A Podcast for the Problemless

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, we're in chambers clearing the docket.

And with me, as always,

the one, the only, the man, the myth, the legend, the Barobed One,

the hand of justice, Judge John Hodgman.

I'm not a myth, I'm a real person.

I really exist.

I don't know why people doubt me.

Show me the proof.

But what's exciting?

I am here here in Maine for my last sesh with our great guest engineer, Joel Mann.

Hi, Joel.

Hey, Judge.

We're really going to miss you.

I will miss you too, Joel.

I will miss your loquaciousness

and

your high, sing-song-y voice.

It's been fun.

Wow, good.

That's nice of you to say.

And we're here at WERU in Orland, Maine, 89.9 on your frequency modulation dial if you are in the Maine area or WERU.org if you are not.

It's a great radio station.

It's a community radio station.

This is where you're going to tune in to listen to Joe Bird and the Field Hippies or anything that the DJ wants to play.

And I urge you to support the station.

If you have a little extra radio money jingling and jangling around in your pocket, go to weru.org and maybe make a donation and hear what they're up to.

Also, we are joined by a very, very, very, and I'll say one more very special guest, my dear friend, whom I have not seen for weeks and weeks and weeks, Jonathan Colton.

Hello, Jonathan.

Hello, John.

Hi.

Now, if you don't know who Jonathan Colton is, then you know nothing of my work, and you're fired from listening to this podcast.

But no, wait, hang on.

I rehire you because it's a good podcast, and you need to know who Jonathan is.

He is a brilliant singer, songwriter, producer.

He's got a new album out called Solid State.

which is fantastic with an accompanying graphic novel that was written by the great Matt Fraction.

You know, we're both from New England, so I can't get too effusive here, but I would say he's one of my very, very

fondest acquaintances of many years.

My collaborator in many things, and

the proprietor of the Jonathan Colton Cruise, which is an annual good time, fun time cruise party that I have had the pleasure to have joined before and will again in the future.

Jonathan, quick question.

Are all those berths sold on that cruise or can people still

get a berth?

No, people can still get a berth.

Absolutely.

There's still plenty of room for people to be on.

It's a very big cruise ship.

I'm going to stow away in a salt pork barrel.

Is that okay?

That's if you want to end up in the brig.

Jonathan Colton, our listeners, if they don't know from his relationship with John Hodgman, also

the co-host of NPR's Ask Me Another.

He's here in Los Angeles to perform Ask Me Another live alongside Ophira Eisenberg.

And he has a brand new record album and graphic novel, both called Solid State.

Jonathan, thanks for joining us.

Thank you for having me.

Let's kick things off with a letter from Alexandre.

Alexandre?

I'm going to say Alexandre.

Alexandre.

Alexandre.

My wife, Catherine, watched some Mindy Project episodes without me.

This is a big problem.

It's not easy to find television shows we both enjoy watching.

The problem problem is compounded by the fact that she also told me that the show incorporates many references to well-known romantic comedies.

Since I don't know these romantic comedies, my enjoyment of the sitcom would increase if I had her watching it with me.

I later learned that she watched more episodes after I told her that I didn't think it was okay, and she also watched some of the new season of House of Cards, which we also watched together.

I would like you to make a general rule that any show that we watch together is off-limits for alone time watching.

Furthermore, since making her re-watch the episodes with me wouldn't be as fun as discovering them together, I would also like some punitive damages, perhaps in the form of live show reenactments.

All right, you guys, Jesse and Jonathan, I'm going to ask you to weigh in on your opinion on this one.

But before I do, I'm going to do what we call on fake radio tease.

I'm going to make a big announcement after I hear your opinions on this thorny subject.

So get ready.

Jonathan, what do you think?

Punitive damages warranted here?

I don't know if that is an appropriate punitive damage.

I don't think you can go all the way to live reenactments.

May I also say that perhaps one reason

she's choosing to watch the shows alone is because when she watches it with Alexandre,

there's a constant thing where he's pausing and saying, will you explain that reference to me?

Because I don't watch romantic comedies.

Will you explain that reference to me?

I do not watch romantic, how do you say, comedies?

Tell me about this.

What is it?

Music and lyrics?

Do I have mail?

Do you have mail?

Who is having mail?

You know what I'm imagining would be magical?

I'm imagining watching the show Mindy Project, which I have seen but do not watch regularly, with my friend and colleague Guy Branham, who is not only the host of our show Pop Rocket, but he is also a writer on the Mindy Project, who is also an expert on every romantic comedy ever.

I think that would really add a lot to the experience, or maybe our friend Linda Holmes from Pop Culture Happy Hour.

Yeah, get somebody to phone in and assist with the watching and the many, many questions.

Yeah, I think you should rule that Guy Branham has to watch it with Alexander.

That is definitely ruled.

So ordered.

Now, are you guys ready for my big announcement?

What's that?

This is the very last case of this type I will ever hear.

