Ep 198: Graham Coxon

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Welcome to the Off-Menu podcast, chopping up the lemons of conversation, putting them in the water of the internet, adding the sugar of humor, mashing it all together, you got yourself fresh podcast lemonade.

When life gives you lemons, listen to off-menu.

Oh.

That's Ed Gamble.

My name is James A.

Caster.

We own a dream restaurant and every single week we invite in a guest and we ask them their favourite ever starter main course dessert, side dish and drink, not in that order.

And this week, our guest is Graham Coxon.

Graham Coxon, of course, James.

Man.

Blur.

This is big.

Big.

This is big stuff.

This is exciting stuff.

I'm going to try and keep it together and play it cool.

whenever you say that before a guest comes in you never do

yes it's hard to play it cool when your job is to ask some questions yeah because you you don't want them to come in and then you're like all right yeah yeah you got you got to be nice and welcoming yeah and then you've also got to ask some questions in the interviews and you just end up asking questions that show how much you know about this yes because you playing it cool unfortunately is going to be still a sparkling water oh blah

yeah that's what it's going to be i mean this is this is a big band for me, man.

This is like from when I was a itty-bitty baby up until now.

They're your spine shank.

They're my spine shank, yeah.

I mean, if I may make such a lofty comparison.

Yes.

And also, Blur have a new album out at the minute, The Ballad of Darren.

The Ballad of Darren is out now, and you can go and watch the video for St.

Charles Square as well.

Yes, and get the new album, watch the new music videos.

And actually, you know, mate, we've got...

We've got some young listeners to this podcast.

Maybe they've not gone back and done the whole Blur back catalogue.

And I highly recommend they do.

Yes, and listen to the spine shank cover of my whilst my guitar gently weeps.

What the fuck?

Okay.

Yeah, do that.

Listen to Spine Shank

cover the Beatles.

Holy fuck.

I didn't know that had happened.

No, look, I love Blur.

Very excited to talk to Graham.

Hoping, though, he doesn't pick a secret ingredient, though, James.

Yes.

Because, look, well, there may be a new Blur album out.

We don't want Graham to be out of the dream restaurant.

No, we do not.

Every week we have a secret ingredient, an ingredient which we deem to be unacceptable and we will kick the guest out if they say it and this week the secret ingredient is beaujolais you pick this one james i pick this one sometimes we pick secret ingredients that are relevant to the guest and beaujolais is a secret ingredient because in charmless man by blur uh the charmless man knows his claret from his beaujolais so you've gone with beaujolais rather than claret

yeah just because it's more fun to say yes absolutely uh well there might be a chance that he picks it yeah and you know then we get to see what it's like when we kick someone out that we don't know very well, yeah, at all.

Actually, we don't know him, be interesting.

Yeah, we kicked out Jade Adams, but uh, we knew that'd be a laugh.

We don't know what it'd be like to kick out.

I imagine he'll shrug his shoulders and go, All right, yeah, I think he'll be happy to knock off a bit early.

Yeah, see you later, guys.

So, this is the off-menu menu, the menu

of Graham Carson Carson.

Welcome Graham to the Dream Restaurant.

Thank you very much.

Nice to be here.

Welcome, Graham Coxon, to the Dream Restaurant.

We've been expecting you for some time.

Have you?

Yeah, why?

Oh, for so many reasons.

Because I'm always in dream places.

You are?

What are your favourite dream places to be in?

They're not my favourite dream places to be in, but they're dream places that I find myself in most nights if I sleep with my arm in a bit funny.

Yeah, yeah.

And that's in run-down sort of Dickensian sort of towns that are very menacing trying to find my way home or trying trying to find somebody I'm looking for so that's one of your main dreams that you have that's how I have it most nights yeah and yeah who are the people that you're looking for

maybe my partner things like that it's sort of anxiety driven yeah

dreams and and quite often there's menacing characters about

and stuff like that and and it and it and and

no food is involved, but there seems to always be a bit of a way to get home and things getting in your way.

So what does that mean?

Yeah,

I guess you're worried about finding your way home, I guess.

Maybe you feel like you've drifted from

your authentic self, who you once were.

What do you think?

You know, you're trying to find your way back to the real you.

I'd love to do that.

But why is it Dickensian, though?

That's the tricky thing.

Yeah, it's sort of menacing and run down.

Yeah.

that's what it is and and and it's almost like how when you were waiting for a night bus in the early 90s you had that sort of feeling about it because that was pretty decentian now looking back worried if it's going to show up or not yeah and what the clientele are going to be like yeah clientele i'd say clientele i'd say clientele someone said clientele also one of them an american way to say it yeah i bet maybe clientele yeah you know you don't know whether you're going to get hassled and stuff like that yeah in decentian times bill sykes and stuff oh he'd be the worst he'd be the what to be on a night bus I'd hate it if Bill Sykes was on my night bus I think I'd get an over yeah yeah I'll be straight off would you stay on the night bus if Bill Sykes was on there no no especially if I had bullseye with him imagine if he's got bullseye with him like bullseye is horrible no but he's all right bullseye in the end he turns on him doesn't he yeah

he gives him away yeah that's true I guess now actually if you're on a night bus and Bill Sykes gone and bullseye was like they probably wouldn't be together no it'd be be quite awkward that they've bumped into each other again.

And he'd be like, oh, fucking bullseyes on it.

Whereas if Fagan was on my night bus, I think that would be a laugh.

Fagin's always almost like

the most sort of worst, isn't he?

You wouldn't trust him.

Do you think?

I like Fagan.

He's a stealth, nasty piece of work.

Whereas, you know, you know where you are with Bill Sykes.

Yeah, I suppose so.

He's less subtle, isn't he?

No.

Yeah.

Fagin's tricksy.

You know, and these people don't just look like Oliver Reed.

You know, the real ones, they were far worse, I reckon,

that these characters were based on.

Well, I was in a production of Oliver when I was at school,

and

my teachers all played the adult roles.

It's weird, isn't it?

That is weird.

Yeah, I was in a Lamb Dram type affair that was a bit like that, too.

Of Oliver?

Yeah.

Who did you play, Graham?

I was a policeman.

Not a very big part.

Did you arrest Oliver?

No, I sort of had to,

I don't know, just react and point and hold my hat and run off stage, sort of thing.

that's what they did a lot.

Bill Sykes in the production of Oliver I Was In was played by Mr.

Hassan the rowing coach.

Really?

Yes.

He was also a geography teacher.

Did he have a kosh?

Yeah, he had a kosh.

He was very bad at

acting, I would say.

Yeah, I don't know why they didn't let kids play the adult roles.

Weird for the adults to decide to do it.

Headmaster was a fake role.

They always want to get in on it, don't they?

Yeah.

Headmaster was fake.

Do you think that your experience playing the police officer, is there any of that performance retained on the new blur album, The Ballad of Darren?

Being a folks.

One of the worst links you've ever done.

Well,

that's good.

That's a good one.

I do police the sonics.

Yeah.

A little bit.

I suppose I

wander up and down and, you know, swing me

like a propeller.

Yeah.

A little bit up and down the studio and make sure everything's okay.

Couldn't that snare drum sound be better, better, sir?

Yeah.

And things like that.

But not really, apart from that.

No other comparisons to you playing the policeman in Oliver?

No, no.

I did more.

I mean, that wasn't my best.

I did more stuff.

You know, we were in a lot of school productions and with Damon as well.

We were both in, you know, Guys and Dolls, Orpheus in the Underworld, The Bartered Bride, Oh, What a Lovely War.

And so on and so on.

Snap.

Were you in Damon ever like a double act in those plays?

No, no, not at at all he was less shy he was a bit more extroverted he was really you know he was really into it yeah and i go into it in my book um and the first time i saw him school assembly that he was doing office gee officer krubkey

and i was like oh my god the gall of this cloak i mean unbelievable yeah you know he's he was sort of not not very old and um just doing it doing this thing like a professional

especially compared to everybody else on stage in that school assembly who was sort of like, you know, looking really awkward and half asleep.

He was like, pizzazz.

So

he would always get proper parts, like he would be playing Zeus or, you know, this or that or the other.

And I would have multiple parts or just a sort of a lower thing, imaged part,

sort of lower prestige.

Do you think you're still like making this new album and like playing together now?

Is there still that thing where you can surprise each other like that?

Or do you, or are you pretty much like, you know what each other's going to do now?

Or do you still have that thing sometimes going, well, they just pulled that out?

No, we don't really know what each other are going to do.

And we do get surprised, but we don't let it show.

We've been surprised or impressed.

We never let that show because that would mean we'd sort of stop trying

to do, to push, I suppose.

But we always know that there's going to be hilarity.

and a lot of daftness but that you know when it comes to the music side of it that we're pretty we're pretty serious about about doing that you've got to have some stupid laughs otherwise it becomes too intense

I'd not do any not say anything funny off the back of that and just be like leave it being as tense as possible

also I mean as well as a hilarious podcast this is a food podcast and we should ask him if he's a foodie are you a food fan you you're you're enjoying some flapjacks this morning yeah does that I don't know whether that makes me a food fan I'm a sort of gobble something up and then and then I'll be powering along for the next two or three hours until something else I have a sugar crash or something like that.

I do like food, but I'm not one of these mega dagger foodies and I don't I get sickened when people photograph food.

Yeah, I'm like shove it.

I'm not interested.

Yeah, I do that.

