499 - First Live Show in 6 Years!!

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I think this is one of those moments where people say it's the thought that counts.

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Goodbye.

What's up, Denver?

Wow.

Incredible work, you guys.

You did it.

Incredible.

And that's it, right?

Yeah, we're done.

Bye.

Oh, my God.

I can't believe this is happening.

Oh, my God.

Yeah,

it's been a long time coming.

It's been a minute.

I forgot what this feels like.

It's pretty fucking awesome for you guys.

Hi, how are you guys tonight?

I mean.

I feel like I should say, just as we start,

we're not going to remember our lines.

There's going to be things that you remember that we do not remember.

It's been six years since we have been on stage.

Yeah.

Except for

when we came to the bananas show here in Denver.

That's right.

And

we only want to perform live in Denver.

I guess that's what we're seeing.

You want to talk about your outfit?

What you're wearing today?

We're immediately moving on to outfits.

I don't know.

I don't remember how to do this.

Talk about your tights.

Oh,

these are tights, and we made a post about this.

I just realized, I would say 11 minutes ago, that I did not have any tights with me at all.

So my friend Vicki and my friend Craig ran out and bought them like truly at the 11th hour.

It was very scary, very mean, very mean.

We almost canceled the whole thing.

We almost

had to just say, you know what?

Everybody go home.

I'm hot in an unhealthy way.

Yeah.

That's like, I don't think is okay.

Who else here is in perimenopause, menopause, or postmenopause?

Hell yeah.

Let's get angry over nothing.

Everybody now.

The air conditioning's not on in the car.

Oh my fucking God.

Um,

where'd you get your outfit, Georgia?

I got my outfit today

at a vintage store here

called Goldmine.

Is that right?

Yes!

Is that right?

That's right.

Yeah, I went in there, I had my whole outfit planned for like weeks, and then I was like, I should probably just go to a vintage store real quick here.

Found this fucking insane vintage dress.

It looks like it's great.

It's tailored to fit.

I know.

It's crazy.

I'm wearing lots of undergarments.

And

then I steamed it

backstage, and I can definitely like smell the vintage.

You can smell the ladies of the past.

Yeah.

It's a show dress, not a party dress.

What did those ladies smell like?

Just describe it to us right now.

It's a dusty, musty, mothball,

cigarette perfume martini.

Yeah.

Our kind of lady.

That's right.

Nice.

I mean, that's an incredible vintage stroke of luck.

Yes.

Yes.

I want to do it every city, I think.

Just not bring anything.

Bring jeans to wear.

Yeah.

Just be like, fuck it.

And then find something in the city that fits perfectly.

It's perfect.

This is the first fucking night of our tour.

It's so funny.

Thank you for selling it out two nights in a row.

You guys are the best.

Then what do we do?

Oh, I'm going to tell them about my dress now.

Oh, yeah, go for it.

It has pockets, ladies and gentlemen.

The arc.

The spin arc.

Work it.

Right?

Yeah.

Did you see their spin

in a hot dog?

Holy shit.

We've got a hot dog in the front row.

No, it's all you.

Yeah.

It's all you.

She should be our ambassador, probably.

Oh, that would be good.

Wait, are you from around here?

Okay.

Will you know how to pronounce street names and the kind of things that people yell at us about?

Good as well.

My guess is stolen.

Oh.

Her guess.

Hey, hot dog, fuck off.

We're not having you, hot dog, drive us down some weird blind alley, and then everybody on this side's furious, and everybody on this side posts on social media.

We can't do it again, hot dog.

And at the end of it, she takes her fucking hot dog costume off and hides it because she knows on the way out people are going to shame her and be like, I'm not the hot dog.

It's like, you're the fucking hot dog.

Hot dog shame is the worst kind of hot dog.

Shame.

The worst kind of shame.

Yeah.

What is this?

I don't fucking know.

It feels like a fever dream.

What a joy.

What a joy.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for being here.

We're very, very excited to be here.

There's been a lot of

buildup.

Lots.

People are fighting in the walkways.

It's exciting.

This is the kind of stuff.

Can I just, how about we share our favorite live show memories with each other?

I think we've done this on the show.

Okay, you go first because I don't remember any of it.

Wait, hot dog, you tell me.

Have I told this story already on the show?

My favorite live show memory is when, and it was kind of right there, but I can't, I think we were in.

Washington, DC I think it was

was it Miami it's the throwing up story oh no

I think it was King's Theater in Brooklyn

when literally seven minutes into the show

an usher and very angry usher justifiably so had to walk down and snap out a big black glad black glad garbage bag to start to clean up someone's barf

right at the beginning

right at the beginning of however they served this like they served canned wine right which is like that's it's and then some kind of cocktail that like surely made everyone shit-faced immediately yeah i think it was like a karen in georgia long island iced tea type of situation that people got very excited about right so we didn't technically make her throw up we didn't make her but we were a big part of it

and that's what the legacy of this podcast will be when we finally wrap this motherfucker up.

Oh, what?

This is my favorite murder of the podcast.

Yeah!

Yeah!

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

That person over there forgot to clap, and then when I looked at them, they were like, oh, that's her.

Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Sorry.

Yep.

It's kind of part of the show.

It's hard with podcasts because you're just used to like hearing us in your head, like you're hallucinating a little bit, arguing about the stuff we're getting wrong.

I thought you were the other one, and she was you this whole time.

Yeah, there's that.

That's a big piece of it.

Has anyone been to a show before, a live show?

Okay, great.

We're gonna rely on you to tell us how this recording goes.

Thank you.

Should we?

Is it time to sit down?

Should we do it?

All right, let's do this.

Look at this.

I know.

How mad men are we?

This is all from article, promo code murder.

I really needed to sit down because I need to demurely grab the tissue I tucked into my...

There we go.

There it is.

Where'd you have that?

Where was that, Georgia?

Up in the carriage.

Under carriage.

In her Kleenex undercarriage.

Sponsored by Kleenex.

Oh man, I really thought I'd

get over this by now, this fucking tissue thing, but I think it's a great personality trait.

Yeah.

It's one of your

foremost personality traits.

Yeah, it's a martini, dusty, mothball tissue, girl.

I mean,

what if you were the ghost of the woman who owned that dress before?

I love that for me.

Magical.

Wow.

And then what do we do?

Oh, yeah.

We don't really want you to yell at us.

Remember, I'm the bitchy one.

That's right.

That's right.

I was a big bitch back before it was trendy.

Remember that?

I was all alone with it.

Now we're all here, 2025.

Everyone's a bitch now.

Just cutting it up all over the place.

As is our right.

I mean, it's enough is enough.

Yeah, since the last time we saw you, our rights have have been taken away.

Our bodily autonomy has been taken away.

And I think by the end of this tour, we should figure out what to do about that.

Absolutely.

In the meantime, we're just going to have a fun podcast.

How about that?

Oh, I forgot to take a beta blocker.

I just remembered.

Not only that, I drank a fucking Red Bull.

Oh!

This is going to be fun for...

That's the poor man's speedball right there.

Yeah, girl.

Can you check in about how it feels to be up and down at the same time?

My skin is tingling.

Yes.

For sure.

And

yeah, I'm hot again in a weird.

Like feel my, you can't see.

Yeah, I'll feel your neck.

Oh, that's very hot.

That's kind of a George Foreman grill heat right there.

And not even that cool.

It's like, oh.

Yeah.

Do you want to tell them the people who haven't been here before, the drag-alongs, like the rules of the show?

We know you're out there.

You poor, poor people that don't listen to this podcast, but had to come anyway tonight.

We call you drag-alongs.

We personally apologize.

We do.

We understand.

You're a great friend.

You're a very good friend or sister or whatever.

Here's the thing.

If you're going to use your camera, you can't have the flash on, grandma.

Yeah,

check your stats there before you throw the camera up and then put a big light in our fucking face.

Please don't get that usher angrier at us than he already is.

Hell yeah, you made the fucking usher or security guard laugh.

That's a win for you.

That's all we need.

That's the point.

That's all we're looking for.

Because they're like, what the fuck is this show tonight?

And why do I have to work it?

Yeah.

These two weird chicks with a rug.

Yeah.

What?

Look, it's this thing called podcasting.

They started it.

Mark Barron started it in 2011, and it's gone since then.

It's just like that.

That wasn't real.

They're like, she's stealing the history of podcasts.

Old Man Marin started it way back when.

2011.

We say, this is a comedy, true crime podcast, which is kind of hard for some people who don't like comedy, true crime, or podcasts to understand.

Which we understand.

We get it.

We don't think murder is funny.

We think we're funny.

And finally, there might be other lines, but I can't remember.

If you don't like it, you can get the fuck out.

But we don't want you to.

What else should we say?

What else is there to say?

Oh, wait, just really quick, because we're back at a live show, it does feel like a kind of a monumental event.

Are you going to propose to me?

Yeah, give me that big fucking ring right now.

Give me a big fucking ring.

I'm Taylor Swift bitch

I just wanted to give a shout out to Steven he's not dead but he's also not here

he's totally fine He's fine.

He's still our friend.

He hasn't cut us out of his will for life.

No.

He actually recently sent me a picture of a sinkhole and then it was his friend that did it and then they went and put one of our t-shirts.

It was a Here's the the thing t-shirt, and they just put it right at the edge of the sinkhole.

And when I looked at the picture, you know, sometimes you look at your phone, you see the picture before you see who sent it or what the hell is going on.

And I was just like, wait, what?

Is someone threatening me?

Like, wait.

Sinkles have merch now?

And they're ripping off our merch?

It's amazing.

Sinkles have merch.

Hell yeah.

Right?

Yes.

Can I really quick, just one technical thing.

Can we hear ourselves on the monitor just a hint more?

