LET LOVE HAPPEN - RELATIONSHIPS COUNSELORS ALL THE WAY FROM AUSTRALIA!!

Hi everyone, Cat on the Loose Friday to get your weekend started.

And I have to say, I am humbled, I am excited, I have goosebumps right now because I am interviewing this lovely, lovely, super successful, talented couple all the way from Australia.

And they're here live with me today.

Tatiana and Max, they're relationship experts.

They've been married for 10 years.

They They founded this app, this relationship app called Let Love Happen.

They will tell us all about it.

Hi, guys.

Oh, my God.

I can't believe you know, Australia is on the top of the top of the top of my bucket list.

It's been a dream of mine.

I have not made my way there yet, but hey, hopefully, soon.

We'd like to have you here.

Oh, my God.

I'm so excited.

So, just to situate ourselves, it's 2 p.m.

for me, Friday.

I'm in LA.

And you guys, it's Saturday in Sydney.

What time?

9.25, 9.30 in the morning.

Saturday morning.

We have like a major, major time difference.

I'm going to start.

So you guys are, you, you

coach, you, you do counseling for couples, right?

That are having trouble.

Just explain super quickly what you do before I bombard you with my 10 million questions.

Sure.

So look, the main people that we work with are couples who've got problems in their marriage or their relationship.

They may be committed relationships, they may have been married for you know 5, 10, 50, 60 years and so they come because they've experienced problems, issues, intimacy,

connection, all sorts of things.

They may be on their way out.

wanting to, you know, throw in the towel and often like the last last resort for a lot of couples.

So they really need some help.

Yeah.

And so you only counsel couples, or like if it was a single person like me, or like a lot of my listeners, do you counsel single people as well?

Single partners.

Single partners, yeah.

Basically, our client is the relationship.

So even if a partner comes on his own, we will work with a partner to help him or her work on the.

Yeah, so you don't have to be married.

married like if i'm i have a boyfriend or a situationship with someone and i want to find out or you know anybody you guys would guide and help right that's your expertise

that's right that's right provided it's about you wanting to to talk about the relationship whatever that looks like hey so if you want

for mental health or for something else we probably do a referral to someone else but if it's relationship uh focus or if you want to chat about your situation or you're married or your community,

then yeah, we're it.

Okay, awesome.

And one thing that we were saying before we get started that I personally never seen before,

of course, I've seen a gazillion guy, therapists, counselors, relationship experts, or girls that do the same.

I've never seen a couple offering to counsel other couples and other people together at the same time.

That is super interesting.

Yeah, super interesting.

And the other thing that people say when they come to see us is: we've never, we've tried like a single therapist.

It has or it has not worked.

But what they like about what we do is that they're obviously Tatia and I are doing it together.

So you get the male and the female perspective.

The other thing

is you guys are pretty, you're not old.

You're not like 70 or in your 60s.

And so they like as they can relate to issues that they might be going through and you know that the challenges of family and career and friendships and

parenting, all sorts of stuff.

Yeah.

Okay, but now I have a question.

If you're counseling someone, let's say you're talking to me, and don't you guys ever disagree?

Like maybe she thinks I should do something and you think you should do it.

How do you deal with that?

Because you're not going to argue in front of the client, right?

Definitely not.

So what happens if you guys don't agree on what the person?

Huh?

Sometimes there will be a look, a quick look that I'll give Tatiana, but we mostly chat about it after the session.

Yes, yes, definitely.

So

in the session, we work really well.

It's a very good compliment.

And sometimes if I feel like Max has said something that probably probably I'm not 100%

agree with it, I normally bring a different perspective.

And this is the

best to bring that balance between the female and the main perspectives.

So you don't like pinch him under the table or kick his ass.

Most of the time,

our customers travel long distances to see us in person.

So if we have the advantage to be in a camera, probably we will use those methods.

But most of the time, we work pretty well.

Because because you can basically sorry she could you can do the pinch on the um under the table but when it's face-to-face we it really can't do that but then the clients usually right right but you can counsel anybody now via zoom right anywhere in the world so if anybody's listening to you guys here in the united states and they want to see you you can talk to them like we're talking right now via zoom right

absolutely yes and a lot of our customers if not most of them are online customers all over the world amazing okay Okay, so I have a bunch of questions.

Some are mine, some are my listeners sent to you.

Are you guys ready?

Sure.

Okay, well, you've been married for 10 years.

I think everybody asks that question.

Probably you guys must have answered a million times.

You've been married for 10 years.

You have three kids.

You work together.

You do everything together.

Is there a secret?

to having a happy long-term marriage.

I personally feel so many people give up so quickly these days.

Yeah, yeah, that is a big question.

We're still trying to work it out ourselves.

But I will say what has really made a difference for us and what we try and educate our clients to do is to work on yourself.

So work on your own needs, work on the things that really fill your tank.

and try not to get that necessarily from your partner all the time.

