FOR THE LOVE OF SEX WITH DR TAMMY NELSON PHD

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Speaker 3 My guest today, Dr.

Speaker 3 Tammy Nelson, PhD, is a sex and relationship expert, a TEDx talker, international speaker, an author, and licensed psychotherapist with almost 30 years of experience working with individuals and couples.

Speaker 3 In private practice, she focuses on helping people of all ages, orientations, and genders to find love, healing and passion.

Speaker 3 Tammy is also the director of the Integrative Sex Therapy Institute and has been a licensed sex therapist in practice for over 30 years.

Speaker 3 She teaches in several universities and is the host of her own podcast, The Trouble with Sex. She wrote several books about the subject.

Speaker 3 She consults with institutes, think tanks, corporations, and she's been featured on several, several publications, including the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, Glamour Magazine, Cosmopolitan, MSNBC, Men's Health, Women's Daily, etc., etc., etc.

Speaker 3 I mean, her curriculum goes on and on and on. Very few people are as knowledgeable about the subject as she is.
So, I really hope you guys enjoy my conversation with Tammy.

Speaker 3 And I really hope that, as talking about sex openly as we are trying to do here we keep breaking barriers and making this conversation more and more common and frequent as possible possible in the years to come and make more and more women seek pleasurable happy fulfilling sex lives without feeling ashamed but before we get going with today's episode i want to introduce you guys to a company that i love very much here in los angeles gold standard builders your one-stop shop for all your remodeling needs serving the greater los angeles area so if you've been thinking about redoing your kitchen maybe if your bathroom is outdated or you want to get your backyard ready for the summer or if your house has some damage from all these crazy rains we've been getting here in la you can totally trust these guys they do incredible work very fair prices the owner is very hands-on They are licensed, bonded, insured.

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Speaker 3 Dr. Tammy Nelson, thank you so much for being on Cat on the Loose.
It's such an honor to have you.

Speaker 3 And you are an incredible, strong woman, and you're being such a good trooper because we're doing this virtually. Because I just found out you have COVID.

Speaker 4 Yeah, thank you for having me. And I'm sorry I'm not sounding as clear as I normally would, but I appreciate you being flexible.

Speaker 3 I am very honored to have you, and I appreciate you not even canceling on us because I think most people would cancel, would be in bed recovering.

Speaker 4 There's no time to be in bed. I have too much to do.

Speaker 3 Oh my god. So, guys, if you're out there, yes, COVID is still around.
So, we still got to be safe, right, Dr. Tammy?

Speaker 4 Yes, absolutely. Take care of yourself.

Speaker 3 I know.

Speaker 3 I'm very grateful that you're doing this because every time I say we're going to do an episode about sex, as you probably know, since you're one of the top experts in the subject, we get get dozens and dozens and dozens of questions it's still a huge taboo subject it's still a big deal a lot of people are very ashamed when it comes to talking about sex is it your perception as well after all these 30 plus years in your profession

Speaker 4 well you know i've spoken all over the world and done couples workshops. I just got back from doing a retreat in the desert with couples.

Speaker 4 I've spoken in all different countries to all different therapists.

Speaker 4 And I found that people speak the least about sex to the person they're actually having sex with. It doesn't matter where they live.

Speaker 3 Isn't that bizarre?

Speaker 3 And I agree, it's funny because I noticed that

Speaker 3 I'm not an expert and I'm not a doctor, but I've been doing the podcast for three and a half, almost four years. And I do get messages from people from all over the world.

Speaker 3 And of course, I've been in relationships, and I agree with you. I notice, even with my partners, most people have huge difficulty communicating with their own partners.

Speaker 3 They're very embarrassed when it comes to talking about sex and their desires, and if they're fulfilled or not fulfilled, and their fantasies.

Speaker 3 Women have a lot of issues when it comes to talking about pleasure and if they're having orgasms or not. Why do you think that is?

Speaker 4 Well, I think we've been taught from an early age that talking about sex is private and it should be hidden. And,

Speaker 4 you know, we're not even taught how to talk about our body parts. You know, even as adults, like even on Oprah, Oprah calls her vagina a Vejay.

Speaker 4 person in the world. And so we're not even allowed to talk about our own bodies.
And so there's a,

Speaker 4 you know, a hush-hush idea about sex that is really based in shame and guilt.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I know.

Speaker 3 And it's sad to me.

Speaker 3 And you're so right because even on social media, right, if we talk about sex openly, they flag the account, they associate sex with something dirty, with pornography, with something illegal.

Speaker 3 So even for us to do our job as communicators, it's a tough road because if we speak freely about it,

Speaker 3 they think you're doing something wrong. And it blows my mind because, to me, it's one of the most important conversations that we should be having.

Speaker 3 I think it's one of the most important parts of an adult-fulfilling relationship.

Speaker 3 And how do we break the stigma? How do we make these conversations more and more normal? Is there a way to do that?