I can't hear a word she's saying when she's on me.

Just a little more.

Just laughing.

A little more us.

This is where the show gets good because we can actually hear each other talking.

I like this.

I'm sure it's funny, but what if it was sad?

I just laughed hysterically at it.

We look out and Hot Dog is sobbing.

Just like, no, it's supposed to be funny.

How's this?

This is better?

This is good.

Yes.

So this tour.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

This tour is really hard because we've almost done 500 fucking episodes to this podcast.

Thank you.

Most people quit at 63.

Just a quick reminder.

They should.

So I think finding stories that we haven't done in the city or the state,

okay, if it's the state, don't boo.

It's hard, right?

Yeah, we have to dig.

So, yeah.

Luckily, we have our researchers, Marin and Ali, who bust their asses for us.

Badass.

Do amazing work.

Our producer, Molly Smith, who came on.

Yes, you can totally applaud Molly Smith.

Amazing.

Basically, in two weeks became the producer of this podcast.

So we love her.

She

makes it work, as do we could be naming lots of people that work at ERM right now, but I'm just thinking of the people that literally got us to these seats right now.

Did we win an award?

We have to like thank, thank everyone now.

And my mother.

not all group chats are the same just like not all atoms are the same Adam Brody for instance uses whatsapp to pin messages send events and settle debates using polls with his friends all in one group chat makes our guys night easier but Adam Scott group messages with an app that isn't whatsapp which means he still can't find that text from his friends about where to meet Hang on still scrolling now the address is here somewhere it's time for whatsapp message privately with everyone top Reasons Technology Pros want to move to Ohio, a thriving tech industry with high-paying jobs for programmers, developers, database architects, and more.

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All right, should we start?

You should start.

You go first.

I'm first this time.

Yeah.

Thank you.

It's confusing because we're going by stories, who goes first, not by like who's supposed to actually go first.

So I'm sure we'll get it wrong one day.

And right?

Yeah, as we tend to do.

It's kind of our style.

All right.

Well,

I'm going to do a story tonight.

It's technically one of Colorado's oldest cold cases.

You guys know I love cold cases.

Even though it was probably solved, I'm going to need you because I have a theory too, and I think I'm right.

Always.

I'll figure out a way to argue with you.

No, you'll like it.

So, okay.

In the early 1900s, a prominent businessman was killed, leading to a winding investigation, several scapegoats, and ultimately an escape from justice.

This is the story of the murder of William Dickens.

Is anyone related to him here?

You guys,

we're in Longmont, Colorado.

Longmont!

He's like one of your founders, like your founding father.

So you should know this.

Yeah.

He founded it for you.

It's right.

And so the sources used in today's episode are episode story.

I I always do that.

That's right.

A WordPress essay titled Mysterious Death of William H.

Dickens by Carol Turner and an article from the Colorado Culture Magazine called The Oldest Unsolved Murder in Boulder was probably solved a century ago by Erica Sims.

The other sources in our show notes, so look them up right now.

What if you did the whole story in that voice?

You did it.

I did.

Got it, like, just channel the woman who wore this dress before if she just light up the sick.

Oh my god.

What else do I have in my sphanx, do you think?

Just start pulling shit.

Caprice.

Okay.

This is scary.

I can't believe we're doing this.

I mean, I'm going first and I'm

terrified.

You're really leading it, leading the way here.

You got it.

Don't get it twisted.

We seem fucking cool and collected, but we are.

I am not right now.

No, I know.

Speak for yourself.

Karen took the beta blocker, not me.

Jealous.

Okay.

Thank you.

That one person supports you.

Mom?

Janet?

Is that you?

Janet's here?

Okay.

So it's the night of November 30th, 19.

Holy shit, this is fucking weird.

I'm not kidding you.

1914, Carrie just texted me and told me that's when this ring is from, 1914.

Whoa.

Oh my god, that's spooky.

This is crazy.

I didn't do it on purpose?

No.

Wow.

Admit it now if you did.

Everyone, no one thinks it's as crazy as I do, right?

That's fucking bananas.

There's a ghost.

There's a ghost.

My diamonds.

My diamonds are haunted.

By this fucking story.

Stop it.

Okay.

November 30th, 1914, a 71-year-old businessman named William Dickens and his wife Ida are relaxing.

They're reading in the library of their home.

Me too.

In Longmount, Colorado.

It's a little bit north of Boulder.

I love Boulder.

It's got this big boulder.

Did you see the moth?

There's a little moth, but it's good luck, right?

Yeah, moths are good luck, so don't kill it.

There, I see it.

Okay, stop.

About 8 p.m., they're chilling in their library, as rich people do.

When a bullet pierces the library window and hits William in the back, it passes all the way through him, which is not good, and grazes Ida's cheek and then lands in the wall.

Ida's injury is minor, and she jumps to her husband's aid, but tragically she watches as he passes away within 10 minutes of being shot.

Wow.

The drag-alongs are like, this was not sold to me as

I thought it would be.

They're like, I fought with you in the car all the way over here just for this.

Okay, so let's back up a little bit, as we like to do, and talk about the Dickens family.

William Henry Dickens is born, this dude, born on May 25th, 1843, on a ship in the Atlantic Ocean.

Sounds fucking fucking horrible for her, for the mother.

Yeah, for real, right?

Yeah, it's just like the go for the purser there to help boiling water or something.

Yeah.

A boat reference, no one?

Okay.

That's how your parents met.

It is, right?

We're cruise line people.

Congratulations.

Thank you so much.

So

his parents moved, are moving the family from England by way of Quebec when Mary gives birth to William.

It's probably a nightmare on board the ship.

You can assume.

Also,

having a baby in international waters.

Oh.

Where's that baby from?

That's a great question.

The ocean?

Everywhere?

The little mermaid movie?

Does he get to go back to the ocean anytime he wants because he's a citizen?

Just talks right in.

Like, I get to live here now, like, I want to do in Ireland.

Wouldn't that be great?

But I can't.

Okay.

Da da da da.

The family are all distant relatives of that, you guessed it, English English author Charles Dickens.

Oh my god, I knew that.

Yeah, your favorite.

For real?

Yeah, yeah, because that's their last name, Dickens.

Remember?

Yeah.

Which indicates being related to someone.

Yeah.

Always.

Yeah.

Which is also Allie's probably like, Georgia probably didn't remember any of this because she told me some of the names that Charles Dickens, of his books.

Oh, nice.

So, but I know, Allie.

I know.

Let's see him so we can finally cheer for Charles Dickens the way we've always wanted to.

Oliver Twists.

Yeah.

Great expectations.

My favorite.

And a Christmas Harold.

I love the Muppet one.

So good.

I read that one.

Soon after arriving in Quebec, the family then moves to Wisconsin and William's father.

Sure.

All right.

Cheese heads in the crowd.

The father and sisters pass away as they're wont to do back then, like everyone just fucking gets a cold and dies.

They died.

You know what they did a lot?

They coughed into like a kerchief and died a lot.

Ooh, flummy.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's right.

So his mother, Mary,

remarries a man named Alonzo Nelson Allen.

They remain in Wisconsin until William is 16, but they need to make more money, so he and his stepfather moved to Boulder.

So they must have got along a little bit, right?

And

they go mine for gold in what would be known as the Colorado Gold Rush.

So congratulations, you guys did amazing during that period of time.

Incredible.

So much gold.

Yeah.

William and Alonzo aren't very good miners, though.

You don't hear these stories that often.

Shitty mining stories.

Shitty miners.

But they're smart, though.

Instead, they leave Boulder, they build a cabin near where St.

Vrain is.

St.

Vrain Creek and Left Hand Creek cross in an area that soon becomes Longmount, Colorado.

Can I just say that when you said they were bad miners, then I immediately pictured two people with super long, skinny skinny arms.

They just can't get that pickaxe going at all.

Oh, the pickaxe.

I was thinking of the sieve, you know.

Oh, they can't.

Yeah, they can't

sift for gold?

Sieve?

Sift?

Yeah.

No.

Pan.

Pan.

Fucking pan, ladies and gentlemen.

Fucking pan.

We got it.

We still got it.

We are miners.

Okay, so this is what they do.

They build a farm together, and as more and more people start moving into the area, because those are the people who made the long-lasting money, the ones who took advantage of the gold rush people by opening businesses to sell them shit.

Yeah.

Right?

It's called,

what's it called?

Capitalism?

Thank you.

You're welcome.

I was absolutely going to say communism.

Thank you for that.

Okay, so they,

what did they do?

The farming business grows.

In 1863, William...

Is this a dress rehearsal?

I swear to God, I've been studying this because I've been so nervous.

I can't, literally, I can't hold a thought in my mind.

I'm just like, we're doing it.

It's happening.

This isn't a dress rehearsal.

It's so surreal.

Oh, my God.

I have notes.

And I'm still warm.

Okay, sorry.

Sorry.

No, you're good.

No, you're right.

You're totally right to question me.

Okay, so then the mom and their kids all show up.

And because his family home is situated along a prominent stagecoach route connecting Wyoming to Denver, the Cherokee Trail.

I don't know why I'm pointing at you.

I'm pointing at you.

Thank you.

Mary and Alonso set up a tavern and an inn, and that does really well.

This family was also,

they become like fixtures in their community after having been struggling before.

And at age 26, oh, I have a photo of him.

He serves in the Colorado Calvary and he gets out.

And here is a photo of William Dickens.

What, what, what, what?

Oh, okay.

All right, then.

Right?

This is from the Longmont Museum.

I know.

Thank you.

This is on loan from the Longmont Museum.

We got to get it back to them by midnight.

It's like, at first you're like, what?

And then you're like, I don't know.

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

You see this guy in a tavern in Longmont?

Yeah.

Longmont.

