Ep 284: Meera Sodha

James, huge news from the world of off-menu and indeed the world of the world.

Yes.

Ever heard of the Royal Albert Hall?

I have.

We've done live shows there.

And guess what?

We're doing more live shows there next year.

Sure, a lot of them are sold out already.

But we thought, hey, throw these guys a bone.

Let's put on one final Royal Albert Hall show in that run.

The show will be on Monday, the 16th of March.

It's going to be a tasting menu, a returning guest coming back, receiving the menu of another previous guest.

Those shows have been a lot of fun.

We cannot wait to do them live.

Who will we pull out of our little magic bag?

You'll have to come along on the 16th of March to find out.

If I'm correct in thinking, presale tickets go on pre-sale on the 10th of September.

Pre-sale tickets are 10th of September at 10 a.m.

And then the general sale is 12th of September at 10 a.m.

So if you miss out on the pre-sale, don't forget general sale is only two days later.

The day in between is for reflecting.

Get your tickets from royalalberthall.com Hall.com or offmenupodcast.co.uk.

Talk about refreshing.

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A brand new phone with Verizon.

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Welcome to the Off Menu podcast.

Putting the grapes of conversation into the freezer of humor.

Taking them out, putting them in the orange squash of the internet.

You got yourself a summer cocktail.

A callback to a previous episode that I didn't see coming.

Yes.

Ed, you always keep me on my toes.

That's Ed Gamble.

My name is James A.

Caster.

Together, we own a dream restaurant, and every single week we're inviting a guest and asking a favourite ever starting main course dessert, side dish, and drink, not in that order.

And this week, our guest is Mira Soda.

Mira Soda, wonderful chef, makes incredible cookbooks.

I've said it on the podcast before, potentially.

I've definitely said it to you, James.

Yep.

The East is one of my favorite cookbooks ever.

Yeah.

It is brilliant.

It's vegetarian and vegan recipes.

Just fantastic dishes.

Easy to do, but you feel like you've really nailed it.

It's so delicious.

I know Benito's a fan as well.

Benito's a huge fan.

And also, good news for you guys.

Dinner is out.

Mira's new book.

Yes.

And we've had a little flick-through dinner and it looks fantastic.

I feel like I'm going to get just as addicted to that book as I do to East.

Yep.

And we'll be hearing more about that book when we talk to Mira.

Ask her what the book is about, what inspired the book.

But listen, maybe that'll be all Mira will get to say on the podcast because if she chooses the secret ingredient, an ingredient which we deem to be unacceptable, we will be forced to kick her out of the dream restaurant.

And today, the secret ingredient is

soda bread.

You have a lazy one, this?

Yeah, pretty lazy, but sometimes the first choice is the best.

Yeah, Benito was trying to think of like foods that had East in them.

I suggested yeast, and he laughed like I was joking, which I wasn't.

Yeah, not

done way worse than yeast.

Yeah, yes, to be fair.

Yeah, yeah.

But yo, soda bread.

Yes.

You know, we're playing a dicey game here.

This could be the first.

This could be early yeast.

I don't think soda bread has yeast in it.

Interesting.

Oh, wow.

It might be interesting.

But yeah, if Mima, like, literally on Popadom's or bread, chooses soda bread.

I bet it does now.

I'm going to get absolutely flamed online.

Yeah, that'll be bad.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because like, very excited about this episode.

A lot of people are going to be very excited to hear it.

Yeah, what Mira Soda was to eat.

Yeah.

You know, like, when we do have a fantastic chef on, there are always amazing menus.

It would be pretty bad if we kick her out.

Yeah.

Early on.

Yeah.

Well, let's hope she doesn't pick bread named after herself.

Yeah.

Well, fingers crossed.

This is the off-menu menu of Mira Soda.

Welcome, Mira, to the Dream Restaurant.

Thank you so much for having me.

Welcome, Mirasota, to the Dream Restaurant.

We've been expecting you for some time.

Woo!

It's glorious to be here.

It's very glorious to have you here.

I don't think I've ever had a cookbook recommended to me as much as East.

Ever.

Well, I tell you what, I don't think I've even had a cookbook recommended to me, let alone

multiple times.

We were on a text group with a bunch of comics, about 11 comedians, and someone said, What's a good cookbook?

About half the group said You and then got really excited about everyone else knowing about it.

And I was like, This is like when everyone was talking about Da Vinci code,

but cookbooks.

That's really nice to hear.

Yeah, I was one of the people recommending East.

I've already waxed lyrical to you before we started recording.

I'll do it some more now.

I'm absolutely obsessed with it.

My shelf in my kitchen is pristine cookbooks, and then East in the middle that looks like it's been dipped in a full like pan of sauce.

It's just covered in food stains.

It is well used, well thumbed.

I love it.

Oh, don't.

I mean, I brown, but I feel like I'm slowly turning red

from blushing.

Thank you.

That's very kind of you.

Do you get a lot of people come up to you and be like, I made this the other day from your cookbook?

Yeah, I think one of the first time it happened, I was in Marks and Spencer's shopping for some knickers, which is definitely not when you want to be approached by someone saying, I've got your dahl in my freezer.

Yeah.

Like a hostage for that.

That's sinister.

I've since then never bought pants in Marks and Spencer's again.

No, get them online.

Just get them online.

You can't be risking dial in the freezer moments.

No.

I remember when I was a kid in Marks and Spencer with my dad, walking through the ladies' underwear section.

I was like little, primary school, and I was like, dad, it's like the most awkward thing walking through this section.

Like,

how do you even do it?

And he was like, you get used to it over the years.

He said what he told me.

Told me I'd get used to it as I get older.

It'd be easier to walk through that.

How does it feel now?

No, it's still crazy, man.

I could go and tell people I've got got their dial in my freezer.

It doesn't make it any less tense.

Was this a woman who told you that this?

Yes.

Yes, okay.

That's better, I'd say, yeah, than a man coming up to you in the Knickers section and going,

I've got your dal in my freezer.

Once I was in the dial section of a cookery place.

But of course, we're very excited about dinner, the new book, your new cookbook.

Well, Moki tells us about it, but also it says on the front, 120 vegan and vegetarian recipes for the most important meal of the day.

I've been lied lied to my whole life.

People have told me that's breakfast.

Yep, breakfast is for wimps.

Yeah, good on it.

Someone said it.

Do away with lunch.

Lunch could be leftovers.

Yeah, dinner.

I mean, I love dinner.

Dinner's the meal, you know, I kind of think of it as like a button that you can push.

And depending on the kind of day that you've had, it's like a response button.

You've had a crap day.

Dinner will make it all right.

You know, you share it with friends.

You don't do that with breakfast.

You don't do it with lunch.

I've seen people eating lunch in their offices.

They're just like, you know, tuna maya all over their faces whilst they're like trying to write an email out at the same time.

Well, I wrote the book following quite a difficult period in my life where I fell out of love with cooking and food, which is kind of crazy for me because food is like life and joy and everything.

And also how I pay my mortgage.

It's my job.

It's how I show love.

And so, you know, I knew I needed to find a way to cooking quickly, you know, kind of getting out of this hole.

And so dinner is really, it's actually quite a joyful book because it's all the recipes that I cooked that allowed me to come back to myself and back to the kitchen and back to cooking step by step, meal by meal.

And so it's, it's a very personal book.

And it's also like quite a selfish book.

Like before we started recording, you were talking about like how dishes can look amazing and taste rubbish.

And this is almost the opposite.

Like

I'm not saying they look rubbish and they taste amazing, but really like they come from the heart and they're really, you know, dishes that I love to cook and eat.

And those are like dahls.

And no one, you know, I'm sure many people photograph dahl, but dahl is dahl.

You can't like sort of sexy it up too much.

It is just dahl.

And like beans and things like that, or like spaghetti, just things that I just love eating.

I love sharing and I love cooking.

So like how, how did you like fall back in love with like cooking?

And what advice would you give other people who maybe, you know, their passion turned into their job and now they're falling out of love with

podcasting.

Oh, no, I didn't even think you were going to say podcasting.

Well, um, hey, I thought you were just talking about stand-up.

No, I love stand-up now.

I've got,

I cured myself.

This is the noon, but

so come and lie down on my couch.

Well, there was like a particular moment.

I'm not saying I've got like um great advice for anybody out there, but there was like a turning point for me.

And so I wasn't really cooking because I didn't really want to.

I was sort of eating all sorts of stuff, you know, assembly things.

And Hugh, my husband, was doing like all of the cooking and looking after me and the kids.

And then one day, I think starting to crack under the pressure, he said, I'd love it if you can cook me a meal.

And it wasn't him saying, you know, cook for me, wifey.

It was him saying, you know, I'm really struggling and I just want you to show me some love.

And it just snapped me out, you know, in this genie-like way.

I just ran into the kitchen, grabbed a pan, relate to this,

and

coconut milk, lentils.

I keep all my aromatics like lemongrass, lime leaves, things like that, in the freezer.