Speaker 4 Well, you know, a lot of

Speaker 4 conversations about sex are based in shame about pleasure. So, you know, the idea of pleasure in our society is something that we have to work for.

Speaker 4 You know, you can work hard all week and then have pleasure on the weekends and you should binge on it and come back hungover and miserable and broke and then get back to the real work.

Speaker 4 So I think you know, in the society and culture that we're in, this idea of pleasure is something that, first of of all, you have to earn. Second of all, only some people deserve it.

Speaker 4 And third, you should feel guilty about it. And

Speaker 4 so maybe we could change the conversation from sex to pleasure and start talking about how pleasure is our birthright, especially for women.

Speaker 4 You know, women have been sort of shunned around pleasure since, you know, Eve ate the apple. And she was naked, by the way.

Speaker 4 And there's so much punishment for us having any kind of pleasure and you know if women are seen to find pleasure in sexual relationships then they're shamed and

Speaker 4 you know we can only be either good girls or bad girls and the idea of

Speaker 4 expressing ourselves as full people who have all of those parts inside of us

Speaker 4 would take a lot of acceptance Yeah, it's really tough.

Speaker 3 I think it's especially tough for women because men, and it's funny to me this day and age, right?

Speaker 3 Because a guy, if a guy goes out there and dates multiple women and has sex with multiple women, he will brag to his friends, right? It's no big deal at all.

Speaker 3 Now, if a single woman goes out there and has casual sex and talks about it, or even if she doesn't have casual sex, like in my case, I don't even have casual sex, but just the fact that I do a sex podcast, I am labeled.

Speaker 3 Most men, even before they date me, they think, oh my god, she's going out every night, she's promiscuous, she's dating all kinds of men, she's having sex with all kinds of men.

Speaker 3 They label you like a whore.

Speaker 3 And to me, it's really funny because we would hope that this day and age, with all this information, you know, it would be a little different, but it isn't.

Speaker 3 It's still such a huge stigma when it comes to everything related to sex.

Speaker 4 well, you are cat on the loose, so

Speaker 3 I know, but like I said, if he was a guy, like if he was a boy on the loose, everybody would be cheering him on, like, oh, how many girls? No, no, no, go for it. Yeah, go.

Speaker 3 But if it's a, and I always say, I didn't say I'm cat on the loose banging guys every night. Maybe I'm cat on the loose seeking the love of my life.

Speaker 3 I'm on the lose seeking the perfect relationship of my life.

Speaker 3 But everybody immediately thinks she's like this crazy woman boy hungry and there is a double standard for how men can have sex and how girl how women can have sex.

Speaker 4 Yeah,

Speaker 4 so there's about the same amount of women as there are men on Ashley Madison. Ashley Madison is the website.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 People can go on to find alternative partners. And that says a lot about women.

Speaker 4 And regardless of how people talk about them, women are having as much sex as men, and as many affairs, and as you know, as many open relationships.

Speaker 4 And so, regardless of how people look at women, the reality is women are really the gatekeepers of sex now. They are the ones that say they're going to have sex or not have sex.

Speaker 4 And part of that is because marriage today has become so optional. You know, we don't need to get married to have sex.
We don't need to get married to have children.

Speaker 4 We don't need to get married to get a mortgage or pass down our

Speaker 4 property. We don't need to get married to get health insurance or life insurance.

Speaker 4 We really don't need to get married. So it's awesome.
It's so true.

Speaker 4 Yeah. But we are closest, right?

Speaker 3 So let's rewind a little bit because I did listen to your TED talk, which I thought it was fantastic. And you delve into all of those things.

Speaker 3 So I definitely want to talk about that because it was very, very interesting to me. You talk about the new monogamy, which is what I think you were just starting to explain.

Speaker 3 Back then, there were all these reasons why women needed to get married. Now, all of that is

Speaker 3 out of our plate. You are absolutely right.
We don't need all of that anymore. But then you mentioned something really interesting.
Yeah, two things.

Speaker 3 Let's talk about, I definitely want to talk about the Ashley Madison experiment you did.

Speaker 3 But before we delve into that, you talk about the new monogamy and you mention and you said something and please correct me because i didn't memorize everything but i paid a lot of attention because i thought it was very interesting you mentioned that the most difficult part of being uh monogamous can be the sexual monogamy

Speaker 3 and i agree with you can you can you explain and elaborate on that for people that don't know your work and didn't listen to your ted talk

Speaker 4 Well, there's actually, I don't know if this is in the TED Talk, but there's actually studies that say that monogamy gets boring for women much sooner than it does for men.

Speaker 4 Monogamy really doesn't work for women. And that we will want variety and get stuck much earlier than men will.
Men will put up with it, and as long as they can have sex. Really?

Speaker 4 We want to have varied partnerships and we won't put up with boring sex like men will.

Speaker 3 But isn't it usually men that cheat first?

