Baggage Claims

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, baggage claims.

Ty files suit against her partner, Zach.

Zach is obsessed with earning and using airline points and miles.

Ty also likes to travel, but she wants to give up the crazy schemes and choose their vacation destinations and itineraries the normal way.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman enters the courtroom.

Boy, oh boy, is it my pleasure to be here?

And let me tell you why.

First of all, I am a fan of yours, and congratulations on your 300th episode.

But also, I would be lying if I didn't tell you I'm very happy to be here because I realized that when you asked me, and if I flew here for a single night and then flew back home, it would put me over the top.

for Platinum Angel status at maximumfund.org at the Max Fund Drive.

So I'm very happy to be here.

Thank you very very much.

Bailiff Jesse, swear them in.

Please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever?

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that his current medallion status consistently guarantees that he will be upgraded to a rigid airship?

Sure.

I do.

Very well, Judge Hodgman.

Ty and Zach, you may be seated for an immediate summary.

Judgments in one of your favors, if either of you can name the cultural reference that I paraphrased as I entered the courtroom.

Zach, you have been drug in here by Ty, so you have the option to either guess first or make Ty guessed first.

I'll take a crack at it.

Probably something from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, because I didn't really finish it.

The alternative would be something from books.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

You made your guess.

Your logic is airtight, sir.

It's a reasonable reasonable guess because I usually do some background research and figure out what books the litigants have not finished.

Yep.

And then pick something from the second half of those books.

So it could be.

We'll put that in the guest jar.

Ty, you bring this case against Zach, who is your husband, partner, friend?

Partner.

Business partner or life partner?

Life partner for now.

This phase of life partner, we'll say.

Ty,

can you guess what piece of culture I paraphrased as I entered the courtroom?

Up in the air?

A reasonable guess, and we'll put it in the guest jar, and now I'll smash open the guest jar and say, all guesses are wrong.

Phew.

Once again, I evade.

I evade the guillotine of someone guessing correctly.

It is not from Pitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

That would have been an interesting choice.

Up in the air would have been a very much

appropriate choice, given that we are discussing frequent flyer miles and the lunatics who pursue them to the detriment of their partners' lives.

But in fact, I was quoting a public radio show out of Portland, Oregon, called LiveWire, hosted by a friend of the program Luke Burbank,

who had a guest on the show who was very happy to have flown out to Portland to be on the show for the sole purpose of, in this case, not making Platinum Angel for maximum fun, but but making a Diamond Medallion on Delta Airlines.

And that guest was me.

I was quoting me

on the public radio show that made it possible.

On the public radio show that I stole money from in the form of a first-class ticket to Portland, Oregon, in order for me to chase my own monstrous dream to become Delta Diamond Medallion, which I am now and will be until January 2017.

And I am 100% certain will not be after that.

So I am living it up while I can, you guys.

Have some prawns on us.

Sincerely, Delta Airlines.

Oh, thank you very much.

Just

a huge

platter of prawns was just shoved under the door here in the basement studio of Cave Comedy Radio here in Long Island City.

In any case, Ty brings this case against Zach.

Ty, your complaint is that Zach is too preoccupied with his frequent flyer status.

That is correct.

And you

have benefited from his preoccupation with frequent flyer miles accumulation and status ascension.

Is that not so?

Oh, definitely.

I fully admit that.

But you would prefer that he care less about it.

I would like our travels to be more about enjoying our vacation rather than flying for the lowest cent per mile.

Okay, and

Zach,

where do I find you in the world?

Washington, D.C.

And do you guys live together in Washington, D.C.?

Yes.

All right.

And what is your job?

I work for the federal government.

You work for the federal government in a capacity that cannot be named?

I am a civilian at the Coast Guard.

A civilian at the Coast Guard, which, of course, was founded by Alexander Hamilton.

Correct.

Something that we all know.

Thanks again to friend of the network, Lynn Manuel Miranda, and his perfect pod

podcast.