And I put together this Malaysian dial curry, which is like still something that I cook on a weekly basis.

And I just, I kind of felt that it was something different, right?

Because for years up until that moment, so I started my career in 2012.

The first cookbook that I wrote was a family cookbook.

But after that, I was writing for other people.

I was writing for the newspaper.

I was writing for books.

I was writing for incremental gains on Instagram.

Is this recipe going to get some likes?

Is it interesting?

Is it innovative?

And it didn't come from my belly and my like joy.

It wasn't, you know, like I was kind of writing a recipe.

Let's say, you know, I've got two kids and Hugh, and all day I'd be writing this like lime pickle recipe.

Kids come home, Hugh comes home.

Nobody can eat lime pickle for dinner.

You know, that's not fun.

Greg Davis found your house.

It'd do it.

It could go all the lime pickle.

So I just kind of had to refind my pleasure.

And so I just promised myself that I would start to cook again because that's what this doll like could feel like.

It was almost like, you know, when your lungs are just fill full of air, you're like, you feel great all of a sudden.

And my fingers were like fizzing, like kind of electric, you know.

I just felt like there was something different then.

And I was like, I really wanted to cook for him.

I really enjoyed it.

And so I started keeping a notebook, this like orange notebook that we keep by the microwave.

It's got a sticker of a horse on it.

We're going to give it to the girls when they go to university.

The sticker's unimportant in this

It's unimportant to itself.

It's how we can identify it.

And all the recipes that we love as a family go in there.

And so I started keeping notes.

And then I just, you know, suddenly this book just started to fill up.

And then I spoke to my editor and I was like, there's something here.

I really want to share these recipes.

They've really given me back like a sense of myself.

And they're really simple recipes.

You know,

there's a thread running through all of my books.

Like, if you like East, you'll love dinner.

But like, they're kind of Southeast Asian, vegan, vegetarian, predominantly.

But there's more like bung it in the oven dishes, like a paneer butter masala that I cook all the time, which I love because it just allows me to like hear the girls talk about like plot twists in like Paul Patrol or whatever it is that they're watching or like

turns out they're humans dressed as dogs.

That's the big twist.

Spoiler alert.

They're fairies.

They're all fairies.

Put patrol.

Which I just love.

You know, it's just a nice way of cooking or like putting something like I like that style of cooking where you're like bunging stuff into a pot.

One ingredient after another suddenly alchemises into dinner and like the windows steam up, the smell rises through the house.

And so like it's less, oh, I hesitate to say this, I'm throwing shade on my other books, but I don't mean to do that, but it's less fussy.

You know, it's much more like kind of homely comfort food, that sort of thing.

That's the sort of food I like cooking the most, I think, when you can put it all in a pot and then just leave it.

And time is the ingredient that makes it the best.

Yes.

Oh, I love it.

Oh, great.

That hit me right there.

Yeah.

Time is ingredient.

You're not thinking of the herb, right?

Huh?

Are you thinking of the herb?

Oh.

I think it just looked like he was hit by how profound.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm a profound guy.

That happens about five times.

Are you saying the herb or time?

No, I am saying time, T-I-M-E.

Oh, right.

I've missed that.

Yeah.

Beautiful that you said that.

I have a question about the book.

Hit me.

Who's that man?

That's Hugh.

That's Hugh.

That's your husband sat next to you while you're eating the food.

Yes.

You've got to be happy with that.

Absolutely delighted.

He's in the book.

Yeah.

I always wondered that with cookbooks when you're flicking through and there's just people who aren't the chef.

Yeah.

We're just hanging out with them.

I'm just like, who's that?

What's that recipe for, James?

Because that sounds amazing.

Taipei?

Yeah.

Yes.

Crispy pancakes with Gru Gruyer.

Grill.

And kimchi.

So the Taiwanese name for these pancakes is better than my title because they're called Dan Bing,

which always makes me think of Chandler Bing.

Yeah, Chandler Bing's brother.

Chandler Bing.

Yeah.

Chandler Bing's brother.

And you've bookmarked, this is your copy I've got.

This is my copy.

You've bookmarked sweet potato summer rolls.

Have I?

Yes.

I have.

Well, I'm not sure if Mira's bookmarked it or not, because there appears to be one of her child's drawings in there.

Well, I didn't want to.

Oh.

It's nice, actually, isn't it?

Some colour in it.

And some little note that says that

they love you.

Isn't that nice?

That's really good.

It's very lovely.

Between Ed's profound statement about time and a child writing about their love for their mother, this has been quite a moving episode.

I went through probably a couple of months with the Ben Ben noodles in East where I was pretty much, yeah, Benito Benito Noodles, where I was pretty much doing them four or five times a week.

I mean, that sauce as well.

Just the tahini, the chili oil, the vinegar, and the soy together.

I mean, with noodles, you could just have that.

Yeah.

It's incredible.

Just the sauce.

Just the sauce is amazing.

But with the, this is the shiitake mushrooms and Sechuan peppercorns, and then that thing of pushing them into the pan until they're super crispy with the noodles and packed choy and stuff, what a recipe that is.

It's wild, isn't it?

And the most important ingredient.

Time.

we always start with still or sparkling water.

Sparkles, for sure.

But without the ice.

I mean, I know you haven't mentioned ice, but sparkles without ice.

So

I am a cactus.

Sorry.

As you can see, I have not touched my water.

And I have to force myself to do what comes naturally to other people.

And that means drinking sparkling water when I'm out.

I mean, obviously, when I'm at home.

I don't drink water.

You just don't drink water at all.

No, I just drink tea now at home.

That's got water in it.

it.

Yeah, that's water.

Well, I mean, look, it's still a sparkling water is the name of the course, but if you want to hack it and just have a cup of tea instead, you could argue that's mainly water.

You came here today.

I mean, you know, you had a coffee when you arrived.

Benito was very excited to show you his milks.

Remember that?

Remember that?

That is true.

But he was very boastful about how many different milks he had.

He was.

He was quite excited about it.

Were you surprised when it was only three milks?

It was only three milks.

Because of the way he set it up.

Yeah, I think, I mean, he's obviously honed it down to a fine arts.

Yeah.

The offering of the milk menu.

But he didn't.

He was very arrogant at the top.

Like

up top when he was like, you want milk?

I've got so much milk.

And then it was like, there's just three of them.

I don't give a milks.

Yeah, he went, whatever milk you can imagine, I've got it.

And then it was like free milks.

It was a bit sad, wasn't it?

It was a good precursor to being in the dream restaurant, I thought.

You know, it was like, you want milk?

Any milk?

I got milks.

Yeah.

But then what did he have?

He had like...

Yeah, he didn't have camel milk.

No, he didn't have camel milk for one.

Have you tried camel milk before?

I've never tried it.

No,

I really thought

you had tried it.

I thought you were...

I mean, the person who was...

That sounded like you had an anecdote about when you tried it.

I'm hoping to find out at some point what it's like without actually having to drink it myself.

So I do ask people randomly because they sell it in a local supermarket.

Oh, really?

So I must find somebody locally eventually if I keep on asking the question.

Camels also don't drink that much water, right?

So what must their milk be like?

Concentrated, maybe like cheese.

Do you think?

Without the milk in it, it comes out just like cottage cheese.

Yeah, it comes out

like cream.

Like cottage cheese?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or like cheese whiz, you know, in a can.

Whose job is it to milk a camel?

Because I can't imagine.

I've ridden a camel once, and you have to, I think you have to get them to smell a jumper, or maybe this particular camel.

I mean, I've only done it once.

You have to smell a jumper.

Because

if they don't like you, they might sort of either throw you off or riffle jumper.

It's your jumper.

It's not just a special jumper.

Not just a jump.

Not like a sniffer dog.

Yeah.

When a criminal's on the run, they get to smell some of their clothes.

And then the camel goes out and finds them.

No, it's quite an animalistic thing, though, isn't it?

In order to trust you, I must smell you.

Smell you.

Yeah.

I've never ridden a camel.

When you rode the camel, was it the one hump or two?

And did...

If it was two, did you sit in the middle of the two humps?

Yeah, good question.

I thought it was a really good question, but I was eight and I don't really remember, but I think.

You don't remember?

Did you rode a camel?

I can't say for sure how many humps there were.

I can't believe this.

It's just blowing my mind.

I'm going to say two.

Yeah.

Because it makes sense that you could kind of hold a hump in front and a hump behind.

Yeah.

Secure between the humps.

Why is that?

It's crazy, isn't it?

There's like one hump and two hump camels.

If I was a one hump camel and I just hung out with the other one humpers and then I met a two hump, I'd be like, what the hell is going on?

Yeah.

Look a different animal.

It's crazy.

