Live from the London Podcast Festival 2017

Welcome to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week's episode was recorded live at the London Podcast Festival.

It's a great show.

I can't wait for you to hear.

But first, here's a quick message from Judge Hodgman.

Hey, it's me, Judge John Hodgman.

Every now and then, we have a contest.

I will call out for some information that I don't have at my fingertips, and you might provide it.

And the first person who provides the information I'm looking for, I send some piece of ephemera from my office, which let me tell you is encrusted with interesting ephemera.

I'm looking right now at a model of a gorilla holding a samurai sword.

I'm not going to give you that.

That's one of my prized possessions, but I got, maybe I'll give it to you.

Maybe I'll give that to you.

In any case, last time, I asked for evidence of a certain moment in the miniseries I Claudius from the 1970s, which established that the husbands and wives in iClaudius slept in separate rooms.

Chris Hind

was the first person to send me the evidence that I was looking for.

It is a piece of dialogue between the murderous Livia and her servant Praxis.

And we are going to post some of that dialogue on our Instagram page.

Judge John Hodgman is our Instagram page.

And I will send something to Chris from my office.

Thank you to everyone else who sent in the correct answer and even the slightly correct answer, which is where Messalina negotiates separate rooms with Claudius.

It's not what I was looking for exactly.

It was this moment between Livia and Praxis that I was thinking of.

And we'll have more contests in the future because I got a lot of stuff in my office that I got to get rid of, and I'd rather you have it.

So thanks very much again, Chris, for playing along.

Thank you to Chris for sending that I, Claudius dialogue.

Now, let's go to the stage at King's Place in London.

Tonight's case, crypto facto.

Caroline brings the case against her husband, Connor.

Connor has set up a cryptocurrency mining rig in their living room.

Caroline says it requires too much electricity and she'd like him to get rid of it.

Who's right, who's wrong, only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference.

This is an action for willful trademark infringement.

Defendants have willfully and admittedly traded upon the goodwill and notoriety of Judge John Hodgman, one of the most famous entertainers and brand names in the world.

In interviews with the press, defendants brazenly admit they adopted the marks, Judge John Hodge money, this is the sound of a cryptocurrency, and shut your coin hole.

to directly associate their newly minted currency with Mr.

Hodgman.

Defendants have publicly stated that A, they, quote, chose to represent Judge John Hodgman because he is and has always been a trendsetter, and B, that they would, quote, love it if Judge John Hodgman name-checked Hodgecoin.

We don't want to pay him off to name-check us, but it would be sick if he did so.

End quote.

Caroline and Connor, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever?

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he uses cryptocurrency to buy his weekly groceries on the dark web?

I do.

I do.

Very well.

Judge Hodgman?

Maybe I can get those Mr.

Trotter's Great British Pork Crackers

on the Dark Web.

I hadn't thought about that.

Caroline?

Popping poppy seeds?

No.

Caroline and Connery may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours.

Favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom.

Caroline, why don't you go go first?

I don't really know, but is it

maybe something related to Dogecoin?

Something related to Dogecoin.

I don't know what that is.

Which makes it a good guess.

Put it in the guess book, Bayless Jesse.

Now, Connor, it's your turn to guess.

I bet you know.

I wish I did, but it sounds like something.

I'm so glad you don't.

Sounds like some sort of Bitcoin hearing, maybe like a Silk Road thing or something or other.

Some kind of Silk Road thing.

All guesses are wrong.

That was a good guess though.

It was

some kind of Bitcoin thing.

Some sort of reference to Bitcoin.

You're like, I don't know.

It seemed like it had to do with what this case is about, kind of.

I don't know.

It's true.

And Connor, as someone who not only is interested in cryptocurrency, but currently mining for it all day and night long on a computer rig at your house.

It's very passive.

I would think it's very passive, I know.

And I encourage you to be aggressive, though, today.

Okay.

I would think that you might have guessed this one.

Of course, I was quoting from the 2014 trademark infringement lawsuit brought against a certain

alternative cryptocurrency by the entertainer Kanye West,

who was angry because some kids created a new cryptocurrency called Coin Ye West.

Oh, nice.

Nice.

Kanye, shut them down.

So now we're going to hear this case.

Caroline, you bring this case against Connor.

The problem is he's got a computer that's mining for what kind of, what is the, what's the cryptocurrency you're mining for, Connor?

It's Ethereum.

Ethereum?

Ethereum, yeah.

Well, that sounds very elven indeed.

You can call it Ether or ETH.

You call it Ether or ETH?

Yeah, it's just short and form.

Sure, why don't you just name it something short to begin with?

You're making it up.

Yeah.

ETH is the coin name.

ETH.

All right.

So, all right, Caroline, Connor is mining for ETH

all night long

in your living room while you're trying to sleep.

It's disgusting.

You want him to stop.

Do I understand all of that correctly?

More or less.

Okay.

You may elaborate now.

Yeah, we just, we have this mining rig hooked up in our living room.

It takes up quite a bit of space.

It's very hot as well.

If you go and you put your hand next to it, you can feel heat radiating off of it.

Yeah, because it's a computer.

Yeah.

But it's hotter than just a regular computer.

For people who don't know or people like me who barely understand what you're talking about,

Connor, ETH is a cryptocurrency like Bitcoin.

There is a system of artificial scarcity, whereas to generate the currency, you have to quote unquote mine for it, which does not mean that you're actually digging into the floor of your living room, but you have a computer doing some kind of, well, why don't you describe it, some kind of process, right?

Tell me what it is.

