Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 37: Liminal Space

Speaker 1 This is exactly right.

Speaker 1 This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. Okay, let's talk holiday shopping.
From now through December 8th, you can get 20% cash back when you pay in four with PayPal. No fees, no interest.

Speaker 1 This limited time offer is perfect for the Black Friday and Cyber Monday deals you've been eyeing. Save the offer in the app now.

Speaker 1 So, whether you're buying tickets to an improv show or a whodunit board game, PayPal helps you make the most of your money this holiday. Expires December 8th.

Speaker 1 See PayPal.com/slash promo terms subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com/slash payin4, PayPal Inc.
NMLS 910-457. Goodbye.
Goodbye. No one brings out your inner monster like a bad neighbor.

Speaker 1 Claire Danes and Matthew Reese find that out for themselves in The Beast in Me, a new eight-episode drama from the team that brought you homeland. Danes plays Aggie Wiggs, a grieving writer.

Speaker 1 Reese plays Niall Jarvis, her new neighbor and possible murderer. But who's the monster and who's the bad neighbor? That's another story.

Speaker 1 It's a game of cat and mouse that sets them on a collision course with fatal consequences. The Beast and Me, now playing only on Netflix.
You will not want to miss this. Goodbye.
Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Your pet is your best friend, your therapist, and your unpaid intern. So don't just feed them, fuel them with Hill's Pet Nutrition.

Speaker 1 Hills is backed by science to support whole body health in dogs and cats.

Speaker 1 As a leader in science-led nutrition, Hills supports lean muscles, which are essential for everything your pet does, whether that's the zoomies, squirrel patrol, or occasionally knocking something over.

Speaker 1 Hills science-led nutrition helps you give more love than humanly possible. Because you're only human, there's Hills.
Science does more. Find the right food at hillspet.com/slash iHeart.
Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Hello,

Speaker 1 and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. It is Wednesday, and that means that we're recapping one of our old shows with all new commentary and updates and insights.
Beautiful insights.

Speaker 1 And today we're recapping episode 37, which we named Liminal Space. Remember? I love that.
So join us now as we take you back to October 6, 2016.

Speaker 1 This was a wonderful year for podcasting, as well as, ironically, for Drake. He was dating Rihanna.

Speaker 1 He had no idea what the future held for him that he would be viciously, viciously roasted at a Super Bowl. Named and fucking roasted.
Named in shame. And I'm there for it.

Speaker 1 So let's listen to the intro of episode 37.

Speaker 1 Let's settle in. How do I look from this angle?

Speaker 2 It's very odd. It's weird, right? We switched seats tonight.
I think it's good for the liminal space creative upset. Whoa.
You know about that? No.

Speaker 2 There's this thing. I can't.
I talked about it. Oh, maybe it's on the other podcast.
But I have seven. I'm sorry.
You have another.

Speaker 2 Oh, I didn't tell you? We haven't discussed that. So let's cut.
Cut. Can we cut?

Speaker 2 There's a thing they call, it's the space that you get into when you're unsure

Speaker 2 or you're upset or like right after something shocking happens or whatever. It's, they call it liminal space.
And when you're in that place, your brain is working like at peak, at top performance.

Speaker 2 So that's why like when it they, it's good if you're a creative person, if you get too comfortable in anything or feel too secure, it's bad because then you can't, like the thoughts don't come the right way.

Speaker 2 But if you, you know, like get into a thing, like

Speaker 2 that's why like sometimes in stand-up when you're on stage, like you know, you're going to open with a couple jokes, but then you go into something new and weird because you can come up with something you didn't even know you were thinking of.

Speaker 2 That's cool. So, as you're saying, stop going to the same cafe for me every day and ordering two scrambled eggs and a side of fruit and an Americano every single fucking day of my life.

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, are you writing somewhere near there? Or, like, yes, yeah, I would. Or you could order something different or go to a different cafe.

Speaker 2 Just do something that will make you uncomfortable so that your brain works differently. I love it.
I'm doing it. Getting out of a pattern.
Okay. And that's what this is right now, Georgia.

Speaker 2 This of you and I looking at each other from a totally different perspective. Yeah.
Just different couches. Switch couches, everyone.
Yeah, it's not that big of a deal, actually. It is.

Speaker 2 Like from the very beginning, that's how we've done it. So this is neat.
I mean, episode 37, it's going to be all about like the brand new thing. Also, now we're talking about the Bible.
So open your

Speaker 2 murder in the Bible. There really is.

Speaker 2 We should do a biblical episode.

Speaker 2 That would be so boring.

Speaker 2 That would just put me back to like fucking grammar and high school. It's like, not these stories again.
I'm going to scream my story at you too.

Speaker 2 The whole story is going to be in caps at you. Like the angriest nun in all of St.
Francis Grammar School. Totally.
Okay.

Speaker 2 This is our first, so I was thinking that this is our first episode back from the last episode was a live episode. Yes.
Which is

Speaker 2 so awesome. It went really well, right? It was, it went well, which on to, I can now tell you that I'm surprised.

Speaker 2 are you serious yeah because i was like who the fuck knows what this is gonna be like you and i sitting here talking about stuff

Speaker 2 we know what that it what that amounts to but like having people react in real time

Speaker 2 and whether or not they were going to i mean obviously if they were there they were slightly on board yeah but those people i'm not worried about it's like does it translate To like, I'm not gonna be totally honest.

Speaker 2 I don't fucking listen to live episodes of podcasts. No, I don't either.
No way. I'm like, that doesn't, that doesn't translate.
I'm not gonna do that.

Speaker 2 I don't wanna hear you like pointing at things and talking about them. Right.
Or, yeah, or just having a whole experience without me.

Speaker 2 Because in these, it feels like when I listen to podcasts, I'm like, I'm there too. Yeah.
That's the whole fun of it, I think. Yeah.
So, yes, I, but I also, I was just nervous and I kind of was like,

Speaker 2 I don't know. Are you nervous about me? Because you've never seen me on stage before.

Speaker 2 No, I'm too much of a narcissist to be nervous about you. I mean, let's.

Speaker 2 I was like, you're on your own. Okay.

Speaker 2 Sink or swim. I got to get mine.
You know what I think?

Speaker 2 What if we added Dave Anthony permanently to the podcast? Well,

Speaker 2 we probably shouldn't talk about this right now, but Dave, I did a show with Dave Anthony the other night, and he was like, I think we should start doing like every three months. Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 We all do all our podcasts together. That was like a, that was great.
And also, that was my sister's suggestion.

Speaker 2 I swear to God, she's batting a thousand. She was like, they were so funny on your show.
I don't think I add a lot to the dollop. I just like laughing at whatever the fuck Garrett says.

Speaker 2 You do, though. You do, but here's the thing.
Yeah. It's learning to elbow your way

Speaker 2 into comedy conversations. No way.
Takes a, takes a while. That's scary.
It's scary. And also it's that thing of like, well, am I going to stop this?

Speaker 2 Is the thing I'm going to say going to be worth it to stop what's going on? Totally. It's a really hard thing to do.

Speaker 2 Interrupting people, especially people who are like fucking legit comedians that have been doing this for years and years is not my thing.

Speaker 2 It's well, and also if you do it and it's like a half-tepid response, it makes you never want to say anything again. You're like a stupid idiot.

Speaker 2 Yeah, when people would laugh when I said something, I wanted to go hug and each and every one of them.

Speaker 2 So much, you guys wouldn't understand how hard this is for me.

Speaker 2 But you did great. It didn't seem like you were having a hard time at all.
No, I had a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 You just gotta say, fuck it, once you're in the moment. Exactly.
Well, and it's for fun. Those guys love you.

Speaker 2 Dave thinks you're fucking hilarious. That's so nice.
Yeah. I'll never say that to my face, but I appreciate it.
No, no, he can't. Okay.
He's got emotional problems.

Speaker 2 Everyone go, the doll-up live, their last one. We're guests on it.
So if you really fucking love the live episode,

Speaker 2 that's nice.

Speaker 2 That's how we warmed it up. That's how we heated it up.
That was nice. Yeah, so the live episode, and that was awesome.
It was super fun.

Speaker 2 And also, we get to meet a bunch of people, which was very cool afterwards. Which I have to say, I went backstage because I was like, I don't want to meet people.

Speaker 2 Like, I don't, I don't think I'll be good at it. I don't like the idea of it.
And then I was standing back there and said, You were already talking to somebody. And then I'm like, What am I doing?

Speaker 2 Like, that's not allowed. And then the second I walked out, whoever the first person I was that talked to, I was just like, Hey, what's going on? And they were so regular and normal.

Speaker 2 It wasn't like I had to do anything. It was just like having a nice conversation with a person that was happy.

Speaker 2 I've had years and years of experience of like talking to strangers because Allie and I do the like cocktail like food thing and you go to these like cocktail parties and food parties and you have to fucking just talk to people and it's scary and hard, but the more you do it, the more you're just used to it and it's not a big deal.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Especially strangers.
But what was I going to say?

Speaker 2 I don't know. I guess this would be a good, oh, and the episode before that was the Jean Bonnet episode, so it wasn't like a regular format.
That's right.

Speaker 2 So this is like the first time we've done a regular format. Like we're back from from

Speaker 2 camp. It's been, that's right.
It's been, my legs are really tan.

Speaker 2 My legs don't tan, only my arms. And I'm burnt on the back of my neck.
It's weird. And I'm starting to wear this necklace all the time that I never wore before.
Even a friendship bracelet?

