EZ DATING COACH MIKE GOLDSTEIN

Speaker 1 Here we go, new week, new episode of Cat on the Luz: Sex, Dating and Relationships, 100% Organic, Never Edited.

Speaker 1 And for those of you who are new to Cat on the Luz, welcome to our fast-growing worldwide cat kingdom, where we can speak freely about sex, dating, and relationships with no judgment, no filters.

Speaker 1 This podcast is a little bit different than your usual podcast because, like I said, it's 100% organic, meaning we do not edit our interviews at all, it's never scripted, it's a very real conversation, and it's not always in the studio.

Speaker 1 Many times, we record in real life,

Speaker 1 sometimes at the homes of our guests, sometimes in places where we interact with our guests, such as events, restaurants, etc.

Speaker 1 It is truly a window into our lives, and it is meant to open up conversations and invite everyone to join in.

Speaker 1 We have 24-7 open lines of communications for you guys via WhatsApp 1305-332-0338 via email contact at catondaluz.com and of course on social media at RioCat on the Luz and my social media Instagram catzamuto Z-A-M-M-U-T-O.

Speaker 1 So please feel free to chime in anytime. I love, love, love to hear from you guys.
And this is really for you. We have audiences now now in over 47 countries and growing.

Speaker 1 So, thank thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, every single one of you guys for listening. I love you, and I really hope you guys enjoyed this episode.

Speaker 1 My guest today, Mike Goldstein, also known as Easy Dating Coach, is a very successful private dating coach, public speaker, and author who has appeared on the Today Show, Reader's Digest, Shape magazine, and he's the number one online dating expert in the country who works with the data from multiple online dating sites to ensure his clients are in the top 5% of successful daters with results that have seen 83% of his clients obtain successful relationships.

Speaker 1 Mike's main point of focus is helping successful, happy women find love and commitment via personalized one-on-one coaching. I loved my my conversation with Mike.
I love his approach.

Speaker 1 I hope you guys really, really enjoyed this episode.

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Speaker 2 Okay, Mike Goldstein, easy dating coach. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 Thank you so much for doing this.

Speaker 2 Obviously, I have a million questions. You're a guy.
We are so confused when it comes to dating and how the mind of men work these days. Are you ready to try to help us out? Do my best.

Speaker 2 So, the first question is actually mine because I was looking at your YouTube channel and the name of your platforms and the name. You have over 35,000 subscribers on YouTube.

Speaker 2 You do dating coach for women.

Speaker 2 And the name of the channel is EZ

Speaker 2 Dating.

Speaker 2 Is dating ever easy? Can dating ever be easy? Please tell us the truth.

Speaker 3 Well, I've been doing this professionally for 10 years, and myself, I've been dating for 23 years.

Speaker 3 I think it's freaking hard.

Speaker 2 Thank you for being honest.

Speaker 2 At least you didn't say yes, it's so easy.

Speaker 2 Nope. It's tough.
Okay, good. It's tough.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 So even with a coach, it's tough.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I mean, I'm very fortunate in that I try to, I think, like, there's coaches out there that try to

Speaker 3 like do self-work and make you a better version of yourself. I don't do that.
I don't have that skill set.

Speaker 3 I'm a strategy guy, and I take women that have already done self-work and just want to be put in front of a lot of good men through an online dating system.

Speaker 3 So for me, at this point, where I've been partnered with Match, OK, Cupid, and EHAMI for over a decade, I just give them a system to put good men in front of them. For me, that's pretty easy.

Speaker 3 It's like a science experiment. It's number games.

Speaker 2 That I can do. It's a numbers game.

Speaker 2 For me, yes. Oh, okay.
I got it.

Speaker 2 So now Valentine's Day is coming up.

Speaker 2 Let me ask you a question. And I want to tell you a super quick story that it's a true story that happened to me.

Speaker 2 And I started the podcast four years ago and this story happened just before I started the podcast and it kind of inspired me to start the podcast because I needed to vent

Speaker 2 and I'm gonna tell the story again super quickly and then you're gonna understand because it's related to the question

Speaker 2 I was dating someone, I was married for 14 years, got divorced, blah blah blah, and jumped back into the dating game. Obviously, I was so naive when it came to dating.
I knew nothing about dating.

Speaker 2 I started dating someone and it developed into a committed relationship, monogamous, and I really liked the guy. We were dating for like maybe six months, I think, at the time.

Speaker 2 And on Valentine's Day, he was a very successful executive. I was living in Miami at the time.
On Valentine's Day, he told me he was super busy.

Speaker 2 He was entertaining some executives from out of town, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So he was only going to be able to see me at night.

Speaker 2 So he was like, okay, go to my place, wear some sexy lingerie, whatever, order some dinner, and wait for me there. So I did as told, I was his girlfriend.

Speaker 2 Cutting the story super short, you guys can go back to the first season and listen to the episode Valentine's Day from Hell.

Speaker 2 I was

Speaker 2 at his place wearing sexy lingerie, feeling sorry for the guy, thinking, oh, poor baby, he's working all day. Turns out he was spending the entire day with his ex-girlfriend.

Speaker 2 whining, dining her, giving her expensive gifts like Cartier bracelets, in bed with her, having sex with her.

Speaker 2 then he finally got home to me at 10 p.m jumped in bed with me without showering and the only reason why i found out about it is because she started texting me proving to me what had happened

Speaker 2 after that i forgave him

Speaker 2 dated him yeah i know you're gonna understand the question in a second dated him an extra year

Speaker 2 to find out on my birthday the following year, March 6th, he was cheating on me on my birthday.

Speaker 2 The same thing with some woman at my favorite restaurant because my friend saw him and called me and said, Hey, this guy's here.

Speaker 2 So, this is the question. Nowadays, of course, I laugh at the story.
I think, what the fuck was I thinking?

Speaker 2 Why, what kind of a woman would be so stupid to put up with this shit, to forgive like a cheater, a womanizer, such a creep? What was I thinking? But this is the question for you.

