505 - Brief Recess

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Speaker 2 Hello,

Speaker 2 and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hardstar.
That's Karen Kilgaraff.

Speaker 1 And today we have two very impressive guests on the show. He is an immigration and criminal defense attorney who you might know from TikTok.

Speaker 1 She is a senior leader in the nonprofit world and a self-professed, frustrated writer, fledgling wedding efficient, and curly hair activist.

Speaker 2 Correct. And they're here

Speaker 2 to talk about their brand new legal podcast, which debuts in Mere Days days here on Exactly Right Network.

Speaker 2 Please welcome all the way from New York City, the hosts of brief recess, Michael Foote and Melissa Malbranch. Hi.

Speaker 2 Hi, everyone.

Speaker 2 Big RV, the wig comes off. Just

Speaker 2 and here we go. Yeah.
Hi. Thank you for having us.

Speaker 3 We're so excited to be here, really.

Speaker 2 We're huge. Thrilled to have you.

Speaker 1 Thrilled to have you.

Speaker 1 In a time like this, I think we should go back to the ketamine conversation.

Speaker 2 We were just a child. Ketamine Karen, we've been calling her.

Speaker 2 Ketamine Karen, she's in the studio. She's on it right now.

Speaker 2 We're going to do the first live podcast, ketamine trading.

Speaker 2 I actually grew up with horses, so it is a very apt conversation. It's a horse tranquilizer that humans have, you know, appropriated.
Yeah, like they do for everything, right?

Speaker 2 That's true. Horse appropriation.
Give it to the white man in the room to be like, let's talk about appropriation.

Speaker 2 Let's talk about

Speaker 2 horse culture, reappropriating it for my club, my circuit party.

Speaker 1 For your club nights.

Speaker 2 Yeah. No, ketamine therapy is what I've been doing, and it's incredible.
It's helped with like deep anxiety, I think. Like I used to get really bad panic attacks.

Speaker 2 It just sort of like shifted the way I sort of like perceive myself when I'm like experiencing anxiety.

Speaker 2 Do you get anxiety? You're always like the cool, calm, collected one.

Speaker 3 I will say that historically, I have not had anxiety, but perimenopause, that bitch.

Speaker 3 Let me tell you something. And since,

Speaker 2 really, and since then,

Speaker 3 my anxiety is ridiculous. And it's about anything.
It could be about anything, about nothing, right? And I was actually going through my text messages looking for something.

Speaker 3 And I found a thread between my cousin and I where I was saying to her that I had just come back from my gynecologist who said to me, I think you're in perimenopause. In 2017,

Speaker 2 I am still there. You're not on on anything? Oh,

Speaker 2 yes.

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 2 I got my patch.

Speaker 3 I got my patch, but I'm not on ketame.

Speaker 2 Not on ketamine.

Speaker 3 I am on the patch, but I'm not on ketamine. And I feel like the anxiety is such that it can almost paralyze you.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 3 I've been there. And I think for me, what was so surprising is that I didn't know what was happening to me.

Speaker 2 So I just thought I was going crazy. Right.
No, I remember when you and I were connecting a couple years ago when this was starting to happen.

Speaker 2 And you were like, I actually think I'm going insane.

Speaker 2 Well, they didn't talk about it in 2017. It's just now that we're finding out.

Speaker 3 It's a huge explosion. And I remember, you know, I went to my mom and I was just like, did you have this? No.
Yep.

Speaker 2 Same thing. My mom.
My mom never had it. Turns out.
No. Never had it.

Speaker 1 They just got hot every once in a while. Other than that, it wasn't.

Speaker 2 But I can tell you. Can we turn the air on? I'm sorry.
Can we get the air on? No.

Speaker 2 Actually,

Speaker 2 it's so hot. But

Speaker 3 interestingly, I remember when my mom, I didn't know what it was at the time. Yes.
But I remember there was this period of time where I felt like my mother was going insane.

Speaker 3 And I remember saying that to my dad, I think something's wrong with mom. And he was like, like what?

Speaker 2 And I was like, I don't know. I'm a child.

Speaker 3 I wasn't, I was in my 20s, but like, she was acting so crazy. And she, in hindsight, I'm realizing, was having panic attacks, was having anxiety.
It's when her claustrophobia really sort of exploded.

Speaker 3 She couldn't.

Speaker 2 She had copy flashes. Like, you can't explain that to someone who won't get them, that it does feel like claustrophobia a little bit.

Speaker 2 Like, you're just, you need to take off all of your clothes now and you're angry about it. Yes.

Speaker 2 Also, very angry.

Speaker 2 I've been there. I'm not going through menopause, but I have angrily wanted to rip my clothes off.

Speaker 3 I can remember one day, like coming off of the subway, going into the office and feeling like I was going to die.

Speaker 3 I went into the ladies' room, I took off all my clothes and pressed my back up against.

Speaker 2 I swear to God, I'm pressing my back up against the stainless steel door.

Speaker 3 It felt so good because the heat is coming from inside the house.

Speaker 2 Yeah. It's hurt.
It's like what they say. It's too high.
It's totally.

Speaker 1 You just can't control it in any way. Nope.
And it is a surprise.

Speaker 1 The thing that's driving me crazy is now on TikTok, the big thing where they're talking about, oh, in women's medicine, they've never done any research about the way A, B, C, D.

Speaker 1 So this idea that now in 2025, we're suddenly talking about periamenopause and menopause is a disgrace. It's

Speaker 2 insane. Yeah.
Well, historically, they would just be like, oh, you're crazy.

Speaker 2 Why don't you just not be crazy?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I had read this thing where they were talking about,

Speaker 3 so fucked up, but like burning witches at the stake.

Speaker 3 And the women were usually like in their 40s.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So

Speaker 3 I mean, again, I don't, I don't know.

Speaker 2 I mean, it was, but I mean, that fits. But it fits, right?

Speaker 3 And it makes that you're like, okay, that's what it is.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
I know, I think about my mom too. And like, she had to get on, you know, antidepressants and anti-anxiety.
And yeah, it was probably just hormones. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But they didn't check that back then.

Speaker 2 melissa called me one day and she was like i honestly am so filled with rage i think i don't know if this is attorney client confidentiality that i'm preaching right now

Speaker 3 but i wanted to she was like i actually am concerned about what i might do to someone like i am so angry and like i mean i don't know if this is sort of related but a little bit so a few months ago do you remember this a few months ago i was getting off the subway and i talked about this on the show we talked about this on our podcast i accidentally stepped on the back of someone's foot and I said, oh, excuse me.

Speaker 3 This man turned around and he kicked me.

Speaker 3 Wait, that's not even the worst part.

Speaker 2 And I was the first call. It was like, okay, assault on the subway.

Speaker 2 Let's file a suit.

Speaker 3 But like, that was a part of it that,

Speaker 2 like, that is not who I am. I don't kick people.

Speaker 3 But I kicked this man back and this other man behind me came. He was like, no, no, no.
No, no, I didn't kick him too.

Speaker 2 very gently touched me in the back and was like don't do this and i was like he kicked me oh what an angel that person i know let's just

Speaker 3 shake it i was so enraged and i feel like

Speaker 3 that has never been me before no right and i don't know if taraji henson was on somebody's podcast and she said that she really feels that we are born with a certain amount of fucks to give.

Speaker 2 And by the time you get

Speaker 3 to your 50s, you are out of fucks.

Speaker 2 I am 53 years old.

Speaker 3 I am negative fucks again.

Speaker 1 So keep your feet to yourself.

Speaker 2 You're going to lose a toe, bitch. Watch out.

Speaker 3 And I'm willing to go down. Like it's weird.

Speaker 2 Instant, instant voice.

Speaker 2 What level of violence can you enact on someone who just kicked you without getting

Speaker 2 okay so under tort law, you have a duty breach causation and harm. So you have a duty to behave a certain way in society.
Okay.

Speaker 2 If there is a breach, such as someone kicks you, then that duty's been breached. It has to be the causation.
You have to cause someone's harm. So the harm is usually damages.
So in this situation,

Speaker 2 the harm sounds mostly.

Speaker 2 emotional, I think, is what we can ascertain. So I would say that it probably wouldn't pass the sniff test for a tort,

Speaker 2 a civil suit. And I think usually it's there's some sort of documented medical issue.

