Episode 594: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part I - Dorp on Devil

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Go CC over here, baby. Yeah, CC.
What, though? I'm fucking excited to get to Europe this weekend with you guys. Oh, yes.
This is going to be great. Fucking wait, dude.

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Speaker 2 We'll see you there very, very soon. Oh, God.
You're so fucking pumped to those evil bastards. Well, today we're not talking about Europe.
Today, we're talking about South Africa

Speaker 2 for the Krugersdorp cult murders. Yay!

Speaker 2 Yeah, we're back to cults. It's been forever since we've done a cult.

Speaker 2 It's been a really long time, and we were looking for a suitably spooky topic for the end of October because we always kind of go back and forth like last year we did we did Madame La Laurie yeah which turned out about to be like like spookier in like a human pain yeah over time she was cute she wouldn't know

Speaker 2 we did I not remember you quite you might be you might have some fuzzy memory you know we've covered some we did a lot of spooky this year and so we're like well what do we want to do it's like it's been so long since we found a good spooky cult and I will say this is one of those times when the booze and all the weed I consume really helps.

Speaker 2 Because I was just looking on through dang Amazon Prime and I saw the word Devil's Dorp.

Speaker 2 As soon as I saw the word Devil's Dorp, I thought it was going to be something like a famous comedian on his knees with his shoes on his knees.

Speaker 2 Like he's got the short legs and he's playing like an evil version of a tiny devil. Yes, that's what I thought.
That is legitimately what I thought.

Speaker 2 I thought Devil's Dorp was like a murderous gnome.

Speaker 2 That's what, I mean, that's right. It called to me.
And then when I clicked upon it, I realized, oh, this is one of the more compelling stories I have heard in a minute.

Speaker 2 And it's a cult, and it's involved in Satanism. And it allows me to come in and defend Satan from idiots.
Yeah, see, what I made a mistake. I researched the Battle of Kruger, which is just a blast.

Speaker 2 You know, like,

Speaker 2 oh, yeah. Have you never watched The Battle of Kruger? No.
Oh, my God. Do yourself a favor.
Google Battle of Kruger. It's a bunch of lions versus Will-Debeast and a crocodile justice.
Oh, yes.

Speaker 2 I was going to ask, is this an animal war? I know exactly what this is. It is a full animal war.
It's tigers versus crocodiles. It's lions versus crocodiles and Will-Debeast.

Speaker 2 The Wild-ebeasts, spoil alert, do pretty good.

Speaker 2 Well, guess what? The Wild-easts in this story do pretty well as well.

Speaker 2 Will the Beast murder a bunch of people?

Speaker 2 We'll find out today. No, Christ himself.
Yes. Rock and roll, man.
Jesus fucking kills, man. Yeah, this is the only fucking series we've ever done where Jesus fucking really kills.
Yeah, man.

Speaker 2 Well, the Kruger's Dorp cult murders were a fascinating set of killings that occurred between 2012 and 2016 in the titular South African mining community of Krugersdorp.

Speaker 2 Do you know what that means, Krugerstown? Dorp is town? Yep. So Devil's Dorp would be Devil's Town.
That's why it's cool. Oh, they were living in a Devil Town.
You didn't know it was a Devil Town.

Speaker 2 It was made a Devil's Town against their will.

Speaker 2 The two of us, this Dorp's too small for the two of us.

Speaker 2 Okay, Gamble.

Speaker 2 You can have it then. I'm going back to heaven.

Speaker 2 Well, in Kruger's Dorp, a small boutique cult of Christians called Electus Perdeus murdered 11 people in the name of God. This is a high body count cult.

Speaker 2 It is. This story, I am so surprised that it did not get the play that place that things like Snowtown did, where Snowtown is a much more convoluted story with a smaller body count.

Speaker 2 Like, you know, that doesn't make it necessarily a better or worse

Speaker 2 thing, but it's just crazy with this. We're like, these idiots killed a lot of people.
Yeah, they really did. Well, their leader was a self-styled satanic ritual abuse survivor named Cecilia Stain.

Speaker 2 She definitely was self-styled because you can't pay for that hairstyle.

Speaker 2 She claimed she was a part of a satanic witch bloodline that went back 42 generations to Pharaoh Ramses II.

Speaker 2 She had, however, escaped and claimed to be battling the very same groups to which she had once belonged.

Speaker 2 By claiming that she had escaped her coven, she was able to convince a group of Christians who were caught up in South Africa's satanic panic that every outlandish claim she made, which rival even Mike Warnke's craziest lies was the gospel truth i actually think it goes steps even farther than mike warnke's craziest lies goes far beyond because mike warnke i mean mostly he was doing it for the lulls right he was doing for the content he was doing his money to sell books but this lady like talk about

Speaker 2 i like to fashion myself a performer right like a real actor or an actor's actor i believe all the world's a stage And, like, honestly, one of my favorite stages is my bedroom.

Speaker 2 But largely, that's a different, that's a performance I put on for the benefit of my family and my friends. And everyone loves it, and everyone loves it.
Natalie loves it, everybody loves it.

Speaker 2 But this woman never stopped performing. No, this woman never gave up the ghost once.
And that I even give her points above Alex Jones. Yeah.
And even you don't do your own special effects.

Speaker 2 No, no, no. I hire out.

Speaker 2 But while Mike Warnke told a bunch of stories about being a satanic high priest for money and attention, Cecilia's game was far more insidious.

Speaker 2 Cecilia was all about seeing what she could make people do. As such, her stories inspired 11 murders that were cleverly disguised as volleys against the scourge of Satanism in South Africa.

Speaker 2 Unbelievable.

Speaker 2 You fucking believable. You think the South Africans need Satan? I mean, yeah.

Speaker 2 Desperately. I know so many people walk around that need Satan.
I see him. If I see you

Speaker 2 with a button-down shirt on with the fucking button up to the collar, y'all need Satan. Yeah.
Or golf shirts. Oh, God, wicking.
I talked about wicking. I hate wicking.
Wicking's lying.

Speaker 2 Wicking is lying. God, our bodies sweat.

Speaker 2 Our bodies were made by Gaia to sweat. How dare you use your science-made fabric to wick away my well-earned juice?

Speaker 2 Well, Cecilia was able to convince one group of Christians that another group of Christians were actually a part of a satanic church and therefore needed to die. See, that makes her likable.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 some ways. I like, how do you say it?

Speaker 2 I'm not happy with the result, but I don't have problems with the tactics.

Speaker 2 But once the blade was wet, Cecilia was then able to convince her followers to kill pretty much anyone she wanted, all to serve the phony cause of her cult, Electus Perdeus, which means chosen by God.

Speaker 2 Would you not say that their motives and her motives especially are some of the more mysterious motives

Speaker 2 than any cult we've covered? Like, this is

Speaker 2 someone that arrived, much kind of like how, like, Anders, like Anders Brevik went against, it committed a one-man war against the world that didn't know war was coming.

Speaker 2 And then he claimed himself victor over a war that he started and then ended himself this lady kind of seems to have the same energy where she declared war on a group of people that had no idea that they were inviting this into their lives She just kind of rolled in as a true like true chaos agent We were calling her lady Charles Manson.

Speaker 2 Yes, for a reason. Yes See the Kruger's Dorp cult murders were originally considered by police to be two entirely different sets of murders.

Speaker 2 Before authorities knew about the existence of Electus Perdeus, they believed they had a set of murders called the Satanic killings and another set committed years later called the appointment murders.

Speaker 2 Two clusters of murders. No one had any idea that all of these murders were committed by the same people.
And when you glanced at the cases, there was no reason to link them.

Speaker 2 Even if you truly studied these cases, there was no reason to link all these murders together. They were all extremely different.

Speaker 2 Well, the satanic killings were a series of brutal murders that rivaled the Manson family. I'm talking like dozens upon dozens of stab wounds, blood on the ceiling, horrific shit.

Speaker 2 Yeah, vicious, vicious murders. Yeah, but the appointment killings involved business people who would show up to appointments only to be murdered and robbed.

Speaker 2 And then very neatly dispose of, quote-unquote, dispose of. They were cut up, put into bags, and then they were robbed.
It definitely felt like they were looking for money. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Now, were those all locals or were there people from out of town? All locals. All these people, these are all Krugersdorp locals.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And one thing about Krugersdorp is, as we'll get into it, it's a very small town and everybody knew everybody. So it was like

Speaker 2 about 120, 130,000 people.

Speaker 2 It's about the size of Abilene, Texas. Yeah, so but a lot of people knew each other.
So it was a very close-knit community for it to kind of jump in murders out of nowhere.

Speaker 2 This is a place that has maybe two murders a year. Yeah, and jump in murders twice, like two different sets of them.

Speaker 2 But once the people in the appointment murders were identified, their role in the satanic killings was quickly discovered.

Speaker 2 It was also ascertained that Cecilia Stain probably would have been arrested years before had it not been for the fact that she was married to a cop.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's why my mom got away with all her crimes.

Speaker 2 The South African police are very, are notoriously corrupt. Yeah, and we're going to see that.
Yeah, they sell their,

Speaker 2 they sell the lights on top of their car to criminals so they can pull people over and assault them or rob them.

Speaker 2 You know, they sell their uniforms to groups of people who like you wear them and like fucking just rob jewelry stores and shit like that that in the middle of the day. It's a very corrupt society.

Speaker 2 That's why they rely on private security and private police forces. But in a way, isn't it almost more honest? Because then things can be bought and paid for.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 And it's not all held together by nebulous ideas of duty and jurisprudence and being a good person. I mean, ironically, I think it is kind of a truly Satanist society.
Oh,

Speaker 2 in that way. But Satanism does not believe in hurting people that have not hurt you first.
That is true. You've been to South Africa, haven't you? I got the shirt.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's not just a shit you bought on Amazon. Yeah, no, I was the International Comedy Festival in Johannesburg, and I was there for 10 days.
It was fucking unbelievable. I went to Soweto twice.

Speaker 2 It was a life-changing experience. I got to go on Safari, and it's a beautiful place.
Actually, Joannesburg has a great comedy scene.

Speaker 2 I also got to say, it's really amazing that they let you leave the Safari. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Woo!

Speaker 2 You fucking piece of shit. I fucking nailed your ass.
What animal was I?

Speaker 2 The nude pig. Buffalo.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 I was going to say warthog. Yeah, something like that.
That was one thing I noticed, though. Warthog was my favorite animal on the entire safari because I noticed that they party with all the animals.

Speaker 2 Every time I saw a warthog, it was with another animal. This is anthropomorphication.
And I think they're partying. And that's the thing, man.
I didn't even know that. That was my instinct.

Speaker 2 I was just like, what animal? Warthog. Definitely Warthog.
Very got Pumba energy.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's on the text.

Speaker 2 But before we get into this fascinating and complex story, let's acknowledge our sources.

Speaker 2 First, we've got the Kruger's Dorp Cult Killings by Jana Marks, which, while dense, is still a hell of a retelling with a lot of detail.

Speaker 2 The other is Satanism and Family Murder in Late Apartheid South Africa by Nikki Falcock. Which is

Speaker 2 despite the title, it's pretty funny.

Speaker 2 That provided us with a lot of the information we have on South Africa's satanic panic. And speaking of which, this is not going to be an apartheid series.
No, no, no, no. We're not yet at that point.

Speaker 2 Let me tell you how it all happened, all right?

Speaker 2 I mean, apartheid certainly will appear at the edges of this story, particularly the satanic panic, and particularly because apartheid informs damn near everything in South Africa to this day.

