Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 63: Steven's Tuxedo

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Goodbye.

Hello,

and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

That's right.

Every Wednesday we recap our old shows with all new commentary, updates, and insights.

You are welcome.

Today we're recapping episode 63.

We're getting so close to 100, which we named Steven's Tuxedo.

This episode came out April 6th, 2017, just 100 years ago.

Let's listen to the intro of episode 63 in 2017.

Stephen was looking at his knobs

very

concerned.

Intently in concern.

Almost like a DJ.

He did look like Steve Aoki, kind of.

He looked like a Las Vegas DJ.

Totally.

Being like, what about the treble?

That's me.

What about the bass?

Have you done any DJing, Stephen, in Las Vegas?

Can't say I have, but it's the dream, you know.

is that is that where you're aiming?

Is that the goal?

To be on one of those billboards for Haka Sun?

Yes.

Oh, DJ Steve.

What would, which would your, what's the better DJ name for Steven?

DJ Mustache.

DJ Stash.

Oh, shit.

DJ Stash.

Coming this fall.

Yeah.

What if it's Elvis and Steven?

Elvis is that.

Don't try to shove Elvis into this.

This is Steven's project for Las Vegas.

Sorry.

Elvis gets up and moves, like scratches the record himself.

Yeah.

Oh.

Elvis, anything to say about that?

He came up to the mic and then he did.

On the mic, he's about to fucking MC.

Elvis is the MC.

With a lot of intent.

Steven is the DJ.

Elvis is the MC.

Speaking of Elvis and Steven, we have a corrections corner because last week,

glaringly missing from the episode was both Steven and Elvis because Stephen thinks he can take a fucking vacation and fucking walk away from this thing

that we were going to give you shit about it.

Stephen, the unpaid intern that does the most work of anyone on this podcast.

He thinks he can go visit his mother.

He can visit family, that he can stay behind in Portland.

Nope.

Do whatever he wants in Portland.

Don't worry.

He begged us to come back.

And we were like, we'll talk.

We'll talk it through.

Yeah.

So this is his trial episode.

Yeah.

And Elvis like revolted because he was like, whoa.

So, well, that means we recorded at the Feral Audio Studios.

And like when I got there, I was like, wait a minute, Elvis isn't here.

So he wasn't on either, but don't worry.

He's fine.

A lot of concern.

A lot of social media concern for Elvis.

He's very healthy.

He's here in front of us, flicking his tail around as we speak.

Yeah.

And they were like, are Georgia and Karen okay?

Because they're not yelling at Steve in this episode.

Yeah.

They're like, this is all very uncomfortable.

But everyone's fine.

You know, somebody was like, does your mom yell at you like Karen?

Do you miss it?

Yeah, of course.

Did you miss getting reprimanded for shit that you had nothing to do with?

For shit that is clearly our fault.

I did do a My Favorite Murder Related activity.

I sent you guys pictures.

I went to Klein Falls, which was the subject of one of the live stories.

Yes.

Which was like, it was eerie.

Because I'd never done anything like that, like visited the site of something, but my mom was like, oh, it's just up the road from where I live.

live

like okay uh i guess i'll take pictures because people might want to see this but it changes the view when you know that someone got fucking bludgeoned by a hatchet there so crazy yeah well welcome back stephen

yeah we're glad you're we're glad you're back yeah we're glad you're back um i do have a thing that it's not it's neither it's a new corner but it's almost like an announcement corner but it just feels like i've heard from enough people online you and i have talked about it enough so this feels like like a thing that just needs to be said, which is more like this.

We love touring.

We love doing live shows.

We have the best time.

It is such an amazing thing to come out to a wall of energy and people's positivity.

It's the best.

99% of the people that go to our shows and participate in our shows are lovely, joyous people who are having a great time.

We heard from a bunch of people from Portland who didn't have the best time at a couple of those shows because there were people around them that were yelling so much at us the entire show.

And there has been a thought that has been floated in the community that we like it when people yell at us

from the audience during the show

because then it's a chance for me to yell at people or for us to make jokes about it.

And just for corrections, just no hard feelings.

We've always had a great time.

We will continue to have a great time.

But just so you know, we don't like it when you yell at us at all during the show.

And it's gotten to a point now where we just have to completely ignore people.

There was a show in Portland that was crazy.

There were people in the audience that were

yelling at us literally the entire time.

And it was, there were people around them bumming out.

So we have to say that.

What do we do?

We can't, if we say something to them, then that they'll keep doing it.

But we don't say anything.

We don't say anything.

What we do is this.

We let people know that we love your energy, that we love that you want to participate, but please don't tell yourself we want you to yell at us because that is not true at all.

It's never been true.

And for me, being a stand-up comic for 20 years, when you get a heckler in an audience, you shut the heckler down because that's how you perform a show of comedy.

That's how you keep in control of the crowd, but you don't want to be heckled.

So just because comedy comes out of it doesn't mean that's a positive experience for anybody.

Yeah.

And it certainly ruins the time of the people around you.

Like there was a couple people during one of those shows and it was just constant commentary the whole time and it's not pleasant and we now just ignore it.

As someone who's kind of new at this whole onstage thing, it's really distracting to like, to keep being distracted by this when I'm trying to like concentrate on being a good performer and telling my story well and not being nervous and you know sitting up straight, not accidentally flashing my underwear.

And, you know, well, and we really have worked.

It's not like anyone can say this is any kind of like, we're not doing crowd work.

We are, especially by the time we sit down and we're reading our stories, we have a presentation that we want to give to everybody and that everybody wants to hear.

99.5% of the people in the room want to hear what we're saying.

So if you're the person that got drunk and couldn't stop yelling or you thought it would be funny to yell or talk to us, just know

no one's mad at you.

Everything's fine.

But yeah, we absolutely don't want that to be happening.

So just as clarity, it seems like there was people in the audience in Portland who were upset because they paid good money and they waited just as long and they're just as big of a fan as anybody going crazy who can't control themselves and yell the whole time.

Well, there's people around you who are just as big of a fan and yet they're controlling themselves.

We understand where it's coming from.

And believe me, when I saw the kids in the hall live at the UCLA theater,

I wanted to scream chicken lady the entire time.

I wanted them to know what I liked.

I wanted them to know what was in my mind and heart.

I wanted them to understand how loyal you were.

Because it was a big deal to me and it meant a lot to me.

So, honestly, the fact that there are people having those feelings toward us, it's my dream come true.

It's, it's, we take it the way you mean it, but we would love to not have to deal with it.

You being there is enough.

Can I do a new podcast that I like, Corner?

Please.

But I'm worried.

Okay, so

I found this podcast because I was, we're going to Milwaukee and I was doing a lot of research into Milwaukee murders.

So stop me if you're working on this.

Oh, I'm not.

You have a picture.

I'm going to stop you by telling you I'm not working on anything.

So, go for it.

Great.

So, I found this one because it was such an interesting story.

And I'm like, how have I never heard about this before?

And then I, as I do with every story that I want to read, I put in the name and podcast because I don't want like Sword and Scale to have done it a week ago.

And I seem like a fucking asshole.

Right.

So I did this one.

And I found this podcast called Unsolved.

And it's about this kidnapping and murder of this kid named John Zira

back in 1976.

And they never found the guy, but they maybe found this.

There's all these suspects.

And of course, it's just like the Johnny Gosh story where it's like, look how bad this was bungled because we didn't know how to find people.

And there's two different districts.

And they interviewed people and didn't follow through.

And then this guy later turns out to be this child molester.

And is it him?

Isn't it him?

Is it not him?

But it's a good podcast.

And every episode is really short.

And it's by another awesome female investigative journalist, which I'm really stoked that there's so many of those lately.

So many now.

So many.

And, you know, so it gives it a little bit of,

yeah.

So it's a good one.

So Unsolved.

Unsolved.

Yeah.

And then you were telling me about one that I started listening to called.

Hollywood and Crime.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What's that one?

Okay.

So Hollywood and Crime is about, and I did a thing finally.

I thought, I pre-thought it out and downloaded all the episodes before I got on the plane.

So I don't do that.

It makes me crazy.

You get on the plane, you're like, fine, I'll listen to the thing now.

You haven't downloaded it.

You can't.

That being said.

See, as we grow and change, I pre-downloaded eight episodes of Hollywood and Crime.

Amazing.

And I was so proud, filled with pride.

And what it is, is

during the Black Dahlia murder, which happened in 1940s.

Four, six, nine, something.

Seven.

It happened in the 40s.

Right there.

It definitely happened in the 40s.

Stephen will jump on it.

But the interesting thing is, there were other

female murder mutilations around Los Angeles at the same time that people don't talk about.

And so it strings together all of these different cases.

And it's unbelievable.

And how they're related.

I only listened to like 10 minutes of the first episode and I already was like, they both worked at the same fucking nightclub.

Yes.

There was definitely at least I'm, I think I was up to the fourth episode and I'm like, there's 100% like a slashy face killer in Los Angeles.

And it was because it was the slashy face killer.

The slashy face killer.

World War II, they don't.

That's the thing about it.

I was thinking is like, There's so much shit during World War II that nobody paid attention to because the news was filled with World War II.

World War II, II constantly.

And most of the boys were being shipped out and coming back and that whole thing around, there was a thing called the Hollywood Canteen, which was where the Formosa, down on Formosa, I think, or somewhere in Hollywood proper, where

active duty soldiers would go and they would get to dance with.

actresses like Betty Davis used to run it and so you could go there and like I think that alcohol wasn't allowed and you couldn't like have any romantic like romance wasn't going to be but like you'd pay for a slow dance or any kind of dance.

Well, I don't think you had to pay because you were, that was the whole idea: is like if you're active duty, but you're on leave, you can come to the Hollywood canteen and like basically party with celebrities, and it's all on us.

And all the ladies thought they were like doing a service for this serviceman.

That's right.

And it was

and she and um

Black Dolly went there, Elizabeth Smart.

Nope, Elizabeth Smart,

short.

God,

I now I don't know.

It's a mix of like, wait,

smart is modern.

Short is old.

Right.

She went there and so did a couple of these victims.

One of them is called the bathtub.

It was called the bathtub murder.

And it was this woman who had a lot of money, this young woman.

She went to the canteen a lot and she was found

in a...

bathtub full of bloody water and her face i believe her face was cut because

elizabeth short was drained of blood.

