Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 43: In Arrears

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Speaker 2 Hello,

Speaker 1 and welcome to Rewind with Karen in Georgia.

Speaker 1 This is the episode where we take you back to the early days of My Favorite Murder, and we recap our old episodes with new commentary and updates and insights.

Speaker 1 And in today's episode, we're recapping episode 43, which I'll never forget the name because I didn't know what the word meant. And it was the first time I think I heard it.

Speaker 1 The episode is called In Arrears. In Arrears.
Arrears. That's right.
In arrears. In your ear.
In arrears. This episode came out on November 17th, 2016.

Speaker 1 Rue Paul's birthday, Rachel McAdams' birthday, Danny DeVito's birthday, three classic Scorpios. Gorgeous.
I hope they celebrate together. What a great party that would make.

Speaker 1 So fun. But in the meantime, let's listen to the intro of episode 43.

Speaker 1 Let's start a punk bam.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Hey,

Speaker 1 what should the name of it be?

Speaker 1 Hardkill.

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 1 okay, all right,

Speaker 1 all right, bye.

Speaker 1 uh

Speaker 1 welcome to my favorite murder. My name's Karen Kilgareff.
That's Georgia Hardstar. Hi, we're here to talk about true crime, murders, and how it feels to be alive in late 2016.

Speaker 1 Georgia, what are your thoughts? Oh,

Speaker 1 let's fucking get into. No, I don't know.
Do you really want to ask me that question, dude? Let's go to the phones.

Speaker 1 When you say late 2016, it makes me think that someday this will be like a time capsule.

Speaker 1 Someone, and hold on, I feel like I'm talking with my mouth. You know, that like you are talking with your mouth.
The whole thing.

Speaker 1 I just ate a bite of something and I have that like weird

Speaker 1 chewed up food. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That weird chewed up food that you get in your mouth when you eat things. Yeah.
I get that sometimes. It's dinner.

Speaker 1 Breakfast sometimes. Sometimes.
Lunch. I don't know.
Snacks.

Speaker 1 Time capsule. Hello to 2050.

Speaker 1 I mean, seriously, everything that you do that gets put on the internet is permanent. I remember the internet goes down and everything.
I don't believe that. That's very true.

Speaker 1 Unless the grid goes down. I think all of society ends.
That's what I really think is. I actually don't feel that this is going to be a time capsule because it's all going to go down.

Speaker 1 There's a really great book.

Speaker 1 That I won't remember. Is it called It's All Gonna Go Down?

Speaker 1 Yeah, but I haven't written it yet.

Speaker 1 And it's not based on anything scientific or

Speaker 1 it's not like you're a computer person or anything. It's just kind of like.

Speaker 1 They're going to do a count in 2050 and the word dude is going to appear 4,000 times in my book. Dude, bro.
Dude. So then?

Speaker 1 I texted Georgia. Sorry, I went away for a second because I had to remember this, but I don't know what you're going to say.
And I'm scared. I texted Georgia.

Speaker 1 No, it was just about something, but I, in the text, I called you dude. It was like like something congratulatory.
And I was like, way to go, dude. And you wrote back, that's so dude.
I know.

Speaker 1 I saw that later.

Speaker 1 Did you do it on purpose? No. Okay.
I couldn't figure out if you were being, it felt like you were like, thanks. Like it was like you going, yeah, thanks a lot.

Speaker 1 No, what I meant to write actually was thanks, dude. But instead, I wrote, that's dude.
That's so dude. That's dude.
And I didn't, I didn't notice it till like hours later. So I was like, well,

Speaker 1 I'm not gonna bother her it was like night it was like nighttime on a saturday i'm not gonna bother her that now so that's dude like she's gotta know what i mean a little bit i looked at it i was just like she might be telling me to off right now although there's really no reason to anyway i would never if i'm telling you to off it's because i miswrote something

Speaker 1 Oh, because like you typed in it because you were trying to write. Thanks, dude.
Yeah. And if I put an exclamation mark, it's friendly.
Oh, okay. If I put a period, it's not so friendly.

Speaker 1 If there's no punctuation, you're driving. Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You to hell.

Speaker 1 Do we have some corners? I have a correction corner, which I kind of love because I think it's hilarious. But last week in our very, in a very special episode.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 In the breakdown episode. In the breakdown, when everything went wrong, when the grid started to sizzle.
Yeah. And in the beginning.
And now it's fully aflame. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And in 2050, when it's completely down, this won't matter. But

Speaker 1 I said that the moment I saw, what I meant was the moment on TV on Tuesday night when I saw Rachel Maddow's face fall, I was like, oh, we're fucked. Yes.

Speaker 1 But instead, I said Ann Maddox, which is a girlfriend of mine who's like super sweet and not

Speaker 1 someone you know in real life. Oh, totally.
It's like a friend of mine who's a comedian. She's super funny.
Like she's great. But I was just like, and I saw Anne Maddow, Anne Maddow,

Speaker 1 Maddox, and I was just like,

Speaker 1 when I saw Ann Maddox's face, that's really cool. I haven't seen her in a while.
So that's not what happened.

Speaker 1 Somebody actually tweeted to us, and it was just with the quotes around it of you saying, when you kept saying don't marrow. Oh, that's another correction.

Speaker 1 That's, I don't know if that's correction corner or as much as it's like stroke corner. It's, um, we should have stroke out corner because it's, it happens constantly.

Speaker 1 And when you were doing it, it sounded right to me every time. That scares me because A, I wasn't drinking.
You know, that was your mistake. I can't function.
That was the problem.

Speaker 1 I said, I said, become a, I was meaning to say, become a bone marrow donor, but twice in a row, I said don't.

Speaker 1 And I didn't, I would have kept going if you hadn't said, and you said don marrow. And I was like, yeah, I would, I didn't even notice.
It's, and those are the kind of things.

Speaker 1 I feel like such a, it makes me feel like an asshole, but I know that people listening are like, but that just happened.

Speaker 1 Like it would, it drives me crazy when I, when I listen to podcasts and something something happens and then your brain explodes because nobody says anything about it or it feels like people don't notice.

Speaker 1 I want to be called out on my shit all the time. Okay.
I want to be fucking imperfect and okay with it. Yes.
Same here. Me too.
Yeah. I mean, I think we're pretty good about that.

Speaker 1 About being imperfect? Well, being imperfect and mentioning it. We are.
I think we do it. We do it well.
Well, because I trust you.

Speaker 1 I know that when you mention it to me, you're just, it's not because you're trying to like make me feel small. You're just like, here's what's actually happening.
Good personalities. I know.

Speaker 1 That's why the other day when you told me, you called me out on saying the word fucking all the time, I didn't, I know you didn't mean it like that. Oh, okay.
I know you didn't.

Speaker 1 If, if I did, like, but I, I know, intention. You know, intention.
Okay, good.

Speaker 1 Very well. It's good.
This is, we're, we're really building a bridge of love right now. We are.
It feels good. I mean, we need it.
Now, now more than ever.

Speaker 1 I mean, 2016. Now more than ever.
Now more than ever.

Speaker 1 I have a

Speaker 1 very official corrections corner that I really like. Okay.
And it's from Milo. I don't know if

Speaker 1 I'm assuming Milo is a man.

Speaker 1 And it's, I love this. Okay.
So it's misuse of the word psychotic. Oh, okay.
Hello, Karen in Georgia.

Speaker 1 I'm a big fan of my favorite murder, but one thing that I have noticed is a misuse slash abuse of the word psychotic. This is all me.
Because I love, my mom was a psychiatric nurse. Right.

Speaker 1 So I use a lot of the terminology that she used to throw around, but she knew what it meant and I don't. Well, when you say, you say things, psychopath, he was, you know, he was a psycho, whatever.

Speaker 1 Right. Yeah, it's in our vernacular.
But I like, I like hearing this. Me too.
Okay, so ready?

Speaker 1 Psychopathy, socio. sociopathy, I don't know how you pronounce that one, is different from psychosis.

Speaker 1 People suffering from psychosis are actually less likely to commit violent crime than the general public and are actually more likely to have violent crime committed against them.

Speaker 1 That's so interesting.

Speaker 1 While there are are those who have mood disorders or display psychotic behavior that do commit violent crime, like Richard Chase, Vincent Lee, who I don't know who that is and now must know. Yes.
L.I.

Speaker 1 The ways we judge them should be different than the ways we judge people who have more awareness for the crimes that they commit. That's all I wanted to say.
Thank you for your awesome podcast, Milo.

Speaker 1 Thanks, Milo. Milo.
First of all, I hope that this is true and that you are some kind of psychopath.

Speaker 1 Milo. You are such a psychopath who are sending that.
No,

Speaker 1 you know, that you're qualified in some way, that you're telling us this from a place of education. I mean, we'll just take media.
I'm sure it's correct. I guess we'll have to double-check it.

Speaker 1 I like that. I like hearing that.
Remember when, remember when like

Speaker 1 it was like 25% of people are psychopaths, sociopaths. And then you were like, corrections quarter.
Yeah. It's only one quarter.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I get intimidated by numbers. They're scary.
But I love psychological terminology. Also, there was somebody that wrote to us that

Speaker 1 was offended by

Speaker 1 something.

Speaker 1 They were offended by something. They were offended by something, but it was a thing where

Speaker 1 it was almost just like a little,

Speaker 1 it's a note to be careful of how we are judgmental when people have mental illness. I was just going to say that because we just read a

Speaker 1 hometown story where they said that someone

Speaker 1 was found out that they were bipolar, and I immediately didn't want to say what they were because

Speaker 1 that's not an indication that you're going to be a murderer or that you're mentally ill. Well, you are mentally ill, but that you're, you know, dangerous.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it just doesn't need the stigma. Yeah, I know people who are bipolar and they're very awesome people.
Right.

Speaker 1 I don't, I hate unless it's something extreme and clear, I don't want to say that that person

Speaker 1 has this mental illness. Yeah.
And I think us being conversational and reading stories, and especially when we're talking about killers or serial killers,

Speaker 1 we can play it very fast and loose with judgments about them because we feel like, well, they're clearly a villain.