Speaker 4 Women cheat first. Really? Women cheat first.
They're just better at hiding it. Really?

Speaker 4 Because there's been historically so much worse punishment for women for cheating. And there still is.
I mean, there's

Speaker 4 worse than shame. It can be dangerous for women to cheat.
So women have been taught to hide it. and cover it up.
And men, like you said before, you know, men brag about it.

Speaker 4 They brag about their multiple partners. And so,

Speaker 4 you know, actually, men will overemphasize their multiple partners, even if it's not true. And women will

Speaker 4 underemphasize and say, no, that's not true.

Speaker 3 Why do you think is the number one?

Speaker 3 I honestly didn't know that. I'm actually surprised because I thought men cheat way more than women do.

Speaker 4 Not statistically.

Speaker 3 Wow. I'm super surprised about that.
But because it just me,

Speaker 3 I never cheated because it's just not in my nature. Because I'm the opposite, I what turns me on being with someone is feeling that I belong with a person.

Speaker 3 So the minute I cheat, to me, the relationship is over

Speaker 3 because the

Speaker 3 magic, quote-unquote, is broken. I was in a miserable marriage for 14 and a half years.

Speaker 3 I don't know if you if you've heard about my story, but I put a lot out there because I was very abused by my husband. He was an alcoholic, and the more money he made, the more he drank.

Speaker 3 And he was very verbally abusive. He physically assaulted me sometimes.
It took me a very long time to get out of the marriage.

Speaker 3 But during all that time, I never cheated on him because I felt, you know, oh my God, my loyalties to him.

Speaker 3 But we were almost in an almost sexless marriage. Now looking back, I'm thinking like, how the hell did you manage, right?

Speaker 3 But I know there are so many women like me that they take years and years years and years to even master the courage to get out of a miserable relationship with very little to no sex.

Speaker 3 So, to think, and I know a lot of women

Speaker 3 have horrible sex lives, but don't have the courage to go and cheat because, like you said, because the stigma and the consequences are so huge.

Speaker 4 Yeah,

Speaker 3 so that, so you know, it can be really, really, really tough and complicated if you're a woman. As to like, if you're a man,

Speaker 3 I know a lot of friends, and I've heard I get messages from men all over the world that are in miserable marriages, but because of financial situations or the kids or whatever it is,

Speaker 3 it's easier for them. They just go and cheat and have affairs because it's easier for them to hide, or even if somebody finds out, the consequences are not as bad as

Speaker 3 for the woman. So I see that a lot more.

Speaker 4 Well, you're getting a lot of letters from people that are being pretty honest with you.

Speaker 3 I get the opposite.

Speaker 4 I get, you know, a lot of clients and a lot of couples that come in to try to repair from an affair. And it's not just men that are cheating, it's all of them.

Speaker 3 No, of course. I mean, you're a doctor, so I'm sure like when they seek your help, they feel a lot more comfortable talking to a doctor.

Speaker 3 To me, it's more like generalized situations, you know, so it's a little more more complicated. But what do you think is the number one reason that drives people to cheat?

Speaker 4 Um, I was gonna say, maybe they're trying to hit on you, maybe that's why they're right.

Speaker 3 I don't think so. I don't know, I don't think so.
I doubt it. I doubt very much.

Speaker 4 I don't doubt it. You're beautiful.

Speaker 3 Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.

Speaker 4 The number one reason that people cheat, I mean, it's really,

Speaker 4 it's not what you think it is. Like, a lot of people think it's the cliche that men cheat for sex and women cheat for emotions.
And it actually isn't necessarily true that

Speaker 4 men actually want relationships. They want to feel like they're connected to someone.
They want attention. They want to feel like they matter.

Speaker 4 Women actually do want to have good sex. They don't want to settle.
They want to have excitement. They don't want to have the burden of somebody else's problems.

Speaker 4 And they don't necessarily want to leave their marriage, but they don't want the obligation of being someone's wife. So a lot of times women cheat for sex and men cheat for emotion.

Speaker 3 Wow, that's very interesting.

Speaker 3 I mean, I'm like so surprised because I never would have thought. Like I talk to my girlfriends and we always think like guys cheat because they're pigs, because they want to have a lot of sex

Speaker 3 because they want variety.

Speaker 3 That's not the case.

Speaker 4 You can't generalize to all men.

Speaker 4 All men are not like that. And some people, whether they're men or women, are going to cheat for sex.
And the reality is a lot of people cheat because they want out of their relationship.

Speaker 4 They just don't know how to do it. I call those like the can opener relationships, right? So it's sort of like they swing from branch to branch,

Speaker 4 trying to test it out. Like, would I be able to have another partner? Or what's it like to be with someone else? And and

Speaker 4 those those affairs you really can't recover from you know some people cheat to get out of their marriage and

Speaker 3 it's kind of a passive aggressive way to break up it like forces their partner to break up with them yeah oh and I yeah I hear a lot of those stories for sure and they usually never end well right

Speaker 4 Well, I I think it's like a way of just dropping off your partner on the way out the door, you know, like they come to therapy and say i had an affair but i really don't want i don't feel bad and i don't want to get back together so i don't think you can recover from those affairs but i think most people can

Speaker 4 if they really want to they can create a new monogamy a new marriage going forward after an affair i don't think it has to be the end of your relationship but i think it really depends depends on why you had the affair depends on how you're feeling about your current marriage.

