Top Dating & Relationships Coach Mat Boggs

My guest today, Matt Boggs, is the best-selling author of Project Everlasting, published by Simon & Schuster, and the founder of Brave Thinking Institute's Love and Relationship Division. As a highly sought-after relationship expert, Matt has appeared in national media such as The Today Show, CNN, Headline News, The Style Network, Oprah & Friends, ABC, and many more.
Matt's message of love and practical relationship advice has impacted more than 170 million people worldwide.

And over the past 15 years, he has coached thousands of women, helping them find the love life they desire. I hope you guys enjoy my really fun, interesting, important conversation with the super talented Matt Boggs.
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Matt, welcome to Cat on the Lose. It's such an honor having you here.

Hey, Cat. It's good to be here.

I was looking at your videos the past weekend because I know we were going to talk and you have a very impressive YouTube channel, very impressive following.

So first of all, congratulations, because obviously you're doing amazing work.

Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.
Definitely a passion for sure. Yeah, we can see that.
And I love your energy. As you know, dating, relationships, very chaotic.
I have a million questions. We're going to try to squeeze in as much as we can the 45 minutes we have with you.
Okay, are you ready? I'm ready. All right.
So one of the biggest complaints that like we get this message from people from all over the world, by the way, not just in the United States, every single day we get messages here on Cat on the Lose from men and women saying that because that's what they think, I'm going to ask you if you agree, there are so many dating apps out there. The negative of it is that there are so many players and so many liars and so many people that tell you they want to be in a relationship, but they're actually just fishing around for one night stands, you know, BS scams.
Is there any way to when you're navigating the dating world, navigate the dating apps? Is there any way to spot someone real with good intentions from all the phonies out there? Well, the answer is absolutely. And I think what's really important, the first way to begin to spot the people who are real, the people who are aligned with you, the people who are ultimately going to be the match for the person that you want to be.
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...with is to begin to focus your attention on that. There's this old saying that what we resist persists.
In other words, if we get really frustrated with the scammers and the catfishers and the people who aren't what we want, what we're actually doing is we're connecting ourselves to those people through negative energy. We're connecting ourselves to those people through the resentment, the anger, the frustration.
And what ultimately happens is because we put our attention there, we end up finding way more of those people because you're in resonance with the frustration. You're in resonance with the irritation.
And whatever you're in resonance with, you attract more of into your life. So way better is to actually begin to put our attention on the possibilities of what it is you do want.
And let's say you come across a scammer. Let's say you come across someone who's just a player, somebody who just wants to hook up and have fun.
And there's nothing wrong with people who just want to have fun in this space. It's what everyone gets to have, whatever it is that they would love to have.
But if you're looking for something more meaningful, deep and lasting, then what you do is you put your energy and your focus there while letting the other interactions wash off of you like water off a duck's back. I love that.
I love that. Yeah, then you'll attract way more of those people because that's where your energy is going.
And it's a huge, I know it may not seem easy, but here's one easy tip. Like, let me tell you what other women are also really frustrated with and other men as well as they go online and they're like, most of the people online I would never date.
And I'm like, well, that's because it represents the general population. Like if you're walking through the airport or you're walking through the mall or the county fair, 99% of those people you would never date anyway.
But you don't need to date 99% of them. You only need one.
Yes. And so the explanation is it only takes one and it can be easy.
Yeah. And so you stick to that and things become easy.
For me, I mean, at least in my dating life, and I always tell my listeners that I'm all about quality, not quantity. And I think if you're going through the dating apps, it's kind of like finding the diamond in the sand for you.
Right. So, yeah, like you said, what's the point in like shifting to the right, like 20, 100 to 200, 300 people? Very likely you don't have anything in common with 300 people.
For me, it's more like take your time and try to find those rare ones that resonate with you or you have some similar interests with and go from there. Yeah.
And even if you do swipe through 200 people, be very mindful of the story we begin to tell ourselves. because what will happen is the more people that we swipe against, the story becomes, well, there's no good people online.
Like there's just no quality people online. I'm not fine.
They're not here. And you begin to tell yourself that story.
Then what happens is we all have a part of our brain called the reticular activating system. And its job is to find evidence that aligns with our beliefs.
And so what happened is because then we tell ourselves there's no good people online, we will literally be blind to the high quality people and only see the people who aren't good quality for us. I remember getting online with one of my clients and she was telling me there's no good men online.
