Bros Before Globes

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, Bros Before Globes, Noah brings the case against his good friend Eric.

Eric has a bit of wanderlust and is about to set off for his second year of traveling around the globe.

Noah says that Eric's constant rovings make it near impossible to maintain their relationship.

He wants him to promise to come home more often.

Eric says his travel isn't hurting anybody.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom.

I'm a judging guy.

I'm a judging.

Judging, judging, judging, judging, judging, judging, judging, judging.

Everybody whistle.

Judging, judging.

I'm a judging guy.

I'm judging.

I'm judged

Jun

bailiff Jesse swear them in.

Please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God, or whatever.

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that his platinum medallion status means he can fly to the moon first class for free?

Yes, I do.

Very well, Judge Hodgman.

Jesse,

it's Diamond Medallion now.

Oh, excuse me.

Forgive me, Judge Hodgman.

I did not con a first-class airline ticket off a public radio show, LiveWire, with Luke Burbank in Portland, to get a platinum medallion.

No, I did that.

I took the money they probably needed to pay their employees so that I could get the imaginary diamond medallion and level up in the weird sick video game

that is Freaking Flyer Miles.

And now I'm a diamond medallion, and guess what?

I am a complete and whole human being who is free from all care.

And thus...

And gets as many free B-minus martinis as he wants in the luxurious airport lounge.

You know what?

You snipe.

What are you, silver?

You sound a little silver to me, Jesse.

Silver medallion.

Notorious snipers, haters.

Silver's got a silves.

Now listen.

Noah and Eric, you may be seated for immediate summary judgment in one of yours' favors.

And now I am beyond, since I am beyond all care and human emotion, I'm a better judge than ever.

Can either one of you

name the piece of popular culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom?

Eric, Noah has drugged you into this court against your will, so you can either guess first or make Noah guess first.

Which is it going to be?

Uh, judge, I know this with 100% absolute certainty.

Oh, good.

Uh, but I'm going to let Noah field this just to see where he goes and see what he says.

Okay.

Noah,

what is your guess as to the popular cultural reference that I referenced as I entered the courtroom?

I don't know.

My only research on this before I came here was on the band Europe.

So I'm going to go with the band Europe from their album Europe.

Okay.

That would have been an interesting place to find a cultural reference.

But without saying whether you are right or wrong, I will now turn to Eric.

And Eric, I will say, you know with 100% certainty.

Yes, sir.

So I trust you will now decline to guess.

Oh,

is that the honorable move here?

I hadn't anticipated that.

Well,

what happens when people get the cultural reference is

everything kind of grinds to a halt

and I have to think on my feet, which I hate doing,

to come up with some excuse for not actually finding in the person's favor so that we can have the case.

And when I do that,

which is all in fun, obviously,

I then get letters from some of the silver medallion types who are always constantly finding fault with me.

And sometimes, in one case, a very angry letter saying that I was a smug jerk who was just

taking back

my promise of an immediate summary judgment in order to spite people who guessed my game correctly.

I see.

So

would you like me to take one for the team, as it were,

and guess incorrectly?

You didn't have to use a sports metaphor.

That was uncomfortable.

Therefore, I take back your immediate summary judgment.

No excellent.

No matter what.

As punishment for that sports metaphor, you cannot win.

But I would encourage you to guess all the same because

you deserve accolades if you have guessed correctly.

You reference the greatest comedian of all time, Steve Martin.

Yes, you are correct.

And I do not spite you for knowing that.

I'm glad that you know that.

Do you know

the bit I was referencing specifically?

Oh, yeah, you were rambling, man.

He probably did it a few different times, but I listened to that Get Small record probably

five million times when I was a child.

Let's Get Small by Steve Martin.

It's the one with

the balloon animals on his head on the cover.

Yeah.

That is exactly right.

Ramblin' Man by Steve Martin.

And it's a better bit when it's rambling rather than judging because then he can end it.

I'm Ram.

Blin.

And it was really interesting to revisit that.

And I first seen it on The Muppet Show,

where he does a great version of it

on stage while the Muppets are in the audience.

I mean, there were always Muppets in the audience, but I think the premise of this particular episode of The Muppet Show was that the theater got closed down, so they were just performing for each other.

So much about The Muppet Show seems like a half-remembered dream.

It was designed to feel that way.

And it's such

interesting to see what passes for comedy.

I mean, and it's undeniably comedy, right?

And it's still really funny to see him do that bit, but it's just him singing a song.

And it's just, it just goes to show

something, some lesson about comedy, right?

Things are funny when they're funny.

That's true.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

That's an important lesson about comedy that we learn from that episode of The Muppet Show that you almost remember.

No, I remember it very well,

but there is something surreal about seeing Fozzie Bear sitting in the audience while Steve Martin is on a bear stage playing the banjo that feels like maybe I had too many martinis at my poker game last night and fell asleep on the couch and woke up at 5 a.m.

Which is also what happened.

Anyway, a glimpse into my life that perhaps was not necessary.

Let's move forward with your dumb fight, Noah and Eric.