Speaker 2 That's not what we're here for. And I'm sure there are a hundred other podcasts that can explore apartheid far better than we can.
Have you seen that? Uh, My Tongue's Apartheid?

Speaker 2 It's got, um, it's, it's great. Um, great, great podcasts with, uh, fucking with some guys,

Speaker 2 and Hock Tua Girl.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Today's cult leader, Cecilia Stain, was a trashy fuck-up who had a pathological need for attention and approval. As you said earlier, this is a true agent of chaos.

Speaker 2 As far as her appearance goes, I describe her as a surly, balding, truck stop gas station cashier with short, spiky hair, black hair. You want to pair to menthols?

Speaker 2 Oh, no, you fucking pussy.

Speaker 2 This is the thing. I'm going to have to work out her voice because it definitely

Speaker 2 Charles Manson. That is for certain.
And because South African. It's very difficult.
And there's so many different arrays of South African accent, too.

Speaker 2 Like all the, it kind of all sounds like they're from different sections of the world.

Speaker 2 And then also, like, all of the documentary footage, great documentary series, Devil's Dorp, they'll watch, but it really kind of puts it all together. Then you use like English phrases randomly.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
And there's different languages spoken all throughout South Africa. There's many, there's many different dialects of Zulu and all that shit.
It's very confusing. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Now, I think that if it hadn't been Satanism, Cecilia would have found something else as a framework to manipulate people into doing her bidding because that really was her game.

Speaker 2 In fact, like Charles Manson, Cecilia never participated in a single murder.

Speaker 2 And especially for somebody like her, the fact that she sort of got away with not doing any of the dirty work really kind of shows she actually was more of a

Speaker 2 higher caliber manipulator than Charles Manson. A producer.
She's a real producer.

Speaker 2 But just as Manson was able to plug into the darker zeitgeist of the late 60s to gain control over his followers, Cecilia was able to amplify South Africa's satanic panic to such an extent that her followers were willing to commit murder to fight the scourge of Satanism solely based off Cecilia's word.

Speaker 2 See, while America's satanic panic died down in the 90s and returned only recently with QAnon. Oh, it's because we love reboots.

Speaker 2 South Africa's satanic panic never really settled the way ours did. There, it actually established itself within their government in formal roles.
It was extremely serious. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Now, South Africa's satanic panic coincided with the later years of apartheid, which ended in 1994.

Speaker 2 In short, apartheid was an extreme form of segregation and discrimination so egregious that it's now considered a crime against humanity. But when you look at it.
So we're against it.

Speaker 2 I just want to make sure that we got that on the right.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we're all against it. We're with all the musicians.
I don't like it.

Speaker 2 I don't like it.

Speaker 2 And then apartheid my shoes the wrong way was also a really inappropriate comedic podcast about apartheid that I really, again, I didn't even know how there's humor in the situation at all.

Speaker 2 But when you look at apartheid from the satanic panic angle, the end of apartheid was a time of extreme anxiety for the white Afrikaner population of South Africa.

Speaker 2 And just as we've seen here with QAnon and MAGA, some white people tend to lean into some really crazy shit when they get nervous about their station in society.

Speaker 2 It's almost like it's like some kind of social madness. It is.
There's like a thing about like, because even this, because apartheid,

Speaker 2 wasn't it called like not a majority, it was like a, it was a minority. It was minority rule.
It was minority rule.

Speaker 2 So the idea is that they are all like kind of clinging to some idea that we are supposed to be in charge of everyone here. Well, basically, it's they have a certain worldview.

Speaker 2 And when that worldview is shaken to such an extent that their entire, the way they look at the world has to change, everything about reality for them gets shaken and becomes unmoored.

Speaker 2 Everything becomes unmoored. And if somebody has a crazy fucking explanation as to why things are suddenly unmoored, then people latch on to it.

Speaker 2 We saw it in America when we elected a black president and people lost their fucking minds because having a black man in charge of them or having a black man in the top spot was so offensive.

Speaker 2 So offense intense.

Speaker 2 It was so crazy. Yeah.
Like not just even offensive. It was just.
He was living an upside-down town.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Like literally, he was the most Republican

Speaker 2 president we've had.

Speaker 2 And they were so angry. Yeah, but that's why I voted for bin Laden.

Speaker 2 Hey, hey, I keep writing it in. I stole my neighbor's balance.
I wrote it in. I stole my other neighbor's ballots.
I wrote him in. I'm looking for him to get his third shot.

Speaker 2 But here's the thing that's interesting about the South African satanic panic.

Speaker 2 While you think they'd focus on the African population, you know, the people that were pushing the change that was turning the world upside down.

Speaker 2 All of the so-called Satanists that were kidnapping and eating South African babies, these were coming from the white Afrikaner community.

Speaker 2 This was actually another form of racism and another consequence of apartheid. See, black Africans in South Africa did indeed perform what you'd call magic, for lack of a better word.

Speaker 2 For lack of a better word, yeah. And it was their culture.
Yes, like in New Orleans or Haiti. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But to be worried about that magic would mean that white Afrikaners would have to acknowledge black Africa, which was something they couldn't do because apartheid would not let them acknowledge the segregated population.

Speaker 2 So they had to be afraid about something, but since they couldn't be afraid of the black population because they believe themselves to be above the black population, like their magic couldn't fuck with our white power.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. Their magic can't fuck with our white power, but I'm still afraid, so I've got to find somebody to be afraid of, but I've got to be afraid of somebody on my level.

Speaker 2 I need some white, black magic.

Speaker 2 Instead, the South African satanic panic was was rooted in the same stupid bullshit as ours. Ghostbusters, Ninja Turtles, Iron Maiden, Dungeons and Dragons, rebellions, drugs, sex, horoscopes.

Speaker 2 In other words, it's all shit that just comes from America or England. It's all how

Speaker 2 all of the, like, I guess that's one of the worst parts about this story and about satanic panics across the world is that it's buried in ignorance.

Speaker 2 It's like comes out of this soil of not knowing what in the living fuck that you're talking about. Yes.

Speaker 2 And it's also wildly specific in ways that should immediately show you that what they're talking about is horseshit.

Speaker 2 There was a guy named Tian Gildenhuys that was a ran a thing called spiritual house cleaning, which took over South Africa for a period of time. And it was this like concept.
It was like this.

Speaker 2 It was stuff like showing the evil symbolism inside of Spider-Man's web on his chest and how the lightning bolt is the devil signal, which is why Harry Potter is the literal like embodiment of the devil, sort of like charming your child into getting them involved in their story.

Speaker 2 Don't give him that kind of credit. Exactly!

Speaker 2 This is what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 2 One of the most prominent Satan hunters, for that was what they were called, was a Reverend named David Nell.

Speaker 2 He insisted that there were 200,000 South Africans who were members of a satanic group called the Brotherhood of the Ram, which made Satanists, in his view, a full 10% of South Africa's white population.

Speaker 2 Technically, you should be courting their vote.

Speaker 2 Why are we attacking a voting bloc

Speaker 2 they need to be engaged with?

Speaker 2 But even with those numbers, South Africa's satanic panic started out small.

Speaker 2 In 1985, a group of female students at a conservative university refused to sell a student magazine on the basis that it promoted Satanism.

Speaker 2 Apparently, the magazine had two very scary pictures: one of a goat peeking over a fence with human hands,

Speaker 2 and another featuring a human-kitty cat hybrid face. These pictures, the girls said, were satanic and therefore should not be associated with the university.
And a massive controversy occurred.

Speaker 2 Meanwhile, there's just like a poor, stupid fucking artist that's like, My problem is I can't draw hooves.

Speaker 2 I wish I could, I would have made the whole goat. I wish, Please tell me how to make hooves and why you don't make them look like little irons.

Speaker 2 It's not a goat with human hands. It's a human with a goat head.
I get more of a human. I'm just a bit dumb.
I'm a bit topsy-turvy.

Speaker 2 That same year, however, shit ramped up when a 16-year-old girl was arrested for killing her mother and brother before shooting at her father. She just kind of went crazy.

Speaker 2 An unnamed source told the press that a satanic cult was responsible. And that, of course, created a a lot of speculation.

Speaker 2 What's great about a satanic cult is that number one to blame is that number one, it doesn't exist, right?

Speaker 2 So then the cops can sort of make up the evidence that exists based upon the most scant little pieces, right? Like they could say, like, oh, they had a black shirt.

Speaker 2 Oh, they had an upside-down cross earring that they wore.

Speaker 2 But what's great about them is that it gives them an explanation of why these things happen. Yeah.
That they don't have to think and they don't have to think. They don't have to investigate.

Speaker 2 It's a really good, easy escape for police and for people to say, oh, it's satanic activity, because then they get a bunch of money, as you can see, they think a bunch of money shows up and they also get total impunity and they get to be warriors for Christ, which makes it a better story for them to try to get a blowjob from a man at a bar.

Speaker 2 Well, after that, after that killing, the Department of Education launched an investigation into Satanist movements in schools.

Speaker 2 And this is what I'm talking about when I say South Africa's panic was more intense than ours.

Speaker 2 Yes, many people here did go to jail, and many did have their lives ruined over bogus claims of satanic ritual abuse.

Speaker 2 But there was no overarching investigation in which cabinet officials were seriously believing that our country was teetering on the edge of full satanic influence.

Speaker 2 But make no mistake, this shit could still happen here. Oh, it's in the mail.
It's in the mail.

Speaker 2 Show up in November. Yeah.
We're counting on all of you to show up in November because this shit could absolutely happen here.

Speaker 2 I actually think real change will happen in this country once they ban porn.

Speaker 2 I mean it.

Speaker 2 I feel like it's the only, it's like once Miami's gone, once Miami's in the water, and once, I mean, sorry, but once Miami's finally taken back by fucking Neptune and once fucking porn is banned, then people might realize that once we can finally replace the Miami Dolphins with actual dolphins, the world will be a better place.

Speaker 2 So, now you want, do you really want the NFL's training regimen to be put upon the dolphins?

Speaker 2 And then you want the dolphins to get CTE because you know what's going to happen is that we're going to have the very first dolphin family annihilation where the father dolphin's going to come back, strangle the pawn, and then kill himself with the training rig that they have in his underwater training area.

Speaker 2 It's already happened.

Speaker 2 Now, the investigation came after clergymen called on the government to appoint an inquiry into a supposed epidemic of Satanism on the playgrounds of South Africa.

Speaker 2 Around that same time, South Africa launched what's said to be the world's only ritual murder task force, the Occult-Related Crimes Unit.

Speaker 2 Now, we've had individuals in American law enforcement that have called themselves experts on the occult, but we've never had an official unit whose only job was to battle Satan's minions on Earth.

Speaker 2 South Africa did. Those are like priest cops.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, they were cops imbued with the duty of priests to fight on behalf of the state against the spiritual deviance, which is a big main stripe of the apartheid movement, which is this idea that we are going to stomp out any form of anti-Christian thought, any form of would be a spectrum of atheism.

Speaker 2 Apartheid was also very

Speaker 2 against Marxism. They were very afraid of Marxism, you know.
Communism. Yeah, communism and all that shit.
Which they were terrified of. And a tenant of communism is atheism, right?

Speaker 2 The idea that we're having an atheist government. And so they would fight that tooth and nail.

Speaker 2 And again, these things are the thing about when Satan comes into play, which I know all too well, is that things get a little sexy, things get a little bit spicier.

Speaker 2 The heroes become a little bit braver. The villains become a little bit more nefarious.

Speaker 2 So what these guys do is that like all of this just boosts their power, which also boosts their ability to not be questioned in the use of their power? And who do the occult cops report to?