Speaker 2 Either way, with her, her side or that man's side. It depends on the state.
So this was in New York. So it depends contributory negligence.

Speaker 2 So if you were someone who contributed to the other person's harm and they harmed you as well, it kind of like cancels out in some cases.

Speaker 2 So it sometimes comes out in the wash.

Speaker 1 So what did her flat tire and then the kick wash?

Speaker 2 I need to know. Flat tire is technically not

Speaker 2 harm and damaging.

Speaker 3 They also apologize, right?

Speaker 2 Like it wasn't just like, I was like no that was you were at zero

Speaker 3 that was a curable yeah we cured the other thing I will say is that to be fair neither one of us had any power behind the kick

Speaker 3 I feel like the kick was symbolic

Speaker 2 my best friend in high school and I really didn't mean it like so I didn't hurt her it just came out yeah he didn't hurt me and I didn't hurt him I think I was just I was so offended yes I was offended symbolic kick yes well also to go from okay, a slight accident

Speaker 2 to, okay, intentional harm. Yeah, right.
Violence. Violence.
That's a crazy choice. That is a wild decision.

Speaker 3 New York City in the morning on a commute.

Speaker 2 It's happened to all of us. Yes, right?

Speaker 1 It's like

Speaker 1 a stress-like.

Speaker 2 Get over it.

Speaker 1 But in these trying times,

Speaker 1 are you seeing this? Is this a thing that's like an escalating thing where the normal interaction would have been no problem from that guy? Yes. But now everyone is under this insane.
I will say,

Speaker 3 do you think this? I feel like we are still not okay from the pandemic.

Speaker 2 I was just going to bring up this pandemic. We just kind of walked out of it.
She was like, yeah, we were like, okay, back to work, Divas.

Speaker 2 Like we weren't like, oh, we should all probably go to therapy. That was trauma.
That was traumatic.

Speaker 3 It was really traumatizing, right? I mean, we were stuck inside the house and it felt like, and it's easy, I think, to look back on and be like, okay, we made it out relatively okay, right?

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 in the very beginning, it felt like the zombie apocalypse was upon us, right?

Speaker 2 It was very scary.

Speaker 2 Pizza delivery was going to kill us. Like, that's the thing we've been doing.
We all thought we were going to die.

Speaker 1 We were wiping down cereal boxes.

Speaker 2 Yes, leaving the mail outside, right?

Speaker 3 Like, you know, it was, it was, and, you know, and it didn't help that the commander-in-chief at the time, whatever how you feel.

Speaker 3 in the very beginning did not take it seriously enough and was and there were a lot of people that we thought we could trust who were saying it's like getting a cold yeah is it yeah yeah do we know ventilators I know.

Speaker 2 Right, exactly. So, I remember when we were watching Italy, we were like, oh, and it was, we were watching what was happening.
With the bodies like stacked up in

Speaker 2 Brazil, it was awful. And in New York, there were choppers overhead 24-7.
So it was like living in

Speaker 2 a saving private Ryan situation.

Speaker 3 The streets were so empty, and it was bizarre. And I also think what's interesting, like, you also saw that, like, wildlife came back around, right? Like,

Speaker 2 burgers, pizza wrapped in the city. Burger,

Speaker 2 cleaner because

Speaker 2 as you can see. You were drinking from the East River.

Speaker 2 It was a beautiful time. It was.

Speaker 3 It was a magical time, right?

Speaker 1 I've never seen out my front window. I have a beautiful view of the valley, and it was crystal clear.
I could see so far that I was like, what is that mountain over there?

Speaker 2 I've never seen that.

Speaker 3 Right. So, I mean, it just shows you, like, we are the problem.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 Human beings are the problem.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's us. Whether it's on the subway or up or the view.

Speaker 2 It's all of it. We are the problem.
It's true. Oh, my God.
How are you guys going to solve that problem on your podcast? Yeah. So anyway, yes, we actually have a 10-step plan.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And it starts with me.

Speaker 2 10 toes down, kicking people on the subway.

Speaker 2 That is the whole plan.

Speaker 2 But yeah, so we're excited about this show. I mean, we actually are approaching a lot of these issues on the podcast.

Speaker 2 For the people who maybe know me from the internet, maybe they don't, everything I do, there has to be a a this is what you can do button on the end of it. I don't want any more doom scrolling.

Speaker 2 I don't want any more think pieces about fascism. It's not interesting to me.
It is depressing, speaking of ketamine, and it's just not something I'm interested in consuming anymore.

Speaker 2 And I just feel there's like this.

Speaker 2 I'm not a journalist, but I am like a citizen who has at least some knowledge of what folks can do to flex their democratic muscles, to combat what's going on in this country.

Speaker 2 I do a lot of work with immigration advocacy.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 a lot of what I do is like, okay, this is literally what you can do from your sofa right now, if this is pissing you off, if this is bothering you.

Speaker 2 So we don't cover any fucking story that doesn't have something at the end where it's like, this is what you can do if you didn't like this and you want to do something. It's a teaching moment.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 and like, not like a like didactic educational, like sit down and eat your vegetables situation. It's like, no, we're going to talk to this congressman.

Speaker 2 And I think in the first episode, we talked to a congressman. Yeah.
And I'm like, dude, what is the literal to-do list of what you are doing to fix this? It's overwhelming because very long.

Speaker 2 Especially on social media. It's like, no, that person was wrong.
You have to do this. No, this person is wrong.
You have to do that. This is, you know, and it's just, you don't know where to start.

Speaker 3 And I think the great thing is that because Michael is an attorney, he sort of understands the law. I am not, though.
So I feel like maybe I can represent like most people in the audience, right?

Speaker 3 So I'll ask him a question. I'm like, okay, that's great for you as an attorney to go in and help one person.
What can I do?

Speaker 2 What can I do?

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 2 I think a lot of us

Speaker 3 have grown weary of hearing this advice of like, well, write your congressman. All right.

Speaker 2 Sure, yes.

Speaker 2 What the fuck is known?

Speaker 2 What is this? The fucking Victorian

Speaker 2 letter. Write a letter.
You're a 19th century writer. Write a sternly worded

Speaker 2 missive, right?

Speaker 3 Right, like what can I actually

Speaker 3 do, right? As somebody, as a layperson, you know, somebody who has sort of average resources, right? And like, I don't have a huge social media presence, but what can I do?

Speaker 3 What are the conversations that I could have with people? And I think, you know, at the end, we're all looking for hope, right?

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 3 real hope, not like Airy Fairy.

Speaker 2 Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 Like, I hate, like, I hate that. Like, well, you could just sort of like, I love my family very much, but like.

Speaker 3 Yeah, no, no, no, you have to say it, right? But like, a lot of the times, and if you are, if we're on, we have WhatsApp groups, and I think this is like a very sort of immigrant sort of situation.

Speaker 3 There's a family WhatsApp group.

Speaker 2 Melissa's family is from Haiti. From Haiti.

Speaker 3 And they are big prayers, right? They love to pray. They love a good saint.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 3 I think what I get really frustrated at is like, you know, God is in charge. That's great.
Yeah. That's great.
If you are a believer, not everybody is, and that's also okay.

Speaker 3 But what can I do?

Speaker 2 We also have like non-deities in charge too who have responsibilities.

Speaker 2 In the meantime, because it seems like there's like kind of a disconnect, the internet connection isn't great between us and like, you know, duty. Right.

Speaker 2 So like in the meantime, in the meantime, our dialogue is getting God's broadcast. Correct.

Speaker 3 What can we actually do? What is, you know, what is one thing that I can do, right? Like an individual thing.

Speaker 2 That's how I mean the podcast kind of came together was because Melissa and I would sort of get together and we'd be like, what are we, what is going on? What can we do?

Speaker 2 And we would kind of talk about it, especially around like the Black Lives Matter movement. We were sort of figuring out like, and those were the dark days of the pandemic.

Speaker 2 It was that first year.

Speaker 2 What can we do? How can we be safe? How can we, what can we do if we get arrested? What happens if something goes down at a protest? Like, people were getting beaten in the streets for no reason.

Speaker 2 Right, right, right. So we were kind of looking at each other as just as dear friends.
Right.

Speaker 2 What do we do? What do we do? How do we help?

Speaker 2 So that was really like when we came into this show, we were like, all right, that is the governing principle. That is our guiding light.

