Deadly Poke Bush

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

Me?

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

With me, as always, Judge John Hodgman, and we are here to clear all the dockets fit to be cleared.

Here I am in my chambers in New York City, where it is hot, hot, hot to quote Buster Poindexter.

Buster Poindexter.

By the way, whom I saw perform not long ago over Christmastime.

As Buster Poindexter or as the guy from the New York Dolls?

As David Johansson.

But he did Buster Poindexter's songs.

I think that he realized he wasn't fooling anyone

with his fake identity.

It's like,

we know who you are, David Johansson.

I had the same situation.

I went to a Chris Gaines concert, and all I heard was a bunch of dumb Garth Brooks songs.

He did perform hot, hot, hot.

And do you know what?

When it's cold, cold, cold outside in the wintertime, and you're in the Cafe Carlisle having been invited to a weird Hollywood party and you're seeing Buster Poindexter right up front singing hot, hot, hot, and also that guy is like a, you know how Keith Richards looks like skinny preserved marble?

Yeah, sure.

That's how he looks.

I bet.

And he's doing that.

And you know that somewhere in that room there's Bill Murray too?

It was an extremely exciting moment.

I can only imagine.

I mean, that's one of the all-time great novelty dance songs.

I mean, that is like a legitimately fantastic and enjoyable song in basically any context.

I really, I, you know, I really had a great time.

But the fact is that here in New York City, it is unseasonably hot, hot, hot.

And so

I am wearing

shorts and a tank top.

I've heard that New York is red hot.

Yes, it is.

Let's get into the docket.

Here's something from John, but it's a different John than you, Judge Hodgman, just so you know.

I'm not wearing a tank top.

You did not take the bait and get mad at me for wearing a tank top.

I'm wearing a lovely yellow t-shirt with

the logo of the wooden boat school in Brooklyn, Maine on it.

Now, let's hear from this other John.

I wonder what he's wearing.

My girlfriend Amanda and I have a disagreement about restaurant etiquette.

When a piece of silverware falls from the table to the floor, Amanda claims that it's right to leave the utensil on the floor until the wait staff can pick it up and replace it.

She argues that to pick up the silverware yourself would be unsanitary.

A floor fork on the table is gross.

Naturally, I disagree.

I think this rule of etiquette is outdated.

It poses an unnecessary burden on the wait staff.

Why not pick up the utensil with a napkin if you're worried about the germs?

Your Honor, I ask that you order Amanda to pick up her dropped silverware at restaurants from this point forward.

Mm-hmm.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, do you have a guess as to what my opinion will be?

Well, I mean, I think that, to my mind, the central concern here is that if you don't leave it on the ground, you pick it up and put it on your table, how are the wait staff going to know that you dropped it on the ground?

Unless you like flag them down and get involved in a whole conversation about it.

It's true.

It poses a dilemma.

If something falls on the floor, you don't want it to be that the first time someone realizes that there's a fork on the floor, a floor fork, as they call them,

sure, as they're commonly known.

is when that wait staff member slips on your floor fork and falls down and breaks his or her elbow or whatever.

That's true.

But it is true, having used the internet, I can say, that most internet etiquette advice sites of repute agree that the proper thing to do is to leave it on the floor, especially

in fine dining restaurants, because it is suggested that aside from sanitary issues,

if If other diners see you picking up your silverware, then the restaurant will be embarrassed because it'll look like they're not on top of things.

Judge Hodgman, did you read that review in the, whatever it was, the New York Times, I think, of the famous super fancy restaurant per se,

where it got knocked from the highest rating you could get to like half.

And it was mostly because one of the people who went to the restaurant with the reviewer had dropped their silverware and no one had replaced it.

Yeah.

Well, you know, that was by my old New York pal, a magazine writer, pal Pete Welts.

And I agree with him.

I think that if you're going to be spending a fortune at a restaurant in fine dining circumstances, the expectation is everything will be taken care of for you.

And I think that that was a real failure on the part of the wait staff to not pick up that piece of silverware.

Now, if you're in a diner and people aren't trained at the level that they are for per se, and you're not paying a fortune for a certain kind of fine dining experience, and maybe the wait staff is a little harried harried because it's busy or whatever, and it's easy enough for you to pick up that thing, pick it up.

