to say no.

It's unlikely, because unless you were going through my private emails, you would never know that I, A-Y-E, is the one-word response I received in an email from Peter Dinklage.

Oh.

In response to the question,

hello, Peter, this is John Hodgman.

I'm in Las Vegas right now quick question do you provide the voice for the Game of Thrones slot machine

hi

do you have on your Game of Thrones pinball machine any Dinklage words there is no Dinklage no Dinklage

oh so it'll do the slots but not the silver ball huh there might be a show quote snob there might be a show quote but it's not specifically for the pinball quote.

Because Peter Dinklage is all over this Game of Thrones slots machine.

Okay, no, not like that.

He's the main character, and he's talking all the way through it.

And I felt like,

anyway.

Well,

the best quote is the night is long and full of terrors.

There's many people that say that same quote.

Including you, right there.

You just said it.

Oh, you mean in the pinball machine?

Yes, in the pinball machine, like, you know, when things happen.

Okay, let's talk about your case.

Shannon, what is the nature of your dispute?

So, for my 40th birthday, a couple of years ago, I was given, I was surprised with, a Game of Thrones pinball machine from my husband, which is...

It's, John, it's like that time I gave my wife for her birthday a bowling ball that said Homer.

Or when I gave you that poncho that time.

Private joke.

Anyway,

was this a surprise that was like surprise like, like, oh, I can't believe how thoughtful you are, Matter Matthew, or a surprise that was more like, why is this happening?

It was just unexpected.

I was, you know, kind of hoping for something else, and instead, he's like, we're going somewhere, and it's a surprise.

And he brought me to the pinball place.

What were you hoping for?

A girls' pinball machine?

I was hoping for a West World pinball machine

last week tonight with John Oliver.

Multi-ball.

Like a grown-up watch.

A grown-up watch.

You know, grown-up stuff.

And instead, you got a full-size, arcade-quality Game of Thrones pinball machine.

Matt or Matthew.

This is not going well.

John, I think it could also be characterized as, instead, you found out they still make pinball machines.

Okay, I'm going to interject right now.

Stern pinball, just out of Chicago.

One of the last manufacturers that still makes them in-house and ships them.

Stern Pinball.

Objection sustained.

And

one of the lowest energy buzz marketing that I've ever

the sport and the craft of pinball and Stern, and it is a classic American, hang on, this is a praise for you.

It won't be forever, but right now,

and pinball is a classic classic American diversion that is dying in the age of land parties.

That's a thing still.

I don't know if you know what I mean.

And

it's great in an old-timey town like Chicago, yeah, right?

In the time of ColecoVision, that there's still

an old-timey.

They're bringing that back to.

I'm sure they are.

There's still an old-timey manufacturer of pinball right here in Chicago.

And I appreciate your buzz marketing it, but just for the people who could not see this who are listening now when Matter Matthews said woo he pumped his fist but you could barely raise it it was just

it was true it was truly like I'm not sure I should be doing this

it's it's tough to get a woot about Chicago in a room about people from Chicago so

it's tough nothing harder than pandering

I wasn't trying to pander then

look all my Chicago references are sports related.

It's actually hard for me to pander in this room.

Yeah, I think if you were talking about an old-timey pinball manufacturer in Chicago, I bet there are a lot of people who would be behind that.

Let's hear a bit, what's it called again?

The company.

Stern pinball.

Stern.

Stern.

Give it an appropriate like.

Stern pinball.

Stern pinball.

Yay!

Now let's hear it for Harold Baines.

I did okay, considering.

All right.

I've been having some fun at your expense, but tell me.

That's okay, I don't mind.

Tell me about this pinball machine and what it means to you and where it is in your house, because this is part of the dispute, correct, Shannon?

Yeah.

Where is it currently?

It is currently in our garage.

Now,

our garage is...

But you would prefer to have it in your bedroom next to your side of the bed, so every morning you can wake up and think about Matt and or Matthew

giving you such a precious gift.

No, actually, I love it right where it is.

Okay.

It is perfectly great in the garage.

But, Matthew, you would like to bring it out of the garage.

I would.

Yes, I would.

And it's been there for a couple of years based on my recognition.

So she's going to turn 42 this year.

Sorry.

Happy.

So

it'll be two years in October.

That was actually not on the.

I'm sorry about that.

You know, you malign the Chicago audience

as though they're unenthusiastic about Chicago, which is wrong.

They're hard to pander to, which is wrong.

Look, if I just bring out that bottle of malor, people are going to be a standing ovation.

But somehow,

somehow,

you have turned this audience into an antagonist for all of us.

You have turned this Chicago audience into a Philadelphia audience.

They're going to be throwing batteries soon enough.

I want you to understand that I can't agree to that one.

I love that you have this pinball machine.

I wish I had this pinball machine.

I wish I lived in your house.

And I am absolutely open to your idea of bringing the pinball machine out of the garage and into the heart of your daily life.

