Live From Philadelphia, PA 2016

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week's episode was recorded live on stage at the Trocadero Theater in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

It's a good one.

Let's go to the stage.

Tonight's case, U Chienne on Deluge.

Andy and Catherine bring the case against their respective spouses, Karen and T.C.

Karen and T.C.

believe dogs need weather-protective clothing in particularly cold or wet weather.

Andy and Catherine say that dogs are born with fur and paws that can withstand weather conditions.

That additional clothing draws unwelcome attention.

Who's right, who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise metaphorically

as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers the obscure cultural reference.

Nurse,

nurse, come quick.

I have a confession to make.

I, John Barker, murdered the night watchman of the Dogville department store.

The bookkeeper is innocent.

Oh, the pearly gates, the pearly gates, they're beckoning.

Oh, Gabriel, blow that horn louder, louder, louder.

Do you swear, please raise your right hands.

This is very distressing.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever?

I do.

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he wears protective booties no matter what the weather?

I do I do very well Judge Hodgman

Andy

Catherine Karen and TC

you're TC you're Karen Catherine Andy I will try to keep it straight this is the first time we've had couples suing couples

the couples are cross-suing

this is like a legal key party yeah I know this is the swingiest

It's unnerving.

But let's get this out of the way.

For an immediate summary, judgment in one of yours favors, and you guys can work together as a team.

Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom?

Let's see.

Who should go first?

Who is being brought to this court?

All right, so that's TC and Karen.

TC and Karen, you are being brought to this court against your will regarding this argument about dog clothing.

You have the choice to either guess first or make

Catherine and Bozo.

What is your name?

Andy.

Andy.

You are really taxing this court with all of your names.

We should get like giant Prices Right style names.

We really should.

We really should.

Also, we should get all the other stuff from the Prices Right.

People like the Prices Right.

I went to CBS Television City once and I spun that wheel.

Really?

And they asked me to leave.

They said, please don't do that.

It's 2 a.m., sir.

There was a brief time when I was living on the Price's Wright Studios.

All right.

So, T.C.

and Karen, do you choose to guess first or make Catherine and Andy guess first?

Yeah, I'm going to invite Andy and Catherine.

The classic coward's maneuver.

All right.

Andy and Catherine

are talking to each other.

And are you ready to make the guess?

Yeah.

All right, step forward and speak into the microphone, sir.

I think it is from a film called The Man Who Wasn't There.

Film, The Man Who Wasn't There, the Cohen Brothers film starring Billy Bob Thornton?

The very same.

All right.

Well, put that into the guest book.

That is officially a guest's.

So noted.

Now it is time.

You can avoid this no longer.

All cowards face justice eventually.

TC and Karen, what is your guess?

I'm going to go with Airbud 3 World Pup.

Let her get.

Please.

Let her get the subtitle out, please.

That is Airbud 3 World Pup.

World Pup.

I did not know there was a third Airbud movie.

Well, Judge Hodgman, there's nothing in the rule book that says a dog can't play soccer.

Good point.

We'll put that in the guest book.

And now I may tell you, all guesses are wrong.

Although, Airbud,

that would have saved me a lot of time if I had thought of that.

I would have been on time for dinner with my aunts if I had thought of that.

If I had thought to go there, no, you're completely wrong.

Why did you think the man who wasn't there?

That has nothing to do.

Does that have a dog in it even?

No, but it just sounds like.

Same after the barbershop case, dum-dum.

No, so that quote was the rather touching death scene of the character,

what's his name?

Oh, here it is: John Barker, who is the villain in a 1930 short called The Big Dog House.

MGM, between 1929 and 1931, made nine short subject comedies that were all set in Dogville, and all of the characters were dogs dressed up in clothes

and were forced by, I would say, mysterious means to walk around on their hind legs,

wearing clothes in a rather unnerving display of acrobatics for dogs

and then they would get them somehow I guess using peanut butter like with Mr.

Ed they would get them somehow to open their mouth and close their mouths and then actors would dub the lines

this whole this whole act by the way originated right here at the Trocadero in Philadelphia Pennsylvania exactly if you like seeing confused terrified dogs in tuxedos and gowns.

You should check out all of these.

Now, this is a non-visual medium for those listening at home, and even here we don't have a screen, we can't show you, but everyone always delights at the sound of Jesse Thorne's laughter.

And

maybe if I show him just a scene from this, you might hear that laughter, or you might learn to delight at Jesse Thorne's gasps of disgust.

Hang on one second while I bring it up, and we'll just see.

This is okay.

This is from the first one.

This was called Hot Dog.

This was the first film in the Dogville series.

They were billed as a series of barkies instead of talkies.

Get it?

Ha ha ha.

And what we're seeing here is

a saloon with a bunch of dogs dancing and drinking.

It opens with dogs drunk at a table.

Okay.

What are you doing, guys?

Oh, I wish you could see this.

That's a dog waiter.

It's a dog, and he's holding a

tray.

Oh, these look at these dogs.

Oh, my God.

Oh, my God, I did not know that the judge was going to do that to me.

Do you need a moment to collect yourself?

I honestly could not have dreamed of a more perfect response.

That's the dumbest shit I've ever seen in my life.

What's interesting,

as amusing as it is,

it's also very troubling because the dogs truly seem terrified the entire time.

And given the fact that it was made in the 1930s, it's weird seeing dogs be racially insensitive to each other.

So

if you do check it out,

please, trigger warning, okay?

There's some not right stuff in it.

But it is worth a look.

Anyway, neither of you teams of married people got that right, so we have to hear this case.

So, which one of you believes that dogs should be dressed up and made to make movies?

TC and Karen?

Okay, yes, you can also speak, because we're recording this.

That's a.

Not totally sure it's an accurate characterization, but yes.

Well, how would you characterize it?

Functional wear, coats, shoes.

Oh, okay.

As needed.

Okay.

And you have a dog?

Yes.

But you didn't bring it?

No.

What is the name of your dog?

Melody.

Melody.

And how old is your dog?

She's five.

And what kind of dog is she?

She's a pit bull mixed with three legs.

Oh, wow.

I thought you said a pit bull mixed with three legs.

It's a strange mutt.

Croning bird dog.

You know how those pit bulls sometimes mate with human legs?

Got it.

Well, she sounds wonderful.

And you like to put what, like a raincoat on her?

Her belly is bald.

She's got a bald belly.

She's a weird dog.

She's a little bit.

She's a little cold.

She gets cold?

Yeah.

So what do you do?

You take a blanket and you duct tape it around her midsection.

I think there's something available on the internet that I could kind of encircle her in for walks.

So you don't have something yet?

No, I tried to.

TC said it did not fit.

Yeah, TC said we can't buy any dog clothes until we get the approval of our lovers, Karen and Andy.

Actually, I was going to buy another one, and Andy said I had to wait.

Andy, you and Catherine are married.

No, no.

No, excuse me.

You are a couple?

No.

Just friends.

And we are just friends.

You and Andy are married.

Remember the key party aspect of this.

Excuse me, I thought that.

But Karen, you and D and T C are married.

No.

They're married to each other.

What the hell is going on?

What the heck is going on here?

So, Karen and Andy are

what you are on right now

is like the literal example of what they said would happen if gay marriage became legal.

Plus dogs.

Yeah.

There are literally men marrying dogs on this stage right now.

Okay.

Will the married couples.

Is there one married couple?

Two married couples.

In each of the two.

All right, you guys switch.

Okay, I got it.

Let the record show.

Okay, now kiss.

Let the record show that I just witnessed wife swapping

for the first time in my life on stage here in Philadelphia.

But you are on opposite sides.