Speaker 2 I love that because it's like when two people who agree completely talk, it's like, now turn to us. And that's a podcast.

Speaker 2 Exactly. It's like, we love to retrieve them together.
Let's fucking

Speaker 2 talk to each other about it.

Speaker 1 It makes me think, though, about, you know, the amazing No Kings protests.

Speaker 1 But then, of course, like the two, three days later, what you start to hear on social media is like, protests don't do anything.

Speaker 2 Right. Marches don't do anything.
What do they do?

Speaker 1 And it's like, just as a person who isn't, you know i grew up in the 80s and 90s where political action was not cool it was like you don't talk about that that's for those people that went to like the student un or whatever and like everybody else needs to be rock and roll and you're watching you know, the fall of democracy kind of in front of you.

Speaker 1 And me seeing that where I'm like, that feels like a bad faith voice that's now in here when clearly that was powerful and huge.

Speaker 1 And then

Speaker 1 you see the ICE raids and you see these people being taken and the rest of the community just coming right up and around and then they walk away. And I'm like, that's what it does.

Speaker 2 That's what it does.

Speaker 2 And that is the best part about it, right?

Speaker 2 I mean, my husband and I, we go, we take the dog for a walk every night and we have like a debrief. We do like our daily sort of like debrief.
Love it.

Speaker 1 Isn't one of those dogs on your shirt?

Speaker 2 Jack.

Speaker 3 Jack is a bad dog. Jack is a bad dog.

Speaker 2 Jack is a very bad dog. Dylan, he's wanted in all 50 states.
Yeah,

Speaker 2 sexual offender, Megan's Law, just humping strangers and dogs on the street. Like, he is a wild animal.
He is a rescue. He lives with two men for a reason because he can't handle any other situation.

Speaker 2 And he's 13,

Speaker 2 losing his mind, dementia. Yeah.
Yeah. Just watching.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Oh, yeah.
He's like, he's starting to sunset at night. He just starts.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 I love him. Yeah, of course he does.
He's becoming even more adorable and endearing as he just becomes like this crusty goblin and is just like

Speaker 2 wandering around the house late at night.

Speaker 2 I have a senile cat and she screams. Mimi.
Mimi.

Speaker 2 Screams.

Speaker 3 Just for me. How old is Mimi? She's like 16.

Speaker 2 Okay. And she's going through it.
And people keep giving us cat nip toys shaped in knives, like bloody knives and axes. So she carries a bloody knife around the house.
She's screaming. I don't know.

Speaker 2 Sorry, this is not here or there. This is actually.

Speaker 2 She's pitching you her new horror movie. It's coming from inside the house.

Speaker 2 I know. I know.

Speaker 1 The irony of being killed by a cat so sad.

Speaker 2 I'd kind of be okay with that.

Speaker 2 That's actually, that's probably in Final Destination 3D or something. Yeah, like the cat comes out of nowhere.

Speaker 2 We go on these walks and we sort of debrief. Like, and we were talking about the new king's protest.
And I was like, Brad, like, what did it do? Like, why is this important?

Speaker 2 And like, he's like much more emotionally stable than I am. And he was like, think about like the impression that made on everyone.
not not the president. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Everyone else in an elected position in government saw this outcry, saw all these people coming out. And when you're looking at that crowd as an elected official, who isn't in the White House?

Speaker 2 You're seeing the people who are going to vote or not. Correct.

Speaker 2 That is the real power of something like that. Interesting.
That's, yeah. What else does protesting do?

Speaker 2 That sounds so dorky, but like, I really want to know because I'm scared to go out in big crowds like that. And like, what's going to happen?

Speaker 2 Is it smart to like, you know, get in the middle of an ICE raid? Is it smart to like, what should you do if you see that?

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's a really good question. I asked that question too.

Speaker 3 What do I do if ICE comes into my neighborhood? What do I do if ICE comes to my workplace? What can I do?

Speaker 3 I mean, there's a part of me that feels like if they're in my neighborhood, I'm going to go out and just start yelling,

Speaker 3 immigration is here. Don't open your doors.
Don't open your doors. Immigration.
I feel safe doing that.

Speaker 2 ACLU currently has a lawsuit up against this administration, against ICE, because they are arresting American citizens now and they're being held in detention centers, which is a clear violation of so many constitutional laws.

Speaker 3 Did you see that when they tried to

Speaker 2 yelling, I'm from the Bronx? No, Brooklyn. The guy from Brooklyn,

Speaker 2 I'm from Brooklyn. Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 The New Yorker in me, my heart just opened up. And he was just like, suck my dick.

Speaker 2 I love it.

Speaker 2 That's great. That and the girl in the polka dot dress who just

Speaker 2 with a double middle finger. Love her.
For me, I'm just like, I mean, I always think know thyself is like the governing principle in everything I do. It's like, okay, I know I'm a white man.

Speaker 2 I'm usually in a suit and a tie. I'm usually at like an immigration courthouse.
I am going to be the person who's in the middle. Like that is how I need to like exercise that privilege.

Speaker 2 You can stand up. Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2 I get incredible privileges in life being a white man in a suit who has an education. I can walk right past security guards into any building or business in New York City.

Speaker 2 Security doesn't follow me around stores. Okay, I get all these like fun privileges.
When I get pulled over, nothing weird happens.

Speaker 2 Okay, what can I do to help those people who don't have those same privileges, right? So how can I intervene in that adversarial situation where someone's getting arrested? How can we?

Speaker 2 Like, how can that people like us? Yeah. So thinking a lot about like, depending on the situation, like I can't advise people to break the law because I'll lose my life.

Speaker 2 Do it.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 But I mean, definitely attending protests, definitely contacting. It depends on the situation too, right?

Speaker 2 I mean, there's this incredible image on TikTok of like a young girl in like a Pilates outfit with an iced coffee sitting down in front of a car that has migrants in it.

Speaker 2 It's just sitting in front of a car that's trying to drive away. Wow.
People who've been to the city.

Speaker 3 I think you...

Speaker 3 you figure out what your comfort level is, right? And then maybe, and as time goes by, maybe you push it a little bit, right? So, you know, I think I said this on our show, right?

Speaker 3 I was talking to somebody and I'm like, you know, if somebody says something in front of you that is like clearly racist or xenophobic and they think it's a joke, my favorite thing to do is to make that person feel uncomfortable, right?

Speaker 2 Oh my God, this is the Melissa does this and she is an absolute fucking person. Oh, tell us

Speaker 3 like somebody's, and I'm just like, oh, wait, I don't understand. Like,

Speaker 2 turn it around to me.

Speaker 3 I don't understand why that's.

Speaker 2 Someone will be like, well, because, you know, you know, they're, you know. They're black or they're gay.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, you whisper it. And whisper it.
You might be gay. And Melissa will be like,

Speaker 2 what?

Speaker 2 Sorry, I couldn't hear you. What was it? What was it?

Speaker 3 I don't understand.

Speaker 3 Wait, so it's funny because of that. And then eventually,

Speaker 3 the person is just like frozen. And they're just like, oh, no.
I mean, so you.

Speaker 2 Someone at one point was like, Melissa, because they're, you know,

Speaker 2 touching their hand. Their skin,

Speaker 2 dry skin.

Speaker 2 And I was like, Melissa. Yes.
And I was messed.

Speaker 3 And then like blank, blank, blank, blank. Like when you're, and frankly, the audacity, right, of somebody to

Speaker 3 come up to me, a black woman, and be like, because, and this person was not a black person or a person of color. And they were just like, because, you know, what?

Speaker 3 And I was like, what are you saying? Now, I didn't feel like, again, I'm not somebody who kicks people, right?

Speaker 2 So I did not turn a different story about that. As her attorney, I'm going to have to put a halt to the questioning.

Speaker 3 But if you are not somebody who is sort of naturally aggressive, right? Or you're not somebody who likes to sort of cause a scene. You do it in the space where you are, right?

Speaker 3 So I made this person explain to me what it was that they were trying to do.

Speaker 3 And then there is something, and maybe this is me just being petty patty, but there's something that I find invigorating about watching the person deflate in that way.

Speaker 2 You are not allowed to do that in front of me.

Speaker 3 You know, there was somebody that I knew who they had asked a question about whether or not the person was Indian. And this person said,

Speaker 3 this person said, dot, not feather.

