Lovett or Leave It Presents: Bravo, America! (with Dorinda Medley)

Speaker 1 it or leave it is brought to you by Built. Nobody wants to pay rent, but if you have to, Built makes it worth it.

Speaker 1 Built is revolutionizing how millions think about paying rent by rewarding their members with points and exclusive benefits all around their neighborhood every single month.

Speaker 1 By paying rent through BILT, you earn flexible points that can be redeemed through hundreds of hotels and airlines, a future rent payment, your next lift ride, and more. But it doesn't stop there.

Speaker 1 Built is about making your entire neighborhood more rewarding.

Speaker 1 You can dine out at your favorite local restaurants and earn additional points, get VIP treatment at certain fitness studios, and enjoy exclusive experiences just for Build members every month.

Speaker 1 Built is turning the monthly expense into an opportunity to earn rewards and discover the best that your neighborhood has to offer. Your rent is finally working for you.

Speaker 1 Earn points on rent around your neighborhood, wherever you call home, by going to joinbuilt.com/slash love it. That's joinbuilt, j-o-i-n-b-i-l-t dot com slash love it.

Speaker 1 Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you.

Speaker 1 Trump says this kind of thing all the time, which is:

Speaker 1 it's great to be loved.

Speaker 1 It's fine to to be hated. The only thing you can't be is boring.

Speaker 2 I agree.

Speaker 1 And, you know, we talked.

Speaker 2 I can't believe I'm agreeing with that, but okay. I know.
That's going to be the first time I agree.

Speaker 1 Hopefully it was the last.

Speaker 1 Hey, everybody, it's John Lovett. Welcome back to Love It or Leave It Presents.
Bravo, America.

Speaker 1 I'm sitting down with some of my favorite personalities from reality TV because I genuinely believe that you cannot understand politics in this moment if you don't understand the dynamics of reality television.

Speaker 1 Here's how Congresswoman Sarah McBride put it on Pod Save America earlier this year.

Speaker 3 Some of my colleagues are treating me the way they are treating me for a couple of reasons. One, it's because they want attention, right? They want to employ the strategies of a Bravo TV show

Speaker 3 to get attention in a body of 435 people. And the way to do that is to pick a fight with someone and throw wine in their face.

Speaker 1 Today is a big day for me because I am talking to the one and only Dorinda Medley, one of the icons from the Real Housewives of New York, the queen of making it nice.

Speaker 1 It was so much fun talking to Dorinda about everything from how she sees her time on Roney, her thoughts on what our elected officials can learn from the housewives, and surprisingly, how she feels about her former castmate, Ramona Singer, today, and Ramona's chances if she ever decided to run for office.

Speaker 1 Truly, it was such a blast, such a like charismatic, interesting, and vulnerable person, but also a really tough person, which is, I think, two of the qualities that made her such an amazing figure on reality television.

Speaker 1 So here she is, the one and only Dorinda Medley.

Speaker 1 I just want you to know when we finish, everybody wants to gather for a photo. Oh, I'd love that.

Speaker 2 Gotcha.

Speaker 1 Here are the people that we've done that for, that have been, people have been so excited about that we've done the photos. Kamala Harris.
Oh, Bernie Sanders. Okay.
Megan Rapino. What?

Speaker 1 Elizabeth Warren. Who else is on that list?

Speaker 1 Julia Louis Dreyfus.

Speaker 1 A lot of people don't. Bill Nye, the science guy.
A lot of people don't make the list.

Speaker 2 Obviously, I'm doing something right outside of housewives.

Speaker 1 Dorinda. Yes.
Welcome.

Speaker 2 I'm very excited to be here.

Speaker 1 So you and I have something in common,

Speaker 1 which is we have a shared experience. And it is this.
We know what it is like to fly halfway across the world, film a reality competition show,

Speaker 1 then spend six months having people say how excited they are to see how we do, and not being able to say

Speaker 1 how we did. Yes.

Speaker 1 Very, very,

Speaker 2 I had to exercise a lot of discipline on that one, a lot. I would walk down the street and people would be like, oh my God, I'm so excited for you to be on Trainers.

Speaker 2 And I'd be like, well, don't get that excited. I mean, it was really hard.

Speaker 1 I was on a plane and Julia Louis Dreyfus was like, I'm so excited. You're going to be on Survivor.
And I can't wait to see how you do. And I'm just thinking, oh,

Speaker 1 she's going to watch me go home first.

Speaker 2 Oh, I'm going to tell you something. I was in such a state of depression.
When I walked in, first of all, I'm thinking, I've got this.

Speaker 2 My daughter, who

Speaker 2 is at Harvard getting her PhD, so she studied the whole thing. I had a 20-page dissertation, how I've broken down the UK one versus read that.
I was reading the art of war.

Speaker 2 I was reading all these poets. I was working.
I spent like $10,000 on trainers. The clothes.

Speaker 1 The clothes. The clothes.

Speaker 1 The looks.

Speaker 2 And I'm thinking, I am smarter.

Speaker 2 I am a warrior. And guess what happened? The piece of paper, you are murdered.
I was beside myself.

Speaker 1 It's unbelievable.

Speaker 2 With fear and grief. It was a combination of fear and grief.
And I think it was because I was like, how do I, like, first of all, I got to go home.

Speaker 2 First of all, you can't even leave your apartment or be on social media. So you literally go from being sequestered to being sequestered in your life.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because you can't. You have to pretend like you're still there.

Speaker 1 And I don't know if you had this feeling because.

Speaker 1 Failure.

Speaker 2 Well, sure. Humiliation.
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 Fear. But also sadness.
Halfway around the world to get punched in the face. No one made you do it.
You chose to do it.

Speaker 2 Well, I didn't think about it like that. I just was so deeply disappointed because it was the first time, and this was the great, I always say you walk away from everything with a learn,

Speaker 2 hopefully a lesson. Yeah.
And it was the first time that I couldn't control it.

Speaker 2 You know, like on the housewives, it's not that you can control it, but you can sort of very cleverly create your narrative and manipulate others.

Speaker 2 Like this was the first time that it really was a game of chance. I couldn't even, I remember calling someone at NBC and saying, I'm so sorry that I disappointed you.
He's like, you didn't.

Speaker 2 You weren't even long enough, on long enough. They just, in fact, we think in the long run, it's going to be a compliment to you because they obviously were afraid of you at some level.

Speaker 2 And of course, I couldn't buy into that because I'm just thinking, but it actually worked out fine because I think I got as much press as the winners. In fact, I may have gotten more.

Speaker 1 I'll tell you something.

Speaker 1 They got you out because you're a threat. That worked on me.
That made me feel better about it.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 you first pop up on Real Housewives in an earlier season as a friend.

Speaker 2 A couple times. A couple times.
Not even as a friend, just as background.

Speaker 1 Just as background, you're just in the background.

Speaker 2 Well, as their friend, yeah, but not in a friend role.

Speaker 1 Right, right. Not an official friend role.
You just were on the show. You're all friends.
You're all friends.

Speaker 1 Is it true that you were offered, or at least you had entertained the idea of being on the show a few years before you were ultimately on it?

Speaker 2 Well, here's the thing.

Speaker 2 It was a very different way they, the way they handled it back then. Now I think it's gotten much more formal and official.
And

Speaker 2 back then, you know, we all just do each other. So like, I remember it was Ramona's like, they're doing a show.

Speaker 2 And we're all like hanging out somewhere, you know, just dropped her because her daughter went to school with my daughter.

Speaker 2 So it was like they're doing a show and they're going to follow us, all of us around. And they're going to, we're going to, I'm thinking, well, why?

Speaker 2 Like, that's the most ridiculous why would they follow you around right

Speaker 2 and at the time um Hannah was at a private school and I wasn't with her father anymore so he would have never uh considered it and I just was at a different point in my life where first of all I really didn't understand the concept and B I just wasn't in a position where I could I wanted my daughter on TV so young right I just thought

Speaker 2 And so I just started Ramona and all of them would be like, well, come to this, come to that.

Speaker 2 So it always was like, are you gonna come on next year are you gonna come on next year and you know after I married Richard I couldn't do it either because he was involved in speech writing for Hillary Clinton and the Council of Foreign Relations so then I had to be that wife you know the political wife that was very upreast and you know fancy and chic and then after he passed Ramona's like okay now it's time and it wasn't very formal I went and had lunch with

Speaker 2 one of the people and they said, okay, and I did a film and that's it. I got a contract.