So Andy...

and Karen, you are married in life, but on opposite sides of what should be done with your dog melody.

Is that correct?

That is correct.

All right.

Now, TC and Catherine are married.

You do all live together, though, in a geodesic dome

with a bunch of futons or whatever, and it's just a classic center-city cuddle puddle.

Is that what's going on?

Don't be ridiculous, Judge Hodgman.

It's a yurt.

It's a yurt.

All right, so Catherine and TC,

you wait a minute.

Now go back to your teams.

Andy?

Catherine, I don't understand what you're doing.

My absolute favorite part of this whole thing is the husbands hunched over slightly over the wives' shoulders makes them look like extras in a production of the music man.

Like they're all ready to just go trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble trouble.

I was in the music man.

Whoa.

What part did you play?

Tommy G-Less.

Do you remember any of it?

I remember Ad Living with a trombone at the end, but that was really it.

You had no lines?

Did you have a song?

Yeah,

I had one song, but I don't remember it now.

It was in 10th grade.

Of course you remember it.

I truly don't.

I really don't.

It was 10th grade.

I can't be real.

Here's what I want you to do.

Catherine, please stand up.

Andy, please sit down.

Now I can figure this out.

So there's a couple standing, there's a couple sitting, and really, right?

Solved it.

And really this dispute can only be between Karen and Andy because it's a dispute over their dog.

And what, now, now what?

Well, T C and Katie have a dog too, and they have a dispute with their dog.

TC and Katie.

Well, we'll get to you in a minute.

Wait, they have a dispute with

their dog?

What's the name of your dog, T.C.

and Katie?

We have a dog named Hoagie.

And Hoagie.

Do you also own a cat named On the Nose?

Is there a dispute with Hoagie that you do not want to follow its instructions to murder?

No, I just want to get a raincoat for Hoagie.

All right, you and Katie?

I do not.

All right.

Look, there are dogs that wear reindeer, I've seen it.

And greyhounds have to wear funny boots because there's something wrong with their paws.

They can't walk on salt or something like that.

And also,

people love to see greyhounds humiliated for some reason.

It's been part of our culture for a long time.

They're just such weird-looking, goofy dogs.

They're too fast.

Yeah, they have to be hobbled.

They can't.

They might just quicksilver out of there.

If you don't weigh them down, Harrison Bergeron style.

Now,

that was a couple of different references.

I had a big cup of coffee before I took the stand.

So, I know the argument for buying a raincoat for a dog.

I want to hear the argument for why your dog should get wet and suffer.

Andy, why should Melody not wear a raincoat?

So

it is Katie and my contention that every...

You know what?

I'm separating these two.

Okay, do you understand?

Because I'm too confused as a dish.

So it is my contention that after you have chosen to live with a dog and make it a part of your home and family, that everything you do after that is a preference.

So feeding the dog, watering the dog, walking the dog.

These are all things that we have chosen to do.

And I think that what Karen is saying.

In order to keep the dog alive.

Well, right, right, yeah.

It's not a preference.

Well, I mean, it's, we have, we prefer to have the dog be a part of our family.

So I.

You have the other option to not feed the dog or ever walk it, keep it in a locked room with a video camera on it and watch it.

But I think, though, that like that the argument to be made on the other side is that you're sort of deciding what is absolutely necessary.

And I'm saying that

the only thing that you've chosen, like after you've decided you want the dog, everything is a preference.

So, like, with my dog.

I feel like you're describing a sort of Ramsey Bolton scenario.

Well, so here's what I mean.

First of all, all right, this argument feels too philosophical and, frankly, sinister.

So Lur out of the seat, Katie, you're in.

This is tag team justice.

Katie,

why shouldn't Hoagie wear a raincoat?

I do not believe Hoagie should wear a raincoat.

We have a fairly distinctive breed.

He's a Bergamosco and has...

What, a what?

A Bergamosco.

It's an Italian sheepdog.

Oh.

An alpine sheepdog.

That sounds great.

They're great, but they also grow dreadlocks.

It's the way that their hair grows.

And so he is extremely distinctive and gets a lot of attention when we are out walking him in the streets of Philadelphia.

Some of the attention is great.

People want to know more about the dog, want to pet the dog, get to know the dog.

Some of the attention is very negative, and I really like.

Cat calling.

Hey, baby.

More like, you know, how dare you dread your dog's hair, things like that.

Because people don't know, people think.

Think that we've chosen to dread your hair.

Yeah.

It's true.

I could see how having people have the impression of you of taking a normal dog and trying to give it dreadlocks would make you be the worst human monster.

I definitely understand it.

But my husband, TCP.

By that logic, you should want to cover that dog up.

You should want to put it in

a giant cape that covers it.

But that's not what they look like.

That's not really what they look like, though, when they're in these raincoats.

It just makes them look weirder

and more distinctive and really, really stand out.

And TC receives generally positive feedback.

I receive much more of the negative feedback from people.

And so I'm.

That's interesting.

So, TC, your husband, when walking your weirdo-looking dog that you chose

gets positive feedback.

All right, Karen, you're out in TC.

Let's go.

Tag.

So,

like, when you walk down the street with

your Bob Marley dog, people say to you,

what?

So, we,

I can't believe these dogs aren't here.

This is our second Bergamasco.

Our last one died about a year ago.

Sorry to hear that.

Almost every time we walked the dog, somebody would see the dreadlocks and say either Bob Marley dog or Rasta dog.

And so with this dog,

we start counting how many times it occurs.

And we're inclined on the stage here to say that both Rastafarian dog from Jesse and Bob Marley dog from you, Judge, count toward our ongoing market.

I'm not sure the people of Philadelphia aren't familiar with some of the more deep cuts in the reggae performer world

because those are both on the nose like hoagie, you know what I mean?

So how often?

How often does he get called out?

Yeah, but yeah.

Multiple times a walk, every walk.

And for you, that's positive.

No.

Oh, but Katie just said that, TC, that you receive, it's a positive experience.

We have both had people call the ASPCA because they think we've done something terrible to the dog.

So

how did this become just

a case about your poor choice of dog?

What does this have to do anything with raincoats and dressing dogs up?

Well, so

our last dog, when

When it would rain outside,

we wouldn't be able to take him anywhere.

If he had a vet appointment or something like that, we'd have to cancel and reschedule it.

Because he's got a lot of hair.

Because it takes a while.

What happens when he's soaking wet?

It takes hours to dry him off.

And if he doesn't get fully dried off, he grows mold.

This is a very strange animal.

But I said,

a dog that can't get wet does seem perfectly suited to the Italian Alps.

I would just add, though, that Hoagie loves getting toweled off after it rains.

We did have a major rainstorm yesterday morning.

Right.

And it's his favorite thing in the world.

It may be a similar experience to being petted.

Right.

So

is there any grooming you can do to alleviate the unwanted attention and also mold

issues that you have with your dog?

Or is it just the way it is?

Would it help if you refrigerated your dog?

Their hair grows that way for a reason.

It protects their skin, so we choose not to take it off.

But you could give Hoagie a haircut.

You couldn't?

No, no.

No.

Because

his coat repels scissors.

So it repels a little bit of water and it repels snow nicely, but if you were to cut the hair, it would grow back in a way that could hurt the dog.

So he's great in the wintertime, he's lousy in the rain.

You know what's great about dogs?

Low maintenance.

So it's growing a very particular coat

that is designed to protect the dog and grow mold for nourishment

when alone in the Alps.

You want to cover it for your convenience, TC, but Katie, you do not want to cover it because you fear it will add to the unwanted attention that you may get.

Correct.

All right.

Got it.

Let's talk about melody now.

Andy?

Yeah.