I do not at all believe that having a fork floor on the table until such time as you can discreetly hand it off to your server and replacement for another one causes a sanitary issue of any meaning.

I mean, it's a five-second rule type of thing, right?

Yeah, I would honestly eat with a fork that I dropped on the ground in a place that was reasonably clean.

I don't care.

It's not any grosser than the top of my table.

Let's just say to each his or her own, as a podcast, I don't want to be endorsing that.

And all of a sudden,

someone gets floor fork mouth.

Yeah, sure.

Which is a serious issue.

Yeah, that's an offshoot of hoof and mouth.

Exactly.

I would say pretty much you're going to be okay if you take that fork up and leave it on the table, and you will be saving the wait staff person some trouble, and especially in a not necessarily fine dining restaurant, which is just your everyday family restaurant or diner.

You know, it is a tenet of this podcast to be mindful of the work you leave for others.

But at the same time, if your fork or spoon falls in such a place that it will be very inconvenient for you to get it, you don't have to feel obliged to get it.

In fact, it might cause a disruption for you to be moving stuff all around the place to pick up that fork.

Then you can leave it there.

And the next time the wait staff person comes down or you flag them politely, just say, I dropped my fork.

I can't get it right now.

Could you give me another one?

They say, yes, of course, right?

And then if you drop your fork in any situation and it's in the middle of the floor where it might cause an accident of some kind, then either pick it up or nudge it under the table with your foot or whether get it out of the way.

I mean, that's the responsible thing.

It's all in context, these things, you know?

And I think we just have to choose what will cause the least disruption of service, the least discomfort to you, and the least embarrassment to your de facto hosts, the restaurant.

So that's what I say.

Here's something from Joshua.

20 years ago, one of my best friends, Paul, and I made a bet that the first person to buy a minivan would owe the other one $100.

We'd agreed that buying a minivan would be a personal metaphor for giving in and becoming an American Midwestern cliché.

Recently, Paul told me that he could no longer resist and was giving in to the inevitable and getting a minivan.

However, a mutual friend of ours had decided to gift him a minivan instead of selling it to him.

Therefore, Paul claims that the terms of the bet have not been met since we had always said that it was the first one to buy a minivan and he is not technically buying this minivan.

I contend that when we used the verb to buy, we simply meant to acquire and the heart of the bet has been met and Paul owes me the $100.

Have the conditions of the bet been met?

Does Paul need to pay up?

Bailiff Jesse, you want to hear my opinion on this?

Yeah, you know, my wife Teresa had a similar bet with her friend Emily, or I should say our friend Emily, regarding the purchase of a sport utility vehicle.

And in purchasing a station wagon, we managed to collect, I believe it was $60.

Because you purchased a station wagon instead of an SUV?

Yeah, well, we still needed a family vehicle that could hold car seats and whatnot.

But she had said, oh, one day you'll get an SUV, you'll cave.

But we resisted.

No SUVs in our family.

Two station wagons.

Yeah,

I think I've been in that station wagon.

That's a crossover SUV.

No, it is not a crossover SUV, number one.

And number two, you're thinking of my station wagon, not Teresa's station wagon.

Oh, excuse me.

I apologize.

Well, then, I misled.

But I appreciate the fact that you take such technicalities so seriously because it is true.

I think that Paul found a loophole.

He did not buy a minivan.

He was gifted a minivan.

And that means not only does he not owe his friend $100,

But technically, he's not turning into a middle-aged weird dad who is hurtling towards death in his minivan.

And in fact, Paul is now immortal.

Well done, Paul.

Okay, that is not true.

Here's the thing.

If someone gives you a minivan, out of the blue, offers it without your asking and without your intent to get one, someone says, I have a vehicle I don't need.

Do you want it?

And because you are of such financial need, you accept it.

Then you should not have to suffer the additional burden of paying for this curse of a minivan.

But that's not the case here.

Paul announced that he was going to get one.

And then one came into his possession.

And while technically he did not

purchase it,

papers were passed, legal papers, and he owns it.

And therefore, I think

he does owe his friend $100.

He is a weird middle-aged dad hurling towards death.

And the chariot towards his death is his minivan.

Good job, Paul.

