Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 54: Valet Area

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Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

Every Wednesday, and you might know this, we go back and we recap our old shows and we give it all new commentary, we give it updates, we bring some insights, we do our thing.

And today we're doing our thing with episode 54, which we named Valet Area.

This episode came out on February 2nd, 2017, year two of the podcast.

We were in it.

We were in it.

So let's listen to the intro of episode 54.

That was

moments of staring at each other.

I thought we were going to say hi at the same time.

I know, but I didn't know when you were going to start ready.

Same here.

Hi.

How are you?

What the f?

What the f?

Welcome to my favorite murder.

It's a show where we talk at the same time.

Time.

Time.

Time.

That's George Hardstar.

That's Karen Kilgareff.

This is my favorite murder.

Welcome.

So glad you could make it.

Thanks for coming.

Thanks for staying for at least 10 minutes, we hope.

Give us 10.

We're going to do this for 10 minutes, just a lot of back and forth.

Yep, yep.

If you're into that, hang out.

If no, bye-bye.

Yeah.

See you in 20, actually 20 minutes when we start the murders.

See you in 45 minutes when I begin to commit to the project that is my favorite murder.

Yeah, we're being realistic now.

Do you love your nail?

You got a manicure.

Oh, I got a manicure today.

I did need to look at my nails.

I know.

Isn't it fun?

You're gazing lovingly at your nails.

I've never seen you do that before.

Here's the thing, and I just talked about this, but to you, but

having, so now I work on Guy Branham's TV show.

And on this TV show, I get for

sometimes 8:30 in the morning,

I get

three grown women who stand around me doing my hair and makeup for hours.

And it is so fun.

I love it.

And like people just teasing my hair for like 45 minutes straight.

The best.

And shaping it.

So I have really good hair.

Doing makeup, very lightly brushing my face for an hour.

Amazing.

I start to realize like on the first day, because this is a very collapsed schedule.

It's been hard.

We've worked a lot.

So we're recording on a Sunday instead of a Tuesday.

That's right.

Because this next week is going to be the same and crazy.

But so the first day we went to tape, I sat down at my, so it's a, it's called Talk Show the Game Show.

Guy is hosting Guy Branham, friend of the show, expert lawyer, Guy Branham.

It's a talk show.

He's the host.

And I'm a judge where people come out and they get, they do an interview with Guy, and then I judge them and tell them how they did.

God, that sounds like a dream job.

Just like

super fun.

Yeah, and you don't get judged.

You just talk shit on them.

Hell no.

They can't say shit to me.

Don't fucking talk to me.

But going through, like, basically, the beauty, a glam squad every morning makes me realize how, like, the first day after I left, Diane, who's my makeup person, handed me a mask.

And she goes, why don't you put this on tonight?

Oh, my.

And it was basically like thing by thing where it's like, oh, yeah, that's right.

Like, I go home and then just go to sleep and don't want to.

They're like, can you make our lives a little easier, please?

Can you not make this so that we have to put you together like a wax goddamn dummy?

And so then, you know, like one day I realized I have to hold up signs.

I need to paint my fingernails.

Yeah, no, dude, I get it.

When you're like, oh, this person, I have done the bare minimum of looking good.

Yes.

And now, but then once I do it, it's like, oh, this is fun.

Doesn't it feel nice to take care, to pamper yourself?

It really does.

So today, I really like it.

So today I was like, I just did my nails last week really fast.

I do that too.

But so today I went and got a manicure.

Oh my God.

In Silver Lake.

And it was nice.

And the lady, Rose,

did it really awesomely.

So sweet that you find out the names of your menu.

She asked me my name and then I asked her her name.

I love it.

It was fun.

When I went to leave, also, but my glam ended because it was the weekend, so I had no makeup on and fuck that.

Looked a lot like a scumbag.

You saw me that morning.

Went to leave.

I told you in the morning, you look beautiful.

Well, I can't have it.

I don't think I said beautiful.

I think I said, you look so pretty.

Right.

I think beautiful is a little bit more.

And then I was like, get away from me in the valet area and ran away from you i was i was working ballet that

george had her little hat on and she brought my car around i told her to get away from me

went and got a manicure as i was getting rung up a girl who was getting her manicure looked up at me and goes karen and i go yeah because i was like oh does she work with me is it somebody that like i haven't talked to that much whatever and then she goes I love your podcast.

But she was like, she was getting a manicure, so she was kind of weirdly stuck.

It wasn't like we could shake hands or say hi or anything and I immediately got so self-conscious that I had like these crazy nice nails and then other than that I really looked like I rolled out from under a bridge I was like oh thanks bye and just ran away so quickly so I just wanted to say to that girl if you're listening which she might have quit at this point because I was so not all that friendly to her hi hi I'm sorry I didn't ask you what your name was I'm sorry I didn't say I sorry I didn't have a moment with you I was kind of embarrassed um I'm kind of embarrassed in general.

It's just like, how are you feeling today?

Kind of embarrassed.

Kind of generally embarrassed.

Yeah.

But I'm working on it.

Yeah.

But I feel hi to her.

But the thing is, too, that she knows so much about you at this point and like doesn't expect you to like, she doesn't think you're going to be Chrissy fucking Teigen.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Like we haven't fucking positioned ourselves to be Chrissy fucking.

I mean, Chrissy Teigen seems like a chill chick, but like, I wish she looked for some reason.

I can't drop the Chrissy Teigen expectation.

It's my problem.

Oh, yeah.

No one.

I kind of am like, oh, maybe I look like, I kind of get that because I'm like, I'm not wearing makeup anymore.

And then I'll see myself sometimes and be like, oh my God, I look like I'm on my way to rehab.

Yes.

And like, do people, like my neighborhood fucking cafe, are they like, is she okay?

I have like some acne scars right now.

So it looks a little like I've been picking at my face.

You know, like, yes.

I want to be

presentable.

Presentable.

You want to be presentable.

If my mom saw me, who's a fucking really into images, everything, she'd be like, she'd be worried about me.

My mom, I have a tape in my head of my mom who used to always, if you would like walk through the kitchen, it would just be like after school one day or like casual time.

My mom would be the one to go, Oh, God, put some lipstick on.

You look like a corpse.

That was like her great quote.

So, I have that kind of thing where I'm like, Really, in the house, you need me to wear lipstick, lady?

It's so mom's, the minute she sees me, she tells me how something I am doing that she likes it better when I do the other way around.

Like, if I have short hair, oh, I like your hair longer.

Not like, you look cute.

It's like, oh, I like your hair shorter.

Like, it's just like, here's what you've done that doesn't please me.

Yes.

And, and I'm like, fuck you.

You voted for Trump.

What are you fucking, here's what you fucking mom.

That's right.

You don't get to tell me nothing anymore.

No, no, no, no, no.

Moms.

Moms and dads.

Do we have corners?

Oh.

I have a couple corners.

Can I tell you something?

Yes,

Darrell.

Yes.

Vince and I have this.

I'm going to to share a real intimate, not intimate, but an inside joke that my husband and I have that we're the only people who know what this is.

And we kind of love it and share it together.

And I'm going to just tell a few people right now.

And every time we say any kind of corner thing, I think of this.

And Vince, so

whenever the word corner comes up, Vince and I say to each other, corner, corner, corner.

And the reason is because we would go to this like late night diner in Los Felos called House of Pies.

That's like the fucking best, like old school diner.

