Oculus Miffed

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week's case, Oculus Miff.

Matt brings the case against his girlfriend Amber.

Matt wants to convert their master bedroom into a virtual reality room, but Amber would rather keep the bedroom the way it is.

Who's right, who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom.

But Judge John Hodgman was the true obscenity.

Judge John Hodgman had removed his clothes, every stitch.

They were folded neatly in the empty bird bath that was at the center of the back lawn.

Naked and grass-stained, he was crawling along about five feet behind the lawnmower, eating the cut grass.

Green juice ran down his chin and dripped onto his pendulous belly.

And every time the lawnmower whirled around a corner, Judge John Hodgman rose and did an odd skipping jump before prostrating himself again.

Stop!

Bailiff Jesse Thorne screamed.

Stop that!

But Judge John Hodgman took no notice.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in.

Please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God, or whatever.

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that recording this episode is the only thing standing between me and the Nintendo Virtual Boy that's just been set up in the lunch break area of my office?

I do.

Very well, Judge Hodgman.

Matt and Amber, you may be seated.

For an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors,

can either of you name the piece of culture that I paraphrased when I entered the courtroom?

Amber, you are the defendant, so you can guess first.

Or you can choose to make Matt guess first and maybe gain some information from his guess.

Amber, what is your guess?

I'm going to go first.

If I'm going to dive into this pool, I'm going to be the first one to go.

Well done.

Brave, brave Canadian soul that you are.

I'll do my best.

I think it's the lawnmower man.

Okay, we'll put that in.

The lawnmower man.

And

Matt, what is your guess?

I have to say,

lawnmower man sounds right to me as well.

So you're both going to guess lawnmower man.

Yep.

Both guesses are correct, and

therefore it's a tie, therefore neither of you win.

Too bad.

No.

Finally, you know, when that guy guessed Ferris Bueller, and I got so mad at him, and I gave it to him, I had a lot of letters from people saying, but you didn't get to give his opposite litigant the chance to guess.

What if she had guessed Ferris Bueller?

Then it would be a tie.

And I was like, oh, right.

Sometimes.

Sometimes the pet ants are right.

And in this case, I got saved by them.

Because the minute you said Lawnmower Man, I'm like, oh man, these nerds, they just don't know what this is.

Because I wasn't expecting you to get it.

Because

the Lawnmower Man story by Stephen King

has nothing to do with the movie The Lawnmower Man at all.

It is a completely different story.

That movie is about VR, which is what your case is about.

So I purposely did not quote that thing, thinking that I could end run you by quoting from the original Stephen King story, which is about a literal lawnmower man who follows around a magic lawnmower eating the grass and then uses it to kill a guy as a sacrifice to the pagan god Pan.

This was an early story.

Now, can either of you name, if you're such big Stephen King fans,

the collection in which this first appeared in a Stephen King book?

I think it it was the Night Shift.

Oh, you guys are too good.

Amber,

though you guys tied, because you guessed first,

and because you know so much about Stephen King and Night Shift,

and because, based on the brief that I have reviewed regarding your case, your boyfriend's insane.

Yes.

Though I will hear this case with an open mind,

please know that you have received an immediate summary judgment in my heart.

Thank you so much.

As I understand it, the two of you live together in Ontario.

That is correct.

Canada.

Yes.

In a non-married, romantic relationship.

That would be correct.

All right.

And I understand that

you have a three-bedroom apartment.

It's a three-bedroom house.

House.

Excuse Oh, I apologize.

No worries.

No, that's why I want to, that's just one reason I want to move to Canada.

Well, we have a spare bedroom.

You can move in.

Well, for now you do.

Because

Matt wants to turn your master bedroom into a virtual reality parlor.

Yes.

Is that more or less correct?

Yeah.

I just hope he doesn't want to paint it black and put yellow lines all over it.

Oh,

like the holodeck when it's turned off?

That's what he wants.

Is he already wearing one of those black cat suits with the ping-pong balls all over it?

Because that's what I'm picturing.

No, he hasn't stooped that low quite yet.

So, Matt, I love your vibe.

This is an incredibly big thing to ask of the woman that you love.

So, I'm going to let you make.

your case.

First of all, before you tell me the why of this VR room, help me and the listeners understand what you are talking about doing in your master bedroom.

All right.

