468 - Just Start Screaming

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Hello and welcome to My Favorite Murder. That's Georgia Hartstart..
That's Karen Kilkara. We say this every time.
You guys should know this by now. Say it along with us, but put your name in.
In both parts. Oh, I love that.
That's Becky Milligan. And that is Clarissa Streeter.
Knows it all. That's not a name.
Teaches you all. What's the Clarissa show? Clarissa Explains It All.
Explains It All. I loved that show.
I was too old. Yeah, you were.
I was the right age for that. Did she explain it all to you? She explained it all to me.
She had great fashion sense. And she really, what would she explain on a weekly basis? Like how it socially.
Yeah. Or like moms are tough, but in the end, they like have your back or like, it's tough when bullies or whatever, you know, it was like that kind of thing.
Okay. But it wasn't like corny.
No. It's like Daria kind of where it's just like, cool.
When I hear something weird and creepy, maybe a little sad. About me or you? Neither of us.
Okay, great. Just what happened to me.
Oh. It's weird.
Okay. This counts as being about you.
Okay. Okay.
So when we got back from the fire after evacuating, we were home a couple of days, everything was weird out, you know, like the sky was weird and there was ash everywhere. It's just like a creepy time.
The city was like empty. And so I'm walking Cookie on our lawn, our front lawn, and I look down a little further up.

There's like a plastic bag on the ground on our lawn.

And I approach it and it looks kind of like just a baggy, like a Coke, like a big bag, you know, like someone had dropped like a brick of Coke.

Yeah.

Half a brick.

Sure.

Not a ton.

And just so you don't have an idea.

Sure, sure, sure.

In today's money.

A brick is not enough. Right.
Brick's too much. It was like half a brick.
Brick's too much. Yeah.
Half is not. Okay.
Yeah. So I approach it and it's like messy and I realize it's cremains.
Like it's clearly cremains of something. There's a sticker on it and there's teeth marks in it.
What? And so what we figured out is that while these fires were raging, a coyote must have dug up some sweet person's sweet pet that passed away. No.
Carried it to our house and left it on our lawn. So that was fucking.
This is like during when the fires were happening. So everything is horrible.
So that was like it felt like an ominous sign. Absolutely.
But you could, but I could kind of make out the like, the stuff on the sticker that was clearly from the place where the animal had been cremated. So you're positive it was an animal? Yes, because the name was Frida.
It just said Frida. Are you positive it's not a person? It says guardian animal aftercare on the sticker.
Sorry, I just needed the confirmation. And it looks really old.
So you can't make that out. So it looks like it's been buried for a while.
And so I could kind of make out, this is me doing my fucking best sleuthing ever, by the way. Sure.
I could kind of make out the name of the person. And so we called the place that, with the animal, they called the place on the sticker.
And they're like, we're so old school. We just just have like files it's probably from a long time ago so we tried we asked our neighbors like do you know this person's name and they don't so and i just want to return it to them because like if i came out like let's say i had buried one of my beloved pets in my yard and it was a fucking dug up so they might not live there anymore but i think i should give them give a new burial, right? You could do that.
That'd be really nice. Or you could take it in the middle of the night and throw it over someone else's fence.
Let them have a fucking problem. There's options, I'm saying.
I have video of the coyotes playing in that area that night, so that didn't already happen, thank God. You're positive someone just't just go like that.
Over offense. I'm pretty sure.
That's really disturbing. Isn't that? And quite something.
Sorry. I told.
But it's also like sweet in a weird way. Well, I'm glad your coyote story is sweet because mine, they almost killed Blossom.
That's right. Just recently.
I feel like the coyotes are really under the gun. I saw one today on the street.
everybody got driven down because of the fires like it is not good in terms of poor you know actual wild animals yeah but it's also not good in terms of little white terriers just trying to act like she they're in charge of their domain my dog blossom at five in the morning needed to go out because she could hear the coyotes. And then she got bit.
And it was crazy because this is the same Blossom who survived a killer bee sting. Oh, that's right.
She has been up against it, this dog. She's an indoor dog.
Is that a thing? I think so. I think she's becoming convinced.
It could have been like if she were a little smaller, they would have carried her off. Entirely.

Fucking thank God.

Also, she makes this insane sound, which is what happened when my cousin Stevie's dog Betty attacked her.

She makes a sound that scared everybody for like an hour.

Like a scream.

It's a scream.

And then she gets away.

So she's kind of, I respect her.

Absolutely.

Just start screaming.

That's what we've talked about a lot of times.

A lot.

You can apologize for screaming. You can't apologize for having done nothing when you should have been screaming.
That's right. Right.
You really landed on something there. So I'm going to rebury it.
I'll let you know what happens. I'm going to have like a little ceremony.
In your own yard? Yeah. That's nice.
Just to like, since we can't find the person. Yeah.
Give Frida her final resting place. Sweet old Frida.
Frida. Sounds like a Pomeranian name, doesn't it? Yeah, it does.
Or Shih Tzu. Yeah.
Frida just running that house. One of those dogs that runs the house, for sure.
Barking all day for no reason. Or she's like a real nice, kind of like one of those, like a chow German shepherd mix.
The fluffy one? Yes, where she's kind of like fluffy and... God, this dog.

Tiptoeing.

Who is this dog?

Maybe she's a Persian cat.

We don't fucking know.

Oh, that's true.

What if Frida's a boa constrictor?

And we're like,

oh, Vince would be like,

get that out of my fucking house now.

So it's just been sitting,

I walk by it every day.

It's just been sitting on my lawn table.

Just like problem to be solved.

Yeah, gotta do something about that.

Oh.

I know.

So hard to lose a pet.

I know.

Sorry, that was...

No, I mean, it's interesting.

At least it's interesting.

It's not me saying, yes, I'm still watching Seinfeld.

Season 8.

It just gets better and better every episode.

Are you watching the show called Apple Cider Vinegar? It's's on netflix perfect i can switch right over from seinfeld it's like they'll be right next to each other love it oh my god it's a true story it's a dramatization about a gal who just completely one of those lied about having cancer on the internet and made a career out of like her saving her own life through nutrition yeah and it was all a But it is a true story. It's a true story.
Wow. I have to watch that.
Oh, my God. Those ones are my favorite because I do feel like it's like Scamanda, which if listener, if you haven't listened to that podcast, please stop this one immediately and run over there.
Because these stories of people like that are so I could all day long. I want to hear them.
They're just like, how did you, you started off, you had a real threat to your life, it traumatized you in some way. Right.
But then also something else happened to you. And the way they describe it, and this show does that, it's like you kind of feel empathy.
This girl's clearly like, does monstrous things, but you understand her initial motivations.

Yeah.

And that's just what you need.

But then after that, it's just a whole fucking mess. I can't imagine what it feels like to have love just outpoured towards you when you say, I have this thing.

Right.

They show that.

It's like bananas.

Yeah.

Ooh, apple cider vinegar.

Yeah.

Check.

I'm on that.