Yeah, I mean, you're essentially computing arbitrary numbers in order to find one that matches a pattern to prove that you have enough computing power

to essentially

deserve ETH.

No, well, it's

you're kind of collaborating with a bigger pool of miners that are trying to determine

this number.

Sing a Billy Bragg song now.

Does Billy Bragg have a lot of songs about Bitcoin?

But this mining is actually what proves out all the transactions before it.

Okay.

But what you're doing essentially is attempting to generate wealth unto yourself.

Yes, but also to drive the technology.

as well.

Because you have to have miners for it to even work.

What is your primary motivation?

To get fake money or to pretend that fake money is feasible somehow?

So it's both, I guess.

Okay.

For now, until it becomes real money.

Okay.

And how long have you been into ETH?

You know, over a year now, but we've only started.

Do you call yourself an ETH head?

No.

I wasn't really into Bitcoin, so I haven't really been into cryptocurrency that.

Do you feel that you missed your chance on Bitcoin and now ETH is the new drug that's going to make you a fortune?

I feel like everybody feels like they missed out on Bitcoin, but.

I don't.

Oh.

I probably did.

Many of you don't feel that way.

Frankly, I'm still super into poppies.

Oh, okay.

You know what?

I'm investing

tulips.

Thank you.

Nice handoff there.

Thank you very much, Jesse.

When did you install the rig?

I think it was late June.

And this, you did not install it here in the United Kingdom.

You are not from this land.

That's correct.

Where are you from?

We're from Oakland, California.

Oakland, California.

And you are visiting here on vacation.

Yes.

Yes.

Well, we're visiting my parents who live here.

Oh, how nice.

And they're here now, too.

Would you like me to acknowledge them?

Well, I think I just acknowledge them.

Don't have time for sentiment in the court.

Where are you, mom and dad?

Oh, too bad they left.

They're like, this is weird.

Our son-in-law is strange.

We're embarrassed.

They know that already.

I'm sure they do.

Now, is your rig going right now?

Is it chugging away?

Hi-ho, hi-ho.

It's off to work we go down there in the mines?

I hope so.

I haven't checked in the last hour or so.

Don't you have some kind of webcam looking at it?

Well, no, there's like a web dashboard that you can

see.

Why don't you check on that for a minute while we take a look at your thing?

You have to sent me some evidence.

Let's see the first slide and get a sense of what we're dealing with here.

I don't have service.

You don't have.

What's that?

I don't have any service.

You didn't use my phone.

Okay.

I don't want to do that.

All right, so this is your home in Oakland, California.

Boy, oh boy, you've got a lot of square footage there in Oakland.

How about that, London?

Quick question.

If you were to open the blinds, what would you see out there?

Would it be a dark gray air shaft two inches, another wall two inches away from your window?

Or is that just Airbnbs in London?

It's more like

four, maybe six feet to the next wall.

Oh, okay.

Fair enough.

That's why they call Oakland the London Middle Bay Area.

So I'm looking at you, first of all, you've got a big screen.

That's not part of the rig.

I'm presuming that the rig is this matrix-themed

borg underneath the screen in the bottom center of the right.

To be fair, his giant screen just has a bunch of text across it, like it was in the movie The Net.

Enhanced, enhanced.

Well if you were to enhance the right side you would see my public address there which you could you could send me money if you wanted to but

no thank you.

That's actually the

that's the dashboard.

That's the minor dashboard there on the right.

I immediately thought you meant a public address system like on the top of the Blues Brothers car

so let the record show that there is a green glowing thing on the floor with wires coming out of it that I imagine makes a constant pulsing sound that is terrifying.

It's sort of a

move in thread.

It's actually quieter than my computer next to it that you can barely see there.

I don't care.

Let's move on to the next slide.

Okay, here we are.

Another picture of it.

Now we see up close, it truly looks like something out of Fritz Lang's Metropolis.

And you also have a tourist poster for Coastal California.

Are you guys getting money from the California Coastal Board?

I wish.

Does that normally sit there?

It does.

Why does it not hang on a wall?

Because it is Connor's barricade or form of protection from preventing our small dog from going to hide under or behind it.

Oh, so you have a small dog?

We do.

What is your dog's name?

Locutis of Borg?

I have no

clue what's going on.

He just said weird sounds and everyone laughed.

Welcome to Nerd Comedy.

What is your dog's name?

Your actual dog's name?

Cosmo.

Cosmo.

And what kind of dog is Cosmo?

We think he's a dachshund terrier, some sort of mutt.

Adorable.

Oh, that's great.

And your concern right now is that while you're here in England, Cosmo could have nudged that picture of coastal California out of the way, gotten underneath there, and been assimilated or electrocuted.

Yeah.

He's thankfully not staying alone home right now.

He's staying elsewhere, But he has gone under it and behind it before.

And what is your concern?

Well, it's just, it's all this electric stuff.

It's hot.

It just, it doesn't seem like a good idea for a live being to be hiding underneath it.

Would you rather he be buying his magic mushrooms on the street?

He lets me do that for him.

Next slide, please.

More pictures of this computer.

I think you may have overestimated my interest in the different angles.

But if you have submitted this evidence, Connor, what am I supposed to be seeing here?

How is this supposed to be influencing my thinking?

It's just to show the different angles that it's cool.

It's a cool thing.

Those are actually graphics cards there, so it's kind of like six computers.

You're pretty proud of this thing, aren't you?

Especially for something that appears to have been made from an IKEA kitchen shelf.

It is a bit of a makeshift case.

A makeshift case?

Yeah, you could have done a little bit better.

But it's the best for airflow, so that's otherwise we just have to.