When I say case of this type, of course, I mean my wife/slash/husband watches television wrong.

Look, I understand understand that this is a problem.

I might take issue with Alexander's contention that it is a big problem, but it is certainly a problem that people present in various forms to me all the time at hodgman at maximumfund.org.

You should feel free to send in these disputes.

Just know I'm not going to read them anymore because there are just too many of them.

And they all take something of the same form.

And they're all complicated by a societal change that has happened.

I dare say, over the course of this podcast, as more and more people have shifted to second screen and streaming technology, television, if it ever really was a family gathered around a radio staring at stories together,

it no longer the communal experience that it might have been.

Watching television now is much more like reading a book.

something you do by yourself at your own pace.

You don't wait for the television to show itself to you.

You watch as much as you want, want, and then you hit click on your thing at 4.30 in the morning and try to fall asleep, but then get up at 6.30.

Do you just, I mean, it's just how people watch television now.

It's very rare that people sit down.

How often do you sit down and watch television with your beloved wife and my equally beloved old friend, Christine?

You mean in a scheduled way?

Like sit down and watch what is, I guess, on TV at that moment?

Well, no, or sit down and start a thing to watch together.

Yeah, we we try to.

I mean, I I feel Alexandre.

I've been on both sides of this.

I've I've watched things that I'm not supposed to watch by myself, and I've uh we've watched stuff together, and I've I've been burned by Christine watching stuff without me.

But, you know, that's c'est la vie, Alexandre.

I can't even imagine having this life that you people are describing.

Yeah.

As the parent of a six-year-old, a three-year-old, and a baby,

my wife and I have a chance to watch one television program each evening.

We do not leave the house in evening time.

So we have one and usually only a sitcom, 22 minutes worth of television watching.

And you were asleep in the last seven.

The frequency with which either of us ever watched television without the other is like so vanishingly slim, simply because

that is like

by the time it is 8:45,

we're so exhausted and we can barely make it through one thing.

We can't even read.

We would just fall asleep.

And we just want to watch one wet, hot American summer together.

Just one.

And like, maybe, maybe on a weekend, I might catch up on the Antiques Roadshow while doing my ironing.

But that is the most I could ever hope for.

It's very rock and roll.

By the way, I'm an elderly British housekeeper.

You just described a perfect afternoon to me.

And in a weird way, it conjured a very distinct Proustian sense memory that I had of many, many,

I guess probably Saturday afternoons in the 90s

getting ready to go out with my friend Jonathan Colton while Hercules the Legendary Journeys played in the background.

Because that was a time when TV was just on.

Yeah.

And, you know, you could program a tape.

Look, I don't want to get all old-timey Generation XY here.

But the experience, even not only are we exhausted and have less time as dudes with children of various ages, the three of us, than Alexandre and Catherine do,

but also, you know, it's just we experience television in different ways.

It's not often that you just leave it on or sit down after an evening and just flip through what's going on.

You're picking and choosing much more than ever before.

And I think that it's time, as Jonathan said, to admit that is the way life is, but say it in French.

C'est la vie.

That's just, you can't, at this point, you have to give up these disputes, you guys, because I'm not going to hear them anymore.

And as far as I'm concerned, here are the rules.

If you pick a show to watch together, you can pick one

show that is exclusive to you as a couple, and you have to watch it together.

You have to do it.

You get one.

You don't get five or six different shows that is part of your life together as a couple.

You pick one.

And the rest, it's catch-as-catch-can.

Now, if you're going through this show, like the Mindy Project, and someone says, I love the show, and I'm going to keep watching it even though you're not watching it because you're not fast enough and whatever, guess what?

You could say, okay, forget it.

We'll find another show.

If you pick a show to watch and the other person says, I'm not into this, guess what?

They're out.

It's fine.

It doesn't matter.

You watch the show.

You can't make someone watch a show that they're not into.

And also, if someone needs the subtitles on, put them on.

Don't worry about it.

And if someone is second screening while watching your shared show, fine.

It's all fine.

Some people have real problems, you guys.

Just

that's the sound of my gavel.

We have to be careful.

If we're asking for real problems on the Judge John Hodgman podcast, we're going to run dry real fast.

Yeah, well, I'm not saying that.

This is a podcast for the problem list.

I'm not saying that this problem is not a problem

and it's not worth hearing.

It's just not worth hearing every episode as I'm being asked to.

And I think the reason that people are having this issue over and over and over again is that they're just having difficulty adapting to the fact that people don't watch television together and maybe shouldn't.

Maybe that's not the best way to enjoy a television show.

But if you want to give it a try, go for it.

Pick a thing and do it.

That can be a fun thing to do as a couple.

Here's something from Robert.

My wife can't whistle.

However, she continues to walk around the house in public and in the car with me, making an awful squeaking sound.

Oh boy, she knows it drives me crazy, so she does it more.

Please insist she stop doing it or learn how to actually whistle.

Trust me, it's annoying.

