The Night to Remain Silent

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, The Night to Remain Silent.

Ian brings the case against his girlfriend NieMe over her habit of memorizing her lines at bedtime.

Nie has found in her acting experience that memorizing her lines as she falls asleep is the best way for her to remember them.

Ian, however, finds it too hard to sleep when she does this, and he wishes for the bedroom to be a work-free zone.

Who's right, who's wrong, only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents the obscure cultural reference.

No, please, don't stop on my account.

Just because you're being investigated doesn't mean you shouldn't fumble around and try to do a podcast.

Wait, why are we being investigated?

The Judge John Hodgman podcast has been compromised.

I will be spearheading the investigation to root out the traitor.

You know about this, Jen?

Yes.

Well, perhaps we'll learn producer Jennifer Marmor had good reason not to trust you, Jesse.

Every closet has its skeleton.

I look forward to meeting all of yours.

And just to show you that no one is above suspicion, Bailiff Jesse, you're up first.

Swear them in.

Please rise.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever?

I do.

We do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he never memorizes any of his lines?

In fact, he just goes on set and says whatever he wants because he believes it brings liveliness to his scenes.

I do.

Yup.

Very well.

Judge Hodgman?

Ian, Yeme, you may be seated.

If you want someone who's going to remember all the words, hire an actor.

If you want someone who's going to remember,

on average, 87.5% of the words, I'm your man.

Or a woman.

Or a woman.

I don't know why I had to bring gender into it.

Hire a former professional literary critic.

Exactly right.

Ian and Nieime, for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, can either of you name the cultural reference that I referenced as I entered the courtroom.

Niehe, you have been brought to this court against your will by Ian, so you have first chance to guess, or you can

boot it over to him and make him guess, and perhaps you will gain some information from his guess.

What is your choice, Nian?

I think I want to boot it over to him, see if I can

gain some insight.

Yeah, all right.

Go ahead, Ian.

What's your guess?

I'm not sure, but I'm gonna just go ahead and guess.

Maybe CSI Miami or something like that.

That's definitely a guess.

Put it on the board.

CSI Miami.

All right, it's up on the board.

What about you, Niamey?

Oh, I want to guess, like Judge Judy.

That's also a guess.

Putting it on the board.

Put it on the board.

All right.

I've got a very big board here that's a new part of my chambers.

It's the old marquee from the Coolidge Corner Theater in Coolidge Corner, Massachusetts.

And we have to put up the letters by hand with a long claw.

So it takes about

45 minutes to get them up there on the board.

We'll just use magic editing to fast forward.

Ba-da-doo.

Okay, they're all on the board.

Let me see.

CSI Miami and Judge Duty.

Well,

all guesses are wrong.

You can now take them off the board, Intern.

Judge Hodgman, is that a song now?

Yeah.

Cool.

I auto-tuned myself.

Ian and Yaimi were both wrong.

But Ian, you were closer than Yeame, which gets you nothing.

I, of course,

was paraphrasing the other

number one best network thriller show on a different network called Blind Spot, created by Martin Garrow.

Sorry, I missed my cue to go.

It's like we're all solving a mystery together.

It's like I'm leading an inquest here and revealing

the murderer at an inquest in an old-time English mansion.

Specifically, I was referencing episode 113.

Specifically, I was referencing Office of Professional Responsibility Agent Chief Inspector Jonas Fisher, who came into the FBI's New York office to root out a mole.

I suppose you guys have not seen Blind Spot, or else you would know that Chief Inspector Jonas Fisher was played by John Hodgman.

Those were some lines.

I had to memorize.

And boy, oh boy, when I heard that this was an episode about line memorization, I immediately remembered that I had lines in that show and I didn't remember the lines.

So here's the thing:

you both are going to prison, but also

we are going to hear this case.

So Ian brings a case against Nieame.

Ian, you complain that Nieame, who is your

wife, friend, partner,

partner.

Yeah.

Partner.

Romantic partner.

Romantic partner.

And cohabitant?

yes.

Cohabitant without marriage?

Not right.

I mean, it's kind of complicated.

We were, and then we're moving to New York.

So currently we're not, but we will be in about a month again.

Oh, okay.

Oh, you're moving to New York.

Welcome aboard.

Yes.

Where are you moving from?

San Diego.

All right.

So San Diego.

So what the problem, though, is that when you go to bed together in the same room to sleep quietly, a foot apart from each other, because this is a family-friendly podcast, Niamey does something that drives you bonkers, which is what?

So she memorizes lines and speaks them out loud and rehearses them while in bed with the light on while I'm trying to sleep.

And what's weird is Niamey is an accountant and not an actor.

Isn't that right, Niame?

This is just a hobby.

Right.

She hated the acclaim and artistic expression of acting, but loved that line memorization.

Drudgery is the best part of any job.

Yep.

That's what you're a member anyway.

Nieme, you are an actor, though.

Is that not so?

That is correct.

All right.

Now, where are you both in the world?

We're in right now in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Oh, okay.

I thought you were in San Diego.

Well, we were in San Diego and we're moving across country.

And for a little bit, we're staying with both of our families, coincidentally, who are both from Milwaukee.