Speaker 3 I mean, I've seen a lot of affairs that can be a wake-up call where people go oh my god where were we going and what was happening and we have to really look at what we want and and you can repair and even be better off after that yeah so that's a good question let's say a couple listening to us and that's really tough right after many years a lot of couples doesn't matter how much you love each other it's hard to keep the flame alive right keep it going

Speaker 3 How do you do that?

Speaker 3 Any tips, any ideas, whether or not they cheated on each other, or maybe like you're thinking about cheating, or a lot of people complain, like, you know, we don't have sex as often as we did.

Speaker 3 Used to be great, it's not great anymore. Some people had kids, whatever the reasons are, and, you know, they get frustrated.
Any ideas how to,

Speaker 3 you know, spice it up again, make sex hot and heavy again after a while?

Speaker 4 I think it goes back to what you were saying in the beginning. Like, first of all, your sex, three things.
First of all, your sex is not going to change unless you talk about it.

Speaker 4 It's never going to happen unless you bring it up. And so learning to talk to each other about what you want and what you need to be different is number one.

Speaker 4 Number two, it's not going to change if you complain about it. So the secret of the universe is you always get more of what you appreciate.

Speaker 4 So you start off with communicating about what has worked, even if it's something in the way past.

Speaker 4 Share with each other, you know, I really appreciated the way we used to have sex in the shower 20 years ago. That was really fun.
I would like more of that.

Speaker 4 So talk about anything that's worked that you liked in the past that you could do more of. That's a way to expand on things.

Speaker 4 And then you can talk about, you know, number three, which is things you want to try.

Speaker 4 I wouldn't lead with your fantasies because it can be kind of threatening to say, you know, I'd really like to shake things up and get adventurous and do this or that.

Speaker 4 Because then your partner is going to feel like, well, where'd you learn that? Like in an affair or on porn? Or how come you don't like what we do?

Speaker 4 Like if you lead with appreciation, your brain hears what your partner is saying. in the grown-up part of your brain, like your prefrontal cortex.

Speaker 4 It doesn't go into that fight or flight, like, oh my God, I'm in trouble, or they don't like me, or something's wrong. So it's important the way you talk about it.
You know,

Speaker 4 a good way to start the conversation might be, oh, I listened to this podcast and I listened to Cat on the Loose, and this is what they told me we should say to spice things up.

Speaker 4 And so this is what I want to try.

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Speaker 3 I love that idea.

Speaker 3 Now, speaking of fantasies, because because that's one conversation that i have over and over and over on the podcast and you know i meet a lot of of course a lot of men on you know dating app many of them that i don't even date but i talk to tons and tons of men on dating apps and friends and a lot of them they say that they left the marriages because

Speaker 3 the sex life dwindled or almost died and they got super frustrated guys in their 50s and 60s and they want to start a a new phase in life same for women men and women but a lot of guys complain you know that the wives whatever got busy doing something else taking care of the kids let it go and didn't provide them with great sex anymore and they want to have great sex and they have all these fantasies and ideas that they want to do but they're too ashamed of like like we were saying of communicating it with a new partner i think it's hilarious how people are embarrassed to tell each other what they want to do like they blush like teenagers.

Speaker 3 They are super ashamed about talking about it. I guess the United States, right, is a culture.
Like you said, we are raised like we don't even say the word vagina, like you were saying.

Speaker 3 So they always ask that,

Speaker 3 how do I tell my like my partner that I want to do something? Because most women are like, oh my god, do you really want to do this? Like their reaction usually is a reaction of

Speaker 3 like shock or a negative reaction in general,

Speaker 3 do you have an idea how to introduce fantasies

Speaker 3 into a new relationship that's not gonna scare the partner?

Speaker 4 Well, I think it depends on the fantasy. And I think if you said it in a way that was sexy and integrated into the relationship, your partner's not gonna go, oh my god, I can't believe you said that.

Speaker 4 The assumption that women don't want to hear your fantasies is an interesting one. I think that has more to do with

Speaker 4 the idea that

Speaker 4 the couple is not having good sex to begin with. You know, it's not pathological to not want to have bad sex.

Speaker 4 If you're not having good sex, And the person doesn't want to have sex with you, it's not their fault. You know, if it's boring, why do you want to go to the party? It's boring.

Speaker 4 So it's not their fault. It's not like there's something wrong with them, that they won't act out your fantasy or they won't have sex with you.