I'm a mega dagger foodie.

Are you?

Yeah.

He's a mega digger foodie and he takes a lot of photos of his food.

Yeah, I won't do much with them, but so I'll just scroll through my phone.

Did you like, look, what I just rustled up?

Or is it something else?

It's very rarely things I've rustled up.

But

sometimes

I'll take photos of stuff, but it's very rarely aesthetically pleasing, the stuff I've rustled up.

So I would never show them to anyone else or put them online.

Well, I have taken pictures of things I've cooked, and I do like cooking, and I do like nice food, but it's not like the most important thing to me.

What happens between those

food times, the feeding times, are sort of more important to me, really.

That's probably the healthiest way of being, whereas I spend my time in between the meals thinking about the next feeding time.

Yeah.

You're eating your breakfast thinking about lunch.

Absolutely.

You're eating your lunch, thinking about

dinner.

And then you're eating your dinner thinking about, what can I have later that's going to be really naughty while I watch goggleboxes?

And then I realise I've achieved nothing.

I'm a little bit like that.

I do like dinner time, but I like it because of the social occasion.

Yeah.

It's not really social because it's at the hat, but it feels like a social occasion.

We get around a table.

We don't eat in front of the telly.

Usually the news is burbling away, but I like to be at a table for that.

Yeah.

And that's important.

I find that

an enjoyable time.

Thank God that day's over.

I know I'm just going to collapse in front of the telly in a couple of hours and that would be great.

But that's not necessarily about...

what's on the table.

It's almost not important what's on the table as long as you get that social occasion.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you know when you're in in restaurants and you the conversation I know you're meant to sit around a table but everyone talks about food the food

in in restaurants when they're eating it they're not talking about anything else hardly they're talking about the food they're eating yeah it's like oh come on well graham if you don't enjoy that aspect of eating you've come on the wrong podcast well actually this is great because yeah you're going to be talking about food that you're not currently eating

yeah we've we've we've we've really thought of all the the angles i'm hankering after every item yeah you're gonna be hankering big time yeah yeah but i'm actually lucky you know those i'm my partner is actually a really great cook oh great and loves cooking

and i don't really get a look in that often so that's that's that's that's pretty yeah that's pretty nice i'm lucky in that way i mean i do hold my you know i i i do do everything else yeah in the house.

What the other things?

What things do you do?

No, that's not true.

What do I do?

I do everything I can just to make life happier for everybody who comes into contact with me.

Does your partner have a special

dish?

A speciality that you really look forward to?

Unless it's on your menu, don't reveal it in advance.

You might kill me.

No, no, it's not.

There's some really good

halloumi business.

Hallumi business.

Yeah, there's some good halloumi business.

There's a good kofta every

as well oh nice so sort of like a lot of middle eastern turkish cooking yeah well else i'm a bit nervous because i'm not sure she'll really really appreciate me she's gonna we should listen to it this and then be annoyed you've given away her secret recipes maybe

putting you in this position now is gonna lead to more anxiety dreams don't you're gonna go to sleep and there's gonna be my arm bills being like tell me the recipes yeah tell me home what's the halloumi business what does your partner cook get Get in bullseye.

We're going to find out what the kofta, what's in the kofta?

Lamb.

Yeah.

That'll be lamb.

Or maybe it's not kofta.

It's not kofta.

It's just more of a sort of a meat.

Are they sort of an extended...

They're a sort of a meatball.

Yeah, like a ball.

They're squashed out over a stick.

It's not quite like that.

But anyway, I can't talk about food that I like that's not on my menu.

Oh, you can.

I mean,

I do like pasta and things like that.

I try to eat very healthily.

And recently I was in Denmark and that was the best things I've eaten for

a good while.

You know, white asparagus and little prawns swimming in some sort of mayonnaise type stuff and some marinated herring on some rye bread or rude bread and you know a bit of onion and things like that.

And yeah, I like that.

I like that sort of thing.

So more like, yeah, the like the scandy way of cooking quite clean.

It feels healthy, but it's also delicious and flavoursome.

Yeah, yeah, it's good.

You know, it has a bit of that dill,

has a bit of that going on.

Because the only other part of me, apart from Midlands,

England, is a bit of Norwegian, so there's probably might not have anything to do with why I like that food, but it might have a little bit to do with it.

I'm Midlands, but I don't know if I'm Norwegian.

Where Midlands are you from in Kettering in Northamptonshire, Northamptonshire.

Check the shoes out.

Yeah, Cobbers.

Vans is based in Kataroon.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The original vans.

You've got American art.

I think these are French, my shit footwear.

That's flash.

I've got new balance on.

New Balance.

Because even though I don't have kids, I've turned into a dad in the last year.

Yeah.

Have you?

Yeah, dad vibes.

The dad sort of fit hat.

Yeah, absolutely.

Got the hat.

It's an extremely distracting t-shirt you're wearing.

Yeah, sorry, I saw you looking at that.

And you've got writing on your hat that is difficult to make out, and I'm finding myself having to to stare at it.

Yes.

Well, every now and again I've noticed you glance at Ed.

Yes.

And you don't look happy each time.

I'm glad to hear it's about the t-shirt though.

Yeah, yeah, that's it.

Rather than my general vibe.

This is a wrestling t-shirt.

I'll explain everything I'm wearing.

Rear Ripley.

Rea Ripley.

Rhea Ripley.

She's a fantastic wrestler.

And it says she's my mammy on there.

because that's what Dominic Mysterio calls her.

And then the hat is a band called Herriot.

Herriot.

Herriot.

Herriot, yes.

They're a

British metal band.

Are they?

Called Herriot.

Herriot, yeah.

Okay.

I'm not going to say anything about that.

No?

Well, there's obvious things you could say, but you know, it's, I am an old all-creatures great and small fan, you see,

from way back, the original TV series.

The Christian vet.

He was a Christian vet.

He was a Christian vet.

Yeah, he was a vet, and he loved, he loved God and Jesus.

I suppose he did.

He did.

Is this a satanic vet?

Herriot.

As far as I know, the band Herriot are not named after James Herriot.

And

we're missing an R.

When you see them live, you don't get Christian vibes.

I'll say that.

Excellent.

What sort of vibes do you get?

Sort of just very extreme metal vibes.

Great, I'd like to hear that.

Yeah, they're very, very good.

Yeah.

Do you like metal?

I'd sort of appreciate.

Youngston Yonks ago, I got into sort of things like the helicopters and entombed and bands like this that were more scanned.

Mainly sort of Swedish.

It was like heavy, quite heavy rock, really, or quite trad, like greasy rock and roll sort of stuff.

Yeah.

I quite like listening to that stuff for a bit.

And I went to see Entombed a couple of times, and they were great chaps.

Yeah, they're brilliant.

They were just having a great laugh.

Yeah.

And they sounded heavy as hell then at that point.

But then I don't go and see bands like that a lot.

Do you go to many gigs?

Not really.

I like your cadence and way of talking.

We don't know where the sentence is going to end.

And it will just end out of nowhere

and then we're like oh yeah

you're keeping us on our toes

no not at all we love it

i like to see gigs uh but i'm a bit you know my hearing has been knocked about a little bit recently and so um i'm not sure whether it's that great for me to see

to see too many gigs sure i mean i'm involved i'm in a noisy situation quite more often than not though which is the problem but i do have hearing aids and things like that which i'm not wearing today because i thought this would be all right.

Yeah, we're okay.

Yeah, you don't need to.

Unless we get the Harriet on,

it should be fine.

We always start with still or sparkling water.

Still.

Yeah, straight away.

Absolutely.

Not a sparkling fan?

Sparkling, I've always thought, was for Kanas.

I think.

It is, isn't it?

Let's face it.

Why is it for Kanas?

Well, they need really something to cut through all the night before.

You know, they need some fizz to bring them back to life.

I've always thought that that was everybody I know, I mean, not everybody, I'm being unfair, but whenever people order sparkling water when they go to a restaurant, I go, I look at them, I go, oh, yeah.

And I think.

But they've been caning it.

They've been caning it.

So I like to have it, you know, as close to like source as...

I'll be up there sucking on a hillside, you know, if I could.

I mean, it's the dream.

It's the dream restaurant.

If you want to suck on a hillside at the start of this meal, we can do that for you because I'm a genie, I've got powers.

So if you want to be sucking on the Scandinavian hillside, maybe.

Or maybe even where

in Ashbourne somewhere, that'd be all right.

Is that near Kettering?

No, I don't think so.

I think that's further north than Kettering.

Where are you from in the Midlands?

I'm from Derbyspondon, Derby, originally.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I uh my sister lived in Derby for a bit, so I'd go there quite a bit.

Visit I've already spoke about everything about that on the podcast before.

The man the man called Boston who would sit on the wall.

Yes.

Humpty Dumpty.

You mean Humpty Dumpty?

Sorry, yes.

Humpty Dumpty.

You got mixed up again.

I'm not Humpty Dumpty.

You're always doing that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Do you like to suck on a hillside?

Yeah, in a house to be

like in the dark peaks.

In the dark, you're sitting behind me in the dark peaks.

Sucking on a hillside.

Suck on the dark peaks.

Do you want a straw to suck on the hillside or do you want to just ellipse to the hillside?

I just like the lips straight on.

Yeah.

Just a bit constricting the straw.

Yeah.

I'd like to get the full pressure, the full water pressure, full in the fizzog.

