478 - Briefcase Challenge

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Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder.

That's Georgia Hardstar.

That's Karen Kilgarif.

This is the podcast we've been doing for 9.3 years.

Yeah, that's so true.

Most people do seven

years bail or podcasts.

Seven podcasts.

Yeah, yeah.

Do you think anything has changed?

How have you, how have you changed at all in the past nine years?

What has changed?

It's a real business.

It's a business that we have to do in a business-like manner.

It is a business setting.

I'm wearing a business dress from the 70s.

Yes, it is to do business.

That's right.

Our 80s, probably.

How did it feel to do business in a dress like that?

Powerful.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's like a power play to this dress and to dressing like a business lady.

Yeah.

And having like a, not a suitcase.

Briefcase?

Briefcase.

I don't have one, but that would be great.

When you get one.

When I get to that level.

Lock it down.

Once I get to the the level of briefcase, I remember my dad coming home from work when I was a kid and like go in his briefcase and smell it.

And there'd be all these like

paperwork.

Like it was just exciting.

Dad's briefcase.

Dad's briefcase.

What was Marty doing when he had a briefcase?

He worked at...

Century 21.

He was like a real estate salesman guy.

He was a salesman.

So we'd come home from these business trips and we'd open the briefcase and there'd be candy bars for us in it.

Oh, yeah.

And it was like, fuck yeah.

That's kind of funny because that just made me realize that there was a part of me that was disappointed that my dad did not have a nine to like, you know, when you're a kid and you just think your life is supposed to be exactly like the kids at school.

You were disappointed that your father was a hero firefighter and it was boring to you.

It was like, why doesn't he come home with a tie on?

Yeah.

Why doesn't he?

So at some point he was going to get a business degree.

He was going to finish like his.

unfinished college.

Yeah, yeah.

So he was going to get a business degree.

And so I would go in and look at his homework.

And the example from his homework was something about opening a shoe store.

And I was like, you're going to open a shoe store downtown?

And he was like, it's not a real shoe store.

And I was like, what kind of shoes can we get?

And I was so excited to be like, that's what normal people do.

Yeah, but then they don't work.

My dad opened a hot dog franchise in Lake Arrowhead in the 80s.

And guess what?

It's not there anymore.

I mean, it's just one of the many things you can do.

restaurant business, you can be a realtor, you can be all these things.

You can also be a civil servant and just leave leave the house for 48 to 72 hours, a couple times a week, and roll back in.

But the point is you have a briefcase.

And that's the most important part.

For some reason, that is what adulthood means.

Yes.

That signals.

It sensibility.

It signals something.

How about I make a challenge to you?

Okay.

On the next episode of My Favorite Murder.

And people that watch the video of this will be able to see it.

Uh-oh.

You and I bring in our briefcases that we're going to start using at work.

Okay.

Find a briefcase challenge.

Briefcase challenge.

Let's do it.

See you out of the closet in Atwater Village.

Literally the first thing I thought of.

Yeah, they'll have a briefcase.

You can't buy it online.

Nope.

Can it be a purse that looks like a briefcase?

It's whatever you would like to go along with your empowerment.

You know, this is my work empowerment clothing, which means you can't make me dress up.

Uh-huh.

I am so powerful at work that I literally wear the same up boots because I can.

Every single disgusting thing.

See, my power move with that in that vein is just don't come in.

I just feel so powerful that I just don't come in when I don't want to.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a choice.

All right.

Briefcast.

Briefcase next episode.

I think it would be fun.

Okay.

Let's do it.

Because I also have now an exact briefcase in my mind that I'm going to try to find.

Of course, you do.

I can see it.

Is it Oxblood leather?

I knew it.

How did I know that?

That's what it's supposed to be.

Someone else's initials on it.

Great.

Yes.

A little worn and kind of bent up at the bottom.

Are we both now trying to find an oxblood briefcase or was yours different?

That's what comes to mind when one thinks of 80s women's.

We've gotten so far off the deep end on briefcases here.

This is the deep end.

We should have named, if we had named this podcast the deep end, we would have never gotten in as much trouble as we used to.

Or as much money.

Okay, guys,

take the good, you take the bad, you take them both.

And there you have the facts of podcasting.

That's right.

Speaking of, what a weird coincidence that last week I mentioned to you Valerie the Dachshund, who had gotten lost on Kangaroo Island in Australia.

Not even lost.

Kangaroo Island.

I don't think she was lost.

She was fucking

thriving and living her best life.

She escaped the clutches of capitalism.

You know what I mean?

Yes, I did.

Like the clutches of like conformity.

And she was like, absolutely not.

Just running.

Running free.

Running free and being taken care of by animals on that island.

Totally.

It's going to be a movie.

So she was on her own for 529 days.

And then I mentioned her.

And then like two days later, she got found.

She was on her own for two years.

Yeah.

Basically.

Don't see a picture of her.

She looks really happy.

She looks really proud of herself.

She's a little fucking busy.

She should be.

Well, she should be.

Very bad girl.

Very bad girl.

But try telling her that.

So much footage of her just running.

I know.

And then like night cam footage of her like eating the food that's left for her being like, fuck you.

But they say animals were grooming her because she looks so good.

She's not all fucked up looking.

So they were like, animals on that island were definitely taking care of Valerie.

Valerie.

What a sweetheart.

Well, I'm happy for that.

So good job, everyone.

Good job, everyone.

Good job, everyone, including and mostly Valerie.

Yeah.

But now we have to go into one of the most dramatic corrections corner ever.

Another Australian issue.

Everyone in Australia, listeners, I want you to know, and maybe I'm wrong about this too, but here in the U.S., we say emu, right?

Yeah.

Emu

just sounds like a meme.

Australians, we understand it's the way you say it.

We're not arguing that anybody should say it.

Say it the way you grew up hearing it in your region.

Right.

Because to us, to me, I'll say.

Me too.

Saying emu sounds like you went to London for a semester and now you're back with your beret and your different pronunciation.

Oh, sorry.

We kiss on both cheeks.

I forgot that we're not.

Oh my God.

I spent the two weeks in Paris.

Yeah.

So I say emu.

We say emu here.

But also completely understand.

But you can't expect us to say it because that would be like if we were like, oh, the aluminium foil.

Right.

Or, oh, you know what my mum Janet said?

She told me like, blah, blah, blah.

No, I'm not going to do that.

We can't.

It's, because then you'll yell at us for that.

No, you won't.

You don't yell at us, but you know.

Well, and also the yelling is the show.

This really is the show.

We do the yelling.

We fuck up so that you have something to engage with.

Something real to yell about that doesn't make you feel horrible.

Also, how many podcasts have you listened to where someone is doing something weird and it drives you insane the entire episode?

Yeah.

That's podcasts.

Yeah.

That's true.

There's so many of them to choose from.

No, let's go on to the next correction.

Okay.

Which is that I referred to Eben Moss Bacharach's role in the bear as him being the brother in the bear.

And I knew that he was called cousin.

And yet I just let it go right past my head.

Who cares?

Because it's personal conversation.

Also, I watched the first season, have not yet watched the second season, definitely plan to.

Stressful.

So fucking stressful.

So stressful.

The first season episode where they forgot to turn the thing off and the orders just started coming through.

I've watched all three seasons.

I don't think I can handle the cortisol levels that it brings for season four.

For real.

I just don't think I can do that.

Some of us already have that cortisol coursing through our veins.

Yeah.

I have that still from when I worked in restaurants.

I don't need it again.

You have the same thing with writer's rooms.

It's like, why would I watch a TV show about the most stressful time in my life?

Yeah.

Right.

So no.

It's a no thanks.

But not to say we don't love that show.

Oh, yeah.

Conversational details.

You'll get me on that every time.

And that's okay.

Yeah.

That's why we're here.

That's why we have briefcase.

And also, that's what that'll be.

That'll go on our notes in our briefcases and we'll fix it.

That's exactly what will go in our briefcase.

Because listen, there are certain parts of Ireland that I'm scared to even discuss or talk about.

We all are.

When I hear people talking about dairy and remember that I called it legendary

because I intentionally was like, I better look at a map to get this right.

And how

maps are wrong.

Even maps are wrong.

Maps do not reflect

cultural requirements.

Significance and requirements.

Speaking of cultural significance and requirements, we have a podcast network.

It's called Exactly Right Media.

Here are some highlights.

And this week on The Knife Off Record, Hannah shares the wild true story of Osama Elatari, a flashy con man turned jailhouse informant who helped take down a serial killer.

That's so fascinating.

Cannot wait to listen to that.

Also, she and Pesha discuss the book There Is No Ethan by Anna Akbari, which is part memoir, part explosive window into the mind of a catfisher.

They are doing the most fascinating stuff over there.

Great show, great podcasters.

Yep.

And speaking of our newer shows, on Dear Movies I Love You, Millie and Casey are talking about the magic of mockumentaries and the iconic film Waiting for Guffman.