Speaker 4 It's actually really smart to not want to have the same boring sex over and over again. So it's not,

Speaker 4 the goal is not to convince the other person to act out your fantasy.

Speaker 4 The goal is to make it really exciting for them and really sexy and find out what they want, what's going to turn them on, so that they want to come to the party and they're going to have a good time.

Speaker 4 Right. So if a couple has a low sex or a sexless relationship, it's either one of three things.

Speaker 4 It's the relationship. You know, it's hard to climb over the resentment in the middle of the bed.
And, you know, if you're not liking each other, you're not going to want to have sex.

Speaker 4 Number two, it could be something anatomical. You know, it could be hormones.
I mean, right after you have a kid, nobody wants to have sex. You're tired.
It could be medication.

Speaker 4 It could be you know sexual dysfunction if you can't get an erection you're going to avoid having sex it could be you know something physical or number three it could be something to do with pleasure that it's not pleasurable if you're not having an orgasm or you know it's boring and doing the same thing over and over that can be fixed you know you can learn how to do that And the way that you learn is to talk about it.

Speaker 4 And you both have to talk about what you like and what you want and maybe what you don't like, even.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I love that. I think, at least to me, communication is key.

Speaker 3 And nowadays, I always insist on that with whoever I'm dating.

Speaker 3 And if the person is uncomfortable, I'm really like, I'm sorry, because I think if you don't communicate, that's where you start having problems in any area, right?

Speaker 3 We're obviously today we're talking about sex, but if you don't tell your partner what you like and what you don't like and what you're comfortable and what you're uncomfortable with they're not going to read your mind and i think that's where so many couples get in trouble because they're too embarrassed too ashamed of talking about it do you agree yeah i really think that this idea of mind reading is interesting that you know we think if our partner loved us they would just know what we need they would know they should bring us flowers on friday and they should be purple and they should be at the office and everyone should see them and but if we have to tell them then it doesn't count, right?

Speaker 4 And it's the same with sex. Like if you really loved me, you would know exactly what I need and how to give me an orgasm and what I like and when I like it and when I don't feel like it.

Speaker 4 You would know why. And, you know, if I feel bloated or tired and I don't feel like it, then you won't take it personally.
Like you should just read all that in my mind.

Speaker 3 It doesn't work like that, right?

Speaker 4 It doesn't work like that. And it's not fair.

Speaker 4 You know, if you want a certain kind of sex or you want sex a certain kind of way, if you tell your partner, at least you have a 50-50 chance of getting it.

Speaker 4 But if you don't tell them and they don't do it that way, it's not their fault. They can't read your mind.

Speaker 3 I agree. Tell them.
Speak up, people. I completely agree.
You said something on your TED talk that I

Speaker 3 loved.

Speaker 3 I could not agree with you more. And I say that all the time, but I want people to listen from an expert because I'm not an expert at all.

Speaker 3 You said we should assume that we're going to remain sexual beings until way late in our lives, way past our 50s, way past our 60s. And this is why I'm emphasizing the age.

Speaker 3 Because I meet so many people. And again, I get messages from people all over the world.
And I literally meet men and women, women in their late 30s. I'm not kidding you.

Speaker 3 Men in their early 50s, men in their late 50s, they're like, oh, I'm old. Oh, sex is

Speaker 3 never going to be the same.

Speaker 3 I'm like, what are you people talking about? Like, it drives me crazy out of my mind. Like, they put an expiration date on having great sex lives.
And I think...

Speaker 3 That it should get better and better and better because you know your body better You know what you like better,

Speaker 3 you know, like in your 20s and you're uncomfortable and you're ashamed. And she's shaking her head, yes, guys.
So, yeah, I think I have a point.

Speaker 3 So, and now, like I said, I have, of course, I've been through my crappy marriage, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 3 But now, whenever I have a partner and I have sex with my partner, I know what I like and I feel great and I know I'm hot and I know how to come and how to make him come.

Speaker 3 And I feel amazing in bed. So, when I hear 50-year-old men,

Speaker 3 55-year-old men telling me, oh, you know, I don't know, maybe once a week, maybe twice a week, and I have 30-something-year-old girlfriends telling me that they don't remember the last time they had an orgasm, it worries me.

Speaker 3 So when you said that in your tattoo, I'm like, oh my God, can you please say it again and elaborate on that for us, doctor?

Speaker 4 Yeah, I'm really worried about those women who aren't having orgasms because that says that they're either faking it or they're they're just having sex without an orgasm as if that's okay.

Speaker 4 And that says that they're probably not having any clitoral stimulation, which if you're a guy can feel like you're just having stimulation of your scrotum, but never touching your penis.

Speaker 4 Like that would be nice, but eventually you get bored. So you know, if you're a guy, you got to know that's where all the nerve endings are and that's where the good stuff is.

Speaker 4 So, for women, you know, again, you can't assume that your partner is going to read your mind, they may not understand your anatomy and what you need. You're responsible for your own orgasm.