Speaker 3 Excuse me.

Speaker 2 We took great umbrage.

Speaker 2 And so again,

Speaker 2 what is it, the 90s?

Speaker 3 Explain to me what it is that you're trying to say here.

Speaker 2 And let people sit in that discomfort. I mean, that's what we do in Cornwall.
Make all the people.

Speaker 3 uncomfortable until they are squirming.

Speaker 2 And hopefully,

Speaker 3 without being preachy right if that's not who you are yeah

Speaker 3 hopefully you've turned that into some kind of a teachable moment yeah right so like the same person this person was deeply problematic but you know

Speaker 3 we were talking about getting mexican for lunch and they said oh you're going to home depot what

Speaker 2 fire

Speaker 3 gotta go bring them in here we're gonna enter i think i think a lot of us have sometimes people like that in our lives who think that they could say things like that and that they can get away with it.

Speaker 3 If you are not somebody who is confrontational, there is a way to turn that into a teachable moment. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Right. That's kind of what your podcast is going to be doing.
I can't wait to see you guys interview people who don't agree with you. Oh, I am.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Very few people agree with them.

Speaker 3 And I am, I'm actually, I'm actually really interested because of the rage, the rage problem that I have. Am I going to be able to like.

Speaker 2 Perfect timing for a podcast.

Speaker 3 Am I going to do, what was the name of that woman from The Housewives who threw up the table?

Speaker 2 Is that Leanne?

Speaker 3 Teresa. Teresa.
Teresa.

Speaker 2 That's right. Real housewife.

Speaker 2 I don't watch her. No, neither do I.
I don't know that colour. Yeah, no, yeah.
And the table, we record at the iHeart Studios in New York, which is really cool.

Speaker 2 Do they bolt down the table?

Speaker 2 We asked our producer CJ to bolt down the table just for liability purposes, but

Speaker 2 I was going to give you an out.

Speaker 2 Every holiday season, it's the same. You've got one person who's impossible to shop for and another who, quote, doesn't need anything.

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Speaker 2 Goodbye.

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Speaker 2 Goodbye.

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View important disclosures at acorns.com slash MFM.

Speaker 2 Goodbye.

Speaker 1 How has that been? Because like you guys just going in and doing your weekly video podcast, is that like adjustment for you guys anyway?

Speaker 3 It is. And I can, it's really, what's really interesting is that I can see it, right?

Speaker 3 So when I, our first one, I think when I'm watching myself, listening to myself, I feel like I came across kind of wooden. Do you know what I mean? I was nervous.
I was nervous. I was anxious.

Speaker 3 And I'm used to the conversations that I had with Michael being between Michael and I, not with cameras, not with people looking at us.

Speaker 3 But I've been able to see, we've been doing a few, we've done quite a few of them.

Speaker 3 And I have gotten more comfortable. Yeah.

Speaker 3 You know, even though it doesn't really feel exactly like the conversations that Michael and I had when we were alone, but it does, I feel very safe with Michael and I feel like that's coming across, right?

Speaker 2 And we're talking about like difficult conversations here. I mean, we're talking about abortion rights.
We're talking about access to contraceptives. We have an opportunity.

Speaker 2 People have the opportunity to leave us a voicemail and we play it on the show. Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 2 People ask us all sorts of crazy stuff. I mean, we call it Tales from the DMs, where we go into like the crazy things people DM me, which is like sometimes wild.
Absolutely insane. But I love it.

Speaker 2 It's like admitting to a crime. Right.

Speaker 2 That TikTok.

Speaker 1 Michael made a TikTok recently just showing, there was a couple of them, right?

Speaker 2 People saying like his client was like, I totally did it at all. I did it at LOL.
I don't know in writing. I'm like, dude, what the hell? In writing.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Has a DM ever been used as evidence in a court case?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. Absolutely, yeah.
So under the Fourth Amendment, anything you text or your phone records, you are technically sharing them with a third party and you don't have a right to privacy.

Speaker 2 So if you are texting someone, technically you're texting ATT. who then sends it to your friend.

Speaker 2 So you've already breached that expectation of confidentiality in the text message, and therefore it's not protected under the Fourth Amendment.

Speaker 2 I remember being way really young and hearing that those, remember they used to have supermarket cards that they were like membership cards.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 The BJ's card. Yes, that they can subpoena that.
Yes. That blew my fucking mind.

Speaker 2 A guy found out that his wife was cheating on him from the Easy Pass. Yeah.

Speaker 2 The Easy Pass records of her going back and forth to her house. Yeah.
Yeah, that'll do it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I represented her in the divorce. And how's she doing? She's great.
I bet

Speaker 2 flourishing.

Speaker 2 She got enough money to use that easy pass. She gets to

Speaker 2 hire me. Good for you.
You got it, girl. You got this.
Yeah. Round two.

Speaker 1 It's such a public world.

Speaker 1 Like it's that, I think that kind of information, especially for, say, a Gen X or something where it's like, that was not the truth for my whole life until 26, seven, whatever.

Speaker 1 And now suddenly it's like, oh, you're on the on camera at the store.

Speaker 2 You're on the camera. I took a waymo here.
I took a waymo here. And I'm going through, I'm going down Montana Avenue, and someone is filming me in the Waymo.
No.

Speaker 2 Because they're like, look at this self-driving car go by.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, I've been documented at this place here. Yes.

Speaker 2 At this moment.

Speaker 3 I mean, aren't you, as a fellow Gen Xer, I am so glad that my life was not recorded.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Right? Oh, every morning I wake up and

Speaker 2 the Lord. Thank you.
You know what? Get it on camera right now. What was it? Do it straight to camera.

Speaker 1 I used to do a lot of fake talk shows where I was being interviewed by David Letterman, but it was just an empty chair.

Speaker 2 Oh my God. I used to drive around talking back to Terry Gross on NPR.
I'd be like, oh, what was the question? I'd go, bloop, mute. And I'd answer that deep.
I'd be like, girl, my girl, Terry.

Speaker 2 I'd be chatting with her. This is Jeopardy.

Speaker 1 And you'd be like, really trying to construct the perfect answer where you're like,

Speaker 1 Dave, the thing about me is that just,

Speaker 1 I feel like I'm a natural. I still do that.

Speaker 2 And I would do like my haunted NPR voice. You know how everyone on NPR,

Speaker 2 well, Terry, the thing about existing as a queer man in America

Speaker 2 is that we look at ourselves the way that we see the world. We're always a reflection and a mirror back of what's happening in the world around me.
That is actually perfect. Isn't that good?

Speaker 2 That's a Terry Gross voice. It was very perfect.
Terry, if you're watching Book Me, My Ancients at CAA.

Speaker 2 I feel like my voice has never gone to that decibel in natural, in the natural world, not a natural world. Such a loud person.
That's a beta blocker voice.

Speaker 2 Oh, I love a good beta blocker. That has got me through this tour is take a beta blocker.
Oh, I'm waiting for the hotels to like leave it on the pillow for me. Like, I am waiting for like a mint.

Speaker 2 The mints have gone by the wayside now that everyone's like paleo and not eating sugar. Right.

Speaker 2 I want a little propetanol on my pillow before bed because it does sort of just like calm you a little bit. And it's nice.
It's not like a Xanax where you're like,

Speaker 2 nope, you can take it in the middle of the day. Operate heavy machinery.
Get your job on a face. I recommend you don't.

Speaker 2 Please don't.

Speaker 3 I feel like I need to investigate, but you do.

Speaker 2 It just stops you erasing thoughts in a way that's like

Speaker 2 Xanax does too, but you're fucked up. Yeah.
You know, and like it gets addicted. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It takes down the like. music playing in the background in your brain.
Exactly. Yeah.
Which is just Sabrina Carpenter on a loop for me.

Speaker 2 Drives me fucking crazy. We actually, I actually, oh my God, you're the composer from exactly right.

Speaker 2 I don't know if he is has a hit out on me because I had him change the music too and I had him base it off Sabrina Carpenter. Carpenter.

Speaker 2 I don't know if we're allowed to say this on the show, but I sent him a house tour and I was like, can you take the underlying like 90s theme from this? Melissa and I have a lot of 90s references.

Speaker 2 We do.

Speaker 2 You know, Dunker is a little bit more.

Speaker 3 Even though he was even though he was a child.