Well, you know, I was going to say good for airflow.

At least it's not in your living room, right?

If only, if only.

Next slide.

Are there more?

All right.

Another picture of wires and knobs.

Anything here I should be particularly impressed by, Connor?

Looks like you got a fan in there.

Oh, it looks like you got a couple of MSI things.

They're a pretty good concern.

Nice pick.

I like that.

Now, Connor, I'm a real computer expert.

Down at the bottom, is that a Sound Blaster 16?

I have no idea.

What am I seeing here, Connor?

Describe for the listening audience.

It's just the motherboard, but the interesting piece here is that there's actually all the six graphics cards aren't in their normal kind of PCIe express slots.

I knew there was something about it.

I'm thinking there is something.

I suck at it.

I was fired right on the tip of my tongue.

Yeah, what is it about those PCIe Express slots, I said to myself.

So

what have you accomplished here that I don't understand?

It's just the standard way to kind of arrange the graphics cards away from the motherboard.

Okay.

Next slide.

Oh.

This is Cosmo after he died.

Or maybe is just sleeping with his beautiful purple sloth loving.

Yep.

What is the name of that stuffed animal sloth?

Sloth.

Yeah.

Cool.

This is the dog that you wish to survive in this experiment.

Yes.

Connor, how do you respond to this accusation that this might be dangerous for Cosmo?

Well, for one, most of the electrical components are off the ground to where he isn't going to reach them unless there's food or something in there.

For some reason, for him to actually get up into it, then he's.

But he has gone underneath there and behind there before, right?

He's a curious person.

Yeah, which I don't like that.

I don't like that for sure.

So any way to block that off

would be good.

Did you consider

something other than a piece of framed art?

It was just what I had lying around at the time.

Yeah, it seems like all of that is from what you had lying around at the time.

It's true.

Your Honor, there is one other thing of protection.

Yes.

My foam roller is also under his desk, and I am not allowed to use it anymore because it is the barricade to protect the dog from going under it.

So a foam roller is something you would use in physical therapy or Pilates or whatever.

It's a big long piece of roll, you know, a cylinder of styrofoam that you painfully roll your legs on.

Yes, that's right.

You scream.

Yep.

That's accurate.

You've been saved from having to use it anymore because your palm is not using it as part of it.

But then I have back pain instead.

She has two of them, to be fair.

Yeah.

If she has two, why don't you just take one?

I am just taking one.

Yeah, no, that's what I'm making fun of your position.

Oh, okay.

It's kind of like.

Just because she has two things doesn't mean, uh, I can steal one.

I figured that one had become mine.

So you're splitting the assets.

To be fair, Judge, it is a joint property state.

All right, fair enough.

He's right.

So, oh, what do you know about the law?

She knows more.

What is your, are you an attorney?

I am.

Oh.

Are you more concerned, Caroline, with the safety of Cosmo or the look of having a piece of weird Star Wars garbage in the corner of your living room or the heat or the fact that

the husband, how long have you guys been married?

A year and a half.

A year and a half, that it turns out your husband has some weird hobbies and depraved dreams.

I mean, we've been together a lot longer than a year and a half, so I've known about all the depraved dreams and whatnot for a while.

What other schemes has he hatched in past?

I don't know about schemes, but I'd say he's an impulsive hobbyist where he'll get really excited about something and go all in.

These things would include drumming, airsoft rifling,

DJing.

I did not go all in on that one.

Okay, but you did buy some weird equipment that you use like once you're just a little green.

Yeah, just a little thing.

Why is it that all of your hobbies involve expensive equipment, loud noises, and potential for injury?

Yeah.

Some of the best ones.

He buys these things, and some of them cost quite a bit of money, and he'll get really excited about it for a short period of time.

And then he'll be like, oh, no, I'm not really into it anymore.

And then instead of selling off the equipment, it just...

piles up in our apartment.

And so this has happened over and over again, and that's kind of how I feel this might turn out to be.

This equipment was really expensive.

How much money did he spend on it, if you don't mind, U.S.

dollars?

I believe the last I heard was $3,600.

$3,600.

Did you hear those low whistles?

Yeah.

Plus $14.99 for that shelf.

But he did save a little money there by not assembling it.

Yeah, true.

Yeah, those low whistles are the international symbol of what the hell, man.

And then what about the other stuff?

The airsoft rifling, the drum kit.

Like, do you have a drum kit collecting dust in your house?

We do.

Well, it's in the attic.

It's not.

No, it's not.

It's in the closet.

You can't reach anything in the closet because it's there.

I put like half of it in the attic.

And then the things that wouldn't go up the door.

It's a big part of it, though.

But you are acknowledging that you put it in a place as if to say, I will never touch this again.

I want to touch it again, but it's

as soon as I get my ether coins together, I'm totally going to take those drum lessons.

I was taking drum lessons for a while.

He was.

The drumming, that was more of a legitimate hobby, but we still have a big drum set.

But you're basically saying that this problem is going to solve itself because eventually this rig is going to burn out, and he's going to get bored with it, and he's going to be on to the next thing, which is like building a Zeppelin in the kitchen or whatever.

He has talked about other schemes,

but the thing I'm worried about is that he's either just going to let it run, even though he's not as excited about it anymore, and we're just going to have this somewhat dangerous, big, hot thing running, and we're not going to make any money off of it.

It's supposed to take a long time to even earn back some of the money that it costs.

All right.

So we know that we have an investment of $3,600 actual currency dollars.

Yes.

How many

ether shillings have you gotten so far?

I've gotten maybe a little over three, three or four, but it's only been three months.