And I said, well, let's just log in together. So we logged in together and we pulled up her profile.
And literally on page two, I was like, what about Brian? I do these good looking, he's sexy, he's this and that. And she was like, I've never seen Brian before.
And I went, wait a minute, go over to your messages. And Brian had literally sent her a message two weeks before.
she just she just didn't pay attention she was blind to it because she was so convinced she would never find anyone great online she literally couldn't see him wow see there you go for me i will tell you i swiped like thousands to the left maybe one to the one or two because but i i look at it the I look at it like that. My, my person is there and my person is trying to find me.
I'm just really picky and I'm dating with intention and I know exactly what I want. And I think that's okay too.
Right? Yes. Can I give, can I share something that, that is not very well talked? And it's when you're swiping left, when you're swiping no on somebody, the energy that we do that with really matters, I believe.
I agree. Because again, like attracts like.
So imagine for a moment that oftentimes we're swipe no and the energy is like yuck or the energy is judgment or the energy is criticism or the energy is like not enoughness. Well, keep in mind that like attracts like.
So if we're in that state, then that's actually self-perpetuating yuck, not enoughness, right? Criticism. Instead, recognizing that here's what I believe, the feeling that we have for a partner, that feeling, that longing that we have, is there because a partner exists.
Really, it's the echo of their longing for us, that the two exist together. Knowing that every person online who wants to find love, there is that possibility for them.
Every person online who wants to have companionship, there exists that possibility for them. They might not be right for you, but there is somebody who is right for them and that they're right for their partner.
And so when you swipe left, instead of just saying, yocker, you're not enough, or any of that energy, instead say, may you find love easily. Yes.
I love that. I love that.
And so you send, it's like you send them forward with a blessing. You send them forward with love and it changes the state because so many people feel like online dating is a chore.
But if you actually say, well, I'm actually going to use this as a way to contribute positive love and energy to the world, then you've just like sent like 50 people a blessing that day. And whether or not you find your person or not, you put good energy out there and it will come back.
Oh my God. 1 million percent.
To me, everything is about energy. And I think we attract the energy that we are.
So even if somebody doesn't work for you, it's not because they're a bad person. They're just not your person.
So I love that you said that because I agree with you completely. Now, I want to ask you something that is very controversial.
I've heard all kinds of opinions about it. I'll tell you mine, but I want to know yours.
A lot of dating coaches, matchmakers, relationship experts, their opinion is that when you are single and you're out in the dating world, it's okay to start with small white lies. For example, lie about your age on the dating profile because it increases your dating poll.
You don't have to tell everything at once because it's marketing. My opinion is I don't like starting anything whatsoever with a lie, even if it's a tiny lie, because I don't like being lied to.
Even like if it's your age, your height, your financial status, whatever it is, like if I like someone, I want them to like me for me. I want to like them the way they are.
And a lot of people don't appreciate it. So I don't agree with a lot of these experts.
What is your opinion on that? Well, I believe it falls. I'm aligned with more your side of the camp.
You brought one category that I want to talk about here. Yeah.
But at the end of the day, I believe in treating people the way we want to be treated. So if you have a high value on integrity and honesty, then we want to lead with that.
There are two scenarios that we can talk about. One of them is, so let me go back and throw on a date, like how tall you are, your values, you know, all the things that are important.
Yes. Be a hundred percent integrous.
If you value honesty and integrity, there are scenarios where like online dating, let's say you're, you're, you're 51 and people are just going to rule you out because they're only searching for 40 to 49 and they would never find you where in real life, they would absolutely find you because you look like you're 42, even though you're 51. So what do you do with that? So there are ways in which you can be 100% in integrity and honest and let yourself be found.
So for example, you can adjust your birthday in the dating profile to allow yourself to be found. Instead of 51, you say 49 or whatever it is.
But then in your profile, you say specifically, like at the end, just so you know, I value honesty and integrity. I adjusted my birthday so you can find me.
My real age is 51. And I wanted to let you know and be upfront about that.
So we start off in full integrity. Yeah, I completely agree with you on that one, because I know a lot of people change their age on the profile.
But like you said, once you meet someone or even write it there, I love that idea of writing there. By the way, I'm not 49, I'm 51, whatever it is.
And I do come across a lot of guys that do that. They put like 59, 52 on their dating profile and they're in fabulous shape and they write on their profile.
By the way, I'm 60. I'm in great shape, but if exactly what you just said, I see that every day there, but at least they're coming clean from the get-go.
What I don't agree with is you meet someone and you go on a date or even the first date or second date and you continue with the small white lies.

