Ep 148: Jarvis Cocker

Hello, it's Ed Gamble here from the Off Menu Podcast.

Hello, it's James Acaster here from the Off Menu Podcast.

And before the episode starts, we'd like to talk to you about All Our Relations, a non-profit co-founded by your friend of mine, comedian Jen Brister, and Georgia Takax.

Yes, All Our Relations was originally started to support 15 families in Gaza when the genocide started, but now supports 21 families and funds several mutual aid projects, including two seven-day food kitchens and two mobile food parcel delivery schemes, as well, feeding hundreds of families in Gaza every single day.

They've created an absolutely amazing thing.

And we feel like, you know, it's the off-menu podcast.

We talk about food and we are very lucky to eat wonderful food and have access to absolutely brilliant food all of the time.

And I think we need to talk about people who have access to no food, James.

Absolutely.

So if people would like to donate, please go to allourrelations.co.uk or look at the links in Jen Brister's bio on Instagram.

Every penny raised goes to supporting people in Gaza.

Thank you so much and enjoy the episode.

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Welcome to the Off Menu podcast, taking the tequila of good conversation, the lime of humor, mixing it with the ice of the internet, and salting the rim with the salt of friends.

Salting the rim, everybody!

Salt the rim, you gotta salt the rim for a moment.

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That's it, Gamble.

My name is James A.

Caster.

Welcome to the Off Menu Podcast.

We invite a guest into the dream restaurant and we ask them their favorite ever starter main course dessert, side dish, and drink, not in that order.

And this week, our guest is

Jarvis Cocker.

It's Jarvis Cocker.

Wow.

Wow.

I mean, I didn't think this would ever happen.

This is exciting.

Very exciting.

This is someone who I get told I look like a lot, which I don't think I do.

Energy-wise.

Maybe it's just an energy-wise thing.

No, you both got reached.

You're both lithe, I'd say.

Back in my online days, all I ever got on social media was photos of Jarvis Cocker every day saying James Acaster vibes or all this or like photos.

And I didn't really see it much myself.

I don't think Jarvis will will agree.

Well,

finally, I get to decide.

Yeah, you get to like

the side by side.

You're going to be in the same room.

And I think, I know what people mean, probably just like the sort of, you know, slightly wiry, like you got a, yeah, you've got the similar stance, maybe.

But, I mean, facially, I wouldn't say so at all.

No, but that, you know, tell that to the public, Ed.

I will.

I mean, we are.

Might have.

I'm telling them right now.

I do have reminded you that they do listen to this for the public.

Yeah.

But obviously, I think, are we in National Treasure Territory?

Yeah, this is is national treasure.

I think we're in national treasure territory, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Another one, we have a lot of national treasures.

Got enough for a treasure chest now, yeah.

We've got a whole chest full of them, no context off menu, yeah, put that together, little treasure chest, put all the national treasures we've ever had into the same treasure chest, peeking, peeking out.

Uh, very excited to have Jarvis on the pod, uh, especially as he's written a book, he's written his memoir, James, good, good pop, bad pop, good pop, bad pop.

I've suggested the title Pulp Fiction, yeah, I thought that might it might be called that, but then then I realised it's a memoir, so it's non-fiction, non-fiction.

So

pulp non-fiction doesn't work quite as well.

Yeah, as it's a bit clunky.

I mean, it's such a famous film that you risk people thinking it's a book about the film pulp fiction.

I'd be happy to read that.

I'd be happy to read Jarvis Cocker's take on pulp fiction.

Sure, absolutely.

Yeah, let's pitch that to Jarvis.

Okay, yeah, cool.

But unfortunately, if Jarvis has a secret ingredient that we have pre-decided upon, he will be removed from the restaurant, which is going to be very awkward.

And today's secret ingredient is going to be cold spinach leaves spinach leaves cold spinach leaves look I like spinach James I'm a spinach head yeah spinach is great but you know what I like a wilted spinach I like a cooked spinach I like spinach in a curry something like that cold spinach leaves in a salad what are you doing there's not supposed to be cold I'm tired of them I find them boring Benito loves them he asked us to make that known to you know give a bit of balance there yeah but and look I know that I'm gonna eat them again I'll do it to be healthy have them in salads and whatnot.

But I do find it extremely dull.

I don't mind him in a mixed bag.

In a mixed bag.

When they're in a mixed bag with your rockets, your watercresses,

you can get away with it because your rockets and your watercresses are peppery.

They're fun, right?

They're bringing something to the party.

It doesn't matter if the odd spinach leaf sneaks in there.

But the stalks, the stalks are too

chewy,

you know, the size of them.

They're going into my mouth.

The size of a spinach leaf just feels awkward and annoying.

Yeah, you can.

Like it's a bit too big.

Yeah, just slightly too big.

Yeah, I don't like it.

And the texture's slightly too rubbery.

You don't have a small mouth, though.

No, but the size of a spinach leaf, I don't like it.

Normal mouth.

Not like my tour manager's got a tiny mouth.

Has he?

Little mouth.

Little mouth Paul Brown.

He writes out we were staying in a hotel and they had one of those cow milk jugs where you pour the milk and it comes out the cow's mouth.

It's exactly the same size as Paul's mouth.

I'll show you a picture later.

Thank you.

Just thought I'd get that in there.

Yes, so if Jarvis picks cold spinach leaves, gone, I'm afraid.

We'll be gone.

Apologies, Jarvis.

But hopefully, that won't happen.

I'm doing some autumn dates of my tour, James.

Edgamble.co.uk for tickets.

The show's called Electric.

Very excited, like September, October, November.

Around then, come and watch me on it.

Very exciting, and you can pre-order my book, James A.K.S.

Guide to Quitting Social Media, Being the Best You You Can Can Be and Curing Yourself of Loneliness, Volume 1.

You can pre-order it wherever you get your books.

And now, this is the off-menu menu of Jarvis Cocker.

Welcome, Jarvis, to the Dream Restaurant.

Welcome, Jarvis Cocker, to the Dream Restaurant.

We've been expecting you for some time.

Oh, have you?

Well, I didn't make a reservation.

You didn't need to.

It's been your destiny.

Oh, all right, okay.

We all make a celestial reservation at the dream restaurant as soon as we're born.

Yeah, yeah.

And now to James's more important question.

Do you believe in destiny, Jarvis?

Um, no, no,

no.

Did you consider it then in that moment?

No, I used to.

Well, do you ever get deja vu?

Do you ever give guess?

Yep.

So I did used to think sometimes if once you had that feeling, that was like a sign that you were on the right path.

Like it's like, as you say, you had a destiny.

And because you were getting this feeling, like, I've been here, I've done this before, that meant that, like, yeah, you were following the right path.

Maybe it's because I haven't had deja vu for a long time, so maybe I subconsciously, I think I've wandered off the path or something.

but yeah i i i don't particularly it's a dangerous thing to believe in because it can make you complacent i think yeah then you never feel like you're making a decision you always feel like you're doing the right thing regardless right well yeah but then again i really hate pushy people as well you know people for instance if you're in a restaurant you know somebody would say right i want this table

And you know, people who like really have a go at the waiter or whatever.

Yes,

bring me a gallon of gravy.

That's not enough.

You know, and all stuff like that.

So I guess that's somebody who doesn't believe in destiny, who thinks like I'm going to be in control of every situation.

I don't believe in that.

It's my destiny to have a gallon of gravy.

I don't know what I believe in.

Yeah.

I believe in something.

I believe in

people say go with the flow, don't they?

Yeah.

Is that the same as destiny?

I go with the flow.

But the flow could change, right?

Yeah, I suppose what I mean by that, I suppose, is like important things that have happened to me, major things, have always been things that I haven't planned.

You know what I mean?

It's never, you know, I think sometimes when you plan something, it's going to be amazing.

This is going to be so awesome.

And then when it comes to it, it's a bit of like,

whatevs.

And then something amazing, like you meet somebody totally out of the blue or whatever.

and it can blow you away.