Speaker 2 The government or the

Speaker 2 government?

Speaker 2 No,

Speaker 2 they're part of like, it would be like if the FBI had an occult crimes division. But that was before we've had local police had occult crimes.
There were occult crimes divisions.

Speaker 2 It's like individual guys. Yes, but not from the Pentagon.
Yeah. Well, the most high-profile cult cop was a man named Cobus Yunker, also known as Dunker Yunker.

Speaker 2 Which means, in Afrikaans, means a dark Yonker.

Speaker 2 Donker is dark, but from here on out, he will be known as Donker Yonker. Oh, Donker Yonker.

Speaker 2 Man, I talk up all these.

Speaker 2 I've heard a lot of women don't necessarily need a Donker Yunker.

Speaker 2 Darth Yonker.

Speaker 2 In the media, cops like Donker Yonker were portrayed as Rambo-esque saviors who policed South Africa's national borders both physically

Speaker 2 Now, by 1990, Dunker Yunker had enough cred to push concerns that on April 30th, the satanic high holiday of Walpurgisnacht.

Speaker 2 Walpurgisnacht was going to kick off in the most horrific way possible with a massive amount of sacrifices all over the country. And that's right.
Satanists do sacrifice.

Speaker 2 We sacrifice every day for the freedom of speech in the United States of America.

Speaker 2 We sacrifice, we sacrifice our mouths in trying various unnamed Asian markets slash restaurants that look kind of sketch. But you know, using the

Speaker 2 empirical vision of the lamplight of knowledge that I can see that there's no white people in the restaurant. That means it's good.

Speaker 2 Specifically, Donker Yonker said that babies were the most popular targets for sacrifice. So anyone with a baby or a child needed to be very afraid.
Of course, you're just sitting there.

Speaker 2 Donker Yonker also said that he was following a number of leads indicating the location of a satanic cult. Leads that included, but were not limited to, a cat that had been sodomized.

Speaker 2 Fuck these people, dude. You think that we're going to fuck that kind of pussy? No, man.

Speaker 2 We fucked awesome, good, the human guy. All right, that's the kind of one that's going to fight back with all four of its little limbs.
Or the butts. Yeah.
Wow.

Speaker 2 Yeah, if it was a lion, you know, I would have been more impressed. Leoton Levay would have never.
No, lions was his pet. That was the most powerful animal in the satanist.

Speaker 2 According to him, it was that and the bull and the most powerful animals in the satanic lexicon. Not the goat? No.
I thought the goat was the shit. That's goat is of Baphomet,

Speaker 2 but technically that whole thing is a symbol of balance, not necessarily a symbol of power.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 if you want to see something really fun, look up

Speaker 2 the interview that Anton LeVay did with his lawyer when his lion was taken away. It's very sad.

Speaker 2 I will say his abuse of the lion is probably the worst thing that he did. Yes.
Now, according to Donker Yonker sources. How many more times are you going to say Donker Yonkers? He rehabs.

Speaker 2 As many as I can.

Speaker 2 I'm just going to know, like, what on the hell is this going to be?

Speaker 2 Actually, I think that might be the last Donker Yonker. Woo! There might be one more.
I actually really like peanut butter Donker Yonkers.

Speaker 2 But according to his sources, young people were being lured into Satanism at an alarming rate, but only after they were drugged, forced into demeaning sexual performances, and photographed, photographed, all to keep them in the covet.

Speaker 2 Blackmail. Wait a second.
Was that my fucking Saturday Live audition?

Speaker 2 Now, Volpurgesnacht came and went without incident that year, as it always does.

Speaker 2 But less than a month later, the head of Cape Town's Child Protection Unit, Captain Leonard Solmes, gave a press conference where he revealed his quote-unquote findings from his own investigation into Satanism.

Speaker 2 He said that he had it on good authority that 11 babies who had been specifically bred for sacrifice to the devil have been ritualistically murdered by having their throats slit and their hearts eaten.

Speaker 2 He should have picked 13. That's a more demonic number.

Speaker 2 This was all seen over by a group of Satanists who were also high-ranking members of the government in South Africa's capital, Cape Town, which is a storyline that Americans are quite familiar with by way of QAnon conspiracies.

Speaker 2 The elites are killing and eating babies.

Speaker 2 What I do find it interesting is that why would the government that has sponsored an entire like part of the reason why we have the ever lingering idea that there are a giant pedophile cabal inside of our U.S.

Speaker 2 government run by Satanists is the fact that we didn't ever have a national like federal investigation into it. That's one of the things they hold.

Speaker 2 They're like, you see, it's because they're protecting each other.

Speaker 2 How do you manage to convince yourself that the government's involved in the satanic cabal when they have purposely set up the federal investigative unit to look into satanic crimes?

Speaker 2 Ah, no, but this is the local Cape Town government, and he's outside of that. He's saying that.
Oh, yeah, yeah, no. Cuptiles, yeah, yeah.
Sheriff is the devil. Sheriff is the devil.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the guy, the head of the HOA, there is a devil.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's the mayor of Cape Town. He's the one that's evil.

Speaker 2 But besides the baby killing, these high-ranking officials also allegedly engaged in bestiality, animal cruelty, mass orgies, drug taking, secrecy, and threats of death for disloyalty.

Speaker 2 And while there was no evidence for any of this, not even an empty fucking bottle of lube, Captain Solmes assured everyone present at this press conference that everything was true because he'd been told it was true by Satanists.

Speaker 2 And I'll also

Speaker 2 on the inside. It doesn't matter.
But also, I don't understand. Where it's like, I mean, again, we're trying to apply logic.
Yeah. But the Satanists are the arbitrators of all lies.
Right.

Speaker 2 They're the guys that are the masters of deceit. Unless they are telling you something that you want to hear.

Speaker 2 That's the thing that I have noticed about these fucking people is that Satanists are always liars unless they're telling you the story you want to hear. And then they're telling the absolute truth.

Speaker 2 And they're telling the truth.

Speaker 2 But it's also kind of funny because they are also like, because you could see much how like prisoners or like serial killers lie while they're in jail in order to make themselves appear more powerful so they can either get more respect or be safer inside of prison that these satanists um they it seems like they would be lying to make themselves to appear more powerful so what was he just hanging out with satanists and then relying because then now he's suspect

Speaker 2 Because you're just hanging out with your dad. You were hanging with Satanists allowed to hang out.
Well, it's always Satanists who are coming over to our side.

Speaker 2 They're coming over to our side and they're telling us the truth. And

Speaker 2 they want to get these horrible crimes off their chest. And, oh, my God.
Yeah, they were here. We did sacrifice everything, but I guess they cleaned it all up.
It's all gone now.

Speaker 2 But we were here last night sacrificing babies. Oh, that is the power of Satan.

Speaker 2 Satanists are so powerful that they can clean up the fucking ritual murder of 11 babies in one night.

Speaker 2 One mom, nothing for it. No, there's never one mom looking for it.
And you can thank me. I'm Jackson, and I'm the Satanist janitor.

Speaker 2 Thank me, because I always clean it up nice and good. I get my big stanky mop and I get my evil bucket.

Speaker 2 And then I'm always picking up little baby parts, licking it little blood, looking at little baby penises. And I go, oh, I wish I could dine on that, but I know that that's what the devil.

Speaker 2 I do it real fast. You're getting close to retirement.

Speaker 2 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I am bound to this by my sins of my previous life.

Speaker 2 Well, those same Satanists only made things worse by giving supposed interviews to bolster their claims because these people are also attention seekers.

Speaker 2 The same month as the baby eating press conference, a man dubbed Peter the Satanist by the press gave an interview in which he said he ate a human heart.

Speaker 2 And I'll tell you right now, it wasn't that good.

Speaker 2 Barely had any salt. I mean, kind of underwhelmed in many ways.
Just kind of whelmed.

Speaker 2 Weeks later, in that same magazine, Peter the Satanist claimed that he'd found Jesus through the preaching of Pastor Neville Goldman, who just happened to be this magazine's favorite anti-Satanist crusader.

Speaker 2 The former Satanist also said that he returned to Christianity after realizing his devil worshiping was affecting his son.

Speaker 2 Yes, one day, yes, one day I came home and I found my son sitting in his bedroom with a girl with visible nipple rings wearing a leather harness.

Speaker 2 And they were, I can't believe it, he was practicing bass.

Speaker 2 for his death metal band. And he said he was going that night out to hang out with his friends at the Dennis and then take this beautiful woman to his concert.
And

Speaker 2 I just couldn't stand to see

Speaker 2 what had become of him.

Speaker 2 Now, when Vault Purgis Knocked rolled around the next year, the media created an even larger panic by making sure to note that two high-profile South African child abduction cases had occurred just before dates that were important to Satanists, so-called high holidays like Samhain and Halloween.

Speaker 2 As a result of this panic, some schools were completely emptied by April 24th because parents were so afraid Satanists were going to abduct their children.

Speaker 2 And police departments were inundated with rumors of abductions and reports of Satanists hanging out at the mall. No!

Speaker 2 Not Spencer's!

Speaker 2 The original home of the dark arts.

Speaker 2 Spencer's.

Speaker 2 Actually, if you were to ask me

Speaker 2 in the 1990s, like,

Speaker 2 where are the Satanists?

Speaker 2 They're hanging out at the mall. Very much so.
They're at the Orange Lazarus.

Speaker 2 They are for certain all hanging out because you can see they get their big shoes on, big pants on. They're just griping.

Speaker 2 They're playing with the like, you know, like sometimes some malls have the things you can drive around. Oh, the little carts.
The little carts. Something on those.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 They're fucking, they're getting Jinkos. Yeah, outside the movie theater.
They're hanging out outside the yogurt shop. We know where they like to be.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 We used to always hang out near the fountain.

Speaker 2 The water fountain is always a good place to hang out at the mall. And let it run red with blood.

Speaker 2 You never met the 29-year-old Satanist manager of a hot topic with like a liquid ring, just vaping outside, just going, whatever. And the thing is, he's dangerous, but not in the way you might think.

Speaker 2 No, no, no. He definitely shouldn't be someone you.

Speaker 2 Let your daughter hang around. Oh, yeah, he's going to come inside your daughter.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're looking at a son-in-law.

Speaker 2 Now, there was a rash of schoolgirl disappearances, but they had nothing to do with Satan.

Speaker 2 Instead, the schoolgirls have been kidnapped and killed by a pedophile named Gert Van Ruyen, who murdered at least six girls with a female accomplice before dying in a murder-suicide.

Speaker 2 Now, that's, of course, fucking terrible. And there is some evidence to suggest that Gert Van Rujen may have been involved in a pedophile ring, and pedophile rings absolutely exist as well.

Speaker 2 Honestly, it was kind of more of like a circle.

Speaker 2 We were just hanging out in a way. It was more of a give you a look at the positions we were all in.
It was kind of more of a trapezoid.

Speaker 2 But there was no evidence that Gert Van Ruhlen was doing what he did for any motivation other than his own twisted sexual desires.

Speaker 2 As a matter of fact, I could consider myself more of a Taylor Swift fan than anything else. That is how I identify.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't know how.

Speaker 2 I don't know how many times we have to fucking say this, but when you find out the music tastes of serial killers or murderers, it's always the blandest shit on the face of the fucking planet.

Speaker 2 And like prog rock and weird like kind of the only one.

Speaker 2 Dennis Nilson actually did have pretty good taste. He loved Laurie Anderson, which I'm a massive Laurie Anderson.
I'm a massive Laurie Anderson fan. She's insane, man.