The best.

They're also joined by the hilarious Arden Miran to talk dirty dancing.

And Millie almost kicks Casey off the podcast this week.

Things get so heated.

So make sure you tune into Dear Movies I Love You.

On the most dramatic Dear Movies I Love You yet.

This podcast will kill you.

We'll be doing a two-part series on raw milk starting this week because what is the deal with raw milk?

The Aarons kick off the series with a look at how dangerous milk was before pasteurization, how Louis Pasteur changed the game, the rise of anti-pasteurizers, and how today's raw milk movement ties into a bigger anti-science agenda.

So definitely listen to that.

You'd be like, hey, are you interested in milk?

And I'd be like, no.

And then you read that paragraph and be like, yeah, I want to know everything.

That's what they do.

They make milk.

interesting.

Also, with all of the deregulation that's happening under this administration, we are going to need to know this stuff because it's about to start getting seriously dangerous.

Absolutely.

Speaking of dangerous, on Ghosted by Roz Hernandez, Roz smashes a ghostly mirror and unleashes Monet Exchange.

They talk past lives, Bigfoot, and Joan Crawford's extremely haunted house.

Hell yeah.

If you love Monet Exchange, which we all do, you have to go listen to this episode of Ghosted.

Also, Nick Terry has brought us a brand new episode of MFM Animated.

It's called Bumper Boats.

It's based on MFM Minisode 426, and it is now available on our YouTube channel.

So please go over to our YouTube channel.

You will find full episodes of this podcast.

It's called My Favorite Murder, full episodes of Buried Bones, and much, much more over on youtube.com/slash exactly right media.

Please give it a follow.

It helps us.

And closing out with some beautiful and huge news from the merch world, our SSDGM necklace has been restocked.

So we put up this gorgeous gold necklace.

It's designed by a listener, which is so exciting.

So cool.

Yeah, Nina Palacio.

And her company is called Civil Collective, C-I-V-A-L.

It's a gorgeous gold necklace with a beautiful shiny chain.

And it says, stay sexy and don't get murdered on the little pendant.

It has MFM on the back.

It has M-F on the back.

So cute.

This necklace sold out in hours when we first put it up.

So go ahead to exactlyrightstore.com and get yours before it's gone.

Ooh, it's like heavy.

Yeah.

It's very high quality and I really love Nina's actual like font and design on that pendant is so pretty.

Oh, I did it over my headphones.

Oh, perfect.

Does that work?

Yeah.

Did you give a little turn to the duna?

Dun na na na na na na na.

Yeah.

Just hold your shirt up in this hole.

Okay, like that.

Yeah.

Now there's your power right there.

We got the sex appeal for this episode.

Boom, boom.

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Knowing San Francisco is our passion.

Discover more at sfchronicle.com.

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Hey, Oakland, California.

My Favorite Murder is back on tour.

Join us at the Paramount Theater on Thursday, October 2nd.

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Head to myfavoratemurder.com to buy tickets and your VIP package while supplies last.

Goodbye.

You're first.

I'm first.

Okay, so I got the idea for this story from a post on the really awesome Instagram account at RealHistory Uncovered.

Nice.

And they're always just putting out fascinating stories I had never heard before.

It breaks my heart.

I follow a lot of TikTok accounts like that too, where I'm like.

Can someone please teach me what has happened in the past that's of interest and like in a way that will engage me?

And there's so many.

That's what we do.

Kind of.

I mean, the people that are like historians.

Oh, yeah.

They're like, this is why you will love learning about this.

About milk.

Totally.

I agree.

Okay, so today's story, Karen, it's going to sound like it comes out of like Victorian England.

Great.

But it doesn't.

It's actually more recent.

Oh, that's bad, right?

No, it's so.

I mean, it's just like so.

dated.

If I didn't tell you what year this happened in, you'd think it was from like the 1800s or 1700s.

But it's not.

It's from the 1970s.

It's about a serial poisoner who is responsible for at least three deaths, but possibly allegedly several more.

It's a really frustrating case because many people look the other way or even enabled this person, ultimately costing several innocent lives.

This is the story of the teacup poisoner.

Hmm.

Sounds like an episode of Dr.

Perot.

No?

Mr.

Perot?

Perot.

Poirot.

Perot.

Yeah.

There we go.

Yeah.

Dr.

Poirot.

Dr.

Perot.

Yeah.

Oh, that's my OBGYN.

Okay, the main source for this story are a documentary called Murder in a Teacup.

Clever.

And reporting from the Daily Telegraph, and the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes.

So it is May of 1971.

Picture it.

Guess how old I am?

Zero.

One.

Oh, right.

My first birthday.

Oh, yeah.

Right.

Thanks so much.

Happy first birthday.

Thanks so much.

It was great.

I had a really good time.

We're in the village of Bovingdon.

Bovingdon.

Bovingdon.

Yeah, please say it the way that you're doing.

Bovingdon, right outside of London.

It's Bovingdon.

Bovingdon.

This small village is home to a business called John Hadland.

That's the name of the business, which manufactures highly technical camera equipment.

It's a smallish firm with about 80 employees.

That's a big company, right?

John Haglund, I bet, had a really nice briefcase.

I bet he did.

Yeah.

Many of those employees have worked there for decades.

It's just like a small town with a nice little fucking business in it.

It's a very close-knit environment, is what I'm trying to say.

I get you.

An employee named Bob Eagle comes down with a mysterious illness.

Now, Bob oversees the company's storeroom, and he's 60 years old.

Up until now, Bob had been completely healthy, but now he's having stomach cramps, diarrhea, and vomiting, the trifecta of you've been poisoned.

That's what we know now.

Something terrible has happened.

Right.

And it goes on for weeks.

Bob gets much better when he takes a week off for vacation, which should have been a red flag for everyone.

But then the mysterious illness comes right back again when he gets back.

Yeah.

I think that's what's great about being a murderino is like, even if you're wrong, at least you're looking into like the suspicious thing that like the red flag.

You know what I mean?

Yes.

Like, yeah, you're accusing someone of being a poisoner, but what if they are?

Well, just standing by for the people who are just like, well, I guess it's nothing.

Go back to the place where you start to get sick every time.

Like, it's just the thing.

There's some of us from trauma who have severe patterned recognition abilities.

And so when other people kind of don't or intentionally turn away, it's both frustrating and then also ultimately very satisfying.

Totally.

Well, it seems that other people around the company are also getting sick.

They initially dismissed it as a virus that's been going around, nicknamed the Bovingdon bug.

The Bovingdon bug.

But in Bob's case, this illness becomes deadly.

By July of 1971, Bob is admitted to the hospital, not just with stomach cramps, but with paralysis as well.

He dies in the hospital, and the cause of death is ruled to be pneumonia.

At Bob's funeral, one of his newest and youngest coworkers represents the firm in giving his condolences to Bob's grieving widow.

This young man is named Graham Young.

He's only 23 years old, and he started work at the company right before Bob started getting sick.

His coworkers know that Graham had spent time in treatment after a like vague family tragedy and that he's gotten his job through a special training program after having undergone treatment.

But what they don't know is that Graham has already been convicted of three separate poisoning deaths.

Oh, no.

Yeah.

Nobody told anyone.

Okay, that is very Victorian of the 70s.

Right.

I mean, how could you, how could you not at least have some kind of messaging there?

Yeah.

Like, do you have a record the way you would after?

Or just like, yeah, go get that job, good faith and everything.

And then the senior staff needs to know if anybody starts getting bad stomach aches, please call us immediately.

Exactly.

Something.

Something.

Something.

Okay.

And that's kind of what this story is all about.

So let me tell you about Graham Frederick Young.

He's born on September 7th, 1947 in North London.

His mother dies only 12 weeks after he's born, and he's initially raised by his aunt and uncle.

And eventually, his father remarries and he reunites the family, which isn't great for Graham because his stepmother, Molly, it says they don't get along.

But I feel like if you're an adult and you don't get along with a little kid, it's kind of like,

there's more to it than that.

Yes, for sure.

You know, you just like don't have differing opinions and political views.

You're just like, you're not that cool.

You're stepping into a family to become like a mother figure.

Right.

You're not allowed to not get along with anyone under 15.

Exactly.

Like you don't ask questions to little kids in public and you don't not get along with little kids.

You're the asshole in this situation.

Am I the asshole?

Yes, you're the asshole.

Yeah.

You should have marked little box on the dating application that said, no kids.

Yeah, exactly.

As he gets older, Molly starts destroying his belongings and withholds food from him.

So Graham goes on to become a very isolated child, not surprisingly, who makes no effort to make relationships with other children.

This being the 1950s, no one really addresses these issues.

He's just considered an odd kid.

And as soon as Graham is able to read, he becomes obsessed with nonfiction accounts of murder.

