Live From Washington, DC

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

Who me?

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week's episode, recorded live at the legendary Howard Theater in Washington, D.C., host to some of the greatest figures in entertainment history, like Duke Ellington and us.

This episode, by the way, recorded before the 2016 presidential election, so keep that in mind, especially when you're listening to the Swift Justice dispute about voting.

Anyway, let's get to the show.

Tonight's case, Rabias Corpus.

Lauren brings the case against her boyfriend Tony.

She'd like to get a pet raccoon, but Tony is opposed.

Who's right, who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise metaphorically

as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom.

Some of my favorite things to do are sleep, eat, and play.

I love to sleep in the cupboard above all my mama's clothes, with the doors open, of course, so that I can see what is going on all the time.

For some reason, though, mama doesn't like it very much.

She's always muttering, you naughty little judge.

I sometimes like to reach down and take one of her blouses.

They feel so soft, and I love to play with the things that hold them.

They are so much fun to chew on.

Perhaps that's why she calls me naughty, whatever that means.

Weird.

Pale of Jesse Thorne.

You may swear them in.

Lauren and Tony, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever?

Yes.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he has no pet raccoons and six pet capybaras?

It's my favorite animal.

The gentleman's giant rodent.

Do you?

Yes.

Somehow, yes.

Very well.

Be seated.

You may be seated.

Lauren and and Tony.

Very nice to see you here for an immediate summary judgment and one of yours favors.

Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom?

Tony, you have been brought here against your will to my court so that Lauren may ask me to order you to have a pet raccoon for the rest of your life.

Therefore, I grant you this one accommodation.

You may guess first, or you may make Lauren guess first.

And just so you know, most people have the other person guess first because they're cowards.

Wait, is that how long they live?

Yes, a raccoon lives 107 years on average.

I'll have Lauren guess first.

They're like the tortoises of the garbage animal family.

Sorry, what were you going to do?

I'm going to have Lauren guess first.

Okay, the coward's way is the way today.

Lauren,

you must guess first, and you can't look at my piece of paper.

I saw you looking.

Oh, I think.

You're as insidious as a raccoon.

And you have similarly cute little hands.

That's true.

That's true.

I saw those opposable thumbs from across the stage.

I hope that's not harassment.

I just saw them.

What is your guess?

I don't have a guess.

You have to guess.

Maybe like a children's Beatrix Potter story?

Children's Beatrix Potter story.

I prefer Beatrix Potter's adult story.

What is your guess, Tony?

There was a raccoon character on the Care Bears.

I hope that's the answer because that's pretty much all I got.

You're talking about Breitheart, a Care Bear cousin.

Please enter Breitheart, a Care Bear cousin, into the guest book.

So noted right here under the section about Brave Star,

the Space Cowboy.

You think I didn't do my Googling this afternoon?

Tony, I did it.

I did my Googling.

But now

would be the appropriate time to say, all guesses are wrong.

You are both wrong.

The quote is actually from a book.

And the book is called, it is not...

Look, it's fair that you didn't know.

The book is about to be published, and I'm buzz marketing right now.

Coming out October 4th, 2016 from St.

Martin's, a publishing concern.

Pumpkin, The Raccoon Who Thought She Was a Dog by Laura L.

Young.

Yes, madam, I'm quoting a book that I think you know something about.

I'm so embarrassed.

You are embarrassed, aren't you?

For is it not true

that the very cute raccoon, Pumpkin, the raccoon who thought she was a dog, featured on a very popular Instagram account about this pet raccoon is not the inspiration for your desire to have a pet pet raccoon?

Pumpkin is the original inspiration.

Yes, that's.

Oh, okay.

Well, I don't know why I was so.

I thought you were going to be argumentative.

All right, very good.

Rarely at a show does one invite the audience to take out their phones, but for purposes of evidence, you may take out your phones and look at Instagram, Pumpkin the Raccoon.

I look forward to hearing fireworks of oh, hee, gaw

throughout the audience while Lauren, you explain how this raccoon on Instagram encouraged you to bring one into your own home.

So it started with Pumpkin the raccoon.

I think I saw a list of like cutest animals you should be following on Instagram.

How could that list have possibly come before your eyes?

I don't know.

The internet.

And so I started following pumpkin, and then there's another, there's a woman, Melanie Raccoon.

She has four pet raccoons, and she dresses them up and puts them on leashes and takes them for walks.

She puts them on leashes.

Oh, yes.

Little absolutely.

Why has this woman not been clawed to death?

Because they're friendly.

They're wonderful pets.

It's possible that she is just the four raccoons standing on each other's shoulders wearing a trench coat.

And that just led me down the Instagram wormhole of raccoon accounts.

And now I follow mostly raccoons on Instagram.

How many raccoon Instagram accounts do you follow?

I don't know, maybe a dozen or so.

What else do you do on the dark web?

I also follow two Capybara accounts.

As pets?

Yes.

All right.

They like to swim in swimming pools, Your Honor.

They do.

They do.

All right.

Tony,

seems like you can have anything for a pet these days.

You do not want to have a raccoon.

No, I don't.

And I haven't been asked about a Capybara yet, so we're good there.

Maybe you should count your blessings.

Maybe if I rule in your favor today, it'll be capybara tomorrow.

You guys live together?

Yes.

You are romantically involved?

Yes.

Are you married?

No.

I see.

And you live, where do you live?

Richmond.

Richmond, Virginia.

Yes.

Oh.

That is the capital of Virginia.