Speaker 1 But the point that this person was making was a little bit more like,

Speaker 1 you know, just not everybody that has a mental disorder. is a killer and that makes people if you hear the thing that you have but but it's as if like that's everybody.

Speaker 1 We never want to make anybody feel like that, no, quite the opposite, especially with mental with mental illness and disorders, which we're very big on. Like,

Speaker 1 fucking everyone has them, and some people treat them and some don't. And you shouldn't be scared to treat them because you found out that a fucking serial killer has it.

Speaker 1 I don't want to, yeah, or like, it's just on this podcast, we're, we're not judging you. No, that's not what we try are trying to do, and we'll try to be careful about that.

Speaker 1 We're judging murderers, yeah. We get to pick and choose, so we judge, and we'll adjust it weekly based on how much feedback we get on twitter just always know we're good people we're the best people

Speaker 1 always give us the benefit of the doubt even if we're being insanely affected you're probably wrong not us i just want to um clear that up such an official corrections corner this week so good and maddox shout out shout out and maddox you're doing such a great job helping us through our political times

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 1 What else? Oh, shirt. There's new shirts up.
Oh, yeah. I love that new shirt.
Oh, yeah. Okay.
Good. Fuck politeness? Fuck politeness.
And then it says Murderino underneath it?

Speaker 1 It says my favorite murder underneath it. Oh, my favorite murder.
It just looks like, kind of looks like the Murderino design. Sure.
It's cool.

Speaker 1 We were talking about this earlier. Fuck politeness, but also in these very difficult times,

Speaker 1 be careful of the people around you. Be sensitive and try to connect.
on a human level in a way that you normally don't maybe.

Speaker 1 I think it's super important that people around you understand that you care about them. Yeah.
And if you are the kind of person who doesn't care about people, do your thing.

Speaker 1 But I just want to underline that fuck politeness in our world means don't sacrifice yourself on the altar of politeness because that could be dangerous for you.

Speaker 1 But it also, it does not mean fuck the people around you in general,

Speaker 1 especially now, especially now. Now's the time to be

Speaker 1 even more kind of caring and connected.

Speaker 1 Just don't like let people follow you to your car and shit.

Speaker 1 It's a we're talking safety versus, you know, when you're talking to the person at Starbucks, be nicer than you normally would be because everyone's freaked out.

Speaker 1 But if you're being intimidated and you're scared of something, you know, it's a kind of a trust your gut type of

Speaker 1 saying. Yeah.
You guys know what we're talking about, but I also

Speaker 1 underline it. There's the Mr.

Speaker 1 Rogers quote of, you know, how his mom always said, look for the helpers in any bad situation, look for the helpers well how about let's be helpers be helpers exactly yeah speaking of being helpers this is my favorite thing that's happened to me in a while okay um

Speaker 1 so i'm no brag in the writer's guild of america look wait

Speaker 1 i've been waiting to lord this over you for a while this whole time i've been talking to a writer's guild member

Speaker 1 so in the writer's guild they have this thing where no i do think it's really cool though by the way i just want to say that that i'm in the writer's guild i mean in the writer's guild is a fucking cool thing oh thanks yeah No, I'm glad I mentioned it.

Speaker 1 No, but they do this thing where normally in every other like entertainment union, they send you a thing that says, oh, you know, your yearly dues are 160 or whatever.

Speaker 1 But because it's writers and most of us are freelance, they base your dues on based on how much money you made that year, which is, or per quarter, which is based on, it's so impossible.

Speaker 1 The second I start thinking about it, I shut down and like go and sit in front of the TV, like in protest. You big old, I can't.
I can't. It's like math.
It's all the things I hate. I get overwhelmed.

Speaker 1 So I have been in arrears and my dues at the WG. You've been in what? In arrears.
Yeah, you texted me that today, and I don't know what that means. Oh, it just means you haven't paid your dues.

Speaker 1 That's okay. And you can't, if you do it long enough, they suspend your

Speaker 1 membership and then you can't work. So that's how I can't, I, my Sparklets membership is,

Speaker 1 I'm overdue on that. That's why you saw all those empty bottles when you walked up my stairs.
Be very careful. You don't want to get into arrears with the Sparklets guy.
I'm in arrears with Sparklets.

Speaker 1 He will kick you in the arrears.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 such a dad joke. That was amazing.
I love dad jokes. So

Speaker 1 I have a lot of these things in my life right now, but one of them is this dues that I don't know how to figure out how much I need to send.

Speaker 1 And I won't take the time like everybody else does to sit down and do it because I think I'm better than other people on special. Aren't you? A little bit.

Speaker 1 Um, no, so it's a thing that's hanging over my head. I get a letter today, and I'm like, you have to open this, you have to face this.

Speaker 1 So I read the letter, and the letter tells me exactly how much I owe. Oh my god.
And I'm like, oh, oh, this is the letter. This is what I need.
This is exactly it.

Speaker 1 And I read the rest of the letter and it's like, please send it in in a timely fashion. It's just a form.
It looks like a form letter, except for it has my amount in it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And the sign-off is stay sexy, don't get murdered. Fuck.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So my friend at the WGA,

Speaker 1 who works in the dues department and who sends out these letters all the time. Your new bestie.
My new bestie helped me in a way that she will never know how much.

Speaker 1 What if she's actually just been using that sign-off for decades

Speaker 1 and she's going to sue us? And this first time it actually hits someone who was, who wasn't like, what the fuck? Finally, someone could appreciate it. Yeah, yeah.
It was,

Speaker 1 you'll never know how much that helped me. It's such a little wink to you.

Speaker 1 It's such a compliment. I know.
But then also, it's like a person was like, I'll take care of that. This shit, this podcast, man.
I mean, she's not paying my dues.

Speaker 1 No, let's be, but that's the real favorite. She should.
I mean,

Speaker 1 you're welcome. Thousands and thousands of people.

Speaker 1 This podcast. And I think after last week's episode, that I.
They feel really good about the post-election episode.

Speaker 1 And all of our our friends and all of our friends who have been like, I needed that. And

Speaker 1 I think we did what we were supposed to do, which was in like a fucking overtly crazy political podcast, but I like,

Speaker 1 here's the general mood we're in. And here's what we can do.

Speaker 1 Which was awesome. It just made me flash on, though, our reviews for the sugar-free gummy bears.
Yeah. And then for the banana slicer.

Speaker 1 It was amazing. Now people are posting other reviews.
And I read the one, I don't have the name, but it's for the vitamin D milk. No, I haven't seen it.

Speaker 1 And it is, it's called like Something Farms Vitamin D milk. And they've, they've posted it on the Facebook page, but it's, you can find it.
It's Amazon reviews. It's the funniest fucking stuff.

Speaker 1 It's like a, it's an, it's like a jug of milk, right? It's a jug of milk, but people are writing it like, have you guys poured this over dry cereal? It's awesome. I mean, you have to read it.

Speaker 1 Some of them are really short. One lady wrote this big, long story.
It's the funniest thing. I feel like, I I feel like what happened last week was what was supposed to happen.

Speaker 1 And I'm really happy with it. And people have been so fucking kind and cool.
I know, not on your Twitter, probably, or our Twitter. Well, Twitter's different.
We know. It's a big garbage can

Speaker 1 of human waste. Of human waste.
But on Instagram and everywhere else.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's the thing about this fucking podcast. It's like, oh, it makes me want to cry.

Speaker 1 I might cry. Go ahead.
This is me crying. Cry right now.

Speaker 1 You're going to do a dry cry? That's basically what I do because I'm dead inside. But if I weren't,

Speaker 1 I'd be alive

Speaker 1 from Murderinos.

Speaker 1 Oh, and also over the weekend, I went to Vince's.

Speaker 1 We went to this like charity event and they have these like free bracelets where you can you pick a word and they and they stamp it into this metal and it's like your word of they said to me like what's your word of intention that every day you want to look at you know like breathe or like you know it's like one of those like dream I intend to breathe today.

Speaker 1 Yeah, like, no, I will. You know, there's like rocks that you get at like fucking bed, bath, and beyond that say, like, dream, love, build, be happy, whatever the fuck.
It sounded just

Speaker 1 now, it just sounded a little bit like you said, dream, blood.

Speaker 1 That's what I got with it. No, I was like, okay,

Speaker 1 can I get SSDGM?

Speaker 1 So I have it. I have one of these that says stay sexy, don't get murdered initial, right? And I want to give it to someone at the Chicago Podcast Festival, right? I need to give it to someone.

Speaker 1 Yeah, just you mean pick someone? Yeah, you could throw it, you could pick someone you could slip into their pocket and that you they never see. That's fun, that's a fun way, right?

Speaker 1 I just want to, and I know it's such a fucking trivial, stupid thing, but I just think it's fucking hilarious that she was like, okay, and like wrote it down and like didn't know what it was.

Speaker 1 Well, and it kind of seems like it's shorthand for some kind of sadomasochistic sexual situation, doesn't it? SSB, SSB, BD BDL. I have this.

Speaker 1 I got my, this is, we can cut this because this is boring, but I'm still going to say it. I had my.
Goodbye, skippers. Goodbye.
I had my DNA tested on

Speaker 1 23andMe, which is like this crazy thing that you get your DNA test. It tells you where you're from, what percentage, and it also tells you what

Speaker 1 DNA abnormalities you have. And the one I have, the initials basically look like motherfucker.
Really? It's M-T-H-F-R or some shit. And it just looks like motherfucker.

Speaker 1 And it just means you're going to die in a year. It really basically means that makes that abnormality.
You're really fucked. Like you can't.
Motherfucker. Fucker.
It's totally fucked.

Speaker 1 That's hilarious.

Speaker 1 You should have had that on a bracelet.

Speaker 1 It's me, the one with M-T-H-F-K. It's like when you, what's the like, do not resuscitate bracelet?

