Motion to Strike a Pose

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

We are bailiffs Dave Shumka and Graham Clark.

This week, motion to strike a pose.

Justin files suit against his fiancé, Sarah.

They are recently engaged, and Sarah is set on taking professionally shot engagement photos.

Justin thinks engagement photos are silly, and he is opposed to the idea.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents the obscure cultural reference.

Now, marriage, previous to the Judge John Hodgman podcast, was awful.

Awful.

There's a cycle like life.

Birth, excitement, growth, decay, death.

Now, now.

How about this?

Here comes a large dragon.

Teeth.

Blood dripping.

Red eyes.

What do I got?

A lasso.

And I whip it up.

I wrap it around its neck and I I wrestle, wrestle, wrestle him into the ground.

I snap up.

I say, sit, dragon.

Dragon sits.

I say, stay.

Dragon stays.

Now it's got a leash on, take it for a walk.

And

that's where we're at with it now.

It stays on command.

Next, we're going to teach it to roll over, play dead.

Guest Bayless, Dave, and Graham swear them in.

Please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever?

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that Judge John Hodgman has only ever taken enragement photos?

I do.

Yes.

Over to you, Judge John Hodgman.

Justin and Sarah, you may be seated.

Hello again, guest bailiffs, Dave Shumka and Graham Clark from Stop Podcasting Yourself.

For those of you who listened last week, we

now have a delightful double team of bumbling bailiffs.

We arrested each other by accident.

What hijinks have you guys gotten into?

What scrapes

have you gotten into this week?

Did you accidentally handcuff your ankles together?

Yeah, we sure did.

And we accidentally chained ourselves to the lead float in the August parade that that happens here in Vancouver.

If you were listening last week,

Dave Shumka briefly attained best bailiff

category

and then got busted back down.

They're both still down at medium bailiff.

At any time, I could promote one of them to best bailiff.

That's a pretty big threat.

Yeah.

I could also promote one of them to key grip bailiff.

No, no.

That's some very esoteric set talk.

And I am still here in Maine at the Studios at WERU with guest engineer Joel.

How are you doing, Joel?

Great.

Great to be here, John.

It's the most enthusiastic I've ever heard you.

We're very excited about this case.

Now it's scaring me.

All right.

Thank you very much, Joel.

Sarah and Justin, are you still there?

Yes.

We are.

Good.

You met the whole squad?

Yes.

All right, good.

And

you are in studio there in New York City.

Is that correct?

Yes.

That is correct.

And Argo Studio?

Do I remember that correctly?

Yes.

Well, thanks.

And hello to them as well.

So here we all are to hear your dispute about engagement photos.

Before we proceed, though, for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, can you name the piece of popular culture that I paraphrased as I entered the courtroom, not today, but in the last episode?

All right, I'm not going to make you do that, but I did promise that I would reveal the popular culture reference from last episode, this episode, because I forgot to do it last episode.

And you guys didn't hear it, and I'm not going to repeat it.

But for those of you who remember,

bailiffs, Dave and Graham,

do you have a guess?

Yeah, Cliffhanger.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's right.

Your guess was Cliffhanger.

So last week,

we

heard a dispute between two women in Las Vegas.

The dispute was over the ethical running of charity raffles, and I I read a passage, and that passage was from a short story called The Ides of March.

Are you getting it yet?

Dave and Graham?

You remember the Ides of March was the first story in the collection called The Amateur Craftsman?

Yep.

No, you got it?

Yep.

We're very wary of the Ides of March.

Oh, is that?

Yep.

And the author of that collection of short stories was E.W.

Hornung.

It was the first story featuring the famed gentleman thief, A.J.

Raffles.

A.J.

Raffles was the anti-hero gentleman thief.

He lived in high society, and his crimes were covered up because he was a champion cricketeer.

And

came out around the same time as Sherlock Holmes and for a long time was considered to be the second most popular character in fiction.

And now

26.

Yeah,

now number one.

In an alternate universe in which Benedict Cumberbatch stars as A.W.

Raffles.

I can't wait until they reboot it.

Yeah.

You know what?

I'm surprised they haven't.

An all-female A.J.

Raffles.

What?

Are you trying to kill my childhood?

Anyway, moving on, Sarah and Justin,

that's all nonsense to you, but I'm glad you're here now.

You heard the thing that I said as I came in.

Do you know where that came from?

Sarah, you were brought into this court against your will, so you get to guess first or make Justin guess first, but you both must guess.

Sarah, what is your guess?

I'm going to make him guess first.

Okay, Justin.

All right.

Well, I think this is going to anger a lot of people because I'm almost certain it's not true, but I have no idea.

So I'm going to guess A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.

R.

Martin because it had dragons in it.

That is a guess.

Put it into the guess book.

Sarah, you have heard his guess.

Could be right, could be wrong.

Only one man will decide, but not yet until you guess.

I am likewise clueless.

We're going to go with a Pete's dragon.

I think that's a thing.