Oh, Bailiff Jesse Thorne, you better be telling me that we have some audio evidence to listen to.

Robert has provided audio evidence.

Oh, fantastic.

Let's play the clip.

Okay, you need to whistle.

Okay, that's enough.

That's enough.

Okay, Kate's closed.

What is she even doing?

It sounds like she's only got one note.

What is that?

I can tell you what it is.

It's my new ringtone.

Has she just captured and weakened a parakeet?

It is very bird-like.

It's very natural,

biological, bird-like whistling.

Maybe she's one of these bird people.

Oh.

Yeah.

You know what I'm talking about with the elbows, the wings?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They're very similar to dinosaur people.

Uh-huh.

Just newer.

I can tell you one thing: it is.

It's whistling.

Robert's wrong.

That's definitely a whistle.

It's definitely air passing through some

crooked teeth of some kind.

Form a kind of, and a mouth shape to form a kind of

squeaky whistle.

You think it's a tongue whistle?

It sounds like it might be a tongue whistle, you know, through the teeth rather than a lip whistle.

It doesn't have the round tone of a lip whistle.

It's not that she can't whistle, she just can't whistle well.

It's a tuneless whistle, is what it is.

It's a nightmare whistle.

And I'll say this, because I know what a non-whistle sounds like.

Because there is one of my children who has never learned to whistle and for a long time presented this as a whistle.

Ooh,

ooh.

I know that trick.

That's not a whistle.

That's that one part of You Can Call Me Al by Paul Simon.

Now, we can't mouth sound any more of that, or else we're going to have to pay Paul Simon royalties.

Or Al.

Yeah.

Or Al.

What's weird is Al gets all the royalties on this song.

Guest Jonathan Colton, do you have an opinion on this case?

I don't know.

You know, my opinion is very colored by my own tendency to find a thing that annoys my wife and to do it on purpose.

I mean, like what?

It's one of the ways in which I show love is to find a thing that is annoying and do it.

Like what?

You know.

Like, what do you do?

Release albums.

Release albums.

It's a constant inhaling and exhaling.

You know, I'll tell you, I have a very,

to hear Christine tell it, I have a very loud and unnecessarily dramatic sneeze.

And when I sneeze, instead of saying gesunteit or bless you, I sneeze and she goes, Jesus Christ.

That's usually the response.

And it's, you know, I confess it bothered me a little bit at first, but now I sort of revel in it.

And I might make them more dramatic than necessary because I know it gets her goat.

You know, for all the years that I've known you, I don't think think I've ever heard you sneeze.

I mean, not such that I would notice and take the name of our Lord in vain.

Well, I try not to.

Right.

Well, you don't want to annoy me.

No, I don't want to annoy me.

I'm not married.

You're not my spouse.

But it's building up behind your sneeze, Dan.

That's right.

It's letting loose with unnecessary drama.

When I let it loose at home, it's crazy.

It comes out crazy.

But, Jonathan, I get it.

You're not here to make friends.

I'm not, I didn't get married to make friends.

No, you're there to expel germs from your nose.

So it sounds like, Jonathan, you side with Robert's wife.

What about you, Jesse Thorne?

Do you have an opinion?

I think the only answer here is divorce.

If I hadn't heard that sound,

I would have absolutely been on her side and been like, come on, Robert, how bad could it be?

But now that I've heard that horrible, horrible sound, I thought about quitting the podcast as it was playing.

And we've been doing this podcast together for a long time, John.

That's true.

I hope you don't quit.

I have an opinion in mind, but let's just quickly throw to Joel Mann here at WERU.

Joel?

Divorce.

Okay, thank you very much, Joel.

Joel, can you whistle?

No.

Really?

Yeah, that counts.

Okay, yes, I can.

Yeah, okay, good.

Well, here's the thing.

This is one of those situations where I, as a judge of fake internet law, have to balance competing rights, the right of a wife to annoy her husband versus the right of a public not to hear that sound.

And so I give a limited ruling in Robert's favor.

His wife may no longer whistle that way in public.

She may only exclusively whistle around him to annoy him.

This is the sound of a gavel on that one.

Let's take a quick break.

More items on the docket coming up in just a minute on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Let me ask you a question.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

This week, we're clearing the docket with Deputy Judge Jonathan Colton.

Here's a letter from Alice.

My sister Tammy wears flip-flops in the summertime, which exposes her feet to the extra grime and danger of New York City streets.

This is a long-running argument, as we both have lived here for at least 10 years.

In addition, the argument has expanded to include our other sisters, Marie and Jenny.

Our family is now divided.

I ask the judge to order my sister to cease this habit unless she is at the gym or the beach.

Flip-flops on the New York City streets.

And they lived in New York for at least 10 years, so they are dyed in the Will New Yorkers.

Hey, I'm flopping here.

I'm flopping here.

The water makes the bagels taste good.

Jesse, did you say, hey, I'm flopping here?