Here's something from Brittany.

Hello, Your Honor.

My husband and I live in a great Riverside apartment in Portland, Oregon.

Well, la-dee-da, Brittany.

That's very unusual for someone in Portland to be so proud of where they live.

I know.

As a native San Franciscan, I can say that the whole West Coast is really just one big where we live-centered shame spiral.

My husband and I live in a great Riverside apartment in Portland, Oregon.

There are three other units in our building.

We share a laundry room, a small yard, and eight rose bushes in the front yard.

Which leads me to the question, what are the rules around clipping shared flowers?

I have lots of houseplants and am known to occasionally splurge on fresh flowers.

Each of our units has its own entrance and there's not a real community feel.

None of the neighbors interact much.

Plus, our landlord lives out of state, so there's not really anyone to ask.

The roses have just bloomed and the whole street smells like honey.

When I asked my husband what he thought, he said, I think you can do it, but only under the cover of darkness, which was my thought exactly.

So, we don't disagree, but it's certainly a moral quandary.

Can you rule whether or not it's okay to clip fresh flowers?

Look, we have a lot of docket questions this week that are really

walking the thin line between a dispute and an etiquette question.

In this case, there's not even a dispute, It's just etiquette.

And I need to remind you guys that I am here to tell people who is right and who is wrong, whether or not I'm right or wrong.

We need disputes.

That is the engine.

Conflict is the engine of this podcast.

But out of politeness, I'm going to clear some of these etiquette questions like this one and tell you,

No, don't steal flowers from your communal garden.

You already know that it's wrong.

If you both agree that you would do it only under cover of darkness, the only thing you should do under cover of darkness is stargazing and hugging and kissing.

Otherwise, you're hiding something.

And you're hiding something because you know, you know that breaking this rule is meaningful.

Sometimes you got to break the rules in order to live.

This is not one of those times.

And whenever you're breaking the rules, you should think to yourself, what would happen?

if everyone did this all the time.

And if everyone did this all the time, of course, your whole street would not smell like honey.

Your whole street would look like it was inhabited by a bunch of selfish jerks in a roseless, cheerless courtyard.

So yeah, don't do it.

You know, don't steal, right?

You get that, right?

It would transform your beautiful flower bush into a deadly poke bush.

A deadly poke bush.

Quite right, Bailiff Jesse.

Well said.

Do not let let your home be decorated by a deadly poke bush.

Leave roses where everyone can enjoy them.

So, Judge John Hodgman, we were just talking last week on the show about whether a taco is a sandwich.

I actually have

another Southwestern foods-related dispute that I would love to get your opinion on.

Yes, please.

So, our maximumfun.org colleague, Graham Clark of the brilliant and hilarious podcast, Stop Podcasting Yourself,

got into.

I love those guys.

I couldn't love them more.

Could not love them more.

I got into a tete-a-tete with a government official recently regarding a definition.

And as Dave Shumke, Graham's co-host, brought up on Stop Podcasting Yourself, it really was a matter where it would have been really beneficial had you been there to offer a judicial decision immediately on the spot.

And I'm going to lay it out for you here.

Now, a tete tete, that's a kind of head sandwich.

Exactly.

It's a disagreement sandwich between two heads.

That's something that we in Los Angeles eat that you guys don't even know about in New York yet.

Jonathan Gold feeds it to us.

Fantastic.

But here's the deal.

So Graham was home in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, which is where his family is from, where he grew up.

And his mom made him a bunch of chili.

Okay, now Graham is allergic to a thousand things and is also a vegetarian.

So like to get a special food like homemade chili from his mom is a big deal for Graham.

So he got some extra chili from his mom.

She froze it for him.

And he then attempted to take it on an airplane.

So the question is,

is frozen chili a liquid for airplane purposes?

Or as Graham would have you consider it, is frozen chili a liquid overall?

That's a very interesting metaphysical question.

It is.

Because first of all, you have to engage: is chili a liquid?

Then you have to deal with what if you freeze it?

So, chili, of course, was a matter of dispute in the very first segment of Judge John Hodgman back when it was a segment on the Jordan Jesse Goat podcast, another fine podcast on the Maximum Fund Network, in which I determined that chili was not a soup, but a stew.

