Ep 102: Rafe Spall

James, huge news from the world of off-menu and indeed the world of the world.

Yes.

Ever heard of the Royal Albert Hall?

I have.

We've done live shows there.

And guess what?

We're doing more live shows there next year.

Sure, a lot of them are sold out already.

But we thought, hey, throw these guys a bone.

Let's put on one final Royal Albert Hall show in that run.

The show will be on Monday, the 16th of March.

It's going to be a tasting menu, a returning guest coming back, receiving the menu of another previous guest.

Those shows have been a lot of fun.

We cannot wait to do them live.

Who will we pull out of our little magic bag?

You'll have to come along on the 16th of March to find out.

If I'm correct in thinking, presale tickets go on pre-sale on the 10th of September.

Pre-sale tickets are 10th of September at 10 a.m.

And then the general sale is 12th of September at 10 a.m.

So if you miss out on the pre-sale, don't forget general sale is only two days later.

The day in between is for reflecting.

Get your tickets from royalalberthall.com Hall.com or offmenupodcast.co.uk

Suffs, the new musical has made Tony award-winning history on Broadway.

We demand to be heard.

Winner, best score.

We demand to be seen.

Winner, best book.

We demand to be quality.

It's a theatrical masterpiece that's thrilling, inspiring, dazzlingly entertaining, and unquestionably the most emotionally stirring musical this season.

Suffs, playing the Orpheum Theater, October 22nd through November 9th.

Tickets at BroadwaySF.com.

Welcome to the most delicious podcast on the internet, off menu with Ed Gamble and James A.

Caster.

But beware, don't eat the liver.

It's deadly poisonous.

Hello, James.

Wow, I did not see that twist coming in the intro read.

Very scary.

People who have never listened to this podcast before are now going to be quite scared.

They're going to feel a horror podcast.

But it's not a horror podcast.

It's not a horror podcast.

Although we should do a horror podcast, me and you.

Yeah.

I think we could do quite a good one.

Goth menu.

We both like.

Goth menu.

Yeah.

Very

good.

I'm trying to think of things to add to it, but I don't think I can improve on that.

Yeah, let's just leave it where it is.

It's a perfect joke from a perfect guy.

But this is not a horror podcast.

Tis a food podcast, James!

We invite a guest into the dream restaurant every week and we ask them their favourite ever, starter, main course, dessert, side dish, and drink, not in that order.

And this week, our special guest is Rafe Spall.

Rafe Spall!

Rafe Spall, a brilliant actor, an actor of much repute to James.

He's done so much brilliant stuff.

We love Rafe Spall, so do you.

That's why you're listening to this podcast.

It's very exciting to have Rafe Spall on the podcast.

But what food will he choose?

And will he choose the secret ingredient, which will mean that even though he's Rafe's Ball, we will kick him out of the dream restaurant.

And this week's secret ingredient is dandelion and burdock

and burdock.

What is it?

What is that drink?

I don't like it.

Nope, me neither.

I think I've only tasted it once, maybe.

Yeah, I know what a dandelion is.

Still not clear on what a burdock is.

Don't think that a drink should be made out of him.

No, sir.

No, sir.

Thank you very much.

It's quite an old school drink, isn't it?

It's something you're

might hear about, like, your granddad might go, oh, I remember when I was a little boy,

I had my little shorts on, running over from school for me, cold, dandelion, burdock.

Yep.

Exactly.

That's a very good impression of a granddad.

Yeah.

And you hear those stories, and it doesn't make you go, oh, I wish I was a kid when granddad was a kid.

No, that sounds horrible.

It just sounds like they've gone to a field.

or like a garden that's overgrown and just pulled up all the weeds and all the different stuff, put it in a sieve and strained it and then shook it up a bit and gone this is a fizzy drink this will do oh it was such a treat back in my day daddy burdock it was a perfect little drink to have with your boiled stomach

i like this character yeah what's the character called grand granddad ed granddad ed yeah granddad ed what do you like to eat granddadded well of course the boiled stomach's very nice mashed sweet do you like boiled sweets I love boiled sweets.

I'm always sucking on a boiled sweet.

My wife tried to hide them, but I found them again.

They were in the VHS cases.

Oh, very, very sneaky wife.

Sneaky wife.

So, if Race Paul says Dandelion and Burdock, yes, we're gonna kick him out, but we'll love the restaurant.

We're welcoming Grand Dad Edge to the restaurant.

Yes, Grandad Ed will be there instead doing his dream menu.

I think we all know what dessert's gonna be.

Yeah,

but hopefully, Racebo will not be kicked out of the dream restaurant because hopefully, he'll be trying his best, which is a coincidence because trying is the name of his sitcom, which is on Apple TV Plus.

It's It's the second season and it's streaming from the 14th of May.

You can get the first season now.

Yes, fantastic.

Very exciting stuff.

And Ed, that was such a good link into that.

Really, really,

you're on your game today.

You're on your game.

I'm on form.

I'm on form.

Well, let's hope that form maintains itself when we hear the off-menu menu of Rafe Spall.

Rafe Spall.

Welcome, Rafe Spall, to the Dream Restaurant.

Look out.

Welcome, Rafe Spall to the Dream Restaurant.

We've been expecting you for some time.