Also with a dragon.

That is a thing with dragons, and it's a reboot of that movie is coming out soon.

So I now know that you are a secret agent for Disney on my podcast.

And you, Sir Chestin, are a secret agent for George R.R.

Martin.

You found me out.

Yeah, so

let me say not only both, but all guesses are wrong.

That was a monologue from a movie called The Master,

starring Philip Seymour Hoffman, the late Philip Seymour Hoffman,

as a character loosely based on L.

Ron Hubbard

and

Joaquin Phoenix

as his Acho Light.

It's a Paul Thomas Anderson film.

Dave and Graham, have you seen this movie?

Yep.

Nope.

Okay.

50-50.

Let's see if we can break the tie.

Joel, have you seen this movie?

No, I have not.

Oh, okay.

So what about you, Justin or Sarah?

Have you seen it?

I have not.

Nope, obviously not.

Graham, stay on the line.

Everyone else, you can go home.

I am handcuffed to him.

Yeah, whoops.

Okay, put cotton in your ears.

And or watch the movie very quickly.

It's a great movie.

I loved it.

I think

it's not as many people, obviously, have seen it who should have.

It should be 100% yeses around the courtroom.

And I'm disappointed in all of you.

I bet there's one dude listening in an Argo studios who's like, I can't believe it.

That's a masterpiece.

I'm with you, dude.

and the reason i picked that one is it's pretty it's pretty thin thread to tie this one in but uh joaquin phoenix uh plays one of the most disturbing department store studio photographers ever portrayed on film large largely because he is getting drunk on uh on the chemicals he uses to develop the pictures

so and that ties in because justin you are mad at your betrothed, your fiancé, Sarah, because she wants some studio portraits of you guys as an engaged couple, and you think this is a dum-dum idea.

Expound.

That is correct.

I think she actually wants to go out into the world and go to various locations and get photos of us for our engagement photos.

But yes,

I do not think it's a good idea because I don't think it's not actually commemorating anything.

The engagement has already happened.

We have some photos from that day, and this will just be photos of us in random places that have nothing to do with the engagement.

Yeah, just photos of you guys in love in some rando places.

Who wants that?

Boring.

Correct.

Got it.

Sarah, how do you respond to this man

who you will marry?

Yes,

well, I don't think it's a stupid idea.

Obviously, I find that his position is stupid in and of itself.

I think that it's important, number one, to get comfortable in front of the camera before you get married and you're in front of the camera all day.

It's also a good time to get to know your photographer,

and that it's not about commemorating the actual act of getting engaged, but rather about the period in which you are engaged and, as you said, celebrating being together.

So

you're saying that there's a practical benefit in that you log some camera time together

and you get to sort of audition the photographer before you lock in to your wedding photographer.

Exactly.

You know what, Dave and Graham.

Yeah.

Boys, you're not always here.

No.

So I'm going to tell you a little bit something about the judge, John Hodgman.

But we're always in your heart, right?

About

how many people in the room saw the master?

That percentage.

That percentage of time you're in my heart.

Oh, goodness.

Well, I don't,

I know a lot of people, and I i have a very small heart

so a lot of time

litigans come in and it's just like i like this thing and i don't like this thing and that's the argument and very rarely do you hear someone who's given some thought to presenting a real argument for their position other than i i don't like it i like what i like i have this and this is not prejudicing me in any way you know it's just sometimes you don't hear an argument and and and sometimes a good argument can win out for a terrible position.

So I'm not saying who's right or wrong yet, but I'm just saying I like this, Sarah.

I like that you brought an argument to the table other than I want it.

Do you know what I mean?

Yes, you're honest.

So watch what happens next.

Justin.

Yes.

You've heard Sarah say that this will give you guys some time in front of the camera to get to know your good sides together as a couple and to figure out if the audition a photographer to find out if you like what this person is doing before it's too late and he or she takes bad photos of you at your wedding.

How do you respond to that argument?

I think I have two responses.

First, the fact that to find out how to get comfortable in front of a camera, I think both of us have been photographed a lot over the past 30-something years of our lives.

Cameras aren't anything new.

I think, you know, anyone who's seen our social media presence has seen a lot of photos of us and that we know how to have a photo taken of us.

And second, for the audition, I think the great thing about photos is that they're online and that you can see them anytime you want.

So that for any photographer we're going to audition, we can see all of the past weddings they've photographed.

We don't necessarily need to have new ones taken of us to audition them.

All right.

Thank you for that.

David Graham.

Yes, this guy came back with a good argument.

Did you know that both of the

couples

are both lawyers?

What?

Is that true?

That is correct.

Yes.

You're both attorneys?

Correct.

Correct.

What is your area of expertise, Justin?

I am a corporate and real estate attorney.

Okay, and Sarah?

I work in public interest litigation.

Yay, boo to the other guy.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

I object to my bailiffs.

I am not.

We're here to hear this case, not judge it.

Oh, wait a minute.

Yes, I am.

I'm precisely here to judge these people.