Did you say that?

Yeah, I did.

Oh, yeah, that was good.

That was a good joke.

I like it.

Thank you.

Let's change the name of this podcast to Dad Jokes.

Okay.

Jonathan Golden, singer, songwriter, Sage.

What is your opinion on this case?

I gotta say, I agree.

It's gross to wear flip-flops as if it were a regular shoe.

It's not a regular shoe.

It's a specialized shoe for specialized circumstances.

The beach, the gym for emergencies, you can wear it.

If you just have to go to the corner to get a thing, you can wear your flip-flops.

But for God's sake, don't walk around the city with flip-flops because your feet get disgusting.

Everything, if you have never lived in New York City, what you may not know is that everything in New York City is constantly being covered with a fine black grime.

Your windowsills,

your house, the food that you eat, the feet that you walk upon, everything gets covered in this grime.

And you come home at the end of the day and your feet are going to look disgusting.

And nobody wants disgusting feet.

Nobody wants to see your feet to begin with, let alone dirty feet.

Absolutely not.

Jesse Thorne?

Well, as a professional style writer,

I am, of course, inclined to say that flip-flops are gross.

They are for the shower and the beach.

They are specialized shoes for specialized circumstances, and the rest of the time they're pathetic and gross.

I would also add that my wife, who wore flip-flops much of the time and also often went barefoot in the house, later suffered from painful foot conditions that her doctor attributed to walking too much without arch support on hard surfaces such as the wood floors of our home and the hard streets of Los Angeles.

However,

Those things having been said,

I'm not inclined to rule that she must wear any sort of footwear.

I believe that it is her right to express how gross her feet are and how little she cares about others and her own personal hygiene.

Although I would strongly suggest that she consider getting a pair of flip-flops that have supportive soles, which do actually exist.

I'm sorry to hear about Teresa's foot condition.

What happened?

She got some heel spurs?

Yeah, she had arch problems.

Oh.

And so she now wears supportive slippers around the house.

And when she's wearing flip-flops, she's wearing these flip-flops that have shaped beds and actual support.

When I'm in New York, I wear a full bodysuit.

Yeah, of course you do.

It encompasses the footwear.

Joel's wearing a hazmat suit in New York City.

There you go.

That's it.

Zipped up, up to the top.

He gets home, takes one of those Silkwood showers, and he's all set.

Silkwood showers.

That's a great brand name.

I was going to make a crack about, Joel, up here in Maine, people, of course, consider flip-flops to be formal wear.

You wear them at weddings and such.

Yeah, we wear crocs.

Oh, my God.

You know what?

That's when you just give up.

Shut it down, Joel.

It's sort of a lifestyle brand thing with Crocs.

It's like, give up and have a lobster roll.

One of the many mottos of the world.

Sort of a northern Tommy Bahama.

Yeah, right.

All right, so Jonathan says, no, too gross.

Jesse says, but freedom.

Joel says, I wear a hazmat suit in New York.

Too gross.

Here's what I'm going to say.

It's not that gross.

I would guess that of the four of us, I am the only one who has walked through Times Square barefoot while filming a promotional video for my last book.

which I shall not name because it is not the one that I am selling currently.

The one I'm selling is called Vacation Land.

You can purchase it at bit.ly slash painful beaches.

But Jonathan and I were in a promotional video directed by Tom Sharpling for that last book, and I had to walk around Times Square all afternoon barefooted.

And you know, it was profoundly liberating.

It made me feel like I was breaking all the rules, not just of civil society, but of hygiene.

And guess what didn't happen?

I didn't get a bunch of syringes in my heel.

It didn't even get that dirty.

It's not that bad.

It felt great.

So I'm saying, yeah, go ahead and wear those flip-flops, Tammy.

As long as you're not going to the Metropolitan Opera in them, if you're just walking around outside, it's your gross choice to make.

Yeah, as long as it's white opera or below.

That's right.

Like Gilbert and Sullivan or.

Flip-flops and tank tops.

My favorite Gilbert and Sullivan operetta.

Alice, if you're not sharing a bed with your sister Tammy and her dirty feet, it's none of your business.

If you are sharing a bed with her and her feet and your grown-ups, weird.

If you're sharing a bed with just her feet, more weird.

But otherwise, it's her dirty business.

Stay out of it.

And

you know what?

Wash her feet as a gesture of submission to her independent agency.

Oh, boy.

Submitting this case really backfired for her.

Yeah.

She's got to wash her sister's feet now.

Yeah.

That's right.

That's what you get.

That's what you get for providing us free entertainment on the internet.

Megan says, my husband is an elementary school teacher and he's able to spend his summers how he pleases.

Better jealousy aside, my primary problem is how much my husband distracts me with texts or calls during the day while I'm at work.

Most recently, he decided to investigate our high energy bill.

This involved pleas to have me call our energy supplier and to instruct him on how to test our meter for energy theft.

