FOR THE LOVE OF SEX WITH DR TAMMY NELSON PHD

My guest today, Dr. Tammy Nelson, PhD, is a sex and relationship expert, a TEDx Talker international speaker, an author and licensed psychotherapist with almost 30 years of experience working with individuals and couples.
In private practice, she focuses on helping people of all ages, orientations, and genders to find love, healing, and passion. Tammy is also the director of the Integrative Sex Therapy Institute and has been a licensed sex therapist in practice for over 30 years.
She teaches in several universities and is the host of her own

podcast, The Trouble with Sex. She wrote several books about the subject.
She consults with

institutes, think tanks, corporations, and she's been featured on several, several publications,

including the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, Glamour Magazine, Cosmopolitan, MSNBC, Men's Health, Women's Daily, etc, etc, etc. I mean, her curriculum goes on and on and on.
Very few people are as knowledgeable about the subject as she is. So I really hope you guys enjoy my conversation with Tammy.
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Tammy Nelson, thank you so much for being on Cat on the Loose. It's such an honor to have you.
And you are an incredible, strong woman. And you're being such a good trooper because we're doing this virtually because I just found out you have COVID.
Yeah, thank you for having me. And I'm sorry, I'm not sounding as clear as I normally would, but I appreciate you being flexible.
I am very honored to have you, and I appreciate you not even canceling on us, because I think most people would cancel would be in bed recovering. There's no time to be in bed.
I have too much to do. Oh, my God.
So, guys, if you're out there, yes, COVID is still around, so we still got to be safe, right, Dr. Tammy? Yes, absolutely.
yes absolutely take care of yourself I know I'm very grateful that you're doing this because every time I say we're gonna do an episode about sex as you probably know since you're one of the top experts in the subject we get dozens and dozens and dozens of questions it's still a huge taboo. It's still a big deal.
A lot of people are very ashamed when it comes to talking about sex. Is it your perception as well after all these 30 plus years in your profession? Well, you know, I've spoken all over the world and done couples workshops.

I just got back from doing a retreat in the desert with couples. I've spoken in all different countries to all different therapists.
And I found that people speak the least about sex to the person they're actually having sex with. It doesn't matter where they live.
Isn't that bizarre? And I agree. It's funny because I noticed that I'm not an expert and I'm not a doctor, but I've been doing the podcast for three and a half, almost four years.
And I do get messages from people from all over the world. And of course, I've been in relationships and I agree with you.
I noticed even with my partners, most people have huge difficulty communicating with their own partners.

They're very embarrassed when it comes to talking about sex and their desires and if they're fulfilled or not fulfilled and their fantasies.

Women have a lot of issues when it comes to talking about pleasure and if they're having orgasms or not. Why do you think that is? Well, I think we've been taught from an early age that talking about sex is private and it should be hidden.
And, you know, we're not even taught how to talk about our body parts, you know, even as adults, like even on Oprah, Oprah calls her vagina a vajayjay, the biggest person in the world. And so we're not even allowed to talk about our own bodies.
And so there's a, you know, a hush hush idea about sex that is really based in shame and guilt. Yeah, I know.
And it's sad to me,

and you're so right, because even on social media, right, if we talk about sex openly, they flag the account, they associate sex with something dirty, with pornography, with something illegal so even for us to do our job as communicators, it's a tough road because if we speak freely about it, they think you're doing something wrong. And it blows my mind because to me, it's one of the most important conversations that we should be having.
I think it's one of the most important parts of an

adult fulfilling relationship. And how do we break the stigma? How do we make these conversations more and more normal? Is there a way to do that? Well, you know, a lot of conversations about sex are based in shame about pleasure.