Well, I'm so pleased to be here.

It's very nice to have you here, Rafe.

Apologies for my internet cutting out there at that inopportune moment.

That's like being welcomed to a restaurant and they immediately slam the door in your face as soon as you get to the porch.

So apologies.

You ever been refused entry?

You ever been refused entry to a restaurant or a cafe or an establishment, Rafe?

Yeah, you know, this sounds apocryphal, but you know that thing where you get turned down from a nightclub because you've got trainers on and then you put your socks over your trainers?

No,

I've done that before.

No, I've never heard of that.

I don't know about that thing.

Because there used to be a thing, because I came of sort of like my teens.

I grew up in southeast London in the 90s and at that time UK garage was a big thing.

right yeah and especially on the old kent road uh that was the sort of the beating heart of of the UK Garage scene.

Right.

And Garage, their whole thing was like sexy and stylish, right?

You had to come looking nice.

Yeah.

So a lot of the things would be like, no caps, no trainers, no attitude, right?

Those were the three things about not getting into a club.

And sometimes, well, one time, I didn't actually do it, so I'm using some license here.

A friend of mine turned up with trainers on and probably a little bit of attitude.

And we and we were turned away and then someone said just take your black socks off put them over your trainers

and he did and we sailed on into cookies and cream garage night cookies and cream wow cookies and cream food related immediately exactly

see that story did come round

you knew what you were doing were the bouncers letting that slide did they know the sock trick or were they just not looking properly in those days they didn't blink they just thought he had big shoes on they just thought he was.

Big woolly shoes.

Big, exactly.

Big, fluffy shoes.

He thought none the wiser.

He thought he'd gone home and got changed into some respectable shoes.

Alas, no, it was a roost.

If someone was to make a film about the 90s UK garage scene, I mean, we already know you definitely want to be in it.

I do.

It's your upbringing.

It's where you come from.

But, like, who would you want to play in that film?

If you look back at the garage scene, all the big names in it, all the big players, who would you want to play well two local celebrities where I grew up were two MCs called Nikki S and Nike oh yeah and I remember once I was really I was in this place called the paradise bar in broccoli and nikki s had just done a storm in set people were really sort of in awe of of him and he came walking towards me and he made eye contact with me and he put his fist up to fist bump me yeah and i put my fist up i thought he knows who i am and he sailed straight past me and fist bumped someone behind me oh no I would say Nikki S gets his fist bumps ready too early in that case

that's not your fault exactly that is not your fault but but the sort of UK garage voice I don't know if you maybe you don't if you weren't that sort of au fa with

UK garage radio in the 90s it was that sort of like ladies crew bubbling fresh you know that sort of like shout out to all the ladies in the venue it's gonna be a roadblock event it was like no one has ever spoken like that and i don't know why i don't know how they settled on that voice as the voice

to get people jazzed up about the garage night who was the first guy to do that voice and at what point did everyone go yeah well we're gonna stick with this we're gonna stick with that yeah yeah listen we should probably do a rate we should probably do an advert for for this club night

well how do you even sound on an advert ladies and let me tell you it's gonna be a banging night what does and what does bubbling bubbling fresh mean?

Because I've heard people say that before.

Well, bubbling is dancing.

And fresh is real fresh dancing.

Yeah.

Oh, I see.

Speaking of voices, I didn't know what you really sounded like, Rafe, until just now.

Are you surprised?

Yeah.

I've seen you in a lot of films, a lot of TV.

And I think I've only heard you speak like this in Short of the Dead.

Yeah.

I don't think I've heard you use this voice anywhere else.

I'm literally putting it on now.

This is not how I speak.

I speak like that garage voice.

that's how i usually talk how was your day at school talking like that is that to your kids

yeah what are you thinking for dinner um

ladies lady no this is this is how i sound yeah have you always been good at voices because i'm obsessed with people who are good at voices i can't do any voices except my own i can't do accents anyone who can i think it's amazing and don't feel pressured rafe into doing your repertoire or anything because he always does this when we have actors on he gets all excited james if someone said to you, you will die if you don't do one accent

and you could back yourself to do one,

what would the one be that you would back yourself to do?

Oh, God.

Can you have a go at the UK garage voice?

Bubble in fresh, ladies.

Ladies.

Bubble in fresh.

That sounds more like thieves do not operate at this fairground.

That was more like that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It did sound like James Acaster at a garage club night.

There's always a hint of Acaster in everything that you do, I think.

James, where did you grow up?

Where's your accent from?

Ketterin, Northamptonshire.

Ketterin.

I did a play set in Northamptonshire once and someone tried to get me.

No, it was not Kinky Boots, alas.

It was a play at the Royal Court called Alaska.

But they tried to get us to do Northampton accents and it's almost impossible because it's so like

nothing.

Do you know what I mean?

But it's got a bit of that.

It gets towards sort of East Anglian or something weird.

Do you know what I mean?

mean it's quite difficult to get to get your get your head around it's a pick and mix of everywhere else which is why it's so mad I can't do other accents because we we take all the lazy parts of everyone else's accent and we do all of them in one voice so I don't really pronounce my THs I drop a lot of my G's and my T's say AR sounds up the side of my mouth like a farmer yeah do all that stuff but I can't adapt to other regions you are like a farmer actually I am like a farmer when I started out in stand-up some comedians used to make fun of the way I said Mars bar because I said it out the side of my mouth.