Should we get to something upbeat and funny?

Because we got some letters. Right.
Or emails, one would call them. Handwritten missives.
Long hand, long form missives about how I covered the Tenerife airport disaster last week in episode 467. And we had all kinds of questions for pilots and airplane people.
And so I guess we got some answers. I'm so frightened.
Okay, I'll go first. Okay.
This is called, I promise pilots are friendlier than you think. Hello, all.
I was listening to the latest episode when Georgia covered the Tender Reef airport disaster. It's a devastating case we all study extensively as pilots.
And like George said, the air traffic phraseology has now been standardized to avoid such an accident from ever happening. It's great.
That's good to know. Yes.
But Karen, it says, I promise we're far more patient than we seem. Because you said, what did you say? I don't know.
It's something like, I can't remember. You said, I think pilots would have no patience for me.
Yeah. Oh, that's right.
That's right. Right? Yeah.
Like they're just so organized and calm and by the book. They have next steps.
They don't want to talk to you about your...

My little stories.

Right.

I promise we're far more patient than we seem.

We're not all engineers.

And as much as we take our jobs very seriously and communication is kept to the essential during critical stages of flight,

I've yet to meet a fellow pilot who wouldn't talk your ear off given the opportunity.

Ooh, neat.

That's nice.

Okay.

Flying is an absolute privilege.

And most of us are so humbled by the fact that we get to experience it, let alone do it for a living.

Wow.

Oh, and. That's nice.
Okay. Flying is an absolute privilege, and most of us are so humbled by the fact that we get to experience it, let alone do it for a living.
Wow. Oh, and then it says, only 6% of pilots worldwide are women.
I have had the honor of being taught by some incredibly badass female pilots, and I am proud to have joined the ranking. We always need more women in aviation and STEM in general.
A little shout out to the young women listening. You can do anything.
Show those boys how it's done. Yes.
Yes. Yes.
Thank you for everything you do. You've kept me company during my many hours commuting to and from airports for training.
Welcome. A welcome reprieve when I need to switch off learning mode, SSD GM, N.
And thank you. How great is that? N was like, okay, I'll get into this conversation with you.
And all young women. Yes.
And while I'm here. Let me teach you a thing about, which is very meaningful.
Yes. Because that's a person, Anne, who is a constant handler of shit.
Yeah. Yeah.
May we all be. Up there with the greatest.
All right. Well, I have one too.
Okay. I don't know what it says.
Okay. Let's see.
Alejandra gave us both one to read to each other. Exactly.
With no instructions. Here's mine.
The subject line is, can confirm, pilots have no patience for you, Karen. Then it says, lighthearted, two-minute read.
I love it. Karen, on the last episode, 467, you said, I think a pilot would have no patience for my personality.
Oh, there it is. There's the quote.
Perfect. And I can confirm you're probably right, because I'm a Karen, and my dad, who was a pilot for 30 years, I just didn't put up with my personality.
Oh, there it is. There's the quote.
Perfect. And I can confirm you're probably right because I'm a Karen and my dad, who was a pilot for 30 years, didn't put up with my bullshit either.
It sounds like someone else's firefighter or father named Jim. There's a lot of these dads out there and I'm glad we're finally talking about it.
There are no bullshit dads. My dad, Captain Craig, flew for major domestic airlines before and after 9-11 and is a real hard ass in the best way.
You'll be happy to know, Georgia, that pilots in general are very meticulous people and not willing to be rushed through procedure for anyone. For example, my dad does a walk-around inspection of the car before he gets in, all caps, every single time.
Oh my god. My dad does the op, when he's leaving the car, he checks every door handle.
Oh, yeah. Three or four times.
Just lock it down. Oh, dad.
Okay. Even when just leaving the grocery store after running a quick errand, Ant has very rigid rules about safety.
And then in quotes, like, talking, this car's not moving until everyone has their seatbelts on. Yeah, 100%.
As you can imagine, little teenage Karen, me, and Captain Craig didn't always get along so well. But now that I'm an adult and he isn't teaching me standard operating procedures for making my bed and debriefing me about Friday night parties, we have a great relationship.
Oh, my God. Debriefing me about Friday night parties.
He also makes me feel much calmer about flying. I frequently text him when I see scary plane stuff in the news,

and he is the first to reassure me that flying is very safe

and gives me the inside scoop on any positive changes happening in airline safety.

Stay sexy and don't BS around pilots.

Jana.

Jana, can we get your dad's phone number so we can also text him when things happen?

Could we start a segment with Captain Craig called Air Mail?

And he just like maybe every week sends us an email that says,

hey, I listened to the last episode.

This is what I would have done differently.

Thank you. Could we start a segment with Captain Craig called Air Mail? And he just like maybe every week sends us an email that says, hey, I listened to the last episode.
This is what I would have done differently. Totally.
But here's also why you shouldn't worry and everything's going to be okay. Yes.
I want reassurance too. Not just about air flight or anything, just general Captain Craig stuff in the world.
Debrief me and inform me. And let's have some Friday night parties.
And calm me down and we'll be there too. Of course, Anne is invited as always.

Anne was here first.

That was amazing.

That was great.

I love it.

You guys always write in when you have thoughts and feelings.

We might not read them, but we appreciate it.

Thanks, Alejandro.

That was so good.

All right.

Should we talk about the network?

Yes, definitely.

We have a podcast network.

Did you know?

It's called Exactly Right Media.

And here's what's going on. This week on Bananas, Kurt and Scotty are joined by comedian Sashir Zamata to talk about the world's most bizarre and hilarious news stories.
She is so freaking funny. She's so cool.
Over on this podcast, We'll Kill You, Erin and Erin go on a deadly deep dive into the death cap mushroom. Ooh, God, they're good.
Yeah, they're good. Speaking of toxic, Bridger welcomes actor and comedian Vinnie Thomas on I Said No Gifts.
I have to say, that was just purely an Allison joke that I could not stop laughing at. Vinnie Thomas is one of the best comedians around.
Of course, we love Bridger Weinecker. Nobody's toxic.
Nobody, but everybody. And despite Bridger's explicit instructions, Vinnie arrives with an unsolicited gift to see what happens next by listening to I Said No Gifts.
That's right. When you're done with that, you can go over to Rewind with Karen in Georgia.
That's us. Hi.
This week, we traveled back to September 8th, 2016, recapping episode 33 called What About Mimi? where we covered the Jane Mixer case alongside the co-ed killer. And we also covered the unbelievable survival story of Jennifer Morey.
So in honor of the Rewind episodes, we've stocked one of our most iconic t-shirts. It's one of our earliest.
Our good friend Kat Solin's t-shirt design. Here's the thing.
Fuck everyone. I meant to wear the sweatshirt because I stole one because it is my favorite design.
In the merch meeting. But I couldn't find it because I think it's in the wash.
Oh, no.

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It's a great way to tell all the parents at Pick Up what you really think.