But you're going to need to make your case for it now.

Where do you want it to be and why do you want it to be there?

I mean, to be fair, it's not just a garage, it's our laundry room, it's the tool room, there's a bumper pool table there.

Like, there's no cars parked there.

Bumper pool?

Yeah.

Why, that's an insult to pinball.

I thought you were going to say an insult to pool, but that's okay.

So, we have a small split-level ranch.

It's awesome down there.

It's been so much fun.

We

am trying to

have some notes here.

It's a beautiful pinball machine.

It's actually numbered, number 347 of 700.

Woo!

Which is pretty awesome if you're

a pinball machine.

That was a legit woo.

That was not sarcastic.

You've got a collectible.

And I came upon it by an accident.

There's a really cool guy in West Chicago who sells a bunch of awesome pinball machines and women only.

So she told a story where she thought I was taking her to pick out jewelry, and then we showed her up at a pinball shop.

And she actually, no, I can't reiterate this enough.

This is her machine.

She loves it.

I did not buy this for myself.

Everybody that I talk to says, oh, you bought it for yourself.

I really didn't.

Like, she loves this machine.

She has every high score but one, and that's the only thing I have.

The Tyrell house is the only game, it's the only high score I have.

Okay, she's got everything, she's got winners coming, she has absolutely everything on this machine.

So don't let her think that it's not hers.

I'm going to pause there.

She's got everything from dragon to snow,

from ice, to fire, snow dragon.

uh hang on i'm just going to interrupt for a moment to let the record show to the listening audience that shannon was nodding when matter matthew was talking about the fact that she loves this machine and that she has all the high scores but one do you have the highest score matthew on the house tyrell just because she doesn't play that house just because right because but she would own that too yeah pretty much right she would be she would be uh

king of the andals and all seven kingdoms and whatever else there's no doubt were it not why don't you play house tyrell because because they're betrayers right?

They're awful.

It's the easiest house.

Oh, Tyrell is his?

Yeah, he's already got his name on it.

Oh, okay.

You just want to leave him a little bit of dignity, is what you're saying.

It's the last name left.

I used to have a lot more.

So, without going to your notes,

just tell me, because I presume you know this, where

in your split-level ranch do you want this pinball machine to live?

Technically, it's called the good room, because it's the main room when you walk in, and there you go.

That's it.

The main room where you walk in.

Yeah, so technically speaking.

Yeah, that's right.

I'm not sure if you guys know this architectural term.

Some of you may be architects, but not yet licensed.

Right.

So.

Coined by Frank Lloyd Wright in Oak Park.

Every house has a good room.

Yeah, you see, they'll even applaud Frank Lloyd Wright up in Chicago.

I don't want you to malign.

Why didn't nobody, like, Stern Pin...

Why didn't nobody?

This is some of the most panderingest audiences in the world.

Give yourselves a round of applause, Chicago.

I rest my case.

Local 134.

Shannon,

this actually, I love the description of this room as the good room, because I almost feel like I don't need to ask.

There is a good room in every home or dwelling.

What is the good room in your dwelling?

Well, it's just too small to be a great room.

Ah, ah.

What rooms does your not-so-very great room comprise?

Living room and kitchen and dining area?

More or less, yes.

All of those?

Like from the front door, you can see like our living, the whole thing almost, but like the living room and then the dining room and the kitchen's like hiding behind a wall.

Right.

So this would be pride of place in your home to have your pinball machine there.

I mean, mean, it's the first thing you'd see.

Right.

And that's it.

And Matthew is nodding enthusiastically right now.

He is smiling as I have never seen him smile before.

Why is it important to you to have this pinball machine right in the front and center?

Did you see pictures of it out of curiosity?

I have reviewed the pictures.

They are beautiful, and they are available for your reviewing pleasure at maximumfund.org, the Judge John Hodgman page, or Instagram.com/slash judgejohodgman.

It's a gorgeous machine.

You think that it would be an aesthetic.

It's really beautiful.

It's hand-drawn art.

It's fan art.

I mean, it wasn't the machine I got, I sought out to buy of the three levels of the Game of Thrones pinball machine that Stern does sell.

So you're definitely going to get

from Westeros.

I wasn't sure.

I mean, she has been playing this Pirates of the Caribbean machine that is my brother's forever.

Every time we go to my brother's house, it's just like Pirates of the Caribbean pinball, Pirates of the Cambrian pinball.

I think she deleted my scores, honestly, on that Pirates of the Caribbean

pinball machine.

So, Shannon,

yeah, it's all right.

So, the machine is beautiful.

I mean, like, anybody can Google it.

It's like, you know, as soon as they pulled it out in West Chicago, as soon as the guy pulled it out, it was, she was sold.

You know, she was sold.

She chose it.

Hang on, hang on.

She chose it over the Guns and Roses machine.

Would you speak for yourself and not for Shannon?