But then with music, because if you're releasing an album, there's a lot of planning involved.

So is it often at the end when it comes out, you're just like,

no, because, well, but the making of music is is much more of a

random process.

You know, that's what I like about it.

You know, you can walk into a room with some instruments in the morning and you leave it later that day with a song.

And to me, that's still kind of a magical thing, you know, that you can do that.

Sometimes the song might not be that great, but you do something, you know, and

you can manufacture something yourself.

And I think that's good.

You just have to kind of launch yourself into it and see what happens.

Yeah.

And it's not too thought out.

The end bit, yeah, when it's all recorded and you have to go and try and flog it to people then that is a bit different, you know.

Yeah, you've heard it a million times by then as well.

It's not going in the room that morning and discovering it.

Yeah, I think that's the thing.

Like when you first get an idea for a song, say you're like in a room, we could be jamming now if we all had instruments.

Yeah,

sort of.

Didn't you play the drums at one point?

Yeah, he's a bassoon player.

Oh, well, yeah.

Bassoon.

Not for a long time, time, Jarvis Barr.

He's a good instrument.

He used to dabble with the bassoon.

Okay, that's good drums, bassoon, and vocal.

That could be

something.

That's a new thing.

A good band.

Pretty nifty band, actually.

But, you know, you start jamming around or whatever and something happens.

And then that's really exciting at that point.

You know, when you first get the idea for a song and you think, God, this song could be anything.

And then it's always, when you kind of then have to go and record it or get it ready to play live, it always kind of gets kind of tamed and in the end you think

yeah maybe this one isn't going to change the world but it's all right yeah but at that first moment it's like uh wow this could be anything and that's exciting yeah is that how you feel about a meal sometimes

you're at the start of the meal this could be anything could be the best meal you've ever had well yeah you never know do you i mean you've got clues yeah that's what i think you walk into a restaurant square plates i would just turn around and walk straight back out you know what i mean

you have to you have to be really aware of those things yeah so if I if I was to walk in and see a square plate I'd just say look I think we've made a mistake here let's yeah let's get out what sort of food would you expect then if you're in a square in if you're in a square plate restaurant there must have been a time when you had a square plate is it square food as well

you've actually come up with maybe the only

justification for a square plate I can think of a square a waffle yeah because there isn't that much square food no there isn't around yeah i guess bread i guess like a sandwich or something yeah again if it was a restaurant that was just serving slices of bread you'd be thinking

maybe not probably not for me yeah yeah i i associate it with fussy food

you know it's like they've thought too much about the plates like we're going to be a bit different we're going to have square plates so then it's like oh yeah we're going to be a bit different we're going to mix sweet and savory and then put it in a cream sauce or something like you know they're probably too fussy So you're a bit more straightforward with your food.

You want like honesty?

Straight-edge food.

Straight-edge food.

Yeah, like straight-edge music, yeah.

I'd like to see you in a straight-edge band, Sean.

I am in one.

I am in one.

We're just not known as it.

You just haven't made it.

You're not like minor threats, shout with it from the move tops.

You're not in a straight-edge band, are you?

Well, straight-edge, as I understand it, which is like a...

Is Adam Betts still in your band?

Oh, you're saying he's a monster.

Adam Betts is a monster.

Adam Betts, yeah.

Adam plays the drums in the the band, yeah.

Yeah, I've seen Adam drink a beer.

Have you seen him drink a beer before?

I've seen him drink a beer.

Yeah, I suppose you're right.

Serrated edge.

Yeah, yeah, that's a good idea.

Serrated edge.

Also, I want to talk about your book as well before we get into your menu problem.

We don't have to.

You don't want to?

No,

of course, it's nice if it gets mentioned, but we don't have to.

We are going to talk about it for your PR's sake, if no one else does.

Yeah, they'll come after us.

They're the ones we're really scared of.

All right, okay.

Good pop, bad pop is what we've been struggling to say.

We struggle to say it.

Have you struggled to say it?

Good pop, bad pop.

No, you're not popping up.

I've been practicing because I'm going on this vestige once.

I've got to be able to pronounce the title of the book.

What's the title come from?

See, my stomach made a noise.

We've not even started talking about food yet.

I loved it.

Well, it's an adaptation of Good Cop, Bad Cop.

At first, actually, a few years ago in the run-up to Brexit and all that, I wrote

a little pamphlet.

You know, there's a rough trade books do these like, they're nice, like, well, they are pamphlets, I mean, maybe like 18 pages or something.

And I did like a thing for that.

And then I just thought, oh, that's a good title.

I should use it for something else.

Originally, my book was going to be called This Book is a Song.

Very poetic.

But I don't know, halfway through writing it, I kind of started again.

And so I thought, I'll change the title as well.

And Good Pop, Bad Pop seemed to work because I was born in a kind of pop age.

And I've kind of felt that I was a bit kind of brought up by it in a way, by the stuff that I saw on the telly or songs that I heard on the radio.

You know, they give you an idea of what the world's going to be like, don't they?

Whether it's accurate or not is another thing, but they kind of do raise you in a bit.

So pop's had a good effect on me, but then probably a bad effect on me as well.

And in the book, we talk about that a little bit.

Also, pop kind of has been hijacked by by evil people.

You know, like advertising people, politicians, you know they they kind of the pop that I think is good pop and this is where I sound like some kind of old bloke going on about back in the olden days whatever but you know the pop music that I was around when I was a kid and and people were really into it you know kids would come to to school with a radio to listen to the chart rundown

like the midweek thing and stuff like that and and you know singles were quite cheap you could buy it and then everybody would kind of see it was a bit like betting on the horses or something you know like hoping that the band that you liked their record would go up in the charts that week and you know it was quite a kind of national pastime and I liked that and I liked the fact that weird records would be hits that nobody could have predicted and sometimes record companies would spend loads of money on promoting something and it would just bomb yeah and then something would come out of nowhere and stuff like that and so to me that was good pop because it was like people were making it themselves they were kind of involved in it now it's bad pop now it's simon cowell you you know, now it's like

that's bad that's in music terms he's he's bad pop.

I feel like it might be being wrestled from those guys now.

It's wrestled out of their grips a bit now with the way the internet is.

Well, such a just everyone can just, again, just put it out themselves.

I think you're going to see the end of him soon.

People like that.

Yeah, well that'd be great.

So you're saying like good pop could be coming back.

I think good pop's coming back.

You might, the next edition of the book might have to be called good pop, bad pop, good pop.

Yeah.

Where's the start with your meal?

All We always start with still or sparkling water.

Yeah, that's a good start

Yeah, I thought about this and what about somewhere in the middle because not all sparkling waters are equally fizzy true like for instance Perrier

mega fizzy.

Yeah.

But if you get something like a San Pellegrino

not that fizzy.

Yeah.

You say this is a dream restaurant, so to celebrate that, let's have some bubbles, but not too much bubbles that will give us kind of like we're burping all the time which isn't very nice when there's other people I assume there's other people in the restaurant

it's your dream so if you want to be eating in a completely empty restaurant just you or just with someone else that you know that's fine too what about eating round a corner

you want everyone else

yeah so that you can hear that the people there yeah but you're around the corner actually in a corner is my favourite place to be in a restaurant facing outwards or inwards

outwards Outwards.

Yeah, because then you know, there's no, I don't know whether it's a kind of instinct that you know you can't be attacked or something like that, but you're in the corner, so you don't have to worry about anything that's happening behind you, and then you kind of look out into the room and you can see what's going on.

That is my favorite place to be.

And if I'm with my girlfriend, which I would hope that she was allowed to come to this restaurant.

Of course, she knows.

So what we normally do is either be sat next to each other or if you're in a corner, then you can kind of be one person on one angle of the corner and one on the other.

So I don't like sitting opposite someday.

It seems like a job interview or something.

It's like a confrontational just being opposite people.

Like I'm opposite you now, you know, it's like...

It feels that we feel a little bit alive.