Speaker 2 I was originally only going to do it one year and kind of try to be a friend of, but obviously that didn't work. I'll tell you one thing, bud.

Speaker 2 I remember I was in Ramona Singer's kitchen doing our first scene in the Hamptons. And I remember that camera coming around and thinking, oh,

Speaker 2 I like the camera and I think the camera likes me.

Speaker 1 So that's what?

Speaker 1 This is

Speaker 1 great.

Speaker 1 What, what?

Speaker 1 Yeah, you definitely clearly were, you found your calling.

Speaker 1 But what was your,

Speaker 1 I think you might have, but what was your feeling?

Speaker 2 That's a positive and a negative, but let's go with it.

Speaker 1 Right, well, we'll get to that. But like, what was your impression of reality TV before you were on it? Like, what did you think about it? Had you consumed it? Were you aware of it?

Speaker 2 Well, I watched it, of course. We all, I mean, back then, reality TV was such a new concept.
I mean, Bravo and all that kind of thing, they weren't really real channels to anyone yet.

Speaker 2 So you got to remember, I come from the era where Bravo, you're like, I hate to say it and they're going to kill me, but it was kind of like a skip channel. You're like, oh, what is this Bravo, right?

Speaker 2 And then the reality TV kind of, this concept was so new, even before The Housewives, when we had Queer Eye for a Straight Guy, wow, what is that?

Speaker 2 And so you started to engage at a different level, which was reality. And

Speaker 2 even I, as a viewer, you know, started to fall in love with the character.

Speaker 2 So you really thought in a different way, you know, you watch a movie, you don't really know these people, you know, they're acting, but all of a sudden, you're like, I really like that guy, Tom Felicia.

Speaker 2 I think we're going to be friends. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 There's definitely a crossover. So I was engaged in it.

Speaker 2 But, you know, I know it sounds ridiculous, but I think it was simpler times. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, so I don't think there was a lot of thought process. You just went on and you were yourself, authentically yourself.

Speaker 2 And you got to remember, all of us knew each other so well that, and they were all in it together.

Speaker 2 We both knew each other so well, but we also knew that, you know, We made a commitment and we come from an era that if we sign our name to something or commit to a job, we do a great job.

Speaker 2 I think my generation is very competitive, very like has to succeed at everything they do and do your best and don't let anyone down.

Speaker 2 So you just went in there and you just were kind of your authentic self. And I don't, I think the real question is, wasn't what did I think of it? It's what did I think after the fact.

Speaker 2 That's the real question.

Speaker 1 Well, that's what I, I, I was curious about that. So, and it does seem like there's multiple afters.
So there's filming, right? Yes. And there's what you feel about it after you've filmed it.

Speaker 2 Well, I didn't know. I was like, because I had no idea.
I didn't even know what editing meant.

Speaker 2 I kind of, in this weird way, even though we were filming six, 10, 12 hours a day, I just thought it all went on there and they could see everything. And I'm sure I was just hoping for the best.

Speaker 2 And that was, you know, and also, too, you have to remember, it was soon after that. post thing of Richard passing and Hannah going off to college.
So I was sort of like a toothpick in the ocean.

Speaker 2 I was sort of like, didn't, I had lost all the titles that sort of I kind of cherished, you know.

Speaker 2 And I I was like what am I doing now and so for me it was a great way to occupy myself and it was also very therapeutic right to be with all my girlfriends six days a week and have purpose again also too I think I what I realized very am I talking too much no you can't

Speaker 1 it's we got a lot of time to fill between the mattress

Speaker 2 I think what it was for me I think the biggest revelation was for so many years you know I'd been you know

Speaker 2 Hannah's mom, you know, Mrs. Lynch, you know, my first husband's wife, Mrs.
Medley, like these were these, these,

Speaker 2 you know, kind of labels that I put on myself or, or jobs that I loved. Listen, I loved doing it.
I would do it all over again. I have no shame and, and, and that.

Speaker 2 And was very committed to that in all ways, that it was really interesting to all of a sudden just be Dorinda.

Speaker 2 That's it. For the first time, people just were falling in love with Dorinda, you know, and I found that really interesting.
And I really didn't take that on until it came out.

Speaker 2 And it was funny, when it first came out, I'll never forget it. They had done a, back then, we used to, we used to have to be super secretive.

Speaker 2 So no one knew you were on. Now they post it as soon as they're doing like their first scene.
It's posted everywhere. And your big come out was you got an open page on the New York Post of spread.

Speaker 2 So that came out and I was like, oh my God, I'm famous.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 2 look at how glamorous I am, right? Because Because I've never seen myself in that way, right?

Speaker 2 And I remember the next morning, I went to my favorite, I would walk, come out of my building across the street was this fruit guy that I'd do two things.

Speaker 2 I'd get a coffee and then get a piece of fruit and go upstairs. And I would just have on like a sweatshirt and my leggings or pajama bodies.
And it was like seven in the morning.

Speaker 2 And this person turned to me and said, oh, my God, are you Duridna Medley? And I was like, yes, now where have we met? You know what I mean? And I realized, uh-oh, the veil has been lifted.

Speaker 2 It'll never be the same again.

Speaker 1 And so, but so there feels like there's two experiences of watching it. One is seeing the edit and seeing yourself.
Yeah. And then the other is seeing what you couldn't see, what people were saying.

Speaker 1 And I'm wondering if that affected how you thought about being on the show going forward.

Speaker 2 I don't know if it affected me, but it was a learning curve because you realize

Speaker 2 there's an art. It is a bit of an art of war.
Like there's some people that are very clever at just being one way when you're filming, and then they use the confessionals to destroy you, right?

Speaker 2 So I'm like, oh, I can actually do that. Like that, you know, so you start to, like anything, it's a learning curve.
It's a strategy. It's a, and some people were brilliant at it.

Speaker 2 Like Bethany Frankl was brilliant at her confessionals.

Speaker 1 For sure.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? There's nothing like a Bethany Frankl confessional.

Speaker 1 Well, that was, I mean, that seems also jarring for the other.

Speaker 1 women on the show, which is they would see the confessionals from Bethany and be like, well, holy shit, she ripped me to pieces. So there's a quote that you have in your book

Speaker 1 about the show being chess in high heels that you have to march in like a military general. But at the same time, on the show, you're saying, this is me, this is who I am.

Speaker 1 And that doesn't feel like those can both be true.

Speaker 2 Of course they do.

Speaker 2 I mean, I think they're both true because I think the difference is, I think I march into all my life like a sarcop with heels on with a sergeant judge. I mean, I'm barely ever playing checkers.

Speaker 2 I'm kind of in life always playing chess, you know. But I think it gets exacerbated a bit when you have the cameras on and you're filming 12 hours a day.
So you really have to be

Speaker 2 prepared for what's, and it's coming, like it or not. You know, you have to be prepared.

Speaker 2 And after the first season, you have to decide if you have the mentality, the stamina, the wherewithal to take that on. But it's a shock, right? It's a shock.

Speaker 1 Right. It's a competitive friendship.
Like you said, you know, you're attacking perpetually and reevaluating your situation and how to win. What is winning?

Speaker 2 What is winning? Winning is probably twofold. It's walking around, walking away from it, even after the show

Speaker 2 airs. And even if you don't get the response from the audience, you like having the conviction to know, I believe in that.
And next season, I'm going to show you and I'm going to build on this.

Speaker 2 It's a buildable thing. And winning is also just allowing the audience to walk through that process with you.

Speaker 2 Listen, I always find it very interesting that people go in this, especially now when they're so knowledgeable and stuff, you sign the dotted line. They're pretty clear about what you're doing.

Speaker 2 And if you don't want to take the good, the bad, and the ugly, which is what being authentic is,

Speaker 2 and you just want it to be, you know, I always say portraits can't be participants. So if you want to be a portrait, then stay on Instagram, be an influencer, do a TikTok.

Speaker 2 But this is going to, you know, it's like peeling an onion. And the longer you're on the show, the more the onion is peeled.

Speaker 2 And that ultimately is a good thing because you hand it over to the audience and they take from it all these things and they decide, I like this person.

Speaker 2 Yeah, microlys are things I don't really enjoy about her, but I've done that before. But macroly, I get her and I will choose to engage in her and have a love affair with this character.

