500 - Knot for Naught

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Goodbye.

Hello, and welcome to My Favorite Murder.

That's Georgia Hardstar.

That's Karen Kilgareth.

This is our 500th episode.

That's so bananas.

I can't even come to grips with it.

It is, it feels like five and it feels like 500,000.

It does.

Both.

Both.

Yeah.

Did you ever think we'd get to this number when we start, when we were making single-digit puns

back in my old apartment in Hollywood?

Taking so much time to name these shows.

Yeah.

Really, a couple days' worth of, wait, wait.

I thought of one.

Here's a better one.

Yeah.

Yeah, I know.

It's pretty wild.

It is.

Cheers.

Hey.

Cheers.

Good job.

500.

Great job.

And that's it.

And goodbye.

And that's the last.

And then we're both raptured.

Wait, I'm a Jew.

Wait, don't take me.

Wait, wait, wait, no, no, no.

I don't want to go there.

I want to go somewhere else, please.

I want to go to Ireland.

Do they have any?

That's a different kind of rapture, the Guinness rapture.

What's going on?

God, nothing.

I mean, we had incredible shows in Boston.

Very tie-tie.

Two shows in one night.

Yeah.

By the time this episode goes up, we'll have been in Salt Lake City and then tonight.

We'll be in Oakland.

Wow.

Which is exhausting to just think about.

It's a future.

Hopefully you guys are enjoying the shows.

Go to myfavoratemurder.com slash live to get your tickets.

And thank you, Boston, for just a delightful, power-packed evening of all kinds of things.

I mean, everything happened in those two shows.

Speaking of, I have a movie recommendation because it made me cry, which I don't do.

Yes, you do.

You start.

I know, I know.

Once in a while, there's certain things, but I really need those good cries.

And there's this thing that all my girlfriends talk about and agree upon, which is that when you're on a plane, you cry harder at movies and it's a good cry.

And airplane movie cries are the best cries.

And I've fucking never ever had one.

And I've always been like, that sounds nice to have in your life.

And it never happened until we were on our way home yesterday from Boston.

And I found myself sobbing in my seat from a movie that I think you'll love.

I'm sure you love this movie.

It's a British fucking epic World War II love story.

Atonement.

Ugh, so good.

Oh my fucking God.

The typing keys soundtrack as she runs around that.

Everything about that.

Yes.

Incredible.

Until the end, I have a video of it.

I'm going to make a video.

I just was sobbing in my seat.

I'm sorry.

You have a video of yourself sobbing in my seat.

Yep, because it was so good.

It felt, I was like, finally, I'm a real girl.

Like, I felt real for the first time in my life.

You got to get you to the place where you do it and then you, it's not content.

Why wouldn't it be content?

Why wouldn't it be content?

Why wouldn't it be content?

Why wouldn't everything be content?

Look around.

So, wait, can you do a little reenactment of what?

So, you start to cry.

Oh, this is really sad.

And I was like, oh my God, I'm crying.

I was like, I felt like, oh my God, I have emotions.

These breaks are cool.

They're in there.

Yeah.

They're in there.

So either things are going really well and I'm like breaking through, or things are going really poorly and I'm crying a lot.

Either way, the rapture's coming.

I mean,

when I learned that it's very good to cry because it is one of the ways the body releases cortisol,

because I always had like not as much shut down feelings.

It was more like you're not allowed to do this and no one has time for this.

I have part of that too.

So it's kind of that thing of like, I start feeling it and then I just like fully muscle it down.

I think that's what it is, or it's almost like this isn't going to do anything.

Yeah.

You're wasting your time and everyone else is.

Yeah.

Stop it.

Yeah.

What will come of this?

Nothing.

Exactly.

Stop.

But then like learning that where it's like, no, no, no, it's for you.

Yeah.

You get to release some of that goddamn cortisol.

Yeah.

There are times when I'm like, I know that if I fucking started bawling right now, I would feel so much better in 20 minutes, but I can't do it.

And I don't want to do the things that I know will make me do it, like think sad thoughts, because I'm trying so hard not to do that anyways.

Yeah, you gotta, I don't think that's the way to do it.

I think you just have to be open when it really comes.

Yeah.

But that's a hard thing to, it's all easy to say and hard to do.

Yeah.

Well, Atonement, the movie Atonement, it's like 2013, I think.

Oh, Kieran Knightley and What's His Adorable Face from James MacAvoy?

McAvoy.

Oh, my God.

He's the greatest.

And Sarosi.

How do you say her name?

Move the liver.

How do you say her name?

Sircha.

Sircha.

Sircia Rona.

Thank you.

And fucking little what's her face from the fucking

football.

Kieran Knightley?

No.

Juno Temple?

Yes.

Thank you.

Juno Temple.

Oh, from, I almost just said Ed Hardy.

This is the saddest conversation we've ever had.

This is the 500th conversation.

No, no, no.

It's good.

Okay.

It's good.

This is exactly our kind of podcast.

Okay, great, great, great, great.

You can't, we were basically up for 48 hours straight.

So this is the result.

This is what podcasting looks like when you're doing it.

When you overdo it, when you commit too much, just too much stuff.

I'm going to give you a recommendation for your next crying movie.

Great.

Because it's a crying movie.

Yes.

Everyone give me airplane crying movies.

Yes.

Karen, go ahead.

Okay.

this movie, first of all, I was about to say atonement again.

This movie stars Alan Rickman and Juliet Stevenson, British movie, very art house-y, but an amazing director.

It was one of his first big ones.

I can't remember what director.

It's like a great director.

And it is called Truly Madly Deeply.

Okay, I've heard of it.

It's really brilliantly, it's like one of those things where I bet the person who, when they decided to make it, read the script and was like, holy shit.

It's like great, beautifully written, very real and true.

Okay.

But then also a little bit magical.

Okay.

Because it's so funny.

With Atonement, I was like, this is like a book I would read.

And normally I'd been like, I wish I read the book, but this is like the first time I've been like, I'm so glad I've watched the movie because there's so many little details.

Like I get cinematography now with the typing being part of the background and the music and the little moments that you just can't see when you're listening to or reading a book.

Yeah.

And actually, if you love the movie Atonement, I highly recommend the author Kate Morton.

She does very similar style, that World War II, like epic,

kind of historical.

Yeah.

And like seeing Dunkirk, the way they show it.

Like I, you know, you can't, you can picture it all you want when you're reading it, which I fucking love, but it was just done so well that I just don't think I would have, my, my imagination would have never taken me there.

And I think you're so right.

Those war scenes in that movie are so gigantic and like haunting put you there.

Realistic.

And then they like slice in real fucking footage from the time.

I mean, it was just, I think, one of my favorite movies I've seen in a long time.

Now, Molly, please correct me when I'm wrong, but I'm almost positive that it's the same director as Pride and Prejudice.

Am I wrong about that?

Yes.

God damn it.

Same.

500 episodes of the first time you're wrong about anything.

Can you believe it?

Joe Wright directed Pride and Prejudice, the new one.

Anthony Mangella directed Truly, Madly Deeply.

Oh, no, no, no, but Atonement.

Oh, Atonement.

Wait, okay.

You might not be.

Hold on.

Oh, my God.

Second chance.

Okay, I'm wrong.

You're right.

Oh, my.

500 of us.

Oh, my God.

It feels so great.

How do you feel here?

Congratulations.

Thank you so much.

Oh, my God.

I guess the first I'd like to thank

the rapture.

Just kick the box.

I guess I have to thank Georgia because she's the reason I'm here.

Steven Ravens, Georgia.

Stephen.

R.I.P.

We love you, Stephen.

Good job.

Congratulations.

Thank you so much.

But Anthony, it's because when I watched it, loving The Pride and Prejudice so much, I was like, this man is unbelievable.

But Anthony Mengele is the director of Truly Madly Deeply.

Went on to direct The English Patient.

Oh, such a good book.

So I read the book.

Of course, I read the book.

She always bragged about the book.

Okay, I'm going to get rid of these.

Okay, good idea.

All right.

Wow, that was amazing.

Thank you, Molly.

Thank you.

And and thank you for your honesty and your vulnerability.

Yeah.

And you're producing all these episodes, not 500, but a lot of people.

It probably feels like it.

Jesus,

there's three.

So, oh, you know what I was going to say for the 500th?

And this, I don't know if this has happened to you.

We've probably talked about it before, if it has, but I think it was the first time it happened to me.

When I was driving to work last week before we left for a tour, I got off the freeway.

I had just never seen a bumper sticker.

I'd seen pictures of it.

on your own yeah exactly so not from my own car yeah and so i pull up and it's ssg gm on the right side in the little talking yeah bubble and on the left side there's just a sticker of bigfoot and i was like this is my person is my friend i've never met before and i'm just sitting there and i was like honk hon yeah just like like that and the person i was looking at them through their own like rear view mirror and they kind of weren't turning around so i think they were just like why is this asshole honking at me so then i was like honk, hon, honk, honk, honk, honk.

And I, then I rolled my window down and stuck my arm and my whole head up and my door dies like that.

And they were like, oh, they kind of look horrified.

I borrowed my best friend's car and I don't know who this

woman is who's waving her whole body.

She must also be,

my friend who loves that fucking podcast.