Speaker 2 You saw her fucking exhibit at the Hirshorn Museum in D.C. Fucking rock and roll.

Speaker 2 Dennis Nilson's serial killer favorite song, favorite singer. Yeah, his favorite song was Oh Superman.
That makes sense.

Speaker 2 It's like I always said the example I always give is that guy who

Speaker 2 murdered the little boy in that murdered the little boy in Brooklyn. Remember way back when we were living there? Yeah.
Yeah, his favorite band was Hootie and the Blowfish. Oh,

Speaker 2 God. It's always like that.
Well, you know, I like Hootie. You know, he's friends with Dan Marino.
Okay.

Speaker 2 He was just arrested for selling ecstasy. Dan Marino? No, Hootie.
Oh, really? Yeah. God, he gets cooler every day.

Speaker 2 Now, after it became apparent that Donker Yonker and his cult

Speaker 2 and his cult cop compatriots, actually, there's quite a few Donker Yonkers left.

Speaker 2 Once it became apparent that he and his cult cop compatriots were coming up with a bunch of goose eggs, the South African police tried issuing gag orders, telling them that they were to make no further statements to the media regarding Satanism.

Speaker 2 Soon after, though, in November of 1991, Donker Yonker uncovered what he believed was proof positive that Satanism was alive and well.

Speaker 2 He'd arrested an alleged satanic high priest and his younger brother in what Donker Yonker called the biggest Satanism hall that the city of Port Elizabeth had ever seen.

Speaker 2 Such a funny idea. Just the image of Donker Yonker on a boat with a priest and his child on a giant fishing line that he's sport fishing, just staple gun to tail to him.
You're like, we got him.

Speaker 2 The so-called high priest and his brother, however, were pretty much just a couple of shithead kids. In essence, they were stealing gravestones and smoking weed.
Whoa, man, that's fucking...

Speaker 2 It's not good.

Speaker 2 You're not supposed to steal gravestones.

Speaker 2 You're supposed to

Speaker 2 switch them.

Speaker 2 That's true fun.

Speaker 2 Gravestone, it's sacred. You're not supposed to fuck with gravestones or graveyards or anything like that.

Speaker 2 But the arrest was nevertheless seen as a victory for Dunker Yonker, who was soon after tapped to lead the aforementioned occult crimes unit. It's like going fishing and you just like catch a shirt.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? Where you're like, yeah, yeah, we got something. One of their most bizarre cases occurred in the small town of Riot Fontein.

Speaker 2 There, five schoolgirls claimed to have been victims of what they called the thing,

Speaker 2 aka the Riot Fontein slasher.

Speaker 2 These girls, in what sounds quite similar to cases like the devils of Lujon, they claimed that an invisible supernatural force had torn at their clothes, scratched their legs, pulled their hair, and sexually abused them.

Speaker 2 But since this this whole thing seemed to be related to the occult, Dunker Yonker was put on the case. Well, there, girls, where they put the tip inside, Donker Yonker will be there.

Speaker 2 Hey, Jonker, Donker Yonker, Donker Yonker.

Speaker 2 Please be incredibly serious while I speak.

Speaker 2 I am a serious man. I am a serious job.
I'm a serious man.

Speaker 2 Yes, I will take my favorite drink. Nod juice mixed with milk.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 Nice Andrew and Bever.

Speaker 2 Now, after interviewing the girls without assistance from psychiatrists, Donker Yonker reported to the press that this was a matter for Jesus Christ. Whoa!

Speaker 2 And that there was nothing else the police could do.

Speaker 2 My hands are tied. Yeah.

Speaker 2 This Donker is Yonker. I'm done.
I don't want to deal with this no more. We're going to toss this up to the Arab upstairs.

Speaker 2 He then passed on the matter to local priests who exercised the school where all this was happening. Get out, devil.

Speaker 2 Take couple up.

Speaker 2 Get out, devil. The school's principal then joined in, demanding prayer from his students, demanding it.

Speaker 2 Then the minister of health services, a government official, traveled to the school and led the kids in prayer, saying that, yes, Satan had come to riot Fonteyn.

Speaker 2 When asked if the girls might be lying, the principal said no, because the girls were all well-adjusted and quite attractive. Yes.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Don't believe believe, believe me, I noticed because I'm Donker Yonker.

Speaker 2 The Yonker that donkers his way across South Africa. No pretty girl has ever told a lie.
I know that for a bat. And how I can tell is if my balls move.
I'm a human lie detector.

Speaker 2 I look down to my yonkers and I see if they move left or right. A left means they're being deceitful.
To the right means I'm getting aroused. My yonkers are quite bunkers.

Speaker 2 Well, the kicker here was that Riot Fonteyn was right next to the border of Namibia, which was considered a part of South Africa until Namibia claimed independence in 1990.

Speaker 2 Suddenly, Riot Fonteyn was right next to Black Africa instead of being snuggled in white South Africa. And white people, therefore, got very weird.

Speaker 2 But while Donker Yonker was involved in some of the goofier cases, that doesn't mean that he wasn't called when the major crimes seemed to have an occult edge.

Speaker 2 In 1992, Donker Yonker, man, there were so many more Donker Yonkers. There's a lot of Donker Yonkers, but I like each one.
And every time I crack a little smile,

Speaker 2 even though he's a shithead, I just kind of smile a little bit. Well, in 1992, he was assigned to the brutal murder of Don Orso.

Speaker 2 Now, police were quick to draw connections to Satanism in this case, and when the killers were revealed to be Don's daughter Dominique and her boyfriend Lawrence, their testimony only confirmed the satanic suspicions of the authorities.

Speaker 2 Dominique and Lawrence's defense was that they had been possessed by demons during the time of the killing, which, incredibly enough, actually garnered them sympathy with the public because they seemed to be victims of the devil as well.

Speaker 2 But now we're seeing a function of satanic panic where it gives those of you this is now going to come up where it gives people agency to act however they want in the name of either side.

Speaker 2 And then the one side gets the hailmaker. There is no either.
There is no either side.

Speaker 2 There's no satanic side. There is no

Speaker 2 point.

Speaker 2 Almost never.

Speaker 2 What happens is that truly people like Cecilia Stain are the things that make that stuff quote unquote real because they're using the smokescreen of the panic to allow themselves to get agency for their beliefs.

Speaker 2 Like this, all of this shit is like being able to just say and get sympathy saying the devil made me do it means that now a lot of people got more excuses to do shit.

Speaker 2 But as the case progressed, it became obvious that Lawrence was a fuck-up misfit who had been manipulated into committing a murder by his charming girlfriend who wanted her mother dead.

Speaker 2 As the judge put it, the crime was too goal-oriented to be involuntary.

Speaker 2 But lest he think this judge was a reasonable person, he made sure to note that the court did accept that people could be possessed by demons. That just wasn't what had happened this time.

Speaker 2 I'm going to let you know I was possessed by demons all last week. And then eventually I went to the bathroom and I realized I'm lactose intolerant.

Speaker 2 Now, as the 90s progressed, Satanism stories fell out of favor in the mainstream South African press until they disappeared altogether. It's much like the satanic panic did here in America.

Speaker 2 But as is evidenced by the Krugersdorp cult killings, South Africa's satanic panic left a permanent mark on the Christian Afrikaner community.

Speaker 2 If it hadn't, then there would have been no way that Cecilia Stain would have convinced a group of devout Christians to commit 11 absolutely horrific murders.

Speaker 2 Now, before we get into the story of Cecilia Stain, let's first talk about the woman who effectively empowered Cecilia to do what she did, a person whose biggest crime was being stupefyingly gullible.

Speaker 2 This woman's name was Rhea Grunwald. Yeah, you say stupefyingly gullible, but I still feel it's all this.

Speaker 2 How do you say sometimes you get what you ask for when you want to be some form of superhero? Yeah. And you think you're fueled by Christ himself and you have this, it's hubris.
Yeah, very much so.

Speaker 2 Now, at worst, you could see Rhea Grunwald as a busybody, maybe even a full-on pain in the ass.

Speaker 2 See, Rhea was a believer in the eternal battle of God versus Satan, a battle that was being played out on earth every single day by human agents on both sides.

Speaker 2 Rhea, of course, considered herself to be an agent of God. So, by 2006, Ria was a financial advisor living in a South African town called Florida,

Speaker 2 just a few miles from Johannesburg. She was divorced with two kids.
She was 52 years old, and she was, of course, a devout Christian. I'm a divorcee, got two kids, and I got crashes, my co-pilot.

Speaker 2 I'm unstoppable. You should see this snapper.
I got three clips.

Speaker 2 I live in Florida, Africa, the safest place you will ever be. Oh man, I rode a crocodile to the post office and then I punched the mailman in the face and he said thank you.

Speaker 2 Praise Jesus.

Speaker 2 Maria's entire life was shook up, however, when she was invited to a Christian training course about how to identify the occult and how to help so-called survivors of Satanism.

Speaker 2 These so-called Satanists were people who had supposedly managed to break free from the shackles of the occult by converting to Christianity.

Speaker 2 Let me just have you know right now, honestly, they never do that. They never go from the occult to Christianity.
They go from the occult to owning a gym-based store.

Speaker 2 They go from the occult to becoming a podcast producer. They don't go to Christ.
Yeah, or they go from the occult to just, I don't know, do nothing. Nothing.

Speaker 2 It's like, it's not, the occult isn't evil. There's nothing.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 It's all things, all things. Now, for whatever reason, Rhea felt like this training course was her true calling.
So she devoted all her time and energy to saving people from Satan and the occult.

Speaker 2 I am burdened with this responsibility.

Speaker 2 Such was her dedication that she became almost like a sidekick to the local police, who would work with Rhea when they were hunting Satanists.

Speaker 2 Rhea even started bothering and enabling the delusions of youngsters, like one high schooler named Monique, who came to believe that Satanists were planning to kidnap and sacrifice her on Halloween.

Speaker 2 As we mentioned earlier, so-called high nights like Halloween, Saoen, or Beltane, these were when Satanists supposedly performed their most powerful rituals and made their most high-value sacrifices to Satan.

Speaker 2 So Rhea encouraged Monique's delusions. Does he understand that on our holidays we relax? Yeah.
This is not the time. We don't party on Vault.
We don't do rituals on Vault Pergasnoch. That's our work.

Speaker 2 We save that for Monday to Thursday. And Satan's busy.
He doesn't need more sacrifice. No, he's got a lot going on.
The election's coming up. He's got a lot of stuff on Satan's plate.

Speaker 2 Rhea discovered that Monique's mother knew nothing of the dangers of Satan and the occult. So Rhea started educating her as well, instructing her on how to fend off spiritual attacks with prayer.

Speaker 2 Now, of course, nothing happened to Monique. But because nothing happened, Rhea could say that nothing happened because of her.

Speaker 2 Now, Ria Grunwald became enamored with the idea that she was battling the devil's minions here on earth.

Speaker 2 So she formed an organization and chose a name that does not sound as good as she probably thought it did. She called it Overcomers Through Christ.

Speaker 2 There is a shirt she wears that says, I am an overcomer.

Speaker 2 And I really want it.

Speaker 2 Can I possibly get anyone? Side stories, L-P-O-T-L, and gmail.com. I will pay good money for somebody to, I will put up the actual picture of the shirt.
I want one, but spelled the right way. Yeah.

Speaker 2 because overcomer for Christ.

Speaker 2 It's because I am an overcomer. And I think that because you know what's nice about overcoming is that then you're not horny enough to be tempted.
Yeah. So if you overcome, you ever do that?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, where it turns to just like water. But you're not.

Speaker 2 You would be known like Julie's out of town or whatever. You've never just gone to fucking town yourself and masturbated.