Longer days.

I'm like, hello, sir.

There can't be a lot of eligible bachelors back then in general, right?

No, I doubt it.

Also, doesn't it look like he made that three-piece suit out of a cow 25 minutes before he took this picture?

I mean, you can almost see the hair on that.

Yeah, they didn't have lint rollers back then.

Oh, you mean the cow hair?

I get it.

That's funny.

Not cat hair.

Nope.

Cow hair.

Well, we never know.

Oh.

You don't ever know.

Okay.

You don't ever know.

You don't ever know.

And I refuse to accept it.

Okay, so

he takes the family profits and builds this place called Independence Hall, which is a community center and drugstore.

So they just get rich selling people shit.

Do you think it's still there?

I don't, is it?

For real?

Do they sell ice cream?

Do not lie about Independence Hall right now.

Tavern.

The tavern's still there.

Fuck.

Party after.

After party is what I meant to say.

We'll just drive three and a half hours to Longmont and get fucked up.

That's

So I don't know what you're yelling and I don't care.

Yeah, no.

We literally can't make

each other.

Of course we can't.

When you yell even in like a good spirit, like in a happy way, it makes us think you're mad and it scares.

Okay?

We're very, very damaged people.

You should know that.

Yeah, Jesus.

69, within the next four years, he acquires a 120-acre plot of land he uses to expand the farm, cattle, like that cow outfit.

And so now he's making an honest living and he's ready to settle down.

He marries the woman from the beginning of the story, Ida Kitely.

Oh, here's a picture of her.

Yeah, did pretty good, right?

Yes, she looks like

many of the TikTokers I watch.

What?

She's about to teach me how to use setting spray correctly.

Come on, she sure is.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

Do you think they, I mean, they made people pose all serious like that for pictures, right?

Because you can't, you have to sit there for three minutes, and so smiling for three minutes is kind of hard.

But what if, like, deep down, she was like, yes, let's go get pictures of her.

I know.

I always think that.

She's the party girl of Longmont.

She might be so fun.

No one will ever know.

That's so sad.

Anyway.

Sorry for her.

So they have five children.

They really liked each other.

And it was it was cold that winter.

And he adds more and more business ventures to his plate.

In 1881, he builds the Dickens Opera House on Main Street.

I don't want to keep referring to pictures.

You know it?

There is a picture of it, though.

Whoa.

Bacchia, does it still look like that?

There's still a bunch of Teslas everywhere.

So many potential opera houses that we could be looking at right now.

I mean, pick one, you know?

There,

I think it's that one.

No.

On the right, there's a bunch of people.

Do not do Hot Dog's job.

Because

they're not having it.

Is it the one on the right?

Once again, Hot Dog throws up her hand.

It's gorgeous.

It's cute.

Yeah.

Right?

I'm sure there's just meter after meter, parking meter.

You know, that's just.

It's the horse having to put the coins in with their big teeth, though.

Aww.

That's cute.

So they have kids.

Then in 1891, he finds the farmer.

He founds, founds, not finds, it's not a thing.

You got it.

The Farmers National Bank, and soon after, he co-founds the milling and elevator company.

What?

How did those go together?

What range this man has?

Money.

Elevators.

Milling.

Booze.

What's milling?

Oh, making stuff.

Okay.

Oh.

Someone yellow hookers from the back?

Sugar.

Thank you.

Sugar?

Sorry.

That was me.

Then that was on me.

Oh, hey, guess what?

It says the only flour mill large enough to complete.

Just give me your words away.

I have read this before.

I swear to God.

I'm fucking sweating.

I was having a thing backstage where it felt like my eyes weren't taking in information anymore.

Like they were sitting on things, but like I didn't know what it meant.

I was like, this is an interesting way to be.

Yeah.

Yeah.

that's anxiety is it I think so

and anyways he maintains his wealth and social status as a successful businessman and philanthropist into his early 70s watching his children grow into adults he enjoys his retirement with his wife Ida until of course the night of November 30th 1914

Yep, they're on board now.

Yeah, they love it.

And he gets shot, as I said.

Back at the crime scene, investigators find that bullet was shot with what would have come to be a fairly, what would have been a very distinctive, high-powered rifle, which you know all about.

Yes, ask me anything.

On Reddit.

Because he's such a prominent figure in the long monk community, the press picks up the story of his murder.

It seems that he had done so much good while he was alive that it was hard for people to believe that he had an enemy capable of killing him, but you can make a lot of enemies.

He's the banker.

Right.

Don't people hate banker?

Huge banking area group.

Oh, shit.

What the fuck?

Karen.

We've been listening to you slash damn.

She just starts reading it to herself.

Anyway.

Oh, my.

Oh, my God.

Just tell about the good part.

Okay.

Okay, so the sheriff Sanford Buster comes up with some theories.

First, they set their sights on a man named M.

Swallow.

Spell it.

Swallow.

Well.

Do you need me to spell that for you?

No.

You don't usually work blue, but I know.

M as in just the letter?

Yeah, I think that Allie was like, oh, sometimes old-timey newspapers just refer to men by their first initial.

So we're going up, we're going with M because we couldn't find any other name.

Let's call him

what?

Maurice.

Maurice

Swallow.

People, are you guessing or do you actually know?

Is he your uncle, your great uncle?

All these citizens that are just like, please get our history correct.

And he

had an argument with him, but he's cleared.

And then, so he has no enemies, and so Sheriff Buster and his team consider the possibility of someone maybe who wants revenge on him.

Because it turns out he wasn't the best.

I guess when he served in the Colorado 3rd Cavalry back in the 1860s, he participated in the Sand Creek Massacre.

Yep.

You did that one, didn't you?

That was awful.

So you covered that one, right?

Did I?

How would I fucking know?

I don't listen to this show.

That was me doing an impression of my sister.

It was great.

So they were thinking that maybe people were like going to plot revenge against him, but it had been so long.

And then,

let's see, I'm going to skip that, that, that, and that.

Just read it.

People like it.

They do?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're fine.

Okay.

Thanks for watching.

This is really interesting.

We're not the opening act and they want us out of here.

Okay.

You got this.

Okay, thank you.

Thanks, thanks.

Thank you.

But in 1870, a full 44 years before the murder, murder, there was one other event that sucked that could point to someone who would want revenge against William Dickens.

That year, a man named Billy Dubois, hmm, French.

Killed an innocent man, and a posse of vigilantes, which included William Dickens, went after Billy Dubois.

And they tried to arrest him, but it led to a shootout.

Billy goes down in the fight, and he swears to William that one day he will have his revenge.

Right?

Always a bad thing.

I'd suspect that guy for sure.

Right.

However, oh no, he's dead.

Oh.

Okay.

He won't have his revenge, but maybe his brother will.

Oh.

You know how brothers are.

I actually don't.

No, you don't.

They fucking suck.

Oh, they're real dicks.

They steal your shit and hide it from you.

It's annoying.

But it had been so long and this brother is like working as the clerk of a,

let's see, Laramere County.

And does that you guys?

He's got no criminal record.

It sounds like he's just like let his brother's memory, you know, live on in a positive way instead of seeking revenge.

Right.

So he's out.

Okay.

And then

sorry really quick.

It's Larimer County.

Oh shit, thank you.

What is it?

They actually in a very organized way, yelled that back at us.

I wasn't listening to that.

I didn't want to deny it because it was great.

I appreciate it.

No, you're totally right.

I see it here now.

Clear as day.

Yeah, yeah, that was what I was meant to say.

So, okay, so he's out.

He's out.

Investigators find themselves back at square one,

but they get a new lead when a clerk at a store out of Denver, it's you guys,

reports.

No one claws from Denver.

You're like,

I'm not really from here.

Streetlights here are real rough.

Aren't they?

Like, you stop at every streetlight, every red light.

My God, stop it.

You mean the streetlights work here?

They make you stop, and then they ask you to go.

It's ridiculous here.

Okay.

Sorry, I was mean about the streetlights.

I didn't mean to end up meaning.

So no,

you were correct.

So someone in Denver reports the purchase of a high-powered rifle and silencer just one month before the murder.

They can trace these things back then, and they care.

And it's the same type of gun that was used in the shooting, which was a rare gun.

And the person who purchased this weapon is none other than William's own son, Rienzi Dickens.

You're surprised?

That surprises you?

Heartbreaking.

34 years old.

I mean...

Spoiled.

Yeah.

Nepo baby.

Nepo tavern baby?

You know how they are.

The worst kind.

Filled with pretzels and ego.

So he's arrested on December 3rd, 1914, just minutes after his father's funeral, which had to be a fucking scene, right?

Like, that's kind of fucked up.

Those cops were like, that's revenge from cops.

Totally.

Like, you better be sure you got the guy if you're going to like storm a funeral.

Yeah, right?

One would hope.

When Sheriff Buster asks if he ever purchased the gun and silencer, Rienzi swears he didn't, but then the authorities search his home and find the rifle and silencer.

Where'd he put that?

Where'd he put it?

I don't know.

Well, it's dismantled into several pieces and hidden throughout his own home.

Yeah.

Which I bet houses back then didn't have a lot of hiding places, you know?

It's not like today.

There's one big vase that you just had to put everything in there.

Right.

Yeah.

Police also dig through a pile of ash

in the alley behind his house looking for evidence because because one witness claimed to have seen him frantically digging there the morning of his father's funeral,

which is a weird, like maybe that's his religious, no.

Try a second one.

I don't want to.

I wasn't picked to begin with.

Okay, thank you.

But thank you for the opportunity.

In the ash, they find the cartridge that held the bullet that killed William.

Like the bullet, not the same one.

So he is like, all right, you got me.

I did buy the gun, but I insist that he was just shooting at a fence post for fun.

Sure, toward his father's library.