So we're with them.

Oh, I see.

You're not in some traveling theater brigade.

You're not caravanning about the country doing

Midsummer's Night's Dream?

Not yet.

That would be awesome.

Did the two of you meet in San Diego and it's just a coincidence that your families are from Milwaukee?

No.

So, all right, it's complicated.

So we both went to school in Chicago at Loyal University of Chicago and then

moved out to San Diego and then now we're moving to New York.

That's not that complicated.

Yeah, you really overstated the amount of complications.

We met in an a cappella group.

That's what you forgot to mention.

You could have just summarized that by saying, we're traveling dorks.

There is a lot of backstory to this play, I have to say.

But I heard a cappella somewhere in there at Niami.

What's the acapella group you guys met at?

Yeah, we met in an acapella group, actually.

He auditioned for

the group, and I was one of the people he was auditioning for, and we let him in.

He was pretty cool.

Well, this is obviously in college where a cappella is not the most embarrassing thing to do.

That is so correct.

Depends on the correct.

Look, I say that as the star of Pitch Perfect 2.

Acapella had been very good to me.

Don't get me wrong.

So what was the acapella group that you were auditioning for, Ian, that Niamey was in?

Is that correct?

Yeah, it was called Loyola Capella.

Loyola Capella.

And what was your audition song?

I had two.

One was Tempted by Squeeze, and then the other one was Hold On by Michael Bouble.

Obviously, you're going to do one of those, and it's not Bouble.

Let's go.

Yes.

Oh, no.

Well, wait a minute.

Was when you guys were in it together,

you guys served as Loya Capellas together?

Yes.

Thank you for your service.

Well, then, I'm not letting Yami off the hook.

What was the song that you guys would do together?

Well, Ian actually arranged Falling Slowly from the movie

by Glenn Hansard, and we actually sang that together.

Okay, let's go.

Do it.

Oh, no.

Do it, or I find you both in contempt.

Do you remember the words?

If it helps, before you start, you can go.

Me, me, me.

Me, me, me, me, me.

Oh, man, it's been a while.

Ian.

Did you hear Ian asking her, do you remember the words?

And what did Niamey say?

Yes.

Yes.

That's right.

Because she's a trained actor.

That's right.

That's right.

All right.

I don't know you,

but

I want

you

all the more

for that.

Words fall through me and always

fool me.

And I can

react.

Two different keys here.

You have suffered enough

and mourned with yourself.

It's time that you want.

Take this sinking boat.

You forgot your harmony.

Yeah, we need a pitch pipe in here.

You guys sounded beautiful.

I still got goosebumps.

Yeah.

Oh, thank you.

Wow.

There's actually kind of a funny story about that song.

Yeah, I don't want to hear that.

All right.

No, all right, fine.

Go ahead, Ian, with your funny story.

Well, we had a temporary break, and that's when we actually got the song and had to perform it together.

So it was a little awkward.

You were saying that you broke up and then got the love duet?

Yeah.

Exactly.

Well, you know, that's what happens, though.

Temporary breaks, they just occur.

You get a letter from the government saying you guys have to to take a temporary break.

It's nobody's fault, but get ready to sing a song together.

We are going so, so, so into deep background here, and I'm enjoying it a lot, but we do need to move forward.

I am excited about the idea of them getting a letter from the government the other day.

I read it, and it said I have to do a love duet from the movie at once.

So I called them all suckers.

Yeah, that's right.

It's called a cappella duty.

Everyone gets called in.

If you're registered to vote, you might have to go do a acapella for the government.

You have to serve on an a cappella jury once, or you have to come back every four years and do it three days, sit in the jury in the a cappella pool for three days.

That's how it works.

As long as I get a pitch pipe.

Yeah.

So

think about

how that didn't go well and how it will go well later in this broadcast.

But for now,

I want to ask about your temporary break.

But question: was it because Nye Mei mutters her lines as she falls asleep every night?

It was not, no.

Oh, well, all right.

You seem to have other problems with her as well.

Anyway, you guys are,

I can't solve all your problems, but I will, and I will not solve this one either, but I will make a ruling.

So

you lived together at some point in San Diego?

Yeah, for a year.

And Nyame would practice her lines as she fell asleep, and presumably you guys slept in the same bed.

Is that correct?

Correct.

Correct.

And now you are caravanning across the country to move to New York City and Ian is concerned that this habit will happen again.

Is that correct?

Correct.

Ian, you are also an actor?

I am not.

No.

I'm essentially a social worker.

Oh, well, you sang very well for a social worker.

Thank you.

Well, for essentially a social worker.

What does that mean?

Yeah, that's a good point.

I'm unlicensed, but I'm going to school so that I can become licensed.

Oh, you're a wildcat social worker.

A rogue social worker who lives outside the boundaries of common practice.

There's a lot of us.

Watch out.

So, Nye Mei, is it likely that you will be muttering your lines in bed once you guys relocate to New York City?

That is correct.

And I'm glad that you use the word muttering.

Oh, well, thank you very much.

Why is muttering a meaningful word to you?

Because muttering is a little more like the words are almost like white noise rather than actually speaking them out loud.