Okay.

And

in the current exchange, what are those three or four

Ether tokens worth?

I believe last time I checked, the exchange was $260.

Don't make me do math.

Just give me the total.

I don't.

Is that the total?

I've done this morning how much.

Each one is $260.

Yeah.

I might have a reference.

Yeah,

thanks for coming prepared.

Oh, that's my ticket.

Thanks for buying a ticket.

I now take back yelling at you about being prepared.

Oh, he has a whole thing.

He has a whole thing.

Oh, boy.

Are you telling me that Connor has a whole thing?

Because I knew that 10 minutes ago.

So it's about...

What is the value of your portfolio, Connor?

Let's see.

No, not.

Let's see.

Give this to me.

It's going to be a little good.

You come to my courtroom.

You have a computer running day and night for one purpose.

One purpose only.

To mine Ethereum.

That's the whole goal.

You spend a whole bunch of money on it.

The whole goal is to make money.

Fake money, but make it.

You're gonna fake it until you make it.

But the value is always.

You don't even know the value of your portfolio.

Well, the value of Ethereum is always changing, so it's not super straightforward.

And the last time you checked.

I'm not constantly checking.

I've never been more astonished and sickened in my life.

Do you see what I live with?

Well, when you're investing in a company, you don't check up on it every day.

Yes, you do!

Or at least that's what I've noticed some of the other dads doing.

Hash rate, 150, currently produces one, three-quarter ETH per month, $200 a month at $260, around $300 a month earlier this month when they said.

What'd you tell me?

Connor, you told me I'm not sure.

One and a quarter.

Oh, well, Jesse, it's one and a quarter ETH per month when overclocking.

But that presses a lot more heat.

You've got to press that turbo button, baby.

That's essentially what it is.

What would you, if you just, off the top of your head, would you estimate the value of your portfolio?

If I were you, I would just lie and say $3,700.

It's probably like $1,000 to $1,500 or something.

You said this morning that it was that, but then it went down to 700 because, and I quote, because of China.

All right.

Something did happen recently in China.

When do you anticipate

paying off on your investment, breaking even on this thing?

Well, I guess if it was to maintain its current value, Ethereum, then it would be, I guess, around a year.

And so are you asking me, if I were to rule in your favor, to let you

get to 3,600 and then pull the plug?

I guess you could pull the plug.

Are you talking about selling the Ethereum at that point or just selling the mining rig?

Stopping all of this.

Because I can just keep the Ethereum and it could go up in value.

How many Ethereum do you think you could get for the drum kit?

Ooh, that's a good question.

Two or so, maybe?

Two or three.

What would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor?

Either to stop right away and sell all the equipment back, because you could probably make most of that back,

or else make a certain amount to play the experiment through a little more, not a year, and then see how it goes and then sell it.

But the big thing is to actually sell the equipment when this is done so that we can get some of that money back and not have this mining rig taking up more space in our place.

Let me ask you, the thing is ugly.

It's super ugly.

It fits the decor of our apartment, of our house, though.

If you were to see the rest of the.

Can I see slide one again, please?

I mean, my computer is right there.

It's not the most attractive thing either.

Yeah, but we have this nice

one.

You can't see it as well.

It does fit the decor of

your apartment.

You've got Star Wars settings.

The big projector isn't always down.

I'd be inclined to characterize their interior design scheme as blinking miscellany.

I think it does match your decor very well.

Thank you.

Your decor is terrible.

I don't know.

I think that those Ethernet cables really complement the fireplace.

Sure.

Sure.

Well, look, if you're going for something retro like 1991 Bachelor Pad,

the only thing missing is a samurai sword

and a Duran-Duran poster.

It's important.

It's a little updating.

Look, Look, I've met both property brothers.

I know what I'm talking about.

This might be the trend in San Francisco right now.

Interior decor theme as LAN party.

Sure.

Caroline, it doesn't look good.

It's hot, but it's what it is.

It's just as hot like a computer.

It's not going to set anything on fire.

Well, it's not going to kill your dog.

Tell me what really bothers you about this.

Well, it has a, didn't it like blow a fuse or something too while we were away?

I don't care about the business.

Anyway, the other, one other piece I haven't mentioned yet is that the utilities bill, we pay a flat utility fee to our landlord, so it's good for us, but she will probably see her electricity bill spike a lot.

And I'm a little bit worried since she's also an attorney that she will think that we are growing some sort of

a lot of pot.

We're doing something else.

How do I, some sort of, how do I put this?

A metric ton of marijuana

Yeah, and you know the Bay Area it's difficult to find a really nice place and I don't want to get thrown out of there because we're I kind of feel like that argument might be a little specious because in Oakland I think there's at this point like

city pot farms that just distribute pot on the corner.

Yeah.

There's not enough Ethereum, frankly.

Well, it's more, I guess it's also more just about the utilities bill.

You know, there's, we do the flat rate because there's some sort of exchange of trust there.

And then if it spikes and we're seen as taking advantage of it, that could ruin that relationship.

Besides which, it is an ethical lapse.

Yep.

It's an ethical crime, Connor.

Because you're taking advantage.

You're taking advantage of this fixed electric bill and you're using a lot of electricity to make yourself some fake money.

But there's no stipulation in the lease.

So it's not.

I mean, maybe it's ethical, but it's also.

Yeah, I didn't say it was legal.

I said it was ethical.

See, you're being a jerk.

Maybe.

I don't know.

I don't know if I agree with that.

Caroline,

it's hot.

It's a dog killer.

It's ugly.

Your landlord, you're going to become homeless soon.

Probably.