Because like, I give you an example,

I was dating this guy last year.

I have two dogs, right?

I don't have kids.

My dogs are a huge part of my life.

And I always ask anybody if you don't like dogs.

And this guy lied to me.

He was like, I like dogs.

Sure enough, like two months into dating,

when I brought him to my house, it took me like two seconds to figure out it was a lie. You know, I was scared of dogs.
He wasn't comfortable around dogs. So it made me think like, why would you lie to keep me taking on date after date after date? Right.
If one day it comes, you're going to find out about it. And a lot of people say it happens to them all the time.
They're dating for months, one, two, three months. And then they find out that the person, like I said, small lies, not big lies, but you know, it kind of paints the beginning of the relationship, right? Well, I think it's even, I agree with you.
And as a best practice, be integrous, be honest, because what's way more important too is to get to the root of why the desire to lie. Why would this guy say that? Exactly.
Because deep, it's all lies are rooted in fear. Fear that the truth is not enough.
Fear that if they actually say the truth, that they're not going to ultimately get the life that they want or the result that they want. So this guy wants to date you.
He's afraid that if he says, look, I'm actually kind of a little bit uncomfortable around dogs. I'm open to dogs, but I'm just not a dog lover that you wouldn't want to date him and that he won't be able to find ultimately the love of his life.
Right. And so he lies, but here's the key.
The desire to lie, like that desire is you pull back the layers and go underneath it and say oh what's the belief that i have that's generating the fear that would stimulate me to lie and you actually want to shift the belief you want to change the belief because if the belief is operating and generating a state of fear we won't find love the belief needs to be generating a state of fear, we won't find love. The belief needs to be generating a state of what I call love abundance, which is that for each and every person, there is a possibility for love.
That your source of love isn't even found in another human being, but it's in source itself. And so really connecting to that idea and that belief then takes all the pressure off.
We don't have to be perfect. We don't have to say the right thing.
We don't have to get it all right. We don't have to control and manage it all because you're part of something that's actually seeking love for you.
It's conspiring for your greatest love story on your behalf. Yes.
And plus, I think that the right person for us, they will love you the way you are, right? They will love the great parts about you. They will love your imperfections.
They will love everything exactly the way you are. So I don't see the point in this like little white lies that people tell each other, you know, to look cooler or richer or this and that and that.
I think at the end of the day, for a long lasting relationship, you have to be yourself. That's right.
That's right. And it's really hard to screw up the right thing.
In other words, like when you meet the person, let's say you got salad in your teeth and you say the wrong thing or, you know, you make a mistake, spill your water, like whatever it is, you're so nervous. If the right person, that connection is going to overcome all the mistakes and the little imperfections that we have, because just to what you just said, they're going to love you for who you are.
There's going to be this connection that the two of you have that supersedes whatever mistake or imperfections that we have. You actually did a video about that a while ago that I really loved.
I think the title of the video is something like that. I'm not sure if it's exactly what I'm going to say, but you wrote the right guy for you will not get scared easily.
And then you elaborate on the video exactly what you're saying. If it's the right person for you, if they like you, if you have that click, they're going to hang're gonna hang around they're gonna want to be with you it often comes up when people say how early should i tell somebody what i want in a relationship like i don't want to scare off the guy i don't want to scare off the girl that kind of thing and i say it is really hard to scare off somebody who wants a relationship by talking about wanting a relationship yeah like you're not gonna not going to, you're not going to scare off.
And if you do that, we're not your person. Right.
Exactly. It's really easy to scare off somebody who doesn't want a relationship, but that's the whole idea is to scare off the wrong people faster so you can make room for the right people faster.
Yeah, totally. I do this thing that I guess I invented myself.
Tell me if you think it's too much, but I literally get a piece of paper and I write down a piece of paper, everything that I want in a relationship, like all my non-negotiables, everything that is really important to me. So when I meet someone and we start talking, I try to figure out if it matches, you know, what I need.
And then I start a column on the left side of that piece of paper, like everything that he agrees with and everything that is very different. For example, if he tells me, oh, I don't want to live in California, I want to retire in Idaho, right? Then I write it down on the left side because for me, geography is kind of like a deal breaker.
And then I start comparing this list to see, you know, is this a potential person that I want to be in a relationship with or there are too many deal breakers? That's an interesting perspective. I like to take a simplified approach in that I love the idea of have everything that you want listed out in a relationship, like write it all down and then narrow it down to your top five things.
Yeah. Your top five things.
And those top five become like the rudder. And then when you're going to deal with somebody, the goal is not, do I see myself with this person long-term? And I know that sounds counterintuitive because that's all what we think and we do.
We imagine marrying the person. We imagine, do we have kids with this person? How are they going to be in life together? I don't want to live in Idaho, God forbid, all of this stuff.
But the whole idea is to lower the standard of that first date to one question. Do I want to see this person one more time? Did I enjoy myself enough to see them one more time? Because here's the deal, especially on like where you live and those types of things.
If my current wife had done, had counted me out based on where I said I wanted to live on our