This doesn't mean much on its own, but then Graham becomes interested in the occult and he tries to recruit other kids in the neighborhood to join him to ritually sacrifice a cat.

I don't, you know, this is just the line I saw, but during this time, several neighborhood cats go missing.

Dark triad.

You might as well just say it.

Exactly.

As Graham gets older, he discovers another fascination.

And this one I feel like is like part of the dark triad, like outer bubbles.

He's obsessed with Hitler and the Nazis.

Oh.

You know what I mean?

He takes to walking around in a black leather duster and carrying a copy of Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler.

This is always bad news, but this is also England only 14 years after World War II.

But Graham's biggest fascination appears to be chemistry.

Graham's father buys him a chemistry set, and Graham is obsessed with it.

He spends so much time reading about chemistry that at the age of 13, he's able to walk into a chemist's and convince the chemists working there that he is 17

because he knows so much about chemistry that they assume he can't be that young.

So he's really smart.

Yes, yes.

And 17 just happens to be the age that you're allowed to buy large quantities of arsenic, antimony, and thallium.

There's an age of 17.

Yeah.

17.

What?

Yeah.

I mean, I'm sure there's some, like if you're, if you were a rat catcher or something like that, there's reasons you would need to do that.

But why wouldn't we bump that up to 21?

Just like kind of in an adult, if you have a job and it's...

Because it's the 70s and they don't care.

God, it truly was like, we're going to try to kill you in every way possible.

Can you get away with it?

Then you got away with it.

I did.

Congratulations.

Thanks so much.

I was really young and i made it yeah so all three of these chemical elements are usually considered heavy metals and they're all highly toxic at the time arsenic and antimony which by the way i think is pronounced differently in england so just antimony antimony antimony they are well-known poisons but thallium poisoning is generally unheard of if you're interested in this don't forget to read the poisoner's handbook by deborah blum that has so much information of old school poisoning yeah it's so good she's so good the people in the chemist shop believe that Graham must be a high-level chemistry student because they're like, why would a child be interested in this?

Yeah.

It's an easy assumption to make.

Yes, definitely.

And Graham tells them he's using these chemicals for studying purposes.

So they're like, oh, he, you know, must be in school.

And it's true that he's going to use these for studying purposes, but it would have quickly become apparent to anyone paying attention that Graham is studying the effects of these poisons on live subjects.

Yeah.

So not great.

Yes.

Again, he's about 13 years old.

He's the best student in his secondary school's chemistry class, but it's known around school that he has a little laboratory in an outbuilding on the school grounds where he conducts experiments on caterpillars, mice, and frogs.

And he does this while other kids are playing at recess.

Yeah.

So that's his fascination, which is like, doesn't mean anything yet.

He could go in a completely different direction and become like.

a brilliant scientist.

Very true.

There are a lot of kids that went into an area like this and then, you know, it's like abusive household, you can assume you're looking to escape,

super smart, yeah, and pretty pissed off.

Yeah.

And then maybe some like, some communication skills are lacking for various reasons.

Right.

Yeah.

It'd be cool if this story turned like then he's 16 and he joins a band.

Right.

Something like that.

You know what I mean?

He becomes a really good guitar player.

Right.

Totally.

No.

No.

That's not what happens.

Okay.

In 1961, when Graham is 13 or 14, one of his classmates named Christopher Williams becomes very sick while he's at school.

He's vomiting uncontrollably, and Graham tells his family about Christopher's illness, saying, quote, they brought out a bucket for him.

I sat and watched.

It's like observing the effects of your scientific experiment on another child.

And telling people about it, knowing that they're not going to be paying attention enough to

ask the right question.

So basically, it looks like...

you know, Christopher fell ill because of something Graham had given him, maybe a cookie, but Christopher recovers and survives.

And it seems like it's not likely the only time that Graham poisoned someone at this period.

Good.

But no, junior high.

Yeah, junior high.

Secondary school, as they call it.

I'm such a secondary high.

Right around the same time, Graham's whole family actually also becomes sick.

At first, it's intermittent, and Graham's father actually suspects that his son is just being careless with his chemistry set.

Like, you left the arsenic laying around near the tea, you know, or something.

He's just like, you silly boy.

You crazy nut.

Boys will be boys with their arsenic.

And Graham denies this and his father, Fred, doesn't really press the issue.

Then in November of 1961, Graham's older sister, who is in her early 20s, also becomes ill.

And she's actually diagnosed by a doctor as having been poisoned with Belladonna.

So he's, this doctor at least is like maybe the only one in Britain in the past 200 years who guessed that someone was getting poisoned because like they were like, you have pneumonia.

Bye.

Right.

Just over and over.

Yeah.

They just had one blood test in the 70s.

That was it.

So you got to really figure stuff out from the bottom.

Yeah.

And it didn't show up.

They didn't take it unless you were dead.

That's right.

Yeah.

But even though the doctor is like, this girl has been poisoned, Graham's father still doesn't report on his son.

Like, isn't like, you know, what's funny about that is I have someone living in my house who is fascinated with poison.

Yeah.

No, doesn't either want to connect dirt or doesn't want to get him in trouble or doesn't believe it, whatever it is.

But then a few months later in April of 1962, Graham's father comes home to discover the stepmom, his wife, Molly, on the ground in the backyard, writhing in pain.

Graham is back there too, just standing above her, watching her.

Molly's taken to the hospital, but is not able to recover and she dies.

The stepmother.

He kills a fucking stepmother.

Oh, my God.

Doctors believe that her cause of death is a prolapse of one of her spinal bones because she had been in a bus accident a few weeks earlier.

So that's what the cause of death is.

But Graham's father still doesn't involve the police i think he probably just wants to believe otherwise right for sure yeah like yes you know well and it just sounds like uh the household was not doing well yeah

and they gave him a reason why she died and has nothing to do with poison so why would he be like you know you should look at is my son and right they're not related at all except for the part where he was standing over her while she rides in pain not a great look just Not a great look.

Just a mark against in mind.

Yeah, just keep that in the mind.

You're not going to tell the cops, but just you're going to keep it right here.

Your father is absolutely going to keep that right there.

And then

hold on to that being like, I guess I am saying it.

I'm not saying it.

What do I do?

And Graham's father has Molly quickly cremated.

And some people say this was at Graham's suggestion.

Or maybe he was like, yeah, you know, why would he do that?

I don't know.

Very shortly after this, Fred, the father, becomes ill, having frequent bouts of vomiting, and he's hospitalized and diagnosed with antimony poisoning.

So that's probably the same doctor that saw the Belladonna.

He's like, I'm the only one here.

Yeah, maybe.

I mean, also, because it is like, it's a village I've never heard of.

Not that I know all of them are.

Sure, there can't be a bunch of hospitals in the 1960s.

If it is a smaller place, maybe you have like a handful of doctors too.

If it's somebody that's seen stuff already, they're like, Maybe he's a witch.

No one's going,

no, no one's going to sit there and be like, well, let's see, the son is the only one left.

So he's doing something.

Yeah.

No.

It's only then that the police get involved once this happens because one of Graham's teachers hears about Molly's death and Fred's hospitalization.

And they finally go to the police explaining about the other kids' illness at school and saying that Graham had openly brought samples of various poisons to school with him to analyze them.

So he's not keeping any of this secret.

He's almost like daring people to catch him and they're like, no, thank you.

Yeah.

We mind our own business here.

Finally.

This teacher shows them the inside of Graham's school desk, which I just had like chewed up pencils and hello kitty crap.

I had a nice little packet of spree.

You know, the candy spree that comes in that long roll.

Yes.

And it fit perfectly in the pencil holder.

That's so I just had them right there.

And then I was so satisfying.

I slowly put them in my mouth.

Well, not Graham.

His desk is stocked with books about poisoning and various vials.

Wow.

You know?

It's just all sitting right there.

Not even trying to hide it.

When they go through his bedroom, they find quantities of both antimony and thallium.

And it's believed that Graham had primarily been using antimony to poison the whole family, but that his stepmother, Molly, had developed a tolerance, well, because he had given it to her over months, like slowly poisoning them.

And the antimony likely weakened her bones so much that the prolapse of the backbone after the bus accident did actually happen, but it was because the poison was breaking down her bones.

Oh my God.

So

wow.

Crazy.

Yeah.

So she wasn't like misdiagnosed.

Like, how do they not see she was poisoned?

Maybe that's true too.

But the chain of connection, whatever that I'm i'm trying to say is what is the little red string on the corkboard in the tv show homeland yeah it's all coming back around to like oh jesus yeah

yeah later it's believed that he had administered a large dose of thallium to her the night before she died such an excruciating fucking death also it's a just that idea of like sitting there and unknowingly building up a tolerance to something that is kind of lightly killing you the entire time.

Yeah.

It's so the princess bride.

It is.

It's also very

symbolic of all of our lives.

Truly.