Which is huge.

Can I ask Shannon?

Yes.

The moment that they pulled it out, you sold.

Do you love this pinball machine?

Obviously, I love this pinball machine.

All right.

Yes.

Fantastic.

Good job.

You got a good present.

Thanks.

I guess it's not the part of the case, though, right?

Well,

it does play into it, but yes.

But you don't want this in your good room.

No.

No.

Have you tried putting it in there to see how it would look?

Well, no.

I mean, I've drawn pictures of how it would look.

I've put boxes up on how it would look, and it's huge.

It's huge.

Right, there's no better way to approximate what a pinball machine would look like in a space than putting some boxes together and drawing a picture of Peter Dinklage on it.

I just think that's a good idea.

I mean, in Matter of Matthew's defense, that might show you with a footprint of it

in the good room, but not the overall effect.

Well, I mean, it'd be much louder.

I mean, it's lights flashing, and noises.

Does it make noise all the time when it's plugged through?

Every so often, it'll do like a dong

sound.

You have to.

Time tongue.

The night is dark and full of terror.

In the good room.

Does everyone sing Game of Thrones to the tune of the Game of Thrones song when it's playing on?

Game of.

Game of Thrones, Thrones, Game of Thrones.

Right?

Game of Thrones, Thrones.

Game of Thrones, Thrones.

Yes, exactly!

Okay, just wanted to make sure.

Still gets me going.

Yeah, because it's probably got a setting to attract people to come play it in an arcade where pinball machines belong.

Yes, but it's not constant, but every so often it will.

And then some birds.

It makes like

caw, like sounds every once in a while.

So it's occasional, but it's

not always.

That's because it's bringing you news from old boys.

Yes, exactly.

So

do you know the square footage of

your hold fast, your good room there?

What is like,

I don't.

You don't.

I don't.

Could you tell us how many boxes by how many boxes it is?

Yeah.

I would say that on the far wall, you could probably put side by side three and a half pinball machines.

I appreciate this new unit of measurement.

Is it a crowded space?

Yeah,

we're a family of four.

We've got some pets.

And

it's like a 1950s split-level ranch.

It's not big.

So everything is crowded, yes.

So you would not even be willing to give it a try?

Well, part of the issue is that to move a pinball machine,

that's like a pro job.

That's not something that

he and I are going to.

Is that true that you would need a professional matter, Matthew, to move it in?

When I told my son that he wanted to move it, he said, absolutely not.

And then I said that, don't worry, you and I are not moving it.

And he said, yes, I want to move it upstairs.

Oh, okay.

It wasn't that he decided with his mom.

Narrow staircases, it has to kind of fold down, go out the garage, around and up, and out the garage, around and up.

So you would need, yeah.

I don't want to hear, I don't want to be part of your

part of your DD campaign all of a sudden.

So it's my first time.

I search for hidden doors.

It's a time move.

It's a one-time move.

Do you think, will you stay in this house for a long time to come?

Is this your home home, or do you think there's a move to come in the future?

For the foreseeable future, we're going to stay put.

Yeah, I mean, you know, we've got big plans.

Right.

Who doesn't?

Okay.

So,

Matter Matthew, this is Shannon's pinball machine in a home that you share with her.

You floated this idea of moving the pinball machine.

She has said no.

Why is it so important that you defend this important?

I'll definitely get open this.

All right.

Let the record show he's going back to his notes.

Let the record show his notes are a picture of his mouth with a foot in it.

That's only the first page.

I mean, it really is a a beautiful machine machine.

Okay, we're a family of four, like she said, okay?

Your honor, the beauty of the pinball machine has been established.

I know.

Sustained.

So right now, the pinball machine is between the laundry room and the workshop/slash

area in the garage, where there's no cars parked because it's very small, okay?

And it's just

a workshop.

There's just a pile of tools, you know, who knows whatever happens down there.

But the record show.

But Shannon just pointed her herself.

Is the workshop your workshop?

Well,

I like to try to make stuff, so I'm in there.

Like what kind of stuff?

I made a cat door.

Nice.

That's pretty dope.

You mean a flap?

No, it was just a hole.

But I used a saw

and I trimmed it out.

Oh, very nice.

Thank you.

All right.

I'm trying to get some real evidence down here, but besides the symbols, no, you can't see it.

Because I've heard everything I need to do, so this is you.

Please say your last few comments.

Nobody can come and play it.

There's laundry all the time where Family Four laundry explodes.

There's no fighting laundry.

Everyone here knows that laundry is laundry.

So between the tools and the laundry, it is constantly around stuff.

So when we first got it, it was awesome.

Because we were constantly playing it, but now it's just laundry all around it all the time.

Last week, we thought about the name.

And so.

My job.

Easy Philadelphia.

Obviously, he has no kids.

I'll have you know.

Kids.

Kids in laundry or kids in laundry or kids in laundry.