I'm used to that reaction.

Where do you live?

We live in Brooklyn.

Brooklyn, New York.

Corporate attorney and public interest attorney.

Yes.

Is this a rom-com?

Is this a rom-com that's being put out by the Disney studios sometime soon?

Sarah, is that what's going on?

I'm picturing like a Sandra Bullock and Ryan Reynolds vibe.

I can neither confirm nor deny.

All right.

Sarah, what part of Brooklyn do you guys live in?

We're in the Cobble Hill, Burham Hill area.

And let me tell you something right now.

This is anti-Buzz marketing.

You know that restaurant, Kittery?

Yes.

Yes.

Do you like it?

I've actually never been.

We've walked by it a lot.

I walked by it a lot because it's a main-themed restaurant.

Did you know that, Joel?

No, I didn't know there's such a thing as a Maine-themed restaurant.

Would they serve lobster?

Yeah, lobster rolls, you know, it's a huge deal in New York right now.

You can charge $3,500 for a lobster roll at the Brooklyn Fleet.

We're in Maine right now, you guys know, and I get lobster.

I don't know

where you're buying your lobster, Joel, but it's $4.55 a pound.

That's good.

Yeah.

It was $9 like two months ago.

Yeah, I don't know what's going on.

It's a lobster glut up here.

But I could take those lobsters, go down to Borum Hill, buy some Hellman's mayonnaise.

I'd make $3,500.

Make a fortune.

Make a fortune.

And I had such high hopes for this place called Kittery.

It's named after Kittery Maine.

I don't want to disparage what they're doing there.

So I will stop talking.

Sorry,

a little neighborly shop talk here.

And how long have you guys been affianced?

Since January.

Since January.

And when are you going to get married, Justin?

October 2017.

And you're in your 30s, is that right, both of you?

I'm about to, I'm about turning 30 in about a month.

Oh, well, happy birthday.

Thank you.

I hope no one takes your picture.

I hope so.

I hope so as well.

Do you have an aversion to photos of yourself, Justin?

Yeah, I will admit that I do not generally like

having having photos taken of myself.

I won't lie about that.

Sarah?

Yes.

Is Justin a good-looking guy or is he deformed in some way?

Well, I

think that he's a good-looking guy, and I think that's a relatively

objective judgment.

But I think it's true that he is not necessarily as comfortable, which I would argue means it's more important that we practice before the wedding.

Why do you think you're self-conscious about it, Justin?

I think part of it is I

guess

I'm not the thinnest person.

I mean, I have lost weight recently, but I think that is part of it going past.

I've not always been the thinnest person, which I did not like photos being taken of me.

Yeah.

You know, as someone who's not the thinnest person myself, it was a hard adjustment to being photographed professionally.

all the time and then seeing my big fat face on television.

You know, when I first saw those Apple ads come out, Dave and Graham, did you get those Apple ads in Canada?

Oh, delicious, yeah.

They went all the way over there?

Yeah, apples.

You can buy them here.

Yeah, Granny Smith.

All sorts.

Yeah, John Hodgman, Mr.

Granny Smith.

Grandpa Smith.

I got to check my contract.

Maybe they owe me some royalties.

I didn't know they were going up in there in Canada.

No, we don't have electricity here.

We're recording this on a wax cylinder.

In any case, when I first saw myself in those ads, I was like, oh, a whole lot of things about my life have got to change.

Because it's not merely the camera adds 10 pounds.

That's like because the Mercator projection of the globe isn't accurate.

That's true of any time you are turned from a 3D thing into a 2D thing.

But also, when you are looking at yourself in a mirror or in a reflection in a window, you are choosing your angle.

And when someone else is choosing the angle,

you don't look good.

Or you don't look the way you think you look.

So I feel you there, Justin.

Sure.

Sarah, you look fantastic.

Oh, why, thank you.

I agree.

I can just tell.

How long have you guys been dating?

Almost five years.

And

do you cohabitate there?

Yes, we do.

And you know my position on that.

Yes, I do.

I am aware.

You are aware of that.

my position dave and graham is i i dissuade people from living together before marriage not for moral reasons but because you are essentially entering into a financial partnership which is the worst part of marriage without any of the fun or protections of marriage and also you you get to do the walk over the threshold thing the carry over the threshold thing yeah we don't have that that's just in canada what we do we do it every time

But because you guys are both lawyers, I presume you have a pre-roomie contract, a roomie pre-nup.

Yes, of course.

Right.

We spend a lot of time negotiating it.

Do you guys negotiate in lawyerly fashion about stuff like what are you going to eat today or

what brand of mayonnaise to buy?

Not really.

Luckily, we try to keep work at work.

Do you guys talk to each other like Bill Murray talks to Francis McNormond in Moonrise Kingdom?

Neither of us, I don't think either of us have seen Moonrise Kingdom, actually.

We're 0 for 2 on movies today.

Oh, right.

I forgot that I kicked you out, and now I double kick you out.