So Graham is arrested in May of 1962 and confesses to poisoning Christopher, as well as his father and sister.

He's not charged with Molly's murder, a stepmom's murder, because there's no physical evidence to charge him with because they cremated her.

A judge recommends that he be sent to Broadmoor Hospital for at least 15 years.

So at age 14, he becomes the youngest person sent there since 1885.

Wow.

That's a special place.

Just out of junior high, he gets sent to Broadmoor.

For the little more than the amount of time he's been on this earth, he gets sent there.

And Broadmoor, as we know, is like not messing around.

It's not a pleasant place to be.

No.

So he goes to Broadmoor, and shortly after he arrives, a fellow inmate dies of cyanide poisoning.

Oh.

What a coincidence.

Just right when he gets there, he's able to.

Yeah.

As a 14-year-old.

It's treated like a huge mystery, even though Graham boasts about having committed the poisoning immediately after it happens.

Like no one takes this kid seriously, it seems like.

I mean, he's there for God's sake.

Yeah.

Not a visitor.

No.

He says that John had annoyed him and that he had made the cyanide by distilling laurel leaves, which grew on the Broadmoor grounds.

So he just made his own

poison.

He's very smart.

Yeah, he's very smart.

I mean, that's an industrious, but he's a murderer.

Yeah, he is.

And the staff at Broadmoor totally believe that he did this, but for some reason, no higher-ups take any action, and the patient staff is ruled a suicide.

Moving on.

Okay.

Yeah.

And people keep getting sick at Broadmoor while Graham is there.

On one occasion, patients and staff start feeling ill while they're drinking tea, which you know they do so much.

They really love it.

And then a patient discovers an empty box of sugar soap near the communal tea urn in the dining hall.

Sugar soap is an abrasive compound used for cleaning walls.

I think it's like the powder soap that you get, maybe.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

The incident's never directly linked to Graham.

It's dismissed as a prank, but it could have resulted in mass poisoning if more people had drank large quantities of the tea.

And it's so interesting that he left the box behind almost like

he's so smart.

That couldn't have been an accident.

He did that on purpose.

Absolutely.

Because, I mean, and I feel like we've seen this a little bit before, where it's like the longer they don't get caught, the more outrageous everything gets, the more they are.

I mean, it feels similar to that sociopathic kind of I'm the smart or psychopathic, whatever the correct term would be.

Yeah.

That I'm the smartest person.

Everybody is just a fool and I can manipulate all these things.

It's like now he is daring.

Yeah.

He wants to know if he really is the smartest person in the world.

Definitely.

But it doesn't matter because Graham is released from Broadmoor in February of 1971 when he's 23 years old after only serving nine years of his 15-year sentence.

Graham had openly told hospital staff that he plans on killing one person for every year of his time at Broadmoor.

It's noted in his file, but I guess, like, towards the end of his sentence, he starts acting well.

And they're like, I guess he was joking.

Everything's fine now.

Let him go.

I mean, that's all it took.

Good behavior.

It's like he's telling them to hear it and see it.

Yeah.

And they say, no, no, no.

He's still just a kid.

Like, you got to teach your children well or something.

Also, there's a piece of it that is like he was not seen or heard.

He was abused.

Yeah.

And then it just is continuing.

Like no matter what he does.

Yeah.

He's kind of invisible.

Yeah.

After his release, Graham is put into a job training program where he is trained to work as a storekeeper managing inventory.

And under this program, some of the administrators in the training center are made aware he had been recently released from Broadmoor.

So they are letting those people know,

but it seems like no one knows.

why he was there.

Kind of the most important

part of that information.

Everything like, hey, it's not flu season and everyone's getting sick.

Yeah.

Here's what you got to do.

Check your sugar.

Yeah.

During this time, a fellow student at the training center becomes sick.

According to some articles, he had been a sailor and had never been seriously ill in his 21 years of life.

Graham's roommate.

Was that connected to him being a sailor?

No, just that he got sick, which has never happened.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, yeah, got it.

And that's why he was there.

You were like, he's a sailor, so he never got sick.

I'm like, what is it?

Is it the wind?

Big sails?

They're not intertwined.

Okay.

They just happen to both be true.

I see.

And then also Graham's roommate in the hostel he lives in also falls ill.

Both men ultimately recover and Graham finishes the program, moves away.

Nobody gets sick again there.

At least no one died there.

Well, this brings us to April of 1971 when Graham gets a job through this training program at the John Hadland Company, where we started the story.

His immediate supervisor, as I said, Bobby Eagle, dies within two months of Graham starting at the company.

Nobody gave anyone a heads up there.

And since no one at John Hadland had any idea about Graham's past and no one seems to be keeping any kind of tabs on him after his release, nothing is done.

Graham is promoted to Bob's position as head of the storeroom after Bob dies.

Huh.

Yeah.

He wasn't trying to get.

that.

I don't think so.

Yeah, no.

I don't think he cared.

I don't think storeroom was his like passion.

No.

It was killing through poison.

Yeah.

Was his passion.

By September of 1971, John Hadland is having major issues with staffing because so many people are getting sick with various ailments, most of them stomach related, but there are also complaints of hair loss and headaches.

Remember that one office like many years back when they had to evacuate the building because they opened the fridge and food had been in there so long that it was like a toxic mold that got in the air and everyone started getting sick and they had to like hazmat the place.

No way.

I don't remember that.

That's incredible.

Office fridges are so disgusting.

There are definitely half burritos in our refrigerator that I am responsible for that probably could kill people.

But Brian, our office manager, goes in and throws shit away.

Because we don't need that liability.

I actually caught Brian sniffing the milk when I ran out of the meeting really quick to go get a spoon.

And he was just standing there like this.

And I'm like, thank you very much.

Oh, no.

Thank you so much.

Oh, no.

You guys believe.

Pass-by dates.

They're there for a reason.

Yeah.

And also have somebody with their eyes on.

It matters.

Thank God.

Thank God for Brian.

So other people complain of hallucinations, which probably weren't fun, like on drugs.

Yeah.

When you don't have a reason for hallucinations, they suck.

You don't know what's coming and suddenly you're just kind of like the carpet is snakes.

Why does your face look like an orange peel?

Come on.

Yeah, you're not out on a hill somewhere enjoying yourself.

You're in an office.

Yeah.

Oof.

It sucks when you're sober, let alone.

Fucked up.

Let alone hallucinating against your will.

Yeah.

So people wonder if there could be an issue with water contamination or radiation, but no one has pinpointed the cause.

But at this point, another employee, a 60-year-old man named Fred Biggs, is admitted to the hospital with similar symptoms to Bob Eagle, who had passed away.

So stomach issues that devolve into paralysis.

And Fred passes away two months later in November.

Wow.

That's two dad of the company and many sick.

So after Fred's death, a company doctor meets with all the employees to reassure them that like everything's fine, even though we don't know what it is.

you okay?

Okay, sign here.

Having a job sucks so much anyway.

Right.

Just thinking of any like office job I've ever had, or it's always the gap.

But that idea where you're just kind of like, this isn't my dream.

I'm trying to make a buck.

I just want to get home.

Die over it.

And I'm just going to drink the wrong cup of tea because no one can communicate.

That's how I felt after 9-11 when it was like, I'm going to go to my high-rise building that I hate

and I might die in it, like for fucking minimum wage.

Yeah.

I should just stay home for zero wage for several years.

I thought you were going to say,

Okay, so Fred passes away.

Okay, so the doctor comes to me with everyone and tell them everything's fine, even though clearly everything is not fine.

And at the meeting, Graham can't help himself.

He stands up and starts asking lots of questions, which everyone hates the guy who asks questions in the meetings.

Like, shut up.

Can we get this over with?

Graham asks if the doctors have considered the possibility that both Fred and Bob were poisoned by thallium.

So he's just like he wants to

get

credit almost.

Yes.

Not like he wants to stop.

He wants credit.

Yes.

The company did keep thallium on hand since it's used in photography, but Graham was actually getting his thallium from outside sources.

So when pathologists examined Fred, they realized that he has indeed been poisoned with thallium.

And the doctor and the company president call the police.

Great.

They're like, hey, this guy who kept raising his hand in this meeting is super suspicious.

The police search Graham's room and find not only large quantities of poisons, but also a detailed diary.

In it, Graham writes about poisoning Fred and Bob's cups of tea and documents the men's responses to the poison like he's doing a science experiment.

He writes about Fred saying, quote, November 10th, F must have a phenomenal tolerance to the compound, for he is still obstinately alive.

If he survives a third week, he will live.

This would be inconvenient, end quote.

So just sociopath, couldn't we agree?

Sociopath or psychopath?

Yeah.

This is our unprofessional opinion.

Unprofessional opinion up to the Broadmoor doctors to actually diagnose.

And they didn't, it seems like.

Investigators believe that Graham would poison cups of tea from the company Tea Trolley, and then he'd bring them to Bob and Fred.