And there was this chick who was a waitress there who was like, like late night waitress you could tell she was on like adder all and fucking like buzzing on coffee and shit she was really cool but she was like clearly buzzing and every time she'd have hot plates on her you know when you're a waitress and you have to say behind you behind you when you're like behind someone with plates so they don't walk into you she would come around the corner with these hot plates and go corner corner corner corner corner corner corner so you'd be like eating your chicken bot behind or whatever and you're just hearing corner corner corner and i would just fucking crack up so whenever we hear someone say corner and this is like three years ago and we're still like corner corner corner.

No, now I just told everyone.

So, let's do corner, corner, corner.

I love it.

Is it corner, corner, corner time?

It is.

Well, we were at that live show.

We got to meet some people afterwards, and there were two different girls who took the time to tell us that we, this podcast meant a lot to them because they were going through a really hard time.

And that they were like, One, the one girl said it.

I'm sorry, I don't remember your name.

The way you phrased it was, you were these great voices in my head when I only had bad voices in my head.

And it was so touching to me, but it also was the same exact thing that a different girl said.

And I was like, I said to her, just so you know, that's just what someone else said.

Shut up.

I don't remember this.

Yeah.

That's the first girl said.

And I was like, someone else just said that.

And then she was like, oh, where I was like, I wanted to go like, go over there and talk to her, but that's weird.

But

it was just very,

A, it was very touching that we could help somebody that would be in that position.

But B, if you are in that position and you have those feelings,

get help, figure out a way to find a therapist, go online, look it up.

It's good to get help for yourself and it's good to solve those problems.

There are solvable problems.

We've both been there.

And it's good to have friends too.

And I have to say the Facebook group is, those people are.

Everyone's becoming friends and everyone will talk to you and everyone will help you with something.

And it's like a really good resource for people who listen to this because they need help.

Yeah.

I think.

I mean, I completely also get help from a fucking professional, but it is a really cool, like, I think a lot of people are making friends off of it.

Yeah, it seems like it.

Yeah.

And we relate because, and we talk about this all the time.

Like, there are lots of podcasts I listen to that when I listen to them, it like it's my friends who have their own podcast or it's somebody else, you know, whatever that I love.

But like, I start listening to it and I feel better.

I feel like I'm with people I like.

I feel like I'm hanging out.

Like my loneliness goes away.

My anxiety goes away.

And so we get it.

I'm not laughing at you.

I'm laughing at this meme I saw that says on the top

what I'm like when I listen to podcasts.

And it's this, did you see this?

It's this billboard of these three cute girls like eating ice cream.

And then there's this dude sitting next to the billboard like laughing along with them and eating a bowl of ice cream.

And it's like, me too.

It's like how you listen to podcasts, which I fucking, I'm the same way.

Completely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Now we have Laura Kilgare Corner.

Oh,

that's sister, sister, sister corner.

So my sister goes on to the Facebook page and tells me stories that she loves and she has great taste.

So this one is especially awesome.

And it's Kristen Michelle McClure's story that she posted on the Facebook page.

And it's fucking crazy.

So she says her boyfriend was sick.

So she drove up to McAllister's in Addison, Texas to pick up some food and iced tea for dinner.

And the parking lot was pretty dark.

And the only people there that late were the staff and one woman who left shortly after she got there.

And when she got her order, she walked outside to see the woman from before smoking a cigarette.

And suddenly she comes over to me.

I switched it, now it's first person.

Suddenly she comes over to me and says, hi, oh my god, it's so good to see you.

How have you been?

And I'm sure I looked very confused as I responded, I'm sorry, I think you have me confused

with someone else.

I don't think I know you.

And her voice got quiet and she said, Pretend like you do.

There's a man hiding behind your car.

Fucking chills, you guys.

I'm a very observant and spatially aware person, but I never would have known he was there if it wasn't for this amazing lady.

So I let her walk me to my car.

And as I do, she explains that she saw him lurking as she was leaving and got a bad feeling.

So she decided to wait for me.

What an angel, baby.

That is so incredibly nice.

And we really need to be doing that for each other.

Yes.

Sure enough, we get to my car and a man in a hoodie stands up from behind my passenger rear side and nonchalantly walks into the dumpster alley.

Dumpster alleys where fucking lurkers lurk.

So as we're saying goodbye, she smiled and said, stay sexy, don't get murdered.

What the fuck are the chances?

A fellow murderino probably saved me from being robbed, assaulted, kidnapped, murdered, God knows what.

And I'm so thankful for her.

I didn't catch her name, but if you're listening or but if you're reading this thank you let's listen to mfm drink wine and catch and watch murder documentaries sometime so then there's an update from um chaney coles with this girl holy shit it's chaney coles kristen michelle mcclure and emily burke and chaney coles is saying so a lot of you probably saw kristen's post yesterday about how a fellow murderino saved her when a hooded man was hiding behind her car at mcalester's if you didn't scroll down it's a crazy story.

I live in Dallas, so I commented that I wanted to be her friend since we're practically neighbors.

A few chats via messenger and Facebook friendship later.

She and I and my Marterino best friend Emily met for drinks last night and discussed all kinds of murders.

The tables around us thought we were weird, but we had a great time.

This podcast and this group makes me so happy.

Murderinos Unite is the last line.

That's so sweet.

When my sister sent me that, I started crying and I was like, that's the coolest.

That idea right there of somebody noticing something that might be bad and taking the time to look out for another person and the idea that the reason they might do that is because they were emboldened by the shit that you and I say.

I saw it.

My therapist is trying to make me cry more and I'm going to try to do it because I really want to, but I, there's something inside of me that won't let me do it.

But stop it.

Yes, keep going.

I'm so proud of us.

I left therapy the other day and just texted you.

I'm really proud of us.

You did.

That's right.

Okay, I'm proud of us too.

I want to cry.

We'll just don't do it now.

I mean, Jesus Christ.

And you're like sitting there like, I've got to cry on this body.

I already did it today, so that's, I got it out of the way.

You did it at lunch.

It's just a cool thing.

It's like, you know, it's a beautiful thing.

That's the point.

It's so wonderful.

And that's it.

That's fine.

I'm just proud of, I'm proud of us.

Good job, everybody.

Good job, you guys.

We fucking did it.

We're staying sexy.

We're not getting murdered.

We're making friends.

Extending yourself to people who might be in a, in a bad place, that's kind of like that's the that's what we're looking for these days yeah and we're fucking like we're putting those fucking dumpstered alley lurkers in their place of like no you can't fucking you can't do this dude no

or you know maybe that guy was peeing either way that girl got in her car and got home safe in the end peers can attack people too you know he maybe he was doing both maybe he had a pee and it could have been a pee attack a pee attack oh um this has been my favorite murder goodbye that was that was gorgeous um

Oh, my phone just told me Robert Durst hearings are,

is it tomorrow?

Oh, February 15th.

Sorry.

It came up as an alert just now.

That's really weird.

All right.

Good job.

Hey, should we talk about

how many minutes was that?

We told people 10 minutes.

22.

What the fuck?

Hey, Siri, how many minutes?

Oh my God.

Sorry just started talking to me without me pressing anything.

You think my new place is haunted?

Yes.

Misia.

And we're back.

Oh, is this where Corner, Corner, Corner started?

It is.

I don't remember me running away from you at the valet.

What was that whole story?

No idea.

Because I was like racking my brain of like, where were we?

Oh, remember when you stepped off the curb at that restaurant across from Meltdown?

And you twisted your ankle.

That was

Shibo.