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It's such a good little picture of a little blonde girl sitting on a raft by herself. It's unbelievable.
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What season do I trim it? I don't know. And I don't want to ask my mom because then I get a lecture.
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Goodbye.

All right, you go first this week.

All right, I'll go first this week.

Okay, this is just one of those awful stories that we hear all the time.

It's one of those unfair stories about someone doing a bad thing. And then instead of taking responsibility for it, doubling down and trying to evade that problem via murder.
Like Selena's story that we told on Rewind recently. Yeah.
You know, this is the eternal human problem. Everybody does it.
It's not to the person. It is a human condition of the shame you feel when you do a bad thing or a wrong thing.
So you're like, I can't feel this shame anymore. So what I'm going to do is give somebody else the shame.
And that'll work. The problem is it never does.
It doesn't. So today's story is about a murder that rocked New York City right in the middle of the summer of 2020.
Remember that? When everyone is still reeling from the early days of COVID. So I don't remember this because I think that there was just so much going on in the news.
The main sources for this story are reporting in the New York Times and a really beautiful tribute to the victim written by his sister, Ruby Soleil. The rest of the sources can be found in the show notes.
So it's July 14th, 2020, and we're in the Lower East Side of New York City, which, as you know, these days is cool. It's a desirable high-end neighborhood.
A 30-year-old woman is riding the elevator up to her cousin's apartment. Her family had asked her to check on him since they hadn't been able to get in touch with him.
Always bad. The cousin that she's going to check on is named Fahim Soleil, and he's 33 years old.
Fahim is an entrepreneur and has found really great success with several startups. You know this one? The most recent is a motorcycle delivery app that's widely used in Nigeria.
He was born in 1986 in Saudi Arabia, where his father was a professor at the time. The family is originally from Bangladesh.
Then they moved to America when Fahim was four years old. And then it's the classic struggling financially for years while Fahim's father finished his PhD so he could make like a life for his children.
That classic immigrant story wanted a better education, better opportunities for their children, and the lengths and struggles they go to achieve that. So Fahim is a born engineer and is always tinkering with things from an early age.
He's one of those kids. My brother was totally like, you get a clock and you take it apart immediately to see how it works, and then you put it back together.
I was not one kids. Me either.
No. He learns to code and begins launching little tech startups in his teens.

The first one is called Monkey Do and it's, quote, jokes, pranks, fake poop, fart spray,

and more for teenagers.

Wait, for sale?

Yeah.

It's the, it's, yeah.

It's a prank store online.

That's, okay, can I just say that the magic shop, it was a magic and pet shop.

Thank you. Yeah.
It's the, it's, yeah. It's a prank store online.
That's, okay, can I just say that the magic shop, it was a magic and pet shop in my hometown. Yeah.
The pet stop, and they sold. Magic and pets shop.
Magic and pets, and they sold all that stuff in there. So there was like birds and nothing.
I think the guy had a monkey for a little while. Yeah.
What the fuck? Adrian and my sister and I talk about the monkey a lot because it was, yeah. But then basically during their late 70s, early 80s, they need to kind of expand just like they're not making all their money on selling a lizard once a week.
Right. And so they start getting, remember those rubber masks that you could get a Reagan mask? Yes.
And they're very lifelike. Yes.
They just started all these rubber masks. Like pranks and jokes.
Pranks and the gum. And my next door neighbor was a real trickster, 12-year-old.
And so he was always like, would you like a piece of gum you've never seen the brand of? And so that is like, I just love that because that is that age and that like, what's necessary right now? A stink bomb. Right.
What do I want to create and make for other people? This is garlic gum right and this is and it does it's a really good indication of his personality because this is exactly what he's like he's bright and funny he's carefree he's curious smart very smart obviously yeah and the website performs really well and he actually monetizes it with ads and this is when he's 13 so this is like the late 90s when shit like this we this. No one knew to do stuff like this yet.
And a 13-year-old is coding himself. I think his parents were freaked out when he got his first check.
And they're like, what is this from? And then he showed them. And they're like, all right.
My business. My business.
Welcome. At 13.
Yeah. So amazingly, Fahim makes enough money through these kinds of ventures to put himself through college.
Wow.

So that American dream his parents had paid off.

It's already happening in the house.

Yeah.

Yeah.

After college, he finds more success in the prank space with a playful website for generating prank calls.

So clearly, he likes to have fun.

But also, like, tapping into a niche where he's like, what are me and all my friends truly passionate about?

Tricking people.

Prank calls, tricking. Like, it is that thing of, like that thing of find a need and fill it.
Totally. So he did that.

So good. Fahim takes the money he earns from this venture.
He wants to now steer away as getting a little older from the prank world into more serious ventures. So then he completely

pivots and does a 180. Now he's like, look, I want to give other people the opportunity that

my parents gave me by moving to the US and getting an education. I want to give that to other people.
He just completely pivots from this prank world and becoming this like altruistic person. Yeah.
He wants to give other people the opportunity that his parents gave him. And so he finds enormous success with a ride app based in Bangladesh and then with an app called GoKana, which is a Nigerian motorcycle delivery app.
And it gives people in Nigeria and all these people so many opportunities that they didn't have. His company later stated, quote, he believed young Nigerians are extremely bright and talented individuals who would flourish if just given the right opportunity.
So the Saleh family is just obviously bursting with pride over Fahim, and he's known to be particularly kind and generous. So he's 33 years old, and he's close to his family.
He had recently gotten his new grown-up apartment in the Lower East Side. He's also recently gotten a dog, which is a Pomsky named Layla, who he adores.
Just looks like a little husky. It's so cute.
And there's photos of him with the dog, like smiling. He's just this like beautiful, bright smile, open face, kind eyes.
He's just this like clearly beautiful person. Still, despite being an adult, Fahim's father checks in with him every day to make sure he's remembering to eat because like people like my brother who are obsessed with computers and tinkering, they'll just work through the night and we'll forget to eat.
My mom used to have to take my brother's keyboard, computer keyboard with her to work in the morning so my brother would go to school. This is like elementary school.
So Fahim's apartment is in a small luxury condo building with only seven units. There's no doorman.
And there's only one apartment on each

floor. And it's the kind where the elevator opens to the apartment instead of like a hallway.
Yeah. And you need a key to select your particular floor in the elevator.
So when Fahim's cousin gets off the elevator in his apartment and takes a few steps in, she makes just the absolute most horrific discovery you can imagine this This story is so awful. And I definitely remember reading about it during quarantine and having it be that kind of very surreal and very kind of isolated experience of like taking it all in and just awful.
And the headlines that they used were particularly horrible. And that's one of the things his sister says in this tribute she wrote for him online.
You can read online that she's flying across country to identify her brother. And these grisly headlines are all she sees on her computer.
Was it New York Post? Of course. Yeah.
Yeah. Because the cousin finds Fahim's torso on his living room floor as she walks in.
She flees the apartment,

calls the police, and when they arrive, the police find Fahim's head and limbs in a garbage bag.