So personally deliver them.

Got to keep an eye on your drink, you guys.

What a time.

Yeah.

I mean, tea trolleys.

Can you imagine?

Just someone bringing you a nice hot drink every 30 minutes.

Can we get that here?

Yeah, I think we could.

Okay, so Graham is arrested and is tried a year later in June of 1972.

He's found guilty on two counts of murder, two counts of attempted murder, and two counts of administering poison.

Over the year between the arrest and the trial, the details of every single glaring red flag in Graham's life is reported on.

And it's a big sensation.

He's nicknamed the teacup killer, which he actually hates the nickname because he thinks it lacks gravitas, which is like, you don't get to pick your nickname.

You are a murderer.

You don't get to like it or not like it.

Whether you're a murderer or whether you're in seventh grade, you don't get to pick your own

in this world.

Facts of life.

It doesn't work that way.

In the wake of the trial, the UK's Home Secretary calls for a complete review for the process of releasing patients with violent histories.

So thank fucking God for that.

And the end result of this is an establishment called the Advisory Board for Restricted Patients.

So something does come out of it, which isn't really much comfort to the people whose family members were killed.

Yeah.

But something does.

Graham is found guilty and sentenced to life at Parkhurst Prison on Isle of Wight.

There,

Graham's only friend is another prisoner named Ian Brady

of the Moores murders.

Yeah.

Right.

So that's who your friend is.

That's the kind of logic.

It's a common and they probably both zapped each other when they saw each other with that same psychopathic.

Hey, what's up?

Definitely.

I actually covered that, the Moores murders in 2017 in episode 62 trust issues and skate issues who knows what that meant trust issues and skate issues uh-huh so graham dies of heart failure in 1990 at the age of 42 although some people believe that he was actually poisoned or poisoned himself in the end

because 42 is pretty young yeah

and that's the story of the teacup murderer And that's all there is.

That is all you're going to say about it.

That was amazing.

Yeah, I mean, it's so old-timey feeling, but it's not.

Just this kind of like somebody that's just berserking with poisoning and nothing happening.

No repercussions at all.

He killed his stepmom.

Yeah.

I just think the process and the journey is so delicious.

That's where all the good stuff is.

You just can't live and die by the end result.

It's scary putting yourself out there, especially when it's something you really care about and something that you hope is your passion in life and you want people to like it.

Let's get delicious and put ourselves out there.

I'm Simone Boyce, host of The Bright Side, and those were my recent guests, comedian Phoebe Robinson and writer Aaron Foster.

On this show, I'm talking to the brightest minds in entertainment, health, wellness, and pop culture.

And every week, we're going places in our communities, our careers, and ourselves.

It's not about being perfect.

It's about going on a journey and discovering the bright side of becoming.

Few people know that better than soccer legend Ashlyn Harris.

It's the journey, it's the people, it's the failures, it's the heartache, it's the little moment.

These are our moments to laugh, learn, and exhale.

So join me every Monday, and let's find the bright side together.

Listen to the bright side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in our backlog will be identified in our lifetime.

On the new podcast, America's Crime Lab, every case has a story to tell, and the DNA holds the truth.

He never thought he was going to get caught, and I just looked at my computer screen.

I was just like, ah, gotcha.

This technology is already solving so many cases.

Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Liz went from being interested in true crime to living true crime.

My husband said, Your dad's been killed.

This is Hands Tied, a true crime podcast exploring the murder of Jim Melgar.

I was just completely in shock.

Liz's father murdered, and her mother found locked in a closet, her hands and feet bound.

It didn't feel real at all.

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We're still fighting.

Listen to Hands Tied on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Well, great job.

Thank you.

Frustrating,

but amazing.

Yes.

This is similar, but in a totally different area.

Okay.

The story I'm going to tell you, I think when I thought of it, it was over the holidays because, you know, my dad, he basically watches football and golf and the news and the weather.

And then.

Like, just, if you had to make me pick one of those, I couldn't.

Pick one right now.

If I had to watch one of those four things.

Football, golf, news, weather.

Weather.

Yeah.

It's pretty great.

Yeah.

Because then you can like talk about their outfits.

I mean, I'm into weather.

If it's extreme weather, especially.

Nothing I love more than a person that's going like this to a big map, but actually in their real world, it's just a big green piece of paper.

They just have to pretend and look in a monitor.

Professionals.

They know exactly which direction to move their hand, even though it's the opposite of.

Fascinating.

Okay.

So anyway, that was off topic.

Go.

Props to weather people.

Yeah.

And also then anything on PBS, which we've already talked about.

So he'll just watch any old documentary.

But when he calls me to say, hey, did you ever see this movie, The Woman in Gold?

And I was just like, no, tell me all about what we're talking about.

And then he talks about it like it is the greatest film that was ever made.

Oh my God.

Because he will not like.

pay for any extra apps or anything.

Yeah.

So he is truly trying to catch real-time movies on regular TV.

I forgot what that was like.

Right.

So it really is actually like when you do stumble upon a good movie, you're like about to start and you're like, I'm in.

Here we go.

And it's historical nonfiction.

Like, bring it on.

Okay, I've never heard of it.

So I'm pretty sure that's how we got to this point of me telling you the story right now.

Because it is a really good movie.

So it's late 1990s in Vienna, Austria.

And the Austrian gallery in the Belvedere Palace is where countless works from the country's most celebrated artists are put on display.

And one of the visitors at that museum today is a woman named Maria Altman.

She's in her early 80s and and she lives in Los Angeles, but she is originally from Austria, but because she's Jewish, she and her family had to flee Austria and Europe during World War II.

So today is a bit of a homecoming for her, but a complicated one.

She's not here for a leisurely stroll through this museum.

She moves through the building with a very determined and focused gait until she comes to a very specific painting.

And then she stops.

And this painting is the portrait of Adele Blockbauer 1

and one of the most famous paintings by the painter Gustav Klimpt.

You might know Klimt from his painting The Kiss, which is

really gold and then the guy over the girl.

But this portrait, the Adele 1

is also very famous.

Yeah.

Looks like it's made out of mosaics, like tiles.

It's just gold and beautiful.

So gorgeous.

And a woman in a beautiful gown.

Yeah.

An amazing piece of art.

Yeah.

Klimpt truly is one of my favorite artists like the kiss the adele one has an ornate and dreamy look portraying a woman in a textured and vibrant sea of gold her face calm her dark hair pinned up and her hands gently clasped at her chest this is considered to be an Art Nouveau masterpiece, but for Mia Altman it is much much more valuable.

The beautiful woman in the painting Adele is Maria's aunt and this painting was commissioned by her uncle Ferdinand.

For years it was proudly displayed in their family home in Vienna until it was stolen by the Nazis in the 30s.

Whoa.

So, when World War II ended, the painting somehow wound up in this museum.

And not only did it become the Austrian government's property, but it was one of their most prized pieces of art.

Wow.

And that's why Maria is here today.

This is the story of Maria Altman and the hard-fought battle to reclaim her aunt's portrait.

Wow.

Mm-hmm.

So the main sources are 2006 episode of PBS's Life and Times, which there's no way my dad did not see.

It aired on KCET, which is the LA PBS station.

A 2016 BBC article by Kimberly Bradley called The Mysterious Muse of Gustav Klimt, and archival articles from the New York Times and the Los Angeles Times.

And the rest of the sources are in our show notes.

So first we'll talk about Maria Altman's family.

So in the early 1900s, the Bloch-Bauer family is one of the wealthiest and most culturally connected Jewish families in Austria.

Maria's uncle, Ferdinand Block, is a sugar baron, and his wife, Adele Bauer, is the daughter of a banker and a railway executive.

So, as a sign of how influential both families are, when Ferdinand and Adele marry, they hyphenate their last names, which is very uncommon for the time.

Yeah, okay.

So, the Block Bauers are like, it's the Block Bauers, motherfuckers.

I'll say that I'm not sure.

I'm always on there.

Their thank you notes.

Just said,

it's not the Block Bowers.

What's their

family crest?

When you write a letter and it's your

stationary.

Yeah.

Their letterhead.

It's what I was looking for.

So the couple are enthusiastic patrons of the arts.

They're known for hosting salon nights in their gorgeous Vienna mansion.

Just once can I see it.

Just the electric lighting,

you know, making the place glow.

I thought it was so beautiful.

And they have art pieces like that just sitting around, gigantic, gorgeous, beautiful, modern.

Canopies alone.

So at these salon nights, artists, musicians, intellectuals all come together for basically a big dinner party, an amazing conversation, and like to perform for each other.

It's like...

artiste intellectual night.

The artist Gustav Klimt is one of the people in this group.

So in 1907, he is commissioned by Ferdinand to paint two portraits of 22-year-old Adele.

Both pieces are beautiful, of course, but Adele I becomes the crown jewel of this family's vast art collection, which is said to be one of the most extensive in all of Europe.