This must be another person who loves that fucking podcast.

Or loves Bigfoot or

something.

But did she finally did it dawn?

I think so.

I think at the end.

Well, if you have a SSD jam sticker and you're in Burbank, like, hey, what's up?

Karen waved, said hi to you.

Was that you?

Let us know.

It was, yeah, let us know.

But also, it was really exciting.

Even though I know that people like this podcast and people support this podcast.

No, they don't.

Do they?

Get real.

But to see it like that in the wild, it truly was kind of like, oh, almost like being able to see it through the eyes of the other.

Like, that's what this kind of looks like.

It's always exciting.

Yeah, it was cool.

Cool.

Well, besides from having a podcast and 500 episodes of it, we also have a podcast network.

Yeah, thousands of episodes on that thing.

Yeah, it's called Exactly Right Media.

And here are a few highlights.

My Favorite Murder now has a brand new YouTube channel.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So you can watch full episodes of this podcast, mini sodes, shorts, and more at myfavoratemurder.video or by searching my favorite murder on YouTube.

They're holding us hostage and making us fucking 40 plus women make videos.

Oh, so please.

Not YouTube.

We really like YouTube.

Not YouTube.

Just in general, Molly.

Please go watch them so they're not for not.

Yes, exactly.

All of our strivings and lips liner.

Lips liner.

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And that's also where you can find MFM Animated.

That's right.

Our MFM Animateds are over at Exactly Right Media's YouTube page.

And this week we have a brand new clip from the one and only Nick Terry featuring my iconic, and I'm only saying that because it's written here, drunk Karen voice from Minnesote 63.

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It's so good.

Go watch it.

And if that's not enough content for you, then you should, and the crying content that I make, then you should join the fan cult at fancult.supercast.com for ad-free episodes of my favorite murder, exclusive audio and video, merch discounts, and access to our private Discord server.

Also, one last thing.

As we said, we are on tour, and there are still some gold VIP packages available that include exclusive merch bundles, a signed poster, and more.

So, check your city availability and grab tickets at myfavorite murder.com/slash live.

And thanks for doing all of that.

Yes, and more.

And caring at all about any of it.

Yeah, we appreciate you so much.

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Goodbye.

Okay.

Okay.

You're first, right?

Yes, I am.

This is...

A straight-up true crime story.

And just as a trigger warning, it includes mention of sexual assault.

It also takes place in and around one major roadway in the Pacific Northwest, Highway 20 in Oregon.

That highway cuts across the state, west to east, running from the Pacific coast to Idaho, often through very remote areas.

So this story is about six victims, all women, whose lives were either ended or torn apart on this highway.

They were all different ages and came from different walks of life.

And we know more about some of these cases than we do about others.

But what we will learn is that one psychopathic man who knew Highway 20 better than most is presumed to be responsible for what happened to all of them and potentially many more women who have gone missing in the state of Oregon.

This is the story of suspected serial killer, convicted murderer, and Oregon State highway mechanic, John Arthur Aykroyd.

Oh my God.

Marin basically got most of the research for this story from an award-winning multi-part series called Ghosts of Highway 20 produced by Oregonian journalists Noel Crombie, Dave Killen, and Beth Nakamura.

We begin in 1977 with 20-year-old Marlene Gabrielson.

Marlene is originally from Alaska.

She's a member of the Innopiak tribe, but now she lives in the town of Lebanon in northwestern Oregon with her husband and their brand new baby daughter.

So one night, the couple decides to drop their baby off with a sitter and head out to the rodeo in Sisters, Oregon, which is like an hour and a half away.

And Baron left me a note, but I think it's a note worth reading, which is that Marlene is ID'd in this research because she very intentionally and very powerfully identifies herself in the Oregonians reporting.

Wow.

Which is really amazing for what she has been through.

So at some point that evening when they're at the rodeo, Marlene decides to head home alone.

She said that she doesn't really remember the specifics here, but it seems like this happened because her and her husband got into an argument.

What we know for sure is that Marlene's husband stays behind with the car.

And she goes, and because it's the late 70s, she's like, I'll just hitchhike home.

Totally.

It's very common in the late 70s.

She's hitchhiking, and before long, a car pulls over.

And inside, a stranger introduces himself as John.

Nothing about him rings any immediate alarm bells for Marlene.

He says he's in his late 20s.

He's back in town after spending time in the Army and he works for a local welding company.

So Marlene does get a ride home from John along Highway 20 towards Lebanon as promised.

And this highway, basically at certain parts, are just long, dark, isolated stretches of road that are surrounded by dense evergreen forest.

And that's all that's out there.

And there's some old logging roads that cut off from the highway, but that's basically it.

So out in the middle of all of that, suddenly, John pulls over and violently drags Marlene out of her seat and puts a knife to her throat, threatening to kill her unless she does what he says.

He then tears her clothes off, using his blade to cut her underwear and her boots off of her.

And then he rapes her.

After the attack, he tells Marlene, quote, now what do I do with you?

Oh my God.

So she knows what this means.

He's considering killing her.

But even in these horrific circumstances, Marlene comes up with an ingenious plan.

Somehow she starts to act and very convincingly act like she's charmed by John.

And it actually works so much so, he asks her to be his girlfriend.

And of course, she says, yes, and I'll be your girlfriend as long as you take me home right now.

And he drives her home, knife still at hand.

When they get back to Lebanon, Marlene is able to get out of his car alive and go home.

Oh my God.

So the first family member she encounters when she's there is her mother-in-law.

And her mother-in-law is shocked to see the state that Marlene is in.

So she urges Marlene to get and shower and go clean herself up.

And Marlene says, no, that would wash away evidence.

I need to go straight to the hospital to get a rape kit.

Oh my God, incredible.

Yeah.

And she even gives her clothes to the police from that night with all the information that she can remember about John Arthur Aykroyd.

But it's the late 70s, so it's not surprising, but it's always heartbreaking hearing these stories.

Instead of protecting her, these investigators immediately doubt her story.

The fuck?

They cut her boots.

Yeah.

Like, what the fuck, dude?

But also, she's a Native woman.

So these are these built-in cultural excuses why people don't have to care, don't need empathy, or why they can be lazy.

And also just that that energy and attitude around rape victims at that time.

Woman at the time.

It's so bad they actually make Marlene take a polygraph and they decide she's lying about the sexual assault.

So ultimately they choose not to prosecute John Aykroyd.

And years later, Marlene will tell reporter Noel Crombie, quote, I always thought that's why these people get paid to protect you.

They care.

That's what I thought.

But they made me feel like a smelly drunken native.

So I just shrink if they had only listened to me.

⁇ End quote.

So John Aykroyd never faces any legal consequences for Marlene's brutal assaults.

Although, and this is obviously cold comfort and eye for an eye, he does get his ass kicked by Marlene's husband.

Right.

But the problem is that it's not just Marlene who suffers because of these investigators' dereliction of duty.

It will lead to deadly consequences for many other women.

Right.

Because now he knows, like, oh, I can't let them live.

Right.

Yeah.

And also that maybe it won't be that big of a deal.

Right.

Whatever I decide to do.

Totally.

So fast forward about a year and a half from Arlene's assault, and now it's late December 1978.

And John Aykroyd is employed by the state of Oregon as a highway mechanic.

So in this job, he drives up and down Highway 20, usually between Bend and Newport, helping stranded motorists, repairing equipment, clearing wrecks, and maintaining remote stretches of road.

This is literally a horror movie.

Yeah.

Like, you've been given this power and a position of trust.

Not even just trust, but like you have no other choice but to trust this person or like rely on this person.

Yes, the good faith that this person that's going to show up on a tow truck is helping you and not going to hurt you.

Totally.

Doesn't seem like it should be that much to ask.

This job also gives him unique access to and familiarity with this highway as he navigates it alone in his work work truck with little to no supervision.

So on Christmas Eve, 1978, 35-year-old Kay Turner, who's a public health manager from Eugene, is on vacation with her husband and some friends in Camp Sherman, which is about 15 miles from Sisters, which is where Marlene and her husband went to the rodeo.

Kay decides that she's going to go out for a run.

She's a serious runner.

She doesn't think twice about going and doing her workout routine.

She tells her husband she'll probably be home in about an hour.

After two hours pass and she still isn't back, her friends start searching for her.

And soon the police join them and comb the area, wondering if maybe Kay somehow got lost out in the wilderness.

And then they find some Nike running shoe prints that they think are Kay's, but there's also a large boot print there and signs of a struggle in the nearby dirt.

In stark contrast to how Marlene is treated, though, the police immediately take Kay's case very seriously.

She's a white woman.

They immediately start to interview locals, and as they do, one name keeps coming up, John Aykroyd.

He's interviewed on January 11th, 1979, a couple weeks after Kay goes missing, and he admits that he did see her running the morning of Christmas Eve.

But the police get sidetracked.

When they dig into Kay's private life, they learn that she's had extramarital affairs, so they focus on those leads, and they start scrutinizing her grieving husband.

But this is all a dead end, and John Aykroyd manages once again to not be investigated.

Eight months later, John Aykroyd reinserts himself into Kay's still active case.

One afternoon, he walks into a store in Camp Sherman where Kay went missing and claims that he's just gone hunting and found bones and a pair of jogging shorts in the woods.