Couples and relationships get in trouble when they're emotionally fused 100% of the time yeah

you know we seek our validation from our significant other rather than get it from ourselves so the secret is you know

meet your own needs and learn to meet your partner's needs that's really the key thing sense of humor as well really important you're not going to last long unless you can have a laugh right yes and you're going to have fun you're going to have fun with your partner and it's um in terms of what Matt is saying it's about self-differentiation knowing who you are I think it does

a big big component in successful relationships yeah I think it's amazing that you guys said that because yes a lot of the guys that I talk to a lot of guys I interview and even off of the podcast many times the complaint is, oh, my girlfriend basically doesn't have a life.

I was just talking to a guy last night, a friend, and he was saying, Oh, I was dating this girl, and she had zero interests other than being with me.

So, the whole day I'm working, and I have a life, and this girl is like trying to figure out what the hell I'm doing.

So, I think it's super interesting that you said each one of

the people in the relationship should have their own individual lives, right?

And then you kind of complement each other as opposed to being completely codependent, right?

Exactly right.

And that's also the secret.

I think the other thing that often people ask us is: how do you keep the passion alive after a long time?

That's definitely the next question, but so jump right on it.

Yeah, let's jump there because it's related to this one.

The surest way for you not to have that is to engulf each other and not have your own interests and

be codependent, to use your word there, Kat.

So we say to people, in order to keep the passion alive, you have to be your own person.

You have to have your own interests.

You have to not give your power away to your partner.

You have to hold on to yourself.

Yeah, but look, let me interrupt you there for a sec.

I agree, it all sounds great on paper, but let's be honest: we're all humans.

So, you're with a person for many, many years, as much as you may love them.

At one point or another, maybe, and that's a complaint to a lot of a lot of couples, the sex gets insanely lukewarm or boring, or then you do it like once a week, and then once a week becomes once a month, and then many times the guy goes and has an affair, sometimes the woman goes and had an affair.

So, if somebody's in that situation, what do you say to like spark that fuego again before you go do it with somebody else?

Definitely, that's a great question.

Um, What would you say there?

I want you to go first, babe.

Ah, I wanted to listen.

You got a little blushy there.

We would say, so

intimacy is much bigger than just the physical sexual act, right?

Yeah.

And so what we find that when people are starting to look outside of the relationship, outside of the marriage, there's usually weaknesses within the intimacy and there's four types uh Emotional intimacy, physical, spiritual, and intellectual.

And so what we love to do is then I'll be sitting down with you or whoever the person is or the couple and work out in which of those four areas is this couple really struggling.

So

you don't think the problem is exactly like on the sex part?

You think something else is causing that lack of sex?

Absolutely.

It's always about the emotional bond that exists between you and your partner, right?

It's just that most guys, let's be honest, think it's just, you know, the sex will fix it or I'm not getting enough sex.

Because that's how we tend,

in the main, to get our needs for affection and attachment met.

For women, it's slightly different.

You guys tend to enjoy conversation and non-physical affection a lot more.

And look at how you deal with those

dating apps.

Most women will read their full profile, will study their die out, or they'll click, click, click.

Yes, yes.

Most

just go click, click, click, click, click, click, click.

Yes, that we always talk about that on the podcast.

And I'm going to ask you about the dating apps in a little bit, but yeah, you're absolutely right.

But just finalizing this subject, which is insanely important.

to a lot of people out there.

I've already told my listeners many times in the past, I was married for 14 years

and my husband was wonderful in many ways, but our sex life was super lame, super lame.

He died.

God rest his soul.

He was a nice guy, but I was, I got to the point that as I was married to him, I thought it was normal to like not have sex or hardly ever have sex.

I was like, oh, I think that's how women feel.

And it's not.

Like now, from doing doing the podcast and dating and everything i think we deserve to have a healthy mature wonderful fulfilling sexual life so to me when i meet whoever is gonna date me i tell them look sex is super important to me so if you're the kind of guy that likes it once a month it's not going to work out because I decided that I don't want another relationship where I am so frustrated sexually.

And I think it's okay.

So, a lot of people out there in similar situations, whether it's because I know you said men like a lot of sex, but I gotta tell you, it's changing.

Nowadays, a lot of women are like me.

They're comfortable talking about it, they're comfortable asking for it.

And the ones that are not, I think they should see you guys, they should do therapy because I think everybody should be fulfilled sexually.

But, anyways, if somebody's listening and they say, oh my God, you know, I'm not getting it enough.

I'm not happy.

I'm super frustrated.

Do you have like one first step?

Like before they're ready to do therapy, what would be the first step that you tell them to do?

Talk to their partner?

I'll let Jatina answer this one, but before she does, let me jump in here because I want to share.

what is a really common thing that presents cat.

Yeah.

A couple of comments see us and they say, guess what, guys?

