Marian Keyes

James, huge news from the world of off-menu and indeed the world of the world.

Yes.

Ever heard of the Royal Albert Hall?

I have.

We've done live shows there.

And guess what?

We're doing more live shows there next year.

Sure, a lot of them are sold out already.

But we thought, hey, throw these guys a bone.

Let's put on one final Royal Albert Hall show in that run.

The show will be on Monday, the 16th of March.

It's going to be a tasting menu, a returning guest coming back, receiving the menu of another previous guest.

Those shows have been a lot of fun.

We cannot wait to do them live.

Who will we pull out of our little magic bag?

You'll have to come along on the 16th of March to find out.

If I'm correct in thinking, presale tickets go on pre-sale on the 10th of September.

Pre-sale tickets are 10th of September at 10 a.m.

And then the general sale is 12th of September at 10 a.m.

So if you miss out on the pre-sale, don't forget general sale is only two days later.

The day in between is for reflecting.

Get your tickets from royalalberthall.com or offmenupodcast.co.uk

welcome to the off-menu podcast opening the food delivery app of conversation and ordering a Chinese takeaway of friendship.

It's come to late.

It's a lazy night.

It's a lazy night sometimes you don't want to cook.

Order a Chinese Chinese takeaway.

That is Lazy, Lazy Ed Gamble.

I'm Lazy James Acaster.

And together we own a Lazy Dream restaurant in Lazyton.

In Lazy Town, where that guy does keep fit stuff with that kid.

Yeah, Sporticus.

Sporticus?

Shout out.

Together, we own a dream restaurant.

Every single week we invite in a guest, we invite him in, and we ask them their favourite Everstar.

Sporticus has thrown me off.

We invite them in.

We ask them their favourite Everstar make us a side dish and dreg night in that order.

And today, I think...

Not a favorite ingredient.

Fuck me.

Sporticus is really great.

Sporticus, man.

What was the name of the bad guy, Benito?

I wasn't.

No, he wasn't the bad guy, Sporticus, but the guy with

quite an imposing face.

Robbie Rotten.

And this week, our secret...

Oh, fuck me.

I've done it again.

This week, our guest, our special guest is Marion Key.

Jeez.

Sorry, Marion, if you're listening.

That is the worst we've ever done an intro, and we should re-record it.

But it was a laugh how bad it was yes i don't think she's listening to this she's she's going to be here do you think our guests listen back to it

not many of them i'm sure because it's an awful awful experience yeah they don't like it de niro yes de niro definitely listened back yeah yeah yeah de niro definitely did a wonderful writer yes uh phenomenal hit author james yeah so good very excited to have marion on the podcast we don't have enough like authors on the podcast that's because they're not normally a laugh yes sure and marion I've seen Marion on a lot of stuff and she's definitely

fun and she knows how to do a good interview.

Yeah, she's fantastic.

And a lot of authors are in good hands.

Just sit in a little room and they're up their own ass.

They are.

A lot of authors, if you're listening, which they won't be, because I bet they don't listen to anyone else but themselves, waffling on.

I don't need to listen to anyone else.

I've got all the characters in my head.

Give over.

Yeah, yeah.

Give over.

Benito whispered, give over.

Yeah, yeah.

Marion's new book, My Favorite Mistake, is out now.

It's already a multi-million copy bestseller.

It's mind-blowing, right?

Yeah.

Like, especially like this day and age, it's got to be even harder.

Like to sell a physical book

millions of times.

Yeah.

That's got to be good.

That's got to be a good book.

And what?

It's a 16th or 17th book?

She knows a way around a novel, man.

Yeah, big time.

And I'm happy to say that to her when she's in.

And of course, Marion has a podcast with Tara Flynn called Now You're Asking, which is available on BBC Sounds.

And the Walsh Sisters is currently being filmed for BBC.

At the minute, we don't know when it's coming out, but it's being filmed in Dublin right now based on one of Marion's novels.

Very excited to see it.

Yes, she's got a lot going on.

She's incredibly talented.

She's incredibly busy.

So we are very grateful that she's given us some of her time to talk about her dream menu.

Yum, yum, yum.

But before we bring her in, there is a special guest.

If she says it, then she gets kicked out.

Oh, no, sorry.

There is a secret ingredient.

And if she says it, she'll be kicked out of the dream restaurant.

Yes.

And this week, the secret ingredient is Timinto.

Timinto.

Yes, Timinto from Robert Popper's episode.

Robert Popper invented this.

Yes.

So the likelihood of it actually being chosen is

none, really.

What was it again?

Huh?

Timinto.

It was like tomato juice with Creme de Month or something, wasn't it?

It was tomato juice with Creme de Month.

He invented it.

Yeah, yeah.

Revolting.

Fictional, doesn't exist.

Yeah, yeah.

But then this is where Marion lives, is the world of fiction.

Yes.

So maybe she will pick a fictitious drink.

Maybe.

Maybe her author's brain will conjure it up out of the ether.

So maybe it's not conjuring it up if it, if someone else has already conjured it up, right?

Yeah, but like, it's not in the zeitgeist.

She doesn't know that.

It is in the zeitgeist.

Tominto.

It's on the off-menu podcast.

We are the zeitgeist, James.

Oh, yeah, I forgot that we dictate the zeitgeist.

Yes, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Fair enough.

We're really excited to speak to Marion.

I think we should just get on with it, James.

Let's just get on with it, Ed.

This is the off-menu menu of Marion Keys.

Welcome, Marion, to the Dream Restaurant.

Thank you for having me.

Welcome, Marion Keys, to the Dream Restaurant.

We've expected you for some time.

Did you enjoy

the genie welcome though?

I did.

I loved it.

It was quite good.

Yeah, multi-sensory experience.

Thank you.

Do you want to list the senses that you experienced on?

Touch.

Yeah.

Psychic vision.

Yeah.

Yeah, astral travelling.

Yeah, a lot.

It was a lot.

It was beautiful.

Yeah, it was intense and fabulous.

No sound, though.

No sound, no.

And couldn't see anything with my actual eyes, but in my head, I saw a lot.

Yeah, mainly emotional.

Yes, yes, yeah.

A psychic, spiritual, all of them things.

Yeah.

That's a big experience for the beginning of a podcast, isn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you think you'd ever write a story about a genie?

Write a book about a game.

Oh, yeah, I haven't yet, but after today, there's every chance.

Yeah.

I could inspire him.

Oh, yeah, or we could collaborate.

Well,

I think half of that book would be unreadable.

Yeah, my half.

Yeah.

Yeah, we'd bring you in to polish it and tidy it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I know what I'm doing.

I'll just turn down a collaboration with Marion Keys, man.

I thought would have ruined it.

Yeah, fair enough.

Are you kidding me?

Okay, we'll park it, but it was a lovely idea.

Yeah, you're not.

No, we could.

That's bad.

That's bad on my part.

I should just accept it.

To be honest, no, I'm an awful collaborator as well.

I'm too much of a people pleaser, also a secret control freak.

So I would say yes to everything you suggested, but then I would go away and I would stew with fury.

And,

you know, let's not.

Would you make the changes I suggest or would I get it back and it would be the same as when it was before?

You would just hope that I wouldn't notice.

Yeah.

And I would, yeah, I would send it back to you and I would say, thank you.

I have inputted all your changes all your suggestions you have made this a million times better than it originally was and you'd feel great yeah hopefully and i probably wouldn't know you probably wouldn't know people do that to me a lot yeah you know they um they say you know thank you for that suggestion um i'm i'm um how do you call it i'm an executive producer on a tv thing at the moment um that's been made of my books which means that i can make suggestions the walsh sisters yeah but they don't do anything you know they go thank you marion that's great that's really really good we're going to incorporate that we'll bring that up at our next meeting.

And then nothing changes.

But I feel kind of, I get the warm glow of, yeah, the TV people value me.

You know, so I still feel good.

Yeah.

Even though you know that they've done nothing based on that.

Yeah, exactly.

I know that I am being humored.

Yeah.

Yes.

But they're being kind about it,

which means a lot, really.

Is that how you work with your editors as well when you're writing a book?

Do they even, do they meddle at all now?

They do.

Oh, no, they do.

They do.