Yes.

And they thought it was done in it.

They surmised it was done in a bathtub, right?

I think so.

Or they definitely know it was not.

It was a, they had her somewhere for a long time.

Right.

That's the horrible part of that murder is that she was tortured for a long time.

And the person that killed her and may have killed these other women is the worst serial killer ever, and they never caught it.

And

if they're not related, that's it's such an insane coincidence that these murders were happening all around the same time.

I hate how normal her autopsy photos are getting, where like you click on cold case file or cold cases and you click on images and it's just a close-up of her face.

Have you seen that?

Yeah.

It's a horrible cutting.

Yeah.

And it's just like, you don't even put in like Black Dahlia murder, you know, like, and you see these like crime scene photos.

It's rough.

And I fucking hate, you know, I love crime scene photos.

I bought a fucking book called like crime scene photos, basically, when we were in Portland.

To prove how much you love crime scene photos.

I just wanted to prove it.

No, but it's actually I kind of fucked myself over because it was vintage crime scene photos.

So I was like, great.

It'll be like mobs and mobsters and like that kind of thing.

Good outfits.

Yeah.

It's not.

It's horrifying.

It's very graphic.

Oh no.

It's not late night reading.

And it's vintage in terms of like, it was back when people would die of horrible things, right?

Like rabies or something.

Well, there's, there are rabies ones, actually.

The rabies ones are the worst thing of all time.

There's just, it's all, it's, it's more like horrors.

And there's a description.

It's, actually, I found out it's, it's a, like a Los Angeles police detective's book of his cases.

Wow.

That they turn into like a coffee table book for people who don't get dates.

Hey, hey, watch it.

We do fine.

I do already love those.

Vince doesn't want to see it.

There's a guy with elephantitis in the nuts, and Vince wants to go look at that.

It's pretty fucking fabulous.

Oh, man.

Yeah, that's a good book.

I mean, that's the kind of thing.

The reason I don't look at those pictures anymore is because in the 90s, when I was, you know, a riot girl or whatever the hell I thought I was doing,

there were lots of times where we would look through books like that.

And it was almost like a contest of like everyone would be like, look at this crazy thing.

And be like, well, I don't even care because Kirk O'Bain.

And I've seen things that I can, I still see it in my mind.

Like the child who died of rabies,

I can see it in my mind when I say that.

It's horrible.

I can too, but for some reason, it makes me want to like consume as much of it as I can so that

I just don't want to look away.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I know.

Hey, speaking, that just reminded me.

There is a movie.

Have you ever seen the, it's like kind of a documentary.

It's called Wisconsin Death Trip.

Okay.

It is the best.

I don't know.

Stephen, have you seen it?

No.

No, I haven't.

He just did the most hilarious nod.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Don't get me wrong.

It is, they took a book.

I think it was just of like the police blotter from cities around Wisconsin in the 1800s, mid-1800s, I believe.

And so they just read the stories of what the police, you know, what they were doing and what the crimes were.

And it's insane because it's just like today, except for it was in the mid-1800s.

So it's like a boy walked onto into a farm yard and shot the two people standing there and walked away.

And they, and when the police arrested him, he said he was bored.

And then there's like

mothers who go and drown their children in the river and all these things that we think are happening now.

And they're just, oh, this time we live in and it's so awful or whatever.

And it's like, you gotta watch, you gotta watch Wisconsin Death Trip.

It's just.

What's the video of?

The visuals are this really awesome, sepia-toned, like B-roll that they took all around because so much of Wisconsin is really nature and farms.

And there's, you know, so they basically are just, if it's, if the crime is about a person walking into a farm yard, they walk down a road and they get like a little kid in overalls holding a gun or what, but they don't, it's not like act, it's not total reenactments.

It's just more of like D Feel.

Yeah.

Right.

And this kind of creepy, like a distant white farmhouse.

You know, that where it's like, it is creepy.

I want to see that.

You don't want to see that?

I do.

Oh, no.

I want to see that.

I thought you were like, nope, the farmhouse.

I got to see that.

Shut me down.

I can't deal with kids in overalls.

Really makes, really triggers me.

It's, it's, it triggers you about me in grammar school.

About me when I was a waitress and I had to wear fucking overalls.

Where?

This little cafe in Santa Monica when I was like 19 and they required you to wear overalls.

What?

Full overalls or like an overall skirt dress?

I think you could do whatever you wanted, but all I had was like Dickie's overalls.

Was it a gas station restaurant?

Like one of those like...

It was country.

It was like a country theme

restaurant.

Yeah.

Can we do

a

gift corner?

Podcast?

Yeah, let's just.

No, no, no, no, no.

Okay, really quickly.

I think I sent a couple really good.

presents.

Yeah, really quickly, we were opening presents before this sent to the P.O.

Box.

Thank you guys so much.

Every day is Christmas.

my favorite murder.

Yay!

This is how we love you.

This is how to get us to love you.

Okay, so we got these incredible pins.

They're like the enamel pins that everyone loves.

One is like a closed switchblade.

So cool.

It's so cool.

One is a fucking Ouija board, a little enamel Ouija board with a movable, what do they call these?

The movie parts?

Cursor?

Cursor?

Old-fashioned cursor?

It's a cursor.

And then there's one that says sweet honesty.

One says fuck politeness, which I'm putting on a leather jacket.

One that says

slightly spooky, which I'm guessing we said at some point in our lives.

Or maybe it's from another true crime podcast she likes.

Right.

Or he.

Okay.

Okay.

It says, Dear Georgia, Karen, and Stephen, thank you for making the best podcast in the world.

We have no murders to share, but wanted to gift you guys with some killer pins.

50% of the proceeds for the sweet honesty pin goes to end the backlog.

The rest of us are just selfish.

And then it's one of those emojis where it's a smiley face shrugging, which I love.

Don't know how to do, but I love.

That's a good one.

Thank you all so much by Crystal Kim and Anna.

And it's the company is called

Memento Mori.

Mori, or Mento Mori.

Yeah.

So go and figure those things out on Etsy because they're really cool pins.

They're such nice pins.

Yeah.

Very cool.

And we got a whole box full of them.

Thanks, Anna.

Thanks, guys.

Nice designs.

Good job.

High five.

All right, let's do the official nose blowing.

Great.

And then loving to start.

If I were a crafty person,

I would send you in the mail little, like five little black tablecloth handkerchiefs.

Okay.

Isn't that gross, though, to save your snot?

It's super disgusting, but it's a funny joke referencing when you did when you blew your nose on the tablecloth.

No, no good.

No, I get it now.

I get it now.

I didn't understand.

Saving your snot is beyond disgusting and makes no sense.

But I did blow my nose on a tablecloth tablecloth in Portland.

That did happen.

Yes.

So that would be

pretty goddamn great.

I felt like everyone felt very freed by that action.

I was, as I was bending down to do it, I was like, you should be humiliated while you're doing this.

And I didn't.

Nope.

It's just gone now.

It's almost like we're just breaking down the rules of society.

Yeah.

Fuck you, mom.

Come to our live show.

You won't believe what we do.

Tricks and things and

blowing.

Laws blown

to shreds.

And mine's blown.

Mine's and laws blown.

You or me?

I don't know.

Me?

Steve.

You should know this.

I'm going to.

Oh my gosh.

What is Georgia?

Yes.

Because you did the gorilla killer.

Oh, that's right.

Okay.

I don't remember what I did last week.

Oh, I do.

No, I don't.

Okay.

All right.

Ready for a serial?

I do.

You did the Moore's murders.

Right.

Crazy.

And then someone sent me a text saying, did you know that the

Smith song,

Suffer the Little Children, is about the Moores murders?

That's right.

Which you kind of have, they say their names in the song.

Do they?

Yeah.

Hinley.

He calls her Hinley.

Okay.

Ooh, that's so cool.

Let's all listen to it.

That's our new theme song.

Are they going to sue us?

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right.

And we're back.

And as we're recording this right now, now, we're about to go on tour.

That's right.

But when this comes out, we'll be on tour.

So I don't know how time works, but I mean, it's a loop.

You've said it many a times, flat circle.

And I do think it's kind of funny that we're like talking on the episode we're rewinding right now about the experience that we had in Portland on a live show.

Now we're going to talk about talking about it.

How many circles can we linearly

go around in?

I mean,

one time.

It seems like plenty.

Yeah.

But this was a major moment in live show history.

Yeah.

I wonder what number show this was for us, like total, but Portland was incredible.

The audience was great.

We like insisted on going back there, of course, for this next tour because of that.

You know, there's so many cool girls with tattoos there.

How could we not have a great time?

It's hard not to feel like, well, I think we do this in every city we visit where we're like, these are the real Murderinos.

But portland of course and especially in these early live shows and i do think we found out at some point that there was a drink special that got people especially up remember i think it was like tall boys or something there was some sort of like in the theater at the bar thing that people were taking advantage of.

And so it was a little rowdier than I think we expected.

Right.

And then we had to set some ground rules after this.

So I don't remember what those are, but we're going to probably try to bring them back this tour.

Well, I mean, it's pretty basic.

It's like if you've ever taken one theater acting class, it's like you're not allowed to get on the stage when other people are doing a show.

That's never been allowed in the history of entertainment.

Oh my God.

Just crawling up on the stage with your sister.

Oh, actually, when this comes out, like two weeks later is when we'll be in Portland or three weeks later.

So, oh, it's sold out.

Never mind.

Go to myfavorite murder.com slash live and see if there's any tickets left anywhere.

I think like, there's always like a little tiny batch of tickets that comes out at the very end, like right before the show, because they've been holding tickets for VIPs or whatever.

And so, sometimes tickets just happen to become available at all the shows.

Also, if you go under a bridge night of show, there's often a guy in a trench coat that can help you out that we place there.

It's Stephen Shaved Mustard.

I love that guy.

I'm still on the fence about whether I should be eating homemade gifts from fans that bring them to shows, which I've done in the past, been warned multiple times not to.

But

I love Rice Krispie treats so much.

And also it's like, these are the girls that are afraid of the people that do that.

They're not the girls that do it.

Right.

But that's a dumb thing to think about a mass of people.

That's just, that's naive.

It's us telling ourselves a lie.

When I was looking at this and remembered in these next couple rewinds that we're doing, that we had a company like Voodoo Donuts making us donuts of ourselves and delivering them to the theater.