So about nine years later in 1916, Maria Altman is born.

When she and her family visit her Aunt Adele and Uncle Ferdinand, which is often, the Adele I painting is essentially like the backdrop of all of her family gathering memories.

Oh my gosh.

In 1925, Adele passes away at the age of 43 from meningitis.

Oh no.

Yeah.

Of course, Ferdinand's devastated, and he moves her two portraits into his bedroom, basically creating a shrine to her.

Very sad.

And the other portrait, which I love just as much, it's just a totally different vibe.

It's that one.

So gorgeous.

Rich.

Tapestry.

But it's like the turn, little after the turn of the century.

So like advanced.

Gorgeous.

And cool.

Anyway, so 13 years later, 1938, Hitler moves into and takes over Austria.

And at this time, Maria's in her early 20s.

She is newly married to a young opera singer named Fritz Altman.

So Fritz Altman is taken hostage by the Gestapo and he's held until the family assets are transferred to the Nazi party.

When he's released, the couple is placed under house arrest.

Luckily, Maria and her family are able to get out of Austria at this time, including Maria's uncle Ferdinand.

So that was the thing is like, of course, if you had money and you had any kind of connections and that started, started up and you could see the signs, you got out.

Yeah, for a short period, there was a way to get out if you had the means.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But having the means also means they have to leave everything behind.

So all that art, that entire mansion, everything that was in the mansion, jewelry, I mean, they just had to leave with what they could carry.

So all of it is plundered by the Nazis, including invaluable sentimental items like a cello belonging to Maria's father, Gustav, that had been played by countless musician friends at those salons.

Maria says, quote, when the Nazis came and picked up the cello, it was like the thread of life was cut.

My father died two weeks after that.

It was absolutely a broken heart.

He died of a broken heart.

Wow.

So also, Adele is actually wearing in the painting, Adele one, she is wearing a diamond necklace and earring set that they actually had at the house.

And that's also stolen along with everything else.

Ferdinand gifted that set to Maria as a wedding present, but during the war, it winds up in the hands of Hitler's second in command, Hermann Göring, who gives it to his wife.

Ferdinand's sugar refinery and his home, the mansion are also seized and all the artwork incited.

And the Nazi, known as the principal architect of the final solution, Reinhard Heydrich, moves into their home.

Did you see Zone of Interest?

I watched that with my dad.

It was just that when she gets the bag full of fur coats and there's just stuff in the pockets, it's just like so quietly haunting that movie.

What about the scene where the mother-in-law is up in her room because the fires from the concentration camp ovens are lighting up her room and she's just standing at the window?

That was one of the gone the next day.

Yes.

It was like one of the scariest.

And it's so like, just there's no sound

except for like the distant.

It's yeah,

I think that movie also won for sound design because of all of that.

That was such a huge part of that movie.

It's a zone of interest, you guys.

Make sure you watch it.

Have to see it.

You gotta be up on this shit.

Well, yes.

Today, especially, in these days, especially, but also because that thing of like, there's a wall, and we have, we can pretend over here and nothing's happening over there.

Right.

Good point.

So essentially, everyone knows that this is what the Nazis did during World War II.

Then they lost.

Important to remember that.

And then, of course, what happens after the war, the chronology is very unclear.

So it's hard to track what happened to the Blockbauer family's art collection.

The BBC describes it as a, quote, ownership limbo.

What we know is that a handful of their paintings, including Klimp's two portraits of Adele, are shuffled between different Austrian institutions.

They ultimately land at the Austrian gallery in Vienna.

So meanwhile, the Bloch Bauer family has split up, of course, because they all had to emigrate.

So Ferdinand winds up in Switzerland.

He passes away just a few years later in near poverty

because, of course, they took everything away from him.

Maria and Fritz arrive in the United States in 1940.

They actually had to like escape and kind of bounced around Europe a little bit.

Finally got to America in 1940.

They settle in Los Angeles and basically rebuild their lives from scratch in Los Angeles.

Fritz gets a manufacturing job with Lockheed while Maria starts selling luxury cashmere goods made by her brother-in-law, Bernard Altman.

So Bernard Altman fled Austria and relaunched his small business selling cashmere goods in New York City after, of course, the one that he had in Austria was taken over by the Nazis.

So at this time, cashmere is like a novelty in the United States.

And the average person doesn't know anything about it, basically.

But as Maria shops the clothing around the department stores and boutiques in Southern California, the cashmere business takes off.

Wow.

Before long, Fritz gets to leave Lockheed and they're able to open their own shop in Beverly Hills.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

So Maren makes a personal note to me, which I love because her personal notes are always as interesting as anything else in the story.

So

she said, you can still buy Bernard Altman's vintage cashmere pieces on places like Etsy and eBay.

I want one.

So you can, something to look up and just see.

Yeah.

But it's so interesting to me because cashmere sweat, like my mom was obsessed with cashmere sweaters and like she would that was a big gift she would give you when you're certain birthdays i love them but it was because cashmere in the 50s meant you were like you had money and it was very like your cashmere sweater is a beautiful look you know it's weird to me that that time period in like a maybe one mile radius is where my family is living their lives yes at that very moment absolutely

in la yeah they probably went to my grandfather's butcher shop and bought their meat from him right absolutely what i mean yes so crazy and the children of the future will be able to hear this conversation and be like, you like press your, a button in your head and be like, now you can play the movie of that happening.

But go back to that day.

Wouldn't that be amazing?

Yeah, if it's okay.

It is not going to be okay.

Whatever.

Whatever.

Sell bad.

Yeah.

Trying to put a nice spin on the future of AI.

And I'm like,

no.

Because then you have to live in that movie because you're actually in prison.

Sorry.

Too negative.

Take it out.

No, leave it.

Too negative in the middle of a Nazi story.

I know.

Leave it.

We've lost all perspective.

So, for a couple that's been through living hell and lost nearly everything in the war, Maria and Fritz are now living the American dream and earning the American dream.

They become U.S.

citizens, they are successful business owners, and over the next several years, they welcome four children together.

Their lives are safe, they're stable, and even joyful, which is a beautiful thing after them having to go through something that horrible.

So over the years, the Altmans as a family try to get the Block Bauer's art collection back.

They actually succeed with some pieces, but they don't have much recourse when it comes to the higher profile works, including five climped paintings, Adele's two portraits, and then three landscapes, and then also some of Klimped drawings.

Wow.

And that's because the Austrian government is adamant that Adele wanted those portraits and pieces to stay in Vienna.

They seem to have the documents that back this up, including a note Adele wrote before the Nazis plundered everything in her home that essentially said, I asked my husband to leave my two portraits and the four landscapes of Gustav Klimtz to the Austrian gallery in Vienna.

So believing that they have no leverage, Maria and her family basically give up on recovering those Klimt paintings.

And that's that.

Maria says, quote, I'd never even thought of taking the paintings away.

I was under the impression that they were theirs.

So decades later, in 1994, Maria's husband Fritz passes away at the age of 86, of course, devastating for her and her family.

And then in 1998, her world is upended again, but this time it's thanks to the work of a prominent Austrian investigative journalist, Hubertus Schernin.

So Schernin is an internationally acclaimed reporter, and some of his renown is because he revealed former Secretary General of the UN and President of Austria, Kurt Waldheim, was in fact involved in Nazi-affiliated groups during World War II.

Wow, that's so cool.

Yeah.

So now Schernin is making headlines because he's investigating how the Austrian government is handling artwork that was looted by the Nazis.

So up until this point, Austria has been quietly returning some of the stolen artwork to its rightful owners.

But Chernin exposes it as a coercive process that leaves the government with the exact art they want to keep.

So Austria might, for example, give back certain artwork on the condition that a family signs away the rights to a more high-profile piece.

Chernin's reporting helps lead to the passage of an Austrian law called the 1998 Art Restitution Act, which tosses out any coercive agreements the government previously used to hold on to looted art.

This law also mandates that the government opens its archives to the public for the first time.

And who's the first person in them archives?

Once they open them, it's Shernin.

And he digs through and finds that Austrian officials withheld the fact that Maria's uncle Ferdinand, who outlived his wife Adele, who wrote that note saying, I would like my husband to keep these things in Vienna.

He outlived her and he left his own will, which explicitly stipulated that his entire estate should be divided amongst his nieces and nephews.

Wow.

Maria, at 82 years old, is the only one of those nieces and nephews still alive.

Holy shit.

When that discovery is made.

So for her and her family, Ferdinand's will makes the issue crystal clear.

His entire estate is legally hers.

Damn.

Oh, my God.

But Maria is willing to let the Austrian government keep several pieces of art on one condition, and that's that she wants them to admit that they were stolen from her family.

Hell yeah.

They refuse.

Hell no.

So Maria Altman lawyers up.

Hell yeah.

Hell yeah.