I have a lovely editor and she's been my publisher for like, I don't know, 27 years or something like that.

But I, I do as much as I can.

I don't kind of give them bits and pieces as I go.

I, you know, give them the final book.

And then she will come back with, I mean, but she does that snow thing of kind of like, oh my God, you have surpassed yourself with this one.

And then there's about...

three days and she goes we're just going to tinker around to do a couple of things me and and grace who is her assistant and then it comes back and it's pages and pages and pages of stuff and then i am in a blind fury and i stomp around the house and i stamp up and down the stairs because they're wooden and they make a lot of good noise and i say if they're so fecking fantastic at writing fecking books why don't they fecking do it and then and then i process it and i think well they want it to be as good as it can be so then i kind of go okay I will do two-thirds of what they've suggested, but they will never get me to do the blah, blah, blah.

And that's fine because they put in more stuff than they actually want because they they know i won't do it all and it's like yeah we have a really lovely working relationship because we understand those unspoken bits yes that like they know that i won't do it all and i know they've given me more things than they actually want so it's good but you'd never say that to each other because no they might know now

but um but but we still wouldn't say it some things don't need to be said face to face yeah it's like it really it works really well they're very kind to me and like, I want my books to be as good as they can be.

And like, you have to have somebody from the outside saying, do this, do that.

And oh, Christ, that doesn't work.

But in a way that kind of saves face.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And saves the relationship.

You still want to think it's all your own thing.

That's it.

But you, yeah, because it'd be awful if they came back and said a massive change.

Oh, God.

And you did it.

And then that was the thing that.

made it your best book.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, yeah.

But it's almost as bad when if they came back and said, thrilling, thrillingly perfect, not a single word needs to be changed.

Because that can't be the case.

You know, there has to be some pain with the praise.

There has to be.

And when

you've turned in a book and they've been like, oh, we think this is fixed in here?

Of all the little mistakes you may have made, do you have a favorite mistake?

Ha ha.

Nice one.

Segue.

Very, very good.

A segue.

That's a good.

That's a good one.

It's excellent.

Come on.

No, it was good.

It was magnificent.

Come on.

I didn't see it coming.

Yeah.

I don't think we needed a segue like that necessarily because we were already talking about writing books and

stuff.

So we moved from the general to the specifics.

Yeah, yeah.

You would have just gone with, well, this new book.

Yes, yeah.

Well, that's why I'm not.

We know where we are with that.

You see, segues.

But it was seamless.

Yes.

Yeah.

Mine was seamless.

You wouldn't describe as what's happening now as a seam?

Well, that's because you're just you.

You created the seam.

Yeah.

We've moved, we've turned a page with you.

Yeah.

Speaking of turning page.

Oh, he's done it.

There you have it.

Fantastic.

That was a good one.

There we go.

Yes.

No notes.

Exactly.

That was good.

It was brilliant.

It was beautiful.

Yeah.

That's what it was.

We should talk about brand.

Okay.

Okay.

My favourite mistake.

All right.

Okay.

How do you even begin writing a book like this?

Yes.

Oh, God.

All right.

Okay.

I started with, I always do, I started with one character.

It's usually a woman and I usually want to write about whatever is kind of affecting women in the contemporary world.

So this is about a woman who did a post-COVID midlife pivot.

She was working in New York, had a fabulous job doing PR in cosmetics and had a lovely boyfriend who was way too nice to her.

And

she was living in New York and she decided that she didn't like any of it anymore.

But she's 48 and well, she decides she's going to start life again.

And so she moves to a small town in the west of Ireland.

And it's, okay, it's about lots of things.

It's about what it's like to be in midlife and kind of all the things you've done as a younger person that you just wish that you could go back and change.

I mean, I spend an awful lot of my time, especially about four in the morning, just time traveling and wishing I could literally go back and just undo a lot of the things I did.

And And it's painful kind of learning to live with the things I can't change.

But yeah, her name is Anna.

And there's this man that she's had this kind of 20 year kind of on, well, it was never fully on off, but they were always kind of in love with each other.

But at different times, they both got married to other people.

Now neither of them are married and they are working in the same place.

And then it's also about female friendship and the mythology, the kind of the feeling that like a female friendship can never.

You can never not be friends with your best friend, that like you are obliged to be friends with them from the day you were born to the day you die.

and that if anything goes wrong you are a freak and a weirdo and why are you so terrible so it's it's kind of about all of those things and it's i mean i wrote it because we were just coming out of lockdown and then fecking Russia invades Ukraine and I just thought, oh, Christ, the world is just going to continue to be awful for the foreseeable.

So I wanted to write something hopeful and comforting and kind of, you know, about people being nice to each other and about community rather than people being awful.

So that was kind of, I wanted to kind of create a happy, safe, because it takes me two years to write a book.

So I needed a nice place for the two years for me to spend my time.

So that's kind of it.

It's really interesting that thing, isn't it, that you can see what people really enjoy and what people crave from literature and, you know, all the media when what's going on in the world is absolutely horrendous.

They're drawn to something more comforting that they can just lose themselves in.

Yeah, well, you see, I, I mean, I read an awful lot.

And I was thinking, well, what am I reading?

What do I like?

What kind of gives, gives me escape and comfort?

And it was that.

Like it was love stories, it was stories about family.

And it was, you know, there can be no novel without some kind of profound unpleasantness because there is no point otherwise.

But I wanted to write something that just generally felt positive or hopeful or just kind of acknowledged that human beings, although we are fundamentally awful, that we are capable of kindness and,

you know, comforting each other.

And I think definitely nobody wants to read about how the world really is.

I mean, I'm in profound denial about how dreadful it all is, but still, it just leaks at you, doesn't it?

But yeah, you're right.

I mean, I will seek something uplifting rather than the grimness.

Because all I have to do is look at the headline of a newspaper and it's like, thank you.

That's the entire month ruined for me.

That was a terrible mistake looking at that.

You see, and I do Sudokus in

the Times every day.

And so like, I have to do this thing where like I'm tapping like a, you know, like putting my finger on the machine and I'm trying to get into the Times, but like avoiding any of the actual news, trying to find the bit where it says puzzles.

And then once I get to the puzzle bit and go, okay, well, I'm safe.

I'm safe.

I'm safe.

But at the same time, words have jumped out at me like Trump, you know, Putin, awfulness, terribleness.

And

that's enough to kind of rattle me for the entire day.

Now, we're talking about books.

Okay.

Now you're talking is the name of your podcast.

Oh, no, no, now you're asking.

Fuck shit.

No, it's fine.

Fuck.

No, no, that's good because we can make a king of it.

No, I was really pleased with that segue.

I knew I was going to do it, and I actually formulated it in my head.

Now we're asking about books, but now you're talking.

That's what I was going to do.

Now I've fucking fucked it.

Do it again.

Do it again.

Do it again.

Here's what you don't know as well, Marion.

Before you came in, I messed up the intro loads.

Like, I was messing up my words in the intro.

So clearly, something's happening my brain today no I love you I'm like that you know and look at how you berate yourself no no no you have to be nicer to yourself yeah yeah we're all doing our best and you are brilliant your head moves so fast you are so clever and so witty

and this is what happens sometimes that like when you're like that just the words are all coming too fast and it's like a bottleneck trying to get them through your brain and out to your mouth and they just get mixed up it's like people trying to leave a stadium with james the words yes that's exactly what it's like.

It is exactly what it's like.

Although, if you are me and you travel with the Irish team, or you know, when you go to see the Irish team, like in Farnies, they lock us in till the local teams have left.

Yes, which is so mean because Irish football fans are delicious.

You know, there was one place, where was it, Slovakia, which is on my list of like no-fly zones forever and ever again.

They locked us in for hours afterwards and then they left us leave.

They let us leave.

And there was like men with machine guns watching us we're like excuse me do you know who we are we're irish fans they're treating you like you're english i'm afraid so i think they got they got us mixed up so anyway how did we get on to this the bottleneck yes the fun

yes the bottleneck and then before that we got into that because of the now you're asking

yes podcast

yes yes yes now you're asking is a podcast that you're doing with tara flynn yes do you know tara she's a comedian never met tara No, never met Tara.

Of course, I'm aware of Tara, absolutely.

I've heard her name many, many times.