More bothersome to me, though, are the braggy texts, those that showcase what he's doing while I'm stuck at my desk.

For example, all of the pictures of the afternoon teas that he plans for himself, complete with teapot and snacks.

Probably getting some of that uh pub cheese that they have at Trader Joe's now, spreadable cheddar cheese.

I love that boy, that's good.

While I love hearing from my husband during the day, texts of this nature spin me off into daydreams or cause me to fixate on problems with our apartment.

I'm asking the judge for an injunction against these distracting texts and phone calls while I'm at work.

Jonathan Colton, you are a self-employed person, a singer-songwriter, and co-host of Ask Me Another on NPR, and you're a freelance.

You can choose when and where you work if you wish, right?

More or less.

More than your wife, right?

That is true.

That is true.

So on a summer afternoon when all you're doing is making snacks for yourself and the kids are at school, do you ever text pictures of your high teas to Christine just to annoy her and brag at her that you made a life choice that she didn't?

I don't.

I feel like that's crossing the line.

That's rubbing salt in a wound that's inappropriate.

I feel like I'm lucky to get away with having that kind of lifestyle, and I don't want to jeopardize it by calling attention to it.

If I'm having an afternoon tea, I'm going to keep that very secret in a shameful way.

Yeah.

And what about if you were interested in tracking down the gremlins who are stealing a couple extra kilowatts from you?

Yeah, the energy.

I'm curious about the energy theft.

She kind of tossed that off there, and I don't know.

I would like to know more about that that issue.

Who is stealing their energy and how.

I feel equally intrigued.

But would you call Christine and say to her,

yeah, I have a question.

What ghosts are stealing my light bulb energy?

Will you call them for me to

ask?

Yeah, this is the thing.

Listen, if you're a teacher, you absolutely deserve that summer off.

That is for you.

But if you have summer off, you should probably chip in for that sort of thing, especially if it's your concern about energy theft.

I feel like it's your responsibility to don't make your spouse who's at work do that.

That's cruel.

Yeah, right.

Exactly, Jonathan.

I highly doubt that any of us,

this quad tribunal of four older white dudes who are here with us today, are going to side on Megan's husband's behalf.

But Jesse Thorne, you have a defense for this guy?

My only defense is this.

Sunday mornings are my time.

That's when my wife takes care of all three of our children at once, and I am left free to go to the flea market.

But when I go to the Pasadena City College flea market, the first Sunday of every month in Pasadena, California,

I am often tempted to take photographs of cute dogs and text them to my wife.

There are many cute dogs on hand, not just as guests of flea market patrons, but also as guests of the Pasadena Humane Society, which drives a bus full of dogs to the site each month.

And I myself am torn by this question.

Am I enlivening my wife's morning by offering her the refuge of a cute pup pick?

Or am I crushing her by showing her that I am petting these cute dogs, often scruffy, and she is not?

So my answer is that I must recuse myself, for my heart is

rent asunder.

Oh, all right.

Torn in twain.

So, Joel, you've heard all the arguments.

What's your opinion?

Who's right here?

Wife.

Thank you.

All right, that's Joel.

And this is not a voting situation, but I think the majority of opinions here do carry the day.

Megan's husband, I'm speaking to you now.

Leave your wife alone.

Don't torture her with your life and your braggy photos.

Those are for Instagram, not for her.

I guarantee also that since you are an elementary school teacher, that whatever she's doing all day long is bringing home the bacon.

She needs to be able to concentrate.

And any energy theft that's happening in your Hardy Boys mystery life is yours to solve.

And I want you to solve it.

I want to know what the answer is.

I would read a whole series of novels about a guy at home during the summer solving small dumb mysteries about the house that he owns.

Like the case of what is a leech field.

And what does that valve do?

I would love to hear the answers to those mysteries.

And in particular, the one

about somehow someone is stealing energy from you.

I guess we'll have to wait till next summer because summer is behind us now and you're back at it doing the good work of teaching children.

But next summer, I want you to find out the answer to that mystery and write to us.

And if I remember what you're talking about, we'll put your answer on the air.

Let's take a quick break when we come back.

Some follow-up letters about restaurant ordering etiquette and a message to correct the record from our past expert witness, John Darneill,

a rival singer-songwriter.

No boy.

Battle of the Bands.

We'll be back with the bad.

Battle of the Bands.

Battle of the Bands.

On the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So, let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

This week, we're clearing the docket with our friend Jonathan Colton.

Here's a letter from Lindsay.

My husband Thayer and I have a dispute regarding hotel amenities.

Thayer believes that all toiletries and promotional items are there for the taking.

As a result, our return luggage is often jam-packed with small shampoo bottles, bars of soap, and other miscellany.

I believe the amenities are in the room solely for use if the traveler forgot his or her own.

I make sure to pack what I need.

And as such, I don't take home any toiletries when we return from trips.

I seek an injunction.

Aren't you the best person?

What?

Sorry, go ahead.