Oh my god, his perfect musical.

And Ty, what do you do in your life?

I am

a contractor to the federal government.

A contractor to the federal government, and since you choose all of your words very carefully, I'm not even going to bother to ask what it is because I have a feeling you cannot say.

I prefer not to.

Right, okay, there we go.

So, Zach, you're married to the secret agent who would

prefer you not pay so much attention to your miles.

And in fact, restrict, I believe the request is restrict

crazy miles runs.

Mileage runs, you're on.

Milesage runs.

Mileage runs.

His frequent flyer pedantry is already kind of a thing of beauty.

To once, I believe once per calendar year.

Is that right, Ty?

You want a mileage run no more than once per year?

So let me clarify that.

I'm asking for one trip per calendar year, which is designed around maintaining or using

flying status, and then one that is planned like normal people around our desires and budget.

Okay.

So

first of all, let's clarify some terms.

Zach, what is a mile zejron?

It's defined as a trip.

A flight can be ranging from zero days to as many days as you want.

The objective being

to earn elite qualifying miles at less than five cents per mile.

Okay, now we have more definitions for our audience members

who may not

know the

intricacies of this particular obsession.

What do you mean by elite qualifying miles as opposed to just miles?

So there are two types of miles, the aforementioned elite qualifying miles, and then a second type, which are redeemable miles redeemable miles are those that you use when you want to turn in your miles for a ticket to Hawaii for example you that costs 35,000 50,000 however many it costs

depending on your airline

and those are redeemable miles those are based those are up until very recently earned based on the number of miles that you've actually flew what we the community calls button seat miles right

actual miles traveled Actual miles traveled with the option of a multiplier based on the class of service.

So 50%, 100% bonus.

And then that is also multiplied by your status as well.

You have a derogatory term for people who don't live on your particular forum, right?

And that term is

a kettle.

A kettle.

And while this podcast does not usually deal in hate speech, I'm going to use your terminology.

So for the kettles in our audience.

Hate he's a little strong.

Just clarify.

For the kettles in our audience who don't know what he's talking about,

some time ago, airlines started creating loyalty programs,

and they would reward you if you flew a number of miles with them.

If you signed up for the loyalty program, they would keep track of the number of miles you flew.

And as you racked up miles, you would be able to redeem those miles

for future travel.

So if you flew 50,000 miles in a year, you might be able to trade in those miles for a free ticket to someplace else.

And

you could enhance the number of miles you earned as you flew by, say, flying first class.

So if you flew 3,000 miles in coach, you might earn 3,000 miles into your account for

redeeming later.

But if you flew first class, you might get a 50% bonus.

So you might end up getting 4,500 miles banked in your account.

And the truth is that right from the very beginning, the term miles became instantly misleading because they're not miles, they're credits, they're points.

And so just to be clear, let's just say from now on, when we say miles, we are not talking about

a unit of length.

We are actually just talking about a point that an airline or many other loyalty programs will award you for

shopping with them or traveling with them.

Does that sound fair to you, Zach?

It does.

I can talk about this all day long on one of your weird forums.

So there are butt-in-seat miles, right?

And it's even more of a misnomer now because, as you alluded to, airlines used to credit you specifically for the numbers of miles that you traveled.

That would be the base.

So if you flew 3,000 miles in coach, you would get 3,000 miles in your account.

Now it's pegged more to, and certain airlines are different, to how much money you spend versus how much time you spend with your butt in the seat.

So it's even more, miles are even more separated from the actual unit of distance.

Beyond redeemable miles, which you earn to spend on future trips or what have you, there are also elite qualifying miles, which you are going to explain now, Zach.

Sure.

Elite qualifying miles are similar to redeemable miles based earned on the distance you travel with the multiplier for what's called class of service or the what for business class first class you get a multiplier and then there are different tiers at each calendar year you they're usually denominated in 25,000 mile tiers earn you various levels of elite status On my particular airline, I'm currently due to some mileage runs last year, the top level 100,000 mile status, which gets you free international business class upgrades, better treatment, free bags, prior security, priority boarding.