He insists that these clothes must be Kay Turner's.

So when investigators arrive at the scene and they speak to John, they immediately feel like he knows more than he's letting on.

And when he's eventually polygraphed, he fails a question about whether he'd ever touched Kay, and he starts spinning a whole new theory.

Now he suddenly claims that he'd first found Kay's body back in February, two months after she went missing, and he says she was lying in the snow with her throat cut and several visible bullet wounds.

He tells police that he didn't report it then because he was afraid of becoming a suspect.

Investigators smell a rat, and finally, John Aykruit is on their radar, but they don't have any hard evidence, so they have to let him go.

12 years go by, and now it's 1990, and the investigators assigned to the Kay Turner case get a call from the Lynn County District Attorney.

So to give you a sense of location, to get to Lynn County from Camp Sherman, where Kay was last seen, it's an hour's drive west on Highway 20.

Lynn County is also where Marlene lives, and Sisters, Oregon is in nearby Deschutes County.

So all of these areas are in the same general swath of Oregon, and they're all connected by Highway 20.

So when the DA asks investigators if they've heard of a Lynn County resident named John Arthur Aykroyd, of course they say they have.

The DA then explains that John's stepdaughter, 13-year-old Roshonda Pickle, has just been reported missing.

Roshonda is a young girl.

She's playful.

She's silly.

She loves animals.

She's very close with her big brother, Byron, who's a year older than her.

Roshonda's mother, Linda, describes her as, quote, wonderful and adds, quote, you couldn't ask for anything sweeter.

But life is not safe at home for Roshonda because in the mid-80s, her mom marries John Aykroyd, believing that he's a good man, that she's providing stability for herself and her children.

Instead, John reveals himself almost immediately as violent and abusive, particularly towards his stepchildren.

Roshonda's in the fifth grade.

She starts showing up to school with clear signs of physical abuse.

She'll then confide to her friends that her stepfather is also sexually abusing her.

Roshonda tries to stay with relatives or friends as much as she can.

She's in fifth grade.

Yeah, no, that's just heartbreaking.

So she doesn't have to live under the same roof as him, and she does everything she can to avoid being alone with him.

She and Byron lean on each other during this time.

They just focus on turning 18 when they can finally escape his abuse and his household once and for all.

In July of 1990, Roshonda finally tells her biological father about this abuse she's been suffering at the hands of John.

And the biological father lives in a different part of Oregon, so he calls the mother, Linda, and threatens to get the police involved.

The next day, Roshonda vanishes.

So the police learn that John was alone with Roshonda the day she vanished, which was frightening knowing how desperately Roshonda tried to avoid ever being alone with him.

But her mom was at work.

Her brother was out of town visiting their father.

John was supposed to be fixing a snowplow at his job.

He'll later tell police that he'd taken the day off because he was waiting for parts to come in.

But according to Noel Crombie's reporting from the Oregonian, that made no sense to his supervisors because John had a lot of other work he could have been doing that day.

Right.

John claims that he invited Roshonda out into the woods to take pictures of deer.

This is a claim that baffles everyone in the family because he's never shown an interest in wildlife photography.

According to him, Roshonda turned down his offer and stayed behind at the house.

And when he returned later that day after going to take pictures of deer by himself, she was gone.

Of course, there's a ton of immediate suspicion around John.

And while under interrogation, the mask begins to slip.

He offers up a bizarre theory about a stranger coming to the door and abducting Roshonda, saying almost casually, quote, 87 pounds is nothing for somebody to carry.

You hit him over the head and they have no fight.

Oh my God, how fucking chilling like to be in that interrogation room and hear that.

Yeah.

And just knowing it's like, that's the thing that I think is amazing because psychopaths work very hard to be smart, but they always think they're the smartest people in the room.

And it's that when you watch, you know, any true crime show, you see what bad liars they are.

Yeah, not even bad liars, like they think too, that like this, the person they're telling this thing that, you know, they think is totally normal to, but like to hear that, like that.

If you're not a psychopath, hearing that is fucking chilling.

It's chilling.

And then also, if you're not that person talking, like, and you clearly this is, you're saying one thing,

but what's actually coming through is, oh my God, you know how much she weighs.

You picked her up.

You know how to.

You're giving yourself away and you don't realize it.

The red flag of him knowing his stepdaughter's exact body weight is raised even higher when John tells investigators, unprompted, that on the night Rashonda disappeared, he and Linda had great sex.

Ew.

Yeah.

As Noel Crombie reports, this is, quote, significant because they almost never had sex.

Ackroyd's low libido was the source of such open conflict that Linda's teenage son, Byron, knew of their troubles.

Oh,

not healthy, not okay.

No.

Most disturbingly, though, John seems fixated on describing his stepdaughter's body in sexualized terms to the fucking police.

Dude, he's so

can't control it.

No.

He even tells officers her exact bra size at one point.

Oh my God.

And when he's eventually shown a pair of pants that police find in the woods and believe are Roshondas, he becomes sexually aroused in front of them.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Yeah, just a complete animal.

Like, that's the most, I, wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I never heard it.

It's like, well, we're going to take a little break

when everyone else is going to be able to do that.

So we can go wash our fucking hands.

Leech bath.

But again, the evidence against John Ackrod is entirely circumstantial, so they have to let him go.

No, no, no.

The police are doing everything they can to build the strongest case they can against him, not only in Roshonda's case, but in Kay's, which is now picking up steam after being cold for several years.

And that's because investigators on Kay's case are going back through the case file and they are looking for new avenues to explore.

And when they do that, they find the name Roger Dale Beck.

Now, Roger was close friends with John Aykroyd, and he claimed to be with him the day that Kay was reported missing.

And Roger's then-wife, Pam, provided their alibi for that morning, but police never looked into Roger's potential involvement in Kay's murder until now.

So as they dig, police finally find the lead they've been waiting for.

They learn from members of Roger's own family that on different occasions, he'd bragged about raping and killing a jogger back in the late 70s.

Yeah.

To who?

I mean, for real.

Like,

can you imagine casually having beers with a friend or an acquaintance and them fucking like what?

Oh my God.

Like, this is psychotic.

Well, and it's also like, can we get a little perspective here where it's like everything that people called political correctness in like the 90s was trying to correct shit like this, where it's like, hey, if your bro brags about raping and killing someone,

I don't know, make a phone call.

Yeah.

Pick up that phone call.

No, he likes to brag about things.

He makes sororities.

He's still my very best friend.

Like, what the fuck?

Insane.

So when investigators try to reconfirm Roger and John's alibi for the day Kay went missing, Roger's now ex-wife, Pam, completely falls apart and tells them she lied.

Both men had actually come home covered in blood on Christmas Eve of 1978.

Roger made her burn his clothes, destroy his brand new boots, and threatened her into covering for him.

I'm sure he was terrifying.

Yeah.

Like the terror of that.

And then what are you going to

do?

Stand up?

Right.

He'll know it was you.

Right.

I mean, they just.

So now it's May 1992.

This is two years after Roshonda goes missing.

She still hasn't been found, but investigators working Kay Turner's disappearance have managed to put together a really strong case, and there is a sense that John Aykroyd could be charged at any moment.

But before the authorities can close in, two more young women from the same area in Oregon go missing.

They are 17-year-old Melissa Sanders from Sweet Home, Oregon, and 19-year-old Sheila Swanson of Lebanon.

So Melissa and Sheila disappeared during a family camping trip with the Sanders family to the Oregon coast town of Newport.

They were together.

And the family was there too.

The girls share a tent that night, but early the next morning, when Melissa's family wakes up, they find both girls are gone.

At first, their families think they hitchhiked home because Melissa and Sheila did sometimes spend days away from their families.

They're, you know, in their late teens.

And they'd actually even called their respective boyfriends to tell them they were going to leave the family camping trip.

But when days pass with no sign of either of them, they're reported missing.

Weeks later, in June of 1992, John Arthur Aykroyd is finally arrested for the murder of Kay Turner.

Roger Dale Beck, his presumed accomplice in Kay's murder, is also arrested.

This is 14 years after Kay went missing from Camp Sherman, back in 1978, and 15 years since John's first known act of sexual violence against women, which was when Marlene was sexually assaulted in 77.

Imagine like being their families, or Marlene in this case, and waiting that long to even have movement in your, like, I just.

But also waiting that long, knowing that this monster is just walking around,

which is such a cliche.

But when you think about the fact of it, where it's like...

Yeah, it's not like it's not like an, we don't know who it is.

We, we haven't found, you know, a suspect yet.

It's like it is clearly to everyone, this fucking person.

It's this person and his fucking friend.

Yeah.

Like it's horrifying.

So

right out of the gate, what police wonder if John knew he was about to get arrested and decided decided to kill more women while he still had the chance.

But when he's pressed about Melissa and Sheila's disappearances, he doesn't admit anything.

Several months later, in October of 1992, hunters find Melissa and Sheila's bodies in the woods outside Eddyville, Oregon, off Highway 20, about 20 miles from the campsite in Newport where the girls were.

At the scene, police discover a rivet, which is something a mechanic might have, but they don't have much else to go on.

Eventually, Melissa and Sheila's case goes cold.

So the year after John's arrest in 1993, he's tried for the murder of Kay Turner.