I think if anything made me suspect someone was a caner, it would be someone sucking off a hillside.

Yeah, yeah.

Not sucking off the hills.

Come on, he's not sucking it off.

He's sucking the water off the hillside.

Well, yeah, I guess so.

Sucking off a hillside.

Come on, man.

Sucking the hillside.

Sucking on the hillside.

Letting one's lips yield to the pressure of water

as it springs forth.

Yes.

I think that's all right.

Would you want anyone with you at this meal?

Do you want anyone to choose?

I didn't know that that was part of the deal.

I could choose people.

Would that be your dream?

Would your dream to be to dine alone though?

Because if it is, then do that.

Whenever I've

dined alone, I have.

Oh, no.

That's a glimpse into the anxiety dreams again.

It's been slightly...

It's kind of embarrassing and you feel like...

a bit of a saddle and I tend to eat very, very quickly and get out of there.

So I'm probably sitting there eating fast and and asking for whatever I need as and then hardly finishing and then asking, can I pay?

Can I get out of here?

And then leaving really quick.

So they probably feel they've dealt with some extremely neurotic person.

Or at other times though, I feel remarkably s suave when I'm when I'm on my own, but it but it really just just depends on the general

general feeling and how the neurosis is doing.

Depends on the restaurant a bit as well, maybe.

I don't like I don't like all posh.

No.

You know, tasting menus and things like that, that's all a bit odd.

I don't like being molly-coddled and treated like a toddler or a baby in a restaurant.

People point with their little finger at bits of what's on a plate and

tell you what it is.

I've never thought of that as being treated like a baby, but it makes absolute sense when you put it like that.

It's like, just put it, just, you know, just let me eat it.

Although, you know, I've never thought about the pointing with the little finger as well.

Yeah.

And actually, I think if they came along and they pointed with their normal pointing finger at my food, I think I'd be like, get the hell out of here.

I feel that wouldn't that would that would offend me more.

Yeah.

Pointing with the little finger does feel cleaner and less rude.

Less aggressive.

Whereas if they were pointing with their actual finger, I'd be like,

well, yeah.

It's accusational.

It's just the pretense of it.

The pretense, I don't mean pretense, it's pretend, pretensive.

Pretend, pretend.

What's the word?

Well, pretensive.

Haven't head of it.

It's the fakery.

It's the fakery.

You know,

this bloke is doing this and he's describing what that's called.

And this is a little bit of foam to go with it.

And that's the sort of drink that you should have with it.

And it's a bit like,

I just don't take it.

I can't take it seriously.

It's really absurd.

Yeah.

And I think people should just be how they are.

But what if that is how they are?

The waiters and stuff and the people at the restaurant?

Well,

that's fine.

But you can tell.

You can see through it.

Yeah.

You can see through it, can't you?

Yeah.

Would you ever be brave enough to say to a waiter like halfway through, I see through all this?

No, I wouldn't be.

That's the sort of thing that people I'm close to,

and possibly people in the band I play in,

would at certain times not have any qualms about just.

Are we allowed to swear on?

Yeah, yeah.

Right, okay.

Tell the people to fuck off.

Do you just put it fucking down and fuck off?

Yeah.

And that sort of thing.

Sometimes when Alex is talking about his cheeses, do you go, I see right through you.

I see right through you, Alex.

Yeah.

And I see a load of cheese in there.

It's good cheese.

Yeah, you like his cheese, then?

I've eaten it.

I've eaten it.

Yeah.

I've eaten it at Christmas.

We usually get a, I think Alex was complaining recently that he sends out Christmas parcels of cheese to everyone and gets nothing back

every year.

But the thing is, you know, he makes the cheese.

It's not like he's getting a different gift every time, right?

He gets to be in blur for an extra year.

He should never take that for granted.

Yeah, that's your present.

But his cheese is nice and he expands.

I'm waiting for the cheddar.

Yeah.

The old Blue Monday.

That's quite.

Yeah, that's great.

Yeah, yeah.

So

you think you should carry on with the cheeses?

Definitely, yeah.

I never get through my quotient of cheese, my Christmas quotient, ever.

It's just too much.

Yeah.

I mean, I probably have the amount for Christmas and New Year's that he might have in one night.

And it's still too much.

You know, he is a maniac when it comes to the cheese.

I bet he has sparkling water.

Yeah.

Cheese caning.

Cheese caning on the cheese.

Yeah.

Caning it.

So much cheese.

Have you seen him just like devour a load of cheese in front of you?

And can you not believe you?

I sort of can because I'm sort of used to it now.

But if it was the first time, I would be quite shocked, possibly.

Yeah.

No, not really.

I I mean, I mustn't, you know, Alice is a lovely man.

I love Alex.

But I did see him once eat a massive amount of that blue Monday.

Yeah.

Well, it was a Christmas amount, let's say,

on a bit of cracker, which you're allowed to have a bit more

than your auntie or something.

But he went slap and then squirted a load of honey on it as well.

And then you've got to try it like this.

I was like, yeah, go on then.

Yeah.

Buffing up blind me.

I couldn't do that enough again for another year.

Not for another year.

Jesus, though, that was much.

Yeah, it was much.

Poplubs or bread.

Poplubs or bread, Graham Thompson.

Poplums or bread.

Poppadoms or bread?

Yeah.

Well, I'll have to have bread.

Is this mine?

Yeah.

Water.

Still.

Yeah, there's still water there.

There you are.

Not exactly coming out of the side of a hill, but

pop a doms.

Well, big crisps.

Yeah, the big crisps.

You know what a pop-a-dom is.

If I was at a...

I see three of you.

If I was going.

Pop-adom, what is such?

I would go for a poppadome, of course, if I was in a certain type of restaurant.

But on this occasion, I'd have to go with a little bit of bread, but not much because

I've got to look ahead and there might not be much need for bread.

And bread might actually come with the starter.

You never know.

But yeah, I mean, I would like to have bread.

I'm full on butter.

Usually a pinch of some decent salt upon the butter as well.

Nice.

Yeah.

It used to be one of my favourite pastimes on aeroplanes was to just have as much wine as I could possibly fit onto my sort of tray that came down from the seat in front and

just have loads of bread and butter and salt.

And that was it?

You would like the rest of the meal?

Yeah, it'd be like my little, it'd be like a sort of a little Abigail's party all to myself.

That's quite a Dickensian in a way, like just wine and bread and butter.

So that's why the dream happened.

Singing umpapa at all the time, you know, because every throne off the flight, yeah.

So would you like that for your dream meal?

Would would you like um you're on the hillside for the water but you want to be on the plane for the bread course with the tray down and you've got all your bread and butter and salt yeah i think that would be quite nice but not the wine now it'd have to be the um remnants of the still water maybe the planes has literally flown over the hill and you've been able to a cod piece of water yeah

because i i'm in medieval dress

on the side of a hill yeah um so maybe a bit of cod piece water and But it'd have to be some crusty French stuff, the bread.

It's not going to be anything not nice.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it can't be plain bread, like bread you would have on a plane, right?

Because quite often that's pretty bad bread.

We'd have to depends on the

best, I guess.

Yeah.

What's the best bread you've had on the plane?

Sometimes they bring round a basket and there's multiple types.

And you can have, you know, seedy kind of ones or cappaccio, whatever it's called, or or like just white French type stuff.

And I probably go for the white.

This is business.

We're talking business upwards, though, right?

Yeah.

Which I don't travel always in business.

Yeah.

And I have done recently, but that was an up, that was just a, I was bumped up.

Oh, nice.

For no reason.

It's always nice.

What a feeling.

But were you looking around?

Because I'd imagine a lot of the people in business class, they're not your type of people.

I imagine you'd look at them and go see right through all these.

I see right through all teachers, motherfuckers.

They're all mongering of some sorts.

There's something they're mongering to have got there.

Do you mean like fishmongers?

Mongerers.

Yeah, fishmongerers, war mongerers, fear mongerers, money mongerers.

Yeah.

So whenever I'm getting on the plane and I'm going to economy, I look at the people going to business.

I'm like, every single one of those people is a fishmonger.

Yeah.

I imagine fishmongers are pretty gutted that they're lumped in with all the other mongerers.

All the other mongerers are pretty bad.

They're warmering and fear mongering.

And then they're like, we just like fish.

Why are we?

There's not meat mongerers.

They're butchers.

Butchers.

They're just butchers.

It's iron mongers, I guess.

Fishmongers.

Iron mongers going back to the kensian times but i suppose i look like um i probably like to think i don't but i think people go musician yeah you know in a split second

immediately yeah i try not to look like one yeah but it's bloody obvious i think to people what sort of things do you do to try and not look like a musician would you say i try not to air drum

on my tray that goes into the front i try to wear a nice pair of shoes from northampton yes oh yeah yeah um maybe some jeans that aren't ripped and

looking like they've been dragged through Ross Kill the Festival, which is where we were last weekend in Denmark.

I don't know, but

some pop stars do dress rather, is it sartorially these days, don't they?

And still look like musicians, actually.

There's the hair.

Yeah, I haven't really got a musician's haircut.

I know what you mean, though.

Like

you, you, Alex, and Damon, I go.

They're musicians.

Dave, got too much.

drummer.

Just look at.

Joey,

you wouldn't look at Dave and go, definitely a musician.

He's a wonderful musician.

Because he's not only that,

he isn't only that.

He's a radio host?

Because you don't go Alex Cheese.