Before we got married, the sex used to be great.

The intimacy was fantastic.

As soon as we got committed and we got engaged or we got married, just dried up.

Yeah.

And so

the reason why that tends to happen is that you're accommodating to each other way too much.

Yes.

There's anxiety in the system in your relationship and you're pacifying each other.

You're accommodating.

You are people pleasing.

The secret is to stop doing that.

The moment you stop doing that, you hold on to yourself, you confront yourself,

you self-differentiate, then

the action in the bedroom totally improves.

Yes, and just to add to what Max is saying, and you touch in a very important component that makes a difference, and it's communication, Kat.

So it is all about setting expectations.

And if things are not going according to how we want and need, we need to be able to express that in a safely and open way with our partner.

Now, you did also mention that, you know, these days is changing and women talk more about this thing.

And it comes to this new era of women feeling more secure and more confident.

That's why we can see more women talking about sex because it comes from that.

It comes from that confidence and from that self-worth.

There's a lot of components playing a part, you know, self-differentiation and communication.

But

in talking about, you know, those

years and moving through the marriage, it's very important to be able to communicate to your wife or your committed partner, whatever it is, or your

husband.

Look, I'm not liking how often we are engaging sexually.

Let's talk about this.

I feel this way.

And always come from an I perspective because from an I, you will merge the wee.

And it's about helping the relationship grow, not to make the other feel less or to judge each other in that specific aspect, which is very sensitive.

But you know, it happens a lot.

I know because I talk to women, I learn from talking to them, from doing the podcast, so many times girls tell me, Oh, if I complain to my guy that I want to have more sex, that I want to do this, that I want to, they get so judged.

They get so judged.

It pains me to say that this day and age, because I think you know, women, just as much as men should be able to say whatever they want.

But so many times, and especially not so much in marriages, but you know, when you start dating someone and you want to feel like you can tell them what's important to you, and many, many times the guy judges you the wrong way.

It's hard, but it happens a lot.

I mean, it has happened to me, has happened to a lot of my friends.

Keep in mind, too, we say to couples the best sex comes from the best relationships right so if you want to have really good sex really work on your relationship work on your emotional bonding work on yourselves work on what your relationship is like right now you can't have great intimacy in the bedroom and have a crappy relationship it just doesn't work that way so intimacy sexual intimacy is a reflection of the quality of the relationship i love that that is so true so speaking about that, it's a question I ask all of my guests.

I think almost all of my guests that I've had on all these four seasons.

And it's a controversial answer.

We never come up to the final decision, but I want to ask you guys your opinion.

So when you're dating somebody new,

How long do you think you should wait until you have sex?

Of course, men want to, most men want to jump right on it, like after the first, the second date.

I was known in the past, I kind of jumped the gun.

Like, I really like the guy.

Like, on my second date,

I want to have sex because I want to know if we have chemistry.

And of course, it has backfired.

I've had experts on the show that told me, oh, you got to withhold sex for four months, six months.

And then I got hundreds of messages like, this woman is crazy.

What the hell is she thinking?

My guy friends,

one of my guy friends that I interviewed, he was like, oh, if you girls use this tactic of keeping the vagina hostage and not giving a sex, guess what?

We're going to go have sex with somebody else.

So it's always like, what are we supposed to do?

What is your opinion?

Is there a certain amount of time before you decide to have sex with a new partner?

There isn't.

It's...

An individual decision that you need to make with the person that you are connecting with, right?

We like to say, and it depends on your value system as well, of course.

We like to say the longer you hold off, the better it is for

the relationship, right?

Because if you do it in the first week, in the second week, you haven't really built a connection that's beyond just the physical, right?

True.

The issue with people just doing, you know, doing it really quickly is that then you need to start getting to know whether there's commitment, there's chemistry to use your word there, Kat.

And

you often don't know.

You often don't know whether that's the case.

Because a lot of couples have really terrible sex at the beginning and you can grow to have fantastic sex after about five to six years together.

Sometimes we think if it's not great at the beginning, then it means it won't be great at the end.

We have found in our experience it's actually the opposite.

Really?

Yeah.

And so many people don't know how to build

really healthy, hot, passionate sex.

And it's something that you can train in and that you can work on.

I mean, when was the last time you had an open eye orgasm, for example?

An open eye, me?

Open eyes.

Anybody, any in your listening audience?

Yeah, that's a good question.

I don't even notice if my eyes are open.

But this is about that establishing that connection and that safety.

That level of safety and that level of intimacy, right?

It's not as common.

When we ask our couples, they say, well, I think I hardly ever do that.

Yeah,

true.

But why?

So, what do you say to these guys out there that say, you know what, if I'm dating this girl, I don't care how much I like her, but if she keeps playing this game for weeks and weeks, months and months, I'm going to go and bang somebody else.

Oh, then I would say, how important is this girl to you?