The case against him is largely circumstantial, but prosecutors lean into a few key pieces of evidence.

Kay's Time X watch, her clothes, and her skeletal remains.

So the watch is important because it stopped ticking the morning she disappeared, and it's presumed it stopped working at the time of the attack.

It was broken.

This gives police a pretty strong sense of the exact time she was killed, which that timeframe dovetails with when John told police he had spoken with her.

He told them that.

Yeah.

Didn't he find her body too?

He claims to have, yeah.

On top of that, forensic testing shows that Kay's clothes had been cut off, which calls back to the MO of Marlene Gabrielson's assault.

Which they didn't fucking believe happened.

So much suffering

with that kind of, just because of an ego move.

Totally, but don't worry, it's just women who are suffering.

They just, yeah, that's right.

So, prosecutors also have John's own words, which are damning in and of themselves, because John did tell police he found Kay's body two months after she was killed.

He thought she looked like she'd been slashed and shot.

The prosecution hammers home that he could not have known these things, given how badly the body had been decomposed, unless he was the man that killed her.

The jury deliberates for four hours and comes back and convicts John Aykroyd on two counts of aggravated murder and three counts of murder.

His accomplice, Roger Dale Beck, is also convicted.

Again, this is one conviction when John Aykroyd is suspected of many crimes against women.

Still, it's a huge victory for the investigators who work to get him off the streets.

One of those investigators is a man named Bill Hanlon, who championed Kay's case and is arguably the man who secured John Aykroyd's conviction.

And he will later tell the Oregonian:

it saved women's lives.

If he had stayed out, if he had never been convicted, he and maybe Beck would have done more crimes and killed more women for sure.

He managed to get through that whole thing without ever getting caught, not because he was all that smart, but because he slipped through.

End quote.

Here's my edit to that line,

but because the police didn't do their jobs.

Fast forward to 2010.

At this point, John has served nearly two decades in prison and he's eligible for parole soon.

I mean, 20 years.

So because of that, detectives dig back into Rashonda's disappearance with renewed vigor.

They're hoping they can create a strong enough case to bring charges and ensure John stays in prison for the rest of his life.

But when they press him for information on Roshonda, he doesn't give anything up.

Meanwhile, cold case investigators are also looking at the 1992 double murder of Melissa Sanders and Sheila Swanson.

And in 2012, they pieced together information that had inexplicably gone overlooked in the 90s, probably because of sloppy police work.

They learn that John Aykroyd was was a regular at a 24-hour restaurant called Sherry's, which was frequented by local teens.

And he had earned the nickname the Perv because of how creepy he was about all those teenage patrons of Sherry's restaurant.

Among those patrons were Melissa and Sheila, who John had been seen interacting with at the restaurant.

So witnesses come forward and tell police that they saw two teens hitchhiking and entering a state truck that matched the description of John's work vehicle.

And the rivet found near the scene is determined to match the kind commonly carried by the highway workers.

Most damningly, one of John's coworkers will later report seeing John covered in blood around the exact time the girls go missing.

At first, his coworker dismissed it because John said he hit a deer with his truck and got bloody, clearing out the remains.

So the whole incident goes unreported.

But John never admits to any involvement in Melissa and Sheila's deaths.

And because of that, there's still a lot we don't know about what happened to them.

But the theory is that after talking with them at Sherry's, John knew the girls were camping at the coast that weekend and probably lied and say he'd be in the area if they wanted to get a ride home from him.

They could just let him know.

And clearly they took him up on that offer.

As investigators continue working Melissa and Sheila's case, there's movement in Roshonda's case.

In 2013, 23 years after she was last seen alive, John Agroyd pleads no contest to Roshonda Pickle's murder.

This means that he neither admits nor denies having anything to do with her death.

And in exchange for this no contest plea, which effectively closes Roshonda's case, he agrees to never pursue being paroled.

Wow.

Like a literal deal with the devil.

Yeah.

The plea is sealed for a long time, so we still don't know the details on why he does this, but it means he'll live the rest of his life behind bars.

It just feels so like this little girl was not important enough to pursue justice.

It's like, let's use this as a throwaway bargaining chip, but unfortunately, it's the best possible

because everything's been so fucked, it's the best possible, you know, resolution.

Yeah, and it's not, it's a bargaining chip, but it's not a throwaway because it actually works.

Right.

So there is that.

But yes, the idea that he is not in some way forced to tell that

where her body is, where

what he did to her.

Yeah.

The answers for both Melissa and Sheila just don't have to be given.

And they've just been completely discarded by society.

It's just horrifying.

It feels like that whole metric needs to be readjusted to not like, what do we do just to keep him behind bars?

Because we have to do whatever it takes.

And it's like, no, just do whatever it takes to actually get the information out of him.

Just a few years later, in December 2016, John Arthur Aykroyd dies in prison at age 67, taking many secrets, you know, presumably,

including the location of his own stepdaughter's body to the grave.

So, today investigators suspect that John Arthur Aykroyd might be behind other unsolved cases in Oregon, many of which involve remains found near Highway 20.

Right.

This includes the 1976 cold case involving a victim found near the highway who was only known at the time as Swamp Mountain Jane Doe for decades because of where she was found.

Just days before this recording in September of 2025, police have announced genetic genealogy has now identified this person as Marion McHorder.

Holy shit.

So they just figured out who this Jane Doe was.

Oh my God, chills.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So for the families of his victims, the wounds will never heal.

Roshonda Pickle's beloved brother, Byron, never stopped fighting for justice for his little sister.

He keeps her memory alive by telling his children about Aunt Jani, which was her nickname, and he has a tattoo of her on his arm.

Byron.

Sheila's brother Bart Swanson has also been her biggest advocate over the years, helping to keep interest in her case alive.

And he tells the Oregonian that he sometimes visits the location where her body was found, saying, quote, I go up there to, you know, pretty much remind myself that I still haven't let it go and to let her know that I haven't let it go.

Marlene Gabrielson has had to live with the trauma of being sexually assaulted and not being believed by the people who were supposed to fight for her after her attack.

She tells the Oregonian, quote, I figured it was because I was nothing.

I wasn't ever going to amount to anything.

I was brown and I was ugly.

So, you know, you're not going to amount to anything.

You don't think you are.

I think that's why I cowered so much back then.

My first thought when I read that message, and she means from Noel Crombie's, the reporter that reached out to her, was, why would she care?

Because that's the whole mindset that I've had about this thing from the gate.

But that's what made me come because there was somebody who actually cared.

This makes me feel really good because there's a reason I am here.

And I guess I am not that ugly and I'm not worthless.

I'm Marlene K.

Gabrielson.

I'm Inupiak.

I'm a strong woman.

Oh my fucking God.

And that's the story of the investigation into John Arthur Aykroyd and those cases linked to Highway 20.

It's these, when everyone is just in the media, like, why do women love true crime so much?

It's so like, what's wrong with you that you're interested?

And it's like, because this is how little we have mattered for so fucking long.

If you think it's that different now,

then you're not paying attention.

Then please log on to any website and check out what our bodily autonomy status is.

Because we're interested because we care.

Can you imagine caring that much?

But also we're interested because it's about us.

And especially, like in Marlene's case, the more marginalized you are, the more you're affected and the less people help you.

So, we as white women care and get upset, but it's like, but as you go and you're more marginalized and you're less represented and you're less empowered, people care less and less.

Totally.

Until people literally are like, oh, you came here to report a rape, and we're going to fucking polygraph you.

Right.

Your throwaway.

Bullshit.

Like, we have to care 10 times as much because we're cared about as women 10 times less.

Well, and also it's like, guess what?

Women are 50% of the fucking population, if not 51.

So our caring is like, everybody can just stop asking that question.

Yeah.

Just accept the fact that women are concerned and care, and it's about themselves as much as it's about other women because we have to for each other.

Right.

That's the idea.

Exactly.

We're the targets.

Wow.

I don't want to do my story now because it is so different from that.

Well, great job.

Thank you.

What do you mean?

This is what we do.

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We got balloons for God's sake.

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Goodbye.

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Goodbye.

Okay.

You know, changing it up is what we're all about.

Yeah, great job.

Thank you.

It was an incredible story I'd never heard before, and I'm shocked and horrified.

I mean, it's so horrifying.

I really liked, you know, our producer Molly suggested like just doing straight up true crime for a 500th.

Yeah.

And just, you know, like a classic and Marin did an amazing job.

Yeah, that was incredible.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, mine is not

just, well, mine is true crime, really.

Oh, yeah?

Yeah.

You know what it is?

Because we're going to start in Sherman Oaks or Beverly Hills, depending on who's fucking arguing about zip codes.

Do people in Sherman Oaks think they in any any way live in Beverly Hills?

No, but there's like a weird zip code dispute going on that we're not getting into.

I'm going to get into it myself.

Okay, we're in Sherman Oaks, technically, at 5 a.m.

on the morning of December 20th, 2008.

Remember 2008?

I do.

A very innocent time.

Yeah.

Very stupid.

A security guard in the gated community of the Mulholland Estates has just realized that something is amiss at one of the mansions in the neighborhood.

When the the guard gets to the front door, he sees that it's opened.

No one appears to be in the house, but he can tell the house has been ransacked.