Right.

Yeah.

The fence post with the library behind it.

For fun.

Right.

So fun.

And so he has an alibi, though.

He was home on the night of the murder with his kids, but his wife was out in the movies, so there's no witnesses to actually place him there that night.

There were movies back then?

A picture.

I don't know.

That's a great fucking question.

What fucking movie was it?

There were pictures.

It wasn't a talkie.

Kramer versus Kramer.

Definitely.

It was just that train coming at him over and over.

She was there forever, screaming.

Screaming their heads off.

So his alibi isn't good enough to prove, and police discover a potential motive, of course, because it's guess what it is.

Right, money.

Money, money, money.

Right.

What were you going to guess?

My mind was completely blank.

Literally, your finger went like that, and I was like, uh-oh, I'm supposed to say something right now.

I know.

I hate when you do that, so I don't know why I just did that to you.

I'm sorry.

Well, I'll get my revenge during my story.

Fuck.

Okay.

What would you do?

This.

Oh,

so it turns out he's got a lot of debt.

Records indicate that Renzi owes somewhere between $35,000 to $40,000 in debt.

Guess how much that is today?

Okay, we're talking 19, 14.

Yeah.

35 to 40.

God, I'm bad at this.

I have to admit, after nine and a half years of doing this podcast, I'm so bad at this.

I got it right once.

Let me just try it out.

Okay.

Don't help me.

It's $350,000.

I really wanted you to get this.

Because everyone would have...

You're right, a million dollars.

All right.

Yay!

And that's an example of what it feels like to be a nippo baby.

Okay.

You have another chance because his father's worth, estimated net worth, is about $300,000, which in today's money...

$20 million.

$9.5 million.

Sorry.

It's okay.

I've never been a math person, that's for sure.

Me neither.

That's why we have a podcast.

Podcast.

Yay!

So he was going to, of course, inherit some of that, of course, and so, but he's like, but I swear to God, God, I didn't kill my dad.

Probably.

His mom and siblings, they all have his back.

They don't think he did it.

And later the same month,

later in the same month of his arrest, and oh my god, we haven't done this in so long, December 1914.

You have to remember and flect up.

Right.

And come up.

He's arraigned, pleads not guilty.

He's released on $37,000 bond, which I don't know how much it is.

$800,000.

Yes, yes.

So they hire a whole team of private investigators to track down the real killer and get him, you know, out of here.

And they find one suspect worth considering.

It's a rancher named John Ensley.

Everyone's related to these people, I bet.

Yeah,

every single one of these people, yeah.

Oh, I have a cousin I don't know in the audience.

I just remembered.

That's what he said.

I don't know.

And you don't know your own cousin?

He's like second cousin.

Yeah.

So kind of a stranger?

Yeah.

What do you think he thinks of you right now?

I don't know, but his wife likes me, so that's cool.

I think he's a dragwong, and I appreciate you, Stephen.

Okay, he used to work for William, but people close to him says he always resented William.

He was spotted drinking at a Longmont bar on the night of William's murder, and a bottle of this liquor that he drinks was found nearby outside of the Dickens home.

So that's not great.

Shouldn't have left that behind.

Right, right.

But he was probably drunk off it.

It's enough for the police to question Ensley, but he tells them something interesting that unravels the private detective's story.

According to Ensley, most of the group of private investigators, they all got him shit-faced, basically.

And one of them, yeah, pretended to be a priest who tried to trick him into confessing.

So

a whole scam.

What do you think?

Yay or nay.

So it's like...

1914 cops, so they're probably literally beating the shit out of him.

And then they're like, okay, well, we'll give you a moment to bleed and walk outside.

And then one of them, like, turns their shirt around and is like, Okay, I'm also gonna beat you up, but

you'll tell me, right?

That's but I love God, so you tell me.

Peace up to the big one.

Yep.

And then the whole thing just was a big setup to try and frame him.

And so, with no hard evidence against

Ensley police, believe him and go back to the sun.

So

his trial for the murder of his father begins April 24th, 1915, and Judge Neil F.

Graham, your favorite, presides over the case.

And

they come in hot and drop a bombshell.

He claims he's received a confession letter in the mail from the actual killer.

Oh.

You want me to read it to you?

He reads it in court.

Please do, and please do it in a classic Colorado accent.

Yes.

Okay.

Dear sir, please don't let them convict Randy Dickens.

Do I have it?

To get on, I think, yeah.

Please don't let them convict him.

I am the murderer.

I'd kill any man who would do me the way old blank blank did.

I shot him in the window with a rifle, which afterward, it's just like admitting to it in such a ridiculous way.

Read the letter, read the letter.

I shot him through the window with a rifle, which I afterward buried in Loveland.

For God's sake, don't let them convict an innocent man.

Someday, they will be sorry.

I did it because he had it coming.

Signed X.

So

it's convenient.

Real bullshitting.

Yeah.

It's the, for God's sake that pushed it over the edge.

Right.

Oh, please, oh please.

Easy.

I'm fine killing a dude, but I don't want anyone to go to prison for it.

You know what I mean?

Like, yeah, I don't know about that.

The district attorney is like

bullshit, calls bullshit.

And so after about a month of going back and forth in court, Judge Graham sends the jury off to deliberate and he gives them an option to either find Rienzi guilty of first-degree murder or guilty of second-degree murder or not guilty, and they find him guilty of second-degree murder.

His wife faints in the courtroom when she finds out, which is dramatic.

Very old-fashioned.

Yeah.

They fainted a lot back then.

They loved fucking feigning back then.

They had like couches, literal couches for it.

I hear it was the corsets, but that's right.

That might just be a rumor.

He gets a retrial, and he gets out on $40,000 bail.

$237,000.

Yes.

Man, you're fucking killing it.

Pretty much every single one is right.

And it looks like his mother pays the bill, you know, as...

And then

in the course of the next trial, they find a weapon specialist who's like, maybe it wasn't the gun, the murder weapon that was hidden all over his house.

Maybe it wasn't could it not have been maybe so there's so many things in this world right yeah one of them could be this and so

so he can

okay so no here we go just read the letter again

Okay, their application for brief trial is denied and he's given a sentence of 18 to 27 years imprisonment for the murder of his father.

But he continues to appeal his guilty verdict.

And in October of 1919, the Colorado Supreme Court orders a new trial on the grounds that the second degree premeditated murder charge was invalid because whoever did it was like premeditated it you guys know how true crime works

so only the only valid verdict would have been first degree or not guilty so technicality you're out which is you know there for people who aren't guilty.

You know?

I mean.

He's released from prison while he awaits a second trial, and he relocates to Long Beach, California for some reason.

I don't know.

We went to the Rocky Stadium for the game last night.

It was

so, I should have talked about that at the time

as like an anecdotal thing to warm everybody up and win people over.

But I forgot.

It was so gorgeous and cool, and the Giants won, so I was excited.

It was cool.

Sorry, don't be mad.

Just don't, let's not turn it into a sports thing like you always have to.

Just like, let us do our show.

She has one team.

That's it.

That she wants to win.

Let her have it.

Let her have it.

And in October 1921, he returns to Colorado for a second trial, a couple weeks, focuses on that.

Was the gun and the bullet the same?

And they paid a lot of people a lot of money to say maybe it wasn't.

There's so many things in this world.

There's so many things in this world, yeah.

And in the end,

about two weeks of, after two weeks of trial, he's found not guilty this time.

So So after receiving his not guilty verdict in 1921, he heads, wait, there's been other photos and I forgot them.

Let's just take a look.

That's yeah.

So that's him right, that's right before he dies.

Probably.

William Dickens.

No, probably.

He looks kind of young.

That's just the same picture with a fake goatee.

He's wearing a fake beard and he finally got that lint roller he was dreaming of.

Oh, and then I think there's a photo of his house for some reason.

If you feel like taking a look at

Third Avenue, the place to be in Longmont.

Oh my god, you guys know it?

Do you love it?

I used to go trick-or-treating there as a child.

Okay, and I think that's it.

So, yeah, that's the one that's

looking over there.

So look away.

Stop it.

And so he lives in Long Beach the rest of his life, passes away in 1961.

And what if, okay, here is my, so they never really caught, it's a cold case because they never actually caught the murderer, even though everyone thinks that they did, it was the son.

Yeah.

What if he had an insurance policy taken out on himself?

Hear me out.

It's in a book that I won't spoil for you.

Okay.

But he has himself killed.

Yeah.

It's a terrible.

Why would he have himself killed?

Because then his wife can get the insurance money.

So do you think he had suicidal ideation?

He was like, let's get five other people in on this plan and make some cash?

Wasn't he already rich?

Yeah.

Shit.

But you know what?

That's what greed is like.

You know what I mean?

It's never enough.

It's never enough.

Tell it to the hot dog.

That's why I'm a podcaster and not a detective, among other things.

Like I didn't go to college.

Look, we're doing our best.

As for his murder, the case technically remains cold, though most people believe Ramsey was guilty, but he was able to cast enough doubt with enough money to win his freedom, and he maintained his innocence to the end, leaving the truth about his father's death a mystery.

And that is the story of the murder of William Dickens.

You're done!

You did it!

It was great!

I know!

Thank you.

It happened.

Yeah.

Oh, thank you.

Got it done.

Thank you, thank you.

We all thank you.

The people of Longmont, thank you.

Right?

The Longmont Museum,

now our business partner.

That's right.

It's an incredible opportunity.

Not all group chats are the same, just like not all Adams are the same.

Adam Brody, for example, uses WhatsApp to plan his grandma's birthday using video calls, polls to choose a gift, and HD photos to document a family moment to remember.

All in one group chat.

Makes grandma's birthday her best one yet.

But Adam Scott group messages with an app that isn't WhatsApp.