first date, we wouldn't be married today. Because you changed your mind?

Because I changed my mind because I fell in love with her.

Aw, that's so sweet.

I'm from Oregon. I was telling her I want to live in Oregon.
I want to be in Oregon. I'm

born and raised in Oregon. All my friends are in Oregon.
She's in Southern California.

Okay. How did you guys meet?

She was like, we'll see, you know, we'll just see how it goes. It wasn't she.
And so

I don't know. I'm born and raised in Oregon.
All my friends are in Oregon. She's in Southern California.
Okay. How did you guys meet? She was like, we'll see.
You know, we'll just see how it goes. It wasn't...
And so... So you guys were long distance when you met? Yeah, we dated nine months long distance.
Okay. All right.
And just like literally having virtual dates and me flying down and hanging out with her. And I was dating other people.
I wanted to find somebody in Oregon. So I was literally not trying to fall in love with her.
How did you guys meet? Can you tell us? What's that? How did you guys meet? Yeah, I had written my first book. It was called Project Everlasting.
And I was at a book expoo um sorry it was a wedding expo because it was a relationship book and my best friend and i co-authored this book so we're at this huge wedding expo in los angeles and um we were trying to sell books and like nobody wanted this book it was like huge like flop thinking that people brides would want this book about how to make love last. They're thinking about DJs and cakes and honeymoons, and they're not thinking about buying a book on relationships.
So really feeling discouraged around lunchtime. The first day was a two-day event.
I decided to go grab some food. As I'm walking out the booth down another row of booths, she was working another booth.
And the crazy thing is neither one of us were supposed to be there. Her friend called her last minute because he owns a wedding DJ company.
He's like, hey, my employee didn't come. Can you come and cover? So she showed up and we weren't supposed to be there.
Somebody else flaked out and the owner of the whole thing called us up and said, hey, I got a free booth if you guys want to come. So we flew down and I saw her work in this other booth and went up and did a very bad introduction.
And she was totally unimpressed with me, but I kept coming back to talk to her. And over the course of two days, she finally gave me her email address.
And then that's how we started. Obviously, it was her destiny.
It was your destiny. You guys were meant to be.
That's really sweet. I like that.
Yeah, I know people can change their mind. I guess I'm just, yeah, I'm probably like declining a million people because, yeah, they're not geographically desirable.
But I like that approach that people might change their mind. Let's take a really quick break and talk about a problem that I know most of us have, especially after super crazy long work days.
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I am completely hooked and I highly recommend them. Now, I want to talk to you about Good instinct because you also did a video about that.
And I think that's so important, especially with women, because we talk about it all the time. You meet someone and the initial feeling like it happened with me, this dude, the day I met this guy that I was dating, my gut feeling was telling me, he's not the guy for you.
Don't go. And I ignored everything.
And I kept going on date after date after date and finding out that, you know, my gut was correct. And a lot of girls send me messages every day.
Same thing. They continue dating someone despite the fact that they know in their gut, in their heart that, okay, this is not my person.
Can you talk to us about that? Why we should not ignore our initial gut instinct about someone? And I can. And Kat, just a question for you.
What was the internal story that caused you to give this guy more chances? Right. Yeah.
You know, when you, exactly, that's all my friends me to me, it was like, it happens for a lot of women like, oh, he's nice. He plans a nice date.
I'm going to give him another chance. Oh, he's so nice.
He planned another date next Friday. Okay.
I'm going to give him another chance. You know, there was always a little, oh, it's the holidays.
I don't want to break somebody's heart during the holidays because I treat people the way I want to be treated. You know, there was always a little something despite the fact that I knew, like I told you about the dog and a few other things, I was like, okay, this is really not my person.
There are a lot of red flags in this relationship. And I know a lot of women are like me.
They keep on dating the right, the wrong guy. And, but they know this is not my guy.