Have you rethought your argument?

Well, no, I.

So the dog hates clothing.

The dog, from the moment we've gotten the dog, the dog has hated clothing.

The dog loves playing in the snow.

My feeling is, if the dog has expressed the preference, I want to.

Like, so you go out for a walk, you spend a little bit of time, then you come inside and you have a snuggle with the dog, and you're happier, and the dog is happier.

I also don't.

My dog also gets a lot of attention because she has three legs, and she carries around a stuffed animal in her mouth.

Always.

What is the stuffed animal?

What is her prey?

Her beloved prey.

Whatever is closest to her when I grab the leash.

So it could be a there's a novelty hot dog, a novelty corn cob.

There is a like a stuffed dog, a stuffed cat.

I'm looking at Karen.

What else?

The blue giraffe.

Oh, and there's a blue giraffe, zebra type thing.

So she gets a lot of attention, and I'm not...

My concern is...

She doesn't pick one.

She's not monogamous with one.

She's a snow like you think.

No, yeah.

Tea party with the stuffies.

But my concern would be that it would look like sort of a manipulative affectation if I were to dress up the dog in addition to the three legs and the stuffy.

Plus, she doesn't like it.

And I don't either.

How did she express her detaste for clothing in the past?

Did you try to dress her up, Karen?

So I bought her a coat that was too small.

Uh-huh.

So it didn't go around her.

So her preference was more like squished.

I'm not sure it was a preference.

She expressed so much of it.

She expressed her dissatisfaction with it by not being able to breathe and almost dying.

We didn't get to that point.

But I took it off fairly.

But that was the one experience?

Yeah, I've never seen her in anything else.

And you haven't tried an appropriately sized garment since then?

No.

All right.

Annie, you really care a lot about what people think about your dog and whether it's affected or not.

Well,

are you projecting?

Because you're wearing blue glasses frames right now.

In addition to all that, she is not great with other dogs, and so sometimes she gets her hackles up.

And if she's wearing clothing, I'm concerned that she would not be able to communicate to the other dogs, hey,

I'm hackled.

Hackles, if you don't know, a dog's hackles are its secret pincers on the back.

When threatened,

it grows a scorpion tail.

Certain breeds of dogs do this.

And you have an affidavit.

What is the name of your port of Moscow?

Matadoresco or what?

Bergamosco.

Romanesco?

Okay, yeah.

Putinesca dogs, which have very thick Rastafarian dreadlock hair, the scorpion tail can't get out.

And it can be...

It can be very dangerous

because it'll sting itself.

That's what a hackles is, just so you know.

Okay.

Practically speaking, Karen, what are you going to get out of putting a thing on your dog?

I just don't want her to be cold all winter.

I want her to be able to go on long walks in the wintertime.

How do you know that she's cold?

Well, she doesn't have much fur at all.

So actually, if she lays down on the concrete and the concrete is cooler, you can touch her belly and her little belly feels cold.

Oh.

You know.

It's very precious.

And she gets hot in the summer.

So all summer we've had to do short walks because she's heat intolerant per the bet.

Okay.

So I want her to go on long walks in the winter.

I think.

And may I presume that, do any of you have children?

No.

No.

Let the record show that my guess was correct.

So noted.

Are you

thinking about starting a family anytime soon, Karen?

No.

All right.

Katie, thinking about starting a family anytime soon?

Maybe.

Maybe.

All right.

All right, good.

As soon as that happens, none of these issues are going to be a problem anymore.

You're going to forget you have a dog.

All right, swap out again.

Double swap.

Katie, I just need to make sure I understand here.

It will be embarrassing to you to have a weird dreadlock dog with a raincoat on?

No.

Okay,

what's the issue?

The issue is I

do not appreciate getting yelled at by strangers for my dog.

Well, right, but wouldn't hiding Hoagie's shame help you?

I do not believe that the raincoats adequately hide the way he looks.

And also, you know.

What if you got Hoagie a waterproof,

full-body normal dog costume?

Like a lab costume.

Like a hide in plain sight sort of thing.

Chocolate lab for Halloween.

I'll check Amazon for that.

Why will having the raincoat on the dog attract more abuse to you than just having this weird old dog with mold in its hair?

Because it's just more attention to the dog.

I'm not sure everyone.

Have you tried it?

We have not tried it.

I see.

Okay.

All right.

Obviously, if you win, no raincoat.

And Karen, if you win, then a raincoat.

Any other outfits?

Halloween costumes?

Anything else I need to know before I go into my chambers?

Go ahead, Andy.

There's also the matter of footies on the paws.

Footies on the paws?

Yeah.

So the claim is that

the salt from the roads is bad for the paws, which I concede on the long term.

But wouldn't it be better if the dog just got a rub down and you

used a towel on the dog's paws instead of making the dog wear ridiculous?

Let me turn to the mob on that one.

Is there anyone here who owns a greyhound who has to wear those little things?

No.

Does anyone here know what I'm talking about?

All right.

Are greyhounds.

Has anyone here ever raced in the Iditterod?

Are greyhounds specifically more susceptible to paw damage from salt than other breeds?

So it's all across the...

All right, all across the canine world, dogs are wearing footies.

That's the first lyrics of some song, I think.

You don't want your dog to wear booties because.

They look ridiculous, she hates it, and I don't think that it's actually going to damage the dog if you go on a walk and then wipe off the salt when you get back.

Right.

Which I would happily do.

Right.

Katie would as well.

But we can get your dog a pair of attention-getting blue eyeglasses frames.

Hey, I think they look great.

Thank you.

They cost $8.

But you know, when you're talking about, you're worried about the dog coming across as pretentious, that's like the pot calling

that's the pot calling the kettle a little affected.

All right, I got it, I got it, I got it.

And if I and I rule in your favor, TC,

no, wait a minute, you guys, I got all confused again.

Right.

Anyway,

I think I have everything.

I've drawn a little chart here of your relationships,

your various facial hair configurations, and so forth.

I I think I've got you all straight.

I have what I need in order to make my decision.

I'm going to go into my doghouse and do my deliberations.

I'll be back in a moment with my decision.

Please rise metaphorically as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

I can't claim to remember what your names are.

So I'm going to refer to you by interest group.

Pro-clothing group.

How cute would the clothing be?

And I'm going to give you an example here.

I bought a trench coat for my dog Coco

that made her look like a little detective.

I'm not proposing that the clothing be cute necessarily.

I think the dogs are adequately cute, cute, and I don't want to cause any discomfort to my spouse, whom I love.

I'm not opposed to that.

You mean discomfort from excessive cuteness?

That's right.

He's very sensitive.

Uh-huh.

Cute glasses, by the way.

For the against dogs camp here.

No, I think just against dog clothing.

Oh, okay, sorry.

I guess in my imagination, because I watched that little movie on John's phone, all dogs wear clothes.

For the against dog clothes, Cam.

What's the harm?

Well, in our affidavit, we had our dog walker actually say that if you add clothes to dogs, they're not able to communicate with each other with dog body language and identifying whether or not they're upset or if they want to have more interest in the other dogs.

And so I think that particularly for Melody, who can sometimes be a little cornery, this will kind of

be a problem if she is feeling aggressive and the other dog doesn't realize that because she has a sweatshirt on.

Will Hoagie ever get a brother or sister, and why will it be named Wawa?

Or will it be called Little Debbie Snack Cakes?

Okay, I'm done.

We'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say as he re-enters the courtroom.

You may be seated, and please sit next to your spouses.

If you remember who your spouses are

All right.

Let the record show that seated before me are TC and Katie, the companions to Hoagie,

a strange breed of dog.