But tell us a bit about now you're asking.

Okay, it's sort of

a problem show.

So people write in with various kind of dilemmas.

Like, so to be like,

I have just met a new fella and I am less young than I used to be.

And what's the story with pubic hair?

Like, for example, would be one of the things.

That's a lot in one question, isn't it?

It's a lot of backstory in the question.

I know, I think it kind of gets straight to the heart of the issue.

Yeah.

But then others would be like, how many minutes should a tea bag be left in a cup before you have the perfect cup of tea?

This kind of business.

What's the story with Peabic hair?

Do they all end with...

And yeah, and also,

P.S.

Yeah, because that's what they really wanted to know, but they had to disguise it because they weren't as brave as the first person.

Yeah.

Yeah, things like that.

So, and like, it's a mix of kind of fun stuff and really dark stuff.

I mean, this poor woman wrote to us, I mean, she had been groomed by, I don't know what they're called in the Church of England, would be a vicar or a reverend or, I don't know.

Anyway, when she was a child and a teenager, she was groomed by their local, whatever he was, vicar man.

And as soon as she was 16, like you waited until she was 16.

And it's just.

It's horrific.

And she had never told anybody because her parents, her family were very into the church.

And to be trusted with her story, I mean, it was a huge privilege.

So we're very, very careful and very aware of how vulnerable people are who write in.

So it is a mix of the dark and the light.

And Tara's very funny.

She's also very, very kind.

And we record it in my front room.

So it's...

it's very intimate and chatty.

And

maybe you know the producer, he's Steve Doherty.

And like he put me and tyra together and the whole thing you know sometimes something beautiful just lands in your lap like it's it's it that's that um so we've done four series now and we're hoping that we'll be asked to do a fifth one what what would you if you had a question ed uh they needed answer and then because we can do one now

if you had something that like a something that you need what is your life what is the story with bubic hair oh Ed

not even doing the con not even giving the context like the first question.

No, I'm cutting to the heart of the issue.

Come on, two sentences before.

I don't think I have anything to do with that.

Well, Ed's actual thing with pubic hair is that he does trim his pubes, but he lets them grow out to a point where he just says he looks like a woolly mammoth before he cuts them again.

Is there a way that Ed can motivate himself to keep on top of it more?

That's a good question.

Yes, that's a very good question.

Don't ask me how I know all that.

I treat it like a sheep.

Yeah, all right then.

So it's kind of seasonal.

Seasonal, yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, you can't be shaving the sheep the whole time.

You know, I mean, there's nothing there to do.

Yeah, you know, I would

do a job.

Yeah, I do a job a lot, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what I do.

Yeah, yeah.

But James is suggesting this is an issue.

Well,

you've expressed it as an issue in the past.

Well, I don't know whether, you know, it's difficult to know what's normal with that sort of thing, is it?

Because people aren't as open as us three.

You could ask somebody, not me.

Not you.

Yes.

That's a great response to a question.

Yes.

Ask somebody.

You should ask somebody.

Not me.

We're moving on.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We have lots of questions for you, Marion, of course.

But they're all food-based questions.

Oh, yeah.

It's rare we get to the pubes before the food.

So hatefully, when we ask you, would you like still a sparkling mortar?

You don't say you should ask someone that.

Not me.

Not me.

Also, we're now in the dream restaurant, and the last question you want to hear in the dream restaurant is, what's the story with this pubic hair?

Yeah.

Yeah, no, that is true.

Yes.

I don't want any pubic hair with my stiller sparkling water, and that's okay.

Of course.

I mean, I know it's an added extra.

But yeah, thank you.

Thank you.

Just let's keep it simple.

Someone came to my house the other day, a much older person, and they left a pube

on the toilet seat.

And it was the biggest pube I'd ever seen.

Lord God.

Do your pubes get bigger when you get older?

I don't know.

Ask somebody, not me.

He's really, really long.

He's long.

But undeniably a pube.

Are you sure?

Yeah, 100%.

Much older person.

Much older person.

How old?

Like 70s.

Yeah.

Longest pubes I've ever seen.

Still a sparkling water, Marion.

I don't know.

It depends.

I mean, okay, I'll have sparkling because it's a special time because I don't drink, so I have to kind of take my thrills where I get them.

So, yeah, we go sparkling.

I know I heard Emily Campbell saying that you're a psychopath if you pick sparkling water.

But if I'm a psychopath, then bring it on.

So be it.

So be it.

Give me the sparkling motor.

You're trying to look at the rest of you.

I'm always doing quizzes to see if I am.

And

yeah, I do a lot of online quizzes.

I could easily be.

I could.

Yeah.

But what do the quizzes say?

Yeah, they're saying, yeah, you could be.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it's because I don't like dogs.

It's not that I don't like them, but I'm afraid of them.

But if you say that,

people are so judgy about the non-dog lover yes yeah they're really quick to shunt you into the psychopath category which i think is unfair i think it shows insecurity on their part yeah i think you know like each to own whatever people love and like great but as soon as you like something and you say anyone who doesn't like this thing is something wrong with them yeah you're like okay they're a psychopath they're psychopaths for saying i was psychopath yeah or they're worried that like dog lovers get viewed because like dogs get viewed as more basic than cats and all of this and that's just you know I've got cats but I'm not thinking that that makes yeah that's better that I don't think oh cats are this for sophisticated people and dogs are for idiots yeah and there's a coincidence there that I gestured towards Ed for cats who has a cat and Ben who has a dog for the dog but like but like I don't think that

but I think some some dog owners uh like by Ben think oh everyone must think I'm a right dummy because I love dogs so much because dogs are so easy to get the affection from you know but we don't think that no she said uncertainly.

No, no, nobody is a psychopath for liking or not liking cats and dogs.

Yeah, yeah.

It's when, yeah.

It depends why, I guess.

Yeah.

No, I'm just, I'm afraid of dogs.

Yeah.

I was afraid of most things.

Have you?

Psychopaths aren't afraid?

Psychopaths aren't afraid, but they are, what's the word?

Superficially charming.

And

I think I fall into that category.

You're charming.

You're very charming.

Charming, I guess.

Thank you, but it's superficial.

Yeah.

Awful.

That's a big thing to find out at the top of the interview.

Yeah, straight away.

It's all been a lie so far.

It's all a sham.

Do you like other animals?

I don't like any animals, no.

Wow.

Are you scared of them all?

I'm either scared or I don't like them.

I'm, I am sort of scared of cats.

I'm really sorry, but I don't like them either.

It's okay.

Yeah, and they don't like me.

Yeah, we have a mutual antipathy.

Have you had experiences where they've been shitty to you?

They give me looks.

Yeah.

Kind of, they look at me and they go, I see you.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

You and your superficial charm.

Yeah.

Me.

Cats often, though, if someone doesn't like cats, I've certainly found this with my cats.

Oh, yeah, that they'll paw you.

Then they'll be like, they'll be like, well, I'm sitting on you then.

Yeah, they do.

And sometimes they sit on the back of the couch and then they jump onto my shoulder.

And if you're afraid of things,

that can be unpleasant.

Yeah, something coming from behind you and sitting on your shoulder.

Yeah, and then they turn around and they give me the look.

Kind of,

gotcha.

No, they're awful.

Sorry, sorry.

Sorry, cat lovers.

Sorry, dog lovers.

Please don't apologize.

Sorry, lizard lovers.

You don't like lizards?

Oh, my God, no.

No, I don't like anything like that.

No.

A single animal you would...

No, no.

I like babies.

That too.

Yeah.

Yeah, that would do.

Basically, pets.

If a baby crawled onto your shoulder, you're fine with it.

Oh, I'd be thrilled.

No, I would.

I'd love that.

I'd love that.

Yeah.

Really?

Oh, God, I'd love it.

Yeah, I like that.

I love if a baby looked at you and went, oh, I love.

Oh, yeah.

I'd love a baby who could talk.

Yeah.

Yeah, I would.

Yeah.

A child.

Well, no, a baby.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because then you get to snuggle them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Anyway.

A child isn't a baby that can talk, Ed.

Well, there's probably a point where a baby starts to talk before it's, you know, you know what I mean?

Like

there's a crossover.

Yeah, it's an almost toddler.