Like I'm speaking Shakespearean text and he's, you know, wide awake.

But muttering, I feel like, assumes white noise.

And so essentially you're saying that you going over your lines at night is something that he should pay for in an app to listen to to help you.

Are you suggesting that you're a professional ASMR artist?

Right.

Thanks for bringing that back to give me tingles on my scalp.

All right.

So let's just talk a little bit about your process, Niamey, because it is more than just your habit.

It is your process of learning lines.

That's correct.

Okay.

How long have you been muttering to yourself as you fall asleep?

I've been doing this for the past 11 years.

It's actually

something I've developed since I was 14 years old.

Well, guess what?

I can do math, and now I know what your age is, but I'm not going to say what it is.

I am the world's greatest detective, but I'm not going to say what your age is because I don't have to prove nothing to no one.

Ain't no thing.

So you've been doing it for 11 years.

of actors training.

Yes.

And why do you do it?

What is the benefit to you?

Because I'll tell you something.

I've never done it.

It never occurred to me to do it.

I do all my muttering walking around the streets and in the shower.

And that way I am utterly alone or people on the street think I'm crazy.

But I've never thought to do it in bed.

How did you develop this process?

Well, you know, when I was in high school, it was one of those habits that just formed where it's like, I have to memorize lines.

I'm going to sleep.

And then when I woke up the next morning, I realized that a lot of my lines had been memorized by doing it right before I went to sleep.

So it actually became a really good habit.

And now I've realized that when I'm lying in my bed comfortably, as soon as I feel like I've memorized enough, I just roll over, turn off the light.

And it's the last thing I do.

And then when I wake up, it's the very first thing that I do.

And it is so helpful.

And it helps me memorize my lines because, you know, when we jump into rehearsal, the lines, we need to be off book pretty much that we can connect with our stage partner and just really be there and be present in the room rather than fumbling in our scripts and things like that.

So it's very important for me to be off-book.

And so this method has worked.

As a sometime actor myself, I know the value of actually knowing your lines because I've worked with people who do know their lines and it's pretty impressive.

It's not something I've ever done.

But then I don't have to

because

I tend to work in filmed acting, where there are lots of opportunities to go over the lines again and again and again.

Whereas it sounds to me like you are more interested in stage acting.

Is that correct?

Well, currently, well, I was trained on the stage, and I'm actually

assigned with an agency, and I'm actually trying to break into film and television right now.

That's actually my current interest.

So your big move to New York is overall acting in all fields.

What's your dream as an actor?

Oh, man, my dream as an actor would be to work with really phenomenal people in a collaborative space,

like-minded, and we're all trying to, you know, we're all about the script and the characters.

Boring.

Yeah,

I think we're kind of looking more for like how many figures on the page actor.

Well, you know,

that's definitely in there.

I would love the flexibility and the comfortability as well.

So, you know, of course, but

it sounds as though you want to move on from the stage.

Do you want to be in TV shows?

Do you want to be in

movies?

I mean, there, there are a lot of opportunities for actors of very high caliber now in television.

And then also independent movies, but in many ways, a more successful career can be found in television because there's so much of it and so much of it is reliant on good acting because they're making it for grown-ups and they're not just making thrill rides for tweens.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm not trying to offer you career advice here, but have you thought about a role on Lion Spot created by Martin Garrow?

Yes, my agent has told me about that show, which is really exciting.

It's good to know that you were on it.

Well, maybe I'll put in a word for you with Martin Garrow, the creator of the show, depending on how this ruling goes.

Wow, it sounds like the stakes just got higher, Judge Hodgman.

It's some courtroom casting.

No,

I'll, you know what?

I'm going to see Martin on Sunday.

I'll let him know you're out there.

That would be amazing.

You sang part of the song.

I think you can probably do it.

Also, I can't ever be on that show again, so it's not competition to me.

So why not help?

Although I'm pretty sure we would be going up for the same role no matter what.

I'm pretty sure.

I'm pretty sure.

Yeah, that's right.

So why are you now just I gotta say, why are you moving to you you I presume you studied acting in San Diego.

Is that why you were out there?

I did.

I was training at the UC San Diego's MFA training program.

It's a joint with the La Jolla Playhouse.

Oh, well, that's a big deal, La Jolla Playhouse.

Yeah, and we actually had a big showcase with NYU this past April, and that's where I was really lucky, and I was able to pick up my

manager and my agent.

So I'm pretty happy.

And so I'm moving to New York, so I can pursue this full-time.

It's the real deal.

Congratulations on that.

And why New York and not L.A.?

I think for me right now, I want to continue to do both theater and television film.

And just in terms of energy-wise, it just seems like the right place for me right now at my age.

Oh, yeah, well, for sure.

Well, it's very exciting that you're moving to New York and you're going to star on Blind Spot, created by Martin Garrow.

That's right.

I'm so excited.

But you can appreciate that Ian

is a little trepidatious about your muttering, both at night, and you didn't even mention in the morning.

Why does his sleep not matter?

That's a great question.

Why I only ask the great ones.

Because you appreciate that this is something you started doing in your teenage years when you presumably were sleeping at home alone in your room.