I was like, why didn't I remember that?

That's what a gift.

Yeah.

Like, what a lovely sentiment.

What's great about this tour is now we're more social media savvy.

We have a social media person, so we can actually post all this stuff on social media.

So make sure you follow us.

Yeah, give a little credit.

I mean, we were doing kind of independently here and there, but the thing about us is you can't accuse us of being overly organized or planning ahead.

Having follow through.

I mean, you know, just really kind of being in the place where we're supposed to be and acting like that's what we're doing.

It's like, there's a lot.

There's a lot to this experience.

But I feel like a big part of.

this whole journey has been the Portland live audience, the people that have showed up for us from day one, real life, Portland.

We're here to get fucked up with you.

We're here to interact with you.

We want the full,

the full experience.

Two of my very best friends in the world are going to be in the audience because those fucking bitches insisted on moving to Portland against me.

That's what it feels like.

Against me.

So I'm excited for that.

Yeah, that's very exciting.

Mine too.

Jason Lopez will be there from the gap.

Yes.

Hell yeah.

We should have them all like sitting on stage as like the audience, on stage audience.

I wonder if there is like a special, a special balcony.

I remember this theater when we're talking about this Portland show, it was that theater that was in a building that used to be a school.

Yeah, high school or something.

It was so fucking cool.

It just, it felt like we were on like a teen drama from the 90s.

It was amazing.

Oh, someone gave us nipple tassels.

Oh, yeah, from the strip club.

I have a photo of it.

Oh, yeah.

I have some photos that I found from old live shows from back then, including the titty tassels that I will give to Shannon to post on social media.

Nice.

Get Get it going.

Remember the person who made us, who painted our pets?

Mine were on wine glasses and yours were on Christmas ornaments.

Oh, yes.

I still have,

I do too.

Like they're displayed in my house.

They're fucking gorgeous.

I have a photo of all of those.

I mean, the people give.

And I think there is a serious like arts.

I mean, not to, it's like the true arts of arts and crafts group of people in Portland.

I think there's the people there are like, watch me craft this.

This is what I'm doing.

I'm really building them up.

They better fucking bring it.

We want more.

And this is our passive-aggressive way of demanding it from the Fortland audience.

Well, okay, should we get into it?

Because of the live shows, and just because we are so disorganized, this is the third time in a row that I go first.

Yes, I love it.

What are you going to do?

Well, then, let's get into Georgia's story right now.

She tells the story of the murderer Joseph Edward Duncan III.

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Goodbye.

Ready for a serial killer?

I am.

Real horrible guy.

Uh-oh.

Here we go.

Joseph Edward Duncan III.

The third.

The way I looked at you when I said that.

Was born

on February 25th.

1963 in Tacoma, Washington.

And I said that he looks like the actor Ben Mendelsohn, who is the older brother from Bloodline.

Remember that guy's got kind of a lisp and he's like a broad, he's like an actor and he's kind of a little hot.

Bloodline, was he the bad one?

Yeah.

He's the one everyone's worried about.

Yes.

That guy's amazing.

Yeah.

He looks like him.

So like creepy skinny, just to have an idea.

Okay.

Like gangly.

I like this describing what they look like.

So in 1976, he's 15 years old.

And he commits his first recorded sex crime.

He, at 15, he rapes a nine-year-old boy at gunpoint.

Oh, fuck.

Yeah.

I said I was going to raves at 15 and he was raping children at gunpoint.

Fuck.

Yeah.

What happened to him?

I don't know and I can't find a lot of information on it.

Okay.

So clearly not something horrible.

Yeah.

Hit his fucking head.

I mean, and then he went to a boy's.

I mean, it's like they go to Juvie, then they get raped.

It's, oh, it's terrible.

And their mom like.

I don't want to get as gross as I feel like it is.

I mean, we really could say the worst things in the world and be right.

Okay.

The following, I want to say it, but it's so horrifying that like I heard.

Say it and then Stephen will bleep it.

Okay.

I read somewhere, and maybe it was Ted Bundy's mom or some like some killer's mom that like when he she would take him to go to the bathroom, she would pinch his penis as a kid.

Mm-hmm.

I think that's Ed Geen.

Is that Ed Gein?

So he wouldn't go?

I don't know, to like, if he didn't do it, he, she would get mad at him and pinch.

And it's like, how do do you not have a sexual fucking sadist on your hands?

Yes.

On your gross hands.

On your filthy, disgusting hands.

No, that's horrible.

On your penis pinching hands.

I'm pretty sure that's Ed Gein's mother.

She was out of her fucking mind.

That's right.

Didn't he?

He killed her, right?

No, she died of natural causes.

He kept her in the house

and played with her body and then like wore her face in the moonlight.

Pretty sure.

Nipple belt.

Yeah.

So unbleep now.

Okay.

Yeah.

Nipple belt.

Is that him?

Yeah.

That's our guy.

Should we give a shout out to the girl who

man, we're gonna need to post this, but like, we got this like gift once, and it was a box, and there were these, like, this like crocheted belt in it.

And we were like, okay, all right, we are yarn crocheted belt.

Was that in Oakland?

I think it was the Oakland show.

No, no, no, it was sent here.

Oh, sent.

Yeah, because then you guys left, and I went to take a photo of it.

And as I'm looking through the lens, I realized that it's a crocheted nipple belt.

And it's like every different color nipples, like different races of nipples.

And it's, and I just lost my mind in like joy of like how creative, like that's the description of Murderinos is like our listeners is someone crocheted a fucking multicultural nipple belt.

A nipple belt, giving Ed Gein that shout out.

Also, the fact that you had to have that realization alone, it's actually almost perfect because it's that like

growing horror.

It was horror.

We were, we pulled that thing out.

We're like, is it a, is it a cat toy?

It's like we were just like whipping it around.

We had no idea.

And then I, it just made me so happy when I realized how awful it was in the cutest way.

Yeah, because you couldn't tell.

You had to, it was like a magic eye poster.

You really had to stare at it for a while to understand the hideous dolphins.

I got to post it.

Okay.

Anyway, the following year,

Joseph Duncan is arrested for driving a stolen car, and that's when he's sentenced as a juvenile and and sent to Dislands Boys Ranch in Tacoma, which you know is probably a hellhole.

Nightmare.

He tells his therapist when he's there that he had bound and sexually assaulted six boys.

And he also tells the therapist that he had raped around 13 younger boys by the time he was 16.

What the fuck?

Yeah.

So he's a serial rapist.

Yeah.

Can you imagine losing count?

He said around 13 boys.

What does that therapist fucking go home that night and drink?

They're just like, now I become a sea captain.

I'm done with this bullshit.

I'm going to be a librarian now.

To the lighthouse, he said.

Goodbye.

I'm going to get a cat.

You know?

You know, maybe just a ton of cats, like 30 cats.

Just pet them.

Just surround myself with cats.

In 1980, still in Tacoma, he steals guns from a neighbor and abducts a 14-year-old boy.

Again, rapes him at gunpoint.

And for that, he's sentenced to 20 years in prison, but he's released on parole in 94 after serving 14 years.

Then he's arrested in 96 for

marijuana use, but he's released on parole a few weeks later, but with new restrictions.

And then in 97, he's around 34.

He's arrested in Kansas and returned to prison after violating the terms of his parole, but he's released from prison three years later in July 2000 with time off for good, good old, good behavior.

Good behavior for the serial rapists.

Yeah,

good in prison.

Clean your fucking tray at the canteen

at mess hall, and you can leave.

So that, okay, so in the summer of 2014, he's accused of molesting a six-year-old boy at a park in Detroit Lake, Minnesota.

But he's not captured until March of 2005, and he's held on $15,000 bond.

So there's a dude who's a businessman from Fargo who somehow Duncan had become acquainted with, who helped him post bail.

Huh.

$15,000.

I wonder what brand of pedophile he was.

Yeah, allegedly, allegedly.

Businessman.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, very allegedly.

Yeah.

And if he wasn't, he must fucking hate himself now.

True.

What if he was just trying to be like a good Samaritan?

Yeah.

He was a guy down on his luck.

Oh.

He says he didn't.

He said he didn't molest a six-year-old boy at a park.

So maybe he didn't.

And I'm going to spend half of some people's salary or getting out.

Anyways, Duncan Skips Town.

Okay.

Two months later in 2005,

Kootenai County, Idaho, authorities discover the bodies of Brenda Grown, 40, her boyfriend, and her 13-year-old son.

They're in their family home near Coeur d'Alene, and they've been bound and died of blunt force trauma to the head.

Wow.

And

sorry, Brenda's two other children, Shasta, who's eight, and Dylan, who's nine.

Oh my god, I hate this one so much.

I know, it's so horrible.

Okay, I know.

I almost didn't do it because it's so bad.

I know, you have to do it.

I love the shit out, but I didn't know that this guy had so much background to him.

I didn't, but it makes perfect sense.

Of course, he does, but oh my God.

Oh, my God.

Yeah, it's just one of those stories that you can't fucking believe is real.

Yes.

I can still see the TV

when I was watching the news and them showing the foot, the CC TV, or whatever foot.

Okay.

Yes.

Sorry.

I totally know what you're going to say, but you're going to give away the ending.

Tell your story.

And then we'll talk about it.

But I saw it too.

And it's.

It just burned in my mind.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, Shasta is eight.

Dylan is nine.

They're missing.

They're missing from the house.

And the three others, the three older people, are dead.

And so they issue an Amber alert and they comb the area and they can't find the kids until six weeks later, in July 2005, Shasta is recognized from her Amber alert by a waitress and manager and two customers at a Denny's, but then they're back in Cord

Delane.

Court d'Alane, is that you say it?

Cordelaine.

The workers freak the fuck out, immediately phone the police, and they position themselves to prevent Duncan from leaving.

Police officers arrive at the restaurant, they arrest Duncan without incident, and Shasta is taken to the hospital to be reunited with her dad.

And so the footage we're talking about is them walking into the fucking Denny's, and she's got her arms crossed.

She's like this little blonde girl.

He's this creep who looks like John Mendelsohn, Ben Mendelsohn.

And she's got her arms crossed and it's clear something is wrong.

Yes.

And you wonder if you had seen that, would you have thought something was going on too?

They must have because that many people, I remember reading about the waitress coming to the table and being like, I don't like the feel here.

Are you okay?