And so the photo invite came through so blurry, he never even knew about the party.

And grandma still won't talk to me.

It's time for WhatsApp.

Message privately with everyone.

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Okay, are you ready for my story?

I'm going to tell one now.

You guys know that we don't know ever know each other's stories, which we were talking about how annoying that must be for everyone who has to work on the show because we have to like take separate separate calls.

I don't know what she's going to do.

Yeah, yep.

Well, so I'll tell you right now.

I wish you would.

All these people in the audience are like, we've been listening to this bullshit for nine years.

We know you don't know.

But it's fun.

It's fun to talk about.

Guys, tonight I'm going to tell you.

a story that takes place in one of your beautiful, charming little scenic towns in the Rockies here in Colorado.

It's one of those towns that has great hiking, skiing, fishing, and what one website describes as, quote, strong Old West vibes.

I love those things.

Right?

Everyone's got kind of a weird janky hat on.

The town has around 2,000 people.

It's a tight-knit community.

It's been described as sleepy, cozy, and laid-back.

Me too.

Right?

That's you all over.

You're so tight-knit.

But all of that changed on the afternoon of June 4th, 2004, when a man came roaring down the streets of this quiet little town in a customized bulldozer

with the intent of leveling everything in his path.

The man's name was Marv Heemeier and the town was called Granby.

This is the story of the killdozer.

Good job.

Yeah.

Wow.

I'm pretty sure Marin found this one and I was like, you have done me a great service, Chief.

Truly, truly.

This story is fucking nuts.

Oh.

This is a great you story, too.

Like, I feel like this one was made for you.

It's really, there's a lot of heroes and anti-heroes in this story.

And then there's one big ass bulldozer, and that's all I need, really.

I'm like a three-year-old boy in that way.

I just want to look at big bulldozers.

Bulldozers and sinkholes.

Sinkholes and bulldozers.

Fire truck.

You know.

Okay.

Did you say your source was for yours?

Yes.

Okay, great.

I wasn't listening.

You even commented on it.

Did I?

Yeah, you did.

Was that tonight?

Yeah, yeah.

So the main sources that Marin used for this story today are the book Kill Dozer, The True Story of the Colorado Bulldozer Rampage by author Patrick Brower

and a 2020 documentary called Tread.

Okay,

so we'll just talk about Marv first and

so you learn a little background.

Marv Heemeyer is born in 1951 in South Dakota.

Are you fucking serious?

Are you serious?

Did you drive?

Wow, they drove.

How long is the road trip?

11-7.

Someone goes in a bulldozer.

Classic.

That's good.

It's like the straight story, but with a bulldozer from South Dakota.

How long does it take to get here driving?

Six hours.

Thank you very much.

Yeah.

All the rest of the shit you're saying we can't hear and we'll talk about it later.

Yeah.

South Dakota.

I know.

I feel like I've never met a person from South Dakota.

No, you haven't.

This is...

What's one of your names?

Carrie?

Veneris?

Mary!

Mary!

Mary!

Mary.

Mary?

Mary Smith?

Nice to meet you, Mary.

Now I've seen someone from South Dakota.

Yeah.

Okay.

But Marv's family comes to Colorado in the mid- no, sorry, Marv himself comes to Colorado in the mid-1970s.

He's stationed at the now-defunct Lowry Air Force Base right here in Denver.

Thank you for your service.

And then when Marv leaves the Air Force, he stays in Denver to pursue his newest passion.

Just give a guess.

Okay.

Is this you pointing at me to guess?

A little bit.

Bulldozers?

No?

Race car driving.

Snowmobiling.

Damn it.

I just think that's kind of close, though.

I saw it's like a vehicle.

And it's also one of those vehicles with the cheney things, not actual wheels.

So I'm going to take that as a win.

I think it's a huge win.

I need it.

Also, I just think it's funny when I was looking at this where it's like the words passion and snowmobiling are quite a combination.

Yeah.

So snowmobiling becomes a huge part of his life.

He takes weekly trips out to rugged areas with his friends so they can ride their snowmobiles and hoot and holler and whatnot.

They snowmobile so hard together that eventually Marv decides to go into an auto repair business with one of those friends, friends, a man named John Kleiner.

So they open up a shop in Boulder, and Marv becomes known as a virtuoso when it comes to welding and repairing mufflers.

Kind of hot.

The Mozart of mufflers.

Did you say kind of hot?

I don't know why.

Welding to me is just like one of those

tough person things.

Yeah, let's show them.

Can we see?

Yeah.

Hey.

If you saw that while you were scrolling whatever of the apps, what would you do?

Push left, what's the thing you do?

I don't know.

The answer is yes.

Does his hat say silver bullet?

Oh.

Does it?

Shit.

Yeah.

Hell yeah.

He got that for free.

Or with like points from the tabs.

He sent away for that.

So

one of Marv's friends will later tell the AP that, quote, he could change a muffler by himself in 20 minutes.

No wasted motion.

He knew what he was doing.

All right.

It'd be nice to have friends that talked about you like that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

True appreciation of your skill.

Especially of mufflers.

She's great.

Karen's great at mufflers.

She's so good at mufflers.

No wasted motion.

It's the thing I'm sick of when I go get my car fixed and they're like,

it's like, come on.

20-minute oil change, for fuck's sake.

So at some point, Marv and John,

they split off and do their own things.

Marv opens a different shop on his own, and that does very well.

He's also made a bunch of money investing in real estate, so he's doing good.

And then in the early 90s, he moves to Grand Lake, Colorado.

It's just this huge lake.

I don't know, Grand.

And he does it for the snowmobiling.

That's right.

And then this is when he hears that his old friend and business partner, John, is thinking of expanding his business toward the Rocky Mountains.

And that news gets Marv's wheels turning because he had recently come across a vacant two-acre lot in Granby near his current home in Grand Lake.

That lot was previously owned by a concrete business that changed hands before that business failed and went bust.

Sometimes Maren uses these phrases like she'll be like, and everything went bust.

And I'm like, I don't really talk like that, but I guess

I missed that one.

So that piece of property has been bank-owned for three years, and when Marv sees it, he sees it as the perfect place for an auto-repair shop.

It's got a two-bay garage, it has lots of storage space,

beautiful lighting,

a great room in the front,

an office, and it's perfectly located at the intersection of two highways.

So, that's where

you break down.

There you go.

So, right over here.

The best thing about it, though, is the price.

The property is appraised at around $100,000, but the starting bid is $20,000.

It's cheap, right?

Yeah.

Marv's like, I'm going to go to that auction.

I'm going to kick some ass.

Do you want to guess how much?

$20,000.

70s?

No, no.

So 92.

94.

That's the last.

92.

Okay.

The last thing I heard was 70s.

Okay.

20,000 in the 90s.

Today would be 85,000.

46,000.

5,000.

That doesn't sound like enough.

Shit.

Okay.

Reporter Patrick Brower says, quote, Marv hoped he could buy it for a song, lease it, or sell it back to Kleiner on favorable terms and add to his already fairly comfortable income stream.

So the two men work out a deal where Marv agrees to buy the two-acre Granby lot and finance it back to John for $66,000.

That's still well below the appraised value, making it worthwhile to John, but a big payday for Marv, as long as he can buy it close to that starting price.

So it's 1992, Marv shows up at a real estate auction ready to get that property, but right as the bidding begins, he realizes that someone else wants that property too, and it's the former mayor of Gramby a man named Gus Harris

so mayor Harris also has a friend with him it's the former property owner of the concrete business that used to be there

they

right you know what I'm about to deal with so this man's named Cody Dochev and Cody sold his concrete business, someone else bought it, and then that person went out of business, and then the bank owned it.

So Cody actually made money off of that.

So, he's there with the mayor, and author Patrick Brower describes Cody in his book as, quote, higher energy, high energy, as a quote, high-energy spark plug of a man.

See, when you're here at the live show, you can hear all the edits that we can't make.

That's right, the blabbing and the tita.

Yeah, yeah,

it's hard to, it's hard to, yeah, that's right.

So, um,

he's basically, Cody's there to egg on the old mayor and to get, you know, get him bidding and have some fun.

So the auction begins.

It's immediately intense.

The bidding, of course, goes back and forth between Mayor Gus, then Marv, and then Gus raises, and then Marv raises, and it goes back and forth until finally Marv wins the auction with a bid of $42,000, which is about how much in today's money?

$68,000.

$95,000.

Fuck, damn.

Yeah.

Should we stop doing this?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Maybe that's an old fucking trope that we should put away.

Just shelve it and never again guess money.

Maybe this tour is the last money guessing tour and then we fucking end it.

We were trying to think of a title for this tour and now we finally stumbled upon the best title ever.

So once that auction's over, Marv claims that Cody came over to him and starts to chew him out.

He will later describe Cody as, quote, the rudest and most arrogant person.

I mean, this guy is just a fucking asshole.

Oh.

Marv, language.

Love it.

Marv also claims that he immediately offered to sell the lot that he just bought to Cody,

even though Mayor Gus is the one that was bidding on it, for $66,000, which was the same price that he offered to finance it for his friend John.

Cody and a handful of other people who were at the auction that day flatly deny that that exchange ever took place.

But the problem is now in this very small town of Granby, Marv Heemeier is rubbing some locals the wrong way.

And as we all know, the people like people of us that come from the country, that's a problem.

You don't want to do that.

But Marv's problems are about to get worse because not long after purchasing this property, a man named Bud Wilson from the Granby Water and Sanitation Department comes out and informs Marv that this property is not connected to the city sectic system.

Yeah, what does that mean?

That means when you flush the toilet, it just kind of goes out.

All right.

Actually in the country you've been called a

wait, it's a...

A leech field, right, where it just, it's like...