No, of course.

Hell yeah.

I just wanted you to do that one more time.

One more time.

One more time.

I can do the whole time if you want.

Just keep doing it.

She hires a young attorney named Randall Schoenberg.

He's a family friend with deep ties to Austria's pre-war art world.

He's also the grandson of two prominent Austrian composers.

So from the start, Maria's case feels very personal for Randall.

He tells reporters, quote, I remember the first time I went to Vienna when I was 11 years old and saw Climp's gold portrait in the Austrian gallery.

My mom pointed it out and said, you know Maria Altman, your grandmother's friend, that's her Aunt Adele.

Holy shit.

Imagine being able to do that in a museum.

No, that's just beyond.

Someday, Mona Lisa, that's your aunt's best friend.

That's Marty's cousin, Dan's sons, boys.

In 1999, Randall files a claim on behalf of Maria, who is now 83 years old, in an Austrian court.

That same year, they successfully recover more than a dozen Klimped drawings and nearly 20 sets of porcelain from the estate, but they do not get the six climps, the big paintings.

But they don't give up.

The next year they file a new claim, this time in California, which is a strategic move because in Austria, legal fees are tied to the value of the property that's being litigated.

And these paintings are valued at hundreds of millions of dollars.

Right.

So taking the case to U.S.

courts avoids this huge financial roadblock, and it also forces Austria to defend itself on foreign ground.

Yeah, where they're like not as lenient.

To themselves.

Yeah.

Expectedly, the Austrian government fights back.

They try to get the lawsuit tossed.

They argue that American courts have no jurisdiction here and that these climped paintings, which are now considered to be Austrian national treasures, should stay in Vienna.

But Randall counters that under international law, U.S.

citizens like Maria have the right to sue a foreign government for property stolen during war.

A U.S.

court agrees, and the case is allowed to proceed in California, even as Austria continues filing appeals.

Damn.

And I love that too, because it's like the reason she is now a citizen of America is because, why?

Yeah.

Because what happened in Europe?

If she country couldn't stay there, she would have been murdered.

She, along with all of the other Jews that had to escape this area.

It doesn't compute.

Yes.

The numbers aren't numbering.

You don't get to say, sorry, that doesn't count over here.

Where it's like, it has to count.

So in 2001, 85-year-old Maria tells the Los Angeles Times, quote, they will delay, delay, delay, hoping I will die, but I will do them the pleasure of staying alive.

Because my grandma, who's like the same, they're like the same, lived to be 105 and that means, or 104, that means that she had 20 more years to enjoy this painting of her aunt if she fucking survived, which these.

Jewish women live for fucking ever.

Yes, they do.

So.

You know why?

Because they have a period of starvation when they're young.

Although she didn't, though, but hereditarily, it could be be her great-grandmother that had a period of starvation and she'll still live longer.

She's from a culture of people who have been hunted.

They have to live.

They have to be strong.

There's no crying in that kind of baseball.

You don't get to be soft.

You're just forced to be strong, work hard,

make do.

Make do.

That's the story of American immigrants.

My grandma used to say make do so much.

Okay.

I was talking about my grandmother also.

I mean, like, that's what we can all do.

That's what everybody can talk about in their grandparents and great-grandparents.

So some people.

Some people.

I will do them the pleasure of staying alive.

The ultimate threat.

Yeah.

So the case drags on until it finds its way to the U.S.

Supreme Court.

In 2004, its justices rule in Maria's favor, and they state that she has the right to pursue her claim in American courts.

So by now, Maria and Randall have spent five years fighting the Austrian government.

Randall has left a comfy law firm job to focus everything on this case,

which since the get-go, many have considered to be a long shot at best.

It's a legacy case, though.

It's like...

Personal.

Yeah.

Yep.

So because of that, the two stay focused, Adele and Randall.

And Randall ultimately builds his argument around Adele's own words.

Because remember, in her will, she said, quote, I ask my husband leave my two portraits and the landscapes of Gustav Klimpt to the Austrian gallery in Vienna.

Randall zeroes in on the word ask.

He argues that this is simply a request.

And since Adele didn't actually own the paintings, Ferdinand did because he's the man who commissioned and paid for them, her statement has no legal binding power.

Oh my God, words, they're important.

Yeah.

Well, and also it just, Ferdinand's own will is very clear.

Everything goes to the nieces and nephews.

This argument is successful.

In 2006, seven years into the battle, a three-judge panel rules in Maria's favor.

And just like that, she is granted legal ownership of those six climped paintings, including a Dell 1.

Wow.

So for the first time since the 30s, this artwork is reunited with a member of the Block Bauer family.

Wow.

When these climped paintings finally make their way back to Maria, she is so overjoyed that she wants to share them with the city of Los Angeles.

So they are put on display at LACMA.

Do you think that when the Austrian people sent it over, they like kicked it a little and made like a little hole in it just to fuck with you?

I think that I bet you that they sat around like crying as they wrapped it up in that paper and then in a crate and then in a bunch of other stuff.

Because it's a masterpiece.

It's a masterpiece.

Oh my God.

So LACMA.

Wow.

It's at LACMA and it's in 2006.

So probably went, I think they said she immediately shared it with the city.

Yeah.

Did you go?

I didn't.

Of course not.

God damn it.

I could have seen it in person.

I was 26.

I was fucking busy going to bars and

trying to live my fucking life and not work in a high-rise.

I was working in daily television and I forgot what actual art looked and felt like.

Here's her quote from when she talked to reporters about that, taking them to LACMA.

She says, now my hometown is Los Angeles and these paintings, thanks to the museum, followed me.

to my present hometown.

It's just wonderful.

Oh my God, I have chills.

I think I'm going to look up what that maybe was like in 2006, like people, what that opening was like.

Oh my God, I'm sure it was epic.

So owning these paintings is a huge job.

Maria simply can't afford the exorbitant costs of storing them and insuring them.

So in 2006, the same year she gets them, she sells them at auction.

The three climped landscapes sell for tens of millions of dollars each.

Holy shit.

Shit.

And then the second Adele commissioned portraits, this one that has has less gold in it.

It's just as beautiful, though.

It sells for $87.9 million.

Which in today's money.

So it's 2006, you said?

That was 2006.

$87 million, $133.

$177.

Shit.

Yeah.

And guess who bought it?

Her grandkids were stoked that day.

Absolutely.

Who bought it?

Lachma?

Oprah Winfrey.

No way.

Ow.

She's got climped money.

She's the only person who has clumped.

At the time, she was the only climped money person.

That's right.

In 2016, Oprah sold it to an undisclosed buyer for a reported $150 million,

which is nearly $200 million in today's money.

Oh, my God.

So we're still talking about the other one.

So the same year, Adele 1, which is the most coveted artwork of the collection and the masterpiece, considered to be a masterpiece.

It's sold to Ronald Lauder, one of the heirs to the Estee Lauder Cosmetics fortune.

Wow.

He also happens to run the Neue Gallery in New York City, which houses Austrian fine art.

He buys the painting for a whopping $135 million,

which sets a record at the time and is worth about how much today?

$250?

$215.

God, I thought you were going to...

I think that would have been our first on-the-noser.

Totally.

I wasn't.

That wasn't.

I wasn't going to.

It happens.

Listen, I understand.

It's all guessing.

Someday mine are never even closed.

No, it's impossible.

So he and Maria make an agreement that this painting will permanently be on display at the Noya Gallery.

And to this day, you can go New York City to the Noya Gallery and see it there.

Let's go.

Yeah, right.

I want to.

Maria has said, quote, I am just happy it has a home at the Noya Gallery.

It is very deserved.

I couldn't have wished for a better place.

So before Robert Lauder purchased the Adele one,

the highest amount ever paid for a piece of art was a Picasso painting called Boy with a Pipe.

And that was in 2004.

And someone bought that for $104.1 million.

Wow.

So, very kind of telling and amazing that it's like, and then this painting comes along and just kind of blows Picasso's doors off.

Totally, because it's got this interesting and rich history, too.

And it's also just so gorgeous and golden.

So, in 2011, Maria passes away after a long illness at the age of 94.

Wow.

Yeah.

But her story continues to inspire.

And in 2015, it's memorialized in the film Woman in Gold, starring Helen Mirren as Maria and Ryan Reynolds as Randall.

No way.

It is a great movie.

Oh my God, I've never even heard of it.

I watched it on a plane one time and I was like, it was as if I wasn't traveling.

Perfect.

Like you're learning, you're loving.

It's like they go from past to present and all the things are happening.

Oh my God, I love that kind of movie.

And also, Helen Mirin playing Maria, you get this sense of Maria as this kind of no-nonsense, like, I just want what's right to happen for once.

Yeah, it's great.

It's like proving a point.

Yeah.

So, in total, for all five of the climped paintings that she was able to recover,

she and her family net $327 million at auction.

Jesus.

That's worth more than $518 million today.