Well, but it's what I mean, especially at a dinner table where you're quite close.

Yeah.

If you sit next to each other, then you've both kind of got the same...

you're looking at the same thing, so you've got something to talk about then.

It's more like you're at home, really, then, isn't it?

If you're sat sort of next to each other, isn't it?

Or you're watching a telly or something, you know, then you can just like ask comment on the plates or the people or the, you know.

Yeah, I'd meal with my girlfriend Music in a restaurant and we sat opposite each other and

behind her there was like I have nothing to say I have nothing to say.

Behind her there was nothing.

But behind me there was a window.

There's all these plants outside in kind of a little jungle and there was all these stray cats that kept on going down and playing together.

And she was having a great time watching all of that.

And they were all friends.

So there was a story she was building in her head about how they all met.

I was looking at nothing.

Yeah.

So did you want to be looking at the stray cats as well?

Yeah.

You wanted that rather than you both had nothing to look at and had to talk to each other.

Yeah, I'd rather that I was sat on her side with her and we got to both see the stray cats rather than her go, I'd see her face change and then I'd quickly spin around to try and look at the stray cat and it had gone or whatever and I'd have missed it.

Yeah.

What's your dream animal to see while you're eating, Jarvis?

Yeah.

Not a rat.

Not a rat.

Oh, he doesn't like rats.

I once saw a mouse.

There's a restaurant that I used to like to go to in Paris because I'd lived there for a while.

And I used to go in the daytime.

It was always really busy at night.

And if you went in the daytime, it was quite quiet.

So quiet that sometimes the mice would get emboldened, you know.

And I remember just like eating something and watching.

It was walking along the top of the exit sign, you know, like that.

I was thinking, fucking stay up there, don't go down here.

Because I'm quite scared of mice.

Are you?

Yeah.

That's quite funny, isn't it?

Not really.

Not if the fear

is as strong as it is with me.

But I think, yeah, as a tall person myself, I feel I can say that tall people being afraid of mice is visually funny, visually amusing.

It's cartoonish.

Yeah, I guess.

I get compared to you a lot.

Do you know this?

No.

When I used to be on, I'm not on social media anymore.

When I used to be, every single day, people would tweak me photos of you saying, James Acass is having a nice time or whatever.

Well, now we're in the same room.

You can see

what do you think?

Not that true, is it?

There's some nice similar energies and you're both quite lithe.

But, you know, I don't think I wouldn't say you look like each other.

I don't look like each other, do you?

No, I don't think so.

No.

Now, I'm just going to say this now, Jarvis.

I don't want you to be scared.

But James played a mouse in a film.

I don't know how that makes you feel about him.

Would you be scared of me if you know that I played a mouse in a film?

No, because because actually, strangely enough, maybe we are more similar than you think.

I've played a mouse in a film.

There you go.

There was this thing on Netflix at the beginning of this year called The House.

And it was like a, you know, like stop motion animation.

Yeah.

But it wasn't for kids.

It was kind of a quite strange film, actually, quite good.

And it had like three stories all based in the same house.

And I was in the middle story.

I was a mouse property developer.

I was kind of doing the house up to flip it on, you know, trying to sell it it.

Yeah, yeah.

This is amazing.

There you go.

We've played 500.

What is your mouse's name?

He didn't have a name.

He was just the mouse property developer.

There can't be that many of them.

You don't need a named character when it's a mouse party developer.

No one's going to get missed.

What was your mouse's name?

John.

John.

Yeah.

And

what did you have to do?

Cinderella.

Alright.

So I changed from a mouse into a footman.

But was this like live action, real?

Yeah, but then the mouse, CGI mouse, and then gets changed into me as a boy, as you see me now.

And then I got changed back into the mouse again.

But yeah, it was me, Romish Ranger Nathan, his mouse was called Romish, and James Corden, and his mouse was called James.

My mouse was called John.

Because John Mulaney was meant to play that part, but cancelled.

So

I had to fill in for him at the last minute.

That will make me laugh every time you say it.

Yeah.

Pop it ups or bread.

Pop it ups or bread.

Jarvis Cocker, pop it ups or bread.

Well, I'm trying to be a bit gluten-free nowadays.

I mean, we used to watch Jimita Panini.

Yeah.

I'm not really succeeding.

I did say trying, to be fair.

Yeah, yeah.

The thing is, you don't want to fill yourself up on bread before you start the meal, do you?

Yeah.

You don't want to do that.

So.

Oh, it's a poppa cannabis.

No, no, I'll go for some bread.

Because other things get.

You have prawn crackers.

Could you have like a Melbourne toast?

Yeah.

Yeah, you could have a Melbourne.

You know, that's super.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's all right.

Yeah.

Can you have some Melbourne toast, please?

Yeah, you could have some Melbourne toast.

No one's ever had Melbourne toast before.

No, I don't think so.

Right.

It's quite exciting when we get a new one.

I don't know.

It's thin and it's toasty.

It's super brittle, yeah.

Yeah.

Would you join anything on that?

Just a tiny scraping of butter.

Yeah.

Was that your mouse voice?

Yeah, the mouse is so property.

The mouse had a normal voice.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, your voice.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, normal-ish.

That's why they're hiring you for your voice, I'd imagine.

They would be very disappointed if you turned up and started doing a mouse voice.

That's also annoying.

It's annoying when like actors do like voices for stuff and they put on an accent for a card and you go, Why have you hired that person?

Yeah.

Just hire someone that's from there.

And I was about to give an example, but no, I'm not going to give the example because I know what would happen.

But no?

Ah, no?

Yes.

James is referring to Shrek because James does a very good Shrek impression.

Would you like to hear James's Shrek impression, Jarvis?

Yeah, come on.

Well,

what would you like me to talk about is Shrek, Jarvis?

imagine you're talking to the donkey about yeah it's

personal hygiene

donkey you gotta wash behind your ears your beard's so disgusting donkey you gotta brush your teeth donkey come over here and listen to me while i'm talking to you how do you feel about that um well i'm glad to have witnessed it yeah It's a long time since I've seen Shrek, so I can't say exactly how I've got a lot of people.

Well, it's very good, the film and James's impression, both actually equally good.

There's Shrek the musical which is available to watch on Netflix and I popped on the first five minutes the other day and it's utterly horrifying.

Yeah yeah.

It's terrifying.

Is it live action?

A man dressed as Shrek.

This is Shrek the musical as in like a live stage version of Shrek the Musical.

Oh no.

A big green man.

Do you like musicals as a musician?

Oh God.

No I don't.

Like when I used to do a radio show on Six Music on a Sunday, when I got in the lift, it would always be Elaine Page on.

And she plays loads of musicals.

just try.

I can last about even the length.

You know, it's only three floors.

But by the time I was got to the third floor, I was going, please let me have this lengthy.

It's just like so

that kind of

I just hate it.

It's like, shut up.

That's good, though.

You think I could get a job on

Shaftsbury Avenue?

Yeah, I wish you would shred the musical if you were doing that.

I think a pulp drukebox musical,

but then people turn up and it's everyone's doing it in that voice would be

a desecration.

I think pulp fans would like that though.

If there was a pulp the musical and it was all your hits but everyone sang it like that, not really enunciating any of the lyrics and just you're just trying to finish what's left of my career.

Starter, your dream starter.

You're sat in the corner with your girlfriend, looking out at the restaurant.

I don't know about you personally, but sometimes I'm impatient just to get to the main course.

course yeah

whether you really i mean i suppose but then again sometimes it just fills in a bit of time because if you just say well i'm gonna go for a main and then you might have to wait like 40 minutes whilst they cook it or something so you have to go for something reasonably small i might just go for a classic such as a prawn cocktail as soon as you said classic yeah i knew it's going to be a prawn cocktail yeah it is the ultimate classic starter yeah yeah and the thing is that you can think oh maybe that's ironic or whatever but a nice prawn cocktail is really good and it fulfills the criteria of a starter because it kind of comes and there's there's a volume to it but most of it's just lettuce really

and then some pink that Marie Rose sauce stuff you've got some big prawns you got king prawn no I wouldn't go for you want the tiddlers

yeah in fact mine would be more like a shrimp cocktail

I don't like them massive prawns no no that that that that stems from going on a holiday to Spain with my mum when I was younger.