They also find an electric saw still plugged into the wall, and they find cleaning supplies,

and it looks like the scene has already been significantly cleaned up, but it looks like

someone's in the middle of cleaning up the scene. So Fahim's family is very close-knit're absolutely obviously destroyed by this news.
And this is the summer of 2020. So because of COVID restrictions, Ruby has to identify Fahim's body from a picture and she just didn't want her parents to have to do it.
So she agrees. And she writes, quote, I began to caress his face on the computer screen with my index finger as tears poured down my cheeks.

I just wanted to tell him I'm so sorry, Fahim. I'm so sorry, Fahim, my poor sweet brother, my heart.
The medical examiner finds that Fahim's cause of death was from multiple stab wounds to the neck and torso. Again, Fahim's building has no doorman, but there are security cameras in all the common areas.
So when the police look back at this footage, they see Fahim returning to the building on July 12th after going out for a run.

And then a man in a black suit wearing a black N95 mask and black gloves who appears to be already inside the building.

When Fahim walks in, follows him into the elevator.

And when the elevator doors open into Fahim's apartment, the man in the suit uses a taser to subdue him and then drags him into the apartment. At first, at least one police source tells the press he believes this to be a hired hitman.
They believe that this person was still in the process of trying to get Fahim's body out of the apartment the next day when his cousin came over to check on him. But the impression that this was the work of a professional quickly changes when police realized that shortly after the murder, the killer had used one of Fahim's credit cards to take an Uber to a nearby Home Depot to buy extra cleaning supplies.
Surveillance video from the elevator shows the man coming back to the apartment with his equipment on July 14th, the day Fahim's cousin would later come by. The footage shows him vacuuming inside the elevator.
And I didn't know this, but he was vacuuming inside the elevator because there's a chip that's deployed when a taser goes off that identifies the taser. Oh.
Like a little chip. Did you know that? No, I did not.
Isn't that wild? Yeah. I mean, that makes sense, right? It's like, it's a weapon.
Someone needs to be able to go and find, like, where it was, where it happened. Totally.
It's a weapon. It's pretty brilliant.
And after the vacuuming, he disappears into Fahim's apartment to begin cleaning the scene and dismembering the body. And then while he's doing this, it turns out that the battery in the saw runs out.
And that's why the murderer left to go to Home Depot to get a new battery.

And by the grace of God, somehow, this is the point that Fahim's cousin comes into the apartment to check on him.

Because what would have happened if she had come in?

Any sooner. If that battery hadn't died?

You know?

I mean, it's a horrible situation.

But, you know, to look at one positive thing that that didn't happen. Yeah.
Thank God. Yeah.
So then police learn something that quickly makes the whole investigation fall into place. They figure out that Fahim's former assistant, a 25-year-old named Tyrese Haspel, had resigned the previous year.
He did so right before Fahim realized that Tyrese had stolen $35,000 from him by setting up a bogus company and embezzling funds through payments to that fake company. Tyrese had originally been hired to keep Fahim's personal finances in order, so he had access to all this information.
And after learning about the Feth, Fahim confronted him and then actually declined to press charges and said he wanted to work out a repayment plan with Tyrese. That was the kind of person he was.
He was very generous and he was willing to like work with him. Yeah.
So he wouldn't get in trouble. Well, he probably knew him as a friend.
Yeah. I mean, that's close relationship.
Totally. What Fahim didn't realize or what he was possibly about to find out in July of 2020 was that Tyrese had actually continued stealing from him in a separate scheme even after he didn't work for him any longer.
In fact, Tyrese repaid Fahim with Fahim's own stolen money from the second scheme. Yeah.
This one involved fake PayPal charges. Tyrese had actually stolen an additional $400,000 from Fahim.
Wow. So in 2020, Tyrese had been becoming afraid that Fahim was about to discover that additional theft, which was obviously much larger and probably was going to get him in, you know, legal trouble and had been plotting for months to kill him to prevent getting caught.
They find that he had made two other attempts in the recent past to kill Fahim. Whoa.
Yeah. But he like he didn't go through with them.
Not that like he would have noticed. Once the police uncover these two schemes, they realize Tyrese is the man from the surveillance videos and he's arrested on July 17th.
So just a couple, they went after that quick. Just a couple days later, he's arrested at an Airbnb in Soho, which is about 10 blocks from Fahim's apartment.
And according to the New York DA, Tyrese had started working on the plot that he went through with about a month in advance. In June of 2020, he bought contractor bags, a Swiffer mop, and the battery-operated saw.
He also contacted a real estate broker asking to tour a vacant apartment across the street from Fahim's. And somehow he was able to make a copy of the key to that apartment and installed a Nest camera so he could track Fahim's movements from across the street in the apartment.
That seems really advanced. I know.
In terms of this kind of planning, it's clearly not a crime of passion, clearly not somebody like you snapped because someone was so awful to you. It's just like very methodical.
But also not a professional killer. So it's also very more methodical than you'd think it would be.
Yeah. So then on July 13th, Tyrese followed another resident into Fahim's building at 830 a.m.
and hid in the package room waiting for Fahim to leave and then return from his run. So after the murder, he took an Uber to Jersey City, getting rid of some of the evidence in trash cans there.
And he returned the next day to finish cleaning up the apartment and to dispose of Fahim's body.

And that's when he ran out of the battery for the saw.

So when he came back from getting the battery, he saw the police outside the apartment and fled.

And then he went through that night with lavish plans he had made for his girlfriend's birthday party that he was throwing.

Wow.

Like just pivoted and went through a party.

Yeah.

She didn't know what was going on.

Sorry, doesn't it just thinking about it now, because that happened so often, where it's like the crime scene's there and then the killer comes back for whatever reason. Doesn't it feel like, well, the police are still there having discovered a crime scene, that they should be posting people like a block and two blocks away to be tracking every single person that comes and immediately goes away.