And what was it about this guy? Ultimately they said, he's not my guy. When you said there's a lot of red flags, were there red flags in that connection? Yeah, just he didn't care at all about my life.
Like it was all his agenda. Like when we were not together, he was not interested in my work, anything that I was doing.
If we were not together and then the holidays came around and I didn't like the way he treated me. I actually did an entire episode about that because just it's a long story, but he bought himself like this lavish gifts for Christmas.
He bought himself a Lamborghini for Christmas, all kinds of stuff. And then Christmas came around.
And by the way, I support myself. I have a very successful business.
Thank God. I don't want a man to pay my

bills, but I think like giving somebody a little something for Christmas, if you're dating

exclusively, is a nice gesture, right? A card, a gift card, anything. And he didn't give me anything

whatsoever. And then two days later

after Christmas, when he noticed that I was like a little shocked because I bought him all kinds of

nice things, he gave me a candle, a candle. And then I found out- So you showed up on Christmas

and you brought it, you got him a bunch of gifts. I got him a gift for his birthday a few days

before Christmas. And then for Christmas, I bought like sexy lingerie.
You know, I went all out and he gave me nothing, nothing, nothing, not even a card. And then two days later, he gave me a candle and cherry on the cake.
I found out from the candle store that he bought two candles. He told me the other candle was for his co-worker.
Was he pretending to be exclusive with you? He swore he was 10 million times. But regardless, I don't think you should buy the same gift for the girl you're dating and sleeping with and the same gift for your co-worker I don't know if you agree with me or not but you know between not liking I wish you guys see Matt's face because he's laughing like that that's hilarious I'm laughing I'm just laughing because yeah I know regarding about degree of intention like how much energy am I going to put into this relationship? Exactly.
Like he was putting zero. So I was like, you know what? I wish you the very best.
I'm like you. I was happy for people like go, go do your thing.
Like we're not for each other. Yeah.
So it's so easy to really date potential. right like here's a guy who had all kinds of great qualities super fun when you're with him yeah and yet and what it sounds like is his he could have been great if he had invested in the connection yeah simply at the level you were investing and wanting that if he put the attention there if he called he called you, if he was thoughtful, if he followed up, if he gave the gifts, he would have been the thing that you were wanting.
Exactly. There's this idea in us.
Every one of us is so easy to operate with this idea that says, down the road, it's going to get better. Down the road.
If I just keep dating this person, they're going to start investing more. If I just give enough in this relationship, they're going to, once they fall in love or once they fully commit or worse yet, once we get married, then things are going to change.
And to recognize that we are dating the person, not the potential. And that when we start dating potential, it's, it's a recipe for disaster.
I agree. And so really the key is this, is to get out of our heads.
See, the problem is the head wants to go to T-charts and pros and cons and how good is it and how not good is it and all of that. But you had spoke, Kat, about gut feeling.
You said that word like three or four times. Yeah.
Most people don't even know your gut literally has neural connections, four to 500,000 neural connections and a direct line to your brain. And so your body will know things before your head will.
And so super important to be in touch with our body. And here's what we want to notice when you're on a date with somebody and you're both on the date.
And then when you leave, do you feel this sense of expansion? Do you feel a positive energy expanding? Do you feel lightness? Other words are like, does it feel life giving to you or does it feel constrictive? Does it feel heavy? Does it feel not life giving in other words? And so it's not enough just on the date. He could have been great on the date, but if you notice, Chad, it was in between the dates.