It is.

All right.

See, I know things.

So,

and if you were to name your top reason,

the ten top reasons for not having a raccoon, The third one will surprise you.

But of that top 10 list, number one with a bullet is, it's a raccoon, or what else?

My eyes.

I'd like to keep them.

Like to keep his eyes.

All right.

Well, we do have a very special expert witness.

Is that not so, Bailiff Jesse Thorne?

That's true.

Ladies and gentlemen, you know him from NPR, from PBS, from Al Jazeera, America.

He's a true legend of broadcast journalism.

Please welcome to the stage one of my heroes, Ray Suarez.

There he is.

Hello, Ray.

How are you?

I'm well, Jesse.

Thank you.

Now, Ray, in your capacity as a...

television and radio journalism legend.

Have you ever had occasion to interact with raccoons?

Why, yes, I have, Jesse.

Thank goodness.

What was your experience with raccoons specifically?

A tradesman had done some work on my house

and had infortuitously left the flu open to the

fireplace.

Being incredibly intelligent and cruel animals,

a raccoon found its way down my chimney and into my basement.

He destroyed everything there was to destroy

and festooned my basement with mammalian feces.

But that's not all.

We locked the basement door because we knew there was an animal destroying things like a bad Disney nature movie downstairs.

My wife was working in the laundry room where the door to the basement is located.

And late at night,

after

finding no more terror, no more havoc to wreak in the basement, Said raccoon tried to find a way out of the basement.

Imagine, if you will,

little hands

reaching out from under the door

and feeling around.

Now it's creepy because

they have those little humanoid hands.

It's like Donald Trump wearing patent leather gloves.

Finding no means of egress, he retreated

and sprung the trap where we had cleverly put peanut butter and tuna fish.

He was taken from our home.

But a pet that is extremely intelligent but does not love you

is probably not a good pet.

You might as well be talking about a cat, however.

But they can fake it.

A raccoon can't fake it.

Mr.

Suarez, do you know the Latin name for a raccoon?

Yes.

Jesse,

the family is Procyonidae.

The genus is just Procyon.

It has to do with the fact that they resemble dogs to the taxonomists who named them.

But in many other languages, they are given bear-like names because of their cute resemblance to a bear.

Mr.

Suarez, do you have any further thoughts on the matter of raccoons?

A dog loves you.

Thank you, Mr.

Suarez.

Ray Suarez, ladies and gentlemen.

Ladies and gentlemen, Ray Suarez, what a pleasure to have him here this evening to deliver that moving testimony.

Lauren, Well, how do you respond to Mr.

Suarez's story and clear concern for your safety.

Well, I want to respond by saying that's almost like comparing owning a dog to a coyote because I'm talking about a tame raccoon that I would get from a breeder.

I'm sorry, I was distracted by the gentleman's alarm.

Well, excuse me, sorry.

You are going to get a tame raccoon from a breeder.

All right, so let's,

first of all, is it legal to have a raccoon for a pet in Virginia?

You have to get a permit.

And

what is the permitting authority?

Maybe the Wildlife Department of Game and Inland Services.

Something, something animals probably.

Yeah.

Got it.

I'm sure it's not that hard, though.

So you've done a lot of research into the permiting authority.

I did a little googling.

Okay.

So with a permit, why would Virginia permit someone to have a raccoon as a pet?

That is to say, allow it under certain conditions.

Are raccoons used to fight other animals?

It just...

Does Virginia, are there people

in Virginia who use raccoons to tip over other people's garbage cans?

Not that I'm aware of.

Public service that I'm not

aware of.

But I mean,

maybe eventually they'll be as common as cats and dogs, and you just have to start somewhere.

Okay.

And you have found a breeder who's going to sell you a raccoon?

Well, there are several breeders.

None in Virginia.

Why are they breeding raccoons?

Because they seem to be out there in the wild a lot.

Does not seem to be a population issue.

Well, I raccoons are popular pets, I think, in Russia, because a lot of the Instagram accounts I follow are Russian.

And then also in South Korea, there's a lot of South Korean Instagram raccoon accounts.

So I think that the world is starting to accept raccoons as pets.

And in America, we're just a little slow at catching on.

So the raccoon breeders are just kind of like ahead of the curve.

Yeah, they're ahead of the curve in Russia, where there is probably zero regulation for all exotic pets.

I can't speak for South Korea.

Tony, you fear for the safety of your eyes.

You also brought some evidence.

Can you present the evidence now, please?

I sent the evidence in electronically.

If I were to share it, it would have to be on my phone screen.

We have screens here.

This is a real theater.

Ah.

I would be happy to talk about it.

The first image, do we have it up there, please?

It'll be up there on the sides.

There we are.

That is a raccoon.

A raccoon menacing a fish tank, I believe.

Is this an actual image or a composite image that comes from your own fears?

It comes from my own fears as well as Microsoft Paint.

I'd say.

Like 95% of that picture is actually real.

That is our fish tank.

So you have 95% of a fish tank in your home.

Oh, and I mean, just everything but the raccoon is real.

No, I, yeah.

I think the raccoon is real too, isn't it?

I figured it out.

Different.

It is an aspirational image.

You're afraid that the raccoon.

You already have fish.

Right.

And you're afraid the raccoon's going to eat the fish.

Well, more than, you can't really eat the fish.

You know what?

The picture speaks about a dozen words and I just spoke them.

You say yes, that's what they're saying.

What are you trying to, what are you getting at?