Or just have a stakeout and not immediately like, why in? The Nest camera up in the old Airbnb. Right.
No, that's a really good point. It just or should be in the future because it seems like this is a thing that happens.
Yeah, that's a really good point. So Therese is charged with first degree murder, grand larceny and burglary, among other charges.
He's found guilty on all charges in June of 2024. And in September of 2024, this past September, he's sentenced to at least 40 years in prison.
Fahim's family are, of course, still absolutely devastated by the loss of their son and brother. Fahim's sister, in her tribute, writes that, quote, Sometimes it still doesn't feel of the senseless, greed-fueled murder of Fahim Saleh, a self-made, brilliant, kind and forgiving young man whose family will never be the same.
God. I know.
Also, I only knew about that story up until a point because you're right. When it broke, it was like this awful thing.
And then it was like, and then here's another bigger, scarier, awful thing. And yeah, it's such a quick turnaround, too.
It's like they got him immediately. And then it was just waiting for the trial.
Yeah. Good job.
Thank you. That was that was really good.
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Well well i'm going to tell a horrible story as well okay this is how we do it yeah but mine is definitely very very different than yours okay and also you might remember it's from 2005 and it was a bit of a cultural moment at least in northern california where i. You couldn't get away from this story for a little while.
And recently, our writer, Alison Agosti, reminded me of it. And she sent me this article that basically we'll talk about at the end that started this where I was like, oh, I have to cover this.
I completely forgot about it. What is it? So it's March 22nd, 2005.
Okay. And I'm just going to set the scene for you.
Please. President George W.
Bush is waging war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Oh, yeah.
Martha Stewart has just completed her prison sentence for insider trading. And the Hillary Swank boxing movie Million Dollar Baby wins Best Picture at the Academy Awards.
Yes. Just put yourself back there.
What a year. I had the tiniest bangs you've ever seen.
Oh, I mean. Just little tiny bangs.
Oh, I think I was out of baby bangs phase, only because I had stopped drinking. Meanwhile, over in San Jose, California, something very gruesome is unfolding.
It's just before 7.30 p.m., and a woman is seated in the dining room at a Wendy's, ready to enjoy some of their fresh, hot chili for dinner. She picks up her spoon, dips it into the bowl, and then takes what will be the most consequential bite of food in her entire life.
As she begins to chew her mouth full of chili, she describes feeling something, quote, crunchy in her mouth. It just feels off, so she spits the item out to inspect it.
That so-called crunchy item in her chili appears to be a human fingertip. Yes.
Tip or nail? Tip. Hold the entire tip.
Basically, the finger is what we will be calling it from now on in this story. Holy shit.
Not just one of those, oh, I cut the top of my finger off with a knife and it's bleeding, but it's still my finger. Like I'm sending a message tip.
It's the top of a finger. No.
Oh my God. These are the very first moments in what will soon become a national media sensation and a costly PR crisis for one of America's biggest fast food chains.
This is the story of the Wendy's severed finger event of 2005. Oh my God.
It's not ringing a bell yet. Really? Okay.
No. Amazing.
Okay. So the sources Maren used to research the story today are a Snopes article by writer David Mickelson and several articles from the Associated Press and from the San Francisco Chronicle, most of which were published in 2005.
And the rest of our sources are listed in our show notes if you want to go see and read. Okay, so Wendy's San Jose, 2005, 7.30 p.m.
A woman just spits out a fingertip and is quite understandably freaking out. She starts telling the other diners to stop eating their food as she shows off the small finger.
It's about an inch long. It does have a fingernail on one end.
I love her type. That's not just like, oh, my God.
She just starts fucking screaming about it. Stop eating.
Stop eating. Stop eating.
Good for her. And then she rushes up to the restaurant's employees to tell them what's happened.
And as she does, as the San Jose Mercury News later reports, at least three people in the dining room become physically ill. Sure.
So you're sitting there eating, and then someone's like, holy shit, there's a finger in my chili. And that's probably the first time most of them had ever seen a severed finger before.
Absolutely. You've got to hope.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I didn't think about that at all.
You're connecting all these things and then you're just like, and I have just taken a bite of whatever. Totally.
This is horrific and I love it. Okay, good.
But some of the Wendy's employees seem to be in disbelief. One patron will later tell the Mercury News, quote, they told us it was a vegetable.
The people from Wendy's were poking at it with a spoon. Oh.
End quote. But I mean, what are they supposed to do? This is wild.
This is like, how are you even saying that this is real? There's no way this is real. I guess it could be Hominy if you look really blurry.
You don't have your glasses on. Hominy doesn't have a fingernail on it.
That's very true. As far as I know.
I shouldn't just say that kind of stuff. I love to.
You really should fact check. I'm going to someday.
Okay, so it's very understandable why these employees are questioning what's going on. They are the ones that made the chili.
They made it at 2 p.m. in the restaurant, or they assembled it.
Made is probably generous, but I'm not exactly sure. But they make it there, as usual, every day.
So no one on the staff was involved in any accidents. No one lost a fingertip.
It doesn't make sense that something that shocking is found in the chili from their restaurant. But not everyone was in denial.
Someone in that restaurant called the police and the police arrive alongside officials from the Santa Clara County Health Department led by a health officer named Dr. Marty Fensterscheib.
Dr. Fensterscheib.
It's 7.30 on a weeknight. He's at home.
Ring, ring, ring. Real boring.
Getting ready for bed. Crossword puzzle.
Yeah, no big deal. Like, his life isn't that exciting.
No. Then the fucking call of a lifetime comes in.
And he, like, puts on his half glasses. Yes.
And he says, I've got a feeling that they need my services.

His wife puts his cape on. His children kiss him goodbye.
Dr. Marty Fensterscheib is about to roll.
So at his command, the fingertip is quickly wrapped up in damp gauze and sent off to the medical examiner's office, who is now tasked with determining whether or not it is indeed a human body part. Next, Dr.
Fensterscheib shuts down the restaurant until he and his officers can figure out what in the living hell is going on. The prepared chili that's on site, which had been made at two o'clock that afternoon, as I said, is hauled off for inspection, as are all the ingredients that the restaurant has on hand to prepare any new batches of chili, right? So they just take all the chili fixings, which you know are a plastic bag.
I was just going to say that. Like, they don't chop and fucking dice.
That shit's just going from a bag to a heating thing, right? I can't say for sure. I really wish I could call my friend Erica Sobel, who I went to high school with.
She worked at Wendy's for years, and she listens to this podcast. Erica, text me, please, if you know anything about the preparation for the Wendy's Chili.
I should have thought of that. You know that people listening right now are going to write in and tell us about their fast food.
My God, send us your fast food experiences. God, please.
The grossest ones. But especially Wendy's employees.
Yes, we do. We want to hear from you in any way you would like to share with us.
My favorite murder at Gmail. But I have to say this.
Well, you'll see. I won't give anything away right now.
So it doesn't take long for Dr. Fenstersheib and his team to figure out that finger was in fact not severed in the restaurant.
None of the employees show any signs of trauma or bleeding, and they don't find any other health or safety issues in that kitchen. Instead, the situation seems contained to that one diner's cup of chili and presumably the larger batch that that cup came from.
She's the luckiest woman in the world or the least unlucky woman in the world. Yes, exactly.
So a few hours later, this Wendy's is given an okay to reopen. Right? No, thank you.
I mean. Give it a night.
Close it for the night. And then later later that night the local news reports on this story but it's not given hardly any airtime at all and they end it by saying the report is unconfirmed so it's basically just word is that yeah but the next day the medical examiner confirms what everyone was dreading the object in the chili is not a vegetable or a prop of any kind, it is a human fingertip.
And when that information is sent to the health officer, Dr. Fensterscheib, he is the unenviable task of informing the public.
Because when the finger was discovered, they made the chili at 2, the finger was discovered at 7.30, that means countless customers could have purchased and eaten from the same batch of chili no one's ever eating chili again i mean it was truly that is what happened for a while in northern california because it was just the imprint of it on everyone's mind that's so it is the thing of like it doesn't it's like once the story hits it kind of doesn't matter whether or not it's true absolutely kind of like gossip yeah so maryn writes to me in parentheses note to karen i haven't been able to find a source that specifically states how many customers purchased the chili that day it's always in vague terms and i'm like no more than four absolutely there's who? Nobody. No one.
I bet you when the chili first came out in like the 80s, people were like, what a great substitute. But you could put it on a potato.
You can have it with a salad. I think by 2005, people are just like, chili? I don't know.
Yeah. I could be wrong.
Again, Wendy Heads, let me know. So Dr.
Fenster Scheib makes a public statement where he reassures anyone who ate the chili in that time frame from this specific Wendy's that they are probably fine since the fingertip was presumably cooked at high enough temperatures to kill bacteria and viruses. Then I just picture him being C and popping it in his mouth to be like, it's totally fine.
Choo, choo, choo. It's Erin Brockovich with then you drink the water.
If it's so fine, you drink the water. You have some chili from yesterday, Marty.
So he advises anyone who may have eaten that chili to check in with their doctor just in case. Imagine having to run that press conference.
Just the waves of horrified barfing. Oh, my God.
Oh, my God. It's just like Stand By Me at the old pie eating contest.
Okay. Now that a public health official is confirming the initial reports, of course, then local and national news picks up on the story.
The San Francisco Chronicle actually sends a reporter to the Wendy's in San Jose to interview diners. And one woman who happens to be eating a bowl of chili when she's approached by the reporter tells the reporter she'd heard rumors about the finger, but she assumed it was just an urban legend.
On the news that night? A four-day-old urban legend. That's denial.
She likes her chili. She loves her bucket.
Maybe we just didn't know about Wendy's chili. That's so good that you'll eat it even after.