Joel, have you seen Moonrise Kingdom?

No.

Oh, boy.

You know what?

I'm kicking myself out.

Graham, come with me.

Yep.

You've seen Moonrise Kingdom, right?

I saw it in the theater.

Yeah, that was a good movie.

You should see that.

As two attorneys who are going to be married to each other,

Well, maybe you shouldn't see it because it's about.

Yeah, I was going to say, that's maybe not the best film.

It gives you a future vision of

the charming way you will talk to each other as if you were both in court and also the inevitable infidelity.

Sorry.

Maybe it won't.

Maybe that's just one example of how it could go.

Just think of it that way.

Where would you have these photos taken, Sarah?

If I were to rule in your favor?

I would like to have them.

I'm not talking like a multiple-day five-wardrobe changes situation.

But, for instance, in Prospect Park or the Brooklyn Botanical Gardens or where we can get a lot of people.

Cliche, cliché.

Cliche.

Okay, no, I'm sorry.

I didn't realize I was talking out loud.

The place where we actually did get engaged, which is a little park in our neighborhood.

Which one?

What is it?

Is it Cowahill Park?

I think it's the name of the camera.

What if you said a restaurant called Kittery?

Yes, exactly.

He put the ring in a lobster roll.

It's a little park off Clinton Street.

And

why is it important to you to have these photos?

Aside from the practical measure, is there

a non-lawyerly answer where you actually speak from your heart that could explain why you want this to be done that maybe Justin could respond to?

Yes.

So I think that it's a, he

said that there were some photos of that night, and that's true.

But generally generally speaking, we don't have a whole lot of photos of us together that are just the two of us.

And I think that this is a really good time in our lives when we're, you know, we're engaged and we're planning our wedding and it would be fun to get together and have some really nice photos of us taken when I think we both look really good

to kind of commemorate.

us moving to New York and being here and planning everything.

So I think it's just a it's just a nice way to,

practical things aside, kind of celebrate everything.

Aaron Powell, Jr.: And there are photos taken of the night, Justin.

Is that true?

Of the actual day you got engaged?

There are photos of the night.

I don't think there are that many, and there are none of the actual

proposal itself.

It's just of the we went out to celebrate afterwards, and there are photos of that.

How come you have these photos?

Who took them?

Did you have friends along when you proposed to her?

Not when I proposed.

They were waiting at a bar nearby

after it was done.

So they knew, was it a surprise to Sarah when you proposed to her?

Yes, a huge surprise.

I had no idea.

Really?

Really?

So what happened?

What did he do?

He had our entire friend group involved.

It was the night of the blizzard in Brooklyn, the 23rd of January.

Sure.

The day that Hamilton was canceled.

Yes.

It should go down in history.

Our proposal will always be overshadowed.

And they,

he had one of our friends text and say she wanted to get together, but she couldn't get a drink until late that night.

So we agreed to meet at 10.

And then he told me that, you know, we should probably walk the dog before we go to the bar.

And we were walking the dog, and he kind of

made our way to that little park.

And he told me to turn around.

And

then he proposed, and I didn't have any idea what's going on.

Yeah, she claims to not remember the next 30 seconds or so, really, of what happened or what I said.

But you think she's lying?

No, I mean,

I'm not accusing her of lying, but

she does not remember the next 30 seconds.

What kind of dog do you have?

A little white mutt.

What is your little white mutt's name?

Otto.

Oh.

And how long have you had him?

Almost a year.

Last September.

Yeah, we adopted him last September.

This is your,

whose idea was it?

Sarah's?

Justin's.

Justin?

Yeah.

Actually, yes.

This is your audition child?

That's what all dogs of newlyweds are.

It's how you test to see if you can actually care about another thing.

Well, hopefully our children are better behaved.

Oh, I'm sure your children will be lovely if and when you have them.

And if and when you do, that will be the day you completely forget all about Otto.

This is the harsh wisdom of the future time.

Well, he's old, so he might not be around when that happens.

Oh, now.

Even harsher future.

Yeah.

So, Sarah, you want to replicate a blizzard for your photos, for your engagement photos?

You know what?

That actually would be a pretty good idea.

No, but having it taken place in the actual park,

that kind of thing.

It hadn't actually started snowing when he proposed.

So the weather itself was

not as much as remembering the moment and the place and the what little I can remember

of that time.

And how much time out of the day would this take

for Justin?

I can't imagine that we'd want to spend more than a couple hours on like a weekend afternoon.

Justin, is that an egregious amount of time?

Is that an unreasonable amount of time to ask you to do something?

No, I don't think the amount of time is what I would object to.

I don't think it's an egregious, we do, I've done plenty of things that are that length of time that I don't enjoy.

Yeah, that's called marriage.

We're not quite there yet.

But do you understand what marriage is, right, Justin?

I do.

Some, some, yeah, that's right.

We're already doing the vows right now.

I, you know, as a rule, I've been asked a couple of times as a fake internet judge to officiate marriages, and I'm like, no, I won't do it because your marriage is not a joke.