Speaker 2 When I was younger, there was a summer in Tallahassee when everyone was out of town and it was just me for like three weeks. I was empty.

Speaker 2 I am not going to lie, in Australia, in the hotel room, I reached the end of my balls.

Speaker 2 And it was right there, honestly, interestingly enough, that I felt the power of Christ.

Speaker 2 That's why when we shook hands, they stuck together. Well, yeah, you know,

Speaker 2 hey, you know, I just want you to know where I've been. And it's not overcomers for Christ.
It's worse than that. It's overcomers through Christ.
Oh, that's so much cum that it blasted out of his own.

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Speaker 1 Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena, and I'm Ash, and we are the hosts of Morbid Podcast. Each week we dive into the dark and fascinating world of true crime, spooky history, and the unexplained.

Speaker 1 From infamous killers and unsolved mysteries to haunted places and strange legends, we cover it all with research, empathy, humor, and a a few creative expletives.

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Find us wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Speaker 2 Well, Overcomers Through Christ basically functioned as a small church with meetings, directors, and official members.

Speaker 2 Rhea even had a graphic designer named Candace Riavis design business cards and a logo for Overcomers.

Speaker 2 But that's all to say that Rhea wanted overcomers to be as professional and official as something like this can be.

Speaker 2 Which, again, once you overcome, then you can be, then you can actually focus on your work.

Speaker 2 Now, if you're fighting Satan's minions on Earth, then you're not going to keep that to yourself. So, Rhea and the other Overcomers.

Speaker 2 Banana.

Speaker 2 I'm a favorite.

Speaker 2 I love the minions. You do, man.
You do love the minions. You're slowly becoming one.
I want to dress up as a minion, and I want to take a gun to the store.

Speaker 2 Maria and the other.

Speaker 2 You're like Rick Moranis playing a minion.

Speaker 2 Maria and the other overcomers went to every school and church in the area to warn teachers and students about the dangers of Satan during week-long seminars called enrichment weeks.

Speaker 2 I think a lot of people in America experienced something like this. I'm pretty certain that people have gotten because I know that we had, what was that?

Speaker 2 We've talked about this before, the Christian dudes, the big powerlifter guys, powerlifting for Christ. They rip open.
People had that. Do you have church people visit your school?

Speaker 2 We had, well, there was the church yo-yo people.

Speaker 2 The people.

Speaker 2 Yo-yo. Yeah.
No, no. No,

Speaker 2 they did yo-yo tricks and then they talk about Jesus. Oh, did they sell yo-yos? Yeah, and they sell you yo-yos at the same time.
Christian yo-yos, yo-yos and cross-bloods-yos.

Speaker 2 What was it about our

Speaker 2 lives as kids? I love yo-yos. But we were given yo-yos were adored yo-yos.
They were jammed down our fucking throat. That's because our dads liked them.
Yeah. Is that what it is?

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's exactly what it is.
And then video games kill the yo-yo. Yep.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Now, we also had this other.
Pussy killed yo-yo for me. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was having sex. It made you better at fingering.

Speaker 2 Yeah, baby, I'm going to walk your dog.

Speaker 2 But Ria worked with the local police social crime prevention unit to scare children and teenagers about the influences of promiscuity, drug abuse, and most of all, Satanism.

Speaker 2 Ria would also have a band play, and lecturers would give speeches, all while she or some other overcomer led the children in prayer throughout the whole week.

Speaker 2 These enrichment weeks, and that's the crazy thing about it, is that it's a week. You know, when the Christ for Yo-Yos for Christ guys came through, like that was

Speaker 2 a couple hours at most. Yeah, a period.
These were like festivals that would be held at these schools. Yeah, because those yo-yo guys, a lot of them had to go check back in with their parole officers.

Speaker 2 It's so hard to be a yo-yo guy. Yeah.
They also weren't free. Rhea charged around $345 per enrichment week.
Which Christ ain't free, man. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And that doesn't sound like a lot, but she did suggest that schools and churches all have one enrichment. per month.
You had to keep enriching. Otherwise, it wouldn't work.
It'd wear off.

Speaker 2 It kind of sounds like a MLM or something. It sounds like

Speaker 2 a scam. Yeah, but if you learn how to make an enrichment week, then you can start doing enrichment weeks.
And then you can also pay me for the privilege of giving you the enrichment

Speaker 2 materials

Speaker 2 and training. And then you can be in my downline.
Would you like to buy some Tupperware? Well, do you know that the OTC, like essentially, like, that's what it was?

Speaker 2 Like, they did, like, that's why it was different than a church. It kind of felt like a weaponization of the church's ideas.

Speaker 2 This lady really thought that she was fighting Satan every day. Yeah.
And so they would think they viewed themselves as sort of like conscripted soldiers. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But it must be said that Rhea put all the money back into bothering people about something that didn't exist instead of spending it on herself.

Speaker 2 So at least she's not a hypocrite, which I know you think is the worst thing you person can be. You can, honestly, you can kill, you can, on a mass scale, you can steal.
You can do it.

Speaker 2 But as long as you say, I'm sorry,

Speaker 2 I'm cool with it. As long as I expected it from you.

Speaker 2 What do you call a blood that wears blue? What? A hypocrip.

Speaker 2 Interesting. You better be careful, Eddie.
You just got put on the fucking hit list. E-D-D-I-E-T-U-N-E-S dot.com.
And one, every piece of merch keeps him one inch away from the poorhouse. Amen.

Speaker 2 Go get your ham daddy hats, please.

Speaker 2 But while Rhea would not be the person who would take her highly paranoid Christian busybody overcomers and turn them into murderers, she did bring all of them together through her personal quest against Satan and his minions.

Speaker 2 See, in February of 2007, Rita Grunwald and Overcomers Through Christ held an enrichment week at a high school in the town of Rudeport.

Speaker 2 There, Rhea met, or the dorp of Rudeport.

Speaker 2 There, Rhea met a 40-year-old English teacher named Mirinda Stain, who's not related at all to Cecilia Stain. It's not a stain.
It's just a coincidence.

Speaker 2 But while most of the people who saw the Overcomers were at most impressed with their message, Miranda came out of her school's enrichment week saying that it had been the highlight of her life and that the Overcomers had also somehow helped her to stop smoking.

Speaker 2 I guess you can overcome a lot of stuff through Christ. Yeah, it just seems like they're giving them a lot of credit.
It's like Reiki. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And while this woman sounds innocent enough, and back then she absolutely seemed like she was just a regular 40-year-old English teacher, Miranda Stain would would become one of Cecilia Stain's most violent murderers just a few years later.

Speaker 2 Like Miranda Stain's pretty much her Tex Watson. And she was an English teacher, which is why you wonder, like, when you have that super mean teacher at school.
Like,

Speaker 2 they're an inch away from killing you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Now, about five or six months after Miranda became an overcomer, Rhea got a call from a former Satanist begging for help. Do you know over 30% of women can overcome?

Speaker 2 The person on the phone said that her name was Petro, but in reality, Petro was Cecilia Stain, 26 years old when she kicked off this entire operation. 26.

Speaker 2 She was actually 26. She just presents as a hard 38.
Yeah, she just has, she's got what you said, she's got 7-Eleven clerk face. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Now, Cecilia Stain was born Cecilia Brand in December of 1980 to Mara and Pete Brand.

Speaker 2 Pete was an electrician at various gold mines around the town of Harrismith and seemed to be a normal person, as was his wife Mara.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because the entire book, all they do is interview them while they're barbecuing. You notice that, right? You read

Speaker 2 all the chapters talking to her parents. It's just them barbecuing.
Yeah, they're very normal. Yeah, and they're all like, oh, you know, Cecilia crazy.

Speaker 2 They were religious, but not overly so. And Cecilia seemed to be a fairly normal, if mischievous, goth girl.

Speaker 2 Cecilia didn't have any friends and spent all her time wandering the ruins of abandoned buildings, catching spiders and snakes. She also had a discipline problem, but not too bad.

Speaker 2 I mean, she attacked anyone who gave her shit, but her father always said she was really proud. He was really proud of her for not ever letting anyone walk all over her.

Speaker 2 She smashed windows, she threw rocks at cars. Nothing horrific, nothing really that bad.
Seems like those were all bad things you listed.

Speaker 2 But not that bad. But compared to killing 11 people and torturing them and then cutting them up.
Yeah, she's not Joseph Fritzel. No.

Speaker 2 She's young.

Speaker 2 She'll get their fingers crossed.

Speaker 2 But in keeping with the times, Cecilia was expelled from school her freshman year, 1994, not for being mischievous, but because she was a goth kid and therefore must be involved in the occult.

Speaker 2 Now, this is a line from his from her father that he said that he always had issues with how Cecilia viewed herself. So this is what it was, even though like he was supportive of her rebelliousness.

Speaker 2 I just thought this was a funny comment.

Speaker 2 She's always been the greatest alcoholic, greatest lesbian, and greatest Satanist, Pete says. That's what happened that time when she got expelled from school, too.
She never meant it.

Speaker 2 She just said it. She must have said something similar to friends or to someone at school.
I think the court should refer to my child for psychological treatment.

Speaker 2 I think that she has a psychological problem. She had never been raped or molested or anything.
I never even hit her.

Speaker 2 Do you want to meddle?

Speaker 2 Well, this accusation was so bad that cops even searched her family's home to look for evidence of further satanic activity.

Speaker 2 Cecilia was thereafter moved to another school, where this time she was just seen as a pain in the ass instead of an occultist.

Speaker 2 She was asked to leave, but Cecilia would often lie and brag that she'd met all the requirements to graduate when she was still in the ninth grade and therefore she'd never needed to finish high school.

Speaker 2 You know, they ask me, you know, they actually offer for me to teach gym.

Speaker 2 That's how good a student I was. She looks like a gym teacher.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Now, by age 16, Cecilia left the goth world and devoted herself to God. This is like the equivalent of like, you know, when someone gets sober at 21? Yeah.

Speaker 2 And they get really serious about it. And they're all like, well, you know, I don't drink anymore.
And you're like, you find out they haven't drank in like 25 years.

Speaker 2 You know, you're like, it's all right, buddy. It's like, it kind of feels like that the way she left Satanism.
Yeah. She like, she literally just had black shirts and like a nose or something.

Speaker 2 Yeah, might have read a book. Yes.
Yeah. She underwent deliverance, which is a spiritual practice in which curses are broken and demons are driven out.

Speaker 2 It sounds like those videos you see at church services where people are exorcised in front of the whole congregation. One of my favorite is priority deliverance.

Speaker 2 It's only $2.99 more, but the deliverance comes immediately and you have to wait for it to get cold. You barely have to squeal like a pig.

Speaker 2 But what no one really knows is why and how Cecilia came to be such an effective manipulator.

Speaker 2 There's a black hole of information when it comes to Cecilia in her late teens and early 20s. Pretty much all we know is that she went to church and she was briefly married to a Romanian.

Speaker 2 The way I kind of, I think certain things are

Speaker 2 history comes around

Speaker 2 to a person finding their place.

Speaker 2 I do think that they are in that way where like she had a almost like, I guess that's what you'd call it. It was an unremarkable life.
Like

Speaker 2 not in a bad way, just a normal life. She had a son, which had a daughter, right? I think that they had

Speaker 2 a daughter. They had a daughter.
It seemed relatively quiet and home, but this obviously was brewing inside of her.

Speaker 2 I view her, her manipulation style as being different than any cult leader we've ever had. And the way I view this is like, like a gravity, where

Speaker 2 she used everybody's sympathy. against them versus like creating like cult leaders a lot of times create a problem and the solution, like dialectic, right?