They would make those paella things, a giant one for about 50 people.

And they'd have these them giant prawns like, oh God.

I suppose I was a kid, so they just looked massive.

So for me,

it's like some kind of, and then you had to get hold of them and they were like greasy and you had to kind of like, and then your hands were all covered in like yellowy stuff.

And

then you're supposed to eat it.

And then you've got like the head there looking at you like, I didn't like it.

So I've never got over that so much so I prefer the the shrimps to be just like you know white knobbly things you don't have to remove anything they're just straight in the mouth no message yeah there's no kind of peeling yeah and stuff like that what would be more scary looking up at an exit sign and a mouse going across it or a king prawn scuttling across it

well a king prawn i mean out of water is is is useless.

I wouldn't feel that scared.

The thing about a mouse is it can move so fast.

That's That's why I was looking at it on top of that exit sign because I knew that they can be just down by you in a matter of twinkling of an eye.

So that's what I didn't like.

On occasions, I have had a mouse in the flat I was living in once, and I was a nervous wreck, because you always think you're seeing it out of the corner of your eye and stuff like that.

It's horrible.

First place I lived in in London, just mice everywhere.

Yeah.

And one of my housemates woke up and there's a mouse on her face.

Oh, okay.

How do you feel about that?

But what did she do?

I mean,

surely she didn't stay in the flat or the house.

We complained to the landlord and he evicted us.

That's my favourite mouse.

That's what happened.

That was terrible.

Yeah, that's what happened.

So that's my separate word.

He went, get out.

Yeah,

they're renting.

Yeah.

You shouldn't be there.

They're good tenants.

You're in a bed.

When I was a student in our house once, I walked into the kitchen and there was a frog in there.

Really?

Massive frog.

Yeah.

I think there was like a hole in the back door or something and the frog had come in like a sort of straight.

And what was it doing?

Was it like on a work surface?

It was on the floor, but it was hopping.

It could have hopped up to the work surface.

It was big hops, but I had to sort of bundle it up in a tea towel.

I sort of secured the tea towel at the top and sort of let it look.

Well, that's very humane.

Yeah.

I mean, it's tricky to...

I'm not going to splat a frog in the kitchen.

It seems like I'm making more work for myself.

So for you, the starter is like, I'm a starter boy, Jovis.

He loves starters.

He's his favourite coffee.

I still love starters because it's a little bonus mini meal for me.

But it seems like you're talking about the amount of lettuce is key because it's sort of got volume, but it takes up time while you're eating the lettuce while you're waiting for the main course to set up.

Yeah, yeah.

It's all about not peeking too soon.

I don't know.

I mean,

I know that there is a thing, you know, sometimes people will have three starters and that's it.

They don't even bother with the main.

Not me.

I'll have three starters and then the main.

Right.

I love a starter.

But the idea of just chewing lettuce to fill time before the main comes.

no it's not so much that it's just pacing yourself that is pacing i've never i've never had that skill unfortunately no he's very like as a little boy you get very excited about having a a share of a starter to himself yeah i'm very greedy i was very greedy little boy and i'm a greedy big boy

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Sucks!

The new musical has made Tony award-winning history on Broadway.

We demand to be home.

Winner, best score.

We demand to be seen.

Winner, best book.

We demand bequad.

It's a theatrical masterpiece that's thrilling, inspiring, dazzlingly entertaining, and unquestionably the most emotionally stirring musical this season.

Suffs, playing the Orpheum Theater, October 22nd through November 9th.

Tickets at BroadwaySF.com.

So your dream main course then, the thing you're looking forward to that you don't want to you don't want to fill up too much on the porn cocktail.

So what's the main course going to be?

Yeah, I've taken this podcast very seriously very glad to hear it

so i've i've i wrote down quite a few options if you want to shout out some honourable muncheons you can well they're all over the place

some are high and some are low to start low and go

high this could be like when you were a little boy listening to the radio and the playground the charts this is like us we've gathered around the radio listen to the charts of your see what's done well your top ten beats yeah well i suppose back in the midst of time let's we could do chronologically yeah that was yeah at At one point, my favourite was that boil-in-the-bag cod in butter sauce, you know.

Yeah.

But that was kind of practicality because that was when I first came to London and we were going to raves.

And so I kind of came with this thing that you had to eat the blandest food possible before going out all night because otherwise there may be consequences.

So I just used to have cod in butter sauce and mashed potato, just very basically white food.

Yeah.

To just give you energy.

Maybe some peas might be involved there.

You're feeling risky.

Chuck some peas.

And I still kind of like that.

But do you like that?

But you wouldn't get that in a restaurant.

No.

But do you think you like eating that sort of stuff because it makes you feel like you're about to go for a rave?

It must have that effect on you now.

I wanted to feel like I was still...

Yeah, I hadn't thought about that.

Yeah, maybe my raving days are behind me, basically.

Pavlovian, though.

You feel that cod on your tongue.

Muscle mouse.

And then I'd get up

coming up on the cod.

Yeah, that wouldn't.

Then I might get thrown out of the restaurant.

Yeah.

Suddenly, like, stood on the table, like...

I thought he was in a straight edge band now.

He's absolutely off his face on cards.

Boiling the bag, cotton butter sauce.

Yeah, but I still do like some fish.

Fish is quite a good one.

It seems like I've got an obsession with only eating things that aren't heavy.

But I don't like that feeling that when you sat there like, and you feel like weighed down by that.

Yeah, I'm a bit bilious.

I mean, I have to say, actually, one thing that I meant to say at the beginning of this conversation is that, like, I don't think that like music and food go together at all.

Really?

Yeah.

In what way?

I don't know.

They just seem to be the different things somehow.

Like eating food while listening to music.

Terrible.

You'd hate it.

And just I remember, you know,

there was a festival on Blackheath.

I think it was...

It was rumored that it was partly funded by John Lewis.

It's called On Black Heath.

It started like about 10 years ago or something.

And I was DJing there and then i was walking around the site and they did have like weird they'd led like a they were like little mini stages but then there was a guy coming on cooking you know it's really really weird to watch somebody doing that and then and then there was one festival that we played in switzerland it was and in the backstage area they had like you know that raclette stuff that they have like it's like melted cheese yeah where they like scrape the melted cheese off yeah and then you'd like dip bits of bread in yeah so they had one of those backstage and it was on all the time.

All the time we were playing, all I could smell was like

really strong melted cheese the whole way through, yeah, which was like

killing me because I was going, Oh, it smells nice, I know.

And so, then it's putting you off, you know, it's like, I don't know.

And then the real bad thing was we finished the concert, and I went back, and they turned the fucker off,

so I didn't even get any of that.

I just got tortured by it, like, and then it was like, you know, some bands have a dry ice machine, some bands have like a cheese fog machine.

And that wasn't really the vibe I was looking for.

Yeah, I don't think it goes together that well.

I don't know what your opinion is.

No, I see.

From a gig goers perspective, I never enjoy a gig as much as I've eaten a big meal beforehand.

So I don't feel like I can throw myself into it.

And you wouldn't stand there eating a sandwich or something whilst watching, or would you?

No, I wouldn't, because I think of it, so from a comedian's perspective, whenever I've done a gig where like weekend weekend comedy clubs and they give people food to eat as well, like they're getting, you know, burger and chips and pints and watching the comedy, it's very distracting.

And it really feels like you're bottom of the pecking order when someone's tucking into chicken in a basket while you're trying to tell jokes.

We did a gig together once, and during my set, an audience member shouted out, where's my fucking chips?

And it was very...

Very depressing for me.

I'd enjoyed it.