Noah, you're mad at Eric because he's traveling the globe and you don't get to spend as much time with him as you would like.

Is that correct?

Yes, him spending time with me and my family.

And how old are you and Eric?

I'm 35.

I'm 40.

Eric's 40.

Oh, okay.

And you're wandering the globe because you realize, oh, I'm not immortal.

I'm going to die.

Now that I'm 40, I understand that life is not endless and I need to go and see the world before that happens.

Do I guess you're right, Eric?

Yes, sir.

All right.

And And Noah, how old is your little family?

My wife is about my age, and my daughter is a year and a half, 20 months.

You can say a year and a half.

That's fine.

20 months just confuses this chord.

Thank you.

Congratulations on

having a human child and forming a family unit.

Eric, may I presume that you are utterly alone in this world?

Yes.

You have no significant other or children?

No.

No, I do not.

All right.

And how is it that at the age of 40, you are about to embark on your second full year of just rambling?

Yeah.

And how

you are a rambling guy.

And

where have you rambled to so far?

I spent last year in Europe.

I was in the Balkans for most of the time, Croatia and Serbia.

But I was in Germany, Poland, Spain.

the Netherlands, kind of running around.

This year, I will travel to Thailand, Taiwan, Taiwan, Korea, Finland, Russia,

and then later in the year back to Germany.

If the court allows it.

Right.

Noah,

your friend, Eric, wants this court to restrain your motion through the club.

Wants to imprison you.

Noah wants to imprison you on this continent and specifically

for a period of time in the town that you share, which is what town, Eric?

Is it Seattle?

Seattle.

Seattle.

Okay.

A global city.

Should be enough for any man.

Why would you ever need to go to the Balkans when you have...

What's a neighborhood in Seattle?

Fremont.

Fremont.

The Balkans of the Pacific Northwest.

Somehow, knowing nothing about that neighborhood, somehow, I still think I'm right.

I'm pretty sure it's riven by sectarian strife.

That's true.

What guided your travels in the past year, Eric?

The past year

was very loose.

I didn't really have a plan per se.

There were some business reasons to be there,

but mostly it was just kind of wandering.

This year, this upcoming year is more strategic.

The time that I'm spending in Taiwan and Korea and Finland are for business reasons, not just for lounging on the beach in Croatia

reasons.

Sorry.

Eric, I presume that you're an international arms smuggler.

No.

Blood diamonds?

I prefer not to disclose that.

What is your business?

I publish board games.

Oh, yeah.

Got to get to Vietnam, my friend.

Can we get to Taiwan?

It's a big market for

big untapped market for Kickstarter-based nerd stuff.

Well, wait a minute.

Apparently, the board game's been pretty good to Eric, right?

Because this has allowed you to essentially travel around as a nomad,

more or less unemployed for most of the year.

Yes, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, my work is such that I can just do it from my laptop so I can kind of be anywhere.

And

yeah, it's one of the luxuries of

being in this industry and having this business.

I want to make board games.

I want to make sure that.

Eric, the part that I'm not clear about is you said that you will be traveling for strategic reasons.

So in the board game business, why is it important

to

travel the world from second world country to second world country sitting on beaches?

Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.: Well, the sitting on beaches parts

was not very constructive, but part of the major thrust of my business is getting licenses from other publishers around the globe.

So for instance, I have a really good partner in Korea, and they publish games in Korean, and then I localize them get the English rights for them and then publish them in United States Canada Australia UK so on

and so and this happens all over the place so there's a bunch of interesting stuff coming out of Taiwan for instance and so I'm gonna go to Taiwan and I'm gonna try to find licenses there and and so on and so on you go to Taiwan and you're just like you hit the ground and like what are the hot board games these days you go around

You go around to schools and ask the kids, what are the board games y'all are playing?

Well, no, I mean, I already have, I have context there already.

I mean, I'm not, I wouldn't be able to just go into Portugal or someplace just dry, not knowing anything, and then try to, you know, hook up some games.

You'd be laughed out of the Portuguese board game community if you just showed up like a rube.

Dry.

Dry.

I find this fascinating.

Board game community.

Here I am.

Here I am, a diamond medallion

and

a citizen of the world.

I lead a pretty glamorous life.

I got a podcast, but I never, I don't have any partners in Korea.

I don't have any partners in, I don't have any insight into the Portuguese board game.

I like your style, Eric.

All the Portuguese board games are about constructing fish stews.

So

they all exist to not provide fun, but to provide that Portuguese mixture of sadness and nostalgia called Saudaudis.

What's the big discovery in your career?

I don't want to scoop you on any of these board games, so if you haven't gotten the license locked down, don't reveal it because I'm thinking about going into this business now.

But what's the biggest success you've had in the board game biz licensed from Finland or whatever?

Well, so there's a Finnish game that I'm doing later year.

I was just using Finland as an example.

It doesn't have to be Finland, but I'm excited that it is.

Well, here we are.

So, yeah,

it's a two-player game, a small two-player game about royal rabbits getting a divorce.

And so each player plays as one of the rabbits, and you have since gotten your divorce, and now you use your cards to influence your friends and family to your side of the divorce.