Yeah, what's going on?

And I think she waited.

Did he go to the bathroom?

Maybe.

There was some moment she had with Shasta, I believe, before, where she was like, this isn't good.

And she called the police.

Well, what's so weird about it is you, I have to wonder, they went back to the town they were from.

So everyone in that town must have known intimately what both, what, well, maybe they didn't know who he was yet, but what she looked like.

Yes.

So there was another sighting of them.

you know, in another state that they later realized happened.

And the

woman who worked at the store, it it was like a gas station, was like, I thought it might be her, but I wasn't sure.

So I didn't do anything about it.

And it's like, well, someone in your town would have done something.

And it also tells you, like, if you have a bad feeling about something, don't worry about hurting the dad's fucking feelings.

If this child looks in distress, at least talk to one other person about it.

Yeah.

If you, if you, don't send up every red flag you ever feel with bad feelings, but there's definitely, if you're in tune enough, there's when you know something's wrong, you know what's wrong and trust yourself.

I've always thought that like if I see a kid who looks uncomfortable or in distress or not

not feeling like they're where they're supposed to be, it's okay for me to go up to a kid and be like, hey, what's your name?

You know, like engage with the kid.

You know, I'm not a fucking dude, so it's not creepy, but like, like, don't do that if you're a guy.

Tell a woman to do that.

But, you know, to be like, what's your name?

And if you fucking sense something is wrong, like, you can just tell by body language with a kid.

Yeah.

Something isn't right.

I mean, there wish, there should be, yeah, I wish there was some kind of like set process or keyword, you know,

whatever.

This, yeah.

Listen, write down everyone's license plate.

Every creepy dude's license plate at all times.

Just take the time.

You don't need to work.

Quit your job.

Get a spiral notebook.

Sit in front of a gas station.

And just write down license plates for a while.

Yeah.

Done.

But I adore that Denny's waitress.

Oh, man.

I just, because you know that, first of all, if they work, she's probably working the night shift.

She's seen some loony tunes.

Totally.

You know, she doesn't call the cops every time she sees a scraggly

Mendelssohn type.

No.

We shouldn't involve that actor at all.

Poor guy.

He's like, wait, what the fuck?

Fuck you guys.

No, we just got him fucking cast on the lifetime movie of this motherfucking case.

You're welcome, Ben Mendelssohn.

We're creating work.

You're welcome.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Hospital.

All right, here's where it gets awful.

So Shasta tells investigators that the night of her abduction her mother had called her into the living room from the bedroom where she had been sleeping and she saw duncan like the duncan was like call your kids in here right now she sees him duncan wearing black gloves and holding a gun he ties her mother's hands with uh nylon zip ties as well as the mother's fiancé and the her brother slade then he takes this dylan Shasta and her brother, her little brother Dylan, out to the out of the house.

They get inside his stolen rental car and then

Duncan goes back into the house.

She hears her mother's fiancé scream and then sees her injured older brother staggering away from the entrance to the home.

But she didn't witness Duncan bludgeoning the three of them to death.

He bludgeoned them to death?

Tied them up and bludgeoned them.

Fuck.

When Shasta's asked where her brother Dylan is, she said, in heaven, there may be some evidence down in the Lolo Forest because that's where we were.

What does that mean?

On July 4th, 2005, Dylan's remains were discovered at a campsite near St.

Regis, Montana.

He'd been sexually assaulted and then killed with a shot in the head, after which his body had been burned.

And Shasta fucking witnessed the whole thing.

Oh, God.

I know.

Duncan had also filmed Dylan's final hours, and Duncan can be audibly heard in the video, which was shown to the fucking jury.

Can you fucking imagine how much therapy you'd need after that?

Oh, my God.

Saying, the devil likes to watch children suffer and cry.

Shast is also repeatedly tortured and sexually assaulted, but supposedly he falls in love with her and decides to return her home, which is why they were back in her town.

What a monster.

Monster.

Yeah.

Duncan later confesses that he had entered the home while the family slept with the express intention of murdering the parents and kidnapping the children.

He claims he, quote, wanted, he wanted, quote, revenge against society for sending him to prison for 20 years for sexually assaulting a younger boy who was 14 years old when he himself was only 16 years old.

So he wants revenge against society for being sent to prison for sexually assaulting.

Yep.

Yeah, that's not clear thinking.

No.

It's not logical thinking.

You're not taking responsibility for your actions.

You're not fucking...

You're not cool.

You're.

Doug Sunday.

You're the devil.

You're the devil.

The devil's like, dude, calm down.

Fuck.

Can you skip to the part where he gets murdered in jail?

Please tell me.

The devil's devil's like, hey, man, I hurt fucking corrupt attorneys, not.

Yeah.

Sorry, corrupt attorneys.

Sorry, corrupt attorneys.

So he's

subsequently charged with murdering Dylan as well as the three other family members.

During his incarceration, authorities are able to link Duncan to the disappearance of Anthony Michael Martinez, who was 10 years old when he went missing on April 4th, 97, while he was playing with friends in the front yard of his home in Beaumont, California.

Fuck.

A man approached the group, asked for help finding a missing kitten while holding out a photo of a cat, as well as a dollar bill.

And two of the children ran away in fear, and the kidnapper pulls a knife out, grabs Anthony, and flees in a white car with red pinstripes and no hub caps.

After two weeks' search, Martinez's body is found nude and partially decomposed in Indio on April 19th, 97.

He had been sexually assaulted and bound with duct tape.

A composite sketch is made of the suspect

and a partial fingerprint, but the case goes cold.

And then

when he is incarcerated, Riverside authorities are able to match the partial fingerprint taken to Duncan.

And so they officially announce his connection.

He pleads guilty in 2011.

The plea agreement carries a mandatory life sentence, although

he won't get the death penalty for it in California because he pleads guilty.

Duncan also confessed to two additional murders.

Samija White, 11, and her sister Carmen Cubias, 9, were last seen leaving a Seattle, Washington hotel to get cigarettes at a nearby restaurant for an older brother.

Oh, nine.

I know babies.

Police said that

they don't know whether the girls ran away or were victims of foul play at the time.

Of course, a fucking nine-year-old is running away and an 11-year-old.

Then on July 6, 96,

that happened on July 6, 96.

Then their remains were found on February 10th, 1998

in Bothell, Washington, by a transient living in an abandoned barn.

All three murders occurred while Duncan was on parole.

Of those murders, Duncan has only been charged in the California case.

In all, he's been convicted in Ohio for kidnapping and murder of the three victims, for which he was given six life sentences.

In federal court for kidnapping Shasta and Dylan, and for murdering Dylan, he was given three death sentences and three life sentences.

And in the state of California, for kidnapping, murdering Anthony Martinez, for which he was given two life sentences.

Is he still in jail?

He's still in jail.

He will be forever.

Look, want to see his picture?

No.

Oh, God.

stephen you better watch that mustache because

we are looking at a series

i'm doubting the mustache

yeah although murderina's got me a mustache switchblade cone oh yeah okay i can keep it in check okay

yes please do that case that little girl and the thing she went through people

i feel like Anybody that was like conscious around that time paid attention to anything around that that time.

It also because it was early enough so that there wasn't like nowadays, there's so much awful shit going on as we know everywhere all the time.

They're closing down nature.

They're closing down schools.

They're closing down protecting people who need protection.

They're closing it all down.

It's insanity.

It happens every day.

But there was a time, and I used to think about it a lot in the 90s where we had it.

We were just like fat cats.

There was nothing going on.

It was before we got into that first war um clinton it was clinton no he was it was the clinton days yeah it may have been later than that but but still it was like there wasn't so when something like that came on the news yeah it was heart-stopping it was like you've got to be kidding me how did this happen yeah

no i mean and even even in the just the last couple years we hear we hear about every single one of them especially when you're into fucking true crime.

Yeah.

I'm just constantly reading about these things and we're just constantly looking at, but back then it was harder to find those things and the detail that you can get now, the photos.

And so it was just this glimpse that you would get.

Yeah.

Horrible.

Yeah.

God, that's sorry.

So that's.

No, I mean, that's like, that was a big one.

And it's interesting to know that that was a person that started doing that.

That was a, that was an internally and intensely damaged individual that like started pretty bad.

And it got way, way, way worse.

Right.

Somewhere along the way,

you know, there could have been intervention or

just something different could have happened.

I think it's when eventually, hopefully, people start taking rape as a crime more seriously.

Right.

As a real, as something that this isn't something to have your hands slapped and walked away from, and that a lot of people that do it

do it over and over again and intend to do it over and over again.

That's a serious problem with a person.

And it's not, I feel like there's a lot of people who just think rape is someone who wants to have sex really bad.

A rapist is someone who's just looking for sex.

When if you think about it in a way which it actually is, which is this fucking violent, insane mind who needs to overpower and hurt and fucking ruin someone,

that is a criminal who should not be allowed on the streets after three years of good behavior in prison.

And how often do they escalate?

I mean, how many stories do we tell that start off with a person doing?

She, he raped a girl in his town, and then da-da-da, and then he moved to this town, and then suddenly he's murdering the people he's raping.

I mean, it's the story every time.

Yeah.

I feel like it's going to catch up slowly as long as we don't keep.

Well, I mean, I feel like the more people who talk about it, the more people who have conversations, but also the more like the Brock Turner.

I was just thinking, that's what I was thinking about.

Yeah, that the swimmer from Stanford who got released because, you know, nobody wanted to mess up his swimming career and he raped a girl so violently

who I think he drugged.

I think, I don't know if that ever came out

to be the truth, but that's the theory.

She was incapacitated.

She was incapacitated.

She, and when she told the story, it's like she's at a party, and all of a sudden, she's waking up behind a dumpster.

And the two men who witnessed it were so upset.

The two men, grown grown men, were shooting and

so upset of what they witnessed.

That's not something that you go, okay, well, don't do this anymore.

Who would do that?

It's like we have to start treating it and talking about it as the extremely violent criminal act that it is.

And also, stop fucking using the phrase sexual assault.

I was thinking about it.

Stop using euphemisms.

If it's rape, it's rape.

Some people say, like, you know, sexual assault, it's not sex.

Don't use the word sex when it's just rape.

Not yet.

Unconsensual, unconsensual.

Non-consensual.

Sex, yeah.

Non-consensual sex is sexual.

Is rape.

That's right.