Obviously, not that important if you're going to go somewhere else.

And then I'd be saying to the girl, do you really want to be with a guy like that?

Aha, I love your answer.

That is so true.

So if it's the right guy, they will be patient, they will wait, and they will pursue you, right?

That's right, that's right.

And also for the girl, if it's the right, because maybe, as you say, sometimes, you know, it's the coin flips.

It's the

male, they think.

It's the girl that's really

pushing for it.

Yeah, it happens.

No, absolutely happens too well that's fascinating so tatiana when you guys met did he pursue you for a long time

well i actually made him wait

how long

yes and that's you know because um i've gone through relationships in the past where i have done it in a different way and i have got uh really hurt and it came to a moment in my life when i said this time it's going to be different i want a committed relationship i want something serious.

So, even from the beginning, when I started

dating, I said, Look, I'm not looking for a boyfriend because I was not looking for a boyfriend.

So, it was a relationship that it was established in different terms.

You know, I knew what I wanted, and he knew what I wanted, he wants to do because he also wanted that committed relationship.

So, we invested in our relationship, we invested in our friendship, we,

you know, we invested in our emotional bomb, and then later later on it unfolds that is super interesting so you you dated for quite a while before you decided he was the guy for you and you could trust him and all that good stuff

yes

okay yeah i i'm i i gotta say

all of the experts that i interviewed including tammy she's a matchmaker she's been doing matchmaking for over 30 years i interviewed her last week she said the same thing that you guys said: hey, if he goes out with someone else, he's not the right guy.

You better find out anyway.

The right person will totally wait.

They will think you're worth it.

They will whine and dine you and let you take your time.

So, yeah, that's a very interesting perspective.

I think if somebody's rushing you, they probably have all the wrong intentions, right?

Definitely.

And I'm not sure what you're going to think about this one, Pat.

But I do personally have this perspective: that uh men like uh to chase men like men like

the like things that are difficult not the things that are easy it becomes a little bit of a challenge which spices spices things up and it makes them more interesting interesting because um the woman is gonna get you know uh in this position where he knows she's she's hard to get and things get really interesting in this aspect yeah uh it's interesting that you brought that up because that's one of the things that has irritated me a lot in the past.

When people say that I agree, men are chasers, men are hunters, men like to hunt, they like to go after the girl.

And in my mind,

I know that's the game in a way that we should be playing.

And I have a super hard time playing games.

I think it's absurd.

Honestly, I think adults should kind of behave like adults, whether you're a guy or a girl.

Like if I like a guy, I should be able to text him.

I should be able able to say, Hey, do you want to go out?

Do you want to do this?

Do you want to do that?

But yes, at the end of the day, unfortunately, I think it's maybe nature and we can't change it because everybody says the same thing.

All the guys I interview, all the experts, guys are chasers.

They love the challenge.

If they think you're always available, they're not going to appreciate it.

But in my mind, if a guy really likes me

and he sees that I'm available to to him, I think he should say, wow, she really likes me back.

Easy enough.

So why do they complicate it?

Exactly.

I think games are fine, but so long as we all play by the same rules, right?

You know, adult games are fine, but we need to be playing by the same rules.

And I think sometimes we overcomplicate it.

We overcomplicate it.

We cut corners.

We try not to be mature enough and adult enough in terms of being in relationships.

And you need maturity.

You need to be responsible to be in a relationship.

It's not, David Schnaart's written this fantastic book that we often refer our clients to.

It's called Passionate Marriage.

And he has this great quote in it.

He says, intimacy is not for the faint-hearted.

So

you need to be secure in yourself.

You need to work through your stuff,

work through your baggage

and not play games, as you said.

Yeah, I love that.

Yes, intimacy has nothing to do with sex, it's much deeper.

It's amazing.

I can't believe half an hour already went by.

I'm going to take a minute and a half break, and I'll be right back with this wonderful couple.

You guys have so many great insights, and I have so many more questions.

So please stick around.

We are here with Tatiana and Max, live from Sydney, australia can't believe i want to ask some australia questions next

we'll be right back guys

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Okay, we're back with Tatiana and Max, founders of Let Love Happen.

You guys have been doing relationship counseling forever.

You're happily married.

Congratulations.

It's super amazing.

10 years, three kids.

You live in Australia, which I'm dying to visit.

So I'm insanely excited to have you guys here.

Thank you so much again.

Thank you.

Okay,

so let's ask a little bit about Australia.

I've never been there.

I have friends that have been there, and every time a friend goes there and comes back, they say, Oh my god, Australia is a dream place for women because there are so many men.

It's a fabulous place to date.

Is that true, or is that a myth?

It's a great place, yes.

I don't know about the men and the women ratio.

But it is a great, great place to be, for sure.

We love it here.

We wouldn't need anywhere else.

Yes.

And particularly Sydney.

Sydney is just an amazing city.