I just want to be honest with the court.

It's not that he could eat the fish because the thing is enclosed, but he could tear all the tooth

out of the back.

Nothing is enclosed so far as a raccoon is concerned.

I'm learning all kinds of things.

Next image, please.

Here we see a raccoon doing jazz hands

with emphasis on hands.

This is what Rey Suarez was talking about, Lauren.

The incredible humanoid hands.

Not only are they incredibly adept at opening locks and picking locks and opening safes, but also it gives them a rather unnerving

look because they almost look human except for all the parts of their body which are animal-like.

That is, I think that's one of the cutest things about them.

You can watch videos and they'll lay on their backs and you can put a little pile of Cheerios on their stomach and they'll just.

Yeah, but this is what you've seen on Instagram.

Yeah.

Okay.

Because I was sitting in my home in Park Slope, New York, and we have a sliding screen door out to a little ground floor garden that we have.

And I was sitting there playing Scrabble with my wife, and I see this hand open the door.

And the raccoon walks in and looks at us and looks around.

And then he says in English,

just so you know, I could kill you at any time.

And then he turned around and walked out.

But I would get one as a baby, and then it would be well trained to not mess with the fish tank and to not do bad things.

Have you found a breeder that truly, in the United States, that sells raccoons for pets?

Oh, yeah.

What's the name of this organization?

I don't remember.

But you can Google it right now.

You can Google Raccoon Breeder and find some.

No.

They're like about $500.

I'm not going to deploy my active tiny hands in that way.

They're $500.

Okay.

So you would order me to have a raccoon in your house despite Tony's feelings of concern?

I'm sure that once he met the baby raccoon and we raised it together, he would love it.

So yeah, I would like for you to order him to go with me.

I think the nearest breeder was in Tennessee, so like an eight or so hour drive.

And we would get a baby raccoon and bring it back.

Is any part of this about another creature that the two of you could have with adorable tiny hands?

No.

Good, because the raccoon would probably eat that one.

Tony, what size of an apartment do you live in in Richmond, Virginia, or do you have a house?

It's a condo.

It's an old church, so it's pretty big inside, but it's not as big in floor space.

But there's a lot of

ceiling area, and I've seen pictures of raccoons when I was Googling.

Yes.

Where they are, like, hanging from ceilings and rafters, and it's terrifying.

And do you share this condo with other people?

Just the two of us.

Oh, okay.

All right, gotcha.

If I were to order in your favor, Lauren, and the raccoon did not work out, would the breeder take it back?

I'm sure every reputable breeder will take it back.

Yeah, probably.

Yeah, probably.

Who doesn't want a used raccoon?

They couldn't hack it in a human house.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going to go under the porch and roll around in some garbage.

And when I come back, I'll give you my decision.

Ladies and gentlemen, please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Now,

I have to say, Tony, it seems to me like you might sincerely be afraid of raccoons.

Is that the case?

Yeah, I don't think I'm trying to hide that.

Are you worried the raccoon would do something to you?

Yeah, most definitely.

Like what?

Well, like besides the eyes.

I feel like that's a lot.

Fair enough.

Lauren, do you think you mentioned using Google to find raccoon breeders earlier?

Do you think that you could use Google to find a different kind of animal that was also cute?

Well, I...

Like one that was normal to have in your house.

I had two dogs when Tony and I moved in together.

They weren't that cute?

No, they were really cute.

They were older, though, and they've both since passed away.

And so I just felt like it's an opportunity to do something different.

Our neighborhood is kind of weird, and there's like a lady who has a pet goose that hangs out in her front yard with her.

This is about keeping up with the Joneses.

It is!

It is!

And so

it would just be, I would be like the raccoon.

She's just going to get a Cappy Barn.

It's going to be on.

It would just be so fun.

Like everyone in the neighborhood would know us.

We would take a walk with the raccoon.

Pretty soon you're going to be like Kelsey Grammar, just walking down the beach in Malibu in your underpants with a puma on a chain.

Something like 1986, 7, 8, around then, when he was really a mess.

Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all of this.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

So

I have a document that I would like to read to you.

It is a statement from the Humane Society of the Bahamas.

Where pumpkin's from?

Where Laura, where pumpkin is from, yes, and also the humans that take care of pumpkin, who found pumpkin when pumpkin was orphaned as a baby and bottle-raised pumpkin to live with their dogs, Toffee and Oreo.

It's a pretty adorable scene in the Bahamas.

And in this forthcoming book of adorable pictures and very little text, some of the text includes a statement from the Humane Society of the Bahamas.

Laura and Will are amazing animal lovers who've always put themselves in the forefront of helping animals and assisting the Bahamas Humane Society.

Little pumpkin is just one of the many wonderful things they have done.

You don't actually do a raccoon, but all right.

At least,

as president of the Bahamas Humane Society, I would like to remind people that although pumpkin is one of the cutest animals I've ever seen, it is not advisable to try to keep a raccoon as a pet in the pumpkin book.

Now,

did Laura pay the Humane Society to tell people to not get pet raccoons to safeguard her own Instagram following?

Probably.

But it does not discount the fact that raccoons do not have the history of domestication, of generations and generations of domestication and selective breeding that have allowed dogs and cats to become companion animals for for years and years and years.

My concern is that you are rolling the dice with your little tiny raccoon hands.

And there's another concern as well.

Ray Suarez found the hands to be the scariest thing, but the hands aren't what's going to kill you.

It's all the feces that that raccoon left.