So in the master bedroom, what I want to do is take away all the furniture, have a computer, and set up a VR station, and hopefully a second one as well, because

we like to get away from that.

Oh, so that you guys can be together.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then,

you know, just have a pure VR room so there's nothing to trip on or anything like that.

No, but let's say say for the moment that some of our listeners have not set up a VR rig in their home yet.

What is this going to entail?

What's it going to look like?

Basically, it's just going to be a normal computer tower or two towers, and then

there will be two.

I'm definitely ordering you to call it the two towers.

There will be two

black things in the two corners of the room that will send will monitor where you are in the room, and then it will have the headset and and the controllers.

And then you'll have a wire from the headset to the computers, which I hope will mount on the ceiling so we won't have to trip on them.

So, you would have wires dropping down from the ceiling to a headset enclosing your eyes and ears.

The wires would come down from the ceiling, sort of like the spray nozzle at a self-service car wash.

You got it.

Got it.

I think, first of all, this sounds hot.

And you would be there in a obviously furniture-less room aside from your two towers.

Yep, which might be in the closet.

Right, so that you have the full range of motion.

And the computer will put into your headset a virtual world that you can explore with your beloved.

And that way, for once, you two can be together in your master bedroom.

That is correct.

Okay.

I don't don't have to say anything to that.

What do you do all day, Matt, aside from dream?

Of electric sheep.

Whoa.

Jesse Thorne, I am bowing to you.

I watch a lot of TV and play co-op games with Amber quite frequently.

And do you have the means?

Do you have a job?

Do you have the financial means to construct this palace?

Yes, we do.

I'm a software developer at a startup in town.

And Amber, you are also a gamer?

I am.

I'm the bigger gamer, the two of us.

Really?

So are you averse to any VR set or just one that takes over your whole master bedroom?

The one that takes over my master bedroom.

I'm not opposed to VR.

Actually, we play it sometimes already.

Oh, you already have.

What's your what?

I mean, I guess there's no avoiding mentioning brands, but as I am curious about.

Just say it.

Virtual boy.

What's your rig so far?

The current rig we have is the PlayStation VR.

Yeah.

Okay.

And so that's a PlayStation 4, right?

And where is that set up?

In fact, I'm going to go, you sent in some evidence, including a very helpful floor plan of your three-bedroom

home

house

in Canada.

Okay.

So this is just the upstairs.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're your three bedrooms.

You have the master, which is the biggest, and then the and then bedroom two and bedroom three.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

it but but this is not where your current VR rig is now no our current VR rig right now is in the living room since it's PlayStation VR you don't need the range of motion that you would need with the one that I want to set up in the master bedroom right we'll go ahead and call it the uh the the holodeck the holodeck yep yeah so you're not moving that thing upstairs you are gonna get a whole new rig going Yeah, we already got the computer.

Yeah, we have half.

Oh, right, because you're going to have a computer, right?

Yeah.

So you already have the one tower.

Yeah.

And are you upgrading your headset as well?

Obviously, the PlayStation VR works with PlayStation, right?

So this would be a new thing.

Yeah.

Yep.

Just out of curiosity, what's going to be, if I were to grant you all of your virtual dreams, sir, what would be the cost of this whole thing?

In Canadian dollars, if you don't mind.

Including renovations to the room?

Well, I don't know.

Are you going to change the textures of the room?

Hopefully.

Oh, well, you know what?

I appreciate your good manners, but you know, now's the time to let it all out.

Tell me your dream.

And this is the thing that's going to make me

rule in your favor is your passion

and your ability to tell me your dream in such a way that I would be a monster to deny it.

So show me the whole thing in your mind.

What are you going to change in the room?

Are you going to put down fake grass to create an artificial environment?

You're going to have

smells

pumped in.

The smell is a good idea.

Yeah, it is a good idea.

Basically, I do want to kind of paint it black and have the yellow lines and make it a true holodeck all around.

I thought that was a joke before, but now I understand.

No, he was serious.

Okay.

Should we be hearing this case on Greatest Generation and not Judge John Hodgman?

You're talking about the hit podcast?

Yeah, I I there's a part of me that wonders if all of the virtual reality games that they play will somehow be about like them going to either Victorian England or Shakespeare times.

Or Robin Hood.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What a g what games do you want to play, Matt?

Obviously Dick Tracy.

Obviously.

No doi.