We just take it for granted because we're, you know, we're little kids when we find out about camels.

camels are one of the first things we learn about

really yeah one of the first things yeah well i guess in terms of animals yeah because they're one of the weirdest ones they are one of the weirdest it doesn't make sense they exist really i think i mean alongside like rhinoceroses

giraffes hippopotamus

what's the plural of hippopotamus is it hippopotami hippopotami yeah giraffe

the anteaters with their long tails they're crazy crazy yeah so yeah and that's uh that's early doors you learn about them yeah they're the ones you know what i i think i found out a bit later.

I think you got lucky.

I told you when you found out about anteaters.

Possibly the same age as I was when I rode a camel, I think.

Oh, God.

While you're on the camel, that would have blown my mind.

Yeah.

You look to your left, there's an anteater riding a camel.

And you can't remember this.

You're just getting over sitting between two humps, and then someone shows you a picture of that.

Long schnazed.

Go on.

I was going to say wanker.

I'll put it out there.

That's the only word that was in my head.

Long schnauzed wanker.

They are long schnazed wankers.

If any anteaters are listening to this.

I mean, I don't like ants personally, so I feel like they're doing a great service.

Yeah, I suppose so.

Yeah, but they don't ever eat the ants that are bothering us.

They're out in the desert eating ants that are all in the

big ant hill.

But the ants that are in my kitchen and I can't get rid of, where's an anteater then?

They're not doing me any favours.

Are you calling any anteaters in to...

Actually, I do.

Yeah.

You long schnozzed wankers.

You come on here and get rid of these ants in my kitchen.

I think your strategy might need...

Yeah, too aggressive.

Sound up on a camel, take some ages.

I hate these non-shots.

Pop-doms on bread.

Pop-doms on bread, Mary Sona.

Pop-doms on bread.

So it was poppadoms until 2014.

I would have said poppadoms if you had called me in before 2014.

But 2014 is when Fisherman's Wharf happened.

And now I'm very wary of the Popadom.

So

I

in 2014, Hugh, who's then my boyfriend, now my husband, and I went to Goa, palm-fringed beaches, like waterball sunshine.

He was turning 30, and his love language is fish curry.

What a love language.

I heard that very specific love language as well.

That's great.

Fish curry is dreamy.

And so I wanted to find the best fish curry in the area.

And someone recommended Fisherman's Wharf, this restaurant.

you know, it was very difficult back then to get a table there, but I managed to get, you know, one of the last tables in there, managed to plag a table.

And then it was an hour's journey to get there.

And this journey was part land, part water.

And I managed to find the one taxi driver who was willing to take us on this 50-minute journey, liaise with the man with the ferry to put his taxi on the back of the ferry in order to get to Fisherman's Wharf.

And so when we were having a few drinks in the bar next door, we were elated, like we were just totally pumped to have done this like challenge anika style journey to get there.

And they plied us with all the crispy crunchies poppa doms crispy crunchy galore and we ate them all and we were having a great time doing that but by the time we got to the restaurant and we were shown around the fisherman's wharf and like let me paint a picture this is like the aladdin's cave of seafood like this stuff is so fresh it's like practically jumped into the restaurant it's like super shiny gleaming like latex diamonds etc

and we looked at each other and couldn't really eat a thing.

And so we ordered some fish and then spent the next two hours like pushing around some of the world's best seafood around our plates.

And so we made a vow to each other that day never again to do another fisherman's wharf.

And so my answer is bread, not poppadoms, but with my main course.

Interesting.

So you're moving the bread course to be alongside the main course.

Yes.

This is great because we've never had this before.

We've never had the bread course become a cliffhanger for later on in the meal.

I like that it's a cliffhanger.

And how do you want to do it?

Do you want to do it that you tell us the bread course when we get to the main course?

Or do you want to tell us the bread course, don't tell us the main course, and see if we can guess the main course or the listeners can guess it.

Well, you love a guessing game.

I love a guessing game, and that's what I'm trying to steer you through.

My instinct would be we'd now just move on.

What?

And we talk about the bread when we get to the main course.

You could just say what the bread is, we don't talk about it, and then we go on to the starter, and then the listeners can guess in their heads what the main course is going to be well i do first of all it's very sensible what you're doing here because so many times i've ruined myself on on bread

everyone's been there haven't they they've over nibbled yeah yeah but i wouldn't i would never get to the main course even if i was really full and be like i'm too full to eat this i'd power it down yeah but there is a particular arrangement of can i just say it can i just say it

it's none but from my local kebab shop okay Yeah.

Do you want to shout it out or do you fear that people will it'll become mobbed and then it will not be as good a local kebab shop anymore?

Well,

I mean, I can give it a shout out, but it's really not about the kebab shop.

It's about the tandor that they've got in the corner and the mustachioed uncle that makes the naan in there.

I mean, I don't eat an awful lot from the kebab shop, so maybe I shouldn't give it a shout out.

But the naan, goodness me, I mean, anything cooked in a tandor makes me go weak at the knees.

But the naan is like this heavenly plump charred semi-crispy on the bottom bubbly on top plied with garlic butter if you wish 50p a pop 50p for 50p

you're gonna have to tell me what that is now please where isn't yes wasn't him so it's called alhacks okay yeah

he's there as soon as

he finished this and yes they have the the oven of joy in there for the first four years after i moved in i didn't go there i mean because you know it's got the elephant's leg rotating in the window.

I'm not partial to the elephant's leg myself.

And he went in after a particularly boozy night and discovered the tandoor in there.

And our minds were blown.

And now, like, the ritual is that we, you know, we've got like a naan jar full of coins.

We'll invite people over for dinner, go and take them to go and see Uncle.

He'll like, you know.

push out like at least 10 naans or something, take them back, little plastic carrier bag wrapped in foil.

And it's just totally, I mean, there is nothing finer in my, that I can think of, no better bread than freshly made naan bread, in my opinion.

I love the naan jar.

I love the naan jar.

It's good.

Not enough people have a naan jar.

It's the first time we've had a naan jar.

I sound like a posh person saying ninja.

The first time we've had a naan jar mentioned on the podcast, actually.

Do you have a jar for anything?

I don't think I do have a jar.

The only jars you really hear about are jam jars, obviously.

Yeah,

swear jars are up there as well.

But I don't think anyone actually has them.

They're used as devices in films.

Yeah.

There's always like a kid who's making the pair and put a quid in the swear jar and everyone thinks that's funny.

But like that's not that's not in real life.

No, we've subverted that problem in our house because we're allowed to say ship.

Yeah.

That's good.

We don't have to pay because we've learned how to say ship now.

I used to do that at school when I was quite little.

Someone told me that you could get away with swearing if you said ship, but you pulled your mouth apart when you did it.

Do you want to demonstrate?

Yeah, because it's not your fault.

Yeah, and then it's not your fault because you're saying ship.

I got in loads of trouble and I got sent to the

headmistress's office.

I was probably like six when this happened.

And then my mum had to come and pick me up.

And I went,

I didn't say it.

I said ship and I pulled my mouth apart.

And they let you all know.

Fair enough.

Yeah, my mum was like, right, come on.

I remember her being faintly amused by it is what I'd say.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's funny.

So your kids aren't swearing yet.

They're still writing, love you, mummy,

in your book.

In a few years' time, that's a sort of

you, mother.

Yeah, yeah.

Not yet.

You're still too young.

So in context, how are you saying ship in front of the kids?

It's like, oh, ship, the naan jar's empty.

Precisely.

Oh, ship.

I burnt the whatever I'm cooking.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's good that you're in the moment you can switch it to ship true yes because if you know most of the time when people are swearing they're like it just happens naturally because they're angry about something right i mean i think i think swearing might increase and the jars might decrease because like it's quite hard to use actual real money coins these days isn't it i don't know if you find that too but i'm just like beeping everything yeah yeah you know phone beep card beep actually not even card beep these days it's mostly a phone beep but the kebab shops cash yeah Well, I mean, I think you can pay on card there, but it's one of those we quite like cash places.

Well, yeah, especially if you're just buying naan.

Yes, isn't that?

And they're 50p each.

Yeah, you do feel a bit bad because they have to pay you the

two charges.

Two quid for four naans on your on Apple Pay doesn't feel great, does it?

Your dream starter.

I'm just thinking about what you're going to have as your main now because of the, what the...

what the bread wants.

See, this is the problem.

This is why I said leave it till later.

I have to yan people.

But your dream starter.

So, my dream starter is panipuri.

Yeah.

And I love panipuri.

It's like the Indian equivalent of a flaming sambuka, but without the alcohol or flames.

But it's like the ultimate high-risk all-in-one mouthful.

And so it's really fun.

Like, it can get, it will guarantee you to get a party started with a bang, I think.

Occasionally, someone might have to drop out.

Let me explain what it is for people who don't know.

So it's a crispy, crunchy, hollow semolina shell that you pop a hole into the top of it.

And then you put inside there are like plump black chickpeas, sprouted mung beans, mixed together with chatmasala, maybe potato, I don't want the potato, maybe potato, little squares of date and tamarind chutney for all of your sweet and sour desires and you serve them like six up on a plate with a little jug of pani.