What?

So when you say royal rabbits,

I don't know a lot about Finland.

Are the the king and queen of Finland rabbits?

They were at one point.

Yeah.

If it's on Wikipedia, you can look it up.

No.

Wait a minute.

Is this a way for Finnish parents to help their kids understand divorce and also

train them early on in manipulating people to their sides during disputes?

Possibly, I'm not sure.

This is the greatest thing that I have heard in my holes in some time.

And while there is normally a blanket man on advertising on this show, what is the name of this game?

The game is called Kune vs.

Lakia.

Of course it is.

A chronicle of Lepine divorce foretold.

And is it available in the English language from your company now?

It is not.

We're going to go to production on it in a few months, and I would be happy to send you a copy

when we do it.

What's the print run on a Finnish rabbit-based board game?

20?

No, for this, I'm going to do 3,000

initially.

And then

if it sells well, we'll go back and do another 3 or 5.

But

something needs to be pretty nuts good to do

somewhere 10,000 or more units on it.

So a small publisher like me, we're usually doing somewhere in the 3,000 to 5,000 range.

Have you ever thought about Wu-Tang planning this?

And and just making one and selling it in a special box with a gold-plated rabbit?

There is, there are companies that do this, and they'll just make like 100 or 1,000 of anything, and then they never make any more.

And it seems to go over pretty well for them.

Yeah.

Limited editions.

It's the wave of the future, but especially in board games.

To clarify, this is a board game or a card game.

It's a small card game.

And by small, like the cards are tiny?

No, the cards are normal size.

It's just a small boxed game.

Okay, got it.

Yeah.

When you publish it, I want the first copy.

Okay, yes.

Well, we don't number them, but

now you do.

Damn it.

Okay.

Yes.

All right.

I'll make sure that you get one.

And this is not bribery, by the way.

I will pay for it.

Just set one aside, put number one on it in Sharpie or whatever.

And

I will buy it.

All right, Noah,

you're still here.

Yeah, this has been going well.

Why would you want me to restrain the incredible life of adventure and travel and experience and beaches and divorcing rabbits that your friend Eric is enjoying?

May I presume it is out of sheer spiteful silver medallion jealousy?

It is not jealousy.

I have thought about that.

If he was going on one trip, or two trips in a year, three trips or something, I would say, yeah, that's great.

I wish I could go along.

But when he's gone for so long that he has to sell his worldly possessions and do some weird mail thing at home and I'm sorry, did you repeat that?

Some weird mail, what?

A weird mail forwarding thing.

Oh, okay, gotcha.

He's living with us right now because he doesn't have a place to live otherwise when he's here for this brief base camp visit before jaunting off again.

I think that you do damage to the relationships you've established in your home when you're gone for that much time.

Is he your son?

I thought you had a daughter.

I thought you had a 20-month-old daughter, not a 40-year-old son.

I have a daughter, and I want her to get to know one of my best friends, but he's gone for so long that they haven't had a chance to have that relationship.

So tell me about your friendship.

How long have you guys known each other?

I've known him, I'd say about 12 years, 12 and a half years, I think.

He was the best man at my wedding.

We met playing games.

Yes.

What was the game?

What was your meet cute game that you've

do you want to buzz market on this?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Don't worry.

I think board games get a pass in this culture for free marketing.

It's a trading card game.

It's called Magic the Gathering.

It's a Deckmaster game.

Oh, well, that one does not get a pass.

That one's A number one, right?

Yeah, that's the top one.

That's the Walmart of

card games.

It affects the economy.

What's What's good for Magic the Gathering is good for the nation, is what I hear.

Yeah.

So,

by the way, Magic the Gathering people, I don't compare Magic the Gathering to Walmart.

I'm obviously not.

It's just a big success.

Big success.

We met there and we hit it off, and we've been fast friends ever since.

And so, let's see, 12 years, you're a little bit younger, so that

like, so just out of college for you, right, Noah?

Essentially, yeah.

Okay.

And Eric, why has this?

So this is a recent-ish

life change.

Prior to the Balkan jaunt,

which

by the way is the worst Robert Ludlam novel.

Prior to the Balkan jaunt, I can't even say it.

That's why it's bad.

You lived a normal, stable life there in Seattle?

Yeah, more or less.

I still traveled quite a bit for work.

So I would be gone once or twice a month traveling either to Europe or Japan or somewhere in the United States for conventions and stuff.

So I was still traveling.

But you had a home.

Yes.

I had a home.

I mean, would you say that you currently have no home?

Technically, yes.

Yes.

Okay.

And what sparked this life change?

Like, you sold worldly possessions.

Is that true?

Yeah.

I mean,

I got a storage unit to keep things in, but a lot of the stuff I just don't need.

When I realized that this was a thing that I was going to be able to do and I was just going to be kind of wandering,

I didn't need to keep renting an apartment.

I didn't need to have all these things, and so I just put them in storage and got rid of some stuff.

So

you reached a point of financial success with your rabbit card game biz that you could throw it all away, as it were.

I suppose.

I suppose.

I mean, I'm asking you,

what was the moment that you realized that you wanted to do this?