I've never heard of this magical beast

that grows dreadlocks and mold and mushrooms in its fur.

and causes people to yell at you as you walk down the street.

Is this one of those dogs you can only see if you've witnessed someone dying firsthand?

Some sort of strange demon ghost dog.

I'm going to rule separately on these two cases because every dog is different,

and

this one is decidedly different.

In this case, it's very interesting to me that you

not only have a dog that attracts such unwanted attention and people call the authorities on you and you go to dog jail

or potentially go to dog jail but that you that you already had one of these dogs and presumably had gone through this experience and you chose to have another I presume that's because you really love this particular breed of dog and you also love negative attention from your fellow citizens

Maybe, Katie, that's why on some level you don't want to cover up your dog's weird coat because you want people to yell at you?

I don't think so.

I think in this case that it's very rare that I look around

the dogs on the streets of Brooklyn where I live and those that are wearing clothes, I say to myself, that's a good look.

It's very rare.

Nor do I look around and see dogs wearing sweaters and coats and deer stalker caps and whatever else they're wearing and think that's necessary.

But it seems to me that your dog has such a special situation and such a strange coat that needs to be protected and kept clean and cannot be cut or else it might come to life on its own.

I don't know what other weird things are going on with this particular breed of dog, but it does seem to me that this is a situation where much like someone who has dreadlocks, care needs to be taken with the hair.

And so I'm not sure that you convinced me that covering the dog with some sort of waterproofing would increase the amount of negative attention you got.

And you haven't tried it, so I don't know if there's an argument akin to what Andy is saying, that Hoagie himself won't go for it.

So in this case, I'm ordering a trial period of a barber waxed cotton covering that you can get for dogs.

That's a British brand of hunting jacket, very high-end.

I like the barber wax.

Is it wax cotton?

Yeah, it's a wax cotton.

It's a wax cotton.

It's got, you know how sheep give off lanolin?

And maybe your dog does too.

Maybe your, does, does your dog's coat secrete a waxy coating of any kind?

In any case,

this is a very weird, waxy fabric that they use for hunting jackets in England, and I like it because it's thorn-proof, and I didn't even know that it was, I'm not buzz marketing it, I just didn't know it was available until I started searching up dog clothes today.

And I'm like, one of these dogs is going to be wearing that.

And it could not be more perfect than for Hoagie.

So that's where I rule for Hoagie.

I find in favor of TC.

That's the sound of that gavel.

Now.

Now we have Karen and Andy, who this case I find to be a little bit more psychologically interesting because,

you know,

you get a dog dog for companionship you get a dog for all kinds of reasons and and some people get dogs as personal expression

an expression of their own sensibility and style and I kind of feel like you're in that camp Andy I kind of feel like

no no

look

well I

In both of these cases, there's a lot of discussion of what other people are going to think about your dog and how to, in the case of TC and Katie, mitigate the abuse they get on the street.

And in your case, you're worried that people are going to think your dog is a pretentious jerk,

if it's carrying around a blue giraffe, oh really, a blue giraffe and a little coat?

A pocket square and a boutonnier?

Come on.

Whereas of the two of you, Karen is the only one who's going like, our dog is cold and needs to be warmer.

However, this is a situation in which you have tried putting a piece of clothing on the dog before, and it did not have, it had adverse consequences.

And so, I think that

it is reasonable

if your dog has a bald belly, And you really want to keep that belly warm, you can get an appropriately sized garment.

And it has to be okayed by Andy, because he knows how to put a dog look together.

You know what I mean?

Right?

It can't look dumb.

It's got to all work.

Do you know what I mean?

The whole thing's got to work.

And I'm going to do a moratorium on booties and just let your dog walk in the salt all winter long so that for one year.

And so a year from now, when your dog's paws are ruined and you have to go to the vet, then Andy will finally realize he doesn't know everything.

But then, but I may be clear that I am finding a trial basis only.

If indeed Andy is correct, and he may be because he knows his dog and he loves his dog Melody, and Melody is not having it with that thing, don't make her wear that thing.

This is the sound of a gabble.

Number two, Judge Sean Hodgman rules that is all.

Ladies and gentlemen, Andy, Catherine, Karen T C,

thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

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Judge Hodgman, you know, we could prattle on all night, or we could introduce our brilliant musical guests.

We do, we should.

We have a very brilliant musical guest.

Those of you who saw my comedy special, Ragnarok, were introduced to one of my very favorite singers and songwriters in the world, a woman named Cynthia Hopkins, whose music is very dear to me.

And I've listened to it constantly for now almost an entire decade.

And I already feel like I wish it were 25 to 35 years, which is of course my age.

I'm 25 to 35.

Let's just say that.

She's got the most incredible voice and she writes the most incredible songs.

And you're lucky because she recently moved to Philadelphia and loves it here.

And so this is a welcome home of a sorts for Cynthia Hopkins, and I hope you will join me in greeting her now.

Ladies and gentlemen, Cynthia Hopkins.

Video Kel, the radio star,

video kill,

the radio star,

video kill,

the radio

star

And that's all I can remember

of that song,

I know that I could look it up

using the interwar.

But sometimes memory

is so much better than

what gets written down and recorded as

history,

such as

video killed the radio star.

You guys want to sing it with me a couple times?

Video kill the radio star,

video kill the radio star,

video kill the radio star.

But you already

know

that

Dead and you

you heard it on the interwere you

seen it all before

But what is happening

remains a mystery

even

for the author

of

it all

Radio killed

radio star

star

radio

star

What would it sound like?

Could you guys sing just video killed the radio star just like three more times

and just so I can sing over the top of you?

Here we go.

Video killed the radio.

Radio star

killed the radio.

Radio star.

Radio star.

Thank you for singing.

That's Cynthia Hopkins, ladies and gentlemen.

We'll hear a little bit more from her later.

And you want to check out all of her music.

She's got so many great albums and everything else.

And she also does a podcast here from Philadelphia about moving to Philadelphia and interviewing people here in Philadelphia.

It's all on CynthiaHopkins.com.

Isn't that right, Jesse?

That's absolutely correct.

In fact, she booked Dr.

Hicks while we were sitting backstage.

That's right.

Speaking over and a shaker.

Dutch Hodman, why don't we bring out our next guest on the program?

I think that would be wonderful.

Why don't you go ahead and do that?

Well, you saw him at the top of tonight's show.

He's a great friend of this court, the director of the Mutter Museum and Historical Medical Library, and our expert witness tonight.

Please welcome Dr.

Robert Hicks.

Hello, Dr.

Hicks.

How are you, sir?

I am doing fine.

The last time I saw you, you were handing me a jar full of flakes of human skin.

I aim to please.

Now, this is the first time I have met you in person, Dr.

Robert Hicks.

First of all, I am so excited that you dressed as an old-timey undertaker today.

Could not have been more perfect for what I imagine the director of the Mutter Museum to dress as.

And I'm so thrilled.

The museum has been

such a touchstone destination for me here in Philadelphia.

It tempts my imagination and tests my stomach every time I go and visit it.

But we only spoke on the phone when you called in as an expert witness on a case where a husband wanted to take his dead dog's body, bleach its bones,

and articulate them into a skeleton himself.

And you argued very persuasively that this was a terrible idea.

I still think so.

And how did you come to be the director of the museum?

Were you always a curator?

No, I've had a couple of careers.

I've actually retired from law enforcement.

I've been a naval officer, but to get this job was easy.

I just

sat out in the sidewalk with a sign that says, Will direct museum for food.

And that was it.

Wait a minute.

What branch of law enforcement did you serve in?

The good kind.

How did you make the transition truly into directing a museum?

Oh, all these things are related.