Speaker 1 Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up.
Love It or Leave It is brought to you by Cowboy Colostrum.

Speaker 1 If you're like most people who are looking for wellness supplements, you're probably unsure where to start, what your body needs, or what you should take to meet those needs.

Speaker 1 Cowboy Colostrum takes the guesswork out of wellness. If you don't know what colostrum is, it's the first milk mammals produce after giving birth.
It's not like regular milk.

Speaker 1 It's, get this, thicker, richer, and packed with hundreds of bioactive ingredients that help support immunity, gut health, hair, skin, nails, and athletic performance.

Speaker 1 This makes it especially helpful during seasonal transitions when our immune systems tend to be put to the test. Think of it as nature's original multivitamin designed by biology, not a lab.

Speaker 1 You mix one scoop of the powder and stir it into coffee, milk, smoothies, you name it. It comes in amazing flavors like vanilla, chocolate, strawberry, made with real freeze-dried berries.

Speaker 1 The strawberry one it is. Unlike other colostrum brands, cowboy colostrum is never diluted, never spray-dried, and always sourced from grass-fed cows on regenerative U.S.
farms.

Speaker 1 No fillers, no junk, just the good stuff. It's hormone-free, allergen-free, grass-fed, and third-party tested.
You know, people notice the gut health benefits right away.

Speaker 1 There's less bloating, people have better digestion, they feel more, you know, regular. But

Speaker 1 everybody's talking about colostrum. You know, get these little baby cows out of there.
It's cowboy's turn to feed.

Speaker 1 For limited time, our listeners get 25% off their entire order. Just head to cowboycolostrum.com and use code LOVEIT at checkout.
That's 25% off when you use code LOVEIT at cowboycolostrum.com.

Speaker 1 After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and and tell them our show sent you.

Speaker 1 The 2026 Chevy Equinox is more than an SUV. It's your Sunday tailgate and your parking lot snack bar.
Your lucky jersey, your chairs, and your big cooler fit perfectly in your even bigger cargo space.

Speaker 1 And when it's go time, your 11.3-inch diagonal touchscreen's got the playbook, the playlist, and the tech to stay a step ahead. It's more than an SUV.
It's your Equinox.

Speaker 1 Chevrolet, together let's drive.

Speaker 1 Are there moments where you, you know, you've talked about

Speaker 1 the show meeting? Yeah, there are moments where you've been reflective. You said the show can make you protective and the show can make you reflective.

Speaker 1 Are there moments that from the earlier seasons where a similar moment could have happened later, but you caught yourself? That, oh, you're about to do that thing that you hated seeing yourself do.

Speaker 1 You know, know,

Speaker 2 honestly, probably no.

Speaker 2 Probably no. I don't, because I don't,

Speaker 2 I think when you're in it and you're, and the days are so long and you're so engaged that A, you forget about the cameras and B,

Speaker 2 you just.

Speaker 2 You're who you are. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And in a weird way, the screw-ups become the great memes, you know, and you reconciling them or bringing them around and having to go through the process of trying, attempting to make both your colleagues and your audience to understand it is kind of where the rub is, but also where the growth happens.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there's,

Speaker 1 well, part of it is knowing yourself, but you have to trust yourself, but you also have to trust the show a little bit.

Speaker 2 Yes, of course. The whole thing, you know, you got to remember this show, yeah, you have these incredible characters, but there's layers and layers of people.

Speaker 2 Your cameramen, your sound people, your editors, your production company, Bravo, NBC.

Speaker 2 And I will say that throughout the years when I was on, they're in constant communication with you and they do carry you through the process.

Speaker 2 So, you know, you're sort of dealing with your production company first, which is Shed and Smaller. They do their thing.

Speaker 2 Then they give it to Bravo. So then Bravo kind of takes you over and does through the PR.
Then it goes to NBC, which is sort of like the big daddy, right?

Speaker 2 At that point, you're either cooked or you're whatever, right?

Speaker 2 So you have to lean into it. But you never feel like, even when you're going through it, you never feel,

Speaker 2 I can only speak from my own experience, but I never feel it, I never felt abandoned. I felt like, oops, well, that probably wasn't such a great season.
Hopefully I'll do better next year.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? Or, oh my God, that's a great season.

Speaker 2 But there always was something that came out of it that I think, I always say, and I still think it applies today, when someone new comes on, at the end of the season, you should be able to take six things from them.

Speaker 2 What are the six things you learned about this character that is going to create a love affair? It's like when you first go on dates.

Speaker 2 Oh, I really like his family or I like the fact that he does this or his hobbies. And I think if you can do, like for me, I was, you know, I had Bluestone Manor.
I lost my husband.

Speaker 2 I was friends with these girls. I like to make it nice.
I love holidays.

Speaker 2 You know, just all these kind of things that people are like. I'm a great, I think of myself as a good mother.

Speaker 2 I'm ballsy. I tell it like it is.
I, I, you know, you don't want to pull shit on me, you know, because I'm going to call you out every time.

Speaker 2 So all of a sudden, there's people that are like, okay, I can get my hands around this girl. And I want to see how she's going to grow on the show.
That's so fun.

Speaker 1 That's so interesting because I understand how that would be your list of six. But when I think of you on the show, to me, it's two things.
It is one, that you're incredibly vulnerable.

Speaker 1 That you're actually that, and that you are open. You know, you go on this trip with Carol.

Speaker 1 You're clearly on this show at a period of transition, a difficult period of transition in your life. And people forget that.

Speaker 2 You got to remember, I was only like two years out. I don't even know if it was from, you know, going through that.

Speaker 2 But that was what a beautiful gift that was, not only for me, but for a lot of people that, you know, were young.

Speaker 2 I always, you know, I think about that time and, you know, people would call me a widow. And I'm like, I'm too young to be a widow.
So I was misplaced there. Do you think about a widow as some old?

Speaker 2 I remember this woman at Elios one night was talking to me. She goes, Oh, are you here with your husband? I said, Oh, no, I'm a widow.
She goes, Oh, no, you're not a widow. I'm a widow.

Speaker 2 I'm 88 years old. You're something else, just unfortunate, but not a widow.

Speaker 2 You're very upreast side. I was like, Well, thanks a lot.
It doesn't really make it better. But,

Speaker 2 you know, I think to have someone to discuss that with, and then the amount of people that reached out and like really just like found peace in it and didn't feel alone.

Speaker 2 Because as we know, there's certain things, divorce can be one of them, death can be another. Things you can feel isolated and not shameful, but you don't know how to connect.

Speaker 2 And it was a great way to connect on a level that you could share this kind of thing that was going through. It was a teaching moment as far as I'm concerned.

Speaker 1 But with, you know, I would write a lot of jokes for, you know, I wrote jokes for politicians. And what we would find is is

Speaker 1 the more honest you are about your own flaws, joking about yourself, the harder you can be on somebody else.

Speaker 2 I don't know if that's true.

Speaker 1 Well, here's what I mean by it. I mean that what it gives you the space to go harder on other people whilst people still like you're the one of the meanest people that I love.

Speaker 2 Right. You are you think I'm mean?

Speaker 1 Oh, there are moments. There are moments in this show where you also have to be honest.

Speaker 2 I disagree with you.

Speaker 1 No, I'm honest.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I'm honest and I may call it out, but I don't know if I'd call it mean.
And usually if you notice and you go back,

Speaker 2 it's always in response

Speaker 2 to something. I always say in life, I'll never shake your hand first, but I'll shake it back hard.

Speaker 1 Well, absolutely. No, not saying it has to come back.

Speaker 2 That's not mean. That's like we got to put a stop to this.

Speaker 1 Let's say tough.

Speaker 2 Tough. That's a better word.

Speaker 1 Extremely tough. Extremely tough.

Speaker 2 Because means labeling.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well,

Speaker 1 harsh. There have been moments of.

Speaker 2 And probably well deserved.

Speaker 1 And never for absolute, no one's saying otherwise. No one's saying otherwise.
Well, there's a line you can say.

Speaker 2 And I think that's the class. And you're doing a little housewifery because that's the way to

Speaker 2 corner you or put you in a box. It's not because you can't ever micromanage a situation.
You got to look at the macro and understand: do I shut the shit down? Yeah. And I do that in my own life.