But

if I were ever to do it, I think the entire vows would be, you guys understand what marriage is, right?

And you would have both say, I do.

And I'm like, all right, go for it.

If I were to rule in your favor, Justin, though, you would have me say

to Sarah.

Yeah, I'd request a permanent injunction banning us from

having any engagement photos taken by a professional photographer or an amateur photographer.

Why didn't you guys send me a picture from your actual engagement?

I looked down the docket here.

It says no evidence.

I guess I didn't think that was evidence one way or the other, but I guess it was just an oversight.

Would you prefer to even have that photo destroyed or buried?

No, I don't think that photo is.

I like that photo.

Dave Shemka.

Yes, sir.

You're a married man.

Listeners to this podcast may know that I visited your home to be on your podcast and met your

lovely wife and child and dog.

Yes.

You have managed to not forget your dog, even though you have an adorable baby

that my wife is a big fan of on Instagram.

Yes.

I often catch my wife looking at photos of your child on Instagram.

And she often says to me, don't we don't you have some business in vancouver i'm like don't is there some reason that we can go to vancouver i'm like you just want to see you just want to see that baby you're a fan of

i don't blame her i want to see her and i i i i get to all the time

fantastic baby fantastic uh family and i apologize graham because you're utterly alone in the world and i'm i need to exclude you from this portion of the conversation because we've got to talk about married stuff for a sec yeah but i i i have have shut up, Graham.

Although you are the one who saw both Moonrise Kingdom and The Masters, so you're not.

Oh, I got so much time.

Yeah, you're already.

Yeah, what am I talking about?

You're best bailiff.

I should have bumped you up an hour ago.

Yeah.

Best bailiff for seeing the movies.

Now go take a victory lap so I can talk to the man.

Dave.

Yeah.

Lay it on me, John.

What do you think about this engagement photo stuff?

You got something to add?

We didn't do engagement photos.

I've never heard of it before this time.

You've never heard of it?

No.

I mean,

had my wife, then fiancé, brought it up, I believe my answer would have been really

just sort of just floating that I'm not into this.

Uh-huh.

But,

and the idea that, look, it's a good argument to get some practice in before your wedding photos, but your photographer is not going to be taking one photo.

You're going to be parsing through thousands of images of the two of you on your wedding day.

I see.

And is this a big thing?

Is this just a Canadian thing that's engaged?

I've never heard of it.

Joel, have you ever heard of it?

Well, you look in the papers and you see announcements and they have pictures.

Oh, that's true.

Joel raises a good point.

Are you guys going to put your picture in the New York Times?

Sarah?

Is that what you're after?

Fame?

that is not what I'm after

at all.

I have no real preference regarding the Times or not.

What do you want Justin to wear in the photo?

Whatever he wants to wear, whatever he's comfortable in.

Well, what does that mean he's going to wear?

I was about to say, now I'm a little concerned.

I mean,

slacks and a shirt.

Depends what the season is.

You want these photos to be like goofy, like barefoot jumping or like serious hand holdy staring into the camera or phony candid or

look we're look we're trying on clothes what is what's the mood yeah makeover montage

i mean i think this is where you can be what you make of it right so there are lots of engagement photos and we used to you know make fun of some of them that are really really corny they're peeking around trees at each other and

that kind of thing and that is not at all what i'm looking for

I just think that some professionally done pictures of us looking nice would be a nice thing.

Do you know what you would like to wear in your engagement photos?

I would probably wear some kind of dress, but I don't have anything particular in mind.

No.

All right.

So you have not art-directed this within an inch of its life in your imagination?

Not at all.

No.

All right.

Do you have a photographer in mind?

No.

We've started looking at wedding photographers, but haven't made any inquiries or decisions yet.

Aaron Powell, Jr.: And would this just go into a photo album or would it be used for other things?

So one thing that I think they can be really useful for are save the dates up to the wedding

or also on your wedding website.

Oftentimes, you know, there's lots of space for photos and most of ours are not.

I don't want to say they're not cohesive because I don't think you need cohesive photos to be nice, but

they wouldn't be necessarily appropriate to present to your entire family and friends.

They're just all goofy.

So, some nicer.

I thought you were saying they were nudes.

That's why I wanted to correct myself.

I got you.

And, Justin, you say that Sarah is a hypocrite because when couples send you their engagement photos on a save the date card or whatever, she just laughs and laughs at them and said, What a bunch of dopes.

Is that not so?

I think, I mean,

we've seen certain engagement on certain save the dates where we've definitely laughed and kind of rolled our eyes at them.

I don't, I just, on the opposite side, I don't want them on our save the dates, which not just in general.

I don't generally like save the dates that have photos on them.

I just

think that just plain invites look better.

I see.

May I ask a question?

Please.

By the way, is Graham still taking a victory lap around the courthouse?

I'm still running.

We gave him a wireless laugh.

My question is: are you guys, have you announced your engagement on Facebook?