Yes, I'm just asking you to elaborate the connections.

Always been fascinated with things, museums, things that tell stories.

But as far as museum things are concerned, law enforcement is right in line with the Moon Museum of Forensic Science, for example.

And when you,

on your workday, do you get to

roam the museum after hours?

Anytime I want.

Do you?

Sure.

I just don't sleep there overnight.

Why?

Because you're chicken?

I know what crawls on the floor at night.

I have some of them in jars in my office.

Really?

You have an infestation?

You may not want this to be on the radio.

It's an old building.

Philadelphia's an old town.

Things walk in.

So how long have you been have you been the director there?

A bit over eight years.

And it's quite a legacy to inherit.

I really feel like the museum has become much more

proactive in its programming and getting,

well, children in?

Oh, yes, we have lots of fun with children.

Yes, yes, yes, there are some in jars, that's true.

When our curator had her first, possibly only child,

she

duly catalogued him as a specimen.

So he is technically property of the museum, and we can recall him for exhibition when we please.

Dr.

Hicks, do you just respond to like any mention of a noun with yes, yes, yes, we have some in jars?

We have a diverse collection.

Aunt Beth, Aunt Judy, Aunt Jane, Aunt Susan, have any of you ever been to the Mutter Museum?

So

for those

For those in the front row and those listening who may not know the museum, why don't you describe the collection a little bit, please?

It's the place that is disturbingly informative.

You can literally see what you cannot see anywhere else inside your bodies when bodies go wrong.

It's a medical history museum.

We have scientific breakthroughs happening.

We have science projects.

We're not just an old cabinet of curiosities, but a vibrant place with a very large collection.

And we're probably the most significant museum of our kind in the United States.

So we can, you see things you cannot see anywhere else.

Bring your kids.

I feel like you're dancing a little bit around the fact that it's a bunch of skulls.

No, no, no.

There's a bunch of skulls and divisions.

There's also kidney stones.

And your favorite megacolon.

That's right.

Everyone,

you come for the full body cast of Chang Yanang, the original Siamese twins, you stay for the megacolon.

That's right.

It's a collection, a historical collection of specimens of

physical bodies gone wrong.

Pathological interest.

It's a pathological anatomy collection.

But we have instruments, we have models,

beautiful sculptures in wax,

obviously a lot of specimens.

If people come to the museum and see something that looks exquisitely human or part of a human in a jar with liquid, it's the real thing.

If it's not,

if there's no liquid, it's an exquisite wax model.

So it's artistry as well as science.

Yes.

Dr.

Hicks, the museum's been operating continuously for quite a long time, right?

Since 1863.

And originally, this was primarily not so much a public exhibition as a way to study medicine, at least as it existed in the late 19th century.

Yes, and that continues to be true.

The specimens are used for study.

We have physicians come and study specimens to gain insights into the diseases that afflict us right now.

Which of the items at the museum upsets you personally the most?

That's easy.

We have a skeleton of a man named Harry Islak who had a very, very rare disease abbreviated FOP.

Now, this is a genetic trigger that tells your muscles and connective tissue to stop making more of the same, and instead making bone.

So, you have a perfectly normal skeleton, and you begin to grow a second skeleton over it.

It eventually will suffocate you.

And this is the real terror.

There is no cure.

There's no way to stop it.

If a surgeon opens you up to remove that excess bone, it brings it back more aggressively.

It is a truly nightmare disease.

Now, Dr.

Hicks, this I think is the natural follow-up question.

Would anyone have laughed had I interrupted you to ask if FOP stood for fash-out posse?

Or, in view of my law enforcement, for turnal order of police.

There you go.

But it's fibrodysplasia, ossificans, progressiva, and I have practiced that.

Well, you are great at advising a man not to bleach his dog's bones and turn it into a toy.

And we have some friends of the podcast here from Philadelphia who appeared earlier on the podcast, who have a fascination with skeletons and taxidermy.

And maybe we can welcome them to the stage.

Jesse, can you explain?

Yes, so in episode 94, we presented bleached and mounted bones of contention.

Our litigants were Nick and Sarah.

They're here with us tonight.

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Nick and Sarah.

Hello.

Hi.

Now, in this case, Judge Hodgman, you may recall that

Nick expressed an interest in collecting skeletons and taxidermied animals.

He brought his wife Sarah to court because she wanted him to limit his collection.

You ultimately ruled that he could have five skeletons and one taxidermied animal.

You ordered him a grab bag of skulls to get his collection started.

Oh, yes.

From Skulls Unlimited in Oklahoma City, my favorite one-stop shop for articulated skeletons and human bone specimens.

Exactly.

And then I had recently received in the mail two very, very, very profoundly unwanted, unwanted, stuffed

rodent creatures,

which I had named the nightmare gerbils.

They were so named not after the legendary Nazi,

as has often been asked since then, but rather after the time that my hamster got out when I was a child.

And a few days later, my father brought me upstairs to the living room, sat me down, and said, Jesse, I have some bad news.

Last night I stepped on your gerbil.

These taxidermed

gerbils, or whatever they were, squirrels, I think, originally, in life.

Not squirrels.

They were ground squirrels, maybe.

Dr.

Hicks, have you ever seen taxidermy go horribly wrong, such that the creature no longer looks like a squirrel and now looks like a nightmare gerbil?

Oh, yes, the photograph on your website from this very case.

Well, what's remarkable about them, and we'll get into this, is that they only got worse, but we should bring Nick and Sarah into this conversation.

All right, Nick and Sarah.

Hello again.

Hello.

So, Sarah, when I ordered your husband to start bringing skeletons into the house, were you very disappointed?

I didn't like to lose.

Right.

Yeah.

But how has it been?

What have you collected, Nick?

What have you brought in, aside from the grab bag of skulls and the nightmare gerbil?

Absolutely nothing.

What?

I found in your favor, you just wasted it?

He's into Pokemon Google.

I would say about.

So we,

well, first me and then her became, I guess, sort of ethical vegetarians.

Oh, I could see how that might happen.

I know, yeah.

That and taxidermy might not go paw in paw.

So

my collection is limited to now four skulls of the ones that you gave me because I gave one of them to my nephew.

So I have four remaining small skeletons provided by you, and the nightmare gerbil is no longer with us.

Right.

Well, so first of all, let's talk about the skulls.

I ordered a grab bag of skulls and did not know what skulls would be included.

I've been wondering ever since.

Can you tell me what skulls you got?

They were like voles and field mice, like very, very small field rodents.

Basically, bar basement skulls

tell you telling me I spent that money on a bag of vol skulls

you did look I love you skulls unlimited of Oklahoma City Oklahoma but you have got to up your game that

I don't need that those vol skulls that's filler skulls we all know that

but I mean even if it had been four vol skulls and one tiger skull that would have been fair that would have been

that would have been an incredible table setting.

And the taxidermy that you got was Jesse sending you one of these nightmare gerbils, right?

He did, yes.

And I presume that it still holds a place of honor in your home.

Can I?

Can I?

Okay.

So I was terrified of it.

Could you perhaps describe what it looked like to the best of your ability upon its arrival?

I mean, nightmare is really.

it was a squirrel

kind of

frozen and terrified in time.

Can you, look, I realize that for those listening at home, this is a non-visual medium.

And here we are in front of this great audience in Philadelphia.

Maybe you could do your best imitation of it.

Well, so he's all stretched out.

I don't know if I can.

Stand up there.

Just do your best.

He was very surprised, right?

Right, go ahead.

But then he was also like ready to attack.

Yeah.

So I don't know if I can combine the two, but I'll.

Just say, just turn around for a second.

Take a moment.

Just turn around, get into your character.