Speaker 2 It just happened a couple of days ago. I was like, now we're done.

Speaker 2 I've been lenient. I've been good.
But that's a very Sagittarian trait. Exactly.
You know, when you're good, you're great. When you're bad, you're terrible.

Speaker 2 You know, I will be a sleeping tiger, but you pull my tail one time, I'll let it go.

Speaker 1 Well, you

Speaker 2 pat me on the back, I'm great. You start to touch my mouth, well, then you're going to get a bite, aren't you?

Speaker 1 I mean, honestly, people like it. People like it.
But yeah, well, you said, there's one point in it, you said, treat me like a dog, I'll bark. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So the reason I bring that up is there's no show like Real Housewives with men. It just doesn't exist.

Speaker 1 I wonder why you think that is.

Speaker 1 Like, what is it about women in a show like this that there's a, I think there's goods and there's good and bad too. I think part of it is this like, I can't, it's inconceivable for a men to use.

Speaker 2 I've thought about that

Speaker 2 because you're absolutely right. I've thought about that.
I don't know if it's just historically we tend to gather together.

Speaker 2 Like I come from a very Italian Polish family, but mainly Italian because my mom's Italian. So of course you always lean to, or in our family, it was everything was Italian, Italian.

Speaker 2 And whenever there was a room of aunties and uncles and grandmas and cousins and all the women in the kitchen, it was an, you know, Christmas morning would start off great, but by two, someone was fighting.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? They were this and you did that.

Speaker 2 And then at the end of the night, they all kissed each other goodbye and off they went. And I think there's something about women that are together and these, we're just very,

Speaker 2 you don't see, I don't anyway, you know, men just gathering. We love to gather.
We like, I mean, listen, I always say all you got to do to sell something on Instagram is say girls' weekend.

Speaker 2 They'll stampede to it. Like, we just love girls' weekend.
So, girls retreat. And everybody,

Speaker 2 that's who we are. We like to gather in big groups and just, you know, gossip and banter and tell each other off and get back together.
And then love each other.

Speaker 2 Then always, there always ends with a cry. We love a good cry, you know, at the end of the weekend.
So I think it's just historically how we kind of roll. And then that obviously gets, you know,

Speaker 2 it gets shown on TV. And you got to remember, some of those days we're filming, they're long.
You may see it in an eight-minute clip, but that may be hours.

Speaker 2 And sometimes you start at 8.30 in the morning on those girls' trips. You don't go to bed till midnight.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it seems exhausting. I was watching it.

Speaker 2 But it's fun.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 you kept going back for more. Are you still going back for more?

Speaker 2 Well, no, I'm not. I don't know.
What show are you talking about? I don't know. Well, you've been on.

Speaker 1 You've been, well, all right. Yeah,

Speaker 1 fair enough. Fair enough.

Speaker 1 What show?

Speaker 2 Did I miss something?

Speaker 1 No, did I miss anything? Did I miss anything?

Speaker 1 But it also sometimes feels like alcohol is like the eighth housewife on the trip.

Speaker 2 Of course.

Speaker 1 And that like shows up.

Speaker 2 Alcohol is the eighth.

Speaker 2 This is what I love, is when people start to question things. What party, have you been to a bachelorette party? Have you been to a bachelor's party?

Speaker 1 Have a bachelor's party I've been to.

Speaker 2 Are they usually sober? Have you been to any picnic where it's usually sobered? Have you been to a wedding? Alcohol is usually involved in most of our lives.

Speaker 2 So I don't think you, I think it's very easy to corner it to these things because, but of course, I mean, that's just a given. And I think they've lessened that.
You know, we had free reign.

Speaker 2 You know, like I said, it was a bit, for me anyway, and I'm just speaking, I have to use all those words, like allegedly. I mean,

Speaker 2 I've covered myself now, right? Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly.

Speaker 2 You know, it was much more of, I think, the Wild West because we didn't worry so much about everything.

Speaker 2 Now, I would be very frightened to be on reality TV like that because, God, we've gone through so so much you know in the last five or six years everything has changed the rules and the regulations what you say what you don't do it's very monitored that I actually think it'd be much harder to be on reality TV full-time now because you can get in big trouble you think because of the reaction because of the people paying attention yeah I just think the stakes are much higher now I never thought about it Is that something sounds so weird?

Speaker 2 I never thought about it. I never worried about it.
Of course, I was like, oh, that was a bad episode, but I didn't really walk around with...

Speaker 2 also too, I think the social media game is so intense now. And a lot of the bloggers and stuff, like they're really running.
They're really running the game. They know more than we know.

Speaker 2 So it was a much more of like we'd be filming and it was a big mystery until it came out. And

Speaker 2 there wasn't that voracious

Speaker 2 studying and

Speaker 2 just micromanaging everything and pulling out every word and talking about this and lawsuits. and like it's scary now.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's so there's something about like I know that that I never once walked away from the show thinking I'm gonna get sued or I said something wrong that's gonna get me in big trouble.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean I know that when I've had nights because I agree you know alcohol is part of my best and worst nights.
Of course for all of us.

Speaker 2 And you'd be silly and ridiculous not to admit that.

Speaker 1 Right, of course.

Speaker 2 You know, we're only human and that's part of the authentic people.

Speaker 2 And that's one thing that you can call out in reality is when you know someone's playing one game on the show, and then the minute the cameras are off, they're doing it all.

Speaker 2 And you're like, wait a second.

Speaker 1 And that must drive you crazy.

Speaker 2 Of course. And then that bleeds into

Speaker 2 whatever else because you're like, what? You know, so, you know, there's a lot of stuff you have to take in. Yeah.

Speaker 1 One time I drank too much and called on Joe Biden to withdraw.

Speaker 2 I was thinking about even the Love Hotel that was on now. And I,

Speaker 2 when that, who's the host's names again, Joel, whatever.

Speaker 2 yeah you know that when I was reading those Instagrams I'm like uh-oh someone was drinking too much because

Speaker 1 he must have I just thought to myself because we've all done that Instagram or that late night I mean I I remember once I texted something late night and I woke up next morning I was praying at 630 that I didn't write it I'm like it was a dream it was a dream I was like oh my god well yeah well you have those moments that's the thing that I what I was feeling when I whenever I see which is you have those moments in life where you've you you know and by the way sometimes it's just a truth you weren't ready to share yet or maybe you don't always say it in the most articulate way but it's many times parts coming out uh but it's very different when it's also going to be on television in a few months or is it not who cares who cares who cares okay

Speaker 2 so sally in iowa doesn't like me for a couple weeks i'll win her back well you know what i mean all right and you do win her back and it doesn't change my life i get up and i do the same things and everything's the same and and i never really was i think also too that's different now is it's a much more branded thing.

Speaker 2 Like everybody was selling something or branding something or really curating their image. I mean, half the time you saw me and we were in our bed.
We didn't even brush our hair.

Speaker 2 Like we just wasn't that curated. Well, I remember.
I wouldn't even have the wardrobe or the makeup people. I'm not going to say who, but I was in NBC about.
I don't know, a year ago.

Speaker 2 And I was doing something for Bravo Insider or something. And in walked one of the housewives that was a new housewife.

Speaker 2 and they had a whole team with them. I never, I still, I just have Ryan here.
And that's like, I never had a team. I never had people.

Speaker 2 Like, it was just, if we were going to do a press tour, I would be like, Luanne, you want to share a car?

Speaker 2 You know, and then

Speaker 2 there were crazy conversations. Like,

Speaker 2 I was laughing with Ramona the other day. I said, remember this time? And literally, we didn't, there was no room to complain or say we're not doing it.
There was, there's a lot of that now, too.

Speaker 2 Like, we just got our schedules and we were like, okay. I remember where we gathered at MBC.
This is a true story. And we were laughing about it the other day.

Speaker 2 And they said, okay, you know, Bethany and Carol, they're going to Good Morning America. We're like, oh, that's not fair.
Okay, whatever. What's my assignment? Okay.

Speaker 2 And then they do Luann and Sonia, you're going to something else. You're going to HM to be on the jumbotron.
I'm like, well, that's a good one, too. Why didn't I get that one, right?

Speaker 2 So it's left with Ramona. So Ramon was like, well, okay, what are we doing?