Lots, and most importantly,

it has saved me lots of heartache.

It has saved you heartache insofar as you get rebooked on flights faster should a flight be canceled, but it has created heartache in your relationship with the secret agent known only as Ty.

But we'll get back to that in a moment.

Just so that our listeners understand, and I will say that because I've already mentioned the name of this corporation once, I won't be able to say it again, Delta, for example.

I am

when I travel with Delta, or when you travel with Delta, if you're part of the program, you will earn a certain amount of miles for the distance you travel.

These are the redeemable miles, and then kept on a separate tally are these elite qualifying miles.

And after you travel a certain, after you reach a certain benchmark of earned elite qualifying miles, you will get bumped up in status, which means you will get an imaginary medal saying you did a good job and we as a corporation like you a little bit better now.

And now you are silver medallion and you do a little bit better, you get to be gold medallion and do a little bit better even more, get up to be platinum medallion.

And with each level of status that you accrue, you get certain privileges from the airline, such as you get to board a little bit earlier, or you get priority in terms of upgrades, or you get to go

get free bag checking.

If you get to say diamond medallion, which is their highest earnable status level, imaginary status level, you get to go into the special rooms for free.

Inside my mind, I have already divorced Zach, and I'm thinking about divorcing you, Judge.

I know.

I know, I know, because what happens is when

you become obsessed with

traveling all over the world

seeking imaginary medallions, you are by necessity frequently leaving loved ones behind, if not literally, then certainly metaphorically.

I feel like

someone is explaining to me the rules of a Zelda game that I've never played.

Well, you have to understand.

We've spent a lot of time on the show in this calendar year talking about Magic the Gathering.

This is my Magic the Gathering.

Seconded, Your Honor.

So, Ty, I think, barely needs to make a case for herself at this point as to why this is an insufferable thing to deal with, particularly if it is your partner.

But what is the harm that has been caused to you, Ty,

that brings you to this courtroom now seeking damages against Zach?

A few things.

So

first is

while I don't partake in the

mileage runs with Zach that do not involve leaving an airport.

I have done some trips that are still considered mileage runs,

but we have

left the airport and had a little bit of time.

I will want to revisit the phrase, mileage runs that do not involve leaving the airport.

So I'm just making a note.

I'm going to come back to that.

Clearly, This is an insufferable obsession that Zach and I share.

But aside aside from being bored and annoyed, what harm has it caused you?

So I have

contributed to

maintaining and earning

points and miles.

For example,

Zach and I sat in some empty hotel meeting rooms watching Archer in order to

gain points for hotels to use on our trips.

Finally, something I can get behind!

That's a dream vacation.

Is that to earn Archer points?

I have platinum medallion status with watching Archer.

Okay.

We also did some mattress running around the DC area,

again, for

some hotel points.

And when we go on trips in order to

take advantage of Zach's elite status, the trips are so

packed in the itinerary that we often

arrive at odd times, leave at odd times, we spend,

you go very far and spend a short amount of time in that destination.

We basically went to Shanghai for a weekend, which was great, but I was freaking exhausted and didn't really feel as relaxed as I feel like I should be.

Did you go to Shanghai?

Let me see if I understand with this specific example.

Did you go to Shanghai for the weekend from Washington, D.C.?

That's correct, Your Honor.

Yes.

Okay.

You went to Shanghai for the weekend from Washington, D.C.

It's a long way to go for a weekend.

Did you go, and I'm talking to Ty right now.

Was this trip planned in order to earn Zach and by association you more points and status with the airline?

Or did you actually want to go to Shanghai?

Yeah, like had you heard about a really good noodle place.

Or one of their personal archer watching pods that everyone's so excited about over there.

So I believe

that specific trip was to take advantage of the status that Zach has.

And once you have it, you have to, there's a scramble to make use of it within

a couple of months.