So, you know, the idea of pleasure in our society is something that we have to work for. You know, you can work hard all week and then have pleasure on the weekends and you should binge on it and come back hung over and miserable and broke and then get back to the real work.
So I think, you know, in the society and culture that we're in, this idea of pleasure is something that, first of all, you have to earn. Second of all, only some people deserve it.
And third, you should feel guilty about it. And so maybe we could change the conversation from sex to pleasure and start talking about how pleasure is our birthright especially for women you know women have been sort of shunned around pleasure since you know eve ate the apple and she was naked by the way and there's so much punishment for us having any kind of pleasure and you know if women are seen to find pleasure in sexual relationships, then they're shamed.
And, you know, we can only be either good girls or bad girls. And the idea of expressing ourselves as full people who have all of those parts inside of us would take a lot of acceptance.
Yeah, it it's really tough i think it's especially tough for women because men and it's funny to me this day and age right because a guy if a guy goes out there and dates multiple women and has sex with multiple women he will brag to his friends right it's no big deal at all, if a single woman goes out there and has casual sex and talks about it, or even if she doesn't have casual sex, like in my case, I don't even have casual sex. But just the fact that I do a sex podcast, I am labeled.
Most men, even before they date me, they think, oh my God, she's going out every night every night she's promiscuous she's dating all kinds of men she's having sex with all kinds of men they label you like a whore and to me it's it's really funny because we would hope that this day and age with all this information you know it would be a little different but it isn't it's still such huge stigma when it comes to everything related to sex. Well, you are cat on the loose, so.
I know, but like I said, if it was a guy, like if it was a boy on the loose, everybody would be cheering him on, like, oh, how many girls? No, no, no, go for it. Yeah, go.
But if it's a, and I always say, I didn't say I'm cat on the loose banging guys every night. Maybe I'm cat on the loose seeking the love of my life.
I'm on the loose seeking the perfect relationship of my life. But everybody immediately thinks she's like this crazy woman, boy hungry.
And there is a double standard for how men can have sex and how women can have sex. Yeah so there's about the same amount of women as there are men on Ashley Madison.
Ashley Madison is the website. Yeah.
People can go on to find alternative partners and that says a lot lot about women. And regardless of how people talk about them, women are having as much sex as men and as many affairs and as many open relationships.
And so regardless of how people look at women, the reality is women are really the gatekeepers of sex now. They are the ones that say they're going to have sex or not have sex.
And part of that is because marriage today has become so optional. You know, we don't need to get married to have sex.
We don't need to get married to have children. We don't need to get married to get a mortgage or pass down our property.
We don't need to get married to get health insurance or life insurance. We really don't need to get married.
So it's optional. That is so true.
Yeah. But we have more choices, right? We can choose.
So let's rewind a little bit because I did listen to your TED Talk, which I thought it was fantastic. And you delve into all of those things.
So I definitely want to talk about that because it was very very interesting to me you talk about the new monogamy which is what i think you were just starting to explain back then there were all these reasons why women needed to get married now all of that is out of our plate you are absolutely right we don We don't need all of that anymore. But then you mentioned something really interesting.
Yeah, two things let's talk about. I definitely want to talk about the Ashley Madison experiment you did.
But before we delve into that, you talk about the new monogamy and you mentioned and you said something and please correct me because I didn't memorize everything, but I paid a lot of attention because I thought it was very interesting.