Only the number one VR game of all time, Dick Tracy.

Actually, I'd be more interested in playing the co-op games that come out for VR.

There's no game specifically I want to play at this moment.

I'm more into kind of building the tech room of it, and Amber will tend to enjoy the actual games more.

I mean, you're looking at playing the greatest VR games of all time: Dick Tracy, Little Orphan Annie, Buster Brown, the Cats and Jammer Kids, Little Nemo in Slumberland,

Garfield.

I think, you know what, though?

I think Matt was in a very sly way making reference to another famous holodeck scenario on the Enterprise D, which is Jean-Luc Picard playing Dixon Hill, the hard-boiled detective.

Did I get you right there, Matt?

Yes, you did.

Okay, sorry.

I'll leave and get Ben Harrison to come in here.

It was some pretty subtle under-the-radar Canadian deadpan, but I got it finally, and I apologize for not picking up on it immediately.

Well, at least I got to list off old-timey comics tricks.

So it's not even that you want to play the VR game so much, Matt, although you're happy to do it.

You just want to build the rig.

Yes.

Also, I do enjoy playing the VR.

Right.

I'm one of those really lucky few that really get into it.

Especially with the PlayStation VR that we have now.

Like when I'm getting shot at, I'm on the ground like in a ball.

Yeah.

You must not, this is the thing.

It's like to have VR in a living room scenario, and I've thought about this a lot because I'm curious about it.

You got to stand in front of the TV or whatever, and you put on your thing, and

you got all these sensors around you that are sensing your motion.

This means the death to the coffee table industry, doesn't it?

You can't play that thing and be tripping over your coffee table.

We already don't have a coffee table.

Yeah, I was going to say, it already died a long time ago.

Yeah, of course.

You got to be able to fall down to the ground and panic.

Yeah.

Although the coffee table would be useful to hide behind when you're getting shot at.

Or leaning on.

Would the coffee table be part of the world?

You put some sensors on the coffee table?

No.

It's just if the game already calls for cover, then you can use it as something you can put your hands on so you can actually feel it.

It would add another level of realism to the VR.

That's called haptic response, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, I read Ready Player 1.

You're going to get some treadmills in there so you can walk around in your virtual environments?

No, that's why we want the Vive, because that would allow us to walk around in our own pace instead of on our own.

All right, that's the thing.

I don't know what it is.

What is the Viv?

The HTC Vive is the other virtual reality that we eventually would like to get.

And it allows you to walk around in a 15 by 15 foot room.

Yeah.

Using those sensors that he was talking about that are in the corners of the room.

So in other words, your play field would be 15 by 15.

You couldn't walk to an infinite horizon.

Yeah.

But you could make use of a room that is up to 15 by 15

in your act of gameplay.

Yeah.

And is that why you want to put this thing in the master bedroom instead of the other two bedrooms you have?

Exactly.

The master bedroom is our biggest room that would facilitate this.

It's not 15 by 15 foot, but it's also square as well, allowing it to be

much better in area.

And also, it's the only room in the house that could really fit two VR headset, like two players at the same time.

So, yeah, so looking now at your evidence, which is available on maximumfund.org, the Judge John Hodgman page,

your three bedrooms, your master is

roughly 12 by 10 feet, is more or less squared off.

And both of your guest bedrooms or second bedrooms are about 9 by 12, 9 by 13.

So they're both a little bit smaller.

And you would propose then that once the master is turned into the holodeck,

you guys would move into bedroom three or bedroom two?

Yes.

And why is that an unacceptable arrangement, Amber?

Well, I have a lot of reasons I don't want it to be that way.

I think that it's going to be like an inconvenience because the bedroom is the master bedroom, has the master en suite where the bathroom is.

It also has the largest closet, so that's where I go to get all my clothes.

That's all for that's just for computer towers now.

Yeah, apparently.

Just the computer towers.

It'll be like the server room.

I don't want that.

And only robots are allowed to use the bathroom for now on.

Exactly.

Yeah, you have to use the virtual bathroom.

We'll just hook you up to some catheter tubes.

You'll be fine.

Yeah, yeah, Right.

I also don't really like it because the

third bedroom, which I think is the one that he would want us to go into, has like it on looks like a big store, and that's nice, bright, shiny light is shining in on that room.

It's not particularly exciting to look outside.

Yes, and in fact, you sent in a picture of the view from that room.