I learned when a raccoon turned my deck into a latrine

from the internet that I am not allowed to touch raccoon poop.

And so none of you are either, because it's toxic poison.

70% of adult raccoons and 90% of juveniles harbor a parasitic roundworm that lays its eggs in the poop.

And if you get those poop eggs into your body somehow, you might get infected with symptoms that include nausea, tiredness, this is from the CDC, liver enlargement, loss of coordination, lack of attention to people and and surroundings,

loss of muscle control, blindness, and coma.

And

should a raccoon poop on your deck, it says treat decks and patios and other surfaces with boiling water or a propane flame gun.

Now I have no doubt that your quote unquote reputable breeder is going to tell you, no, my raccoon does not have this round worm that every other raccoon in the world has.

And they're certainly not going to provide you with a flame gun.

This raccoon is not going to be pooping on your dick, but what, in a litter box in your house?

Or like when you take it on walks.

Here's what happens.

When a cat poops in the litter box, you get toxoplasmosis, and then that parasite makes you want to get more cats.

Raccoon poops in a box, that parasite gets into your brain, and all of a sudden you're in a coma.

I really, and my research at least showed that it is not legal for you to have a raccoon as a pet in Virginia, Maryland, or the District of Columbia where we are now.

Now, all of that said,

there may be something that you know that I do not.

You might have a secret plan to defeat the roundworm that you won't tell me about.

You say that there's a permit you can get?

All right.

You say there's a reputable breeder?

All All right.

I think it's highly unadvisable that you do this because all you really want to do is become an Instagram star.

And now all of a sudden, she let the record show that she nodded.

Just kidding.

Even though there might be some quasi-legal way for you to go about this, this is a huge investment and a real risk.

And I don't think that it's something that you should undertake in Richmond, Virginia, when the person that you love lives in the house and wants to protect his fish and their fish tank tubes.

So either you leave Tony and get your phony permit and go down with the ship and go into a coma on your own,

or else you get an animal that has a reliable history of domestication and go and find and make friends with your Instagram friends and touch and pet their raccoons.

I know someone who follows some very famous corgis on Instagram, and you can pay them some money to bring them to your party.

That's good enough.

Yeah, that's right.

You can pay to have celebrity corgis come to your party.

I didn't do it, but I petted a corgi.

That is your solution for now.

Until then, no raccoons.

This is the sound of a gabble.

Judge John Hodgman rules the aid.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Ladies and gentlemen, Warren Tony, and a special thank you to broadcasting legend Ray Suarez.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Judge Judge Hodgman, we could just adjudicate cases all night, or we could throw this audience a little bit of a curveball.

Well, you know, I love sports metaphors.

So let's kick them a curve, shuttlecock.

Well, how about some music?

I think that sounds great.

We have a really special musical guest.

It was absolutely surprising and impossible that he should be able to be here tonight because I looked on his website to see if he would be around, and he's supposed to be in another part of the country.

But we move things around because he's actually performing on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday night with his group at the grand opening of the National Museum of African American History and Culture this Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

He's an incredible artist, and his name is Dom Flemons.

He's one of the founding members of the Carolina Chocolate Drops, now a solo artist.

His latest album is called Prospect Hill.

It's an amazing album.

He's playing with Dante and Brian, who are also amazing musicians.

You can find out about his music at theamericansongster.com.

Ladies Ladies and gentlemen, Dom Flemons, Brian Farrow, and Dante Pope.

We're going to hit a song here called Till the Seas Run Dry.

It's a pleasure to be here at the Howard Theater.

You guys ready?

Yep.

All right.

It's too late.

I can't get along with you, honey, babe.

Too late, seems that we've run out of time.

So I'll always remember the love we shared?

Gotta get you, baby, off my mind.

Now get away, get away.

I'm never gonna take you back.

Not till the clocks run backwards and the seas run dry.

You treated me like a fool and oh, so cruel.

But too late, baby, to try me one more time.

Yeah.

Let's get down to it, hold on.

Boy, it sounds so good, get it one more time.

All right, let's boys, let's take it home.

Come on, let's do it.

Ladies and gentlemen, the Don Flemings Trio

Judge Hodgman, so far we've only dispensed one set of justice.

That's right.

One complete justice set has been dispersed.

We're only going to be in Washington, D.C.

tonight.

I think we really need to pick up the pace.

All right.

What do you suggest?

I suggest that we dispense our next set of justice in just 10 minutes.

You're talking about swift justice.

Oh, that's exactly what I'm talking about, ladies and gentlemen.

All right, bring out the next case.

We'll get it done in 10.

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Michelle and John.

Let the record show that Michelle and John have shown up with a lot of props,

bags, and a creepy cooler as well.

Let's show that Michelle and John are probably on their way to bring someone a much-needed kidney

and a lasagna.

So.

Savory justice.

Say it again.

Savory justice.

Savory justice.

You must be John.

That's correct.

All right, I swear you in.

Done.

Michelle, I swear you in.

Sorry, Bailiff Jesse.

We got to move on.

Swift justice.

What is the nature of your dispute?

Who is authorized to speak for you both?

I'll speak for us since I sued my husband.

For 25 years, we have had a dispute about the definition of chicken pot pie.

It is not a sandwich.

It is not a sandwich.

Done.

Are we done?

Was that it?

There There you go.

Not quite.

Well, what is your dispute about this most pressing issue?

I come from Pennsylvania and in Pennsylvania.

Thank you.

Where in Pennsylvania are you from?