You mentioned that the most difficult part of being monogamous can be the sexual monogamy. And I agree with you.
Can you can you explain and elaborate on that for people that don't know your work and didn't listen to your TED talk? well there's actually actually, I don't know if this is in the TED talk, but there's actually studies that say that monogamy gets boring for women much sooner than it does for men. Monogamy really doesn't work for women.
And that we will want variety and get stuck much earlier than men will. Men will put up with it as long as they can have sex.
Really? We want to have varied partnerships and we won't put up with boring sex like men. But isn't it usually men that cheat first? Women cheat first.
Really? Women cheat first they're just better at hiding it. Really? Historically, so much worse punishment for women for cheating.
And there still is. I mean, there's, you know, worse than shame, it can be dangerous for women to cheat.
So women have been taught to hide it and cover it up. And men, like you said before, you know, men brag about it.
They brag about their multiple partners. And so, you know, actually men will overemphasize their multiple partners, even if it's not true.
And women will will underemphasize and say, no, that's not true. Why do you think is the number one? I honestly didn't know that.
I'm actually surprised because I thought men cheat way more than women do. Not statistically.
Wow. I'm super surprised about that.
But because it's just me, I never cheated because it's just not in my nature because I'm the opposite. What turns me on being with someone is feeling that I belong with a person.
So the minute I cheat, to me, that relationship is over because the magic, quote unquote, is broken. I was in a miserable marriage for 14 and a half years.
I don't know if you heard about my story, but I put a lot out there because I was very abused by my husband. He was an alcoholic and the more money he made, the more he drank and he was very verbally abusive.
He physically assaulted me sometimes. It took me a very long time to get out of the marriage.
But during all that time, I never cheated on him because I felt, you know, oh my God, my loyalties to him. But we were almost in an almost sexless marriage.
Now looking back, I'm thinking like, how the hell did you manage, right? But I know there are so many women like me that they take years and years and years to even master the courage to get out of a miserable relationship with very little to no sex so to think and and i know a lot of women have horrible sex lives but don't have the courage to go and cheat because like you said because the stigma and the consequences are so huge yeah so that so, you know, it can be really, really, really tough and complicated if you're a woman. As to like if you're a man, I know a lot of friends and I've heard I get messages from men all over the world that are in miserable marriages, but because of financial situations or the kids or whatever it is, it's easier for them.
they just go and cheat and have affairs because it's easier for them to hide or even if somebody finds out the consequences are not as bad as as for the woman so I see that a lot more well you're getting a lot of uh letters from people that are being pretty honest with you opposite. I get, you know, a lot of clients and a lot of couples that come in to try to repair from an affair.
And it's not just men that are cheating. It's all of them.
No, of course. I mean, you're you're a doctor.
So I'm sure like when they seek your help, they feel a lot more comfortable talking to a doctor. To me, it's more like generalized situations you know so it's a little more complicated but what do you think is the number one reason that drives people to cheat um i was gonna say maybe they're trying to hit on you maybe that's why they're writing i don't think so i don't know i don't think so i doubt it i doubt very much i don't doubt it you're beautiful oh thank you i appreciate that um the number one reason that people cheat i mean it's really it it's not what you think it is like a lot of people think it's the cliche that men cheat for sex and women cheat for emotions and it actually isn't necessarily true that um men actually want relationships they want to feel like they're connected to someone they want attention they want to feel like they matter and women actually do want to have good sex they don't want to settle they want to excitement.
They don't want to have the burden of somebody else's problems. And they don't necessarily want to leave their marriage.
But they don't want the obligation of being someone's wife. So a lot of times women cheat for sex and men cheat for emotion.
Wow, that's very interesting. I mean, I'm like so surprised because I never would have talked.
Like I talk to my girlfriends and we always think like guys cheat because they're pigs because they want to have a lot of sex because they want variety. That's not the case.
I can't generalize to all men that all men are not like that. And some people, whether they're men or women, are going to cheat for sex.
And the reality is a lot of people cheat because they want out of their relationship. They just don't know how to do it.
I call those like the can opener relationships, right? So it's sort of like they swing from branch to branch, kind of trying to test it out. Like, would I be able to have another partner or what's it like to be with someone else?

And those those affairs you really can't recover from.

You know, some people cheat to get out of their marriage.

And it's kind of a passive aggressive way to break up.

It like forces their partner to break up with them. Yeah.
Oh, and I hear a lot of those stories for sure. And they usually never end well, right? Well, I think it's like a way of just dropping off your partner on the way out the door, you know, like they come to therapy and say, I had an affair, but I really don't want, I don't feel bad and I don't want to get back together.
So I don't think you can recover from those affairs. But I think most people can, if they really want to, they can create a new monogamy, a new marriage going forward after an affair.
I don't think it has to be the end of your relationship, but I think it really depends. It depends on why you had the affair.
It depends on how you're feeling about your current marriage. I mean, I've seen a lot of affairs that can be a wake-up call, where people go, oh my god, where were we going, and what was happening, and we have to really look at what we want, and you can repair and even be better off after that.
Yeah, so that's a good question. Let's say a couple listening to us, and that's really tough, right? After many years,

a lot of couples, doesn't matter how much you love each other, it's hard to keep the flame