You stop at musician.

Alex and or Cheese.

Yeah.

Well, Dave has done all sorts.

He's been a lawmongerer.

He's been a lawyer, pilot.

You know, he does all sorts of what I would call kind of grown-up stuff.

He's done that for years, you know, since I've known him, he's been interested.

He's the only one who reads the you know, the contracts and things like that.

So, he's interested in law and grown-up stuff, you know.

So, he's a pilot as well.

Yeah, for a while, Alex and Dave both were flying aeroplanes about.

Who do you want to be flying the plane that you're eating the bread on?

Thank you for asking the question I was also thinking of.

Dave could fly.

So, not Alex.

You would like Dave over Alex to be flying the plane.

Yes.

If we're talking, yes, definitely these days.

Yeah.

Because he beats the contracts.

He beats the contracts.

So definitely,

based on my knowledge of him, which is only the things that you've said, I would choose Dave over Alex to be flying the plane.

Yeah.

Because he's a responsible adult.

Yeah, because he'd be like, you know, telling you, well, look at the instruments, Graham.

Here we have

Alex would just be like, this is great.

And it works.

Alex will get honey on it.

Perfectly safe, I imagine.

But, you know,

I've been up in a...

plane with Alex flying.

Yeah.

It's great up there because you can do what you like.

Really?

There's There's no laws?

There's no laws in that airplane.

It's a lawless, like, yeah, you know, saloon.

You can smoke whatever you want, drink whatever you like.

Yeah.

Yeah.

When Alex is flying the plane, yeah, when Alex is flying, undo your seat belt,

share a seat, you know, do whatever.

Did you do any of those things?

All sorts of stuff.

I can't even go into it.

All sorts of things.

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Let's get into your menu proper now.

Your dream starter.

I think it's a bit of a prawn cocktail.

I love a prawn.

You've got to love a prawn.

A prawn cocktail?

Yeah.

Has this always been a favourite of yours?

I think it has.

And I started to think, well, why can't I just start making these at home?

Why do I have to go to Tretoria Luca on Parkway to get me prawn cocktail or me prawns on avocado?

And I started doing it at home and um a thousand dollar dressing on some prawns on a bit of avocado or some lettuce and a bit of lemon and you're off in you nice yeah and would you rate your own do you do a good one you do a good one it just tastes the same as the other ones yeah i haven't got a remarkably advanced palette or anything but it you know it it did the job yeah you know i'm not gonna sit there and photograph it and and you know wiggle me tongue about and tell you where where i'm tasting things i'm not that sort of eater yeah yeah but but what i did when in in america a few times was to go health a lever on an electrically assisted bike from santa monica through venice and all the way and all the way and all the way along and go like 20 kilometers up up there yeah then there's this old seafood shack and the americans do a well they call it a shrimp cocktail i i call shrimp it's a very small prawn but i don't i don't they call everything shrimp they don't use the word prawn over there Yeah, because

I imagine it being tiny, the tiny little guys are the shrimp, right?

Yeah, a little shrimpy thing.

Yeah, the little shrimpy things, yeah, exactly.

Whereas a prawn is one of them big, succulent, fat, bloated beasts that

Americans just call a shrimp.

Of course.

Are you using those at home?

Are you going to like, well, shout out again to the fishmonger?

Are you going to get the big, the big boys from the fishmonger when you do it at home?

I haven't done it at home for a long time because I might push for it.

Because

as you know, my partner, Rose, she does a lot of cooking.

But have got um

we have got prawns from the old um they're expensive aren't they the big ones pretty pricey but because the kitchen prawns tiger prawns yeah of course they're expensive because the kitchen's not your domain do you have to like really quickly like sneak in there when your partner's and try and make a prawn cocktail she's get out of here stop making porn cocktail no it's not like that the the the the the the the kitchen is my domain yeah but it's just that i'm always i'm tidying it up and and and that takes a longer time so i'm i'm i'm in the kitchen a lot but mainly tidying mainly tidying making cups of tea and things like that do you put music on when you're tidying or do you listen never you don't never

you don't i don't listen to music never no

gets in it gets in the way yeah yeah no we should we should listen to more music you know um i do like what you know spotify and things just throws up every now and then.

They say, oh, you might like this.

Are they right?

You might like doing that.

They're quite often right.

It doesn't creep you out that they were right.

No, it doesn't.

No, no, not really.

I'm only one thumb movement from destroying my iPhone, aren't we all?

You know, it's like we can just eliminate everything and delete stuff, but we never do, I suppose.

But

where were we with the real subject?

We were just talking prawn cocktails.

Yeah, I love a prawn.

Because in America, they do.

Sorry.

Yeah, well, I want to know about this American place that you went to.

Well,

you go to it, and it's like this old shack.

shack it must be quite famous around there you've gone past where the airport is and and and where jackie brown was filmed and all that you go past that you go up further further further and that and there it is and you you can choose your things you can there's they're all live there and you can choose lobsters and all the rest of it and i i we used to go and um have a lobster and have shrimp cocktail but it was the sauce really that is different over there it's a sort of a it's a sort of shrimp cocktail sauce but then you put a blob of horseradish in there.

And that was really, really good.

So would you like that prawn cocktail for your dream meal?

The shrimp cocktail from

the shack?

Yeah, possibly that would be

a good thing.

But still with a bit of greenery, you know, on a bed of lettuce.

Yeah, you've got to have a bed of lettuce.

Refreshing.

I love this horseradish thing.

I only had it recently when I went to the States, the shrimp cocktail, because you expect that the creamy dressing, right?

Yeah.

And then it's the, it's almost tomato with loads of horseradish in it a proper fiery gets up your nose yeah it's an entenserie of flavor that's exactly what i said weirdly

it's an entenserie of flavor yeah before we move on what's your favorite part of cleaning the kitchen do you have a a part when you're doing the cleanup of the kitchen is there a particular thing that is really satisfying that you like to tidy up and get right well the thing is i um my my my dealing with kitchen and and things like that is i don't know i'm going to do it you know it it again comes from an anxiety where I feel a little bit anxious.

Maybe I've been having an awkward conversation and before I know it, I'm sweeping the kitchen floor or I'm in the middle of the washing up or I'm scrubbing the sink.

You know, I'm hosing down those things that keep the big bits from going down the sink that you can remove.

You know, I'm hosing that out a little bit.

Or I'm sweeping the patio down, removing bird shit and all the rest of it.

You know, I'm doing all of this stuff because I found myself in a, in a, in an awkward situation or

my anxiety has

risen somewhat.

And I'm sure old girlfriends of mine have absolutely, when the place is estate, started to have a little

argument with me and just point me in the right direction.

And they're, oh, it's all spick and span 10 minutes later.

And

I'm really fast.

I don't waste time, you know, emptying dishwashers, refilling dishwashers, wiping all the things down, reoiling the surface of the wooden surfaces, you know, everything.

You know, know and i'm a bit i'm i'm a bit too much it's it's a bit like it's it's slightly too obsessive i'm a bit a little bit too obsessive but if you go from santa monica through venice and then um el sagondo i think what's my wallet in el sagondo yeah

and then the area where the airport is further down la rondo

you see it's it's gone rodondo beach it might be rodondo it's a bit further than rodondo and they have one of those cheesecake factories nearby that you have to avoid why do you have to avoid them?

Because it's just full of cakes.

It's like a huge place and it's not just cheesecake.

No, it's not.

It's not.

I went to a cheesecake factory in San Francisco really wanting to try the cheesecake but I made the mistake of ordering the meatloaf first to earn my dessert and the meatloaf was humongous and I didn't really enjoy the cheesecake after that because I was too full.

But the meatloaf was all right.

I can't even remember it.

It's good stuff I think.

Yeah, it was pretty good.

It's pretty good.

I've had a lot of people say to me that they I can't remember who it was recently, but there's an American person who said the biggest mistake people make at Cheesecake Factory is getting the cheesecake because it's the worst thing on the menu.

Did you think you have to avoid it because it's just full of cakes?

Cakes.

Is it that you're not a fan of cake or you're too much of a fan of cake or just the idea of it being full of cakes you find nerve-wracking?

No, the idea of it being full of cakes is

amazing to me.

It's like a sort of a heaven.

No, I like sweet things and um i i i can destroy you could rip your way through cheesecake factory i could just yeah i could destroy you know any amount of sweet things chocolate especially i like the idea of you like just whipping through cheesecake factory like taz just spinning around

i could do i could i could do i mean i'd be i'd be sick but um you know the intents there i guess in the kitchen you have like the opposite of taz because you're spinning around the kitchen but then it's all tidy at the end

Your dream main course, Graham.

Now,

why then when you had a puff on your vape, did you cover it with your hands so I couldn't see it?

You did it.

It wouldn't say you couldn't see it.

I know that you think it's all about you.

I hate it when people say that.

I remember the first time I got that, I was crushed.

It's not all about you, Graham.

What?

No, there's a camera up there, I'm noticing.

Oh, you're shielded it from the camera.

Who said that to you?

Who said it's oh, I can't remember.

It's pretty funny that you can't remember who said it.

You're too busy remembering what you were saying.

Yeah, yeah,

they're the sort of people that leave the most harm knocking about in one's head, aren't they?

Yeah, especially when they're in the middle of the day.

I once had a teacher when I was living, when I'd moved to Colchester,

I'd written an account of my weekend in which I'd gone gone up to Sponden to see my granddad again

and all of that.