But I also remember the time we were walking out of, I think it was Milwaukee live show.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I just stepped off, did the exact same thing.

I've done it many times.

You don't need a valet to twist your fucking head.

Hell no, I'll do it anytime.

So that Facebook group story that we talk about in here, to me, was the dawning of the galvanized community vibe of Murderinos, as opposed to the, I'd say the first year is like you and me blabbing it up, saying whatever the fuck that came into our minds, not understanding it was being recorded and posted forever.

Right.

And that we would be hearing about that.

So I think to me, that was the first year of like, wait, what are we actually doing?

Yeah.

And this is before people started realizing that their coworker or their sister's friend or their running club partner was also listening.

Right.

And then forming a bond over it.

Right.

And then that Facebook story is almost like then the bond was, I'm going to go out into the world with this energy.

So if I see some weird shit happening to some girl I don't know, I'm going to back her up.

That's right.

It's amazing.

Beautiful thing.

Yeah.

We're so proud.

We were just kind of like the

thing around which people decided they were going to do things the way they wanted to do them.

There you go.

Right?

All right.

Well, should we get into it?

Let's do it.

This episode is two awful, awful stories of two of the worst men that have ever existed.

For real.

This first one, this is George's story about Nathaniel Barjona.

There's more to San Francisco with the Chronicle.

There's more food for thought, more thought for food.

There's more data insights to help with those day-to-day choices.

There's more to the weather than whether it's going to rain.

And with our arts and entertainment coverage, you won't just get out more, you'll get more out of it.

At the Chronicle, knowing more about San Francisco is our passion.

Discover more at sfchronicle.com.

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Goodbye.

I think you're first this week.

Okay.

So

let's start.

What was that show called that you recently told me?

The new detectives?

I had a story and then realized when looking it up that they had covered the story on that show.

Not new detectives.

Real detectives.

Real detectives.

And so there was so much more to the story.

So I was like, okay, I'm still going to do this, but I'm going to give a shout out to the show Karen likes at the same time.

All right.

So in Worcester, Massachusetts in 1964, a kid named Nathaniel Bart Jonah is seven years old.

He tells a five-year-old neighbor that he had just gotten a Ouija board, and she follows him into his basement to play with it.

He attempts to strangle the five-year-old girl.

The seven-year-old attempts to strangle the five-year-old girl.

She screams.

His own mother comes down and rescues her.

So, like, his mom knows something's up already.

You know what I mean?

So, this fucking seven-year-old cut to six years later in 1970, he's 13 years old.

He lures another neighbor, a six-year-old boy, to a nearby hill saying that he wants to go sledding with him.

And of course, he didn't go sledding.

He ends up sexually assaulting the kid.

And then in March 1975, 17-year-old Nathaniel Barjona, he's doing the fucking classic impersonation of an officer, a police officer, abducts an eight-year-old kid named Richard O'Connor, who's on his way to school, sexually assaults, and strangles him.

A neighbor saw this happening and notifies the police.

They find a car matching the description in a parking lot.

They get him out of the car, and the kid is found in the car near death, but alive.

So

Nathaniel is arrested, charged, and convicted.

But he receives, you ready for this?

A year of probation

for this crime.

How?

Yeah, because it's 1970.

But

probation.

The kid's not dead.

I mean, he must have had some insane lawyer or some kind of.

Yeah, that's crazy.

No, I think that happened all the time.

Well, it gets worse.

Okay.

It always gets worse.

So a few days before he graduates from high school, he's again impersonating a police officer and he abducts a nine-year-old girl who he assaults savagely in his car and then later throws her from the car onto a sidewalk.

She's still alive.

And a witness gets his license plate, which leads to his arrest.

And this assault never gets back to his probation officer.

And so he's released from parole from the earlier assault in 1976.

And so

when his probationary period is over, he receives a letter thanking him for his cooperation.

So he never gets.

No.

Sorry, what?

His parole ends in 76.

They catch him, and I don't know if he ever got charged with anything after they found the kid, after he threw her out of her car.

But the parole officer never finds, or probation officer never finds out about it, so nothing is added to his side.

So, in September 1977, he's claiming to be an undercover FBI agent, and he convinces two boys to get into his car.

He goes to a secluded area with them, and he handcuffs them and assaults them.

And he thought he had killed one of the boys, so he took the other one still alive in his trunk and drove off.

But the kid he thought was dead was not dead.

He regains consciousness and fucking finds help.

And the boy who was kidnapped is found still alive in Nathaniel's trunk.

So he's caught, convicted of attempted murder, and gets the maximum sentence of 18 to 20 years in prison.

So fucking finally, he's being incarcerated.

So while he's incarcerated, he tells

a psychologist there about his fantasies of murder, dissection, and cannibalism.

It's a psychiatrist.

And she, that psychiatrist decides to commit him to the Bridgewater State Hospital for the sexual predators, which I think means that you don't have a release date.

I think they can keep you indefinitely.

I could be wrong.

Guy Brennan, please let me know.

So he stays in the hospital

from 79 to 91

when there's a hearing before Superior Court Judge Walter E.

Steele, who needs to be fucking named.

Two psychiatrists say that

Nathaniel Barjona is a danger to society and he should not be let out.

Two of them said he isn't.

So we got two and two.

The judge sides with the, I said, the judge sided with the stupid ones and said that he thought that Nathaniel Barrajona would not commit the crime again and decided that he, the state had failed to prove he was dangerous.

So this dude, fucking Superior Court judge Walter E.

Steele, lets Barjona out.

Does his family have money?

He must have amazing lawyers.

I don't think it was that difficult then, though.

You know what I mean?

There's no Megan's Law.

There's none of this shit where like, where they think think predators and sexual abusers are even important enough to let their next-door neighbor who has children know that they're there.

Like, it's not a priority.

Yeah, but it's,

I mean, these are attacks.

They're physical attacks.

It just doesn't make sense.

It doesn't make sense.

It would just be like

he attacks a little girl, throws her out of a car, and

thanks for doing such a great job on your parole.

Like, that doesn't even track.

No, it doesn't.

And it's the same when we're talking with Guy Brennan, where it's like, well, his intent was to kill these people.

Why isn't he kept in prison in the same amount of time that someone who had actually killed them are?

And it's just, because he got lucky for, you know, he just kept getting lucky.

But I mean, that's beyond lucky where he's not getting arrested for it.

Yeah.

Like, he's not even.

I think it's a fucked up justice system at the time.

I think that's all it is.

So he leaves.

the institution and he promises to not go back to Massachusetts, that instead he'll go to Montana.

But Megan's Law is still being debated.

It's not enacted yet, which, you know, as everyone knows, Megan's Law is that if you're a sexual offender, you have to notify everyone in the community and they're allowed to know where you live and all this.

So,

okay, so

he has weekly garage sales selling Star Wars memorabilia and stuffed animals that attracts many local children.

And

let's see, within a week, he commits another attack on a child.

And then

no one in Montana is notified of his past crimes at all.

So on February 6th, 1996, 10-year-old Zachary Ramsey is on his way to school at about 7.30 a.m.

He takes his usual school route through the alleyway.

And remember those fucking shortcuts he used to take to school?

Like the shortcuts I used to take as a kid, the amount of places I could have been murdered in is just more than I couldn't have been murdered in.

You know what I mean?

Like fucking alleyways and like

back alleys and fucking,

what are those called?

Like the river, dry riverbeds and just these horrible places.