What sparked this?

Well,

I've always loved traveling and I've always loved running around and seeing new things and meeting new people and stuff.

But when I realized that

I didn't need to be locked into one place any longer, that I could just, I could, as long as I had my laptop, I was able to do all the work that I needed to do.

Then it became clear that this was something that I could do.

So there wasn't like one big moment or a big change in your finances that allowed this to happen.

Just one day you woke up and it's like,

I'm going to burn all my clothes.

Yes, more or less.

And give up my lease.

To be clear, on the financial part of it, it's actually cheaper to be over there than it is here.

And

when you're living in Croatia and Serbia or wherever,

it's...

I mean, it's much, much cheaper than living in Seattle.

Do you intend to get a home at some point in the future?

Or is this for, for the time being, you're just going to wander around?

Yeah, I'm in no hurry to get a home.

I don't know.

I've read enough.

I don't know.

I don't know, honestly.

You could probably be on House Centre's International is what I'm saying.

Sure.

But overall, the plan is at some point for you to die alone in a foreign hotel room.

Oh, hopefully.

Yeah.

I'm trying to have that not happen.

Noah.

Yes, sir.

You can see and hear.

Well, you can't see, but you can hear.

It's hard for me to not feel a tremendous amount of envy for Eric's life.

So maybe I need to hear from you, and maybe Eric needs to hear as well, how his behavior is hurting you.

When Eric went on his trip,

he had hinted that he was doing it.

He had said, I'm going to be traveling next year, but the length of time

was surprising to all of us.

He had to do some tricks or some navigating with visas and how long he could stay in the European Union, which was a concern for us because we didn't want him to get in trouble over there, things like that.

He did a great job.

I mean, he didn't get in trouble, but it was a concern.

But there were periods of time where he simply, we had no idea what country he was in.

He wouldn't let us know.

And, you know, he has no obligation to that, but he is a good friend of ours.

And our mutual friends would say, hey, do you know where Eric is?

And I'd say, I have no idea.

I haven't talked to him in a month.

And that was, we hoped he was okay.

You know, I was a concern.

I know it sounds very maternal, but we did care about him.

We still care about him.

And so that much travel, that much bouncing around

was

an issue for us.

Do you feel that Eric is incapable of taking care of himself?

No, I do not feel he is incapable of taking care of himself.

I'm not especially worried about him from a safety point of view.

Well, no, I mean, you know, you have friends who

in life who are more reckless

or make bad decisions.

Is Eric one of these friends?

No, he's very down-to-earth, and that's one of the things I appreciate about him.

Okay.

And how much time would you have spent with him before he went on his journeying, generally speaking?

Generally,

how big a part of your life has he been?

I would say he would do something with her family two to three times a month.

Okay.

And maybe, maybe something with me and our mutual friends an additional time.

Okay.

And you miss him.

Yeah.

Right.

And why is it important for him to have a relationship with your daughter?

Well, you made a joke earlier about a sports metaphor.

She's not going to get any sports metaphors for me either.

Eric has a knowledge of music and sports that neither my wife nor I have, and I'd like her to encounter people like Eric who can, you know, give her different perspectives on things.

You just want to use him to siphon off his sports knowledge for your daughter so that she's not socially ostracized?

Obviously, this request is very selfish of me to hobble Eric and make him homebound.

But yes, there's a portion of that.

for my family.

Well, when it comes to hobbling, how much hobbling do you want?

How badly do you want to hobble him?

Yeah, he's made reservations for this upcoming year, and I don't think it's fair to say you have to cancel those or you have to give me your passport or anything like that.

No, it certainly is not.

It certainly would not be fair.

Yeah, the goal here isn't to human traffic him.

I think that

six months abroad and six months at home is a fair compromise.

Okay.

Eric, does that feel like something you want to do?

I mean, if six off and six on is what he wants, that's commensurate with what I'm doing this year, more or less.

I mean, I'm here this month.

I'm going to be home all summer for three months, and then I'm going to be home in the middle of November for the rest of the year.

So

that's

almost four months right there for a guy who's really into counting months when it comes to his baby's age.

Seems like you're not counting months when it comes to your best friend.

And I'm going to supplement my quest that he can't live with us while he's at home.

He's got to find his own place to live.

Yeah.

Why are you, why?

How long have you been deadbeating around this house now?

Yeah, he's being really unfair right now.

So

before I came home, he said, why don't you stay here?

And I was like, I don't really know.

I'm not so into that.

So I come home.

I got an apartment that was on a temporary lease all through December.

And then

so

the lease, that was up at the beginning of January.

And so

him and his family were going to Hawaii for a week.

And they said, hey, can you stay at our our house and watch the cat?

I said, yeah, sure.

So I said, so they come back.

And then

I was going to be leaving here in three more weeks.

And so I thought, oh, well, why am I just going to go get an apartment or get a place for three weeks?

I can just stay here for the three weeks.

And before I leave, hey, can I stay here?

Yeah, of course.

No problem.

Done.

That was the end of the thing.

So he's not being entirely fair when he presents it this way.