And I'd written that he lived in Malt Ave, you know, I'd shortened it.

And she singled my little account out as being the most absurd piece of work.

I'm about seven years old.

But everything hits you when you're seven.

Everything happened.

All the worst stuff happened to me when I was seven.

Dog bites, broken teeth,

a beginning to fainting episodes that I used to have yeah and this was my first one i i think i didn't quite realize what was going on and and she changed sponden to london right and she's she she read it out in the most piss-taking way i was absolutely didn't know what why i'd been singled out yeah to be made to look such a fool

and um she thought you'd spelled london wrong yeah so she she's just

stupid but i couldn't she's a stupid she was she was showing her own ignorance in front of everybody because she hadn't heard of sponden which is very famous you know everybody yeah

but to just try and spell London with an SP at the beginning

yeah I just thought he's

actually read it out in a piss taking way including av did she you know malt av made an example of me how old was she do you reckon I know she looked like Hamble do you remember Hamble one of the dolls that was from play school years ago no look her up she looked a bit like that but sort of a 35 year old woman Let's call her that sort of age.

Dead now, you reckon?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

She probably died before I was in secondary school.

Yeah, you're right.

Let's hope.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it wouldn't be my fault.

It wasn't your fault.

Not inflaming you.

No, no.

She's going through life.

Yeah.

Being that sort of bitter and hideous and cynical

towards children.

Yeah.

And then she deserves everything she can.

It's probably.

Yeah, she deserves that.

She might be hanging on.

No, no, she's in the ground.

In the ground.

She's in the ground.

But you won't be sucking on that part of the ground, will you?

No, no.

No.

Trying to have a nice glass of water and you realise it's your teacher's grave.

Your dead teacher's in there.

Sucking up remnants.

Yeah, yeah.

You wouldn't want any of that.

I hope she's buried in Spondon.

No, this would have been in

Essex.

This would have been in Colchester.

Oh, yeah.

I hope somehow she's ended up.

I hope that...

She's ended up in the Oshhorn Hills.

She was supposed to be buried in London and someone got mixed up and accidentally buried her in Sponden.

Excellent.

Yeah.

By mistake.

That would be excellent.

No, she's there on an ave as well.

Yeah.

I hope she's on an ave.

She's been there adding to the pong.

Yeah.

There is a thing called the Sponden Pong.

Is there?

Yes, because of the Selenese factory there, which used to make this particularly strange, rubbery kind of smell in the air.

Right.

So you'd always know when you were in Sponden because you look that up.

Because you'd get this.

You'd get the Sponden Pong.

Yeah.

That'd be be a good name for a band or a song or an album.

The Sponden Pong.

The Sponden Pong.

Ketrin, where I'm from.

Next to Burton Lattimer, which is where the Wheatabix factory is.

So often there's areas of Ketrin that really smell like Wheatabix.

The Kettering Stench.

The Ketrin stench, as it's known.

Although there was a really bad, and I've mentioned it on the podcast before, but there was a really bad weekend

when I was in my late teens, early 20s, I can't remember when, when Ketrin just smelt like hot sick.

Really?

Yeah.

Just smelled like hot sick.

Hot.

Yeah, it smelled like hot hot sick.

It very specifically smelled like hot sick down near the train station.

I don't know.

Everyone was like, Don't go down near the train station, it smells like hot sick.

God, it was bad stuff.

We would kill for despondent pong at that point.

Your dream main course is what I've realized we haven't.

Sorry.

We said dream main course, then we went off on this tangent.

But what is your despondent main course?

I'm going to say Nazi Goreng.

This is a difficult one because there's so many things I liked.

And I was just going to say the one thing that eventually ended up as my side dish because that's that's that's that's kind of pretty i'm happy with that most most points during the day or year or whenever but nazi goreng is is something that i had that i knew my dad loved from when he was a young man in malaya i think it was malaya and he loved nazi goreng which is basically fried rice i think it means and um he said that this very very very old wizened short woman used to make this for him pretty much every night yeah when he was a young I mean he may have been a teenager at the time in the army out there right but used to like whip this together and he used to just absolutely love it yeah and that's really gone on to me I remember having it in Jakarta in 2012 or something like that

and it's it's just great stuff it's like it's sort of I think it's sort of a fried rice that you can just put whatever you like in.

But mainly, when I've had it, it's got a little bit, and I've tried to make it as well it doesn't it doesn't taste quite as good as when I've had it but the best one I ever had was in Jakarta it had sort of like you know the chicken on sticks thing yeah like saturday like satay yeah

so you get rice and you may may have a couple of satays and a big dollop of peanut sauce and you'd have a fried egg on the top of the whole lot nice and um it's excellent stuff and i'm really into sort of ricey food i like i like a good old fried rice it used to be a huge treat when I was a kid to go to the Chinese restaurant and have fried rice and things like that.

I thought it was the best stuff ever.

What was your go-to type of fried rice at the Chinese restaurant when you were a kid?

Well,

for ages it was chopped suey, which is no rice at all.

But when I discovered the fried rice,

I don't know, just chicken fried rice.

I was quite happy with that.

Because then, you know, it was the 70s and the 80s.

I would have had, you know, real proper like English spaghetti bolognese.

And I wouldn't have had Chinese fruit.

I wouldn't have had any other shape of pastra apart from spaghetti.

And it would, it would hardly be a sort of anything approaching an Italian sauce.

It would be more like a sort of a stew, English stew on top of spaghetti, you know, carrots and everything.

And it became a little bit of a joke that there's these big chunks of carrot.

Like this is a stew, this is an English stew, but with on spaghetti.

So I remember my mum tried to make Chinese food on a Monday with what was left over from Sunday.

You know, sticky pork and things like this.

And we were like, oh, this, I love this.

I love this sort of of thing You see I liked exotic stuff.

Yeah, yeah, anyway, that's that and I and I just love that stuff.

I love it when you eat the nazi goreng do you think about your dad every time?

Is it impossible for you to eat it without thinking about my dad used to eat this and like you think about the wizened old woman every time?

Yeah, I do a bit whenever I see it on a menu, which isn't often I've had nazi goreng with him, but it's it's the thing is it's all in a very nostalgic time for him.

So it's never ever going to approach what this sort of 200-year-old woman

made for him.

It's never going to be quite the same.

But the good thing is, because this is the dream restaurant, we can help out with that, right?

Yeah.

So

would you like the 200?

Would you like the 200-year-old woman to cook you this in the dream restaurant?

I would.

Yes.

And I'd like her to be extremely rude as well.

Yeah.

Do you like it when people are rude to you?

Chuck it at you.

Yeah.

In restaurants.

I like rudeness and anger and insult.

I think she's.

She's not pointing with her little finger.

I'll put it that way.

No.

But she's, I bet she was great.

Yeah.

Bet she's made, made that a billion times.

Yeah.

And

easy.

And I imagine it in a mess tin.

Although it probably wasn't in a mess tin.

You know, I get this information out of my dad every now and then what it was like when he was out there.

And what were your shorts like?

Were they really massive, high-waisters?

You know?

And asking all the right questions.

What were the shorts like?

What was the Nasi Goreng like?

Yeah.

And you all them ammo, you're wearing ammo boots.

And where would you go?

I'd go go a few tents up, and this woman would just chuck nasi goreng at you.

Excellent.

Is it spicy, the nasi garing?

It can, yeah, it can be.

Do you like a bit of spice?

Absolutely.

You liked the horseradish in the...

Yeah.

I loved the horseradish when I was a kid, and I try to force that on my own children.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, they have it.

They go on, have it just a little bit.

Do they?

And they don't like spicy.

But

they always like it.

Right.

So, yeah, once they give it a go.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just have a little tiny bit.

You're just building up their tolerance.

Yeah.

Bit by bit.

You don't have to have this thing on its own.

You put it with stuff,

you know, to enhance.

People get so freaked out about spicy stuff.

I mean, I don't go too spicy these days.

You know, I'm not like Sava Vindalovia.

I'm not like that.

I just don't see the point.

You were like a little bit, just enough is good, innit?

Yeah.

But no, I'm not like spice mania, like, like it's a machismo.

I'm not like that kind of masculine.

Did you like the spice Spice Girls?

Not really.

You went into them?

I guess it was like, it was that time where like, you know,

you just had, I mean, you were probably all punched out from Blur versus Oasis.

And then Spice Girls came around.

You're like, I can't.

But

you're like, I can't put up with this.

I can't engage with this.

I can't engage with this shit.

Well, it's a complicated thing that.

Yeah.

They were fine.

I really liked Sporty.

I liked her song with Brian Adams.

Yeah, good song.

Even Food Don't Taste That Good and all that.

I thought that was a great little song.

We should get them both on the podcast.

Yeah, we should.

Sporty and Bry at the same time.

Yeah.

And ask them, does food taste that good anymore?

It was a fun ride.

It was a sort of a fun sort of sort of girl powery thing when this sort of thing had been there

in underground punk rock music for a bit, the mid, you know, early to mid-90s.

So I thought it was a bit cheapened and a bit shallow and all that, but I was probably a bit snobby about it.

It was probably okay.

It was just a little bit...

It was kind of a bit glitchy and pink and unicorn-y for me when I thought there was some some other you know more more heavier worthy stuff being said and and and being put forward by by groups and women at the time.