All of this is

window dressing, and by window dressing, I mean a dusty Venetian blind that's closed all the time, according to...

As per your apartment.

I want to go to the crux of this.

How does it make you feel when Connor comes home and says, guess what?

I've got a new idea.

I mean, part of it is I'm excited that he gets excited about stuff, but it's frustrating when it's something that costs a lot of money.

And when I know he's probably going to get sick of it before too long.

If you're an attorney, you must be rich.

Living in the Bay Area.

So it's frustrating when he comes home.

And did you consult with Caroline before you spent the money on the rig or did you just like, honey, I'm home?

I definitely did.

And she actually

helped buy one-third of the graphics cards.

I only did it because you needed somebody to

distribute the Amazon.

It's only two per customer.

Just because your wife is an enabler is not a defense.

I'm just saying, she went along with it.

I outlaid my very strong objections to doing it.

And I also didn't know it was going to cost quite that much or take that long to earn the money back.

So, if I rule in your favor,

pull the plug now or when?

Well, we're in a couple of months.

The big thing is just selling the equipment back.

Give me a day and date.

I mean,

he could pull the plug now remotely from London.

That's true.

I guess I would give him maybe three months, see if maybe things with China change.

Oh, I don't think that's going to happen.

I'm just being nice.

International geopolitics is very stable right now.

Smooth sailing, I call it.

Connor, if I were to rule in Caroline's favor, is three months enough?

Too much?

Not enough.

I guess it's unclear.

I guess it's probably not enough.

Not enough.

Let it go until the graphics cards depreciate in value.

To the point where you're going to sell.

Let it go until the graphic cards burn.

Well, that does happen, but luckily, you know, they burn out eventually.

How can we have no Ethereum and we can't sell the equipment?

Well, you'll have the Ethereum, like, you keep the Ethereum that you mine out of that thing, right?

Yeah.

All right.

All two of them.

I think I've heard everything I need to.

Two, and how many do you have again?

It's more like three to four, somewhere between there.

And you know that this court does accept fake brushes.

What's your Ethereum address?

What's my what?

What's your Ethereum address?

I'm scandalized now for some reason.

Let me go into my chambers and I'll look it up for you.

And I'll also think about my decision.

I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Connor, is your end game to sell these Ethereums, or is it to do something creepy with them?

It ultimately would be to sell them, but probably not in the foreseeable future.

So you'd focus for now on creepy stuff, then later on selling them?

Right, right.

And the main goal here is just to subvert the government as much as you can in the short term, and then in the long term, cash in?

Right.

Well, it's more just to support a technology, which I think, you know, the blockchain and cryptocurrency in in general that is going to be.

Could really have a lot of great potential to subvert the government.

Yeah.

Maybe that's yeah, maybe that's what needs to happen.

I don't know.

I mean, I live like 500 miles away, and I'd prefer if the government stayed not subverted.

Oh, okay.

Like fully functional and all.

Well, just maybe in terms of, you know, how money is handled.

Maybe Fiat isn't the, well, I don't know.

Caroline, how are you feeling about your chances here?

I'm feeling pretty good.

I guess there's always chance for a surprise, but it seemed like a lot of fun was made of Connor.

And

so even if I happen to not win, I'm still pretty happy about that.

Connor, how are you feeling?

Well, I'd just like to say, you you know, I'm sure a lot of those early Bitcoin miners and investors also got made fun of quite a bit.

And deservedly.

They're still millionaires.

And the fun hasn't stopped either.

But they were investors.

They didn't mine it themselves in their living room.

Can I ask the two of you a question incidental to this?

Would you be willing, my mother is a furniture dealer in San Francisco.

Would you be willing to accept a 10% discount in her store, Emeritus, inside the larger store, Stuff

on Valencia Street in San Francisco

so that you can buy some actual furniture for your house?

Because you're both white-collar professionals and grown adults and you appear to be

the rest of the house looks very nice, I think.

It's just this one corner that's kind of the tech.

Gatto.

I think my parents would agree with you, though, on the decor of that room.

We'll see what Judge Sean Hodgman has to say about all this.

Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

Ladies and gentlemen, we live in uncertain times.

Structures that we thought were inviolable are collapsing around us.

Futures that we thought were secured have been shown to be insecure.

Currency is perhaps the next norm to be violated.

And we must be prepared.

Now, you all know me,

I've always

put my stock in a future currency, which is dollars that are printed on beef jerky.

They last a long time.

And at need, you can eat them until your gums hurt.

I don't understand

what you are doing

at all.

It's fine.

And I tried to read up on it.

But I appreciate that you are doing it.

I hope you are not amassing Ethereum in order to pay contract killers.

Which is one of the things that Bitcoin was being used for and other dark web shenanigans.

You seem too nice.

A very small portion of Bitcoin,

but enough.

It gets a bad rep, but it's not the technology's fault.

And I also appreciate that you are engaged in a hobby that has all of these multiple variables.

Something happening in China can affect the value of your portfolio.

You've got to keep these cards up and running.

How much Ethereum can you mine to make the initial investment of the $3,600 worth it before the whole rig depreciates that you can't get your money back?

And meanwhile, you're goosing your profit margin by taking advantage of your landlady.

I love all this.

So, you see, like, you know what, I love this better.

I mean, what I would have said if I didn't know better to Caroline was, you know, at least he's not a drummer.

Then I learned you are a drummer.

You're a drummer and an airsoft rifle enthusiast.

And what was the other thing?

You smashed bottles or something for fun?

What was it?

I don't know.

DJ.

Oh, yeah, DJ.

That's right.