He calls the police, and once they arrive, it becomes clear that burglars have taken a whopping $2 million

worth of jewelry and watches from this estate.

In today's money, that $2 million

would be.

You said it was 2008?

So that was 20, a little less than 20 years ago.

Yeah.

$2 mil?

In today's money.

3.5?

3, but great job.

I mean, I don't know.

That was so close.

Yeah, that was great.

Police look at surveillance footage, which shows what appears to be a man in a sweatshirt, you know, who's the burglar, and they say the person seems to know the house well.

What police do not know yet is that this burglar is not a professional who's been casing the joint.

And also, the mansion doesn't belong to just any old person.

It's Paris Hilton's home.

Oh, and it's been hit three times before

by this same group of burglars.

The bling ring.

That's right, Karen.

That's why I was like, I can't do this now.

It's literally called the bling ring.

Yes.

No, this is what we like.

It's a, we do hot and cold, yin and yang, back and forth.

Yes.

The full scope of life.

We're a fucking paradox.

This group, mostly teenagers, would go on to burglarize their homes of celebrities for close to a year before finally being caught.

This is a story about obsession with celebrity and status, but maybe also a story about how our teenage selves aren't necessarily the people we are forever, but our mistakes sure are.

This is the story of the bling ring.

The bling ring.

Did you ever watch the documentary about it?

No, I just watched the movie movie.

Okay, got it.

Well, the main sources for the story is a Vanity Fair article that was written by a woman named Nancy Jo Sales called The Suspects War Louis Buffons.

And that was the basis for the Sophia Coppola movie, The Bling Ring.

And there's also a 2023 HBO HBO documentary called The Ringleader.

And then another documentary that I watch called The Real Bling Ring, Hollywood Heist.

And then also a short-lived e-reality show called Pretty Wild.

And the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes.

This movie, when I saw it, it's like that kind of thing where you, I don't like thinking about other people's family sometimes because I'm like, it's just very Irish Catholic for me, but I'm like, they're not doing it right.

It's not how you're supposed to do it.

And you think like the teenagers were raised wrong or what?

Yes.

Leslie Mann plays this moment and she's like, she's amazing.

You don't need to say more about what Leslie Mann played because I fucking know who she, you know what I mean?

But there's a part where she's like, she doesn't care if the girls go to school.

She just wants them to work on their affirmation manifestation.

More than ever, you're literally talking about, I know who you're talking about.

And I watched a little bit of like the reality stuff and I felt the same way about her.

You just like get the stomachache of like, oh no.

It's either they don't have a chance in the world or the world doesn't have a chance against people like this.

Totally.

Yeah, it very much made me go, wow, I'm so glad I don't have teenage daughters.

Like, I just,

yeah, I love that Leslie Mann played the mom.

Okay.

She's really good.

She's so good.

Okay.

To understand the bling ring, we really have to go back to the celebrity media landscape of the early 2000s because it is so fucking different than it is now.

And thank God there's like kind of a reckoning happening, but it was so trashy and so awful and so insidious and so, you know, damaging to our psyche back then.

Yes.

For sure.

Horrifying.

Right.

So, like, at this time in the early 2000s, Us Magazine goes from being a monthly, industry-focused magazine to being a weekly magazine focusing squarely on celebrities.

So, actually, Sophia Coppola cites this as the inciting incident that fomented the culture that resulted in the robberies because of this magazine.

That makes sense.

The magazine, and most, the ones that quickly copied it was full of paparazzi photos of celebrities, some of them actual movie stars some of them reality stars some people whose names you know but you're you're not even sure why like this is when Paris Hilton became famous for just being Paris Hilton and which you know launched just so many just celebrities who were just They didn't really do any, it wasn't like they were talents.

It wasn't like, oh my God, what a great actor.

Now I want to see them at the gas station.

No, it was just fame.

Which also meant to a lot of younger people that they could possibly do that as well.

Absolutely.

You know what I mean?

Like Like, there was an opportunity just to be famous for being famous.

Yeah.

That was simultaneous with like American Idol kind of TV shows where literally it was just like, you can.

Yeah.

You can go stand in line out in front of CBS and see if you can.

Totally.

I remember getting a job in the late 90s writing those.

They used to do like basically fashion police.

I think it was called Fashion Police.

And it was just like they would show a picture of a celebrity with a fucked up outfit on.

And then there was all these commentators.

I remember just tearing them apart.

And I did it.

I did it like for three different times.

I think I did it.

Yeah.

And you would write like each celebrity picture they'd give you, you had to write like five jokes.

So they'd pick one from.

I remember this.

And the only place you could go was mean and meaner and meaner.

And I remember on the third one, I went, what the fuck am I doing?

And then I just didn't turn it in and I never got asked to do it again.

Where I was like, this is not like, yes, it's good to have $150,

but like, what the fuck is this for?

Well, that's exactly it.

Cause I was also going to say they did things like, who wore it better?

Yeah.

Where they'd show a photo of two women always wearing the same outfit and then tear one of them apart and say the other one looked amazing.

Yeah.

You couldn't choose both being, like, looking great.

No.

Who wore it better?

There was stars without makeup and then there was best and worst beach bodies.

It was so toxic.

It was just,

it just, you know, created a generation of women with eating disorders, myself included.

Entirely.

And it's the launching pad for the Facebook's hot or not

world where women absolutely were primed to be like, oh, wait, I guess I either need to figure out if I'm hot or not and then try to get hot so that I'm hot or not.

Otherwise, I don't have worth at all.

It was everything.

Yes.

And so, yeah, there's this frothing paparazzi culture who is just making so much money off of this.

That's what it was like.

And it's in this environment in 2006 that a girl named Rachel Lee and Nick Prugo first find each other as sophomores at Indian Hills High School, which caters to kids who have struggled in more traditional schools in Calabasas.

Rich juvy kids.

Rich kids who can't, yeah.

I mean, essentially, I went to one of those schools in Irvine, you know what I mean?

Which, like, it was called SELF.

And it was the like, you hate school and you're not doing well and your family doesn't force you to go to school.

So this is what you have to do now to get like get to graduate.

Oh, so it was like the alternate school where PE was ping pong.

So I'm pretty good at ping pong now.

I only went there for like a semester and went back to regular school because I was just like, I gotta, this, I have to do something with my life.

Yeah.

But it was, yeah, it was all the kids.

Basically it was any kid in this affluent neighborhood that had broken families.

Wow.

Like really, that's all we had in common and became friends is because none of us had supervision.

We were neglected.

We didn't have the money that everyone else had.

And so we didn't really give a shit about school.

Yeah.

And we were fucking teased there.

We were made fun of there.

We were like, I didn't want to go there.

I was out.

I was a total outcast.

So why would I go?

Instead, you go to self where people are actually nice to you.

And you get to play some ping-pong.

Some fucking hardcore ping pong.

Yeah.

So I get it.

And also, I became, eventually, when I was like in my early 20s, I was a lunch lady in the valley at one of these schools myself for elementary through high school.

And these were the sweetest, most wonderful kids who couldn't hack it in the LAUSD school system in the valley.

And I'm telling you, more than half of them were living in group homes.

So it wasn't, these were not bad kids.

Yeah.

They just didn't have the resources that everyone else had.

Yeah, or the support.

And also, it's weird because there are some kids who have nothing but resources.

Right.

And it's not a good thing.

No.

Yeah.

It's also where I met Uncrustables

because the kids loved them.

And I was like, I'm going to try this.

Yeah.

I Lived off of them.

Okay.

So enough about me and Uncrustables.

So this girl, Rachel Lee, and Nick Prugo, they meet each other at this school and they both have issues getting along with their families.

Rachel had been kicked out of Calabasas High School for stealing something from another girl.

And Nick was kicked out of Calabasas High School as well for excessive absences, which is like the fact that you're just like punished for that instead of like what's going on in his life that this, that he's not coming to school

is so horrifying to me.

Yeah, it's like, so basically, there's clearly a lack of support.

Right.

And you're a child and you're being held responsible for the fact that you that no one will get you to school.

There's no follow-through.

Yeah.

Like maybe you have some, you know, and also he had been a troubled kid.

He had been diagnosed with ADHD.

So he probably wasn't taken care of the way he needed to be.

Yeah.

You know?

So I just, these kids, I feel for them.

So Nick and Rachel, they feel like outsiders and then they meet each other and just fall immediately in friendship love.

Nick is gay during a time when the average high schooler hears gay slurs multiple times a day.

It was very casual then.

Rachel's Korean and has always felt out of place in her majority white town.

And it's at a time when the beauty standard is blindingly white and being beautiful is seen as a teenager's highest duty.

So it's really depressing for them.

They're both very into fashion and celebrities and the very luxury brand focused aesthetic of the era.

You remember Jisuko Tori, you had a whole wardrobe.

My whole ass was covered in that brand.

But also, I think there's, you know,

especially in the valley.

Yeah.

I mean, that's like the valley in Beverly Hills.

Totally.

That's the center of like materialistic kind of like, here's what anybody cares about.

Like, what kind of car do you drive?

And it's aspirational.

You could easily become part of that world if you play your cards right.

Yeah.

You know, as Rachel will put it many years later, quote, I felt this insatiable energy to have as much as I could have, but that was kind of the energy back then, end quote.