And a family who lives in along the alleyway reports seeing him, but also sees an off-white four-door car that nearly runs him over.

Another witness who lived in the area sees him distressed with an obese adult male following him a few feet behind at about 7:45.

Zach then disappears, which is another thing: fucking if you see something, fucking say something.

If you see a little kid upset with

an adult and something doesn't look right, you can be rude and be like, Is everything okay here?

You know what I mean?

You're not going to get in trouble for it.

Um,

let's see.

Okay, So the police investigate Zach Ramsey's

kidnapping, and it turns out that Nathaniel Barjona, who was a known sex offender in the area, although there were a lot of them, has access to his mom's off-white four-door Toyota Corolla the day that Zach goes missing, and his mother was out of town for a funeral, and so he had the house to himself.

And he also didn't work that day.

So he stays away from the police until 99 when he's arrested near an elementary school in Great Falls, Montana.

He's dressed as a policeman.

He's carrying a stun gun and pepper spray and is like fucking

targeting one of the kids there.

And they search his apartment and they find a list of boys' names, including previous victims that he had actually had and the name Zachary Ramsey, the last word of which was died, because he had done these crazy

encryptions.

And so when the FBI finally took apart everything, they found all of these names.

There's dozens of newspaper clippings found in his apartment following the Zach Ramsey case.

And a former roommate said that he found clothes in his apartment which matched Zachary Ramsey's clothes that he was wearing the day he disappeared and bloody gloves.

So they also found encrypted menus referring to cannibalizing children.

And there were actual,

I don't want to, I don't know if you want to hear them, but like names of

meals that were like puns on children being the fucking on the menu.

It's pretty fucking it's like it's almost it's too like it tastes too light.

I don't like it, but it's gross.

Because he thinks he's being like funny.

Yeah, it's just a disgusting sense of humanity.

Yeah, it's not, it's not amusing in any way.

It's fucked up.

And it's also said that he possibly

cut up and served

human meat of his victims to his neighbors at barbecues and cookouts and stews and hamburgers.

And there was one woman, his neighbor, who said, This tastes really weird.

What is this?

And he said, Oh, it's a deer I found, and I cut it up myself.

And she remembers

it tasting weird.

I mean, can you have barbecues?

Fucking imagine the eating disorder you would have if you were that neighbor.

Can you imagine ever trying?

You'd be vegan for the rest of your life.

Oh my god, that's

never eat meat again.

I know.

This is really horrible.

I know.

Okay, and they also find a list of 22 names, many of which were past victims, known victims, but several have never been accounted for.

And they also dug up the yard and found 21 bone fragments of a yet-to-be-identified boy estimated between 8 and 13.

And it's not Zach Ramsey's bones.

Okay, so in July 2000, he's charged with Zach Ramsey's murder and for kidnapping and sexually assaulting three other boys who lived above him in an apartment complex who he would babysit who was the mom would just leave him leave the kids with him even though she was like yeah one of them started acting real weird after i'd let him babysit and it's like i didn't you know

um

so but the charges involving zach ramsey's murder are dropped because the the Zach's mom refused to believe that he was dead and so would testify that Barjona or Nathaniel Barjona never killed her son.

She was going to testify to that.

But he's sentenced for the other charges to 130 years in prison.

It's for sexually assaulting one kid and torturing another.

And on April 13, 2008, Nathaniel Barjona is found dead in his prison cell.

His death is either a heart attack or a brain clot.

I can't really, a lot of different

articles.

And then eventually a judge declares Zach Ramsey legally dead in 2011, despite his mom still objecting to that.

How fucked up is that?

It's super fucked up.

I just feel, it's like one of those murder, it's like one of those articles that's like 10 serial killers you've never fucking, or 10 monsters you've never heard of.

And like, why are, you know, why are these other people heard of?

And he's not.

He's just as huge of a fucking monster.

Well, that's the real detectives that I saw.

Yeah.

That was the first one I saw.

With the detective who's like crying.

It was crazy.

And he chased that guy forever.

And he literally chased,

he tracked him down.

And by the time somebody said, Oh, well, that like he kept hearing, oh, they went on the shortcut.

So he walked the shortcut himself finally.

Like, it was like beat cops were telling him the information.

So he finally himself walked the shortcut.

And when he came up the alley, Bar Jonas was standing at the top of the alley, dressed like a security guard across the street from the grammar school.

And the guy in the show is like,

you know, like, and that's when I knew I had my guy.

And the most horrible part, like, I looked into that too, of like, oh, would this be a good one to do?

The details are so fucking disturbing.

They're really dark.

It's awful.

Yeah.

It's just like, yeah, it's that kind of thing where it's like, oh, that's interesting.

I feel like maybe that's a reason why he's one that you don't hear that much about.

It's because it's like insanely disgusting and awful.

And he did it to a bunch of kids.

But what's so surprising to me about this story, and one of the reasons I think it's important to talk about is because Zach Ramsey was taking these shortcuts in 1996.

Like, it wasn't the 80s or even the early 90s, which is when I was doing those things.

It seems like more recent, and I feel like he was alone early in the morning, and I know it seems like a well-traveled place, and everyone's going to school, but you can't.

You can't do those things.

I don't think anyone does anymore.

And especially because people saw that happening and were like, this is weird, and like went on with their day.

Right.

It's just so troubling.

Well, and also that guy dressed, he did, I mean, he was like a real,

he knew what he was doing.

Like, dressing like a security guard, that thing that people fall for all the time, where it's like, oh, it's a cop, it's a security guard.

It's the person standing outside the school that's dressed like an official must be a good person.

And to see, like, yeah, it's, yeah, it's crazy.

And also, that he

did it.

I mean, the idea that like his first thing was when he was seven years old.

I couldn't find any information about his childhood and how,

you know, it could have not been fucked up at all.

He could just be fucking crazy, but there had to be something going on that he would try to strangle a five-year-old when he was seven.

Yeah, makes you think of Mary Bell.

Yeah, totally.

Just an outright evil kid.

But also what's happened.

I mean, Mary Bell was...

a total victim as a very young child, and that affects you.

And I wonder what could have happened.

Like his mom found him strangling a little girl.

You know, what could have been done to help him at that age?

Yeah.

And clearly nothing was.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Clearly.

So intense.

Yeah.

But also the really creepy thing is like seven.

It's like the movie seven where he had all these notebooks, just tons and tons and tons of notebooks that they recovered.

Yeah.

That was, he obsessively wrote about, I mean, he was, yeah, he was insanely crazy.

It's like he knew that if he did get caught, he wanted there to be as much information as possible so he'd be talked about.

Yeah.

And then I did it.

And if you watched that episode of Real Detectives, the real detective that solved that case,

who talks about it, like at one point, is crying on camera.

Like he is so clearly, it's one of those things where that's the case of a lifetime.

Yeah.

And the horror, so horrible.

Yeah.

Yep.

Horrifying.

Yeah.

Okay.

we're done with that now.

Let's

talk about that again.

Are there updates on this horrible case?

Horrible case, no updates, but two books have come out recently about his crimes: Preponderance of Evil, the Nathaniel Barr Jonah story by Laurie Olson, and also the book, Eat the Evidence, by Dr.

John E.

Espey.

Those two came out in the past few years.

So, if you want more info, I mean, I've done deep dives since then on this story.

It's just so awful, but

there you go.

All right, let's get into another terrible fucking person.

God.

And much more famous.

Much more famous.

Let's hear Karen's story about none other than Rodney Alcala, the dating game killer.