Mars Bar.

Ed, how's your accents?

I don't I'm not sure.

They're probably fine.

They're better than James's.

Ed's good.

Do Edwin Coffee.

Oh, no, that's terrible.

It's because my American accent's quite poor, I'd say.

I can do cartoonish versions of some British accents.

Got him.

It is a tough one.

Probably the toughest.

Northeastern.

I can do that in a cartoonish way, man.

Yeah, that's good.

Ain't nobody.

What about Welsh?

Oh, Welsh.

You need a word to get into it, don't you?

Yes, hello.

I'm from Wales.

That's good.

You've got a bit of Tom Jones there and all.

Aye.

One more.

What about

here's one that I can't get anywhere near?

Northern Irish.

Northern Irish, I'm not too bad at because my granddad was from Larne.

You enjoyed saying the word Larne, then, didn't you?

You liked saying Larne.

Yeah, you like that.

So if someone asked you to audition and play a Northern Irish person, Rafe, you would have to say no.

I probably would have to say no.

I've thought about this.

It seems to be, and one of my best friends is Northern Irish, but it seems to me I can get the

rhythm of it, which is

Yes.

But you can't do all your lines like that, can you?

No, I can't.

You can't do them all like that.

Wouldn't wash.

People wouldn't like it.

Imagine if you got offered the part, you told them you could do the accent, you get to a read-through table read, and it comes to your first line.

How long do you think you'd last at the table read if you just did all your lines like that before they just said you have to leave?

People will probably laugh the first time you did it because it was like a hilarious, very brave joke.

Yeah.

But then

you got that guy's got some balls to pull off a joke on his first line at a table read good on him right yeah but then if you carried on you'd be asked to leave i actually was once fired after a table read oh i've never shared this before did you try and get back in with your socks over your shoes

very good no it didn't it didn't it If only I'd thought of that.

No,

it was for a radio play.

And I've never done any, because I didn't go to drama school and I've never done any Shakespeare or like a verse reading or that sort of thing.

And it was for like some sort of like John Webster play.

And I went along and there was Rory Kinnear was there.

Do you know that actor?

Yeah.

Who's perhaps one of our finest classical actors?

I thought he fucked the pig.

Yeah, he fucked the pig, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

In real life, no, in

Black Mirror.

And they're all like the best classical actors of their generation.

And I bought a York notes before going to this thing to try and work it out.

And I did the read through.

And afterwards, the director said, what's the problem?

What happened there?

What's the problem?

And I said, I did tell you I've never done this sort of thing before.

And he said, I think it's best you leave.

I said, but my bag is still in the other room where everyone else is.

And I had to go in and get my bag.

Can you imagine?

When you went in to get your bag, did you pretend like you were still in the play?

I think I might have said something about a family emergent, an emergency.

Yeah.

Just garbled something about an emergency

bag and run out.

But they knew.

They knew what had happened.

So they all knew in the room when you went to get your bag that you'd been fired.

I think they knew it was going very poorly for me in this read-through.

And then I think they were told after I'd left that I had in fact been fired.

Oh man, that's painful.

Have you ever been fired?

It's difficult to be fired doing stand-up comedy a lot of the time because they tend to be one-off gigs.

If you're fired from a stand-up comedy gig, it's gone very badly.

If you're halfway through the set and they're like, no, this isn't working out.

It's hard for me.

You're going to have to go.

Yeah.

I had that.

I mean, I may have told this story on the podcast before, but I had a gig once where it was going really badly and the audience were just all talking over me.

It's Bedlam.

and there was someone in the front who really hated me who was screaming at me how shit I was and being yo shit and all this and then the guy who owned the venue went over to security and pointed at this guy on the front row and went he needs to go but guy was doing so badly that the security guard thought he was pointing at me

so the security just walked up and so this guy's yelling at me on the front going you are shit you're not even fucking funny and then i saw the security guard coming up behind him and i was like cavalry's arrived you're about to get chucked out you piece of shit but so i let him shout at me and then the security guy just walked past this guy up onto the stage right up to me and he went you need to go and uh and I was like okay fine I mean I don't like this anyway and I left and then they made me go back on and then explained to them what had happened what did that bring him back round no it did not it went worse because I obviously I said oh I'm if I'm being chucked out the audience cheer I go off stage the manager comes up to me and says that was a mistake I was like yeah I'm pretty sure it's a mistake but I'm happy to just ride it out he's like no no I need you to go back on and so I went back on and told them what had happened and they still don't like me.

And the guy on the front went, I thought they'd sent you to get a proper comedian and all this.

Oh mate.

And then I made this is a big mistake, but I did it.

I went, they did send me to get a proper comedian and it's you.

So everyone welcome this guy to the stage.

So then I gave him the mic.

He went on stage.

I sat in his seat because they're already, you know, a pack of wolves.

So he goes on and they give him a a little chance and he says some he says some joke at the top, doesn't work.

And then they really turn on him.

It it gets really ugly.

And then he starts panicking and turning to me and trying to hand me back the mic.

And I just shook my head and sat there and went, No, this is your gig now, which is a very unprofessional thing to do, Rafe.