I am from Hershey, Pennsylvania.

Hershey, Pennsylvania, where a chicken pot pie is a chocolate souffle.

Almost.

All right.

So where I come from, chicken pot pie is a dish that has noodles in it.

Thank you for bringing, by the way, visual aids.

Let the record show that Michelle is holding up a copy, an enlargement of a page from Food and Wine.

The headline is: Slow Cooker Pennsylvania Dutch chicken pot pie.

And we'll take that.

I'll take that for the record.

Next.

We can just throw them all there if you'd like.

No, no, no.

Let's go on through.

So we.

The next piece of evidence is a transcript from Country Living, Pennsylvania Dutch chicken pot pie.

All right, I've examined the picture.

Very good.

Next.

Boston Globe.

Boston Globe, my hometown newspaper.

Recipe for Pennsylvania Dutch chicken pot pie.

Okay, this is what I'm seeing here, and we'll just, I'll take that into evidence as well, that last one, there we go.

What I am noticing with all of the wonderful, and thank you very much for the enlargements because I can't see the way I used to.

All the wonderful evidence you produced here is that all of the images suggest

chicken soup as opposed to chicken pot pie.

They're all bowls of chunks of chicken in a broth.

They are noodles cooked in a pot.

Yeah, I'm talking about chicken soup.

This is the crux of my countersuit, Your Honor.

All right, let me.

What is the...

What is the problem?

I do have some actual.

My sister made this for you.

Let the record show.

We were just in Philadelphia last night

talking with the director of the Mutter Museum of Medical Oddities.

And let the record show that Michelle is attempting to hand me a specimen jar

of an unspecified, opaque colloid that she calls pie.

Joshua, I'm not going to rule in your favor, Michelle, but you're actually digging your hole right now.

Josh Hoshman, please take care.

The last time I was handed a jar like that on stage, it was by the director of that museum, and it did turn out to be full of flakes of human skin.

This is a chicken pie.

This is a what?

A chicken pie.

A chicken pie.

Sorry, it's a little wet from the ice.

But that's a chicken pie.

See, it's even labeled chicken pie.

All right, this is something that you picked up from

Anvil, Pennsylvania, from, I'm guessing, a gas station.

It is a fully cooked microwave chicken pie.

And this is evidence of what exactly that there's a changing.

There's a difference between a chicken pot pie and a chicken pie.

Oh, so you're saying that in the Hershey, Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania Dutch tradition, chicken pot, the pot in chicken pot pie, connotes that it's the ingredients of a chicken pie, but made in a pot.

I'll go with that.

You should, because

that almost convinced me.

All right.

Now I'm on Michelle's side, John, and we've only got five minutes and 36 seconds left.

What are you going to say?

The crux of my countersuit, Your Honor, is that pie must, it implies crust, and that it actually is the origin of the dispute because Michelle brought home what she claimed to be.

Thank you.

And she brought home from Pennsylvania on one of a trip home very early in our relationship or early in our marriage,

promising me.

I'm just listening.

I'm just examining the evidence on the floor over here.

And I have further evidence as well.

And a pie, according to Miriam, is a savory or sweet dish

contained.

According to Miriam, Merriam-Webster, the dictionary.

Sixth grade speech and debate class

you go with what you got

I however have an actual pot pie

let's see

this would be an actual pot pie stand hand that over to me let the record show

That was cooked earlier, but as

let the record show that a chicken pot pie got almost as much applause as legendary broadcaster race horror

This is a paper pie plate full of chicken mush with a crusty topping.

You're pretty much stereotypical chicken pot pie.

And furthering my contention that pie requires crust, we have a relatively local delicacy, tasty cake pie.

This one is pumpkin, special edition.

Tasty cake pumpkin pie from Philadelphia.

Which you will note is entirely enclosed in crust.

And other things.

It's also enclosed in a gamma-ray-proof box.

I had also submitted some electronic evidence, an expert testimony from noted American cuisine expert Guy Fieri.

Yes, and

I refuse to share that evidence.

I'd like to note that Alton Brown recognizes Pennsylvania Dutch chicken pot pie as a form of chicken pot pie?

Well, I was going to say that comparing all the evidence here on the floor, all of these chicken soup recipes that you're giving me are identified specifically as Pennsylvania Dutch chicken pot pie.

So the question really is,

is chicken pot pie called pot pie because it's made in a pot?

Is that the variation such that an open-face sandwich, which isn't a sandwich but is a variation of a sandwich, that uses the term open face, that that pot

invalidates the pie aspect, which I think we all agree is something that has a crust?

Or is Pennsylvania Dutch the additional term you need in order to make this chicken soup into chicken pot pie?

And I'm not sure that either of you did a full historical etymological research into the history of the term chicken pot pie, did you?

I actually left it on my table because I didn't want to overwhelm you with evidence, but I did.

I knew we had five minutes.

This is like an O.

Henry story.

It's like, you brought me

a jar of chicken mush,

a microwave garbage from a gas station, a tasty cake, a fresh chicken pot pie, and five basic whiteboards of information.

And the one thing,

the one thing that would have won your case

is on the table.

Where is your table?

It's right down there.

Quick!

Quick!

Run or I'm going to execute this woman.

Get this evidence to the jailhouse immediately.

Well, you've given me a huge chunk of text.

The only thing that you have highlighted here for my perusal is this sentence.

Ole Valley Community Benefit Association that can boast an attendance of 1,500 or more people to eat or take out.