And now pani means water in Hindi, but it's it's like a mint and coriander, lime, a bit more date.

Like it's quite complicated water, but basically it's like being slapped in the face with some herbs, like accompanied by a lemon.

Like it's gorgeous.

And so this thing is like a crispy, crunchy, sweet, sour, salty, like textural sensation that could go wrong because if there's a hole in the bottom of your puri, then you know, it could be game over at the starter.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I love it.

It's it's like it's a street food that comes under the genre of chaat in Indian food.

And chaat means, I mean, it means to lick, but it translates to so good you want to lick it.

wow

i don't know how it translates into that

so good you want to lick it wow

i'm going to drop that little bit of trivia next time someone orders some chart please use it in an appropriate context james

we all know what you're thinking

i can't wait to use that

you're thinking

And it sort of typifies

that sort of sweet, sour, salty, you know, that sort of really addictive food.

You're like, why is it so addictive?

And then you realise it kind of hits all of those notes.

It's quite hard to find it

in the UK.

London is the land of everything.

You can go to Wembley.

But my favourite, I like making it at home because it's quite fun.

But the last time I had a really good one was at Elko Panipuri Centre, which is in Bandra, Mumbai.

And all of these people were queuing.

And you're just off a main road.

And you're like, what on earth are people queuing for?

And it is just panipuri.

And there's a man with like one of those backpacks you see at festivals, like the big, you know, the beer guys, yeah, come around and like fill up your pine glasses.

So, he's kind of got one of those hoses attached to a rucksack, but in there, he's just got like this herby water and he's just squirting it in, dishing them out.

That's so cool.

Wow.

How's he getting the aim on that with one of those?

Yeah, yeah.

How big's the hose?

Like, the

jumps, right?

He's not doing it directly into it.

He's doing it directly.

Yeah.

It's all about the size of the nozzle.

Yeah.

So he's got a small nozzle.

It's what you're doing with it.

It's what you do with it.

So it's like pretty small.

And it must not jet out very fast either because that's going to...

If it's small, but that's coming out fast.

You're blasting a hole right in the middle of the pedestal.

But like a magic.

So the only way I can describe it to you, because I can see how keen you are to establish this, it's like

a box of wine you know the nozzle on a box of wine okay I mean it doesn't like rush out of there does it you're not like suddenly drinking a pint of wine when you give it a little squeeze

you tick it towards your mouth it does

a semi-slow trickle okay but it's like it's not it's not too slow it's not blast he's not blasting it out of there yeah it's not like a you know like a jet wash no exactly

yeah I thought it was a jet wash too

do you want it flaming I mean that that.

Flaming Sunbugastar?

I mean, why not?

That could be quite fun.

I mean, I don't want to lose my eyebrows, but.

Have you ever thought, like, could I do that?

Could I figure out a way of doing a flaming one?

And would that taste, you know, it would affect the flavour, sure.

Would we be waiting for the flames to die down?

Or would I then need to learn how to do an all-in-one with the flames?

I wouldn't, you know,

people blow it out and then down the shot.

But yeah, don't, don't fire it.

Don't eat the fire.

No, I suppose I haven't really

thought about it.

With a panipuri, if you're leaving the fire for too long, it's going to burn and make it sort of a bit acrid, isn't it?

So I think it's just a quick light,

blow it out.

Anyways, yeah.

Or

you set it on fire when you've got a little bit in there, and then the man comes around with a gun and puts more in there, and that puts the fire out.

Actually, you know what?

That could be good.

You put the fire out, yeah.

It could be really good because after a shot, you probably need to line your stomach, right?

And so once you've drunk the shot and then you follow with something crispy-crunchy.

Nice.

I mean that sounds like it.

It sounds like a really good strategy not to get totally

ship-faced.

I saw a really

ship.

Yeah, yeah.

No.

Did you say ship-faced?

Yes, yes, yes, very good.

The face of a ship.

They have faces, don't they?

Ships.

Well, basically boat-faced.

Yeah, boat-boat face.

That's what I'm thinking of.

Yeah.

As always.

I saw a really bad firebreather once,

absolutely awful fire eater.

As in, they were bad at fire breathing.

Yeah, it was atrocious.

burnt the esophagus or something it was like they'd done like a a whole magic show they're meant to be a magician the whole thing was awful every single magic trick sucked and then at the end they were like this is the finale i'm gonna i came up doing circus skills and i'm gonna like eat this fire and they talked for 10 15 minutes about how they fell in love with fire breathing and fire eating and how amazing it is and how difficult it is and telling you about it so that you appreciate what you're about to see and then they got these flaming sticks out and then they just really slowly slowly,

for one, they filled their mouth with this lighter fluid that was dribbling out the side of their goddamn mouth as they were trying to do this.

So it was like unsightly.

And then every time they tried to like eat the fire, it was just really slow and anticlimactic.

And they kept burning the side of their mouth and going, goddamn it.

And they're doing it again.

Just kept saying, goddamn it all the time every time they burnt the side of their mouth.

And that was the end of the show.

I had a not dissimilar situation where I was in.

I'm very interested to hear how not dissimilar this is.

Well, is it like it was a, it was someone who was looking after poisonous venomous snakes and this was in Thailand and

and was telling us about how venomous they were and showed us

by getting this snake.

He had he'd sort of wrapped a glass he put some cling film over a glass and then I don't know what he'd done to sort of anger the snake but the snake then bit the glass because it was angry and you saw this venom shoot out of its mouth and then at some point during the show he was bitten and had to be taken off and there was an ambulance just outside.

And so the show just suddenly ended.

Was the ambulance outside before the show started?

You go, this happens every week.

Yeah, surely.

They're just there.

I mean,

it was quite, I wouldn't recommend anybody go to a place like this because if you kind of, I remember looking at his arms thinking, it looks like he's been bitten before.

Numerous times.

Either that or he was a heroin addict.

But, you know,

either way, it's not going to be a good show.

He could have a crippled addiction.

And he's trying to wean himself off of it by finding a different passion.

and he's looking after snakes and they're fighting him all the time it's true he could it could have been manning the tandor because um you know going back to tandors i i i i did have to work a tandor at some point in my in my career and and they they burn on up the eye oh i bet cinch the eyebrows off all the hair disappears and apart from the mustache dangerous job apart from the mustache that's the guy who works in the thing not you right thank you

the uncle the uncle yeah yeah yeah yeah as soon as i said it i was like oh that's something better clear better clear that up.

I knew what you meant.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All the hair disappears.

I was like,

we know one guy who's doing all right on the hair front, who works at Tandal.

He's got longer arms than I have.

Oh, has he?

That's another thing.

I mean, I feel like I've got quite short arms.

I feel like I mean.

You know what?

I didn't think it before, but now you've stuck your arm out.

Do you do think T-Rex arms crazy?

Yeah.

It feels proportional to me.

No, that's short.

That's short.

Yeah, so it was

a dangerous job for me to do.

You've got to really get in there, right?

Yeah, it's one swift move.

Yeah.

You've got to plaster it with this kind of gigantic powder puff to the side of the tandor quite swiftly and quickly and get out of there.

Yeah, because it's like 400 degrees in there.

Wow.

Yeah.

What?

I love that.

I love seeing videos of that of people just like sticking, sticking the naan to the side of the tandor.

Oh, yeah.

Confidently.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Really jealous you saw that guy get bit by a snake.

Were you really afterwards, if you're honest, were you like, that was brilliant when he got bit?

No, I do have to.

I have to say, I didn't think that.

Good story now, though, isn't it?

Yeah, it is a good story now.

I'm going to forbid me any laughing about that.

I do have another snake story coming up, though.

Coming up.

I didn't even.

Well, I mean, in the main course, there's my main course actually features a snake.

I mean, not eating a snake.

I can see why you didn't want to save the bread now because you already had a snake story lined up.

Wow.

Wouldn't it be amazing if the Panipuri man, when he's putting the liquid in, he also has a snake in his backpack and the snake bites the hole in the top

that would be genius that would be a show wouldn't it would be good actually yeah yeah if it just bounces out bites the little hole in it yeah because that's the hardest for me when i ever have had panipuri actually putting the hole in it yeah you know the last last i can tell you when i had it it was my birthday pow too hard because i was so amped up because it was my birthday oh i'm drunk

starter Pow immediately ruined it.

Just too big of a hole.

Yeah.

I felt real sad.

sorry about that.

But

I think snakes could be good, but the venom thing might be an issue.

But you could have like a hygienic squirrel standing on a that was like a little

hygienic squirrel, yeah.

Good luck finding one of those.

I tell you who we could get one of those uh long schnauzer wankers

to come in, whack their schnauz on it, tell them there's an ant inside.

Yeah, tell them that there's an ant inside a door for it every time.

Not an ant in this one, yeah, but there's an ant in that one.

That better be

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Your dream main course has a snake in it.

Have you been to Sri Lanka?

No, no, so have you not really want to?

I love Sri Lanka.