And indeed, even in its unfrozen state, it has a sort of a thickened, semi-solid, gravy consistency.

It's more of a colloid, a suspension of delicious meats and flavors than it is a thin broth.

Yeah, I think on stop podcasting yourself,

Dave and Graham and their delightful guest

were more inclined to include it in the category that also includes puddings, which they called goos.

Sure, of course.

But once it is frozen, it is a solid goo, right?

Yeah.

But no,

I am not surprised in the least that the TSA

said no, because what if Graham...

I mean, the point of the TSA, aside from making us all go through a lot of weird performance art theater in order to make us scared and

feel safer at the same time.

I don't know what the point is exactly.

I think it's mainly just to have us take our shoes on and off so that we don't think about the fact that we're about to get into a flying fart tube of death.

Right.

But if there is any rationale at all to it,

to the prohibition on liquids, it is to prevent a ne'er-do-well from bringing on a poison.

So what if Graham had some poison chili?

Yeah.

Which he then offered to the staff of the airplane in an attempt to take over the airplane?

Yeah, like what if he, and

a quick thawing poison chili that he goes through security based on the fact that it's a solid block, and then it thaws enough that he can scrape some off and throw it in the eyes of the flight attendant or whatever and blind him or her.

Yeah.

That's not a bad idea.

I mean, I'm not suggesting that anyone do that, but if you were trying to commit an act of terrorism, seems like a good plan.

They nearly confiscated the very lovely award,

honorific award that I got from the science fiction and fantasy writers awards, the Nebulas, when I hosted a couple of weeks ago.

And that was just a beautiful, essentially fancy pants snow globe with a night sky floating around inside of a plastic sphere.

And they just did not like the look of that at all.

It looked like a crazy Star Wars bomb, I guess.

Yeah.

But it was enough liquid in that thing that they said no.

I think that any rational person would appreciate that

bringing a big block of frozen chili in your carry-on is unfortunately going to it's going to be touch-and-go as to whether or not did they make him throw it away they did although the the person uh the person who was doing the screening had to engage in like a 15-minute extended conversation with his supervisor uh before they finally decided that graham was not allowed to take a frozen block of chili onto an airplane and did graham fight them was he angry oh yeah you better believe graham was angry

and they let him fly one thing you got to know about graham clark from stop podcasting yourself is he is the most genial peace-loving man on earth who will fight at the drop of a hat.

You know, I don't know.

Maybe, maybe that's the way to be in life.

I'm someone who takes the TSA very seriously because I'm an only child.

I like following rules.

It makes me feel good.

If you're status conscious and you like following rules, airports are for you.

Okay, we'll have more docket items when we come back in just a second.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

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Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

With me, Judge John Hodgman.

We're clearing the docket, and here is a case from James.

My wife and I drank a bottle of wine on a Friday night.

Well, congratulations.

Yeah, I know.

Well, I drink faster than her, so I probably had two-thirds of the bottle.

We were on the couch and we were starting to watch a TV show, but she fell asleep in a matter of minutes.

Before she did, though, she asked if there was more more wine.

I opened a second bottle and poured her a glass.

She fell asleep 10 seconds later.

The next day, we were going to a farewell party for her friends leaving town.

Afternoon thing, very low-key, graduate students.

My wife asked what we should bring.

I suggested the opened but practically untouched bottle of wine from the night before.

She said, This is gauche.

While I see her point and wouldn't do it for a formal dinner party, I think for a low-key gathering it should be acceptable.

What is your ruling?

Oh, that was an emotional roller coaster for me, Jesse.

There were a lot of misdirections in the first paragraph of that letter.

First, he starts describing this wine race that he has with his wife, how quickly he drinks wine.

Yeah.

I thought this was going to be an issue of alcoholism.

Then it turns into her falling asleep while watching television, which is a very common complaint that comes into the inbox here at the court of Judge John Hodgman.

How can I order my spouse to stay awake and watch the thing I want to watch after after we've split a bottle of wine or what have you?

But then it takes a whole hard left turn to whether or not it's okay to bring an already open bottle of wine to a party so long as it's an afternoon low-key thing hosted by graduate students who are beneath contempt to begin with.

So,

is it okay?

Is it not okay?