Speaker 2 It's camp stuff. It's camp stuff.
It's good luck when it falls off on its own. You know, those fucking bracelets that people go, oh, fuck that.
That's Kabbalah. Oh,

Speaker 2 fuck you, Madonna. No, I just mean like when you go to some party and it's like sponsored by a company and they're like, put this bracelet on and when it falls off your wish will come true.

Speaker 2 And I just like it's falling off when I rip it off of my fucking arm. It always that stuff that stuff always makes me want to go, yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, since no wishes that I can think of like stuff like this has ever come true, I don't need your bracelet. I'm sorry.
Wishes aren't a thing. I'm sorry to tell you.
I'm sorry to tell everyone.

Speaker 2 Karma? Karma and wishes are not true. Oh God, everyone just hung up on the podcast.

Speaker 2 Like half the women just hung up on this podcast. I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. Mercury's in retrograde.
What can I say? Wishes aren't true. It's not actually.
Oh,

Speaker 2 there's a, at work, there's a website called Is Mercury in Retrograde? And it either says yes or no. And we look it up all the time because people are constantly making that joke.

Speaker 2 And then we're like, wait, let's just check and see if it really is.

Speaker 2 Actually, no. Yes.
I just almost spit this drink out of my nostrils when you said that. Because it really is no.
Because someone made that, and I just loved that. That's such a great.
It's the best.

Speaker 2 I love when people make simple, hilarious, stupid things.

Speaker 2 Kat Solon, our friend, who's a director, is is a true crime enthusiast, fucking talented as shit person.

Speaker 2 I begged her to make us a new design for our shirts, and she did it, and they look freaking incredible. They look like an old like 1960s pulp fiction book cover, and I'm so happy with them.
And

Speaker 2 we're going to keep posting new sayings, and people can vote for what the sayings they want it to be. Oh, did you know, did you see what they voted for?

Speaker 2 They voted for fuck politeness to be the next one. Nice.
Yeah. Cool.
Cool.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Anyways.
Yeah, I didn't know there was voting going on. I just fucking decided one.
sweet. You went totally rogue.
Sorry. I was going to pass it by you, of course.
I don't, please. Okay.

Speaker 2 I mean, of all the things I try to care about,

Speaker 2 vote away. I feel like we talked about that a while ago.
Yeah. But I just didn't.
I feel like I'm missing out on life. If there was any tone in that, it was not toward you.
It was.

Speaker 2 I'm spending a lot of time, and this is not a complaint because I love my job, but it's the kind of thing where every once in a while, like I'll pick up my phone and look at email and I'll watch you talking to all these people where i'm just like thank fucking god because i'm a controller freak and just deal with like i mean just i'm very grateful for you you have thank you you have a hard job i can't wait to have you for myself again and we can go get tuna fucking melts at cafe 101 for real it's been so long i can pick your fries out and eat all your fries you can have all the fries i can't eat fries anymore oh yay good i can't wait until you're free again i'm happy and i love your job and i'm so happy for for you and it's great.

Speaker 2 Fuck, I'm lying. I fucking want you for myself and I want my favorite murder to be the only thing that matters in your life.
I mean, that would be nice.

Speaker 2 It will be.

Speaker 2 But it's also cool because it's whatever. It's nice to have a job that actually takes up all my time and brain.

Speaker 2 But then it's, then there's things like that where just like, oh, is that what's happening? Good. I love that daddy has a job, but we miss daddy at home.

Speaker 2 Daddy wants to come home. That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 Hey, let's take a quick pee break and then get started. Great.

Speaker 1 The idea that I stated the words, fuck you, Madonna, is a shame to me. It brings shame to my family.
That is not the person I thought I was. That's not how I feel about Madonna.
No, but people change.

Speaker 1 You change, you grow, you stop hating Madonna for whatever reason. That's true.

Speaker 1 I think I was going through a really dark time in my life, and I wanted to kind of, you know, forget about who I was and who I grew up as, which was was a Madonna wannabe from day one. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 Just really changed my life in every way. Don't go for second best.
At least we didn't make fucking Madonna merch is all I'll say. I was smart enough to know.

Speaker 1 Can you imagine one time I made a boniva joke about Madonna on the Grammys? This was like 2018 or even earlier than that, because it was kind of like the glory days of Twitter.

Speaker 1 Man, those Madonna fans, and I guess I'll just say it, gay men, came after me.

Speaker 1 Fuck you, bitch, where I I was like, and then I kind of looked at it. I was like, yeah, you know what? You're right.
That's fine.

Speaker 1 I take it. I delete it.
You're right. That's peak.
That's peak fame or peak

Speaker 1 influence that people will come after you for talking shit about someone they don't even know. Yeah.
Which I feel like Murderinos kind of do that. And I'm so grateful for that.

Speaker 1 I think they are Madonna level supporters. I think so too.
And we're very lucky.

Speaker 1 We are so appreciative of everything you guys do for all that shit talking that goes goes on on the Super Bowl, on Twitter, on Instagram.

Speaker 1 To defend the indefensible, you go out there for your girls knowing, knowing. You're wrong.
Of course I didn't mean fuck you, Madonna. She's my hero.

Speaker 1 Well, let's blame Mercury on retrograde, which, by the way, it is not right now, but it will be once this comes out. Let's blame Mercury on retrograde.

Speaker 1 Is that what it is? Is that what we're supposed to do? It'd be really spiritual if you didn't know that about me.

Speaker 1 Actually, Alice Nagosti, who writes these shows up for us, put it in the notes. Yeah.
Mercury is not in retrograde right now. But she said that when this comes out, it will be.
It's currently not.

Speaker 1 While we're speaking. Exactly.
But when you're right. But in next Wednesday or maybe in three Wednesdays.
Whatever it is. Whenever this is happening to your ears, it's in retrograde.
So be careful.

Speaker 1 It's on retrograde, in retrograde, around retrograde. Don't slip in the shower is all I'm saying.
And if this is 2035, that none of this applies to you. And obviously, and how is your fucking

Speaker 1 battery pack? How's your Judy Jetson skirt? How are you even listening to this?

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 Battery pack. I don't know.
They definitely are wearing big batteries. Everyone is being charged by a battery pack.

Speaker 1 Okay, so now it's time to get into the first story on this episode, Liminal Space. It's Georgia going first this week and covering the Ruth Talia Sias murder.

Speaker 1 Every holiday season, it's the same. You've got one person who's impossible to shop for, and another who, quote, doesn't need anything.
Great, then they're gonna get my macaroni art. Or go to Quince.

Speaker 1 They have timeless pieces that make perfect gifts, soft sweaters, silk tops, and outerwear that's built to last. Quince has all the elevated essentials you need.

Speaker 1 Think Mongolian cashmere from $50, premium denim that fits like a dream, and silk tops and skirts that add polish. I just got my key piece for the season, which is a plain black Mongolian sweater.

Speaker 1 You love those Quince sweaters. Right? It just came out of the bag.
I think I put it on and walked directly to a record with you.

Speaker 1 There's just nothing like a beautiful cashmere sweater when the weather turns cold and it's $50.

Speaker 1 Well, I got some underwear from them, but I also got a second pair, my second pair of their Italian leather bow ballet flats. I have one in black now and one in almond because I'm obsessed with them.

Speaker 1 Step into the holiday season with layers made to feel good, look polished, and last last from Quince. Perfect for gifting or keeping for yourself.

Speaker 1 Go to quince.com slash MFM to get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too.
That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash MFM to get free shipping and 365-day returns.

Speaker 1 Quince.com slash MFM. Goodbye.
Bye.

Speaker 1 This is the time of year when you want to feel warm and cozy in your home. And with Simply Safe, you can feel protected too.

Speaker 1 Unlike other systems that make you do the monitoring, Simply Safe's team handles it for you, even if you miss the alert.

Speaker 1 Simply Safe's monitoring agents can step in right away to stop a break-in before it even starts.

Speaker 1 There are no long-term contracts or hidden fees, and SimplySafe was named best home security system by U.S. News and World Report for five years running.

Speaker 1 There's a 60-day money-back guarantee, so you can try it and see the difference for yourself.

Speaker 1 I cannot tell you how much the cameras around my house have meant to me on our tour because we've been away so much. And just to be able to like look in real quick, make sure everything's okay.

Speaker 1 You know, when the gardener comes, make sure they shut the door, make sure everything just looks right in our neighborhood. It's just kind of this peace of mind when you're far from home.

Speaker 1 What I like is that there's also a team standing by. So, if you see anything when you're checking that video, there are people there to take care of it.
Exactly.

Speaker 1 Don't miss out on Simply Safe's biggest sale of the year, 60% off. Right now, our listeners can save 60% off on a Simply Safe home security system at simplysafe.com slash fave.

Speaker 1 That's simply safe.com/slash F-A-V. There's no safe like SimplySafe.
Goodbye. This show is sponsored by MIDI MIDI Health.

Speaker 1 If you've ever left a doctor's office feeling unheard, unseen, or somehow at fault, you're not alone. And you deserve better.
That's where MIDI Health comes in.

Speaker 1 MIDI is a women's telehealth clinic built specifically for midlife care. For too long, women's serious midlife health issues have been trivialized, ignored, and met with a just deal with it attitude.

Speaker 1 Many of us have been made to feel ashamed or forgotten. In fact, even today, 75% of women seeking care for menopause and perimenopause issues are left entirely untreated.
It's time for a change.

Speaker 1 It's time for MIDI. MIDI is not just a healthcare provider, it's a women's telehealth clinic founded and supported by world-class leaders in women's health.

Speaker 1 At MIDI, real clinicians listen to your symptoms and offer personalized, data-driven care, not one-size-fits-all advice.

Speaker 1 MIDI is backed by world-class experts in women's health and focuses on everything from hormone therapy to weight management and lifestyle coaching.