That is why I said to the audience that I am currently Diamond Medallion, but there's, it is, it is unlikely, given what my travel schedule looks like this year, that I will be able to maintain that level of status unless I do things like fly to Shanghai for the weekend for no reason.

And that's not for free, is it, Ty, to go to Shanghai?

It was very affordable.

It was very affordable.

All right.

It wasn't for nothing.

We had two gains out of that trip.

One was Ty's father spends half the year in Shanghai.

So we did get to see him for

the 28 hours we were on the ground.

You got to take advantage of how inconveniently placed he was for a brief part of the year.

Exactly.

The second thing is that we...

This was a trip, a paid business trip for $800 in business class round trip, which earned 40,000 elite qualifying miles.

For a per mile cost of you do the math, because I'm not going to.

It was, I think it was around 3.1

around there.

Ty, I have a question for you.

And while she's answering, do the math, and get back to me, Zach.

Roughly, how much money do you spend on this weird obsession?

And exactly, what do you get out of it that isn't

weird obsession-specific?

In other words,

what do you get travel-wise that you would do if it weren't for this complicated scheme?

I'll say that

I've been to more places with Zach in the time we've known each other than I thought I would ever go to.

I'm not sure we'd be able to do that.

We definitely wouldn't be able to do that on our own.

I'm not sure how much altogether we've spent.

I know that the value value is much better than there's no way we could have done this otherwise.

But we, you know, we spend

two grand a year.

So you're saying there's no way that you could have ever afforded to fly in an airplane for 29 hours for a 24-hour visit to Shanghai.

Not in business class.

Do you guys share finances?

We have joint credit cards to take advantage of some point promotion.

I got roped into that.

I guess the question is, to some degree, Ty, to what degree do you feel

that

your relationship, which you

now I understand why you hesitated to define it as

even partner,

is based on mutual love, respect, and admiration.

And to what degree do you feel like you're just part of his scheme?

Because having an extra warm body is an extra chance to accrue more points.

I mean,

Zach always says, like, I'm not going to go anywhere without you, because there's times when he, you know, says, like, oh, we have to go to Ireland.

It's, it's two cents per mile.

I'm like, are you crazy?

I can't do that right now.

So,

yeah.

And is that, Zach, a situation going to Ireland where it's two cents per mile where you would not even leave the airport?

You would just fly there by yourself?

If the deal was that good.

Yes.

Ty reports that you two things.

One, that you would never travel without her on a simple mileage run.

Well, no, that you, but you have taken trips without her.

She says she does not participate in the trips in which you go to the airport, turn around, and come back.

Correct.

So you do go on occasional solo

down-the-rabbit hole mileage runs on your own.

Yes.

Give me an example of one you did that you're, I'll say it, most proud of.

One that occurred last

year.

It didn't just occur.

It didn't happen to you.

One that I undertook last year.

Yeah.

Was to

be sorry.

So I should, a little context.

I travel frequently for my job

and I was close to the top level status on my airline of choice.

Do you know what?

I'm going to, here's the thing.

I think that this will all be a lot more interesting if we are specific, which is the soul of narrative after all.

So I'm going to let you name the airlines and just so that we can you can tell the story better.

And since I'm going to give I'm going to allow all these big corporations to be named on the podcast, I'm going to let you name your forum as well.

So what's the name of the forum?

It's called Flyer Talk.

Flyer Talk,

which it must have cost a fortune to buy that back from the Philadelphia Flyers.

Different spelling.

I think it's like, hey, can we have this website?

And they're like, yeah, of course you can.

We're a hockey team.

All right.

So now tell the story of your magnificent mileage run.

All right.

So you did a lot of trouble with travel for work.

You were within striking distance of top status, which would be what?

Executive Platinum on American Airlines.

Executive Platinum on American Airlines.

The equivalent of Diamond.

Oh, I know.

I mean, part of the reason I agree with this is because, you know, I fully feel I feel comfortable being judged by a true peer.

Yeah.