Speaker 1 Motherfucker, do not resuscitate. Just don't.
Just leave it. It just says, I'm good.
I'm

Speaker 1 my do not resuscitate. You You know what? If I'm down here, leave me here.
My donor sticker on my license just says, just take it.

Speaker 1 It's like, I don't even care if I'm unconscious or not. You know what? You can have it.
Someone else needs it more than I do. I don't need this liver.
Like, I really just sit around all day.

Speaker 1 So just fucking take it. Give it to someone.

Speaker 1 Just take it. Just give it to someone with a degree in something important.
Someone who's really trying.

Speaker 1 And we are back.

Speaker 1 Did you have any idea that your friend Ann Maddox would go on to become such a reality TV superstar? That's right. So she was Tom Sandoval's assistant in Vanderpemp Rules.

Speaker 1 And she became Ariana Maddox's assistant. I don't think there's any relation there.
Okay. But yeah, she's like a hit and I'm so happy for her.
It's like she deserves all of it.

Speaker 1 She's the sweetest person. And I love that I fucking just randomly brought her up in 2016.
And now it's like, yeah, everyone knows her. Yes, it's the best.

Speaker 1 Also, just the idea of you're mistaking her for Rachel Maddow is the, is such a, one of those flips that I do where I'm like, it kind of sounds the same. I don't know.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And she does have a podcast, too. I should shout out called We Signed an NDA.
Hilarious. All the assistants, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Celebrity assistant world. Such a good idea.
Yeah, she's great. What do they do? Do they just, it's like celebrity one, two, and three?

Speaker 1 I'll listen to you. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay.
So then we also talk about 23andMe, which I just deleted completely recently, you two.

Speaker 1 I was never on it. You were never on it.
I'm one of those people that I never got Alexa or Siri. I don't, I am as paranoid and as kind of like stay away from me as possible.

Speaker 1 So any of that stuff when it first came out, I was like, I don't care who I'm related to. I am literally the opposite.
Or just like, take all of my information, tell me what's wrong with me, please.

Speaker 1 Oh, you want me to input my like blood work info into this so you can tell me how I can fix myself? Sure. But don't you think it is because I lived 10 years years longer with no internet than you?

Speaker 1 Like it was not reality for me until my early 20s. Right.
That totally makes sense. So it's kind of just like, don't go into that room.
Ooh. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, you're right because 23andMe filed for bankruptcy back in March. That's right.

Speaker 1 So after having a huge data breach, so now, yeah, take your, take your info down. You can download your info so you always have it.
Yeah. Like your blood work and stuff, but then like shut it down.

Speaker 1 But I mean, they still have it anyway. So they have it.
Don't worry about it.

Speaker 1 that's gonna be for the future blade runner world where there's like a machine walking around with your skin on it or whatever sorry i could be cloned so easily but why would you like why nobody wants

Speaker 1 you're gonna find out

Speaker 1 i mean go ahead she's gonna be a mess but then what if

Speaker 1 what if you got cloned and like they pick you as you're the future waitress of every restaurant or whatever

Speaker 1 i mean what if you get picked i'd eat there she's a good waitress she's funny and sassy Yeah, but like, also, she does her side work and she'll close and be efficient and sell you Coke.

Speaker 1 All the things you want from a waitress. That's right.
Give you a little bump every now and then. When you need it.
All right. Well, should we get into your story, your first episode? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Let's do it. Yeah, this is, I mean, when I was going back through this story, I was just like, wow.
I think it's one of the last. child murder death of children.

Speaker 1 Like, I know I did more in the future, but it's that thing where it gave me that sense of, like,

Speaker 1 if you could track my

Speaker 1 lack of interest or the reduced interest when you get to a story like this, where you're like, what happened? That's crazy.

Speaker 1 And then when you actually hear it and the reality of what happened that day is so tragic and dark and sad that it's like, oh, that's right.

Speaker 1 Like, when you get to the end of many of these stories, you're just like, this is such a heavy

Speaker 1 child, an innocent child who had no choice in the matter. And it's, yeah, I know you you don't like to do those.

Speaker 1 I don't either, but I do them more than you do. Yeah.
Well, let's get into it. This is Karen's story about the International Dunes Hotel murder-suicide.

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Speaker 1 all right can i just do my murder

Speaker 1 i hate it yeah no

Speaker 1 go why do you want skippers keep skipping

Speaker 1 Just don't come back. Skip all the way over.
I really like my murder. So kick back through it.

Speaker 1 This will be great. This will be, I'll just skim this.
I'll throw out some concepts.

Speaker 1 No, this was

Speaker 1 here's here's the long and short of it. I am doing

Speaker 1 the hometown murder that William sent in that I balked on because I thought that was so unfair of me that someone, I would have been so livid if I was listening to this podcast, gave a shit about it, heard my name.

Speaker 1 They started to do it and they were just like, no, I'm not doing it. And then they were like, throwing children.
Nope. Bye.
Yeah. So I want to know.
So, William, first of all, my

Speaker 1 many and thorough apologies for jerking you around.

Speaker 1 But the thing is that once you get into it, it's not like anything saves it. It's not like it gets better.

Speaker 1 It doesn't have a different ending or like there's not cool facts. So wait, you were correct.
I was correct, but I'm going to power through it. Good for you.

Speaker 1 Sounds like

Speaker 1 life.

Speaker 1 Right? You just got to buckle down. You're correct, but you just got to fucking.

Speaker 1 You just got to say the hideous facts. And the hideous facts are this, that

Speaker 1 basically

Speaker 1 this, this,

Speaker 1 it took place on August 4th of 1978. So you set the tone.
We're in Salt Lake City. It's 1978.
So you got a lot of brown. You got a lot of corduroy.
A lot of blondes, actually.

Speaker 1 Do you think there are a lot of sideburns or no? I think there are plenty of sideburns.

Speaker 1 I think there's blonde hair with brown sideburns, which is a thing that only happened back then and doesn't happen anymore. Good.

Speaker 1 Remember, Stephen? Stephen was there. He knows.
Stephen and Elvis were a traveling band.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 there was, now, as many people know, Salt Lake City is predominantly Mormon. I mean, the whole state is very Mormon.

Speaker 1 Salt Lake City, more so.

Speaker 1 And there was a man. This man is named Bruce Longo, and he has been excommunicated from the

Speaker 1 Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Saints because he's too rock and roll.

Speaker 1 If you're too rock and roll for the fucking Church of Latter-day Saints, if your ideas are too big and bold and you get excommunicated, something's going on because those are people that like, they like a group.

Speaker 1 They like, they like their religion. They want people in it.
Big and bold is their

Speaker 1 saying. I don't know what's their saying.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think it's big and bold in

Speaker 1 bold

Speaker 1 and red all over. Big and bold in a couple tablets.
That's us, the LDS.

Speaker 1 I can't wait to see that meme.

Speaker 1 So Bruce Longo,

Speaker 1 he got excommunicated. And so

Speaker 1 he started his own.

Speaker 1 uh cult essentially it's what you do when you get kicked out of a thing yes that's right you splinter off you start your own you grow a ponytail, you gain 200 pounds, and you fucking act like the cult leader that you are.

Speaker 1 He also changed his name to

Speaker 1 Emmanuel David, which is a thoroughly religious sounding name. It is.
And

Speaker 1 I can never find a name of the cult that he started, but what

Speaker 1 it was, was everybody in the cult had the last name David. So that's, it was like, they didn't put together a, you know, 25 Davids or any kind of like catchy

Speaker 1 25 Davids. That's our band name.

Speaker 1 There it is. That's our punk band name.
Punk Brock. 25 Davids.

Speaker 1 But, but basically he got, it was mostly his family members and

Speaker 1 a couple friends and they got into it. And he apparently was

Speaker 1 like all cult leaders, he's charismatic. He's very engaging.
He has a ponytail. He has a ponytail.
He's kind of large and he gives people a reason. Yeah, you know, he's like a guide.

Speaker 1 How great would that be to have that to believe in a thing? Right now, if I could meet a 300-pound man with a ponytail that told me what was what,

Speaker 1 goodbye, I would quit this podcast. I would walk on you both.
I'm trying so hard just to let you finish because I just want you to keep going.

Speaker 1 You knew I was just like, please didn't even know what I was going to say.

Speaker 1 Not interrupt this.

Speaker 1 You have to finish the sentence. Email at

Speaker 1 Karen.

Speaker 1 No, I'm also, I like a bigger man. Don't worry.
Don't worry that I'm being sarcastic right now. No, for sure.
Ponytail, no fucking way. No, gross.
What are you doing? Are you an iguana dude? Stop it.

Speaker 1 Dude.

Speaker 1 Did you say, are you an iguana? Dude, are you an iguana dude? You know, the guys who hang out at coffee shops in the 90s with a niguana on their shoulders?

Speaker 1 What the fuck? You're an iguana dude. Yes.
Okay. Got him.

Speaker 1 And they're everywhere.

Speaker 1 All right. So essentially, he,

Speaker 1 they would travel all around. They were kind of nomadic and they would live in hotels and they would

Speaker 1 stay in these hotels. And then when they would go to leave, like a couple months later, they would just skip out on the bill.
And before credit cards existed, I think. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And that must have been it. Yeah.
78. I think there were credit cards.
This was back when women weren't allowed to have their own credit cards. Shut your fucking face.
Yeah, I swear to God.

Speaker 1 I remember when my mom had credit cards and when she'd go to a place, they had to look her name up in a fucking like yellow pages book of like Visa.

Speaker 1 Oh, there's your name to make sure it's legit, just to like charge it.

Speaker 1 It was so different back then. Maybe I'm misremembering.
Are you thinking of the phone book?

Speaker 1 They would look in a phone book, then they'd call her and be like, Is this your credit card? This is like two weeks ago, so I'm probably wrong.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, go on.

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 1 so you know, among the things that this group did

Speaker 1 was

Speaker 1 they made a large sword for him,

Speaker 1 Emmanuel David. They made a large sword.
You acted so casual about that. Among the things is that they prayed to, you know, the different God.
Nope. Nope.
They made a big sword. Got it.
And

Speaker 1 he

Speaker 1 believed, he was declaring now that he was God. He thought he was God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit all in one.