Wherever you go in Sri Lanka, you'll be able to get a curry and rice, which is a misnomer because it's not just one portion of curry.

It's like four or five or six six portions like it's a buffet but the best buffet you've ever had and it's for one and it very you know it the curries will change depending on where you travel in sri lanka and the best one that i ever had was on new year's day in 2016.

So at this point, Hugh and I got married and we were there for our honeymoon.

And someone had recommended this place called Samakanda.

It's like a tea plantation that's in like a rainforest sanctuary, like quite close to Gaul.

And when we got there, we hadn't realized that there was absolutely nothing to do, like not even picking tea.

There was no Wi-Fi.

There wasn't anybody else staying there.

There were no books to read.

And so on New Year's Day, we go for a walk and come face to face with like a long brown, massive snake.

Oh, my God.

And this is like,

as I didn't realize until I came back that Sri Lanka actually has like over 200 species.

I mean, it's like kind of one of those like, you know, where are the most densely populated places of snakes in the world?

Turns out Sri Lanka's up there.

You don't hear about that you don't hear about it no I've been hoping it was like Benito and the milk and there wasn't actually that many yeah you know we got we've got 200 and then you've got three we got snakes soy snakes yeah or cow snakes just someone ran their mouth off because they're like a cocky butt shell off to a chef

this was terrifying it's definitely like one of the most terrifying days of my life and so we ran all the way back to the house

sorry people running away from stuff all the way back somewhere really makes me laugh.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It is really funny.

People running all the way back somewhere.

It would have been funnier if you were shouting help.

If you were shouting, help us, help.

So that's that, that's that's good stuff.

How long were you running for when you saw the snake?

I mean, maybe like ten minutes

or so.

And when did you take?

So you just got married.

So you got married in June 2015.

But, you know, we'd we'd spent all of our money on the wedding.

And so six months later we were there.

Honeymoon.

Is Hugh outrunning you?

Or is he matching your spe is he is he matching your speed?

Is he lagging behind?

So are you outrunning him or you don't care?

Well, so he has quite he's an ex-hockey player and so he's he's athletic but he's got quite big thighs and he tires easily.

And I'm quite short and 5'2 and he calls me the Gujarati Express because I can run quite quickly but for short distances.

So initially,

initially

he he has a head start, right?

Yeah.

And then he tires, but I'm the kind of consistent runner.

Yeah, I can kind of go the distance.

But you're not, it doesn't feel like you're running together at any point.

No, I don't know.

Because if I was him,

I can outrun my girlfriend, Natchez.

I've got longer legs than her, so I could.

Yeah, she's trying to keep up with me when we're walking through town.

I would be fucking...

Like, if I was running full pelt, I'm leaving her in the dust.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's not good stuff.

So I would, if a snake is chasing us and we're running all the way back.

Was the snake chasing you?

No.

Did you check at any point?

Because you're running for 10 minutes.

Yes.

Did you check to see if it was still behind you?

Yes.

Then why did you carry on running for 10 minutes?

It could have ended up a snake at your destination.

You were like, we just need to...

Adrenaline.

Did you run back, get your passport, go straight to the airport?

Yeah, we've stayed in this goddamn country now.

Yes, exactly that.

No.

So maybe we ran for five minutes.

Yeah.

I just feel like he should have been like matching your pace.

Yeah.

Yeah.

and running with you.

That's what I'm saying.

Yeah, that's love.

That's that's true.

He should have.

He, I mean, yeah, it's grounds for divorce now that I think about it.

Yeah, it is definitely.

Instead, he's just calling you like names and stuff that I don't think he should be calling you.

No, and it's totally fine to bring things up from like over a decade ago and like whack the other person over the head with it, right?

You bring it up or you get home.

That one time where I have a little word of you, you little ship.

Yeah, you ship.

Yeah.

Ship back.

You ship head.

You shiphead.

So you're running all the way home.

Running all the way home.

And then one of the scariest days, so totally freaked out.

And then these two women turn up with a man who is like, turns out he's like the man that climbs up the coconut trees with his bare hands and feet.

And the two women were cooks and they cook us the full kahuna, the full curry and rice.

And so they light these fires using cinnamon bark, because cinnamon's native to Sri Lanka.

It smells gorgeous.

They're clay pots.

They're cooking like a baby jackfruit curry, a beetroot curry, leeks curry, cashew nuts, like just all of this dreamy stuff, like using the coconuts that the man is like carefully throwing down to them.

They're cracking them open.

They're using the fresh coconut.

They're using the coconut water.

It's the most sensational meal I've ever had.

It was so good.

And I'd have the naan alongside.

Yes.

So this is my dream meal.

Amazing.

And are you at this point as well, you're relieved that you haven't been killed by a snake?

Well, exactly.

That must have added to it.

Yeah, I think it did add to it.

Because where were you?

It sounds like you were outside, but

you were.

Yes, so we were eating.

Yes.

Are you not worried the snakes are going to come back?

Well, it was a cleared space.

I think we'd be able to,

I'd be able to see if there were snakes.

It wasn't in the rain for us.

No, it was light.

Okay.

That's almost quite a good sort of dining experience, like a pop-up dining experience where you scare someone with sort of the threat of death or wild animals, and then you serve them their meal, and they're automatically going to enjoy the meal more.

I think.

Yes, although I do feel like I've remembered meals more when there's been like a moment of jeopardy because I was can't remember the name of the fort in India, Anker Fort.

I can't remember the name of the fort.

He and I didn't pay to sit on the elephants to go up to the fort.

We walked up them, but we were walking alongside the elephants.

But the road on the way to the fort had two walls, and so there was like one time where I felt like I was going to be squashed by an elephant butt.

Yeah.

And then had a really good salad after that.

I remember that salad.

There it is.

I think this is the way forward.

I think this is, you know, that's that third Michelin star.

Yeah.

I didn't even remember being on the camel because there was no jeopardy.

No.

Yeah.

But always pay for the elephant is what I've realised.

I think that's good, a good rule for life in general.

Amber Fort.

Amber Fort.

Amber Fort.

Yes.

What if someone offered you freebie, free elephant?

Would you?

Would you be like, no, I'll pay for this elephant because I don't trust

a free elephant.

Well, I feel like that would be taking advantage of the elephant if it wasn't paid for its services.

Sure.

I'm not sure how much of the money the elephant's seeing.

Oh, I like to think that there's...

Peanuts?

Yeah.

Yeah.

A little,

what else might elephants have?

I think they mainly like eating peanuts.

Yeah.

A little bit of pineapple, maybe?

A pineapple?

Well, I mean, I don't know.

I don't know, but I'd imagine that they like pineapples.

Juicy, sweet.

I thought you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

I thought that's the phrase.

That's the phrase.

Yeah, yeah.

But elephants eat peanuts.

Yeah.

But I think that's because they've not been given anything else as an option.

Yeah.

I'm still surprised that I was reading about pandas the other day.

I've got kids.

They're interested in pandas.

And I think I've got a I think I eat like a panda, not as a knife, you know, 99% bamboo.

Yeah.

But they are like 98% sort of vegetarian, being vegetarian.

And then like the other 2% I think is made up with like small mammals and eggs and things like that.

And

I think that's quite a nice way to eat.

I was quite.

I think it is.

And I, you know, I should, I should do that more, but you know, eat like a panda.

I'd say eat like a panda, but I'd say maybe 70% of my diet is small mammals and eggs.

Yeah.

Mainly.

It's like, I'm going to go to the shop laughing, do you want to use small mammals and eggs?

That's mainly what I'm doing.

It's crazy that they just, I mean, they predominantly do eat bamboo and they have to eat loads of it because they're quite chunky, aren't they?

And I imagine there's like tons of calories in bamboo.

So I think they are like chewing most of the day.

And quite a lot of bamboo, I read, is like quite fibrous.

And so they go, they have like up to TMI, 50 bowel movements a day.

50.

Yes.

That's the loudest they'd ever talked on the podcast.

50.

I mean, you'd think that they might adapt their diets a little bit more

to, I don't know, they might not need so much fiber.

And so much more.

No wonder they're on the verge of extinction.

Yeah.

If I had 50 dumps a day, I'd be doing well to make it through the night.

What was your favourite of the you said?

There's about three different curries.

Yeah, there were multiple curries.

And like some of them were quite unusual, like a cashew curry.

There was like a garlic curry, which is mind-blowing because it's not what you'd, you wouldn't, it's not actually as garlicky as you imagine it might be.

But my favourite one was the young jackfruit.

It's like, have you had jackfruit?

Like it was, it's not like the tinned stuff that like is more commonly available here, but it was like super sweet and like quite meaty.

But they pair it with something called garaka, which is like a Malabari tamarind.

It's like a berry and it sort of gives a sourness to it.

And it was really good, like phenomenally, phenomenally good.

And they have this lovely Pol Sambal, which is like a

fresh coconut relish, I guess you'd call it.

Nice.