And it just got worse and worse until the whole place was

not really a gig anymore, actually.

It was a bit of a riot.

Did you feel good about that, or did you feel, did you begin to feel guilty when it was happening?

I felt good when I shook my head at him, and then when it descended into this is now

unwin-backable, and none of us can come back from this, I felt really bad for me.

You were the equivalent of, as Danny Dyer put it, in Nice with your trotters up.

I was in Nice with my Trots up.

I'd say that's being fired.

You definitely got fired there.

I got fired.

But Rafe, you haven't been fired from trying, of course.

Oh, no.

Very excited that there's a second series.

Yeah, me too.

Where did we leave your character in series one?

And what's changed?

The first season is about a couple who try and have a baby together, but they're not able to naturally conceive so they decide to adopt and then the whole first season is about them being approved um for adoption and now it's about them getting matched with a kid lots of bittersweet moments ensue it's about something and it's also funny and the more i do stuff i i only want to be in things that are funny because everything's funny and you know i i've i've done like ibsen and shit like at the national theater a few years ago and even that should be funny it's like even if there's if there's if there is a laugh to be had let's have it and it's a crime not to there there has been very few moments in my life where some form of comedy hasn't been wrought from it and that's the sort of work i want to do and this reflects that sometimes when you go and see like a proper serious play and the whole thing is serious but there's like the occasional comedic line in there it gets such a massive laugh because people aren't expecting it out of nowhere and then as a comedian i'm sat there absolutely seeing because i'm yeah it really makes it makes comedians so angry theatre crowds like laughing at tiny jokes because everyone's so tense all the time in the theater I don't know that's how I feel when I go watch a play I'm so worried for everyone involved and then if it's serious and there's one little joke and everyone's like oh thank god for that we're all here we're alive Do you know what?

I had my first, I mean, I'm embarrassed saying it to you, but I did a one-person play at the National Theatre last year, right, called Death of England.

And I watched hours and hours and hours of stand-up.

Like, I'm a huge stand-up fan anyway, right?

I love it.

So I watched everything and everyone.

And I had my first taste of what that would be like to do stand-up comedy as an actor.

And there was a lot of like audience participation and talking to people and improvising and stuff.

And I have to say,

easy.

It was easy.

Turns out bloody easy.

No, no, it was a no.

It gave me even more respect.

But what I did realize is, again, from a layman's point of view, and I say this with my head bowed, is the sort of power that you have in speaking to going back to your heckler thing.

And I know that people probably always bore onto you about heclas and stuff but like the amount of power that you have as the person on stage if someone says anything ain't got to be that good you come back people are generally on your side yes yeah right is that is that true yeah i think that's fair and also the audience knows instinctively that anything you say back is in the moment and unique and people are so much more on board with anything they feel is special to that night right that's interesting also rafe you've learned very quickly a very key role in stand-up a good thing to remember is that the whole audience is on your side it's a big lesson yeah that i only learned when you said it just then.

So I've never learned,

yeah.

James, James sort of takes the opposite uh way of doing things when he walks on.

He's like, Oh, god, they're all it's all insecurities and stuff, innit?

But yeah, yeah, but you're, but you're going, but you're of the level now where everyone's coming to see your shows, though.

So, so everyone is on side, right?

People are coming to see you, then you're not you are talking out of your ass.

That is not the case, it is.

It's the case in each group are there to see me.

James sees it as more enemies.

Yes.

That's what he sees big audiences as.

They all bring their mates who don't know me.

But yeah,

it's all in my head most of the time.

And I should have that approach of going, they all want you to succeed, even the ones who don't know who you are.

They want you to do well because they don't want to be in an awkward situation where they're watching someone bomb.

No, exactly.

No, but I get that.

I get it.

And I have a similar thing sometimes when I do plays.

And because, you know, I mean, you know what it's like.

An audience exists as a sort of organic thing unto itself.

And certain bits that get massive laughs, usually one night won't for whatever reason.

Then you'll get a strange laugh in another place, and you can end up despising the audience.

And I get it when I'm like, well, there's actually a big laugh coming up, but you're not going to fucking get it.

So I'm going to,

I'm not even going to, you don't deserve it.

You don't deserve it.

I'm not even going to give it to you.

Yeah.

Oh, I know what you mean.

That's me for two hours when the first joke doesn't get as much stuff.

That's me for

the remaining two hours, throwing it all away.

Fuck you guys, you don't get the full thing.

We always start with still or sparkling water for your meal, Rafe.

Although today we're starting with still or bubbly fresh.

Oh, yeah, still or bubbly fresh.

Bubbly fresh.

Absolutely.

Do you know what?

I respect Ed so much.

He's had that up his sleeve since you said it.

Yeah.

It's very good.

I didn't think Ed to Ed had that there.

He's like, I know when the time is to drop that.

Yeah, yeah.

Well done.

Just let James get through his breakdown about stand-up and then I'm ready for my bubbly fresh joke.

I enjoyed it.

I um

I guzzle bubbly fresh water

all day, every day.

Yeah, I'm addicted to it.

I've heard some quite hefty soda stream content on this podcast before and I am in possession of one.

And probably my favourite drink in the world up there is Fizzy Water with Orange Squash.