Sex is between two consenting adults.

So don't fucking call it that.

Also, date rape is rape.

Date rape is rape.

That doesn't mean it's just nice and chill rape.

Nope.

It's rape.

Also, there's, it wasn't a pre-agreement that that agreement got broken, which is what date rape alludes to.

That's bullshit.

You went on a date.

What did you?

Yeah.

Someone got upset.

No, this person is a rapist.

Yeah.

You don't rape people unless you're a rapist.

Don't rape people.

Oh, man.

I mean,

I think we're coming down pretty hard on an anti-rape stance.

I think it's clear that we're anti-rape.

And we're saying it to our listeners as if we're about to convince them of anything.

You guys, stop it.

Stop it.

We're like, yes to fucking crocheted nipple belts.

No to rape.

Just know where we stand.

We're going to tell you how it works.

There's no gray area.

Oh, man.

You ready for yours?

Yeah.

This is going to be a bit of a left turn.

I'm not going to say it's fun.

It's an upturn.

It's an uptick from.

It's not the most upsetting.

For me, that really, and I'm not, I swear I'm not criticizing you.

It really, that's the one that gets me where I almost try not to think about it because it's just awful.

I almost didn't do it, but I'm like.

But there are people, I mean, that's, these are the stories people, when you talk about them, it's important.

Yeah.

Because also, because she's a survivor and she survived.

And she has a story to tell, which I think she's now coming out and telling it.

I bet she is.

Yeah.

I bet

she's doing amazing work.

Uh, and that's, you know, there's no, I mean, just to think of the nightmare she went through.

Yeah.

Is

as a survivor, she has to be

a very strong person to be able to move forward, not on, but move forward in her life.

Yep.

Okay, we're back.

George, do you have any updates on this story?

I do have some updates.

What an awful fucking story.

And I hate to keep bringing up the book.

Well, I actually love to keep bringing up the book, Murderland, but this dude grew up in the perfect serial killer area.

Yeah.

You know, that Pacific Northwest in the 70s, lead-filled skies.

I just bought a hard copy of that book because I was like, it's going to take too long.

It's okay.

It's okay because I want to support it anyway.

And I saw it.

I was at Bookstar and I saw it.

And I was just like, oh, I have to get this myself.

I'm like jealous that you're going to start it again.

It's so fucking incredible.

Okay.

So I have some updates.

In 2021, Joseph Edward Duncan III died at the age of 58 while still on death row.

He had previously been diagnosed with terminal brain cancer.

Anthony Edwards' father, Ernesto, made a statement saying,

While I would have liked to witness his execution, knowing that he is now standing before God, being held accountable for what he has done, what he did to my son, and the horrible crimes he committed to others, that's the real justice, End quote.

And then Shasta Grohlin wrote a book, incredible, called Out of the Woods, A Girl, a Killer, and a Lifelong Struggle to Find the Way Home that was published very recently in 2025 and co-authored with true crime writer Greg Olson.

We need to get that.

Yeah, I mean, everybody should go buy Shasta Grohn's book for sure.

Definitely.

Out of the Woods, it's called.

And in it, Shasta is open with her long healing journey and tells the story of her life, both before and after she lost her family and survived Duncan's violence.

I've seen her on TV and she is just this dynamic, incredible, awe-inspiring woman.

Wow.

Yeah.

That was Mimi.

Mimi said.

It sounded like Mimi was making fun of me.

I'm like, I'm wow.

And she's like, wow.

I do have a corrections corner on your story because I mentioned the, basically, the detail that Ed Gein's mother pinched his penis.

Right.

And that was a topic in the original episode.

It turns out that's like an urban myth.

And it's like some, there's no, basically there's no proof.

So

that's just me kind of pushing along another urban myth that I shouldn't have done.

Thank God you cleared that horrible detail up.

29 years later.

Please don't think poorly of Ed Gein's mother.

In this fucking podcast of horrible details, there's one we can check right off that one.

Let's get rid of it.

Oh, yeah.

All right, let's listen to Karen's story about Fred Newlander.

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Goodbye.

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All right.

I'm going to talk to you about a man named Rabbi Fred Newlander.

Do you know him?

No.

Okay.

So I got most of this from an old City Confidential, which, if you haven't seen City Confidential,

the oldest ones were narrated by a man, a great actor named Paul Winfield.

And Paul Winfield narrated the show like he had

a margarita in one hand.

He is so chilled out.

It feels like when he tells you the story, and the writing is so hilariously brilliant.

They tell you the story.

So they, it's called City Confidential.

So they tell you all about the city first.

So they're like...

It was a bedroom community.

Exactly.

Cherry Hill, Pennsylvania was a sleepy book.

And then it becomes, they do it thematically.

So since because this was about the rabbi, it was all these biblical references.

It was like, but evil did live here.

And it's like, and he's kind of talking like that.

He's a little slurry.

It's like innuendo-y, but

like such obvious innuendos that it's not.

Yeah.

I love that show.

It's the best show.

I used to watch it so much.

I don't know why Forensic Files is on constantly and that show isn't.

Because Forensic Files is like adorable because it's so dated, you know?

It's adorable.

City Confidential is legitimately good.

City Confidential is a beautifully put together, beautifully produced show.

Good stories, too.

Great stories.

They get great people.

Here's what I love.

The hometown reporters.

Oh, yeah.

Because they're the ones that know the whole story.

Angels, and this is their big fucking moment to be on TV.

And to be like, I know, I wrote about, he called me.

I'm

the one.

I'm the one.

It's me, Pam.

Listen, I went to fucking Phoenix University Journalism School, and I'm finally fucking getting my comeuppance.

But a lot of these people, like, it's true.

It's like these, this one woman who's a reporter for, it was like the Cherry Hill Gazette or whatever the hell.

I should have written it down.

It's on YouTube.

Everybody go watch it.

It's so good.

But these are journalists.

These are really, these are people who are like, this is what the town's like.

This is what we're used to.

This is, it's so cool because they give you the sense of what is going on.

And they're always such like,

they're such earnest people.

Like you trust them.

They know what they're talking about.

It's not this fucking, this bullshit over here where it's like, I think it was in Pennsylvania.

They're like, they know for a fact everything they say is a fact yeah and oh you mean over here like sitting on the couch right now i was pointing to myself oh yeah i thought you meant like the la time i was like oh no because we're in lay like the west coast oh i gotta uh no no okay so yes if you want okay if you want to get the full story the city confidentials on there um

uh also just i do recommend getting onto a youtube like enter some true crime something because they just have a million old shows on youtube that are true crime stories that just they don't.

This one doesn't have the title City Confidential.

It just says Fred Newlander on it.

Oh.

Yeah.

Then you click it.

So I think somebody was avoiding

getting in trouble.

So you can still watch them.

Smart.

Anyhow, please do.

Support City Confidential.

It doesn't exist anymore.

Okay.

So.

Cherry Hill, Pennsylvania is a suburb of Philly.

It's middle, upper middle class.

And it might sound familiar to you because it had the first indoor mall on the East Coast, the Cherry Hill Mall.

Okay.

Uh-no.

Okay.

So that's exciting for them.

I'm happy for them.

Right?

People, I mean, it used to be like because

the Highway 70 used to go from Philly to Cherry Hill.

And so...

Basically, that road was always full of traffic because people

worked in the city and lived in the suburbs.

And so they started building, you know, stores along the road because everyone was always on the road.

That's smart.

That's what led to the first indoor mall.

I never thought of that being like a there's a first one, yeah, it's just like then they were, yeah, and then people would just go like the whole city was kind of built around and the community was in the mall.

They, one of these reporters said, like, if you want to know the community or see what the community is like, you go to the mall.

Wow.

Um, I love a mall, dude.

Malls, dude, dude.

Yeah, so okay, so there's like 70,000 residents, and probably a third of them are Jewish.

So there's that, you know, these reporters talk a lot about how much there really is a lot of

diversity in this town.

And

so one of the more popular temples in Cherry Hill is called Mkor Shalom.

And

it was founded by Rabbi Fred Newlander in 1974.

He was an assistant rabbi at a different temple, but he didn't want to be the assistant anymore.

And he felt like his take on what he wanted to talk about and preach about, please correct me on any of these.

I'm going to use a lot of Catholic wording for very strictly Jewish things.

And I apologize in advance.

But he basically wanted his, you know, congregation and his leadership to be a little bit more updated and a little different.

So he starts this new temple.

And by the mid-90s, he's got 4,000 people going to it.

So it's like one of the bigger ones in the city.

He had met his wife Carol in college.

She was the daughter of a very well-to-do

garment businessman, I guess.

Garment manufacturer?

Like a garment

textile guy, you know, textiles and clothing merchant, I guess.

Okay.

But she was rich.

Like she grew up in a mansion in Long Island and with butlers and stuff.

Holy shit.

I love that part when they talked about like a rolling, a rolling lawn down to the ocean or whatever.

Like,

thought of having butlers just like hanging out makes me, I would feel guilty.

So uncomfortable.

Yeah.

We're like someone silent standing there ready to do your bidding.

Pointing at Stephen, I want to point out that Steven.

Yeah, I would hate it to have like a helper.

Just someone that just does whatever you ask them to

and you don't, you only pay them every five months.

Touche.

I am stan corrected.

I meant that about myself as much as I was.

Oh, no.

Yeah.

You were correct.

Stephen's crying.

Stephen, get back in your hole.

Stephen, put your tuxedo back on.

Okay.

So while at the same time as Fred is,

you know, starting up his, basically, his own religious community in Cherry Hill, Carol notices that there, with all the festivities that go on and the religious holidays and stuff like that, there's no kosher bakery.

So she opens Cherry Hill's first kosher bakery.

It was called the Classic Cake Company.

And she starts immediately, right?

She sees a niche that needs to be filled.

She does it.

She's not going to fucking rest on her dad's textile laurels.

Fuck no.

No.

And she's not going to rest on her rabbi husband's good time.

No.

She's going to be like, excuse me, I went to a party and yet again I couldn't get a slice of kosher cake.

Can I please?

God damn it.

Is there any buttercream in this fucking kosher cake?

That has to be

bacon.

That's kosher, right?

When it doesn't get bacon rubbed on it.

No.

So she starts this cake company and it does great.

So by the early 90s, the Newlanders are killing it.

Their son, Matthew, is a medical student, but he's also a part-time EMT.