Speaker 2 So many women do that.

Speaker 2 They date losers, they put up with this behavior, they accept this behavior, and they come up with excuses, oh, but I love him, oh, but he's so nice, and they stay in shitty relationships because they think that's the best they can do or whatever, they justify it.

Speaker 2 And I get messages from women from all over the world. Do you know why women act like that and they accept this kind of situations?

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 2 I do.

Speaker 3 I've done it.

Speaker 2 Ah, thank you.

Speaker 3 Yeah, so Kat, I had a fiancé back when I lived in New York, and I stayed with her too long,

Speaker 3 way too long. And we were never going to get married, and it was awful when we broke up.

Speaker 3 But I think the reason we do it is when we are

Speaker 3 when we enter the relationship, we didn't do enough work on ourselves to decide as a single person,

Speaker 3 I like myself, I like this life.

Speaker 3 So when you like yourself, you like this life, then you get in partnership, the moment it's not better than your single life, the moment you can throw that away.

Speaker 3 And then you just go back to your single life. You're like,

Speaker 3 this is great.

Speaker 3 Let me go back to that.

Speaker 2 I love that. That is so true.
So what happened with you and your fiancé?

Speaker 3 I mean, I was a mess when I dated her. I had bad boundaries.
I was a people pleaser.

Speaker 2 Same.

Speaker 3 And I let her do whatever she wanted and pushed me around.

Speaker 3 And eventually, you know, we would argue, but eventually I'd acquiesce to whatever she needed. So I lost myself.
And it was, we had,

Speaker 3 we had had us she had her thing i didn't have my thing at all like i totally lost all the stuff i loved and i became miserable and so i had to go do some work on myself to find boundaries to stop people pleasing and then i could re-enter the dating world so how did you figure out you were going to be a good dating coach

Speaker 3 um

Speaker 3 I mean, this was 10 years, over 10 years ago, but I just kept getting people into relationships.

Speaker 3 In terms of some of the skill sets around that, I think I became a dating coach to work on the shit that I needed to work on.

Speaker 3 And it was a great process for me to get better at life.

Speaker 3 But at the core of it, when it came down to having a system to get people in front of good options,

Speaker 3 I think even from the beginning, I was one of the best in the country at that. I was very good at that.

Speaker 2 You just had an instinct to figure out how to match people?

Speaker 2 Or were you matching your friends? How did it start?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, I don't want to say I'm that smart.

Speaker 3 I'm good at stealing stuff, though.

Speaker 3 My soccer coach at the time was this English guy, bald, English accent, super charming. Basically, it was James Bond.
And he showed up in a silver, golden eye Z3.

Speaker 3 And he would have two or three beautiful women a week in his car. And we're like, how the heck is he doing this?

Speaker 3 So then he told us his online dating system.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, all right, let me see if I could make some tweaks to that, make it even better, and then use it.

Speaker 3 And all of a sudden, I was getting people dates like crazy using his system with a few tweaks.

Speaker 3 So much so that that even got me on the Today Show where they're like,

Speaker 3 how are you so successful at online dating? Everyone stinks at this.

Speaker 3 I shared my method. And then since then, they've shared some of their

Speaker 3 analytics. So now everything I do online is based on science, is based on millions of data points, and now we just totally optimize online dating.

Speaker 2 Okay, so based on science, but dating, I mean,

Speaker 2 I understand you can use all the science in the world, but it's still like most of it is the human

Speaker 2 part of it, right? Because you can control human emotions, you can control how people react, you can control a lot of it. So you still need to have

Speaker 2 the component of knowing, right, this person is going to connect to this person, is going to connect to that person, you still need to know your client, and you still need to know

Speaker 2 how to connect people. It doesn't matter how great the science is.

Speaker 3 I mean, you're totally right. I mean, my friend was the director of analytics at eHarmony, and he spent countless years trying to figure out an algorithm to get people together.
Right.

Speaker 3 And he came up with basically it's 50-50. You could could use our system or you could not.

Speaker 2 It's a crapshoot. Because look, I'm going to be honest with you.
I've tried every dating app on the planet because I do the podcast, right? So I got to test everything.

Speaker 2 And yeah, this e-harmony and all this stuff, I think it's like a crapshoot. Like they ask you 10 million questions, but 99% of the time,

Speaker 2 they put like these dudes in, oh, this is a perfect match. No, no, no.
And I look at

Speaker 2 the guys, I'm like, are you joking? You're joking, right? That this is a perfect match for me. It doesn't work.

Speaker 3 let me help you with how we can actually optimize it yes please

Speaker 2 we can use all the help in the world

Speaker 3 okay perfect so what we do that actually does produce objective results yes is we're gonna message 50 guys asking them on a date and i suspect when we ask 50 guys out 12 of them are gonna say yes like how do you find those 50 guys We just send blast messages basically on match.com for folks like 45 and older.

Speaker 3 So we're off the apps, we're on match.com, we're messaging 50 guys, we're saying, Do you want to go on a date? 12 about 12 say yes.

Speaker 3 And to your point, from the 12, we just pick one.

Speaker 3 And now we repeat this six to eight times, and we find someone that we like.

Speaker 3 So that's where the math and the science come in. But to your point, you still got to go on the dates, you still got to see if you actually like them.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 okay, but before you do that, so let's say someone is your client. Let's say I'm your client.
Do you ask me like what I want in a person, right?

Speaker 3 Oh, absolutely. But I'm also like, we're sharing a Zoom screen.
So I'll do it with you. So if you and I are partnered, we're, you know, we look, we send our 50 messages to, we don't care who.

Speaker 3 The 12 of them come back, the 12 we care about. And the 12, you and I are going to look at those profiles, look at those messages, and decide who we think makes sense for a date.

Speaker 2 Oh, I see. And you always pick from match.com?

Speaker 3 If you're 45 and over, I would say 100%.

Speaker 2 Why is that?

Speaker 3 So, unlike the apps like Hinge and Bumble, there should be more in the profile for us to make an educated decision.