Speaker 1 Ready to feel your best and write your second act script? Visit joinmidi.com today to book your personalized insurance-covered virtual visit. That's joinmidi.com.
MIDI, the care women deserve.

Speaker 1 Goodbye.

Speaker 2 So let's see. Who went first four episodes ago? Oh, my God.
I want to say,

Speaker 2 I don't care. You want to go first? You want me to go first?

Speaker 2 Whatever you want.

Speaker 2 It's your choice. Okay, I'm going to go.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Is that rude? No.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 2 So this one actually, speaking of Cat Solan, who made our shirts sign, she sent this to me and I had never heard it. And it's

Speaker 2 pretty bananas. Okay.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 2 So we start with 19-year-old Ruth Talia Sayas. Sayas.
Let me start the room. We start with 19-year-old Ruth Talia Sayas.
She was raised on the outskirts of the capital in a working-class area of Peru.

Speaker 2 So outside of the working-class area of Peru. And she was studying at a local university and she lived with her family, like normal girl, cute girl,

Speaker 2 regular 19-year-old.

Speaker 2 on saturday july 12th 2012

Speaker 2 she was the very first contestant on the new reality show that was like a quiz show called el valor

Speaker 2 uh de la

Speaker 2 verdad which is translated to the value of the truth mm-hmm you knew that i just wanted to guess because i i've never taken spanish

Speaker 2 and i know what verdad means

Speaker 2 so it's a new quiz reality quiz show that's just come to peru um the show's premise is that a contestant is asked a series of personal questions, like during an interview, a private interview with a production company or the producers.

Speaker 2 Varying seriousness, the questions, and they're hooked up to a fucking polygraph. Okay.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 the contestant is later asked the same questions, but in front of a crazy studio audience. And it's like,

Speaker 2 what's that?

Speaker 2 The money show? Do you want to be a millionaire? Who wants to be a millionaire? Yeah, it's like that kind of seriousness level with like lights and shit.

Speaker 2 So they're given their questions again

Speaker 2 and their answers are

Speaker 2 voted by the polygraph whether they're true or not. Okay.

Speaker 2 So for each truthful response that they give, they win money.

Speaker 2 If they lie

Speaker 2 according to the polygraph test, they lose all the money they made. So they can keep going with questions.
And if they're correct and they are not lying about them, they win money.

Speaker 2 and the questions get more and more personal as the show goes on and the contestant has the option of calling it off after each answer so if they've only won a certain amount they can be like and they've answered like some really personal question they'd be like i'm done um so she's the very first contestant on this show this little 19 year old university student

Speaker 2 And she went on because she wanted to open a salon and she had already saved a ton of money, but she needed the money from the show to bring her closer to buying buying that salon

Speaker 2 and she was like okay making a spectacle of herself to get the money so every contestant gets to bring on or has to bring on three guests to the show who are like sitting there being interviewed and filmed the whole time she's answering these personal questions so she brings her parents uh it's liencio and vilma and they're like sweet baby angels i watched i watched it um

Speaker 2 and the dad said that he was afraid of what I might learn about my daughter

Speaker 2 when he was introduced. But they were all jovial.
They were all like, you know, this is going to be fun. We're going to win some money.

Speaker 2 No one thought it'd be that insane because they thought their daughter was like a normal human being.

Speaker 2 I mean, you know. So the third guest was her boyfriend,

Speaker 2 Brian Leva. He was a 20-year-old cab driver.
He was raised down the road from Rutalia.

Speaker 2 And he'd stuttered since an old boyfriend of his mother had pushed him down the stairs when he was only eight. Oh, so he's just like this normal dude.
But he had a stutter.

Speaker 2 The host says, you seem nervous. What are you so nervous about? And he said that she may have cheated on me.
And he was like a very stone-faced and like clearly nervous through the whole show.

Speaker 2 So here are the questions, some of the questions she was asked. Have you ever skipped school without your mother's knowledge? If you found 1,000 souls, would you return them? Souls?

Speaker 2 It's like, this is my money. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So she revealed that she had. 1,000 wandering souls.
Yeah. When she returned into their homes.

Speaker 2 She revealed she had a nose job and that she didn't like her body and that she wished she was white and that she was only with her boyfriend, Brian, until someone better came along.

Speaker 2 The one that was there, the cab driver? Yeah. With the stutter.
Yeah. And that she was ashamed of her parents' manners and that she didn't actually work at a call center like they thought.

Speaker 2 She danced at a nightclub. Oh, shit.
Here we go. Here we go.
So the mom is begging her to stop

Speaker 2 and at one point Brian says I don't want to hear anymore the boyfriend.

Speaker 2 So okay we're at question number 18 and she had won at this point with this question she would have won the equivalent of 15,000

Speaker 2 US dollars which is

Speaker 2 almost 10 months wages

Speaker 2 wait No, no, no, I'm sorry. She could have won up to 15,000 US dollars.
At that point, she had won $5,300, which was almost 10 months' wages in Lima with this question. She'll win this.

Speaker 2 The question number 18 was: Have you ever accepted money for sex?

Speaker 2 And she answers yes.

Speaker 2 And the polygraph confirmed that it was true. And she says, Just twice, we needed money.
We were in a bad situation. It hasn't happened since, and it won't happen again.

Speaker 2 And her parents are like crying and like

Speaker 2 clearly shaken badly. It's fucked up, man.

Speaker 2 She said, so at that point, she's like, I'm done. I'm not going to win up to $15,000 US dollars.
I can't do this anymore. I mean, I wonder what the other questions were.

Speaker 2 If I was like, that was the one that was only $15,000 or $5,000. Yeah.
What were the other questions? Who knows?

Speaker 2 She says at the end, my mother, my father, my brother, and sister are the most beautiful things in the world to me. I love them all with all my heart.
Brian, forgive me for making you go through this.

Speaker 2 And as the credits roll, she goes down on her knees before them and begs them for forgiveness her parents what the fuck yeah kind of game show is this yeah

Speaker 2 so the show finally aired on saturday july 12th huge fucking hit like becomes number one and she becomes like kind of a celebrity in that world but not like in a good way she's just like

Speaker 2 talked about all the time and Brian her boyfriend becomes a public fool and the Peru in Peru like machoism is such a big thing and he was humiliated in front of all these people, and people,

Speaker 2 people in the small town recognize him and kind of humiliate him, and he's like fucking broken.

Speaker 2 Sorry, but did she get any of that money? Yeah. Okay.
She got all of that. She won what she, like, she at least got paid for her.
She stopped. So she stopped after that true question.
Okay.

Speaker 2 So she was, she wasn't lying about having had money, had sex for money. So she stopped at basically our equivalent of $5,300.
Okay.

Speaker 2 So he's being followed around by like by the media and being asked all these questions. Someone asked him how he felt about being made a fool.
And he said, I'm ashamed.

Speaker 2 All the things I learned on that show, how would you feel? And the news person said, but they say that if you love someone, you can forgive them. And he says, depends on what they did.

Speaker 2 The things she said that day, I can't forgive.

Speaker 2 But then in other interviews, he says that it had all been a setup, that he and Ruth Talia had broken up months before the taping, and she had asked him to pretend to be her boyfriend on TV and that she'd share the money with him.

Speaker 2 And he hadn't given her any of the money. So it sounds like he's making this shit up to make himself sound a little bit better, right? Because he's so fucking humiliated.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Eight weeks after the premiere of the show, on September 11th, 2012, Ruth Talia disappears.

Speaker 2 So crazy media circus. All the news programs covered it in Lima.

Speaker 2 But one of the hosts called her the prostitute of El Valor

Speaker 2 de la Verdad. Like she was known as a whore, and nobody cared about it because of that.
And her parents had to like beg to get media attention and get this covered and to try to find their daughter.

Speaker 2 11 days after the disappearance, police find a body of a young woman buried in a well and covered by rocks and concrete on a piece of land on the outskirts of Lima.

Speaker 2 And that land belongs to Brian's uncle.

Speaker 2 So later that day, oh my god, this is so fucked up and there's video of this. So

Speaker 2 the media and the fan, the mother, I'm sorry, the father and the sister are at the site where they're excavating trying to figure out if it's their sister and daughter.

Speaker 2 And the dad is on the phone, on the cell phone, like crying and it's awful. And it turns out that it is her.
And he's just like losing it.

Speaker 2 And if you're sensitive, you shouldn't watch him break break the fuck down.

Speaker 2 Then a reporter and her cameraman go to the home where Vilma, the mother, is sitting vigil with some of her friends and doesn't yet know that it was her daughter that was found.

Speaker 2 And the reporter says she gave her condolences and realized she didn't know about it. And then the reporter said, ma'am, they found your girl.
So this fucking reporter told her, which is so ugly.

Speaker 2 So Brian's brought in for questioning and he confesses. He says that he called Ruth Talia as she was leaving school and they made plans to meet up.
He says, I waited for her by the bridge.

Speaker 2 She got into my motor taxi and I said, let's go have some wine. She says, okay.

Speaker 2 And they went to his house, his apartment that he rented. And they had sex and afterwards they started to fight.
And she says,

Speaker 2 She tells me, I don't know what I'm going, what I'm doing with a poor motor taxi driver.

Speaker 2 And he says, that's when I grabbed her by the throat and that he admitted that he choked her for 30 seconds or more and he says I thought she had passed out I listened to her heart I didn't hear anything I grabbed her and shook her but nothing I got scared and during the trial Brian's lawyer tried to pin the blame on the TV show saying

Speaker 2 that they had humiliated him. And so Beto Ortiz, who's one of the most famous television journalists there, they called him to testify.