Yes.

And it faces a little snowy backyard.

Yep.

And then a desolate field of snow and parking lot.

You're disappointed that your Ontario window overlooks a frozen wasteland?

It's a frozen wasteland dominated

by

a huge and,

I would say, evil

big box chain store.

Yes, that is.

If I am making out this logo correctly, I mean, it's true, you know, speaking of the true towers, basically it would turn your bedroom view into staring into the eye of Sauron.

Yes, that is exactly the problem.

What's the view in the master bedroom?

The master bedroom has a much better view.

There's a park on the right-hand side, and then it has actually, we look out on a street, so we can see the houses, but we can look straight down, so it has a nice view basically from there in comparison.

Also, Shelly, our dog, would love the likes to look out the window, and we couldn't do that in the bedroom that he wants to propose because the windows are higher.

They're like so.

That's okay.

Matt will just put her goggles on to her that will simulate a beautiful view all the time.

She would probably like that, especially if there's a dog there.

I'm pretty sure Matt is just replacing the real-life dog with the dog from Microsoft Bob.

Yeah.

Another reason why I don't really want it is I'm the one who actually mostly plays the VR games.

Matt doesn't really.

He gets motion sickness more easily than I do.

I was going to ask about that because on the Jonathan Colton cruise

last year, the last time I went, I met a guy whose job was working on VR and specifically the issue of keeping people from getting nauseated while playing it and disoriented and how to deal with that.

So you are VR proof, but Matt, the reason he's curling up in a ball is because he feels sick to his tummy.

Well, he gets sick more easily than I do, but I have gotten motion sickness from the system a couple of times.

Not as often.

One time was my fault because I wasn't feeling well to begin with.

So don't put on VR if you are not feeling well.

It'll make the whole thing worse.

But yeah, sometimes the games themselves, like either the way that you control your avatar in the world sort of moves strangely and can make you feel odd, like you're sort of like grating against like a brick wall and you're trying to go up a ramp.

You're like, why is there this wall here?

And sometimes it's just the way.

Sounds like a lot of fun.

Yeah, sometimes it can be.

So they're still at the early stages of games.

So there's not, you know, too many that are perfect yet.

But we're getting there.

So you, you're obviously an aficionado.

What do you do in your regular day-to-day life, Amber?

Not as exciting as that.

I wish it was all video games.

Um, I work at a university, and I basically am sort of an invoice handler or sleuth, as I like to call it sometimes, and sort of a jack of all trades with regards to the rest of my job description.

Whatever sort of lands on my table, I sort of take care of video games rule, universities drool.

Yeah.

So, so, your beloved Matt wants to build a world for you to escape into from this, get away from the horrible monster big box store out back,

and you're obviously the drudgery of your invoice handling,

and you are spurning him, saying you'd rather have a real master bedroom.

If you had a 15 by 15 foot room in your house that was otherwise being unused,

would you accept this gift from Matt?

Yes, I actually don't mind the holodeck room in a concept.

I just don't want it to be my master bedroom.

We technically do have a space.

We have a basement, which we could convert into a place, which is definitely more than 50, or I think it's definitely 15.

I don't know if it's 15 wide, but it's definitely long.

And I think that that would be a better space.

But Matt won't go down there because he's terrified of a specific bug that I cannot possibly name, even though it probably isn't down there at all anyway.

Why?

Because it's the Walmart book.

No.

You don't want to buzz market the terrible shop shop out back?

No, it's more like the mere mention of the name of the insect causes him to curl in a ball.

Oh, I'm hearing a lot about you curling in a ball, Matt.

What's the problem with the basement?

Talk about...

I want to hear about the bugs.

Yeah, I want to hear about that bug, too.

I'm not going to take no for an answer either.

All right.

So the problem with the basement is...

You know, you have your VR headset on, so you can't see what's around you.

And so I will be constantly in fear that, you know, it will come out from wherever it's hiding.

And,

you know, I might touch it or something when I touch a wall, or it might just crawl up on me, and I would have no idea because I would have the VR headset on.

And that just terrifies me.

You know, I've often wished that Stephen King listened to this podcast.

And especially now, because this sounds like a Stephen King short story.

What kind of bug is it that you're afraid of?

Yeah.

It's a centipede.

A centipede.

Do you have a centipede problem in the basement, or is there just one centipede that's always hanging around?