This is a very good thing.

And remember, the most important thing in

acting school.

The most important thing in acting is to commit.

You want to make strong choices and commit.

So I don't want to see any half-ass nightmare squirrel stuff there.

I'll tell you what, I saw a picture of this thing.

So I'm going to do it, and we're both going to do it.

And then between the two of us,

how about this, Judge Hodgman?

I'll have the two of you turn your backs to the audience

right now,

and then I will count one, two, three, turn, and each of you will turn and give your impression of the nightmare gerbil.

Are you prepared?

Okay, thumbs up.

One, two, three, turn.

From now on, I have to stay in that character for the rest of the show.

It's part of my method.

How close were we?

Were we close?

Did we look?

Because I want to, I feel like it was a real look that that gurgle was given.

Now, I think that you, from my perspective, you really captured the kind of sickening terror that comes from having seen it

in the condition that it was when I sent it to you.

Right.

Which was, I mean, to be fair, mint condition for a nightmare gerbil.

Yeah.

Mint condition nightmares.

Yeah.

Judge John Hodgman's follow-up to his heavy metal album, Nightmare Gerbel.

It was Beckett Graded 9.

And does it still occupy a place of honor in your home?

So, you know, there was another Nightmare Gerbil, and I don't know what happened to it, but what happened to our Gerber.

It was given away in an essay contest.

So what what happened to our nightmare gerbil

shortly after we received it um

as most terrifying things do it started losing its hair

and then it quickly shed all of its hair

and then it sat in our house for

and then also any all of the sort of soft tissue bits right started to disintegrate so it it had ears that then became just holes and it had eyes that became holes

and it sat there

where was it in your house prominently displayed in the living room

what would guests say upon seeing this beautiful sight um my niece liked to play with it so she would like put it on her shoulder

and go ah

but we we we didn't have a lot of guests

it's weird people would come over once but then

i kind of envision you guys looking at this thing as it became more and more decrepit and then one day just like staring into the abyss of its ear holes and saying to each other quietly,

we have to become vegetarians.

Well, we finally, we moved about six weeks ago.

To get away from it?

Yeah.

Pretty much.

I don't know what happened.

They were there one night, then in the middle of the night, they jumped into their van and they never came back.

They left the lights on.

When you sold your old house, did you have to sign a disclosure form that said that it was built on a Gerbal burial ground?

Well, we left it there at the old house.

So that's where it is?

It's still there.

Do you know if the new owners have done anything with it?

Okay.

Have you ever drive by at night here in the window?

I'm worried that it's going to find us in our new house.

So

quick, I want to get to the bottom of this, this, and it's a good thing you're here, Dr.

Hicks, because Jesse Thorne, how long did you have that nightmare gerbil before we sent it over to Nick and Sarah?

Too long.

I'm going to say a month.

A month.

A month.

Immediately upon receiving it, I was concocting schemes to unreceive it,

such as essay contests

and unloading it and cursing a young couple in Philadelphia with it.

All right, Dr.

Hicks, you heard about the degradation of this taxidermied rodent.

What did Nick and Sarah do wrong?

Because I blame them.

How does one maintain a specimen such that it lasts longer than the month that they had or whatever?

Well, first of all, since I am the expert witness, I have to declare here and now it wasn't a gerbil, it's a squirrel and a greatly deformed and twisted one.

Would you like it for your museum?

Only if it's a pathological interest.

Just the fact that it scares kids, we could do that on our own.

All right.

But do you feel that there was something, and I'm just going to say that it was Nick and Sarah's fault, that they did something wrong in the care of their specimen?

Or what should one do when one receives a nightmare squirrel gerbil to make sure it stays in good condition?

The taxidermy is an art form.

People who do it well are sculptors.

Whoever did yours did it anonymously and it was trash.

And they did it.

anonymously like under cover of night somebody somebody thought perhaps perhaps it was the man in the course in the in the case in which I consulted earlier who wanted to dig up his dog and deflesh it and stuff it and present it it's that bad a job yeah from somebody who doesn't know what they're doing and so it was the artist's fault not the owner's fault I think there's a bit of fault attaching to the owner here

and for this reason all right because I've listened to the original case thank you and this all started with an interest in collecting, an interest in exploring mortality, the natural world, learning through the specimens and through the taxidermy.

It's been almost three years since that case.

I'm appalled to find that there's no true collecting spirit here.

They haven't done anything except house the specimen.

Now they just collect tofu and quinoa.

Yes.

Pretty much.

They haven't even acquired a standard colon, much less a mega colon.

True collectors

would have recognized that as a poor specimen, got rid of it, educated themselves, and started getting the really fine stuff.

Well, it is interesting that you changed your mind, Nick.

I mean, you really seemed interested in getting some skulls up in your house.

And now, all of a sudden, you're like, just a salad for me, please.

Did you?

What prompted the change in your lifestyle?

It was a few different things.

One of the incidences was I, on my commute, I used to regularly walk by an agricultural high school that kept cattle.

And I saw those cattle too many times.

And I found...

I don't think anyone was asking you to keep a stuffed cow in your house.

Well, I mean,

wherever these animals are coming from,

the skeletons and the taxidermy, presumably they were...

Apparently they're just coming from the vol farm.

Yeah.

But they weren't.

Those animals presumably didn't die of natural causes, right?

So I'm indirectly supporting the unnecessary killing of animals where I to collect these things.

If I were to find you probably could have figured that out when you called into my podcast, but at that point you were like, I want to be, I want to have bones.

But at that point, it wasn't like an ethical quandary for me.

It became that later.

By walking past that agricultural system.

Yeah.

You just had a conversion experience.

I did.

And Sarah, were you always a vegetarian?

Absolutely not.

I'm actually, what I like to say, a reluctant vegetarian.

We had a baby last year on the 4th of July.

Oh, and I really like, I don't want to hurt anything now that I'm a mom.

Oh, now that you have a baby, you realize that.

Like, everything has a mom, right?

It took me 32 years, but yeah.

Well, first of all, congratulations.

Hey, thanks.

What's the name of your baby?

His name is Casper Ray.

Casper Ray?

Not 4th of July baby?

No.

Oh, that's what I would have named it.

And so, Joe Judgment, Judgment, that's how you ended up with two children named September 26th and March 14th.

Well, you know what?

It helps me remember.

Well, it's really wonderful to see you guys again.

Do you have any new disputes that

since it turns out you wasted my time with that skull dispute because you immediately became a vegetarian afterwards?

I want to dress our baby up as a war boy from Fury Road for Halloween.

I rule in your favor.

Witness me.

Ladies and gentlemen, Nick and Sarah, thank you so much for joining us.

From the Buddha Museum, Dr.

Robert Hooks.

Dr.

Robert Hicks, excuse me.

Thank you so much, Dr.

Hicks.

Hi, I'm Alexis.

I'm one of the co-hosts of Comfort Creatures, and I'm here with River Jew, who has been a member since 2019.

Thank you so much for being a listener and a supporter of our show.

Yeah, I can't believe it's been that long.

Yeah, right?

As the Max Fund member of the month.

Can I ask what sort of made you decide to be a member?

I used to work in a library, so I just used to listen to podcasts while I reshelved all the books.

Really helped with doing being at work.

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Yeah.

It feels good to be part of that.

As the member of the month, you will be getting a $25 gift card to the Maximum Fun store, a member of the month bumper sticker, and you also, if you're ever in Los Angeles, you can get a parking spot at the Max Fun HQ just for you.

Yay!

I'm actually going to LA September, so I'll get to use the parking.

Yes!

Thank you so much, River, for doing this.

This has been an absolute blast.