Would that be kind of where we're.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Still look, you still might go, look at this baby.

Yes, infant child.

But also they're saying toddler.

They're saying some little

words.

Yeah, I love when they start talking.

Yeah.

Pop logs on bed.

Pop logs on bed, man.

Oh, bread.

You looked so shocked at me.

That's the first time you've not been able to get through it.

Because you looked at me like,

what has happened?

What have I done?

Yeah, because I didn't hear it, I didn't know what you were saying.

Pop-loves on bread, Marion Keynes.

Pop-loves on bread.

Bread.

Bread.

Bread, James.

You looked genuinely.

I've never had someone look hurt by it before.

No, no, I wasn't hurt.

You looked like I'd hurt your feelings.

No, no, I was confused.

Also, you said you're scared of a lot of things.

I did.

You were shouting abuse at me like people sometimes do in the street.

So what I did hurt your feelings.

That's what that was.

No, no, I'm always interested.

I want to know what it is that's

so that we could have a conversation.

No, no, no.

Bread, thank you very much.

Who's shouting abuse at you in the song?

I don't know.

Just

people.

We'll beat them up.

Oh, thank you.

It's been pretty tough.

I stood up to Stephen Graham recently on the podcast when he came on the episode.

No, he didn't.

He came on.

Who's Stephen Graham?

He's an actor.

He's like a real tough guy, or so he likes to think.

And he came on here.

Is he from Liverpool?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, I know him.

He's great.

Yeah.

Stop.

Yeah, it was on the podcast.

Everyone's heard it.

James got torn apart.

Everyone's heard it.

I've stood up to him on the podcast.

Yeah, good, good, good, good, good.

Yeah, thank you.

You know the phrase, he tore him a new one?

You know that phrase?

He did.

It was my public.

Stephen tore James so many new ones.

He was covered in bum holes.

No.

Oh, no.

It was the other way around.

Yeah, the other way around.

He was like a Colander.

You would like some bread?

Bread.

I'd like lots of bread.

Thank you.

Lovely.

Any particular type of bread?

If I only have to pick one,

there's a hotel in Ireland called Hotel Europe.

It's in Kerry.

And they have a treacle and Guinness bread.

And I swear to God,

I mean, I would just eat that for my entire dinner, but I realize I have to say other things as well.

I really like bread.

I really like bread.

And I really like butter.

Bread and butter together.

You see, I have a funny relationship with food in that like I don't enjoy being hungry.

And I like to move from the state of hungry to not hungry as quickly and efficiently as possible.

But I am the absolute opposite of a foodie.

Like my idea of abject misery is, oh Christ, being like trapped in a restaurant, having signed up to a nine course tasting menu.

It's like being taken hostage.

Like it is like, you know, and I just want the people outside to pay whatever the ransom is so that I can be allowed to go free.

Because when the bread comes, I eat so much of it that I've lost all interest in whatever comes afterwards.

Yeah.

All right, so we'll stick with one bread for this because I have to say other things as well afterwards.

Isn't that correct?

Do you want us?

So when we serve you the bread, do you want us to try and sort of keep an eye on how much you have to do it?

Limit it.

Yeah.

Only maybe bring one piece.

Okay.

Yeah.

How about this place again?

It's in Killarney in County Kerry.

It's called the Hotel Europe.

I go every Easter with my brothers and sisters and their babbies and my mother and they have an easter bunny hunt on a sunday and it's just it's lovely it's my happy happy time how do you feel about the easter bunny though i

i mean it's funny because that the younger nieces and nephews cry their eyes out um whenever it comes near but it usually has a basket of cream eggs and kinder eggs so i like it for that i think i will make eye contact with it while also trying to steal some of the things from the basket anything where there's an opportunity for chocolate or sugar, I embrace.

Yeah.

So the Easter bunny is grand because although it is an animal, there are nice things associated with its arrival.

So if the Easter bunny, just you turn around on your shoulder?

I wouldn't be delighted, but then I would look down to see if the basket was there.

And if the basket was there, then I would feel calm, calm, calm.

Yes.

But it scares the kitties.

Really does.

It's so weird.

They're terrified.

Yeah.

Like they cry.

Like i've loads of photographs of them like with the easter bunny with his arms around them and they're crying their eyes out was weird because what what would they imagine the easter bunny was like because smaller like an actual bunny smaller yeah yeah definitely definitely not this huge yoke with like ears that are like eight feet high and and it's all a bit mangy the costume because it's the same costume every year you know like you can't be buying new ones like easter bunny costumes aren't cheap i'd imagine and also there's something weird weird going on with the eyes I don't think the eyes on the bunny is where the eyes are on the person I think the person is looking out through the mouth it's all a bit odd when you think about it yeah yeah

but then they get the chocolate as well so then they stop crying yeah but that's not it's not nice in the main no it's not yeah I mean we sort of find it cute and funny but it's not nice for the children no yeah that's why you're taking photos because it is funny that's it that's it yes it's traumatizing for them it is a bit i suppose yeah but good for them toughens them up.

Is this bread warm?

Oh, God, yes, please.

Yes, thank you.

And what sort of butter do you want with it?

Just ordinary Irish Kerry Gold butter.

Thank you.

Yes.

That's our test to check our guests are actually Irish.

If they don't say Kerry Gold, we know they're lying.

Yes, I am a fraud.

I don't know how many guests from Ireland have not chosen Kerry Gold.

Stop it.

But it's not many.

Yeah.

Okay, that's good.

Do they really say it?

That's so sweet.

Oh, yeah.

Kerry Gold comes up a lot with our Irish guests.

It's so nice.

Like, you know, I'm as English as I come.

But I lose respect for those people.

When an Irish guest comes on and doesn't choose Kerry Gold, I think you should be ashamed of yourself.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Your dream starter.

Okay, right.

My husband makes it.

I don't really know how to describe it.

He's in the building.

Shout out.

He is.

I have actually come with it written down somewhere.

I might have to refer to my notes.

It is.

You'll be able to hear this as well.

Yes.

He's in the next room.

You can hear it.

Okay.

It is called a tomato and ricotta salad with coriander seed and lemon oil.

But that sounds really kind of dull.

These are lovely tomatoes.

They're heritage tomatoes.

Like they're funny round colors, purple, yellow, and they taste of things.

You know, the way like most tomatoes taste of cotton wool.

These actually have a flavor.

And it says ricotta cheese here, but it's not.

He uses.

God,

manchego, manchego.

Yeah, which is a hard

Spanish cheese.

And then he does sourdough croutons soaked in olive oil.

And they're honest to God.

And he does some funny sort of tomatoey reduction business.

And it's so delicious.

What's the lettuce?

Is there lettuce in it and stuff?

No, it's just the tomatoes and the croutons.

Oh, okay.

And then the other things thrown over.

There's basil and maybe spring onion sometimes.

But

he's one of these people who does, he does things with whatever's in the fridge, you know?

Great.

You need someone like that in the house because it's not me it's really not that's brilliant it's like a like a fancy elevated caprese salad it is it is yes i love that the coriander seed in there sounds yeah because he toasts them oh he's one of these people that does all those things where it makes me really anxious if i have to do more than two things at once I just kind of short circuit and I can't do anything and I have to sit and cry while the people who are expected come over and there's nothing for them to eat.

I'm just not that person.

Also, I love a salad where every ingredient, I'm like, I'd look forward to eating that.

Yes.

Because so many salads sometimes, if there's cheese in other salads, I'm like, let's be honest, I'm picking through and finding the cheese.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, you're exactly right.

It is one of those kind of, it's like a jewel box and everything is delicious and fresh and tastes of things.

That sounds so good.

And good tomatoes are very hard to find.

They are.

They are hard to find.

As is a fella, how did you meet?

You're gorgeous.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're on fire.

Loved it.

Loved it.

Another seamless segue.

There's a queue in the stadium now for people to get out.

It's gone very ordered, hasn't it?

It's really

one quarter at a time.

That's it.

That's it.

And everyone is just so happy to do it as you say.

Yeah.

Okay.

My flatmate worked with him.

This is 4,000 years ago.

This is a very long time ago.

I'm with him for 30 years.

And he is lovely.