And now you are sharing a space, the most intimate space, the bedroom.

with

your beloved.

And he has already said, that really drives me crazy.

And you're saying to him, it does not matter.

My process is more important than your social work.

Thank you.

Well, I want to start by saying that I've been very considerate and not using the dome light, you know, the one that's big on the ceiling.

I have designated my portion of the room and I've put a nice little lamp right next to my bed.

So there's not a huge shining light next to him.

Actually, if he just rolls over, he literally can't see the light.

You're telling me that I should give you extra consideration because you don't have the overhead light on in the bedroom?

The first thing that should happen in your life is that all overhead lights in the bedroom are removed with a shotgun.

You're just saying, yeah,

I only keep on my bedside table lamp.

Which is fine if you're reading a novel to yourself, but not if you're reading a novel aloud, as it were.

You can appreciate why this would be distracting to an aspiring young social worker.

Yes, I can appreciate it, but I also know that when I speak out loud, it's pretty much like whispering, and it's pretty much just like the sound of wind coming.

It's just white noise.

And to me, I think that's really helpful.

I'm like, you should be able to go to sleep.

Well, you do have a wonderful voice.

And I'm sorry for the sake of your future in New York that Ian is already sick of your voice and takes it for granted.

But maybe I haven't heard the exact tenor or soprano or whisper sound, as it were, of your muttering voice.

So you got some lines or some text that you can give me an idea of what this sounds like?

I do.

I'm going to sit here in my chambers and close my eyes.

I'm just going to try to drift off.

Good night.

Hey, I was talking with Leah, and I think we're gonna need more light.

Fine, if you want Larry to look like a Frankenstein monster, we'll just use the sun.

Look, it's none of my business, but just once, don't you want to make something that's great?

Something that will be remembered forever?

Give me an hour, and I can make this parking lot look like a cathedral.

I know, I can't take it.

I can't take it.

It sounds like you're having a secret phone conversation talking about the weirdest, most interesting things.

Talking about turning someone into a Frankenstein and building a cathedral.

So it's worse than if you were just talking out loud.

It just feels like,

what am I missing?

Do the two of you ever run lines together?

Good question, Jesse.

Yeah, we do.

Yeah.

Yes.

But it doesn't work as well?

I prefer not to do them in bed.

So I'll run lines with her in the living room or something, but not in the bedroom usually.

And so when I memorize in bed, those are the times when Ian is not available or would prefer not to help me.

So I have to resort to myself talking to myself.

Right.

Right.

That happens to all of us in bed sometimes.

Yeime.

Which is more effective for you, running lines with a partner or your ritual of muttering in bed to yourself?

I would prefer running my lines consistently before bed.

But to get to that point, I would need a partner consistently to do that with me.

And as amazing as Ian is.

Yeah, maybe you'll find that person someday.

But yes, I do prefer the partner.

It's always helpful.

Well, right.

But just to clarify, you started doing this when you were a young person and you were completely on your own.

You still feel like it has some sort of superpower of getting the words into your brain.

So

are you saying you would be willing to give it up if there were a person in your life who would read lines with you right before bed?

You know, Judge.

yes, if I had somebody consistently who would practice with me and rehearse lines with me before bed, that would be extremely helpful and really helpful for my career.

So, yes.

Ian, why is that a workable compromise for you?

I think for me, there's probably two parts to that.

One,

I don't like to be looking at papers or

really doing any work in the bedroom at all

because I feel like that creates a space of anxiety and kind of stress.

And

I don't want to have to deal with that right as I'm trying to fall asleep.

I don't think it's productive for my sleeping habits.

Yame, is that accurate?

Does your boyfriend put in work in the bedroom?

You know, there are some days where I do ask him to rehearse lines with me in the bedroom, and that is correct.

I wouldn't call it a space of anxiety.

I mean, we're acting, so I would call it a space of fun and the possibility to create characters.

I can understand how it could be fun, but oftentimes there's papers and books and stuff on the side of the bed and kind of cluttering the space, the room itself.

And so then having to hear the papers and look at it and be worried about missing lines.

This is the third time you've mentioned paper as a bedroom problem for you.

You said you don't want to look at it.

It makes a lot of noise.

It makes a lot of noise.

You said you don't like to look at paper as you go to bed.

Like not books or anything like paper.

Then there are papers by the side of the bed and then you don't like to hear paper.

What is your bedtime ritual in the ideal world?

Mine is

after I've done all my hygienic things before bed, I lay down and fall asleep.

First, I drink until I'm able to forget there's any paper in the world.

Now, you send in two pieces of evidence here.

One is submitted by you, Ian.

It is the

layout of your apartment.

I presume this is going to be in New York City.

Is that correct?

Yes.

Correct.

All right.

And what is this supposed to be showing?

We'll put this up

on the show notes at maximumfund.org, the Judge Sean Hodgman page.

So anyone who likes this couple can probably track down where they live and look in their windows.

I blocked out the address.

It shouldn't be on there.

You know what?

I already know.

I'm the world's greatest detective, and I know where you live right now.

The world's half-greatest detective might take half an hour to figure this out.

No.

Judge Hodgman's got this sorted out.

You know what he did?