Speaker 2 So it was later found that the majority of his confession was false.

Speaker 2 And there was a witness who was a young boy from the neighborhood, and he said that the night she disappeared, Brian had paid him 50 souls to let him know when Ruth Talia got off the bus.

Speaker 2 And he said he had seen Brian and another man force her into his motor taxi.

Speaker 2 And the court determined that Brian's accomplice was his uncle, who owned the property where her body was found. And the motive was robbery.

Speaker 2 And they had tried to get Ruth Talia's bank security code so that they can get the winnings from the show

Speaker 2 for themselves. And they were both sentenced to life in prison.
So then the second season of El Valora de la Verdade was,

Speaker 2 they only had celebrity contestants because they said they can deal with the media. Which is like, how could you even have a fucking second season? But at least that's that.

Speaker 2 And, oh, I wanted to say that a lot of this information, and it's really hard to find information.

Speaker 2 I mean, there's no, this isn't like a story I've ever heard about before. So the California Sunday magazine by Daniel

Speaker 2 Eller Khan, he wrote this really great story about it. And that's where I got a lot of this information and then all over the internet as well.
That is fucking crazy. Dude.

Speaker 2 The idea.

Speaker 2 The idea that that show continued on after the first

Speaker 2 contestant was murdered. I mean, that's intense.

Speaker 2 Remember when Jenny Jones, the Jenny Jones show that a lot of young people won't remember was like one of those like 90s talk shows like Jerry Springer had on like a, it was like a confession episode of I'm in Love With You.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 a guy brought on his friend and told this guy that he was gay and he was in love with him.

Speaker 2 And the guy he told shot and killed him. Yes, I do know that story because my old boss was one of the EPs on that show and had to go to court.

Speaker 2 That was like a huge scandal at telepictures.

Speaker 2 Heartbreaking the company for that. No, it was horrible.
And it's that kind of thing of like, what's the line? When you're producing TV, everything is two numbers. Butts and seats, eyes on screens.

Speaker 2 How do you do a show that's going to make people watch it? And especially in those days of like the early days of Springer and Jenny Jones and all that shit. Let's just keep going with that.

Speaker 2 But also, why did they have a hit? Oh, they had a hit because it's a girl who is exposed that it wasn't that's not the baby daddy and blah, blah, blah. Now they're in a fist fight and all that shit.

Speaker 2 And like, that was the norm. So like you had to, you had, they were trying to think of shows and produce shows that were

Speaker 2 the most exploited. Well, the article.

Speaker 2 The article I got a lot of this like basic information from

Speaker 2 was really interesting. So the show that this, the article that this is from, where they talk a lot about the actual show and how much it had to do with it and what, like, about

Speaker 2 reality shows in Peru, was called The Contestant from California Sunday magazine. And so, they talk a lot about that.
And it's just like, I mean, who

Speaker 2 would agree to say those things? But if you're in a poor fucking city and you need money, I mean, you'll do anything. Exactly.
It's total exploitation of people.

Speaker 2 And also, that is such an ugly version.

Speaker 2 I think there was an American version of that show and it wasn't on for very long oh I didn't know that because you can't the the nature of a show like that is is scandal so like if people are admitting things that no one gives a shit about and no one wants to talk about and that aren't that isn't like borderline then you don't have a good show and they're not gonna find someone who's like nope never had never got paid for sex nope i work in this place you know they find the most yes they are only going to have people on there that are going to tell them what they want to hear and more so.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the one of the weirdest things that I ever experienced in working in television is there is this very strange subset of people.

Speaker 2 And if you work in casting in like any kind of reality version of television, you know, there are people who try to get on every single show. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And they're not, it's like, if it's a show about couples, they'll submit for that. If it's a show about,

Speaker 2 you know, whatever the fuck it is, they want to, they want to be on TV. Matchmaking or whatever the fuck they'll do.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And they'll try to, like, they know TV well enough to know that they have to be interesting in certain personality types.

Speaker 2 And, and, because it is a good way to make money if you, you know, if you're the right person. But then don't you just get one chance? Yeah, you would think.

Speaker 2 But I mean, these are people that are just like, well, we'll go over here. Well, we'll try to be on the amazing race.
Well, we'll try to be on the marriage ref. We'll try to be on this.

Speaker 2 And that's what happened.

Speaker 2 When I worked on the second season of the marriage ref, there was this one tape where they were like, brought us down to casting because they're like, you're never going to believe what you're about to see.

Speaker 2 And it's like this weird couple that, like, it's there's sexual overtones where you're like, this is, they don't know that this is inappropriate. That, like, this isn't going to get them.

Speaker 2 It's just this weird shit. And one of the people in that casting department was like, oh, yeah, we, that, we had them, they tried to be on whatever show she had worked on before.

Speaker 2 And it's just like these people that are kind of like, we know we're kind of interesting and kind of weirdos and that that works.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we're very different and we're wild and let's get on fucking television. People just want to get on television.
Do you see that the real world this season is like

Speaker 2 everyone thinks they're just going on the real world, but for each person on the real world, they find their like enemy and they have to live in the house too.

Speaker 2 And it's like this show is interesting enough if you cast it well. These people are just going to make their own fucking

Speaker 2 editing. And they're going to go back and say, because no one's watching TV anymore, so they don't have good ratings, so it's not interesting enough to make a ratings hit.

Speaker 2 And that's all anybody cares about. And because all of television is owned by like four companies,

Speaker 2 they have this insane grasp on the money, who gets the money. The story is like nobody has any money, but that's actually not true.

Speaker 2 They're making billions of dollars because even in like a depression, people still watch TV. People still, you know, advertising still works.

Speaker 2 But it's like, it's this, it's really sick and crazy that kind of shit where you like that thing where you're watching TV and you're just like, well, this doesn't, I don't feel like who I'm seeing is what I'm really seeing.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So the idea that your story is about a person who actually did the thing

Speaker 2 and suffered by it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But she,

Speaker 2 I don't know if she felt, it didn't seem like she was,

Speaker 2 I mean, I guess she, she was kind of embarrassed and stayed at home a lot, but it's like, she didn't seem like she was, she seemed like confident about having done it for the right reason, or for the reason, which was to make her life better, even though she like, you know, tore her family apart.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, you'd think that that, that makes your life way worse.
Also being murdered. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, because that shame, shame is the thing people can't deal with. Oh, Jesus, no.

Speaker 2 Shaming people, especially like you were saying, like, like that culture where men have to be men, you can't come out and be like,

Speaker 2 yeah. Yeah, sometimes I do this which is like you know yeah

Speaker 2 not in a judgmental way of that person's lifestyle but this is like a cultural thing of where women are supposed to be like wives and mothers and especially

Speaker 2 in Peru I feel like it's you're not supposed to

Speaker 2 that's not it's like so much less accepted and understood than it is here as it is here

Speaker 2 well crazy

Speaker 2 crazy right

Speaker 2 I mean

Speaker 2 that's the thing too when you were saying like you should you should watch it because he's all upset or whatever I would never watch no it bothered me a lot I never watched that it's the fact that the cops didn't keep him away from the meet from the cameras is upsetting like his daughter his other daughter tries to shield his face a couple times but there's nowhere to turn like there's cameras on every on every single angle of this man telling someone on the other line that they found his daughter like

Speaker 2 there's nowhere for him to go to get out of the fucking

Speaker 2 out of the camera. That's disgusting.
It's just really sick and sad. And then the woman who

Speaker 2 told the mother inadvertently the reporter. Yeah, the reporter, she quit

Speaker 2 doing news after that. Wow.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 There's a thing in this article. It's going to take up someone's life.
Yeah. Like, to get that story.
We're like, go talk to her now.

Speaker 2 Go up to the room after she started crying and try to get a conversation with her.

Speaker 2 And there's some quotes in this article. It's like how awful she felt and that she quit.
Yeah. Oh, that's

Speaker 2 yeah. You don't want to sell your soul for one paycheck.
Uh-uh.

Speaker 2 One byline. Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay, and we are back, Georgia. Any updates, anything about this case you can talk about? No updates on this case.

Speaker 1 It is just so sad because like, I feel like as I was telling it, you just knew what was going to happen and what a mess was going to be. And it's just so heartbreaking.

Speaker 1 I will say, though, that we mentioned the the Jenny Jones show where a romantic confession leads to murder. And I actually go on to cover that case in episode 40, which is called Squad Gourds.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Which we're coming close to. Also, Daniel Ahler Khan, who wrote about this case in the California Sunday magazine, now teaches at Columbia Journalism School.

Speaker 1 And in 2021, he was awarded the MacArthur Genius Grant. Wow.
Do you know how hard that is to get? No,

Speaker 1 but it's very hard. You get to be a genius.
So I feel like I can be like, well, I knew him first. And that kind of, you're a genius.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that kind of like I'm the genius who like knew that he was a genius. You're a genius spotter.
And I think that's that.

Speaker 1 You're like a really good casting person where like they do not get the credit for literally making the movie come together the way it's supposed to come together.

Speaker 1 Do you know what I love doing though when I watch a movie is talking over the movie? One of the things I like to do is say, I wonder who auditioned for this part. Yes.

Speaker 1 I'll like be like, can you imagine so-and-so in this part? It would have been totally different. Yes.
You know? Which also is kind of a point.

Speaker 1 We shouldn't shouldn't be talking about this, but here, this is my sidebar acting class tip. Okay.

Speaker 1 That's what people should be thinking about as a person who was very bad at acting and auditioning.

Speaker 1 It was because I could not keep my eyes on the prize, which is you are supposed to be bringing something to the role that makes the role come alive.