Speaker 1 Hey, red flag. You can be one.

Speaker 1 Maybe two. You can't be every.
He's a bus burrito. He's just like, I'm breakfast from a burrito.
Throw it in there. On them everything.
Hey, how about some sour cream? Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 So with his sword, he promised to lop off the heads of thousands.

Speaker 1 So we're not, this isn't a positive cult.

Speaker 1 This isn't like Sephora. This is bad news.

Speaker 1 He didn't give free samples. No, not at all.
He didn't call you muffin when you went in there. I love it.
That's a true story. It happened to me one time.
Okay, so

Speaker 1 the police and the Mormon church were keeping an eye on emmanuel david and his group because um he would show up uh with his followers at temple square in salt lake city and uh they wouldn't be violent there would never be arrests but he you know he was there to like tell everybody that he was the real deal he was a presence yeah and of course he probably brought that sword

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 1 And then he, what he would do is he would separate the men in the group from their wives and children, send them off to different cities, give them some kind of a task.

Speaker 1 Like you, you know, you have to go off and preach in Nebraska or whatever. And then he would keep all the women and children around him.
Cult leaders love that.

Speaker 1 That's their big thing is like, I'm everybody's daddy.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 from 75 to 76,

Speaker 1 he lived at the Red Lion Inn in Missoula, Montana,

Speaker 1 while

Speaker 1 his followers were working elsewhere, working quotes, air quotes. But then he had a vision.
He decided that the followers he had sent away were actually archangels. And

Speaker 1 he renamed them Michael, Raphael, and Gabriel.

Speaker 1 Emmanuel.

Speaker 1 Then he told them that he believed the federal government was about to collapse. And

Speaker 1 was he wrong? I mean, he was early. That's all.

Speaker 1 And he promised that he was going to save the Republic and become its new leader. Hey.

Speaker 1 Hey. So he told them to sell.
Now, this is funny because I didn't set this up because I'm reading from the middle of the page. He told them to sell their karate studio.
Wait, what? I forgot.

Speaker 1 I skipped a paragraph and now I've misled everybody. The thing that every cult leader does and every religious says, he says, sell your karate studio.

Speaker 1 Always try to get you away from your karate studio. I'm sorry, chip chop, karate studio will not be sold.

Speaker 1 You've got to stand by that karate studio. Chip chop, chip, chop.
That was the first nigga in my head. And you did karate hands while you said that.
I did fucking chip chop. Chip and a chop.

Speaker 1 Basically, Stephen's on the ground.

Speaker 1 So essentially, he was basically saying, you have to dedicate your life to me. You have these other, you have, there, you have real jobs.
You're kind of still trying to hold it down in normal society.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Break ties and give me the money, go to work in other cities, and

Speaker 1 later days, latter days.

Speaker 1 Come on.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, I interrupted you, but that was pretty.

Speaker 1 First of all that later days, then, but then I was like, latter days. That's right.
Later days, latter days. I see.
And then you put them together. Did you see that?

Speaker 1 And but first, you held your finger up like you had a great secret to tell me because I couldn't listen anymore until I said that.

Speaker 1 Oh, no. I can't listen.

Speaker 1 No, it was good.

Speaker 1 Look, okay,

Speaker 1 this is just all

Speaker 1 a year later. He gets the archangels to come back, and he says that he has found the tablets that the Mormon church founder Joseph Smith claimed to have found and read.
That's Joseph Smith.

Speaker 1 What happened upon them?

Speaker 1 Well, he says he found them. So once they get back to Salt Lake, he doesn't have tablets, but when they all meet together, he says, I am the tablets.

Speaker 1 Now we're right. Now we're into the bad.
Imagine the feeling in your stomach. You're one of those archangels, like you're in it.
You're loving it. And then suddenly it's like, dude, you're what?

Speaker 1 You're not tablets. That's not a thing.
This isn't good. You just like, you cross the line of things I can believe.
Yes.

Speaker 1 But not, but once you're in, you're in and you have to kind of keep on playing along because you've already grown out your matching ponytail or whatever they had to do.

Speaker 1 I can't find any information about this GD cult.

Speaker 1 You're just like, well, I did this thing and I thought this was correct. And so I have to keep going with it.
Otherwise, yes, exactly. Well, and a lot of them were his family members.

Speaker 1 So they were like, we love him and he, we believe in all his promises. They said, he's not a bad guy.
It's not, it's just his ponytail is bad.

Speaker 1 So, all right. Here's the long and the short of it is the government is investigating this guy because they keep these, he is being investigated for wire fraud and

Speaker 1 other frauds, assorted frauds.

Speaker 1 It's like a sea candy box for fraud.

Speaker 1 He's dark chocolate with almonds with no caramel. No gross.
And you buy

Speaker 1 that. Why is this happening? This is the grossest fraud I could have gotten.
Grossest. Where's the Bardeau bar? What's the one you can't have of the C's candy box?

Speaker 1 I don't like that one, but I also, oh, the Nougat.

Speaker 1 You don't like Nougat? The white nougat with the nut. With the chewing? With the chewing and the.
The meat and the eating? Yes, I hate it. No, for real, though.

Speaker 1 It's too much chewing. It's a lot of chewing.
Nougat. Fuck yourself, Nougat.
I disagree. I'm as new as Nougat's

Speaker 1 compatriot,

Speaker 1 you go. Fuck yourself.
Yes or no? Yes. Oh, okay.
We're opposite. We should split.
We are not opposite. We are made for each other.
We're made for each other. Honey.

Speaker 1 Except for I can't eat share anymore.

Speaker 1 One fact.

Speaker 1 So in all of the ways he's broken the law, in all of the mint patty ways, in all of the molasses chip ways, he's done it all.

Speaker 1 And so, what he does, and so they've been living in the International Dunes Hotel in Salt Lake City for a year. This is a $90 a day

Speaker 1 hotel.

Speaker 1 They are living in a suite. It's

Speaker 1 him and his wife,

Speaker 1 Rebecca. Yes or no? When you were rigid, that would have sounded amazing, right? Living in a hotel? Yes.
I get to live in a hotel? It still sounds amazing. That's my favorite.

Speaker 1 I've been in hotels too many times and I just, they make me sad. They make me so happy.
I do love hotel.

Speaker 1 I run into the bathroom immediately because I want to see the bathroom set up. Oh, okay.
I thought you meant like because you had to use it. I just run in there.
It's a pee from excitement.

Speaker 1 No, no, no. I guess you're right.
Yeah, you're right. Well, here, my thing is they're usually very quiet.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And the beds are cushy and you can just get into them and watch TV. That sounds like my house.
Excuse. I know, but when I do that at my house, which I do a lot, I always feel bad.
Uh-oh.

Speaker 1 In a hotel, it's like

Speaker 1 one request a room that's not by the elevators. There's a travel tip.
Good tip. Come on.
Sorry. No, no.

Speaker 1 So they've been, so they've been living in this big hotel in Salt Lake City, the whole family. So

Speaker 1 he has,

Speaker 1 Emmanuel has a wife named Rachel, and they have six children.

Speaker 1 Rebecca, who's five, David, who's six, Joseph, who's eight, Deborah, who's nine, Josh, Josha, Josha,

Speaker 1 who's ten, and Rachel.

Speaker 1 Nah, it's J-O-S-H-A-H-A. Like

Speaker 1 Josh. Haha.
Aren't those names from a VC Andrews book? Some book. It's a book that they're from.
Kind of.

Speaker 1 It's a book that they're from. It's VC Andrews.
Rachel, who's 14, is the oldest. And then Elizabeth,

Speaker 1 who is 13.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 they're all living in this hotel. The government's circling.
And so Emmanuel borrows his truck from one of the people whose last name is also David.

Speaker 1 He drives up to a canyon and commits suicide by putting a hose from the exhaust pipe into the truck cab. What a fucking dick.

Speaker 1 I mean, it is quite selfish because this family that he has,

Speaker 1 by all reports of the people that worked at this hotel

Speaker 1 and people that were anywhere around this family,

Speaker 1 they completely depended on him. They were like, and they were also a loner family.
So they, aside from the rest of the cult, which was also their, mostly their family, they didn't talk to people.

Speaker 1 They didn't interact. And the people that worked in this hotel said that the children were very quiet.
They didn't speak unless their father said they could speak.

Speaker 1 And they didn't use the pool. They didn't like, they were not loud.

Speaker 1 They didn't giggle and they didn't go to school they were taught in the hotel room by the parents so they didn't go to the caribbean and get their groove back i bet nope this is there's going to be no grooves getting got getting gotten back by the end of this quite the opposite so he kills himself because basically it's like the jig is up and you can't just i'm sorry you just can't stay at hotels and then leave

Speaker 1 Would he have been fine if he had paid the bill? No, because there was other fraud.

Speaker 1 It's just that um the articles i was on murder pedia for the most part on this yeah and everything is pretty vague and it sounds like it's like it's like he he was kind of a problem uh guy but he left his trail city but he had left this trail and it was basically like here's how we can get him okay so it was just unpaid bills and wire fraud out capone get him on tax evasion that's right okay um and also i think he he really was ripping these people off when they would join his cult he was like you know it's like sell your karate studio, give me the money, and you go to Missoula, Montana to spread the word.

Speaker 1 So they're trying to get

Speaker 1 him.

Speaker 1 It's the old chip chop.

Speaker 1 All right. So when Rachel finds out that her husband kills himself,

Speaker 1 she tells the cops, well, we don't have any money. I don't have money to pay for the funeral.

Speaker 1 They realize something's terribly wrong.

Speaker 1 And three days later, on the morning of August 4th,

Speaker 1 they were staying at the suite on the 11th floor of the International Endunes Hotel. And she walked her children out onto the patio

Speaker 1 and either threw or pushed all of her children off of the 11th floor of this hotel. No.
So there were people standing on the street below.

Speaker 1 and screaming at her. So they, so one kid hits and they're like, oh my God.