Oh, no, you're in the diamond court now.

Please sit down.

Would you like some hummus?

Relax on this phony mid-century modern chair.

Would you enjoy a complimentary well drink and maybe some of this Thai chicken and rice spicy soup?

We have a variety of items in chafing dishes.

The Thai chicken and rice spicy soup at the Delta Sky Lounge is

top.

You know all the notches?

I've heard good things.

This is the top one.

This is a soup.

I'm chasing this soup in my dreams.

I don't think there's anything Executive Platinum's got over that.

But so you're within striking distance of Ezek Platt on American Airlines.

So you make a run.

Multiple runs.

There was this deal between San Juan, Puerto Rico, and San Francisco in paid first class,

including the Transcontinental special flight between New York and San Francisco for $700 round trip.

The availability of this fare happened to line up with, I'm trying to remember which federal holiday it was.

I think it might have been

Columbus Day, I believe.

It lined up with your time off, with your federal holidays.

So you did it

three times in a row.

So you just flew around in a circle the whole weekend?

I did actually get

about

nine hours in San Francisco.

Did you leave the airport?

I did leave the airport for a brief period of time.

But

this was the most physically challenging, physically demanding trip of sitting and eating as much as I could to extract the most value out of this trip.

And

of course, it all went horribly wrong.

I had to jettison sub-segments because there was a mechanical delay in the beginning, and the whole thing went sideways.

I ended up sleeping in the yoga room at San Francisco airport.

Is your greatest dream to build a weather machine so that you can somehow manage to create snowstorms over Chicago that delay flights so that in the pursuit of better value, you can get rerouted around O'Hare?

That is a very fine dream.

I don't understand.

You what?

How did you lose segments?

The way I pictured this is: you fly New York to San Francisco, San Francisco to San Juan, San Juan to New York three times,

but maybe that's wrong.

The routing was D.C.

to New York.

I had to buy four separate tickets: D.C.

to New York to San Francisco, to San Juan to position.

That's ticket one.

That's just to get to the starting line.

That's just to get to the starting line.

Ticket

two was the first round trip,

San Juan, San Francisco, connecting in New York.

And then I did, there were ticket three was the same thing, ticket four was the same thing.

And then there I booked a one, sorry, there were actually five tickets,

a one-way ticket from San Francisco to D.C.

to finish it.

And you did this three times?

I did this, the San Juan.

No, I did the San Juan to San Francisco round trip three times.

And each time it cost you $700?

Correct.

Ty estimated that you were spending $2,000 per year, so I guess I'm wondering if you're keeping two sets of books as well.

Well, he's got the platinum executive books.

The actual number is probably closer to $3,500.

Per year.

Per year.

That is the maximum.

The objective is to spend the least amount possible.

Now, this is the first year.

We understand.

This is a game.

It's not real life.

Continue.

The objective is to spend...

I think that's

to spend as little as possible while maximizing earned value in points and free food on the air.

Like you're shoving down as many entrees, airline entrees, as you can in order to get the most value out of it, correct?

I wouldn't characterize it like that.

So you're just slamming down episodes of Big Bang Theory on the entertainment system

just to get as much as you can.

Pretty accurate.

And just like

shoving pillows and blankets into

your backpack and everything.

Just getting everything you can.

I'm just forbidden from bringing back any more Medi kits.

I imagine you at some sort of

kind of like shady swap meet in maybe Bethesda, Maryland, and you just in front of you, you just have a huge pile of, what was it, American airline toothbrushes, and just a thing that says 25 cents or 10 miles.

Well, let me tell you, though, as someone who's flown first class across the country on someone else's dime a number of times on Delta, you actually get some pretty good stuff.

a nice little some socks so what benefits what benefits are you getting out of all of this work and your your $3,500?

Is it primarily that you're being upgraded when you travel for work otherwise?

I do get upgraded when I travel for work when the contract, you know, the government works, you have to, there's a they issue a contract between certain cities, so I have to travel a city that lines up with American Airlines having the contract.