Yeah, so, but is it true that it's great for women to date?

Well, it depends on where you are.

If we talk about Holocaust,

it's a great place.

Yeah.

How about Sydney?

It's more family, a little bit more family oriented.

It depends.

I think

there's definitely

people that are struggling to find

partners and relationships, just like anywhere in the world.

But is it true that there are lots more men than women there?

No.

I wouldn't say so, Kat.

I think

it's about even, about 50-50, yeah.

Okay, so it's a myth.

All right.

So girls, all of the girls that told me, it's like just.

We hear a lot of women saying that they don't know where to find good men.

Really?

So I think that is a.

It's quite similar to the US, I would imagine.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The United States, I personally think it depends.

Some places are better, easier to date than others.

Yeah, it's a mixed bag.

I personally think in general, probably because I was married for so long, I find the dating scene insanely difficult.

I just, and like I said, I started this podcast

kind of like as a catharsis because I went back to the dating scene and I went through.

If you guys listen to season one, you're going to cringe, you're going to be like, oh my God, because I got tangled up with the worst man.

And obviously, at the time, I was in a horrible place in my life.

I thought I deserved to be treated like that.

And so the podcast has taught me a lot and has helped me learn that, like you guys were saying, we need to love ourselves first.

We need to put ourselves first.

We need to have our own interests, our work, our friendships.

And if somebody comes into our lives, it's to add to it, right?

So, but in general, I like I don't think it has to do with geography.

I just think dating, even before COVID, I think dating, like I said, it's complicated.

It's kind of like a game.

And you need to do this.

And if you don't do this,

and it drives me crazy.

And obviously, I guess I should be listening to you guys and kind of playing this game.

And I haven't, and that's probably why I'm still single.

I don't know.

But

it's been like an interesting process.

But

have you ever been to the United States?

Yes, I've been, I've been to LA.

I've only spent two or three days there, really liked it.

Okay.

Yes.

I haven't been anywhere else, though.

And we're dying to go to New York and do a media road trip.

Yeah, I hope you guys come and let me know.

Yeah, New York is awesome.

Because one of the questions that a listener sends is: if you see differences between the dating world in Australia and the dating world in the United States, I'm not sure if you can answer that because you haven't really spent a lot of time here, right?

Yeah, no, I mean, we've done a little bit of research in terms of

culture and

demographics.

And it's pretty close.

Australia and the US are very similar.

I would say probably put Canada in there as well

of

that Western

perspective and the struggles.

And, you know, sometimes I think people with arranged marriages, you know, like they've got it a little easier in some respects.

Really?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This is a controversial one.

Yeah, that's going to be a controversial one.

Sometimes, Sometimes, when you've got

family or

support systems that are for you and are trying to help you find the person that's going to suit, it's not necessarily a bad thing.

It definitely can be.

I'm not saying that it can't be, but look at how much we're struggling in other parts of the world where we've got to go and find and try to suss out ourselves who is going to be a good

healthy match for us.

Well, I honestly,

just to add to what he's saying,

not that we agree with it, but we respect it as well.

But just to add to what he's saying, when it's about arranged marriages, who chooses that partner, who chooses that wife or the husband?

It's the parents, and who knows you better.

So sometimes in the arranged marriages,

they do work, but we don't necessarily, we have also seen many couples that have been been in arranged marriages before and they have not liked it, they have left the family and they have stopped talking to the family for years because that's huge culturally, but they made the right decision to find the right partner.

I think this is a super controversial one because like you said, it delves into

cultures and cultural beliefs.

uh like where i am and the way i grew up i could never imagine anybody telling me or recommending someone to me.

But yeah, like you said, depending on the culture, I don't know.

That's a super tough one.

You guys are going to get

optional.

It should be optional.

Look, it should actually be the word approach is quite strong.

It should be an option that is put to the table.

And I say, this is an option we believe is good for you.

It's up to you.

But giving an option is very important because that's when it's also affected with self-differentiation and knowing what you want.

Got it.

Okay, moving on.

I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of emails about this one.

People are going to want to ask you guys to talk about that a little more and clarify.

That's a tough one.

Moving on, what do you guys think about dating apps?

In a way,

especially during COVID and everything, we couldn't go to bars, we couldn't go to restaurants, you're sitting at home alone, you want to meet somebody.

But on the other hand, I think it made

dating so superficial.

Like you were saying in the beginning, people just scroll, scroll, scroll like they're ordering food, like they're ordering pizza.

What is your take on it?

Is it a good idea to meet someone or it's just more like for fun?

I think it's the world that we live in, Kat.

I think they're not going away and I think there's some pluses to them.

The main issue with the dating apps that we see is that they're trying to sometimes match you according to the areas where you're similar, right?

um however most of us are attracted to people who are a temperamental opposite and a dating app won't pick that up dating agencies often don't pick that up right so i draw and i'll probably click or select or scroll and uh pick someone that i think is very similar to me to my values to my

And then in reality, sometimes those relationships don't actually work out.