When you're like, probably not a finger though, right?

And they took care of it already.

Yeah.

You know.

That's a new batch.

Why didn't they pull all the chili off their fucking, the market?

I think they were like, there's no way this happened.

Okay.

So, you know.

Okay.

So another diner hadn't heard the news at all until she got to Wendy's and overheard employees whispering about it behind the counter. Guys, love it.
Shut up. She tells the reporter, quote, I actually did check my food with my spoon.
Again, was that food chili? Poking her burger with a spoon. Chili's being eaten.
There's even a customer who walks in fully aware of this situation and jokingly asks the staff, quote, where's the finger at? Oh, and then I just wrote in all caps. I love him.
I know it's a guy and I love him. But in the first wave of reporting the story, one key detail is always missing.
The name of the woman who discovered the finger in her chili. She explicitly asks not to be identified or described even.
And reporters honor that request. But of course, her identity can't stay secret for long as this story gets wider and wider.
And reporters find out that this woman's name is Anna Ayala, and she's a 39-year-old woman from Las Vegas who was in San Jose visiting relatives. While Dr.
Fenstersheib has been trying to give the public peace of mind about any physical effects of consuming the contaminated chili, the psychological fallout, of course, is uncontainable. And he knows this firsthand because he's the one that has to call Anna to give her the bad news.
He's been checking in on her since the night before, which is when it happened, But now he has that confirmation from the medical examiner. So he asked to tell her that, in fact, it was a human body part in her chili.
She didn't want anyone to know her name because it's the same thing when you win the lottery. Like your family is just going to come after you for body parts the way they come after you for money.
Or they're just like constantly like, oh, God. She chewed a finger.
So he later says, quote, I had to confirm it to her that she had indeed put a piece of human finger in her mouth.

She kind of lost it.

Yeah.

End quote.

Totally understandable.

Absolutely.

So within a week of her gruesome experience, Anna has completely dropped the pretense of anonymity.

And now she's making the media rounds.

She gives an exclusive interview to Good Morning America where she says that she's considering filing a lawsuit, and she talks about the emotional distress of the whole ordeal. She tells them, quote, the thought of, you know, just knowing that there was a human remain in my mouth.
It's disgusting. It's tearing me apart inside, end quote.
So first, of course, there's this out outpouring of sympathy for her and of course, a widespread disgust toward Wendy's and their chili. And then over the next couple of weeks, Anna's story dominates national headlines.
It fuels endless late night jokes, which was the culture back then. I'm so glad that's not really like a thing anymore.
Yeah, it was so tasteless. was so con well i mean it was just expected at the time yeah it's just like yes this is gonna happen and it's immediately gonna be this the joke fuel and yeah you know everything's up for ridicule yes it also though tanks wendy's sales especially in northern california i was there this is the truth you need it.
No, no one. Everyone just was weirded out.
But Wendy's is not sitting idly by just watching all this happen. They as a corporation, of course, are looking for answers.
This is big business. Yeah.
And they're not just going to sit there and be like, we're so sorry. Yeah.
They make all their San Jose staffers take a polygraph test to show that they played no part in placing the finger in the chili. Wow.
And then they hire their own private investigator to look into the matter for themselves. Damn, Wendy.
Yes. Most importantly, the company posts a $50,000 reward, which they'll later bump up to $100,000.
For what? For any information about how a finger could have wound up in their chili. Oh, so they think it's fucking sabotage.
Hell yes. And they're ready to pay.
They're like, what's the whole story? Because this seems weird. We have a lot of checks and balances.
Yeah, that's one angle. Nobody, not one employee at our restaurant knows what the fuck's going on.
It was not them. We stand behind them now that we've polygraphed them right and just fyi in 2005 a hundred thousand dollars would have been 160 000 in today's money you need that this is so big lebowski with the toe right yeah it is so anyone with information is asked to call wendy's anonymous line, which their private investigator is actively screening themselves.

That was like the best gig he's ever gotten, ever.

To be on the Wendy's severed finger tip line.

My God.

Severed finger tip line.

Okay.

So now in tandem with Wendy's efforts, there's also an official police investigation into where this finger could have come from. And there are six detectives working on this case.
Can we get those on a murder case? Could we have some sexual assault paid attention to? It would be great if we could get those kits tested. Okay.
But again, and I think we all know this now in 2025, literally 20 years later, that when a corporation has an issue, that that is what's focused on. This is a money-making venture, and this is not thousands of dollars.
This is hundreds of – this is millions of dollars probably. Yeah.
So the thing is no one can figure it out. The employees at the San Jose Wendy's location have all been ruled out.
A deeper dive into the was likely severed recently. He also points out that it looks, quote, torn.
Gross. Okay.
Okay. Okay.
Okay fingertip and then they run. So sorry.
Oh, my God. I almost spit that water out.
They fingerprinted the fingertip. Who had to hold it and touch it.
And were they yelling the entire time? Oh, my God. No, Karen.
The medical examiner is a professional. They're professionals.
They deal with this constantly. It's not that big of a deal to them.

They run those fingertip fingerprints through national databases. No hits.
It's a clean, clean record fingertip. Wendy's, meanwhile, is now on the defensive.
They bring their own forensic expert to consult with the medical examiner specifically on whether the fingertip had actually been cooked with the chili or added afterwards. Their analysis concludes that the finger had in fact been added later.
Dr. Fensterscheib loops back into the tell reporters,

quote, the possibilities are still all out there on where and when the fingertip came into the chili.