Everyone knows that laundry is laundry.

Kids in laundry.

And we're busy playing pinball.

Like you go to the garage, do laundry, and there's the pinball.

I wound upstairs.

Yeah, but you would like to have friends.

come over for a pinball night.

No, even myself.

I don't want to stand on the laundry when I want to play it.

Even it's just by me.

I see.

Okay.

That's it.

Is there any other place besides the center of your living area where this pinball machine could go?

It could go to the left center of the Lynch living area.

I believe I've heard everything I need in order to make my decision.

I'm going to go to my chambers, consider your case.

I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Let the record reflect that Matt and Shannon really love each other.

There we go.

There we go.

Shannon, what would happen to your life if this pinball machine that you love was more easily accessible?

Well, it definitely hits those reward centers in my brain, so it might become a problem.

So you'd become addicted to gambling, in other words.

That's what I would guess.

How do you feel about your chances in the case?

Oh, I've got this.

Now they're checking.

Matt.

Matt, how are you feeling about your chances?

I was really good coming in.

Like, I felt really, you know, you had the notes, and

I think the notes actually worked against me,

but I still had him anyway, and I'm proud.

So

I think it'll be,

I don't know, we decided to do whatever he says, so I'm pretty sure I'm, you know,

star, star, star, E, D.

So

farted.

What are you getting Shannon for her next birthday?

I don't know.

Please say Zaxon.

Please say Zaxxon.

Please say Zaxon.

Actually, it's our 20th anniversary this year, so I kind of like, you know, hold on to that one first.

So then I'll figure out her

blank birthday.

Centipede and then Zaxxon.

Centipede and Zaxon.

There's room that she said, there's three plus, plus, plus, plus, plus room for machines upstairs.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

First of all, Matt and Shannon, happy anniversary.

Thank you.

I don't know what is the 20th anniversary traditional gift.

I didn't have my phone here.

I do, but I'm not going to say that.

Will someone use their phone to look it up?

All right, I feel like I'm in Philadelphia again.

Hey, Siri, what is the traditional gift for a 20th anniversary?

It's a diamond.

Jeez, nobody knows it's a diamond?

I don't think that it's a diamond.

Hey, Siri.

Hey, Siri.

China.

All right.

Good to know.

First of all, Manchen, happy anniversary in advance.

Thank you.

Happy birthday.

Happy birthday in advance.

Thank you very much.

Thank you to the audience for providing the answer to my question that China is the traditional 20th anniversary gift, and I, at the moment, I'm unable to think of some China Game of Thrones tie-in joke, so I'll move on to my verdict instead.

I forgot my gavel when I traveled here today.

Luckily, Thalia Hall provided me with this mallet.

I will be rendering judgment with a war hammer tonight.

For the at-home listener, Judge Hodgman has pulled out a prop from the saw movies.

I like to call it little Mjolner.

Matt, Matthew, I agree with you

that this thing, having seen these photos,

this thing is a work of art.

I am jealous of you, both because you have a cool mid-to-upper level grade Game of Thrones pinball machine in your home that you can use anytime.

and that you have an incredibly

loving and patient wife named Shannon, who also likes pinball.

And this is, everything about this

is fantastic and should make you happy.

And yet you are determined to be unhappy.

She wanted a watch.

You gave her something amazing.

and very clearly very Matt or Matthewy.

Is this unit's not true?

No.

No, this is.

This is.

He nailed it.

Like, this is

a good idea for me.

Oh, yeah.

Way better than a watch.

Yeah, no, no, I'm saying, like,

is it in his nature to

make a gesture like this to sort of really surprise and wow you and go in a different direction and have it be the right choice?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think he's going to.

There we go.

See, we're back in Chicago now.

For the at-home listener, Matt gazed adorably at his wife

and the audience.

And I bet he's going to give you some beautiful collectible china plates with Tywin Lannister on them.

Come on, Charles Dance is the greatest actor on that show.

Barnett.

In any case,

You should be happy and proud of yourself, Matt.

Thank you.

And I also agree with you that, first of all, walking around with this hammer is very satisfying.

I also agree with you that this pinball machine is in a lesser place than it deserves in your home and in your life.

That shoved between the laundry area and Shannon's make-a-hole-in-a-door workshop

Is no place

for this work of mechanical diverting art, shall we say.

Neither is your goodroom, though.

I mean,

I wish that you had a place in your home where you could have a Game of Thrones pinball machine and have it not be in the center of your life.

I wish there were a pride of place where you could put it that is both deserving of its artistry and a place where you would enjoy using it more because you are out there in the margins of society out there in the garage.

That is a place where people go to feel sadness and shame.

Or just

you know, yeah, the night is dark and full of terrors out there.

But you just don't, you don't have the house to do it in.

Never mind the fact that you share this house with other humans.

And specifically, I don't want to hear about how much your son wants to have a pinball machine in the living room.