He took the pad of paper, that second page in the pad of paper, and he ran the side of a pencil tip across it and he could see what you wrote.

I did that to my computer screen, actually.

Yeah.

And it revealed the impression of your thoughts.

So, what am I looking at here with regard to, first of all,

this looks like

an interesting one-bedroom apartment with a long narrow living room and a kind of half hexagonal kitchenette a pretty typically tortured manhattan apartment layout

how does it compare to to how you are living in san diego

san diego was we had a two-bedroom place uh which actually was very nice lots of a lot more space definitely one and a half bathrooms phenomenal yeah fantastic this is why i asked why are you moving here But that's okay.

And you have a bedroom that, and you have one single bedroom now.

No longer do you have two, which would have solved your problems before.

You guys could have had separate bedrooms.

Like all, like, frankly, all cohabitating couples should have.

Eventually, we'll never figure this out.

All right.

And so why am I looking at this?

Aside from to feel sorry for you.

I mean, excited for your future.

I said that just to show how not far another room could be if it's so important to her to rehearse lines before bed, to just do that in the living room on the couch.

I mean it's it's literally about five steps away.

She could do that with the door closed and then when she's ready to sleep then she can come to sleep.

Right.

But I don't I think from what I understand from Nieame's argument is that it is something about the

ritual

of sort of

losing consciousness in the moment of rehearsing the lines

that gets it inside of her head.

Am I saying that correctly, Nieame?

That is so correct.

And that's a wonderful philosophy.

But then, what that forces me to do is have to wake up in the middle of the night and turn the light off because she's fallen asleep working on her lines.

Oh.

So you see why your solution doesn't work at all for her.

If the purpose of the exercise is to get it into her subconscious, and by the way, I'm not ruling one way or the other as to whether this is scientific or just dumb actory superstition.

Because it's a flip of the coin with with actors.

But

you appreciate how muttering to herself in the living room on the couch

and then just when she's about to fall asleep making a run for it to get into bed is not the same thing

as muttering in her own bed and falling asleep with the light on.

I do understand that, but I think that

being in a cohabitating relationship, that there are some

compromises.

And I think it'd be a fair compromise to have to do it another place,

but still get the same effect of doing it right before bed.

And if she falls asleep on the couch, then that's okay, too.

And then she can wake up in the next morning.

Sure.

That's a great way for people to live together.

Niamey, you sent in some

evidence as well, which is your own website.

And you sent this in for what reason?

To show that I'm very serious about this craft that I'm pursuing.

It's not just a hobby that I'm actually taking the time to set myself up for this industry and to memorize comfortably and like think about my characters, you know, calmly, comfortably, safely in my bed really means a lot to me.

It's an investment.

Right.

So you sent in.

Your website and your and your resume and your bio as an actor to prove that your time is worth more than Ian's.

I got it.

Okay.

Let's take a look and see if that's true.

First of all, it's a very nicely put together website.

And at the risk of buzz marketing,

we will make it available as a link on the show page,

maximumfund.org, the Judge John Hodgman page.

And let's see here.

Okay, very nice, very professional website, very professional headshots.

Lots and lots of photos of you on stage.

You must have something of a resume here.

Let's take a look.

Okay, theater.

Wow, quite a few roles.

And here at the La Jolla Playhouse.

Oh, you did up here?

I did.

The Robert Lopez, Kristen Anderson-Lopez Show?

I did, directed by Alex Timbers.

Oh, yeah.

Alex Timbers, a first-class theater director.

No question about that.

And those guys

are amazing.

The Anderson Lopezes.

Of course, you know, they wrote the song,

what's it called?

Let It Go from Frozen.

Stop Worrying So Much or whatever.

They played me an early version called Stop Worrying So Much about your ice creams.

I guess that's what they called it in the final thing.

And I saw a workshop of up here years ago.

That was a great show.

Yeah,

phenomenal.

Yeah, that was great.

That's fun.

And you have an agent and a manager now.

I do.

I actually have two agencies and a manager.

Two agencies.

Yeah, I'm a bi-coastal actor, so I have an agent representation in L.A., and my manager is actually in L.A.

And then I have

agency representation in New York, actually also for voiceover and commercials also in New York.

Okay.

And Ian, you're an unlicensed social worker.

Working toward licensure, getting my master's next year.

Where is that happening?

I'm going to Columbia University.

To Columbia University?

Well, look, that's an accredited university.

Yeah.

If I rule in your favor, you want me to ban this practice forever?

Or is there something else you have in mind?

I think after living with Nieme for a year, I came to understand how there are many times when things pop up that weren't expected.

So I don't think it needs to be banned forever.

I think if it happened once a month or so, that'd be okay with me.

But just it can't be consistently happening every night.

Follow-up question.

Does it happen every night?

Yes.

Yeah.

Just because Niamey feels like it or because she's actually rehearsing for roles or auditions that are active in her life.

She's rehearsing for

auditions or roles.

Mind if I add something to?

Let's see how it goes.

Okay.

When we first moved in together, we talked about

the story.

Yeah, before we had moved in, we kind of talked about our expectations for living together.

And one thing that she thought was really important was that we never do work in the bedroom.