Speaker 2 They said, oh, you're going down to Times Square, and we're going to stick you on the jumbotron and you're going to say, one of you is going to say, and the premiere of Real Housewives in New York City and the other person is going to bite into a hot dog

Speaker 1 in front of a hot dog stand.

Speaker 1 This is true.

Speaker 1 You probably can still pull it up.

Speaker 2 And everyone's like, well,

Speaker 2 I mean, I don't eat hot dogs. So like, I'll do that.
And you're going to, I'm like, well, okay, I'll eat a hot dog.

Speaker 2 But I say, they're like, we won't put a lot of ketchup on it, so it won't spill on your thing.

Speaker 1 I'm like, oh, well, you can put ketchup on it. So of course,

Speaker 2 and I'm thinking that's how that went down. They drove us down.
I'm like, okay, tell me when to buy into the last go. We go in the jumbo drama.

Speaker 2 And Ramona goes, and tonight, the premiere, a real house race, a DRC, sees it whatever. And I go,

Speaker 1 right?

Speaker 2 And that was it. No discussion, no rehearsal.
Check, we're next.

Speaker 1 You're just like a team player. You're just into it.
Well, we all were. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And we all were excited for press days. There was really no team, no nothing.
Ramona was always worried about where we were going to have lunch. You know,

Speaker 2 know, it was just sort of like another day to be all together.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Also, those trips seem so grueling, but it seems like for Ramona, it was like just a vacation.

Speaker 2 Oh, Ramona thought they were real vacations. She would call me up and be like, oh my God, are you back for the holiday? I'm like,

Speaker 2 what holiday? Like, no, no, she really, really, but Ramona was remarkable because by the time we got to

Speaker 2 These, I'm thinking about it like, okay, we were filming.

Speaker 2 By the time we got to any place, place, Ramona would have every restaurant, every restaurant owner, every nightclub, every contact that she like owned, owned it. Like, she's remarkable like that.

Speaker 2 And there wasn't a time that we would stop filming that she then wouldn't go out.

Speaker 1 It's so that's amazing.

Speaker 2 I was like, oh my God, it's 11:30. We've been filming since day.
I'm going to go out. I was talking to Joe, and he's very excited about us coming.
So I'm like, all right.

Speaker 2 So that's what people don't realize. When the cameras went off, we were still sort of all together.
I think there was one time

Speaker 2 when you, Bethany, I think, or someone

Speaker 2 released the tapes of us after the cameras went off and it was Halloween and we were on the pool table and people were like, now why, why aren't we part of that?

Speaker 2 Because we really did stay awake with each other.

Speaker 2 You know what I was like? I think it's because we come from that college era where we all hung out and sororities and stuff. For us, it was like we were back on spring break again.

Speaker 2 And we were making money.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 And being loved generally.

Speaker 1 generally the uh it seemed like the the this we were just ourselves like it seemed like it would bug you when say like it's the morning you've all just woken up and like tinsley walks in full glam and you're like how are you already so made up well tinsley went to sleep with full glam like i think she just would like she would keep her eyelashes on and everything tinsley was always perfect

Speaker 2 yeah well the uh that's her era but i think that's uh but she would she would go to sleep with her eyelashes and stuff and she was much more even in her when you see her filming she was always very well put together.

Speaker 2 We were put together well, but you know, we had, we, it wasn't a huge concern. Like, if we weren't cast partying it or stuff, you kind of came into our lives and saw what we really

Speaker 1 wore. Right.
Well, it just seems like you were less concerned, which is what made it good TV. We weren't concerned.

Speaker 1 Well, because it was, there's, I think that, like, one, one way in which what's happened in reality TV has sort of come over to politics is,

Speaker 1 and Trump says this kind of thing all the time, which is:

Speaker 1 it's great to be loved.

Speaker 1 It's fine to be hated. The only thing you can't be is boring.

Speaker 2 I agree.

Speaker 1 And, you know, we talked.

Speaker 2 I can't believe I'm agreeing with that, but okay. I know.
That's going to be the first time I agree.

Speaker 1 Hopefully it was the last. But

Speaker 1 we talked to Sarah McBride, who is a congressperson from Delaware, and she said, Some of my colleagues are treating me the way they treat me because they want attention.

Speaker 1 They want to employ the strategies of Bravo TV to get attention in a body of 435 people. And the way to do that is to pick a fight with someone and throw wine in their face.

Speaker 2 And she might be correct. Well, with the current day we live in, she just might be correct.
And we're seeing it happen over and over again.

Speaker 2 And sadly, I don't like it, but there is effectiveness in that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, like that must be something you feel when you watch politics now.

Speaker 2 100%.

Speaker 1 You feel like deja vu. Like, oh, wow, that's a move I saw Ramona pull.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I think, you know, I think all things in life are kind of political. Marriages can be political.
Reality TV can be political.

Speaker 2 I mean, there's a lot of things in life where people can apply strategy. And I don't think this is any different, right?

Speaker 2 And for us to think that politics, I mean, I think if anything, in the current age we're living, like it or not, and, you know, whatever your opinion is, you do what you want.

Speaker 2 But it is a learning curve that it wasn't all that it seems. Like, it is a lot of

Speaker 2 movement and jiggering and

Speaker 2 game playing and stuff. Or at least that's been my experience watching it because maybe because I grew up in an era where the six o'clock news was your only knowledge.

Speaker 2 And now you see that there's a lot of other stuff that goes on that is unfortunately or fortunately very reality TV-like.

Speaker 1 Well, because part of it's about attention.

Speaker 1 It's about getting attention. And Trump figured that out.
People like Marjorie Taylor Greene have figured that out.

Speaker 2 And you can't take your eyes off it, for good or for bad. You're like, what? You know, so reaction is reaction.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 No one survives on reality TV

Speaker 1 if they're dull. Right.

Speaker 2 Well, and also. Dull is the kiss of death.

Speaker 1 And the other part of it, too, and I think about watching.

Speaker 2 No, two things, not to interrupt you. You can't be dull and you can't be inauthentic.

Speaker 2 And you can't lie. Because if you lie, boy, one of us will figure it out.
Well, that's where the grim keepers when it comes to that.

Speaker 1 Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up.
Love It or Leave It brought to you by Honey Love. The holidays are approaching.

Speaker 1 It's the time of year where we get decked out in our holiday best for parties and family gatherings. Ladies.

Speaker 1 You know that donning those holiday fits can also mean putting up with uncomfortable shapewear, but not with Honey Love.

Speaker 1 We have several members of the crooked team who can attest to the all-day comfort of Honey Love. The ladies of Asteria are huge fans.
Holiday outfits start with the right foundation.

Speaker 1 Honey Love bras and shapewear give you comfort and confidence, whether you're in sparkles at a holiday party or in cozy sweaters with family.

Speaker 1 Don't spend the season tugging at uncomfortable bras or shapewear that rolls down. Take it from this guy.
Yeah, take it from me. Honey Love moves so you can enjoy the moment.

Speaker 1 Great for travel days too. Wireless support that feels light as a cloud but still holds everything in place.
You got to have everything right where it's supposed to be, especially on an airplane.

Speaker 1 Perfect for those long holiday flights or road trips. Honey Love is is an independent female-founded brand.

Speaker 1 All Honey Love products are intelligently designed by women who actually wear them, including founder Betsy, who is highly involved in the development of each product.

Speaker 1 Treat yourself or someone you love to Honey Love this holiday season. And right now, you can save 20% off at honeylove.com/slash love it.

Speaker 1 Just use our exclusive link, honeylove.com/slash L-O-V-E-T-T, to grab your discount. After you order, they'll ask where you heard about Honey Love.

Speaker 1 So please support our show and let them know we sent you. Celebrate the season feeling confident and comfortable with Honey Love.

Speaker 4 Did you know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better clean and cold water? Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it, even in cold.

Speaker 1 Butter? Yep.

Speaker 4 Chocolate ice cream? Sure thing. Barbecue sauce? Tide's got you covered.
You don't need to use warm water. Additionally, Tide pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new coldzyme technology.

Speaker 4 Just remember, if it's gotta be clean, it's gotta be tide.

Speaker 1 Just thinking about the people that have come and gone, some have been dull, but some of the people are trying to put on a show. That's right.

Speaker 1 They're trying to, they have an idea of who they want to be on the show. And it's interesting, both in reality TV and modern politics, that doesn't fly.
Like the truth will out.