alive, right? Keep it going. How do you do that? Any tips, any ideas, whether or not they cheated on each other or maybe like you're thinking about cheating or a lot of people complain like, you we, we don't have sex as often as we did, used to be great.
It's not great anymore. Some people had kids, whatever the reasons are.
And, you know, they get frustrated. Any ideas how to, you know, spice it up again, make sex hot and heavy again after a while? I think it goes back to what you were saying in the beginning.
Like, first of all, your sex, three things. First of all, your sex is not going to change unless you talk about it.
It's never going to happen unless you bring it up. And so learning to talk to each other about what you want and what you need to be different is number one number two it's not going to change if you'd

complain about it so the secret of the universe is you always get more of what you appreciate so you start off with communicating about what has worked even if it's something in the way past share with each other you know i really appreciated the way we used to have sex in the shower 20 years ago.

That was really fun.

I would like more of that.

So talk about anything that's worked that you liked in the past that you could do more of. That's a way to expand on things.
And then you can talk about, you know, number three, which is things you want to try. I wouldn't lead with your fantasies because it can be kind of threatening to say you know I'd really like to shake things up and get adventurous and do this or that because then your partner is going to feel like well where'd you learn that like an affair or on porn or how come you don't like what we do like if you lead with appreciation your brain hears what your partner is saying in the grown up part of your brain, like your prefrontal cortex.
It doesn't go into that fight or flight like, oh, my God, I'm in trouble or they don't like me or something's wrong. So it's important the way you talk about it.
You know, a good a good way to start the conversation might be, oh, I listen to this podcast and I listen to Cat on the Loose. And this is what they told me we should say to spice things up.
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I love that idea. Now, speaking of fantasies, because that's one conversation that I have over and over and over on the podcast and you know i meet a lot of of course a lot of men on you know dating app many of them that i don't even date but i talk to tons and tons of men on dating apps and friends and a lot of them they say that they left the marriages because the sex life dwindled or almost died and they got super frustrated.
Guys in their 50s and 60s and they want to start a new phase in life. Same for women, men and women.
But a lot of guys complain, you know, that the wives, whatever, got busy doing something else, taking care of the kids, let it go and didn't provide them with great sex anymore. anymore and they want to have great sex and they have all these fantasies and ideas that they want to do but they are too ashamed of like like we were saying of communicating it with a new partner i think it's hilarious how people are embarrassed to tell each other what they want to do like they blush like teenagers they're super're super ashamed about talking about it.
I guess the United States, right, is a culture. Like you said, we are raised like we don't even say the word vagina, like you were saying.
So they always ask that. How do I tell my partner that I want to do something? Because most women are like, oh, my God, do you really want to do this? Like their reaction usually is a reaction of like shock or a negative reaction in general.
Do you have an idea how to introduce fantasies into a new relationship that's not going to scare the partner? well, I think it depends on the fantasy. And I think if you said it in a way that was sexy and integrated into the relationship, your partner's not going to go, oh, my God, I can't believe you said that.
The assumption that women don't want to hear your fantasies is an interesting one. I think that has more to do with the idea that the couple is not having good sex to begin with.
You know, it's not pathological to not want to have bad sex. If you're not having good sex and the person doesn't want to have sex with you, it's not their fault.
You know, if it's boring, why do you want to go to the party? It's boring. So it's not their fault.
It's not like there's something wrong with them, that they won't act out your fantasy or they won't have sex with you. It's actually really smart to not want to have the same boring sex over and over again.

So it's not the goal is not to convince the other person to act out your fantasy. The goal is to make it really exciting for them and really sexy and find out what they want, what's going to turn them on so that they want to come to the party and they're going to have a good time.
Right. So if a couple has a low sex or a sexless relationship it's either one of three things it's it's the relationship you know it's hard to climb over the resentment in the middle of the bed and you know if you're not liking each other you're not going to want to have sex number two it could be something anatomical you know it could be hormones i mean right after you have a kid nobody wants to have sex.
Number two, it could be something anatomical, you know, it could be hormones. I

mean, right after you have a kid, nobody wants to have sex, you're tired. It could be medication,

it could be, you know, sexual dysfunction, if you can't get an erection, you're going to avoid