So, you know, the spice girls was a comp was a complicated thing at the time

because the 90s it was very it was very different in the 90s and and I don't know whether it's got much better.

It must have, God knows, I hope so.

I mean, look, I hate to ask about blood vs.

I just mentioned it, but here's the here's the only i might not ever get to interview anyone from either band ever again so would you say it's fair to say that you absolutely pulverized them

but oasis no come on what come on we obviously did not a competition

you absolutely destroyed where are they now

you absolutely made a fine paste of them

They don't even talk about it.

At the time, I thought it was record sales as far as the 90s.

People go on about, yeah, they won this battle.

they didn't win the war.

Uh, the war is still on.

Oh, yeah, it is, isn't it?

Wasn't it?

It seems to be, yeah, but I would say if the war is still on, Blerve is still like on the main battlefield, and Oasis

in the first aid tent.

Yeah, two separate first aids, two separate first aid tents.

Chaps,

where's everybody?

We've come here for a good fight, yeah, and there's no one here, yeah.

No, but the thing is, though, if if Oasis were to get together, yeah, yeah, then

they would lay waste to us.

Do you think?

Probably.

But that's a good thing.

Yeah.

And I think they should.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, it'll be a laugh.

That's a long time ago now, all that stuff.

And we were fighting for our careers.

We were, you know, it was a matter of life and death

for young people to be getting a career together.

Of course, there was going to be competitiveness.

And, you know, there was a few things that were said that there was no need for that.

But, you know, what are you going to do?

the people were trying to get themselves out of their situation

and rock and roll was was one way of doing it so you're gonna be serious about it you're gonna be uh you know sort of you know defend it i chose blur in the battle i went and bought country house did you it's a very vivid memory kevin hmv did he bought it and the lady behind the counter said to me good choice and then she started singing it while she got it from the cuz you had to go i'd give her the slip empty slip case and she had to go and find the cassette in the the little little library behind it.

And she was just singing the song as she was going to get it.

I really remember it really vividly because I felt like it was like the same way I felt when I went to vote for the first time.

It is a bit like

this is important.

I'm making a decision and I'm going and I've decided I'm going to get Country House.

And she told me, well done.

You made the right choice.

And then she sang it as she handed it to me.

That's like fake.

And was this in Kettering?

It says Kettering HMV.

Right.

Well, that's good.

I'm glad we got.

I'm glad we got, you know, one, one that, I suppose.

But I didn't think either song was.

They were both a bit daft.

Yeah, sure, they were daft, but that's what you want, I guess, for

like a little

battle between the songs.

You want some fun, fun songs.

Yeah.

But then the universal was like, that was the next single.

Yeah.

And that was

a big part of my life.

That was a big part.

So

I did the Kettering Gang Show.

Do you know what that is?

A gang show.

You're in the Cub Scouts.

Yeah.

Why would Graham know what the Kettering Gang Show is?

Well, he knew more than...

But specifically the Kettering Gang Show.

Well, Kiki, you guess what the Ketron gang show would be?

Yeah, I know what a gang show is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So you think it's...

So it's just one that's in Kettering, as opposed to mine, which was

a Stanway gang show.

Yeah, yeah.

The Stanway Gang Show.

You're familiar with the Stanway Gang Show because

there was a Stanway gang show versus Kettering Gang Show, actually.

We won the battle, but they won the war.

It was big.

It was the Kettering Gang Show, and it was like my first time performing on stage, and it really meant a lot to me.

I really, really wanted to do it.

And my parents knew that I've, I'd really, I'd wanted to do it forever.

I was probably 10 years old or whatever.

And they knew that I really wanted to be on stage and perform.

It's my first chance actually getting to do it.

And when I got home from the first performance of it, on my pillow was they bought me the Universal by Blur on cassette.

Wow.

And a little note that said, like, well done.

And all this.

It was very important to me.

So

every time I hear that song, I think.

I think about that.

Nice story.

First time being on stage.

Weren't expecting that, were you?

No.

Normally your your stories end with you being embarrassed in some way.

Oh yeah, yeah.

At some point I'll probably embarrass myself.

I've saw the tape and then I piss my pants.

What did you do at the gang show?

I was uh

pissed your pants.

Were you told to wear um swimming trunks when you performed in your gang show just in case you got stage frightened?

I was.

I was.

What?

What?

In the Cubs.

I was slightly younger than 10, maybe eight or nine.

But they said, wear swimming trunks just in case you get stage frightened and we

lose control of you.

Do you still do that to this day?

Wet Webbly Arena?

Yeah, got your trunks on, got the trunks on.

You might see the drawstring peeping out at some point.

That just seems like a way to guarantee a kid's gonna piss themselves.

It's a bit like, What?

You said that's frightening.

What I didn't know that could happen.

No, get your trunks on, Graham.

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Your dream side dish.

Yeah, chip butty.

Chip butty.

Nice.

So this is the thing that is kind of your.

Is this like top of your menu, really?

The thing that you can have all the time that you love?

Yeah, I mean, this is this is it, really, for me.

This is luxury.

Yeah.

Proper big, thick chips in there, right?

So like chip shop chips.

Fish and chip shop chips.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Not a doorstep, bread-wise, you know.

And if you are in a local local fish and chip shop and you're having a sit-down, a posh meal in your fish and chip shop, you've got to ask them not to cut it diagonally.

You know, I always thought that that was mega-posh when bread was cut into triangles instead of just into two oblongs.

Yeah.

And that doesn't work at all with the chip button.

It's just like...

They kind of weirdly get less chips in there, even though it's the same size sandwich.

Well, that's a question for Brian Cox or someone.

Well, we've had him already.

We forgot to ask him.

It gets tetchy when you ask him questions.

Let me tell you.

About how many chip sandwiches does it affect

he's got some he's got some issues that he didn't like us got some anger issues maybe you just get a slice of like that and you get your chip buttons

and everything in there butter brown sauce houses of parliament sauce uh ketchup vinegar salt loads of salt just get it all in yeah and just and just eat yeah just eat it that does sound good that sounds great doesn't it i mean

was there a particular fish and chip shop that you go to and get this from that was like the best chip butty that is your favorite?

Well Cannons from Crouch Hill that's gone now Crouch End that's that's gone sadly there's Toff's in Muswell Hill but I used my best friend when I was six in Spondon his mum and dad ran sorry do you mean London yes

okay sorry you said London wrong they um they ran the chippy in Spondon my friend Cassie So I'd go there quite often after school.

And we used to drink this fizzy drink that used to have a Tom and Cherry cartoon on it and i can't for the life of me remember and we used to eat tuda crisps i don't know what they're both gone i think these these things yeah tom and jerry drink yeah what flavor was the tom and jerry drink i don't know pink pink flavor you know yeah sort of pink bubble gummy strawberryish yeah chemically kind of stuff did you drink it because you liked tom and jerry

pong

yeah no it was just on there yeah yeah it just happened to be on there it was sort of encouraging you to read actually you know you read the tin.

I was on the little comic strip.

Yeah.

Do you think that was the thought behind it?

The Department for Education were like, put Tom and Jerry on the pink drink and then that'll encourage kids' literacy.

I don't know, maybe.

Put on the spot now.

Do you think, like, Tom and Jerry.

We asked the hard questions, Graham.

What can I say?

Tom and Jerry are so like just permanently in the zeitgeist that

so proud of yourself using the word zeitgeist there.

You looked up, you looked up and smiled.

Yeah.

You got your drunks on.

Yeah, yeah put your drunks on a marketplace

um but you put them on anything and most people wouldn't question it yeah oh yeah tom and jerry are there yeah even though it's mad that they put tom and jerry on a drink it's the violence that i liked you liked how violent they were yeah yeah just hitting each other with floorboards and you know yeah slamming hands in pianos didn't matter yeah

it's great it really didn't matter because really if it was a more realistic you know

dead after one episode well the mouse is dead straight away right the mouse is dead straight away good luck if it ever gets the cat back probably won't and then there was the i know we're getting off piste a bit here but there was the bulldog what was that one called was it a bulldog oh yeah sometimes get involved yeah yeah i don't know what it was called but it was nasty piece of work weren't it what dog would you rather fight the tom and jerry dog or bullseye well the the tom and jerry dog would be the worst one yeah because they sort of reconstitute themselves cartoon characters they want to be hit by anvils or split by yeah

by axes and stuff and then they sort of somehow make themselves whole again yeah so that would be good i actually quite like those are they english bull terriers that's what that make may make fire doggies what is it that make

your dream drink now obviously everyone's expecting to pick a cup of tea everyone I've told that we're doing this episode, everyone's like, ask him what the cup of tea was like in the star-shaped that he had in the back of the car.

Oh, that was a cup of tea, yeah, with lots of sugar.

Everyone wants to know what that tea tasted like.

Absolutely.

Everyone I speak to about doing this interview, ask what the star-shaped cup of tea was like in the back of the car.

They all want to know that.

That was absolutely.

When you say real one, do you mean Josh Whitacombe?

Josh Whitaker and Nishkuma both told me.

Both told me that.

Josh wants to know.

I'll keep his stump.

Yeah, because that's just weird.

Josh asked me about it.

He said, ask me about that.

Then sent me the video to clarify.

It's this clip.

It was true, you know, though.

I hadn't had a bath.

I was like, God, we've got to get to this festival site.

We're playing at like 11am.

It's absolutely ridiculous.

So I've dragged myself out of bed, you know, put me old boating blazer on, and I'm all ready to go.