Speaker 2 Even if it takes a while.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, I always, someone said to me a while ago, well, she's, her first season's great.

Speaker 2 She's going to be a great reality star I said oh the first season's nothing that is just when you're slowly every they they you know you're vetted to be the new one and there's a mad love affair that happens the second season is where the tire hits the the tar because that's when they either produce and start peeling that onion or the audience starts to get bored of it because the imperfections will be as an interesting as interesting to the audience as the perfections.

Speaker 2 Well, also. And that's the difficult part.
That's the rub.

Speaker 1 And you've already, you've, there's, I think, I imagine going through watching yourself, seeing the talking heads, seeing the online reaction, seeing the edit, and then doing it again and not, and not trying to kind of be risk-averse must be very difficult.

Speaker 2 Not trying to be risk-averse or, you know.

Speaker 1 Being willing to do what you're doing.

Speaker 2 You know what's so interesting about this? You're overthinking how much we thought about it.

Speaker 2 That's the problem why it's difficult to answer this because you're applying things that we just, we would literally end filming and go back to our normal lives and not really think about it until they were like, you start press next week.

Speaker 2 And then you went through that, then we would put our work hats on again and go through the process and mourn it, be horrified, be happy, be thrilled. I say it's like,

Speaker 2 what would it, it's like belonging to the NFL. Okay.
You get on the field, you beat each other to the pulp, you do great passes, you do bad passes. You're frustrated.
You're happy. You're high-fiving.

Speaker 2 You're like, what the F? And then you get off and that night you're having dinner, patting each other and saying, high-five. It's like spring training is in six months.

Speaker 1 So let's have some fun until spring training.

Speaker 2 It's a little bit like that. And I think that's what makes a great reality star.

Speaker 2 You have to be able to be strong enough to, well, I think the relationships have to be strong enough to cycle through it and understand what you're doing. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because if you don't, it'll kill you internally. And you see that happening to people.
They just can't not take it on. And they eat it, they drink it, they sleep.

Speaker 2 I remember Hannah said to me one day after I'd finished filming and we were at Burgdoor shopping, and someone said,

Speaker 2 Oh my God, it's Dorinda Method. She goes, No, we're not doing that Dorinda Medley thing from the housewives, right? We're back to normal again for a couple months, right? You promised me, mom?

Speaker 2 And I was like, Yes, I am. Yeah, because I don't want to do that now.
You promised it doesn't start again until September. I said, okay.
So we would, we're very good.

Speaker 2 And that's an art form in itself to transition back and be able to wake up the next morning and be like, well, I guess there's not a car service waiting for me. And back to reality.

Speaker 2 I got to go wash my dishes and unload the dishwasher. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, I bet you may not have overthought it.
I overthink everything for the record, but I mentioned people that have struggled. on these shows have been doing some overthinking.

Speaker 2 And also, too, that stakes are much higher now. I mean, we're seeing people go to jail.
We're seeing people do this, all these things.

Speaker 2 But again,

Speaker 2 I go back to this. It's not that I don't have empathy or sympathy.
It's that you kind of sign the contract.

Speaker 2 So I remember someone said to me right before I started Housewives, one of the final things he said, they said, now remember, if you're going to do this,

Speaker 2 do you have any skeletons in your closet? Because all your skeletons will come out eventually. So you got to be prepared for that.

Speaker 2 And I remember thinking about that thinking, What would be the most embarrassing thing that could come out about me? And I was like, I think I'm good. I will own up to all of them.
And I pay my taxes.

Speaker 2 So I think we're going to be okay. Yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 You know, I pay my car.

Speaker 1 I pay my taxes.

Speaker 2 And I haven't been in a sex scandal or I've never sent a dirty video. So I think we're okay.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 if let's say Pete Buttigieg or another Democratic candidate told you he's about to shoot the Real Housewives of D.C.

Speaker 1 and he's going to be joining the cast with Donald Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene and JD Vance and Marco Rubio and you're trying to advise this person.

Speaker 1 You're their kind of confidant. They're about to go into battle in high heels.
Not Pete in high heels, but you know.

Speaker 1 What's your, how would you, if you were thinking about politics as a reality show, what would be your advice for how to kind of go into taping and win?

Speaker 2 That one's tough because that would be a tough one because you'd have to,

Speaker 2 I think someone like him would have to rethink his whole strategy. I mean, that is a sink or swim.
That is a swim.

Speaker 2 It's either, you know, beat them or join them at that point, depending if you want to stay.

Speaker 1 That's the problem.

Speaker 2 Yeah, if you want to stay on TV, I think you're going to have to, or maybe

Speaker 2 I would say probably pretend like you're joining them and then throw in the axe at the end.

Speaker 2 Collect information. Create an environment where they get very comfortable with you and they're exposing too much, but at the same time, be the skull collector.

Speaker 2 And then at the end in the reunion, just like slam that shit.

Speaker 1 We need an insider.

Speaker 1 We need somebody to get inside. You know, I went back and looked at.

Speaker 2 But that would be the, yeah, he probably wouldn't make it second season because.

Speaker 1 But what would we do?

Speaker 2 And probably, to be honest with you, J.D. Vans and those people would be great reality stars.
I'd watch it.

Speaker 1 Well, that's the problem. That's the problem.
Well, who do you see out there that would be a good Democratic reality star?

Speaker 1 Who's the person that's built for this moment to you that you think, oh, wow, that's a person who'd be a great housewife. See, this is the problem.
Kamala Harris. Kamala Harris, Kamala Harris.

Speaker 1 That's a good one. She could do it.

Speaker 2 I I think she's a character, and I think she's fun. And I wish we saw more one, more of that, because she's actually brilliantly smart.

Speaker 2 Number one, she was a prosecutor for a year, so you can imagine the skills that she has. I mean, you need those good prosecution skills when you're executing through housewives.

Speaker 2 And she has a quiet greatness about her that would create both mystery and fear.

Speaker 1 Do you think that she

Speaker 1 has at times made a mistake that housewives have made about trying to

Speaker 1 get me in trouble

Speaker 2 gosh

Speaker 1 just us the uh yeah exactly that's how it all begins that's how it all begins but no but that like there's a that maybe she was a little bit uh held back a little bit afraid to be her full self and people sense the woman had no time right i mean that was just

Speaker 2 i just thought the whole thing was you know she just had no time I

Speaker 2 what did we have six months you know

Speaker 2 three months three months I mean I think considering the time she had that was a very difficult thing to do.

Speaker 2 Even coming into it, probably getting that call, she was like, oh my God, there wasn't a lot of preparation for that.

Speaker 2 And let's face it, those people are usually groomed for what, two or three years beforehand.

Speaker 2 So that alone

Speaker 2 was a feat to watch.

Speaker 1 You know, I went back and looked.

Speaker 2 And I don't want to be political, but, you know, yeah.

Speaker 1 I went back and looked. Or do I? Dude, be political.

Speaker 1 I went back and looked and I found, because I was Hillary Clinton's speechwriter. Oh, my God.
So was my husband.

Speaker 2 With Madeline Albright in those early days.

Speaker 1 Those are years before me.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, of course. Well, I know that.

Speaker 2 We would be 72 now. I'm not saying you're the...

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 I went back. That's impressive.

Speaker 1 I was very overwhelmed and I was not qualified. That's a hard job.
It was a really hard job.

Speaker 1 And I developed a kind of twitch in my nose for a while because I was 23, 20, I was 23, 22 when I got the job. Oh, my God.
I was completely in over my head.

Speaker 1 But I went back and pulled her old calendars. And there it was in 2006, fundraiser Hillary Clinton, Richard and Dorinda medling.
Yes. And so you did a fundraiser.

Speaker 2 At my townhouse.

Speaker 1 At your townhouse, yeah, on the Upper East Side.

Speaker 2 Well, they were very close. And so was when Madeline Albright was very good friends.

Speaker 2 You know, but even that's so interesting is that back then when Richard was involved with the DNA and the Council of Formulation and all the Richard Haas and all of them, all of them kind of leads rights.

Speaker 2 It was much more of a bipartisan thing.

Speaker 2 Although you were loyal to your parties and worked very hard for your parties, Like you would go to the Council of Formulations and the bipartisan thing is really such an incredible think tank.

Speaker 2 There wasn't that, you know, sort of, yo, you're either a Republican or Democrat. Now, they were much more open about speaking and learning from each other than it is now.