I've actually never seen a centipede in the basement

or in our close.

This is the virtual reality centipede that is apparently in our basement.

What?

What?

Did you send me a picture of your basement?

We did not.

I was going to send a picture of the basement of a bunch of spiders, but currently we have two cats and they ate all the spiders up that I was was going to use as evidence.

Once again, cats are conspiring against you, Matt.

Yep.

Tell me more about the basement, Amber, because obviously this is a very attractive solution to a judge.

Okay, so right now the basement isn't finished, so it would require some, obviously, construction.

Like there's no drywall and there's no paint and there's no carpet.

It's just literally concrete floor and then you have the insulation that you can see from there.

And then you still also have the wooden beams on the ceiling, too.

But if you put on a set of virtual reality goggles, all of a sudden you're in the world of the gasoline alley gang.

One of two comic strips, Jesse.

There may be more, but two landmark comic strips in which the characters age.

Oh.

Can you think of the other one?

Is that Mary Worth?

No.

No.

Rhymes with Orange?

No.

I'll give you a hint.

It's a comic strip from the nation that we are talking to right now.

A Canadian comic strip?

Is it Socialized Medicine?

Do you guys know what it is?

Not off A.

No.

How old are you guys again?

Are you like 31 or something?

Comic strips are not part of your life.

No.

For better or for worse.

I guess worse in this condition.

No, that's no, that's the name of the comic strip.

Oh,

how can you be Ontarians and not know for better or for worse?

By, I want to say, Lynn Johnston.

I probably do know it, but I wouldn't remember it as the well, she retired after a while,

and now it's just reruns.

But it was a story about a family, and they all grew up and then had children, just like in Gasoline Alley, where the main character in the strip in the 20s, when automobiles were a hobby fad is now 120 or something.

It's crazy.

Sorry.

This is what the podcast should be, Jesse.

Just me talking about comic strips.

I know it's what you would like the podcast to be.

Right now, yeah.

So let me ask you, you guys, first of all, I love your life

because you, you have the, you have a three-bedroom house, a dog, two cats, a sweet VR rig, not a great view out your back window,

but jobs that support and nourish you and some terrific hobbies and a lot of affection for each other.

No kids.

Nope.

You're living the dream.

Big grown-up kids.

Yep.

Yep.

So

do you own this house or do you rent it?

I currently own part of it.

All right.

My mom owns the other part.

Okay, but

right, okay.

So you're in partnership with your mom.

Yep, and we're planning on buying her out soon.

Okay.

And do you have the funds, Amber, to do the basement renovations that you're talking about?

We'd have to probably save up for it because we still, we just bought the tower, which was a bit for Christmas.

Yeah, but you really, but the tower, the tower computer, like you, you really jumped the gun, didn't you there, Matt?

Because, you know, you bought the machine before you got the black room with the yellow lines.

Yes.

Mainly because I can use the computer for other stuff and I can play...

There's a bunch of games and the computer I was using was starting to die.

So we decided to go ahead and buy one of the machines now.

So how far away are you, if I were to rule in your favor, how far away are you, would you say, from saving up to get another machine?

Another machine

next month?

Next month.

All right.

And Amber, how far away

would you say from

being able to do some basic renovations on the basement to make it at least a potential VR parlor?

I'm not sure exactly what the cost would be, but if we can afford the computer, we could probably start doing the renovations downstairs.

And you don't have any outbuildings, right?

You don't have any other secret Canadian extra space?

Nope.

No, just the basement.

Right.

Well, we've got that VR parlor in the backyard.

Well, we haven't used that for ages.

We have that geodesic dome.

Sorry, should have mentioned it.

Is there any self-storage place that has 15 by 15 cubes that you can rent?

Not that I know of.

We don't have a car, so it's hard for us to get.

Wait a minute.

What?

Yeah.

This is what your priorities are?

How do you get to work?

Let me take the bus.

You're buying VR computers and you can't even get a Subaru in your life?

Yep.

Maybe you should put a virtual reality studio on one of those buses.

All right.

I know what you want if I were to find in your favor, Matt.

Yep.

And Amber, if I find in your favor,

would you allow Matt to put a VR parlor into one of the back bedrooms?

Or do you agree with him that it's just not...

Oh, no, no, we're talking about the basement, right?

Okay.