We announced it.

We had one photo from the day after that we posted on Facebook, but we are in the middle of the blizzard.

In the middle of the blizzard.

Have you changed your relationship status to engaged?

We do not have a relationship status.

Oh, okay.

Because one thing I noticed is when I did that, I became bombarded with all of the ads on the sidebars on Facebook just become about wedding things.

So I was wondering if maybe you were just

getting the suggestion of many photographers coming at you

with

offers.

No, I haven't been brainwashed by the Facebook ads quite yet.

Follow-up question.

How many likes did your engagement get?

I think around 200.

pretty good that's pretty good how many people will be invited to your wedding

only the 200 that liked the photo yeah

that's right corporate attorney right there

sarah where are you going to be married we're going to be married in brooklyn do you know do you have a location yes we do at the old williamsburg savings bank under the williamsburg bridge oh sure fantastic you're going to have the reception at peter lugers

you know

still an option.

I like the way you're thinking so far.

So, yes, I accept I will be there.

What is the date?

Next October.

We'll send the invite in the mail.

Next October?

So you mean October 2017?

Correct.

Oh.

Oh.

Justin, do you want to lose a little bit more weight before photos are taken of you?

Yeah, probably.

What are you doing?

I'm trying to eat healthier and I've been running.

Good for you.

Running is hard.

It is very hard.

The best part is stopping.

The only diet tip that ever worked for me, Justin, and I'll pass it along to you.

If you do with it what you will, everyone's different.

Everyone's metabolism is different.

And different things work for different people.

But one thing that really changed the game for me is it's called the, I can't, I'm don't swear on this podcast.

So the don't eat so freaking much diet,

which was, that's actually an Elizabeth Gilbert joke from way back.

But it, it really is,

people will say it's not about calories in, calories out so much.

There's a lot of other stuff going on.

But

when I basically stopped eating breakfast and lunch except for a snack in the middle of the day, my whole life changed.

I lost a lot of weight and I realized what real hunger is and how you can manage it with just a little bit of food rather than sitting down and eating a whole, you know, a whole bowl of pasta or whatever.

Sure.

Okay, that's just, I'm just helping if I can.

And so, Sarah, what is the date of your wedding again?

October what exactly?

October of 2017.

All right.

I'm penciling it in.

I can't make any promises.

Dave and Graham?

We'll be there.

Yep.

I'm leaving the baby at home, though.

Oh.

Oh, yeah, that's fair.

Bring the dog.

Joel?

Have they picked their wedding DJ yet?

Yeah.

Do you need a DJ from Maine?

I think we have a band picked out.

Almost.

Yeah, well, let me ask you a question.

How do you feel about psychedelic bands like Moby Grape?

What's that other band, Joel, that you like?

Joe Bird and the Field Hippies.

Joe Bird and the Field Hippies.

What would be a good wedding dance for Joe Bird?

Like, you know, first dance?

Never come down.

Never come down.

Ah, this is going to be great.

We are looking for a song for our first dance.

Joe Bird and the Field Hippies, or what was the other one?

The Grape Conspiracy?

The Electric Prunes?

The Electric Prunes.

Ultimate Spinach.

Ultimate Spinach.

Ultimate Spinach.

What's a good song from Ultimate Spinach for the, like, say, the father-daughter dance, if that's a thing you're going to do?

Their hit was the funky freak parade, so I don't know if that would work.

Lock it in, Joel.

Lock it in.

I think I've heard everything I need to make my decision.

I'm going into my private booth at Kittery Restaurant in the Boreham Hill area, Gobble Hill area, and I'll be back in a moment to make my decision.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

So, guys,

as a couple of lawyers, did you do a mock trial or anything before this?

With your dog as the judge?

We should have, really.

The dog's not very nice, so I'm not sure he would have ruled in favor on either of us.

Well, if one of you put pepperoni sticks in your pocket.

There we go.

Bribery, it always gets your way.

For the engagement photos, have either of you seen like those funny photos of like a couple, like they get attacked by zombies halfway through their engagement photos?

Something like really wacky like that would you be in favor of something like that just as a fun couples activity

I think I would still be against it I think those are some of the ones we roll our eyes at

fair enough

do you in like elementary school did you ever have those pictures taken with like a laser background

no yes

those were awesome right I'd be pro that oh I am so there's some wiggle room.

Yeah, yeah.

We're bringing people together.

Is that

engagement photos and then wedding photos, and then that's it until death?

Death photo?

Oh, you do funeral photos.

Funeral photos?

I think that's it.

I don't think we're going to have any photos in between.

No family photos, nothing.

He's anti-all photos.

Are there anniversary photos?

If you guys made it, say, to the 25-year mark, then would you do a photo shoot?

The zombies attack you.

Yeah, yeah.

No, I don't think so.

If we had a party, maybe we'd have people take photos of the party.

Oh, now he's on the front side.

Cheese again.

Oh, boy.

It's situational.