Oh, hello.

Nice.

First of all, is it a pint glass?

Is it a small glass?

And then how much squash are you putting in to bubbly fresh water?

If I had the pint glass, I would use a pint glass, but it's sort of one of them in between a pint and a half pint glasses.

You know the ones I mean.

And I'm going to put about an inch and a half in.

So pretty, a good measure.

So I think if I'm allowed to, I'll have some orange squash in my fizzy water, please, monsieur.

Although, I knew fizzy or steel would be a question.

I know a friend of mine, this woman called Carla Gagino, she's an actress, she orders half and half.

She's the only human I've ever known do this.

She goes, I'll have half and half, please.

That must send them crazy in a restaurant.

What do they do?

What do they do with that?

They're confused, but they comply because they have to.

Is that because Fizzy Water's too fizzy for her?

Too much for her.

Too much for her.

But still water's not enough.

Indeed.

Yeah.

So she'll have half and half.

Thank you very much.

But for me, in this restaurant, I'll have

Robinson's orange squash in there, please.

That's your brand, as Robinson's.

Is there another brand?

It's a good point.

It's Robinson's or bust, really, isn't it?

Yeah.

I mean, really, what other orange squash brands are there?

There aren't any.

Apart from like home brand ones.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

That's what we had growing up was Sainsbury's home brand is what we always had growing up.

Now, you know, I've got two bottles of Robinson's in there, actually.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Guess what flavours they are?

Orange.

Yep.

And the Ribena flavour one.

Wrong.

Lemon.

Yes.

Wow.

Lemon's the king for me.

Sorry, Rafe.

Lemon's the king of the squashes.

That's quite saucy.

I'll do lemon squash with fizzy water from the soda stream.

It's like having a lemonade, but you don't feel bad about it.

A cloudy lemonade.

A cloudy lemonade.

You feel like you're in an old book.

Which I don't want to get too focused on drinks, but cloudy lemonade is the best lemonade, right?

It's the best one, yeah.

Yeah.

There's no mess.

We don't need to even get focused on it.

We all agree.

Can you remember the first time you had a cloudy lemonade and just thought, why have I been bothering it with that other shit?

I can't remember the exact time, but my dad, he guzzles it.

two litre bottle every day cloudy lemonade diet cloudy lemonade does he though yeah he murders it yeah absolutely destroys it brilliant We've got some goss on Timothy Spool.

Yeah.

Timothy Spall bloody loves his Cloudy Lemonade.

Quite often, like little bits of this podcast will sneak into the tabloids, which is always a very funny little celebrity fact.

And I really hope that Daily Mirror goes with Timothy Spool Guzzles Cloudy Lemonade.

TV Tim Guzzles Cloudy Lemonade.

They'll do some sort of pun headline for it.

I'm trying to think of one, but I can't.

All I can think of is Alfida's name wet.

Pop it absorbed bread.

Pop and absorb bread.

Rafe spool.

Pop it absorbed bread.

Bread.

Um, and I'm going to have some sourdough bread, and I want to put butter on it and salt.

Oh, yeah.

So, is it salted butter and then you add salt?

Yeah, yeah, double salt.

I was a very fat child, right?

I used to, I, and, um, I used to uh eat a lot, still do, but got a this is why I'm looking forward to this because on this meal, I'm going all out.

I'm not holding back because I don't need to watch my figure in this restaurant, do I?

Yeah, absolutely not.

But my mum and dad always used to say to me, Don't fill up on bread.

Yeah, when I went to a restaurant, don't fill up on bread.

I never did, and I never have.

It's impossible.

Not because I'm holding back, not because I'm holding back because I'm eating all the bread I want, but I'm not full up on it.

So you found a loophole, really, because they were saying, Don't fill up on bread.

They meant, don't eat all the bread.

And you ate all the bread, and you're like, actually, I'm still not full, mum and dad.

So

you're lying because it's impossible to fill up on bread.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, your dad's there, full to the brim of cloudy lemonade.

Yeah, he's drunk so much of it it's spilling out of his mouth what a hypocrite what a hypocrite he's saying don't fill it fill up on bread and he's got foam coming out of his eyes yeah hang on dad why don't you not fill up on cloudy lemonade thank you very much you leave me to it leave me to it let me enjoy myself at least the restaurant have brought that to me you've brought that bottle with you dad yeah exactly

in a blue carrier bag

so you're a salty guy You like your salted butter, you add the salt on it.

Is that food in general?

You're a salt man?

I like sugar sugar and sweet um james i like you know i i do i love crisps oh yeah obsessed by crisps and and um although i've given them up this year was that like first of january you gave them up yeah and and beer

lager and and and crisps i've given up i'm still on the booze like i i have other booze and i have other salty snacks like nuts but trying to keep it a bit tight so so i've um i've given up on crisps and crisps and lager yeah and then you get foods for you sorry go for it james well Well, I was just going to say, I mean, your question seemed quite considered.

As you were going into it, I thought, oh, Ed's actually got a serious question about this where I was about to say, because Rave said he's given up Lago and Crisps, I was going to say, do you only give up stuff that you can make a sitcom name out of?

And

I was...

That's what I was going to go.

I definitely prefer your question.

Fools and horses, wouldn't you?