Speaker 1 You're not supposed to be reciting the words so perfectly, whatever. Yeah.
Like I was always like, I'm sweating. My upper lip.
Is my upper lip sweating or whatever?

Speaker 1 Where they're like, no, you're supposed to. I saw.
Who is she? Who is Pam from the office?

Speaker 1 Why Why is she so?

Speaker 1 Yeah, but like when you see people like Johnny, I saw an audition tape for Johnny Pemberton one time. Oh, he's so funny.

Speaker 1 And it was like that guy that was the character walked in and sat down and was doing stuff. He's like, this is mine.
This is me. It's just brilliant.
Yeah, I can't act for shit.

Speaker 1 So that's really impressive for me. Yeah.
Anyway.

Speaker 1 Let's get into some dark deep shit because this is a famous one. And I feel like I've heard about this story.
Like I never heard about it when you told it.

Speaker 1 And since you told it, I hear about it all the time. Right.
Because it's just brought up a lot because it's so mind-boggling. This is Karen telling the story, the famous story of Dorothea Puente.

Speaker 1 You love your cat, but nobody loves the litter box. It'd be weird if you did.
With Pretty Litter, the litter box stays fresher, cleaner, and way easier to manage.

Speaker 1 Pretty litter is formulated with silica gel crystals that are safe for cats and people alike. Advanced odor control means your home smells like home, not a litter box.

Speaker 1 They change color to detect early signs of potential illness.

Speaker 1 It also helps monitor your cat's health, detecting abnormalities in your cat's urine by testing acidity and alkalinity levels and the visible presence of blood.

Speaker 1 The ultra-absorbent formula uses less material than clay litter, reducing waste and saving money. We are a Multi-Cat household, thank God.
I love it. It's my favorite, except for the litter box.

Speaker 1 And since we've been going out of town so much for touring, our house sitter has been cleaning the box and she does not do as good a job as we do. So because of that, we have this great litter.

Speaker 1 It kind of makes up for that, you know, and it's just like it's great for everyone. And right now, you can try your first bag for just $14.99 and get a free cat toy at prettylitter.com/slash MFM.

Speaker 1 That's pretty litter.com/slash MFM to get your first bag for just $14.99. Pretty litter.com/slash MFM.
Pretty litter cannot detect every feline health issue or prevent or diagnose diseases.

Speaker 1 A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian. Terms and conditions apply.
See site for details. Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Every car has that one cup holder full of coins and then maybe some slightly melted hard candy. With Acorns, you can take that spare change and put it to use by investing in your future.

Speaker 1 Acorns is the financial wellness app that cares about where your money is going. And with the Acorns Potential screen, you can see what your money is capable of.

Speaker 1 The Acorns Potential screen shows you the power of compounding and how your money could grow over time. Plus, you can adjust how much you're investing to make sure you're building towards your goals.

Speaker 1 Sign up now, and Acorns will boost your new account with a $5 bonus investment. Join the over 14 million all-time customers who have already saved and invested over $27 billion with Acorns.

Speaker 1 Head to acorns.com slash MFM or download the Acorns app to get started. Paid non-client endorsement.
Compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns. Tier 2 compensation provided.

Speaker 1 Potential subject to various factors such as customers' accounts, age, and investment settings. Does not include Acorns fees.

Speaker 1 Results do not predict or represent the performance of any Acorns portfolio. Investment results will vary.
Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC, an SEC registered investment advisor.

Speaker 1 View important disclosures at acorns.com/slash MFM. Goodbye.
Your pet is your best friend, your therapist, and your unpaid intern. So don't just feed them, fuel them with Hills Pet Nutrition.

Speaker 1 Hills is backed by science to support whole body health in dogs and cats.

Speaker 1 As a leader in science-led nutrition, Hills supports lean muscles, which are essential for everything your pet does, whether that's the zoomies, squirrel patrol, or occasionally knocking something over.

Speaker 1 Hills science-led nutrition helps you give more love than humanly possible. Because you're only human, there's hills.
Science does more. Find the right food at hillspet.com/slash iHeart.
Goodbye.

Speaker 2 You ready for your murder?

Speaker 2 The same one?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Turns out.

Speaker 2 Mine is the,

Speaker 2 shit, I can't think of the, what's the Howie Mandel show with all the suitcases? What?

Speaker 2 Suitcase number seven. Was that still fun?

Speaker 2 I don't think so. I don't think so either.
I was going to try to make a joke about that, but I can't remember what it's called. I can't remember what it's called, and I don't care.

Speaker 2 What's in the suitcase? You know that show, What's in the Suitcase? All right. So I picked

Speaker 2 my story this week. Actually, my sister suggested this, our number one fan, our newest and number oneest fan.

Speaker 2 And she suggested it because when I was in high school, when I graduated from high school, she had gone to the JC for two years. So by the time I was ready to go to college, she was too.

Speaker 2 And so we both went to Sac State, which is Sacramento State University. It was precious.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 we both moved to and lived in Sacramento for like the same amount of time. And I've, of course, talked massive shit about Sacramento on this podcast.

Speaker 2 Wonderful things happened there, but not to me.

Speaker 2 And so near the end of right before I moved back home with my parents

Speaker 2 as an abject failure

Speaker 2 in my early 20s, I lived in this house on F Street.

Speaker 2 And it was in this weird, like, Sacramento is weird because as you go downtown closer to the Capitol, it's like all the old houses, they're old Victorians and stuff.

Speaker 2 And some of the streets are really gorgeous, but the neighborhood itself is really bad. And it's a very strange combination because it doesn't look like it should be bad.
But then there's like,

Speaker 2 one night in this apartment across the street, there was an empty lot that people would just dump garbage in.

Speaker 2 Oh my god, and two homeless people got into a fight, and one of them was beating the other one with a vacuum cleaner that someone had dumped in this empty lot.

Speaker 2 Oh my god, it was like that kind of area, and it was a horrible time in my life because I had flunked out of college.

Speaker 2 I think I worked at like two different cafes, so I was making like five dollars an hour.

Speaker 2 I remember those days, and you like you couldn't get any hours, so you were just like always just scraping together money.

Speaker 2 I remember at one point we would rent a VCR from the video store. We did that when I was a kid, too.
Yeah, because we didn't have one. But we'd be like, I want to watch a movie.

Speaker 2 It was like just dark. And then it was also summertime in Sacramento.
So it's always 110 degrees. So everything is just awful in a special way.
Also, at the time, the person I was roommates with,

Speaker 2 she had this friend, I think she was from high school. and together they were two of the most annoying people.

Speaker 2 Like, I'm surprised I didn't try to punch one of them because it was like this obnoxious, like, like hard girl act, but like, but it was like the Sacramento version, so there's a country element to it, and it was really like just kind of ignorant and rude.

Speaker 2 The kind of girls that are like, I don't get along with other girls. Exactly.
Yeah, I only like guys.

Speaker 2 It's like, well, then go fucking hang out with some guys and get away from me.

Speaker 2 There was, yeah, it was a lot of that kind of stuff where like they'd come home at four in the morning from a club and like knock on the door and be like, let me in.

Speaker 2 It was just everything was, I was livid. I was either livid or scared to death all the time.
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 So it turns out, come to find out, living in this apartment for a little while, that somebody who came over.

Speaker 2 put it together and goes, don't you realize that that is Dorothy two doors down is Dorothea Puentes house who's Dorothea Puente well Dorothea Puentes is the old lady in Sacramento that got caught she ran a boarding house for old people and like handicapped people and it turned out oh my gosh that she had been murdering them taking their social security check taking it across the street to the dive bar that was so scary we never even tried to go there so Dorothea Puentes basically I'll tell you so here's her story Let's hear it.

Speaker 2 She had a very sad childhood when she was eight. Her father died of tuberculosis, and the next year, her mother died in a car crash.
Fuck, those are like two of the worst ways to die.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 so she was in an orphanage for a little while, and then eventually she had to go live with family members in Fresno. Oh, no, it just gets sad.
That's one of the worst places to live. I mean,

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 2 in 1945, when she was 16, she got married for the first time.

Speaker 2 So she had, between 1946 and 1948, she had two daughters. One she sent to live with relatives in Sacramento, and the other one she gave up for adoption.

Speaker 2 So she was not

Speaker 2 able to deal with any kind of family situation at all.

Speaker 2 And I think she definitely has some kind of mental disorder, as you will see. So I'm sure she probably had it then, being a 16-year-old newlywed mother.

Speaker 2 Yeah, who had grown up in an orphanage not good who had two huge traumatic experiences when she was young with her parents dying back to back back to back so yeah fact um

Speaker 2 that husband that married her when she was 16 left her and uh left her in 1948 like a couple years later so um she started telling people he died of cancer um

Speaker 2 so oh no sorry died of a heart attack uh a couple days after they got married so it was like even more tragic for her

Speaker 2 So she's also in throughout this, it's like she's basically a compulsive liar. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And she started forging checks, which she ends up doing throughout her life. That's kind of her forte.
That's her favorite, that's her favorite crime. Such a weird crime.
It's super weird.

Speaker 2 And the funny thing is that you get caught and then you get sentenced for like a couple years and you get out because it's non-violent. And it's, I don't know, maybe it's kind of arty.

Speaker 2 So they're like, no, all right. It's such a weird

Speaker 2 dues. Like you hear about so many people who are like, they never had a violent offense.
They just forged checks. And it's like, well, that's, I would never think to do that.

Speaker 2 It's still a crime. I mean, yeah.