I generally do get upgraded.

Every simple question we ask you has about 35 seconds worth of qualifiers and caveats and contractual hedges ahead of it, which it's like you are so infected by frequent flyer miles.

Like, if it happens, if the segment lines up with the contract that we have with this company, I can move to this, and it takes me this far to get to position, then yes, I do get benefit from it.

Too many qualifiers.

Ty, do you fear that Zach is overly obsessed with this stuff?

I am concerned because

I think it affects.

I think if you focus so much on status and

it kind of gives you a sense of entitlement.

And that's one one of your complaints, right?

Yeah, he has to be first on the plane.

Yeah, I mean, I can understand that.

Who doesn't want to be on a plane?

It's, well, it's the money.

They got to maximize that plane time.

You don't understand.

As executive platinum, he knows that the people on the plane,

that the plane and that corporation really like him a lot, maybe more than his partner.

Wants to get into the bosom of love as soon as possible.

That's how I feel anyway, as a Diamond Medallion member.

Because when you go on the plane, they say, Thank you for being Diamond.

I'm like, Yeah, finally, finally, someone loves me.

Very specifically,

you want me to order him to

stop thinking about this?

Oh, that's impossible.

So, that's impossible.

We can't order him to stop thinking about it.

And it's clear to him that you already find it unattractive and he won't change his behavior as a result.

And

you don't

do you have a problem with him making solo mileage runs and leaving you behind?

No, I mean, I'm I'm fine with that.

I know he enjoys it and he wants to keep up with the rat race,

but I'm asking for a little more balance.

So, the damage that you're seeking is one trip a year,

let's say, where

you

plan

where to go and how to get there on an airline and a schedule that is convenient for you, that does not take any

price or, let's say, earned value into consideration.

That sounds that right?

I mean, I'm not going to say let's not take advantage of a deal if it's there, but let's not go out of our way to plan a vacation around that deal, considering that

I don't have as much vacation time as Zach, so I'm a little bit more limited.

And where are you going to go this year?

We are going to

Hong Kong and Bali.

And would it be fair to say that you would not be able to do that if Zach had not earned a whole bunch of points?

Or are you just paying for it out of your own pocket?

Oh, no, there's no...

no way we could have done it.

So Zach's sacrifice is enabling you to go on this dream vacation?

Crux bound, Your Honor.

I'll decide when I find a crux.

Guest producer Mary, don't adjust the levels.

I want to blow that one right out.

All right, I think I've heard everything I need to.

I'm going to go into the yoga room of my chambers and sleep for a while and try to come up with some solution, some way to impose balance on this situation structurally.

And I'll be back in a moment with my decision.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Zach, how are you feeling about your chances in the case today?

I think I'm doing pretty well.

The judge knows the allure

and the

pull of elite status.

Oh, I thought you were going to say, I assumed you were going to say the allure and pull of the unpleasant vacation.

I mean, what Ty didn't say in any of this is that we took a round-the-world trip last year in business class that we would never ever, in our mildest dreams, ever be able able to take.

How many of the places did you stay for more than 12 hours and or leave the airport?

Three.

Ty, how are you feeling about your chances?

I'm not feeling great considering the judge said that

going on a mileage run was probably one of the best days of his life.

So

a little nervous.

Zach, have you ever thought about breaking up with Ty?

Look, Look,

I'm not trying to sow division in your relationship here, but maybe if you broke up with Ty

and got together with game show host and friend of Max Fund J.

Keith Van Stratton, who's a celebrated points accumulator who often posts on Facebook $99 flights to Reykjavik, you might be happier.

I'll have to check the CPM on that.

He's a nice guy.

He's good looking.

He has to beat the geeks.

Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all of this madness when we come back in just a minute.

I'm going to rent a bathroom at Norita in Japan and take a long, hot shower.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

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That's m-a-d-e-i-n cookware.com.

Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

I obviously have a lot of affinity for

Zach's obsession.