Speaker 2 Even though, yes.

Speaker 3 And I was out here making terrible decisions.

Speaker 2 Just a few.

Speaker 2 Name names.

Speaker 2 I want the name names. Wait, how did you guys meet? Speaking of that.
So, yeah, Melissa and I have gotten to know each other through, we work together.

Speaker 2 We've known each other just for about a decade now, right? About And we have one absolutely chaotic villainous best friend who is sort of the glue between us.

Speaker 2 She's my favorite. Alyssa, and she is our best friend.

Speaker 3 Alyssa is the kind of person.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 Alyssa is,

Speaker 3 you know, the kind of friend that you have that is down for whatever. Alyssa, we're going to Croatia tomorrow.

Speaker 2 She's there.

Speaker 2 Oh, she's at the airport in a future. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
She upgraded your seats. Oh, and she has the miles.

Speaker 2 And like, she is never home, and we track her location

Speaker 2 because we kept it. We have shared custody of this

Speaker 2 37-year-old woman. I know.

Speaker 2 Because I worry about it. I do too.
I'm like, why are you at a casino? It's two in the morning. I'm only awake because my dog is pissing everywhere.
I'm cleaning it up and I'm checking your location.

Speaker 2 Why are you at a casino? What are you doing?

Speaker 3 She's like, oh, I just got.

Speaker 2 Wait, do you remember when she left her phone at

Speaker 3 an angel found it?

Speaker 2 I had a Yankees game and a guy named Angel and the Bronx found it. Yes, he did.
And she was like, I'm going to go meet this guy, Angel, he's got my phone. And I was like, you are not.

Speaker 2 What are you going to do with me? Absolutely not. We're going with you.
No, you can't do this.

Speaker 2 I went with her. I was like, you're paying for the Uber.
I'm coming with her. I'm your security.
And we went and got her fucking phone up for Angel.

Speaker 2 Dad is a good friend.

Speaker 2 It was more the paperwork alone. If something happened to her,

Speaker 2 I'm not doing that paperwork. I'm not talking to her parents about this.
It is untenable. It's not going to happen.

Speaker 1 Could Alyssa ever make an appearance on the podcast?

Speaker 3 Do you?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Chaotic Corner, which is.

Speaker 2 The problem is she would have to be there on time.

Speaker 2 Never mind.

Speaker 2 Yes. But I do think at some point she's going to get so mad.
She does have major FOMO. She does.
She's going to kick down that fucking studio door. She's going to at least have to have her call in.

Speaker 1 She's going to be in a chunky boot. What can she bring to the table? What can she help with, do we think? What is she, what's her strength?

Speaker 3 Alyssa just brings herself, like the Alyssa energy.

Speaker 2 Like everybody needs a friend like that.

Speaker 2 I went to a drag show with Alyssa last weekend in Brooklyn and she...

Speaker 3 Let the record reflect. They never asked me to go to any of these things.

Speaker 2 Well, okay. It was, we went at midnight.
Okay. And I had a couple drinks with me.
And Alyssa is always out. So I texted her.
I was like, meet me at this show.

Speaker 2 I'm in the bar and I can see her through the window 50 feet away. And I'm there for like 10 minutes watching her on her phone.
And I'm like, what are you doing?

Speaker 2 So I called her because I'm like, I know you're on your phone. And I'm in here throwing dollar bills at a drag queen.
Yep. And she's like, sorry, I'm booking a flight.

Speaker 2 She was booking a flight at midnight drone on the street.

Speaker 2 It's all the time. Where'd she go?

Speaker 2 I don't think she knew.

Speaker 2 And it was like, that is a computer activity. That's not a phone.
We don't book flights from our phone. That's a desktop on the kitchen table.

Speaker 2 That's a desktop situation. It is.
We're not doing this on our phone. She does.
I'm too scared. I do it all the time.

Speaker 2 It's not flights, obviously, but like, can you use your phone for things like that in public?

Speaker 2 Should you? I don't know. No, I don't think so.
I've been, yeah.

Speaker 3 Because you're putting, because you're putting your credit card information.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but having a lot of people. My credit cards have been stolen all the time.
Yes.

Speaker 2 I think they think I'm running game because it's like, it's always like $80, like $800 of vapes in queens were bought on my credit card.

Speaker 2 They go to the vape store, like down the road.

Speaker 2 They totally vape shop. Stock up while we have this credit card available.
And I'm on the phone with the person from Amex, and I'm like, I swear I am not vaping. I promise.
Listen to this

Speaker 2 voice. It's not a vaping voice.
It's my answer to that. It's such a hard smoker.
Okay. Right.
This is American Spirit.

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Goodbye.

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Goodbye.

Speaker 2 Well, maybe she'd be great at, you guys could do like pick a side. Oh, yes.
That's really

Speaker 2 a great debate. She'd be great about that.
She would be actually really good at that.

Speaker 1 If you don't know, this is a little game where essentially we just make you pick a side in a very benign article.

Speaker 2 People write in just their basic problems. We're not going to solve anyone's big problems.
Don't fucking listen to us. That's not our microphone.

Speaker 2 I probably hired a litigator to come in and fucking fight about this. To finally settle.

Speaker 2 Right? Okay, I'm so ready. Do you want me to go first?

Speaker 1 Oh, if you have a good one, let's do it. Let's see.
The subject line of the email was 17 years of contention.

Speaker 1 Hi, friends. Boy, do I have the lowest stakes, longest running pick a side for you.

Speaker 1 My husband and I have been married for 17 years, and at least twice a month for that entire time, we have argued over which is better.

Speaker 1 The basic craft mac and cheese with the powder or the Velveeta Shells and cheese with the sauce pack. I'm not going to tell you who prefers which so as not to bias your opinion.

Speaker 1 This is such a low-stakes issue.

Speaker 1 We will both eat either. Our kids will eat either.
It's just an argument over preference, but I want the upper hand, so I'm hoping you ladies agree with me. Thanks for everything you do, Brooke.

Speaker 2 Okay, do you want to brock paper, scissors for a side?

Speaker 3 No, you go ahead first.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 should I do like an opening statement? I wish you were.

Speaker 2 Be a professional. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen of the jury.

Speaker 2 I will be representing the Velveeta cheese here in court today. And you're going to hear a lot from the defense about what is and is not cheese and what constitutes cheese.

Speaker 2 We have experts here in the courtroom who are going to talk about the process that powders go through and how they are still cheese, even though they're reconstituted. However,

Speaker 2 let's say an animal gets run over in front of your house, right? Very sad, very tragic, and no one comes and cleans it up. And it's a particularly dry season, and it dries out, right?

Speaker 2 And then it rains and it reconstitutes. Is that still an animal? I don't think so.
And you're going to hear a lot from the defense about what is and is not reconstituted cheese here today.

Speaker 2 And what I'm here to tell you is that it isn't because Velveeta is in its purest form. We're not modifying, we're not adding.

Speaker 2 You don't have to add and take away in order to give something its original shape, texture, and taste. So,

Speaker 2 in conclusion,

Speaker 2 Velveeta is and always will be the best mac and cheese.

Speaker 3 The best box mac and cheese. Yes, yeah.
Okay, so I'm not going to do what Michael just did. I couldn't do that anyway.

Speaker 2 Wait,

Speaker 2 you say that all the time. Yeah.
So whatever Michael just did,

Speaker 2 I'm not doing it.

Speaker 2 I hate them both, but I suppose

Speaker 3 that's the problem, is that I don't like fake cheese and it both they both feel like fake cheese to me. However, there is a certain level of creaminess to the Velveeta Shells mac and cheese.

Speaker 3 What I wish though, what I wish, deeply, deeply wish,

Speaker 3 I don't like my mac and cheese with shells. I like my mac and cheese with like the elbow type, right? So if we could do

Speaker 2 with macaroni.

Speaker 3 If we could do the creamy mac and cheese with the right pasta.

Speaker 2 Has anyone done that? I don't know.

Speaker 1 You know, there's somebody out there that buys both and combines.

Speaker 2 Sure, yes.

Speaker 3 That's what I would go for that.

Speaker 2 I like the shell because it gets kind of stuck in there.

Speaker 2 You don't like that. No, no, no.

Speaker 1 That answer is just so diplomatic. It's just like...

Speaker 2 It is very much, yeah, Carrie Russell. I think that's a Melissa Malbralbralbrale.