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Goodbye.

You want to go?

Woo!

You mean leave right now?

Um, mine is

very well known this week.

It's Rodney Alcala, the dating game killer.

This one I've seen, like, I've seen the forensic files of this guy.

I have seen like a 2020, like almost everything on Discovery ID.

There's been every version of one of those shows, they have featured this guy.

Because it's the dating game thing is such a fucking

that's what did it for his fame.

Yeah, it's so insane.

But there was one of those shows that kind of reverse engineered it where they followed the victim.

And now I don't remember the show.

I don't remember which victim it is because he has so very many.

But it's that thing where basically this girl goes missing and her family's trying to find her.

Her family's trying to find her.

And then eventually this cache of photographs because Rodney Alcala is the photographer.

And when he's finally arrested and they start going through thousands and thousands of photographs, they find a picture of her.

And they finally realize, I think it was the hiker.

She was a hiker and she was like a real outdoors woman.

And then they find a picture among all these really disturbing pictures.

And they can't identify all.

Like, there's so many of those photos are like tons of people.

Do you know who this is?

Or are they missing or what?

Cold cases.

They say they're still online.

Okay, so here's the basic story.

And we'll start it here.

In 1978, on the popular TV show, The Dating Game, host Host Jim Lang introduced Rodney Alcala as bachelor number one,

is a successful photographer who got his start when his father found him in the darkroom at age 13, fully developed.

What?

Well, that's the show.

Have you ever seen that show?

So it's like sexual innuendo.

Basically, it's basically like the fun sexual innuendo when you're not a serial rapist and killer is fun, but when you are is so horrifying.

And the rest of that is between takes, you might find him skydiving or motorcycling.

Or murdering.

Actor Jed Mills, who was bachelor number two on the show and competed against Alcala,

described him as a very strange guy with very bizarre opinions.

And the funny thing is, the bachelorette, Cheryl Bradshaw, chose Alcala.

He won the dating game, but when she met him, she refused to go out with him because she found him so creepy.

Oh my God, I want to talk to her.

She was right to find him creepy because he had already raped an eight-year-old girl and murdered four women when he was on that show.

Four women already?

Four women.

And then he's like, I'm going to go on TV.

And hockey.

So he was basically mid-killing spree

that had started.

They believe in, well, he raped the eight-year-old girl in 1968.

And then the killing began soon after.

And he's in the middle of all that goes on a game show.

So yeah, he's completely out of his goddamn mind and kind of like Luke Luca Magnotti, like it's that thing of like,

I want to be famous.

I want everyone to see me.

You can't catch me.

Yeah.

I'm smart.

I'm smarter than everybody.

He did have 160 IQ.

So he kind of was smarter than everybody in a way.

Fair enough.

So

He committed his first known crime in 1968.

A motorist in Los Angeles called the police after watching him lure an eight-year-old girl named Tally Shapiro into his Hollywood apartment.

The girl was found alive, raped, and beaten with a steel bar, but Alcala had already fled.

So, to evade the resulting arrest warrant, he left the state and he enrolled in NYU film school under the name John Berger, where he studied under Roman Polanski.

Oh, that's convenient.

Oh,

um,

then he obtained in 1971, he got a counseling job at a New Hampshire arts camp for children

using a different alias, John Berger.

But in June of 1971, Cornelia Crilley, a 23-year-old trans

TWA flight attendant, was found raped and strangled in her Manhattan apartment.

That Cornelia's murder would remain unsolved for 40 years.

Holy shit.

So she was one of the ones that, when they found the pictures, started putting it up all together.

I feel like this person was missing or murdered.

We don't know.

Yeah.

Oh my God.

So

now Al Calo's on the, in 1971, he goes on the 10 Most Wanted Fugitives list.

And a few months later, two children who are at this arts camp that he got the job at, they notice his photo on an FBI poster at the post office and they finger him.

Fuck yeah, they do.

Some kids.

So he's extradited to California.

But by then, that eight-year-old girl that he had attacked,

her parents had relocated the entire family to Mexico and they weren't coming back.

Yeah.

So they were unable to convict him

of rape and attempted murder.

So the prosecutors were forced to permit him to plead

to a lesser charge

of assault.

So he's paroled after 34 months.

And

assault.

Yeah.

He

basically, if it's the same thing, if he demonstrated evidence of rehabilitation, he got out early.

He'd be nice for 34 months and you can get out whenever the fuck you want.

Right.

So two months after his release, he's rearrested after assaulting a 13-year-old girl

who he had offered a ride to school and she thought she was just getting a ride to school.

And again, he's paroled after serving two years of an indeterminate sentence.

So after that release from prison,

a LA parole officer takes the unusual step of permitting this repeat offender and known flight risk to travel to New York City.

Now,

irritating, but if he has 160 IQ and he is this level psychopath, he's probably incredibly charming and incredibly speculative.

Yeah.

Totally.

So he's, he's, you know, he's.

I mean, it just sucks.

He makes it work.

Yeah.

It's crazy.

Well, a lot of people just aren't capable of handling this level.

This is like it's super villain.

Yeah, it's savvy as fuck.

And even a person who's of normal intelligence don't understand the like

the nuances of manipulation, probably.

Right.

Have you seen the show Good Behavior with the girl who's the who's Mary from Downton Abbey?

No.

It's really good.

Is it?

I love when we do

TV show recommendations.

It's well, and also, so in it, she's she's like a con woman and she does these things.

Like she started off being a con woman because she was addicted to drugs, but now she's doing it just to get money.

And like, you watch it.

It's really good.

But she does these things.

And it's, you see how easy it would be to fall for it because like she'll go in and she'll, she has a really nice outfit on and she looks like she has a lot of money and she's like a high-end resort.

And then she's like shopping for jewelry.

So she'll be like, oh, can I see that there?

My husband wants my husband said I could get one thing and so I'm going to pick it.

And so while the guy, she's shopping and chatting and giggling and they're drinking champagne.

And then she's making the guy go get her things away from the counter.

And while he's gone, she's just loading her purse with the jewelry she's trying on.

But she's doing these switch arounds.

So she's like, never,

you know what I mean?

It's all very believable.

And then she walks out.

He's not going to know anything is gone until way later.

And it's, that's what it makes me think of.

Did she see the movie Paper Moon?

It's one of my favorite movies in the world.

With the O'Neill them.

Shadow O'Neill and Ryan O'Neill, and they do that, and it's they're they're grifters, and it's just one of my absolute favorite movies, and you would never fucking know what they're doing.

It's so good.

Well, that's because you have to be good to get away with it, yeah, and that's how you're good.

Casual, you have to be casual about it, and you have to be like friendly and kind of charming and alluring, so people are like, oh, no, it would never be her.

The pretty, they're probably good-looking.

I get nervous that people think I'm shoplifting, even when I have no intention and I'm never going to shoplift.

It's like, I'm still like, I'm not shoplifting.

So, you have to be pretty fucking

steely, but also like super charming.

So clearly, that's this guy.

So he convinces his parole officer to let him go to New York.

And while he's there, a week after he gets to Manhattan, he kills Ellen Jane Hover, who is 23, and the daughter of the owner of Ciro's, which is a Hollywood nightclub.

She was the goddaughter of Dean Martin and Sammy Davis Jr.

She was like an heiress.

She had a lot of money.

And her remains were found buried on the grounds of the Rocastelle, the Rockefeller

estate in Westchester County.

How did he even get in there?

Well,

it's

no idea.