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I've been so glad to be able to talk to you too, and I'm so excited to be a member of the month.

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Become a MaxFun member now at maximumfund.org slash join.

Hey, everybody, I'm Jeremy.

I'm Oscar.

I'm Dimitri.

And we are the Euroevangelists.

We're a weekly podcast spreading the word of the Eurovision Song Contest, the most important music competition in the world.

Maybe you already heard Glenn Weldon of NPR's pop culture happy hour talk up our coverage of this year's contest.

But what do we talk about in the offseason?

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There are nearly seven decades of pop music history to cover.

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Okay, cool.

We have a limited period of time left, and we really need to bring justice to Philadelphia.

You all know this is a lawless land, and

I have put on my ride-in-the-circuit frontier lawman hat in order to get you guys in order.

So, we have some other litigants lined up.

We have exactly 20 minutes to hear their cases.

And if we go through fast, we're going to turn it out to the mob.

And if you have any cases, you can raise your hand then.

And if we're truly lucky, Cincinnati Reds' first baseman Joey Vado is here in the audience tonight.

That

sports thing went over over my head?

It was from our podcast!

Oh, is that size 7 women's or whatever?

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

I remember things.

Size 6 women's, right?

Yeah.

Is the heckler here tonight?

No?

Good.

Are you guys booing him for not coming?

If so, I mean, good work.

Let's move on.

Yeah.

Let's bring up our first case for Swift Justice, George and Jerry.

As quickly as you can, gentlemen, this is Swift Justice.

What is your case?

Speak directly to the microphone.

I'm setting the timer on justice

now.

Go.

So a couple years ago, I had gastric sleeve surgery, and as a result, I can't really eat and drink at the same time.

It makes me sick.

So when we...

So you just have a liquid for breakfast and then a solid for lunch?

Is that what's going on?

No, usually if like if I've eaten something, I have to wait like 15, 20 minutes, maybe even a little longer before I have something to drink.

And so when we go out like drinking, like alcohol,

sometimes, especially when I first got the surgery, it was a little tough to find the correct timing

where I wasn't basically drinking on an empty stomach,

but I would still be able to drink.

And so,

especially at the beginning, you know, finding that balance.

By the way, this is Philadelphia.

I'm really glad a drinking issue came up.

Always.

My pleasure.

So

basically...

Jerry,

even to this day, now that I have gotten much more of a handle on the timing, Jerry,

he mothers me, for lack of a better word.

Sure.

And

even when I tell him that I have had something to eat and I am not drinking on an empty stomach, and no, Jerry, I won't be leaving early because I'm too tired,

he gives me disapproving looks and doesn't believe me.

And frankly, I would like it to stop.

He's trying to get you to eat?

Right.

Well, he basically wants to make sure that

Jerry, what's your friend talking about?

He's misrepresenting my views a little bit.

I see.

In that,

so yes, I am trying to get him to eat because obviously drinking in an empty stomach is not good.

Right.

And since he can only either drink or eat,

sometimes he decides to only drink because he will pregame our pregames,

by which I mean he'll come over to my house with the express intent to come enjoy alcoholic beverages, but he will drink beforehand, thus ensuring that he has to drink in an empty stomach because he can't eat then before he comes.

You're drinking in order to drink more, in order to trick yourself out of eating so you can drink more.

Well, the problem is that I am pretty far away from Jerry's house, and so by the time I get there, people are already several in.

And you know, I want to make sure that we're not too far behind.

With all due respect, the problem is that you, sir, are ruining your life through alcoholism.

What are your ages?

I'm 23.

23?

I am also 23.

Well.

I would also just like to add that there's a reason that I don't go out drinking with my mother, and that's because I don't want to have to worry about somebody watching me all the time and worrying about what I'm doing.

Is that the only reason you don't go out drinking with your mother?

Yes.

Otherwise, it will be on.

What I'm unclear on here is whether Jerry is mothering you in order to make sure that you have enough food so you don't get sick from drinking or stop or he's mothering you and trying to get you to eat food so that you can drink more and more and more and more Jerry which is it

a little bit of both yeah

I'm not sure how much concern you have for your friend's safety or how much concern you have for keeping it going all night long there is quite a bit of concern for his safety okay good and I think I would be concerned because you obviously have some gastrointestinal stuff going on.

It can't be healthy to be drinking on an empty stomach.

Like I said,

a lot of this was from when I had first gotten the surgery.

I've since gotten much more of a grip on the timing and being able to handle it and making sure that I have spaced out my intake appropriately.

But the problem is, and my real issue here, is not the fact that Jerry is concerned for my safety, it's the fact that when I tell him that I have eaten, and this happens now,

is that he doesn't believe me and still gives me grief the entire night.

To act out the grief.

Pretend you're Jerry and

he's you.

George, did you have anything to eat before you came over?

And then he said,

I said yes.

And then when I say yes, he goes, mm-hmm.

Okay.

Okay.

That's a pretty accurate impression of me.

You, by necessity, have to organize your life to some degree around eating and timing your eating and your liquid intake.

Sure, this isn't even just about alcohol.

Like I had to figure figure that out through the future.

Well, let me make sure I understand.

When you say you can't eat and drink at the same time, do you mean you can't drink anything or you can't drink alcohol?

No, I mean, it's if you know that there are other liquids.

I am aware.

I have been told.

I'm not necessarily familiar with them, but I have been told.

If you travel to Boston, New York, other cities in the region, you'll find that people drink other liquids.

No, the issue, it's not even really that I can't, it's just that it makes me uncomfortable, like the food, you know, bloats a little bit, and.

But that's any liquid.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

So you are in a situation where you have to take extreme care and organize your life to some degree around your eating habits and your eating patterns and your eating schedule, right?

Yes.

And you are at the age when a lot of people organize their lives around how quickly and fast they can get drunk.

But you cannot organize your life you should stop organizing your life around when you drink and how long you can drink for unfortunately

you especially have to be extra careful and there's no way on earth I'm going to upgrade your friend for making sure that you take care of yourself.

So guess what?

We're all your mother now.

Take care of yourself.

I rule in favor of Jerry.

George and Jerry.

Our next let against Annie and Phil.

Annie and Phil, please approach.

You may be seated.

Now, what is the problem here?

Ann and I are aspiring but currently non-practicing beekeepers.

An aspiration shared by many.

Yeah.

Last winter, we...

Let me give you some advice.

With beekeeping, you just have to get your work out there.

You know what I mean?

Like...

Yeah,

you might have a day job for a while, but you're going to have to beekeep at night.

You're going to have to get up in the early morning and beekeep.

You're going to have to beekeep even on your birthday.

And for a long time,

you're gonna be rejected a lot for your beekeeping.

People are gonna be saying no.

But in beekeeping, as in all the arts, persistence is almost more important than talent.

If you just keep keeping, eventually you're gonna be a beekeeper.

All right.

I really appreciate those words of encouragement.

I have to say, we joined the Beekeeping Guild

of the city of Philadelphia

last year.

When you say you joined the Beekeeping Guild, do you mean in real life or in a massively multiplayer online role-playing game?

That's in real life.

That's right.

So

it...

What's the problem?

Okay.

So

I do appreciate hearing about all your professional accreditations, but what is the dispute you're having about the bees?

Okay, so we live in several places.

I live in the country outside of Philadelphia and she lives in the city.

In Fishtown.

In Fishtown, great.

And what is your relationship?

We're dating.

You're dating.

Okay.

And where do you want to keep the bees?

In Fishtown?

Fishtown Bees?

This is the dispute.

She'd like to keep them in Fishtown.

I'd like to keep them in the country.

Yeah, you know what?

You're dating.

You're not married.