It did not go down like I was, you know.

So

what you're saying is you were staying in their house and then you realized you wanted to stay for another three weeks.

So you said, hey, can I stay for another three weeks?

And he said, yeah, sure.

But you're surprised that maybe

that's a little bit too long?

Well, he offered at the outset.

He said, when you come home, you can just stay with us.

Yeah, well, he changed his mind.

He changed his mind.

It's too long.

I don't think he, you know, I'm sure Noah intends to honor his agreement with you, right, Noah?

You're not going to kick him out.

No.

I'm just saying that it's not fair to present it that way when I could just go get an apartment on my own.

It's not like I'm like, you know, loafing here out of necessity or out of, you know, laziness of, you know, not being able to go get a place or whatever.

We get it.

Golden rabbits have been very kind to you.

Yeah,

you're getting a little braggy.

now.

You know what I mean?

Oh, I apologize.

You're getting a little gold medallion.

I I apologize.

Maybe even early platinum medallion.

That kind of like new money.

Unlike the diamond medallions who never talk about it.

Anyway, you send in some evidence, Noah.

Is that right?

Some photos.

I did.

I did.

And here we have a photo of

you and

Eric together.

Yeah, that was at my wedding.

At your wedding to each other.

That's what it looks like.

I wish.

And both very handsome young men.

And here we have Eric

with your daughter, I presume.

Yeah,

my wife had crocheted some watermelon hats for him.

This was his birthday.

Yes, everyone listening should go to the website, maximumfund.org, to the Judge John Hodgman website, so you can see these fantastic watermelon knit hats that Eric and the 20th-month-old, although a little younger in this photo, are wearing, matching watermelon hats.

Very adorable, very lovely.

And here's

Noah's, your daughter's first birthday.

Yeah, and this was last May, and Eric wasn't there.

He was Croatia or something.

And, you know, his absence was noted.

We had a, my family, we don't have, my wife and I don't have any family in the area.

We're very little.

Like your daughter was like, where is Uncle Watermelon hat?

Our friends had asked, hey, where is Eric?

It was.

It was surprising that he wasn't there.

And

it was poignant that his absence

wasn't present.

And Eric, do you remember where you were when this photo was taken?

You weren't in this photo.

No, I wasn't.

It's in April.

You don't even know your watermelon hat niece's birthday?

Because you've been out on the beach too long in Croatia?

Yeah, the sunbird goes to your head.

I was in Croatia during that.

You were in Croatia.

And here is a photo

that you sent in, Eric, of a beach in Croatia.

Quote, it is from the island of Brock in Croatia.

Sometimes I would take my laptop down to the dock and work while I sat with my feet in the water, smiley emoticon.

Objection, Your Honor.

Brock isn't an island.

That's a brand of butterscotch candy.

Sustained.

Thank you.

This evidence is to prove what exactly?

That you were having a great time while you were skipping your best friend's daughter's birthday?

Well,

how can you deny a man his ability to work on the beach and, you know, just sit there, feet in the water, working away?

That is exactly the question.

How can I deny a man or woman the right to sit on a Croatian beach or the right to move around the world legally of their own decision-making at all?

Noah, I ask you, what is the overriding imperative, emergency imperative,

such that you would ask this court to restrict Eric's motion and free exercise of his rights around the globe?

I think Jesse touched on it earlier, that if he continues in the pace he's going, he is going to die in a foreign country not knowing anybody.

That's extreme.

That's exaggerated.

But if he moved to Korea or Croatia, we would miss him more.

We wouldn't see him as often.

But I would be happy to know that he was

forming relationships there, maybe meeting somebody, whatever he wants to do, and then we could go visit him sometime.

But where it is now, he's just not anywhere long enough that he can form new relationships, and he's also giving up his current ones.

I think it's fun, and I do admire his ability to do this, but I think in the long term, it's not sustainable or it shouldn't be.

So you would prefer that he live in Korea and have a new Magic the Gathering friend than travel around the world and come back and visit you?

Ultimately, I think

it would be nice to know somebody in Korea and somebody you respect, and I would be happy to know that he was making a life there.

Are you worried that he is not making life connections?

I am worried about that.

Does your worry predate his travel?

No.

He was very charismatic and he would make lots of friends out here.

Eric, are you...

Wait a minute.

When you say he's very charismatic and making lots of friends, do you mean that he was starting a cult?

Eric can do whatever he wants to do,

except for traveling too much.

We're taking applications, Jesse.

I'm in, but only if one of the precepts of the cult is that we play a lot of a card game based on what would happen if the king and queen of Finland were rabbits and also got divorced.

Of course.

It would be a trauma for the entire nation of Finland.

For many reasons.

Our rabbit, king and queen are divorcing.

Eric,

does any of Noah's concern that you are not making normal, healthy human connections and maintaining normal, healthy human relationships in life resonate with you?

Or is he cuckoo birds, to use a sports metaphor?

No, I don't.

No, I don't.

I have a lot of friends.

I have a lot of good friends.

I feel very lucky to have the large network of friends that I do.

And when I travel, I invariably meet new people and make new friends, you know, to varying degrees of closeness.