Speaker 2 You might have great penmanship and all, sure, but you're still a criminal. Uh, in 1960, she basically, and then she remarried a Swede named Axel Johansson, which fuck,

Speaker 2 you know, that that was a party. Oh, yeah, waiting to happen.
Of course, a violent alcoholic. They were married for 14 years.
Um,

Speaker 2 and then they ended it. And then eight years later, sorry,

Speaker 2 during that marriage, two years before she got divorced, she was arrested in a brothel. She told the cops that she was there visiting a friend.

Speaker 2 We don't know what is true about that. One of the articles I read said that she ran the brothel.
Oh, fuck. But it seems more likely since

Speaker 2 she was arrested and served 90 days. I think she was probably just there

Speaker 2 either visiting her friend or visiting some friends, whatever you might do. Running a brothel ain't an easy task.
That's a big job, and you don't just

Speaker 2 bail

Speaker 2 at the first arrest. So, what she ended up doing is going into, she became a nurse's aide and she started caring for the disabled and the elderly in private.
She turned her life around.

Speaker 2 Well, you would like to think that was. End of story.
Yeah, end of story.

Speaker 2 So, in 1982, she did that for a while. In 1982, her 61-year-old friend and business partner, Ruth Monroe,

Speaker 2 who was living in, so Dorothea had this house on F Street. It was this big Victorian.
Two doors down from Karen Kilgare.

Speaker 2 Two doors down from the future miserable home of miserable Karen Kilgariff.

Speaker 2 So there was an upstairs apartment that she would rent out. So she rented it out to Ruth Monroe.

Speaker 2 And they were business partners, which I guess means that they were working together, taking care of old people and disabled people in private homes.

Speaker 2 But Ruth died from an overdose of

Speaker 2 codeine and acetaminophen.

Speaker 2 And Dorothea told the police that Ruth was very depressed because her husband was terminally ill. So they ruled Ruth's death a suicide.

Speaker 2 But then a few weeks later, the police had to come back because a 74-year-old pensioner named Malcolm McKenzie had accused Dorothea of drugging and stealing from him.

Speaker 2 So he had gone to the police and said that he had met Dorothea at a local bar called the Zebra Club

Speaker 2 and that they had several drinks together, which I bet means in the 15s.

Speaker 2 Then he invites her back to his apartment. And soon after they arrive, he gets dizzy.
And even though he's conscious, he can't move.

Speaker 2 And he has to sit and watch as she searches his house for valuables takes his rare penny collection and forces the diamond ring off his finger rare penny can we go back to rare penny collection and how fucking cool that is yeah you know it was like you know cardboard book like this with all the years underneath the slots that makes me happy

Speaker 2 but

Speaker 2 well so she gets convicted of uh three charges of theft in on august 18th of 1982 and she gets sentenced to five years in jail for for for that wow um

Speaker 2 what happened to the rare penny collection i i we haven't been able to trace it so we're starting a foundation called find the rare pennies dot gov dot org

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 so she's in jail okay and she starts being pen pals

Speaker 2 with a retiree a 77-year-old retiree named Everson Gilmouth.

Speaker 2 And they become friends through the mail.

Speaker 2 And when she's released in 1985, after only serving three years,

Speaker 2 he was there waiting for her to pick her up from jail in his 1980 Red Ford pickup. And everything was okay.
And everything turned great.

Speaker 2 So soon they were making wedding plans and they opened a joint bank account. Nope.
And

Speaker 2 they were back in her house in Sacramento.

Speaker 2 Now we're cutting to five years later. Dorothea hires hires a handyman to come and put in some wood paneling in her apartment.
And for that work, plus he paid her an additional $800.

Speaker 2 She gave him a red

Speaker 2 1980 Ford pickup that was in good condition, almost totally not used,

Speaker 2 which she said had belonged to her ex-boyfriend who lived in Los Angeles. Yeah, where'd she get that?

Speaker 2 So she asks this handyman that she hires to build her a six by three by two foot box for her to store, you know, books and stuff. As you do in a fucking coffin.

Speaker 2 Yeah, a box that you want to store stuff in.

Speaker 2 And then she asks him, once she fills it with her books, I'm doing air quotes, you can't see.

Speaker 2 She says, Will you please take this to my storage depot? And he agrees, and she goes with him. And then on the way, she has him pull over and just has him dump it on a riverbank

Speaker 2 at a kind of unofficial dump site.

Speaker 2 It sounds unlikely, but again, we did have an unofficial dump site across from our apartment. Right, where you put coffin

Speaker 2 boxes,

Speaker 2 you know, or beat another person with a vacuum cleaner, whatever needs to happen.

Speaker 2 So, a lot of dumping going on up in Sacramento and Sutter County. Shit.
So,

Speaker 2 so they dumped that

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 oh, she just told him the stuff in the box was junk. Well, on January 1st, 1986, a fisherman spots the box,

Speaker 2 and it's sitting three feet from the bank of the river. So he calls the police, and they open the box and find a badly decomposed, unidentifiable body of an elderly man inside.

Speaker 2 Well, it turns out that Dorothea was still collecting Everson Gilmouth's pension, and she would write letters to his family explaining that he hadn't contacted them because he was ill and

Speaker 2 so he was basically one of her first victims.

Speaker 2 Now

Speaker 2 this was now a she was renting this apartment all the time. This was her business and she had 40 new tenants in the house in the whole house.

Speaker 2 She was actually approached by a social worker named Peggy Nickerson.

Speaker 2 She approached the social worker and just explained to her, just so you know, if people on fixed incomes, people on social security, elderly people,

Speaker 2 they can come and stay in my boarding house. Everyone's welcome.
Yeah. Because she had the best system to offer.

Speaker 2 Her prices were really low, and she took, quote-unquote, took care of the people that worked, that lived there. Those people are nice.
She made dinner every night.

Speaker 2 She had everybody come down and sit at dinner together.

Speaker 2 You know, she made sure there were people people that stayed there that were homeless or like had mental problems. She made sure they showered and clipped their nails.

Speaker 2 If it was real, that'd be so beautiful. I mean, yeah, right.
That's the whole lure of it: people need that kind of care. And she's saying that she's

Speaker 2 going to be able to provide that for them.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 sorry, I keep making that mistake.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 she

Speaker 2 also was known for taking tough cases. Like all the social workers were like, if it's a person that can't get placed anywhere, you can take them to Dorothea's.
She will take them in.

Speaker 2 And she collected their monthly mail.

Speaker 2 Before they saw it, she paid them in stipends and then she pocketed the rest of their like social security check or whatever their check was

Speaker 2 for expenses, quote unquote. You got to fucking so parole agents would go to visit her

Speaker 2 and she had been ordered to stay away from the elderly and to refrain from handling government checks. Oh my God.

Speaker 2 But no violations were ever noted.

Speaker 2 And they think it's because she was known in the like social welfare circles as being so good

Speaker 2 that they would go in and check and be like, you can't be around old people. You can't stay away from social security checks.
But nothing official would ever go in.

Speaker 2 Well, in May of 1988, neighbors started complaining of a sickly sweet smell.

Speaker 2 So she blamed the aroma on applications of fish emulsion on her perfectly tended lawn.

Speaker 2 And it tended to the point where if people walked on her lawn, she would scream at them and swear like a sailor.

Speaker 2 So she was very protective of her lawn, and she did a lot of gardening.

Speaker 2 So there was a man that stayed at the house, and people around the neighborhood knew him as Chief. He was schizophrenic and he was an alcoholic and he was homeless.

Speaker 2 When he went and stayed with Dorothea,

Speaker 2 she made him her handyman and she cleaned him all up, made sure that he took a shower all the time, like made him presentable, made him come and eat dinner with everybody, made him take his antipsychotic medication or his meds.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 she had him digging in the basement and carting soil and rubbish away with a wheelbarrow.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 he basically, there was a concrete slab on her basement floor. He was basically digging up the basement floor.

Speaker 2 What do you need it for, Sophia?

Speaker 2 He

Speaker 2 soon afterwards disappeared. And

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 2 when

Speaker 2 there was a second

Speaker 2 tenant disappeared, a developmentally disabled man who had schizophrenia. When his social worker reported him missing, his name was Alberto Montoya.

Speaker 2 The police came and

Speaker 2 realized

Speaker 2 this keeps happening here. So they were looking around and they noticed in the backyard there was some ground that had been recently disturbed.

Speaker 2 So these investigators went to the car, got the shovels that were in their car,

Speaker 2 and they started digging and quickly turned up what looked like shreds of cloth and beef jerky

Speaker 2 is the report. Ew.

Speaker 2 And so as they're trying to

Speaker 2 find out what's under there,

Speaker 2 one of the investigators said that he thought that he hit a tree root. And so he was whacking at it and jabbing at it with his shovel and it wouldn't move.

Speaker 2 So he decides to climb down into the hole.

Speaker 2 where that they had dug up to get to pull it out. And he wrapped his hands around it, braced himself, started pulling, and it broke loose and it was a leg bone out of the socket.

Speaker 2 They had to suspect that at that point or they wouldn't have been digging, right? Yes. So why are you fucking yanking bodies? You thought it was a tree root.
Come on, though.

Speaker 2 Like, you're looking for bodies. But if it's...
Well, but I mean, they're looking, but a tree root is the most likely thing that's going to be there.

Speaker 2 So if they, I'm sure that they'd done stuff like that before, and it's like, yeah, I mean, that would would be there

Speaker 2 20% of the time but most of the time it's that

Speaker 2 and also I think

Speaker 2 when bodies that aren't that are buried just straight into the ground they turn black and brown so it would have probably looked like a tree root too.

Speaker 2 Yes. So then they start digging up her whole backyard.
Holy shit.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 oh, she came out when he was down in the hole and he had this bone. She came out and when they turned around, they were like, We just found a human bone.