You can keep your own separate bees.

Well, this is the problem because we joined the guild together and we'd like to have beekeeping as a shared hobby.

And seeing as how we spend more of our time in the city,

and I own my house in the city, I have a small yard.

Urban beekeeping is kind of

so I would like to keep bees in my backyard and I would like it to be a joint venture between the two of us.

And why is that?

What a wonderful gesture, Phil.

What's the problem?

Well, I think initially our thought was that the countryside was a bucolic, beautiful place to have some bees

and

that perhaps the backyard of

a fishtown house, which was fairly small.

What are the complications for having bees in the backyard?

The neighbors are going to get stung?

Neighbors might get well, might you know, are they still not going to get stung bees?

But they might be

nervous about it.

Are they hurdy bees or are they non-herdy bees?

I maintain that they're gentle creatures that won't be aggressive towards the neighbors.

I think I agree with that.

Well, you know what?

You'll eventually find out.

Yeah.

There's also the matter of using...

How long have you guys been dating?

About a year.

Okay, it's much, much too early for you to be trying to control her life this way.

And

get that beehive in your backyard.

Suffer the consequences of your neighbors getting stung.

Eventually you might realize you have to move out to the country, but you've got to give it a try.

Phil, you can keep your own hive out there.

You can have your side piece out there in the country.

You know what I mean?

But right now, you guys got to do your own thing.

Bees and fish town.

Annie and Phil, Molly and Jimmy are our next litigants.

Step up to the microphones, please.

Immediately, right now.

We're doing it fast.

No, seriously.

For all the ambling time, you're denying other people justice.

And thank you for dressing up, sir.

You're welcome.

You're welcome.

Okay, what are your names?

And Molly.

And Jimmy.

Jimmy?

Yeah.

And what is your dispute?

And Jimmy, you really want to talk, so let's go.

Well, she has the problem with me, but I, okay, so I'll be talking about that.

Okay, Molly.

Oh, okay, I know what this is about.

Yeah.

Molly, explain.

I would like him to never wear this hat with me in public.

Jimmy, can you describe the hat?

Jimmy, can you describe the hat?

Sure, I could put it on too, if you want.

Let the record reflect that Jimmy is selling the hat with a sort of 1950s sitcom child grin.

It is, let the record show that it is a bucket hat, sort of like a Gilligan's Island hat, though instead of sailor white, it's sort of puke green.

And it's got, what is the logo on it that you're buzz marketing?

Bush Gardens.

Bush Gardens.

There are two pins on the hat.

One's for Apollo's chariot, and the other's for Jamestown, Virginia.

Where did you get the hat and why is it important to you?

My parents got it for me in sixth grade at Busch Gardens.

How long have you guys been dating?

We've been married for a year.

Excuse me.

Did he wear the hat during the ceremony?

I did have a friend wear it.

He brought it to the wedding.

Ha ha ha!

She didn't know.

And surprised me with passing it around our friends.

Would you describe the hat as your lovey?

Or your wubby?

Both.

Oh.

You had met him before you married him, right?

Because I'm telling you right now, Jimmy makes a very strong impression.

As soon as he gangly walked and smiled onto my stage,

wearing shorts and sandals after dark in Philadelphia,

looking like Andy Samberg in a J.

Crew catalog.

I knew exactly who this guy was.

And I'm not saying, like, I still don't know exactly what you are but I'm getting an idea.

I feel like no matter what he's you know how the teacher in Peanuts just goes

whenever she talks?

No matter what he's saying I just hear oh geez fellow which way's Mayberry?

I am a teacher.

It's my job.

You're a teacher?

What do you teach?

Biology.

And at high school level?

Yeah, high school.

Yeah, all right.

Where?

Here in Philadelphia?

In Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Okay.

Yeah.

Jimmy, are those your students?

You snuck into the bar?

All right.

Jimmy, I want to be clear.

You're lucky you're married to Molly because otherwise I would have married you by now.

Thank you.

What do they call you in high school?

Like, what's your, how do they refer to you in class?

Mr.

Kool?

Mr.

Koolf?

Mr.

Wilk, Silk Wilk, Wilk the Stilt?

Yeah.

Wilk the Stilt.

That's awesome.

This is a little unorthodox, Molly.

You know,

I'm sometimes asked as an internet fake judge to officiate weddings.

I always say no because I don't think that weddings should be a joke.

But I will officiate a divorce right now

so that Jesse and I can marry your husband.

Molly?

You just don't like that hat and it embarrasses you?

Yes.

But you knew it was coming when you married him.

For better or for a hat.

She didn't know.

He started wearing it more

recently, and it started just like doing yard work.

I asked him to protect the top of his head from the sun.

I'm losing my hair a little bit.

And so his solution was to wear a hat, which I'm happy with, and that's fine.

Where does he wear the hat that you feel is inappropriate?

That's the thing.

Around our house, I'm fine, even though I don't like it, it's fine.

But he wears it like to the store.

He tried to take it on on vacation.

Yeah, well, that's a vacation hat.

For a child.

Unless you're going to like the Louvre.

Great.

No, but anywhere, I just, when I look at him,

he looks like a child, but he's my husband.

Yeah.

That's going to be true for the rest of your lives.

Here's what I'm going to say, Molly.

I love that hat.

I love that guy.

You're not wrong, though.

If he had come out onto my stage wearing that hat along with the shorts and sandals, I would have said, get out.

I thought you were telling him to get rid of the hat forever.

That hat must never leave your life.

But you know that that is an outdoors hat for taking a hike or working in the garden or going on a boat or going to bush gardens.

Just as when the sun goes down and it's September, put on some damn long pants.

But I like you, Wilk the Stilt.

And I want you guys to take, I order you to take a vacation to Bush Gardens

before June of next year.

This is the sound of a gabble.

Keep the hat, wear it in context.

All right, that's Swift Justice, ladies and gentlemen.

Judge Hodgman, should we get Cynthia Hopkins back out here?

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome back to the stage for a final song Ms.

Cynthia Hopkins.

So

I live here now.

I moved here

six months ago, maybe.

I can't remember now.

So this is kind of an homage

to, this is like my attempt to write something about how much I love it here.

And so the chorus is just the word Philadelphia.

So if you guys feel compelled,

you won't know the tune, but it doesn't really matter.

It's just kind of like you could just yell out

Philadelphia.

You'll, when it comes around.

I wanted to make something

that

had no form to it.

Like a train whistle

in the middle of the night.

I wanted to make something

without consideration from the outside.

Something wild,

like a pack of wolves in a wide open space

before

it was caught.

adelfia

Flier

Yes

But I couldn't get it right

I wanted to make something

fearless and bold

Like dazzling blues rock and roll

Like a wide open field.

It's never known a farmer or

like the birthplace of freedom.

I now call

home

Philadelphia

Philadelphia

failed,

but I couldn't get it right.

I couldn't get it right.

We want to thank the litigants for sharing their disputes and to Nick Moritz for naming this episode's Case.

We also want to thank Robert Hicks of the Mooder Museum and our musical guest, Cynthia Hopkins, for joining us in Philadelphia.

You can find more information about the museum at muttermuseum.org.

You can find Cynthia's music and her podcast, Moving to Philadelphia, at CynthiaHopkins.com.

If you're in New York, Cynthia will be performing her new show, Articles of Faith, from June 15th through the 17th at the kitchen.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmor.

If you've got a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to maximumfun.org slash JJHO.

MaximumFund.org slash JJHO.

If you love Judge John Hodgman, we hope that you will support it in the upcoming Max Fund Drive.

Mark your calendars.

It starts March 20th.

And of course, you can support us anytime at maximumfund.org slash donate.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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