But

I don't like the friends that I have here that I still have here in Seattle and that I feel just as close to as I did before I left a year ago.

And I don't think it has harmed those relationships.

Now,

I will say that many of those relationships were changing anyway because everyone had a child in the same year.

And so, like, so we can, we just have a bunch of friends that have all had babies at the same time.

And my relationship to those people

changed

relatively.

Why is it different?

Why is it different in any way?

Why should it be any different now that we have this baby?

We're still the same.

We're still all the same.

Yeah, I still party.

It's always going to be great, guys.

It's always going to be great.

We're always going to still meet up and play Magic the Gathering.

Exactly.

Here's my question, though.

I'm looking at a picture of you working on a computer

on a beach in Croatia.

You're saying you can work from your computer anywhere in the world.

Why is Noah ever in a situation where he doesn't know where you are?

Well, so the only part of his argument that has meat, I think, is that I am

very bad at keeping in touch with anyone,

friends, family, everybody.

And so they usually reach out to me.

It takes me a while to remember that I haven't talked to

such and such for quite some time.

And then I think, oh, I should call my mom.

And then.

Wait, you know your mom as such-and-such?

She changed her teacher.

Did you hear that Herrick's mom and dad, such-and-such and and so-and-so, are divorcing?

It's a great new game.

Good news for the game.

Bad news for Finland.

So I think that's one of the things that I do have.

It is a character flaw that I have where I am not so good at

diligently keeping in touch with people, checking in.

Are you on the social meads?

Yes, sir.

You are.

Are you updating your social medias regularly?

Why not?

I don't know.

Well, I'm not saying it's an obligation, but I'm just saying, why do you think you're bad at keeping people apprised of your movements, including your mother such-and-such?

Mostly because I think

I don't want to go.

I'm just like, who cares?

Who really is going to be?

Noah cares.

Yeah, I know.

I know Noah cares.

And I bet

it's just a gamble, but I bet your mom cares.

I think she's off and on.

But no, I know what you mean.

Yes,

I could do better,

you know, keeping people abreast of what I'm doing, where I'm at, what's going on.

All right.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I am going to either

walk through this

frosted glass door into a special airline.

lounge in my own home or realize that this whole thing has been a dream all the time.

In In any case, I'll be back soon with my decision.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Noah, how are you feeling about your case?

Jesse, when I filed this case, I thought I had a 0% chance of winning.

It was half love letter and half intervention.

But after hearing the conversation between the parties and the judge,

I'm going to change it to super 0%, super duper 0.

Well, I mean, it seems like your best bet would have been roll out that half love letter, half intervention line earlier when the judge was in the room.

Well, I guess there wasn't the right opportunity for it.

But nonetheless, I am aware of, I've listened to the show.

I'm aware of the judge's preferences for personal volition.

And that's how it's going to go.

Who's better at Magic the Gathering?

Noah is.

He was quite good back in the day.

Is it because of strategy or just because he's one of those rich kids that could buy as many cards as they wanted until they had a lifetime supply of Sarah angels?

Oh,

someone knows what's up.

He's smarter than I am.

That goes a long way towards being better at magic.

Well, we'll see what the judge has to say about all this when we come back in just a second.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

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The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Let me ask you a question.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

So it turns out there isn't a secret airport luxury lounge here in my chambers.

That was part of my dream.

I just walked into a wall and woke up.

Who are you, people?

Are we doing a podcast?

Good morning.

In any case,

we have a lot of cases and have had a lot of cases involving

life transitions and particularly the damage.

There's no other word for it

that is done to friendships as people go through different transitional periods in their lives.

Noah's had a child, and that's a major life transition.

Eric has turned 40.

That's a major life transition.

And it is in no way surprising that the childless man who turns 40 goes on the run and the childful man who has a very young child wants to keep everything

precisely the same.

among all of his friends and in many ways, I'm sure, enjoy this fantastic new addition to his family,

but also feeling the same

little bit of, I don't want to say ambivalence, but concern about what this means for his future, in particular his social future, which is something that still matters to humans before they turn 40.

They still care about that stuff.

Turn 40, it doesn't matter.

You might as well be on a beach in Croatia for the rest of your life.

That's how little you care about

making sure your social life is up to snuff.

And particular, if that's true, if you are someone someone who does not have

a life partner or a child or anything or anyone holding him back.

And maybe,

as I suspect, it may be true of you, Eric, someone who is very happy and comfortable being alone.

Is that not so?

Yes, that's true.

In fact, once you're out there on the road where no one knows you,

you are essentially profoundly alone.

It's very easy to reach the conclusion that no one cares about you because once you're out there in the world, no one does.

So you confuse the disinterest of

the person at the finished grocery store with your life as generalized disinterest that extends as well to your old friend Noah and to your mom, such-and-such.

And this is a problem.

This, I acknowledge, is a problem.

You know, Noah, you know that your case is pointless,

baseless, and illegal,

as far as I'm concerned.

You are trying to enslave a human being

who has every right to make his life choices.

And not just a human being, and not merely just your friend, but a divorced rabbit card game magnate living a life of international adventure.