It's not even a complete sentence.

That was evidence that chicken pot pie is also a phenomenon in Pennsylvania Dutch history.

Here is the ruling:

you have established that there is a distinct variation of chicken pot pie called Pennsylvania Dutch chicken pot pie.

It is soup.

It is a stew, a crustless stew,

that you can call pie in Pennsylvania as long as you call it Pennsylvania Dutch chicken pot pie, so that it will not be confused with what we all recognize is chicken pot pie.

How about in Maryland where we live?

Be quiet, sir.

As long as you call it Pennsylvania Dutch chicken pot pie, you can serve soup.

If you call it chicken pot pie,

it's gotta have a crust.

This is a sound of gavel.

With 21 seconds to spare, ladies and gentlemen, Michelle and John.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no.

No, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah.

You don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back.

It goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined!

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Long.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else, too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

What's next in the Swift Justice category?

Well, Judge Hodgman, we've handled one case in 10 minutes, but can we handle three cases in 10 minutes?

Yes, I think we can.

Well, let's start the clock and introduce our first case, ladies and gentlemen, Laura Ruth and Abby.

Laura Ruth and Abby.

Jesse Thornton Swear as you in, say yes.

Yes.

Good.

There it's done.

You may be seated.

Laura, which is Laura Ruth.

How do you do?

I do very well.

How are you?

Good, thank you.

What is the dispute about?

I believe we have a very fundamentally flawed electoral process, and I wish to abstain from voting in the presidential election this year.

You want to abstain?

And I want Abby to leave me alone.

I want her to let me make my choice to not vote and leave me alone because that's a choice that I have, and I think that that's a better choice than choosing something so that I don't have to choose another thing.

That's not a real choice.

I'd like to mention right now, I think this is the perfect time, that we do have rotten tomatoes for sale at the back bar.

I know this is contentious.

It's Washington, D.C.

I'm ready to be blacklisted, but that's how I feel.

You have a problem with the electoral process?

Is it a problem with the Electoral College?

That's just one tiny part of it.

Yeah, so the Electoral College is actually a pretty good college.

It's actually pretty nice.

But the town of Electoral is a shit hole.

What would you say if the Electoral College is just a tiny portion of what's the big problem, such that you feel as a protest, you will not participate in our representative democracy?

Well, I have a really big problem with the fact that it's a two-party system, and being a D.C.

resident, our primary election wasn't even until late June.

So by then, I didn't have a choice even in the primary candidate.

So I feel like I have no real voice and no choice in the matter.

Well, there's definitely a choice to be made.

I

But I think that it limits our real options when you have to choose one thing just so you don't get stuck with a worse, and I fully agree that there is a worse option.

Yeah, but I don't think that that's a real choice.

And I feel like I'm tired of it, and it's been like that since I've been a voting adult, and I'm tired of participating in that kind of process.

It didn't actually just start when you were born.

No.

No.

You're

engaging in how little the process is concerned with your life.

Forever.

It's not about me?

Yeah, no, it's not in some ways about you.

But that's all right.

And say your name again, please.

I'm Abby, and I am Laura Ruth's work wife.

So I cry.

Where do you guys work?

The White House.

No.

We work for a childbirth education organization.

When my wife was giving birth, she wanted me to be in the room with her, and I said, I actually have some problems with the system.

You're the work wife, and you argue what?

I think that voting is important because it's our only way to influence down-ticket elections and also to become engaged in our own electoral process.

And if, like me, you were upset this primary season, like every other primary season, that the system isn't great, I hope you'll join me in the general election, or I mean, after the general election in 2017, petitioning the DNC to make some changes, et cetera.

Well, let me tell you, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off and mansplain you.

But let me tell you what's true.

There's no mansplaining like white mansplaining.

You're getting the best stuff right now.

White mansplaining don't stop.

True.

Very true.

I'll tell you what I think.

I think that I appreciate that there are tremendous systemic problems in our voting system for sure.

I don't believe that change happens by sitting out.

And I do think that there is a profound choice to be made, especially in this election.

I'm sure people who are voting for the candidate that I'm not voting for feel the same.

And

I think that it's important.

I think it's very, very important to do it.

But it is your right as a citizen to not vote.

I think

it's not a decision that I respect, but

I respect your right to make it.

But what would you have me rule that Abby has to shut up about it?

I will if you rule that.

I guess I'll ask you to.

I'm asking for a Ruth

who has agency.

Stop work wife explaining things to her.

What would you have me rule?

Yeah, I wouldn't have.

I heard what I had to say.

I would like permission to not vote and to not have to feel like I'm the worst human ever ever who didn't do a single good thing for society just because I'm not voting.

There's a billion things I do that are good.

I work for a nonprofit.

I donate to causes that are important to me.

I do a lot of good things.

I don't think the only way to do good things for our society is to vote.

So I would.

Do you intend to engage in the political system?

Yeah, and I do.

Yeah, I'll vote.

I just don't want to vote for the president.

I'll vote for my advisory neighborhood commission.

I'll vote for all kinds of other things.

I just, that's the main one.

So, so, yes, I'm perfectly willing to put it in.

Here's the deal.

Abby, she's not going to vote for president.

You and I both feel that's a terrible decision.

But our friends make terrible decisions sometimes.

And as long as she's not causing harm to herself, just to others, apparently.

Just everyone else.

There's nothing you can do.

I find in favor of Laura Ruth, unfortunately.

Our next case, Nyla and Dylan.