They don't last the distance.

You know,

many times it's instant gratification.

We often work out.

They're so different, but the complementarity is what makes the relationship work and thrive.

So sometimes selecting someone who's not someone who shares,

is not very similar to you or shares the same things can be a good thing.

in terms of chemistry and making that relationship tick.

Are the dating apps big in Australia like they are here?

Oh, yes, they are.

Yeah.

Do you have all of them?

Tinder, Bumble, da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

They're all here.

They're all here.

And the stats are about the same.

Yeah.

I think it's a mixed bag.

Like I say, and I tell my friends that, yeah, if you want to give it a try, go out on a date.

I think it can happen.

I have a friend that found her husband on Tinder.

And yeah, I know it's like winning the lottery.

I think sometimes it's trying to find a diamond in the sand.

But yeah, like you said, they're not going to go away.

But yeah, but it's tough because that's just my personal opinion.

I think most people that are on these dating apps

just want quick sex or they lie a lot to get whatever they want.

So you kind of got to sift through a lot, right, before you find somebody worthwhile.

Definitely.

Yeah.

And the question then becomes, where do you go if you're not, if it's not for the dating app?

Exactly.

All right.

If you're not into um going to a club um or going to a pub where else do you go exactly

but often we don't remember that there are other options out there so clubs um places of interest uh faith settings like churches um

interest groups sporting um

groups,

events, right?

Yeah, true.

Special interest groups.

You can find people in all sorts of different ways.

ways.

It does not need to be all their time a dating app.

Yeah, no, I completely agree.

To me, it's exhausting.

I don't have time.

I don't have the patience.

And I like things a little more organic.

So, yeah, of course, I've used the dating apps before, but mostly

I just think it's way too much work.

So, what would you say?

for single women out there who are looking for a serious relationship, not a fling, not a one-night stand, is there a way, like a sure-fire way, that you meet somebody and you can figure out if he's telling the truth, if he's a serious guy, if he's just a player, or there is no way?

It's a hard, it's challenging to get an answer to that.

I would be asking if I was in that situation, I mean you can comment, babe, as well.

I would be asking

what's his his level of responsibility maturity and initiative taking right

so many guys that we see who are over 40 and still we're taking initiative we've taken responsibility with making commitments with holding a job right

you don't want to be dating an immature person

right so Someone is not interested, doesn't give you their time, is very protective about their privacy.

And you get a weird sense about how open they are.

I'd be probably staying away.

Yeah, that's a very, very good point.

Now,

do you think it's true if you're dating someone and they are not communicating with you all the time?

Does that mean they're not interested?

Because many times guys say, oh, I'm super busy.

I'm so sorry.

I have so much work.

he has nothing to do with you or is it a surefire way of knowing that hey if the guy is interested in you he finds time

well it could be both and i give you an example for our own relationship when we were dating and this is i'm just going to share something with personal here

um my expectation of of a guy that I was dating was to see that guy probably every second day, every three days.

When you just started dating?

Yeah, to get a call.

Max will do all the opposite.

He would just sometimes not get in contact with me for a whole week.

And I would think, oh, he's not interested.

He's not into it.

And I even remember saying to my best friend, who actually became a mate of owner,

when I said, This is nothing here, this guy, this is not going anywhere.

But it was just the way he was wired.

He liked his own space.

And I had to learn to read that and to respect that

so

don't make judgments about if the guy is doing that it could be that you just gotta find out so how do you find out

so um I remember actually well it does we talk about a game playing game but I just I just cut communication I just said you know what I have I'm not gonna waste my time here

if he wants me he will chase me

and it worked actually and then actually he will call me I would stop I stopped calling him And then he would call me and say, no, I'm busy.

I can't do this.

Like, I would go, like, this is, oh, sorry, it's not what you are.

So in the beginning,

you were after him.

You were making the effort, making the calls.

And then he wouldn't respond.

He would kind of...

He would kind of just disappear on you.

And then one day you said, then you just stopped calling and talking to him.

Yeah, I just said no, I'm not going to do this.

And I remember the thing that marked the difference.

I called him and he said, oh no, I'm just with a friend, a female friend, having dinner.

So he used to go with his girlfriends to have dinner.

And I was like, what's he doing?

But it was about just learning to read him.

And I think it's very important to learn these lessons.

Sometimes we're just quick, very

quick to jump to conclusions.

I just made my say, look, I'm not going to invest more time here.

And I just started doing my own thing.

And when he would call me to go out, I wouldn't just accommodate for him, I would just do my own thing.

And if I had the time to see him, I would see him.

And that's how he got more interested.

Ah, okay.

So, if there is anybody out there dating someone and they're confused, oh, this person doesn't call me this.

Today's Friday, he didn't call me to make plans.