He just doesn't want to move it.

He doesn't care.

Yeah, no, okay.

Yeah, but he doesn't pay for the house.

And also, how old is he?

He's 17.

17, yeah, right.

He'll take a pinball machine anywhere he can get it.

I don't know.

Yeah, no, I mean, I thought you were going to say it was like 11 or 12.

No, he's my mother.

And when I was 11 or 12, I was like, yeah, I would want a pinball machine in my living room and like a fire pole from my room down to the basement and also a swimming pool full of sharks in the

moat.

But in any case, most of all, you share this house and your life with your partner, Shannon.

And unfortunately, if your

co-habitant and

life partner says no on something as big as a big honking pinball machine in the middle of the living room, that's veto power right there.

I'm sorry that she doesn't want her gift in the good room,

but she doesn't.

And that's just the way it is.

And there's no way that I or Lil Manjolner here would nullify that decision.

I will make this order, however, in consideration of the piece of art that you own, your enjoyment of it, and your desires in life matter, Matthew.

And that is,

if you move,

there has has to be a Game of Thrones pinball room in the house.

That has to be part of the criteria of the new home that you move.

And I appreciate that might

cost a little bit more

than a house without a Game of Thrones pinball machine room.

But on the other hand,

you bought a Game of Thrones pinball machine.

Yeah, there's no such thing as a watch room, buddy.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgen rules, that is all.

Matt and Shannon, ladies and gentlemen.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at maximumfund.org, and they are all your favorites.

If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic.

Just go to maximumfund.org/slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Let me ask you a question.

Did you know that most of the dishes served at Tom Clicchio's craft restaurant are made in, made in pots and pans?

It's true.

The Brace Short Ribs, Made In, Made In.

The Rohan Duck Riders of Rohan, Made In, Made in.

That heritage pork chop that you love so much.

You got it.

It was made in, made in.

But made in isn't just for professional chefs.

It's for home cooks too.

And even some of your favorite celebratory dishes can be amplified with made in cookware.

It's the stuff that professional chefs use, but because it is sold directly to you, it's a lot more affordable.

uh than some of the other high-end brands we're both big fans of the carbon steel.

I have a little

carbon steel skillet that my mother-in-law loves to use because cast iron is too heavy for her, but she wants that non-stick.

And I know that she can, you know, she can heat that thing up hot if she wants to use it hot.

She can use it to braise if she wants to use it to braise.

It's an immensely useful piece of kitchen toolery.

And it will last a long time.

And whether it's griddles or pots and pans or knives or glassware or tableware, I mean, you know, Jesse, I'm sad to be leaving Maine soon, but I am very, very happy to be coming back to my beloved made-in entree bowls.

All of it is incredibly solid, beautiful, functional, and as you point out, a lot more affordable because they sell it directly to you.

If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common.

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For full details, visit madeincookwear.com.

That's m-a-d-e-i-n cookware.com.

Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Jesse Thorin,

oh bailiff, my bailiff, those of you who have not attended a Judge John Hodgman live show before may not realize that it's not just us up yapping justice at your ears, but also we always have very talented musical guests.

And that tonight is no exception.

Yeah, that's right.

Ladies and gentlemen, they performed with Tweety and with Chance the Rapper.

Please welcome to the stage Seema Cunningham and Macy Stewart of the band OM.

OM, ladies and gentlemen.

When the lights came into focus,

they had a thousand fingerprints

Perfectly symmetrical floating

in your head

You sat on a piano

But you weren't sure just how

You're sick from all the yesterdays But they're dying down inside your life

buddy,

your life.

Oh,

I was shaking.

I

was looking at the beach.

I thought

for sure

she was lost,

but she flew high above the waterfall.

The rains of every picture have started dripping out your ears.

There's no room for nostalgia.

I'm understanding

the idea

You love

I was shaking

I love her her

looking at the peak.

I thought

for sure

she was lost.

But all this time I saw you cry

unchanging love, telling stories in my mind

and hearing your call.

And suddenly, my understanding

was back to real.

Suddenly, I have the feeling I didn't know you at all.

All I thought you mind

I'm changing love

in my mind.

I'm hearing your call.

And I wanted to build you a ladder,

but you cut my rope.

And I wanted to climb up behind you.

But you told me no.

I just wanna be better.

I wanna be better.

I wanna be better.

Wanna be better.

I wanna be better.

Oh,

I was shaking.

I love her

getting at the pee.

I thought for sure

she was lost,

but she flew high above the waterfall.

Home

I'll call you on the telephone

and tell you that I'm finding ways to occupy my brain.

I'm saying we're not here.

there

Not trying to get you

But all I got is some direction standing from the truth

I'm moved, you're everywhere

Oh, it's sorry.

Man,

he He thinks about woman

But never when the time is right He barely makes the call

He falls so that we cannot catch you

not

ready to be swept up in this wave

the gaze of not knowing

that I

I

find

I

find

I

find

fine

I

find

I

find

I

find.