He probably went to like a club, and she was there.

And he's, you see pictures of him.

He's super creepy now because you see pictures of him in gel, and he has like really long,

like salt and pepper, creepy, curly hair.

Ramen, dry ramen.

Yes.

But you know, back then it was like the late 70s, and it was that kind of looking for Mr.

Goodbar era of like pickup clubs, and everyone was like post-hippie,

you know, feeling it era.

I don't know.

But he also did the thing where he was a photographer.

He was playing like the artist side.

For a little while, he worked at the LA Times as a typesetter, and he was at one point interviewed

by the members of the Hillside Strangler Task Force as part of their investigation when they were interviewing known sex offenders.

He was ruled out as the Hillside Strangler, but he got arrested and served a brief sentence for marijuana possession.

So they got him for that.

Thank God.

But he also, during this time, he convinced a bunch of young men and women that he was a professional fashion photographer and photographed them for his portfolio.

And he showed that portfolio to his coworkers at the LA Times.

And there were people who are quoted as saying, They should I thought it was weird, but I didn't, you know, I didn't know because he said he was like a fashion photographer.

And so I just remember there was a bunch of naked girls.

Oh my gosh.

And he would show it to people like,

this is my portfolio.

Creepy.

It's so fucking creepy.

So he's totally flaunting it.

And of course, everyone's just like, oh, I guess that's high fashion photography.

So in 1979,

he knocks unconscious and rapes 15-year-old Monique Hoyt as she's posing

for him for one of those shoots.

And

then he goes on the dating game, which was also in, I believe, 1979, around that same time.

And they think that because, or he was on the dating game in 1978.

So they think because of that

rejection of the girl

on the

dating game being like, there's no fucking way I'm going out with that guy.

Because right after that, a 12-year-old girl from Huntington Beach named Robin Samso

disappeared on her way.

between the beach and ballet class.

It was June 20th, 1979 when this happened.

12 days later, her deep, composing body was found in the Los Angeles foothills.

I know I did.

I did something like that, a guy saying, I'm a photographer when I was like 17.

No, like 18.

And you did what?

I went and took photos with him in the fucking Santa Monica Mountains.

Holy shit.

I've never told anyone this.

This guy should have killed me.

But he just took pictures of you and drove you home?

Yeah, he was a regular at this restaurant I was working at and was like, he came in all the time he was like i'm a photographer i'd love to take photos of you and i'm like okay and we went up to santa monica hills and that was when i was like oh i'm alone with this guy in the forest in the hills overlooking the ocean and like there was he was so nice at the restaurant and the minute his eye went to the camera lens he looked fucking evil.

I remember thinking, you need to fucking, this is not okay.

And so I kept asking about his mom.

and he kept telling about his mother.

And it was almost like I was, I kind of knew something was not right, and I needed to talk to him a lot.

And then we just went home, but my whole, my heart was racing the whole time.

Jesus.

And I don't know what happened to him.

And I kind of just, I think I quit soon after that.

It was just, I should have been dead.

That's insane.

I know.

And I'm so embarrassed of that that I don't fucking tell people that, but it reminds me so much of the story.

Right.

Well, also, because there's another guy that's on, like, I've seen like three different, you know,

ID discovery things about the guy that he would approach women in malls and say that he was a photographer, that he was a casting director.

Right.

He wanted to take their picture because he was casting for the latest, was it Batman

or some, like the latest big movie.

And they would go meet him

and then they would disappear.

And they were meeting him at houses that were for sale.

Oh, I didn't know that.

Yeah.

So he was going in and basically meeting them in empty, like

houses that he knew that the real estate agent was showing.

He would go have it shown to him, have them meet them there, and then attack them there.

And he had killed a couple of girls, and then one girl got away, and that's how he got caught.

So it's this exact same thing.

And I mean,

I don't want to say it because I feel so stupid, but I was like 18 and I was new to LA and I was so flattered that someone wanted to take my photo and it was the 90s and I didn't understand.

And I thought I knew this person.

He was so nice all the time.

And so when I say fuck politeness, it's because I've done shit that I've probably

been really like unsafe.

And it's just, I want to cry thinking about it.

I feel so fucking stupid for having done that.

Yeah, but that's the whole manipulation is that they're playing on, like,

then we're supposed to be embarrassed that we had.

you know, the pride, oh, who are we to think that we'd have our picture taken?

When actually that's the play.

That's the whole thing is how they get you is like, of course, you're flattered and then you have a little ego stroke.

And then, oh my God, maybe I am a model.

And it's all those things that then it's the shame of that that's supposed to like keep you quiet.

Yeah.

And fuck that shit.

It's like, it's that's that's their doing.

That's what they're doing to you.

Any human being that gets that kind of special attention is going to go, oh my God, yeah, I want that special attention.

That's what we all want.

Yeah.

That's everybody wants to be told that they're pretty and want, you know, have their picture taken.

And that's, it's the easiest way to manipulate people.

And I just remember the moment it took a turn and i got scared and realized something was not right

thank fucking god nothing happened yeah

um okay sorry go on

um

anyway so robin samso's friends uh told the police that a stranger had approached them at the beach asking to take their pictures and

um they circulate a sketch of the photographer.

Alcala's parole officer recognizes him in this sketch.

And then they search his house in Monterey Park and they find a rental receipt for a storage locker in Seattle.

So then they go into that storage locker and they find a pair of Robin Samso's earrings.

So he's basically killing people, taking the

why don't I ever remember the word for it?

The trophy?

Yeah, the trophy, but then he's keeping it like in a different state.

Okay.

So he's arrested in 1979, held without bail.

He's tried, convicted, and sentenced to death for Robin Samso's murder.

But the verdict is overturned because jurors had been improperly informed of his prior sex crimes.

No.

So then in 1986, seven years later, they retry him for the same.

It's the identical trial,

except for...

omission of the prior record and he's convicted again and sentenced to death again

and the ninth circle circuit court of appeals panel nullifies the second conviction why

um in part because a witness was not allowed who was not allowed no sorry a witness was not allowed to support alcala's contention that the park ranger who found samso's body had been quote hypnotized by police investigators so there was somebody that wanted to alcala said um this park ranger was hypnotized by the police that's why he's saying this happened he had a friend who was going to back him up and they were like, no, your friend doesn't get to say that.

And then they find, once they find that out, they're like, the whole thing has to go.

So they keep getting it like on these weird

little details.

All right.

And this goes, I mean, he's in prison the whole time, though, right?

He is.

Yeah, he's held without bail.

I'm not sure.

If you ask me details about this, I'm not going to be able to tell you.

I threw this together so quickly.

But this is the kind of thing you can look up his name and watch 1,000 shows about him.

Because

he basically they say he's like,

because of these pictures and the cold cases that they believe are associated with these pictures, he's only, he only goes to jail for

four murders, but they think he's responsible for over 100.

Holy shit.

They just can't prove it.

Over a hundred.

Over a hundred.

He's one of the worst serial killers ever.

Oh, my God.

And he's still alive and in jail.

Doesn't he keep

appealing?

I keep seeing him in, I keep seeing him getting older and older in like news photos.

Okay.

That crazy hair.

Well, he does, he has all these, and it's crazy because he's, again, one of those geniuses that's like, at one point, he represents himself and

then cross-examines himself and is talking in a deep voice

as one person and then his own voice and the other.

Like, it's that kind of total insanity

thing that you, you know, it's what, that's Ted Bundy.

He represented himself.