That's right.

A drummer who's also a DJ.

Could get more SCSI.

No offense, drummers and DJs.

I guess.

I guess, no, I mean offense.

Sorry.

And

when I asked you the value of your portfolio, you went into your pocket to a piece of paper that has no words written on it

that are understandable to anyone.

And

that really struck me because this is the thing.

It's like,

if this is your real hobby, then I would hope you would be the kind of weird husband who knew the value of his ETHs every second of the day.

If you had come to me with that, I'd have been like, Caroline, I know you married a weirdo.

And I'm sorry for that.

But this guy's got his eyes on the prize.

When everything falls apart and there are no laws anymore for you to enforce with your lawyering,

this guy's going to have a pocket full of ETHs and an airsoft rifle and he's going to keep you safe.

But now I don't know how serious you are.

And meanwhile, you've got a hot piece of equipment running 24 hours a day, threatening to electrocute your dog, burn down a house that you do not own, and what's worse, you have a desk that has a glass top.

It's a great, it's a great idea.

All of these things must change.

Oh, no.

I think Caroline is being very generous to allow you three months to get your actual world money back out of this thing.

But I don't think it's enough.

I want this to go all the way.

I want you to get $3,600 and go.

I want you to make a big profit that is imaginary, but big.

I think that you running an Ethereum mining operation in your own house is frankly very sexy.

Thank you.

I think, though, you must

do a couple of things in order to make it acceptable to the woman who I think means more to you than imaginary money.

I hope.

One, you got to make it look better.

Two, you got to invest some more money into a better case or something.

You got to stop stealing foam rollers from your wife.

to keep your dog away from it.

That's just throwing good foam after bad.

Or I don't know what that means.

And you need to go all in on this now.

I don't want this to just be another hobby that you're going to throw away in two seconds.

This is your commitment.

I want you to know what the value of your portfolio is.

I want you to send me an email once a month to let me know

at hodgman at maximumfund.org so that we can update the podcast listening audience as to the value of your portfolio.

I need some Jim Kramer-style analysis of where things are going in the Ethereum market.

I want you to write a financial newsletter that you send to me once a month.

I want you to throw those drums in the garbage

or donate them to a family that you want to torture.

I want you to get rid of all the DJ equipment and all the airsoft rifles and all the detritus and all the abandoned hobbies because this is the one now.

And I want you to run that thing until those cards burn up and your house burns down.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules.

That is all.

Ladies and gentlemen, Caroline and Connor.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfund.org slash join.

And you can join them by going going to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Quince.

Jesse, the reviews are in.

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Judge Hodgman, it feels like music time to me.

I would love to hear, you know, we always have such wonderful musical guests at these live shows, and tonight we have a brand new one.

She has three albums, the most recent of which was called The Moths Are Real.

It was produced by Jarvis Cocker.

Those are substantially harp-based albums.

Because she's a classically trained harpist.

Exactly.

She now has a harpless band called Bas Yan,

which has no harp.

Their first album called Yes I Yan is coming out on Lost Map Records at the end of the year.

Please welcome to the stage our musical guest for this evening, Serafina Steer.

Serafina Steer, ladies and gentlemen.

Good evening, good afternoon, everybody.

Hours,

what are the hours

spent thinking like this?

Dance today

without motion,

like an ocean

without a wave.

I'm gonna go outside now and forage for food.

I hope it's not too late to make,

make good.

I am animal, only animal

Say hello, say hello, say hello

Got to love, got to love,

got to learn

Say hello, say hello

Wonder,

I wonder why

we sometimes come

together.

We often

come undone.

You win, you lose

some.

Then you've got to let it go with your head held high.

Oh, but I lay there on the sofa asking,

So don't lie there

No, don't lie there, no, don't lie there

I am animal only animal

Say hello, say hello, say hello

Got to love, got to love

Say hello,

say hello.

Who you think I'm up to?

Do my old tricks.

Maybe it is sort of a game.

But it's a

weird sort of game.

It's all or nothing,

there's nothing remains.

I am animal

only animal

Only animal

Say hello, say hello, say hello

Say hello.

Um,

the last song I played was called I Am Animal, and this song is called Profile Picture.

I've

changed my profile picture.

24 likes.

25.

My hair looks fine, but nobody cares.

Nobody cares.

Seraphina Steer,

what's on your mind?

Why so third person?

I changed my profile picture.

Twenty-four likes,

twenty-five.

My hair looks fine

But nobody cares

Nobody cares

Concentrate

Why can't you concentrate

Concentrate

Why can't you concentrate

Think of your career

All the work you've put in

People who don't know you don't owe you a second look

Concentrate

Why can't you concentrate

Concentrate

Why can't you concentrate

I need a friend beside me

I mean right beside me

I know you're with me

I know you're with me but I

I need a friend beside me now

I mean right beside me

I know you're with me

I know you're with me but I can't concentrate

concentrate

26 likes

I've changed my profile picture 27

I know you know that

twenty eight

I've changed my profile picture I know you know that

concentrate

I'm Emily Fleming.

I'm Jordan Morris.

And I'm Matt Lieb.

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Well, Judge Hodgman, we've been here for a few days from America, and we've

meted out a fair amount of justice.

But from what I have heard...

It was a fair meeting.

Yeah.

From what I have heard, there remains injustice in this great nation.

What?

Still?

We've only got a few minutes left in the show, but it seems to me like we could really wrap up this whole injustice thing in the UK for once and for all.

All right.

Let's bang out some law.

Why don't we start by putting 10 minutes on the clock and seeing if we can solve three disputes in 10 minutes?