He's really, really nice to me, which is rarer than you might think and um we have great fun and when i met him he had a fabulous job and i had a crappy one and then my books got published and and he gave up his fabulous job and and he is my assistant also my chef my personal chef yeah great you can have those salads whenever you want whenever i want exactly

yes i ring down in the morning and i i say my order for the day yeah and uh and then he goes to the shops He doesn't.

And buys the things.

No, no, no, it's not like that.

I used to think I had my dream job, but now I've realized my dream job is my wife becoming a worldwide smash novelist and me becoming her personal chef.

Yeah.

That's it.

You like that?

That's what I want to do now.

Do you have any advice for Ed's wife how to become a renowned novelist?

Well, if she could write some books, that would become a good one.

That would be a good start.

That would be a good start, wouldn't it?

Yeah.

Ask somebody, not me.

No, I mean, yeah, like anyone who wants to write, there are no kind of, you don't need anyone's permission.

I think I just want to cook more.

I think that's what I'm doing.

Oh, really?

Okay, well.

That's what it is for me.

I'll just cook for her more.

Yeah.

Doesn't matter if she's a novelist or not.

Yeah.

It doesn't matter.

It doesn't.

Yeah, it's true.

No, she's got a holipper at the end of the day.

Yeah.

Be a novelist.

Does she have a job?

Yes, she does.

This is fine.

This is fine.

Yeah.

You can cook.

Yeah, I'll just do it.

do her job.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

That's fine.

Yeah.

You've got to quit your job.

Oh, yeah, good point.

I've got to quit my job.

Would you mind?

You can do it now to Benito.

I guess, yeah.

How did you notice now?

I think I would mind maybe quitting my job.

Okay, then don't.

Don't quit.

Yeah.

Just cook more.

Just cook a bit more.

Yeah, yeah.

Yes.

We don't have to go to the extremes every time.

No.

No, we can just do things in a small way.

We can just find our own way with it.

We don't have to do exactly what you and your husband do.

We don't.

We don't.

Exactly.

I thought I was going to get him to quit.

I I thought I could do it.

Yeah, yeah.

I thought I could get him to hand his notice.

Oh, no.

Come now.

No, the pair of you are beautiful together.

The three of you.

Not the three of us.

He's fucking up all week.

He's been fucking up all week, Maria.

Your dream main course.

Okay, I don't eat meat and or fish.

Not for any reasons other than they give me the ick.

And it's very, very difficult.

You're holding up this thing about animals here yeah

which yeah off the board yeah anything that reminds me that they were once alive and swimming around or running around just distresses me terribly but it's really hard to be a vegetarian because the only thing they ever give you is mushrooms and i also hate mushrooms um they taste like death they taste like sort of mulch and like they've been buried in forests with rotting leaves above them it's just miserable anyway there's a place in ireland called Woodruff.

It's a place, it's a restaurant in Dublin.

And they do a thing with butternut squash where they roast the butternut squash in a sort of a dry stew with chickpeas.

Now, I know this sounds maybe not thrilling, but it is delicious.

And they use, hang on, Clysee, now, Ras el Hanouch,

some sort of collection of Moroccan spices, I think.

And it is on it, they roast the squash so that it is almost sweet and it's all gone sort of caramelized.

and it's honest to God.

And it is so soft and fabulous.

It's a pleasure to eat instead of kind of the misery of vegetarian food, which is usually such a kind of an afterthought.

And this place, this woodruff place, they also do meaty things like, I mean, you see, my husband will eat anything and kind of the more awful, the better.

Like we were in Estonia and he ate bear

and we were in France and they had this thing on the menu that we eventually translated as cock's comb.

You know the thing on the rooster's head?

Oh, yeah.

A chicken hat.

A chicken hat.

Exactly.

I didn't know you could eat the chicken hat.

Yeah, well, neither did we until we saw it there.

And so he ordered it and it caused like...

a sensation in the restaurant.

Like all the French people came out to talk to him.

And, you know, first of all, the maitre D had to come out and persuade him not to have it.

And then the manager of the whole hotel came out and tried to talk him down.

And then like, and then when it finally came and he was eating it, like everyone, like the kitchen porters, like people came in from the streets to watch the roast beef eating

the disgusting French chicken hat.

But anyway, woodruff, they don't exactly do that, but they do other things like, um,

well, duck, I suppose, doesn't seem that kind of revolutionary, but um, it kind of is repulsive to me.

Or what's that other thing?

Venison, you know, they do that as well.

They do nice things for meat eaters is what I'm trying to say, but they don't leave the likes of me behind.

So what would we call it?

Squash with

chickpea soup.

It's stew.

Yeah.

With that salhanut.

That's it.

Without salanoo.

Roasted.

Because the whole thing is roasted.

I haven't roasted a butternut squash in a while.

That was what I used to be doing that pretty regularly and having a good old time.

They're a bugger to chop up, though.

And to peel.

But initially.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They are.

That first cut into a butternut squash is.

Yeah, it's really difficult.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Which is why you should go to Woodruff.

I am not in the pay of these people at all.

They're just, they're nice.

It's a nice small restaurant where they do like lovely, lovely food and they're nice to you.

And they play lovely music.

What kind of music are we talking about?

Well, the jam and

that sort of thing.

They play the jam.

They play the jam.

They play the jam and kind of 80s, good 80s music, you know?

Is that important to you in a restaurant setting?

The music?

Well, yeah.

I mean, it's awful to have sort of musac on but it is really nice the cure is another one they play you know you're sitting there oh my god i remember this and yeah it kind of adds to the whole it uplifts me you know i remember what it was like being 20 and yeah i do um do you ever listen to music when when you're writing i'm sure you've been asked this a lot yeah i don't um does it ever inspire you

Sometimes.

It depends on what I'm writing.

Not really, to be honest with you.

It's not, it's just that I don't really notice it.

I just kind of go into my own head.

Like, I don't need silence or anything like that.

But it's not really part of the experience either.

So when it comes to something like The Walsh Sisters, which is going to have music in there somewhere, TV shows, do you think like, oh, okay, that book that I wrote, what music do I think would fit with that world?

And can I, like, you know, throw some ideas?

There was a little bit in...

in both my favorite mistake and um and the previous book again rachel because both of them featured featured these men who used to be, they called them the real men, who used to listen to a lot of Led Zeppelin and stuff because they were just, you know, that type, stuck, stuck in the past.

And so, I did.

I listened to some and to some, who to call them?

The Doobie Brothers.

Yeah, I felt, yeah, it did kind of conjure up like what they looked like.

But I would really like to talk about the music for the TV show if you would be of interested.

Do you know C Matt?

Yes, we had her on the podcast.

She's on this podcast on that scene.

God, and did she choose Kerry Gold?

Of course she did.

She may well have done.

That woman is a goddess.

Okay, she wrote a song and one of the lines in it was The Marion Keys of It All.

And I am a not young and she is a young.

And I was so thrilled that she knew about me.

And then I listened to her and then, and like, I.

I just, I love her so much.

I love her attitude and I love her, her energy and her, and she's positive and she's fearless.

And I mean she's an absolute star but anyway so they were talking the producers of the tv show about you know using music for the episodes and hopefully irish musicians so um she and i had become pals and so i asked her if she would allow one of her songs maybe the marion key song to be used and um and she said she would be thrilled and now there was talk that she might write an actual special new song wow for i know

i know that's not really what you asked me but it was something that i really enjoyed yeah like talking about yeah it's so exciting because she is just

she's just remarkable she's a complete one-off and i love her and and kind of anyone who has encountered her in any way seems to love her she's just beautiful energy did you see seem out on the George Holland Hooter Nanny?

I didn't because I didn't.

Yeah, because it's on too late.

But like,

I didn't.

But I'm so glad because that seemed to have converted an awful lot of people who didn't know about her.

Well, I mean, we were watching it, yeah, and we knew.

Obviously, we interviewed her and knew of her music anyway.

But um, this is gonna sound like I'm slagging off everyone else on the Hooter Nanny, and I basically am.

She was so much better than everyone else in a way that was quite embarrassing for everyone else.

That's that's what I'll say.

And if Bob Geldoff wants to come at me, you will

never mind him.

Your dream side dish.

Oh, okay, right.

How do we hassle, hassle back potatoes?