And then Alex swans in like 20 minutes later after having a bath and everything like that.

And then suddenly we're in a hurry again.

So I'm taking my cup of tea with me.

And it is.

It's just bouncing around all over.

But every time I go for it, it bounces up.

But that would have had a lot of sugar in.

Right.

How many sugars were you having?

Because I would have had a hangover.

I don't know every available sugar.

I don't know, four or five chachets, chashets,

chachets.

Four or five of those.

Yeah.

Yeah, you'll never beat Bob Mortimer.

How many did Bob Mortimer have?

Something like that.

17.

17, because 18 is too sweet, you said.

Yeah.

But I had to stop drinking tea because I stopped drinking tea for a good while and went on to just black coffee because I thought this is insane because I had a tea mug that was it was like a pint sized and there's no point in having a cup of tea that that means you've got to up the sugar amount obviously

there's a ratio too so I was almost having a pound of sugar you know every three or four days in my tea and I just had to say no this is It's getting too much.

But then you switched to black coffee.

But then were you not just having it in the same mug you had a different mug and that solved everything well yeah black coffee with no sugar nothing just in a different so that that didn't throw up this problem of ratio tea to sugar ratio and that was in america where you can't get a decent cup of tea anyway so i was just like i'll blow it and that that just that black coffee and just the anxiety and and the pure outrage of everyday living in america i sort of doing a lot of cleaning turned into a rake yeah yeah and the cycling to get the old shrimps not even that could um put weight on me.

So that's not your dream drink.

You're not going with a cup of tea?

No, my dream drink would probably be a 1962 Amaroni.

But the thing is, I don't drink, so

it's difficult to know.

I would love a nice glass of red wine.

I'm not saying now, but in a in a dream scenario, that that for me is a an extremely nice thing to have with one's meal.

But now it's like, crikey, I don't, I don't, I don't know.

I have a zero percent beer

as a as a sort of um let's call it a sort of a sort of a you know like a sort of cocktail hour at six uh-huh so is that what you'd have for this dream meal is a beer or you would have an erdinger yeah or something like that that has zero which is actually a sports drink if you if you read if you read it it's reduced calorie and it's isotonic.

So it's actually a sports drink, the Erdinger 0%.

And it's one of the best tasting ones.

Would you do some sport after drinking it?

An Erdinger?

Easily.

Easily.

Yeah, easily.

There's a lot of, like, no alcohol beers now.

There's so many good.

There's tons.

Yeah.

But I like that this is the sports angle as well.

So you could almost cycle to get the prawns and then neck a quick Erdinger.

What I like about it is that you could be cycling along just drinking from that.

Everyone thinks, what a reckless young man.

But, you know, no.

It's a sports drink, actually.

So

I can tell you this now, but like on the podcast, we always have a a secret ingredient that we don't tell the guests.

And if they choose it on their menu, we kick them out of the restaurant.

And it came very close just then.

You settled on the Erdinger 0%, but for your episode, we've chosen, sometimes it's related to the guest, and we chose Beaujolais.

And when you said the red wine, I was like, we're going to have to ask what type.

And if it's Beaujolais,

with a heavy heart, we're going to have to go.

Did you literally kick us out?

I said Amaroni.

Yeah, yeah, you said Amaroni.

We would have been all right.

Yeah, we would have.

It's a nonsense.

You see, that's what the character would have drank.

Yeah, not anyone.

Not any decent human being.

Do you reckon you could hang out with the charmless man?

Would you enjoy it?

Oh, I've done it many times.

Sure, sure, we all have.

Yeah.

He knows his what from his claret from his Beaujolais, doesn't he?

Yeah, he does.

I'm sure they're talking about wine.

Nasty business.

Really?

Things are never as they seem.

Oh, is that is that a filthier lyric than we think it is?

Yeah, absolutely.

I think so.

I like to think so.

Probably, isn't it?

What's Goffman TV really about?

Oh, that is really that boring, yeah.

Yeah, it is about Goff in TV.

It's not about bums and decks or something.

Might be.

No,

I don't know what that's about.

It was lyrics collected from my then diary, really, I think.

Yeah.

Dame was like, oh, I don't know about this.

I can't be bothered.

If you want to write some, if you want to sing it, go and write some lyrics.

And I went home and wrote those.

I was just going over some old sort of diaries and bits and bobs and notes and that's how it came out

found nothing unusual yeah

no it's about coffee you know it's about it's about sort of being sober and wanting to be with with somebody I suppose and feeling a little bit alienated and rootless and all of the rest of it and wanting to fall in love with with someone and be married and to belong with somebody and that's that really is the the romance sad romantic truth.

And that, you know, when you stop drinking, your social life gets extremely boring very quickly or becomes non-existent.

And so, you know, you tend to watch the news and drink tea and that's it.

I mean, had you, when you wrote Coffee and TV, made the shift from the big mug of tea to the black coffee?

Was it that point in your life?

Because otherwise, if you hadn't, it would have been called Big Mug of Tea and TV.

Big mug of tea.

And most of the lyrics would be like, I think there's too much sugar in this tea.

I'm worried about it.

I can't.

Well, actually, no, because what I did do, I did pretty much trade pints of lager to pints of latte at that point.

And that is what happened.

I used to go to Henry J.

Beans or whatever it used to be in Camden.

And I'd go in there and they'd make massive lattes.

And I would sit there as if it was a pub.

Yeah.

and drink eight of those.

You know, that's why I'd be jangling and stuff like that.

And I've written a few songs about that situation one of them is called latte which which was a solo song of mine so that that you can't go on doing that you can't go out and drink eight pints of coffee every morning so you know it's a funny thing to sort of change how you how you live and your habits but you sort of do have to you replacing one thing with the other isn't much fun So you're not going for coffee though, you're going for the earning a 0% and then doing some sport.

You want it while you're cycling to get the shrimp cocktail.

Yeah, yeah.

That's an excellent look.

You can have it in the little bottle holder in your bike.

Yeah.

One of my

other dreams, general life dreams, is to be sort of 70 or 80.

I mustn't tempt fate, but I kind of like the idea of a mobility scooter with optics attached and a big basket and

a sort of an ice bucket.

Yeah.

And to hurl myself around some precinct, music of blasting and just sort of

having a drink.

Harriet.

You blast Harriet.

yeah i was hearing blast a bit of harriet yeah yeah really excellent i used to watch this man in in canterbury who was who who

used to go round in circles he used to put it on full lock and he had music going in the middle of the um the high street i think which was pedestrianized in canterbury used to go round and round and round drinking a bottle of sherry just sit there for ages just going round and round and round wearing his battery down but then presumably you'd watch him for ages right yeah i sat in i sat in cafe nero watching him because he was just outside there having a pint of coffee.

Yeah.

Thinking one day that'll be me

if I'm not careful.

Yeah.

Yeah, sure.

But also it sounds like you're putting yourself in.

The Saturday's got a great time.

We've got to be careful of chip buddies as well.

I'll give you a warning about chips.

You know about the dinner lady's mole.

No.

You've got to be careful of dinner lady mole on chips.

You know, when you get the eye of the potato on your chip

and sometimes it has some frond,

like

hair like things coming off well we used to we used to say that that was the dinner lady's mole on there because our dinner lady when we went when i went to five-way school in stanway

she had like a teddy boy's haircut which was dyed brown and and was very very broad scottish very wrinkly and had a mole with hairs coming out and um that was the dinner lady's mole so that's the dinner lady's mole yeah so you've got to be careful you've got to choose your chips carefully yes and some kids would just discard that whole chip.

If you were hungry, you had to decide, well, I'll cut that bit off or just cut the bit out.

The thing is, it was almost like operating on her face, you know, and it was like, it was a really weird, hideous.

Would you never get it?

So you'd throw the chip away.

Would you never give it back to the dinner lady?

No, you just.

Found your mold.

Yeah.

Found your mole.

Oh, no way.

She was fearsome.

Yeah, yeah.

Fearsome.

She'd destroy you.

I wouldn't want to cut it out.

She'd cut the hairy side Immediately.

I wouldn't cut it out.

I'll just get rid of the dreams.

You know what I mean by that?

You know I don't mean anything rude, don't you?

Yes.

Good.

Yeah.

No one thought that you meant that.

No.

Although, you know, I didn't think Claret and Beaujolais was rude, but apparently it is.

So who knows?

You could be being the most filthy guest we've ever had and we don't even know it.

I know.

We arrive at your dream dessert.

We know that you've got a sweet tooth, you said earlier.

Well, this is a school-related dessert because it's sort of that toffee tart, and I've never found it ever since.

Right.

I'm not sure we had the toffee tart.

I don't think we have a toffee tart.

It's weird.

I suppose it must be like toffee-flavoured condensed milk or something like that, poured into a pastry.

I know what you mean.

It was just toffee-ish, and I think it had some sort of skin on the top at some point.

I don't remember the skin.

Maybe not a skin.

Maybe that was just sat around for too long.

But it must have just been toffee sort of flavoured condensed milk or something.

Condensed milk is what comes, it's the thick stuff.

Yeah, same as evaporated milk.

Evaporated milk's different, isn't it?

Isn't it thinner?

It's been cheeky.

Condensed milk is the stuff that Lenny Henry used to eat in sandwiches when he had his okay carrots a yonks ago, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

Condensed milk sandwiches.

Yeah.