Well, it just goes out into a big empty field.

Oh no.

Okay, so listen, let's not talk about shit anymore.

Because that's not the worst part.

The worst part is it turns out that the main line hookup

for him to get connected to the city septic system is 100 feet away off of his property.

And so it's on somebody else's property.

And if that's not bad enough, the owner of that land is none other than former mayor Gus Harris.

Oh, man.

His auction enemy.

This is like a Looney Tunes cartoon.

It is a, it's getting, it's a a little Cohen brothersy, this story.

So after the way things shook out at the auction, it is easy to assume that Gus probably wouldn't be the hugest fan of Marv,

might even be a little resentful of Marv's obnoxious behavior.

Plus, as anyone who grew up in the country knows, the installation and upkeep for a new sewer system is pricey.

And that's when Marv learns it's going to cost him upwards of $80,000 to install this.

And that's, of course, twice what he just paid for the land itself.

So the project is automatically way over budget from what he and John Kleiner originally agreed to be working on.

So suddenly Marv's investment property is morphing into a serious money pit.

And he tries to do some damage control.

He shows up at the next Granby town hall meeting

and he thinks he can somehow push or reroute the negotiations away from Gus and to the city of Granby itself.

And

he basically wants them to handle the negotiations and the subsequent installation costs.

And Marv actually tells the city board, quote, you've got to hook me up.

Get that on a shirt.

Yeah.

And then there's just a bunch of shit underneath.

Karen's going blue.

Is that blue?

No.

No, it's just gross.

Yeah.

I guess it's brown, if anything.

So

the Granby Town Board tells Marv that the city will not be holding his hand through this process and that Marv needs to get his property hooked up to the city sewer system, which means he has to work things out with Gus Harris.

And as you might guess, Marv does not like this answer.

And he tells the board members in what some might say is a condescending tone that, quote, you can't expect to grow if this is your policy.

It's extortion by the government fiat.

I don't need you.

You need me.

Uh-oh.

Yeah.

That's foreshadowing.

Then he tries to drop the mic, but it's one of those ones that connect it to the podium, so he's just like pushing it down.

And then he storms out, yes, queen, go.

Right?

Men are so dramatic.

I love

the stance of

you're asking me to be reasonable.

How can you grow if that's your policy?

Maybe they don't want to grow.

Yeah.

You know?

Maybe that's Granby.

So the whole thing is taking place in a town hall meeting on the record in front of a bunch of people.

It's not a good look for the new guy who basically just screwed up and is now begging the town for help.

Marvel then informed town officials in the interim that he will be putting in a new septic tank.

So Granby's fine with that.

What he doesn't tell them is what he's doing is he found an old cement mixer on the property and he's just going to bury that and use that as the septic tank.

The cement mixer?

Uh-huh.

I guess I don't really know how septic tanks work.

It's just a big

suburbs.

It's like a waiting room for your shit.

Okay, it's more complicated than that, but

we don't need to talk about it.

And then Marin wrote, and if you think that sounds like a bad idea, that's because it is a bad idea.

So,

Bud Wilson from the water and sanitation department warns Marv he can't rely on a septic tank forever.

He will need to figure out how to hook up to the city sewer line at some point.

But before Marv,

this is my writing, but before Marv can expel the cortisol from his system and work amicably with his neighbor,

his business buddy snowmobile sister, John Kleiner, unexpectedly finds himself involved in an EPA audit over some old oil spills.

That doesn't sound good.

Don't worry about it.

It's not a big deal.

It's just personal oil spills that the EPA has to get involved with.

It's personal, okay.

So, when you know it, John now begins backpedaling to get out of the Gramby plan that he was going to do with Marv.

So, Marv decides that he's just going to do it himself.

He's going to set up his new muffler shop.

But remember, he planned to lease and finance that property to and with John.

It's not happening.

So Marv has to go it alone.

He opens Mountain View Mufflers.

Everybody loves it.

Totally.

And he services just about everybody in town, and he actually does really well.

So things start looking up.

And even better, because he does such great work at the muffler shop, he basically starts doing damage control with the locals.

He even makes some friends.

People are like, oh, this guy's really good.

And they get to know him as a person.

And he doesn't waste a movement or whatever it was.

That's right.

No wasted movement.

They're like, look at the clean lines of this guy and his muffler work.

Look at him go.

He's like a ballerina with the muffler.

Locals think that Marv is nice.

He's friendly.

He's making friends.

Things are starting to go smoothly.

And Marv is really happy about his transplant to this mountain community.

And then he's making good money.

And what is he doing with that money?

Snowmobile.

That's right.

I knew it this time.

It's the dream life.

He's driving.

But

there is one problem for Marvin.

It's Bud Wilson, the Gran B water and sanitation guy, who keeps on calling and reminding him he's got to connect to the city sewer line.

Yeah, how's he?

Okay, yeah.

Well, it's that kind of thing where like, you know how some of us get very good at pushing off other people to not do the thing that they just don't feel like doing?

Well, he does this for five years.

Okay.

Epic procrastination.

Just masterful.

No wasted movement in that.

So now it's 1997.

Marv's in his mid-40s.

He has been running this muffler business for five years.

And that is when the Dochev family approaches him asking if they can buy the property.

So this is Cody Dochev's family.

They owned the concrete plant before.

And

Cody was was the spark plug of a man.

And the family basically wants to start the concrete plant on that property again.

But Marv doesn't like Cody.

God, he doesn't like a lot of people.

He's, I think he's sensitive,

maybe a little emotional, like he's, you know.

Yeah, sometimes you got to look at yourself, though, if you're like not getting along with a lot of people.

That's very true, you know?

You're saying that to me, saying that to you.

Surprisingly, Marv says he is not opposed to selling to the Dochevs.

In fact, he gets the lot appraised and he lets them know the property is now worth $270,000.

But when the Dochefs agree to that price, Marv ups the price to $375,000

and then more

before claiming that actually the land is worth a million dollars.

Dude,

calm down.

So he kind of does a bait and switch of like, sure, friend, I'll negotiate with you.

And then not really.

So this forces the Dochefs basically to just walk away from this deal.

But what they do, because they're also petty bitches, is they buy the land next door to Marv.

Or maybe they just had to.

You know what I mean?

Maybe that was just, you can't put a concrete plant just anywhere.

Sure.

It was just like,

they didn't have a ton of choices.

Yeah, yeah.

So when Marv finds that out, he tries to buy that property out from under them before they can finalize the deal.

But it's too late, ink is dry, he can't do it.

And this is when Marv goes on an all-out crusade to fight that forthcoming concrete plant being put in next door to him.

This guy is exhausting.

It's tucked, dude.

Take a nap and go ride your fucking snowmobile.

My thing is for real, right?

It's like you can't only snowmobile your way out of your emotions.

You have to pit, you have to go to therapy.

You have to fucking go to therapy.

I'm sorry.

Yeah, you can say snowmobile.

I mean, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What are you saying?

Nothing.

Okay.

So,

what is that bug?

It's a moth, I'm telling you, it's a ghost from 1914.

It's a big moth.

If it lands on my shoulder, I'm leaving.

Dude.

Okay, so Marv frames this concrete plant as a toxic, harmful project.

He says he's worried that the dust and the environmental issues will bring all kinds of problems to his property.

He cites all sort of zoning violations and issues.

To be fair, Marv is not the only person in Granby who feels this way about this concrete plant, but for Marv, it's personal.

He starts going door to door in Granby.

Yikes.

And he also runs countless ads in the local newspaper.

Sky High News.

Anyone heard of it?

I love it.

Of course not, they say.

We're not from Granby.

But basically, he's doing everything he can to kind of lobby against this plant.

He also lawyers up.

He files a lawsuit in hopes of halting construction.

So now the Sky High News starts covering this battle because it's so public.

Marr's not pleased with the angle they take on the situation, though, because they position both him and his attorney as outsiders.

I'm considered an outsider in Petaluma.

Really?

Because I moved there when I was two.

It's how small towns are.

Got it.

And that town is a big town compared to Gramby, yeah.

If that fucking moth doesn't get out of here while I am performing.

Excuse me, excuse me.

Mom?

Okay.

They're good luck.

Man on the street interview with a moth.

How long have you lived at the Paramount Theater, moth?

Okay, this is so fucking long.

I gotta go.

All right.

Unfortunately for Marv, all his time, money, and energy fighting this cause

does not stop the concrete plant.

If anything, it causes the town of Granby to make sure everything is done exactly by the book.

So they're not breaking any rules.

And the Dochevs work with the town to iron out all those zoning issues that he was trying to cite.

And meanwhile, Marv has convinced himself that the city is conspiring against him and his business.

He might be right.

I mean,

I don't think he is.

Oh.

Okay.

Knowing what is at the end of this document.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Keep it in mind.

Yeah.

So then in 2001, which is four years, you know, into his crusade against the concrete plant,

a really bad thing happens.

We're going back to.

2001.

Yeah.

I think I know what it is.

It's not 9-11.

The concrete mixer fills up

and begins to overflow.

Ew!

Yeah.

And so, what Marv does is he doesn't solve the problem.

He just simply pumps all of that human waste into a ditch behind his property.

Nah, dude, you can't do that.

Nope.

It turns out it is against the rules.

He's like mad at the concrete people, but then he's just like dumping shit.

Exactly.

He's an environmental toxicity warrior.

And then it's like.

It's natural.

Yeah, he's only mad at concrete, not human feces everywhere.

So he immediately gets caught doing that.

He gets fined $2,500 and warned that he absolutely must get connected to the city sewer system or his business could be shut down.

And Marv calls this requirement a form, quote, a form of terrorism.

Ah, bad timing, dude.

What do you want me to have indoor plumbing to?

What is this?