They all kind of think like it's, they just think they're invincible and that they're the smartest people in the world.

But essentially, in 2003, Orange County investigators

learned Alcala's DNA

had matched semen left at the rape murder scenes of two women in Los Angeles.

And that's when they start linking cold case DNA to this guy.

and it led to his indictment for the murders of four additional women Jill Barcomb who was 18 a New York runaway who was found rolled up like a ball in a Los Angeles ravine in 1977 they thought she was a victim of the hillside stranglers

Georgia Wickstead 27 who was bludgeoned in her Malibu apartment in 1977

Which is super weird because Malibu is so fucking tony and high-end.

And this is that thing of like that

uh, the sister Cyro's heiress, who he clearly was able to, like, be in and out of very tony high-end places and with those kind of people.

Yeah, you don't break into a like high-end Malibu location.

No, you talk your way in.

Like, I feel weird at Starbucks in Malibu.

Like, you just feel like you don't belong.

Totally, and they know it.

Charlotte Lamb was 31.

She was raped and strangled in the laundry room of her El Segundo apartment complex in 1978.

And Jill Parento, who's 21, who was killed in her Burbank apartment in 1979.

And all of these bodies were found posed in carefully chosen positions.

Which I think then they eventually led to understanding that he was posing them and taking pictures of them.

Oh my God.

And they found another pair of earrings in the Seattle storage locker that matched Charlotte Lamb's DNA.

So they're kind of, it all starts hooking back over and over.

So eventually the police find a collection of more than a thousand photographs, and they're mostly of women and teenage boys in sexually explicit poses.

In his third trial in 2003, prosecutors enter a motion to join the Samso charges with those of the four newly discovered victims.

And

so his attorneys, of course, try to contest it, like basically saying,

you can give benefit of the doubt or whatever they call it, reasonable doubt for one, but you can't do it with four.

But

they ruled in the prosecution's favor, and in February of 2010, he stood trial on five joined charges.

I can't believe it's so recent.

I know, it's not really.

It seems like it should have been so long ago this happened.

Because he was doing it for so fucking long.

But I think it was that thing of they had him on one and he was in jail for one, and then suddenly it was that DNA era that came through and it was like all of a sudden and that's what that was when all those um specials come out is like in those late in the late 90s we're like they just found this guy yeah a lot of them have that feel to it of like this guy pardon me um

he when he was his own lawyer

He showed the jury a portion of his 1978 appearance on the dating game in an attempt to prove that the earrings that were found in that Seattle locker were his own and not Samson's.

And they end up bringing Jed Mills, bachelor number two, to this trial.

What the fuck?

So that he can say, I would have remembered if a guy was wearing earrings.

It was 1978.

He was not wearing earrings.

What the fuck?

Yeah.

Is that crazy?

And then eventually they get...

Talia, the eight-year-old girl that he had raped in the late 60s.

Oh my God, oh my God.

And she comes and testifies

so that they can keep this guy in jail.

Holy shit.

In March 2010, the Huntington Beach and New York City police departments released 120 of his photographs, seeking the public's help to identify the people in them in the hope of determining if any of the women and children he photographed were additional victims.

There are 900 additional

photos that could not be made public because they were too sexually explicit.

So he was like a fucking

hideous kiddie porn, you know, like pornographer, exploitive

pig, obviously.

Wow.

Um,

uh, the police reported that approximately 21 women had come forward to identify themselves, um, and six families said that they believe they recognized loved ones who had disappeared years ago and were never found.

They saw their missing loved ones in these photos, but none of the photos were unequivocally connected to a missing person case or an unsolved murder until 2013 when a family member recognized the photo of Christine Thornton, who was 28, whose body was found in Wyoming in 1982.

I did not even hear about this.

Yeah.

And

as of September 2016, last year, 110 of those original photos remain posted online, and the police continue to solicit the public's help with further identifications.

Let's all go to them right fucking now.

In 2016, he was charged with this 1977 murder of a woman who was identified through one of those photos.

And just

in closing, which I find fascinating and interesting, his diagnoses when he was in court, the psychiatrist diagnosed him as having a narcissistic personality disorder and malignant narcissistic personality disorder with psychopathy and sexual sadism comorbidities.

Jesus.

Comorbidities.

That's the fucking trifecta

you don't want to end up with.

You don't want the word comorbidities

anywhere near you.

No.

Do you want to know what it means?

It's the presence of one or more additional diseases or disorders co-occurring.

Including

liking dead bodies, maybe?

No, I think morbid just is like gruesome or something.

We'll have to ask Guy Brown.

We will have to ask.

I'm sure everyone will tell us on Twitter.

That was not the greatest version of trying to tell the Rodney Al Cowles story.

No,

that was very detailed.

Did I do all right?

You did a great timeline, really interesting.

I had some personal information to share as well.

I liked that.

You know what I mean?

It actually gets worse than that, and I'll tell you afterwards.

Oh, no.

No, I know.

Yeah, that was a good story.

Well, I just recommend anybody that's, if you are slightly interested, take a deep dive because he is

really horrifying and kind of what another one of those lesser-known but very

depraved and horrifying monster people.

This was an episode of Monster People, Monster People for sure.

People from the depths of fucking hell.

Yeah.

And plus the dating game.

Plus the dating game.

Plus the Pacific Northwest has always got a mix in there somehow.

You know, it just has to be in there.

It's depressing.

Oh, Yvette, we're back.

Karen, updates?

There are updates.

So it was eventually confirmed that Rodney Alcala killed at least seven women and young girls.

He was sentenced to death in California.

He died of natural causes in July of 2021 while awaiting that execution.

And then after his death, a woman named Morgan Rowan reached out to investigator Steve Hodel to share details of her 1968 attack.

She was 16 at the the time, and she had met Alcala on a few different occasions.

She was attacked and raped at his house, and her friends broke into the room to rescue her, and then he fled.

Oh, my God.

So she said she was ashamed to tell her parents.

She never reported the attack, thing that happens a lot to women.

Six weeks after, she learns of his attack, rape, and the survival of Tali Shapiro.

And she, of course, struggles with guilt for decades.

Eventually, she connects with Tali and apologizes.

And when she does, Tally tells her there was nothing to forgive.

It wasn't her fault.

And these two survivors, they live a few hours apart in California, but they remain chosen family to each other.

I've seen that there's a documentary about it and these strong, incredible women are in it.

And it's just, I highly recommend it.

Yeah.

Also during the story, I talked about my experience at 18 with that guy who drove me to the Santa Monica Hills to take my picture.

So I've discussed it in our book, Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered in the fuck politeness chapter.

I also talk about on episode 472, Give Me All My Words.

So there you go.

I think that in doing that, though, I think you are in a gray area where you get to speak for people who, if you've had experiences that in your mind, you've always filed it as less than bad, less than a friend's, less than a different story that you've heard, that you're always mitigating your own trauma process basically by saying, don't worry about it because it's not bad.

And you give yourself and then other people permission to go, it's as bad as I say it was to me because it happened to me.

And then also, yeah, for sure.

And then also the understanding that I have of so many moments in my life that I'm sure we all do of like,

by the skin of my teeth, like what could have happened.

And I think about that so much and I'm embarrassed and ashamed.

And so I don't talk about it because I think it's my fault.

I'm stupid for having done that.

But that's not, that's not how we talk about ourselves and our experiences.

No.

And it's certainly not the way the women of today do it.

They don't do that to themselves.

So us Gen Xers and late millennials and all the people that were raised on that bullshit can really just put it aside, I think, from now on.