having sex. It could be, you know, something physical.
Or number three, it could be something

to do with pleasure that it's not pleasurable. If you're not having an orgasm or, you know, it's boring and doing the same thing over and over, that can be fixed.
You know, you can learn how to do that. And the way that you learn is to talk about it.
And you both have to talk about what you like and what you want and maybe what you don't like even. I love that I think at least to me communication is key and nowadays I always insist on that with whoever I'm dating and if the person is uncomfortable I'm really like I'm sorry because I think if you don't communicate that's where you start having problems in any area right we're obviously today we're talking about sex but if you don't tell your partner what you like and what you don't like and what you're comfortable or you're uncomfortable with they're not going to read your mind and I think that's where so many couples get in trouble because they're too embarrassed too ashamed of talking about it do you agree yeah I really think that this idea of mind reading is interesting that, you know, we think if our partner loved us, they would just know what we need.
They would know they should bring us flowers on Friday, and they should be purple, and they should be at the office, and everyone should see them. But if we have to tell them, then it doesn't count, right? And it's the same with sex.
Like, if you really loved me, you would know exactly what I need and how to give me an orgasm and what I like and when I like it. And when I don't feel like it, you would know why.
And, you know, if I feel bloated or tired and I don't feel like it, then you won't take it personally. Like you should just read all that in my mind.
It doesn't work like that, right? It doesn't work like that. And it's not fair.
You know, if you want a certain kind of sex or you want sex a certain kind of way, if you tell your partner, at least you have a 50-50 chance of getting it. But if you don't tell them and they don't do it that way, it's not their fault.
They can't reach your mind.

I agree.

Tell them.

Speak up, people.

I completely agree.

You said something on your TED Talk that I loved. I could not agree with you more.
And I say that all the time. But I want people to listen from an expert because I'm not an expert at all.
You said we should assume that we're going to remain sexual beings until way late in our lives, way past our 50s, way past our 60s. And this is why I'm emphasizing the age because I meet so many people.
And again, I get messages from people all over the world. And I literally meet men and women, women in their late thirties.
I'm not kidding you. Men in their early fifties, men in their late 50s.
They're like, oh, I'm old. Oh, sex is never going to be the same.
I'm like, what are you people talking about? Like, it drives me crazy out of my mind. They put an expiration date on having great sex lives.
And I think that it should get better and better and better because you know your body better. You know what you like better.
You're not like in your 20s and you're uncomfortable and you're ashamed and she's shaking her head yes guys so yeah I think I have a point so and now like I said I have of course I've been through my crappy marriage blah blah but now whenever I have a partner and I have sex with my partner I know what I like and I feel great and I know I'm hot and I know how to come and how to make him come and I feel amazing in bed so when I hear 50 year old men 55 year old men telling me oh you know I don't know maybe once a week maybe twice a week and I have 30 something year old girlfriends telling me that they don't remember the last time they had an orgasm,