I'd enjoyed watching it happen.

I remember it so distinctly.

It was in Leicester and it was in a cinema.

They had a room where they did gigs in this showcase cinema.

And a woman shouted at James, where's my fucking chips?

And James immediately said, with no gap whatsoever, I'm never doing this gig again.

It was in Coventry.

I don't remember it that distinctly.

Coventry showcase.

Yeah, well, I'd imagine it's more dangerous for you because if you tell a joke and then people laugh, then

all over the place.

Food are going to come forward.

All over the place.

Forget it.

Alex James says, and forgive me, I don't know what the relationships are between various people in Brit Pop but Alex James has a festival doesn't he that's food and music is that correct rest my kids

that was it with the cheese machine trying to put you off

maybe it was yeah he makes his own cheese

I saw have you heard of David

Olbarn I've I heard of him yeah I saw him do a gig the other day and it was all newish stuff that no one had really heard and at one point him and his band started playing a song and everyone started

there's no lyrics yet no vocals and he's doing the song he's building and building and everyone started going

he's gonna he's covering common people this is exciting he's about to cut because it was just the chords to common people in the same rhythm and everyone was like it's gonna be cool and it wasn't

he just ripped you off

well i can't say that because

that song is very very simple so it's not hard to be playing the riff to it, really.

It's only got three chords.

You're a generous man.

I don't think Damon would do that.

No, he wouldn't do it.

It's fun, isn't it?

It's fun to say.

It's fun to start some beef.

Played to try and be a little stirrup.

I'm not taking that.

If I thought there was any risk, I wouldn't have even bothered.

What else is on this potato?

What's your list of mains?

Baked potatoes are nice.

Yeah, they are.

Aren't they?

Now, someone came on this podcast recently and said that they were better than chips and that chips were overrated.

Would you agree with that?

I don't see why it has to be an either-or situation.

You know, one of the most swanky meals I ate was a baked potato with caviar on it.

Oh, that's incredibly sweet.

Where was this?

That was in Paris.

Do you remember in the mouse restaurant?

It was called, it wasn't in the mouse restaurant now.

It was, it's a place called

caviar caspier.

Caviar caspier.

Yeah.

Its main claim to fame was that you can eat

you can have caviar there, yeah.

And was it just caviar on on the baked potato or was there like some other colours?

It was was a tiny little bit of soured cream as well.

Oh,

that's a nice touch.

Yeah, you know, because a baked potato, I'm not saying it's a humble meal, but it's like it's a pretty standard meal, innit?

So I quite like the fact that you are having like the poshest baked potato that could be imagined, really.

How could you make it posher than that?

It's almost posher to do, like, something like a baked potato with caviar on it than just to have the caviar.

Because you're almost saying, like, look at this normal thing.

Look, what we'll do with this really expensive thing, we'll put put it on a baked potato.

You know what I mean?

It's so fancy.

It's a bit, a bit dirty, innit?

It was dirty, though.

Yeah, so that, I don't know whether I would have that, though.

I mean, that's like a thing that you would have occasionally.

I'm really, as I realise, I'm really giving you more like unusual main courses that I've had in the course of my life.

Also, in Paris, other cities are available, but there's a restaurant that only serves soufflés.

And I didn't really know much about souffles they were almost like a joke in in kind of 70s sitcom somebody would try and cook a souffle yeah wouldn't rise or whatever you know that was ha ha wow that's funny

so but this restaurant has savory souffles and sweet souffles and I went there once and that's interesting because mainly that meal consists of air.

You know,

most of what you're consuming is air.

Yeah, they've absolutely absolutely done you there, haven't they?

Well, no, but it's like flavoured air.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

It's air and egg, isn't it, I suppose?

Some egg.

I love a good souffle.

Do you?

Yeah.

I've talked on the podcast before about being taught to make a raspberry souffle

in Edinburgh by Mark Greenaway.

Yeah.

And he's still got a restaurant in Edinburgh.

And every time I go, there's a different flavour souffle on the dessert menu.

And I have to have it.

He did a sticky toffee one last time and it was exceptional.

What souffle do you remember eating in this restaurant in Paris?

It was a cheese one.

Yeah.

And then after you could have one that they set on fire.

A flambeau souffle.

Yeah.

You were getting everything there.

That's amazing.

Eating all the French stuff all in one.

That's incredible.

Yeah, old work French experience.

Yeah.

Flambeau souffle.

Flambeau souffle.

I mean, I'd say that for a man who's scared of mice, you're playing with fire quite frequently.

You're doing gigs where you're fogging the stage with cheese.

You're getting the cheese souffle.

These mice are going to come flocking.

Oh, right, you're right.

Yeah.

Maybe cheese plays too big a part in my life.

I hadn't thought of that.

Yeah, I was looking out for you, worried about it.

So is it any of those you're going to choose as your main course?

Do you think the cheese souffle would be the winner?

Because actually, more than any other guest we've had, I sense that you don't really want to commit to one.

Do you not like choosing one?

It's almost like I'm just looking at the menu, isn't it, and thinking you're like, I don't know if

I want this one.

No, I think what I will plump for

is a thing that I had not that long ago.

It's up on Holloway Road.

There's this cafe, but I can't remember the name of it.

And they had a vegan kebab.

Now, you wouldn't think that was possible, would you?

No.

But it is.

And I don't really know what the pretend donner meat was, but it was tasty.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, maybe I'd go for that.

It is pretty tasty.

I think the vegan meat substitutes are better when they're doing an impersonation of bad meat.

So with things like donner, like I prefer to eat a vegan donner than because normal donners don't really taste like meat anyway, like from your bog standard kebab shop.

So eating like a vegan donner feels like a weird treat, if you know what I mean.

Yeah, and it's interesting that they thought of doing that, because like you say, it's the bottom of the meat-eating food chain, innit?

So how much kind of glory are you going to get for making that?

But it was good.

There's an amazing Saleriak schwarmer at a place called Rovi in London.

And there's, is it called Beelzebab in Brighton?

Is that what it's called?

Beelzebub?

Beelzebab?

I hope so.

It's called something like that because it's like, it's got they've taken the fact that most of their meat is Seitan.

Yeah.

And then they've made the name as junk food and then they made the name something like Beelzebab.

I think it's Beelzebub.

Well there's Temple of Seitan in London.

There's a few of those,

which are like the vegan fried chicken restaurants.

But I think I prefer Beelzebab as a name.

Yeah.

They've taken it once they're in the case.

I think that's what it's called.

But like, they do good kebab kind of, yeah, Donna vegan stuff.

Pretty good.

What about the name of it?

EZ and Moss.

Thinks Bonito.

That could, yeah, that could be it.

Did you have any sauce on this?

It did have this whitish kind of...

of garlicky.

It was a bit, yeah.

I got told that when I went home.

And your side dish, is this going to be from a completely different school of things?

Probably.

I'm all over the place.

I love how many choices there are.

This is the greatest stuff I like.

Oh, yeah, well.

Best side dishes I've come across recently.

Well, I went to a restaurant in Margate called Sargasso, I think it was called and they had these kind of parmesan fritter things they were like you know like if you've ever had profita rolls at the end of a meal you know that like round bally type things

but they were cheese I'm obsessed aren't you let's face it I didn't realize it I've got a problem

can we not turn this into some kind of like self-help kind of thing about you can wean me off

they were good or a Yorkshire pudding because I am from Yorkshire and that's one thing I mean you would talk about souffé.

Yorkshire pudding is related to a souffé in some way, innit?

I mean, it rises, hopefully.

Yeah.

I was kind of embarrassed that I didn't know how to make one.

So it's over the last kind of four or five years I've been persevering.

And now I'd say I'm not bad.

So I love Yorkshire pudding.

Ed famously has gone on the record many times saying that he hates them.

Really?

It's a very good standard.

It's a surprisingly controversial viewpoint.

Yeah,

because it's wrong.

Well, yeah, well, I wouldn't go as far as saying it's just wrong, wrong, but it surprises me in that it's not got a strong flavour or anything.