And so Rachel and Nick quickly form a deep, all-consuming friendship.

Remember those fucking friendships from high school that were so amazing?

They're always talking or texting or IMing each other, and they just find this like kindred spirit in each other.

So sometime in 2007, Nick and Rachel start burglarizing homes.

I just, I don't know why.

Like I feel for them and I feel like, by the grace of God, there goes moi.

You know, not burglarizing, just doing really fucking stupid shit

in a time when stupid shit sticks to you.

Permanent records.

Exactly.

Early 90s, you can't track my shit.

But hold on.

How did they get to that?

Okay.

Because here's what happens.

It's kind of brilliant.

They find out that a classmate is going to be out of town with their family.

It's a rich as fuck family.

And so they go there when they know no one's going to be home and they break in.

At this classmate's house, they find a box with thousands of dollars of cash in it.

It's originally reported as $8,000, but it gets bandied about.

Maybe it was over $20,000.

And today's money, it could have been worth about $40,000, but they find it and they take it and they go on a shopping spree on Rodeo Drive with it.

And I fucking get this thing of like, how come everyone?

I, because I used to shoplift when I was a kid.

I will say that right now.

You can't fucking come get me or come fucking get me if you want, but I wasn't, I was underage.

I used to shoplift and it was this this feeling of like, I deserve this.

Everyone else in my affluent community has everything they want.

I get made fun of for not, I fucking deserve this, which clearly isn't true, but I was a child.

So that made absolute sense to me that like, it'll solve the problem.

Yeah, like this is how I get mine too.

So I get that.

I wrote about it in our book.

So they do that hit and then they take up this hobby that they call checking cars.

And so they basically just walk by luxury cars in their neighborhood and see if the doors are unlocked.

Lock your fucking doors, right?

Like, as we always say, when they find one that is open, they plunder it for cash and credit cards and then go on more shopping trips with this.

By their senior year of high school, the fall of 2008, they hatch a plan to start robbing celebrities' houses and decide they're going to start with Paris Hilton.

Why not?

Yeah.

It's so easy for them to do this.

They find a subscription-based website that lists celebrity home addresses on it.

And then they go to Google Earth to kind of map out the house, like see routes to get into the house.

And then they go on social media and like TMZ

and see the celebrity themselves saying, I'm in a visa.

I'm in New York filming this thing.

I'm going to be out tonight at this fucking bar.

And so they just know when the celebrity is going to be out of town.

They know where they live.

They know how to get in.

Yeah.

They can track it all.

Thank you, Us magazine.

Yeah, it's creepily easy for them to do this.

The innocent days of the early internet.

Right.

So they study TMZ and Paris Hill and social media and know she's going to be out of town for a few days in October.

They look at her gated community on Google Earth and they find a hill in the back of the house where they think they can get onto the property without being noticed.

And it works.

When they approach the front door of Paris's 8,000 square foot Mediterranean style mansion, they find a key under the mat.

That's how safe she feels.

in her community.

Also, she doesn't have a house sitter.

I know.

I know.

Just a richy-rich person that doesn't just have someone there?

I don't think they think about it then.

I guess they didn't.

They do now.

They didn't have to.

Right.

When we go out of town at all for touring, my friend stays at our house.

Not just because we have pets, but because I don't want to leave a home completely unattended.

There's never not someone at my house.

Yeah, we get it.

We get it.

No one can rob you.

They find a key under the mat and they let themselves in.

On this first visit, they kind of just explore her house.

They go into the nightclub room.

Like, this is a very wealthy woman.

Then they do, I think they do this brilliant, not brilliant, they do this very smart thing where they fish through all of her purses because she has hundreds of beautiful purses and she goes out all the time.

And so there's just crumpled bills in every purse from all her nights out.

That's really smart.

Hundreds and hundreds and 50s that they just, she just crams back in her purse, puts her purse back on.

Eventually she'll grab it again.

And you know, like she doesn't care that there are all these watted up dollars.

She is literally filthy rich.

Exactly.

So they take all of those.

They say they take a lot of Coke.

Like they find, you know, baggies of Coke in the purses, but we're like, we don't, that's allegedly.

We don't want Paris Hilton, who's the victim of this crime.

We don't want to be like.

saying that she's a fucking Cokehead.

Seems like they were careful to make it not totally obvious that someone had been there.

Like, so she, I don't know if she knew at first.

She has a nightclub room.

She noticed.

Exactly.

So they take little things like a bottle of grey goose on the way out, that sort of thing.

They return to to Paris' house two more times that fall, and they also start bringing some of their other friends and associates into the scheme, which is a bad idea.

It feels a little less like a scheme, though, and more like the way teens like to break into abandoned buildings.

They're just kind of trying their luck in a way.

And they're so unaware of the consequences that your stupid fucking actions as a teenager will bring.

Especially when what's really taking up most of your attention is

can I get a Chanel purse?

Can I get a label fill-in-the-blank blank.

And I'm not good enough unless I have those things.

Absolutely.

Part of this includes stealing many thousands of dollars worth of clothing and jewelry for them to wear.

Like they just want to dress the part.

In the expanded group, there are some other kids from their school, some friends of friends.

It kind of becomes this like unorganized group of people who are all doing this together.

And there are a couple older adults, though.

This includes a man named Roy Lopez Jr., whom one of the group knows from her job at a restaurant, and a man named Johnny Ajar, who goes by your favorite name ever.

Johnny Dangerous.

Johnny Dangerous.

You had the first part right.

Well, yeah.

Well, because his name is Johnny.

Yeah.

Johnny Dangerous.

That is ridiculous.

Yeah.

And what's Johnny Dangerous's deal?

You're going to be shocked to hear this.

Okay.

He's a Hollywood promoter.

What?

I don't think everyone who doesn't live in LA knows like promoters, Hollywood nightclub promoters, especially back in the early 2000s and like late 90s, were just this like breed of dude.

Toothpick dudes.

Oh, they were like slimy, but they could probably get you into the club for sure, especially if you were underage.

Slimy, but not unattractive.

Yes.

Kind of, there's a charisma there, but also.

Because they're like businessmen.

Yes, they are.

Or they're like marketing people.

I told you about that.

This is one of my favorite memories, and I'm going to try to do it quickly.

I was turning, remember the old DMV that used to be off of Vine above between Sunset and Hollywood?

And there's like a DMV there.

I'd always go there because there was rarely a line.

So I was driving in that neighborhood and I was taking a right-hand turn in my old car.

Simultaneously, there was this dude taking a left.

So our cars were passing and

we were passing each other and he was super good looking, but he was like shaved head.

Yeah.

Very clean cut.

Like

well, this guy was like super tan and he had a v-neck silk shirt that was open, like

way open

down here.

And he had a big necklace and he had like a big ring.

He had a toothpick in his mouth.

And I was just like, and I'm just staring at him because I was like, who is this guy?

Like as we're passing each other.

And he just very slowly puts his arm out the window and points at me.

So as we're passing, he just like does one of those as we go by.

Oh my God, like acknowledging your existence.

And I was like.

I love the idea of like this.

He looked like a nightclub owner or a promoter.

Promoter.

It's a totally different thing.

And I'm like his nerdy comic girlfriend.

Yeah.

Like it was this idea of like how hilarious, but then he'd also like give me Coke.

Can you absolutely give you Coke?

He'd get you into Ledue, which is the nightclub at the time.

Like seriously, so Johnny Dangerous was a promoter for the Hollywood nightclub, Ledue.

Remember Ledue?

Ledux?

Ledux?

Ledue.

Ledue.

I remember it, but I don't know what it looked like.

It was on the hills all the time.

Like, that's where they all went to or worked or whatever.

So it was a big deal.

And he'd get these underage kids who are not famous people into Ledue.

He was the promoter, the big Hollywood promoter.

It feels like a lost, the culture is being lost.

I'm sure it's still there.

We could go to Hollywood right now and meet four promoters within 20 minutes.

And we'd be like, hey, and they'd be like, I can't see you.

You're over

25.

No.

You're a mom.

You're not invited.

Yeah, there's no MILFs.

Okay.

So Roy, the other guy, is actually the one captured on security footage in the December Paris Hilton burglary.

And that ends up being the one to first be publicized.

Johnny Dangerous mostly acts as a fence, like buying the stolen goods to sell them because the the kids can't, are they going to go into a pawn shop with Paris Hilton's fucking like heirloom family jewelry and sell it on the market?

No.

I just thought about Paris Hilton coming home from Ibiza or whatever it is and being like, hey, I put $8,000 in this purse.

Sure.

Wait a second.

Did Nikki borrow this purse?

And then Nick later says, sweet Nick, he says, quote, he gave us $5,000 for like 10 Rolexes, which I guess is a ripoff now that I think about it.

And quote, how much is a Rolex worth?

$50,000, aren't they?

Like, so 10 Rolexes, these, like, that just shows how naive and young they are.

He was like, here's $5,000.

And they're like, oh, my God.

Thank you so much.

That's so incredible.

Yeah, exactly.

It's a bit muddy regarding like when each of the members of the Bling Ring get involved.

It's very loose.

It's clear that.

There's no official history.

Yeah, you're not going to believe it.