Speaker 1 And they think, at first, they think it's an accident, and then it's six children, so it just keeps happening, and they're screaming, they're all screaming at her.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 uh, I mean, I, that's part of the fucking crazy, yeah, this is why I didn't want to read it before, but I mean, it's that kind of all I can think of is those people who are, you know, there's pedestrians, there's um, there were guys that were like maintenance guys that were fixing the road or something

Speaker 1 who there's a truck driver

Speaker 1 PTS fucking D. Oh, yeah, that's so traumatic.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And, but, and

Speaker 1 they,

Speaker 1 she's throwing off the little kids, and the older ones are doing it voluntarily. So, it is like a horror movie.
Oh, my God. And then at the end,

Speaker 1 they all start yelling for her to jump.

Speaker 1 Like, they go through so much seeing this and witnessing it and freaking out that they get really angry. They can't feel good about that, too.

Speaker 1 You know, like they have PTSD, but they also have to live with that. And they, and that's not who most of us think we are.
But I understand why at that point, you're like, fuck you.

Speaker 1 Because they're also down where the trees are hitting and they can't do anything. Yes, they're completely powerless.
It's horrifying. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And the thing was, they didn't have to even yell that because that was her plan anyway. And then she jumped off.
Jesus Christ. All of her children

Speaker 1 died except for one.

Speaker 1 And it was Elizabeth, who was 13.

Speaker 1 and she had severe brain injury, and she was in a hospital. They thought she wasn't going to live, um, but then she did, and she

Speaker 1 uh

Speaker 1 got better, you know, enough. They put her in a foster home.
And then, when she turned 18,

Speaker 1 she went back and lived with her uncle, who was still in the cult. So, the Davids were still an existing religious group.
Jesus.

Speaker 1 And she lives with them now, still believes believes that her father is going to come back from the dead. She still believes her father is God

Speaker 1 and believes that everything that happened was exactly what would have happened and says it's what they all wanted. Let's go break her out right now.

Speaker 1 She wants to be there. Now let's set her free.
She.

Speaker 1 I know. I know.
I just am trying to have it.

Speaker 1 It's a solution that won't work. It's awful.
But you're just trying to do something. And I appreciate it.
Yeah, it's such a horrible story. So it's a terrible story.
It's terrible.

Speaker 1 The craziest thing is now they changed the name to the Shiloh Inn. The hotel is still there.

Speaker 1 You can go there. When we do a live show in Utah, guess where we're staying? Not there.
Not fucking there. People, there are people that go there and stay on the 11th floor intentionally.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 There have been reports

Speaker 1 of

Speaker 1 hearing laughter coming from the first floor pool area when no one's around. But we know they weren't, they'd never swam.
Right. But still, maybe it's the idea of they get to have fun now.

Speaker 1 They're good ghosts. As well as a pinball machine in the game room that spontaneously turns on and starts playing.
Don't they do that though?

Speaker 1 To show you how to play. Like, oh, you know, right.
They go into like demo mode. Yeah.

Speaker 1 People believe in ghosts. But it's ghosts.
But it's actually ghosts this time. But it's ghosts.
This one time. This one time.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 yeah, people just hear voices and a lot of people think that this place is haunted. What I think is pretty interesting is

Speaker 1 Danny Elfman

Speaker 1 has always been a frequent visitor of this hotel. Danny Elfman?

Speaker 1 It's he first started going in 1984. That's on Oingo Boingo, right? Yep.
He was touring with Oingo Boingo and he heard the story and stayed on the the 11th floor. He always stays on the 11th floor.

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 1 He wrote Dead Man's Party

Speaker 1 inspired by that hotel. They have a great old movie, if you can find it, called The Forbidden Zone made by Oingo Boingo in the 80s.
That's creepy and fucked up. And I wonder if.

Speaker 1 Maybe it's connected or inspired by. Sure.

Speaker 1 Also, it's believed that he was so fond of his young friends. Oh, because he had ghost experiences when he was staying there.
Dude. So that's like he would go there intentionally.

Speaker 1 I trust a fucking elfman. You trust Elfman? I mean, he wrote The Simpsons theme.
Yeah. Come on.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 He would go to stay there, and he stayed there while he composed the music and lyrics for the

Speaker 1 Nightmare Before Christmas. Fuck.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's amazing.

Speaker 1 You just dropped your paper. I dropped it as if to say at least there was one good thing in that story.
That? Yeah.

Speaker 1 There's that.

Speaker 1 So William, we we owe this all to william this was his this was his hometown murder originally and it it got kicked all the way up to full a full-grown too bad william stopped listening and fucking went on a murder spree when he when you didn't finish his he was so angry he was so mad at me he was so pissed um all right thanks william that was amazing

Speaker 1 All right, we're back. Karen, any case updates? No case updates, but definitely corrections, of course.

Speaker 1 So there were altogether seven children, not six children. That was a copy-paste error for my, of course, very professional and extensive research that I did 45 minutes before we used to record.

Speaker 1 And also, one of the David children, I pronounced his name very strangely. It was actually Joshua.
So it was either like a misspelling or whatever.

Speaker 1 But also, the name of the surviving daughter was not Elizabeth. I'm not going to say her name.
She is, it's unclear where she lives now.

Speaker 1 And she went through such a horrible thing, you know, like

Speaker 1 on a slightly brighter note, iguana dudes of episode 163 is covered on MFM animated, obviously titled Iguanas and Samurai Swords.

Speaker 1 So you can go watch that on the YouTube page, youtube.com slash exactly right media. We just love those iguana guys, don't we? We love to reference them.

Speaker 1 They are, you know, they take up a very large footprint in our culture because they're out on the sidewalk showing off their lizards. Yeah.
And I want, and is it just a 90s thing? I don't know.

Speaker 1 Or 80s, 90s. It feels like a specific 90s thing for sure.
So yes, it was a real

Speaker 1 before the internet and phones. It was a great way to break the ice when you were just kind of standing outside of a restaurant somewhere.
Right.

Speaker 1 Hey, man, I like your goatee and you're iguana and you're iguana's goatee. Yeah.
Let's talk about all this facial hair. So much to talk about.

Speaker 1 Also, I want to say, oh, during the original story, I asked if the Church of latter-day saints has a catchphrase like just do it or i'm loving it which i can't believe i said that so funny and uh it turns out well no organized religion has an official catchphrase wait but it's like what i thought catholics was amen okay ours is like the chosen ones

Speaker 1 the lds church commonly uses the phrase choose the right especially with youth groups but i think later days latter days way better is maybe some of my best work ever like i think you've done some of your most brilliant comedy around the Church of Latter-day Saints wordplay.

Speaker 1 And I don't know why, but isn't that Live It, Love It, Learn to Levitate? Wasn't that off of some story we were telling about a Mormon?

Speaker 1 No, I think it was my birthday, and you were like, What are you going to do this year, Georgia?

Speaker 1 But there's some Mormon stuff going on for me for sure that I, you know, I'm just, I take it so lightly.

Speaker 1 You really do. You'll regret that later, and your 23andMe clone has to work for all Mormons.

Speaker 1 I mean, where I grew up, literally, we were the only Jewish family and there was one Mormon family and that was like it. So like, I don't have a lot of experience there.

Speaker 1 Everyone else was bright orange Christian? Everyone else was wasps.

Speaker 1 Wasps. Waspy.
I was going to say, we have, and it's such a, I think, an indicator of what we do and how we do it. One of the most horrible stories, of course, we've ever talked about.

Speaker 1 Truly, though, the sidebar jokes, some of the funniest, we've been conversationally, I think. I was laughing out loud where I was like, oh, I get why people like us.
I get it. I get it.

Speaker 1 I don't think it's ever mad a little. The people who didn't like us were mad.
Of course.

Speaker 1 But also, they're wrong. So it's okay.
But yeah, we were a lot more lighthearted during the stories back then than we are now. Yes.
We thought the room that we were in had two people in it.

Speaker 1 And the room that we were in had at that time, I believe, 40 million people in it. So we were going to get some detractors and some people who like touristed in and said, you have no right.

Speaker 1 And they're right. They were right.
Yeah. Yeah.
Sure. Yep.
They choose the right. They're like Mormons.
Anyway.

Speaker 1 So now let's get into George's story, the Tylenol poisonings. Oof, one of my favorites.

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Speaker 1 Karen? Yes. Let's go back to Chicago.
Okay. Which we're going to next week.
Yay. In 1982,

Speaker 1 metropolitan area, which is such an 80s term, isn't it? I don't know why. Metropolitan makes it a little bit more.
It's really tall. The buildings are all staggered.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Tall, short, tall, short, tall, short. And it's like, it expands upon it, whatever the fuck.

Speaker 1 This is the time before tamper-proof seals and pills were sold with just a cotton ball tucked underneath the lid.

Speaker 1 So you went and bought aspirin or whatever the fuck and you just opened it and maybe it had been opened before and maybe it hadn't.

Speaker 1 There was no child proofing on it as you opened it and there was no silver foil. None.

Speaker 1 You could open it and then do whatever you wanted and close it back up. It gets a baby if you were old.

Speaker 1 Babies could open it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. This is this is the, this is 82.
So it's before there were like a child.

Speaker 1 What are the things where they can't open the drawers and stuff? You have to child proof your home when you have a baby.

Speaker 1 Yeah. This is before that.
Yeah. When the 80s were like, just eat it all.

Speaker 1 This was when they used to sell baby knives. Remember that? Where there was just like your, you could get your baby a really cute knife that they could just hold.

Speaker 1 Yes, I remember that. They still have mine.
And do you?

Speaker 1 With your initials on it. And two ducks.
Oh. Oh, my God.
That is the cutest baby.

Speaker 1 I have to say, my mom saved it one of my diaper pins. Oh, yeah.
You had, you had safety pins. Safety pins on diapers, cloth diapers and safety pins.
Gross and dangerous.

Speaker 1 The safety pin itself was humongous and so sharp. And cute.
So the baby would be like, I want to play with that.