So what is it that you particularly object to?

It takes up a lot of real estate on a plate, and it's not got a strong flavour.

So it doesn't earn its place for the amount of space it takes up on a plate.

But if you were to fill it with gravy.

Yes, and then I'd slurp the gravy out of it like it's a big goblet.

Okay.

And then it goes soggy at the bottom.

Yeah, but that...

Yeah, well, you know, obviously.

Obviously, you two have discussed this at length.

Yeah, but you know,

you're never going to change your mind, are you?

But then, you know, you're a very reasonable man, Jarvis.

I don't, James was trying to rile you up.

Yeah,

physically to get it.

You know, I am from Yorkshire, so you're basically committing a heresy

by saying that.

We haven't had someone from Yorkshire step in, weigh in on this on the podcast yet.

We haven't had that.

Therefore, I'm taking the opportunity now to like, we've actually got a Yorkshireman who can say,

well, that you're dissing my national dish.

Although

I I have dissed one of your national dishes.

What's that?

Henderson's Relish.

Hendos.

Yo, Hendos.

I've dissed that on stage in Sheffield and got in trouble.

Yeah, I bet.

A few times.

Did you try to do everything?

Did you choke bottles at you?

Yeah.

Well, the first time,

I didn't know what it was.

Right.

And I was doing some routine about sauces and condiments.

That's the kind of comedian I am.

Yeah, okay.

And someone shouted out Hendos, and I was like, what's that?

And then they started getting very annoyed.

I didn't know what it was.

But in a good-natured way, told me what it was.

Well, first of all, I I said what is it and they said it's not Liam Perrins and that was that was how they chose to first describe it yeah well that's understandable because it's the same colour and the bottle is pretty much the same shapes yeah and it tastes the same no it doesn't

now this no

and you know you must because you must have been made to try it yes yeah it doesn't taste the same liam perennials is is it's almost like a chili sauce it's quite uh hot but um henderson's relish relish is much mellower than that, it's just got a flavour, a particular flavour.

What would you use Henderson's relish for?

What's Hendo's going on?

It's very versatile.

But it often is in a chip shop in

because in a good chip shop in Sheffield, it would be there, you know, next to the vinegar and that, and it's very good on some mushy peas.

Oh, really?

Oh, yeah, it it melds with that in a in a kind of magical way.

It's nice on chips as well, yeah.

Would you put it on a Yorkshire pudding pudding to have the ultimate Yorkshire treat?

Yeah.

You could.

You could.

Yeah, you could do that.

Yeah.

It's very versatile.

Are you tempted to go ultimate Yorkshire for your side dish here?

And go

Yorkshire pudding covered in Hendo's relish.

Yeah, go on then.

One of the last times I was up in Sheffield, there was this band, they kind of do, you know, they play known songs, but they change the lyrics to reflect Yorkshire things.

And one was

they did a song about Henderson's relish great but uh it was to the tune of um cold plays yellow

and it were all endos

the best one that they did that night was you know Depeche Modes

they did that version of your own personal cheeses yeah well no they wrote that song didn't they

and and theirs was

Fine Collection of Cheeses.

Oh dear.

Oh no, it's bad.

Oh no Jarvis.

Now you're singing about cheeses.

A lot of my family live in Sheffield and they're big Sheffield United fans.

Oh dear.

And

apologies.

And

I went to a game with them once and it might have been the same band there was a cover of Penny Lane on, but they changed it to Brammel Lane.

All right, yeah, it could be them.

They're called the Heavily Pregnant Brothers.

I think I would have remembered that.

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Dream drink, which I've got a prediction.

I know what the dream drink's going to be.

I've got no prediction.

I'm going with the flow.

You know what, I think it's going to be Jarvis.

Are you trying to kind of like beam it into my mind?

Yeah.

Well, in a restaurant, I would drink wine.

And again, in this place I went to in Margate, they had orange wine.

And I thought, hmm, not heard of that.

So I tried it and I thought that was really good.

So I would probably go with that.

Yeah.

Was that what you were thinking?

That's not what I was thinking.

Do you remember what sort of orange wine it was?

Do you remember the particular orange wine that you had in Margate?

Delicious.

Delicious orange wine.

It's the dream restaurant.

It was delicious.

No, I can't remember.

I think it was from France.

Yes.

That narrows it down.

It was in it, but it's a bit of a revelation, honestly.

I think it was made from grapes.

Grapes were involved in the colours.

I think so.

Yeah, yeah.

Marmalade grapes.

And that's what orange wine tastes like.

It's liquid marmalade, the real good stuff.

No, no.

Yeah, but I think.

No, that's like dessert wine.

You're drinking liquid marmalade.

Orange wine, you're thinking sometimes the really funky stuff tastes like a sort of farmyard.

It's got that farmiardy flavour, really sort of organic tasting.

It was dry.

It wasn't sweet or anything.

Yeah, it was good.

I thought you were going to choose a cup of Welcome to the Peppermint Jungle.

Oh, tea.

Yeah.

Well, that's a nice idea.

That would be more after the meal.

But you're referring to the fact that when I released, well, when Jarviz, which I've got a group which confusingly has my name, but it is actually a band.

But when we released our last album, we did a collaboration with a tea company, Dragonfly Teas, and they did this mint blend tea, which ended up being called Peppermint Jungle.

And I was really pleased with that.

Because, I mean, apart from the thought that it tasted nice, then they...

allowed us to like put a line from the from some of the songs on the tab you know because like you know when you get that yogi tea and it'll have like something like you know the highest achievement is calm or something like that you know I don't know they say things like that yeah it's quite I like the fact that you make your cup of tea and then you look at that and think oh yeah yeah more chill that version of the penguin joke yeah yeah I suppose so yeah or or like getting a fortune cookie and you know you will have a long life or whatever nice nice idea so I guess they're called affirmations aren't they or whatever so they're on the tab so i i was very happy with that um have you tried peppermint jungle tea yeah i was i was visiting adam betts all right yeah at his home and uh he's like uh running me down the selection of stuff that he had and he said and this is like you know is he told me the story behind it i was like i'll try that obviously adam was drinking like a crate of vodka or something

uh but like yeah

i was having

a lovely uh peppermint jungle tea very nice yeah yeah i liked it but yeah as i say i think that's it's nice to have a mint tea at the end of a meal

that kind of settles the stomach yeah yes yeah that's my favorite thing i i next time we do our dream

why are pointing at me because i should have done last time

i did our dream menus on here once and i should have said and maybe i did say it but i should have said that for the end i want fresh mint tea because that is my favorite way to end a meal no i think you said at the end of the meal we go and sit by the fire together and get hammered yeah probably yeah but like uh i think having a fresh mint tea at the end of a meal is the best so So good.

I prefer the orange wine choice.

Yeah.

I think the orange wine is a great choice.

And also it still freaks people out.

If I've got a bottle of orange wine and I'm like, have a look at this and pour it in.

It's like you've done some sort of magic.

They don't know what it is.

Yeah.

Because I suppose I chose it because of the novelty value.

I thought, oh, I've never heard of orange wine before, but then it actually tasted really good.

Because sometimes red wine, I like red wine, but you do run the risk of falling asleep before the end of the meal if you have too much,

whatever.

White wine can be a bit like vinegary.

I've had grey wine.

What?

What?

Yeah.

It wasn't really grey.

It was like

a really pale rose.

Do they call it grey wine?

Yeah, well, Vangri, yeah.

It was in, somebody took me to Tangier once.

You had it there.

There you go.

Grey wine.

You heard it here first.

Yeah, grey wine.

I think your first glass of rose is the best glass of rose you'll ever have, and it never is as nice as that ever again, is that?

I disagree.