And, you know, part of me

is very intrigued to find out, to start digging into his weird bulletin board so that I can start finding out about these $700

flights back and forth between San Juan and San Francisco and take advantage of top-notch CPM that is cost per mile, less than five cents per mile, and earn them up and get the bonuses and take around-the-world trips and business class and everything else.

It's a fantastic, it's a, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's,

it is not, not only an addictive temptation,

but it, it dovetails very nicely with my own pleasure centers, which are being in airports.

I love being in airports.

I love going into lounges.

I love, you know why I love going to airports?

Because I'm constantly obsessed with status and I love following rules.

Those are two of my favorite hobbies.

And so this really speaks to me, but it speaks to me and me alone.

And the fact is, I could never follow Zach's

road through the air because that's a lonely road through the air.

And right now, Zach is an unmarried partner of one person

who is Ty.

Whereas I am a married person with children.

And Ty, you worried, I could hear through...

the doors of my chamber that I might find in Zach's favor because I discussed a mileage run

that was the best day of my life.

But I think you misunderstood, if you've heard that story before, you misunderstood it.

Because as I was getting close to my own Delta Diamond Medallion status and approaching it, and I realized that if I didn't do it, if I didn't take a big trip by the end of the year, I would not get Delta Diamond Medallion status.

I priced a mileage run.

A run simply to fly to LA.

I was going to get out of the airport.

I would just go over to the In-N-Out Burger and have a double, double-animal style and watch the big airplanes land.

And then I would go fly back home.

And it would be 24 hours.

And I came very close to doing the mileage run, but I didn't do it.

I imagined that it would be a great, fun adventure, but I knew that it would hurt my children and especially my son, who had frankly had enough of me leaving the house for what I called work,

which is

saying words and making faces for money on the other part of the country.

And to do it without even having work to do,

the cost per mile would have been

undermined by the cost to soul.

And so I didn't.

Because

also, I'd be spending my own dumb money.

It wasn't until I got public radio on me to come over there and talk on live wire with Luke Burbank that I realized, oh, I got these suckers on the vine.

I'll spend their money and do it instead.

And then the math worked out.

But the thing, you know, I've discussed this now quite a bit on different radio shows and in public and so forth.

Everyone has their own math in this world.

And all your buddies, Zach, on Flyer Talk

have

a very specific math and their own little spreadsheets.

And I was like, if you can, if you see, if you spot a cheap flight where the cost per mile is going to be less than five cents or three cents or two cents, all of a sudden it is obligatory for you to go on that trip because otherwise you're just leaving money on the imaginary table and imaginary status on the imaginary table.

And then you go on that trip.

And the fact that you're gorging yourself on airplane food in order to

maximize value, I think on some level you realize that there's no amount of reheated short ribs or lasagna that you can shove down your throat that's going to compensate for the fact that you're leaving loved ones behind in order to chase an imaginary certificate of merit.

This is a

pursuit

for the for the single human one that I and part of my I think my obsession with it is that even though I'm very happily married and very happily a parent, I do remember what it was like to be totally on your own.

Maybe that's why I love traveling by myself because it reminds me of being 19 years old and having no human connections in my life.

But as you guys get closer together in your lives, it's going to be harder and harder to justify

bringing your partner to Shanghai for 24 hours to quote-unquote see her father, but really you're racking up a whole lot of status points.

And it will be toxic in your relationship going forward if you start playing the card that I played for you and you agreed.

It's like, baby, if I didn't leave you behind all the time and make you go on these terrible trips, we wouldn't get to go to Hong Kong because that's sort of like, just shut up and enjoy it.

I'm making all this money, but the money you're making is imaginary.

Do you know what I mean?

You need to listen to your partner and

you need to balance your obsessions with hers.

The only thing that I really

that's that is my caveat.

Not my caveat, my warning to you.

The problem is that perhaps

that Ty, I really needed you to demonstrate and speak frankly about the damage

that this is causing you so that I could correct that damage with punishment against Zach.