So they're going to like the health department, everybody's going back to the press over and

I'll see you next time. out there on where and when the figure tip came into the chili.
So they're going to like the health department. Everybody's going back to the press over and over, like updates and like, here's what needs to happen now.
People need to, the story needs to be controlled in some way. With each new bit of information that comes to light, Wendy's feels more reaffirmed that they have done nothing wrong and that they're being set up.
The corporation's senior vice president of communications at the time, Denny Lynch,

tells the New York Times, quote,

Someone put something in a bowl of chili, but it was not us.

We don't know what happened, but we know Wendy's is innocent.

End quote.

So Anna Ayala, meanwhile, is not backing down.

Her attorney immediately shoots back, saying, quote, So while all of that's playing out in the media, behind the scenes, the Wendy's tip line is active. And in a matter of weeks, they reportedly received nearly 300 tips.
And some are so bizarre, they end up making the news. Oh, my God.
For example, one comes from a 59-year-old Nevada woman who'd recently lost a finger to a leopard at her exotic animal compound outside of Las Vegas. Which is, again, where Anna lives.
The woman says she last saw her finger on ice at the hospital, but has no idea where it ended up beyond that. Someone's selling fingertips to...
No, it doesn't track. It doesn't make a lot of sense.
No, I'm not getting for me to be. This lead certainly adds more color to an already weird case, but the police quickly shut it down because the woman's lost finger in the fingertip found by Anna look entirely different.
How do you fucking tell two fingerprints? Come on. You want me to tell you? Yeah.
They put eight fingertips in a lineup. They're all wearing turtlenecks.
Which one was in your mouth? Do any of these look familiar? Long fingernail, little bitten fingernail. A little quirky smile.
One's got dimples. Hangnail.
Okay, then a new tip is called into the Wendy's hotline. Ring, ring, Wendy's fingertip hotline.
But it's not about the finger. It's about Anna herself.
This caller claims that back in 2002, Anna scammed her by selling her an $11,000 trailer that she, Anna, in fact, did not own. Oh, no.
Of course, this has nothing to do with the Wendy's incident, but if it's true, it could maybe shed some light on the character of the person that is at the center of all of this. Okay.
It's not a great look for Anna. So around the same time, it comes to light that Anna had been involved in an unusually large number of lawsuits.
Oh, no, you can't. We can't do that.
No, no, people people are on to you. The thing about lawsuits is it goes into the permanent record and the public record.
Yeah. And like most people have zero to one.
Yes. You hope you'd hope.
OK, so the AP reports, quote, investigators have found 13 civil actions involving Ayala or her children. At times, it says she has settled cases for cash payouts before the lawsuits have gone to court.
Yeah, that's the scam right there. So now here we are.
Also, some of these lawsuits are very shady. In 1999, for example, a car dealership sued Anna and her then boyfriend, accusing them of writing a bad check to buy a car.
The same year, Anna sued that dealership, claiming a wheel fell off of the vehicle that they had sold to her. Her case was eventually tossed out, and she reportedly never repaid the debt.
So she got a car, tried to accuse them of like, you almost killed us with this thing. They were like, you didn't pay for it.
It all gets settled out of court. Now people are wondering if Anna planned the whole incident with the hopes of reaching a big settlement with Wendy's.
Now the standing up screaming thing makes a little more sense. Then you're like replaying it in your mind.
The movie starts again. You see the scene in a different light.
Suddenly it's raining outside. Okay, the police investigation and media coverage begin to shift in that direction, and all eyes are now squarely on Anna.
Oh, honey. On April 6th, only about two weeks after Anna discovers the fingertip, quote, unquote, police get a warrant to search her home.
When reporters catch wind of this, they swarm Anna's property, hoping to get a statement. And she calls out to those reporters from her front door saying, quote, lies, lies, lies.
That's all I am hearing. They should look at Wendy's.
What are they hiding? Why are we being victimized again and again? OK, drama queen. I would like to I wish we could hold up performances side by side and see who's more convincing.
Because I feel like when people are cornered like this and then they're like, no, just going to double down and go bold yeah it's some of the worst acting you've always ever seen why do people think they can get away with shit like this though like they just think they're smarter than everyone right yes yeah but you're not it's like actually kind of dumb you think you're smarter than everybody but also you think you're a really good actor you think you're a believable actor and a good liar which is just like no no no and yet just eight days later on april 14th so she's like why am i being victimized everything's a lie yeah then her on april 14th her lawyer tells the associated press that anna is no longer pursuing legal action against wendy's citing quote great emotional distress because of the and all the media interests. You know what? I'm going to drop it.
You know what? I just, I don't even care. Forget it.
I don't even, like, want your chili. You're just being mean to me, so I guess I will give up this lawsuit where you put a severed finger in my chili.
I don't need a lifetime supply of chili. Like, just, I'll just, I'm fine.
Just forget it. Storm out of the kitchen.
You started this fight, lady. About a week later, on April 21st, both Anna and her husband, Jamie, are arrested during a raid on their home.
There's a colorful detail in the Chronicle story that covers this, where they say that Anna is reportedly watching Meet the Fockers on video when the police arrive. Okay.
Just to really paint that picture. Someone's PR was working overtime or they're like, what movie were they? Put that in.
Paint the whole picture. Maren included that and she was like, a useless yet colorful detail is how she phrased it.
So Anna's hit with two charges, felony grand theft connected to the allegations that she sold that trailer that wasn't hers. Oh, that thing's coming back coming back in oh they'll pull that right back in just to get as much stuff against her as they can okay but the other one and more importantly is the attempted grand theft for allegedly spreading the finger hoax at the expense of wendy's business her husband jamie is actually arrested the same night but totally separate he is not involved in that as far as know, he's arrested for failing to pay child support to his former partner.
So Anna's held on $500,000 bail, and the plans are in motion to extradite her from Nevada to California. For the Wendy's fraud alone, she's facing up to six years in prison and $2.5 million in restitution, which would be worth more than $4 million to pay.
So at this point, the case against Anna is mostly circumstantial. Prosecutors need more concrete evidence to secure this conviction.
And the biggest missing piece is the owner of the fingertip. Where are her children? Oh, I didn't even think of that.
Oh, I was thinking the fingertip belonged to one of them. Well, figuring out where it came from could be the key to proving Anna's involvement.
On May 4th, another tip comes into the Wendy's hotline. The caller claims to know exactly where the finger came from.
He names a man who recently lost part of his finger in a workplace accident in Nevada, who just so happens to work with Anna's husband. Oh, shit.

Okay.

Okay.

So I support her in that choice.

Yeah.

So San Jose police head to Nevada to question this man.

And sure enough, he's missing a finger, which he explains he lost in an on-the-job accident not long ago.