Speaker 3 But I feel like that's a Melissa Malbranch response. Yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 That's how you do it. That's usually how I do it.
Melissa Malbranch responses are always like, it's all disgusting. Yeah,

Speaker 2 however, I will say that, you know, I do make my own bechamel for my macaroni.

Speaker 2 Yeah, she does. See? You know what I mean? What are you saying for lady? Who's your, what's your recipe?

Speaker 3 A combination. Ina has a good one.
My grandmother had a good one. I usually combine all those things.

Speaker 3 It can't just be the one kind of cheese. You need several cheeses.

Speaker 2 Each one has a different purpose.

Speaker 3 And I like a baked mac and cheese as opposed to a stovetop mac and cheese. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But they have different purposes. Yes.
One is late night. Yes.
Sound drunk. Yeah.
You need something to snap on.

Speaker 3 Feed your kids, shove it in their mouth. You're done.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we're always, I'm, Melissa's always making fun of me because I go to Taco Bell when I am just glazed over. And people will recognize me as like the TikTok lawyer at 4 a.m.
Taco Bell.

Speaker 2 Because it's all like 22-year-olds from TikTok at the Taco Bell leaving the frat party.

Speaker 2 Except for me, I'm like the long in the tooth.

Speaker 2 I'm a little long in the tooth to be going out all night. It's like, hey, Taco Bell, Divas.
Hey, Divas. Tick bell.
You're not supposed to get the choice like we're doing a critch girl.

Speaker 2 And so I, when I'm there, sometimes people will be like, so my landlord's giving me trouble. Oh my God.
And I'm like, I've got one eye on last weekend and one eye on next weekend.

Speaker 2 That is, and gone. There is no way I could be giving legal advice at this point.
And Brad stepped in the one time. He was like, he cannot be giving

Speaker 2 to anything you say. Because he will, right?

Speaker 2 Because he was at the club with me seeing what I was doing. He was like, you should not be talking to anyone right now.
Not even. Hit me up in 48 hours when I forgot.
Yes. Yeah.
That's true. Okay.

Speaker 2 Want another one? Wait, wait, where do you guys come from? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
We don't matter.

Speaker 2 We were trying to make you guys argue.

Speaker 1 Well, I have very early daycare memories of craft mac and cheese that when I smell it, I just go like that. Like it's

Speaker 1 that kind of like, I realized I was being warehoused at age four.

Speaker 2 And I was just like, what the fuck is this? Visceral reaction.

Speaker 2 I can smell a Chibani yogurt across the subway platform. I can triangulate someone's fucking location based off that goddamn Chibani smell.
You know that smell.

Speaker 2 It's like

Speaker 2 the airport at 5 hours.

Speaker 2 You didn't sleep. You're waiting to board.
Coat your stomach for

Speaker 2 the Southwest. They're already.
Yeah. You're making me so sad right now.

Speaker 2 Anyway, sorry.

Speaker 2 Bring us back. Bring us back.
Well, I have a Midwestern husband who loves snacks and like really bad food. So he buys the little cups, individual cups of craft.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 We do the powder, we mix it up, it's like perfect, and then you add more cheese. Oh, from the real cheese.
You've got to get that tillamook factory. The real cheese.

Speaker 2 I don't know what they're doing at the Tillamook factory. Oh, they're just delicious.
They're just happy people,

Speaker 1 living in a beautiful valley.

Speaker 2 I met one of the employees and he was, yes, he's like dating my cousin. They might be married.
I didn't, if I didn't send a gift, I'm sorry. No, you're not.
No, you're not.

Speaker 2 This is a gift to get away from.

Speaker 2 And he was like, I've worked there for years and it's like the most wonderful employer. It was like, it was actually, I think it might be a cult.

Speaker 1 We stopped there on the way from like Portland to the...

Speaker 1 to the ocean and it's this gorgeous look it looks like you're you suddenly went into um the picture on the front of a package of cheese like the little hills the like green hills go like this and in the split idyllic yes somehow perfectly stayed and they have a dairy and a factory that you can tour and then at the end you can buy whatever they make it and there's this big ice cream shop so everybody there at the end of the tour is eating triple scoop ice creams and smiling and they're singing

Speaker 2 what's everyone's jollicking what's everyone's ice cream order that's a good

Speaker 2 that's a good yeah peanut butter and chocolate peanut butter and chocolate cookies and cream

Speaker 3 yeah um brenna and jerry's has everything but the yeah that's

Speaker 2 so good that's for the girlies who can't make up their mind right like that's for the deepest where i'm like i'm on a a little bit of everything. I'm in chocolate chip because I'm very cleansing.
Yes.

Speaker 2 Very light.

Speaker 2 It's elevating. Yeah.
It is like the elevated choice for the modern woman. The same with like the York peppermint patty where it's like, this isn't a chocolate bar.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Those are my favorite.

Speaker 2 That's my favorite peppermint patty. You got a fluffy because those are egg whites in there.
Did you eat? Really? Yeah. Is this protein? That's not vegan.

Speaker 2 So be warned. I came here today.
I was like, I was in, I have a full leather jacket. I've got a big leather back.
And I was like, I hope no one had exactly right to to speak. I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 There's a couple of them. I'm sure there are.
I hope they're not. And you know what? I can handle it.
I'm okay.

Speaker 2 You know, I've been through worse. Sure.

Speaker 2 You passed the bar.

Speaker 1 You're still part of this family.

Speaker 2 I mean, as long as it really is a big fur, a big bear skin fur. Carissa loves a vintage fur.
We talk a lot about vintage fur automatic. That's okay, right?

Speaker 2 I think it is.

Speaker 3 I mean, and maybe I'm just sort of like trying to

Speaker 3 justify what I'm doing, but I feel like it's already dead, right?

Speaker 3 And I didn't do it. And I remember

Speaker 2 It was a minute ago. It wasn't like last season.

Speaker 3 The first fur coat that I got, I inherited from an aunt of mine. And I will say that I remember when she got it.
And for her, I feel like it was a moment where she felt she had arrived. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Right. Like it was like a big deal.

Speaker 3 I feel like in the 80s, right, when I was growing up, a woman with the fur coat was a woman who had arrived. Right.

Speaker 3 Yes. So when she passed away and she didn't have any, children.
And the rest of my cousins all lived in sort of tropical places.

Speaker 3 So I was like, so it's either I take it or it ends up in a landfill somewhere, right?

Speaker 3 And I also, because I love estate sales so much, there was this woman who, she was in publishing, she had died. She had the best clothes in the world.

Speaker 2 People in publishing have fierce

Speaker 2 publishing industry.

Speaker 3 I was like stracked up and I bought her fur coat and I love it so much. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But I get it that people feel like. She also called me from the estate sale.
I did. And I'm the friend people call when they're like about to maybe do something unethical.

Speaker 2 They're like, I just kind of want to like run the gut check check past you because my ethics are a little gray, I would say. You know, I do represent people accused of violent crime sometimes.

Speaker 2 I do a lot of work with immigration defense, but sometimes there are like a lot of crimes attached to it. I was just telling the two of you before we started rolling about my client who

Speaker 2 has was maybe or maybe allegedly was caught with a bunch of heroin at the border. So we've a lot of things.
I'm sort of the ethical gray area friend, which is like a really fun person.

Speaker 2 And Melissa did call me and ask me she did call me as if she I did there was some sort of heinous crime committed

Speaker 2 I was like yeah get it do it it's my

Speaker 2 Yaya died and my mom donated her furs to the animal shelter oh my god what it sounds like a threat

Speaker 3 but you know what though I had so a while ago when I got this coat I posted it and I was just like what do you what do people think I should do and a lot of people said that I should donate it to an animal shelter yeah for the puppies to like snuggle with when they're like, if they don't have their, you know, I was like, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 Like,

Speaker 3 it felt weird, right? It's almost like giving chicken to a chicken.

Speaker 2 Like, yeah, it felt wrong.

Speaker 1 There's a butcher shop in New York. I lived there very quickly.

Speaker 2 Karen, I'm so worried where the nuts go.

Speaker 2 And the picture outside is a little pig with a chef and a nice little picture. And what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I took pictures.

Speaker 2 The first week I lived there, I was like, what the fuck is going on?

Speaker 2 Yeah, what is that?