Their daughter, Rebecca, lived in Philly.

I don't know anything about her, but I want to say great things.

She was, I mean, she lived in Philly.

Yeah.

She got out of Cherry Hill.

Yeah.

She made it.

She wasn't no

schlump.

No, no way.

And she still got along with her family because her and her mom talked on the phone all the time.

So the only worry was this.

Carol at the classic cake company made, the take was between five and twenty grand a day.

Holy shit.

So it's a middle-aged mom type who's driving home with a shit ton of cash.

Oh, no.

Every night.

So Fred starts to be concerned about that.

And he tells Carol, I'm going to look into this because I think we need better security for the house and for you.

And we need to kind of like address this.

So

in...

Fred says he knows a guy.

So what had happened was in 1992, a man named Len Janoff

had come to

the temple because someone in his AA group recommended that he go speak to Rabbi Fred Neumeier

because at the time, Len had just gotten divorced.

He was totally broke.

He was a raging alcoholic, doing very, like, really bad in general.

And also, it's people say he was kind of a bit of a liar.

So he had kind of a, he had some personality issues and some work to do.

And when he went to go talk to Rabbi Fred Neumeier, they got along great.

And Fred said, come to this temple.

You don't have to worry about paying anything.

Like, we want you here.

You're welcome.

And he really made a place for him there.

And they both smoked at the time.

So they would sneak off and smoke together because I think rabbis might, maybe they're not supposed to smoke or it's frowned upon or something.

Well, he would sneak away with his friend and they would go smoke and talk.

And

it turned out that Len had a lot to say.

He had been a Vietnam vet.

And then, according to him, he worked for the CIA and the FBI and special forces.

Nobody, if you actually have done that, you don't say it.

That's exactly what someone said in City Confidential.

Shut up.

Swear to God.

I think

his own friend, there was another guy that was this classic, like, because this thing was shot in, what, 1995, probably.

So there's some amazing, like, amazing colored blazers, and there's some frosted tips.

But his friend said the exact same thing.

People who worked in the CIA do not tell you stories about when they used to work at the CIA.

Yeah.

But part of Len's reason for drinking so much is because he'd been in the shit and seen the shit.

Okay.

So no one's going to say anything about it.

Okay.

So on Tuesday nights, Carol, as at the classic cake company, has her, it's her manager's meeting night.

And so she stays at work until eight.

So that night, November 1st, 1994 is a Tuesday.

And Fred comes home at six o'clock and he brings a pizza home for him and Matthew to have for dinner because they know Carol's not going to be there.

And then

Matthew goes for his shift being an EMT at 6:30.

Oh no.

Do I know where this is going?

You might.

So then Fred goes back to the temple because Carol's not going to be there.

So he goes back to the temple.

He pops in on the assistant rabbi's Judaism class and he pops in on the choir practice.

And he's kind of hanging out at the temple.

I don't know what he's doing.

When Carol comes home at eight o'clock,

no one's home, and she's talking on the phone to her daughter, Rebecca.

And while they're on the phone, she says to her daughter, Oh, the bathroom, the bathroom man's here again.

And she's like, What are you talking about?

And then Carol explains that

a man had dropped by to deliver something for

Fred, the father.

And

instead of just handing the thing to her, he asked if he could use the bathroom.

And so he came in and used the bathroom.

Oh, no.

And

Rebecca was very upset about that and was like, I don't like that at all.

Don't let him in.

And she said, no, he's fine.

He's this schlubby guy.

He was kind of like,

you know,

he's nothing to worry about, basically, is what she said.

And then they get off the phone.

And she says, he's a friend of your father's.

So don't worry about it.

At 9:20, Fred comes home from the temple and no one's home.

And then, when he gets inside the doorway more, he looks in the living room, and it's white carpet, white furniture, like almost a completely white room, and it's covered in blood.

There's blood everywhere, and Carol is laying in the middle of the living room, dead.

He calls 9-1-1, and when he calls 9-1-1,

he sounds really upset and flustered.

And at one point, he says to the dispatcher or the 9-1-1 operator,

Should I touch her?

He asks that.

So,

and I thought about that after because I was like, Well, that's kind of a weird point to make.

And then I thought, Well, that's that thing where if I walked into this apartment to come and record and you were laying in the middle of the floor, right, bloody, I would run over to you and be like, George, are you okay?

And touch you a bunch without asking anybody about it.

You wouldn't think to yourself, Oh, I don't want to contaminate this crime scene, right?

Or just, I'm going to hang back and hopefully, hopefully, she's okay.

So that was noted, basically.

Yeah.

And then I thought about that because, oh, so his, so

as he's on the phone call, he says, you have to tell that, you have to tell them my son is an EMT.

They can't send him here.

And so, like, the word goes out, but it didn't matter because he was like the third group that arrived.

So by the address.

Yes.

But, but he wasn't on that call or that run or whatever.

So, by the time he did arrive, there had already been police and another ambulance, or whatever.

He tries to run inside.

He has to get physically restrained from running inside.

And then he looks over and sees his father just standing in the driveway, just kind of staring.

And

he notices that there's no blood on his father at all.

There's not a drop of anything on his father.

And then he asks, and he, and

the rabbi didn't say last rites over her.

He didn't say the prayer.

Like there are things they were saying that they would assume he would have done as a rabbi

with a dead person.

Now, who knows?

Because it's his wife.

Sure.

So he might have just been in total shock and like wandered out.

Fair.

But when police were exiting the house, coming in and out, he never asked anybody what's going on, what happened to her.

He never said a word.

He was just standing there very dispassionately staring.

And if you found me and I was stabbed to death, another thing that'll go through your mind is, is the killer still in the house?

Yes.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Like to not think that.

How long ago did this happen?

Right.

Who did it?

What is happening?

Who did this?

Why?

Are they still here?

Yeah.

I think that's a natural fucking fuck.

Yes.

That'd be the scariest thing.

So he doesn't even think about that.

No.

That's bad.

Like, that's a bad sign.

Yes.

And also, I did hear a bit of his 911 call.

And it's just, I just hate so much when it sounds like people are fake.

I hate fake crying.

What does he sound like?

He, he's just, he's like a lot of that.

But it's like, I just, I just love good acting.

And that offends me when people are like, oh, this will pass.

Yeah.

This is how people act when they're upset.

Everyone else is so stupid and I'm so smart that they'll never know that this is fucking fake.

Yeah, of course they'll buy it.

So good.

I'm so good and so believable in these decisions I'm about to make about what a real person has emotions, right?

Right.

Like who wouldn't murder his his wife?

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

Okay.

So,

okay.

It says, go to paper.

Okay.

So, of course, immediately he becomes the focus of the investigation because he's the husband and because these weird, weird behavior.

Yeah.

They start talking to, but his alibi is airtight, as we know.

Yeah.

The choir teacher song

and the assistant rabbi song.

He asked everyone what time it was.

Is it for real?

And to the point where the cops were immediately like, that's a super airtight alibi that you don't buy for one second.

Well, and they start asking people at the temple.

It was the first time in four years he'd ever gone into the Judaism class.

Oh, my God.

And the choir leader was known to hate interruptions.

So no one went into choir practice while it was going on.

It was, and, and Fred himself knew that about him,

do some due diligence and then come in like once in the fucking weeks beforehand.

I'm not telling you how to fucking kill someone, but

it's the thing of if you don't know instinctually how natural people act, how people act in a natural way, you're not going to be able to recreate it.

If you're a sociopath, like this guy, and you think everyone fucking thinks you're on the level, yeah, you think everyone's dumb.

And also, clearly, he's got a bit of a God complex that he's like, I need my own temple, whatever.

Yeah.

So, okay.

Then they go to the phone records and they realize that the rabbi

had been calling this one number and they go and look at it and it's

a local Philadelphia radio talk show host.

And

yes.

And

we'd have to find her name.

Shit, sorry.

This is a weird turn I wasn't expecting.

Did you not see this one coming?

Oh, I didn't see

that we were going to go into talk radio?

No, I did not.

Yeah.

We didn't talk about that in podcasting.

Neither did anybody else, especially the fans of Elaine Sorcini's of Philadelphia Radio.

She's a radio personality.

So

basically they do all the math.

They see that he's, he called her.

He called her the day after the murder and said,

I really like hang in there.

I really want to be with you.

Do they fucking?

What's that?

They fucking?

Oh, they straight up up fucking.

Oh.

Yeah.

So they find out all these calls are going to her house.

This is a woman who the reason they met is because two years earlier, he presided over her husband's funeral.

Uh-huh, girl.

Uh-uh.

Yes, that's right.

And

they started having an affair,

they say, roughly two months later.

Oh, no.

Yes.

Body ain't cold.

He moved right in.

Yep.

You don't, you don't fuck someone whose husband you said the cottish for.

You know what I mean?

Right.

That's what I always say.

That's what you, that's your, you have that tattooed.

Right.

Uh,

okay.

So,

oh, they, I'm sorry.

I just got, I just got up to my own piece of paper.

They began, she admitted that they started having an affair 10 days after her husband's funeral.

10 days.

Oh, no.

After her husband's funeral.

No.

Yes.

um

and then two years later she gives him an ultimatum she says i don't want to sneak around with you anymore you say you want to leave your wife leave your wife and if you don't do it by the end of 1994 this is over and i'm starting afresh in the new year and he's like how about instead

well he so that was in October of 1994 and the murder happens in November.

Oh my God.

He's told her, I'll have this all sorted out by your birthday, which was in December.

And she's like, you know, I mean break up.

By sorted out, do you mean

you're going to end their relation?

No, no.

That's kind of what I mean.

A horrible murder?

Yeah.

Oh, well, that's not what I was talking about at all.

So, yeah, so he was making a lot of calls to her.

So the police, all the evidence they have is circumstantial.

So even though everyone's like, that stuff about his airtight alibi, it's still an airtight alibi.

Just like everyone's like, this is, this stinks to high of heaven, but it doesn't matter.

They can't get any hard evidence until the cops tell Elaine that Fred Newlander was also having affairs with three other women at the temple besides her.

Yeah.

And that's when she's like, guess what?

Hey, how about?

Guess what, everybody?

And she spills it.

Then.

What a shitty thing, though, for her not to.

If she hadn't known that, she would have never told anyone.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

I mean, I bet she needed to believe that he didn't do it or that it was all, like, I'm sure he was telling her, of course, the husband's suspected.