Speaker 2 So they create the problem amongst the people and tell them about the problem, and then but they provide the solution.

Speaker 2 In this case, she was the problem, which I find interesting. She made herself like the kickoff point of the cult.
Yeah. And unlike a lot of other cult leaders, I've never seen another cult gamify.

Speaker 2 themselves the way this one did. It's just like QA, you know, it's just like QAnon is.
Like, that's what QAnon is. It's the gamification of conspiracy theory.

Speaker 2 And this is, and she does the exact same thing. She gamifies the entire thing and LARPs it.
Everything becomes a LARP.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 eventually, you LARP yourself into being a fucking murderer. I just LARP myself into becoming a comedian.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I just kill audiences.

Speaker 2 Well, things come back into focus in 2003 when Cecilia married a cop named Andres Stain during a shotgun wedding.

Speaker 2 Now, their marriage wasn't strained or abusive, but it is important to note that they lived completely separate lives.

Speaker 2 Andres had work and video games to keep him busy, while Cecilia had her own hobbies. She had an extensive collection of almost 500 knives and also had an impressive collection of 127 Zippo lighters.

Speaker 2 It's not the knives, but the Zippo collection.

Speaker 2 It's lesbian-coated.

Speaker 2 Oh, I do feel like in that way it does reveal that she was, she's definitely at least bisexual.

Speaker 2 Let me show you my lighter.

Speaker 2 All right, let me use this lighter. I can take a bad look at that pussy.
You wouldn't have to save extra gas for my lighter, would you?

Speaker 2 But really, knives were her main passion. That's my passion.
And she carried one with her everywhere she went.

Speaker 2 Now, from what it seems, collecting knives and Zippos weren't enough to fill Cecilia's day.

Speaker 2 Because when she was pregnant with her second child in 2006, she contacted Rhea Grunwald and the rest of the overcomers with outlandish tales of Satanism run amok.

Speaker 2 Because there I was trying to figure out like what was the real trigger point and the closest thing I got which was it but it wasn't it was two years later which was the Nick Dedrick's the high school slashing the samurai stabbings

Speaker 2 that happened at the time well we'll we'll definitely get into the samurai stabbings like later on yeah um and how was she as a mother like was she normal whatever did she pay attention to her children or they don't even bring it up also we don't know one thing that we don't know she probably abused her children we'll get to that here in a a second and we also don't really know whether or not she had begun the talk at home like if the concept of these things started at home and she built up the lore because oftentimes with say with these satanists remember mike warrenke the idea is that like they like one day quote unquote wake up from their programming and then they remember everything that's happened because the satanists are supposed to put a layer of hypnotism over you where you don't remember anything that happened.

Speaker 2 Well, her husband did say that he never believed any of her lies or delusions.

Speaker 2 delusions like he said he's he had heard it all and was like no this is also a warning to all you husbands out there that go get lost in video games in the other room for six hours at night stuff happens when you're in there on baldur's gate three

Speaker 2 dudes check in pop out check in make dinner yeah still believe in satan all right

Speaker 2 now we don't know why cecilia chose the overcomers and we don't really have any evidence of cecilia doing anything like this before it could be that she'd been hearing the satanist storyline her whole life and wanted to try it on for a while, then it got out of hand.

Speaker 2 Or it could be that she saw an opportunity for a scam, way to make money. Could also be that she was just really fucking bored.
And when people like this get bored, this is what they do.

Speaker 2 It sounds like it's the steps up. It sounds like it starts because you just wanted to try to be a Satanist to somebody else.
And eventually she, because it's mostly about the scam in the beginning.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, I mean, the scam took a little while to come in.
Yes. I mean, when Cecilia called Rhea, she already had a massive backstory all cooked up.

Speaker 2 And Rhea believed every single word Cecilia said because Rhea had been waiting her entire adult life for someone from the satanic community to reach out for help. This woman was begging.

Speaker 2 for this interaction. She wanted a Satanist to come forward.
And I, you know, in that way, I think Rhea sort of created the scenario and it all worked out for her.

Speaker 2 It almost sometimes we've talked a little bit about like roles. I think people want to fulfill roles in life.
And I think at some point, Cecilia's like, I'll be your Satanist. Yep.

Speaker 2 Now, Cecilia told Rhea that she'd cut bonds with the Satanic Church in October of 2006, about a month before the call, and she'd converted to Christianity after undergoing deliverance, which had expelled all the evil spirits that had been living within her.

Speaker 2 They made a crazy noise when they came out, too. They looked like little kernels of corn.

Speaker 2 Smartly, though, Cecilia did not say that she was the one who needed help. Instead, she invented a woman named Andrea, who was a former friend and current witch in the satanic church.

Speaker 2 Cecilia claimed Andrea had two children that she was going to sacrifice in a satanic ritual, and Cecilia needed Rhea's help to save the children.

Speaker 2 Can you even imagine that my fucking, my satanic union card ran out, and I still gotta pay, even though I ain't gotten out satanic rituals all year?

Speaker 2 And she completely made up Andrea. Yeah, absolutely.
She made up everything. Okay.

Speaker 2 Rhea said that there was a place in Krugersdorp where abandoned children could be safely held, if only they could get the kids away from Andrea.

Speaker 2 But Cecilia said that as a former Satanist, she knew that any member of the Satanic church could gain entry into any place they wanted. I'll still land you right now.

Speaker 2 You'll show you how easy it is. Oh, look.
Oh, I believe in Christ.

Speaker 2 Easy.

Speaker 2 Get right in there. It's so easy to say.

Speaker 2 Rhea frantically tried to come up with another option, but just when the pressure was taken to its maximum point, and that's what Cecilia was so fucking good at, is taking the pressure to the maximum point.

Speaker 2 Cecilia would relieve the pressure by saying she received a message that Andrea's children had been taken to safety. Because Rhea was calling people.
She was calling people.

Speaker 2 She was calling people in the city. She was trying to get the orphan interest involved.
She was trying to do all this stuff and cook it up because this is a great get for her.

Speaker 2 This is an amazing, like, I'm going to flip this whole Satanist community. Everybody's going to fucking love me.
Everybody's going to be overcoming. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Now, of course, this was all just a story, but the immediacy of it had fully pulled Rhea into Cecilia's world.

Speaker 2 But because Cecilia was a convincing storyteller who knew how to hook people that were obsessed with Satanism, it would take years before Rhea could pull herself out again. Years.
Years.

Speaker 2 See, from what Cecilia told Rhea, everyone in her family was into the occult, and Cecilia, a 42nd generation satanic witch, was intended to have been sacrificed in a satanic ritual by her father, the diabolical Mr.

Speaker 2 Brown. Yes, it is I, Mr.
Brand,

Speaker 2 and I barbecue chicken on the weekends. I drink a nice glass of white wine with my wife in the backyard.
Lost devilish.

Speaker 2 Mr. Brown was supposedly a high priest in the satanic church.
Yes, we're going to go down to the flea market.

Speaker 2 I want to look at a long table for the dining room door above the wall so we have a place upon our drinks when we play board games.

Speaker 2 The most devilish devilish of activities.

Speaker 2 Well, likewise, Cecilia's mother was a witch named Elise with a similarly strong satanic bloodline. Biological love.
Biological mother.

Speaker 2 Biological mother, yes. And to prove it, Cecilia showed Rhea a picture of a witchy woman saying, this is my mom.
Except this picture was not Cecilia's biological mother.

Speaker 2 Instead, it was a picture of Spanish actor Arlie Hover, who played the vampire with the slick back blonde hair in the first blade movie. Whoa.

Speaker 2 Okay, okay. Well, you know, that's a good choice.
Yeah, it is. I mean, if you're going to choose a vampire, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, yeah, she's attractive. Yeah, she said that's her mom.

Speaker 2 Yeah, she said that's her mom. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Mama be hot. Yeah, yeah.
And plus, no one saw that blade. Yeah.

Speaker 2 The first blade was great. First blade was great.
Yeah. But she's a blade too, right?

Speaker 2 I think she was in the first blade. Oh, she was in the first Blade, then, you know, bad choice.

Speaker 2 But that's the thing is that she knew that Rhea wouldn't have seen Blade because Blade is a satanic movie.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so she knew. That's the thing about her, is that she knew all these little areas, she knew all the areas that she could hit because she knew which areas that Rhea avoided.

Speaker 2 You know, she knew these people.

Speaker 2 She's a fucking master manipulator. And in Blade, they had Stephen Dorp.

Speaker 2 Don't do this to him.

Speaker 2 As we've we've heard from other satanic panic stories, Cecilia claimed that her father subjected her to ritualistic abuse from birth because being tortured ritualistically somehow makes you a stronger satanic witch.

Speaker 2 According to the podcast, The Best Friend. by Candace, who is Was Rhea's best friend,

Speaker 2 Chronicles of the Krugersdorf killers, she talks about how her father, Cecilia, told her that her father would torture her fetus while she was inside of her pregnant mother by sticking needles up her vagina into the fetus, right?

Speaker 2 Which I don't even think works.

Speaker 2 It doesn't work like that, does it? I don't know. I've never been there.
I've never done it. Never tried it.
I don't know how far my finger goes up for the pregnant lady.

Speaker 2 And so they stick it up there. But what that does is it starts to destroy your personality in the womb.
That's how you get multiple personality disorder when you're born.

Speaker 2 It's the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard in my life. Or is it so dumb that it's right? Well, you put needles up there.
She could be born with stigmata.

Speaker 2 Well, speaking of stigmata, Cecilia claimed that she had supernatural powers from the satanic ritual abuse.

Speaker 2 Those powers, however, had gone away when she converted to Christianity, which is the magical equivalent of saying you have a girlfriend in Canada.

Speaker 2 And like the girlfriend lie, Cecilia was able to talk a big game about what she had once been capable of.

Speaker 2 She said that she had telepathy, telekinesis, she could walk on water, pretty much made herself a fucking X-Man.

Speaker 2 But to give it an edge of reality, Cecilia would take screenshots of horror movies about the occult, presumably stuff like The Devil's Reign or To the Devil a Daughter, fucking incredible movies.

Speaker 2 Then she would insist that the fuzzy figure in the background was her demonstrating some sort of magical power. I've got to tell you, Ernest Borgni

Speaker 2 was such a professional. And this was my favorite set because we got this incredible pasta salad.

Speaker 2 That said,

Speaker 2 because I requested it as an agent of the devil.

Speaker 2 Yeah, pasta salad is satanic. I fucking hate pasta salad.

Speaker 2 It's not satanic. It's actually quite angelic because it's bad.
I don't like pasta salad.

Speaker 2 Am I around two people that don't like pasta salad? I like macaroni salad.

Speaker 2 Isn't macaroni salad pasta salad? No, it's macaroni salad. But macaroni is pasta.
I don't like cold pasta. Macaroni salad is not pasta salad.
Pasta salad, I would say, is different entirely.

Speaker 2 It's entirely different sub-bread. Well, what kind of pasta is a pasta salad? Rigatoni.
Rigatoni's in that.

Speaker 2 Or, yes, rigatoni, i would put it's a cold noodle salad how about spaghetti can use spaghetti in a pasta salad no no why not because then it's spaghetti

Speaker 2 spaghetti salad if you make it if you put spaghetti cold spaghetti get out of my house yeah although i love cold spaghetti i do too only grab a whole handful of it why do we down my throat why am i totally fine with eating cold as a meal cold egg elbow noodles cold rotten noodles i'm fine with eating it but cold spaghetti i'm like what is this like if you were to serve me cold spaghetti i'd be like like, are you fucking with me?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Is this like you trying to tell me to go fuck myself? I mean, serve, yes, but a handful out of your fridge. That's different.
Delightful. That's my right.
That's your spaghetti. That's my spaghetti.