I seek an injunction forcing Thayer to refrain from ransacking our hotel rooms for every last amenity before we depart.

Well, I've probably tipped my hand a little bit in what I think about this case.

Jonathan Colton,

you're on the road a fair amount.

You're a rambling man, in the words of Steve Martin.

You go out on tour to support your album, Solid State, is the latest one.

What's your take on that?

You've been in a lot of hotel rooms, is the point I'm making.

What's your take on what you can take and what you can't take?

Well, I have to say, I've gotten very used to scooping those things up when I leave.

And in fact, I have a kit of all of my toiletries that is packed and ready to go, so I never need to pack it.

And it

always has a few bottles of shampoo and conditioner and small tubes of toothpaste.

And those are the things that I use, as the things that I have stolen from hotels.

But is it stealing, do you think?

No, I don't think it's stealing.

I don't think...

I don't think they, because the other thing is, if you put a tiny bottle of shampoo in there,

or lotion, let's go with lotion because that's even grosser, and you don't know if somebody has used the lotion or not, they're not sealed in a way that you can tell if they've been opened.

I think it's probably the hotel's responsibility to grab those and chuck them and put new ones in there every time.

You don't know what's gone on in that hotel room.

So I think those are going in the garbage anyway.

And you might as well take them, especially with the, you know, the TSA regulations about...

Now we all have to carry travel-sized everything all the time because you can't take a big bottle of shampoo with you.

So you might as well get it from a hotel.

I know.

I remember the good old days when I used to travel around with a two-gallon jug of Johnson's baby shampoo.

You never know how dirty your hair is going to get on the road.

Yeah.

Jesse Thorne, you've heard Jonathan Colton, it puts the lotion in the basket and takes it right back home again.

Is that right or wrong?

I think there is a fine line here.

I think that it is perfectly appropriate to both use and take the amenities provided for you by the hotel.

That's one of the many ways that hotels distinguish themselves from motels.

It's a service that they provide intentionally.

You know,

they are aware and they are providing them in these small quantities specifically because they anticipate you'll take them.

However,

I have seen, and I'm not going to say where, but I'll say that it was in my grandparents' house and not my grandfather's part of that house,

a giant jar of hotel and motel mini-soaps.

Oh.

Each wrapped individually in paper.

While it made for an impressive kitsch display,

it also made me embarrassed to bear the name Thorne.

I think that there is a difference between

using them as intended in the room and even as Jonathan said, taking home an unused portion that will be automatically replaced and discarded, and

hoarding them.

For example,

taking them each day and packing them in your bag so that new ones come the next day, then taking those and packing them in your bag so that new ones come the next day.

I think that is more than the hotel is expecting or anticipating, and it is rude at the least in theft at the most.

Jesse, in your grandparents' house, have you guessed the number of soaps in the jar?

Did you, if you guessed them correctly, did you win a prize?

Yeah, we got a pizza party.

Sounds like fun grandparents.

Yeah.

Joel Mann?

Take everything you can.

Well, I don't, I think, I think that Joel and Jesse are on opposite sides of this argument, and I have to side with Jesse in that, A.

You can take them.

That's what they're there for.

Believe me, if they wanted to charge you for that stuff, they would.

Like,

you go into some hotel rooms now and you're like, hmm, what's this?

A can of Pringles potato chips.

I'm not going to shove this whole thing in my mouth right now.

I'm going to exercise restraint.

And then you put it back down again.

They've already charged you for it because there's a sensor underneath it.

They know what you're doing in there.

They've got every ability to charge you for everything

that they can imagine.

And until they start creating

a sensor soap dish

to charge you for every time you pick up one of their little soaps, then they're expecting you to use it and they will throw away what you don't use, and you can keep whatever you don't use.

Jesse is absolutely right as well, though.

You don't want to be filling up your suitcase over and over and over again so you can fill up a jar at home.

It's an interesting project, but I do think it's a bad look.

And I urge you not to get greedy with the courtesy that is afforded you.

That's a bad look.

So, sorry, Lindsay, you're not that great a person after all.

Your husband Thayer is fine.

We have some follow-up letters and corrections to the record here.

Oh, do we?

Yes.

Do we have some corrections?

Finally.

Finally.

So you might remember episode 312, but for your benefit, Jonathan, Eddie wrote in with a dispute about etiquette when ordering in a restaurant.

He thought one should order order their entree after the appetizer arrives.

His girlfriend, Katie, believed the courses should be ordered at the same time.

We ruled Eddie was wrong.

Now, John, I understand that you got some thoughts about this from a friend of the show.

A friend of the show and a friend of Jonathan Colton's and mine from way back before any of us had jobs.

I consulted Adam Sachs, Jonathan, our dear old friend, who is now the editor-in-chief of Sever magazine, magazine, food writer extraordinaire, a bon vivant, and someone who spends a lot of time in restaurants, both high and low dining.