It's clear that the network expands quickly between Rachel and Nick's first burglary in October and the fourth one in December, since Rachel and Nick didn't actually really even know the guy Roy, the one who was in the security footage.

It's almost like...

Some guy heard about it too.

Yeah, so it's not actually a group.

And then the burglaries continue over the course of the entire school year and into the summer with various members of this group, but always Rachel and Nick.

So they kind of are the ringleaders, I guess you could say.

Yeah.

In February of that year, Rachel and Nick robbed the home of Adrina Patridge, one of the stars of the hills.

Adrina Partridge.

It says Patridge in everything I've read, and I always thought it was Partridge.

It is Partridge.

I think it's Patridge.

What was she on?

The Hills.

The Hills.

Have eyes.

Iconic TV show, The Hills.

Heard of it?

I did.

I watched the shit out of it.

Literally until I read this research by Allie, I would have said Partridge.

And then I saw that.

I saw it in the Vanity Fair article.

It's spelled Patridge.

By the way, I want to leave all of this in.

And Audrina, if you're a murderino, we are so sorry.

I wouldn't dare edit it out.

Thank you, Molly.

It's clearly gold.

And she says, quote, they took bags and bags of stuff.

They took my great-grandma's jewelry, my passport, my laptop, jeans made to fit my body to perfect shape, which like, can I get that done?

I didn't know that was a thing you could do.

No, you can't.

The answer is no.

Damn it.

The estimated value of her stolen property was $43,000.

But more than that, she is terrified from this.

And I think I've never think fucking God had a break-in, but I think the sense of security that you lose when that happens is just psychologically so fucked up, especially from a reality star.

Like, she's not, you know, a movie star that agreed to this life.

I mean, she did because she's a reality star.

She was like in high school when she agreed to it.

Yeah.

Is she the one that lived in that very glass boxy house that was up above Sunset down by like Sunset Junction?

I don't know.

How do you know that?

Because I remember,

I spent a lot of time in the house.

Oh, I know that boxy house.

And I remember them, the video with the guy with the like a hooded sweatshirt and people jumping over the fence.

Yes, totally.

Yeah.

And it's like, that's when I realized, like, oh, that's right.

You're totally exposed if people know where you live.

Right, exactly.

Actually, and she shares the footage of this robbery right away with the police and the media.

And it's pretty clear.

You can see Nick and Rachel in it, but nothing comes of that until later.

So the group hits Rachel Bilson's house in May from the OC.

They have a trend clearly.

Right, Rachel Bilson's from the OC, right?

Yeah.

I think so.

I'm from literally the OC, and I don't remember where this is from.

Then in July, they hit Orlando Bloom's house, mostly because his girlfriend at the time is Miranda Kerr and she has really fucking good clothes.

Well, they hit his house.

That night, they allegedly steal $500,000 in Rolex watches, allegedly, which is probably two Rolex watches.

Yeah, exactly.

Louis Vuitton luggage, artwork.

I mean, it seems like they just have all the time in the world in these houses and they take advantage of it.

And also all the choices in the world, because this is like rich people

like like having too much money and collecting stuff.

And not having security.

Yeah.

You know?

Or a house sitter.

A house sitter, security, a fucking dog, a Rottweiler with niages taped to it, like anything.

Plants that someone has to come and water twice a day.

Like something.

The Orlando Bloom Robbery is where 18-year-old Alexis Nyers claims she comes into the story.

And she's the daughter of the like secret manifestation mother.

Yes.

So she claims this when she comes into the story, she says she's a drag-along.

And it's like, I don't know, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly.

I mean, if there's a group of kids that are going around robbing celebrities' houses, you're going to want to tell all the kids at school that you're out in front and you're the leader of the game.

And once you get caught, you're going to be like, I barely even understood what was happening.

Exactly.

And I do think, sorry, but I do think that I remember them trying to turn that story with the Audreena Partridge break-in because they were talking about how scared she was, where it's like, the times I've i've sat at my house in the middle of the night with the dogs barking thinking someone is breaking into my house and it is the scariest thing yeah and of course it was raccoons or whatever but like a horrible threat a horrible thing to go to even if you're not home that means someone actually did it and was there a violation of someone walking through this place that's like your sanctuary that you created especially when you're a famous person to get away from all of that and it's not safe and nothing's safe and they've taken your grandma's jewelry like i totally horrible can't imagine.

But then, yeah, it's cute when you know it's these teenagers that are being rebels.

Yeah, well, she initially was like, I couldn't believe it when I saw the footage because I figured, like, I was also terrified that it was these like big, scary men.

Yeah.

It wasn't, but it was still confusing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So Alexis, this 18-year-old, had known Nick and Rachel from Indian Hills High School, but she had dropped out to pursue modeling.

And she's at the time being homeschooled by her mother, Andrea, Leslie Mann.

That's her boss.

Specifically, Andrea says she is basing her curriculum around the movie, not the book, The Secret.

Yeah.

The family believes firmly in the law of attraction and frequently says, quote, and so it is.

Wow.

That's their like, hey, I want to be famous.

And so it is, which is so culty.

Isn't it culty?

I mean, it's so LA.

It's so, and because sometimes it works.

And it's like,

sometimes it works.

And if you're delusional enough and to believe that's why.

Petite and hot enough, I guess.

And then think you earned it because you did that and they didn't.

And it's like, well, you should, yeah, it's just

petite and hot enough.

And you live in the, what are those apartments, the Oakwoods?

Yeah.

And you just like, all you want is to make it.

Yeah.

Whatever that means.

God.

There's no negative in making it.

That's the idea.

It's like, there's no like, you can't do anything bad if it results in you making it because it was worth it.

Yes.

No matter what.

Is it?

Alexis' best friend is a 19-year-old named Tess Taylor, and she lives in the house as well.

Andrea treats her like another daughter.

And then they're the ones who end up having that reality show, Pretty Wild, for a short time.

The way it's presented on the reality show, Alexis and Taylor are very focused on becoming famous.

And Andrea, the mother, is even more focused on this, Leslie Mann.

And it appears that Alexis is raised in a family that prioritizes fame and proximity to fame over everything else.

And we know this because it's all chronicled on Pretty Wild, which starts filming at the time because

they are following Alexis and Tess's life as little hellracers in the Los Angeles club scene, like going to Ledoux.

They're looking for the new parasites.

Exactly.

Nikki.

No, that's her sister.

Nicole Richie.

Yes.

So it's about that at first, about their attempts at going to modeling editions and becoming famous, but it doesn't turn into that.

But back to the summer over the summer, all the kids in the Bling Ring are pretty blatant with their spoils.

They are photographed in celebrities' clothes on their social media with like fucking Rolexes and shit.

So stupid.

I know.

I know they brag pretty openly about it among their peers.

One day, Rachel and Nick and possibly others spread out a blanket on Venice Beach and start selling stolen goods from celebrities' houses.

Like they cry for help.

Are teenagers doing dumbass teenage shit, which is why I'm so glad I'll never have a teenage child.

Just a nephew that I can be like the cool aunt to.

Yeah, that's right.

So then at the end of July, TMZ re-ups the security footage footage from the burglary back in February at Audrina P's house.

For some reason, she had shared it back when it happened, but for some reason, now people are more interested in it.

And Nick and Rachel are pretty identifiable in its footage you've seen.

Like they really barely try to cover their faces at all.

They have like hoodies on, and that's kind of it.

So friends are calling them about it.

Rachel decides to move in with her father, who's an accountant and professional gambler who lives in Vegas, to have like a low profile.

But she cannot resist the pull to do that one last job.

Oh, no.

So classic.

Like, you're done.

You're in a different state.

Go fucking.

You got out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Go be a, what's it called?

Dealer.

Yes.

Not a drug dealer.

If you couldn't, if you're not watching this on YouTube, I was doing cards, not drugs.

She was doing poker dealer gestures.

One night in August, one of the members of the ring, we're not sure who calls Rachel and says, quote, let's go steal.

End quote.

The intended target is Lindsay Lohan, who pretty much is the white whale for any fashion-loving teenage burglar in the mid-2000s.

Like, she's the famous of the famous.

And the party, the most like big party girl, too.

She's a big party girl.

Also, she, I think I read, and this is alleged, so don't hold against me, but there was a lot of stories about her taking clothing, really expensive clothing.

From sets.

Yes, and from places where she, I think she had probably this, she was famous and had been since she was a child.

Yeah.

And she kind of had the same disease, it sounds like.

It's like entitlement disease.

Yeah.

Rachel makes the four-hour drive to Los Angeles in order to participate in that.

She's like, don't go, wait for me, here I come.

So that happens.

And then very shortly after this, the walls start closing in.

Several people anonymously tip the police about the members of the Bling Ring because they fucking know them from Calabasas fucking high school or whatever.

Yeah.

And one of them probably like the boy she liked loved them.

And then she's like, you know, dropping a dime on your nose.

Totally.

Alexis Nyer, as it turns out, is one of the anonymous tipsters, which is weird because she is actually part of the group.

Even though she insists that she didn't know what was happening and didn't participate.

In September, Nick Prugo is arrested based on one of these tips.

And he basically, he's a child.

He confesses to not just everything,

but everything and stuff the cops don't even know is related to the bling ring.

Like, that's how sweet and innocent he is.