Jesse Thorne, what is your thought?

I think he's trying to cop please here.

I think this whole thing about, oh, it's just a casual thing.

It's just graduate students.

It's like the question is not, could I maybe get away with it?

It's, is it the right thing to do?

And I think it's weird.

Here's the crux that I have found to this very issue.

Yes, afternoon.

If you are going to see your best friends of an afternoon, whether or not they are hateful graduate students, and you're just going to sit around day drinking, I think it's okay to bring an already open bottle of wine because they're your best friends, and who cares?

You're just going to pour that wine into each other's mouths anyway.

That's what best friends do.

I don't do that with you, Jesse, because you don't drink.

Right.

That's the only thing, I don't want you to feel left out.

But this is not just an afternoon wine race among friends,

it's a going-away party.

There's a a farewell party for friends leaving town.

And that occasion requires a more thoughtful and observant presentation, which is an unopened bottle of wine, if you can manage it.

If you bring an open bottle of wine,

I think you could probably get away with it, and it'll let your friends know that you're glad they're leaving because you don't care about them.

If that's the message you want to send, go for it, James.

But otherwise, you're wrong and I'm right.

Here's a dispute from Michael.

My older brother and I have a long-standing dispute over the veracity of a response in the popular trivia board game Trivial Pursuit.

At the conclusion of the game, my brother received a music question asking which instrument the musician Flea was famous for playing.

I asserted his response of guitar.

This is a long-standing dispute, clearly.

I probably could guess the exact genus edition this is from 1992.

But let's move on.

Yeah, I feel like they were playing this version of Trivial Pursuit as they were basically cosplaying the movie The Big Chill or something like that.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, precisely.

I hope they also got some good questions about the spin doctors in there.

I asserted that my brother's response of guitar was not correct, as the card clearly stated bass as the correct response.

My brother contested that the instrument is a bass guitar and that his response of guitar was therefore correct.

The argument escalated with all remaining pie pieces being discarded down a nearby heating vent and the game ending in a stalemate.

As a 30-something with young children, my older brother should not allow the septic stench of baloney, I've substituted that word for a stronger word, within his own home, where his lovely wife and three impressionable children sleep.

He should be made to admit he is either ignorant of the differences between the two distinct instruments or that he'd intentionally subverted the truth in the selfish pursuit of a trivial victory.

Judge John Hodgman, please dispense shame to the appropriate party.

Jesse, could you immediately send me a trivial pursuit game so that I can set it up here in my chambers and then, in a rage, throw it down a heating vent and stalk off from this question?

Done and done.

I'm actually a little bit torn here because it's hard for me to figure out which one of these two guys I like less, to be blunt.

So first of all, obviously, your older brother, Michael, is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Guitar, as an answer, is not correct.

Flea is a bassist.

That's why the card said bass on the back.

And the I meant bass guitar is not only the most disingenuous waffling, but is obviously a lie because you said guitar, dum-dum.

Yeah, it's like saying, oh, what kind of instrument did he play?

Musical.

Yeah,

exactly.

It's like saying,

what's Stevie Wonder famous for playing for?

Forte.

What?

No, piano.

Well,

a piano is just shortening a piano forte.

Dumb.

Michael and his older brother, both of them.

But I'm mad at Michael too, because he's still having this fight.

Obviously, you know your brother is wrong.

Also, you know your brother is a weird creep who trashes a game when he doesn't get his way, but you're still having this fight.

You have had this fight since you were 12 years old or something.

And then you write this whole paragraph,

unnecessary paragraph, about how his brother's mendacious qualities are poisoning his lovely wife and impressionable children with baloney.

I mean, this kind of overwriting,

funny overwriting, it just, it just, I, it's, you know what it is, Jesse.

These two dudes are both jocks.

I'll bet you $100.

I bet you $100 I never buy a minivan.

I bet you $100 these dude jocks.

Wait, you're telling me, you're telling me that in your opinion, these two guys having a dispute over trivial pursuit who have chosen to overexplain their positions in excessively florid language are jocks?

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

And here's why.

I know that this all reads nerd, but you know where it doesn't read nerd?

All remaining pie pieces being discarded down a nearby nearby heating vent.

That to me, I don't feel a nerd doing that.