Fools and horses,

that's all I can think.

Exactly.

Not food.

Ever decreasing circles.

I'm going to stop with him and all.

I'm going to stop decreasing circles.

And also, I'm giving up my family.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's sad, dude.

But you don't want to get into that now.

I don't want to get into it.

But the rules are all.

Rules are all.

But I do like salty stuff.

Interestingly, so you've given up crisps, right?

I quite often have to say I'm giving up nuts because they're a big, like, they're a food that if I start eating them, I won't stop eating them.

They're like, I spiral out of control.

I can't fill up on nuts.

What sort of nuts are we talking?

Oh, I mean, with, you know, roasted, salted, but if in a dream world, I think roasted, salted pecans.

Jesus.

Roasted salted macadamias.

What do you think is king nut?

Yeah, good question.

Almonds are a classic nut, right?

But classic, but king.

King nut is, for me, is a roasted, salted pecan.

Wow.

Vay's facial expression there suggests to me he does not agree and has lost a bit of respect for you.

No, I don't.

No, I like, no, I love pecans.

I don't know if I've ever bought a...

I might have had a roasted, salted pecan in a roasted, salted mix of nuts, but never like a bag of them by themselves.

So I'm not qualified to pass comment on that entirely.

But you're talking about the

flavour of it.

I'm talking about the nut unto itself, like the most diverse, like the nut that could be eaten in many different ways.

The most sort of,

what's the word?

Versatile.

Versatile nut.

Yeah, exactly.

Versatile nut.

Well, my favourite nut, and I don't know if this qualifies, but I happily have it, you know, on its own, roasted.

In a dish, in a hot dish.

Yeah.

Even goes well in desserts.

I like cashews.

I agree.

I'm a big fan of cashews i agree bafe agrees with me because even a naked cashew is delicious yeah it is good isn't it and also a salty one's lovely yes absolutely i like it with chicken yeah in like a hot chicken dish chicken cashew is delicious it actually features in one of the dishes that i've chosen for this meal oh that's exciting

well let's get on to the meal then starter is the cashew in the starter is in one of them so i don't know the actual rules of this yet i'm gonna order for the table right yeah and so there's gonna be a few things who else is at your table?

I'm not going to say specific people because other people might get upset if they're not included.

Um, but I reckon it would be a group of about six is a good number, isn't it?

Yeah, because you can talk to six, you get to talk to everyone, but you're not naming names.

I'm not going to name names, you're refusing to in your head.

Do you know who I'm refusing to?

Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, oh, yeah.

I mean, you could say one person, Jesus Christ.

Um,

no,

I'm not gonna, no, uh, none of my kids would feature.

But no, there'd be some lovely grown-ups.

My favorite feeling in the world, because I love starters, right?

Starters are the best.

Everyone, you know, is to be at a table with your friends and I've had two martinis and I'm looking at the menu, deciding what to eat.

That to me is the best feeling known to mankind.

Two martinis.

That sent shivers up my spine.

I'm so excited about that.

Back to back, repeato, one, two.

Oh, yeah, bang, done.

I did this film in Atlanta and there's this brilliant thing where you order a cocktail and they bring you a cocktail beer whilst you wait for your cocktail.

Oh, wow.

They'll bring you a half of a half of lager straight away as soon as you've put your cocktail order in, which is fantastic.

Oh, that's great.

Because it takes a while to make everyone's cocktail.

So then you've got a little beer to...

So

I might say that as well.

I'll have a beer right away, two martinis and my orange squash.

You've had that before in a restaurant.

That completely qualifies.

Yeah, yeah.

You've ordered two martinis.

We've immediately given you a half beer.

You've had the two martinis.

How do you like your martinis?

I like them vodka,

very dry, straight up with olives.

Lovely.

Please.

I'm happy with that.

And then, and now I'm thinking about my starters and I know what I want.

So I'm going to hit you.

All right.

Great.

I want just a tricolore salad, right?

Just lovely.

Okay.

Fresh, beautiful.

Then I want some tuna nigiri.

Yeah.

And then I want just some grilled halloumi.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Give me a little bowl of hummus with some with some bit of pitter.

Yeah.

I also want, here we go, go, back to the cashew.

I want a watermelon duck and cashew salad.

Yeah.

Right.

But then I also want some creamed polenta with mushrooms.

And that will do us, please.

Us.

To start.

Oh, Rafe, I tell you what, I feel a real affinity with you because I was a fat kid as well.

And you're doing exactly what I would do.

I was going to say, if you hadn't told us that detail about yourself at the start, if you made that starter order, I'd have gone, Rafe, let's talk about your childhood.

What were you like as a kid, mate?

Very fat, very fat.

And

I have to work hard to not be so these days.

But

we're not watching our figures tonight, are we, Ed?

We're doing it.

No, absolutely not.

We're doing it.

Do you know about that film, Le Grande Bouffe?

No, I don't.

Which is translated to the big fart in French, and it's about a group of French businessmen from the 70s who go to a house and decide to eat themselves to death.

Oh, right.

So that's my vibe tonight

Is this what you is this what you'd start with to eat yourself to death as well if that was your own?

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Yeah,

but also this is for the table.

This is for the table.

It's it's it's it's sharing plates.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're sharing these with your

yeah.