And so that was the expectation moving in together.

And then

as we live together, that changed drastically.

Oh,

what a twist.

What a surprise twist.

Nieme, is that so?

Did you say no work in a bedroom?

That is correct.

I did say.

Yes or no.

Oh, you said cat.

I'm sorry.

I said no work in the bedroom.

I want this to be a stress-free zone, a place that we can just like be comfortable and sleep and not have to think about work.

Oh.

But.

No, how can there be a but?

Unless the rules don't apply to you because you're a narcissist and therefore perfectly trained to be an actor.

Well.

I said no work, but sometimes acting doesn't feel like work.

It's fun.

What would construe as work to you?

You mean you're talking about social work

specifically?

Yeah, or stuff that has to be like homework, stuff that I don't want to do, but that has to get done.

But I want to do this, so it's not like work to me.

It's just a part of my life.

It's just like eating or like walking or like jogging or exercising.

This is a part of naturally of who I am.

So it's not work.

Follow-up question.

Have you ever not done this ritual and something bad happened?

Yes.

So I just did three years of grad school and I have experience where when I don't memorize before bed and I memorize, you know, like maybe two hours before some other distractions happen.

It's just not crisp.

Two hours before bed or two hours before rehearsal?

Two hours before bed.

Two hours before.

And what was the bad thing that happened?

You forgot all your lines?

The lines just were not fully memorized.

All right.

Yeah.

Unfortunately.

I will say,

I understand for her how this is not work,

but it does affect my work because then I'm much more tired the next day.

And I feel like in my work, being patient with people is a very big part of it.

And it's hard to be patient when I'm very tired.

Yeah, you can barely be patient with the woman you're in love with.

If I find in your favor, Yame,

what's the ruling?

That he shut up about this for the rest of your lives together?

I think that the great compromise would be

him being available to practice with me so that I don't have to practice in bed.

We can practice in the living room.

on the couch, but we have to drill the lines.

Or we drill the lines while in bed and I will turn off the light so that he doesn't feel like he has to turn off the light because I fall asleep.

But that way I'm being active and he's helping me.

And

hopefully I would like an ideal world where me speaking these lines actually becomes soothing to him

and he digs it and he's and you know it's like a nice look before you go to sleep ritual.

Sure.

Maybe if you conjure that reality enough,

he will bend to your magical thinking and stop having feelings of his own.

I trust you're an incredibly good actor.

I think I have everything I need in order to make my decision.

I am going to go into my line rehearsal chambers and mutter my verdict to myself, which I wrote five days ago and will come out soon and recite it to you in perfect diction.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Nie Me, how do you feel about your chances?

I feel really good.

I feel very confident about it.

You seem confident in general.

I guess you just haven't been acting that long.

Got a tough skin.

Are you fully prepared for the life of a professional, like the miserable life of rejection that is professional acting?

I'm not talking about craft here.

I'm talking about people telling you that you can't have the part because your eyes aren't big enough.

You know, I've been dealing with that reality for a while, so it's been toughening me up.

And it's gotten to me to be able to make the decision to move to New York now.

And I'm pretty confident about it.

And I'm pretty

ready to be able to continue to take that and work, keep my head down and work.

Ian, same question, but about the social service licensing exam.

Yeah, I think I've gotten pretty...

tough as well.

I mean, people don't usually worry about the size of my eyes in social work, so I'm not too worried about that.

But

no, I'm pretty confident in the field that I've chosen.

How do you feel about your chances in the case?

I feel good.

I'm hoping that the judge

might agree with me that just because we did something at the age of 14 doesn't mean we have to continue doing it, and that sometimes we just grow out of old habits.

Well, we'll see what the judge has to say about all of this when we come back in just a minute.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

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Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

Yaimi, as a young person, you have chosen the life of being an actor.

So you know

that

what you should be doing,

and I say this with the utmost respect, Ian,

is dumping this dude, moving to New York by yourself, muttering to yourself in bed every night, and devoting yourself to your craft because it's incredibly competitive, it's incredibly all-consuming,

and

being

looked over your shoulder by some social worker all the time saying, Shh, be quiet, be quiet.

I'm trying to go to sleep, in literally and figuratively, is not going to help your career.

It's going to hinder your career to some degree.

You know that, right?

I know.

Oh, man.

Master Interrogator works again.

Because not only is it a challenge to your career to entwine your life with someone else,

because it is one of the careers, and I say this as someone who has dabbled in it, who has observed actors that I admire, observed actors that are monsters.

It is a career that I enjoy and wish I could do more, but know that I can't because I've entwined my life not only with another adult, but two humans that that person and I made together, right?

There's limits to what I can do.

The reason I liked working on Blind Spot so much was it was 25 minutes from my house.

I could drive there like a dad and park my car and go and work and come home.

You're at the part of your career where you got to do everything, everything, everything, everything.

And in a minute, you might be told, guess what?

You can't live in New York anymore.

Welcome to filming in Winnipeg, Manitoba.

That's right.

Where they're doing a lot of shooting these days, I gather.

So, you know,

I'm just, I'm saying this without prejudice and no offense to Ian, but Ian is terrible for your career

only by virtue of existing.