I think that reads a couple of smart, funny soccer players who obviously have a competitive streak and who will keep this stupid, meaningless rivalry going year over year over year over year.

If that doesn't sound like a sports thing to me, I don't know what does.

Michael,

tell me if I'm right or wrong.

You'll probably just lie like your brother and say that I'm wrong.

Try to get $100 out of me.

Doc's always picking on us nerds.

In any case, though, Michael, you should feel vindicated because obviously your older brother is not merely incorrect, but has been lying about it ever since.

And I shame him publicly at your request.

Man, one time I was playing Trivial Pursuit on a cruise ship against my good friend Adam Lysigor of the podcast, You Look Nice Today.

Sure.

And it was like started out pretty chill.

Like it was just us and our wives, and we were like, kind of, we were really playing it cool.

But you could tell that as our wives got further and further behind the two of us that the intensity was rationing up and you could understand like it became clearer and clearer that we never should have started playing the game

and

we're very good friends and really care about each other and for that reason we were doing everything in our power to control the obvious unspoken uh fact that uh whoever lost the game might literally die at the hands of whoever won the game or vice versa and you know you can get away with murder on a cruise ship very easily Yeah, exactly.

Laws don't apply.

And so, well, the laws of the country under whose flag the ship sails apply, but the fact is that they're, you know, the Bahamas don't have a lot of on-ship investigators.

Or read the chilling non-fiction story about this in John Ronson's Lost at Sea.

Boy, oh, boy.

It's terrifying.

Anyway, go on.

So in the end.

This whole story isn't about me bragging.

I did end up winning the game of Trivial Pursuit.

And I I have not played Trivial Pursuit since then, basically because, A, that experience was so traumatic for me.

And B, I'm doing everything in my power to maintain my one-win, no-loss record.

It's sort of like a guy who's about to win the batting championship not playing on the last day of the season.

Do you remember the

question that you won on?

It was probably sports.

I mean, let's be honest.

That's right.

That's what what I'm talking about.

Sports guys,

you love sports.

You play Trivial Pursuit.

Yeah.

Sports guys love Trivial Pursuit.

I remember, and I think I've talked about this on the podcast before.

I really enjoyed Trivial Pursuit a lot.

And anytime I would lose, do you know what I would do?

What's that?

Not throw anything down a heating vent.

Yeah.

I would say,

well played, mother and father of my next-door best friend.

Because I would play with grown-ups all the time.

Grown-ups would get together with the kids, and we would all play Trivio Pursuit.

I just remember having the, it's still one of the greatest memories of my life.

I hit the chance to win the winning wedge.

It was the Arts and Entertainment category, which was my wedge house.

And it came up, what film contains the song Foggy Mountain Breakdown?

And you said guitar.

And I won the game.

Because guitar

is actually the shortened version of the movie Bonnie and Clyde Guitar.

I had never seen Bonnie and Clyde.

I don't know what mental leaps I took.

It was like I was suddenly invested with a superpower.

It's not that it was a wild guess.

Somehow my brain made a lot of deductions very quickly that I still don't understand, and I got to the right answer.

And everyone was so excited for my win,

except for my friend's dad, who threw the pieces down the heating vent.

True story, except for parts of it.

Hi, I'm Amber Nash, the voice of Pam Poovy on the groundbreaking FX animated comedy Archer.

Remember Archer?

I sure don't.

That's why I started rephrasing an Archer rewatch podcast on maximumfun.org.

Join me and a bevy of special guests as we discuss every episode of Archer starting from the very beginning.

Archer executive producer Casey Willis and editor Christian Danley will provide insight and fun and help me remember everything I've forgotten about Archer, which is a lot.

So, join me on rephrasing an Archer Rewatch podcast on maximumfun.org because I can't wait to watch Archer again for the very first time.

The Wizards answer eight by eight.

The Conclave's call to demonstrate their arcane gift, their single spell.

They number 64

until a conflagration

63

and 62 they soon shall be, as one by one the wizards die.

Till one remains to reign on high.

Join us for Taz Royale, an oops all-wizards battle royale season of the Adventure Zone every other Thursday on maximumfun.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

We received a letter in response to the episode Live in That Cali 415 Life, which is a special bonus episode of this program.