And then some putu and rice.

It was just...

That sounds so good.

It was really, really good.

It was really, like, really, really lovely.

James got scared there when you said Goraka because Goraka is the name of the villain in Ghostbusters

Frozen Isle.

Frozen Empire.

James is in Ghostbusters Frozen Empire.

We had to defeat Goraka.

Oh, because he was a good deal.

The name of the ice demon who was trying to extinct humans.

So I'm afraid your meal sounded lovely.

And then you mentioned probably

the biggest challenge I've faced in my life, which is

defeating Goraka.

And that was that took me away.

And then you tuned out.

Luckily, I was listening because it sounds amazing.

That's all I was thinking was: if Garaka's involved in this meal, we've got to figure out how to get him back in the brass orb or

how to contain him somehow, because otherwise...

And that's up to you.

You're the brains.

I'm the brains.

I work in the lab.

I've got to figure out

how to contain Garaka.

And if he has managed to get a human to say the chant, which will release him, then we're toast.

I mean, there's not much we can do.

But could you use your magic lamp to get...

I'm a scientist in Garaka's world.

This is where it gets difficult.

Actually, maybe if I was a genie, if we're doing a crossover of Off Menu and Ghostbusters Frozen Empire, then I guess I am a genie still.

And then there's a chance I could beat him.

I don't think we can do a crossover.

I could get him in the brass lamp.

But then I'd have to go in there with him and room with Garaka.

He'd be my flatmate.

That way, I'd hate that.

I hate Garaka.

Yeah.

But this Garaka sounds really nice.

It is very nice.

You can't really separate the two.

Yeah, sorry about that.

PTSD.

It's okay.

Your dream side dish.

So I love Sri Lankan food.

I suppose when I've eaten it for an extended period of time, I feel the need for something fresh and crunchy.

And my love language is tomatoes.

So I'm not quite crunchy, but like I love just sliced tomatoes, a little bit of crunchy salt on there.

If you're offering to make it a bit more fancy in my dream restaurant, like maybe, you know, that sort of tarka thing where you kind of heat some oil, like let's say coconut oil, mustard seeds, garlic, curry leaves, which have this lovely citrus and smoke flavor, a little bit of lime juice, pour it over.

That's what I'd want to scoop up with my naan bread from my local kebab shop.

Shout out as well.

You're saying tomatoes the tomato curry recipe oh in east as well stunning oh that sounds good it's so good i i'm amazed that so many people have cooked that recipe because it is it's tomatoes yeah yeah well that's what intrigued intrigued me about it uh-huh but it's just so it's so flavorful like and it's got just that that sweetness as well and the acidity and it's just it's proper delicious i love that recipe thank you i i think it's like there's an unlocking moment in there which i quite like because you don't often get it in cooking where like it transforms but you can kind of see the point at which it transforms and that is that like all the milk solids are like burnt off the or cooked off because you separate the curry into two pans and then you're basically just driving off the milk solids until you're left with this like quite oily mass that just like wraps itself around the tomatoes and all the spices so I think it is like a really magical dish that is kind of bonkers because it is just a tomato curry but I love it I love it too but then yeah you get rid of all the the milk but it's still taste it's still got that creamy taste to it as well.

Yeah, it's rich, isn't it?

It's really good.

I don't need to do that again.

Thank you.

Sounds delicious.

Really, I should, I should get this book and start learning these recipes.

It's been recommended to you so many times.

I cook.

I've heard you talking about masks.

You cook.

Yeah, yeah.

Making a match.

Dream drink.

Okay, so my dream drink, it's one of those cocktails that has a suggestive name.

Can we guess?

I mean, sure, guess away.

The only one I can think of is,

I mean, I've definitely told this story on the podcast before.

Once when I was little, I was in a restaurant with my mum and I was reading the cocktail list going, have you had a, and just going through all of the different cocktails.

And then she knew what was going to happen.

She was like, you know, you can tell something's going to happen and you can't get there quick enough to stop it.

It all goes in slow motion.

And I said really loudly, have you had a slow, comfortable screw against a wall?

Oh, no.

I thought it was going to be screaming or gas.

Yeah, well, I think that was later on in the menu.

So she was like, just took the menu off me at that point.

Yes, I've had all of those.

Thank you.

I wish more than anything that I knew Ed Gamble as a little boy.

But not like when I was a boy as well.

I want to know Ed now.

Like me, my age.

That's weird, man.

And Ed

as that little kid.

Huh?

You wish I was a little boy now?

Yeah.

I think that would be great.

I think if Ed was like whatever age he was in that story, I think it would be really fun hanging out with him.

Yeah.

I think it would be.

Still is now, but like that kid's funny, man.

So what's your cocktail?

It's super cringe-worthy to order.

It's called Naked and Famous.

Yeah, that's a shame.

It's not something that you'd want to Google.

No.

So instead, I can tell you how to make it.

Yes.

So it's equal parts: mezcal, lime, juice, apparel, and yellow chatarisse.

Now, we're just some cocktails.

I don't really like reading what's in cocktails because I'm like, I don't even know what that ingredient is.

I think we're just getting there with chatarouse.

I've got no idea what that is.

Yeah, I've never been sure.

I mean, I don't think anybody knows.

So I ordered a bottle the other week so I could make more cocktails at home.

And I was limited to one bottle.

per week.

And this little note of this website that I ordered it off said, it will be, your order will be cancelled if you order more than two bottles so it's been going since the 1600s i'll tell you what i know right made by carthusian monks they don't really like making it turns out that's why there's not that much of it left and you can only order one it's still the monks making it it's still the monks making it and so they were handed a manuscript in the 1600s that it was the elixir of life, like this potion that could cure all ills, that had 130 different botanicals on it.

And so they, I think they make it, but reluctantly and slowly.

I love this.

Grumpy monks.

Because it's such a secret recipe, nobody knows what's in it.

So I don't know what to say.

Okay.

So what's the, is it the botanical sort of flavor to it?

Yeah, well, so I've only ever had it in the cocktail.

And so I've ordered this bottle.

It hasn't arrived.

But like, I think what it gives, like, the cocktail is, you know, the colour of Sunny D or Miami sunset.

It doesn't taste like Sunny D.

It's like quite complicated, elegant.

I love that you're calling it Sunny D, by by the way.

Yeah.

I know it is called Sunny D now, but I still call it Sunny Delight in my head because that was what it was originally called when it came out.

But now I know it's changed its name fully because it was then, the slang term was Sunny D for the cool kids.

And then they just went full all in, changing it, calling it Sunny D.

Right.

But I've not heard someone call it Sunny D out loud because it doesn't really come up much in conversation.

Right.

And Sunny D at the time maybe had worse press than Turkey Twizzle.

Is it still around?

I think it might still be, but it was like, that that was one of the things where you're like, I can't believe we're giving our kids this.

Yes, definitely.

Yeah, I had to really beg to have some.

Like, it was, we weren't getting that very often in the house.

No, whereas, please let me have some, Sonny Delight, please.

Yeah, I want to go orange.

I mean, I don't know what color I would have turned.

Like, what does brown and orange make together?

Maybe as if I'd gone to like a tanning salon or something.

Yeah,

just like might have worked lovely, actually.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Like a Trumpian.

So it's the mescal, which I guess is smoke.

Smoky.

Yes.

Yes.

A smoky, sour, like quite sort of bright.

I mean, I don't know how you describe apparel, like slightly fruitful,

maybe.

It's got some bitterness to it as well.

Yes, a bit of bitterness.

They're all very like big flavours.

Yeah.

But it's so, like, I haven't had my mind blown like that by a drink.

ever, I don't think.

And was just in search of my favourite cocktail.

And I love a margarita, don't get me wrong.

But this is, it's like a sort of elevated margarita.

it's very good that sounds so good i mean i don't know what the chartreuse tastes like i i know for a fact that the monks are going to be livid that we're talking about it on the podcast yeah hey hey you monks if you're listening to this bad luck everyone's going to order chartreuse now you've got to keep on making it you've got to keep on making it sing you in heaven i i think part of the reason why i loved it so much as well is that um i think the chartreuse not don't you know i'm not sure about this but i think it's 80 proof oh yeah and so it's like one of those drinks where like one isn't enough and two is definitely too many.

It's good.

I'm going to try and make that.

I've got some Mescal at home.

Shout out to Cole.

Sent me that ages ago.

I've never cracked into it.

Lovely.

Lime's easy.

Yeah, lime juice.

I think I've got some apparole as well, actually.

So this is exciting.

So it's just the

old monk juice.

Yeah.

I've got to get the monk juice.

That's the hard thing.

Also, I'm thinking when you first ordered it, because you're saying the name.

It's like awkward to order.

So the first, can you remember the first time you went, I'm going to try it?

Yeah.

But I've got to say, naked, can I have a naked and famous to this bartender?

Well, I actually didn't have to say it because they got my order wrong.

So I was meant to have having a non-alcoholic drink at this particular bar, and they served me this.