Hello.

Normally I do not allow children into my courtroom because

that is the province of Judge John Hodgman Child Court.

Juvie Judge John Hodgman, which is a spin-off that I have just invented and may do,

depending on how this works out.

But

I heard from this family, they have disputes, they have a problem, and we need to get it sorted out.

So which one of you is Nyla?

He.

Nyla.

And Dylan?

Yes.

And okay.

And how old are you, Dylan?

I'm 14.

14?

And Nyla, how old are you?

Eight.

Eight.

And you have something that you would like to read to the court?

Yeah.

Is that correct?

Yeah.

Okay.

Does it need any setup?

No.

Okay.

I think it's self-explanatory, right?

Yeah.

So lean right on into the mic.

Dear dad.

Wait a minute.

Stop pushing her around.

Your older sister's telling you what to do.

Your mom's telling you.

Mom and dad,

go over there.

Go stand by the double bass.

Also, she should be allowed to go to the mall by herself.

Her friends are already there.

Well, no, no, don't be sitting on anyone's,

no, don't be sitting on the drum set.

All right, we're good.

You're good.

All right, please go ahead.

Dear Judge Hodgman, my name is Nyla and I'm eight years old.

I like to listen to Hamilton constantly.

I like it in the car, on the phone.

Hold on, Tyler, Tyler.

Pause.

Hold for applause.

When you hear them going, you just take a moment and soak it in.

I've found in my performing experience, if you're ever feeling bad and you want to get a lot of applause, you just say, Hamilton.

And now is the perfect time to feel good.

Pretty soon, you'll be a teenager like your sister, and everyone will resent you.

All right, go ahead.

I like it in the car, on the phone, and in our house.

My sister, Dylan, she is 14 years old, likes to listen to Hamilton, but she only likes to listen to it about once a week.

She says we need an equal amount of different music.

What is the right amount of Hamilton?

I find in Nyla's favorite.

You get taken Hamilton all you want.

Any amount that you enjoy is the right amount.

And I'm sorry that you have

parents and older sisters who are trying to limit your exposure to Hamilton.

And I'm sending, I took a picture of you and I'm going to send it to Lynn-Manuel Miranda tonight.

And I'm going to

send him a copy of your essay.

And I'm going to crop you out of the picture.

Sorry.

Thank you very much for joining.

We've got to move on.

We have one minute left for the next case.

From episode 194 of Judge Sean Hodgman, do you want to hoard some snow globes?

Please welcome Sean and Jamie.

Sean and Jamie.

Jamie, you may remember, wanted to devote an entire room in their house to the movie Frozen.

Sean took him to court because he felt that Jamie's obsession with Frozen was getting out of hand.

He wanted a room dedicated to Frozen.

Judge Hodgman ruled that Jamie could have the frozen room, but he had to make sure to keep all frozen items in that room.

Sean, Jamie, what's your dispute now?

He didn't do it.

Have you had frozen room mission creep?

Frozen room mission creep in the house, outside of the house.

My aunt, he's not to fault for this, sent us an eight-foot-tall blow-up Elsa statue.

Was in our front yard at Christmas.

Not to be a Scrooge.

I let it happen, but I would like some justice.

If I might add, we won awards for that frozen decoration outside in our front yard.

What did you win?

The green award for using wind power in our house?

Which had nothing to do with Elsa.

And also came in second place in the whole town.

Just saying.

And first place in the category most frozen.

Yeah, yeah,

I thought it was a little mid-nose.

And

what town is this?

Hyattsville, Maryland.

Hyattsville, Maryland.

Why can't you keep your frozen stuff in your frozen room?

Because people keep sending me things.

It's because of the incredible popularity of this podcast.

Exactly.

Yeah, a way to flatter the court.

And I actually brought this for you, but then that little girl, Nyla, back there, she told me that our episode was her favorite, and so I'd like to give it to her.

Yeah, please do.

Yeah.

Okay.

Nyla, come back out.

She's still there.

She's still there.

We'll hand that up.

Let the record show.

Let the record show, a child was made happy.

And at least one piece of frozen merchandise was Marie Kondo'd out of this house.

Jamie?

Yes.

We had an agreement.

I know.

You got to keep your froze in your froze room.

Okay.

Get it all up in there.

Okay.

What?

Can I just ask, because he's been kind of horrible about having control over literally everything else in the house.

You're the Disney hero.

You're the Disney hero.

He's the Disney villain.

Enjoy the narrative.

Get the frozen stuff in the room.

Ladies and gentlemen, Sean and Jamie.

Somehow, even more adorable in real life.

We're coming up on the end of our show, Jesse.

But I think we can make some more time for our friend Dom Flemings, don't you?

Yes, please.

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome back to the stage the Dom Flemings trio.

Well, thank you, folks.

Pleasure to be back, you know.

Judge John Hodgman, ain't he great?

Well, folks, in all my travels, you know, I've written a lot of different songs about things I've seen, and this is one of the ones I get requested to play the most.

This is a song about food and that's probably why.

This is about a dish in,

well, it was in East Nashville, Tennessee.

Now it's become the culinary darling of the entire country.

It's a dish called hot chicken.

All right, we've got some fans of hot chicken.

Okay, okay.

For you folks who aren't hip to it, it's a fried chicken dish.

And so not only is it fried, but you fry it with a batter that's made with cayenne powder.

So it's hot.

And not only that, after it's fried, it's rolled around in cayenne powder after that.

So it's even hotter.