it worries me. So when you said that in your title, I'm like, oh my God, can you please say it again and elaborate on that for us, doctor? Yeah, I'm really worried about those women who aren't having orgasms because that says that they're either faking it or they're just having sex without an orgasm as if that's okay and that says that they're probably not having any clitoral stimulation which if you're a guy can feel like you're just having stimulation of your scrotum but never touching your penis like that would be nice, but eventually you get bored.
So, you know, if you're a guy, you got to know that's where all the nerve endings are. And that's where the good stuff is.
So for women, you know, again, you can't assume that your partner is going to read your mind. They may not understand your anatomy and what you need.
You're responsible for your own orgasm. So don't settle ladies.
Don't let that happen. Don't fake it.
You know, 80% of women will fake an orgasm just because they feel bad for their partner. That's just unacceptable.
So if that's all the takeaway is from today's show, then that's great. Don't fake an orgasm.
Don't fake it. Tell them or figure out how to make it happen.
Right. Now, how about these guys? Like, do you get patients? Do you meet these dudes like in their 50s and early 60s that lost their libido or lost their sexual desire or not having regular sex? Think they're past their prime? I think we have this image of what sex should be that we think if we're not having sex like we did when we were 19, then there's something wrong.
So sex is very developmental. You go through different developmental stages.
And actually, you know, sex does not fall off a cliff just because you're in menopause or post-menopause. Actually, for women, sex can get better after menopause.
You can become multi-orgasmic for the first time in your life after menopause. There's no PMS, there's no bleeding, there's no pain.
And many women have much better sex in their 60s than they've ever had before. And the problem for men sometimes is that they may not get an erection like they did when they were younger.
They may not be able to have as many erections close together. So they feel like, oh, I may not be, you know, the guy with the sexual prowess that I was.
But that's not what women or partners are looking for. They're not looking for you to stay hard for 24 hours or whatever.
They're looking for a partner who's engaged and present. And both of you who are seeking pleasure together, that's what makes good sex.
So I think that when men think, oh, I'm getting older and I'm not having good sex, it may be one, you're tired. Two, you're thinking you should have sex like a 19 year old.
And three, you're not appreciating that this is a new developmental phase for you and you can have great sex. It just might not be like you did when you were younger.
I completely agree. And I say that, and I know it's controversial because I said it a few times on the podcast and I get so much backlash but I'm gonna say it all the time I think if you are not trying to have a more fulfilling sex life in your 40s in your 50s whatever it is I think you're missing out a big amazing fun part of your adult life and I and when I say that there is always the people like, oh, you don't know me.
Oh my God, you're such a pervert. I'm like, I'm sorry.
I think it's, people take too much medication in this country. And I go back to social media, right? We can buy prescription for antidepressants, the ozampic, you can buy, like you can be heavily sedated.
But when we talk about having orgasms, which you tell me if I'm wrong, but it's one of the most powerful, natural, great chemicals for our brain, right? When we talk about that, it's wrong. But I think it's one of the best things that we can do for ourselves.
And I think these people that are like decided that they're past their sex prime in their 50s and 60s, they're really missing out. We can have good sex well into our 80s, sometimes even in our 90s, you know, with joint replacements and Viagra, Levitra, Cialis, all of that.
People are expecting to have sex well into their 80s. And, you know, we're in better shape than we ever have been before, except for COVID.
Most of us are pretty damn healthy. You know, we eat better than we ever have.
Like people are focused on their health, not like our parents or our grandparents. You know, our parents and our grandparents would get to 60 and they'd be like, okay, well, I've had a good run.
But that's not how we are today. We're expected to live much longer than we ever have before and stay younger.
People play sports, they play tennis, they go walking, they swim until, you know, they're in their 90s. So there's no reason you can't have sex until you're 90s.
Oh, my God. Amen.
And I hope you guys are listening. And if you're not having great sex, you know, for the love of God, seek help.
Before we run out of time, I want to talk about something that is also very controversial. But I think it's important to talk about for a second, open relationships.
And I know you've talked about it and I know you've written about it. Can you give me your take on that? What's your opinion? It can work for some people, right?

you know i think we're in a different time i think we're in a time of like a revolution of relationships because 200 years ago marriage was really about keeping women at home to guarantee

that your children were your children and you could pass down your sheep your possessions to the right offspring and today we don't do that it doesn't matter because women can have their own property and pass down their own possessions so marriage is much much different than it ever has been before. And so marriage has got to change.
It has got to morph into something else. There's really been no shift in marriage for a couple hundred years until now.
And now the realization that, you know, we do live longer and that people are marrying several times within their lifetime. You know, sometimes people get married, get divorced, get married, get divorced, get married a third time.
And those multiple marriages might be monogamous, but it still means you have time in your lifetime for multiple partners. Some people will have multiple partners at the same time.
And, but they don't want to lie about it. They don't want to