We're always suspected.

Hang in there with me.

Well, she wasn't a fucking murderino then, because any murderino would have been like, get the fuck away from me.

Yeah, that's, that's, he also told her, um,

I told you to trust me when God closes a door, he opens a window.

You're like, what, did you fart or something?

Get the fuck out of here.

It's like, you're the hackiest rabbi I've ever heard.

You're supposed to be really eloquent and have like good sayings.

Yeah.

That's rent a serious man.

Okay, maybe.

So in May of 2000, Len Janoff

goes to a local...

Oh, no, sorry.

But you were telling me what she was like.

So she finds out that...

Elaine.

Yeah.

So Elaine finds out that the cops are like, he's having all these other affairs.

And she's like, oh, fine.

Then blah, blah, blah.

And then none of this is as I believe it to be.

But

that wasn't until

way later.

I believe it was she finally tells them that in 1996.

But that's still circumstantial.

That could be like the lady that's mad because the guy didn't pick her.

Right, totally.

Whatever.

When it finally cracks is when Lem Janoff goes to a local reporter and starts telling her about how

he was told that basically

Rabbi Fred Newlander, who, sorry, in the meantime,

Len Janoff becomes the rabbi's spokesperson.

So anytime there's news cameras, anytime there's reporters on the front lawn, the rabbi sends Len Janoff out to talk to them.

And this guy is just a bullshitter.

Oh my God.

And apparently he was, he would, he, he would call people, he would give quotes.

He was like way out in front of the story.

Yeah.

And he loved to hand out a private investigation

business card, like he, and security business card.

The whole thing made me think of the Sherry Papini guy that's like, oh, I'll handle this.

I'll be the mouthpiece.

Yeah.

Like, what are you doing here?

Yeah.

Another fucking big-headed sociopath.

Yes.

And so they work on that guy for a long time.

He eventually tells a reporter that the rabbi hired him for $30,000 to kill his wife.

He spills it.

Oh my God.

And so he tells the story that

him and his friend Paul Daniels, who he met in AA, and Paul Daniels was 20 years old when this happened.

And every picture of him, he looks dumber than the last picture.

Like every picture, his mouth is open and it looks like he can't believe he's where he is.

It's super sad.

And I know it's wrong to be like, oh, that poor, terrible criminal that murdered this woman.

Right.

But it really looks like he got looped into something that he kind of didn't know was going on.

He could be talked into anything.

Yes.

But I mean, erase that because still, what happened was they knock on the door that night at the house.

Carol answers the door, recognizes the bathroom man, and

they come in.

She's, what happens?

She led them into the house.

So for whatever they said to her, the door, she was like, come on in, you guys.

She turns around.

Well, because she trusts them because it's her husband's friend.

i know and she turns around to walk in and one of them hits him hits her on the back of the head with a pipe and she goes down they crack her head open that's she goes down in the living room and then and the paul daniels guy says he did the one hit and then len janoff went in and just beat her to death with this pipe that's the story that guy gives um the and they in the in the city confidential the report this one reporter describes it where it's like, it's a white living room and there's just blood everywhere.

Like, it's so disturbingly awful.

Cause it's like, oh, you kill a person.

It's just like, yeah, there's blood spatter.

There's whatever.

It's actually the word bludgeon.

Yeah.

It's such a horrible word.

Terrible, violent death.

Yeah.

So finally,

So finally they get the cops get enough evidence so they can indict Fred Neumeier for this, New Lander, sorry, for this death.

So they go, they have the first trial.

And

in that trial, all this stuff comes out.

So it's just like all this gossip from the temple, all the stuff they, it's just all, they had no idea that their rabbi was this much of a douchebag.

And it all comes out in trial.

And

they find out that the daughter, like, you know, the mother had just said to the daughter, it's the bathroom.

Yeah.

Then they find out that Len Janoff had been there the week before on the Tuesday night when she was supposed to be there by herself.

But he got cold feet because when he went in,

Fred Newlander told him it needed to look like a robbery.

They needed to be stealing that cake company money.

But when he walked in, he couldn't see her purse.

And since he knew he wouldn't be able to make it look like a robbery, he got cold feet, asked to use the bathroom, and then left.

Oh my God.

So that's why he's the bathroom man?

That's why he's the bathroom man.

And he was there.

He was supposed to kill her that night and basically punked out.

Holy shit.

Yeah.

So

they

get it all in trial, and

the jury's deadlocked, and it's declared a mistrial.

No.

Yes.

And this is five years, more than five years of police work and lawyers' work and everything.

It's declared a mistrial.

And when it's declared a mistrial, Fred Newlander smiled.

Oh.

And the prosecuting attorney saw him smile.

and the next morning went down and filed for a retrial immediately.

Wow.

It's just like we are doing this again right now.

So when the new trial starts, don't eat that paper.

When the new trial starts, this time his children

testify for the prosecution.

Wow.

So Rebecca and Matthew now come and tell the story and it's, the tone is really different.

And he's like, basically, it's very sad.

The son is just like, my father was watching this whole thing and had no emotions whatsoever.

And like, his mother was murdered and his father didn't care.

And so awful.

Anyway, at the end of the second trial in 2002, he's declared guilty.

And

he does this speech at the end that is the lamest.

And it's like that thing we've seen before where they just talk about themselves and how hard it is for them.

And what a, and he actually at one point, at the end of this kind of rambling speech that kind of makes no sense.

And he's quoting Bible verse of course

and then he goes I and I alone know that I am innocent and then it's just like well listen what you just said yeah like basically like you just said you're super fucking guilty right right you're not being persecuted you're guilty yeah um but then after that Carol's brother Edward stands up And he goes, in the past eight years, you have acted in a manner so repulsive

that words cannot begin to describe the person that you've become.

You are a murderer, a liar, a coward, a cheat.

You've dishonored Carol, yourself, your children, this court, the rabbinate, your congregation, and Judaism.

And I just, as I'm watching City Confidential, I'm just like pausing and writing down every word Edward says because I was like, that's fucking bad.

That's powerful.

Like, you're basically like, whatever you think you're doing here, it's not working.

You're humiliating yourself.

yeah god doesn't like you anymore that's right you blew it you blew it uh so now he's serving a life sentence paul daniels and um len

janoff

were both uh given 23 years for their parts in wow that's it which is kind of insane that they're the ones that swung the photopipe but it was because it was yeah his plan fred's plan yeah um it's like an intention.

Your intention wasn't to kill your wife.

It was to get money for someone else.

And also, Lam Janov was promised that he was going to get,

he was going to go be able to go join the Mossad,

the Israeli army.

Oh.

It's called Dimsa, right?

That's the Israeli army.

The Mossad, or it might be Israeli Special Forces.

I don't know.

But basically, he believed that he was going to go from there to then go be like a super soldier,

which just shows that that guy was pretty nuts.

Yeah.

He was released from jail in 2014 and Paul Daniels was released in October of 2014.

Are you serious?

Oh yeah.

Wait, let me see if I missed anything because I wish I could show you how insane these pieces of paper look of my handwriting.

I'm handwriting City Commons.

I don't know how you can do that.

It's kind of fun to like watch TV and then be like, this is important and rewriting it down.

But I didn't.

I went out of order um

both trials were televised on court tv oh yeah

i've not i'd never even heard of it i know isn't that crazy and this is um so this guy arthur j Magada wrote a book called The Rabbi and the Hitman about this case.

And this is just one last story from it that I thought was pretty good.

So a congregant who was a doctor had been friends with New Lander for 20 years and traditionally went to the rabbi's house for their annual breaking of the fast after Yom Kor.

And when Newlander was charged with this crime before the trials, the physician told Newlander he wasn't going to keep their tradition.

And the rabbi wanted to talk it over.

And so he went to his friend's house and sitting in the living room, that doctor told Newlander

why he believed that he had had his wife killed, that Newlander never behaved like a grieving widower, that when the physician planned to offer reward for the information about the murder, Newlander asked for the money for himself.

Newlander asked his friend to provide a letter explaining that medication he was taking for a heart problem would have caused him to fail his lie detector test.

What?

And after, and he had a motive because with his wife gone, he didn't have to worry about the mess of divorce and he could go on with his lady talk show host, radio talk show host.

So Newlander tries to defend himself saying he loved his wife.

And then

the doctor says, Fred, no matter what you say, I can't help but like you because you're charming and you're beguiling, but I think you're a psychopath and a murderer.

And Newlander stands up to leave, walks a few steps away, then turns back and says, Well, nobody's perfect.

Ew.

Fucking creep.

Ew.

Uh-huh.

Can you imagine?

Imagine your response.

Still in your house.

And that's what he says to, I think you killed your wife, so I don't want to hang out with you anymore.

And you're a psychopath.

You're a psychopath.

Like if someone called me a psychopath,

it would ruin me.

I'd be like, am I?

No, I'm not.

I'm not.

That'd be very hurtful.

Yeah, most people would.

What?

Also, a doctor.

A doctor.

A doctor.

Yeah, you can't argue with it.

And he didn't get his degree from Phoenix.

No, I bet you that was a real Cherry Hill doctor.

He got his associates from Phoenix.

He actually got a cosmetology degree because he was interested in stuff like that.

And then he was like, no, I like medicine.

Yeah, I don't like cutting hair.

I like cutting people.

Yeah.

Wow.

That's some fucked up shit.

That's the rabbi.

That was a good story, though.

Okay, thanks.

Good.

Because I really did have it written on nine different pieces of paper.

I'm glad you went after me, though, too.

Okay, we're back.

Karen, this story gets brought up with people I meet randomly more than any other story.

I think I just meet so many people from Cherry Hill, New Jersey.

Have you noticed that in your life?

It seems like everybody's from Cherry Hill, New Jersey or

the surrounding area for sure.

But also, I think that the way, and we could credit this show City Confidential.

There's so many places to credit.

But the way this story lays out, where it's like someone starting to find bones in a backyard.

And just like, it's such a typical, horrifying true crime case that I think so many people just get.

into it where it's just like, oh my God, what's actually happening here?

It's such a memorable case that I think anyone from there around that time remembers a rabbi.

He killed his wife.

He was this, you know, it's just, I've just, it's just been brought up so many times in my life.

But anyway, do you have any updates?

Yes.

Let's see.