And that's maybe why my mind was blown because I was like, gosh, this is the best non-alcoholic drink I've ever had in my life.

You'd ordered a clothed and anonymous.

The non-alcoholic version.

Yeah.

Yeah, but

so luckily I I didn't have to say it that time around.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's good.

And now you can, do you make them at home?

Well, I'm still waiting on the show.

You're waiting on the shop.

Yeah, so is it?

But I've had to sort of explain how to make it.

But it's,

yeah, I haven't had many of them, but it is like, it's, you know, it's a diamond in the rough.

It's definitely my favourite drink.

It sounds great.

I'm definitely going to try and make it.

It's the first shout out for Naked and Famous on the

pod.

So that'll become a staple now of Ed's life.

Yeah.

Drink it every day.

Yeah.

Probably not every day, maybe.

Well, you you could cook the tomato curry all the time.

Yeah.

You trust Mira.

I do trust Mira, but I feel like a naked and famous every day is probably a bad idea.

Like, if you were to be in your dream restaurant every day, maybe you wouldn't.

It's a bit like, you know, there's people who, there is someone, isn't there, out there who eats Christmas dinner every day.

Yeah.

But you wouldn't actually want to do that because it would really spoil it.

No, I think to be in the dream restaurant every day is a nightmare.

Yes.

Yes.

It becomes a nightmare.

That's the film we're going to make of the podcast.

Yeah.

It's someone we get trapped in here and it becomes a nightmare restaurant.

Not with Garaka.

Oh, fucking god.

Please stop saying Garaka.

We've got to get through this episode.

He's absolutely terrified of it.

Garaka ever comes in.

Yeah.

I don't know what I'm going to.

It's third down.

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We arrive at your dream dessert.

My dream pudding is a lemon meringue pie, or a tart, lemon meringue tart.

But specifically, it's Elio's lemon meringue tart.

So when I was younger, I lived in North Lincolnshire, and the most exciting night you could have was a night at Elio's, which is this Italian restaurant a stone's throw away from the Humber Bridge, Barton-upon-Humber.

And the most exciting thing in the most exciting restaurant was the lemon meringue tart.

And like, this is a typical, you know, 1980s, 1990s Italian restaurant.

I mean, we've got like plastic crab nets all around, the sides on the walls, like the whole place just like smells like este lauder and brute.

There's people, like, you know, celebrating like big birthdays there, women with big hair, downing the limoncello shots.

And I definitely wasn't going to do a fisherman's wharf before I got to pudding because, like, that was the best thing that you could have.

And so I'd like to share a tomato spaghetti with my sister and then just make sure to get through to it.

Now, Elio, unfortunately, is retired.

The restaurant's been sold.

And I live in London, which is a, you know, the city of everything.

But I can't, haven't yet found like something that replicates what he did.

Like super thin, beautiful pastry, like zingy zangy, like lemony filling, and like real whippy sort of meringue on the top.

Like, the closest I've come to it is the River Cafe.

They do an astounding lemon tart, which is beauty and grace, and it's like magnificent.

Uh, it's sort of almost like you end up winking after you've had a bite of it because it's really zingy-zangy.

You know, that kind of like

you have to be facing away from like the table so that they're not.

That's the last time you start ordering a naked and famous

when you're feeling zingy zangy in the love you feel the river cafe though i mean you know it's a rare occurrence for me to go to the river cafe because it's

so i was far away and

yes um but i don't trust myself to get to pudding at the river cafe and not have the chocolate nemesis so i'm not really a i'm not really a chocolate i know that i feel like the world's divided maybe between like a sort of zingy zangy but sort of comforting thing to round out a meal and then that kind of what i'm going to say like mouth you know that kind of cheese, chocolate, like something quite dense.

And I don't know.

You're Zingi Zangi.

I'm Zingi Zangi.

Is Hugh the other one?

No, he's one of those, he's very irritating when it comes to pudding because he says he'll share.

And then it's not like he orders one, but then I'm kind of left eating it by myself.

And I think, I really want to be able to share in this pudding with you.

You know, when you're like at the cinema with someone, but you know they're not really enjoying the film.

And that's kind of annoying because it's kind of like, it kind of creeps into my skin.

I'm very aware of it for the whole film.

It's a bit like that with pudding I'm not like grateful that he's not sharing because I get all the pudding to myself I'm like no no I want you to like crack the top of the and you both want to be talking about how delicious it is yeah yeah would you prefer a food sharer or a not food sharer oh i love a food sharer and i love sharing food and it is like i get exactly what you mean like it's nice especially with your partner to be like yeah sharing the dish puddings nothing else i guess the fear is because i have met someone who doesn't food share at all so my my agent doesn't food share at all and that's because she doesn't want to try your food she takes 15 of all of your food

but um for the fear that what i've ordered is better than what she's ordered yeah i understand i do understand that instinct yeah and and then that you'll be ruined so i do do that with hugh i food share and then if i really like it his life becomes quite difficult then because i will expect him to hand over the rest of his meal and to swap

and that just is like yeah you know just something that he'll have to do when we all have to make sacrifices in relationships don't we sure sure yeah it's like a zero-sum game yeah if he's gonna run ahead and leave you for dust and

yeah yeah you should swap food with him yeah

so is that is that the oh no you want the lemon meringue tart from ellio's

yeah i mean i suppose what i'd say is that like maybe the lem maybe i don't want to throw shade on like the river cafe's lemon tart because it is amazing but maybe the lemon tart from the river cafe but could they put on i mean could you genie put on like a bit of the whippy meringue over the top of that yeah yeah absolutely it'd be my pleasure.

What's the ratio?

I think we always ask this when people bring up the lemon meringue pie or tart.

Because you're saying lemerang tart, not pie.

So what's the difference?

I know, you know,

I realized I sort of said, did I say pie and then switch to tart?

I did.

And I thought, oh, I have actually never really known.

Is it deeper?

I guess like a pie deeper.

I'm just wondering if one of them is American and one's the English way.

I mean, I feel like pie is.

the Americanization, the American one, and that ours is like a tart.

But I'm not not sure.

I think I've got mixed up because of the River Cafe one, which is a tart.

And I haven't ordered Elio's lemerang pie tart in a long time.

So I can't remember which one it was.

But you'd imagine a pie to be a bit more deep, disheartened.

Deep.

Yeah.

So I'd go with like a very thin pastry.

And the River Cafe's pastry is astoundingly good, flaky, in all the right places, just like melts.

That's what you want, right?

And then you want the lemon, I want the lemon filling to be not too rubbery.

No, you don't want it to be rubbery at all.

And just like on

the wrong side of zingy zangy.

So you kind of want it to kind of slap your eyes shut because you're eating it and you're like, wow.

It's a bit too much.

Yeah.

I semi-want to be woken up at the end of a meal.

And then I want to go for a brisk walk, especially like if you're at the river cab, because there's nice walks around there.

Around the river.

Yeah.

But quite a lot of the lemon filling, because that is just the best.

How much measurements are we talking here?

An inch?

Gosh.

Do you still work in inches?

What is an inch?

Is it like two and a half centimetres?

I'm a metric.

I'm a metric mirror.

Yeah, maybe two and a half centimeters.

Maybe one, I don't know, maybe one and a half of just pure filling, not including the pastry.

Yeah.

And then like maybe about two centimetres at, oh, I don't know.

It's kind of, there's a gradient, isn't there, to the meringue?

Cause it has to sort of

be a little bit.

And so top of the peak, what is that?

Eight, eight centimetres?

Like fading away.

And so you want to get to the, you want to, you want to eat the nose first, maybe.

I agree with the lemon being the best, but you know,

look, a lot of people like it but that lemon meringue tart at gloria those and the the other restaurants that big mama have are like when it's like that much meringue it's like it's like 30 centimeters of of meringue i mean it's it's fun but i might feel a bit sick after that i think yeah yeah i can't i can't get through that i'd happily eat a bowl of that sort of meringue yeah and then have a lemon tart without meringue on the side and then sit there just going back and forth between the two oh yes that is that's my new way to drink coffee with the milk and the um coffee separately.

Benito put it straight in your coffee.

I know he did.

I was too embarrassed to say it.

He'd already embarrassed himself with

Benito's coffee.

He had to put over all the all the different milks on the side, Ben.

No, you see, that's the kind of quirk and whimsy you can get away with in your own house when you're, you know, when you, because I, you know, write from home, I work from home.

Whereas if you go somewhere, you just look like a real oddball if you if you ask for the milk separately, as if you don't trust the other person to get your little splash right.

And so you don't want to establish that first off being like, you know, I don't trust you to get the splash right.

Yeah.

You know, he did check though, like a gentleman.

He did.

He bought over your coffee and he said, is that enough milk?

He did.

He said yes.

I did.

Were you being polite?

Because you're on the podcast now.

You can be honest about if he got it right or not.

He did.

So the thing about oat milk, though, is that

it's not like normal milk.