Speaker 2 It's bizarre. It's a bizarre way to eat spaghetti.
No, it's fun.

Speaker 2 Just give in. Give in, man.
You got to relax. Back to Cecilia.
Cecilia.

Speaker 2 She likes spaghetti.

Speaker 2 Well, Cecilia claimed to be able to morph into a werewolf or a vampire, producing fanged teeth and or blood every time she did it. These transformations.
Greedy. It's one or the other.
Well,

Speaker 2 she was officially a werewolf. Yes, she was officially a werewolf.
And these transformations were actually caught on video.

Speaker 2 But unfortunately for the hopeful believers, Cecilia can clearly be seen putting in a set of fake teeth in her mouth before presenting as a werewolf.

Speaker 2 What she used to do was tell the people that were closest to her that she was about to change. And she'd go like, oh,

Speaker 2 covering her mouth. I mean it.
If you listen to the description of her changing into a werewolf from Candace's point of view,

Speaker 2 you just, I just am,

Speaker 2 I'm extremely puzzled because they come in, she's like, she did never want to show anybody the change. So what she would do is go away, right?

Speaker 2 And then she'd go into another room and come back and says, I'm all done being a werewolf now. I just changed and I changed back.
And then she'd be like, wow.

Speaker 2 And then another time she fell asleep in the bed, right? And they all all fell asleep. They were supposed to be watching her.
She said, oh, I'm going to change into a werewolf tonight.

Speaker 2 They all fell asleep. She woke up in the night and then she apparently she turned into a werewolf and then came back.

Speaker 2 And the way she proved it all is that there was, I mean this, a single hair in the bed. And she's like, see, that was when I turned into a werewolf.

Speaker 2 Meanwhile, you got a bunch of fucking, you have the flimsiest, what I even call a set of hair. You have a crown of hair.
It looks like, honestly,

Speaker 2 it's a bloomin' onion. She has a bloomin' onion on her head.
It's just loose ass, broken ass, fucking weird, crispy ends.

Speaker 2 I'll tell you what, you want to convince someone you're a werewolf while they're asleep, shit on the floor. Her hair.
Seriously. If her hair, if you ate her hair, it would be 1800 calories.

Speaker 2 But when it came to the powers Cecilia claimed to still have, she said that she could travel through the astral realm, which is how she was able to know so much about what was happening all over the world at any given time.

Speaker 2 Amongst other places, Cecilia said that she could travel to the moon.

Speaker 2 The moon! You could go all the way to the moon.

Speaker 2 You bet. I go to the moon every Thursday.
Oh, no way.

Speaker 2 What's it like in the moon? It's cold.

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 2 I bet.

Speaker 2 I bet I stroke.

Speaker 2 It's the devil's cheese.

Speaker 2 Now, instead of being married to just some cop, Cecilia said that she was really married to Satan and had proof in writing.

Speaker 2 don't tie him fucking down like that. Well, as a bride of Satan, it was her task to open the gates of hell on earth and bring about extreme chaos.
Cool.

Speaker 2 To her credit, though she may not have opened the gates of hell, she definitely caused extreme chaos. Oh, yes.

Speaker 2 Now, Cecilia claimed to be the most powerful witch in all of Krugersdorp, which is batting the minor leagues a bit if she really was a massively powerful satanic witch.

Speaker 2 To put it into perspective, it's like being the most powerful witch in San Bernardino. Hey, you don't, I'm not messing with you, San Bernardino.
There are just serious San Bernardino witches.

Speaker 2 We had a mountain. It's the wrong town.
It's the wrong town. I was in Bakersfield.
No, no, no. Do you think they got witches?

Speaker 2 You know, I actually looked around and I started things like, Fresno, uh-oh, I'm not fucking with Fresno. I'm definitely not fucking with Bakersfield.
You know whoever it is? San Jose.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. You're the best witch in San Jose.
Mostly, you just make very good, like, I want to say lengua.

Speaker 2 Well, San Jose is pretty, but that's, it's a little too big. It's a little too big.
Like if it's

Speaker 2 Oregon.

Speaker 2 Yeah, most powerful witch in Ben. Actually, I'd say the most powerful.
I've already mentioned it once, but it's similar in size. It's the most powerful witch in Abilene, Texas.
Very much so.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. That's about what it would be like.
Compromise reached.

Speaker 2 But because Cecilia was such a powerful witch, her name itself was full of demonic power. So she insisted that everyone simply call her C instead of Cecilia.
You couldn't say the name Cecilia.

Speaker 2 But don't you spell it out wrong? It's just the letter. I don't want you putting out here or look or taste because I'm too powerful of a bitch.

Speaker 2 I didn't know Jackie was here.

Speaker 2 That's what it is.

Speaker 2 When Cecilia turned her back on Satan, she claimed her life became very dangerous.

Speaker 2 When she wasn't under constant attack from Satan's supernatural forces, witches were constantly bothering her to try and bring her back into Satan's fold.

Speaker 2 The danger, Cecilia said, was that she would be murdered if she didn't go back because she knew too much about the workings of the satanic church's inner circles. But then why do they want her back?

Speaker 2 No. They keep trying to get her back.
None of it makes sense. That's the thing, is that

Speaker 2 it's purposefully confusing. Because remember that this is all being fed to Rhea over a very short period of time.
It's like two hangout sessions. Yes.

Speaker 2 All of this is told to her over two hangout sessions. She's just downloading all this information, and these guys are...

Speaker 2 That's why, like this is the first one of these in terms of a cult like normally we have I actually feel on last podcast and left we came really good and got around to the idea of realizing like having sympathy with members of cults sure because you know a lot of times it's just looking for something better it's looking for connection there's many myriads of ways normal people end up in cults but something like this where these people really there's something about maybe it's just i and i don't want to put my full anti-religion bias in there but there's something about this idea that I'm chosen.

Speaker 2 I have these superpowers. I have to show the world the power of my superpowers of Christ.
And this woman needs me, which is literally what she then keyed into. Yes.

Speaker 2 And behind everything was Cecilia's father, the fiendish, malevolent, wicked Mr. Brad.
Yes!

Speaker 2 Would you know? I just bought us all season tickets to Six Flags. We can go whenever we want, except for the big-time summer holidays.
Most devilish. And Saturdays, of course.

Speaker 2 Now, as far as I can tell, this was all told to Rhea Grunwald during the first two times that she and Cecilia met.

Speaker 2 And sometime after the second meeting, Cecilia called Rhea using a different voice to tell Rhea that Cecilia was in trouble.

Speaker 2 Somebody else. Hey! Hey!

Speaker 2 It's not Rhea! Where is me? It's not Cecilia. Hey! Gonna come get you.
Come get your lady.

Speaker 2 She's all sorts of screwed up. Well, Rhea dropped what she was doing and raced to Cecilia's apartment.
Someone needs me.

Speaker 2 Yeah, where she found Cecilia lying on her bed with red welts covering her back. According to Cecilia, the wicked Mr.
Brand had dropped by to punish her for telling satanic secrets.

Speaker 2 This only served to bond Rhea and Cecilia further. From that point on, if Rhea wasn't doing enrichment weeks with Overcoming Through Christ, she was spending her time with Cecilia.

Speaker 2 Cecilia's husband, meanwhile, just stayed out of it completely. Oh, yeah.
At least for the time being. Just happy to play his games.
He really is.

Speaker 2 It's just like it's the only spouse of a murderer that I'm like, oh, he knew nothing.

Speaker 2 Of all of them,

Speaker 2 that man purposely sat with noise-canceling headphones. Yeah.
He was becoming a nothing in the other room. Oh, no.

Speaker 2 Every time they came over,

Speaker 2 every time Cecilia's friends came over, they either went straight into Cecilia's room or he would leave the room altogether.

Speaker 2 I want nothing to do with this. I want absolutely nothing to do with this bullshit.
But in order to really hook Rhea, Cecilia upped the stagecraft to flesh out the world she was creating.

Speaker 2 And this is where she's honestly a fucking genius. One day, Rhea arrived at Cecilia's house to find that Cecilia's child had blisters on her hand.
Cecilia claimed that Mr.

Speaker 2 Brand had come over and pressed the child's hands onto a hot stove to punish Cecilia for refusing to return to Satan. Yes.
And then

Speaker 2 he used all the ice.

Speaker 2 After that, Cecilia got a hold of a bunch of burner phones so she could send Rhea threatening text messages that were supposedly from a whole series of witches in Satan's service.

Speaker 2 And all this made Rhea so fucking wet.

Speaker 2 Yeah, like that's the thing. All this just

Speaker 2 she loves this. These messages would threaten both Rhea and Cecilia with murder, saying that there was nothing either of them could do to stop it.

Speaker 2 But to keep her off balance, Cecilia would also send messages from these numbers praising her for resisting Satan. I wish I could be like Cecilia.
I wish I could get out.

Speaker 2 One number supposedly belonged to the Andrea character Cecilia created, who kept sending Rhea messages about how terrified she was that her children were going to be sacrificed.

Speaker 2 Another number claimed to be Elise, Cecilia's fake mother. Here's an example of a text from Elise, who told Rhea that Satan communicated with Cecilia in her dreams.

Speaker 2 Her eyes are broken, and there's something there I haven't seen before. And if I can see it, the witches can too.
So if you can help, please say so. She can't bear any more of this.

Speaker 2 You know that, right?

Speaker 2 She keeps saying she's okay, but she's not okay. And Mr.
Brand won't stop.

Speaker 2 And as far as Rhea's concerned, that's from a satanic high witch. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sexy.

Speaker 2 You gotta call your satanic witches. You can't just deal a text.
I just feel like at some point, you're like, do you really, do we need this in writing?

Speaker 2 I feel like there's a lot of Satanist secrets that are all just kind of being willy-nilly shot all over the place.

Speaker 2 It feels like maybe if they're coming for you, they should technically come for them and come for us.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Now, this doesn't make any sense coming from a high priestess of Satan.
No. But that's part of the point.
Yes. Cecilia was trying to confuse Rhea on every level.

Speaker 2 And it's very important to remember that Rhea wasn't looking looking at all this like a bothersome, if elaborate, prank.

Speaker 2 As far as she was concerned, she was in direct contact with agents of Satan in their most evil form. People who sacrifice and eat babies several times a year in their unholy rituals.

Speaker 2 But I'll have them know. Me and my team of saviors, we're gonna overcome all over those ritual babies.

Speaker 2 We're gonna overcome all over these witches. We're gonna overcome all of these devils.
We're going to overcome and come and overcome and overcome.

Speaker 2 And we're going to leave them dripping with the power of Christ.

Speaker 2 But while Cecilia did make Rhea's world unbearably terrifying, she also confirmed every awful thing that Rhea had ever suspected. She's so happy.

Speaker 2 Life has purpose. There really was a satanic cabal, which made Rhea's life far more interesting and made her group, Overcomers Through Christ, that much more important.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they used to be just a bunch of shitheads in a conference room. Now they are fighting the devil themselves.
Yeah. Now, Rhea, of course, couldn't keep Cecilia to herself forever.

Speaker 2 In late 2007, Rhea introduced Cecilia to Candace Riavis, who had designed the logo for Overcomers Through Christ.

Speaker 2 Now, you can see here what I did is it's a O for overcomers, and then a T that's like a crucifix. That's what Christ died on.