Speaker 1 It's just like, come get our sausages.

Speaker 2 And it's like, oh, no. Did you know him?

Speaker 2 The hot dog putting ketchup and mustard on himself. Yes.

Speaker 2 That is weird.

Speaker 2 No, no, no. Yes, yes, that is.
That's teach clothing. That is self-loathing.
That's self-loathing. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 We're excited. We're going to talk about fat discrimination on the next episode.
I'm so excited because I was a former fat kid and I was treated. viciously growing up.

Speaker 2 And, you know, whatever your like body journey is, is your own journey.

Speaker 3 And I had weight loss surgery about 11 years ago now. And I will tell you what's been really interesting about that journey is

Speaker 3 the world is not kind to fat people. Not at all.

Speaker 3 And I can't tell you.

Speaker 3 I could feel the difference in the way that I was treated even by strangers.

Speaker 3 People would look me in the eye now.

Speaker 2 People would

Speaker 3 be sort of kinder to me.

Speaker 3 The one thing I will say that I wish was that there is a body positivity movement right now that I wish that I would have been part of because I think a part of what was wrong with me is that there was self-loathing.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 3 And really feeling like I sort of didn't deserve to be treated better,

Speaker 3 which. I feel bad for the person who I was for that reason, right?

Speaker 1 But it is amazing to see, especially young women these days not having any of it. Yes.

Speaker 2 And I

Speaker 3 love that for them so much. And

Speaker 3 I'm sorry that I missed out on that moment

Speaker 3 because when I was like 17 years old or 20 years old or 30 years old, I needed it then. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And it felt like it would never change. I mean, that was the kind of thing where it's like we lived in a very vogue magazine world.

Speaker 2 It was very singular.

Speaker 1 The monoculture.

Speaker 2 Small cookies, right? Diet culture was so fucked up.

Speaker 1 So huge that it's like we would never have that conversation about shells and cheese versus mac and cheese because what a pig.

Speaker 2 What are you saying? Like

Speaker 1 that whole culture. And I think that's the upside of social media, where it's like, everyone got on there and then a bunch of people were like, hey, how about you don't say that?

Speaker 2 You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 How about you adjust that position and what you think?

Speaker 2 Totally. And we're going to talk about like discrimination lawsuits around fat people and how they're treated and like things that have been litigated.

Speaker 2 So I think it'll be an interesting kind of like entree into that. But we always end up talking about like our personal experiences with these because it's so, I don't know.
It's amazing. It hits home.

Speaker 2 Yeah. It hits home.
For a lot of people,

Speaker 2 like everyone,

Speaker 2 even if you didn't like live that experience, you know, someone or you had a family member who was always treated differently or you always heard like someone's side remark after yeah yeah what i love about this is like the legal side of things i feel like i'm not part of that and i'm not there like i can't be part of that conversation because i don't know legal terms at all but you guys

Speaker 1 but i love that you guys make it pull up the chat gpt no yeah yeah yeah you know you may i mean this conversation is very similar to the podcast in that yes it's got your central thing you go there, but you also, like friends, just kind of chat, talk through things, discover things.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we were talking about like looted art and like stolen art. And then the Louvre robbery happened.
And we were like, somebody got arrested. Did you say that? Someone got arrested.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they got arrested. Yeah.
So we're, I mean, we're recording every week. It'll be a very topical episode.
I think we record a couple, it comes out a couple of days after.

Speaker 2 So we will be covering headlines, like what's really happening. And I'll dive into like the law behind it, but like, I'm not a Supreme Court litigator.

Speaker 2 Like, I am at the local courthouse with your drug dealer, with the person who was drinking and driving. Like I am there with like the local public defenders and the local prosecutors.

Speaker 2 This is not going to be like an esoteric legal podcast where we're pontificating on like the latest Supreme Court litigation.

Speaker 3 No, but I mean, I think the point is to sort of like give some information and also make people laugh and make people sort of recognize, like, oh, you know what?

Speaker 3 I'm going to think about that. And maybe

Speaker 3 I've heard this thing from Melissa and Michael's podcast and I'm gonna look and do a deeper dive.

Speaker 2 Contextualize it too, right? Like what do you do if you get pulled over?

Speaker 2 Okay, we're gonna do this like twice, once for white people and once for black people because the things that happen to the two of us when we get pulled over are very different.

Speaker 2 They're very different. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I've started giving legal advice in my practice to migrants based off of their appearance, based off how brown they may appear, which is, it's always kind of been like that.

Speaker 2 I mean, criminal defense attorneys and immigration attorneys, we've always had to sort of think about like, okay, this client is from Sweden. It's going to be a little bit different.

Speaker 2 Maybe we do this thing a little bit differently or do something over here. But now it is quite explicit.
It was always like inferred.

Speaker 2 And I think especially defense attorneys were always acutely aware of like racial injustice in the justice system.

Speaker 2 But now it is so explicit. The quiet parts being said out loud with your full chest.
So it's been a really interesting time to start a pod.

Speaker 2 Because the first episode, I was like, what the fuck are we going to cover?

Speaker 2 I mean, there's so many.

Speaker 2 We've got too many things to do. Yeah, there are so many things.

Speaker 2 So much.

Speaker 2 But we'll be in the studio every week talking about it. And I always say I'm flying around New York City on my broomstick.
I bike everywhere. I bike up and down Second Avenue to the courthouse.

Speaker 2 And then I come after

Speaker 2 court wraps at like five o'clock. I

Speaker 2 fly up on my bike with a helmet. He does wear a helmet.

Speaker 3 I do.

Speaker 2 Safety first.

Speaker 2 My dad taught me that. And I fly up to the studio after

Speaker 2 trial wraps. Oh, my God.
Let's do, should we do one more pick-aside? Oh, just like that. And then we'll do a pick-aside for them.

Speaker 1 But it'll be all constitutional law.

Speaker 2 And we failed to answer.

Speaker 2 We don't know. We told you we didn't know.
We were sweating.

Speaker 2 Okay. Should I be on? Yeah.
Okay. This has solved my disagreement.
Do you shower after having a bath? Hello, MFM family. Love you all.
Recently, I had a disagreement with my fiancé.

Speaker 2 At the time, I was so sure I was in the right that I pulled my friends friends and family to find out it was more of a divisive, divisive, divisive topic than I was.

Speaker 2 I don't know if it's divisive or divisive. Because I said one on TikTok, and everyone fucking came for me.
They were like, this disgusting man doesn't know how to pronounce it. They came for me.

Speaker 2 Well, they know I doxxed me. Because people just started calling my phone after that.
Oh, my God. Just for that.

Speaker 2 It could be that or the Swifties. I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 Their berry pie is so easily triggered. Everyone's divisive about it.

Speaker 2 Divisive. I don't know.
I still don't know. Day to dad.
So mad I didn't know which one it was. Both.
Jiboth. So piss everyone off.
At the slash. When you have a bath, do you shower afterwards?

Speaker 2 My view is that you do all that relaxing, that showering afterwards would just undo the relaxing. The bath also cleans you.
That's how people have been cleaning themselves for centuries.

Speaker 2 My fiancé says that you need to wash off the suds if, for example, it was a bubble bath. What other people have said is that you are lying in your own dirt.

Speaker 2 That's what my assistant says.

Speaker 2 That's what I think, too. That's what I think.

Speaker 2 What I have realized in my information gathering is that most people who are British, where we live and where my family is, agree with me, but my fiancé, who is Polish, and a lot of other my friends who are from other countries, they have another opinion.

Speaker 2 I haven't asked any Americans yet.

Speaker 2 Please help solve the difficulty. Thank you, Lottie and Herbert.
I'm sorry. We're not taking any advice from England on like the hygiene.
I'm sorry to any British devotees.

Speaker 2 I'm sorry. All of us around the table have fierce teeth.
We're looking at colour.

Speaker 2 We're not going to England for any how we're going to, I've been there. I've lived there.

Speaker 2 It is, why are, first of all, in England, the two faucets, hot and cold, about a mile apart on the fucking sink. Why do I, I'm getting, I'm changing time zones to get warm water.
This is absurd.

Speaker 2 Exactly. The war's over, guys.
Get it together. I've been around the world for 300 years.

Speaker 2 That was absolutely. By force.
Yes.