Speaker 2 And I kind of miss that, right? No, it is.

Speaker 1 Well, you feel that in the show, right? Because

Speaker 1 there was something about 2016.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. I can't believe you found that in the calendar.
Dennis,

Speaker 2 Dennis, what's his name? Yeah, Dennis Chang. Dennis Chang raised that.

Speaker 1 Of course.

Speaker 2 Isn't that so weird that we remember these things?

Speaker 1 Absolutely. But

Speaker 1 you're right that politics feels

Speaker 1 more fraught in part, I think, because

Speaker 1 it's separated, but also because Republicans have got become,

Speaker 1 the Trump Republicans have become so extreme that it starts to intrude on real housewives.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 it starts to intrude on creativity because people, you're either one or the other.

Speaker 2 And part of those kind of bipartisan think tanks, like the council or whatever, was an ability to, I remember Richard used to have big, huge talks with Trump you know, Jr.

Speaker 2 and stuff, not Trump, Bush Jr.

Speaker 2 And like they'd come over and he just found him, even though he, you know, was one party and Richard was that, they just learned so much from each other, especially during, remember I come through the time when they were dealing with Saddam Hussein and they were dealing with

Speaker 2 bin Laden. And, you know, there would literally be think tanks in my garden with all of them, Colonel Powell, all of them.

Speaker 2 And then these wacky characters that I wasn't, you know, Richard would be like, like, why don't you not come down? Cause so-and-so is coming. They were the wacky characters.
You know them.

Speaker 2 They don't look like they're anything, but you certainly don't want to wrong them. And I remember one of them I was in the kitchen with once.

Speaker 2 He said to me, you know, the best thing about coming here is having a piece of lasagna. I was like, well,

Speaker 2 are you going to kill me now?

Speaker 2 You know, because they were like that, you know, they were personality-less, but crucial to this sort of, you know, and then that's when you would have all the great thinkers, people that I don't know, you would even think of now.

Speaker 2 And they would literally openly talk about.

Speaker 2 I think about it now as like a person that was just like, oh my God, I got to go grocery shopping because they're having a think take thing in the garden today.

Speaker 1 I want to make something really nice. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 But when I think about that now, in retrospect, in the learning curve for me, and especially when I talk to Hannah or even Richard's kids, like it's very embroidered in who they are because

Speaker 2 politics were a much different thing back then. They weren't scary.
You were something everybody could be involved in without getting stuck on one side or the other, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I know it said the other day.
God,

Speaker 2 that's wild that you found that calendar.

Speaker 1 I mean, there it was. Yeah.
I was like, oh my God,

Speaker 1 I might have. And you know who was at that?

Speaker 2 Was Desmond too, too.

Speaker 1 Wow. Which is amazing.

Speaker 2 And then I remember when they had, one night he had Nelson Mandela stop by at the house, and I was literally in the living room.

Speaker 2 And he just came from, he was, I think they were at the Regency because he used to stay at the Regency, right? And that were all the politicians stayed. And he brought him over for like 10 minutes.

Speaker 2 And I was like, wow, this is really a moment. Because she goes, in that world, as big as it is, it's very tiny back then because they had their clubs.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Their clubs of men that they would move around in. What if

Speaker 2 they have a picture of it somewhere? I should find it. I kind of forgot about all that stuff.
That was another life I had to let go.

Speaker 1 Do you think Nelson Mandela saw Luann at the bar at the Regency?

Speaker 2 I do remember being in an elevator with Netanyahu and all the security guards and thinking, that guy's kind of cute. Who is he? Richard's like, come on.

Speaker 2 I really did. I didn't know who he was.
That is a true story.

Speaker 2 They were closing the thing. I'm like, Richard, we can fit in.

Speaker 2 So we get in. And it was Netanyahu and he smiled at me.
He said, hello, are you? I really didn't know who he was. I know I'm probably going to get a lot of shit about that.

Speaker 2 But remember, it was like 20 years ago and I was much younger and more interested in fashion than politics.

Speaker 1 Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up.
Love it or Leave It brought to you by Min Mint Mobile.

Speaker 1 Most holiday gifts end up in a drawer or the back of your closet or I accidentally left at your cousin's house. Not this one.

Speaker 1 Mint Mobile is offering unlimited premium wireless for $15 a month. That's the best deal of the year.
AKA, the only holiday gift you'll actually use every single day.

Speaker 1 Mint Mobile's best deal of the year is happening right now. Get a three, six, or 12-month unlimited plan for $15 a month.

Speaker 1 All Mint plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talk and text on the nation's largest 5G network. You can even bring your current phone and number over to Mint.

Speaker 1 Best of all, no contracts and no nonsense. Crooked Media's own Nina switched to Mint Mobile last year, and she couldn't be happier with the service and the data speeds.

Speaker 1 And best of all, she's paying a fraction of what she was paying on her old plan with one of the big wireless companies.

Speaker 1 She just texted me the other day and said, Can you please respond about this issue you're ignoring on Slack? And I said, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
I'm responded. And she said, Thank God you don't hate me.

Speaker 1 So that's the energy she brings to text. which we love.
Get them premium wireless for $15 per month. Shop Mint Unlimited Plans at mintmobile.com/slash love it.
That's mintmobile.com/slash love it.

Speaker 1 Limited time offer. Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for a 12-month plan.
Required $15 a month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra.

Speaker 1 Initial plan term only more than 35 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. Capable device required.
Availability speed and coverage vary. See Mintmobile.com.

Speaker 1 I won't let my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis symptoms define me.

Speaker 5 Emerge as you. In two clinical studies, Trimphaya Gusel Kumab, taken by injection, provided 90% clear skin at 16 weeks in 7 out of 10 adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis.

Speaker 5 In a study, nearly 7 out of 10 patients with 90% clearer skin at 16 weeks were still clear at 5 years. At one year and thereafter, patients and healthcare providers knew that trimphaya was being used.

Speaker 5 This may have increased results. Results may vary.

Speaker 1 Serious allergic reactions may occur. Trymphia may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them.

Speaker 1 Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis.

Speaker 1 Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms of infection, including fever, sweats, chills, muscle lags, or cough. Tell your doctor if you had a vaccine or plan to.

Speaker 5 Emerge as you. Learn more about tremphaya, including important safety information at tremphaya.com or call 1-877-578-3527.
See our ad in Food and Wine Magazine.

Speaker 5 For patients prescribed tremphaya, cost support may be available.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 speaking of

Speaker 1 politics, Ramona posts this picture of her with Daniel Penny, and you replied beneath it, oh, Ramona, you look great.

Speaker 1 Yes, I did, and I stand by that. Well, she had, but then like everybody was like, holy shit, why is Ramona posting this? Why is Ramona?

Speaker 2 No, people were wondering why I responded because I said she looks pretty. To tell you the truth, again, I am a number one, and Ryan can agree to this.

Speaker 2 And everyone, I don't, I don't know, again, if it's just not my interest.

Speaker 2 I'm not a person that's always on Instagram. I just don't do it.
So I go to my main people, Luann, you look great. Or Ramona, I miss you.

Speaker 2 So I didn't really, she's always with these Palm Beach characters. I didn't really know who it was.
I know that's going to sound terrible. No, no.

Speaker 2 And I responded, Ramona, you look pretty. And I stand by it.
I thought she looked very pretty.

Speaker 2 What is anything about the person next to him?

Speaker 1 Well, the reason why.

Speaker 2 So people, when they asked me about it, and I'm a person that when you ask me about something, I answer you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because if I didn't, if I if I did it, I'll tell you why I did it, even if it's a mistake.

Speaker 2 So someone called me, said, or wrote to me, you know, right away, some people call from those numbers. They said, did you write this? I said, well, clearly I did.

Speaker 2 It's on the Instagram. What are you asking me?

Speaker 2 I don't understand the questions. Kitty said, well, why did you say that? I said, because I thought she looked pretty.

Speaker 2 It's not that deep.

Speaker 1 It's not that deep. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But like, I think that's.

Speaker 2 Can I put that in print? I said, well, it's already in print on Instagram. Just

Speaker 2 take a screenshot of it and I'll put it on my own Instagram. I mean, I just don't, that's what I mean about social media.
Everything now, and that's a bad thing.

Speaker 2 Everything now is torn apart, is like picked apart and overanalyzed.