Now, on the other hand, I will say this.

There's a thing I read once that was meaningful to me.

It's a quote.

Quote, every year I realize more and more how the body is a canvas.

It can be used for the good of art or for the destruction of the human mind.

End quote.

Ian, do you know where that quote is from?

I do.

I do.

It's from her website.

Yeah, it's from Niamey's website.

Are those your own words?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's prescient because you're destroying his human mind.

But you're muttering at night.

Because I think that that is something that is

necessarily disruptive to someone who is not in your own brain and body working through the word stories you're telling to yourself as you fall asleep.

And it is the case that, you know, when people cohabitate, whether they are married or unmarried, suddenly you are forced to make all sorts of small and big compromises that are often infuriating and hard to adapt to.

And sharing a bedroom and sharing that space, that most intimate space, is one of those things where it comes up again and again on this podcast.

Like people are like, I like to sleep this way.

I like to have these kinds of covers.

I like to have the noise of water dripping or whatever.

I like to have five cats on my head, but for some reason, my partner doesn't.

Like, the idea of sharing a bedroom at all is probably the worst possible thing for a couple, whether they are married or not.

But kids seem to like it, so it's going to happen.

And

plus, you're moving to New York and you got no choice.

You're about to be entwined more closely than ever.

And Ian, you appreciate, right,

that

this move to New York is a big step for her career and yours, but you are

a hindrance to her career in a way that she is not to yours, simply by existing.

Don't you understand that?

I think I'm going to have to disagree with you on that.

I don't know.

Well, she didn't disagree.

I'm not saying, please understand.

No way would I ever order you guys to break up.

No, I understand.

But I think you need to appreciate that while your career is very meaningful, and once you get that degree, you will actually be helping people in a very real and direct way,

in a way that an actor never will.

For an artist to do their thing, and particularly an artist who is an actor who needs to be physically present,

being

entwined with another human being is a challenge to their flexibility and to their training.

Can you acknowledge that?

I think it can be.

I think there are other ways that I could be supportive, though, of her training and of her.

Oh, could you suggest a way that you could be?

I think, yeah.

I mean,

I've always been,

I've always attended all of her shows at least twice.

I do rehearse lines.

I help her record auditions.

I would drive her

to her shows.

I mean, I think there are ways that, yes, that is one

negative aspect, but there are other ways that outweigh it.

Okay.

I give you credit for all those good things you do, and I'm sorry to assume that you did none of them.

But

given the difference of your careers,

and given the essential

psychological self-absorption of the acting career, as well as

the time demands and the geographical demands that are often arbitrary and weird.

Why I'm highlighting this

difference in your careers

is to point out that this is just the beginning.

This

taking over a shared space for a highly personal endeavor is just the beginning.

And I hope that you guys will stay together because you clearly have a tremendous amount of affection for each other.

But even more than the other couples who have come on this show to complain about each other and their bedroom habits and hygiene, this is the first test of what I think will be many.

As there will be nights when Yeime won't come home for weeks and weeks and weeks because she's out somewhere on location or whatever it is.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

And so, and so I think that

someone who is

married to, or engaged to, or in love with an actor has to face that reality

that not only will they have weird schedules and require a lot of support and understanding, but also they're lying over there in bed and their solution to you not liking their muttering is, why don't you start liking it?

Because an actor doesn't understand why you don't like it.

And she buys me things to cover my eyes and plug my ears.

Well, that's nice.

As Christmas presents.

That's true.

But the fact of the matter is, Nye Me, your obligation here is to study your craft as hard as you can.

And unless you are going to break up with your beloved human, Ian,

you're going to have to learn how to not destroy his mind.

Think of your own website.

Your body is a canvas and can be used for the good of art or for the destruction of Ian's mind.

If Ian is willing to support you in all the ways that he said he is going to support you, you are also going to have to make compromises that seem, particularly because they service your art,

really, really

hard.

And to any other person who came on this podcast, saying, my spouse mutters in bed every night while falling asleep, I would say this person needs

the help of a professional and should stop doing it.

Yeah.

But for you, I am saying, I totally get it.

I totally appreciate why you're doing it.

I may give it a try myself next time I'm hired for an acting job in nine years.

And

I don't want to take away a tool of your art.

But

listening to you mutter just then, there's no way I could have fallen asleep today.

Fair, fair.

And in part because you're such a compelling actor.

See, this is what we do, Ian.

We butter them up and then they'll do

who's going to say things.

If you couch it all in flattery, it'll be fun.

You're so good.

You're so good that I can't keep my ears off of you.

There's no way you can do that

when I'm trying to drop slowly into pre-rem sleep.

So

I want you guys to stay together.

But part of what you guys have to do, and this is a little foreshadowing, is you're going to have to learn to not sing alone, but sing together.

And what I think this means is, especially since, frankly, Nyame offered it as an option, is that Nyame, you're going to have to alter your process.

You're going to have to trust that while you're falling asleep muttering has been helpful to you in the past, and you can still do it when you're on the road or whatever it is you knew, it doesn't have magical power.

That there are other ways to learn and get on top of your lines, and that your brain is plastic and you can train it other ways.