We'll be back with the judge's decision on Judge John Hodgman after the break.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

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Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

You may be seated.

I really enjoy talking to you guys, and I think you're going to have a good time being married.

And I'm glad that I enjoyed talking to you because this one was decided within two minutes of you guys coming in here.

Because what Sarah says is absolutely correct and not only correct, but it never occurred to me that argument of getting used to having your photo taken

and

getting used to a photographer.

That makes so much sense.

And whether or not she's sincere when she makes those arguments, or it's just something she came up with in an attorney-like fashion to trick me into making Justin do what she wants, it was incredibly well argued and really resonated with me.

And I think it also resonated with Justin

because you could hear how strenuously he was denying that none of that mattered.

Because Justin doesn't like to have his photo taken.

And I don't blame him for all the things I said before.

Having your photo taken is a skill.

And snapshots and selfies is not the same thing as getting comfortable in front of a moving image camera or still image camera and getting beyond that self-consciousness.

And also learning, and in this case, a good photographer will help you, learning your angles, learning how to take a photo that flatters your best self.

You stick your chin out a little bit, you know, pick your best side, that kind of thing.

And the argument that Justin made that he's had his photos taken a lot of time is like, yeah, they've been taken, but clearly always under duress by you.

And you probably don't like the way you look in them because you were self-conscious when they were taken and you're self-conscious while you're looking at them.

And in general, anything in life that makes you a little bit anxious or afeared is something you should confront and get beyond.

And I'm not saying that you're a scared dude because you're a corporate lawyer.

You could probably destroy me.

But I'm just saying

that the very fact that this is a block for you is precisely the reason why you should smash through it.

That's what Philip Seymour Hoffman would say pretending to be an amalgam of L.

Ron Hubbard.

That's some true life advice for you.

Boom.

Just audited you.

And then the other argument's like, but we don't need to audition a photographer because we're seeing their stuff online.

Oh,

that is so wrong.

You have no idea.

Because a photographer is always going to have or not have a rapport with you that will make a real difference, both in your comfort level and in the outcome.

You know, some photographers take really pretty pictures of big groups or whatever, but it might be the case where, and they might seem really nice in person, but it might be the case where they get to your wedding and they're just taking pictures of the back of your neck.

Like my wedding.

It's basically all the photos of my wife and I.

Photographers like couldn't photograph us from the front to save his life.

He's just too shy.

He's too shy to get in there.

Maybe he thought that was your angle.

Yeah.

And he may have been right.

Here's one guy who is never going to be on camera.

And you may notice I'm doing a podcast now and I'm not on television.

So there you go.

Could have been absolutely correct.

But for both of those reasons, I mean, I think that those are profound.

Not only

is this an opportunity to do something that makes your future wife happy, which should be a priority in your life, as it should be a priority in her life to make you happy.

But it is also, I think, exactly what Sarah suggested: a profoundly practical way to

audition a photographer and get over your resistance to photographs.

That said, Justin,

you are entirely right

that engagement photos,

and I'm sure I'm going to offend some friends now, but in my opinion, and in this court's opinion, engagement photos on invitations, on save the dates

are

attacky.

and you are basically inviting your friends to make fun of you physically.

That's not what you want.

Tastefully designed Save the Dates and invitations

convey so much class, and photos really convey a whole lot of like Christmas card letter feel.

It just feels junky to me.

And others may disagree, but insofar as you see that I am about to rule in Sarah's favor, it comes with this order and caveat.

As a concession to you, Justin, no photos on the invitations or the save of the dates or anything like that.

Now,

what are the photos going to consist of?

We have to be considerate of Justin's time and we have to be considerate of the actual practical purpose that this photo shoot will serve.

So,

I am going to order almost maximum pain for Justin, unfortunately, because Sarah made this argument, and you can hold this against her for the rest of your life.

This was to audition a photographer.

And auditioning one person is not the purpose of an audition, does not serve the function of an audition.

You need to do at least two.

And I'm going to order three.

Not one, not two, but three

photo sessions that will last no more than two hours spread out

between now and

let's say the anniversary of your engagement.

Then you'll have seen three photographers and you're going to know which one you

like and you're going to know which one you hate, and you're going to have conversations about both.

And when this investment of your time is going to make this wedding photography experience when it comes so much more,

what's the word for it?

Dave and Graham.

Good.

Yeah, good.

Yeah, good.

It's going to be so much gooder.

You're not even going to believe it.

Sounds like I'm running for president all of a sudden.

But these sessions are going to be short.

They're going to be two hours,

three weekends, two hours each one.

And

it can be in different locations.

But each one has to be one location.

You can't be going from location to location on the shoot.

Just get in there, get through it, and then go have a drink at that bar and take a selfie of yourselves or whatever.

You know what I mean?

The third one should be a recreation of your engagement.

But you can do what you want, but this is my suggestion.

The third one should be a recreation of your engagement.

And then one is a location of his choice, and one is a location of her choice.