Did it land on me?

Oh, it landed on me.

Is it on you?

I'm not great.

Anyone?

Is it on you?

Yeah.

What do you want from us?

Hi.

We're trying to do our first live show back after six fucking...

It's cute.

I'm happy about it.

Oh, wait.

Maybe it came from my dress.

Maybe I don't smell like mothballs.

That poor moth is like, I just want to go home.

Please let me, please let me go home.

Hot lady is wearing a fucking dress.

You steamed him out of the dress.

Oh, no.

Okay.

Oops.

He's still there.

Put your finger up wave, he flies away.

So this is when Cody Dochev calls Marv and offers to cover the cost of the sewer line installation if Marv will just stop fighting about the concrete plant.

So Marv hangs up on him.

Yes,

he is not down.

So at this point, Marv's been spending a lot of time alone, often in his hot tub, which you would think would be a positive.

I get it, yeah.

This is the one man who a hot tub is not a positive, doesn't have a positive effect on him.

It makes it worse.

He's wearing those overalls and he has a muffler and he's just like, I never wasted any emotion.

And still, here I am.

Stewing in anger and paranoia in a hot tub.

If this sounds like you, please call

the Gramby Hot Tub Hotline.

Also, I wrote in, this is just a guess, but it sounds like it might be spring, so I think he hasn't snowmobiled in a while.

He's itching.

All this is to say, Marv is in a bad place, and we know this and we know what happens next because Marv ends up recording a a very long manifesto.

Oh man, when there's a manifesto,

shit's gone south.

Right?

That's the gate through which you walk and you're like, now this goes into a terrible true crime story.

The timeline goes like this.

In April of 2002, Marv's lawsuit against the Dochevs is officially dismissed.

Back in the hot tub.

Hot tears.

Five mufflers this time.

So the concrete plant is going full steam ahead.

Three months later in July of 2002, a special delivery arrives for Marv in Gran B.

What is it?

It's an enormous Komatsu D355A bulldozer, which he reportedly got a great deal on.

Oh.

So these were designed, these are the gigantic bulldozers that were designed for oil fields and mining operations.

I didn't know there were different kinds of bulldozers.

That's great to know.

There's like a little one, like a skip loader that they use at Costco, and then there's these fucking gigantic ones that are like, we're going to dig into the center of the earth and release cryptids.

That's my personal dream.

Anyway, they're over 12 feet tall, nearly 30 feet long, and they can weigh over 100,000 pounds.

Jesus.

What else is 30 feet long?

A standard school bus, a large RV, an adult blue whale.

Good to know.

For reference.

That's according to AI, I'll say, which also recommended that to stay healthy, you should eat six small rocks a day.

So let's take everything with a grain of salt in our AI future.

This whole thing was written by AI.

So the manifesto of course is a terrible sign.

Giant earth moving equipment is not a great one either.

Then Marv starts selling everything he owns at auction.

Horrible.

His shop equipment, motorcycles, boats, his house, and worst of all, his seven beloved snowmobiles.

Very bad.

I thought you were going to say dogs, but snowmobiles isn't as bad.

So by October of that year, Marv has sold almost all of his assets.

He's closed his muffler business.

Nobody is seeing these signs, which is very upsetting.

And maybe he just alienated enough people where it's just like, oh, that guy.

He also moves all his money into his father's bank accounts without telling him or anybody else.

He also works out a temporary arrangement with the people that he sells his house and land to that he they're allowing him to lease back the muffler shop for a year

so as he explains to them so he can quote finish some work.

Fun fact

one day after closing the sale on this property the new owners connect the property to the city sewer system.

Just that easy.

My God.

24 hours.

Okay, so Marv secretly moves himself and his giant bulldozer into his muffler shop and for the next year no one knows what he is doing in there.

This is when he begins recording this manifesto in which he says of the local people of Granby, quote, they thought they could do whatever they wanted to me.

They were wrong.

And so his revenge project begins.

Marv begins modifying this gigantic bulldozer, adding steel and concrete panels up to a foot thick, attaching video cameras protected by bulletproof lenses and mounting several gun ports, basically turning this machine into a full-on weaponized tank.

Jesus.

Dude.

And then

on June 4th, 2004, Marv climbs into this gigantic armored bulldozer and lowers a steel slab weighing several tons over the hatch.

And once he does this, he has no way of getting back out.

Oh.

Let's take a look at the killdozer.

Can we?

Holy shit.

It's the death star of bulldozers.

I mean,

right?

Wow.

I mean,

yeah, I guess welding.

That's what welding.

That's what welding can give you.

That's what no wasted motion can end up looking like.

It's just so sad.

It's like that is, that took so long.

That's a person who was in so much pain and nobody, he didn't have anybody to turn to.

He just was like, fine, I'll just weld the fuck out of these feelings.

Yeah.

Horrible.

So around 2 p.m., this 90-ton machine bursts out of the muffler shop and going three to five miles an hour.

That's not as tough, you know?

Yeah.

Very, very.

Make up a different number.

It's like...

It's a slow attack, which I think are worse.

It's like the zombie thing.

I'd prefer a fast zombie and just get it over with.

Okay, yeah.

It's it.

Okay.

So his first target is the Dochev's concrete plant.

Workers there watch in disbelief as this steel-covered bulldozer smashes onto the property through the plant walls.

The building collapses around it.

Bystanders try stopping this bulldozer by jamming debris into the treads.

One person fires a handgun at it, but you saw it.

It does nothing.

And they can't see if there's a driver inside.

They don't know if somebody is working it remotely.

Like, no one understands what's going on.

And this is when Cody Dochev shows up.

Oh, I bet you.

Can you go backwards if you could?

Because I think, I have a theory that that's Cody Dochev.

He tried to get into it.

Oh, yeah.

But he actually slipped off of that.

That's a guess, though, because there's a cop there, so that could be a cop, and I could be wrong.

But Cody Dochev actually tried to get up and inside when he was doing that, and he was unable to.

So what he did,

he gets the rest of the concrete plant, evacuate it, and then he goes and gets his own front end loader, and he tries to basically go lift, I don't think we have that, go lift

that bulldozer off the ground.

Damn.

It's like, that's sad.

Don't know.

You're not going to beat that thing.

All Cody can manage doing is spinning

the bulldozer like around a little bit, but as the two machines ram each other, Cody gets knocked out.

Oh, man.

So this is when Marv starts shooting.

Oh, fuck.

He fires 10 to 12 rounds toward Cody's loader.

Sorry, that's really hard to say.

Toward Cody's loader, but the steel plating makes it hard for him to aim on the right side.

So it's not very well,

you know, planned out, I guess.

So thankfully, he misses Cody.

And I'm not sure if Cody was still unconscious or not, but how scary for everybody else where, like, then the gunshots start.

Either way, if he was awake or not.

So, now the police made it on the scene.

They have to duck for cover as Marv turns the bulldozer's guns in the direction of a fuel truck.

Ooh.

But thank God he can't aim well.

So instead of hitting the fuel truck, he just takes out some natural gas piping, which is, it's fine, it's natural.

And a couple electrical boxes, which is just sparks, and that's fun.

And a transformer, which is a great cartoon.

So once that's done, the bulldozer then turns and slowly drives off, heading toward downtown Granby.

And this is where it gets bad.

Marv drives the bulldozer into Granby and his path of destruction begins.

He crushes a Ford expedition.

He destroys the Granby Town Hall.

The town fucking hall.

Oh, no.

Then he destroys the library.

then he destroys the city's only traffic light

come on then a bank we have the bank holy shit

yeah

that gorgeous stone-faced bank

Then the sky hang newspaper offices who had been reporting on him.

Oh my god, that's a lot of fucking damage.

That is fucking damage like crazy.

And then a house owned by Granby's town, a Granby Town board member, as it goes, people are trying to shoot at the bulldozer.

Some people try throwing grenades at it.

What the f-

This is...

That's

that's crazy.

I'm sorry, you don't carry a grenade?

Well,

then you're not ready when a big bulldozer comes to town.

The top of your list of things you destroyed was a Ford Explorer.

Yeah.

I'm really mad about that.

They're a gorgeous vehicle.

Bullets bounce off of this thing.

Some locals get it like Corey tried to do.

Some get into their own construction machinery and also drive at the bulldozer.

None of them are a match.

Soon, Denver media outlets have helicopters in the air on the scene while everyone's radios are tuned to the blow-by-blow that the local AM radio station is basically giving everybody.

Hell yeah.

So everyone hears it when Marv turns his bulldozer toward a propane storage yard

that has five 3,000 gallon tanks and two huge 30,000 gallon tanks of propane.

That's big.

If he is able to shoot at even one of these tanks, the whole area could go up.

And right across the street is a senior living center.

Come on.

Yeah.

Luckily, Marv's aim is impeded, so he abandons that horrific plan.

Just like everyone's standing there waiting for something to happen.

He's just like,

Never mind, goes the other way.

And what he heads for is one of my favorite names of a business ever: Grambles Hardware Store.

Grambles Hardware Store.

It's cute.

No one likes it as much as me,

Alone again.

And thanks.

And Grambles is owned by another town board member.

So Marv drives directly into the front of this hardware store and he brings the whole thing down around him.

Can we see that?

There it is.

That's the one.

Is that the last one?

To be this one?

Okay.

That was it.

Grambles.

We hardly knew ye.

This is when the bulldozer stops and steam starts hissing out of the now dead engine and the bulldozers treads like there's debris stuck in all of them.

They can't go any further.

Deputies carefully approach the silent bulldozer, actively avoiding the gun ports, and that's when they hear a gunshot from inside.

It takes bomb techs 10 hours to cut through the steel armor to get inside.

So at 1 a.m., they are able to blowtorch a hole big enough to see see inside and that's where they see that Marv He Meyer is slumped over dead.