And with great respect, I'm not sure that you really brought the damage forward by explaining how it makes you feel, by explaining why you think it's wrong.

The closest you got to it was that you don't like it when

Zach wanders through the airport looking down his nose at kettles.

And I don't blame you.

I don't like that either.

It's hard for me to establish a damage, a proper damage, that would correct and bring balance to the situation.

And quite frankly, Ty, and I say this with respect,

I'm not sure if you know what you would ask other than maybe Zach think about this a little less, but you know that he's not going to.

So unfortunately, I can't find in your favor, Ty.

I have to allow Zach his weird obsession, but I'm warning you, Zach, you're driving your loved ones away.

First, they're bringing you to podcasts, and the next thing you know, you're going to be assassinated by a foreign agent.

Oh, man.

Because Ty has connections.

I mean, I could say limit solo mileage runs to three per year, or I could say, let Ty plan a trip all on her own

that has no.

You know what?

That's what I'm going to do.

No.

I am going to do it.

This is not a judgment against Zach per se, but I am going to award some damage to Ty as a warning to Zach of where this might go.

And so, Ty, I am ordering you for next vacation.

You plan where you're going to go, you plan how long you're going to stay there, you plan where you're going to stay, you're going to plan what class of service you're going to fly, you're going to plan what airline you're going to fly, and you will receive no input whatsoever from Zach.

You will not care about the CPMs, and you will do it exactly the way you want to do it.

And, Zach, you will have to do this,

even if you realize that your CPMs are like $500 per mile.

You're going to take it so that you understand what it is to travel.

You're going to understand the cost it incurs to travel several thousand miles in Ty's shoes, the way she has been traveling in your shoes all this time.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Ty, how do you feel about Judge Hodgman's admittedly somewhat Byzantine and confusing ruling?

I'm pleasantly surprised.

Are you excited to build your own spreadsheet?

Oh, yeah.

We're going to Australia.

Oh, awesome.

What are you going to do in Australia?

Lots of beach time.

Yeah, awesome.

Zach, how are you feeling?

I'm pretty good.

I can live with that.

Yeah, what could be worse, right?

Yeah.

You'll somehow make it through this beach vacation to Australia.

Yeah.

Despite the number of points that you know you're not earning every time you sip a Mai Tai.

Oh, this is the hardest thing.

Ty, Zach, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Judge Hodgman, you know, we've been been doing My Brother, My Brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no.

It's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Long.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Let's wrap this show up real quick because I got a flight to catch.

Yeah, I got to go.

I've rented a conference room

and a hotel

to watch old episodes of Married on FX

and get FX points.

Our episode this week, named by David Stevens.

Thank you, David.

If you want to name an episode of Judge John Hodgman, it's fun.

It's easy.

It's dumb.

Follow us on Twitter at Hodgman and at at Jesse Thorne and like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook.

You can also join us on the Maximum Fun Reddit at maximumfund.redddit.com and in the maximum fund Facebook group where there is a lot of fun going on at any given moment.

In addition to liking Judge John Hodgman on Facebook, may I also suggest liking Judge John Hodgman in real life?

Because I'm addicted to approval.

Yes, no, that is clear.

There is one thing that has become clear in the course of this episode, Judge Hodgman.

It's that you need approval and will pay dearly for it.

Indeed so, sir.

Our special thanks this week to our friends at Cave Comedy Radio

in Long Island City, who gave us a studio for Judge Hodgman to record in.

Who's your special engineer over there this week, Judge Hodgman?

It's guest producer Mary.

Thank you, Mary.

Julia Smith is the producer of the program.

Mark McConville edits the show.

And most of all, thank you to everyone who participated in the max fun drive.

You are our personal heroes.

We love you.

Thank you so, so, so, so much.

I agree with Jesse.

We are so grateful for all of your support during the Max Fun Drive.

It really means a tremendous amount.

And we're just thrilled to be able to bring you the podcast.

So, thank you.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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