But the first time I had a rose, I was was like wow this is a game changer yeah but you just got to make sure it stays cold yeah even to the extent that maybe you might ask for some ice cubes so you can keep putting them in but then sometimes you get funny looks for that

whatever but yeah it's got to be cold otherwise it's it's not so good i love it i think the first rose i had was probably quite bad and now you get the good stuff hate to be basic about this but whispering angel

the sun comes out i have my first bottle of whispering angel of the season it's whispering angel day i shout what what's this it's whispering angel day

this is the first time on the podcast i've not understood a word or so the angel goes shh what are you talking about

it's known as as lady petrel that

and it revs this lady up yeah

this lady starts chugging eddie petrel yeah

so so what is it so sorry there's there's a day

there's a day each year where you wake up and with a sort of

summery that first day where it feels a bit summery Okay.

And then, you know, I've got a buy some whispering angel, get it out of the fridge on like a hot day doing a barbecue or whatever, pour a glass of whispering angel, I'm like, summer's begun.

Oh, the angels are whispering.

Is there a food or drink that makes you feel like summer's begun, Jarvis?

An ice cream.

Yeah.

You know, like that.

Good on you.

Draft ice cream, I call it.

I mean, it isn't, obviously, but you know, that

comes out of the thing, yeah.

You know why that makes such sense to me, the draft ice cream?

Because it reminds me of the Boddington's adverts.

Do you want to flaken that love?

Oh, do you want to flaken that love?

I was about to say that as well before.

Yeah, as soon as you said draft, I thought do you want to flaken that?

It was Melanie Sykes, was it?

Melanie Sykes.

Yeah.

Do you want to flaken that love?

Yeah.

Do you remember?

Do you remember John?

I know what you're saying.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I know what you're saying, yeah.

So, I mean, moving on maybe to your dream dessert.

Is ice cream featuring?

Yeah, again,

I've got a few options here.

The most unusual dessert I came across was in in a restaurant in New York that isn't there anymore.

There was a place called The Four Seasons, and it was quite an amazing place.

You know, quite kind of sophisticated, loads of mid-century art on the wall.

But then when it came...

Square plates?

Not square plates, no.

No way.

No, I wouldn't have been in there.

But the dessert was

candy floss.

That was their speciality, was like a kind of...

When I first saw, you know, it been taken over to something, I thought, what the hell is that?

Because you see this this big kind of like dome of strange looking stuff and it was it was candy floss yeah just candy floss candy floss well with kind of like some dark bits in it oh yeah yeah but yeah i mean they call it cotton candy don't they yeah but uh yeah i don't know how that had evolved but that was a kind of signature dessert I wouldn't choose that.

I just wanted to show off and say that I'd been in a restaurant that had candy floss.

I think that sounds amazing.

Yeah, it does sound good.

There was an episode of Walking Dead the other day,

which is a,

I hated The Walking Dead, and I've watched every episode.

And

there was an episode where a little girl tries candy floss for the first time.

She's been born in the zombie apocalypse.

She's never had candy floss before.

Then she ends up in some settlement where somehow they've managed to make candy floss.

Well, that's it.

I mean, that's the first priority.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And she tries it and her eyes nearly pop out of her head out of the delicious it is.

She can't believe it.

But everything about the show annoys me these days.

So as soon as she acted on wild for the candy floss, I was like, oh, shut up.

Stop it.

Eating the goddamn candy floss.

I'd say surely one of the only benefits of a zombie apocalypse is kids don't get addicted to refined sugar, right?

I think so.

Yeah.

Let's get really healthy.

And then everyone has a chance to be a bit more healthy and not have things like candy floss knocking around.

No, they finally found just a settlement that is just like anywhere else.

They managed to keep the zombies out.

I have seen the first two seasons of that show.

I'm pretty sure every season they find somewhere that's just like everywhere else and it it turns out that it's a bit weird.

Yeah, kind of.

But I mean, for a while, there was a period of time where it was one of the best TV shows I'd ever seen.

And now it is an absolute joke.

And because it's the final season, I'm like, well, I better just finish it.

Yeah.

But it doesn't feel great.

It doesn't feel great.

I can't join in here because I've not watched it.

If you're scared of mice, don't watch this.

Zombie show, even more scary.

You don't want to see it.

You don't want to zombies across the exit side.

What would be your have you binged any TV shows during the pandemic or anything like that that you would say?

Well, I was a bit behind the curve, I suppose, because myself and my girlfriend, we watched The Sopranos, because I'd never seen that when it first came out.

I've never seen it.

And now we've got a dog called Tony.

Great.

Because we got the dog not long after we'd finished watching it, and so we were still obsessed with Tony's Soprano.

So now the dog's got to kind of live up to that name.

What breed of dog is it?

It's a Chihuahua.

The most opposite from Tony Soprano you could possibly be as a dog.

I don't know.

He's making a good effort.

Yeah.

Jarvis, I'd absolutely love to see you walking a chihuahua.

Yeah.

That's a bit close to a mouse, though.

You want to be careful.

No, no, it's quite...

If you see that at the corner of your eye.

I'll show you a picture of him later.

But to go back to the dessert, I know this sounds boring, but rice pudding is nice.

Now, I flipped out at a guest in the past for having rice pudding.

Sorry.

I don't feel.

No, just so you know.

I wouldn't have jam in it.

I feel absolutely fine about it now, but I know that I'll be called a hypocrite by the listeners.

Come on then.

So

tell me what you're doing.

Well, bearing in mind, the guest who chose it last time, her main course was a plowman's lunch.

And I'd already got annoyed about how bland the plowman's lunch was as a main course.

And then the dessert being a rice pudding pushed me over the edge.

So it was more that I was teetering already rather than the rice pudding on its own annoying me because I do enjoy a rice pudding.

I quite enjoy a rice pudding.

I'll actually buy one of those Muller cold rice puddings from the shops.

I forget they exist.

The Mullah pots of rice pudding that's got like, might have some jam in it.

Yeah.

And I completely forget about them.

And then every now and again, you see them, remember they exist, I get really excited.

And I buy usually the vanilla one if it's there.

It's got like a custody kind of thing in it.

And they are good.

So I'm not going to manufacture the rage.

I also enjoy, now and again, if we get a delivery from the Turkish restaurant around the corner from us, they'll throw in a rice pudding.

Oh, really?

And as in a pot, they're going to pour it on top of everything.

But it's got like cinnamon on top and stuff.

It's really rich and tasty.

Are you thinking cold rice pudding or hot rice pudding?

No, I'm glad you've asked me that question.

I would prefer to go with hot.

You know, I think...

Cold can work.

Yeah.

It can work.

But I think hot is more interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah, the cinnamon and maybe there could be a couple of raisins in there.

Yeah.

What about that?

Just a couple.

Good.

So you're playing Hunt the Raisin?

Three or four.

Why not go crazy?

It's a dream restaurant.

Yeah.

Caveat, maybe.

No.

No.

Oh, God, that would be horrible.

You wouldn't like that.

No, that would make it like that.

What's that stuff?

You sometimes have it in a Chinese restaurant.

Is it called congee?

Konji, yeah, like a rice porridge, right?

We played in Hong Kong once and we encountered that there.

Yeah.

Somebody compared it.

I'm not even going to say what they compared it.

We can use our imaginations.

Yeah.

You can imagine

some...

Male fluid.

I think saying that is worse than actually just saying the word.

Yeah.

I'm not going to say it.

I'd rather you just said a bottle of cum

than male fluid.

Male fluid.

Tiptoeing around it and then saying male fluid.

Was when you encountered it, was someone making it just off stage while you were playing?

No.

Yeah.

No.

Alex James again.

Fogging the stage with his scent.

Foggs any stage, Alex James.

So

is it rice pudding you're going to go with the cinnamon and the raisins?

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah, I think so.

Do you want a little sometimes when you get rice pudding in a restaurant, they might put a little biscuit with it or something or a shortbread or something crunchy on the side.

Would you like anything on the side of your no?

No, no.

No.

I mean, they can put it there, but I just leave it.

It would be weird to pick that for your dream meal for them to put something on the side and then just leave it.