And

then maybe I'm thinking about ordering a fourth at the restaurant called Kittery.

I don't want to bust that place anymore.

I just want to say there are lots of good restaurants in Brooklyn.

In any case,

such is my ruling.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge Sean Hodgman rules that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

How do each of you feel about this decision?

I am not surprised.

This is basically what I was expecting, but I'm very happy.

I think one of my main objections was that, and I'm probably going to be uninvited to a bunch of weddings, was that it wouldn't go on the Save the Dates.

So I'm happy about that.

And Sarah, how do you feel?

I feel like this was a very fair outcome, and I'm hoping that both of us will be happy with how it turns out.

Do you regret winning now that you have to do three of them?

Not at all.

I think this is going to be a great exercise.

And if we can get through this, we can get through anything.

Well, we wish you the best and many happy returns on your marriage.

Thank you very much.

Thanks.

You know, we've been doing My Brother, My Brother, Me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no.

No, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no.

It's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lom.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Dave and Graham, Shumka and Clark, respectively.

Those are your last names.

Nailed it.

Thank you.

You co-host a delightful podcast called Stop Podcasting Yourself,

which is released weekly, any particular day of the week?

We do Monday afternoons.

Monday afternoon, very civilized.

People can go to Maximum Fun, Phone, find it,

subscribe to it.

Every Monday afternoon, you're going to get a really fun, engaging conversation between David Graham and a guest.

Yeah, a loosey-goosey conversation.

A guest, sometimes it's a John Hodgman, maybe it's a Paul F.

Tompkins.

Sometimes it's some Canadian person you've never heard of.

But we'll learn to love just all the same.

You guys know how much I love Canada.

And I've been introduced to more really funny Canadian people through your show.

show.

And it's such a wonderful picture of Canada.

It makes me want to move there.

And probably a lot of us will be moving there soon.

So it's a good

entree into Canadian lifestyle.

We'll make up a room for you.

Thank you very much.

I'm sure my wife would love to live in Dave's house with his baby.

Yeah.

And Graham, you and I can live together and watch movies.

That would be so great.

So who named this episode, guys?

Thank you to Maxwell Grant for naming this week's episode, Motion to Strike a Pose.

And thank you to Jennifer Marmer, our ABLE producer, for producing this so ably and also putting in touch with Argo Studio in New York City.

Who do we have to thank in Argo Studio?

We have Paul Ruest, if I'm pronouncing that correctly.

Oh, I've worked with him before.

When I'm in New York, but I'm not in New York.

I'm here in East Orland, Maine at the studios of WERU-FM Community Radio, 89.9 FM in Blue Hill, 99.9 in Bangor and on the web at WERU.org.

Joel Mann is our guest engineer.

He's sitting right across to me.

Say hello and goodbye, Joel.

Hello, goodbye.

Joel will be laying down bass with his jazz trio every Tuesday at the Pentago at 5 to 8.

That's in Castine, Maine, here on the Blue Hill Peninsula.

You guys going to come and check it out or what?

Of course.

Yeah.

Save me a lobster roll.

Yeah, you can get one here for not $3,500, let me tell you.

There's a law in Maine about how frequently you can serve lobster rolls to your servants.

You can't serve them only once a week.

And is this music he's playing psychedelic?

Jazz.

Psychedelic jazz.

Ooh, I'm in.

Yeah.

Or you can catch Joel DJing Justin and Sarah's wedding next October at the Williamsburg Savings Bank.

Remember, kids, keep the dosing low.

It's still a wedding, even though it's going to have some incredible music.

Judge John Hodgman is going on tour.

You've probably heard me say it many, many times.

Almost all the venues are sold out at this point.

I think

if you're in Portland, Maine, or Turner's Falls, Massachusetts, or even Boston, Massachusetts, we still have some tickets available.

If you come to all three of them, there's a special meet-and-greet for New England weirdos who do that.

I would love to see you guys.

And there's a regular meet and greet for everyone who comes to any of the shows after the show.

And please please come see us in London if you're listening in London at the London Podcast Festival.

All of the details, of course, are at maximumfund.org on the events sidebar.

That's where you find our podcast each and every week.

And if you have a thought to go ahead and review it on iTunes or your other favorite podcasting review thing, that helps.

And just generally stay in touch because I enjoy hearing from you.

And soon we'll be back to normal, Joel.

I'll be leaving Maine.

That's very sad, Judge.

I know.

We'll miss you.

Yeah, and I'll be going

back to Brooklyn, New York.

Regular bailiff Jesse Thorne will be back.

Obviously, he'll be with me on all of the live shows, as well as lots of special guests.

And you can always follow along at maximumfund.org on the Judge Sean Hodgman page or my own,

what's it called?

Gravendam?

Website?

Website, johnhodgman.com.

Do we have anything else to say, guys?

Thanks for having us.

God bless.

And Joel?

It's been real.

Yeah, all right.

It has been real.

Thanks very much, guys.

See you next time on the Judge Sean Hodgman podcast.

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