He's just like, yes, it was me.

Here's what we did.

I didn't know it was illegal, or whatever it is.

This includes a burglary from 90210 actor Brian Austin Green's house, which they broke into because he was dating Megan Fox, who's so fucking well-dressed at the time.

But the thieves also wind up stealing a handgun from him,

which is like scary.

Nick turns in tons of stolen watches and jewelry and is photographed for his mug shot.

And in the mug shot, he's wearing one of Orlando Bloom's t-shirts.

Jesus.

Like they're just children.

I'm not saying that any of this is okay.

But they got away with it.

I mean, like, there's a part of it that's kind of delightful.

Totally, totally.

Nick calls Rachel after his publicized arrest.

And even though rationally, she knows he got arrested.

And she's probably like, I shouldn't talk to him when he's calling me.

I bet this is being recorded.

But she talks to him anyways.

And Nick casually says to her, hey, remind me what your dad's address is in Vegas where you're staying.

Moments later, the police bang on her door and find her.

They search her house and find, you know, a bunch of stuff, including a nude personal photo of Paris Hilton that they had stolen which is pretty shitty oh yeah you know yeah when alexis's warrant is why doesn't paris hilton have a safe a hundred percent she's from the richest of the rich yeah like isn't there some sort of internal protocol with these people yeah i mean the kilgara family version of that is my dad had a big bowl that he used to put his spare change in and then we would go steal change out of the bowl my sister had one of those like children's lock boxes that all you had to do was like find the opening and it you know and then i'd go buy like fucking

pieces exactly in quarters yeah My dad would be like, quit stealing my quarters and quit putting them in them.

It's literally called the stealing place.

Yeah.

Okay.

When Alexis' warrant is served, the e-cameras are rolling and her arrest winds up in the pilot of Pretty Wild.

So suddenly, like, thank fucking God we gave this girl the reality show.

We have all of this.

It's so cringe to watch.

Like, I watched another scene and it's just cringe.

The rest of the series follows her preparation for trial.

While searching the house, police find one of Rachel Bilson's purses, among other things.

At this point, the fact that this rash of well-publicized Hollywood burglaries has been committed by a ring of teenagers from the valley has become in itself this hugely sensational story.

No one can get enough of it.

Vanity Fair writer Nancy Jo Sales covers the story mostly from Alexis's perspective as she navigates her court dates and notes that the family seems to be simultaneously treating her arrest like the scary problem it is, but also an opportunity to become famous and really lapping up the attention.

I mean, they manifested it.

Yeah,

at the time, too, like all of those starlets had DUIs, and all it did was make them more famous.

Yes, it was really like you were saying, that it's weird because paparazzi, although I know they still exist, it's not the same as it was back then.

No, where everything was being driven by that

it was out of control.

Yeah, the article goes on to be adapted into Sofia Coppola's 2013 movie, The Bling Ring, which is one of Karen's favorites.

That's number one.

That That and Atonement.

That's what you cry on a plane, too, is the Bling Ring.

Why aren't these children so amoral?

Alexis pleads no contest and is sentenced to 180 days in the county jail, and she winds up serving 30 days.

Nick also spends this time giving lots of interviews and doing lots of television news appearances.

At the same time, Rachel, the, you know, Nick and Rachel, Rachel is saying nothing.

Her mom is a lawyer.

Yes.

And so she almost isn't part of the public narrative anymore, which is so smart in that like way of don't fucking say shit and no one will care.

Yes.

It'll go away.

Yes.

Which is so true.

The consequence of that is that in the cultural narrative, she is portrayed by all the other kids.

as the ringleader.

They're able to point to her and she's not denying it.

So everyone goes with it.

The way she tells the story now is that it was more of a filet adieu type situation where she and Nick had a shared compulsion to steal.

And justify to each other.

Yeah.

Like we're doing it.

It's fun.

It's funny.

It's, I mean, I'm sure it was fucking thrilling.

Oh, my God.

So fucking fun.

Like, the stories that they tell about it was.

And then you have eight grand in cash in your pocket.

Like, now I get to do, you're right.

I get to have whatever lipstick I want.

And the purest Coke you've ever fucking smelled in your life.

At the trial, many of the celebrity victims testify.

The prosecution builds their case around the sense of violation and fear that they felt to have their homes broken into as opposed to the actual material losses.

Because hopefully, they were all insured too.

They were.

They were, for sure.

That's why there was no security.

Ultimately, all the members of the Bling Ring who are charged together plead no contest.

Nick and Rachel get the stiffest sentences.

Nick is sentenced to two years in prison and Rachel to four, and both serve about a year before being released on probation.

Everyone else winds up getting probation, and this is partially because an LAPD cop, who is a major figure in the investigation, is just as enamored with celebrity as the kids are he consults on the sofia coppola film while the cases are still pending creating a big conflict of interest that lessens everyone else's sentences so it's not just teenagers you know what makes me think of is i want to rewatch la confidential yes such a good movie it's such a good movie but that whole part with the now reviled kevin spacey but yeah that whole thing is so la it's like there are totally different rules here totally and it is really acclimated to beauty and money and like, and this achievement thing.

Status and fame.

But so it's like, yeah, the cops, you cannot get a cop to show up anywhere for any reason in most of LA, but you will see 25 of them standing around a set if they're shooting on Melrose.

Totally.

And I mean, that's just how you just learn that.

It's like, that's just how it works here.

Totally.

Yeah.

That's so true.

Such a weird town.

It's so weird.

When Rachel does get out of prison, she moves back in with her mom and stepdad to to a bedroom with a mattress on the floor and a small box of belongings.

I mean, she's got some stories to tell, though, for the rest of her life.

That's right.

She says she remembers thinking, quote, this is all that I need in the world.

Like, she was just...

Just so happy to be home.

Yeah, and done with the whole thing because getting caught up in it, you know?

Yes.

All of the members of the Blue Ring now lead pretty quiet lives.

Rachel is a hairstylist.

It's unclear what Nick does professionally, but he's not clamoring for publicity.

Alexis, though, is the kind of the only one who still maintains an Instagram presence.

So maybe she's still looking for that elusive fame.

If I was getting my hair cut and my hairdresser was like, I actually was the leader of the bling ring, I would be overjoyed in ways that.

Where does she work?

Because I, I'll leave my beloved hairdresser for her immediately.

Sorry, Marissa, but like, it's the leader of the bling ring.

That's a great way to spend three hours of like, and then what did you do with that watch?

Don't ask me about what I'm watching on TV right now.

Tell me everything about your fucking incredible life, Rachel.

Fascinating.

And that is the story for our 500th episode of The Bling Ring.

Genius.

Genius.

That was great.

All props to Molly and Allie for suggesting this story.

And I was like, I don't know.

It's kind of vapid.

And Dom, like, is Karen doing a really good truth crime?

I'll only do this if like it would like legitimately it's a good episode.

And they were like, it fucking is.

You have to be like, Molly's like, trust me, trust me.

I'm like, all right, fine, I'll do the fucking bling ring.

Well, you know, it's interesting you say that now because that's what I was going to say at the beginning: it's our 500th episode.

And from Stephen Ray Morris all by himself on the floor of your apartment to this incredible staff of almost 40 people that we now have at exactly right.

Like, we would be nowhere and we could not have done it.

And we certainly couldn't have done it to the degree that we have done it

without all these people that we work with.

So, for our own team, thank you.

Molly and Liana and Aristotle and just everybody every week that makes this this podcast possible.

Thank you all so much because, you know, that's not the two of us.

It's in the least.

And now there's like, there's two other podcasts that go along with this podcast, and there's video, and it's just like we have team after team, and people after people that really work their ass off.

It works despite us, not because of us.

So I disagree.

No, no, it just is like, it's just such a big old thing.

It's very exciting after 10 years and 500 episodes.

10 years and and 500.

That's so wild.

Yeah, the way it's grown.

It's crazy.

We really fucking bling ring this, the podcasting industry, didn't we?

What we did was we checked the podcast industry's doors.

A couple of them were unlocked.

That's right.

And we broke in.

We stole some grey goose.

We went through their shit.

And we fucking...

They don't need this $40,000 in cash.

Yes, but what a joy.

And of course, to the listeners, to the Murderinos, to our fucking people.

Obviously, this couldn't have happened without you, but you've made it into this incredible thing that we could never, ever tell you how grateful we are for the lives that we get to lead now because of you guys listening to this podcast.

And thinking that we're your best friends.

Yeah, because we are.

Because we are.

We'll fucking run you down on the street to honk at you.

That's right.

We will stick our whole arm and perhaps our head out the window to make sure you know that we see you.

And we appreciate it.

Our lives 500 episodes ago.

They were very, very different.

They were very different.

It really is a beautiful place to be.

So thank you guys so fucking much.

Yes, it's magical.

Stay sexy.

And don't get murdered.

Goodbye.

Elvis, do you want a cookie?

This has been an exactly right production.

Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Wally Smith.

Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

This episode was mixed by Liana Squalachi.

Our researchers are Maren McGlashen and Allie Elkin.

Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com.

Follow the show on Instagram at myfavoritemurder.

Listen to my favorite murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And now you can watch us on Exactly Right's YouTube page.

While you're there, please like and subscribe.

Goodbye.

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Goodbye.