And since you suggested this compromise, I think Ian should not only be willing to, but should be willing to thank you profusely for the opportunity to run lines before bed in the living room.

Oh my gosh.

That's awesome.

Because that is a solid compromise because you are giving up a part of your process for his

process of falling asleep, part of your professional process for his napping process.

And what's more, it's probably the most supportive thing a friend or spouse of an actor can do, which is to be open to their work, engaged in it, and actually running the lines with another person and making eye contact.

Because I think, frankly, when you rehearse on your own, muttering along on the street as I do or in bed as you do, you're losing that moment of actual running the lines with a human being that I think is really important.

I'm no Stanislavski, you know, but that's what I think.

So that's a moratorium on

muttering in bed unless he's already dead asleep.

or out of the room or out for the night or you're on your own.

You know what I'm saying.

That is an order

of rehearsing lines for a reasonable amount of time while you both have a glass of wine or whatever in the living room, enhancing your relationship, having fun, and getting better at acting and training your mind in a different way, right?

And

even though I think both of your careers would thrive,

if I ordered you guys to break up right now,

I will not order you to break up

if you sing that song correctly.

Oh my gosh.

Oh, It's been three years.

Take a moment to find your key.

And if you don't remember the words, you can just hum the melody.

So, Nyame, you give him the key to start.

Okay.

Games that never

amount

to more than them

will

play themselves out.

Take this sinking boat

and point

it home.

It still got

time.

This is the sound of a cappella.

La la la la la la la la la.

Judge John Hodger rules, that is all.

Nye Mei, how are you feeling?

I'm feeling good.

Can you clarify?

Did I just win?

Eh, sort of.

I think everybody wins on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Don't you agree, Ian?

I do not agree.

Nor should you, because I found in Ian's favor, no more muttering in bed, but court-ordered rehearsal before bed.

That sounds great.

All right.

Ian,

I do not know what you're complaining about at all.

Oh, it's, it's...

It will be.

You're about to become a social worker, dude.

You better pray that she becomes the success that she could possibly be.

Better pray.

I will appreciate the time together.

I think that'll be really enjoyable.

And doing something together, I think that'll be a lot of fun.

It might go on an hour and a half every day.

Who knows?

I don't know.

Yeah.

And you're going to love it.

Naimi, do you think you can get me an audition to play Harold Hill, San Diego, or just pretty much anywhere?

Can you sing 76 trombones?

Yeah, sure, but not right now.

I need help from a musical director.

I'll sing We Got Trouble on the Way Out.

Guys, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you for having us.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Break a leg, both of you.

And that's thank you with a capital T rhymes with P.

That stands for cool.

You know, we've been doing My Brother, My Brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah.

You don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and me.

We serve serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no.

It's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Oh, you got trouble, my friend.

Trouble right here in River City with a capital T that rhymes with P that stands for pool.

Forget it, Jesse.

You know that you're destined to become a social worker.

No, I'll never be a social worker.

My dream is to play Professor Harold Hill at any theater that will take me, that is either local or will pay me enough that I can not get fired from my regular job and still like pay my mortgage and stuff.

That's my dream and I'll achieve it one day.

This week's show named by Stephen Lipenta.

Thanks, Stephen.

Thank you, Stephen.

If you want to name a Judge John Hodgman show, follow us on social media at Hodgman on Twitter, at Jesse Thorne on Twitter, on Facebook, like Judge John Hodgman and join the Maximum Fun group.

And on Reddit at maximumfun.reddit.com.

Those are the places we go.

You can also follow those things if you want to hear about new shows and meet cool people and all that kind of stuff too.

I mean, it's not the only reason you can do it.

This week's show, engineered remotely by John Strelecki at WUWM.

Thank you to him.

And of course, our producer is Jennifer Marmer here in Los Angeles.

Thanks, guys.

Hey, we're going on tour at

the Pacific Northeast, the Atlantic Northeast.

In September, we hope that we will see you.

Brooklyn is already sold out.

A couple of other places are getting close.

So if you're in Maine, Western Massachusetts, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington, D.C.,

or

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southeast of England.

In a little town called London.

London Town.

Then go to maximumfund.org or johnhodgman.com slash tour.

Click through, get your tickets today before they are all gone.

And in London, we're going to have two other great Maximum Fun shows, International Waters and Bullseye with Jesse Thorne.

That's me.

I'm going to be interviewing some major English celebrities.

I assure you of that.

So you'll definitely want to get some tickets.

Yeah, that's the London Podcast Festival.

You don't want to miss out on that at all.

And we have so many great fans in the UK

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If I may just point out that before that happens,

Very shortly on the 20th of July, I will be performing in support of the great band The Flight of the Concords in Forest Hills, Queens.

And then I will also be doing my solo show, Vacationland, later on in Seattle on November 11th.

And you can get tickets for those things if you wish to at johnhodgman.com/slash tour, as well as, again, tickets for all the great Judge John Hodgman Live Justice Tour shows that we're really excited about and are going to be so great.

So I hope you will go there and check it out.

Awesome.

And I think that's it.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Hot dog is not a sandwich.

You got that, Merriam-Webster?

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