Him not giving the gifts, him not calling, him not falling through. Those are the things that you want to notice around, wow, this really doesn't feel good, and something's telling me that this is off.
And at those moments, that's when you want to bring it up and have a honest conversation. And I think for everybody out there, right, if you meet someone and it doesn't feel right, if they're not fulfilling your needs, I think that's our gut telling us to move on.
Yes. A hundred percent.
A hundred percent. And I always like to do it in a way that isn't this this open-ended in other words you bring it up to the person and these are often very difficult conversations and people haven't really been trained in how to have these but it's a direct conversation where you say hey here's what i'm noticing here's my experience right and what i would love is this other experience how does that that connect to you? Are you in for that or not? And let's just have an open conversation about this because it's okay if it's a no, but I want to know now so that we can create something different.
It's communication, right? If you don't talk to the person and you don't tell them what you need and what is important for you, maybe you're not going to get it or maybe they're not going to guess. Right.
They won't guess. They will have no idea.
And for a lot of people, it's really difficult to communicate, especially in a new relationship. Do you agree? Like people that are dating, they're embarrassed, like telling each other a lot of things.
Or I don't know if it's embarrassment or I don't know what it is, but I hear that all the time. Like, Oh, I don't know how to tell the person what I need.
I don't know how to tell the person what's important to me. Am I talking too much? I hear that all the time.
Yes. And this is where we rest on the belief.
It's really hard to screw up the right thing. So if you feel like you're talking too much, maybe notice that and ask the other person a question, try to balance it out.
But in no way, shape or form, do we water down our needs or wants or vision. In fact, my best practice is on the very first date, ask the person what their vision is for their love life.
What is it that they want to see? What do they see for themselves? What do they want to create and see if your vision is alive? That's going to save a huge amount of time with somebody who we're afraid to ask them what they want because we feel like we're being too clingy. And here's the nuance.
You ask somebody their vision and then maybe they'll ask you, well, what do you want in your love life? Speak what you want in your love life with the understanding that this other person isn't that person yet. In other words, saying you might like them, you might be vibing with them, but they have a lot of work to do before they become that version.
And it creates this beautiful tension of like, here's the goal, here's what I'm creating. And you're vibing with this person, but you're not quite sure if they're your person yet because it takes a really special person to win your heart.
Yeah, I agree. And I think when you know everything just clicks.
I, for me, at least that's what I learned in my journey. When somebody is not right for you, there is no try to force it.
And this is why I always tell girls that that's another post that you did that I completely agree, like chasing someone, Or if you're sitting by the phone, like, is he going to call me? Is he going to make plans with me? Is he, you know, if you're doing all of these things and wondering or having to text them too much, to me, I never do that because it's like, okay, there is no point in chasing anybody. I think if you chase, they're going to run away from you.
What's yours is going to come to find you. Do you agree? I totally agree.
When in nature, when you begin to chase something, you have, it's push away energy versus draw in energy. There's this great phrase that I love where people would often say, you know, you'll find love when you're not looking for it.
And that would always piss me off, though, because I was the kind of person that I wanted love. I wanted to find my part of person like I want love.
And so it's not like I'm not going to look for it. And we all we all know we have friends and family who they were looking for love and they found love.
So that can't be you'll find it when you're not looking for it. And it finally dawned on me one day, it's not that you'll find it when you're not looking, it's you'll find it when you're not lacking.