And I asked him about Eddie's scheme to put off ordering the entree until after the appetizers were already ordered in order to get some more time in the restaurant and not feel rushed.

And Adam wrote back.

Adam wrote, I am sympathetic to the desire to slow the unstoppable death march of of time, but this isn't the answer.

Waiting to order a portion of your meal after you've been given some other part of that meal isn't, generally speaking, how restaurants work.

You can't impose an intermission at a movie theater just because you want to stretch your legs and watch the rest later.

The kitchen has a system of dealing with orders as they come up.

Servers have to look after many tables, and those tables must be turned, and other customers must be let in to occupy your table and spend money.

So feel free to tell your server you're in no rush, or or if it's a meal of many courses, that you'd like to slow the pace between them.

But, Eddie, get over this idea of gaming the system.

Eat at better restaurants that don't rush you, and most of all, improve the quality of time you spend at the table with Katie by finding something to talk to her about other than the speed of your meal.

Signed, Adam Sachs, editor-in-chief of Savura magazine and the originator of the title of the golden oldie Jonathan Colton song, My Ham is on a Roll.

Good song.

Forgot about that song.

Didn't Adam come up with My Ham is on a Roll?

He did, yeah.

He thought that was a great song.

And then you wrote a song.

I agreed.

Good thing he's a magazine editor.

It's a very editorial thing to do.

Here's a good title for a piece now, Make a Piece.

Is that song available anywhere for download?

I don't.

I don't think it is.

I think I wrote that song pre-internet, and it never, there are a collection of songs that have never made it

over the gap that have never been published.

You realize that you just invited a horde of Jonathan Colton Super fans to find and invade your home

looking for hard drives full of ham on a roll.

My ham is on a roll.

My ham is on a roll.

No, it's not a good song.

You don't want to.

My ham is on a roll.

I even remember the song.

These things you can't control.

Yeah.

I'm just whistling other things.

That's all I know.

Yeah.

You think, I am beside myself, but my ham is on a roll.

It sort of writes itself from there.

I think I still have that on cassette somewhere.

I'm going to try to dig it up.

As soon as you can find a cassette player.

Yeah, exactly.

So is the cassette labeled Jonathan's Garbage?

My ham is on a roll.

I'm opposed to this.

It wasn't good.

It wasn't good.

It was pretty.

They're all good songs, and they all be found at JonathanColton.com.

I do want to stress, first of all, my gratitude to Adam,

who I easily could have had to come in and read that letter for himself, but somehow it didn't occur to me.

So I apologize, Adam.

I will get you on the show another time.

I would love to have you on the program.

And I also wanted to say that the last part of his letter was really important: about like, you know, go eat at better restaurants that don't rush you.

And that doesn't mean fancier restaurants or more expensive restaurants.

Just go to the restaurants that treat you decently, as you should do in all aspects of your life in a retail or service interactive environment.

Patronize places where you trust you are being treated fairly.

Don't go to places where you feel that they are your adversary and you have to trick them somehow.

And if you think that every place is your adversary, then you're the one who has a problem, not them.

So there you go, Eddie.

Slow it down yourself.

What's next, Jesse Thorne?

Next is a statement from our resident heavy metal expert witness, John Darneill.

He has a correction to some incorrect information he shared in episode 320.

Might as well judge.

And thank God John Darneal's out there listening to the show and correcting himself.

He's the first person ever to turn internet corrections back upon themselves.

He's self-pedanted.

Yes, exactly.

But it wasn't, it's not a matter of pedantry.

It's a matter of integrity.

and honesty.

And that's what I love about John.

Go ahead, Jesse.

Explain.

John Darneill, a man of extraordinary integrity.

Unlike Jonathan Colton, he would never write a song called My Ham is on a Roll just because Adam Sachs told him to.

Yeah.

I'm not sure.

In fact, John Darnell, if you're listening, I commission you to write a song called A Ham is on a Roll.

Yeah,

now that I say that out loud, I remember that Ryan Johnson, another friend of ours, who is directing an upcoming Star Wars movie,

ordered John Darnell to write a song based on a long, complicated Star Wars phrase that he had jokingly suggested was the real title of the next Star Wars movie.

And Darneal, yeah, Darnell heard Ryan's fingers snapping and got to jumping.

So as soon as I find Jonathan's song and John Darnell writes his ham is on a roll, then we'll have a real battle of the bands.

That'll be fun.

But meanwhile, John Darnell has something to say.

Yeah, so the case was about Michael Anthony, the bassist for Van Halen, and whether he was a great bassist or not.

And in the episode, John repeated inaccurate information about Michael Anthony's character, and he would now like to set the record straight.

Here is audio testimony from John Darneill of The Mountain Goats.

Hi, this is John Darnell, guitarist, keyboardist, and singer for The Mountain Goats.

Thank you, Your Honor, for this opportunity to set the record straight regarding the reputation and character of one Michael Anthony, former and many would say, only true bassist for Van Haling.