Yeah, but I know what you mean when you say sharing plates.

Yeah.

Your cover's blown on that one because I did that as well.

This is sharing plates and then you just eat as much of it as you can before anyone else works that out, right?

And also Jesus doesn't eat much, does he?

no

he has a little port he can always turn it into more as well that's that if he wants to that guy makes it last no i'll have bits and pieces of all of them but you know the grilled halloumi and the hummus that's small tuna nagiri that's small you're going to get six pieces in the giri on a on a plate aren't you um trickolore

that's nothing the the the creamed polenta and mushrooms you ever had that No.

I've had polenta before.

No, I had it with mushrooms before.

Yeah, creamed polenta.

That's a really good thing to cook in your house, you know?

Creamed polento, you put a bit of cream in it and um parmesan it's easy and lovely and what and what you kind of blend that together or what you do yeah you got to whisk it so so you you boil a bit of milk and then some butter and then carefully sieve in the um polenta slowly and whisk it and then you put in lots of parmesan and more butter and cream and you just whisk it and it's all sort of oozy and lovely it's really good are you dipping the pita bread from the hummus into that as well no that's double carb you you that'd be too much because what you're going to do with

so you'd you'd you'd use polenta where you would maybe use pasta.

So it's nice with bolognese sauce or something.

Got you.

But in this case, just a bit of mushrooms.

Some mushrooms a bit.

How would you like this presented?

Because there's quite a few dishes here.

Do you want them just all brought out on like a lazy Susan sort of setup?

Or do you just want them dotted around the table?

I like it when, you know, you go to a restaurant and then the waiter brings out his own little table.

You know, when they do that, he brings out his own little table and he opens it.

Constantine opens it and puts it down.

You know, you're somewhere special when that happens.

You do that.

and then i like bonquettes you always feel nice when you're in bonquettes don't you yeah in a restaurant and um it would be a sort of large oval table okay nice where you could still speak to everyone so it would all go in the middle all within arm's reach of me now that salad is very specific and i haven't heard of it before is this is a place you've had this salad or is it something you've always had growing up watermelon duck and cashew salad i'm not familiar with it myself do you know what i love going to restaurants here it's probably my favorite thing to do and i'm going to sort of portray myself as being rather grand now.

You can get it in the IV, right?

Yeah, there you go.

But also, they do it at a sort of Pan-Asian restaurant called E ⁇ O.

The cashews are sort of caramelized.

And then the watermelon is really fresh.

And then the duck is like sort of, you know, like you would get in a Chinese restaurant, sort of like they can take apart with the forks.

It's really good.

I love duck.

Yeah, I love duck.

I love it.

Is that the king meat?

No.

Beef.

Buff.

There we go.

I don't know.

What's your king meat?

If you had to eat one meat forever, what would it be just to watch?

I think it's beef.

It'd be beef or lamb, I think.

It would be between those two, but beef is probably the meat I eat the most.

James?

Well, I do love those meats.

The thing is,

one thing that you've got to eat forever is different to me to something that's your favourite.

Because if I've got to eat one meat forever, I would probably let both of you down and choose chicken.

I can understand that, though.

But like, you know, if I think of like dishes that I've had that are the best dishes, I've had better lamb dishes, beef dishes, and even duck dishes than I have, you know, know, chicken dishes.

I think beef would probably win.

If I think of, like, yeah, the best meals I've had.

It's been beef-based.

Yeah, yeah.

What about game?

How do you feel about game?

Venison.

I wouldn't.

I have that sort of stuff so rarely that I would never pick it for my forever meat.

No.

No way.

It would say a lot about you if venison

hare was your rabbit was your forever meat.

I wonder.

Simply has to be.

Yeah.

I'm nothing without my goose.

Goose is bloody horrible.

I can't get on board with it.

You've read Goose?

No.

Yeah, I have.

Don't like it.

No.

Also don't like him alive.

I hate geese.

So do I.

I spent a day with a gamekeeper once.

Doing what?

Hanging out with him, going about his day-to-day work.

I want it in a raffle.

Day with the gamekeeper.

What are you talking about?

When I was a little kid.

Yeah.

When I was a little kid, I can't remember where the raffle was.

I can't remember what, you know, but yeah, but like, yeah, it's all you need to know.

It was a raffle in Katarina.

That was the top prize.

Spent the day with a gamekeeper.

And I won one of the prizes, and you had to go up and choose.

And I didn't know what a gamekeeper was.

I just saw an envelope that said Day with the Gamekeeper.

And I thought, that sounds amazing.

Because he's got all the games.

He's got all the games.

And so I chose it.

And I went back to my mum, like, this is going to be amazing.

And she was like, ah.

Okay, we can go.

But, like, it's not going to be what you think it is.

It's not a game.

It's like you think it is.

That's great.

And I I didn't even know like he he mainly looked after pheasants and I didn't know that this kind of stuff existed.

And uh he took me round to see all the pheasants and then started talking about, yeah, and then, you know, later on in the year we'll release them and then people come round and they shoot'em and I just got really I was like and I said to him, Do you ever like get attached to them as individuals?

'Cause uh and he he was like, Who is this kid?

Why has he chosen David the Gamekeeper at the raffle?