Speaker 2 But like, anyway, so that, that was the first thing I heard. And then the second thing I heard was for centuries, people have been bathing like this.

Speaker 2 I don't think it's been documented that they were bathing particularly well. No,

Speaker 2 no, they used to share the bathwatch water. Yes.
You can share the bathwater. Yes, yeah.
So that's it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Plain and simple.

Speaker 1 Let's do the most updated version. Yes.
Instead of looking back to our ancestors.

Speaker 2 What would they have wanted to do? Probably get in the fucking shower.

Speaker 2 I wish I could get this.

Speaker 2 We are all post-bath showers.

Speaker 2 I'm 100% not. You are not.
I am 100% not.

Speaker 3 So after a bath, you just get out.

Speaker 2 You're like later,

Speaker 2 explain to myself.

Speaker 3 But you've been, no.

Speaker 2 No, I'm not dirty, though. Like, when I married my husband, and he was like, what are you doing? And I was like, why are you getting in the shower?

Speaker 2 Like, what a fucking wake-up call after this relaxing thing. I mean, I'm not that dirty to begin with.
To begin with, you're taking a bath as like a. I wanted to tell you.
Oh, no.

Speaker 2 Oh, no.

Speaker 2 George has always just had a little bathroom ring right there. Just a little ring.

Speaker 3 Are we thinking that the bath is for cleaning or relaxing? Both.

Speaker 2 I think both. Okay.
I think that sometimes the bath bombs are like so strongly scented. I worked at Lush in 2009

Speaker 2 as a holiday hire before law school. I had to make money while I was studying for the L SATS.
I had four jobs and that was one.

Speaker 2 Wow. And my laundry smelt fucking wicked after the end of the day.
Those bath bombs smell crazy. I mean, it's asking for a UTI, not to fucking 100%.
For sure.

Speaker 1 But as someone with with very thick hair, I can't wash my hair in a bathroom.

Speaker 2 Oh, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 So you're buying stuff as

Speaker 2 well.

Speaker 2 Maybe like a face mask. Okay.

Speaker 2 Some magnesium salt. A magnesium salt.
Magnesium dries my skin out a little bit. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, but then I have to.

Speaker 2 So you add in something else. Like, yeah.
I definitely feel like

Speaker 3 the bath for me is relaxing, not cleansing.

Speaker 2 But showers aren't, don't wake me up. Showers, I'm like still going to sleep.
The shower and the bathtub have to be be separate. I will.
Oh, you won't do a shower tub. Okay, Ms.

Speaker 2 Diva's never lived in New York.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. I've always got a bath in the sink.
Same. Same.
I mean, I've lived, yeah, I've lived in apartments and I haven't didn't take baths for two years. Neighbor fell in the tub.

Speaker 2 This is like, oh my God, this is like crazy. And I think I called you

Speaker 2 because why would I call my husband?

Speaker 2 And I called Melissa. And this is, these are the friends we are.
When your cat died, you called me,

Speaker 2 not her husband, Andre. Like, this is how,

Speaker 2 this is how emotionally dependent we are. This is how best friendships really work.

Speaker 2 They were like, can you come help deadlift this 90-year-old man out of the tub? My neighbor came and got me. And I'm like, you know, I'm there.
I'm like, I'm ready.

Speaker 2 And I go down, hard cut to me trying to deadlift this man out of the tub. It was, and I was like,

Speaker 3 was he alive?

Speaker 2 I was like, he needs medical assistance. We have to call this.
They didn't want him to go to a hospital. They were like, he might get an infection.
Oh, my God. And I was like, this is,

Speaker 2 this is beyond my capabilities at this point. This is as a neighbor.
This is like, yeah, right, yes. And I went back, 40 minutes go by.
The police came. I'm talking to the police.

Speaker 2 We're doing a translator situation. I go back upstairs.
My husband's still watching TV. He's like, where were you? I was like, sorry, triage.

Speaker 2 Check that out.

Speaker 2 Where were you?

Speaker 1 I hope you enjoyed dancing with the stars, watching TV.

Speaker 2 Shot, shot, slide on dancing with the stars.

Speaker 2 What if my drag? I'm downstairs covered in blood. Wait, but also, like, if you you helped him and he got hurt from it, he could sue you.
Oh, sure. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And that was my, my thought as a naked octogenarian was laying over my shoulder,

Speaker 2 bleeding on me. I was like, this is a head trauma situation.
This is really something that we need medical assistance. It's beyond.

Speaker 2 You got to know when it's beyond your

Speaker 2 powers.

Speaker 2 Anyway, we moved and I don't talk to my neighbors anymore. Let me tell you,

Speaker 2 I don't talk to, and I've lived there for years in my new apartment and people come, they see me come off the elevator, and it's

Speaker 2 sat down, headphones in.

Speaker 1 They want to talk to you so bad because they're like, I saw you on TikTok.

Speaker 2 He's my neighbor. He's my neighbor.
He's my TikTok neighbor. I don't want to be that guy who has to come pick your grandpa up out of the tub.
I can't do it. I can't.

Speaker 2 That's too much.

Speaker 1 I feel like this could go on forever.

Speaker 1 I don't want to stop it, but I think we have to.

Speaker 1 We just need to tell you guys we are so thrilled that you are on this network with us.

Speaker 1 We're so thrilled to have your voices, to be able to hear what what you have to say, and to help guide in whatever way you guys do through friendship, through law, through life experience, whatever it is.

Speaker 1 We're just thrilled.

Speaker 2 So thank you so much.

Speaker 3 Thank you for having us. This is a wonderful opportunity.
We're super excited. I can't wait to see what happens next.

Speaker 2 Yes, we're going to have a blast that show premieres on November 13th. That's right.
We have all that info. We're going to have so much fun.

Speaker 2 Get ready to laugh. Questions.
People need to call in their questions, right? You all need to send me the GMs. Because people people are calling me just because I got doxed.

Speaker 2 They're just calling myself. You really did? I thought you were joking.
No, no, yeah. They doxed you.
Yeah, but I get doxxed all the time. It's fine.
Okay, okay. People throw myself.

Speaker 2 It's actually not fine, but okay. But it happens all the time.
Please don't do it. If I say don't do it, they'll just do it all the time.

Speaker 2 Yes,

Speaker 2 but please send in your questions because we really are answering them.

Speaker 3 Yeah, we are answering them. And like I say to all the time to everybody, while Michael is a lawyer, he is not your lawyer.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but we really want you to write in and also keep your personal information personal. Oh my gosh.
Because people are out here giving up their social security numbers.

Speaker 2 They're really, they're like, okay, here's my credit card number. Please read it on the air.

Speaker 2 It's like people are sending the.

Speaker 3 Yes, my name is John Smith and I live at 123 Main Street.

Speaker 2 I can't tell anyone where I'm located, but here's a chair. I'm going to drop a pin.
Yes.

Speaker 2 And I think that you also, because we get a lot of letters at the very bottom, they'll say, keep me anonymous. Put that at the top.
Yes,

Speaker 2 keep me anonymous.

Speaker 1 And do it yourself. Right.

Speaker 2 DIY. DIY.

Speaker 2 Well, thank you guys so much for being here. Thank you for having us.
The newest podcast on Exactly Right Network. Brief Recess debuts November 13th, 2025.

Speaker 2 Listen to new episodes out every Thursday on your podcast app and watch Brief Recess on the Exactly Right YouTube channel. Go to youtube.com slash exactly right media.

Speaker 1 You can watch it and then you can subscribe to brief recess on YouTube or you can listen and subscribe and give it a five-star review wherever you get your podcast. And please do that.

Speaker 2 Yay, thank you.

Speaker 2 Thanks, you guys.

Speaker 2 to be here. Thanks for being here.
Thank you, Diva. Yay!

Speaker 1 Now we all do ketamine together.

Speaker 2 Elvis, do you want a cookie?

Speaker 1 This has been an exactly right production.

Speaker 2 Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

Speaker 1 Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

Speaker 2 This episode was mixed by Liana Scolacci.

Speaker 1 Our researchers are Maren McGlashen and Allie Elkin.

Speaker 2 Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com.

Speaker 1 Follow the show on Instagram at myfavorite murder.

Speaker 2 Listen to MyFavavite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 And now you can watch us on Exactly Right's YouTube page. While you're there, please like and subscribe.

Speaker 2 Goodbye.

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