Yes, I nearly jumped in and said hoff, and then I thought

that's a hot potato.

I nearly said, No, I nearly said this for hassle hoff.

Yeah, thank god I didn't.

Yeah, hassle back potatoes.

Now, do you know what they are?

I think you do.

Great, please, for the listeners.

Yeah, okay, right.

They are a potato and they have loads and loads and loads of tiny thin slices cut into them, but the bottom of the potato is still intact.

So it's kind of like a little fan, a little accordion.

And into the little cleats, you put like tons of butter, kerrygold, of course.

And you can do, I mean, you can do other things.

You can do beeswoot like that as well.

But like, I mean, why would you when you could do a potato?

That I would love that so much.

Heavily seasoned.

With salt.

Yeah.

Tons of salt.

Thank you.

There's no need for the pepper.

Thanks.

Okay.

Not a fan of the pepper?

I don't mind it, but I think potatoes, leave them alone.

Salt and butter is all you need.

You know, why rune something that's already magnificent?

Perfect.

Yeah.

What sort of size potato are you?

Oh, very big one.

Very big.

Massive one.

Massive.

Yeah.

Massive.

But a foot long, if at all possible.

And very, very, very slender slices.

Yeah, if the Hasselback potato comes along, I want to see the seasoning on it.

I want there to be like the more slices, the better.

Yes.

And I want there to be crispy little bits of seasoning all over.

Those crystals of salt, not the kind of the minuscule mingy table salt.

You want some of that Himalayan pink salt.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know.

Great big handfuls of it.

Yeah.

That's it.

With the colour.

So you're having kerrygold butter in every little slip.

Every single one.

So you can get a pack of butter in there, right?

Easily.

Oh, easy.

That would be the dream.

Yeah.

Well, this is the dream.

Is there a place where you've had the best Hasselback potatoes?

I know this is going to sound, and I'm really sorry.

My husband is fantastic at this point.

I'm going to have to make one tonight.

This guy.

Keep up with this guy.

This guy's leaving me in the goddamn dust.

No, it's just inspiration.

Yeah.

Come on, tell us about some of the things you've made, please.

Come on.

Yeah, I don't know.

Chicken.

I don't know.

Chicken.

Say it again.

Chicken.

Chicken.

What way?

Rose.

Come on.

Rose.

You cannot beat a lovely roast chicken, so I'm told.

Lamb.

Lamb.

Lamb.

So lamb can be lovely, so I'm told.

Slow-cooked lamb.

Yeah, slow cooked.

What about some of your veggie stuff?

Yeah.

But like.

Now you're asking.

Oh, yeah,

we talked with Mira Soda about it.

Loads from Mira Soda's book.

The tomato curry.

Tomato curry.

Yeah.

Tomato curry.

Yeah, yeah.

Telling me.

Yeah.

It's tomato curry.

How do you do it?

Come on now.

Don't be shy.

It's quite a complicated recipe because you have to have two pans going at the same time and then mix them.

There you go.

But yeah.

It's delicious.

It's delicious.

Dandan noodles.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

With a lot of tahini and blackberry.

A lot of tahini.

Oh, Oh, God, tahini is the most wonderful thing.

But to have two pans going at the same time, I mean, that's elite stuff.

Oh, yeah.

Could your husband do that?

I don't think he can, you know.

I don't think he can.

He's a one-pan man.

You're a one-pan man.

Yeah.

Is he, and you're a two-pan man.

Yes.

Is he?

Yeah.

You're fabulous.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mary.

If I was,

I would trust a one-pan man more than a two-pan man.

What are you talking about?

I think

one's not enough for this guy.

No, I love the show of dexterity with the two-pan man.

I think

a two-pan man might get bored in a monogamous relationship.

I'm a two-pan man, one-man band.

Do you want David Hasselhoff there?

Oh, God, I'd really rather not.

Do you mind?

I was in a room with them once.

Yeah.

He was singing a song.

It was very odd.

Is that the one about his car?

Do you remember that one?

It was a little bit of a shot.

Did he do that on the Berlin Wall?

Did he do it on the Berlin Wall?

Well,

he played in Berlin the day the wall came down, right?

Because he's massive in Germany.

He's massive in Germany, yeah.

I shouldn't be mean about the chap.

No, no, no, no.

it's fine.

I wish him well.

I wish him well.

Yes.

But no, I'm not.

He doesn't have to be there.

No, just the potatoes themselves are fine.

Yes.

So he was sing one of his own songs in a room with you.

Where was this room?

Oh, it was a game.

Was it a gig?

Did you go to a David Hassel gig?

No.

I thought we were friends.

No, I was in a TV studio and we were on a show in Ireland.

And then the show stopped running.

You know, the camera stopped.

It was the end, you know?

And the next thing he grabs a microphone and has some words with the band and he's up singing.

And again, it was a hostage situation.

It felt like, you know, that we were all trapped and we all had to kind of look delighted.

And I just wanted to go home because I was tired.

But I had to look delighted and wait for the song to end.

It was nothing against him in particular.

It's just that I didn't grab the mic and have a word with the band and start singing.

You know,

you have to make it okay with people if you're going to do that, I think.

And sense the vibe in the room.

Read the room.

The room was tired and wanted to go home.

Did he think the audience was tired?

Oh no, thought the audience were delighted.

Maybe the audience were delighted.

I think I think with that stuff, like I think that I would never do that because I would think of it as like

you've already done your interview, James.

Yeah.

You don't need him to pay even more attention to you.

Just get over it.

Also, it's self-awareness, isn't it?

Yeah.

He should be thinking, I'm David Hasselhoff.

I'm not Bruce Springsteen, maybe.

yeah

do people want to hear this yeah yeah but then i think

if i'm in the audience and i'm not in this world all the time and i've gone to see the tv show and i didn't know there'd be so much stopping and starting with the tv show and wait wait a second everyone and the warm-up comes out again and you're there for hours and then david hasselhoff got up and sang with the band i might be pretty you might be delighted with it

yeah they probably were and i'm just a curmudgeon no i don't i don't i i'd feel the same as you i'd be like oh fuck this guy I'd be worse than you but like I think it's a really good point though yeah the audience probably were delighted but then I'd think if he thinks the audience would be delighted about this even more egotistically yeah yeah yeah but some people do I mean yeah well it takes all sorts

see and the thing is Bruce probably wouldn't No because Bruce is sound Bruce knows who Bruce is I love Bruce he says Bruce says the best place the best place his favourite place to gig in the the world is Ireland.

Bruce says, stop it.

Favourite place in the world to do shows.

Did you know that?

I didn't, but I'm very, very pleased.

The boss.

What would you do if you met David Hasselhoff and he turned around and he had loads of slits down his back and they were stuffed with butter?

And covered in big salt crystals.

No, I'd leave him to it.

Say, you do, you, David.

Good, aren't you?

Yeah.

Imagine that there's a scene in Baywatch where he's like running down the beach and then they show it from the back.

Yeah.

And they go, what the fuck?

Yeah, and then he runs into the sea and it's the most painful thing in the world.

Yeah.

Yeah, because he's all hassle-backed his hassle off.

Yes, it could happen.

It could happen.

Your dream drink.

Right.

As I said, I don't drink.

And this makes me sound so joyless, but I'm really happy with water.

Do you see when you don't drink and you say to the man, sorry, I'm fine, I don't drink.

And then there's a kind kind of a weird moment.

And they're like, what's wrong with her?

And

no, like always, you know, and then I have to say, it's all right.

I'm a recovering alcoholic.

And then,

you know, she said it.

And then you see, because the poor feckers, like.

they they're trying to upsell like i am no good to them with my with my tap water i mean it doesn't have to be tap water but whatever and so

we can do some lovely mocktails for you and i don't want to mocktail because i just i'm happy with my water but I usually let them do it because I don't want them to be down to tenor you know or whatever

so they usually make me something with ginger or what's that other thing rosemary I'll say words I'll say words or they might say words to me and I don't really listen because this is a done deal whatever is going to happen you know they're they're going to make me a mocktail and I'm going to drink it or some of it anyway so they would bring me a mocktail with things hanging out of it like a sprig of rosemary or maybe like a you know some sort of branch you know part of an ash tree and fruit, maybe some, a melon, maybe or things that, you know, and

a whole melon and a straw because I ask for a straw because you might as well, like, if you're doing it, do it properly.