cheat. They don't want to have an affair.
And they realize, especially the younger generation, they realize, you know, maybe just because you get married doesn't mean you're dead. Like you, you're going to be attracted to other people, but they don't want to do what their parents and their grandparents did, which is get divorced.
Like divorce is painful, you know, it's horrible. It really hurts.
And so their ideas are, you know, maybe we can have more than one partner as long as we're honest. So marriage isn't really about morality so much as it is about integrity.
And I'm not going to tell you how you should have your marriage. Like everyone's marriage should be based on what the two of you want it to be.
I'm not here to judge you or tell you how to do it. But I will tell you that it's going to work a lot better if you're honest with each other about what you want.
So if you're going to have an open relationship, open means be open about it. Like be really good at communicating.
And we've sort of come full circle here, right? Like be open and communicate about the possibility, what it would look like, what it feels like if you do it, what it feels like afterwards, come back and talk about it, decide, is this really for us? Shut it down if it's not working. You know, the only people who are really good at this are people who can talk it to death until they're tired of it.
And those people can make it work. Yeah, well, when you did the Ashley Madison experiment, you mentioned something.
And I wasn't surprised. You said that, I forgot the percentage, but the rate of people that cheat is really, really high.
I forgot what it is. And to me, at least in my book, I think it's much better to be honest with each other, like said, like what you want out of the relationship, then go through all the trouble of cheating.
And you said something that a lot of people on Ashley Madison, they actually say like, oh, I don't want to like, I think you mentioned like

the men, they want to, they want to find like a partner, actually like a regular partner, right? On Ashley Madison, not just like a one night stand, right? They want to find a regular partner that they don't want to get out of the marriage, but they want to have like a regular lover, so to speak.

Someone they can talk to every week

and maybe even every day. They don't want to get out of the marriage, but they want to have like a regular lover, so to speak.

Someone they can talk to every week and maybe even every day.

Like they weren't really interested in multiple, you know, one night stands.

They really wanted a relationship with someone.

To me, that's mind boggling.

Like that's a lot of lying to memorize.

Like you go back home and you got to remember where you told your wife where you were a lot of like live a double life that's like so that's so complicated that takes so much effort a lot of compartmentalizing right you got to keep all those all those boxes straight isn't it and and i mean what do you think the main reason for that is it's not for like just if they want a regular lover on the side it's not for a variety of sexual partners what is it for like what is what do you think is the main reason a lot of them said that their partners at home had like like you mentioned before, they got really busy and distracted and they missed having a close relationship with someone. They missed having the attention.
They wanted someone who really looked up to them and respected them and wanted to hear all their stories about how their day was. And when they got home, their wives were busy.
They had their own lives, their own work, their own, they had the kids. They were like kind of sick of their husbands.
And so their husbands were like, I need a new wife, but I don't want to leave my own wife. So they had these parallel relationships.
The women were different. The women wanted men that they could just have sex with.
They didn't want that. They're like, you don't me about your life.
You have a wife at home for that. I don't want to hear it.
I got enough problems at home. I just want to have sex.
Oh, my God. That's too funny.
They just don't have great sex that their husbands are not giving them. Yeah.
And, yeah, believe it or not, that is so true. I get so many messages from women complaining that they do not get enough sex from their partners at home.
I think that's the number one complaint. If I'm going to tally up, like all the years that I do count on the loose, the number one sex complaint from married people, people in relationships, people with boyfriends is like, oh, he doesn't give me enough sex.
That's like the number one complaint that guys get lazy. Like in the beginning, they want to act like, you know, the lion, like, oh yeah, I love sex every day.
And I agree because it has happened to me in the past too. Every time a guy wants to date you, they tell you that they love a lot of sex.
And then as the months go by, they get lazier and lazier and lazier. And then they tell the truth.
Like some guys like it twice a week. Some guys like it three times.
Some guys like once a week. And I have a lot of married girlfriends that, you know, they literally say like they're having sex once a month, twice a month.
That's like definitely the number one complaint of women that they don't get enough, as much sex as they want to. Well, once every 14 days is pretty average for married couples.
Wow. So, you know, don't feel bad.
I mean, the idea of quality over quantity, you know, if you're having really good sex every couple of weeks, then that's better than not, than having bad sex three times a week. Oh my God.
I would, I tell you, I do not want to get married again to have sex and have a guy in my bed every night to have sex with me twice a month no thank you that is not i'm gonna have them sign like a door on the prenup no good sex not just yeah no that's not gonna cut because that's like such a trick. Like even if it's quality sex, I don't think that's enough.
I don't know. I kind of have to agree with my girlfriends that complain.
Guys, you're being too lazy out there, you know, step up to the plate. So before I let you go, because I know you're sick and you're being so wonderful, any messages of encouragement for people out there living unfulfilled sex lives that might feel hopeless in terms of changing it? Or the people that were saying that are feeling that they might be past their sexual prime or that never worked with a doctor before.
You know, a lot of people, they feel a little intimidated when it comes to, they might be listening to our interview, but you know, a lot of people feel intimidated, like reaching out to a doctor they never did, like, what would you say to them? I think, you know, listening to podcasts like this, going on to, like, I have a podcast too, The Trouble With Sex, going on to things on YouTube. That's better than looking at pornography, because pornography is not really going to tell you the truth of what to do, what to expect.
It's not going to teach you how to have good sex. And the second thing is, most people who stop having sex, it's because they're tired.
it's not necessarily that they don't want their partner or they don't want to have sex. It's that, you know, we lead a lifestyle that's really exhausting.
And so switch it up, have a sex date once a week. You know, everyone's, everyone reacts to the sex date idea like, oh, it's not spontaneous.
And, but the reality is the way we have our busy lives, we need to put sex on the calendar. And you can be as spontaneous as you want if you plan it once a week.
And if you have it more than once a week, that's great. But you should have a sex date once a week where you can really, you know, make it sacred, make it a time where you're both gonna carve out that special time for each other, dress up, light candles.
you know, make it sacred, make it a time where you're both going to carve out that special time