Speaker 3 It's paid

Speaker 3 and typically matches, I want to say, 88% college educated.

Speaker 3 So it's a little more affluent, more educated, and typically my client base is affluent and well-educated, so that's what we're looking for.

Speaker 2 And if it's a younger client, what would you recommend? Like if it's a girl in their 20s, their 30s?

Speaker 3 Definitely Hinge.

Speaker 2 Definitely Hinge. Why is that?

Speaker 3 So I think the two big ones right now that people are using...

Speaker 3 At least let's talk United States are Hinge and Bumble. Yeah.
And Hinge is, if you're looking for a relationship.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we're talking about people looking for a relationship.

Speaker 3 Okay, then Hinge is a little more serious than Bumble in terms of looking for a relationship.

Speaker 3 So I would get them on Hinge.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so let me ask you something about dating apps.

Speaker 2 My opinion, okay,

Speaker 2 I think, of course, there are great things about dating apps. You can meet people that otherwise you would never cross paths with.

Speaker 3 Sure.

Speaker 2 However, I think

Speaker 2 because

Speaker 2 there's so much availability,

Speaker 2 dating apps have transformed a lot of men, and I'm talking about mature, successful men in their 40s, in their 50s, in their 60s, into immature

Speaker 2 men that are behaving like teenagers again. I've dated them, a lot of my girlfriends dated them.
They like literally swiping girls like they're ordering pizza on DoorDash.

Speaker 2 I say that all the time on the podcast because they're like, they say, oh, yeah, I want a relationship But then they see all the girls like oh my god Look at all these girls They like me and they start behaving like yeah teenagers So it becomes like a very difficult game quote unquote because they're saying they want a relationship But many times they full of shit.

Speaker 2 They're just like feeding their ego like my ex-boyfriend literally said that to me when I met him We met on Bumble and he looked me in the eyes and he's like, I'm so ready for a relationship.

Speaker 2 Blah, blah, blah. You're the girl for me.

Speaker 2 He was all over my life. We were in a relationship for months and months and months.
And then I found out he was still on Bumbo, and that's the excuse he gave to me.

Speaker 2 He's like, Oh, I don't really want to go out with any of these girls, but you know, I was married for 20 years, and just seeing that all these women want to go out with me, it's feeding my ego.

Speaker 2 And I was like, Oh, I want to vomit. You know, a 50-something-year-old dude, like acting like a 19-year-old, like I totally lost, lost like, you know, everything.

Speaker 2 Like, I thought, I can't believe this guy is acting like that. But, but I see that a lot, and my girlfriends see that a lot.

Speaker 2 And it's really frustrating because we don't know who is serious about a relationship and who is not on these dating apps. Do you agree? Do you see that behavior a lot?

Speaker 2 Do your clients complain about that?

Speaker 3 I mean, of course. I mean, if you think about it, the folks that want a relationship, a lot of them are in relationship.

Speaker 3 So the people that are single and consistently single, it's because they're playing games, they're messing about, whatever.

Speaker 3 But if you have a good strategy and the proper dating cadence, you're going to figure out if a guy likes you and if he's really ready for commitment.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 what do you mean if you have a good strategy? What would be a good strategy?

Speaker 2 You're going to hate me for this. No, please.
We like honesty. We like to learn.
I'm not going to hate you, I promise.

Speaker 3 All right. I listened to one of your podcasts and you dumped on this idea.

Speaker 2 No, please tell me.

Speaker 2 Look, I'm not an expert. Like I said, I do the podcast because I'm learning like everybody else.
Tell me, please.

Speaker 3 All right. So this is really for folks that have trouble figuring out, like,

Speaker 3 is this the right person? Like, so I built this basically for myself. Okay.
I would date and I would have sex, you know, for the most part, pretty early, date three, four, five, five, whatever.

Speaker 3 And then I would be like, sometimes after the end of day two, I'd be like, this is my partner.

Speaker 2 I'm going to marry her. Like 100%, this is my wife.
Guilty. I've done that before.

Speaker 3 I've done it a bunch of times.

Speaker 2 Same guilty.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So I'm like, this is my wife.

Speaker 3 And then it ends up we break up.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 I know I stink of this. And so if other people are having trouble, I like taking the hormones out of it.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 let's, I'm a, I love science, I love math. Let's understand this: when we have sex, we produce oxytocin, and there's confusion.
We think it's different between men and women, it's actually not.

Speaker 3 I'm a man, you're a woman. We produce the exact same amount of oxytocin we have sex, but something very different happens between us.
Because I have 10 times more testosterone than you do,

Speaker 3 my testosterone almost blocks the oxytocin from doing what it does, which makes it a bonding hormone. So I have sex and I literally don't feel any more bonded to you.

Speaker 3 Versus when a woman has sex, the oxytocin, because she doesn't have the testosterone, goes wild in her body and she feels very bonded. Yeah.

Speaker 3 So for a lot of my clients, women, when they're having sex, they feel super bonded to a guy. And if we had sex after knowing them, think about it two, three dates, that's four, five hours.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 We're like, oh, I feel so bonded to this guy.

Speaker 2 He's my husband.

Speaker 3 But it's really just the oxytocin, and we don't really know this guy. It's been five hours.

Speaker 3 So I find that if we go slower, make them continue to court you.

Speaker 3 The guy feels like he's earned the prize. He's like, oh, I got it.
I got her. This is amazing.
I don't want to throw her back into the pond. Like, I want her.

Speaker 3 And then women get to be a little more discerning without the oxytocin cocktail through them.

Speaker 2 However, yes, I've talked about it a million times on the podcast because it's all over the map.

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Speaker 2 I have guy friends that have told me this is a very dangerous game because, yeah, guys are hunters like a lion.

Speaker 2 They will play this game. Like, they will, oh, yeah, I'm going to keep dating, dating, dating until I can take her to bed.

Speaker 2 And once I take her to bed, if it's just for that reason, yeah, then they let go.

Speaker 2 So, and I had one of my best guy friends, he came to the podcast years ago and he's like, oh, yeah, if she's going to withhold the vagina hostage, sure, go for it.

Speaker 2 I'll fuck somebody else and I'll keep dating her until she lets me bang her. So I understand what you're saying, but I think it's a double-edged sword, you know?

Speaker 3 I'm 100% with you on this. And I get the male perspective too.
And I'm a person that wants to have sex. When I like someone, I'm like, let's have sex.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 3 but let me explain what happened with my current girlfriend.

Speaker 3 At some point somewhat early on, I'm like, I would like to have sex. Like, she's hot.

Speaker 2 How long have you guys been together?

Speaker 3 Like, 10 months now.

Speaker 2 Oh, okay. So, anyway, she's really cute.
I saw a video you posted on, I think she's the one on Instagram. You guys posted.
Yeah, she's really cute.

Speaker 3 Very cute. So, at some point, I want to have sex with her pretty early on.

Speaker 2 May I ask when? Like, how many dates in Chue?

Speaker 3 That's a good question. I don't quite remember.

Speaker 2 I'm sure you do.

Speaker 2 Come on. Come on.
Probably like

Speaker 3 date

Speaker 3 three, four, five, somewhere in there. Five, six.
I don't know. I know that on date two, I tried to kiss her and she said no.

Speaker 2 Really?

Speaker 3 I remember that one.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 But what's amazing about this is it allowed us to have a dialogue. So when she didn't want to kiss me,

Speaker 3 I'm like,

Speaker 3 should I, like, does she like me? Like, I don't want to pursue someone that's not into me. So we then had a dialogue.
She's like, I'm really into you. I just want to take things slow.

Speaker 2 I'm like, all right, cool.

Speaker 3 I'm like, I'll wait till you are pining for a kiss and you have to grab my face.

Speaker 2 Like, I will wait.

Speaker 3 Let's go. I like you too.
So, let's give it a go. And in regards to sex, like

Speaker 3 eventually she said, I don't want to have sex for a while. I want to take this slow, make sure we get it right.
And if because I really liked her, I was like, oh, that's fine.

Speaker 3 And because of my past, I was also willing because I'm like, I've messed this up so many times. Let's go slow, but I'm still very sexual.
I like to have sex. We did other things.

Speaker 3 And, you know, that allowed, you know, to the guys you were talking about, they're like, well, I need to have sex with someone else. Well, if we're doing other things, we're satisfied.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 But I think the key there is what you just said. I liked her.

Speaker 2 I think that's the key. If you like someone, that's my opinion.
And I've had, like I said, so many experts come to Cat on the Loose and they have opinions on all, you know, different spectrums.

Speaker 2 Some matchmakers come here and they're like, Don't have sex for six months, don't have sex until they put a ring on your finger.

Speaker 2 And, you know, it varies, but I think

Speaker 2 it's here. If the guy likes you, it doesn't matter if you're going to have sex on the first date, the third date, the fifth date.

Speaker 2 I was married for 14 years, and I had sex with my husband, I think the second or the third date, and he was madly in love with me.

Speaker 2 And and and I've, you know, and obviously,

Speaker 2 after I've been divorced, like it's been a shit show, and I've tried all kinds of different

Speaker 2 theories, but I think the keys, like you said, this girl, you really liked her, so it didn't matter what she did, your mind is focused on this girl. So maybe it's not the timing, maybe it's like

Speaker 2 the mind has to be into the person.

Speaker 3 I mean

Speaker 3 you're right if a guy really likes you you could have sex on the first date and you guys are going to be together forever if it's meant to be

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 for a lot of us we're not good at deciding and for a lot of us when we get oxytocin it messes us messes up our decision making so for a but it didn't mess up yours once you guys had sex

Speaker 3 Well, we had sex so late. It was

Speaker 3 20, which I've never waited that long.

Speaker 2 So this girl waited and waited and waited. She was smart.

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Speaker 2 smart. Well, like I said, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 Okay, wait. I'm gonna bring a little reinforcement.
I'm gonna bring in my friend Nellie. She's another matchmaker, but she's she's a Nellie, come in, come in, check out on the loose.

Speaker 2 I want to expand this conversation. I need two experts because this conversation is very important.

Speaker 2 Hi, Nellie. Thank you for jumping in.

Speaker 2 Thanks for inviting me back. I need two experts here to help me figure this out.

Speaker 2 I think

Speaker 2 in this girl's case, she made you wait 20 days, but your mind was like all this waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting made you like her more and more and more and more.

Speaker 2 So what is your opinion, Nelly? Do you think

Speaker 2 this is the deal?

Speaker 2 Like when you're dating a guy, if you make him wait and wait and wait and give him a little bit of foreplay, foreplay, foreplay, maybe that's the key to building up like a long-term relationship and keep the guy interested in you?

Speaker 4 I always say if you're looking for a relationship, the key is to establish emotional intimacy before physical intimacy. And for some people, emotional intimacy might be two dates that are really long.

Speaker 4 For some people, it might be two months, you know, and that's where it gets nuanced and it's more individualistic.

Speaker 4 But I certainly think for men,

Speaker 4 whether they are conscious about this or not, and I know there's a lot of varied perspectives on this. I think if you as a woman put out too early,

Speaker 4 a lot of men will go to why buy the cow when she's getting the milk for free. Isn't this a

Speaker 4 position, guys? That being said, that being said,

Speaker 4 I think if a woman is a quality woman and a man sees her value,

Speaker 4 he might still be able to get to the emotional intimacy part if the physical intimacy is provided earlier on. So I think it depends on the woman.

Speaker 4 I think it depends on the man, but I think it doesn't hurt to prolong it.

Speaker 4 And, you know, if that's what your goal is, a serious relationship.

Speaker 3 I think from a dating coach perspective, when I have my clients,

Speaker 3 if a guy can consistently show up and take a woman on six dates plus without him getting laid,

Speaker 3 most of the time he likes you.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Because let's be honest, any guy that's worth, you know, is Wayne Gold, can go get laid. And so if he can go out there and get laid on date two, date three, date four,

Speaker 3 and he's just looking to get laid,

Speaker 3 he's not going to make it to date five, date six with you because that's inefficient.

Speaker 2 Why would he do that? Because, like I said,

Speaker 2 believe it or not, for a lot of guys, it's the game

Speaker 2 it is the it's the chase it's the game oh i'm going to get this girl to it happens it has happened to my girlfriends it has happened to like so many girls i know one of my best friends she was dating this dude like that seemed the i met them i met the guy it seemed like he was the the whole package you know and he kept taking her on date after date after date nice dinners nice restaurant this and that and then and that i think they went they dated for like two months maybe she wasn't gonna bad I mean there are adults yeah right but then finally and it broke my heart then finally one night she's like okay I think I'm gonna spend the night at his house they spend the night at his house they have breakfast the next morning and everything then that night he calls like oh you know let's just be friends I'm not feeling like what a fucking creep piece of shit you know but it happens believe it or not yeah I mean I was pretty pretty shocked because I've heard you talk about that stuff a lot.

Speaker 3 Like, I couldn't imagine putting in all this effort to get laid and then not being like, hmm, I'm horny four days later or three days later. Let me get laid again.

Speaker 3 Like, why would you just do all that work and then not do it a few more times?

Speaker 2 That's what I'm telling you. It's

Speaker 2 and yes, it breaks my heart because I feel for a lot of men, and I don't know if you don't, you would never get this message on your social media.

Speaker 4 So, with your friend, for example, if this guy invested 20 dates in her i just kind of feel like she must have sucked him

Speaker 4 but i don't know i mean i don't know i don't have a rigid rule i i think the people who say wait three dates wait four dates wait five dates like

Speaker 4 it does everyone's different you know but really emotional intimacy is i think the key that's what i would say

Speaker 3 i mean some men are superficial we need i mean we're in los Angeles. Like, he may have, if he has, and we know men have 25% more receptors from their eye to the brain than women do.

Speaker 3 So perhaps when he unwrapped the package and

Speaker 3 he just didn't like what he saw, and he's like, well, I'm going to get laid.

Speaker 3 Like, he was like, all right, well, let's understand men. Let's not say it's right or wrong, but this is what it is.
Men, probably, most of them, they're like, first prize is falling in love.

Speaker 3 I would love to be in love. That would feel amazing.
But But second prize of getting laid, that's a decent second prize.

Speaker 3 So maybe he was like, oh, I don't think I'm going to be in love, but I'll get my second prize.

Speaker 4 You know what's interesting?

Speaker 2 That's a good way to put it. Yeah.
That's very honest. That's a good way to put it.

Speaker 4 I've had, I think, an interesting experience even dating in LA where men will sometimes not even try to sleep with me. It's weird.

Speaker 2 Really? Yes.

Speaker 4 Really?

Speaker 4 Yes. I've gone on dates with some guys and I'll like them and I'll be like into it, you know? And they will

Speaker 4 just reject or friend zone me and not even try.

Speaker 2 Because they know you're looking for a serious relationship and you want to get married.

Speaker 4 Because you tell everybody. But wouldn't you at least want to hit it?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 3 Well, like, are you advertising that you're going to give it to them quickly?

Speaker 2 No, she tells them, you tell them

Speaker 2 you're ready for a serious relationship and you want to get married.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, I think that that's usually the impression, but I'm also, I'm selective with the guys. I choose marriage-minded men.

Speaker 3 Yeah, so it's perfectly logical. Like, if I, like, if I go on a date with someone, I find them attractive, and I'd love to have sex with them, but I know I wouldn't date them.

Speaker 3 The moment they're like, well, it's going to take a lot of work.

Speaker 2 Well, I don't want to do a lot of work. What if it won't take that much work?

Speaker 3 I mean, if it's not that much work, but once again, like,

Speaker 3 we're much,

Speaker 3 a lot of men are more excited about an opportunity of first prize, which is falling in love.

Speaker 2 You really think so? Yeah. I thought they think the first prize is like, okay, I just want to get laid.

Speaker 3 I mean, that's a very.

Speaker 4 I would echo what you say. I think a lot of men, the concept of falling in love is something that feels very exciting and rare.
Really?

Speaker 2 I'm happy to hear that.

Speaker 2 I really am happy to hear that.

Speaker 3 Until I was maybe through

Speaker 3 the first 24 years of my life, I was like, she's hot. I want to have sex.
And that's the only thing that really worked for me was my eyesight. I was like, are they attractive?

Speaker 3 Do I want to have sex with them?

Speaker 3 But eventually, it's like once you have enough sex, you're like, I would really like to have a good conversation and be able to hang out with this person and not want to like stab my ears out during the date with how boring this and awfulness is.

Speaker 2 I know. So, that's the best part, right? Of being in a relationship.

Speaker 2 Of course, great sex is so important, but waking up with a person, traveling, spending the weekend, waking up together, these things are so important. Now, both of you mentioned LA, LA, LA.

Speaker 2 I don't think dating

Speaker 2 good people, bad people, players, have anything to do with geography. Do you? Because,

Speaker 2 I mean, I lived in Miami. I think Miami is a shit show.

Speaker 2 I have friends in New York that complain about dating in New York. Do you think, like,

Speaker 2 certain areas are worse than others when it comes to dating?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 You do. What do you think, Mike?

Speaker 3 I mean, I've helped people all over the world and especially in the U.S.

Speaker 3 There's a lot of variables that affect dating. Specifically, like New York City, it's four educated women to one man.
Oh, really? Yeah, so in New York City, if you're a guy, it's a gold mine.

Speaker 2 Really?

Speaker 3 And believe it or not, L.A. is much better for women.
There's more men here. And San Diego, the same.
Actually, if you go down the east coast of the U.S.,

Speaker 3 it's mostly great for men where there's more single women. And on the west coast, it flip-flops and there's more single men.

Speaker 2 That's interesting. Thanks for sharing that.
Yeah, I did not know that, but

Speaker 2 that's good news.

Speaker 4 I would say geography definitely plays into the difficulty level because when you're in a big city, there's probably more transient people.

Speaker 4 There's perhaps just

Speaker 4 more abundance of single people. Like in a lot of middle America, especially suburban middle America,

Speaker 4 you're going to find more married couples, more high school sweethearts. And so I've worked with people who live in remote areas and

Speaker 4 it's easier to find marriage-minded people who are there because there aren't a lot of people who are single in general. And the people who are there, they're more serious.

Speaker 4 Whereas in a place like LA, people sometimes just date to date. You know, you've got dinner daters, you've got people who are, you know, just...
they want the trophy girlfriend or whatever.

Speaker 4 So I just think it's more competitive in big cities, but it depends on the individual.

Speaker 2 There are more options too, you know.

Speaker 4 There are more options, but like you said, we're living in a bit of a fast food dating culture. And so I think more options sometimes you have

Speaker 4 a little bit of like people go into like analysis paralysis or they have paradox of choice, right? Where it's like so many options and you always want to, you know, see if the grass is greener.

Speaker 4 Whereas in other places too, that perhaps are also more faith-driven, you might have people dating with more wholesome values.

Speaker 4 No, that's my take.

Speaker 2 Let me ask you another question,

Speaker 2 Mike.

Speaker 2 Do you think

Speaker 2 somebody that is dating,

Speaker 2 because I know a lot of girls do that,

Speaker 2 somebody that is dating a guy who is afraid of commitment or like a fuck boy

Speaker 2 or a guy that, you know,

Speaker 2 doesn't want to get married or doesn't want to move in together or is not sure about what he wants. Is it possible to change a man?

Speaker 2 Look at, I guess, if you are listening to the episode, go watch the video episode on YouTube or Spotify right now so you see his face.

Speaker 2 Please.

Speaker 2 Because your face already answered the question, but can you please?

Speaker 2 Because I get this message all the time, and I don't know, but is it possible to change a guy, slowly convince the guy to be the man you want, or forget it?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 3 I mean, this goes into my point earlier of if we were went slower

Speaker 3 and saw his true intentions,

Speaker 3 we wouldn't be in this situation.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 Like, we've got to do the pre-work. The pre-work is, I've got a decent life.
Like, I don't love my life like it's good. Like, I got a good job, good friends, good family.
All right, my life's good.

Speaker 3 Now I want to add a guy, and I'm not going to put up with this shit.

Speaker 3 Like, he's got to be legit because I have a pretty good single life. I'm not giving that up unless this guy's the real deal.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 So, if someone is dating a guy out there who you know he's not going to, he told you he doesn't want to get married, or he told you he doesn't want to have kids, or he told you he doesn't want to be in a committed relationship, there is no point in staying and thinking he's going to change for you.

Speaker 2 You don't think men change.

Speaker 3 Absolutely not.

Speaker 2 He's not changing. Absolutely not.

Speaker 3 All right, well, fine. Let me be fair.
Since I'm a math person.

Speaker 2 You're a math person.

Speaker 3 And if you're a math person listening or watching, 98%,

Speaker 3 I would say, he's not changing. And don't think you're the 2%.

Speaker 3 Everyone thinks they're the 2%.

Speaker 4 Everyone thinks they're the exception and not the rule.

Speaker 3 The chance, like, I've been doing this for 10 years. I've talked to thousands and thousands of people.
I think I've seen a flip-flop.

Speaker 3 If I think back maybe once or twice, and I've talked to like everyone who calls me is like, well, almost everyone who calls me has this situation.

Speaker 3 I got this guy, and he kind of wants to commit, or he doesn't want to get married. Yeah.
Dump him. They don't want to hear that.
They don't want to hear that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 No, I know, same because I get messages like that from people from all over the world.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 99% of the time, women saying, oh my God, he loves me. He's going to change for me.
And I'm like,

Speaker 2 I'm sure he will not. I think it's such a waste of time thinking that somebody's going to change for you.
I think it's the biggest waste of energy that anybody

Speaker 2 can do. I'm glad you said that because you're the expert.
Do you agree, Nellie?

Speaker 4 Yeah, and I'll just add to that sentiment as well. I think self-awareness is really key as a woman.

Speaker 4 If you are dealing with a man who has commitment issues, you know, ask yourself, why am I attracted to people who have that avoid and attachment style?

Speaker 4 What is it in me that feels I need this person so badly, right? It goes back to feeling whole within yourself and feeling like you're good with or without someone.

Speaker 4 And when you have that anxious attachment style that's, you know, attracting you to toxic men or attracting you to someone who's commitment phobic or thinking you're going to change someone.

Speaker 4 Is that coming from something deeper?

Speaker 4 And I think that's why it's really important to become a version of yourself that is operating on your highest vibrational frequency, not to sound too woo-woo or hippie-dippy for people, but essentially becoming, again,

Speaker 4 solid within so that you can find someone who is also solid and you can attract in a healthy relationship.

Speaker 2 But sometimes guys change in terms of like, let's say, like in your case, like you said, you had a fiancé and everything was going wrong, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 Many times men will change in terms of like if they find the right person for them. Like they will play the field, play the field, you know, they will go out on a bunch of dates.

Speaker 2 But if they meet the one woman, it's like, okay, that's it. I like this one girl.
They might change their behavior for that one girl.

Speaker 3 Yes, but they make that decision instantly when they meet her, not later once he's already had sex.

Speaker 3 He's made that decision on date two, probably,

Speaker 3 on what category he thinks you're in.

Speaker 3 Like, if he's taking you on dates, a lot of the time he's like, all right, this is probably a relationship. And at some point, he may downgrade you to, oh, I just want to have sex.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 But once he downgrades you into sex, the chances of him then upgrading you back are very small.

Speaker 2 Like, it's not going to happen.

Speaker 3 Yeah. But to your point, absolutely.
There's men out there that are just. I'm going to go have sex and or I'm going to go meet girls and this is going to be fun.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 And then all of a sudden they run into this woman and they're like, whoa, she's amazing and she's so amazing he's like well i don't want to meet other women i just want to focus on this yeah that happens yeah but this other nonsense so unlikely i know and it's it's so heartbreaking that that so many people insist on that like with this dream that the person is going to change for them it reminds me of that famous scene in when harry met sally where sally was with her i think it was her ex-fiancé or a boyfriend and she goes it's not that he didn't want to get married it's that he didn't want to get married to me

Speaker 2 because she found a guy right after that's always the answer the end of that phrase right i don't want to be in a relationship i don't want to be in a relationship with you because with the right person

Speaker 2 we want to do everything right with the right person you want to have sex with the right person you want to be in a relationship with the right person you want to get married with the right person right

Speaker 2 now we were talking about before we run out of time oh my god this goes by so fast we were talking about dating apps it's a little bit of a shit show out there and everything do you have any recommendations people out there listening, if you don't want to deal with the dating apps,

Speaker 2 if you want to,

Speaker 2 any other way that you can potentially meet partners?

Speaker 2 You can potentially date?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I'm all about strategies.

Speaker 2 Strategies.

Speaker 3 And I'm also like...

Speaker 2 I like strategies. I never tried strategies before.

Speaker 3 I'm freaking lazy. And so all I do is look for competitive advantages.
So what I would suggest to people.

Speaker 2 We can try that.

Speaker 3 if you have a lot of social skills, like if you're not a social person, don't do this.

Speaker 3 But go to Whole Foods,

Speaker 3 go to a park, go to Barnes and Nobles,

Speaker 3 and just go talk to people. Now, if that sounds scary, what I used to do, this was like nine years ago, I went to Chelsea Market in New York City, which is just people zooming by you.

Speaker 3 And I had this one woman, and what she would do, Isabella, she was an animal. She would just wave at guys.

Speaker 3 And so as they were coming by, she'd give her this big wave.

Speaker 3 And men would do one of three things.

Speaker 3 And if you're on the podcast, I'll try to describe this. But they'd either

Speaker 3 kind of quasi-wave back and then look behind them and like,

Speaker 3 is she waving at me? And then she'd point at them and be like, yeah, you, and then wave again.

Speaker 3 And then what this wave would do would then get us a yes or no. Then the guy would either wave back, and that meant he was open to communicating, and she'd be like, Come here.

Speaker 3 Or he would like put his head down and do that New York thing.

Speaker 2 I don't know if I would

Speaker 2 do that. Yeah, it takes a lot of work.

Speaker 3 Well, let me explain how successful. I know, no one wants to do this, but it's so successful.

Speaker 3 I used to do this at a bar. I'd hang out with my buddies.
I'd wave at 10 women, and three of them would give me the big wave.

Speaker 3 And then when I was ready, I was like, all right, these are the three women that want to talk to me in the bar. The other seven don't.
Great.

Speaker 2 These are the three I'm going to talk to.

Speaker 4 I like when guys do that, and guys are very shy about approaching women in public very shy at least here in LA do you agree yeah I think the key to dating is almost the same as the key to investing diversification it's great to be on the apps don't put all your eggs in one basket

Speaker 4 to your point go out in person, make an effort to plant yourself in social environments and also environments where you're going to meet like-minded people.

Speaker 4 Like if you want someone active, we live in California, go on a hike. If you want someone who's a skier, go to a ski resort.
You know, if you want someone healthy, Whole Foods, Erwan,

Speaker 4 you know, seek out places and environments where you're going to meet people who have shared interests and

Speaker 4 think about where your ideal partner might be on a weekend or on a weeknight.

Speaker 2 I like that idea. If somebody wants to work with a coach and your strategies and your numbers gain, that sounds like an interesting approach as well.
How do they find you?

Speaker 3 Yeah, my website is the letter E, the letter Z, easy datingcoach.com. And then if you want free stuff, I have, I don't know.

Speaker 2 Everybody likes free stuff.

Speaker 3 I have 160,000 followers on TikTok, another 40 on YouTube. So

Speaker 3 go watch some free videos. But also, I have like a whole section on my website called free content.
And I have like a lot of things on there. And then I have my book coming out in the next week.

Speaker 3 Probably by the time you put this out, it'll be out.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 So you can get the book.

Speaker 2 What is it called?

Speaker 3 Successful Dating for Women women over 50.

Speaker 2 Congratulations. That's amazing.
Thank you. So you have a lot of happy, successful clients that find their perfect match.
Yeah. Okay, that's very encouraging.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Never give up on love.
So all the single ladies out there that might be a little sad, discouraged from dating, especially Valentine's season, what do you say?

Speaker 3 I mean, this is the best time to date. We know that everyone joins online dating January, February.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 This is a great time.

Speaker 3 And to speak about competitive advantages, do

Speaker 3 online dating differently than everyone else. Everyone is looking at the picture and the picture makes the decision.
Take that out of your decision making.

Speaker 3 Instead, make the profile 85% of your decision.

Speaker 3 If you do that,

Speaker 3 You will start getting access to men or women that actually make sense to you versus just making the decision based based on the picture.

Speaker 2 Because unfortunately, most people put the shittiest pictures, the crappiest pictures. They don't know how to choose good pictures, right? Especially guys, right?

Speaker 3 Oh, guys are awful. They'll be like

Speaker 3 super close up.

Speaker 2 Stop

Speaker 2 posting pictures with the fish guys and the weird animals.

Speaker 4 I lived in Florida for nine years, so I am so not bothered by a man holding a fish.

Speaker 2 I'm so bothered. Like, look at my fish.

Speaker 4 Look at my fish. If it's a massive tuna, then that's impressive.

Speaker 4 Listen, I will say this.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God.

Speaker 4 If political alignment is important to you, the fish can tell you a lot.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. You're too funny.
No, I just want like simple photos that show your lifestyle, that show your face, right? Something simple. Professional photos go a long way, too.

Speaker 4 I always tell my clients, you know, get a photographer.

Speaker 3 That's worth the money.

Speaker 3 So I would do a great job for my clients, but for myself, I did a shitty job. I'd be like, all right, I just spent all day helping people build their online profiles.

Speaker 3 So for me, I'm putting up these shitty pictures and I'm going to do a half-assed job. And I'd read my profile.
I'd be like, Mike, this is embarrassing. Like, you're supposed to be good at the.
Anyway,

Speaker 3 so then last winter, I had some friends help me rewrite my profile because I couldn't do it myself. I just hated it for myself.
I love doing it for other people.

Speaker 3 And then we got upgraded the pictures, upgraded the profile. And maybe I was getting like two to four messages a week from women.
Got up to 10.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it's overnight, honestly. For a lot of my clients,

Speaker 4 I tell them, get on the apps. And then when we make their profile and we really refresh it, night and day.

Speaker 2 If you guys,

Speaker 2 if both of you saw my profile, I think you guys would cringe. You would be so mad at me because I make it like really, really, really tough.
Well, the thing is, like really tough.

Speaker 2 Because I want to weed out like 99.9% of people.

Speaker 3 Give me an example of how you make it tough.

Speaker 2 Kind of like, you know, I'm really, I take great care of myself. I have very high energy.
I am very successful. I am this, I am that, and that.
And you have to be all of these things.

Speaker 2 Wow. And I live in Beverly Hills.
Like, I just like, you know, this is what I want. I, you know, I just make it really tough.

Speaker 4 Interesting is you have to

Speaker 4 remind yourself that, first of all, online dating is a two-dimensional experience. And people don't know you the way you know you, the way your friends know you when they're looking at your profile.

Speaker 4 No, so you got to give them an impression that's like appetizing. You want to make yourself

Speaker 2 like I'm like, okay, just I'm almost testing them. Who has the guts to approach me? Because I'm making it so hard for everybody.
The cat. Yeah.
But I get

Speaker 2 messages. I got it, but very, very careful.

Speaker 4 Who wants to step into the dragon's den?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Very rarely. I'm like, okay.

Speaker 3 So think about this, though. Very rare.
So, like, this hyper-masculine guy that

Speaker 3 the guys that are messaging you must be hyper-masculine because they've got to be like,

Speaker 3 I'm even bigger and better than her. Yes.
But this guy that's big and big.

Speaker 2 But they all say they are. And, you know,

Speaker 3 they don't want to deal. I just want to be honest with you.
Yeah, I agree. They want

Speaker 3 a feminine woman. They don't want to compete.
And they feel like they have to compete with you.

Speaker 2 I know. But they don't.

Speaker 3 I know, but that's what your profile is saying. I agree.
And I'm I'm talking to you right now. I don't feel like I have to compete with you.
I'm having a great time with you. And that's who you are.

Speaker 3 I know. But your profile is not saying that.

Speaker 2 Every time, when they meet me, all the guys that I date, they meet me. They're like, oh my God, you're so different.
You're so sweet. And you're so nice.

Speaker 2 And you're so like, you know, so different from your profile. I thought you were so bougie and you're so different from your pictures.

Speaker 2 But that's what I want. I want to see if they cross the fire to find out.

Speaker 3 But now you've ruled out all like

Speaker 2 all the most eligible guys.

Speaker 3 I'm super successful. I'm emotionally available.
Like, all the things

Speaker 3 that woman never would get a message from me.

Speaker 2 I'm like, it's too combative.

Speaker 3 Why do I want to compete

Speaker 2 with that? I guess I have to change my tactic. Yeah.

Speaker 3 It's a little softer. Yeah.
And you'd be surprised.

Speaker 3 You're actually going to get the guys that are successful, that are emotionally available, that are good talkers, that are going to take you on a great date. And more importantly, they don't cheat.

Speaker 3 Because

Speaker 3 the guys that the reason you keep getting these the guys that compete

Speaker 2 those are the guys that are having the games that want to you know it's a game when let me go bang whoever on valentine's day and then come home to you because you're something they have to compete no but listen that was four years ago like i would never date you know i was a completely different person then that i am now you know obviously i learned so much it was a process you know like you said you were a different guy when you were at a fiancé from the guy that you are now it's the same with me I changed so much.

Speaker 2 I'm a much stronger person. I would never date, you know, these crazy womanizers that cheat on me.
Nowadays, I date a much more solid, nicer guy.

Speaker 2 But yeah, I think I need to be a little nicer and more soft on my plan.

Speaker 4 Lean into your feminine energy.

Speaker 2 Yeah, for sure. For sure.

Speaker 4 What do I always say? I need to be. Men like to be around women who make them feel like men.

Speaker 2 Yeah. No, for sure.
I agree with you guys.

Speaker 2 How did you meet your girlfriend?

Speaker 3 Believe it or not, on hinge, even though she lives like 100 feet from me. No way.

Speaker 3 We've lived 100 feet from each other for four years, never ran into each other.

Speaker 2 Wow, so it was really meant to be. I hope so.
Sarah DeFanelle looks like you're very happy. Yeah.

Speaker 3 We're about to go travel the world leaving Friday.

Speaker 2 Wow. Where are you going first?

Speaker 3 Guatemala.

Speaker 2 Guatemala. Well, I hope you guys have an amazing time.
Thank you so much for doing this. I will definitely try your videos, your new approach.
Thank you, Nelly, for chiming in.

Speaker 2 Of course, you guys are amazing. Congratulations on all your success.
And you guys can watch the video episode and all his fantastic videos on easy dating, right, Mike? Easy dating coach.

Speaker 2 Easy dating coach, Mike Goldstein. Thank you so much.
This was a really fun cat on the loose. Never give up on love, right, guys?

Speaker 2 Never. Until you find your person.
Thank you, guys. I'll see you very soon.
Yeah, thank you.