And so they would bring me it and I will drink it.

And, but I have no interest in it, you know, but I will do it because I don't want them to be short

of money.

I don't want to be that, you know, because everybody comes in and they think they're going to make X amount of money out of each person.

And then suddenly you have like the non-drinker.

And like, suddenly all the calculations are thrown into disarray.

So I know my role in the whole

restaurant ecosystem.

So yeah.

So I will have a mocktail, but I don't really care what it is because I'm only drinking it to be polite.

Well, you don't need to do that at the dream restaurant.

Okay, well, then I won't have any.

If that's okay with you, I'm happy with my water.

If you want to put the melon away, I'll put the ashtray away.

Yeah.

But the ashtray might be nice in the water.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

No, I'm really, really happy with the water.

I mean, I know it sounds odd, but I like water.

I think it's odd, like, because, like, you can get alcoholic drinks that aren't too sweet.

Non-alcoholic drinks are all pretty sweet.

You don't really have ones that aren't

crazy sweet.

And you don't want to be just constantly drinking sweet drinks all the time.

Yeah, like, I don't.

Like, it does do your head in whenever I have a break from alcohol, I'm like, these soft drinks are really like, this is just ridiculous how sweet all this stuff is.

Yeah, it's so sugary.

And alcoholic beers and wines and that do you drink them i i haven't found a good one um really and uh in the past i've said it on the podcast before when people have sent me alcohol-free stuff um i've chucked alcohol in there

added i added whiskey to an alcohol free beer and and that's one of the things i did during lockdown

one of the nicest drinks i loved it but i knew that i wasn't really playing the game as it's intended to be played.

Yeah, yeah.

But yeah, I haven't found a good alcohol-free beer.

Have you?

You see, I don't.

I can't.

Like even anything that replicates the drinking experience isn't, uh, isn't good for me.

So I don't.

But I'm happy with my water.

Yeah.

Well, look, this is, this is going to be your drink in the dream restaurant then.

Thank you.

So you're sticking with Sparkling?

Well, I change just to mix it up a bit.

Yeah, after my main course.

Yeah, I'll go onto my dessert water.

Yes, we'll have it still.

Yeah.

Do you want tap water at some point as well?

Not really, to be honest.

I mean, I do have kind of aspirations.

I would like it to be like proper mineral water.

Would that be all right?

Of course,

thank you.

We did want to tap to not get a shout out,

a wedge of citrus.

Oh, god, some lime, some lime, some lime would be lovely.

Some lemon, absolutely not.

Really?

There's a huge difference.

I don't understand when people say they're the same, they're not.

They're not who's saying they're the same, loads of people.

Yeah, well, they're ridiculous.

You know, you ask for lime and they give you lemon.

It's like, no, yeah, lemon is cruel and harsh, and lime is friendly and sweeter and just better.

People,

people think they're the same.

So I went all high-pitched there.

Yeah.

What a wonderful moment to be here when your voice broke.

Yeah.

Finally, it's happened.

My voice broke.

Maybe that pube was yours.

I wish.

That's next.

Next, I'll start going there.

That's why it looks so big to me.

I ain't got none.

I ain't never got none.

Nothing to compare it to.

Nothing to compare it to.

I was like, what a huge pube.

And everyone else was like, it's pretty normal.

It's a normal size.

It's pretty normal sized.

it's normal size

oh yeah i meant normal

i'm trying to

pretend

well one of my i mean i've said this on the podcast before a number of times but i always like telling guests one of my earliest bits of comedy material was i used to go on stage and say hey do you remember when you you didn't have pubes yet uh but you told everyone at school that you did and it got nothing deathly silence nothing every time I thought it was a warmer

I would have thought that was a great icebreaker I thought it was an observation I thought it was universal I thought we all lied about having pubes but it's still still a good bit because it tells the audience something about you rather than being a universal observation.

It wasn't something they wanted to know, I don't think.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know?

They were just too ashamed to admit it.

Do you put things into your books sometimes where you think everyone does this?

This is universal.

And then you discover when the book comes out, maybe in interviews.

Yeah, they're like, oh, that was just me.

What's that all about?

Yeah, that's mortifying.

Are you able to just be like, well, that was the character.

Yeah, that was exactly.

Yeah.

That's exactly what I say.

Yeah.

I mean, they develop a life of their own, I say.

I mean, I'm really not responsible for most of their actions or words.

We arrive at your dream dessert.

Now, I feel quite good about this because you said earlier that, you know,

anything chocolatey, you're all over it.

So I know that we're going to have a sweet dessert.

We're not going to have anything

to say, just like a cheeseboard.

Okay, no, God, no, no, not a cheeseboard at all.

Okay, it's an unusual one.

It's the trifle that my mother makes.

The only thing is she only makes it once a year now and she makes it at Christmas and she puts sherry into it just to be cruel so that I can't have it.

So I would like to have this the trifle without the sherry.

I mean they have about 40 desserts at Christmas, all of them.

And they're all langers by 10 o'clock in the morning.

And like, and I come and like, I am in good form, I am completely sober.

And

they won't even let me have one thing, the trifle for me.

So that's what I'd like.

I would like to have my mother's trifle specially made for me.

Yeah.

What would be a good...

There must be a good replacement for the sherry in there.

Like a non-alcoholic replacement.

Surely.

Yeah, like fruit juice or something like that.

I mean, they're all so drunk it doesn't matter.

They can't taste it anyway.

But she just does it to be

defiant.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And also it's like, in her mind, she makes this thing every year.

It's the traditional special thing.

Why don't she change it?

Yeah.

And she only makes one thing a year now, you know.

But yeah, that's what I'd like.

I'd love it because I miss it because it's like really delicious and really comforting.

Like, you know, there's, God, I love custard, you know, and I love cream and jelly, like all the things, the cake, everything.

I would really, really like it.

And then maybe some chocolate sauce.

Oh, yeah,

drizzled on top of it.

Yes, yes.

What's your favourite element of the trifle?

The custard.

Oh, yeah.

Sorry.

No, go on.

I'll ask the next question afterwards because I want to hear about the custard first.

I mean, I love, love, love.

It's the ultimate comfort food.

Set custard, runny custard, hot custard, cold custard, any custard.

Yeah, it's just really, really nice.

And if you could be any element of the trifle, which element would you be?

Maybe it's the one that you relate to the most?

Maybe it's the one you aspirationally would like to be.

Okay, I'd like to be the cream, I think.

Especially, you know, that squirty cream that comes out of a can.

Yes.

You see the way it would go on the top of the trifle.

It would look kind of very decorative immediately.

You're not just like putting it on with a spoon and then trying to smooth the surface and all.

You're already getting peaks and valleys, and it looks like a snow place.

I'd like that.

You'd like to be the cream.

I would like to be the cream because it is superficially attractive.

So let's see if this is.

It's the psychopath of the trifle.

It's the psychopath aspect, yes, exactly.

We've had guests choose trifle before.

Have you?

Harry Hill, Jamie Oliver, Jamali Maddox, and some other ones that I just remembered this.

Yeah, this is insane.

I can't remember this.

Remember those three?

Yeah.

Armando Ianucci,

Steve Coogan, Asma Khan, Amy Gledhill.

Oh my god.

So normally I'm in good company.

Yeah, you are.

That's very, very good company.

Yeah.

I'd ask people that if they were layered up like a trifle with the other people who had chosen the trifle, what order would they be layered up?

Who would be in?

That's kind of a weird pervert question.

Yeah.

Who would you want to be in between?

If I layered all those people up like a trifle, including yourself.

But you're in the cream, so she's on top.

No, no, I'm willing to change.

Okay.

I'm fierce fond of Steve Coogan.

And I can't pronounce his name.

Amanda Ian Uchi.

Yeah.

I love his work.

I just think he's I think they're both so clever.

I'd be delighted to be a sandwich

with them.

They do a lot of projects together.

So they might be talking across you about a project they've got.

They've just done Dr.

Strangelove on the West End.

They do partridge together.

Right, I see.

I see.

Are you going to be able to put up with that if they're either side of you phone back before five years?