Speaker 2 She did, they said they did this thing where she slapped her hands on her face, like really over the top, and in like trying to act like she was surprised.

Speaker 2 And they immediately were like, There's something going on. Like, that's the weirdest thing.
Like, straight up, home alone style, home alone style, exactly. That's where they got that from.

Speaker 2 Um, and apparently, neighbors said that she always talked about wanting to be an actress and planning on moving to Los Angeles. She's a bad actress, I guess.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. She needed to take some classes.
So,

Speaker 2 this body that they eventually dug up was

Speaker 2 a woman named Leona Carpenter, who was 78 years old, and one of her very, Dorothea's very first victims that stayed in that house.

Speaker 2 They basically had the coroner's office came in with heavy machinery and a whole work crew and just started, and forensic anthropologists and started digging up this entire backyard.

Speaker 2 And that, I've seen the news footage that's basically taken from the angle of

Speaker 2 because they couldn't get in. So it's basically taken from our back porch.
Holy shit. I mean, not literally, I don't know, because it was 1988, but they shot it over the fence

Speaker 2 and you see these cops walking around. And it's just like the, you see a lot of sheets and like the, when they put out the string and the stakes,

Speaker 2 you know, like this will be the next area. Oh my God.
It's so crazy.

Speaker 2 So since Dorothea Puentes wasn't immediately Puente singular, wasn't immediately a suspect.

Speaker 2 What?

Speaker 2 She, I mean, like, they didn't, when they were doing that first digging, it wasn't like keep her right there. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 So she said she was going to go get a cup of coffee at the hotel up the street while they were doing that. And then she fucking hightails it to Los Angeles.
Well, now they know it's you, dude.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but she, I mean, she left. So she thought she was out of there.
Yeah. And she and she didn't think they were on to her the way that they were.
So when she gets to Los Angeles, she goes to a bar

Speaker 2 and she starts making friends with an old pensioner

Speaker 2 who's sitting at the bar. She introduced herself as, I think it was Donna Johanson.
What bar do we know?

Speaker 2 It didn't. Oh, God, I wish.
It did. It was great.
The articles I read didn't say. It's got to be something.
that we know. Something dive-y.
Maybe the frolic room. Frolic room for sure.

Speaker 2 That's exactly what I was thinking. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But luckily, this old pensioner had probably been sitting at their bar watching the news a bunch

Speaker 2 recognized her from the news and called the cops.

Speaker 2 So they got her down in LA and brought her back up.

Speaker 2 Eventually, seven bodies were found buried in her backyard. Wow.

Speaker 2 She was charged with a total of nine murders because they

Speaker 2 traced back the

Speaker 2 the apparent suicide of her old Ruth Monroe.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 2 the other guy.

Speaker 2 The missing guy chief. Oh, man, do you think the grandpa at the frolic room got a reward?

Speaker 2 I don't know. I bet he did.

Speaker 2 Here's what's interesting.

Speaker 2 When detectives were in that backyard, they realized that they were only blocks away from the home of serial killer Morris Solomon, where they had dug up from that house a bunch of dead bodies in 1987.

Speaker 2 Who's he? I don't know him. I have never heard of him either.
Whoa. And Sacramento, I just got to say,

Speaker 2 I mean, like, I've talked about it. I've complained about it, but like, I must be a little bit right

Speaker 2 because we've already had, I think, four

Speaker 2 serial killers from Sacramento on this show alone. It's chock full of murders.
It's nutso.

Speaker 2 So basically, at the end of the day, she went to trial in February 1993. She was convicted

Speaker 2 of

Speaker 2 three murders, sentenced to two life sentences,

Speaker 2 received life without the possibility of parole.

Speaker 2 She went to Chow Chilla. the ladies' facility.

Speaker 2 She always said that all those people died of natural causes and she just buried them there.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 that she herself at age 82, March 27th, 2011, died of natural causes in prison. Wow.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's our girl. Girl, Dorothea.
That's our hometown girl. She would take their checks, walk across the street to that dive bar and get her money.
They cash checks at dive bars? They cash checks at

Speaker 2 certain bars that are so divey, they will cash your social security check for you. So like they're like second Friday of every month is like, huge.
You got to get a couple bartenders on staff.

Speaker 2 That's right. Because, well, and also, it's Sacramento.
Like, literally, the state capitol was blocks away. So, they know they're getting their money.
If it's a government check,

Speaker 2 they know that thing is good. So, they don't, if it's that little old lady that runs the boarding house, of course, they're going to do her a favor.
She brings everyone over and she takes her portion.

Speaker 2 And that's right.

Speaker 2 She's so nice. She's taking care of all those people inside that building.
Saint-Chaw, what did it smell like in that fucking building?

Speaker 2 And that dive bar, too. I mean, the whole block.

Speaker 2 I bet it was carpeted. That house? No, the dive bar.
Oh, yes, for sure.

Speaker 2 Like dark maroon. Yeah, like thin dark maroon, like bowling alley carpet.
I bet they had like a, uh, it was a pretty small, and they had a pool table that was too close to one wall.

Speaker 2 So then they had to cut a pool cue in half

Speaker 2 so that you could shoot from that side of the table. Is that what they do? I've never seen that.
I've seen it in dive bars. I guess I have not been in like real dive bars then.

Speaker 2 You gotta become a full-blown alcoholic. It is so fun

Speaker 2 i went to one full-blown like real real dive bar in um savannah georgia but like on the outskirts of it and i was like oh this isn't a charming la dive bar there's a confederate flag on the wall and i'm the only jew who's ever been in here and i'm just

Speaker 2 left they should have taken your picture and put it up behind the bar that was terrifying um wow yeah that's so sad i mean

Speaker 2 it's crazy and when you saw her on the news, like she was on the news all the time. I didn't see her picture.
I totally remember it. She looks like a cartoon of a little old lady.
No, like not even.

Speaker 2 Big glasses. She's really short, gray hair, the whole thing.
I was never thinking. How did she kill everyone? She just poisoned them or drunk?

Speaker 2 I mean, I think so.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Oh, man.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 that's fucked up. Pretty fucked up.
Okay, so now we're ending this show

Speaker 2 on we're ending on a positive now. That's right.
One really great thing that happened to us this past week. Right.
Right. So do you have yours?

Speaker 2 Do you have yours? Sure.

Speaker 2 A really great thing is that I hung out Sunday evening with a girlfriend that I like a lot and we've gotten to know each other a lot, but we like had this great deep conversation.

Speaker 2 Like we hang out with a lot of people. together.
Her name's Crystal. But she and I sat at a bar and just fucking talked and we're like, I'm not very happy.

Speaker 2 And just like, we're very open with each other in a way that's like hard to find when you're an adult is someone to like be really open with and just, you know, who understands you and you guys can get each other.

Speaker 2 And that's, that's hard to do. And we just had this really great conversation and I felt a lot better after it and kind of feel like I've made a friend

Speaker 2 that for a long time. It's a kind of a deeper connection and it was nice.
That's great. Yeah.
That's very good. It's yours.
It's all that matters. Yeah.

Speaker 2 They say in human connection is really it's nothing else makes people actually happy except for connecting with other human beings. Really? Yeah.
Oh, shit.

Speaker 2 I guess mine is that

Speaker 2 I don't, well, I don't know if I'm allowed to talk about that because

Speaker 2 it sucks because all I've been doing is working. So most of mine are work-based, which is a little bit lame.
But,

Speaker 2 well, you know what? I can. Okay, you're proud of yourself.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. No, yeah.
You just can't.

Speaker 2 but I mean, it's like when you have one thing to talk about, whereas people are like, hey, what's up with you? It's like, just don't bother asking, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 But there's a guy that's a guest star. I guess I just won't say his name, and then when the show's actually on, I can say it.
But

Speaker 2 he's on my episode, and he's so funny. It's like the most delightful thing in the world.

Speaker 2 I mean, everybody on this show is really good, and I'm very excited for this show to come out because I think people are really going to like it.

Speaker 2 But this one guy is hilarious, and he looks like the guy that I adored in high school. So it makes it even more fun to watch him because it's like it almost looks like a weird

Speaker 2 mashup. Like you're rooting for him already because

Speaker 2 but then on top of that, it's the kind of thing where you can't, it's like single camera, like you can't laugh out loud when things are happening because they need like perfect quiet.

Speaker 2 And I have to keep my hand over my mouth. He's so funny.
Wow. And that's the shit you've written too.

Speaker 2 Yeah, some of it. I mean, some of it.

Speaker 2 But at one point, I went up, I had to finally introduce myself because I was actually, he was so funny that I was nervous to, I didn't want to be like, hey, what's up, right, or whatever.

Speaker 2 I was just kind of like trying to stay away.

Speaker 2 And when I finally did go up to introduce myself, I said, in my head, I thought I was going to say, you know, like, you're great or today has been so great or something like that.

Speaker 2 But what came out was, you're being so funny.

Speaker 2 And the second the last word of that sentence came out of my mouth, I just turned and walked away. So I was just like,

Speaker 2 hopefully I just won't have to talk to him. I can't wait till this cuts and I got to find out who it is.
Yes.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's some people may have seen him before, but it's not, he's not well known. Okay.
You don't feel like I'm not telling you until it airs either. You won't tell me.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we'll keep it a huge secret until next spring because it's a mid-season replacement.

Speaker 2 Well, thanks for listening, you guys. This is, oh, we never introduced what the show was.

Speaker 2 Oh, no one knows. Oh, that's too bad.
This is my favorite murder. This is what the fuck with Mark Marin.

Speaker 2 Thanks for listening. I'm Marin.