Speaker 2 And a C here,

Speaker 2 that's for Christ.

Speaker 2 Very Very creative, Candace. Very good.

Speaker 2 But Candace and Cecilia hit it off and soon became lovers. And before long, Cecilia told Candace her story about being a reformed Satanist.

Speaker 2 And just like Rhea, Candace believed every single thing Cecilia told her. Poor, poor Candace.
Poor Candace also said that she had, what's the term?

Speaker 2 Is that what the thing when you got when you're pathological, when you fucking have to be with somebody? Oh, codependent.

Speaker 2 Yeah, she said that she had codependent problems and she and her, there's something about her. Like, have you ever seen Cecilia talk? No.

Speaker 2 In footage of her talking, you can tell exactly what this type of person is. You know, somebody who does a thing, I can't stand over familiarity.

Speaker 2 When people are overly familiar with me, my first thing is, get the fuck away from me, right? That freaks me out. This, but it sometimes has an opposite effect on people like that are codependent.

Speaker 2 Candace viewed, Cecilia did the thing where she's like,

Speaker 2 I don't believe in small talk. We're going to talk all about my horrible memories.
And then Candace was like, oh my God, that's a moment.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? Like, so excited to hear about your trauma because then you get closer. Yes.
It's much better than talking about the weather. Yeah, yeah, because the weather sometimes kills you.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Especially in South Africa.
Yes. That's the thing.
Is where Rhea held a maternal role, Candace was in a romantic position. And both of them were convinced they needed to save Cecilia.

Speaker 2 What's interesting, though, is that Candace and Rhea hardly ever spoke to each other, nor did they talk to each other about Cecilia, at least in the beginning.

Speaker 2 It's because they were fucking jealous, and I'm actually pretty certain that Rhea and Cecilia slept together as well. You think so? She floated.
Cecilia floated that Rhea and her slept together.

Speaker 2 And Rhea said, obviously not,

Speaker 2 because she had to. But I have a feeling a little bit of fucking scissoring was going on in that fucking apartment.
And I'm not talking about making graphs.

Speaker 2 Now, eventually, Rhea Grunwall brought the rest of the Overcomers Through Christ into the game. And soon enough, the so-called satanic high holidays became big events for the group because of Cecilia.

Speaker 2 On Valpurgisnacht or Sawen or what have you, the Overcomers would all gather at Cecilia's apartment to sing and pray while playing Christian music in the background.

Speaker 2 And this was all while Cecilia put on an intense hour-long performance. Honestly, this must have been so cool.
This must have been like seeing the boss in that little like off-Broadway.

Speaker 2 Yeah, like the 800-seater. Yeah.
Like she would put on hours-long fake possessions. Yeah, yeah.
Well, they weren't necessarily possessions, they were attacks.

Speaker 2 See, before things would kick off, the Overcomers believed that they needed to prevent demons from entering Cecilia's body.

Speaker 2 So they would plug her up by putting their hands over her nose, mouth, ears, vagina, and buttholes. Yes, I said buttholes.

Speaker 2 Doctor, you don't think the stinkiest mouth ain't the perfect resting place for the devil himself? Now, is she naked doing all this? No, no, she's doing all the clothes. She's a big old clothes.

Speaker 2 Well, they're not really covering it.

Speaker 2 You ain't got to get it in there. Do you see? You dumbass man.
Is that what I have them do is take two fingers and press the fabric of my pants up into my butthole like a stopper.

Speaker 2 And they would do the same for my pussy horse. Cecilia, you're not an overcomer.
You're an oversharer.

Speaker 2 But once the end of the performance came, I was was overcome.

Speaker 2 But at around 11 p.m., Cecilia would start jerking around and screaming.

Speaker 2 She would make bizarre sounds of pain while blood bubbled out of her mouth.

Speaker 2 According to Cecilia, this was because witches had forced her soul to leave her body via astral projection to the location where that high holiday satanic ritual was taking place.

Speaker 2 At that time, it was taking place in Delaware.

Speaker 2 How is she making blood come out of her mouth? We'll get to that in a second. Cecilia's soul would bond with a kidnapped child that was being sacrificed on an altar somewhere in Krugersdorp.

Speaker 2 And the overcomers believed that if they prayed hard enough, they could save both Cecilia and the child. They also believed that if they failed, Cecilia would die right in front of them.

Speaker 2 And of course, the child would die as well. Cecilia, you're breaking my heart.
Yeah, you know?

Speaker 2 But around midnight, Cecilia would suddenly become calm and announce that her soul had returned to her body. We did it, y'all!

Speaker 2 She'd then clean up the blood that had bubbled out of her mouth and would tell everyone to leave, making sure to add that they better be prepared for the next high holiday.

Speaker 2 It's me, Jackson, Satanic genital, and I gotta say, I'm getting too old for this shit.

Speaker 2 Now, the thing that a lot of these overcomers would point to as something that couldn't be explained was the incredible amount of blood that would come out of Cecilia's mouth during her spiritual attacks.

Speaker 2 How, they would ask, ask, could someone spontaneously make themselves bleed from their mouth in the volume that Cecilia did without cutting or biting herself?

Speaker 2 Well, the answer is more cheap dumb tricks. The key here is dumb tricks.
You would really be surprised. I think the audience would really be surprised how much confidence can sell things.

Speaker 2 And if you're in the throes of the sell already, when you have the whole thing going on, people don't want to see.

Speaker 2 That's the biggest thing about it is that people are, you would be very surprised at what people won't see if they don't want to see it. They don't want to see you scamming them.

Speaker 2 But I feel, because Candace started talking about this even herself, that on some level, she wondered, what is happening here? Yeah. It's almost like when people play along with hypnotists.

Speaker 2 Yes. Well, according to Cecilia's ex-girlfriend Candace, Cecilia would take a surgical glove and cut the finger off.
She would then draw her own blood with a syringe and fill each finger.

Speaker 2 She'd then tie off the finger and then put the blood balloon in her mouth. Well, it's like murder fist.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Except she used real blood. Hey, man, that makes those posters, I guess.

Speaker 2 No, it just makes all of you very sticky from all the high-fructose corn syrup. Yes, it did.
K-Ro, love you. Piss you.

Speaker 2 Well, later, when she felt like having a satanic fit and needed an extra push, she would pop one of the fingers of blood with her teeth, which would enable her to spit a large amount of blood that seemed to prove that satanic witches were attacking her organs.

Speaker 2 And I've seen videos of it. It looks fucking terrifying.
She does a good job. It is also a group of them all going like,

Speaker 2 because they all go do the tongue prayers on you. And they're all having a great time.
So does she have a blood balloon in her mouth? Like the whole like speech? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, that's the thing: is that she goes quiet. It's like she'll go very quiet.
She sits. She sits and she kind of sits and she sits silently.
Then she lays down rigid. Then then the attack starts.

Speaker 2 But she can't talk because her soul has left her body. Annie, you fucking idiot.
I'm so stupid. So consistently stupid.

Speaker 2 Oh, this sounds absolutely crazy. And it is.
Oh, yeah. But Cecilia was just getting started.
One by one, she was starting to draw more people from the overcomers to her side.

Speaker 2 They believed in her bravery. They worshipped it.
But more importantly, they trusted her inside knowledge of the occult. It also made them, I'm going to go on a limb and just say, feel cool.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because Cecilia became the star of OTC. Yeah.
But you got to forget that, too. It's like within this, she's getting, well, we talked about this, positive validation.

Speaker 2 She is getting people all being like, oh my God, Cecilia, we care so much about you. Oh, my God, Cecilia, what's wrong with you?

Speaker 2 And in that, she turned the whole organization on its head because the entire fucking thing became about her. Yeah, so we talked about Candace and Rhea.
How many overcomers are there at this point?

Speaker 2 I want to say there was... Like maybe 10? No, it was bigger than that.
Was it bigger than that? It was Overcomers Through Christ was they had a

Speaker 2 her own cult is only like six people. Yeah, okay.
They had their own board, but it was mostly courses you paid to go take. Yeah, maybe like 20.
Yes. So it's like UCB.
Oh, very much so.

Speaker 2 Exactly the same. Well, Cecilia created a world for these people to exist within, a world that no one else could see or experience.

Speaker 2 And it was within that world, in the name of battling the satanic church, that Cecilia would command her followers to murder 11 people.

Speaker 2 And that is where we'll pick back up next week for the Cougarsdorp cult murders part two. This is thick.
This is really fucking thick. This is going to be a three-part series.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because the next step, like, no one's heard of this, really, out in America. There's some coverage of it, but it's small.
I've never heard of this shit before.

Speaker 2 This is, I was, I literally just stumbled upon this in a documentary, and I can't believe that we had not heard about the story especially for how much satanic panic and we've covered all over the years but this is very uh i just find it it's it's just getting thicker and honestly it just gets dumber it does too it's that's this is also one of those cases which actually we found a couple of times where there's something about the dumb ramping up the violence like there's something about those two i don't know why we saw it with most violence is very stupid or you have to be kind of stupid to do it yeah in many ways yeah this happened between 2012 and 2016.

Speaker 2 2000, yeah. Well, the first murders were 2012.
Was it 2012 the first series? The satanic murders were 2012. Absolutely, yeah.
It's fucking wild. Yeah, but this is brand new.
Yeah, 2012 and 2016.

Speaker 2 So, hey, guys, if you're looking to start a satanic cult, there's still time.

Speaker 2 I don't let anybody tell you.

Speaker 2 Life ain't over at 30.

Speaker 2 You can start a cult now. It's actually safer for you to start a satanic cult than have a child.
All right. Think about that.
Go to patreon.com/slash last podcast on the left.

Speaker 2 You can watch us yell and scream and flop about. You also can see us live on Tuesdays for live stream on the left.
It's fun, it's good. You like it.
You know that you do.

Speaker 2 Go to at LP on the left on all of the social horseshits. Yeah, that's for the fucking garbage.
Europe, we are coming. We are overcoming to you.
We're overcoming all of the wonderful countries.

Speaker 2 We're just not coming to mainland Europe at all. We're going to the islands surrounding mainland Europe.
That's as good as

Speaker 2 you're going to get.

Speaker 2 Coming to London and Reykjavik.

Speaker 2 All you island people, we're coming to you. We cannot wait.
Go to lastpodcastonleft.com. You can get those tickets right there.
Los Angeles, Brooklyn, London, and Iceland. We're going to be coming.

Speaker 2 So come on out. Check out tickets.
Lastpodcastonthleft.com is where you can find it. All right.
We'll see you soon. Bye.
And hail Satan, who's been maligned this whole time. Yeah.

Speaker 2 He's got nothing to do. Because you know what's funny about all this shit? Almost got nothing to do with Satan.
Yeah. It's all gone.
Yep, it really is.

Speaker 2 Wow, that's so impressive. You know what? Scariest guy of all.
Yeah. Unhelging.

Speaker 2 I'm going to hail Satan again. Thank you.
All right, there you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Today he deserves it. Yeah, he does.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he'll get the respect he deserves. Come on, kiss his butthole.
All right.

Speaker 2 Be chosen.

Speaker 1 Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena and I'm Ash.
And we are the hosts of Morbid Podcast. Each week we dive into the dark and fascinating world of true crime, spooky history, and the unexplained.

Speaker 1 From infamous killers and unsolved mysteries to haunted places and strange legends, we cover it all with research, empathy, humor, and a few creative expletives.

Speaker 1 It's smart, it's spooky, and it's just the right amount of weird. Two new episodes drop every week, and there's even a bonus once a month.
Find us wherever you listen to podcasts.

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