Listen, normal milk, it is normal milk, but I mean dairy in that like the colour, you know, there's like gradients.

It's like sometimes depending on the brand of the oat milk, it will just still look like quite murky, but taste quite sort of like you want it to taste, you know, to sort of take the edge off the coffee.

And so it's quite hard to tell, I think, with a, with, with oat milk, whether it is like the right amount or not.

And so I think I did say it, you know, maybe, maybe to please Benito, but it turns out, I mean, I, you know, I've drunk a lot of it and it is, it's really good.

You absolutely smash the bread.

Yeah, he smashed it.

Yeah, he did.

Well, if you're trying to please Benito, I've got bad news for you.

He cannot be pleased.

I'm going to leave the menu back to you now.

See how you feel about it.

You would like sparkling water, no ice.

Yes.

And a cup of tea.

We'll throw the cup of tea there for you because that's mainly water.

Pop-ums of bread.

You want the naan from your local kebab shop.

Starter, panipuri.

Main course, Sri Lankan curry and rice from Samakanda.

And then the naan is going to be with that.

Side dish, sliced tomatoes with crunchy salt.

Oh, I think we've talked about that enough, actually.

It's so good.

Sliced tomatoes with crunchy salt and tark and tarka?

We call it chonk in Gujarati, but it's...

Chunk.

Chonk.

I love that.

Yeah, we'll stick with chunk.

Yeah.

We'll call it chonk.

A little spicy oil over the top.

That's very satisfying to say.

Drink, naked and famous.

Dessert, the lemon meringue tart from River Cafe with the whipping meringue from Elio's.

Yes.

On top.

Delicious.

I think that sounds great.

That's an incredible menu.

I'd have all of that.

Yeah.

Which is rare.

You can say it's Mary and the other guests are.

But that sounds great.

And like, I think.

Thanks, James.

Actually, the tomatoes thing is that weirdly reading it back.

I was like, I'd love some tomatoes now with some crunchy sauce.

Well, that's something you can definitely just go and do at home.

I don't know.

Is it in the cookbook?

It isn't.

But you both need to give it a little bit of a colour.

You don't know how to do it.

I can write something down for you.

Yes.

Yeah.

I appreciate that.

But you have to do a little drawing to go in Mira's copy of her own book as a bookmark.

Okay, true.

True.

No problem.

I've got a you don't have to write Love Mummy on the back of the copy.

Well, I always write that.

Can we be in the next cookbook like Hugh?

We certainly can.

Just one

page, we're just suddenly there.

Yeah, just having food in the background.

You know, like, because Hugh's got like half of his face and then he's like cut off at the end of the page.

So we could like be like that.

So people could be like, set those off menu, guys.

Like we are in the Bino.

Like we are in the Beano, for example in the beano yes we're in one panel of a uh issue of the beano in a mini the minx cartoon in a restaurant very cool half our faces just in the background yeah little easter egg for people and me and the minks is the coolest one was that a mic drop moment for you that's pretty awesome i lost my completely lost my mind when that happened yeah i would too yeah if you told me that as a little kid i would have been like well i i don't care what else happens to me in my life yeah we we could have a sort of a limb and we could have a guest the limb competition that could be one of those easter eggs you know when you get books, especially with kids' books, they're like,

a lot of the Julia Donaldson kids' books, there's the Gruffalo on each page and then you have to kind of find it in the other books.

It's not the Gruffalo book.

Right.

And so with my next cookbook, what we could have is like...

A limb in every page.

Yes.

Well, not

on every page.

But then people would have to guess who's who.

And then we could, I don't know, they'd be like, he could unlock some recipes.

That's good.

Or like a piece of paper.

They'd guess it's popular.

If they guess it.

A new recipe.

Yeah.

The chopped tomatoes.

But I think people should go and buy dinner.

I I cannot wait to start cooking things from there.

Thank you.

Thank you so much, Mira.

Thanks so much for having me.

Thank you, Mira.

Sorry about Ben.

Just heard that soda bread doesn't have yeast in it.

So I was right in the intro.

This Justin.

This Justin does not have yeast.

Thank you so much to Mira for coming on the podcast.

That was absolutely fantastic.

That menu was delicious.

Yep, I'd eat all of that.

I think you're literally going to eat at least one thing off that menu tonight, aren't you?

Ed?

Yeah,

I think so.

At least one.

Hunt it down, seek it out.

I can't wait.

Also didn't say soda bread.

No, it didn't say soda bread, said none.

So that's good.

Yeah, that's good.

I'm glad because the rest of the menu was so nice.

And, you know, if we'd kicked Mira out early, she wouldn't have had to put up with all your Garaka bullshit.

What?

Ed, that's serious business.

And I wasn't the only one.

As soon as she said Garaka, I was like, there's going to be a lot of explaining to do in a second because I felt you go, oh, no.

And did not listen to anything else that Mira was saying.

Couldn't tell you.

Couldn't tell you what was said after that.

Because you're thinking about Garaka.

It's a lot to worry about that.

And as you just explained there, I did not bring Garaka up.

Yes, no, you didn't bring Garaka.

Mira brought it up.

You normally do.

You're the one who normally brings up Garaka.

Mira brought up Garaka, and I hate him.

And so I couldn't listen to the rest of the story of what was in the food.

Yeah.

Because I just heard Garaka's name and it made me so furious about that time when, I mean,

luckily we we had uh a fire master with us who's the firemaster again kamail kamail yes and he did really well and we all we all we all pulled together as a team but it was really touch and go and when someone brings up garaka just so nonchalantly like that how am i meant to just keep my head in the podcast man fair enough fair enough do go and buy a copy of dinner yeah by mira soda it is looking like it's it's going to be my new thing james i think it is and uh also we should say thank you to mira who bought us it in some sauce.

This is something we didn't really talk about in the podcast because I think we thought...

So Mira came here and gave each of us, all three of us, a bottle of

this sauce.

Algerian.

Algerian.

And said it's her favorite sauce, favourite sauce.

She doesn't really know what's in it.

Said it's great on everything.

It's so delicious.

And I thought, well, this will feature in the menu.

I'm assuming it's going to come up in the podcast.

And it didn't.

Maybe it's my fault we're talking about Garaka too much.

But like,

but we would like to shout it out because just feel like this is clearly Mira's favourite condiment.

Yeah.

We've all been gifted.

It looks like the sort of sauce I wouldn't normally have in my house because I'd start just squirting it directly into my mouth.

Yeah, well, that's what's going to happen.

Yeah.

You're taking this home and you're going to be squirting it into your mouth.

Yeah.

Yeah, very excited to see.

Also, she was like, I can't really describe to you what it's like.

It just is.

It's a bit surratra mayo-y.

It looks like it's got a sort of mayo-y consistency, but there's a picture of grilled meat on the label.

So I guess it goes well with grilled meat.

Maybe I'll, you know grill myself up a bit of lamb

and hit it up with that Algerian

yeah yeah I like that yeah nice one I think that's pretty cool

anything else Benito says no oh no there is something else this little worm has a naan jar and and and oh yeah and he didn't didn't talk about it in the episode

he he has this thing where he's like oh don't talk in the episodes as soon as we finish the recording benito says to mirror i have a naan jar and we're like what the fuck?

Yeah, I have a naan jar because there's a place that does naans for 50p near me.

Yeah, has a whole thing about it.

Yeah.

This is what happens when producers refuse to talk.

It's like, that would have been interesting for the listener.

He said, no, it's a naan jar and simultaneously the window cleaner jar.

Yes, he did say it's also the window cleaner jar.

And then Ed said, don't get those confused.

And he did a mime of cleaning a window.

With a naan.

And it was clearly with a naan.

And he said, oh, these windows are looking a bit greasy.

Yeah.

And I was like, well, that could have been on the podcast.

More aggressive.

Except for you keeping all of your stuff to yourself.

You know, your little secrets over there.

It meant that we couldn't do it.

Yeah.

Benita, do you ever spend so much on nuns that you can't pay the window cleaner?

Benita says it's impossible because of how cheap they are.

I'm assuming he's referring to the nuns and not the window cleaner.

Yeah, the window cleaner's not listening to this.

Yeah.

When I lived with my mum, there was a window cleaner.

I was terrified because you sort of never knew when he was going to come.

So I was a never nude.

You were the opposite of naked and famous.

Yeah, I was.

Yeah.

Clothed and anonymous.

It's funny you should refer self-support when you were a kid.

Yeah.

Thank you very much for listening to our menu.

We will see you again next week.

Goodbye.

Goodbye.

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Hello, I'm Carrie Add.

I'm Sarah.

And we are the Weirdos Book Club Podcast.

We are doing a very special live show show as part of the London Podcast Festival.

The date is Thursday, 11th of September.

The time is 7pm.

And our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies.

Tickets from kingsplace.co.uk.

Single ladies is coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September.

At the London Podcast Festival.

The rumours are true Saturday, the 13th of September at King's Place.

Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet.