"Candor" (w/ Sarah Jessica Parker)

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Look, man.

Oh, I see.

My eye.

Oh, my.

Bowen, look over there.

Wow, is that culture?

Yes.

Goodness.

Wow.

Las Culturistas.

Ding-dong.

Las Culturistas calling.

And like Carrie Bradshaw, we have returned from Paris.

We have returned from

New York and hidden the streets again.

I mean, and we were in an expensive suite in this lovely hotel.

And we did not find love there.

We did not find love there.

Thinking of Bianca Mila of BC Travel.

At BC Travel.

At BC Travel.

We didn't really try to find love, though.

We didn't make earnest attempts.

We made half-assed attempts.

No.

I think

even for staying in the Marais, it was still a pretty, I would say, and I say this with all love during Pride Month.

It was a pretty hetero sort of romance being sort of bandied about.

And then even sort of, I don't know, like at an allegedly gay club that we were supposed to go to that we did end up going to.

Oh, that didn't feel gay at all.

The energy was kind of more black swan,

straight sort of biomass than it was like an explicitly queer space.

And that's okay.

She just took me back to, we were in NYU, and I walked on Fourth Avenue, and they were filming a movie.

And I said, what are you guys filming?

And they said, we are filming a movie called Black Swan.

And years later, I'd, not years later, a year later, I'd find out it was the iconic scene with Mila Kunis and Natalie Portman where Mila goes, you've never rolled.

And then they do Molly and have a lesbian encounter.

Much more successful homosexually than we were in Paris.

Absolutely.

But you guys rock, Natalie and Mila and come on the pod

together.

Together.

I hope that they're still connected.

I'm sure they are.

Oh.

Oh.

Well, anyway, we're sort of doing that thing where it's like, it's a big gas.

We really can't believe it.

Yeah.

And so no more of our bullshit because this is a no bullshit moment in Lost Cult history.

It's one of those days we were passing back and forth a little phone, sort of going shot for shot on iconic

moments in a certain television series history, and really just like sitting in not just the impact, but the talent of our guest, just an incredible actor, as well as being a true pop culture icon, one of the top pop culture icons on our iconic 400, I believe number five.

Number five.

And she was my first sort of pop cultural Winifred.

I was like, sure, sure, sure.

Carol Burnett, we love.

She would then play Agravaine in her version.

Once Upon a Mattress was like the big first freshman year musical for me.

Huge window into the entire.

This is, could be an answer for me for the culture that made me say Culture vs.

Me was

the Broadway revival of Once Upon a Mattress that our guest was the star of.

For me, outside of the big one, I think I knew a little bit who I was when I watched Hocus Pocus, and I said, well, I'm that one.

Yeah.

That's the one I am.

And a dark lip.

100%.

Totally.

A dark lip and a distracted, bedazzled energy.

I said, I want to be that unbothered.

Of course.

I strive for that.

They won't expect anything of me.

No, of course not.

You're dancing idiotically in the background.

You can never forget.

Bet, come on, the pod.

Bet, come on the pod.

Anyway, Kathy.

Of course, Kathy.

Well, of course, Kathy.

I hope they keep in touch.

But first, but first, our guest.

Well, it's the mayoral primary in New York.

I think she's our mayor.

Everyone, please welcome into your mayor.

Say Jessica Bargain!

Oh my gosh.

Well, I feel it'd be best if I just left now.

Like every day I want to be all those things.

Like one day, perhaps I will actually be one or two of those or that person you described.

But perhaps we just leave

best left alone.

Sure, I'll hear that.

Thank you so much for having me.

Have a great day.

And I'll see you next time.

This has been great.

Honestly, though, it does have to be, I was thinking about this, like this idea of you as the woman who represents New York women.

Like when you are you and you're not Carrie Bradshaw, that's a little bit of a burden, but also I guess not.

It's really not.

None of it's a burden.

Sure.

I mean, relative to burdens, do you know what I mean?

Like relative to like actual crosses to bear,

it's really one of the great privileges of a lifetime.

My question for you is, and I've always wondered this, so Carrie Bradshaw's famous shoe game.

Was your shoe game always on point or did you have to kind of up the shoe game as SJP because people see CB?

Oh, interesting.

I think there was a tandem relationship and and but one

one went mad

and the other stayed as like a civilian.

You know, like I have I really actually

have always loved shoes and I will try to tell this story quickly, but I'm one of eight kids.

There was a period of time in which I was one of six kids, but nonetheless, that's a lot of kids to shoe every year.

That's a lot of feet.

And so at the top of the school year, my mother would take us, and this was not an unusual experience for people in this country at a specific time.

You'd go to a shoe store before school started.

You would be sized.

And we didn't have a lot of money.

So we weren't like just shopping for shoes.

It was like a utilitarian act in a way.

It was just necessary.

And we went, and I'm the fourth of the six and now eight, or that, you know, soon after eight.

And so I would just like walk around the shoe store smelling shoes.

And what I loved about a shoe store, and I'm much older than you, so I don't know if you had this experience, but when you walk into the shoe store in August,

it's air conditioned, first of all.

Like, I don't know if you guys grew up with an air conditioner in your house, but we did not.

Like, that is a privilege that in the Ohio summer, August.

So we walk, you know, drive a good distance to our shoe store that is a distributor of like Buster Brown, you know, walk in.

And as my siblings were getting fitted, I would like pick up shoes and smell them and then turn them over

and

like really look at the stitching on the bottom of the sole of a buster brown shoe so I really came to this experience of playing someone who has a far more fevered relationship with shoes with some like real affection I just don't I didn't have the access or the money or the

the constitution to like be buying sure right like it would not have

I would not have considered that kind of indulgence yeah seems like it seems like i'm relating this idea to you talking in interviews about having access to books in kind of a similar way i mean is that i mean obviously different functions um but like

i find it interesting that you think that i i think i i'm implying i'm i'm gonna guess that you uh are the one who's gone mad and carrie's the one who stayed a civilian and yet it seems like no it's the reverse okay carrie went crazy with shoes, and I stayed

more real.

Now, granted, perhaps not

real too.

If you might work in an office in Omaha, you might not.

Our versions of being civilians are not

terrible.

Totally, totally.

I don't have the closet that she has.

I don't have the shoes she has.

I don't have the amount, nor would I ever, like,

that kind of

of indulgence and decadence for maximalism Yes, maximalist.

Yeah, I wouldn't but I love shoes.

Yes, so but books were different in my house because we had a public library So we always had books We could always have books, but you can't always have shoes, right?

And so when you grow up, I think having a pair for the fall and a pair for the spring and then hand-me-downs, you have a different, like the, the,

the thing you're reaching for remains like

a far away distance you know of course and books were much more at our like we we thought of them went to the library like fulfilled you know so they kind of are different i i love books yes talk about that but but i've had a different it's been different because those have been more within my reach sure when i was younger i mean i

am always so curious about the sort of

transitional time in your life where you were in Ohio to sort of working and probably being in New York for, I guess, many months out of the year?

Or was it, was that like a sudden, quick, like, okay, we're picking, like everyone pick up your bags, we're going to New York?

We moved to New York.

I, I lived in Cincinnati until I was

12.

We, my brother and I, the previous summer, in the summer of 76, we'd worked in New York on a, in a play on Broadway.

It had gone out of town for out-of-town tryouts first.

And that was my only experience working in New York.

My real father is born and raised in Brooklyn, but he wasn't living in Brooklyn by the time he became a parent.

So we spent time in Brooklyn with his parents.

But so we had that experience.

And on January 1st of 1977,

my parents...

put everything we owned into our Volkswagen bus and we moved to New York City, the entire family.

And at that point, there were six of us.

My mother was pregnant with

my sister Legra.

She was born.

She came later because she couldn't, it wasn't a great idea for her to travel 12 miles in a car.

But there was like literally like, I remember at one point, my father kind of stopped suddenly and there was a cast iron scale up behind my head.

And I just remember just like knowing that it was there, like putting my hand back to hold it.

So that it wouldn't hit us all in the head.

So then we moved to New York City and we didn't have a home yet.

We were going to be the first families that moved to Roosevelt Island.

Oh, wow.

And we came to New York to move to Roosevelt Island because they had subsidized housing.

So we could afford to live in New York City.

Right.

But they weren't ready yet.

So we moved to the Holiday Inn in Yonkers.

And we lived there.

And then my mom came.

And so my sister was born in Yonkers.

And then Roosevelt Island was finally ready, I think, in the spring of 77, maybe.

So then we moved to Roosevelt Island and we lived there.

Was the train?

Was this, this is such a tram was there, yeah.

So there was no, there there was a park, there was no subway service yet.

It hadn't been built.

It may have even just been like a dream.

I don't think they had started digging that subway line yet.

Yeah.

And we only knew about Roosevelt Island because there was an article in New York magazine about it.

And my mom read the article and we applied through the Housing Urban Development Corporation and got one of the apartments.

Wow.

So we lived there for a year.

So we all moved, the entire family.

My father started

a trucking business.

He was a truck driver.

And some of my other siblings were actors and auditioning.

And

thus began our time in the city.

And I don't think I ever imagined at that point that anyone would ever say, yeah, no, you're a New Yorker.

I was like keeping track the entire time.

Like at what point

do I get to

say,

yeah, I'm a New Yorker.

I mean, I have, I love Cincinnati so much and it's an incredible city.

Like it's a really special city and it's cultured and interesting, and such smart people, and it's beautiful.

But I love that, yeah, you ended up where you're going.

Yeah, what year was Annie's been so on the brain for me recently because they just did that beautiful rendition of Tomorrow at the Tony Awards, Sarah Boralis and Cynthia Arrivo in Memoriam.

And I was just, I've now fallen into this wormhole of those songs.

Oh my gosh, the greatest kind of baby and tomorrow, and just really everything, even not even just Annie's songs, I mean, across the board.

What age was that?

So that was, um, I joined the cast.

I was like, I guess one of the first replacements.

So what happened is Kathy Joe Kelly

was July.

She left to do the first national tour and play Annie.

So I was her replacement.

So I came in in January of 1978.

Wow.

Having

seen the show.

Yeah.

Like I was like.

You were obsessed.

I don't even know if like there's a word to describe the way I felt about seeing that show.

We saw it, I think, before it opened on Broadway.

And I've been working in an industrial with a bunch of the kids that were in that cast.

And one of the original orphans was my understudy in the innocence on Broadway that I had done the year before.

So all of us were very like

we were like devotees of Annie.

And that cast album

is

so I came in as an orphan as July, as well.

I was cast as the understudy to Annie,

which is mystifying because I didn't, I never really sang professionally.

Really?

No.

How was that?

Is it just like loving it at that age?

And so you're pretending?

Or like, what do you think made

little you able to do that?

Because it's not easy songs.

No, yeah.

And I still left thinking, well, I'm not really a singer.

I don't know.

I think,

you know, we grew up listening to records.

We didn't have a television and

we listened to cast albums all the time.

And, you know, I think like a lot of people in my family, we don't know why, we have a musical ear.

Like we have good,

you know, we have musicality or we have good pitch.

Like, and

I'm an interpreter.

You know what I mean?

Like, I'm an interpreter.

And I, you know, I had a really good audition song, I will say.

And it was kind of controversial and no one else was doing it um those are always the best ones so we're gonna is the path like it's not

sinnier yeah because it's gonna might hit i love it

i think we can i think we can dovetail into the question okay but i do want to know your audition

i think it's about to crack over

which is okay this is the question sarah does it parker what was the culture that made you say culture is for you so

My answer to that question, and I was delighted to have one versus, you know, hemming and hawing and trying to come up with something.

I have a very clear and specific and the easiest thing.

It took like 20 seconds to get that around.

That's great.

Okay.

So in 1976, when we came to New York or 1975, I can't remember.

We came to New York to audition for The Innocents on Broadway.

And that's another kind of amazing, crazy long story.

But as Bridget Everett, who I call Ginger, says, short story long,

we came to New York.

And while we were in New York City,

one night we were spending time with my paternal grandparents in Brooklyn and my mother and father went to see a show that was in previews called A Chorus Line on Broadway at the Schubert Theater.

And they actually

like summoned the dollars together in order to stay an extra day because they thought.

Our children have to see this show.

Like they have to see the show.

So they stood back in line and we got standing room and we got two seats and we flipped like some of us stood for a while, and some of us sat.

And so, I saw in previews at the Schubert Theater, I can't say that I saw it down at the public theater.

I saw a course line on Broadway before it opened.

And

I can say without hesitation that it completely changed my life.

Wow.

And I think what's so interesting about

good theater or a good book,

a musical or a straight play or a movie is that

it is not necessarily,

I don't have to have been a 24-year-old.

Corusline is famous for calling all of them boys and girls.

But I was like nine or 10 years old and I was from Ohio and I

felt like the plates of the earth had just shifted and they shouldn't have

really, except that

they were so good, that cast and that show was so clearly about

love.

That show was so clearly about a dream.

And I think, you know, obviously what I did for love

is

so gorgeous because it just says everything.

And it applies to people in a broad range of industries.

It applies to, but there is something uniquely special about this desire to be on stage.

And it's hard to articulate because it's not

necessary

it's not

even rational if you don't have yet the language like why sarah jessica why do you want to be on stage you're eight you're nine you're ten and i wasn't like a show biz kid it wasn't like i was tap dancing for my parents and like putting on shows yeah put on shows but that show

Priscilla Lopez singing nothing and music in the mirror.

I was going to say, I saw the Jimmy Awards last night.

Oh.

And one of the girls did

Music in the Mirror.

mirror and i and she of course went to the finals because it's so winning it is so sweeping it is such a journey and you're just you're taken away i remember i've told you this a million times jane krakowski did it on alien years ago she's a monster she's she is so talented it's just crazy freaking task i remember even back in the i remember i was little watching over my aunt's shoulder ever watch have you ever pulled up on youtube do you any clips in the original production oh of course it's it's some there's some shaky bootlegs right i know when you thank God for all the bitching and money.

You're like, put your camera down.

There's someone up in the balcony.

And you're like, why did all of us make such a fuss?

You know what?

We needed at least one.

We just

look in the mirror is such a winning song because, and I think that probably what I can relate to and what you're saying, and I'm sure Bowen can as well, is it's like, you're right.

What is the question that I'm trying to answer within myself that, because I feel a certain emotion doing this, I think what I experienced was, I want to express myself like that.

Yeah.

Do you think that that's maybe what it is?

I don't know if I understood that I wanted to express myself.

I guess I wanted to care.

What I understood in the simplest terms was this

kind of unmatched

necessity to care,

to

be completely devoted, to fillet yourself and without any

with total understanding of

the very possible disappointment and heartbreak but that without the attempt without the

um

like the exercise like the real endeavor then you would be at a deficit like you would be worse off for not having been heartbroken than you would have been for

a path more common what I did for love I mean it's all about putting yourself out there a hundred and saying, this is what I'm offering.

What I did for love

is this, and the show are about not to get sort of college-y meta about

having a passion for a passion.

It's about being passionate about passion.

Going to see a Broadway show.

It's one of my favorite things to do.

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Were you watching A Chorus Line thinking in the context of how you had watched musicals before that moment, or was that just like completely

like

a first impression of what the forum could be would be?

Because it felt pretty, it was very groundbreaking at the time.

It was groundbreaking because it was so modern and it was without a fourth wall and it was a person in the house talking to the cast and they were dressed like nobody had ever dressed, no one had ever been costumed like that on Broadway.

No one was wearing

parcel

wear.

And

it was such a kind of candor about the language and the way they were talking.

And it was like ribald and dirty sometimes.

And there were inferences that were meant to be funny and sexual.

And there was

homosexuality.

And, you know, Paul, I think is, you know, God, it would be amazing to play that part.

Oh, that's a a beautiful, you know, that part, right?

Like that story of his parents coming and seeing him still dressed as a young woman.

He's like in a, you know, a um, what do you call it?

The shows, um, burlesque, and and Times Square.

You know, every single story was A, so well thought out.

The book was the cleanest, most perfect, unlike everything not necessary was gone, unembellished, yeah.

And, um,

so I think it was just like

perfect yeah and the singing and um

you know uh what's Maggie's song um uh

oh oh oh the greatest of all yeah you know to me um every day was beautiful at the ballet at the ballet

everyone's happy about it I mean that her singing you did yeah yes I mean and I love doing what you did whatever whatever whatever no no no that was we talk about her because her was I mean but you know that was actually my first experience actually when I was watching Glee and you doing it.

Oh, really?

Yeah, I loved it.

I was a little bit corrected to head.

Whatever.

I mean, give yourself credit.

It affected me.

I was going to ask you this.

Do you find, because I'm finding a link here between you pointing out in the book for the chorus line that there's candor and that there's honesty and that there's, and then famously, you know, you become synonymous with candor on television for the first time.

Is that something you're attracted to?

Is that something that you feel like

you're seeking candor?

I mean, I don't think so.

I don't think it's like a criteria.

I think I liked that as a child because

all the musicals that I had

heard before that were really traditional, like big musicals like Hammers, you know, like Rogers and Hammerstein and Learning Low and like Oklahoma and Showboat.

And

so I think what struck me so much and the rest of the world was that a chorus line was so

intimate and people were talking about their lives on stage that were very different than Shogun, even like Jerry's Shogun.

And which I loved.

So when I received the script, the pilot script for Sex and City, I wasn't looking to play like,

you know, a sort of

New Yorker, yes,

who was curious about sexual politics and wanted to have intimate conversation.

Like, I didn't even realize that was a

thing that could be told or said, but I certainly was, like, found it really compelling.

I was, I thought, I've never read, even in pilot form, because it's just so minimal, really.

When you look back, you're like, it was just this.

But it was really in plenty to

convince me very easily without like any persuasion that it was like, this is different.

This is, I haven't heard anyone, I haven't heard people have these kinds of conversations.

And there were plenty of women on television before Mary Richards, of course,

of course.

And others, and Marla Thomas, and many others who, forgive me, I'm not remembering.

It's not like women hadn't, we weren't like the first women, but because I think of the, because of our studio, it was HBO, like the rules were very, or didn't apply at all.

Yeah, I used to, I used to wait till my parents would leave the house and then I would go to my, we had HBO on demand and I would just mainline wait, where are you from?

Where are you?

Long Island.

You're from Long Island.

Yeah, from South Carolina.

So, this dream wasn't even that far away, but it could have felt far away, I guess.

One of my answers to our own question is: We went to go see hairspray.

And I just remember the three-part harmony on

the trio, and they hit this insane three-part harmony belt.

When

the ladies were singing,

yeah, yeah.

And I believe it was

the mama song.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I just remember hearing those harmonies belted and how joyful it was, and the response from the audience.

And I burst into tears, and my mom was like, What is wrong?

And I was like, Nothing, I don't know.

Exactly.

But it was, it's, it's nothing, I don't know.

That would be a really good name for your memoir.

You know what?

I'm gonna call it not for nothing.

Are you being serious?

No, I'm serious.

Oh, interesting.

So then your second book is called.

So the first one's called Not for Nothing, and the second one's called

Nothing I Don't Know.

Because also, Nothing I Don't Know could be

Nothing I Don't Know.

Right.

You know,

it was very nothing I don't know because it was.

Because you couldn't, or you didn't

know me.

That's why I asked you.

Was it about expression?

Because the tables are turning.

I asked you, was it about expression?

Because certainly for me it was.

I think I was like, I remember I saw those women and everyone up there.

dancing and singing and giving it everything.

And I think they knew they were a part of something special.

And

all I wanted to do was, I think honestly, when I talk talk about that belted harmony, it's because of the volume.

I wanted to express myself loudly.

And I think there's something about looking at people on a stage and expressing, especially in the show that you point out.

Wow, it makes me emotional.

Like,

the freedom to express.

And that is.

That is what you get on stage.

And at the Jimmy Awards last night, it's just so emotional.

Can you tell me about the Jimmy Awards?

No, it's the High School Musical Theater Awards.

Oh, is it a J-Y, a G-Y-N.

It's named after James Niederlander.

Oh, Jimmy U.S.

at the Niederlander.

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

No, it's at the Minskoff.

The Minsk.

But I saw you at the Niederlander in Plaza Suite.

Oh, oh, oh, oh.

And I went to the.

Wait, was it the Niederlander?

No, we were at the Hudson.

Oh, at the Hudson.

That's okay.

That's okay.

That's okay.

But

that was the last time I guess I, well, I guess we ran into you at SNL 50, but the last time I had physically seen you.

But it's another, did I see it, Smash?

Where did I accost you guys?

Was it at SNL 500?

It was a moment for our lives.

The highlight of our name.

And all I could say to was, I just watched election.

That's a perfectly fine thing to say to him.

That's really nice.

That's nice.

I said it twice in a night.

So I'm the second time.

By the way, what a great movie.

I want to ask you a question in a second, but I do want to talk about SNL 50

because actually I

was moving past Lauren more recently, and I tried to tell him we were at a party and

another party, a different party.

And I tried to say,

you know,

that was like a perfect night.

That was

like

a perfect night.

And I've been trying to figure out a way of writing him a note to say, thank you for including us in that night.

And it started the weekend with the show and the concert.

And it was so much fun.

And I like, we don't even go out anywhere.

Like, no, no, it's okay.

But

I tried to tell Lauren

how perfect it was.

And I can't imagine.

The feat of production, my God.

And what went into deciding which ones you were going to do and

how hard it would be to be clear-eyed enough to focus and

everybody kind of already who who rise all the time anyway at 11 o'clock, like 11:30, like already that's so something you guys are all accustomed to.

So you were like taking like the most well-oiled machine and somehow making it like

like a speed train in Kyoto or you know what I mean like a bullet train

so did you guys know that this was like oh this is solid like were you like it was all for sure

in

in Lorne's mind up until like the two weeks before so Lorne I think was doing his kind of amazing beautiful mind-esque like the numbers are sort of like floating around his head but like for the better part of the of the fall I think for all of the first half of the season of 50 it was like okay like what's the show gonna be like who should we be out to like can we can we need to do like a veil checks

yeah as if somebody would not cross

you know like anywhere to get there and people

posted it that you think right would be amazing but there it is a it's also very nerve-wracking but it's also like a night for legends like it's a night where you want to repeat you want to dip back in like it's such a deep well of course so i thought however you came to these decisions

whatever the collective is yes um

first of all the opening with paul simon and sabrina carpenter which is like

perfect yeah and so sentimental like already then and now

they already hit like a triple totally

you know like

she was perfect and she like held back just the right like it was so elegant and he was so touching and it's so sentimental and it's so nostalgic.

And, you know, my brothers grew up watching that show, the very first episode, like your show.

That show.

But anyway, so already you could tell, like, it was, you know, when you get off to a start like that, you're like, sure, you're so right.

It's like, I think probably that, that was the thought that went into it from Lauren's end.

It was just like, let's just make sure this is cozy and comfortable for everyone in the room, everyone at home.

We're in good hands all the way through.

And then you you come out with, you know, Steve Martin coming out,

Mulaney, Martin Short, it's like all these heavy hitters.

And then it's just, it was, to me,

this like four-dimensional photomosaic of like

everyone who's, who's had the same shared experience of being on that show.

And it meant everything that like my closest friends were there.

Matt was there.

Sudie was there.

Our best friend Sudie, Celeste, our co-writer who we're working with now.

I mean, it was just this like complete tapestry of like the human experience and how all of it has this optimistic sort of like encasing around it, which is like, it's going to be okay.

Like for all of like the like slings and errors that people suffer in the system and outside of it, it's like everyone's here and they're telling you about the kids that are, that they have, the families that they've grown.

like the lives that they've had since they've been at the show.

Even though it was really hard in the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, the odds, whatever.

Like every era of the show is like not totally unique because it's like oh it's all been set against the backdrop of whatever political chaos was happening at the time and like it's our job to like bring some levity in whatever way we can in whatever media environment that is like

out there.

I mean, like, I was like, no one's going to watch this.

Like, it's like, no, everyone's attentions are pulled in a million different directions.

But every

so often, there's a cultural event that

is able to sit everybody down yeah yep and and you want it to be in real time like all of the

new

and

the ways in which i like have like an allergy to watching television like that too was the thing is like no it's going it you don't want to watch it tomorrow's monocultural zeitgeist moment that is that is literally

not a sports event not a sports event no yeah right but i remember like this is odd but like i remember the when we were little, I remember watching Who Wants to be a Millionaire when the first person won a million dollars.

Yeah.

And it was like the world exploded.

Like, I remember when Richard Hatch won Survivor, me talking about only reality.

Kelly Clarkson, when he came to the middle of the day,

but like, you know, all these things are, that's what SNL 50 was recreating.

And I think such a good job.

It makes you proud to be a New Yorker, too, because obviously it's synonymous.

And I think that must have, that must also give you a sense of synonymous.

There are great musicals that are about New York and important choreography but I think because this can this is a this contemporary thing keeps giving us this experience every weekend and it is only could be home in New York

yeah and you know a show can go on the road and touch people all over the country and the globe frankly but New York continues to be like this export like we don't get to send art as far in the ways we used to like it was such a crisscrossing of the ocean.

It was such an effort.

And now we were tossing stuff.

But this is a new York show.

It employs thousands and thousands and thousands of thousands of New Yorkers.

I'm sure generations have gone through that studio of people on the crew side.

You know,

there's...

endless stories of the way in which it is a New York show.

Yes.

The guys in the deli.

Are you like an Israeli nightlife died in the wool?

You know, there's There's a period when I started having children that I didn't, that I like tapped out of baseball and I tapped out of anything that was late.

Because I just didn't, especially if I was shooting and being a parent, it just all of a sudden it didn't factor.

Like I couldn't carve the time out.

Yep.

But it's really interesting when you have children after a while, what their interests are and what they're talking about can bring you back home.

Right.

You know,

my son is a massive baseball fan.

And so

it came back into our life because he became much more,

you know, he was dictating conversation at the table.

And then, of course, they're all watching SNL and they're talking about it and they're telling us and re, you know, and pulling stuff up on their phones of scenes and instances and whatever.

So the way in which it kind of disappeared, not entirely, but I wasn't.

able to stay up.

Of course.

You know,

that's not so much the case anymore.

Yeah.

But for you to give the imprimatur of new yorkness onto that show is meaningful just coming from another new york show um i'm just so happy to hear that you guys had a great time because it because it because you're right fantastic the people in the room were you matthew lady gaga

share for god's sake you know what i mean it was like and like you know

we couldn't believe we were like look

oh my god like everyone was rubbernecking

it was so crazy and then like even the entrance and um you know getting your ticket and

you know matthew was convinced we weren't gonna watch it in the room because they ushered us to this really lovely like cocktail area

the lounge and then i felt matthew's spirit oh it slightly he's like i we're i think we're in the lounge to watch it and i was like that's okay we're all it's all we're on this floor right we're on the eighth floor right the eighth floor

and um They moved you in.

And then the woman was like, no, you're you come right into the floor.

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By the way, you know where I just saw Matthew at the Mets game?

He was there at the Mets.

Is he there all the time?

Yes, there's a lot of people.

Were you ride hard for the Mets or are you Yankees and is it a torn up household?

Oh, it's such a complicated thing because we, like, our whole courtship was like the late 90s Yankees because

everybody, everybody was.

Everybody was.

Tough has to be a Mets fan then because the Yankees, you guys would not shut up.

But we weren't that kind of Yankees fan because that's always been objectionable to me.

But we did,

we were in a couple ticker ticker tape parades.

Yeah.

And we didn't have kids then.

So, like, you know, we could, our dream was we were going to travel.

We didn't get to go on a honeymoon because we were both working.

But our travel dream was we were either going to go to Vietnam or

we were going to go to all the baseball stadiums across the country before they were torn down.

Like, so many of them have been torn down, you know.

God, I know I miss Shea.

Yeah, even Shea Miss Shea.

I still can't.

I'm a farm of Shea.

Right.

My dad used to ride his bike from Long Island and hop defense, and he would just just watch games at Shea,

like riding in from Linden.

Matthew did, I mean, Matthew was sort of taught that you

hop defense.

Like he was raised as a Mets fan.

His father took him to Mets games.

So it was always hard.

And then when they would have Subway Series, it was really hard.

It's just that this late 90s Yankee team was just heavenly.

And

we, you know, we loved them.

But we love the Mets too.

And there's been many times when it's been really hard.

Sure.

Oh, because

the thing with the Mets is they're either really good or really bad.

I know, but man,

watching the Mets fan, like our house, like, I'm like.

We believe.

Oh, my God.

You got to believe.

What is the temperature going to be?

When Matthew, I walked in the room the other day and I was like, what?

What?

Like, I was.

scared of like some horrible news that had just arrived over the wire.

And he's like, they just blew a, you know, they just blew a seven-run blow.

That's part of being a Mets family.

I know, I know.

It's just really.

It's just the tragedy and the glory.

No, I know, I know.

But you got to be true blue.

I go, gentlemen, come on, boys.

Oh, no, you have to be true blue.

But you're saying it divides the house along what line?

Well, meaning it doesn't really divide the house, except that there are times when, there were times when both were playing that we,

I was like,

I felt kind of

bad about, I didn't know where to put my,

I didn't know where to align because I love both teams.

It's very hard to have to choose to have two great hometown teams now Matt Matthew wouldn't be quite as equivocating right so is it because you think of like the Yankees you think of the New York grander and then there's also the Mets with that underdog like union spirit almost that's I think that's what connected my dad's whole attitude is like the Met well in the old days the Yankees had all the money to you know hire players and the Mets were a scrappy like political that was the feeling that was kind of like the color of the the tone of the sentiment around.

And, you know, Yankee fans were wealthy.

This was the

not necessarily true.

This was kind of, you know, I painted my nails white for you guys.

Just want you to know that.

I've never had white nails in my whole life, and they're going to come off the second I got them.

I love the white nails.

And I wasn't sure.

And I already talked into it.

Like butter.

Anyway, I just saw them flash, and I was like, I better explain why these nails are white.

But I feel like that was always the feeling.

I don't know if that's true or if that's based on

reality.

And I know a lot of it is regional.

I know that Queens tends, to obviously are Mets fans and Upper New York are, you know, Yankees fans.

Like all the geography makes sense, but I don't know how you pick a team.

Well, I think it's like it really is like your spirit can be very broken when

you are the underdog team again and again and again.

But I also think it's more fun.

Of course it is.

I think it's always wins what they mean.

You know, it's fun to win all the time, but not, but you can, it can do something to you

when

come to expect glory and victory in this way and almost give an entitlement.

And I think that's what I resented about Yankee fans that were around me is that they felt that they were entitled.

They felt they were better than me.

Yes, yes.

You know what I mean?

That's what it was.

And I remember

maybe this happened in your family at some point, but one day I think I was just like wanting to test the waters.

And I walked into my dad and I was like, I'm a Yankees fan.

And I bought all this Jeter merch.

And I was like, I think I thought that was.

Maybe you really were a Yankees fan, if you know what I'm saying.

You know, who I was a big fan of was Mariah Carey, and they were dating.

He was a Jeters.

Did you like Tino Martinez, too?

Oh, my God.

I love Tino Martinez's first base.

So

he would wear a batter's helmet while he played in the field.

Oh, fuck.

And he was one of the only ones.

So this is like deep in my life.

Yeah.

And remember, what did your father, what was his,

was he just like,

my dad, it, you know what's funny is he reacts now to the TV when Trump is on the way he used to react when things would go down with the team.

And I thought over the years he had calmed down, but then left.

But now it's now it's politics.

But last year when the Mets were really in it again, he was yelling at the TV again.

And I was like, you know what?

It kind of was nice.

It kind of took me back a little bit.

It was sweet.

You know?

Oh, it's great.

But I remember like, yeah, that was before theater for me.

Yeah.

It was like sports.

Well, sports is theater.

I mean, my God, the drama.

Absolutely.

In our house, and we can move on, honestly.

In our house, you'll hear like through the house.

I don't know if you guys use it.

There's a thing about clapping when you get runs like it's not like golf clapping it's like um the spirited clap yeah it's like this kind of clap that i'm like ah like oh that's better for all of us whatever happens

is good yeah yeah yeah we we did skip over so you you talked about hairspray but what was your

need to ask and ask the question i was just curious because you got to talk about um your your hairspray experience but i don't know and maybe i should sorry but i mean no no no

why should you know?

I mean, what was as it relates to theater or just-

No, that cultural oh, it's it's a lot of different answers every day.

That's okay.

I will say today,

probably apropos of you being here, um,

you, you are on the top of, at the top of the show, I was kind of unlocking all these Once Upon a Mattress memories for myself, and it was going to the library and picking up your recording of Once Upon a Mattress, as well as, because this was 2003,

as well as the wicked soundtrack, the wicked recording.

And both of those figure very heavily into my life.

Yeah.

But just it was hearing you sing shy.

It was hearing you sing, you know, like Spanish Panic or doing like the

songs.

But I mean, it's a musical that I love.

It's so funny.

Not everybody loves that musical.

I just love it.

It's like it's jazzy and fun and funny and cheeky.

It's got all this way.

I took my aunt to go see this.

It's like a skit almost.

It's like a sketch.

It's a hard time.

It feels like.

And the new one that Amy Sherman Palladino did the new book for.

Talking about.

Oh, with a Sutton.

Yeah, with a single.

Yeah, I didn't get to see that.

It was really much funnier than I thought it was going to be.

And because, you know, it had been modernized and it had been punched up for a modern audience.

But I left with a big smile.

It really, it really was great.

And it actually made me excited about reviving stuff like that.

Yeah.

Because there's a little part of me that

really is excited about where theater is going.

I'm sure you've seen everything, but Sunset Boulevard.

Yeah.

And I mean, you know, whatever is happening with Evida right now with Rachel Zegler on the West End.

I love the choice to Jamie Lloyd.

That's what you like.

Jamie Lloyd.

To fixing a theater.

Jamie.

Well, you know where we're going.

We're going to Gypsy.

Tomorrow we're going to see Gypsy.

That's my second time.

Oh, you must go here, Jessica.

I'm going to try.

I'm going to try.

Audre is,

she's just giving everything.

And I don't think

well, yes.

I don't think I had really understood and appreciated the choice to take Rose's turn up,

which took it out of her comfort zone purposefully to show the anguish.

Because I really feel like this gypsy is exploring Rose as mentally ill.

And I think that's such an interesting and fascinating way to go to go about it.

And so I guess that's what I mean about like this stuff coming back.

And you're kind of like, you know, you hear about some things going on stage or some person being a part of some revival and you're like, why?

and then you see it you give the opportunity and you see why right and once upon a mattress is just a it's a fun

the jokes were hard yeah yeah yeah which is i find rare yeah um but you know it was it was great i mean it just opened my eyes to because because growing up colorado in the suburbs

so funny that you grew up in colorado with this suburb it's like i don't why is that weird why is that like why not but why not i just i think because i feel like you are such a urban

person.

Thank you.

Yeah, and urbane.

And

no, because I think, you know, I didn't, I didn't get to see you as you arrived.

Of course.

Unfortunately,

maybe, I bet you were, but, you know, you take on a little bit of something else.

I just, it's so funny because I, that's just

silly and small of me.

I don't know.

Suggesting that that won't exist in other parts of the, I just think of you very citified.

But between the three of us, it's like our essences have kind of like merged with the city.

You know what I mean?

It's

which probably happens wherever you go and stay.

Yeah.

I mean, absolutely.

But I've hit a milestone recently that I'm still not totally sure how I feel about, which is 34 years old officially hitting 17 years in the city.

So it's half my life.

Oh, wow.

So I'm like, oh.

Yeah.

This is, and you know what?

This is like a conversation that like Josh Sharp and I, our friend Josh and Coleskole and I have had like a few years ago where we're just like, gosh, are we just because our friends, there's this big exodus to LA?

I was going to ask you guys next, like, how is it that we've kept you in New York?

Like, is that

it's been work for me, but then, but then, but then, like, our friends are just like, are we just like the lifers here?

Are we just like the welcoming committee for any like new people who come?

And like, we're, we're there with like

the greeting package or something.

And now Matt's fully a New Yorker again, which I'm very, very happy about.

Can I ask you what neighborhood you live in?

Yeah, Yeah, I'm in Nolita.

Oh, you are?

Oh, interesting.

You didn't hear that as much lately.

You know what?

That's nice to hear.

So you're on the receiving end of the Elizabeth Gardens being saved.

I am.

I just found out about it today.

I have to tell you, I did get a little emotional because I thought, like, it's little Carrie Bradshaw.

Like, I kind of lived because I'm single and I'm feeling good about that again.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I'm.

Good.

Yeah.

And I feel like I'm.

Do you have a problem?

A pretty apartment.

Is it pretty?

You know what?

It's like Carrie's wise.

Is it really?

I love those apartments.

It's charming and it's comfortable.

Yeah.

And I am.

Are you walking up?

Yeah.

You're walking up.

No, I'm not walking up because it's a little bit more.

Do you have an elevator?

There is one elevator.

Oh, that's amazing on those streets.

Yeah, yeah.

Because those are smaller buildings.

It is.

It is my dream come true.

So I'm still exploring.

Okay.

So you might need to write some things down to the bottom.

Afterwards, that would make my life.

If I'm correct, because I know it is on the

one that goes east-west, I know it's on that street.

The cross street, I feel less confident about.

But if I'm right,

that is a sandwich shop.

Oh, that is.

But

it just says blah blah deli.

Like, it's not, it's a nothing.

Yeah.

Well, that's not true.

Everything is, but it's not like, I don't think people are lining up with their cameras and shooting it.

I think it's just the real deal.

It's a breeze.

You know what I mean?

Like, it feels exciting.

And I think, honestly, I got chased out of New York for a lot of like, you know, reasons for in here.

And then all of a sudden, I I felt like I was called home.

And I will say, it is harder day to day.

Yeah.

But it is so worth it.

Yeah.

Like, I find that New York, it does toss those challenges your way.

They're just like, well, I asked for this.

Yeah.

It's hot as hell.

I know.

You can't.

There's no swimming pool.

There's no, yeah.

There is no easy way to get places.

But I will say you're compelled.

Yeah.

And like, that's all I ever really,

it's like when I was little watching that show, I was compelled.

Yeah.

New York compels.

Yeah.

And I, during the pandemic,

of, oh, sorry, keep going.

No, just during the day, like being forced to be away.

Yeah.

I remember I came back and like, I walked the streets even though it was raining and I literally was having like an as if we said goodbye moment.

And I was just like, God.

And I was emotional because memories everywhere.

And you're only really ever going to have one home like that.

Yeah.

No, it's pretty, it's pretty special.

I wish it were more hospitable to those who feel

that kind of dream because it's just right now it's just it's very it's just prohibitive financially and um I would love for others to be able to

try to make it their home and and and have it be a real possibility and and maybe we will maybe we will find more affordable housing for our you know our communities and

you know like maybe that is

not insane because I think so I guess I feel like I want to go back for a second and just say

it's amazing that people are moving back to New York so somebody else I know just is moving back to back to New York I feel like it's such a that is such an that's a

unusual thing to be hearing yes so I feel as if we're not losing people in the same way we I think we well I felt we were that there is a kind of buoyancy maybe again, if not, if we're not 100%,

at least we don't seem like this forbidding forbidding place.

Sure.

So somewhere people are still thinking

you can maybe make it

happen there.

And I'm sure, just to go back to what we were talking about at the beginning of this episode, I'm sure what a lot of the projection that people throw at, people must, when they see you, when they get excited, they must dump a lot of that ambition and that, like, just that, the way that they wish the city was hospitalized.

You are a landmark.

You know what I mean?

I'm happy to be on the repository repository for the dumping.

That's all right.

That's all right.

That's a huge role.

But speaking of New York, how I and you brought Bridget Everett earlier.

How did you get to know those people, like Bridget, like Amy Sederis, like

Andy?

That is such a fun downtown crowd.

And like, I've always been curious about how you got in with them.

Okay, I'm trying to remember the order.

Amy and I met,

Matthew and I worshipped Amy Sederis.

We saw her, you know, on Letterman, basically, which is, she was like a regular, you know?

Anytime someone would cancel,

she was the greatest so this was um in the late 90s

and then so we really like together it was like the things we loved were the Yankees abfab

and Amy Sedaris and of course David but he wasn't making as many appearances on commercial television as Amy was but she was still nichey like it wasn't like you could walk the streets and talk about Amy Sedaris it was a it was much more valued like thing You can find your people in that reference.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Totally.

Kind of like Cole.

So then, yes.

So then Amy and I came to know each other because I was going to do a play off Broadway at MTC main stage.

I was going to do a play

that David Lindsay Abert play.

And it was his follow-up to Fuddy Mirrors, which is one of my most favorite shows ever, plays ever.

And we were supposed to start rehearsals on September 11th, 2001.

And we had made contact.

You know, I basically did it because Amy.

And I love David Lindsay Bear.

And

so we, that morning, I was up early to be on time for rehearsal and get to the subway.

And I was downstairs.

Matthew and I lived low, low Manhattan.

So we live south of Houston.

And

I was watching the Today Show getting ready for my first day of school.

And I

was

screaming at him and then I said I

have to go I'm gonna be late for rehearsal and uh he

he said

I don't think there is gonna be rehearsal today so I called Amy who I didn't really yet know and I said I'm worried about being late and she said

I don't think there's gonna be rehearsal today

um so anyway we became friends and we took the subway home together every day and we shared a dressing room and she very graciously just allowed us to infiltrate and she became a big part of our lives.

And I always said, and I'll repeat it, you know, that I always thought like

she always says that she's a wedge in our marriage.

But I was like, but they really have great chemistry.

And he really loves her so much.

Like he admires her so much.

And then Scotty Whitman used to do a bunch of plays.

He directed at La Mama and Cole was always in them.

Yes.

And Bridget was, or Ginger, as I call her.

And so then, and then Ginger would come out east all the time and stay.

And then she ended up just staying at our house for, I think she lived at our house for,

and you know, the world is, the social circles are

and you just keep bumping into people if you're lucky.

Yeah.

And if you are behaving basically as a decent person, you can stick around.

Right.

Yeah.

Did you, did you ever like.

It's pretty amazing, Cole.

I mean, like,

is there a better story in the world?

Can you think of one?

I'm probably not.

I mean, like, it's one of those things, too, where where

I got to say, it's always been like that.

We've always said that they were our hero.

Yeah.

Like, I remember that goes all the way back.

I mean, that's what people don't really know.

And I think they're knowing it now because there's a lot of press about Cole, but you know, truly always thinking like no one else.

Yes.

And that was what was so inspiring.

And, you know, it's funny, like.

We had to answer some interview questions earlier and it was like, who is your mentor?

And I was like, I just got to say, I don't really have mentors, but I do have these like influences.

And he was one of them.

And I just wonder for you, like, when you come to New York, were you seeing a lot of experimental stuff?

Like, were you seeing all of it?

Like, did you know Liz Suedos?

My brother was in the, my brother was in Runaways, the first original company.

She was my mentor too.

No way.

At NYU.

Yeah.

Oh, that's right.

Because so she taught there.

Okay.

So when I was doing Annie on Broadway, my brother was in Runaways down about four blocks down south, not even four blocks with Diane Lano.

He was in the original company.

He was a public and on Broadway.

Wow.

I auditioned for Runaways too.

Did not get it.

Nor should I have gotten it.

But so we met at 49th Street because we had to take the NNER to the tram every night.

So I loved Liv Suedos.

Oh, wow.

I love that show.

Make sure your listeners.

Pull up that cast album.

That cast album is incredible.

You know, there was an episode.

Do you know it?

I don't know Runaways.

He almost worked with

Lives.

Like many, many times.

I was very close.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, it's fine.

I honestly, like, I love honoring her on this podcast.

And she actually came up earlier today.

Did she really?

Well, just because we were answering those questions and they asked me that that mentor question and I was like, you know, trying to find it.

And I was a little frustrated with myself.

And then I realized that's who it was.

It was Liz because she just explored all these sides of me and like the way she let me see myself.

And I think that's what like great.

I think she was uniquely good at that, though.

She had a real energy.

And she, I remember she just, when I first auditioned for her.

Were you at Tish?

I was, but I wasn't an acting student.

I was a very, I don't want to make this about me at all.

I don't know.

Yeah, no, go, go, go.

I want to make sure that I'm not.

I was just a very, very closeted,

but like I said, very passionate

kid that wanted to do this.

And I think that she,

more than anyone else in my life, like allowed me to see myself as limitless.

And I do think that that's such a gift to give give someone who's a young performer is to like the knowledge that you can be anything.

Yeah.

And she really took away my fear and emboldened creativity in me and like made me aware of my stage presence.

And I, it was a way, it was like she would look you in the eyes and gave you a gift, even in just doing that.

Yeah.

And gave you fearlessness.

Yeah.

And

that is like, that's why I ask is because we're talking about these people that energetically really have her spirit.

Yeah.

And so I felt compelled to ask you about that.

Yeah, it's funny because I probably wouldn't otherwise.

She was really talented.

She was really, really talented and very,

you know,

if anyone can find their way to runaways and just really watch that show, it's a pretty freaking extraordinary show and it's brutal.

And what Josie de Guzman,

Diane,

Diane was young.

Toby, my brother Toby, who went on to do the original, he was in the original rent as well.

He did all of Jonathan's shows from like Naked Angels and Tic Tick Boom like that.

Dude, that's what I'm talking about.

And I loved the tick-tick-boom movie that Lynn Manuel did so much too, because it got that spirit.

I remember when he showed those rehearsal rooms, I felt like I could smell them.

Like the light coming in the window on those third-floor studios.

You know what I'm saying?

It just brought me so back.

And it's hard.

And I wonder, like, how do you remind yourself to be fearless when

you're

so established, I suppose?

Because I think that's something that we're running into is it's like, it's harder to be fearless as you become more established.

Yeah.

I don't know.

You just try to make interesting choices.

And,

you know, doing Plaza Suite was really terrifying.

It's just absolutely terrifying.

And playing, each of us, you know, we're playing three parts and

they're not anything like us.

They're not, it's a different generation and politics were different and women were different and sexual politics was different and

people sounded like where they were from.

There were regional accents and manner and behavior and it was absolutely terrifying, but I couldn't not do it.

So there are lots of ways in which you can stay,

well, feel like you've always felt.

Like, what is the job?

Right.

What, how will it, what?

I mean, the only difference now is,

you know,

how long is it taking me away from my family?

At this point,

that's the only new

part of the math of making decisions.

It's pretty much all the same.

It's just

glowing together.

I remember I talked because she went with James Cully.

Oh, great.

And we were watching it, and just there's a moment, I believe it's the top of act two, where you come out in the blue dress.

Oh, yeah.

And the audience is just euphoric.

We're seeing you in this outfit.

And we looked at each other like, well, come on.

And I mean, like, but, and then just like the kinetic energy that you guys have together.

You really are incredible scene partners.

And I wonder.

We never really worked together.

That was a good idea.

That was kind of

so nervous making.

That opportunity is brave in and of itself.

I would imagine there's something courageous and like, okay, I'm going to like...

It was kind of scary just because, I mean, it was scary for all the reasons that I'm always nervous every time I get a job or do a job or start a job.

I'm always like basically not really functioning as a...

calm person.

Like the first two or three weeks of every job are just awful.

They're really incredibly unpleasant.

Well, is it like, ugh.

Really?

Yeah, just nervous and sick and like, not sick, but like,

yeah, there's something in your body that's like, is it like that even when you revisit Carrie?

Every single season.

Really?

Really?

Because I was going to ask, I'm always sort of struck by the idea.

Do you feel that?

Not every season, SNL?

No, not at all.

I mean, I'm just like perpetually nervous and that just hasn't changed.

Me too.

No, no, no.

But I asked Cynthia this.

I was like, was it, what was the reacclamation to Miranda?

And she was like, no, she's kind of in me.

I was like, that's incredible.

But I was, I'm always struck by the idea that you never watched dailies.

Most of Sex in the City you haven't seen back.

Is part of the answer to the question that Matt's asking, is it to eliminate the things that would engender fear?

Because,

yeah, to watch, to watch yourself back is a bit more difficult.

It's not productive for me.

It makes it, and it is for Cynthia.

Like, Cynthia is a perfect example of someone who can watch dailies and have it be helpful, useful.

And for me, it's paying attention.

I just want to be, I just want the work to be good.

Like, I don't need to see a play back on the set ever.

I don't need to see dailies.

If there's something radically wrong, I'm going to have known about it long before that work comes back from the studio the next day.

I will have felt it on the set.

There is, I have so,

I have like, I'm like a whippet.

You know, I'm like, so

like this I want so much for the work to be good that anything

that feels peripheral isn't helpful to me it's not candor it's not I think it's honesty I think you are I think you really do seek honesty I really

would say that she can seek honesty from those dailies but I just we're just made differently

process right right but is in the absence of that sort of reflection um like what is your way of tracking Carrie through all the years?

Talking to Michael all the time,

asking a lot of, not asking questions, because I'm not a trained actor.

So I'm not asking questions.

I'm not asking subtext questions, which I keep to myself.

I'm asking questions

sort of like a, for instance, of, but if, but if she's saying that,

or she's behaving this way, or she makes this gesture, or she wears

that, then don't we want to be thoughtful about that?

Or if you're asking, if it's written this way,

is there, like, is there a landmine on the way to the next

thing?

And sometimes Michael Patrick will say to me, you don't know what I know.

And I'll say, I don't.

And I don't want to.

Like, I don't like to read the script until the night before the table read because I have so much work to do in this present moment that if I start, sorry, knowing what Carrie's going to do next,

then I'm like,

not here.

Or he'll say to me, wow, that's a, I didn't see that.

You're right.

That's a good point.

Wait a minute.

Let me think about that.

Maybe we should back off that.

Or maybe you're right to pay attention to the kind of language here because maybe we don't, like I'm very, I'm always on them about language.

I'm like, she's writer, she's writer, she's a writer.

So she'd be thoughtful about the way she's expressing things.

Like, does she use the F word a lot?

Maybe not, because she's always

considering

and considering and her observational life has been like her

meal ticket yeah yeah so i want to be thoughtful about language because it's the only way she's in the world thoughtful literally full of thoughts right yes and i it's that's really interesting especially because you're talking about how like so that's how i jacket sorry i love that i love that but you're in the in speaking about like literally the character of carrie browser one of the things that i think is so incredible about carrie is that she is far from perfect.

She'd be very easy to judge.

And I wonder.

I wonder how people do.

No, well,

I wonder how many times she's

a good thing.

But I'm saying that that's the point.

I mean, but literally, she made, I think, one of the most famous mistakes in television history.

What are you talking about?

Well, when she cheated.

You know what I mean?

Like men have been doing forever.

Well, yes, but I know.

As leads on shows and in movies, and people were like, I love him.

This is the actual question I'm asking asking: how much do you judge her?

And how much are you like, Carrie, when she does something that you don't like?

I mean, she's a fictional character.

Well, yes.

I think people make mistakes, and smart people do silly, stupid things, and they use poor judgment, and they fall really short often.

Yeah.

The best of us

fall short.

And, you know, we

forgive us our trespasses if we forgive those who does.

I mean, I kind of think if Carrie Bradshaw were somebody who was absolutely reliable to

resist,

in that instance, the temptation of Big and Big, who followed her around, who orbited in a solar system that seemed to only include the two of them.

Narcissistic abuse.

You know, who made me apparently that's a new,

those are new words for me.

But I

and then I'm not entirely sure what is the show.

Like, who is this person if she is only

making really solid, predictable choices and choosing.

And it's not a recipe for all of us to live by.

That's what makes it,

it's like there's an altered state to sex in the city.

There's like, it's not entirely,

the emotional life is rooted in truth, but its existence has always felt to me like

slightly technicolore.

Yeah.

On a higher vibration.

Altered.

Yeah.

Like the city looked

like this.

Yeah.

And the clothes look like this.

And there's like a time warp of

like time suspends and you can be with people you love for long periods of time which does not exist for all of us no matter how much we love our friends and love has this sort of like

extra dose of some kind of

adrenaline

fueled

ridiculous consuming love consuming yeah we were what does she say to him i want love i want ridiculous i am someone who is looking for love and that and that ridiculous

love and if you want

it's great we can't have

i mean you don't spend time on hbo being perfect no and one of my favorite characters in the world is tony soprano like forever and but that is not a man who made great joy like curious how many people did not interrogate those same things about him nor should they have because it was just beautiful writing and brought us into the life of somebody who we wouldn't normally feel such compassion for.

I'm not comparing.

I'm just saying it's curious

how little tolerance we have for a woman

falling short.

Of course it's that, but also it's like we project on to Carrie because we want to be her, whereas like we really don't want to be Tony Soprano.

So there's a there's no maybe we want to be Jimmy like there was something really well yeah.

I guess the intensity and the complexity.

Yes.

It's almost like I feel like when people can expect something of you, like you can fail them.

And I think that Carrie Bradshaw is an aspirational.

This is why it's my, I asked the initial question of like, that must feel sometimes a little intense because she is the woman who took over New York and

started, you know, smoking her cigarettes, taking off her shoes on the street.

And now, you know, we've seen her all these years and we've been with her, yet we didn't need to see all her growth to, from the beginning, know that we wanted to be her, be one of of her friends are you a carrier miranda charlotte or a samantha you know what i mean that's a question for a reason and so when that is true my opinion is that is why we're often hard on people because but i wouldn't do that and i'm carrie i assure you

you know what i mean yeah that's so interesting i wouldn't do that but i'm carried yeah yeah i've never heard that that's really great and i'm not privy to all of the chatter so i'm just um kristen davis always like keeps me posted in ways that sometimes I'm like,

you don't have to tell me that

yeah, I don't want to hear what anyone has to say, right?

Right, plus, which it's not, it doesn't help me, no, but I'm thrilled that people have feelings, like, how great, of course, right?

The treat, the treat of watching Carrie now is just that you're like, and this is just a testament to your acting, which I can't really quite still can't square with the fact that you don't watch anything back.

It's just that, like,

this is, this is Carrie, this is Carrie like

decades in in this beautiful way, you know, it's like, it's still like, I mean, this last episode with Carrie and Aiden, it was, it was the perfect extrapolation of like what like I

watched as a non-New Yorker

now thinking, oh, but that's, that's Sarah Jessica, that's Sarah Jessica, like,

like shepherding this, this person into like, across time in a way that I think, I don't know, we that we love.

And we should say, when we're talking about the scene with Aiden, we are, this will come out in a few weeks.

So like, we are a little bit behind something may have happened with Aiden since.

We're talking about Carrie.

Again, I didn't love that she did this, but gave him the goddamn key.

I was like, you really are giving these men the access.

And then we're going to be like,

I know she has to believe, but she has to want more for herself, too.

Yeah, but then, and then we did watch on the way here.

Um, I knew you would do this.

I'm humiliated.

I'm humiliated.

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Can we just talk about filming that?

Like the wedding sequence.

The library.

The library, which obviously had to have meaning for you as well, because you're so close to it.

And then here you are creating this iconic thing.

But like,

you don't watch that back, that sequence?

Because you really killed it, girl.

I really remember, I remember, you know,

we had to, we had to, Michael really wanted us to

go to the premiere and sit through it.

And Don.

So

you did see that?

I did.

It wasn't like pleasant, but meaning like, I don't want to watch myself for that long

and also is that

that scene i remember really shooting because we were trying to um i'll have this piece of tape off by the time i finish um we were trying to um

protect the plot like which was crazy thought that we could do it on 43rd street between sixth and fifth um and we were all like they had us in a hotel room as you know they do they got to put you somewhere while they're setting up the shot and so we were all in a hotel room together waiting to shoot that scene and um

i didn't know how

you know there's so much and you both are you're actors so you know there's like a huge amount of thinking you can do about something and some people prepare really prepare and i think about things a lot and i learn my lines but i don't really have a set plan because

it's so much about the other party.

Like I can have all the plans in the world, but that means that it's potentially,

it's likely I'm not hearing a goddarn thing you're saying or doing.

Totally.

So I had no idea how we were going to do this scene.

I had no idea how I was going to be.

Yeah, not on the page either at all.

No.

And

it's just, I think that's a really great example of.

Michael Patrick, like really setting the table and teeing it all up really, really well and just calling action and not getting in anybody's way.

There was no right or wrong way.

I didn't hear him in my head saying I knew it, whatever those lines were, I knew you were going to do this or whatever.

But there was so much truth.

I think the entire time in my head, now that I'm recalling this, was this

probably

this fear that he actually was

not going to show up.

Like there was going to be a part of him, even a psychic part of him that didn't show up.

So anyway, that scene and just people around and us trying not to have anyone take pictures of the flowers and the petals, right?

And those were real, real flowers, the thorns and everything on the stems.

I mean, those were real roses for all their beauty and all their danger.

Wow, it's so brilliantly directed.

Wait, we were just watching it, and I was like, Cynthia, here.

Oh my God, Kim.

At least see what Christian's doing.

And just that.

How about when Christian just says, No,

no, and wait, wait, did I do it?

I was like, No, it was primal.

Primal.

And

I wanted to know: do you remember?

This is an insane question.

Were there two no's in the script?

Or was

I think there was one?

The second one is so cute.

I think

it's reality.

I'm going to ask Kristen.

I'll call you guys later and ask Kristen.

She'll remember exactly.

It's just iconic.

And that dress that she can barely walk in.

It's, what's his name?

Zach.

It's Zach Posin's dress.

Yeah.

That black box.

And I love it.

And the little comedic beat at the end of her tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip.

She doesn't have any movement.

I love it.

And that's, that's also, that's so specific.

That's Kristen, though.

I have to say, like, that's how Kristen is about us.

Yeah.

Like, don't mess with us.

Yeah.

Meaning, she will not let anyone hurt us.

She will jump in front of a bear, a train, a bull.

That is her.

It was a mission statement for that character.

Like, that protection.

And also just, like, you know, the way that every character was like immediately filling into a utility to protect

like everybody had their job.

It was just yeah i remember that about it yeah just the way that cynthia looks at him afterwards like so deeply because i always thought that the relationship between miranda and big was always fascinating yes because they're they're like i feel like

miranda always saw big

always knew something that everyone didn't and of course it was informed by like you know sort of like the version that carrie would tell either of them about oh miranda said this today, or Big said this today.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's why, and maybe I have this wrong, and we don't have to spend more time on this, but I think that's why it's so,

I'm not, I'm not, I don't expect you guys to know the answer to this, but it's possible that Miranda says, go get our girl.

When Carrie's in Paris with Petrovsky, I think she's the one that says to Big, go get our girl.

Which is interesting that she is basically endorsing Carrie and Big.

Totally.

You know, also

including herself in that arrangement of our.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's one of the best.

And what you're describing on the day is even though you're saying there's no process, the process is led by a candor, you know, by this honesty that you just don't, you need to know what Chris is going to do or not to know what he's going to do, but you need to just play off of what he's going to do.

Or what, you know.

The best thing you can do as an actor, it's the best thing is to not be too prepared.

Be prepared.

I feel that way too.

Be on time.

Be on time.

On time.

Be on time.

time learn your lines yeah know your lines i don't care what genre of filmmaking you're at unless you're doing unless it's entirely improvised sure sure other than that

well you know and then just listen see what happens it's the best well another show i loved i loved divorce um but i worked with i worked with molly shannon on a show called i love that for you and i remember like we were in the makeup trailer one day and she looked at me and she goes how much do you look at the line

and i go don't throw her into the bottom no no no no it's i'm definitely knows

her line she does have her notes in her yes script when she's walking around with the script and she's got all of her i love the way she loves to orient herself i learned a lot from her yes i learned so much from her right isn't she great well obviously bowen's worked with her now several times so she's gone back but you know when she said how what what was your answer when she asked that question i was like you know what i'm getting because i again i tend to drive my i'm very hard on myself.

And I would leave.

It was my first series regular job, and I wanted to do a

good job.

And I think that,

you know, again, I don't want to do that.

I bet you myself, but Jennifer Lewis.

You wanted to do better than a good job.

And that you do the best.

Yeah, I do want to.

Of course, of course.

So basically, like

Jennifer Lewis.

There was a day when Jennifer Lewis.

We say, Jennifer Lewis.

Yes, Jennifer Lewis.

That's the only way we say her name.

One of my biggest bummers is that the episode that she came on this podcast,

you were out.

and so but i want them to meet so bad because i just want to see that interaction jennifer lewis but she said to me one day she was like you're too hard on yourself

you're too you're too hard on yourself and you she just like was like she was like and people like you know just you have to know you have it and so molly asked me that question and i was like you know what i'm learning to drive myself less crazy about it because i find you do know it yeah you know what i mean if you're the kind of person who wants to show up and do a good job to begin with you're going to do a job you do know it and so so sometimes I think it's important to preserve that freshness.

A little bit of tingle.

Yeah.

A little bit of like

the characters.

Dijé Frisson.

The frisson.

Fresh from the love of it.

But no, but it does feel like the character doesn't know what they're about to say.

Right, I know.

So it's that fine line of being prepared and being completely.

Yeah, like a raw nerve.

But Molly was, it was just interesting.

I made that connection that you guys had worked together in a show I loved.

Yeah, she's really great.

I tell young actors,

and this was before I had listened to Barbara Streison's book on tape, the only book I've ever listened to, not on tape, but an audio version.

Yeah, it's pretty great.

But

I think Molly's

memoir is

the greatest.

Like, if you can't get to an acting class and you can't get to an acting school, that is not a possibility for you.

Read her book.

It is a handbook for young actors.

I think it's, first of all, it's just, I mean, not surprisingly, it's brilliantly written.

It's so funny and so clearly

her voice, but

her scrappiness and her persistence, not actually unlike Barbara Streisens, who was like, I'm just, I'm going to get in that class.

I don't care.

I will get in that class if I have to lie about my age.

If I don't lie about my age, if I do this, if I babysit for the acting teacher, if I, all the ways in which she worked toward molly had the same kind of grit and the same kind of endless gumption yeah it's amazing yeah anyway literally throwing herself into it

yeah yeah okay we're gonna throw ourselves into i don't think so honey oh my gosh um this is anytime i've seen this the studio seems so big and

i didn't realize the studio's so small and i guess the way you guys shoot it which is so funny to say for a podcast but like the separation because often,

wait, are you more separated from each other sometimes?

Are you ever separated?

Sometimes we're on this side to the other side.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because sometimes they're shooting.

I guess it's your, right?

So it's pretty much funny to

see you together.

Sometimes I do like being over there.

I do like being over there sometimes, but this feels right.

This is pretty preferred that today?

No, I love this.

Okay, okay.

We can start over again.

You want to take it from the top?

All right, so what do you want me to do?

Well, so we're going to go first and then.

Oh, you're going to have one.

Yes, we're all doing it.

So excited.

Almost, that makes me really scared because yours are no doubt likely going to be very funny, snarky, fast.

Come on.

You'll get a little bit of a single thing.

Well, now you're setting a bar.

We're trying to meet.

Exactly.

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I don't think so, honey.

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So this is our 60-second segment for those just joining us.

The SJP fans that are just coming by lost coach because the icon herself is here.

But 60 seconds to ran rael against something in pop culture that's getting

pop culture.

No, it's anything.

Please, you'll tell me if I've.

I can't wait to hear you.

Yes, yes.

I have takes because I'm a fan.

Here we go.

Oh, this is Matt Rodgers.

I don't think so, anyways.

Time starts now.

I don't think so, honey.

Carrie Bradshaw, I think you needed to give Paris a few more weeks back in the day.

I have to say, because I don't think so, honey, big, I never did.

I, like Miranda, saw you from the beginning, sir.

And I do have the words for it now.

It was narcissistic abuse.

Rest in peace,

but still.

I also don't think so, honey, Aiden.

Wait for me five years sir

carrie i sjp i know you're not her but you have a direct line to her carrie you are a target for narcissists no and let me tell you something about who carrie bradshaw is 30 seconds carrie bradshaw is someone who is looking for love

and i don't think that it's here

in this beautiful city

in that townhouse infested with rats 15 seconds in manhattan i think you got to go back to Paris.

And I got to say, now, like you going to give me some New York recommendations in my new area.

Five seconds.

I think I could give you some Parisian recommendations.

Silencio, it says it's a gay club.

It's not.

You're going to do great.

Lots of wonderful straight guys there, Carrie, and they're not big in Aiden, which is perfect for me.

I don't think so, honey.

And that's one minute.

Wow.

Okay.

I don't want to go.

No, you got to go.

I'll go.

And I'm going to bring us down.

It's so bad.

Can I tell you something?

It's so funny.

No, who cares?

And all it has to be is spirited.

You can cut it out.

No, we can't.

Chat it up.

Chop it up.

Make it better.

They're going to see the timestamps.

They're going to know that we fucked with it.

First of all, you guys are...

You're.

I'm going to take a left turn.

You go.

This is yeah.

You go.

This is going to be a little bit of a turn.

You time handle hold up.

This is going to be a little bit of a drive.

I know.

Isn't that the cutest pop socket?

It's a little bit.

He was dragging

pop socket.

But this is also a fidget spinner.

That's a fidget spinner.

It's a fidget spinner on a pop socket.

Let's show the girls.

Let's show the girls.

Look at that, y'all.

Isn't that just a girl?

That's really pretty.

Well, he's a Pokemon fanatic.

That's really, really pretty.

All right.

Oh.

It's my baseball.

It's my Yankees.

I mean, you look down at the text and there's a lot.

Oh.

Are you serious?

Oh, yeah.

It's okay.

You mean from the world?

Just CNN breaking some news.

Oh, anyways.

It won't be topical now.

But just know there's

bullshit.

Breaking some

okay this is bowen yangs i don't think so honey and his time starts now i don't think so honey when someone asks if you're free on a certain night without telling you what they are inviting you to or pressuring you to do narcissistic abuse that is a form of entrapment legally that is a form of entrapment you are not allowed to do that i need to know what you are asking me to commit to before i tell you whether or not i'm free because i might need the night to myself to stay in.

I mean, but I think we, I, in the royal I sense, 30 seconds.

And we just have to moratorium on that for a little bit before we, before we know a way forward, I think there should be legislation behind this.

I mean, you're allowed to cancel in all their free time.

No, please.

No, you get three seconds.

You get your free time back.

And it's like, but then, but then the person feels like they, they're giving you your time back, which is also kind of a weird directional sort of way of framing it.

And I just think we need to be more transparent about what the proposal is when we're inviting our friends out.

And that's one minute.

And also,

that was really good, guys.

That was both, both of those were great.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Those are great.

But it can be anything.

But, but listen, what I'm saying about this is, and when I say to you in response to what are you doing this night, and you don't qualify it with any information, and my response is, well, what's going on or why?

I'm not rude.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I think it's a perfectly fair question.

Yes.

I think it's a perfectly fair response.

Why, hey, why?

I'm not sure yet.

Why?

Yeah.

They won't let you.

I'm not sure.

Yeah, they won't.

They won't.

They won't.

They won't.

The government.

I still think

we're going to use it.

Yeah, do it.

I know you sound Stern like you can't really use that anymore.

I just kind of grew out of it.

I was like working on some other stuff.

Yeah.

You know, I was

trying out some other stuff.

I went to Carolyn's comedy over there.

I went to seller.

No, I was just working.

I try to work on some other stuff.

Sometimes I just say the government,

which is also equally as like disorienting.

Yes, for the person that asks government, especially now when it's like, maybe it's true.

It might be.

It might be.

You know, we were at the Beyoncé concert in

Paris.

And wow, that's why you guys.

No, you were there.

Well, we were there to do the Cannes Lion.

Oh, God.

And so for our culture awards, and we had a wonderful experience there.

It was very exhausting and a lot.

We had never been.

Well, he had been to Can a couple of years ago, but I had never been.

It was

wow.

It it was intense and wow

and then we had we took a little i guess a sojourn to um how did you choose how did you know to choose a marae oh we just we had a one

bc travel oh that's right you said bc travel

b-e-c-b-s-e-e travel and um

let us in a lovely area and um we were like well if we're gonna be there the same time as beyonce we're gonna go see beyonce yeah and you know we didn't get the miley cyrus night but we did get the jay-z night which was special and it's in its own right to be certain.

But some people were coming up and Boeh was trying out.

Can we do it at the end?

I said, let's do it on the way out.

Let's do it on the way out.

That's great.

I've done that.

I said, on your way out, make sure you stop by.

Or I do.

I say on my way out, I'll stop by.

And I always do stop by and say hello, but I dissuade them that a picture has any.

I'm like, let me disavow you of that idea.

Exactly.

That has no value at all.

This

is valuable.

This is good.

That's the thing.

You want to be able to say, oh, I had this special bespoke interaction instead of I have this like picture that's kind of floppy.

Yeah, it's not a very great picture.

You know,

they're never going to be that great of pictures.

I know.

Everyone's tense.

Yeah, yeah.

Everyone's tense.

No one's comfortable.

But, you know,

everyone's

comfortable and not tense for what we're about to do and witness.

Which is Sarah just to say that.

Okay, I just want to say

you

that

a couple things.

Okay.

The first thing I'm going to say is that I have been preoccupied with

family stuff.

So as much as I've wanted to really

think about

this and have it be the sole focus

of getting this right, I have not had the kind of time I typically devote to something I care about.

That's number one.

Number two,

I don't want to have a beef with anybody.

That's not a good idea.

I don't want to hire somebody that is just, nothing chaps my ass.

Nothing rubs me the wrong way.

I don't really carry around grudge.

So this was labor, like to try to find someone

that really bothers me is so anathema.

And here you are.

Just don't bother me.

And here you are.

This is anathema to you.

And I think it'll be an interesting thing.

Guys, I don't even know if it's even close to a minute long.

And I'm going to, if it's,

whatever it is, it's going to bag it.

It's really bad.

And no, by the way, you've just plussed it so much with these glasses.

They're incredible.