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the stage Anna and Nick.

Anna and Nick.

Come, come, sit down.

We need to settle this right away.

You're automatically sworn in.

Anna, Nick, who brings the case against whom?

I bring the case against Nick.

Anna, make your accusation.

So I read the book Into Thin Air, which is about people dying on a climbing expedition up Mount Everest.

Sure.

And when I read it, I had this insight of like, oh my god, Nick definitely wants to do this.

And I asked him to promise me not to do it, because in the book and in life, lots of people die doing this.

And he said no.

So I would like you to make him promise me never to do this.

Nick, did you just get the idea to refuse to promise to climb Mount Everest because you knew it would make your wife upset?

No, no.

Are you going to climb Mount Everest?

Highly unlikely.

Have you ever?

Hold on, that wasn't a no.

Have you ever climbed?

Like, I can tell you right now, look at my eyes, I'm not going to climb Mount Everest.

I just want to assess the risk of your accidentally climbing Mount Everest.

You might accidentally fall up it one day.

Have you climbed anything before?

I have.

What's the tallest thing you climbed?

Mount Whitney.

How tall is that one?

It's 14,000 plus.

It's the highest mountain in the lower 48 of the United States.

Highest in the lowest 48.

A great motto.

And is a lifelong dream of yours to climb Mount Everest?

Not really.

So

why don't you just say, I promise not to climb Mount Everest and make Anna happy, and then maybe one day when she goes on vacation with her sister or whatever, you just do it anyway.

Guess what I did, honey?

Guess where I'm calling from.

I promised to her that I would not do it without her permission.

But he clearly has a plan to climb Mount Everest after I die.

Like, he keeps bringing it up that he could do it with our daughter as if that would make me feel better.

That's right.

It would be so much fun if you were left a widow and

a childless mourner.

Is your daughter a Sherpa at all?

Definitely not.

Why would you want to decline Mount Everest?

I do not say because it's there.

No.

Because let me tell you something.

It's been done.

A lot of people have died.

It's a huge amount, it's a huge expense of money.

Yes.

It's nothing other than dumb ego.

And you're taking advantage of uh a lot of native workers who may not feel so great about helping you up the mountain oh i hear it's cold there it's cold and

you just an aholic thing to do you understand that don't you yeah no no i i know that i i just feel like i want to preserve my option and and and i i've given her i've given her the ability to veto like i know that we're married but i want a hall pass for this one thing

Yeah, getting married means you don't have options anymore.

You understand, though, that you gave him this whole idea.

He probably never would have thought of it until you read it.

No, no, no.

He read the book before I did and kept telling me how great it was.

And then when I started to read the book, I was like, oh, I see exactly where this came from.

All right.

I think that he's just driving you a little crazy on purpose.

I think it's highly unlikely he's going to climb Mount Everest.

He's made the point that he will not do so without your permission.

You will never grant that permission.

I think the situation has been resolved.

Please welcome Simon and Helen.

By the way, so are you also Americans?

No.

Oh, thank God.

Simon and Helen?

Yep.

Hello.

I think I know which one is Simon and which one is Helen.

Who brings the case against whom?

I do, Johanna.

Simon, make your accusation.

I believe that tomato ketchup is a dip, and Helen will not agree with this.

People laughed when you said that.

I'm in Helen's favor.

Izzy and Dan, please.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

We do need to move on, but I just want to know the source of your madness, Simon.

My reasons are twofold.

You dip things in.

Exactly.

From time to time.

That's one of my main reasons.

Why does it make it a dip?

You dip things into it.

It's the act of dipping that is important.

It's also the same consistency as similar dips.

Sour cream, nacho cheese.

No.

It is not the same.

It's not the same consistency at all.

And nor would you ever pour sour cream onto a hamburger.

Judge Hodgman?

Yes.

Can I make my own accusation?

Please.

It's my opinion that Simon is a dip.

Oh.

Ouch.

That's cold as cool ranch dressing.

I understand where you're coming from, but I think you're just making trouble for no reason.

Obviously, ketchup has a long, long history as a condiment and a sauce.

It is inconsequential that you occasionally dip things into it.

It is used mostly for squirting on to other things.

And therefore I cannot find in your favor, though you are both very adorable.

Thank you.

Find in favor of Helen.

Izzy and Dan, please.

Izzy

and Dan.

Dan, whatever you do, take your time.

Okay.

We're a little bit under the gun.

Who brings this case against whom?

I do.

Izzy?

What is your relationship to this strange old man?

This is my dad.

He's your dad.

Yeah.

All right.

And what is your accusation, beef, dispute, concern, quarrel?

We had a dog.

We lived in South Africa.

We had a dog and we asked to leave him there.

And now he has a room.

Good stop.

A whole lot of narrative just came through.

You had a dog.

You lived where?

South Africa.

In South Africa.

Yeah.

Obviously, you don't live there anymore.

No.

You live here.

Yeah.

And you left your dog behind.

Yeah.

Monstrous thing to do, by the way.

Yep.

Because you know that dog's just going to try to find you.

He's round about Kenya at the moment.

What's the name of the dog?

Asterix.

Asterix.

Oh.

Asterix is now trudging through the Sahara Desert going,

Izzy, Izzy.

I wish there were some computer I could climb under to commit suicide.

But Asterix is in the past.

And now there's a rule, which has always been there, but I still don't agree with it, that we can't have a dog

that's small enough for him to feasibly kick over a rugby post.

You want to get a new dog.

Yeah.

The rule of the house, and of many houses,

is that the dog must be large enough that your father cannot kick it through a rugby goal.