That's home, ladies and gentlemen.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news, we still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined!

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Long.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Now, Judge Hodgman, Chicago is a big city.

That's true.

And that means it needs...

It's the biggest city in Illinois.

That means that it needs a lot of justice.

That's right.

But we're running short on time.

How are we going to solve this, Jesse?

The only thing I can think is to kick things up a notch.

Match up!

Match up!

Let's do some swift justice.

Classic catchphrase.

Are you transformed into like David Byrne or something?

Match up.

Are you ready for some swift justice, ladies and gentlemen?

Jesse Cole,

how are we going to do it?

We're going to put 15 minutes on the clock.

And we are going to breeze through three intense in-person cases.

Are you ready for this, Judge Hodgman?

Are you prepared for this kind of justice?

One moment, please.

Yes, I am, Jesse.

Well, then, let's do it.

Please welcome Brad and Janine.

Brad

and Janine, hello.

Hello.

Which of you seeks justice in this court?

Who brings this case to me?

I do, Your Honor.

Brad, what is the nature of your dispute with Janine?

Janine insists on getting ready and going to bed before me.

Oh, really?

What our schedule is.

And you've met her before?

You have some relationship with her?

Yeah,

she's my girlfriend, and we live together.

Oh, she's your girlfriend.

Girlfriend, you say.

Yes.

Not spouse.

Not spouse.

And you live together.

That's right.

Well, that's just fine.

So why are you upset?

Janine, what's he talking about?

What's the problem?

I do insist on going to bed first.

And so if he wants to go to bed earlier than me, I will either guilt him into staying up later or I will run to beat him into the bed first.

Are you talking about competitive bedtiming?

Yes.

What do you do for a living?

I'm an analyst on a sales team.

Okay, and what time do you like to go to bed?

If you had some hard physical labor and you had to go to bed early or something, or you got up early or you worked weird hours.

I get up at six.

Okay, but go to bed.

You're just normal.

Don't worry about it.

You don't like work third shift doing analysis for a sales team.

Right, exactly.

Go to bed at 8:30, but plan to read for an hour, hour and a half.

What is your age?

38.

38 years old.

You look great for 83.

Yeah.

You're 38 years old.

That means until midnight tonight, you are 10 years younger than me.

No.

Someone else do it.

That means until midnight tonight.

At midnight tonight, you will be, never mind.

Yale University, ladies and gentlemen.

The point is, you're but a child.

You want to get in bed at 8.30 and then you're going to read a book?

Yeah.

What are you reading?

I just finished the,

I forget the name of it, the Patrick Rothus novella.

Oh, cool.

Yeah.

You're a Roth fussy?

Recently, recent convert.

Okay, it's fantastic.

Great guy, great beard.

Yes.

Okay.

So,

and how long will you read for before you go to sleep?

An hour to an hour and a half.

Now, is it important that you fall asleep before he does, or just be in bed?

Just be in bed.

Now, if I may ask, are you around the same age, would you say?

Yeah, just a couple years younger.

Just in bed.

Oh, right.

Okay, exactly.

And what time would you prefer to go to bed?

I mean, all things.

I mean, 8:30 is pretty early.

It's not very many hours, isn't it?

How long have you guys been going out?

Did you know he was like this when you?

I did, but we moved in together in January.

How long were you dating before then?

About two years, but the weekends are different than the weekday.

He'll stay up later on the weekend.

He'll party all night long.

Right.

Right?

Reading Patrick Rothfuss together at the night.

They're long books.

It's true.

It's true.

It's true.

Yeah, well, Patrick Rothwell's novella is only about 700 pages long.

So what time would you prefer to go to bed?

When you are living alone.

Maybe like 10 o'clock?

Yeah, 10 o'clock, like a grown-up.

Right.

Right.

Now, we we both agree that Brad is a mutant when it comes to bedtime.

He's an anomaly.

Yes.

But you also are weird because

you have to get in bed before he does and you will rush in there.

Yes.

Is that true?

What does she do?

If you say, well, it's getting on 7.15 now.

So this is what I'm saying.

I need to get into my PJs before Jeopardy is over.

Yeah.

Generally the process is I'll announce I'm going to go get ready for bed.

Well, I'm sure you do.

And

so she can jump up and go to our, we only have one bathroom, so claim the bathroom.

Right.

And then I wait until she finishes.

But if she doesn't immediately go, I'll go, oh, this is my chance.

And then I'll stand up.

At that point, she jumps up and runs around me to get into the bathroom.

Why is it important to you to be in bed before him?

I think I want that time to get settled, but if I'm by myself in the bed, he'll mix up the blankets and the pillows and he'll have it be a tangled mess where then I can't get in.

And I want that time to be in bed first.

Have you ever thought about

what's going on when you read that Patrick Rothfuss?