Speaker 4 So, don't settle, ladies, don't let that happen. Don't fake it.
You know, 80% of women will fake an orgasm just because they feel bad for their partner.

Speaker 4 I mean, that's just unacceptable. So, if that's all the takeaway is from today's show, then that's great.
Don't fake an orgasm.

Speaker 3 Don't fake it tell them or or figure it out how to to make it happen right now how about these guys like do you get patients do you do you meet these dudes like in their 50s and early 60s that lost their libido or lost their sexual desire or not having regular sex think they're they're past their prime

Speaker 4 i think we have this image of what sex should be that we think if we're not having sex like we did when we were 19 then there's something wrong. So,

Speaker 4 sex is very developmental. You go through different developmental stages.
And actually, you know, sex does not fall off a cliff just because you're in menopause or post-menopause.

Speaker 4 Actually, for women, sex can get better after menopause. You can become multi-orgasmic for the first time in your life after menopause.
There's no PMS, there's no bleeding, there's no pain.

Speaker 4 And many women have much better sex in their 60s than they've ever had before and the problem for men sometimes is that they may not get an erection like they did when they were younger they may not be able to have as many erections at close together so they feel like oh i may not be you know the guy with the sexual prowess that i was and but that's not what women or partners are looking for they're not looking for you to stay hard for 24 hours or whatever they're looking for a partner who's who's engaged and present, and both of you who are seeking pleasure together.

Speaker 4 That's what makes good sex. So I think that when men think, oh, I'm getting older and I'm not having good sex, it may be one, you're tired.
Two, you're thinking you should have sex like a 19-year-old.

Speaker 4 And three, you're not appreciating that this is a new developmental phase for you. And you can have great sex.
It just might not be like you did when you were younger.

Speaker 3 I completely agree. And I say that.
And I know it's controversial because I said it a few times on the podcast, and I get so much backlash, but I'm gonna say it all the time.

Speaker 3 I think if you are not trying to have a more fulfilling sex life in your 40s, in your 50s, whatever it is, I think you're missing out a big, amazing, fun part of your adult life.

Speaker 3 And when I say that, there is always the people like, oh, you don't know me. Oh my God, you're such a pervert.

Speaker 3 I'm like, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 I think it's people take too much medication in this country and i go back to the to social media right we can buy prescription for antidepressive diozampic you can buy pot like you can be heavily sedated

Speaker 3 but when we talk about having orgasms which you tell me if i'm wrong but it's one of the most powerful natural uh great chemicals for our brain right when we talk about that it's wrong but i think it's one of the best things that we can do for ourselves.

Speaker 3 And I think these people that are like decided that they're past their sex prime in their 50s and 60s, they're really missing out.

Speaker 4 We can have good sex well into our 80s, sometimes even in our 90s, you know, with joint replacements and Viagra, La Vitra, Sialis, all of that. People are expecting to have sex well into their 80s.

Speaker 4 And, you know, we're in better shape than we ever have been before, except for COVID.

Speaker 4 Most of us are pretty damn healthy. You know, we

Speaker 4 eat better than we ever have. Like people are focused on their health, not like our parents or our grandparents.

Speaker 4 You know, our parents and our grandparents would get to 60 and they'd be like, okay, well, I've had a good run. But that's not how we are today.

Speaker 4 We're expected to live much longer than we ever have before and stay younger. People play sports, they play tennis, they go walking, they swim until they're in their 90s.

Speaker 4 So there's no reason you can't have sex until you're 90s.

Speaker 3 Oh my God. Amen.
And I hope you guys are listening. And if you're not having great sex, you know, for the love of God, seek help.

Speaker 3 Before we run out of time, I want to talk about something that is also very controversial. But I think it's important to talk about for a second.
Open relationships.

Speaker 3 And I know you've talked about it and I know you've written about it. Can you give me your take on that?

Speaker 3 What's your opinion? It can work for some people, right?

Speaker 4 You know, I think we're in a different time. I think we're in a time of like a revolution of relationships.

Speaker 4 Because 200 years ago, marriage was really about keeping women at home to guarantee that your children were your children and you could pass down your sheep, your possessions to the right offspring.

Speaker 4 And today, we don't do that. It doesn't matter because women can have their own property and pass down their own possessions.
So marriage marriage is much, much different than it ever has been before.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 so, marriage has got to change. It has got to morph into something else.
There's really been no shift in marriage for a couple hundred years until now. And now, the realization that

Speaker 4 we do live longer and that people are marrying several times within their lifetime. You know, sometimes people get married, get divorced, get married, get divorced, get married a third time.

Speaker 4 And those multiple marriages might be monogamous, but it still means you have time in your lifetime for multiple partners. Some people will have multiple partners at the same time,

Speaker 4 but they don't want to lie about it. They don't want to cheat.
They don't want to have an affair.

Speaker 4 And they realize, especially the younger generation, they realize, you know, maybe just because you get married doesn't mean you're dead.