There's no way I was ever going to order him

to hang out with you and your wife and your dumb baby.

Come on, this guy's living the dream.

I know your baby's not dumb.

Your baby's adorable.

You know what I'm talking about.

But, but,

because

not only does he have basic human rights, but he's also having a good time.

Right, Eric?

Yes, sir.

Right.

And having a good time is part of his life transition right now.

You said that this is...

You never intended to win, and it was barely a case at all, that it was instead half love letter, half intervention.

As Jesse said, as I was listening through my chamber door, of those two things, love letter is the only thing I care about.

Because the intervention

is a ginned-up charge to begin with, because I don't think that there's a profound danger to Eric's life or livelihood that requires intervention.

I think he's doing exactly what he needs to as a 40-year-old man, and just exploring the world inside his own head.

And

yet Love Letter is very compelling because he is your friend.

And when friends go away, it's hard, particularly if you have a child, because I think that your desire to have Eric be a part of your child's life is sincere

and

compelling in its own way.

You know, I wasn't lying when I said that I played poker last night and I

am a grown-up and I had some martinis and I stayed up too late and maybe part of the reason why I'm having a hard time articulating myself right now.

That poker game is a game that I played with some very close friends

from

starting with my own bachelor party before my wedding and continuing bi-weekly

quite regularly for a decade.

All of these friends,

you know, I was there when I heard the first of our group announce that he and his wife were going to have a baby.

That child is now 15 years old.

We were there for many marriages, a couple of divorces, a lot of life changes.

And the poker game,

which is, by the way, a kind of card game, in case you didn't know,

was consistent for a decade and felt like it would be.

But then, you know, ultimately, it broke up And we just stopped meeting.

And our own individual adult lives took us in different directions.

And it was sad.

But it was, no one wanted to play anymore.

No one wanted to play that game anymore.

People changed.

We got back together for the first time in five years.

And it was a lot of fun.

Maybe too much fun.

And we might play again.

But

there comes a time in friendships where you start playing different games.

Magic the Gathering isn't the game anymore.

And you find new ways to approach and

hang out with and be with one another.

And when those things change, say someone decides to go on a mad board game licensing around the world spree for two years or longer,

the only thing you can really do as a friend is respect that and appreciate that if the friendship is meant to continue, it will.

Indeed, Eric, I think, wants to continue the friendship.

He is going to be back for a large stretch of time in the next year.

And the year after that,

who knows what he will do.

But it is his choice.

And you know this.

You know this.

I will say, Eric,

you've heard the love letter portion.

And I want you to take it to heart.

Because your friends love you.

And I venture to guess your mom does too.

And you have a responsibility to let the people who care about you in your life know that you're okay.

And

you are welcome and encouraged to go on this journey.

Travel, you know, is usually,

you know, going out into the world is usually a way of going into yourself.

And

that's great and vital in certain times in your life.

But you can't go so far into yourself that your head is up your own butt and no one knows where are.

So here is what I am ordering.

Obviously, I find in Eric's favor,

Noah's petition to forcibly restrain him in Seattle is denied.

But Eric, you have to create

a social media presence

on any service that you like.

Maybe there's some hot Finnish social media thing that we don't know about yet that your friends can subscribe to and just get a sense of where you are in the world which you should update once a week with even if it's just a photo I think there may be some photo social media apps I'm guessing there might be

you have to also

stop staying over

in

Noah's house I think you both realized that that extended stay was a mistake not just because

house guesting is emotionally treacherous work for both host and guest, and it puts stress on a relationship more than anything else.

No, in fact, just because of that.

That's the reason.

Being a house guest is no fun and hosting a guest for a long extended period of time is no fun.

And if you want the relationship and the friendship

to continue,

you have to get out of his house when you are in Seattle.

You know this already.

You already knew this.

It was a mistake.

You move on.

I would recommend that you

find some kind of

apartment share or something so that you have a permanent address somewhere in the world.

But I don't think you're right.

I think you're enjoying being rootless too much right now.

So as long as you can do a

short-term rental in Seattle or

stay in a hotel or I don't know what, but you got to get out of this house.

And

I guess that's what I'm saying.

Someday you will need to settle down, Eric, because the life that you are leading as a globe-trotting freelance board game acquirer is a fantasy.

A fantasy akin to Magic the Gathering.

That's why I'm so excited about it.

That's why I want to be you.

But I am not going to be the kind of person who takes his admiration for you and attempts to stop you from doing what you're doing.

That's Noah's job.

You go out there and you explore that world.

But stay in touch and maybe you guys can play Magic the Gathering online together.

That's a thing that happens, right?

Yes.

That's another deep topic, if you want to go that far.

Why?

It's a terrible program.

Stop.

I mean,

yeah.

You would rather not knowing whether your friend is alive or dead than play Magic the Gathering online with him?

Honestly, we play board games now.

We haven't played Magic together in years.

We're board game fans.

All right.

Only there were board games that you could play online.

Find a board game that you can play online.

Look, I'm going to tell you a board game that I like called Scrabble.

Scrabble.

You can play another one if you want.