And it came from Alyssa.

Now, this, Jesse, I'm going to tell you folks right now, fasten your seatbelts, especially if you're driving in a car.

You should have done that already.

And if you're not driving in a car, find a chair with some seatbelts because you will want to leap out of the chair in terror.

This is a terrifying story.

Yeah, so.

All right, kids.

Here it is from Melissa.

The court ruled that it was bad etiquette to cruise in the passing lane.

Your expert witness, Rhea Butcher, recommended flashing your lights at a person who's cruising in the passing lane because it's a commonly accepted way to communicate that you might want to pass.

Now, let me interrupt here for one second, Jesse.

This was a very surprising moment for me during this podcast because I felt strongly that you should not flash your lights.

And Rhea said, no, it's fine.

And I respect Rhea so much.

And then I appreciated that there might be regional differences

that I said, yes, it's fine to flash your lights if Rhea says so.

But then this letter arrived.

Continue.

And I would add to that that I respected the both of you so much that I did not bring up the complete and total ubiquity of cruising in the passing lane or, as I know it, the fast lane here in California, both in Northern California, where I grew up, and Southern California, where I now live.

Anyway.

There is a reason to drive in the fast lane.

And that is if both lanes are in use, so no one is actually really passing, and you need to maintain safe distance from other drivers.

Then I feel that it is okay if it is not a situation where where the passing lane should be kept open.

And you should not cruise there at the speed limit or a little over while cars are stacking up behind you who want to drive faster.

You should move over for them.

Tell me more of what Alyssa had to say.

She says, I live in Utah.

When I listened to your podcast yesterday, I was thinking about how in my state, it's common for drivers to cruise in the passing lane and to pass on the right.

I can't recall ever seeing other cars using the flashing lights method or using it myself.

In fact, hearing your podcast was the first time I'd heard about this method.

As I listened to the podcast, I wondered if Utah drivers were unfamiliar with this driving etiquette.

My suspicions were confirmed later that night when I went to a Game of Thrones viewing party and one of my friends told me about their own harrowing driving experience she had getting to the party.

She was driving on the interstate and found herself behind a car in the far left lane going 10 miles under the speed limit.

She flashed her lights to indicate that she wanted to pass.

The car responded by doing a brake check, that is, punching the the brakes briefly to indicate

and honking angrily in response.

Another nearby driver apparently agreed that she was out of line and flipped her off at the same time.

She decided to just pass on the right and get away from the driver.

Truthfully, I think she may have also decided to make a rude finger gesture as she passed, but I probably would have been inclined to do the same.

This is where things got crazy.

The driver got very upset and tailed her until she got off the interstate.

She was stopped at a stoplight and he got out of his car to come yell at her.

Fortunately, the light turned green and she sped off.

He got back in his car and continued to follow her.

She began driving erratically, ducking into side streets, hoping she'd lose him.

Finally, she lost him by pulling into a church parking lot and turning off her lights.

So, yes.

Following Ria's advice didn't really work out for my friend.

Do you think this could be explained by differences in regional driving cultures, or is this just an anomaly based on one bad Apple driver with a case of unearned road rage?

Well, I don't think it was, I think we can agree that it was not earned road rage.

It was not righteous road rage.

No.

Yeah, it can be explained very simply by lunacy.

This terrified me.

I mean,

truthfully, Rhea and I might have been party to a murder.

Who knew what this guy might have done?

Probably just would have yelled and been unpleasant.

But even that, I wouldn't even want to be party to an unpleasantness.

Never mind a murder.

So I absolutely rescind my ruling, and here's the reason why.

It may be okay

in certain communities, and totally acceptable, to flash your lights if you are behind someone who's going too slow for your tastes

to ask them to move over.

It may not be taken universally

as a signal of oafish selfishness and bullying behavior, which is what I always took it to mean driving around in New England.

That said,

there is an overriding rule of driving, which is this, and this letter reminds me of it.

Everyone else who is driving, who is not you,

is a terrible driver.

And probably a murderous sociopath.

You have to imagine that this is true.

Because if it's true for anyone, it's all it takes to cause an accident or follow you off the road and be unpleasant to you.

Everyone else is terrible and may be a murderous sociopath.