Which, I don't know,

I probably should have tried, but I wouldn't let the bread get in the way.

I went straight in with the teaspoon on that stuff.

It's too good, isn't it?

Yeah.

I think I know what you're talking about with this toffee tart.

I think my mum made, who's an excellent cook,

made

toffee pie oh and i was obsessed with it and i've and you just reminded me of it and i really my mum listens to every episode so mum please make it again recipe please i would love to eat that again it was just a big

like say it was just like soft toffee yeah like slightly set on pastry yeah yeah it was really good

i think maybe it's pie rather than tart i mean it sounds delicious it was great yeah if it's if it's the same thing i'm thinking of

absolutely I was so stoked whenever my mum would make it.

It's excellent stuff.

And I haven't had it since I was probably at junior school.

Yeah.

So anybody?

Anybody want to make sure that you're going to have to do what we're talking about here?

And you would have it with squirty cream.

You did the squirty cream.

I could have it with squirty cream.

Yeah.

What would be the best thing with that?

Custard might be a bit of a weird one.

Yeah.

Maybe just like pouring cream.

A bit of squirty.

Pouring cream.

Squirty and pouring.

Well, I like mixing the old stuff because one of my favourite desserts was a Bakewell pudding up in Bakewell.

Yes.

And we had custard and ice cream.

Wow.

Custard and ice cream is the best.

Ed and I did the show Hunted.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, excellent.

I went to watch that.

And we did that.

And, you know, you go on the, we were on the run for about a week.

We did a lot in that.

So most of it got obviously gets cut out the edit because you're just

on the run all the time.

And there was one day where we went to about five different places and in the edit, we just got to one place.

But one of the places we went to was Bakewell.

And we were in the car.

Someone was giving us a lift.

And I saw a sign to Bakewell instantly thought that it made me think I want a Bakewell pudding.

Yeah.

And I went, ooh.

And Ed, all Ed heard was me in the back go, ooh.

And then he instantly went, have you seen a sign to Bakewell and now you want a Bakewell pudding?

And then he went there immediately.

I said, yes.

And then we went, went there and we got a bakewell pudding, which are infinitely better than the Bakewell tart.

And you called it a Bakewell pudding at this point.

Well, because there's Bakewell pudding.

You don't want to say tart.

No, no because the tart is a false a falsehood yeah i i don't i don't like the bakewell tart as much i think they're fine bakewell puddings are incredible yeah you're and i didn't know to be honest i didn't know that i wasn't you know i wasn't aware about the the tart pudding war yeah there is it's a big it's a big thing we went in we said bakewell pudding please and the lady said good choice and then she just sung bakewell pudding all the way to the shelf yeah

hello the pudding

bake well whenever you yeah

I was thinking, wow, they go, and you sort of make a transaction and they get sang to.

Yeah, yeah.

I had to bring her the

case for the bake world pudding, the metal tray.

Yeah.

Little metal foil tray.

We sat on a wall and we ate the bake world pudding and they were filming us do it doing it and we just thought there's no way this is making the edit.

They're not putting this in but we're really happy.

Did they not put it in?

No.

It's supposed to be a high octane sort of

thing.

There's men in like

black ops

something like rugby tackling you and stuff when you're running to a helicopter i quite like that show it was fun yeah and i loved that baked pole pudding and i love that you've chosen the toffee pie yes it's great that for me is very exciting because yeah it's something that i'd forgotten about that i absolutely loved and i'm a big dessert boy so yeah me too i love a dessert i i have had two two two stars and two two desserts and just miss out the um yeah sometimes that's a good thing to do see i'm happy with that too because because I'm a starter boy.

Freaks people out.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

They think you're really

weird and different.

And interesting.

I know Vigian menu back to you now.

See how you feel about it.

You would like still water sucked from a hillside.

You want to suck it from a hillside?

Poplars of bread, you want a crusty French bread and butter and salt on a plane with the tray down flown by Dave.

Starter, you want the shrimp cocktail from the seafood shack in maybe Redondo Beach, we haven't figured it out.

Main Nazi Gereng with chicken satay made by the the 200-year-old woman who you're I think it comes with chicken satay as part of the dish of

the dish of side dish.

You would like the chip butty with HP sauce, ketchup, vinegar, and salt from the chip shop that's now shut.

Yeah, or any one, too.

Friend's parents' chip shop.

Yeah,

Sponden chip shop.

Drink an Erdinger, alcohol-free Erdinger, which you want on the way to the seafood shack while you're driving an electric bike.

Dessert, you would like the toffee pie from school dinners served by the dinner lady with a mole in her face.

Yeah, how's that feel?

It feels it feels excellent.

It feels like I could just put my feet up now and watch Antiques Road Show.

Oh, yeah, is that

the perfect post-meal show to watch?

I think so.

What's your favourite part of Antiques Road Show?

When

they get loads of money for it, when they get told it's worthless, when they get loads, yeah, like my least favorite is good, better, best.

Yeah, not for you,

it's an ego trip.

That means

No, no, yeah, that's a nice bit of telly.

I like gentle TV.

Going back to coffee and TV, that's what you're watching.

Gentle TV.

Yeah.

Instead of, yeah, gentle television.

I'm sort of, I'm of that age.

Yeah.

I'm 54.

I like gentle television.

Graham, thank you very much for coming to the dream restaurant.

Pleasure.

Thank you, Graham.

It was very.

Well, there we are, James.

That was fun.

I loved it so much.

Yeah.

I mean, I think the listener could probably hear how much I was loving it.

Yes.

Great menu as well.

Really good menu.

I really like Graham.

Yeah.

He had a real silly glint in his eye.

He's cheeky.

He's a cheeky guy.

He's a

cheeky little boy.

Yes.

And also, as with a lot of cheeky boys, very comfortable with a little silence.

Oh, yeah.

Love it.

I love that.

I hope it's in the edit, but where James mentions the cadence of of Graeme's voice, where he will get to the end of a sentence, but it sounds like he's halfway through.

And then he'll really revel in the bit where we think he's going to carry on talking.

Yep.

He'll look at us like, gotcha.

What are you going to do about that?

A lot of fun.

And I can always tell it's a good many because my stomach starts going absolutely wild.

And it was the chip butty that did it for me today.

I really want a chip butty now.

It was the chip butty with ketchup, HP sauce and vinegar.

Yeah.

Just brilliant.

Yeah.

And There's everything on it.

Although, you know, now every time I eat a chip butty, I am going to be opening it up and checking that there's no moles on the chips.

Yeah.

Because that's

got in my head now.

Yes.

I don't want to accidentally eat one without knowing.

And he didn't say Beaujolais, although we came perilously close.

Yeah.

And

we should tell more guests what the secret ingredient is once we know that they've certainly if they come close.

Yeah.

Because it's quite fun to know if they would have gone through it or not.

Yeah.

But it was never

a risk.

Also, it didn't even mean that in the song.

No, it didn't even mean that in the song.

It meant something disgusting and gross of me.

Yes.

The ballad.

You didn't like it when I said bums and dicks.

You were ashamed of me because you were talking to one of your favourites.

You're really ashamed of me for saying, was coffee and TV about bums and dicks?

But Graham enjoyed it.

What I liked about whenever we did say something like that, that was a bit rude and puerile.

Yeah.

Is that Graham would really enjoy it, but it would be on a delay.

Yes.

So he would hear bums and dicks, completely receive it with a straight face, and then 30 seconds later we go bumps and dicks and really laugh about it and he did it with pissed my pants as well

well

and then i pissed my pants there's just no response i thought oh i've learned the tone i told a really personal story and now i've ruined it and then he went pissed your pants really loved it um the ballad of darren is out now yes by blur and also

the wave which is uh graham's other band with rose eleanor dougal his partner they have a new album out which is just called called the wave the wave It's self-titled.

And you should all check that out as well.

Absolutely.

You know, not only did Blur pulverize Oasis in the battle, but also...

I don't think

Graham was...

I like that you, that question felt like you were interviewing him in the 90s.

Yes.

But he gave a very 2023 answer of, I don't think we did.

And it's all a bit silly.

He's matured now.

Yes.

But they pulverized them.

And not only did they pulverize them, they've also pulverized them with the side projects and solo projects, in my opinion.

Yes.

So, you know, get that album by the wave.

Yes.

And get Harriet's album.

Yeah, I think they've had enough plugging this episode.

Yeah.

They're going to be really weirded out by that.

Yeah.

And read the All Creatures Great and Small Books, if you like,

Christian Vets as well.

Also, by Party Gate of Purgatory by Temps.

All the music listeners who are listening.

All the music listeners.

If we're going to promote bands and albums,

I would like to promote that album.

Also, pre-order my book, Glutton, The Multi-Course Life of a Very Greedy Boy.

I mentioned music, innit?

What more do you want?

Thank you very much for listening.

We will see you again next week.

Bye-bye.

Goodbye.

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Oh, hello, it's Amy Gladhell here.

Hello, I'm Harriet Kemsley.

Single ladies, it's coming to London.

Well, we're already in in London, I suppose, in a way, but we're doing a live show, aren't we?

It's true on Saturday, the 13th of September at 7 p.m.

at King's Place.

So we've got your Saturday night sorted.

We've done all the organising for you.

Come along, have some drinks, alcoholic or non-alcoholic, both are available.

And you can get your tickets from plursive.co.uk.

Or just head to the link in our Instagram bio and just clickity click click.

London, we're coming.