He has shot himself in the head.

Wow.

So despite the name that the press ends up giving to this creation, the killdozer, miraculously, no one in this town, I almost said Grambles.

No one in the town of Grambles, where I'm the mayor.

This is good news.

No one is killed.

It's very sad that Marv is is killed.

Yeah, but thank God no one else is hurt or killed.

Yeah.

Except for the Ford exposition.

Yeah.

Okay, so because of his manifesto, many outsiders have come to see Marv as like a kind of a folk hero,

being an anti-bureaucrat vigilante who's taken a stand against a small town's big government.

That's not what happened here.

Yeah.

This is a person who isolated themselves, started believing every goddamn thing that they thought, got real into money, ego, bullshit, and didn't have a person to call up and go, hey, can I run a couple things by you?

I would really love to build the largest kill dozer anyone's ever seen and attack my enemies.

And then that person goes, Marv, get out of the hot tub.

Get down to the tavern and be around other people.

So people do go to the town asking to see the kill dozer.

They're told there's nothing to see.

People do not like it when people go there, obviously.

Authorities actually dismantled the killdozer and sent its parts to different scrapyards across the country so that it could never be made into like a shrine or, you know what I mean?

Anything like that.

And over 20 years later, from that day of destruction,

the town of Granby and the people who lived there still have painful memories and of course massive trauma about like one of the most like insane, but also like, is this actually happening moments of all time?

Marf Heemeier's two-hour rampage cost $7 million in damage, and

it was done to basically mom and pop businesses, just local people.

Many were never able to recover.

Some were able to rebuild, and the town actually really came together to help each other very beautifully.

But

some people just had to go out of business.

In In the aftermath of that day,

the people of Gramby came together as a community, as I was just trying to improvise, but now I have to read it off the paper.

There we are.

They came together.

So, this is where it ended up.

This is Grambles.

That was Grambles.

Look at all those jeans.

And those are all those people.

You're not into the denim?

I love it.

We told you it had an old West Field.

We did.

These people cleaned up the destruction and the debris together.

They actually found new spaces for displaced businesses and they did their best to move forward as a community.

It's a very stark contrast to Marv Heemeier's own trajectory.

He worked to become a very well-liked fixture in the town, but

ultimately

he couldn't get past these

ideas he had in his head of what he was supposed to get and what he was owed and that entitlement that a lot of people have a problem with.

And that, of course, caused him to withdraw into his hot tub and go insane.

In the documentary Tread, one friend of Marv's actually

offers a simple, sad, and I will say a little bit funny explanation for Marv's dark turn, saying,

He became a lonely man.

He spent too much time alone.

That's what I put it off to.

He spent too much time in the hot tub alone.

He said that.

He said that.

Damn.

That's the full quote.

And that's the story of the kill dozer.

Great job.

Thank you.

Wow.

What a tale.

Amazing, amazing story, Colorado.

Good job.

Happy backers.

I'll turn this one off.

Oh, that's good to see you.

What's up?

Hi, how are you?

How are you?

We thought it would never happen.

One small note.

Oh.

That got lost in the kerfuffle.

This is Georgia Hardstar.

And that's going to go here.

What happens?

Good afternoon.

Thank God for you.

Thank God for you.

Oh, good job.

So whoever gets picked, I'm going to be right over there.

Okay.

Would you find the button?

Did you find the button?

Remember?

I got it.

Oh, you do here.

Give it to me.

Oh, hell yeah.

You're the best.

Thank you.

Can you do your couple stuff off stage, please?

Well, I forgot to tell him.

Remember, I told you that I bought something today at Goldmine for the hometown person here it's a button you want to read it out loud ask me about my bad habits and red flags

it's kind of like made for this podcast it's perfect yeah so good well oops so this if you don't know I spilt my water did you on this gorgeous carpet

um

If you don't know, this is the part where Georgia randomly picks anybody from the audience to come up and tell their hometown with us on stage.

And there's rules behind it.

Don't just make it short.

Don't be shit-faced.

Don't point at someone you don't know.

You want it?

Yeah?

Okay.

Right here.

Go over there, please.

Sorry, I hate doing that.

For one second, I thought it was the hot dog putting their hand up, and I was just like, well, here we go.

Okay.

And then we wait a little while.

Oh, yeah.

And we're like, how did you feel about that first show?

Pretty good.

I think we did okay.

Thanks.

Here she is.

Here you come.

Yay!

Hi, Katie.

You guys, it's Katie.

Hi.

Here.

Katie.

Yes, right here, front and center.

Hi.

I'm from Bradenton, Florida.

We flew in from Florida yesterday.

Wow.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Do you like Colorado?

I do so far.

We've only been here a day and it's my first time ever and we're having so much fun.

Sorry, Katie, I think they're all booing you right now.

Anyways,

they're mad because it's not a Colorado hometown.

Oh, was it supposed to be?

It doesn't matter.

Oh, I'm sorry.

I didn't know.

Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.

Maybe there could be another one.

Yes.

If you're not mean.

Unless we get kicked out of this theater.

People are like, get out of here.

Yeah.

Okay, Katie, tell us your hometown.

My hometown is Bradenton, Florida.

Okay.

And we like it.

We like that idea.

Yeah.

Yep.

Is that all I'm supposed to do?

Oh, no.

I should have known.

I don't know how.

Katie.

Is that it?

Yes.

Katie.

Katie does anybody have a hometown from Colorado.

You pick someone.

You do it.

Really?

You pick it.

Oh, well, then I'll pick the clapping lady.

Is it from Colorado?

Come on up.

Okay.

Okay, here she comes.

Hey, here we go.

Cassandra!

It's Cassandra, everyone!

From Colorado!

For you, I was just shocked, the

community.

You're right here.

Here.

Okay, what's your name?

My name is Cassandra.

Hi.

Sandra or Cassandra?

Cassandra.

Cassandra.

Cassandra, everybody.

And where are you from?

Vale.

From Vale, Colorado?

This is your mouth.

See how they did it?

Yeah, okay.

I don't know how to do this.

I'm sorry.

No, you do.

Just tell us why you got into true crime.

What story got you into true crime?

Yeah.

Your voice.

It wasn't a story.

Am I near?

But my story, my fun story is

from up in Vale in those areas.

We all look at them.

They're very, you know, hoity-toity.

Oh.

Yeah.

Richie, richy-rich people?

Right.

Okay.

So when I was a freshman in high school, I went to a party in Aspen, Colorado.

Colorado,

and

the mother walked around with a silver platter of illicit substances.

A good one or a bad one?

Yeah, a good one.

No, yeah,

very clean.

Very clean.

Wow.

But later on, somebody snitched to their mother.

And the...

wife and son that were involved literally took all of the fall for this husband who purchased everything and owned the house.

Wow.

Just so that his name wasn't involved.

Wow.

Really?

Yeah.

And then did they go to jail?

Yeah.

For like a hot minute.

No, really?

How old was the son?

17.

No,

did he have

a chance?

They were critic.

Oh, okay.

No.

Okay.

No, Juzy.

He probably, like, cleaned up trash on the side of the road for like six months.

Yeah, that's how it is.

But yeah, no.

Aspen.

Oh, I'm sorry.

In Vale, our parents still yell at us.

Oh, okay.

Good.

Yay.

Cassandra, everyone.

Cassandra, the job.

Thank you.

Cassandra, guess what you get?

Wait, Cassandra, Cassandra, you get this pin.

Oh, yeah.

She said I practiced for six weeks and it still sucks.

Cassandra, that's how we feel.

That's the vibe, baby.

Yeah, that's 100%.

Well,

thank you so much for being here tonight.

This is incredible.

We appreciate you guys coming to our first live show in six freaking years.

Oh, my God.

It's selling out two nights in Denver.

Thank you guys so much.

We love you so much.

Thank you, Denver.

Stay sexy.

Elvis, do you want a cookie?

Two rich young Americans moved to the Costa Rican jungle to start over, but one of them will end up dead and the other tried for murder three times.

From the start, the omens are bad.

That place is the darkest jungle you've ever seen in your life.

You have no clue.

John and Anne Bender are young, rich, and attractive.

He's a Wall Street whiz kid.

Just handsome.

Movie star handsome.

And they're devoted to each other.

There was a lot of just like warmth and care.

They set up a nature reserve and build a strange new home it's like a spaceship's landed on the top of a hill in the middle of the jungle in costa rica but slowly their dream starts to crumble it was just doomed just doomed

i'm becky milligan and this is hell in heaven a new podcast from exactly right media and i heart podcasts produced by blanchard house i'm a seasoned investigative journalist and i've reported on some pretty weird stories over the years.

But believe me, stories don't get much weirder than this.

Because even out here in the jungle, you can run,

but you can't hide.

And all of a sudden, there's guys with guns.

Lots of men with guns.

They were saying, help, help, they're kidnapping us.

As their past catches up with them, our couple retreat from reality.

They lose it.

They actually lose it.

They sort of went nuts.

Until one night, everything spins out of control

he says colonel we heard a shot inside the boss's house and i could see the gun on the floor and the trail of blood and one of them will end up being tried for murder not once

people gasped not twice stunned

but three times

we were all looking at each other just in total disbelief

Hell in Heaven premieres on October 9th.

New episodes Thursdays.

Listen to Hell in Heaven on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This has been an Exactly Right production.

Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

This episode was mixed by Liana Scolacci.

Our researchers are Maren McLashen and Allie Elkin.

Email your hometowns to myfavorite murder at gmail.com.

Follow the show on Instagram at myfavorite murder.

Listen to MyFavorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And now you can watch us on Exactly Right's YouTube page.

While you're there, please like and subscribe.

Goodbye.

Bye.

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