Keep your distance from cars all the time.

As much distance as you can keep between cars.

Don't tailgate, don't get close.

Stay away from these murderous sociopaths.

And there is no point in engaging with them.

It may be that your gentle tap of the lights might be interpreted as, excuse me, please, but it may be that it'll cause someone to follow you off the road.

I mean, it's an anomaly, to be sure, or at least an outlier, but there is really nothing to be gained by talking

with your lights or with your horn or with your hands to any of the other cars on the road because they're all creeps and murderers.

You have to imagine that.

And I say that because even if it's by accident, they are in a position to murder you and you are in a position to murder them.

So there is an imperative to keep your distance and keep calm and stay away from each other, literally and figuratively.

And if you're listening to this in a car right now, flash your lights so I know you heard me.

Don't flash your lights, guys.

I don't want you to be murdered.

But Jesse, you know what happened to me?

I actually,

there's one exception.

Now, see, here I go.

There's one exception, which is

I was driving down the road in Western Massachusetts just the other day,

and a car was traveling towards me, and it flashed its lights at me, you know, from the other lane, opposite direction.

And for a moment, my natural inclination as an only child is, how did I break the rules?

What did I do wrong?

And then I realized that this guy was partaking in

an old custom of the roadways,

which is to warn another driver that there is a police car down the road.

And I was like, oh, not that I was speeding because I follow the rules.

And this custom is illegal in some states because it is considered to be tipping people off and teaming up against the police or something.

Yeah, there's a similar controversy with navigation software for smartphones that has a similar function.

Where it lets you know that there's a police officer?

Exactly.

Yeah.

Well, in this case,

one dude or woman flashing his or her lights at another to say,

just so you know, there's a police officer posted at the side of the road soon.

As far as I'm concerned, that's free speech.

That's just citizens talking to each other.

And sure enough, it was there.

I wasn't speeding.

And sure enough, after I passed the police officer, went down further road, some people were coming up.

They were going to see the police officer soon.

I flashed the lights at them.

And I took part in that old, somewhat outlaw custom.

And only one of those cars ended up following me for 35 miles and then running me off the road and threatening to kill me.

We've got one more note here from Elle Nicole on the subject of tipping.

And, you know, if you want to check out what the judge has said in the past about tipping, check out episode 158, Tipping the Scales of Justice.

Elle is a professional refugee interviewer or a potential refugee interviewer as an officer for the Refugee Asylum and International international operations.

So she interviews people who are seeking refugee status in the United States?

Exactly, precisely.

All right.

With President Trump, her job's going to get a lot simpler.

I was recently sent from San Francisco to a training base in small town, Georgia for six weeks.

We stayed in on-base dorms that were basically budget hotel rooms, and we were not allowed to decline daily housekeeping service.

I tried.

The first week I arrived, I happened to listen to the Judge John Hodgman episode about tipping.

As someone who's exclusively vacationed in tents, hostels, mud huts, and other people's guest rooms, and who's about to start traveling frequently for work, it was an interesting episode, and I thought about it a lot.

It made me decide to leave a weekly tip with a little thank you post-it, and on Easter, the housekeeper left me a packet of bunny candies, a white chocolate cross, and a very nice, if God-heavy, which is not my jam, but you could just tell it was a sincerely sweet gesture, card.

No one else got a card or Easter candy.

It totally made me feel like I had more of a connection with the lady who'd been doing all my housework for a month and a half.

And I just wanted to thank you for advocating for tipping in that sort of situation.

It's nice.

I support treating other human beings humanely.

It comes back in nice ways.

What a relief.

I thought this story was going to end where it turned out the housekeeper was the ghost of a housekeeper.

And also had a hook for a hand.

Oh, phew.

I'm glad to have just a nice letter that doesn't sound like a creepy urban legend.

Well done.

Thank you, L.

Nicole, for your work and especially for your letter.

And thank you to that housekeeper

for being kind in this world, especially when kindness is offered to her.

That's a nice letter to get.

Well, Judge Hodgman, the dockets are officially clear.

I feel relieved that justice has once more been done.

And now I am going to go shower for the ninth time in this horrible heat.

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Thank you to Jennifer Marmour.

This is, I think,

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