Speaker 4 Like you're going to be attracted to other people, but they don't want to do what their parents and their grandparents did, which is get divorced. Like divorce is painful, you know, it's horrible.

Speaker 4 Yes. It really hurts.
And so their ideas are, you know, maybe we can have more than one partner as long as we're honest. So marriage isn't really about morality so much as it is about integrity.

Speaker 4 And I'm not going to tell you how you should have your marriage. Like everyone's marriage should be based on what the two of you want it to be.

Speaker 4 I'm not here to judge you or tell you how to do it, but I will tell you that it's going to work a lot better if you're honest with each other about what you want.

Speaker 4 So if you're going to have an open relationship, open means be open about it. Like be really good at communicating.
And we're sort of come full circle here, right?

Speaker 4 Like be open and communicate about the possibility, what it would look like, what it feels like if you do it, what it feels like afterwards.

Speaker 4 Come back and talk about it, decide is this really for us, shut it down if it's not working.

Speaker 3 You know, the only people who are really good at this are people who can talk it to death until they're tired of it yeah and those people can make it work yeah well you when you did the Ashley Madison experiment you mentioned something and I wasn't surprised you said that I forgot the the percentage but the rate of people that cheat is really really high I forgot what it is

Speaker 3 And to me, at least in my book, I think it's much better to be honest with each other like said like what you want out of the relationship than go through all the trouble of cheating and you you said something that a lot of people on ashley madison they actually say like oh i don't want to like i think you said mentioned like the men they want to cheat they want to find like a partner actually like a regular partner right on ashley madison not just like a one-night stand

Speaker 3 Right, they want to find a regular partner that they don't want to get out of the marriage, but but they want to have like a regular lover, so to speak.

Speaker 4 Someone they can talk to every week and maybe every even every day. Like they weren't really interested in multiple, you know, one-night stands.
They really wanted a relationship with someone.

Speaker 3 To me, that's mind-boggling. Like, that's a lot of lying to memorize.

Speaker 3 Like, you go back home and you got to remember where you told your wife, where you were, la da, la, la, like, live a double life. That's like so, oh, that's so complicated.
That takes so much effort.

Speaker 4 A lot of compartmentalizing, right? You got to keep all those, all those boxes straight, isn't it?

Speaker 3 And, and, I mean, what do you think the main reason for that is? It's not for, like, just if they want

Speaker 3 a regular lover on the side, it's not for a variety of sexual partners. What is it for? Like, what is, what do you think is the main reason?

Speaker 4 A lot of them said that their partners at home had, like you mentioned before, they got really busy and distracted and they missed having a close relationship with someone.

Speaker 4 They missed having the attention. They wanted someone who

Speaker 4 really looked up to them and respected them and wanted to hear all their stories about how their day was. And when they got home, their wives were busy.

Speaker 4 They had their own lives, their own work, their own, they had the kids. They were like kind of sick of their husbands.

Speaker 4 And so their husbands were like, I need a new wife, but I don't want to leave my old wife. So, they have these parallel relationships.
The women were different.

Speaker 4 The women wanted men that they could just have sex with, they didn't want that. They're like, You don't tell me about your

Speaker 4 life. You have a wife at home for that.
I don't want to hear it. I got enough problems at home.
I just want to have sex.

Speaker 3 Oh my god, that's too funny. They just want to have great sex that their husbands are not giving them.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And I, yeah, believe it or not, that is so true. I get so many messages from women complaining that they do not get enough sex from their partners at home.
I think that's the number one complaint.

Speaker 3 If I'm gonna tally up,

Speaker 3 like all the years that I do can on the loose, the number one sex complaint from married people, people in relationships, people with boyfriends is like, oh, he doesn't give me enough sex.

Speaker 3 That's like the number one complaint that guys get lazy, like in the beginning, they want to act like you know, the lion, like, oh, yeah, I love sex every day.

Speaker 3 And I agree because it has happened to me in the past, too.

Speaker 3 Every time a guy wants to date you, they tell you that they love a lot of sex, and then as the months go by, they get lazier and lazier and lazier, and then they tell the truth.

Speaker 3 Like, some guys like it twice a week, some guys like it three times a week, some guys like once a week.

Speaker 3 And I have a lot of married girlfriends that you know, they literally say like they're having sex once a month twice a month that's like a definitely the number one complaint of women that they don't get enough as much sex as they want to

Speaker 4 well once every 14 days is pretty average for married couples wow so you know don't feel bad I mean the idea of quality over quantity.

Speaker 4 You know, if you're having really good sex every couple weeks, then that's better than not than having bad sex three times a week.

Speaker 3 Oh my God. I wouldn't, I tell you, I do not want to get married again

Speaker 3 to have sex, have a guy in my bed

Speaker 3 every night to have sex with me twice a month.

Speaker 4 No, thank you.

Speaker 3 That is not.