You've plussed it with the glasses.

These are amazing.

Pay attention to the glasses and not to the words.

No.

Now, I saw Tina Fey, the great,

runner read.

So listen, and there's no rule against that.

That's what I've got to do at ease.

I don't think so, honey.

Yes.

And you bookend it with, I don't think so.

You would like.

You don't have to end on it.

No, no, no.

You should.

You should.

I don't think so, honey, should begin the piece.

Okay.

And it should end the piece.

And if it can come checker throughout the piece, I'm going to try, but

there's

a lot of people.

If you ever have me back for no reason at all, because I think we've basically

covered me, then talk to you about a litany of subjects.

I will

do better.

No,

I haven't heard it.

We haven't even heard it.

This is.

And I'm afraid everyone's covered this topic, but it's the only thing in the whole world that bothers me.

Nothing bothers me.

Oh my God.

A title of F.

Title of F.

This is Sarah Desktop Progress.

I don't think so, honey.

Your time starts now.

I don't think so, honey.

Talking everywhere too loud on your phone.

We, in fact, don't want to hear your very important business call

regarding upcoming merger,

potential buyout,

the internecian workplace battles with Doug or Stacey or Kate.

I don't think so, honey.

We don't actually care whether we learn the inner workings of your psyche as you scream into your airsticks

or into your speakerphone or with the phone pressed to your ears.

Nonetheless, both parties back and forth forth amplified for all to hear.

I don't think so, honey.

We know you are no doubt a very important person, man.

And though you may think your baritone dulcet tones are a gift to your fellow citizen on the train, bus or terminal D, gate 27,

or your abuse of the quiet car, even or even the unsuspecting pedestrian you share a corner with as we wait for the walk sign, who is on the receiving end of your screaming instructions to a co-worker, family member, or hotel receptionist.

Hotel receptionist as you bully for the room with the ocean view.

No, Bradley, I don't think so, honey.

What you might consider a gift for those whose unfortunate path you cross is more so a punishment.

I don't think so.

Public spaces don't qualify as working from home, Teddy.

We are not inspired, motivated, impressed, or swooning.

So, bro.

Bro, with all due, nothing cooler or hotter than a guy who knows when to use his indoor voice that's crushing it I don't think so honey yes one minute that's to all you mr.

Biggs out there what are you talking about that was it felt like I was hearing it was euphoric for us a euphoric

12 ounce of liquid constantly but now it's so hot I felt like that would be a criticism of people being properly drinking you're just trying to stay hydrated but you know what it is grotesque it is too big and all these little positive affirmations on the bottle.

We don't need that.

You're a grown person.

You know, you don't need that.

What was the audition song, by the way?

Nothing.

Nothing from a chorus line.

Nothing.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

I do think, I think a chorus line ending on one is actually quite iconic.

I love that number.

God, so good.

But can I?

Do you have that experience where everybody, not everybody, specific types, typically speaking, are on their phone too loud?

Oh, 100%.

And

I would say that there is something, I just wonder what's happening in private that's so boring that they need to perform.

Because that's really what it is.

They never had their little Horace Line hairspray moment.

Right.

They didn't never, they just, you know what I mean?

That's their standard.

Have you ever seen the fellow that sits in the old days, probably before there was security issues, in the gate area and answers the person on the phone who's talking?

I do that now.

That's funny.

I wish I could pull up a tape.

I do it now.

And my children are like, please, mama, don't do that.

Please.

So if someone's on the phone saying, well, Bob, you know, can you make it in seven days?

They're like, I'll try to make it.

I answer.

Oh, that's great.

And after a minute, it's so confusing to the person who is loudly having this important call at gate B27.

Anyway, watch that guy.

He's, it's, I don't know, if you're a fan of, what's the show?

Candid Camera like that.

It's louder.

Okay, that's basically my, this is this.

That's that.

I mean, this is that.

This is that.

The kids these days don't know about candid camera before TikTok.

Candid Camera.

Oh, it's so good.

And I will say that in Paris, there was a woman in our, you know, my room wasn't quite ready, so I was killing, I was killing about an hour.

And it really sticks out when there's a clearly American person.

It wasn't a man, but this American American was screaming on the phone.

And I was like, it really,

and all these French people just turning their nose.

Oh, it's so awful.

It's so

especially like egregiously.

Yes, it's really something when you are with someone too, who's doing it.

Yeah.

And you can't.

I remember

I was on a date one time, and we were in a very crowded place going home.

And he was loudly explaining to me when he learned the difference between a hard no and a soft no over email.

And I'm going to use a provider, but forgive me, but the the woman in front of us turned around and made eye contact with me like this

and all she was saying with her eyes was you cannot I don't think so

yes

I don't think so honey

like I know

I look back and I go

don't worry I was like this is a one-arm tug and a sayonara at the end of this I don't think so, honey.

Loudly going on about it.

And I'm like, oh my God, where am I?

Am I in the matrix right now or something?

She was, she was, she was helpful.

She was huge.

I'm not forget her.

That's great.

She's a gold colour.

That's very sweet.

You know, and only in New York, only New York.

And we are so lucky that you came and joined us today.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you for coming on.

I said so many, many, many, many, many, many, many months ago, literally, I think last,

whenever we rapped, I said, you know, I was trying to figure out like, how do you talk about a show today?

Like, what makes sense?

What matters what there's just so much um but i was like

this is what i want to do i wanted to do this show so much because i really i love

what you're both doing together and separately and um it's you know there's always the thing that feels fresh and people are figuring out ways of like giving us information and stuff but um

so i just i'm you know i was hoping that it would be something that you guys would be hospitable to.

So

thank you so much for having me.

I really, really appreciate it.

It's been so much fun.

It's so special to get to talk to you.

Thank you.

It really is.

Thank you.

It's a boon when you embrace.

Yes.

It's a boon when you're, when you embrace these things, like you going on all these shows is, is very, very affirming for people who podcast or in the podcasting space.

We're like, oh, we get to talk to someone as compelling and wonderful as us.

And we do have a lot of mutual friends.

We We do.

Yeah, we do.

So our paths have to cross

with more vigor or more intent.

Tension.

Yeah.

Yes, yes.

Yes.

And they will.

Yeah.

And you know, next time I see Matthew at a Metropolitan Movement.

I can just call up and say, I just saw, I was going to say, I didn't bother him this time because he was like next to Steve and everything.

And I was just like, you know, there.

But I did just watch Election

and we've just talked.

And it's so good.

And Charisse is such an icon in it.

He's so good.

He's so good.

He's so still.

Did you have a crush on Ferris Bueller?

I thought he was great.

Very quickly, I went to see Ferris Bueller with a young Martha Plimpton.

She was

staying with me and we got to the theater at the Gulf and Western building, which is

just, you know, at Columbus Circle.

You know what that building's called.

Of course, yeah.

Yeah.

It was Gulf and Western building my whole.

childhood and into young adulthood.

And there was a theater, a movie theater underneath.

It was a Paramount movie theater.

And we went to see it.

I was with a fellow at at the time and Martha was sleeping over a bunch and we got to the theater.

And I remember she told me she forgot her wallet and I was like, dang.

But so we all saw Ferris Bueller together, which was amazing.

And then I was shooting Footloose

when a movie, when I think Project X came out and another movie of his.

And on my day off, I read Rented a Bike and I rode up.

you know, to whatever in Provo to the movie theater and stop.

So I was seeing all his movies, but not because I was like.

Enamored.

No, I loved his work.

and I thought Ferris Bueller was like

otherworldly.

Yeah, like

I'd never seen someone talk to the

other one.

Do you have a kiss for Daddy?

He's so good.

He's really great.

Hey, if you're watching, but you're probably watching the Mets.

And I don't blame you.

And let's go, Mets.

And let's go, Mets.

Let's go, Mets.

What is that?

Meet the Mets.

Meet the Mets.

Get to the pen.

Wow, kind of

melody.

I'm listening.

The one I was humming was the one from 660.

Oh,

Orange Radio 66.

I'm not saying in New York.

Remember that?

That's all.

You have all the other songs that I don't have.

Wait, which one are you thinking?

Metza, Nana?

I don't know.

It's the Metza.

I don't know.

Something with the Metza.

It's AM 660.

I don't know.

May A.

I guess the 60s.

I find that.

You know, we end every episode with a song.

Do we?

We do.

Oh,

Bawn and I shred it.

We shred it.

But it's different every day.

Of course you shred it.

That's why I shred it.

And the mirror had a chance

today.

And for more of that, you can maybe catch it at the Jimmy Awards or just, you know, get up to the library.

Stream a Chorus Limes.

Stream a Chorus Limited.

Stream of Chorus Limes.

2025.

Lost Culture Reasis is the production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeartRadio Podcasts.

Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

Executive produced by Ana Hosniye and produced by Becca Ramos.

Edited and mixed by Doug Babe and Monique Labord.

And our music is by Henry Kabirski.

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Hey, big news for all you platonic fans.

Season two is officially out on Apple TV Plus.

If you missed season one, here's the gist.

Seth Rogan and Rose Byrne, legends, play a pair of platonic besties, just like Matt and I, who are a total disaster together in the funniest way.

I can't wait to see that.

Luke McFarlane.

Well, now I'm really excited.

Luke and Carla Gallo.

Okay,

get me to the theater.

I mean, the show.

The TV.

The TV.

See, the thing is, Apple TV Plus is like watching a movie in your own home.

Everything on there is so excellent.

And And you'll spot some familiar faces from SNL, like Adie Bryant.

I know her.

Season two of Platonic is now streaming on Apple TV Plus.

It's hilarious.

Go check it out.

Get into the Hyundai Getaway Sales Event and get away with a deal so right it almost feels wrong.

Because right now, you can get huge savings on Hyundai's most popular models.

Score a great deal on Hyundai's award-winning SUVs like Kona, Tucson, Santa Fe, and Palisade.

The Technology Pack Delantra and their most advanced Sonata yet.

And the all-electric IONIC 5 and IONIC 6.

But getting away with massive savings is just the beginning because every Hyundai is backed by America's best warranty and complementary maintenance.

Visit hyundaiusa.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details.

Offers end September 2nd, 2025.

This is an iHeart podcast.