And it's said to bring on hallucinations if you get extra hot.

I just had medium, and it left such an impression on me, I had to write this next song.

One called Hot Chicken.

All right, boys, let's get it.

One, two,

Mr.

Run the mother hen, said cocka, doodle-doo.

Mother hen, say, you dern, old fool, my fricacy ain't for you.

You ought to get hot chicken.

You ought to get hot chicken.

Cause if you want hot chicken, East Nashville, Tennessee.

Jack Rabbit run the healer monster, run him a solid mile.

Healer monster turned around and said, you know, hey, Buck, this running ain't my kind of style.

You ought to get hot chicken.

You ought to get hot hot chicken,

because if you want hot chicken, East Nashville, Tennessee

Young man knocked on the window glass,

old man gave him the eyes.

He said, Boy, you done had your fun with my wife.

Quit knocking on my blinds and goin' and get your hot chicken.

Don't mistake her for hot chicken, don't you?

But we gotta go,

East Nashville, Tennessee.

Oh, yeah, Rocky.

All right, get along, Brad Farrell.

Give me the room, boys.

Old man Ladies Phil down,

wine glass in his hand.

He said, Times have gotten so damn hot that I can't no longer dance.

I gotta keep me hot chicken.

Doctor suggested hot chicken.

When I gonna go, East Nashville, Tennessee.

Little frog hopped by my feet.

Big tear in his eye.

He said, I can't believe my own true love told me to hop on by.

Let's get hot chicken.

I think she suspected hot chicken.

When I hopped into

East Nashville, Tennessee.

Woo, babe, I'm hot to get hot chicken, hot, hot chicken.

Now hot chicken, hot, hot chicken.

Now hot chicken, hot, hot chicken.

Well, now hot, hot chicken, yeah.

Hot, hot chicken now.

Now you listen to WDO them coming at you from East Nashville, Tennessee.

When they ain't got no neck bones, they got no chitlins in the pot.

All they got here is a chicken that's awfully hot.

Way down to East Nashville, Tennessee.

Come and and see us sometime.

And we sang, sang, sang, sing.

Hot, hot, chicken.

Get out, boy, get out.

I'm on a kit, now the chicken, a hot, hot chicken.

Now hot a chicken, a hot, hot chicken.

Now hot a chicken, a hot, hot chicken.

Oh, now hot, hot chicken, chicken.

Yeah.

Hot, hot chicken.

Deedlet and needle of beetle of bone.

Thank you so much, folks.

Now, ladies and gentlemen, I want to introduce back onto the stage the man himself, Judge John Hodgman.

Don Flemings and the Don Flemings trio ladies gentlemen

This is a song

that we started playing at our live events in San Francisco.

It's a song by the Handsome Family and it has nothing to do with the law, though it's sort of the least judgmental song I know.

I had nothing

to say

on Christmas Day

when you threw your clothes in the snow.

You burned your hair,

knocked over chairs.

I just tried to stay out of your way

when you fell asleep with

blood on your teeth.

I got in my car and drove away.

Listen to me,

butterfly.

There is only

so much wine

you can drink

in one life.

It'll never

be

enough

to save you from the bottom of your glass.

Take it now.

Where the state highway starts,

I parked my car, I got out

to look at the stars

as meteors died,

shot across the sky.

I thought about

your sad and shining eyes.

I came back for my clothes as the sun finally arose.

You were still passed out on the floor,

listen to me,

but earth cry.

There is only

much wine

you can't drink

in one life.

It will never

be

enough

to save you from the bottom of your glass.

Listen to me,

butterfly.

There is only

so so much

wine

you can drink

in one life.

It'll never

be

enough

to save you from the bottom of your glass.

Don Flemings, Don Flemings trio, Brian Farrow,

Dante Pope.

How about one more from these guys, if you will?

All right, yeah.

Thank you, John.

Ladies and gentlemen, here they go.

Well, folks,

such one is such a wonderful historic theater, we've decided to do a song taking it way, way back.

Now, this is a song that's called Kicking Up the Devil on a Holiday.

And this is a song that was

from the John Briggs banjo instructor from 1865.

And so we're going to get Brian set up here.

He's going to pull out his fiddle, give us a little bit of melody.

And then Dante and I are going to be playing an instrument called the rhythm bones.

So these are cow rib bones here,

you know, chopped down to this size here.

And we hold them between the fingers.

And when you hold them like so, you can move your wrist and get a little clicking sound.

And then you can swing it.

But we're going to do a little bit of that for you right now.

How you doing?

Come on up here so people can hear you.

Don't worry,

they're going to hear the bones.

Amen.

Let's feel golden

tide with a heavy name.

Our thanks to the Dom Flemings trio for playing some really wonderful music for us in Washington, D.C.

Thanks also to Ray Suarez for sharing his expert raccoon testimony.

We also want to give a shout out to the great Linda Holmes from NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour, who was kind enough to introduce us at the show.

You didn't hear that on tape, but it was really wonderful.

Thank you, Linda, and thanks to NPR PCH.

Thank you, Rachel Karch, for naming this week's dispute rabias corpus.

To name a future case for Judge John Hodgman, like us on Facebook.

We're always putting out calls for submissions.

This week's episode was produced by Danielle Davis, Matthew Barnhart, and Jennifer Marmer.

To submit a case to the Judge John Hodgman podcast, go to maximumfund.org slash JJ Ho or email hodgman at maximumfund.org.

We're on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

And that's about it.

We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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