Speaker 3 I'm going to have them sign like a door on the prenup.

Speaker 4 No.

Speaker 3 yeah, no, that's not gonna cut because that's like such a trick. Like, even if it's quality sex, I don't think that's enough.
I don't know. I kind of have to agree with my girlfriends that complain

Speaker 3 that, guys, you're being too lazy out there. You know, step up to the plate.

Speaker 3 So, before I let you go, because I know you're sick and you're being so wonderful, any messages of encouragement for people out there living unfulfilled sex lives that might feel hopeless in terms of changing it, or the people that were saying that are feeling that they might be past their sexual prime or they never worked with a doctor before.

Speaker 3 You know, a lot of people, they feel a little intimidated when it comes to, they might be listening to our interview, but you know, a lot of people feel intimidated, like reaching out to a doctor they never did.

Speaker 3 Like, what would you say to them?

Speaker 4 I think, you know, listening to podcasts like this,

Speaker 4 going on to, like, I have a podcast to The Trouble with Sex, going on to

Speaker 4 things on YouTube. That's better than looking at pornography because pornography is not really going to tell you the truth of what to do, what to expect.

Speaker 4 It's not going to teach you how to have good sex.

Speaker 4 And the second thing is

Speaker 4 most people who stop having sex, it's because they're tired. It's not necessarily that they don't want their partner or they don't want to have sex.

Speaker 4 It's that, you know, we lead a lifestyle that's really exhausting. And so switch it up.
Have a sex date once a week.

Speaker 3 You know,

Speaker 4 everyone reacts to the sex date idea like, oh, it's not spontaneous. And, but the reality is the way we have our busy lives, we need to put sex on the calendar.

Speaker 4 And you can be as spontaneous as you want if you plan it. once a week.
And if you have it more than once a week, that's great.

Speaker 4 But you should have a sex date once a week where you can really, you know, make it sacred, make it a time where you're both going to carve out that special time for each other, dress up, light candles.

Speaker 4 You know, don't go out to dinner or go to a movie. Like, stay home, have a sex date, make a plan, share your fantasies.

Speaker 4 I have a date night card deck that you put a card and it forces you to have a conversation about sex.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah, I love that. It's available on Amazon, right?

Speaker 4 I love that. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Tammy Nelson.

Speaker 3 And anything like that that you can do, you know, it doesn't have to be my card deck it could be anything that really sparks a conversation yeah because you know talking about sex makes you want to have sex yes I agree I always tell people like like you don't have to wait until you're in bed naked maybe like you're having dinner or like happy hour or something and you start talking about your fantasies a scene you saw in a movie or something that might

Speaker 3 spark the plug, right?

Speaker 4 That's a great suggestion.

Speaker 3 Thank you so much, Dr. Tammy.
I wish you a very speedy recovery and your husband as well.

Speaker 3 Thank you for being such a wonderful, good, good sport and doing Cat on the Loose. Although you're sick, you are really wonderful.
I love your work.

Speaker 3 And I'm going to put all her links, all her work on my website, Caton DeLuz, so you guys can find her because she's truly amazing. Thank you so much.
It was a huge honor having you. Thank you.

Speaker 3 You better be very, very fast. Guys, go have amazing safe sex out there.
I love you. See you soon.

Speaker 3 Big shout out to the Burrata

Speaker 3 House, one of my favorite casual dining places in the heart of West Hollywood.

Speaker 3 They make authentic, delicious, fresh Italian food, sandwiches, pasta, salads with the delicious, delicious, fresh Burrata on top on 161 South Crescent Heights.

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Speaker 3 So I want to give two big shout outs to people that also do podcasts and radio stations. It's such a tough business.
So big, big shout-outs to other podcasts that I love very, very, very much.

Speaker 3 And I always say there is room for everybody.

Speaker 3 I think we need to stop looking at each other as competition, competition, competition, and more looking at each other as co-workers, looking at each other as collaborators. Because,

Speaker 3 like I said, if we're authentic, we should all do our thing and there is space for everybody.

Speaker 3 So, if you guys love sports, I highly recommend check out Ira on Sports, one of the top sports podcasts in the nation by Ira Kaufman.

Speaker 3 Ira is a walking encyclopedia of sports, he follows sports no matter what it is: football, volleyball, tennis, golf, you name it, he's there up and down the country everywhere.

Speaker 3 Amazing guest interviews. He drops new episodes every Mondays.
He is incredible. He's in all the games.
He always has exclusive photos, exclusive videos on Instagram, on Twitter, Ara on Sports.

Speaker 3 I highly recommend you guys check it out. I love it.
And if you're a huge fan of country music, I love it. Check out Kick S Country Radio.
You can listen everywhere you go.

Speaker 3 You can get all the links through their Instagram, Kikas Country Music. So you can get your country vibe on the go.
Big shout out to them. They're my friends out of Texas, and I love them.

Speaker 3 Kikas, many, many kisses for you guys.