Then he drops a bombshell. He admits that he sold his severed finger to Anna's husband for $100 to settle a debt.
You didn't question why someone wants your fucking severed finger? Look, he wants that debt off the books. I'd just be like, sure.
I would fucking sell my severed finger, wouldn't you? Absolutely I mean. No questions asked? I guess NQA.
So but not only that Jamie allegedly told them that he and Anna planned to plant it in food. And according to legal filings Jamie even promised him a cut of the eventual settlement $250,000 as long as he kept quiet.
How many nightly lights have they had that night? Dude. Like he't, I'm on this guy's side.
I am too. The finger guy was kind of like, well, this horrible thing happened to me.
I don't have the top of my finger. They said they can't put it back on.
I got my $150,000. Fine.
Yeah. I owe this guy big time.
He says if I just give him the finger and then maybe a little more later on. I don't know.
And then as it unfolds, he's like, oh, Jesus Christ. I have to call these people.
This is too messy. Thank God there's a tip line.
1-800-Frosty. Oh, my God.
Call now. Okay, so now authorities soon confirm with DNA that the finger belongs to this man.
So now the case against Anna Ayala and her husband, Jamie, is solid. In September 2005, about six months after the whole saga began, the couple pleads guilty to conspiracy to file a false claim and attempted

It's a good idea. is solid.
In September 2005, about six months after the whole saga began, the couple pleads guilty to conspiracy to file a false claim and attempted grand theft. Jamie's sentenced to 12 years, while Anna gets nine, although later the nine is reduced to four on a legal technicality.
As a part of their sentencing, the couple is ordered to pay Wendy's more than $20 million in damages. Come on.
Which would be over $30 million today. But the company agrees to let them off the hook for this money as long as they never attempt to profit off of their hoax.
Damn. They should have put them in their commercials.
That would have been fucking hilarious. It's so wouldn't have.
As a person who was there. As a person who was there having to kind of like grapple with this weird like i know it's not but but also is this is this how we are this um vulnerable yeah to just kind of anything anyone wants to tell us anything okay even though wendy's is ultimately vindicated anna and jamie's scam cost dearly.
The New York Times reports, quote, the claims and the mass of news media attention it brought caused individual franchises in Northern California to lose 20 to 50 percent of their sales. According to the affidavit, Wendy's estimated it has been losing a million dollars a day since the incident was made public on March 22nd.
So in a desperate attempt to win customers back, Wendy's launches a free frosty weekend promotion, but the financial hit goes beyond corporate losses. Business at the San Jose Wendy's drops so drastically that several employees lose their jobs or have their hours cut.
Over time, though, Wendy's more or less moves on. So do Anna and Jamie, who eventually serve their sentences.
We don't know much about their lives post the Wendy's hoax, especially for Jamie, who returns completely to a private life. Never hear from him again.
But in 2013, Anna's back in the headlines. That June, her 26-year-old son accidentally shoots himself in the ankle with a gun, which he is not allowed to possess because he is a convicted felon.
But instead of just telling the truth, he and Anna file a false police report claiming he was shot by an unknown gunman. An officer working the case later tells ABC News, quote, they gave pretty specific information to the point we actually thought we had a suspect.
We interviewed this person. We conducted various forensic testing as far as gunshot residue goes.
So we treated it like the real deal. End quote.
Eventually, under police questioning, Anna Sun admits that they made the whole story up. They are both arrested and ultimately convicted on charges related to filing the false report.
So then again, for years, things are quiet until July of 2024, when the New York Times publishes an article with the innocuous title, quote, Harris narrows gap against Trump Times Siena poll finds. It's a standard piece on the latest 2024 presidential polling until people find buried within it a quote from a 58-year-old San Jose woman that catches their attention.
She tells the Times, quote, I'm a Democrat, but I've changed my mind after everything that's happened with Joe Biden's administration The Atlantic screen grabs the Times article and tweets, quote, And of course, that goes viral. And the New York Times now fully in damage control mode issues a retraction saying, quote, the Times removed comments from one voter in an earlier version of this article after learning that the person had been convicted in an extortion scheme in which she made fraudulent claims.
Okay. End quote.
So with that,

some 20 years since the first grabbing headlines alongside that quote,

crunchy fingertip,

this bizarre story of Anna Ayala comes to rest for now.

Anyway,

that tweet.

And then the accompanying article is what Alison sent me when she was like,

Hey,

and just in case, just, you know, keeping up with stuff. Did you know that this was going on? And that's when I sent it to Maren and I was like, oh my God, we have to tell the story.
And that is the story of the Wendy's severed finger hoax of 2005. I still have so many questions.
I know. Was it actually ever in her mouth? Did she have to go through with that part? Was there a crunch? I i bet no there's no way you would do that if you were napkins yes fake spitting fake spitting already in the napkin unless she went all the way with it well you kind of got it you know when you tell a lie it's best to get as close to the truth as possible how close are you willing to get no not that fucking close way did anyone get the reward money that's what i want to know too oh that's right like so many questions yeah i wonder well but i think the person whose finger it was if he called the tip line he should get the money no should he he was part of it i was he he wasn't think of the diners Think of what the diners who heard her screaming and began projectile vomiting in that Wendy's dining room.
Think of what they would want. Okay.
They should get the money. Let's give them the money.
I mean, if we could. Lifetime chili.
No. No.
Fix it. That's how you reverse it.
It's all so upsetting. Oh, oh man that was one for the ages that reminds me of one that like if you're going on a road trip with someone who doesn't listen to my favorite murder play that one play this one for them yes you know for sure just like just do it i mean i feel like there was like when we do that and just go through it's like not just hometowns but just like do you remember weird stuff from your childhood it's like that's how like thinking of those stories where i was like i remember when this happened and it was we would make jokes as we would drive by a wendy's we were constantly at like let's talk about it yeah please i don't think i ever stopped going to wendy's though it's fine it's so good there's no fingers well that show, ladies and gentlemen.
Thank you guys for listening on your road trip.

We appreciate you.

Now that I'm thinking about it, should I have done a warning at the beginning of this story?

What about chili?

No.

That's fine.

Do you hate chili?

Don't listen.

It's called my favorite murder.

So like if you can't handle a finger chili story, then get out of our kitchen where we're chopping off fingertips left, right and center.

We love you.

Stay sexy.

And don't get murdered.

Goodbye.

Elvis, do you want a cookie?

Ah. Our managing producer is Hannah Kyle Creighton.
Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo. This episode was mixed by Liana Squalache.
Our researchers are Maren McClashen and Allie Elkin. Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com.
Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at myfavoritemurder. Goodbye! Hello, I'm Tim McCurdy, host of the hit podcast, Cocktail College.
We have an exciting new episode to tell you about, which we recorded over at the Wild Turkey Distillery with third-generation associate master blender, Bruce Russell. We discuss the rich history of their whiskeys, as well as the exciting new launch of Wild Turkey 8-year-old into the US.
Find Cocktail College, your favourite drinks podcast, and part of the Vinepair Podcast Network on Apple, Spotify, and all major podcast platforms. Copyright 2025, Campari America.
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