But one way you could choose to stay in touch,

Eric, would be to

digitize Divorcing Rabbits and play games with all your friends and family.

And each time you take a turn, they know you haven't died.

Make it so.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Noah, you brought the case, and you've lost, though, with some caveats.

How do you feel?

No, I think it's a good ruling.

I think it's fair and reasonable.

I think Eric is doing what's best for him, and I hope he just doesn't forget his friends and family along the way.

What board game would you like to play with Eric online?

Agricola.

When now?

Gasuntite?

Agricola.

Agricola?

Yeah, that's the name of it.

It's a very popular, very good board game.

What happens in that board game?

Is it

you what you grow soybeans?

People drink too much cola sodas and they get freaked out and angry and get really aggro with each other.

You build fences and you breed your cows and your sheep.

You grow wheat.

It's astonishing.

Yeah, that sounds pretty sweet.

Eric, how are you feeling?

I'm very good.

Yeah.

I mean, that's about, we talked about before we sat down what we expected.

And that sounds exactly in line with what I expected the outcome to be.

Thanks both of you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Appreciate it.

You know, we've been doing My Brother, My Brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listen.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no.

Nope, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lawrence.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Judge Hodgman, I can't help but notice that you've moved your chambers to a Croatian beach.

Yeah, it turns out I can have my chambers anywhere I want.

I can chamber it up on a beach.

I can chamber it up in

a train station.

And those are the only two things in the world.

Judge Hodgman, you have children.

Like, you have abandoned your children.

Our litigant had no attachments

besides his trading cards.

What can I say?

I've been inspired.

Now that I know that there are unclaimed rabbit divorce board games and card games out there that I didn't know about before, I have to go find them.

Yeah.

I think that's fair.

So my wife and I are having a rabbit divorce.

I'm leaving my kids.

I'm going to give them both a pack of Uno cards to remember me by.

And

I'm going to travel.

I'm going to ride the circuit, traveling the world, looking for weird games.

I'm just going to go ahead and leave my two children this half a deck of meal born cards that I found.

Mealborn.

And

I'm going to Finland, have a sauna.

I'm going to go to Carcassonne, France, and play Carcassonne.

Oh, good idea.

I bet that's been done a lot, and I want to meet the people who are doing it.

Hey, listen, if you want to submit a case for Judge John Hodgman, it's easy and fun.

Just go to maximumfund.org slash JJ H O.

All the details are there.

We love and need your cases.

So if you have a dispute, big or small, with someone else who'd be willing to appear on the program, go to maximumfund.org slash jjho and share your case with us there.

It can be a half love letter and half intervention.

And it could even be a quarter love letter and three quarters of an intervention.

Any proportion of intervention and love

and control and bullying will take bullying.

That was an initiative, but anyway.

I would like to mention this, Judge Hodgman.

The Put This On Shop.

Going gangbusters.

Thanks to everybody who has shopped at the Put This On Shop

from the Judge John Hodgman listening audience.

You can use the code Bat Brothers there to get free shipping on anything.

Almost all of our stock is on sale.

We also have new baseball caps featuring the states of California and New York, which are super cool, and our classic star baseball cap.

And literally outside the studio right now, my colleague Jennifer and her fiancé Shane are leading a photography effort to get tons and tons and tons of new vintage knickknacks, menswear, accessories, and beautiful things into the shop.

It's at putthisonshop.com and the code Bat Brothers gets you free shipping.

I will go and type in a code because I love to do that and all the stuff there is great.

Thank you, Judge Hodgman.

Thank you.

All personally selected by me.

Judge Hodgman, are you on the road at the moment?

You have anything going on?

Jesse Thorne, to answer your question,

I am not on the road this month.

I am only at sea.

I will be sailing and appearing on and sitting in hot tubs with the various friends and fellow cruisers on the Jonathan Colton cruise at the end of this month.

I suspect at this point

there may be no cabins or tickets left, but you may as well check by going to that website because that's basically all the live performances I have planned for the moment.

I will let you know when I hit the road again because it is a lot of fun to see y'all.

Our show is produced by Julia Smith, edited by the great Mark McConville.

Mark was doing some

spontaneation

and

superegoing at the SF Sketchfest.

If you haven't heard those shows on which Mark appears, those are great, hilarious shows.

Yeah, Mark McConville, it's a good point that we should be plugging Super Ego every time.

It's one of the great podcasts.

Yeah, very, very, very, very funny show that has consistently over many years refused to join maximumfund.org uh you can join us on facebook there's a maximumfund.org group there at maximumfun.reddit.com for the world's friendliest and perhaps world's only friendly reddit subcommunity um

and uh you can follow us on social media at jesse thorne and at hodgman and now on instagram uh you're on instagram is john hodgman right john that is right j-o-h-n-h-o-d-g-m-a-n

And I have recently joined Instagram, joining the crowd of 2007.

And you can find me at put.this.on.

But just be aware there's going to be a lot of menswear-related stuff there.

So if you're not interested in that, do not sign up.

Okay, but I will, because I am.

Oh, cool.

We'll talk to you guys next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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