But while you're saving up, Could you put a VR parlor into one of the back bedrooms, Amber?

Is that a possibility?

Yeah, that would be fine.

It just doesn't offer the dream of escaping reality.

The dream of playing a game that he has yet to even pick.

Okay.

I think I've heard everything.

Unless there's any last word you'd like to say, Matt?

There is.

Amber mentioned our dog and how she likes to look out the window.

So that's another reason I want to use the master bedroom is so when we are in our VR world, not paying attention to her, she has a nice place to look out the window.

Yeah, she likes to look out of the window in that room.

So, your plan is to just have your dog in there, running around, fleeing from you while you're wearing these VR goggles.

Yeah, it seems like a great place for her to look out the window and be terrified by people.

Don't get any soccer games.

That's my top recommendation.

Why are those robot helmets attacking my people?

All right, I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going to climb up into my sensory deprivation tank and ponder this over while disembodiedly roaming the galaxy.

I'll be back in a moment with my decision.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Amber, how do you feel about your chances here?

Oh, I'm worried.

I really want to not have the master bedroom become the VR room.

It'll be really claustrophobic if I have to go in the small room.

Can I offer you a quick suggestion?

What?

What if you let loose some centipedes in the master bedroom?

I've been thinking potentially I might do that if I absolutely have to.

Sabotage the room.

Matt, how are you feeling?

I'm feeling pretty worried.

I'm hoping the judge sees that the more optimal and

really getting all the bang for our buck for VR is the best way to go and having my dream of the cool holodeck

persuades them.

Matt, do they have the word cockamame in Canada, or is there a different word that describes your scheme?

We do not have that word.

Well,

Canadians, you can write in.

We'll be back in just a second with Judge John Hodgman's ruling.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

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And whether it's griddles or pots and pans or knives or glassware or tableware, I mean, you know, Jesse, I'm sad to be leaving Maine soon, but I am very, very happy to be getting back to my beloved made-in entree bowls.

All of it is incredibly solid, beautiful, functional, and as you point out, a lot more affordable because they sell it directly to you.

If you want to take your cooking cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common.

They're made in, made in.

For full details, visit madeincookware.com.

That's m-a-d-e-i-n cookware.com.

Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

Okay, I just want to let you guys know that I'm doing this all in my VR thing.

So if I accidentally hit the the mic or whatever, I'll just.

All right, I'm going to do this IRL, if you don't mind.

Although I was enjoying my new judge's bench at the top of the Mayan pyramid of Qbert, but now I'm here back in my office talking to you like a real human being.

Real talk for real meat space, you guys.

I love what's going on in your house in Ontario.

And I

totally, totally

want you guys to have the VR parlor of Matt's dreams.

And here's why.

One, it's a gift.

If this were just some monstrous boyfriend who's like, I just want to FPS it all day long.

And this is the room that I want, so get out, honey, which is what I thought this was going to be, I wouldn't even talk to you guys.

I would have have just done it on the docket.

But I love that Matt just wants to rig it up.

That's what he's interested in doing.

And that, Amber, you want to play.

You're even okay with the idea of turning a room into not only a VR parlor, but a room that, once it is decorated with black paint and yellow lines, cannot be used for anything else.

It would mark you guys as weirdos for a long time.

You could have a VR parlor that is a multi-purpose room.

Do you know what I mean?

Just lay down some whatever

wall-to-wall,

and then you can have some, I don't know what else, but

you're committed, and I dig it.

But

no way, Matt, no way

are you going to take your master bedroom, the best room in your house,

the most important room

for you to

be together

in this world that we all share until the singularity happens and then we're all going to be off on thumb drives into the galaxy.

That's going to happen sooner than you think.

We're going to conquer mortality and just be blips and bleeps out in the neuro space.

Trying to write a science fiction novel, you guys.

But and in those last moments

where we are still Homo sapiens and not Homo robotoids,

you've got to be with each other.

It's cold in Canada in the wintertime.

I saw that view out the back of your window in that back bedroom.

And the night is dark and full of terrors.

And also that Walmart.

You don't want to look at that.

You don't want to look at that.

When you're spending your most intimate moments together, your dog doesn't want to look at that.

When people live in cold, dark places up north, in the wintertime,

your home is your refuge.

It is,

in many ways, the virtual reality we all used before there was virtual reality to create an alternate reality that was not dark, cold, and grim.