Wow.

That family was obviously bankrupt

during World War II.

Ferdinand died with nothing.

Yeah.

These were his.

Yeah.

Just like stolen out of his hands by Nazis.

And this is the value where it's like, you wouldn't let something of value like that just sit somewhere or no, especially not by the people who persecuted me.

Yes.

Especially.

Especially.

You can't bully someone and then not expect them to come for you.

That's right.

To come right back.

But it really wasn't about the money for Maria, as she told NPR, because they had money.

Yeah, yeah.

They set themselves right back up and were like, we made a life for ourselves.

As she told NPR, quote, it was strictly a matter of justice.

And that's the story of Maria Altman's fight to reclaim the painting of her aunt, the Adele Blockbauer one.

Wow.

That was so good.

Good one, right?

Such a good one.

Go watch the movie.

Okay.

Love Helen Mirren and all of her insane talent.

Amazing.

Did you say Ryan Reynolds?

Ryan Reynolds, he's great.

Okay.

He is.

He's very like, it's very real.

And he's obviously like, he wants to get this.

He's playing a Nazi?

Done.

Oh, no.

He's the lawyer.

Okay.

Okay.

That makes more sense.

Okay, got it.

I'm like, he doesn't play a Jew or a Nazi, right?

Because that doesn't, because I can't, and I won't.

I think he's supposed to be Jewish.

He might be supposed to be Jewish.

Good job, Jane.

Thank you.

Should we do a couple fucking hoes so we don't end on Nazis?

Let's do it.

Do you have one that you want to live your own?

Is there a fucking hooray in your life right now?

Yeah, there is.

Well, there's plenty.

But I think the nicest one is I got to hang out with my niece this past weekend.

It's just such a delight.

The idea that she turned out to be the kind of person that I love hanging out with, totally.

Which I know not everybody gets to have that or say that.

Like it's just a joy.

I'm so proud of her.

She's such a good person and she's so goddamn hilarious.

Like it's just great.

It's such a nice feeling.

I guess everybody feels that way about their

special.

Nora is very special.

She really is.

Yeah.

There's no like, oh, it's because she's your niece.

No, she's a gem.

It's the kind of thing where we go to Sephora and I'm like, you can have anything.

And I have to whisper to her, like, you can get anything you want.

Cause my sister's like, stop it, or whatever.

And then she literally will come with like three things.

Right.

Where I'm like, are you kidding me?

Yeah.

Like, I would have been like,

every time.

And she's just, yeah, she's.

She's good values.

Yeah.

She's a good person.

She's like,

Laura.

Good job, Laura.

Yeah.

I guess mine has something to do with my sister, too.

We got some tiling done in the backyard.

And I just noticed like a couple weeks ago that one tile is upside down.

And it's been driving me fucking crazy since then.

And I pointed it out to my sister when she was over and she goes, what if it's a portal to another universe?

And it made me so happy.

I was like, that's so true.

And that's how we think.

And I love that you pointed it out to me.

I will never change it.

Like just that, that way of thinking made me so happy.

And it's just, yeah, I appreciate that she did that for me because now I'm, I love it there's nothing like sister perspective yeah because they really older sisters kind of set your world for you in an irritating way when you're growing up yeah but they really do have the power to kind of come in and just be like actually that's not a problem and you're fine right and it's something that like is weird and definitely like comes from reading a lot of books and something I would say myself and so the fact that my sister said it was like oh yeah we're we're the same yeah she knew how to solve the problem for you for me specifically because a lot of people wouldn't be like what are you fucking talking about but like yeah that actually actually could be a portal to another universe.

Yeah, or just like a different way to look at things that's more fun for you instead of everything has to be a certain way.

Right.

Something's wrong and bad.

Okay, let's see.

You want to read one?

Sure.

The subject line of this is in it's an email.

It says, fucking hooray for our own happiness.

And then it says, aunties, I've taken control of my mental health and decided to take a solo trip to London this summer.

I'll be starting the trip off strong with a Jack the Ripper walking tour and ending it with a visit to the Tower of London, which is where Anne Boleyn was beheaded.

I'll be thinking about Karen the entire time because I know she loves those good European Victorian times.

That's very true.

Thank you.

Shout out to my therapist, Robin, who has taught me to value myself and quote, just fucking go for it.

Yeah, yeah.

So fucking hooray for finding a small glimmer of fun in the shitty world.

SSDGM Ashley.

Yay, Ashley, glimmers.

Love it.

Okay, this one's from a YouTube comment.

My fucking hooray, I had to write a strongly worded work email about a conflict.

I used the word tantamount to sound extra smart.

My bestie co-worker clocked it and asked me where I heard that word, and I proudly announced that my murder aunties taught it to me because it was in a murderer's note to police.

See Freeway Phantom Rewind episode 19.

Thanks for keeping me sounding intelligent when telling someone off professionally.

Stay badass, my ladies.

And that's from Carly Princell1801.

Thanks, Carly.

Yeah, good job.

Tantamount.

Your report was tantamount to a pile of shit.

What if that's what the email was?

I'll try to use that this week in a sentence where it fits.

Just throw it on in there, tantamount.

These mozzarella sticks are tantamount to a block of

a brick.

Did I use that right?

I was going to say like an early Christmas.

You were doing it in the neg.

Yes.

This is tantamount to a.

You don't like mozzarella sticks?

No, no, no.

I'm just saying the ones you order are bad.

Because I have to quit this podcast now.

I'm talking about a bad order of mozzarella 6.

I see.

Usually that's impossible.

Oh, because it was like a complaint.

I see.

Tantamount to it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was thinking, I think you used it wrong.

So, okay.

You want to do one more?

Oh, yeah.

This one is also an email.

And it says, My fucking hooray is that after 12 years of living in the U.S., last week, I became a U.S.

citizen.

Wow.

Can't wait for my first Jerry Duty.

Thanks for

being awesome.

Love E.

E.

Welcome, E.

Yeah, good job.

I bet you right now, E knows more about the government than both of us combined.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, entirely.

My last one is from Instagram.

It's from FireSign Sammy.

Fucking hooray.

I just accepted a job fundraising for the library as a lifelong bookworm.

An English major, turned English teacher, turned nonprofit person.

This could not be a more perfect space for me.

Huzzah.

And then that emoji.

Stay sexy and save libraries, y'all.

Sam.

P.S.

Thank you to Georgia for many years of book recommendations.

Keep them coming.

Yes.

I love that.

Yeah.

Awesome.

You haven't done one in a little while.

Yeah.

I mean, just we've talked about other stuff.

I'm always reading multiple.

I don't know why I don't talk about them.

Okay.

Yeah.

Thank you, Sammy.

Appreciate you.

Sammy, amazing.

Tell us your fucking hooray in any way you think might work.

Also, I was just going to say real quick.

If you are worried about the library, then it's a good idea to contact your library where you live and ask them what they need in terms of donations, in terms of support, in terms of anything, because our libraries are under under attack and it is completely insane.

And that idea that people are being cut off from what is a community service that everybody should have and that many people rely on is insane.

Absolutely.

So

activism around libraries is big and important.

And thank you if you're already doing it.

Good job.

I think the only thing left is.

It's briefcase challenge.

Oh my God, I forgot already.

What's that?

Not two weeks ago?

Shit.

All I've been thinking about this entire time.

All right.

You guys are tantamount to the awesomest people in the world.

Thank you guys for listening.

Stay sexy.

And don't get murdered.

Goodbye.

Elvis, do you want a cookie?

This has been an exactly right production.

Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

This episode was mixed by Liana Scolaci.

Our researchers are Maren McGlashen and Allie Elkin.

Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com.

Follow the show on Instagram at myfavorite murder.

Listen to MyFavorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And now you can watch us on Exactly Right's YouTube page.

While you're there, please like and subscribe.

Goodbye.

This is Larry Flick, owner of the floor store.

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Go to floorstores.com to find the nearest of our 10 showrooms from Santa Rosa to San Jose.

The Floor Store, your area flooring authority.

Betrayal Weekly is back for season two with brand new stories.

The detective comes driving up fast and just like screeches right in the parking lot.

I swear I'm not crazy, but I think he poisoned me.

I feel trapped.

My breathing changes.

I realize, wow, like he is not a mentor.

He's pretty much a monster.

But these aren't just stories of destruction.

They're stories of survival.

I'm going to tell my story and I'm going to hold my head up.

Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I just think the process and the journey is so delicious.

That's where all the good stuff is.

You just can't live and die by the end result.

That's comedian Phoebe Robinson.

And yeah, those are the kinds of gems you'll only hear on my podcast, The Bright Side.

I'm your host, Simone Boyce.

I'm talking to the brightest minds in entertainment, health, wellness, and pop culture.

And every week, we're going places in our communities, our careers, and ourselves.

So join me every Monday and let's find the bright side together.

Listen to The bright side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.