In other words, when we feel like we're lacking love, when we're lacking attention, we're lacking, we're coming from this place of scarcity, which then creates this chase energy, we push love away. But when we come from a having energy, like meaning if this guy comes into your life, great, it's a plus on top of an already full, abundant, beautiful life.
That's the most attractive state we can be in, both in terms of his attraction for you, but just attracting amazing people. Yeah.
It's interesting that you said that because that's the next point I wanted to talk to you about. I think a lot of people, they think that finding the right person for them is what's going to make them happy.
Like, for example, I have single friends. They're like, oh, I need to find my guy.
I need to find my prince. You know, he's going to give me this life.
He's going to do this for me. He's going to do that for me.
And guys too, they're like, oh, I need to find my person. In my opinion, we need to be very happy with ourselves, very happy with our lives before you find the right relationship for you.
In other words, if you expect someone to make you happy because you are so unhappy in your own life, I don't think that works. I think happiness starts with us.
I don't think somebody can come into your life and say, hi, Catherine. Okay, you hate your life.
I'm going to make your life fabulous for you. I don't think it works that way.
I think we need to be super content and create a universe that makes us happy. And then somebody just comes and adds to it.
So I always tell these girls, like, if you think a guy's going to come and like swipe you off of your feet and make you happy, if you're miserable on your own, I don't think that works. Do you agree with me? Well, here's where I do agree with you.
And here's where it gets muddy is because what will happen is people who are unhappy and we place, we give the ability of our happiness in the hands of somebody else. They're going to make me happy because I'm lonely and I'm unhappy and I want my person.
What will occur is then narcissists and manipulators feed on that energy and they'll come in and for a chapter, it will be really, really good. And it will be like this amazing fairy tale until the tide turns and then they begin really self-serving themselves.
And it'll be manipulation and it will be gaslighting and it will be all kinds of stuff. And then the relationship, their state of being comes back to unhappy again.
And because remember, like attracts like. So you cannot create joy and happiness from this place of unhappiness and loneliness.
I often say it this way, you will find the love of your life on the path of living a life you love. I love that.
So for example, here's an exercise, write down 50 things. I call it the fantastic 50.
50 things that you would love to do in this life. Experiences you would love to have.
Maybe there's a restaurant you want to go to. Maybe you want to go skydiving.
Maybe you want to learn how to's a restaurant you want to go to maybe you want to go skydiving maybe you want to learn how to paint maybe you want to go do whatever right 50 things that you would love to do and then out of the 50 things begin circling those that uh you have the the the ability to do sooner rather than later like right now and then begin to do those things and watch what happens there was a woman one of my clients we were doing this exercise her name is donna and she was like i want to do five rhythms like she goes he had her whole list i was like add that list what would you love to do first and she was like i would love to dance there's this five rhythms dance uh class that i want to take i haven't been dancing in years and so she went to five took the dance class, and then posted on her online profile that she does five rhythms. And that night, got a guy reach out.
They're like, you do five rhythms. I do five rhythms.
I love that. They met, fell in love, and now their love story is off and running.
But it took her activating something that she loved doing before the two of them could find each other. Yes.
No, listen, I'm leaving proof of it because you probably don't know my story, but I started Cat on the Loose after I left a horrible, very abusive marriage. I was married for 15 years.
Horrible, horrible. I couldn't work.
I couldn't do anything I wanted. My husband was super controlling, super abusive.
And once I got out of that, I was like, you know what?