I'm sure you've got wonderful stuff in your neighborhood.

I mean, you're getting out there in it all the time, taking the bus everywhere and everything else.

I'm not ditching on your particular area of Ontario, but I saw what was outside the back of your window.

Oof.

That view is no good.

So therefore, no, you can't give over that space of refuge and real

life

intimacy to your fantasy, even though it fits the size of more or less of what a holodeck should be.

And the other reason I couldn't rule in your favor, Matt, was once I learned that you're scared to go down in that basement because of a centipede that may or may not exist.

I'm like, no, dude, you have to get over some IRL fears before I can let you go disappear into the fantasy world.

You got to get over that centipede issue.

The solution is obvious.

That basement's the perfect place.

And for these reasons: one, it's bigger.

Two, it doesn't have your marital bed in it.

Three, it's not going to rob your dog of its virtual reality looking out that window.

Four,

in order to use it,

you have to renovate down there.

And while that is expensive,

turning your basement from a centipede-riddled hellhole into a nice finished basement, even if you paint it black with yellow lines, you're increasing the value of this home that you and your mom currently own.

And then once it's all cleaned up, I bet you're not going to be so scared of the centipedes.

That reality is going to transform down there before you ever put on your VR headset.

Does it mean you have to wait?

Yes.

You have to wait because A,

you do have to get that second tower.

That's an expense.

And B,

you do have to renovate it.

That's an expense.

And C, C, the technology is only going to continue and improve, and that's an expense.

And the longer you wait and fashion your dreams down there,

the better your VR experience is going to be down the road.

Is it delayed satisfaction?

Yes, it is.

I'm sorry, you're just going to have to play the VR set you already have in the living room.

But it will be more satisfaction.

when you fix up your basement, get over your fear of centipedes, and continue to have a happy life in a master bedroom that doesn't have lines all over it and connects to a bathroom.

This is the sound I would gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules, that's all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Amber, how do you feel about your new basement?

I'm really excited.

What game are you going to play when you have this virtual reality fantasy land?

Oh, there's a really cool one that I want to play that's underwater and you get to experience fish and whales and all sorts of aquatic marine life.

Can you bring Lieutenant Whorf?

He can definitely come.

Yeah.

Matt, how are you feeling?

A bit scared, but I mean, he's probably right.

And the basement is bigger, so it would fit better.

Although we will have to wait a while so we, you know, can renovate it.

Maybe you can use the intervening time to decide on a game or two you'd like to play i do have a couple games on my wish list i just don't remember what they are i know there's a new star trek game coming out

that'd be pretty exciting matt amber thanks for joining us on the judge john hodgman podcast

you know we've been doing my brother my brother me for 15 years and

Maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So, let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined!

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Jesse.

Yeah.

Did I tell you about my experience

marching in the women's march in New York City with my son?

No.

Well, my wife and our daughter, Hajmina, went to D.C.

and had an incredibly overwhelming and empowering experience marching the women's march there.

And my son and I stayed behind and met up with our friend David Rees,

and we all went marching up here.

And it was also overwhelming and empowering and

reassuring to feel the crush of so many people who were feeling a lot of the same anxieties about this unprecedented new political world we're in.

And I think that even if you're a listener out there who voted for Donald Trump, you had to have known you were voting for something very, very, very different.

And it is, right?

I mean, you know that's true, right?

So we're all neighbors and friends and all, but I'm just saying it was reassuring to feel people who were feeling the same thing we were and to feel the crush of human bodies.

But the greatest moment in my Women's March experience was

as we walked by and I have to say the name, it was the Microsoft store on Fifth Avenue.

A number of employees were inside, a number of shoppers were inside, and they were all waving and smiling to all of us and we were waving and smiling back.

And then just off to the corner in the second floor of the Microsoft store was a dude with a VR helmet on just shooting imaginary bats or whatever.

That was totally,

totally, it was so

weird and beautiful to see this guy totally in his own, of course it was a guy, totally in his own world

while this historic thing unfurled around him.

And I get it.

We all need to escape from time to time.

People march in their own ways.

For all I know, he was on a VR woman's march in there.

But I don't think he was because he was waving his arms around as if he was flailing with a sword.

Anyway, that's my VR story, Jesse.

I, a few years ago, was invited to South by Southwest Interactive to host a series of journalistic sponsored short videos for a popular media website.