Speaker 2 And I think ultimately, not just for this, but for a lot of things for this generation, it really does take away from your ability to be creative and be free and maybe make mistakes.

Speaker 2 You know, we, for anyone to walk around like they're so correct all the time is just fucking boring. We're not.
I make mistakes all the time. Ask Hannah Lynch.
I mean,

Speaker 2 Hannah thinks I'm a walking, you know, Hannah's like, I'm so surprised at this point in your life, you haven't been canceled or something because you do things that like cancels.

Speaker 1 How could this be can't be canceled?

Speaker 2 No, but she's like, no,

Speaker 2 no, no, it's not 1960 anymore. You know, so we make mistakes.
And I think the best thing about making mistakes is just make it real simple. I made a mistake.

Speaker 2 Don't try to get a P, don't hire a PR team. Don't try to like hide away from it.
Just say, uh-oh,

Speaker 2 I made a mistake.

Speaker 1 Well, it does seem like it seems like part of your, it gives you that power, right? Is that you know who you are, you're afraid of who you are. And so, people, and people already know you.

Speaker 1 So, if you do say, you know what, I screwed up, people take that at face value.

Speaker 2 Just like, I didn't know, thanks for telling me. I won't won't happen again.

Speaker 2 You know, and I always say, I used to say on Housewives, if you're really in bad, someone would come to me and be like, I don't really know how to get that. I mean, it's like, just cry.
It works.

Speaker 2 It works with men. It'll work on Housewives.

Speaker 1 Just

Speaker 2 a good tear. Get pulled over.

Speaker 1 Get pulled over. Cry.

Speaker 1 What do you like?

Speaker 1 There's rumors that Ramona is going to run for office. No, there's not.

Speaker 1 That she's doing these photos. She's flirting a little bit with the MAGA stuff.
That's what I'm saying. In Pombia.
That's what it was. That's what I'll tell you.

Speaker 2 These are the rumors. I wouldn't put it past her.
And you know what? She may win. That's the one.

Speaker 1 No, I'd be scared to run against her. That's for real.

Speaker 2 Literally, Ramona, what people don't know about Ramona, or maybe they do, she's brilliantly smart. And I consider myself a smart person.

Speaker 2 I can't say that about all the housewives, but she's very smart. She's very switched on.
She's good. She's good.
I go to, like, I consider myself very switched on financially.

Speaker 2 And we're always talking about post-tack dollars.

Speaker 1 And we're going to do this.

Speaker 2 And are you going to put an LLC? Like, we're, we're really,

Speaker 2 I do, because I have money head. So, but Ramona will let,

Speaker 2 Ramona will lay it out for you. The best thing to do, don't do an LLC.
And if you introduce, I'm like, okay, that's great. That's great.
Hold on. Let me call my accountant.

Speaker 2 And if you need my accountant, she's very, don't let it fool you. You know, don't let it fool you that she's this wacky person.
There's nothing wacky about me.

Speaker 1 No, you can see that.

Speaker 2 And listen, she was part of an era where she was doing, running down. Now, people probably don't even know this, but she was part of the first part of

Speaker 2 these discounters like WAC Daffy's and

Speaker 2 TJ Maxx and Marshalls and all these things that were just starting.

Speaker 1 And she

Speaker 2 sweeped up in the garment district. She was connected to everyone.
And I worked in the garment district at the time for Liz Claiborne.

Speaker 2 I knew who she was because we would outsource all the stuff to her.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 Last thing, before we let you go, you didn't know what this show was. No, you had no idea.

Speaker 2 But it's better like that.

Speaker 1 But this is okay, right? It's a beautiful conversation.

Speaker 2 I'm good at this kind of stuff. I could be with you all day long.
We're

Speaker 2 playing verbal compact. To me, this is like a date.
I want to go over and kiss you. I would take you home.

Speaker 2 This is the kind of date I like.

Speaker 1 Honestly, if I hadn't just gotten engaged, I just gotta. There you go.

Speaker 1 And also, you're not not my type. Gender-wise, gender-wise.
Gender-wise. Stunning, stunning woman.

Speaker 2 I'm glad you cleaned it up there at the end.

Speaker 1 Got to clean it up. Got to keep it nice.
Got to keep it nice. Well, Dorinda Medley, this has been so much fun.
Everyone here is such a fan.

Speaker 1 I do think that like we have.

Speaker 2 Yeah, thank you. It was really fun.
I enjoyed it. And I learned a lot about myself.

Speaker 1 No, I'm not kidding you.

Speaker 1 Well, no, I do think that there's something about.

Speaker 1 There's no one who has, I think, a better perspective on how politics has become like reality TV than someone who has gone to battle and won and done both. Yeah, you've lived in both worlds.

Speaker 2 In both worlds. Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 It's so, I thank you for bringing up that thing. It just took me down memory lane because in order to survive through all this stuff, I sort of place that time with Richard.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 And he makes me want to cry a little bit. So I appreciate you bringing that up.
Well, there is that. It's very sentimental to me because I was that person, you know.

Speaker 1 Well, you're still that person, aren't you?

Speaker 2 No, of course. But I think for survival's sake, you know, you have to sometimes compartmentize in order to.

Speaker 2 But when you you brought it up, I was like, God, I actually remember what I served at that dinner. It like took me back.
So sorry about that, guys.

Speaker 1 But I think this is why people love you because there is this person right there. You're so tired.
You know,

Speaker 1 I got within three inches of

Speaker 1 facing the toughness. And I said, well, I'm going to go back to the back of the corner.
And you're back

Speaker 2 up.

Speaker 2 And you're back on my lap with me petting you. There you go.
That's the art form right there, ladies. You want a husband? You want anything? You're

Speaker 2 kidding you.

Speaker 1 Throw into medley, everybody.

Speaker 1 If you're already scrolling endlessly, which we know you are, don't forget to follow us at Crooked Media on Instagram, TikTok, and all the other ones for original content, community events, and more.

Speaker 1 You can also find Love It or Leave It on YouTube for videos of your favorite segments and other YouTube-exclusive content.

Speaker 1 And if you want to type our praises or rip us a new one, consider dropping us a review.

Speaker 1 Finally, you can join Crooked's Friends of the Pod subscription community for ad-free Love It or Leave It and Pod Save America episodes, subscriber-exclusive pods, and more.

Speaker 1 Sign up at crooked.com slash friends. Love it or leave it is a crooked media production.
It is written and produced by me, John Lovett, and Lee Eisenberg. Kendra James is our executive producer.

Speaker 1 Bill McGrath and Caroline Rustin are our producers. And Kennedy Hill is our associate producer.
Howie Kiefer is our head writer.

Speaker 1 Sarah Lazarus, Jocelyn Kaufman, Peter Miller, Alan Pierre, and Suba Agarwal are our writers. Jordan Cantor is our editor.
Kyle Seglund and Charlotte Landis provide audio support.

Speaker 1 Stephen Cologne is our audio engineer. Our theme song is written and performed by Schersher.

Speaker 1 Thanks to our designer, Sammy Koderna-Rees, for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast.

Speaker 1 And thanks to our digital producers, David Tolles, Claudia Shang, Mia Kalman, Delan Villanueva, and Rachel Gajewski for filming and editing video each week.

Speaker 1 Our head of production is Matt DeGroote, and our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

Speaker 1 Let's love it or leave it.

Speaker 4 The Kia Sportage Turbo Hybrid has a full design, a spacious interior with 232 horsepower, and a 12.3-inch panoramic display to keep the adventure going and fit with the way you live.

Speaker 4 And with Sirius XM, every drive comes alive, bringing you closer to the music, sports, talk, and podcasts you love, right in your vehicle or on the Sirius XM app.

Speaker 4 Every Sirius XM-equipped Kia Sportage Turbo Hybrid includes a three-month trial subscription to SiriusXM, so the experience begins the moment you drive.

Speaker 4 Learn more at kia.com/slash sportage-hybrid, Kia, movement that inspires.

Speaker 6 For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters.

Speaker 6 Trimphaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.

Speaker 6 Tremphaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks.

Speaker 6 If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Trimphaya, proper training is required.

Speaker 6 Trimphaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis.

Speaker 6 Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis.

Speaker 6 Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Explore what's possible.
Ask your doctor about Tremphia today.

Speaker 6 Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit tremphayaradio.com.