Speaker 1 What the fuck? How are we, how did we survive? I mean. All right.
So let's talk. Let's start with, I'm going to do it kind of a timeline thing

Speaker 1 because it's like one and a half days of fucking a shit show. Okay.

Speaker 1 So 1982, September 29th, the first thing to happen is that Mary Kellerman, who is a 12-year-old from Elk Grove Village, Illinois, wakes up feeling sick.

Speaker 1 Her parents are like, You can stay home from school. They give her some Tylenol to make her feel better.
She goes in the bathroom to take it. Moments later, she collapses on the floor.

Speaker 1 She's rushed to the hospital.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 1 Sorry, how old was she? She's 12. She's exactly the same age as me.

Speaker 1 Sorry. Because I was just thinking of like, it's 82.
I'm 12. Oh, I thought you meant right now.
You were pretending to be 12.

Speaker 1 Oh my God, what the fuck?

Speaker 1 That's how old I am right now.

Speaker 1 I did get cartered carted over the weekend, so it's cool. Did you?

Speaker 1 And I was like, I know you're joking, but fuck you.

Speaker 1 I we went to button mash, and the guy was carting everybody else, and then he looked at me, and I just shook my head no, and he started laughing and opened the door for me. Brits does that too.

Speaker 1 He he goes, he like gestures a come on, dude. Yeah, it's not, I'm not trying to how good is their food there, by the way, button mash.
Oh, he didn't eat. Oh, it's good.
Okay, sorry, sorry, sorry.

Speaker 1 No, the place is great. Um, she wakes up feeling sick.
Sweet Mary is pronounced dead

Speaker 1 at 9.56 a.m.

Speaker 1 Next comes Adam Janice. He's a 27-year-old poster worker in Arlington Heights.
Takes a sick day, doesn't feel good.

Speaker 1 He picks up his kids from school, stops on the way home at the jewel, which I guess is a thing. It's like their CVS.
Yeah. And gets some Tylenol.

Speaker 1 And he says to his wife, I'm going to take some Tylenol and lay down. A couple minutes later, comes staggering into the kitchen and he dies at 3:15 p.m.

Speaker 1 At 3:45 p.m., Mary, quote, Lynn Reiner, who's 27, is at home in Winfield. She had just given birth to her fourth child.
Oh, yeah, so she's home recuperating, she's not feeling good.

Speaker 1 So, she takes some Tylenol that she had been given and brought home from the hospital after giving birth. Um,

Speaker 1 this is weird shit. We'll talk about it later.
Um,

Speaker 1 she, she, yeah, so she takes those,

Speaker 1 And then moving on to 5 p.m.

Speaker 1 So this woman named

Speaker 1 Nurse Helen Jensen, who is the badass motherfucker of the story. She's a public health nurse for Arlington Heights.
And

Speaker 1 the Janice family, remember earlier, Adam, who was the poster worker, had come in.

Speaker 1 The whole family, the whole Adam family.

Speaker 1 Oh, shit, Elvis is going to vomit. Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 You know, that's welcome to my life.

Speaker 1 Those gross, right? I mean, I had pots. That's all they do.
I know. Okay, so

Speaker 1 the whole Janice family is there. Adam dies, and so they all go back to his house to like, to figure out what they're going to do and start mourning and planning the funeral.

Speaker 1 And Adam's younger brother, Stanley, he has chronic back pains.

Speaker 1 His wife, Teresa, gets him some Tylenol. She comes, she gives him two Tylenol.
She comes back and took two Tylenol as well. She had a headache.
They both go down. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 The brother, they go, what are the chances? They went back to his house where he had fucking fallen.

Speaker 1 6.30 p.m.

Speaker 1 in a store in Lombard, Illinois. Mary McFarlane, a 31-year-old resident of Elmhurst, tells her coworker she has a headache.

Speaker 1 She goes in the back room, takes a cup of Tylenol, and within minutes, she hits the floor.

Speaker 1 8.15 p.m.

Speaker 1 Stanley Janice, who's Adam's brother from earlier, is pronounced dead. 3.15 a.m., Mary McFarlane's pronounced dead.
9.30 in the morning, Mary Reiner is pronounced dead.

Speaker 1 So everyone's fucking taking the shit and dying within hours. At 1.15, Teresa Janice, the wife of Stanley, dead.

Speaker 1 So at 5 o'clock the next day, police discover the body of Paula Prince in her Old Town apartment. Old Town is the town.
The night before, she, so she's a flight attendant.

Speaker 1 The night before she lands, she's a 35-year-old woman.

Speaker 1 She stops at Walgreens because she has a headache to buy some Tylenol. There's a surveillance video of this and some photographs from it, like that you can see online.

Speaker 1 She's not heard from for a couple days. So the cops get sent there.
The bottle of Tylenol is sitting open on her vanity and like she's she steps away and collapsed.

Speaker 1 So Nurse Jensen, who we were talking about, the badass motherfucker, says, I found a bottle of Tylenol and there were six capsules missing and three people were dead.

Speaker 1 In my mind, it had to be something to do with the Tylenol. And of course, there was no protective ceiling on this or any over-the-counter drugs.
They just had cotton tucked in there.

Speaker 1 So I went back to the hospital and we took the bottle with us. And I said, this is the cause.
And of course, nobody would believe me. And I stamped my feet.
They said, oh, no, it couldn't be.

Speaker 1 It couldn't be. Like they had not pieced these things together yet.
But I think once.

Speaker 1 Once the brother and sister-in-law of one of the deceased died in the same home, they realized something was going on. Yeah.

Speaker 1 so the investigator named pichos sees that the tylenol bottles all have the same control numbers on them meaning they're coming from the same plant he lets the medical examiner know

Speaker 1 and the deputy medical examiner named donahue tells him to smell the bottles And he smells inside of them and he smells that telltale sign of cyanide that's almond. What were you going to say?

Speaker 1 Bubble Bubblegum.

Speaker 1 Just kidding.

Speaker 1 Because you seemed so adamant, you lifted your finger. No, I knew, but then I, but I wanted to have fun with it.
Go ahead. So cyanide has a strong smell of almonds or bubblegum.

Speaker 1 Because you know in stone fruit, any kind of pit in anything,

Speaker 1 there is a little bit of cyanide. And if you eat enough,

Speaker 1 yeah, but you couldn't really ever eat enough because it's so hard to eat. You can digest.
And it just breaks down, right?

Speaker 1 Yes, but um, I think it's because I had it, you know, how I know this is: I had um, one of those crazy blenders. Um,

Speaker 1 what's it called?

Speaker 1 Vitamix, where you can stick everything in it, Vitamix, yeah, a Vitamix, and they're saying, like, in apple seeds, yes, or you know, like that, there's cyanide in there, totally, but it's it's a tiny, tiny, tiny trace amount, but there's also tons of vitamins in there, so that when you can throw everything into a blender, you get way more vitamins.

Speaker 1 You know what else uh vitamin or vitamins are in? Vitamins. Oh, yeah, you can just take some vitamins.
Just fucking take some vitamins. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Not related, kind of related. I once, never mind.
Okay.

Speaker 1 I once ate watermelon rind to make myself throw up so I didn't have to go to Hebrew school. Oh, did it work? It did.
Oh, good.

Speaker 1 And here we are.

Speaker 1 If only you had studied your Hebrew better. Really? I mean, what would have happened? I don't know.
Married a nice

Speaker 1 Hebrew?

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 I mean, we can go deep into this shit anymore. No, let's not.
Let's not do it. So he smells almonds.
And the medical examiner said that

Speaker 1 how lucky he was because only 50% of the or half the population can actually smell the almonds and cyanide, which is terrifying and amazing, right?

Speaker 1 And it turns out that the Tylenol pills were laced with potassium cyanide at a level toxic enough to provide thousands of fatal doses. So each one had thousands.

Speaker 1 So the reason they fucking hit the ground immediately is there was so much. It was like they were overdosed.
Way overdosed. Jesus.
So at 3.15, Mary McFarland dies.

Speaker 1 9.30 in the morning, Mary Reiner dies. Did I already say that? I might have.

Speaker 1 And so the pills had all come from different plants, supposedly. and had bought it, had been bought at different Chicago stores.

Speaker 1 So the police thought that a single person had bought all the pills at different places, tampered with them, and then returned them to the different stores.

Speaker 1 So on Tuesday, October 5th, which is not shortly after, Johnson ⁇ Johnson recalls all Tylenol products nationwide. I remember this.
Do you remember this? Oh, yeah. I was 12.
It was on the news.

Speaker 1 It was the craziest thing in the world.

Speaker 1 In our house, I think my parents bought Bayer. Yeah, that was

Speaker 1 before.

Speaker 1 They were like, it was just a whole I mean, I remember standing in the living room and watching it on the news.

Speaker 1 And these are, so everyone everyone should know, these are the capsules that you get that you can open up, and there's powder inside of them.

Speaker 1 These are, that's what these are. So it's not like, you know, the, the like gel caps you get today or anything.
Like, so anyone could open them up, whatever they want in them.

Speaker 1 There's no seal on any of this. So.
And there was also a very famous commercial at the time and maybe a little bit earlier for contact cold medicine. Yeah.
And in the commercial,

Speaker 1 some fingers pull apart a contact pill. What? And all the little beads inside the pill fall out, and then it talks about all the benefits of this

Speaker 1 medicine. It's like, here, look what you can do.
I mean, it's it feels to me like that, that was it was in the consciousness, yeah, if not exactly.

Speaker 1 Well, someone who is fucked up and evil sees like some one person puts that together, you know, like the majority of people who see that don't fucking

Speaker 1 think how easy it is to fucking poison people, right?

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 Johnson and Johnson recalls all Tylenol products. Uh, people fucking lose their minds and panic.

Speaker 1 31 million bottles valued at more than 100 million dollars of Tylenol products are removed from shelves. Nationwide.

Speaker 1 Nationwide. And Chicago police go through the streets with loudspeakers warning residents of the dangers of taking Tylenol.
Oh my God.