They were not, we didn't do any journalism about the sponsor, but they were sponsored content.

By the way, invite me to do those videos.

It was so much fun and paid very well.

But anyway, I went to South by Southwest Interactive, had a great time.

I raced on a giant Super Mario Kart course against Griffin McElroy from my brother, my brother, and me.

Needless to say, he destroyed me.

Yeah, just completely crushed me like an ant under his heel.

Of course.

But one of the things I did was try out the

Oculus Rift.

And it was the first version, which I understand is a little weirder and did make me feel sick.

Mostly, that was the primary thing.

But I played Paperboy.

You know the game Paperboy?

Where you're the classic arcade game?

I played a virtual reality version of that.

And when I saw the playback of the edit of the piece, I realized that basically Paperboy in virtual reality, in which you ride on a stationary bicycle and throw newspapers, is essentially asking every player unknowingly to just do a series of fascist salutes.

It was so horrible.

The favorite game of the alt-right.

What?

I'm just playing paperboy.

If I ever ran for office, all you need is some ominous music and a desaturation filter on that footage.

And it's a 30-second commercial.

It's the new Lenny Riefenstahl

movie.

Anyway, thanks to Craig Eliason for naming this week's episode Oculus Mift.

If you want to name a future episode like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook, you should also follow us on Twitter, at Hodgman, and at Jesse Thorne.

We regularly put out the call for submissions in both those places.

This week's episode, engineered by Ian Graham from Small Dog Studio in Kitchener, Ontario.

So thank you to Ian.

Thanks, Ian.

Very kind guy.

Our producer, of course, the great Jennifer Marmer, recording here in Los Angeles.

And

on the edit and everything else, if if you want to submit a case to the Judge John Hodgman podcast, go to maximumfund.org slash JJ Ho.

Now, John, I should only do that if I'm 100% certain that the case is suitable and I'm ready, right?

No, you're absolutely wrong, Jesse.

As you should submit

whether you think the case is suitable, whether you know it is unsuitable, just aren't sure, or just want to say hi.

By going to that website, maximumfund.org slash JJ Ho, and filling out that form, you are creating an email that goes directly to me.

Or you can send an email directly to me, me, hodgman at maximumfun.org with your pedantic critiques of my grammar or whatever it is you want to say.

I actually really love hearing from everybody.

I read every letter that comes through.

I respond to as many as I can, as quickly as I can.

And of course, I and Jen and Jesse evaluate the cases, which ones are best for the podcast or for the docket or for the New York Times magazine.

column net that I do in the Sunday Times.

And so if you don't hear back from me for a while, that may simply be because we're seriously considering your case.

So please write on in.

Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets and Facebook posts with hashtag JJHO.

And if you want to get into what's often a quite in-depth and thoughtful discussion of every week's case, go to maximumfund.reddit.com to join our subreddit.

If you have any thoughts about my facility with Star Trek references, please send those to MaximumFundHQ, care of Benjamin Harrison and Adam Pranica, the greatest generation.

They'll go ahead and read those and take them to heart.

Oh, can I just say something about those two awesome dudes?

Yeah, sure.

And their very popular podcast about Star Treks?

This is an aside.

They just sent me a book as part of the thing.

What is that thing again?

That's maximumfund.org's inner circle, where if you donate on a monthly basis a certain amount,

each month a max fund talent or employee selects a special book or film or music album, just called albums,

to send to you.

Yeah.

And so those guys sent me a book called Ancillary Justice.

It's a science fiction book by a woman named Anne Leckie with a really nice letter describing what an interesting

and enjoyable book it is.

And you know what I did with that book, Jesse?

Threw it right in the trash.

I did because I already read it, and I never knew that Ben and Pranica already loved that book.

I was so excited to see that book again.

It's like, oh, those guys are cool.

They know what's a good book.

I actually gave the book to a friend of mine to read.

But

I'm just going to say, those guys are cool.

And Lucky, you're cool.

I follow you on Twitter.

Ancillary Justice.

It's an amazing book.

And I'm glad to be part of such a wonderful family of friends and fellow podcasters.

That's all.

Well, that's it for another Judge John Hodgman podcast in the books.

Book'em Dano, as my famous catchphrase goes.

And as always, I have no catchphrase to end this podcast after many years of doing it.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Goodbye.

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