In 2024, 82-year-old Fred Newlander was found unresponsive at his New Jersey prison after suffering a sudden medical emergency and he died at the hospital not long after.

In 2022, there was a musical inspired by this case that they put up here in LA called A Wicked Soul in Cherry Hill.

The family was against this though.

The rabbi's congregation was against it.

It was a controversial thing, which makes perfect sense.

Carol's Classic Cake Company is very much still in business now.

It's just called Classic Cake.

And it officially reopened in May of 2024, four years after an electrical fire forced them to close.

That grand reopening took place at the Cherry Hill, New Jersey location, and there was a crowd of loyal customers there.

If you want to buy a cake from there, just go to classiccake.com and you can order a cake from there.

Oh, nice.

Yeah.

I always feel like this somewhat personally responsible when I find out that a Jewish person is a killer.

I feel like it's just this, ooh, god damn it.

Why are you making us look bad kind of a thing?

Like people don't like us already.

You're making it worse.

That's such a culturally Jewish thing for you to say.

I just feel guilty about it.

This is my fault.

Somehow I have a piece of this where it's like, no, you don't.

I'm sorry we did that.

It's like, you have nothing to do with it.

Okay.

But I also do think that because like, especially rabbis, it's such a like very specific, there's small amount of people that do it.

It's that, you know, obviously they're very dedicated.

So it's just like this idea that we all think we know.

And I, yes, it's fiddler on the roof inspired, but it's like, we think we know what this means to be a rabbi, you know what I mean?

To be a religious person and all of this, that then this turn is so like, oh, you're not allowed to be that way.

And it's like, of course, there's a dark side to everybody.

There's something else going on.

You know, those are the people that hide are the people that have these like overtly spiritual lives.

Totally.

I don't know.

Yeah, it's creepy.

I tried to get you off the hook there, but I think it was worth that.

It was kind of worth Saladi.

No, it's good.

It's good.

You're right.

All right.

Let's go back in and we'll listen to our good thoughts of the week from 2017.

What were were they?

What were we thinking?

So we can leave on a slightly, oh, yeah, we should talk about a positive, a thing we like,

a thing that made us happy.

Well, I would say, let's see, mine.

I have been on the couch a lot since we've got back from Portland.

I mean, it takes a lot out of you.

It really does.

But then also, once I get on the couch, I have a real hard time getting back off.

Like, it's just so much easier to stay there.

It is.

What have you been watching?

Modern Family.

Oh, yeah.

I TVO'd Modern Family, and

it is just such a, it's such a well-written show.

It's such a good show.

The characters are so watchable and likable.

I'm so in love with Cam of Mitchell and Cam, the two gay guys.

It's,

he's just the best character.

It's like, but all of them, they're just so many good jokes.

And that's the thing is, it's TV writing is very hard.

And

they have been delivering like a plus grade comedy for like 10 years.

I mean, all I did was enter it, and immediately I had like 15 episodes of Modern Family.

And I got it from my sister.

I will give her full credit because she's been obsessed with it since the moment it came out.

And that's why I have a song where I reference Modern Family.

Really?

Where I say in the song, if one more person

tells me to watch Modern Family.

Oh my God.

Blah, blah, blah.

And a lot of people are like, oh, you hate that show.

It's like, no, no, no, I'm just taking that from a real anecdote of me and my sister.

Like, every time I talked to my sister on the phone, she would tell me to watch it.

I watched it in the beginning and then I stopped.

It's still good, it's amazing.

Yeah, it's just

perfectly written.

Yeah, um,

that and I've been having great Lyft driver conversations like

that's nice because you always get scared, or I always get scared that it's like I had a nightmare one the other day, and I'm a nightmare person, a nightmare conversationist, which means he was just talking talking at me, and I was getting more sick from it.

And you go, doot, doot,

earpugs, yeah, earbugs.

Um, that's awesome.

That's a sweet one.

Yeah, there's it's been pretty pleasant, but I really have to get a car.

It's ridiculous.

I'm acting like Miss Daisy, but um,

but it's nice sometimes to have like a pleasant conversation where you laugh about how bad drivers in LA are.

Yeah,

yeah,

what's yours?

Um, well, I guess uh, I just finished watching it yesterday, but

Big Little Lies,

which I didn't think I would like.

I never read the book, even though Audible was always like, You might like this, you might like this.

And I'm like, No, I won't.

You know, like a brat.

Sure.

And even though everything.

Yeah, I don't like that.

So I'm from Oprah's book club.

That's the kind of, you know, and then, of course, it's fucking amazing.

Yeah.

And the show is so good.

And it was all these female characters.

that were

that their whole lives weren't based on they had these whole lives around their husbands and families, and they were central characters instead of being the backup singers to their, you know, and it was just like about them.

It was about them, and their co-star in life was their partner.

And it was just kind of cool, and the acting was so fucking good.

And Shiley Woodley, what's her name?

Shaylene.

Shaylene.

Yeah.

She's just like, I want she's such a great actor.

She's so great in it.

And it was, it was really fun.

It was fucked up and good.

And there's a murder.

And it's a murder mystery.

Oh, okay.

I didn't know that.

Because I tried to watch the first,

I swear to God, I don't think I got four minutes in.

And the first exchange two women had talking to each other, the tones of voice they were using made me turn my TV off.

Cause it was like.

Oh, hi, Arlene.

Nice to see you.

Or whatever.

Whereas like they all come out as like cunty cunts.

Oh, okay.

And then it's like, but there's shit going on underneath the surface.

Oh, I'm going back.

And it's a murder.

It's all the whole thing is a murder mystery.

Oh, shit.

And it's, and it's good.

And they're, everyone is having these.

The Nicole Kidman and Alexander Sarsgaard relationship was amazing.

Cool.

Like, you just need to watch it to see the two of them.

Nicole Kidman takes a lot of shit, but she's an incredible actress.

She, they're going to win all the awards.

Her and Reese Witherspoon, I think, are going to.

win it all.

I sent my friend a gif the other day of, remember when she was clapping at the Oscars?

Yes.

Someone made that.

And I can't figure out if someone did this to the GIF or if this is really what it looked like.

But it looks like her fingers are this.

It looks like she has alien fingers as she's clapping.

I think that's real.

Is it what her hands really look like?

I don't know.

I saw that too.

And I think it's real.

I was laughing anyway when I found it because

it looks like flippers.

Yeah.

It looks like her nails are wet and she's trying not to.

Let them near each other.

But also that she's from Mars.

Yeah.

That aside, that's me giving her shit when I say she takes a a lot of shit.

But she, for example, when she started acting in fucking those Australian, you know, I'm the pretty girl at the prep school.

Right.

She has been an incredible.

Did you ever see Dead Calm?

Or she's on the boat?

Oh my God.

If you want to see like an amazing murder,

like it's a horror, not horror, I guess it'd be suspense or something, action.

But it's her and Sam Neal, I think, and somebody else.

They're on a boat.

It's so good.

And she is like, it's when she had her kinky, curly hair.

Yeah.

And she had her freckles, and she was probably 20.

And she's so beyond.

So gorgeous.

She's cute.

Yeah.

Yeah.

She's gorgeous.

Yeah.

And she still is to this day.

They all play these wealthy,

these wealthy women from Monterey, and everyone has these secrets underneath kind of a thing.

And it's,

there's some, you know, it's good.

I'm going.

It's fine.

This is a, you need to, I was bummed that I didn't binge watch it because I had to wait a week to watch the new one.

So get in there.

Go binge.

Yeah.

Also Adam Scott's in it, who I adore.

Adam Scott's in it.

He plays a really great character.

It's he's fun.

Okay.

Yeah.

That's a good rap.

Yeah.

For sure.

Um, so that made me happy this week.

Um

anything else we need to?

Oh, I think that we said last episode was like 60.

I said it was like 67 and it was 62 or something.

I was off by a lot.

What's the numbers?

Sid, this is 63.

But didn't last week I say it was like 66.

67.

I mean, who cares?

Yeah, we're up there.

We're past 50.

It's not like someone was sitting there watching by like, oh shit, it's already, I said I was going to do this thing in my life before 67 happened.

And now I'm out.

Fuck.

They're like, you know what?

I'm going to stop smoking around episode 67.

Yeah.

And if I haven't, then I am going to start smoking.

Okay, and we're back.

Okay, so this episode was actually originally titled Steven's Tuxedo Genius.

I mean, it kind of almost makes you think that Stephen is a tuxedo cat, a little black and white cat.

That's what it made me think of.

Yeah, I picture those like tuxedo t-shirts from the 80s on him.

Well, if we were naming it today, there's many choices for us to rename it.

What about, like, for example, what if we called it, what about the treble?

About that Las Vegas DJ, Stephen.

Or you're welcome, Ben Mendelsohn,

where we're actually casting the lifetime movie, of course.

And then I like this one.

It's me, Pam.

That's right.

I forgot about my character, Pam, that used to come up all the time.

I do, too.

We should bring her back.

Did we use Pam in the

10-foot skeleton?

Maybe, maybe we had to retire it because that's the most famous Pam.

Oh, was that Deb?

I think you're right.

Maybe it was Pam or Deb or someone.

Has this all been real?

It's 10 year folly adieu.

Oh, my God.

Well, thank you guys for listening to another episode of Rewind.

Let's let Elvis and Mimi say goodbye.

Where's Elvis?

Well, you guys, thank you for listening.

Tell a friend.

Guys.

Thank you for everything.

You are our light and our

honor system.

And heart and soul.

And the honor system.

And mostly you're our honor system.

Yeah.

If you take a penny, you leave a penny in our hearts.

You've left a penny.

You left a penny in my heart.

Don't, I'll put a nickel in yours, motherfucker.

You're going to double down.

Well, thanks for listening.

I don't need, I don't know.

Steven Origin.

Thank you for listening.

Thank you for everything.

Ooh, does Mamie Mimi want to come and make her debut?

Maybe she does.

I mean, her triple, her triple appearance.

Yeah.

Third time's a charm, Mimi.

Stay sexy, everybody.

And don't get murdered.

Mimi.

Bye.

Bye.

Mimi, want a cookie?

Mimi.

Mimi.

Just like, leave it at the colour.

God, it's cute.

She's the Nicole Kidman of Cash.

She is.

Mimi?

Want cookie?

Want cookie?

Oh, Elvis.

Here he is.

Want a cookie?

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