Speaker 1 And the thing about this is Johnson Johnson was totally on board with this.

Speaker 1 They, they were the ones who were like yes you know because this was back when people cared about human beings right when they were like how much money is that going to make me lose if i recall this car it's we'll just pay the it's not worth the lawsuit yeah it's not worth it i don't need another boat no And if the lawsuit happens, our insurance will just pay it.

Speaker 1 But also, have you ever, I don't know if there's anything else that's ever happened like this where it's like recalls on cars are one thing where you're like, yeah, take your car in or whatever. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But like, I don't remember anything like this ever happening. Like a panic of a thing that everyone has in their home.
And then no one used again for years and years and years.

Speaker 1 And they knew that was going to happen. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 all right.

Speaker 1 I wrote such an 80s thing that, oh, the

Speaker 1 driving through the streets with loudspeakers. That was such an 80s thing.
That's like Blues Brothers.

Speaker 1 Vote for mayor, whatever the fuck. Yep.
It's, yeah, back to the future. Yeah.
Goldie. Goldie.
Goldie, Goldie. Mayor goldie yeah uh i'm gonna be mayor okay

Speaker 1 so all right so i i i wrote this whole thing about the guy who they suspected was

Speaker 1 who they still there it's still suspected he's

Speaker 1 no one was ever arrested okay no one was ever arrested a man writes a letter to tylenol manufacturer in october 1982 so like a month or two later demanding one million dollars to quote stop the killings the letters are traced back to a tax consultant named James, whose name I don't want to say because

Speaker 1 he's never, he was never arrested and he was never convicted. And I'm scared of people.

Speaker 1 Well, and also if it's such a nightmare because if just by chance it really wasn't him, but then everybody thinks it was, then that's horrifying. Totally.

Speaker 1 And I wrote all these things that were like, it was clearly him, but then something happened the moment you got to my apartment and I had a fucking

Speaker 1 study.

Speaker 1 So this guy James had been charged in 1978 in Kansas City of the murder, of a murder after police found the remains of one of his former clients in his attic. Oh.

Speaker 1 Attic. Yeah, attic.

Speaker 1 Sounds so wrong to me. But the charges were dropped.
It's attic. Attic.

Speaker 1 There's no D. At attic.
There you are. Attic.
Did I say it right?

Speaker 1 Now it makes no sense to me. We've said it too many times.
Attic. Attic.
Attic. I mean, attic.
When you do it on the stage. Attic.

Speaker 1 No one says it like that, though. Attic.
Up in the attic.

Speaker 1 Okay. Up in the attic.
No tea.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 I just can't.

Speaker 1 Charges are dropped after a judge rules that the police search of his home was illegal. So like, motherfucker.

Speaker 1 Wait, so they find a body, but it's still they vacate the yep they went in without a search warrant a judge is like sorry yeah you can't do that oh so when he so they they trace this uh

Speaker 1 this letter saying he wants a million back to this dude james and james gives them a detailed account of how the killer might have operated and described how someone could buy medicine, use a special method to add cyanide to the capsules and return them to store shelves.

Speaker 1 Like he tells them how it could be done.

Speaker 1 But he thinks he says he's innocent. And what actually he was doing was when he asked for the 1 million, he gave the bank information for a former employer and he wanted to embarrass that man

Speaker 1 and send the money to his bank account and like frame him for it. Oh.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But he is, they don't think it's him, but he's charged with extortion and sentenced to 20 years in prison just for that fucking letter.

Speaker 1 Released in 95. Oh, God, is this getting boring? Okay.

Speaker 1 They reopened the investigation in February 2009. They searched his fucking house.
They don't think it's him. There's not enough evidence to charge him.
Okay.

Speaker 1 But here's where this gets interesting and where I fucking last left off.

Speaker 1 Two words for you, Ted Kaczynski. One more word.
Unabomber.

Speaker 1 So the Unibomber has some weird connections to this

Speaker 1 that I really fucking love. And it's so far-fetched and crazy, but

Speaker 1 I love this shit.

Speaker 1 So I looked at a map of where all the locations were in Chicago, and the map that most made sense led back to where Ted Kaczynski's family is from.

Speaker 1 It was within 20 minutes

Speaker 1 of the tampering sites at the epicenter of the fucking tampering sites. This is where his family's from.
Yeah, all the lines lead back to fucking

Speaker 1 the parents' house. And in the in that year, 1982, Kaczynski's bombs were calculated to commit mass and indiscriminate murder.

Speaker 1 He had let a bomb off in 1980 on an airline and a 1981 firebomb at the University of Utah. And in 1982, a firebomb at the UC Berkeley.
So he was active as fuck at this time.

Speaker 1 And his family is from 20 minutes of where all of these fucking

Speaker 1 places where they were bought. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And he had stated his motive was a desire to destroy the public's faith in the technological industrial system. And in his manifesto, he expressed a dislike for the manufacturer of drugs and pills.

Speaker 1 The Unibomber said that? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So yeah.

Speaker 1 So we're done here. No, we're not.
We know. Okay.
Okay, but want to hear something even cooler that I fucking love.

Speaker 1 This is so cool. And I had to, I had to check a lot of fucking,

Speaker 1 I had a, I had a dig for this information. And it didn't, I mean, this was hours of research before I found this information.

Speaker 1 This is from unizod.com, U-N-A-Z-O-D.com, which specifically highlights the link between the Unibomber and the Zodiac killer. Oh, I know, which is like, what? But it's also like, what?

Speaker 1 So the Unabomber

Speaker 1 has an obsession with wood, specifically. I know.

Speaker 1 Two of his victims were Percy Wood and Leroy Wood Bearson.

Speaker 1 And the founders of Johnson and Johnson Company were named Robert Wood Johnson and James Wood Johnson.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry. That's crazy, right? Or am I being? Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. So

Speaker 1 I don't know. I just think he did it.

Speaker 1 They think he's giving a clue to his location. This is a thing he does is like give weird clues and like how the Zodiac killer does as well.

Speaker 1 And then

Speaker 1 there was also a

Speaker 1 Tylenol murder in Sheridan, Wyoming.

Speaker 1 And this was

Speaker 1 like 15 minutes from Kaczynski's house before all this happened.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't know. It just fucking, it all adds up to this guy to fucking Ted Kaczynski.
It's Ted Kaczynski. So wait, the other, but the other guy you believe was just trying to embarrass his boss.

Speaker 1 He was definitely a crook and a con man. And initially I was like, clearly this is the guy.
But when I started reading more into this, it doesn't,

Speaker 1 there's no MO of the Tylenol murders that makes sense unless they were focusing on one specific victim and trying to hide it by killing a bunch of other people.

Speaker 1 But none of that adds up to the actual people who got killed. There's nobody that they can pinpoint.
Whereas Ted Kaczynski, clearly, it's like, it's all kind of laid out there. Yeah.

Speaker 1 The motive is that he was an anarchist, insane person who wanted to fuck companies and fuck the government. And whoever got in the way and whatever the victims were were just par for the course.

Speaker 1 Well, because he was trying to seed like that panic and that like basic sabotage. Unrest.
Yeah. Totally.
And so there's a lot of weird, weird,

Speaker 1 like weird similarities.

Speaker 1 And also, I mean, I know that the fucking Zodiac killer shit sounds weird, but there's a lot of, there's a lot of instances of when he was in the time and the place, and there's evidence of him in these places and times.

Speaker 1 Ted Kaczynski. Yeah, when Zodiac was active.
Wow. I know.

Speaker 1 I saw. And that's when Georgia went crazy.

Speaker 1 You were on the internet for 12 hours and all of a sudden you're like. And the other thing is that Ted Kaczynski is also a bigfoot

Speaker 1 which is gonna sound weird when i first say it tell me more but there is so there's this photo of the woman who was uh the woman who was a um

Speaker 1 an airline a stewardess there's she picks up her medic her tylenol she's a headache there's a man in the aisle on the surveillance camera looking at her directly no and he has receding hairline and a beard which both fucking both dudes ted kaczynski and this other guy both act like that they both look like that.

Speaker 1 It looks more like Ted Kaczynski to me, honestly.

Speaker 1 But he's someone who would claim responsibility for it. So it's kind of weird.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So in May 83, Congress approved. Bless you.

Speaker 1 Do you want some Tylenol?

Speaker 1 Are you okay? I'm just going to lay down for a second and here.

Speaker 1 X is for eyes.

Speaker 1 Button nose for for eyes.

Speaker 1 Okay. Congress enacts the fucking Tylenol bill.
Everyone has to fucking. Was it called the Tylenol Bill? Oh.
In 83, they have to, you have to pull shit off of your fucking pills before you take them.

Speaker 1 In 89, the FDA sets national requirements for all over-the-counter products to be tamper-resistant. So that's the why.
That's that's the why.

Speaker 1 You've always been looking for that why. Here it is.
And here it is, the why.

Speaker 1 So, but there's no, no, there's nobody. It's just a bunch of people got fucking killed from taking a fucking aspirin.

Speaker 1 And there's insufficient evidence to charge anyone.

Speaker 1 And no new or promising leads as of 2015. I, there's nothing.
I looked for everything. There's nothing new since then.

Speaker 1 You know what's awful about that is the panic, how horrible, like those cops must have been going crazy. And like those detectives, like it was.

Speaker 1 They had to be everywhere at once. It's like, it's not one victim in one place.
It's like, and basically in all these neighborhoods around metropolitan Chicago, one little dropping.

Speaker 1 So, like, clearly, the person who did this is in this area, and you can't find them. And what I always think about is how awful it must be for those cops for weeks to go by.

Speaker 1 And the more they keep taking people off the case and keep doing it, and like, suddenly there's five people on this case when there used to be a hundred. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 yeah, that's what are they going to do? Yeah. There's nothing you can do.

Speaker 1 And when your leads dry up, it's just like, oh, and there's no, um, it's not like people were like doing something to a tamper-proof package.

Speaker 1 It's like they suddenly realize anyone could be doing this at any time to any product. It could be any of the family members of the people who died.