You think the best approach is to leave it alone.

Don't pursue.

Leave that person.

If they like you, if they don't want to lose you, they're going to come after you.

Max is saying that

the surest way to know someone's interested is they give you their time, right?

Yeah, they give you their time and they give you their

effort, right?

So true.

For Tatira and I, at that time, there was also the age difference.

I'm 13 years older than her, right?

And so I was living in Sydney.

I had lots of a big friendship group.

I was used to being independent.

She was younger and she didn't sort of understand when she first migrated here what those sort of rules were.

And yes,

I wasn't sure.

You know, I was still sort of sussing her out a little bit.

So, but I would say

don't push too much.

Give a relationship time to evolve.

And

most important thing, don't be overly needy because I think that is a bit of a turn off for many people.

Yeah, that's a fabulous point.

We have talked about it in the past.

There is a huge difference between wanting someone in your life and needing that person.

And I think a lot of men sense that.

Like, if the girl is on top of them.

I'm saying men because women have this tendency, right?

To be like, where is he?

And I think a lot of guys sense that and they go away, right?

The sexiest thing for a guy to hear from the partner is, hey, I'm busy.

I've got to go out with my girlfriends.

I've got a work function on.

Maybe I can figure you in, you know, sometime next week.

How does Thursday work for you?

Super sexy, because then we know, wow, she's got a full life.

She's out there doing things.

She's a really interesting,

mature person who's going places.

Awesome.

But that being said,

I think I agree with you guys.

Nobody is too busy for someone that they don't want to lose.

Because when guys say, oh my God, I'm so busy with work and my kids,

let's face it, most of us are insanely busy.

I am probably one of the busiest people in the world that I ever met.

I work crazy insane hours.

I have 10 million projects.

I work seven days a week.

I have two dogs, blah, blah, blah.

If I meet somebody I like, Believe me, I can fit them into my schedule.

So I think when the guy tells you too many times that he's working, he's busy, he can't, that's probably a sign that he doesn't care if he's going to lose you or not, correct?

Correct.

Correct.

Yes.

So it's the greatest gift you can give to someone is the gift of time.

And as you said, you make time in your schedule.

Yeah.

Yeah, because look, everybody eats, everybody has dinner, everybody sleeps.

And of course, if you like someone, guess what?

You want to sleep with them at least once a week, twice a week, blah, blah, blah.

So how many times, if you're dating someone,

how many dates, how many months do you think you should let it go by

before you decide that this is, okay, let's give this a go, let's really date, let's be exclusive.

How patient should a guy or a girl be with the other person?

It depends on how important the other person is to you, right?

If you have a sense, wow, this guy, this girl is really something special and I can see something there, you might give them, you know, like four, five, six months.

If you're not sure and you think, hey, I just,

I'm not,

I don't really get a vibe here,

but it's an individual decision that I think everybody needs to make.

And in saying with that individuality, it does come to where each person is coming from.

You know, each of them will have their own agendas and their own baggage, own problems.

So the more things and the more stuff they have to work individually, the more, you know, time that that relationship will take to evolve.

Yeah, now, so this question takes me to another question because we were talking about it last week.

When you start dating someone, many times and a lot of girls complain about that, they don't know if the guy is only dating you, or maybe he's out there because of all this this tinder this bumble you have so many choices they don't know if the guy is out there also dating somebody else also pursuing somebody else and there's the whole issue about you know safe sex most girls don't want to date a guy that's having sex with two three girls or different dates every weekend so is it okay after a few dates to actually look at the guy and say, hey, what's going on?

Are you just dating me?

Are you dating multiple people?

What is your your opinion

I'll be asking that question after the second or the third date really

yeah yeah yeah if you're if you're interested in a monogamous serious relationship or at least the possibility of that

why wouldn't you be straightforward and straight up about that

Because that way you're sort of filtering the guys who are not going to be helpful or healthy for you in the process or serious.

So I wouldn't be shying away from asking that question.

So how do you ask it?

You go and say, hi, are you dating?

Sorry, but I need to know.

Are you dating just me?

Are you having sex with a bunch of women?

You just ask straight up.

That's right, because some guys will be like,

some women will be okay with that, of course, if it's a relationship, whatever

you're pursuing.

But if it's not, then I just say it straight up.

Are you seeing other people on the side because I'm not interested in developing a relationship with you if that's what's going on but I just prefer that you be straight up and honest about it yes love it I hope the girls are sorry sorry Tatiana what was that you broke up I couldn't hear you yeah it does help to set those expectations beforehand um just to know you know where your policy stand yeah that's super important before I let you guys go to be worked on on people that are not gonna life's too short, we're too busy, right?

Yes,

you need to approach it with seriousness and um totally and prioritize your needs and what you're what you want to rather than just accommodate to whoever you know, yeah, yeah, I agree now.