At some point, probably in high school, I heard or thought that I'd heard that Michael Anthony was an uncool dude,

in more disparaging terms than that.

Whether somebody was reporting bad information to me or whether I heard this about somebody else and filed the information in the wrong drawer inside my brain, I don't know.

But the fact remains that the exact opposite per all reports is true.

You can travel far and wide, but you're unlikely to find anybody who's worked with Michael Anthony or knows him personally who didn't come away feeling like they'd worked with one of the nicest guys in the business.

The music business has no shortage of not nice guys, so I feel feel really bad about having besmirched the character of one of the good ones.

In the event that this word should get back to Michael Anthony himself, dude, no idea how I got the wrong idea about you, but absolutely everybody says you kick ass as a person.

My apologies.

For the record, I'm making this apology because I feel bad.

Nobody from Phan Halen's camp got in touch with the judge or anything.

I just heard from several people that I was dead wrong.

And when I'm wrong, I like to admit it as soon as possible.

And then, as a former Catholic, to regret it at least once a day for the rest of my natural life.

Respect to one of the best bassists ever to grace the FM airwaves.

And thanks again to the judge, judge, his beatle Jesse, and their listenership.

Thank you, Mr.

Darneal.

A true upstanding citizen of the music community.

And Michael Anthony, if you do hear this, I want you to know that I suspect there will be room for a 25-minute Jack Daniels-shaped bass solo in John Darnell's My Hammers on a Roll.

And I would love to get that collaboration going.

I'm really excited to hear that song.

Let's all hang out in the studio together, you guys.

It sounds nice.

Michael Anthony sounds like a very nice guy.

I would love to hang out in the studio with him.

Maybe you can have him on your cruise.

I would be so excited if you did.

If you just did give him a 45-minute set of playing bass guitar.

Yeah, that would be so much fun.

Yeah, I bet he'd do it.

He probably would.

That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman.

Our thanks to the great Jonathan Colton for joining us on the program.

Jonathan has a beautiful brand new album called Solid State and a perhaps even more beautiful comic or graphic novel, also called Solid State, that, as you mentioned, Jonathan,

written, outlined by you, written by the great Matt Fraction.

That's correct.

Well, that's a comic book celebrity.

He is a comic book.

I'm very, very proud that he said yes.

That's about as good as it gets, right?

I agree.

Can't beat that.

Can't beat it.

Not even if he had a baseball bat.

Jonathan, this may or may not be meaningful to you, but I got a text of a picture of your graphic novel from

another old friend of ours, Jay Evans, and he was freaking out about it.

Oh, really?

Oh, that's very sweet.

Yes.

That's very nice to hear.

I feel like I've only been friends with you guys for 12 years, and somehow I'm cut out of all of the conversation on this episode.

There's a lot of deep, deep history you're not privy to.

Hey, shut up, rookie.

I got to start talking about my friend Eugene O'Neill.

His mom and dad wrote on Hercules The Legendary Journeys.

When he wasn't writing A Hard Day's Journey into Night?

Yeah.

A long day's journey into night?

Exactly.

Well, his name, my friend Eugene O'Neill's dad's name is also Eugene O'Neill, and he really did write on Hercules.

He also is in both The Stuff and Chud.

That's amazing.

Wow.

Yeah.

He's no Jay Evans, though.

That's true.

At Jonathan Colton on Twitter is where you can find my friend Gene.

His newest album, Solid State, is available wherever you buy music.

Tickets are on sale now for the 2018 Joco Cruise.

Check out jococruise.com for details.

You might find my old boss, Sedge Thompson, there aboard ship.

Texted me that he went on the cruise last year.

Did he like it?

He did.

He had a great time.

He was really happy to be there.

Glad to hear it.

This episode was recorded by Joel Mann here at WERU in Orland, Maine, East Orland, Maine.

It says here, I apologize if I've been saying it wrong all this long and happy summer.

Joel, it's been great to spend time with you.

It's been a wonderful part of my summer, Judge.

It really has been.

And I hope it will continue in the future.

You're a real pleasure to have around.

Well, good luck this year.

You're no Gene O'Neill.

I hope both of our amateur radio operations will still be up and running next year, and I'll see you then.

I appreciate it.

WERU.org, if you want to listen to what they're doing, and the show, as always, is produced by Jennifer Marmor at Maximum Fund headquarters in Los Angeles.

Thank you, Jennifer Marmor.

You can follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

We're also now on Instagram where we share evidence at JudgeJohn Hodgman.

Hashtag your JudgeJohn Hodgman tweets.

Hashtag JJ H O, JJ Ho.

I love to look at the tweets that people send.

They are always fun and interesting,

except for the corrections.

Those are fun in their own way.

Yes, that's true.

Check out the maximum fund subreddit and maximumfund.reddit.com if you want to chat about this episode or join us on Facebook.

You can submit your cases at maximumfund.org slash JJ Ho or email Hodgman at maximumfund.org.

We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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