But you know, the thing is, I've chosen these things for a meal, but what I generally like is when somebody else chooses a food.

Right.

You know, like when you go out, especially if there's a lot of you, and you're thinking, you have got this rigmarole of like, oh, he's having that oil and then you got to think, oh, maybe they're going to order something better than what I'm going to order.

So then if somebody just goes, I've been here before, this is good, this is good, this is good, and then it just all comes

and then that's great.

Yeah.

And then maybe you might discover something that you've never eaten before.

Yeah.

And so I really like that.

I don't consider myself to be, you know, somebody who knows a lot about food.

I I I've only really started to learn about it a bit since I've been going out with my girlfriend because she's really into food so she's kind of educated me a bit.

And as I say, I I don't think music and food go together.

So it's always good when somebody kind of teaches you something about it or you discover something new.

How far before a gig will you eat?

Oh, that's a good question.

You've got to leave at least two hours.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Fully digest.

Oh, God, because it's horrible if you go on stage and and you and you feel like you you jump up and down, you you're gonna feel bilious or something.

It's horrible.

Yeah.

It just feels sluggish if you've if you've eaten too near to going on stage.

I feel the same.

James will eat walking on stage.

Really?

And you've eaten on stage before as well, haven't you?

I've eaten on stage, yeah.

And just like, I I have no

respect for my craft or my audience or

no boundaries or anymore.

Yeah, no.

Because people will leave the ice cream on the stage and stuff, right?

Yeah, people sometimes, because I go on about how much I like ice cream, especially on this podcast, oh, you turn up somewhere and walk on stage and they've left like a a tub of Ben and Jerry's and a spoon on there or something like that and just think pretty funny just to eat it while I'm while I'm doing my shit.

See, I would find that very disturbing because I'd be aware all the way through the concert or the or the performance that it was melting.

Yeah.

And you're thinking that's what a waste that is.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, I've had that on as a T V show where was that Big Fat Quiz of the Year?

And they such a long record that they go, you can have some food if if you want and i've said a tub of ice cream just for a joke and then they have it in a freezer bag but it's you're looking at and it really is melting fast so i've eaten an entire tub of ice cream like really quick like peanut butter ben and jerry's and then i i felt like i was on drugs i was just sitting there like everything was like going speeded up and slowing down and i couldn't really keep up with the quiz anymore because i'd really gone too too hard on the ice cream so yeah because people used to throw jelly babies on the stage when the beatles played supposedly

I've read that in a book somewhere.

I think once in an interview, they'd said that they liked jelly babies.

So then people

popped them on stage.

But I'm trying to think, I don't think we've ever had food thrown on stage.

And I wouldn't eat it anyway.

No, it's that odd thing, isn't it?

A food delivered by a complete stranger that you've not asked for.

Yeah, I mean, nowadays I might not eat it, maybe.

I don't know.

Especially

melted ice cream.

Yeah, yeah.

Or for a while, people would put whole cabbages on stage when I was doing gigs because if it wasn't a joke of something that that happened to me, and

maybe this was quite wasteful, I shouldn't have done it, but I would just kick them off the stage.

That could be dangerous because a cabbage is quite a dense

lettuce.

At least would be safe.

Cabbage would be a good thing.

If you could explode, it would be quite nice.

Yeah, but cabbage, I'd just football kick it off.

Yeah, you'd have that as a starter, wouldn't you?

I could kick it into the wings.

I wouldn't kick it into the audience, Jarvis.

Oh, right, good.

Because I say, a cabbage could make you

full speed.

Yeah, no,

looking at that could break your nose.

That's a broken nose if you get a cabbage cabbage sauce.

Full pace.

No, I'm not doing that.

Good.

I'm glad.

I'm kicking them into the wings.

I stopped doing that when I walked on stage.

Once there's a cabbage there, I kicked it into the wings.

And then someone on the front row burst into tears and walked out because they put the cabbage there.

It would be a nice, fun little joke.

And

they didn't like my reaction.

So I felt pretty bad about that.

Yep, your audience are pathetic.

Jovis, I want to read your menu back to you now, see how you feel about it.

I'll probably feel like instant indigestion or something.

But yeah go on okay you would like lightly sparkling water the perfect amount of bubbles in there popcoms or bread you want melbatose with a tiny scraping of butter starter shrimp cocktail main course a vegan kebab from the place on holloway road side dish ultimate yorkshire yorkshire pudding with henderson's relish drink orange wine and dessert a rice pudding with cinnamon and raisins and then maybe a mint tea yeah i think mint tea we yeah we i think we've got to uh round it all off with that and that'll sort any information for the peppermint jungle up.

Yeah.

You feel good about that?

Yeah, I think

that's okay.

I think it felt okay.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I'm very happy.

I'm satisfied.

I feel quite satisfied.

I'd like that.

I'm imagining that I've eaten it.

You feel good, you don't feel too, but you're not, you wouldn't

feel good.

You just go home.

You might go to a disco.

Yeah?

Yeah.

If you want to go to a disco.

There aren't any discos anymore, though, are they?

I'd get you some boil-in-the-bag cod before you go to the disco, but that's the thing.

That's a rave.

We don't know the difference, Jarvis.

We don't know the difference between a rave and a disc.

Squares.

Thank you very much for coming to the Dream Restaurant, Jarvis.

Well, thanks.

Thanks.

Thank you for the service was impeccable.

I'll be leaving a tip.

Well, there we are.

Jarvis Cocker, James.

Wow, we did it.

We did it, man.

We interviewed Jarvis Cocker and it was great.

And he didn't say cold spinach leaves once, as was our fear.

No.

We were very scared it was going to be cold spinach leaves for every course.

We'd have to chuck him out.

And we wouldn't get to interview Jarvis Cocker.

But we did, and he was lovely, and it was great.

And I loved it.

I loved it too.

His book is out on the 26th of May.

It's called Good Pop, Bad Pop.

Very difficult to say because my mouth goes for cop.

Yeah.

I know that's the pun.

Yep.

But my mouth is so used to saying good cop, bad cop.

Yeah, you say it a lot.

Good pop, bad pop.

We say it whenever we're going to interview someone.

We say good cop, bad, bad cop.

No, we say good cop, bad pop, don't we?

Oh, God.

But that is being published by Vintage, and it's out on the 26th of May, and I cannot wait to read it.

Brilliant.

Let's not forget that my tour is happening in the autumn again.

I've done the first leg.

I'm doing another leg, James, Ed Gamble Electric, edgamble.co.uk for tickets.

Including, if you live in London, I am doing a show at the Hammersmith Apollo on October 22nd, and you would be most welcome to that.

Yes, absolutely.

And also, I'll be touring Scandinavia in September.

Thanks again to Jarvis Cocker for coming on the podcast.

We will see you again next week.

Goodbye.

Goodbye.

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Oh, hi, James.

Have you heard the news?

Oh, yeah, go on.

You and I are modern boys because the off-menu podcast is now on YouTube.

This is embarrassing.

Why is it embarrassing, man?

You love YouTube.

I love watching clips on YouTube.

Sure.

Now people can watch clips of Off Menu on YouTube and full episodes.

But it's embarrassing, man.

It's not embarrassing at all.

It's really cool.

We're on YouTube with the great and good.

The coolest people in the world are on youtube me you logan paul who's logan paul the dad from succession

at off menu podcast that's what benito's calling us now and we're on tick tock this is embarrassing man it's not embarrassing man we're cool we're like olivia rodrigo and ed people have been asking us battering us bothering us actually they want to watch the stephen graham supercut from the stephen graham episode so they can see all of his reactions to us everything that he did or benito has bent to their whims and he's going to put it on YouTube.

He's going to do it.

Follow us at Off Menu Official on TikTok, at Off Menu Podcast, on YouTube.

You can watch clips from the podcast, and on YouTube, you can watch full video episodes.

People have been asking for it, and you're finally getting it.

Full video episodes.

So you can see every single nuance on our little faces.