Janine, have you ever thought about just peeing on the bed like that?

What do you care if she runs into bed before you?

I mean, you're getting what you want,

your early, snuggly Rothfist time.

What do you care if she jumps up and gets into bed with you?

She loves you.

Yeah, I would like to just be able to go to bed when I want to without having a wait section, a mandatory wait section.

If it happens that we go to bed at the same time, that's fine.

A mandatory what session?

Wait.

Oh, while she gets ready for bed.

Well, how long does it take?

Five minutes.

But again, these Rothfist books are very long.

And

there's times when,

pull a long day analyzing things.

Get home very tired.

I don't want to hear about how hard it is to analyze.

Right.

Get home, and I even want to get in bed sooner just to rest and veg.

Look, here's the thing.

Have you ever brought your bed to a restaurant?

Great.

Great friend of the podcast, Linda Holmes, an expert witness on this show

in past and I hope in future, pointed out with great wisdom that everyone has their little weirdsies.

And you guys definitely do.

They're not even that weirdsies.

They're more small, kind of typical weirdsies that are developed after years of living alone.

Or at least not with a boyfriend, girlfriend,

spousal equivalent deal, a cohabitant, shall we say.

Accurate.

And so you're used to your little snuggly times with your fancy novels and going to bed whenever you want.

You've never had to wait five minutes to go to bed ever before in your life.

And when one has privilege and it's pointed out that that's privilege, it feels like injustice.

And similarly

Similarly, Janine,

you've always been able to get into a nice, fresh, clean bed that hasn't just just been destroyed that nobody's Rothfist off

by Brad's restless leg syndrome or whatever

all your life and I'm gonna tell you right now

that will never ever change you have chosen to share a bed and a home together and these weirdsies are just gonna go boom boom boom boom against each other forever over and over and over again

all of this is why I am sentencing you guys to separate and move apart.

No, unfortunately, you would like me to rule that bedtime be uncoupled.

Is that what you say?

What does that mean?

Uncoupled makes

we could choose to go to bed when we wish to, and we are not.

That's exactly what's happening.

That's exactly what's happening.

You're choosing to go to bed at the time you want to go to bed, and she's choosing to go to bed right before you, no matter what time it is.

You should feel happy that she wants to be in that bed with you.

And

that she accepts that you want to go to bed at seven-year-old time.

I wish that my six-year-old went to bed when you go to bed.

But I will say this.

I will say this.

You can't torture him into staying up later either.

But you can beat him in there.

That's fine.

It's all fair.

It's all fair game.

Try not to mess things up.

Try not to, you know, whatever.

But everyone goes to bed whenever they want.

This is the sound of a gabble.

Brad and Janine.

Please welcome Rachel and Ted.

Rachel

and Ted.

Are you...

A couple?

Yes.

Are you a married couple?

Yes.

And you live together?

Yes.

If If you had said no, that would have been so odd.

Because then you would have been my favorite married couple of all time.

It's the, I mean, it's in many ways the best solution.

You also own a business together?

Yes.

What is your business?

It's a veiling company, it's a bridal business.

We do custom wedding gowns.

You do custom wedding gowns?

That's fantastic.

And what is the nature of your dispute?

Well, so we live in the city, and we oftentimes will run errands together.

Let the record show that Ted is laughing.

We will run errands together.

It is now dawning on him what's going to happen.

That the habits that within the confines of a marriage

or singledom that seem normal and run of the mill, like going to bed at 8.30 when you're 38 years old, when put on stage are going to, you know, under the scrutiny of the people of Chicago, are going to feel a little bit strange.

So let's hear about his weirdsy.

Yes, so we will run errands together, and Ted prefers to drive, so I let him do the driving, and then I sit in the passenger seat and do the running into the store, grab the thing, come back.

But while I'm gone, he likes to be sitting there, you know, in the alley or double-parked or whatever, and fire up a live online game on his phone.

On his phone, is this what is referred to here as Boat Game?

Yes, Boat Game.

What is that something all the kids are playing?

Boat game?

Battle Bay.

What is it?

It's called Battle Bay.

It's by Rovio, the same people that make Angry Birds.

Oh, okay.

Thank you very much.

I hope those guys enjoy those sales that I've gotten a part of.

I'll just buzz marketing again and say pre-signed editions of Vacation Land are available.

And courtesy, women and children first bookstore right there in the lobby.

So, and I will be,

and I will be accepting cash payments.

No services rendered.

So that, but boat, I don't want to hear the description of boat game, but the point is that when you start boat game, you just can't stop.

Right.

Right.

And it needs to finish.

And you make Rachel wait for you.

Yes.

Right?

So

you've gone on your errand.

You're like, I got to go get some veil material for my wedding gown.

I got to go to

what kind of material is that?

Tool?

Is that tool?

Tool?

Yes.

I got got to go to the tool shed.

I just invented a new business.

It's a big box store.