I'd love it.

I would find it so interesting.

I'd be honoured.

I'm like, I don't have to say anything.

I can just be there.

I can be like, I don't know, a thin layer of jelly.

You know, I don't mind.

I know my place and the ecosystem.

Like, I'd be delighted.

I think they'd be delighted as well.

yeah so you want this trifle but without the sherry yes thanks we we know your husband's in the building yes shout out he will now surely as your personal chef be plotting making a trifle recipe without the sherry and if he did that would you enjoy it as much as your mother's trifle probably not to be honest and this is no shade on him it's just because it kind of it's a substitute for love

and yeah it would feel like love if my mother made it my mother is a school of tough love kind of love person.

Yeah.

And she mostly shows her love to me by suggesting I go to the doctor.

And

it's funny because, yeah, like, you know, with all the books and everything, it's, it's kind of not anything that she's interested in.

But anytime I have a cough or anything like that, she's, oh, Marion, you have a cough.

Do you want to go to the doctor with that?

And I think, oh, God, that's lovely Guan.

And, you know, so that she'll be nice to me.

So, yeah, but having the trifle would feel like another version of that.

So, yeah, yeah.

It's not really about the trifle.

It's not about the trifle at all, you know.

You get enough love.

Your husband.

Yeah, he loves me anyway.

I know.

There's no substitute needs.

Yeah, no, exactly.

Whereas my mother, I would love that.

Yeah.

Well, there you go.

So that was Ed there trying to set your husband up for failure because he's feeling so against it.

I think it was just, I thought it was a good question.

Ed feels like he's

a husband.

He wants to be a little bit more.

It was about family dynamics and the psychology of the relationship.

What does the trifle actually represent?

And what we've got.

We've got to the bottom of it.

Love.

He's trying to tell a husband, a husband can't offer a mother's love.

That man is a genius.

You need a podcast doing that sort of thing on, you know.

Something a bit more serious.

Yes, yes.

Yeah, a different podcast to this one, which is magnificent, but another one where you would also be magnificent, talking about family dynamics and love, what people really want, what people mean when they say, or what they're asking for when they ask for something.

They're really asking for that.

And it's going to be called Mummy's Trifle.

Oh, yeah, that's beautiful.

Yeah.

You should do it together.

Ask somebody, not me.

No, no, you work that out all by yourself.

You created that role for yourself all by yourself.

I would love to do a really serious podcast about family.

Would you produce it, Benito?

He's shaking his head.

Yeah.

But you

I read your menu back to you now, see how you feel about it.

Thank you.

You would like sparkling water.

You would like Treatling Guinness Bread Warm from the Hotel Europe in Kilani.

Sorry, I burped into the microphone.

With Kevin Bold Butter.

Want to read that again?

You can't be on Mummy's Trifle.

Why would I not be on that Mummy's Trifle?

You can't burp during Mummy's Trifle.

But you've got to be a serious and yeah, but you could assess what it means.

What does that burp mean?

What does the burp mean?

What are you trying to say?

What in your body needs to come out?

Yeah, what was it that i was struggling with all the words because i had to say the word europe and it reminded me of brexit when i got oh you see you got emotional look where we are yeah this got very deep very fast yeah thanks to dr ed

he didn't do anything

you think i didn't do anything aha you're the facilitator yeah it's the facilitator's job to just be kind of invisible yes yeah starter you would like your husband's tomato ricotta salad oh it's not ricotto's manchego we have coriander seeds and lemon oil main course you would like roast butternut squash with chickpea stew and razza razel

hanous from woodruff in dublin side dish your husband's hasselback potatoes with kerry gold again making a second appearance drink happy with still water at this time uh with lime with a wedge of lime dessert your mother's trifle without the sherry with some chocolate sauce drizzled over it.

Perfect.

Beautiful.

Thank you so much.

That's a lovely, lovely menu.

That does sound nice.

That sounds very tasty.

I'd eat that.

Yeah.

Can we request that you work into one of your books like a character having that meal?

And then just as a little Easter egg for fans?

Yes, I can try.

This episode.

Okay, I can try.

I can try.

So it could just be just, yeah, and then they ate this.

You know what's happening now is the exact discussion we talked about that you have with your editors.

Yes.

That's happening now.

Could you work that into your book and you've gone, yeah, yeah, I'll try.

Yeah, yeah.

Never going to happen.

Yeah.

And I've gone home for it.

Probably not going to happen, yeah, in all honesty, yes.

But thank you for asking, yeah, it's a pleasure.

Now, now you're asking, is the menu?

You are asking now, I'm asking.

Now he was asking, yes, I'm gonna do my own podcast.

If that's gone off and doing his own one, I'm gonna do my one called now.

I'm asking, yeah, but I ask the questions that I want you to answer on your podcast.

Okay, so it's just me asking questions for an hour, okay, and I'll put that out

every week.

Yeah, I'll listen to yours and see if.

And see if, yeah, if we can.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you'll answer a third of them.

And James knows that, which is why he asks

three times as many.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So we all understand what's really going on.

Can't wait.

Top of the podcast charts.

Top of the charts.

Number two under Mummy's Trifle.

Marianne, thank you so much for coming to the Dream Restaurant.

Thank you for having me.

It was great.

Well, there we are, James.

What a wonderful episode.

Wonderful menu, wonderful stories.

Yeah, I loved it.

I mean, also, I liked talking about now you're asking.

Yes.

The podcast that Marion does with Tara Flynn.

And very much looking forward to the Walsh sisters coming out, the BBC drama.

Keep an eye out because they're filming it now.

We don't have a date.

They're filming it now as we're talking.

They're filming it in Dublin.

So, of course, go and get your copy of my favourite mistake.

Yes, absolutely.

We can talk about all that stuff because Marion didn't say tomento.

Didn't say tomento, so we didn't have to kick her out at the restaurant, of course.

And we had a lovely chat with her husband afterwards, who we'd heard so much about in the episode.

And Ed was holding on to him and going, teach me.

Teach me your ways.

I want to be like you.

I want to cook more.

Yeah, I want to cook more.

Well, how do you do it?

Yes.

Are you going to make that salad, Ed?

Yeah, I think so.

I need to go and find some really good tomatoes.

Achievable.

I need to go and, I mean, I'm so bad at knowing when the seasons are for things yeah sure when are the tomatoes good when are the heritage tomatoes good yeah baby they are the best but they look so great yeah I know exactly how Merwin described it I was like oh yeah oh yeah I want one of those right now all baby oh baby I want a tomato that's so good you can eat it like an apple yeah that would be good eat it like a little apple walk around would you walk out in public eating that like an apple maybe not it'd be quite messy I think to yeah it's difficult to eat it like an apple and the rest of the hand fruits are that you can walk where they're portable right Yeah.

And then you throw away the core.

Not everyone does.

Not everyone.

People eat the core.

We've talked about it before.

People eat the core and like, but I also, it's been a while since I've heard the mortar referred to as hand fruits and it was very nice to hear that.

I think it's a bit in Family Guy, you know, and it's just really stuck with me.

Something about a strawberry being so big.

You love Family Guy?

Is it like a hand fruit?

First two seasons.

Yeah.

Blew me away.

Stand by it.

I think I was the right age for it then as well.

Yeah, no, it's funny.

It's talking baby, yeah,

yeah, come on.

People forget that when that came out, that was wild.

Yeah, we talked about talking baby earlier, talking baby.

The Simpsons didn't dare make that baby talk.

No, family guy, they're crossing the line.

They were stuck trying to think of what do we do with this non-talking baby that you've got.

Family guy, whole character.

Give it a voice.

Yeah.

Thank you to Marion, and we will be back next week.

We will be back next week.

Oh, hello, it's Amy Gladhill here.

Hello, I'm Harriet Kemsley.

Single ladies, it's coming to London.

Well, we're already in London, I suppose, in a way, but we're doing a live show, aren't we?

It's true on Saturday, the 13th of September at 7pm at King's Place.

So we've got your Saturday night sorted.

We've done all the organising for you.

Come along, have some drinks, alcoholic or non-alcoholic, both are available.

And you can get your tickets from plursive.co.uk.

Or just head to the link in our Instagram bio and just clickity, click, click.

London, we're coming.