for each other, dress up, light candles, you know, don't go out to dinner or go to a movie, like stay home, have a sex date, make a plan, share your fantasies. I have a date night card deck that you pull a card and it forces you to have a conversation about sex.
Oh yeah, I love love that. It's available on Amazon, right? I love that.
Yeah. Tammy Nelson.
And anything like that that you can do, you know, it doesn't have to be my card deck. It could be anything that really sparks a conversation.
Yeah. Because, you know, talking about sex makes you want to have sex.
Yes, I agree. I always tell people, like like you don't have to wait until you're in bed

naked maybe like you're having dinner or like happy hour or something and you start talking about your fantasies a scene you saw in a movie or something that might spark the plug right that's a great suggestion thank you so much dr tammy i wish you a very speedy recovery and your husband as well. Thank you for being such a wonderful, good, good sport and doing Cat on the Luz.
Although you're sick, you are really wonderful. I love your work.
And I'm going to put all her links, all her work on my website, Cat on the Luz, so you guys can find her because she's truly amazing. Thank you so much.
It was a huge honor having you. Thank you.
you thank you very very fast guys go have amazing safe sex out there love you see you soon big shout out to the burrata house one of my favorite casual dining places in the heart of west hollywood they make authentic Italian food, sandwiches, pasta, salads with the delicious, delicious, fresh burrata on top on 161 South Crescent Heights. So if you're looking for a place that you can have a quick bite for lunch, dinner, takeout for your family, this is it.
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Everything is really, really yummy. Not only I'm a huge supporter of

women supporting women, but I have so many amazing guy friends in my industry. So I want to give two big shout outs to people that also do podcasts and radio stations.
It's such a tough business. So big, big shout outs to other podcasts that I love very, very, very much.
And I always say there is room for everybody. I think we need to stop looking at each other as competition, competition, competition, and more looking at each other as co-workers, looking at each other as collaborators.
Because like I said, if we're authentic, we should all do our thing and there is space for everybody. So if you guys love sports, I highly recommend check out Aira on Sports, one of the top sports podcasts in the nation by Aira Kaufman.
Aira is a walking encyclopedia of sports. He follows sports no matter what it is, football, volleyball, tennis, golf, you name it.
He's there up and down the country, everywhere. Amazing guest interviews.
He drops new episodes every Mondays. He is incredible.
He's in all the games. He always has exclusive photos, exclusive videos on Instagram, on Twitter, Aira on Sports.
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And if you're a huge fan of country music, I love it. Check out Kick-Ass Country Radio.
You can listen everywhere you go. You can get all the links through their Instagram, Kick-Ass Country Music, so you can get your country vibe on the go.
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