Definitely.

Yeah.

Okay.

Let's listen to the end of episode 54.

How about a good thing?

How about a good thing?

How about it?

I did my apartment, my new apartment last time.

It's beautiful.

Thank you.

I really like it.

Why don't you do it?

Oh, no, no, no, I did the jacuzzi cat last time.

Jacuzzi Cat, and I saw your picture

on my Instagram.

Jacuzzi Cat is real.

Hardstark is my Instagram, and there's a fucking sweet picture of Jacuzzi Cat who I've seen since.

Gus, the jacuzzi cat, is legit, and he's so chill.

Legit and the real deal.

He is.

I guess I've already bragged now twice at you about my best thing, but my best thing is just it's so fun to work on a job right now.

It's just fun to perform again on TV.

It's really fun to have

fake eyelashes on all day long.

I love fake eyelashes.

Aren't they the best?

Oh my God, they make you feel like a queen.

Yeah, it's pretty fun.

And for me, like, it's just a period of, I just didn't think I was going to be performing anymore.

And like 10 years ago, if you would ask me if any of these things would be happening, I'd be like, you're insane.

i'm stuck in an office building in burbank and i will never leave here um so i'm very i feel grateful and like kind of just excited and

i don't know

no i'm happy i feel fingernails fingernails fingernails about it what's that mean oh just

like kind of fancy and like oh yeah maybe i should have a manicure like yeah maybe i should try you need to i've been in like a bit i've said this a million times but i've been in a I've been in a cave for almost a decade.

And look at you coming out of it.

Look at me out of the cave.

I love it.

And it's all because of nails, probably.

The thing I love is, and I cried about it, is I've been posting political stuff on Instagram and Twitter.

And you know how scary it is to do that because you're immediately like refreshing to see people saying mean stuff to you.

But so many people have been saying really nice things.

And the ACLU is a fucking entity that I'm so happy to donate to and to and that are fighting for us.

And so I started crying when I saw all the like positive comments from people on my political posts.

I just want to read one thing

because you wrote this tonight and I retweeted it.

Oh, I know.

Thank you.

Because it's beautifully written and it's exactly right.

With all this stuff that's happening in our country right now, which is incredibly scary.

And I have a lot of friends who like talk about it all the time.

We're like, I don't know what to do.

This is insane.

This is insanity.

This is so scary.

And you tweeted this tonight.

You said, we have an amazing opportunity to atone for the atrocities past generations inflicted on those deemed different and undesirable.

And then you did the hashtag love Trump's hate.

And it really feels like that's what's happening right now: those people that are fucking taken to the streets, who, when somebody puts down a Muslim ban in order to say that certain people can't come to this fucking country, people immediately show up in the streets going, No fucking way.

That's and to see it happening.

I mean, that I sat in the grocery store parking lot

staring at my phone for an hour and crying and going holy all these people at airport it's so empowering and like up until like a week ago I was not looking at articles I was feeling so beat down and maybe it's because my my uh

my uh lexapro got doubled i don't know but suddenly i'm feeling really like positive and empowered and not scared of reading these articles and like excited to be part of it and we've been told for a year that the majority wants this.

And basically people are showing up in the streets to say the majority does not want this.

I am here to say I don't want this.

It's an amazing, beautiful thing.

And you see it now.

The thing that people are tweeting tonight is showing all these people that are protesting at these airports and they're protesting at airports in the middle of the country.

People keep tweeting, oh, look at these,

look at these coastal elites in the middle of Kansas, in the middle of,

you know, wherever they were.

It was like the,

it was like a joke.

A couple different people made the coastal elites joke because it was an airport in Texas.

It was an airport in Wyoming.

Well, you know, it's so great too is that I feel like for years in every administration, there's been so many things that should, that people are up in arms about and that everyone's like, what do we do about this?

And nobody's protested because it's...

you don't have to do it.

It's not big enough.

There's not enough people.

There's not this army to protest with.

And suddenly it feels like we're not letting letting these things happen now.

And it's, there's definitely things that in the past should have been protested like this and haven't been.

100%.

And now everyone knows there is a way for every single person to get involved.

And it's kind of, it's empowering to when everyone's like, I don't know what to do.

And it's like, here are five things you can do.

Just go online and there's protests.

You can donate money.

You can donate time.

You can, you know, tweet something.

You can make phone calls.

It's just, there's a lot to do.

You can express yourself.

But it is very, I love the fact that it kind of kicked off with the women's march and all of the women's marches being five times bigger than they thought any of them were going to be.

But then this, these airport protests, watching, and it's people I know that are out there, watching people show up by the thousands to say, you cannot do this to people is beautiful.

And that's what we have to remember.

That's what you have to remember.

That's the majority.

That is truly the majority.

Yeah.

And then maybe, again, maybe it's a Lexophro, but I'm fucking over my fear and anxiety of protesting.

Like, I'll be, I'll be out there.

Oh, being in a crowd.

Yeah.

It's hard to be in a crowd.

I know, but it's necessary now.

Now I realize it's fucking necessary.

And I don't care if I get a little overwhelmed by it.

It's

well, it could be beautiful, too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's funny, our good things could be translated into today.

Yes.

With seamlessly, unfortunately.

It's just like such a strange loop that we are in.

And it is so weird.

Like the exact same topics, it's just like the proper nouns are being switched out for it's a different group of people being targeted.

It's a different group of people.

It's so shitty.

Look, we love progress, not perfection, but can we get a little bit of both?

Please.

Progress.

Great.

Some imperfect progress would be incredible.

All right.

Well.

It's time to rename this episode.

This one was originally entitled Valet Area.

But if we're naming it today, maybe we would call it Yip Yap.

It does not sound like anything you would ever say.

Yeah.

We're going to Yip Yap and Georgia jokes that people who aren't into it will join in 20 minutes.

Great.

Skippers.

Skippers.

We also do, of course, Corner, Corner, Corner.

That's the one that it feels thematically feels like it's really there.

Now we know it'd be a part of it.

Yeah.

So, and then also, Guy Brennan, please let me know.

And we're not going to say goodbye right now here in 2025 because in 2017, I think we did a pretty damn good job.

It's one of the best things we do on this episode.

So, thanks for listening to Rewind.

We appreciate you.

Yeah, come back next week.

Thanks for listening.

Go to myfavorite murder.com if you are so inclined.

I don't know.

We're on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook.

I don't know.

Thanks for listening.

I mean, you don't have to do any of those things.

We just appreciate you listening.

We really appreciate you listening and please stay sexy.

Don't get murdered.

Bye.

Bye.

Elvis, you want a cookie?

cookie?

Mary, you want a cookie?

Mimi, it's your big chance.

Do you want a cookie?

Mimi, you want a cookie?

That was Elvis.

All right.

And Stephen, thank you for being awesome.

You know, most of us don't treat our livers with any respect.

Amen.

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Goodbye.

Kevin and Rachel and King of M ⁇ Ms and an eight-hour road trip.

And Rachel's new favorite audiobook, The Cerulean Empress, Scoundrels Inferno.

And Florian, Florian, the reckless yet charming scoundrel from said audiobook.

And his pecs glistened in the moonlight.

And Kevin, feeling weird because of all the talk about PEX, and Rachel handing him peanut M ⁇ Ms to keep him quiet.

Uh, Kevin, I can't hear.

Yellow, we're keeping it PG-13.

M ⁇ Ms, it's more fun together.

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