It sells only tool.

And then you come out.

It shares a strip ball with the Voile ball court.

I love it.

It's great.

And then you come out.

It is good, Ted.

I thank you very much.

Organza Stravaganza.

I didn't hear it organza extravaganza organza extravaganza

these are actual types of fabric that would be in wedding gowns these aren't just types of fabric specificity folks

so you got your five bolts of tool under your arm you put them in your hatchback and Ted's like I can't go I got to play boat game for another how long does it take well like sometimes five to ten minutes Five to ten minutes.

He tells me.

Why can't people wait five minutes for anything anymore?

He tells me.

Yeah, Ted, with all due respect, just pee in the kitchen sink.

What is the reasoning for not saving the game and

pausing and doing it later?

He doesn't want to let down his guild.

It's live.

It's a live game.

I can't pause it.

You know, he likes to have respect for others.

What do you do

while he's boat gaming?

I sit there and stare at him.

Yeah.

I consider that punishment enough.

I sentence you to time-served, time-stared.

But you can wait five to ten minutes to finish boat game.

He's driving you around.

This is the sound of a gap.

Welcome.

Thank you, Chicago.

Rachel and Ted.

Please welcome Dan and Jen.

I got some of that Philadelphia back, didn't I?

Bring on your batteries.

I don't care.

You ever be on a boat and hear an air horn?

Pyum, pew, pew!

Who are you?

I am Jen.

Hello, Jen.

And you are, sir?

I'm Dan.

And you are Dan.

And Dan, one moment, please.

Sorry, I had to.

Right, all right.

Oh, yeah.

Dan and Jen, hello.

I know your names.

It's nice to meet you.

Dan, you bring Jen to this court seeking justice.

What is the nature of your dispute?

Well, Judge, I love my wife very much,

but she likes to walk around the house watching shows about murder on her iPad

without headphones.

I see.

Are you a fan of true crime?

Yes, very much.

What kind of shows are you watching?

It ranges.

It could be anything from like...

The boat game murders.

Yes.

If that existed, maybe.

Right.

Anything from like forensic files to criminal minds to how to get away with murder.

I'm not picky.

Anything to do with murder?

Crime, like solving crime.

Crime and true crime.

So not always just murder, but.

Listen to that great podcast.

Your favorite murder?

I love that podcast.

Probably one of my favorites.

Yeah.

And

that's people talking about murders, right?

Right.

Not reenacting murders.

Correct.

Now, Karen has murdered a few people.

But that was back when she worked on Ellen.

It was part of the hazing.

Yeah.

Dan, you don't like hearing these true crime.

What disturbs you about these true crime things?

That

she's watching them on a tablet?

Yeah, on an iPad.

We have a TV downstream.

downstairs.

iPad, that's an Apple computer product.

Yeah, it's like a generic surface, I know.

Forgive him.

Forgive him, Apple.

Hey, Siri, why didn't I bring my surface on stage?

Oh, Father Tim Cook, please forgive him.

I'm still here for you.

Call me.

Call me.

Okay, so she's wandering around with her tablet, her iPad tablet, and I hear the sound on those is pretty good.

Yeah, it's pretty good.

And

you find the sound of it distracting, disturbing?

Well, yeah.

As a non-viewer, like, especially I don't see it coming, neither do the victims, but just the sound of streaming victims is very disturbing to me.

Wise acredness has never been a good look for husbands on this show.

That was a pretty good turn of phrase there.

If I know my true crime shows, he'll be murdering soon.

He is wearing a cardigan.

Let the record show my friend Dan is wearing

a somewhat serial killery cardigan.

It has

answered.

Jen, you're nodding.

You're the expert.

Yep.

Yep, I would agree.

Did Did you bring any evidence, audio evidence, of what you're hearing so that we could evaluate whether or not Jen's habit is indeed disturbing?

I did.

The sound that I submitted was the audio that caused me to file the case.

And what is this audio from?

Do you know what the show is or the topic?

This is the Netflix John Benet Ramsey documentary.

And if you can paint us a picture, what were you doing when you heard this audio?

I was sitting in the office adjacent to the bedroom where she was watching it,

doing work on my computer.

Let's go to the tape.

I find in Dan's favors, get some headphones, Jen.

Dan and Jen, ladies and gentlemen.

We want to thank OM for joining us in Chicago.

They're releasing their first full-length album later on this summer.

And if you're going to be in Chicago in July, OM is playing at WestFest on July 8th.

For more information, visit ohmmusic.com, O-H-M-M-E, music.com.

Huge thanks to the staff at Talya Hall and our pals at the Onion Comedy and Arts Festival for having us.

Our show was produced in person and on tape by the great Jennifer Marmer.

We're on Instagram at Instagram.com/slash judgejohnhodgman.

We've got photos and evidence from the show posted there and on the Judge John Hodgman page at maximumfun.org.

We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

MaximumFun.org.

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