Before I let you go, because I can't believe time is going by so fast, I'm gonna have to invite you guys back because I know I'm gonna get dozens of questions for you.

The issue, and I'm sure you must have had a gazillion clients with this issue, the issue of cheating.

Do you believe in general, because I know each case is a different case, and we need to do a whole show just about that.

But the issue of cheating, do you think in general, most couples can stay together and get past that?

Or most of the time it's a deal breaker?

Most of the time, it's really hard to recover from it.

It's possible, but it takes a long time.

it takes between a couple of years and four years to really work through it wow

if it's been a committed relationship and it has been a huge betrayal of

affair and the type of affair that it has been of course but it is very possible to mend and to repair it just takes a lot of time and you need to go through grief and loss process you need to work through why the affair happened in the first place what needs weren't being met

And you also need to talk about it.

You need to talk about the cheating.

A lot of couples shy away from it because they think if I bring it up again, we're going to have a fight, or it's better to just put it under the carpet and forget that it ever happens.

It's really healthy to be able to talk about it and to seek out the help of a counselor or a therapist to be able to unpack that in a safe place.

Oh my god, yeah, I'm sure.

It's hard to recover from it, but possible with commitment.

I think for me, the biggest problem would be trusting again because to me the most important thing on the planet is that i need to trust someone a hundred percent because i feel this world is filled with liars cheaters snakes people say stuff behind your back so like for me with my partner it wouldn't be even so much the act like the physical act because I think we're humans, people make mistakes for whatever reasons.

But it would be interesting to see how do you, is it possible to rebuild trust in someone or once it breaks it's like crystal?

It's very possible.

Otherwise, we wouldn't be in this business.

It's

possible to rebuild it, but it is the most fragile of the four elements in a relationship.

So trust is super important, as you said, it's crucial to relationship.

But once it's broken, it's really hard to mend.

And so you need to walk slowly and it takes time.

It takes time.

It takes lots of open communication, lots of vulnerability.

And it's not easy.

It's hard to get there, but they're impossible.

We are really huge on hope.

I let love happen.

We say,

hey, we wouldn't be involved in this if we didn't think that you had a chance or that there was hope here.

But we also say, you know what?

It's going to take a lot of work.

Like

love equals work.

Love is not.

feelings or like chemistry.

Love is actually a lot of doing hard work in order to be in a healthy, happy relationship.

There's lots of joy in it, but there's also a lot of work.

I agree completely.

Sometimes people forget that we're out of time, but super quickly, yes or no question.

If a couple is counseling with you and you see that the problem is way too difficult to fix, or you know, it's

it's they're better off separated.

Do you tell them the truth?

Like, listen, give up, move on.

Yeah, we're honest with them yeah about look this is pretty much sometimes we use chances this is how much chances you have about making it that you can do it if they have the work the commitment and the time in the relationship they can recover from anything so there's no impossible relationship but there's relationships that will take a huge amount of effort to hold together and we very we we just give them the stats and we say no it's up to you guys do you want to invest in this or do you you know go somewhere else go

to the somewhere else you're going to probably take your second issues to the next relationship so so true

to just work on and get the lesson now so you don't take it on to the next the next um relationship amazing guys this was so interesting uh it's just such a deep full complete complicated conversation I am going to invite you back because I know I'm going to get like dozens of questions for you.

So I really hope we come back to because I would like to talk more about betrayal about cheating about why men do the things they do

so I really hope you guys come back

we'd love to be back

for sure because we started so many topics and I think each topic we can delve way deeper and I know I'm gonna get like dozens of questions so guys send us any questions you have for Tatiana and Max their relationship experts.

Where do people find you?

All right, so you can just go to

the main place to find us is called freegift.letlovehappen.org.

Free gift.

Free gift.letlovehappen.org.org.

And on Instagram, you are letlovehappen.org, correct?

I'm going to put the videos.

Let lovehappen org without a dot.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Let lovehappen.org.

I'm going to put the videos there so people find you, and then I'm gonna compile all the millions of questions I'm gonna get from everyone.

And it would be amazing to have you guys back.

Thank you so much.

Have a wonderful Saturday in Sydney.

It was such an honor, such a pleasure to have you, you guys here, and I'll see you soon.

We'll have you here whenever you want.

Just come here.

I will.

I hope I make my dream come true.

And I think I need to meet like a guy that wants to go to Australia.

That would be my dream guy because that's like on top of my list.

Otherwise, we'll find you one year.

Exactly.

If nothing works in the United States, I'll call you guys and say, hey, match me.

Thank you so much, guys.

This was so much fun.

I'll talk to you soon.

This was Cat on the Loose Friday to get your weekend started.

And I'll see you guys next Tuesday.

Please send your...

questions to Tatiana and Max because they're being super sweet in their game to coming back.

Cat on the Loose 100% organic, never edited, fat-free.

Have a great weekend, and I'll see you guys soon.