Is that what it's called?

Feasibly over a rugby post.

A rugby post.

All right.

Why do you guys have these weird sports?

What's your problem with small dogs there, Dan?

I really hate small, yappy dogs.

Yes.

What kind of dog was Asterix?

He was a German shepherd.

Cross.

Well, you gave him the wrong name.

Yeah, fair point.

Asterix was a small, yappy goal.

Should have called him Obelix.

That was a debate we had, I think.

It was a debate you had.

Yeah.

In the car on the way home with the puppy.

What do we name it?

And what side were you on?

I was on Asterisk.

He wanted to call him Groot so that he could write on the collar, I am Groot.

I renounce my status as a dad.

You make you renounce your weird dads as a child.

Yeah.

This court has a lot of tolerance for weird dads and weird dad jokes.

That one one I cannot stand.

There's a really big problem with that.

In Afrikaans, which is what most of them speak, group means big.

And he has this problem of not shouting some stupid dog name across a park when to everyone else he'd be just shouting big.

Big!

Yeah.

Big!

But you understand, that's probably your dad's ideal dog name to begin with.

Big dog!

Come here, so I can't kick you over a thing.

In

my defense, because all this being said out loud, I'm a monster.

No dog would ever be kicked.

It's like a thought experiment.

I know that.

I understand.

No, I was on Instagram earlier, and there was a little dog that goes, yeah, I could kick that over a rubber post.

Yeah, theoretically.

He didn't say theoretically.

He said, I could kick that over a rubber post.

Dan, I attacked you for the whole thing about I am Grood, and you earned that one.

However, I have two small dogs.

They're about 15 or 20 pounds.

They're terrier chihuahua mixes.

And I have often confessed to my wife, much to her dismay, that I fantasize about kicking them like an American football.

And they wouldn't be hurt.

They would fly, and they would love it.

They would think it was amazing.

Like, super.

Well, if you throw them the right way, they spin like a corkscrew.

All right, Izzy, why do you want a small dog?

Well, first of all, we have cats, and they're small enough to cats.

How many?

Two.

Oh, boy.

He's a self-confessed cat person.

He could kick them over a rugby post.

So what's the problem with dogs?

What's the difference?

Here I have to stand up for a day.

There is a difference between cats and dogs.

No, our cat acts like a dog.

He chases frisbees.

Cats don't care if you live or die.

And they will only be around so far as they can get something out of you.

Whereas a dog, especially a small dog, not only wants to love you and be part of your hurt, but will yell about it all the time.

What kind of dog do you want?

I want a cockspaniel or something around that size because one of the problems we couldn't bring the dog back was there's not enough space in our house.

So why get a dog the same size because we couldn't bring the other one back?

That makes no sense.

It's the same size as the other dog.

A cocker spaniel, no good.

That's too small?

Yeah, apparently.

I don't think that those are yappy dogs.

They don't yap and they're not that small.

I hate to do any crux finding here, but I kind of feel like this is more about Asterix than it is about the size of the new dog.

Go on, Jesse.

Well, it seems like there was this foundational trauma that you abandoned your dog, a member of your family in a faraway nation,

and now you're trying to replace that family member,

and you're making up these weird rules about it.

Asterix,

first of all, did terrorize our cats, which was a bit of a problem.

I do like

stupid dogs, like a Labrador or a Golden Retriever that are nice and docile and friendly and don't terrorize my cats.

Yeah, my dogs would for real eat your cats.

And why don't

if your dad is open to getting a new dog, a Labrador, that is like default dog.

Because my mom doesn't want a Labrador.

She thinks they're cheap.

She's not here.

What do you want to name this new dog?

I have anything to do with gemstones, anything geeky, because we have this thing of geeky names throughout our animals.

Give me some samples.

Specificity is the soul of

dog names.

We have,

I don't know, I like Luna, and I like.

Like Luna Lovegood from that from the books.

Yeah

I like Coraline

is he I like Coraline from like the movie Coraline.

Yes, that's it starring John Hodgman.

That's the one.

Yeah

my very famous movie Coraline

There's a lot of anime ones because we have a cat named after him.

No, I already told you it's Coraline.

Yeah.

So

here's what I'm going to say.

Before you take on a new dog, have you had a small dog before?

No.

Okay, do you have a situation in this country as we do in at least New York City and other parts of the country where you can foster dogs that are waiting to be adopted?

Yeah, they're against that.

Well, too bad for them.

I want you to foster a small dog.

Okay.

And you can call that dog.

That dog will come with a name and you have to keep that name.

Yeah.

And I want that dog to be fostered in your home for a period of time so you both learn the reality of what having a small dog means.

Yeah.

And don't kick it.

And then if you end up loving that dog, you can adopt it and call it Coraline.

Or if you realize, yeah, a small dog has certain disadvantages,

and you're going to see how the cats are going to react to it.

You're going to see how you react being yelled at all the time by this dog.

And you decide to go with a slightly larger model,

then that will be the solution for you, and you will name that dog Coraline.

Yep.

Is that acceptable?

It doesn't matter to me if it is, but that's what I'm asking.

That's fine.

This is the sound of a gabble.

Izzy and Dan.

Thanks so much to the litigants for joining us on stage and sharing their cases with us.

Thanks also to the staff at the London Podcast Festival.

Serafina Steer is now playing with the band Boss Yan.

Their debut album is called Yes I Yan and comes out on Lost Map Records later this year.

They have an EP available at basyan.bandcamp.com.

For more of her music, visit serafinasteer.com.

This episode produced by Jennifer Marmer, she had help from Nick Liao.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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