Speaker 2 Go to Twitter, MyFave Murder, Instagram, MyFavorite Murder. We're on Facebook at MFM Podcast.
Our shirts,

Speaker 2 myfavorite murder shirts.com. Everything.
Thank you so much for listening and supporting and being active, involved people. We love it.
It's very fun. You guys are the best, and this is so great.

Speaker 2 Stay sexy. Don't get murdered.
Elvis, you want a cookie?

Speaker 2 Want a cookie?

Speaker 2 Awesome. The answer is yes.

Speaker 1 Okay, we are back from your story. Karen, any updates on Dorothea Puente?

Speaker 1 Well, I do have an update, which is that I'm blown away that I started this by saying that my sister is the show's newest listener and number one fan, and she's the one that suggested this story.

Speaker 1 Yeah. My sister has never listened to this podcast.
Really? No. Not once.
I think she used to listen in the beginning when we were just chatting, but she has so much anxiety.

Speaker 1 She cannot listen to True Crime. Like, she can't do it.

Speaker 1 And so that's just really funny because there's like, I will have full conversations with multiple people and she'll just be sitting there like smiling where I'm like, you could get in here.

Speaker 1 You could support me at any time. No, thank you.
She's like, I know you. No, yeah.
I'll never give you that satisfaction. Ultimately,

Speaker 1 the other one is that I just want to update this for my own credit. Okay.

Speaker 1 When I was talking about the person that I was working with on the show that I was working with, and I had to keep my mouth covered because he was so funny that I didn't want, you can't laugh out loud on set, obviously.

Speaker 1 That whole story was about Tim Robinson from I Think You Should Leave. Oh my God.
And what show is it? It was the show called Making History. I think there was only five episodes on.

Speaker 1 It was very, very short run. I was lucky enough to be the writer on the episode where he showed up as Al Capone.
Oh, wow. Oh my God.

Speaker 1 It was a true hang with Tim Robinson before I Think You Should Leave came out. So you were probably also covering your mouth because you hadn't had your teeth fixed yet.
Remember that?

Speaker 1 I was very like demure,

Speaker 1 a demure giggler because my teeth were insane Irish teeth. How crazy is that? That like your life is so different now because you have these beautiful pearly whites.

Speaker 1 I can't wait to see Tim Robinson again and show him. Be like, look at these motherfuckers.
Look at my guffaw now.

Speaker 1 Big fan, big fan. Okay, so, but then there are also case updates.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So for the Dorothea Puente case, which is kind of my college hometown,

Speaker 1 it was a real joy. And that conversation went on forever on Twitter.
Like people from Sacramento being like, why do you have to be like this to us? And, you know, there was a lot of emotion.

Speaker 1 That was where the beef from Sacramento started. Yeah.
I started and ended that beef all by myself. And people in Sacramento are like, we don't care about you.
Shut up.

Speaker 1 So in 2010, Dorothea Puente's house was sold at an auction.

Speaker 1 So this was the house, a boarding house where she was killing the boarders and taking their social security checks and cashing them across the street at the diviest bar my eyes have ever set their eyes upon.

Speaker 1 Amazing. The house was sold at auction for $226,000.
Wow.

Speaker 1 2010. Still that sounds like a still sounds cheap.
It's a bargain. Yeah.
According to the Sacramento B, the couple who purchased it outbid one other contestant in a packed room.

Speaker 1 Oh, and everyone was like, stay away from them. Yeah.
They're like, so you do want the house where the bodies were buried in the backyard. You're going to fight someone over.
winning it.

Speaker 1 Over living in a haunted house. Oh, my God.
So today the homeowners lean into the house's macabre history and there's, you know, they basically have made it a little bit of a museum.

Speaker 1 There's frame photographs on the wall documenting Puente's history there. There's like a mannequin that looks like her on the front porch.
I've seen that. Yeah.
But the owners are very clear.

Speaker 1 They think she obviously was an awful, horrible person, but it's like people are going to

Speaker 1 come by. They're going to come by.
Yeah, I like that they're like, look, we know this is weird and we're going to go with it instead of like just pretending everything is fine, la, la, la. Right.

Speaker 1 You know? Because you can't have a story like that. And I think that was, you know, obviously what I was talking about when I told it, where it's just like,

Speaker 1 we always hear those kinds of horror stories, but when it's two two doors down right like when these things happen the block is affected the neighbors are affected they're they're the price of their homes are affected yeah that's like i saw recently like a whole slideshow on instagram of this person going like house to house in l a of like the brady bunch house the et house the wonder years house and you know people in that neighborhood have to get so sick of that probably and i wonder if i don't think i'd move into a house that people would be taking photos in front of all the time i don't think so i wouldn't wouldn't want to.

Speaker 1 Unless the windows were all in the back. Right.
And it was really cheap, in which case, this was. So

Speaker 1 good for them. I mean, and I think it's a great area.
I think now it's an even better area. Yeah, good for them.
Yeah. All right.
Let's stop talking about ourselves.

Speaker 1 Let's stop talking about ourselves through Dorothea Puente. Yeah.
And instead, rename this episode. I love Liminal Space, though.

Speaker 1 The idea of it is fun, but if we were naming it today, perhaps we would call this episode Back from Camp because that's what we had joked about in the beginning. Oh, right.
So, Back from Camp.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we're going to the normal format that bought me these teeth. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Or we could rename it Daddy Wants to Come Home, which is what I said to you when I was complaining about having two jobs and wishing I had more time for this podcast.

Speaker 1 You're going to have more time for this job, and it's going to be the most time-consuming job you've ever, like, more than having three jobs at once, it turns out.

Speaker 1 So true. I have, I had to hire people to help me live the rest of my life so I could get this stuff done.
Totally. It's not, I want to warn her, it's not going to get better.

Speaker 1 Oh, she knows. She can feel it in her bones.
She'll have the money for new teeth. So that's really the

Speaker 1 here's the yeah, the teeth have always been the goal. Yeah.
Huge piece of Dorito in the corner of my mouth. But I had to say this,

Speaker 1 and I'm, I hope, and I'm pretty sure you feel the same exact way.

Speaker 1 What an insanely rewarding experience. Like all of it has been.

Speaker 1 But to now have a job on par with the job I used to have for a different person, all of the energy, all of the creative ideas, all of everything getting poured into somebody else that just walks away like,

Speaker 1 here's my thing, which is what a writer does for Luna, is what you agree to. But to sit there kind of brokenhearted, like I wish it could have been me.
Yeah. And then now to be here.

Speaker 1 You're hustling for yourself. It makes it like truly a lovely, joyous thing.

Speaker 1 And then to be able to hire people that it's like, yeah, let's not hire the people we've worked with in the past that permanently traumatized us.

Speaker 1 Let's give the jobs to the people who are like other versions of ourselves. Right.

Speaker 1 People that, you know, like Danielle Kramer, who is George's recommendation, knowing her from like meltdown, is our COO. And like, couldn't have been a better match.
It's like.

Speaker 1 And we want her to not feel like she's hustling for someone else and it's like fucking, she hates it. We want it to be like fun for her and to feel like she's getting something out of it.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's bigger than just like this fucking guy is walking away. We want to control her and everyone else around us's feelings and we're going to.
And we do. And we will.
And thank you for listening.

Speaker 1 And yours too. And stay sexy.
Don't get murdered.

Speaker 1 Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Elvis, do you want a cookie?

Speaker 1 No one brings out your inner monster like a bad neighbor.

Speaker 1 Claire Danes and Matthew Reese find that out for themselves in The Beast in Me, a new eight-episode drama from the team that brought you homeland. Danes plays Aggie Wiggs, a grieving writer.

Speaker 1 Reese plays Niall Jarvis, her new neighbor and possible murderer. But who's the monster and who's the bad neighbor? That's another story.

Speaker 1 It's a game of cat and mouse that sets them on a collision course with fatal consequences. The Beast in Me, now playing only on Netflix.
You will not want to miss this. Goodbye.
Goodbye.

Speaker 1 This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. Okay, let's talk holiday shopping.
From now through through December 8th, you can get 20% cash back when you pay in four with PayPal. No fees, no interest.

Speaker 1 This limited time offer is perfect for the Black Friday and Cyber Monday deals you've been eyeing. Save the offer in the app now.

Speaker 1 So, whether you're buying tickets to an improv show or a whodunit board game, PayPal helps you make the most of your money this holiday. Expires December 8th.

Speaker 1 See PayPal.com/slash promo terms subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com/slash payin4, PayPal Inc., NMLS 910-457.
Goodbye. Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Reading a skincare label shouldn't feel like decoding a dead language. Instead of mystery ingredients, Crunchy gives you skincare and makeup that's safe and effective.

Speaker 1 Crunchy delivers uncompromised clean beauty with clinically proven ingredients, sustainable packaging, and trusted certifications like EWG Verified and Leaping Bunny.

Speaker 1 Crunchy is creating a future where clean beauty is a genuine promise, not just a marketing term, because trusting what you put on your skin should be the standard, not the luxury.

Speaker 1 From their award-winning foundation to their nourishing skincare line, Crunchy is raising the bar. It's so true.

Speaker 1 So, I've been putting on more makeup than I ever have in my life because we've been doing videos and live shows.

Speaker 1 And so, I am really, really careful about what I put on my skin because I break out easily. So, I love that Crunchy is so clean and so nourishing.

Speaker 1 I'm actually wearing makeup that's good for my skin and makes my skin look better instead of hiding all the imperfections, which is usually what I use makeup for, honestly.

Speaker 1 Visit crunchy.com to shop Clean Beauty That Performs and take 20% off your order with code MFM. That's code MFM at C-R-U-N-C-H-I dot com.
The real clean beauty. Go ahead.
Goodbye.