I'm going to do everything that I love to do.

I'm going to rebuild my business.

I'm going to go back to acting.

I'm going to start the podcast.

And I live like the best life.

And my life is so full.

It's so fulfilling.

I attract the most amazing people.

I still haven't found the perfect partner for me,

but I'm constantly attracting people that want to take me out, that want to date me, that want to be my friends, my clients, because I think they feel my energy. Like I'm so happy.
I think I don't need the part. I think it's the difference between needing a partner and wanting a partner, right? Well said.
I love that. Exactly.
Exactly. You don't need it from this place if I have to.
You want it from this place. I would love that.
Yes. So before we run out of time, do you have any suggestions? Because I know I think that the dating app, they are a necessary evil.
If you want to meet someone, you might meet someone that you otherwise would never cross paths with. I use them every now and again.
But I know there are a lot of people that don't want to be on dating apps. I have a lot of friends like that.
I get messages from girls. Do you have any suggestions? You just said one of your clients did something that she wanted to do.
Any extra suggestions, like good ways that people can meet other potential matches organically? Yes. And let me just say about the dating app.
So real quick, one mindset shift, because a lot of my clients don't want to do dating apps either. And it's this degree of openness.
Like I get it with a woman who's been on dating apps and she's burned out. I'm not talking about her because she's already been open and creating opportunities on dating apps.
But those of us out there who are just like, I don't want to do it for our own reasons. I was one of those.
It took me actually getting on a dating app to find my wife, not on a dating app. And what happens is when we get on a dating app, what we're doing is we're basically sending a signal out to life saying, I'm open.
I'm available. I'm willing to receive this relationship now.
And the thought is that your person, the person who's looking for you, that person doesn't want to find you at a bar. That person doesn't really believe they're going to meet you at the grocery store or at a Starbucks.
They're like, yeah, that would be nice. But they're convincing themselves right now, you know what? You're probably on a dating app.
And so even though they don't want to get on it either, they're getting themselves on a dating app. And so the thought, here's the mental shift.
The mental shift is for those who don't want to do it or in full resistance, the shift is do it for your partner because they're most likely on a dating app also trying to find you. That creates this openness, but you don't leave it to there.
You don't leave it just to online dating apps. There's a few other things you can do.
Number one is you invoke what are called love ambassadors. And I love this.
This is where you tell your closest friends or your family, people you know who have your back that are going to judge you, but are going to champion you, support you. And you tell them, you say, hey, I am ready now for the love of my life.
And so I'll share with you five things. You give them your top five.
You say, these are the five things I'm looking for. If you meet somebody or know somebody who's like this, would you be willing to introduce us? And they become love ambassadors.
Second thing you do is you start creating what's called social momentum, where you're out and about and you start interacting just friendly. We're not talking about flirting with people that you're not attracted to, but just friendly interactions with everyone that you're interacting with in your daily life.
So instead of being nose down, face down in the phone, your eyes up, heart open, and you're connecting with a checkout person at Starbucks. You're connecting with a grocery clerk.
You're connecting with the bank. And you're just, and there's little extra interactions that are happening because synchronicity is at work trying to align you with your person.
And you just never know what's going to happen. One of my clients, her name is Julie Roberts.
She was 69 years old and wanted a smart man who was a mathematician, like super smart, who was an environmentalist and had all these things. And part of her was like, this guy doesn't exist.
And I was challenging her. And I was like, sure, this guy can exist.
You can't challenge the universe. I mean, you can, but in the field of infinite possibilities, what would you love? What would you really love, Julianne? And she was like, you know what? What I really love is a man in a kilt.
And so she did the love ambassador thing and kept open, kept all the, with social all of this. A month later, a friend called her back and said, I think I have someone for you to meet.
This guy named Ian, who was a scientist, super smart, environmentalist. The two of them was from her hometown in Nanaimo, Canada, and she didn't want to move.
He always wanted to move back. So all these things aligned.
They dated, fell in love. He proposed.
And on their wedding day, she turns the corner to go down the aisle and she sees him standing at the end of the aisle and he's wearing a kilt. Aw, that's so sweet.
She had no idea he was Scottish. But she was like, Matt, I almost fainted in that moment because we hadn't even talked about that yet.
Like totally forgot about it. And I remember telling you I want a man in a kilt because I think they're so sexy.
And so they ended up finding the love of their life together. But it took that willingness to be open and invoked love ambassadors, create social momentum, and being willing to be open online that really created the magic.

Fantastic advice.

I think, like you said, the key is be open to love, right?

I always say that never give up on finding love and the right person for you will find you back.

I think that's the message here.

Thank you so much.

You're amazing.

Guys, I'm attaching his Instagram link to this audio episode so you can go follow his work connect with him amazing videos super inspirational and if you are listening to the audio episode make sure you go to our youtube channel cat on the loose show so you can see his work and i'm connecting his youtube with mine because he has a gigantic youtube following, very well deserved because you are fantastic at what you do. It's an honor having you.
I know we're going to have a million questions for you, so I'll definitely invite you back for another episode. Thank you, Kat.
It's my pleasure. Thank you so much, Matt.
And guys, never give up on love. I'll see you soon.
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