Speaker 1 It could be any of the coworkers of the people whose, whose fucking relatives died. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It could be some rando. To me, it makes the most sense that it's some fucking anarchist fuck the government.
It makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 1 Dude, who sends, who sends in the mail bombs to blow up in people's faces yeah i know this sounds crazy but the wood he was obsessed with wood and all things wood

Speaker 1 and the john when i saw the johnson and johnson's middle name was wood

Speaker 1 i lost my mind but when you say when you were saying he was obsessed with all things wood

Speaker 1 do you you said then you gave the example of the names but was he also was it like other things like yeah there were a lot of weird weird like wood types and trees and like really weird like he he was really into like uh earth wind and fire

Speaker 1 uh like in the same way the zodiac had his um what's it called the letter the like the um

Speaker 1 the lettering oh oh the the puzzle that he the puzzles yeah ted kacin or something cryptogram ted kaczynski left a lot of clues in the things he did on purpose okay to kind of fuck with people and they liked to see it and wood was one of his things oh my god

Speaker 1 so they were this in this um and he lived out in the in that weird cabin yeah he did yeah and which is by 15 minutes from where the first guy who died of a cyanide fucking poisoning from tile from tylenol died you know what case closed i'm sorry i'm sorry and i just want to go ahead and again give shout outs to unizod

Speaker 1 because

Speaker 1 oh yeah these dudes i mean i would i would there's nothing in any of the news reports that connect these things.

Speaker 1 There's, there's also two cops who got poisoned the night before any of this started because they found boxes of Tylenol

Speaker 1 from a manufacturer with powder in the middle. They rubbed the powder on their fingers and they got sick,

Speaker 1 which makes it seem like it didn't actually, the guy didn't just go into fucking drugstores and pull this. Like he actually had a connection to the manufacturer,

Speaker 1 which, of course, Johnson and Johnson wouldn't want to admit.

Speaker 1 I mean, and also, what if you were the PR person for Johnson and Johnson or for like that product specifically? Your life is like now just constant living. That is a, I mean, obviously

Speaker 1 an incredible tragedy and just like a random, awful, people dropping dead is just the worst, obviously. Totally.
But then on top of that.

Speaker 1 you have to get out in front of like the worst PR nightmare kind of next to like the Exxon Valdez or something where it's just like

Speaker 1 all of this is just massive

Speaker 1 tragedy thinking about how many you know how many people who are 30 and under who listen to this who don't know any of these fucking references we're making well they can look it up

Speaker 1 I mean what we can't fucking carry the world on our goddamn backs we can't be everything for any millennial every millennial they if they want to they'll find out about it

Speaker 1 okay

Speaker 1 it's pretty fucking cool right it's great I you know what's super weird I thought the I thought the Tylenol poisonings i remember reading something somewhere where it was a husband and wife there was a woman who ended up shooting two people who they suspected could be she was in that area at the time she was very mentally ill oh okay and they looked into her and her husband but the guy the other guy i mentioned his wife also might have been they suspected was complicit in it but i it there was no there was never anything tying them back and don't you wonder about like when they pulled those tylenol bottles from those those fucking houses, like the fucking fingerprints that could have been on them that then were ruined because everyone touched them?

Speaker 1 That's right.

Speaker 1 This nurse, this nurse, though, man. They didn't know.
She knew. Fucking high fives to her.

Speaker 1 High fives to nurses who are the ones that, you know, they're the, they're, they're the brains behind it all. They're the badass motherfuckers of the medical fucking world.

Speaker 1 Bamph. I want you to get that put on the back of a leather vest and then just ride your motorcycle all around town.
Doing it. It's a moped.
Is that okay? Okay. But it's not, it's fake leather.

Speaker 1 Is that all right? Yeah. As long as you gun the engine and stuff.
This has been a wonderful episode. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, in terms of tragedy.

Speaker 1 I'm sweating.

Speaker 1 Karen, what's one good thing that happened to you this week? Fuck, I know.

Speaker 1 I know. I like that we don't think about this because it has to be something.
Boom, boom, boom. Think about it.
What is it?

Speaker 1 No, don't. What's one good thing that's happened this week? I mean, it's been a tough one.

Speaker 1 Um, and it will continue to be. Uh,

Speaker 1 I guess,

Speaker 1 um, it has to be different than my

Speaker 1 anything I've said already. One good thing, why don't you go first,

Speaker 1 you fucking asshole?

Speaker 1 Oh, no, oh my god, okay, ow. Um, I guess

Speaker 1 Jesus Christ, yeah, right. All I can think about is food.
Oh, well, that's good. That's valid.
Oh, oh, Westworld.

Speaker 1 Uh-huh. That's a good show.
That's helped me.

Speaker 1 Yep, okay. I see.
Nothing. There's nothing.
Oh, Westworld counts. Okay.
What? Did you think of another one? No. I mean, tattoos that people are getting of my favorite murder shit.
Oh, that's fun.

Speaker 1 Mine would be the show that I did last night at Largo

Speaker 1 that was really awesome. And it was me, Blank Patch,

Speaker 1 it was Pat and Oswald's night. So it was Pat and Oswald and friends, Bobcat Goldwaite, and then Fred Armison was just hanging out because he was in town.
So I had him come on stage.

Speaker 1 Oh, first of all, I should say this. My set started.
They introduced me. This one woman started screaming.
No. And then as the applause died down, she screamed that murderino so loudly,

Speaker 1 like so loudly. And i was like

Speaker 1 you've had seven beers like it was one of those kind of things where it was like she didn't know i was on the show because they don't ever um advertise who's doing it oh that's cool so i think she was just like so delighted i don't mean to accuse her of being drunk but it seems like she was um it was me and karen it was oh my god that was so supportive

Speaker 1 it was really funny though she was really excited uh but then i as i told you at the end of my set i had fred come out and pretend he was my comedy coach And we just did a bit that we didn't even, it wasn't even like we made, we just said that's what we're going to do.

Speaker 1 And then we just kind of improv it and it was really funny. That's amazing.
It made me feel much better. I wish I had been there.
Next time.

Speaker 1 Next time, you'll tell me. I wish I knew about it.
Well, you can't ever get into Largo shows. Like,

Speaker 1 I can't ever, or

Speaker 1 other people can't ever. Oh, well, yeah, I just never think of inviting people because it's, they're always so.
I'm kidding. I can't get in to anything.
Well, what I realize now is I can get you in.

Speaker 1 I'm like, where are you?

Speaker 1 That's why I don't ask you to come anyway.

Speaker 1 If you guys would go to iTunes in your sadness and grief and just fucking leave us a review, right? Maybe that might help. It might make you feel better.
Maybe it'll make you feel better.

Speaker 1 Thank you guys for listening and being fucking cool people. And you know what? Stay sexy.
And don't get murdered.

Speaker 1 Bye. Elvis, want a cookie?

Speaker 1 You want a cookie?

Speaker 1 Cookie? He said yes.

Speaker 1 May

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, so

Speaker 1 horrible story. Do you have updates on the Tylenol poisonings? It is such a horrible story.
And of course, I love it even more because it still remains unsolved. It feels so solvable to me.

Speaker 1 And I am almost convinced it's Ted Kaczynski still. But there are a couple of recent developments.

Speaker 1 In November 2024, 2024, there was a collaboration between law enforcement and a biotech firm in Texas, and they have hope that access to new DNA technology could solve this case, which seems very likely to me.

Speaker 1 Unless, of course, everyone takes it down, takes their

Speaker 1 time. Never mind.
This is the biotech that, like,

Speaker 1 people, it's like you want to know who your relatives are and you want to help solve cold cases, but then BlackRock will sell your identity to the outer space or whatever.

Speaker 1 Okay, well, in an alternative 2025, where things are okay, this is getting solved. Yeah, Yeah, that's true.
So, whoever's there right now, please like send us a fucking telepathic message.

Speaker 1 Please tell us it's going to be okay. James Lewis, one of the main suspects in the poisonings, died in July of 2023.

Speaker 1 And the badass Helen Jensen, the now-retired nurse who figured out it was the Tylenol that was killing people, which is so incredible. And she did it so fast the same day.
Yes.

Speaker 1 She prevented so many people from dying. Yes, she did.

Speaker 1 She told the AP that she hoped that Lewis's death would be the final coda to a tragedy that has haunted her and the victims' families, of course, for four decades.

Speaker 1 She said, quote, his death is a conclusion, not necessarily the conclusion everyone wanted, but it is an end. I'm 86 now, and I'm glad I got to see the end before I die, end quote.

Speaker 1 So it seems like she probably thinks that he. he did it.
Right. It would be so horrible if he didn't, though.
That, you know, that thing of just like, then just the name goes around.

Speaker 1 And yeah, but he, I mean, he, he pointed at himself about it. I mean, who knows what was going on with that guy? Right.

Speaker 1 There's also a documentary, a CNN original series documentary called How It Really Happened, Tylenol Murders, that you can go check out that will tell you the whole story.

Speaker 1 If you didn't think I did a great job of it, which is like fine. I think you did a wonderful job.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 I think this was a wonderful episode.

Speaker 1 Originally. entitled In Arrears, which was about somebody working at the WGA who helped me with my union payments that I was in arrears on, which means.
Because in arrears means debt. You're in debt.

Speaker 1 Behind. Behind.
Got it. Yeah, you're.

Speaker 1 Never heard it. You owe some payments.
You're in arrears. But if we were naming it today, I do think it's a good one because it taught me that word and I appreciate that.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Maybe today it should be, are you an iguana dude? One of the great lines of Georgia's of all time. Thank you.
There's also dry cry because I can't cry.

Speaker 1 So you offered the suggestion that I dry cry, which is a, I can totally do. It's a great idea.
Yeah. Just get your face going and then see what happens.

Speaker 1 Also, 25 Davids is not a bad name, either for this episode or for a band. I love it.

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh. I told you this at least three times before, but there was graffiti on the highway overpass in Sacramento that I used to drive by all the time that said too many Daves, and it was a ba