This is You just stood there going, I'd like I'd like to be the dog in Monopoly if if we're playing Monopoly.

Oh funny, me and you play Miles Trap and Cludo.

Why are we doing this?

But the thing is with winning it in a raffle is like, sure, you win it, but then you've got to organise it, right?

So like you would have obviously said to your mum, mum, can you organise this?

And then your mum would have about to call the guy sort out of time, the best time to do it.

I mean, it would have been a process.

Yeah, a whole thing.

Yes, here's where we can come.

The seven-year-old child can spend a day with you.

Exactly, because you could have just not gone, but you obviously just, like, you made the decision.

No, I've won it, I'm going.

Get my prize.

Yeah, I've won it.

It's a new thing to me.

I want to go and see what an experience.

You know, I never win raffles.

You have a new experience with this guy.

And he wasn't, you know,

he wasn't good with kids, Eva, that guy.

Well,

that's not why you go into the gamekeeping game, is it?

You don't

go, I'm good with kids, I'll look after a pheasant.

He never expected to have to show a kid around.

He's not happy.

No, he didn't expect that he thought no you know he'll have a fellow you know someone like-minded you weren't inspired by it it didn't you think you didn't go right now i know what i want to do no uh also later on in my life when i failed my first driving test it was really early in the morning i felt really depressed i went for a walk in the fields sat down for a bit accidentally fell asleep and then was uh scared out of the field by a group of beaters coming across and i i just they woke me up and I leapt out the field and just ran out of the field and they

didn't look back because I was too embarrassed.

Shooting seasons in in the winter innit?

So why were you sleeping in a field in the winter?

You've met him, right?

It was near my parents' house and I just thought I'm feeling really depressed because I just failed my driving test so I'll just go for a walk and then during the walk I was like oh I'm actually really knackered.

I'm gonna sit down

and then didn't intend to fall asleep but fell asleep and the next thing I knew I was being scared but being beaten out of the field.

Did you pass your driving test on the second attempt?

Yeah, passed it on the second attempt, no problem.

Eight days later wrote my parents car off did you yeah got a new car of my own uh had that for under a year before i wrote it off it's because the the beaters never stopped chasing him that's the thing

so no i've got the beaters on my back i always had the beaters on my back oh fucking hell where they are again for it floor it

I passed my driving test and I didn't have any, I never had a lesson.

And that's true.

What?

Why were you taking your test?

I was 27

and I'd met my wife and she said to me, you cannot be with me if you haven't got a driving license.

Sort it out.

Interesting.

And so I thought, oh, fucking hell.

And I'd been driving illegally for years.

Like when I say illegally, I mean with a provisional because I'd always had girlfriends that had cars.

So I'd always drive about with a provisional license.

And then in a sort of fit of peak, I was a bit like, oh, fine.

And I'll just book it.

So then I just booked, I booked a test and then thought nothing of it.

And then remembered that I had this test coming up in a couple of days and I couldn't have any lessons.

And so I thought, fuck, I'm just going to fucking go.

I'm going to see what happens.

Right.

So I went on the YouTube and I saw about how to do it.

And then

Elise took me around some roundabouts, which I still struggle with to this day.

Right.

Yeah.

You've never had a lesson in your life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Exactly.

I've never had a lesson.

And then I went along, somehow pulled it off.

The guy said to me.

The guy said to me, now I'm going to pass you, but this is the lowest pass I've ever given out.

This is the lowest one I've ever done.

I want you to know that.

I want a pass as a pass, innit?

And yeah, so there you go.

And now look at me, danger on the roads.

Imagine having to say that to someone.

Just so you know, I am passing you, but I don't want this on my conscience completely.

So I'm going to let you know that this is you've scraped through by the skin of your teeth.

I had a really low pass as well.

And I think my uh the person who took my test only passed me because she was clearly hungover.

So like every so often she would ask me to stop.

She'd She'd wind down a window and start breathing quite heavily.

And

so, because of that, I think she passed me out of guilt.

First time?

First time, yeah, but with like whatever the maximum amount of minors you're allowed.

Yeah, yeah.

But when we went to take the test, my instructor took me, and you know, you sit there and wait for the examiner to come out.

And he, my instructor, knew all the examiners, and they all come out and they pick up your sheet or whatever and read your name out.

And I can't believe that this didn't affect my test result at all.

The examiner was quite short and round, and she came and picked up the sheet, and he went really loudly.

He went, oh no, you've got Barney Rubble.

Like that, that loudly.

You've got Barney Rubble.

Like, fucking hell, shut up.

And then you had to do a test with your feet through the car and running around all the time.

Move on to your main course, Rafe.

Now, you know, that starter was a smorgasbord.

Sounded delicious.

Well, the smorgas is going to continue.

So, again, I'm ordering for the table, yeah?

I'm going to get, there's this restaurant now, which is sadly closed in New York City called the Spotted Pig.

And they had a burger there, which for me...

and I've had many, is probably the best one I've ever had.

And that's a cheeseburger with string fries, very, very thin fries and loads of them.

I'd also get a Porterhouse steak.

You know, the Porterhouse being

fillet on one side, sirloin on the other with a big T-bone down the middle.

Now, I want that cooked Chicago style.

Do you know about Chicago style?

Yeah, which is black and blue.

So, so you, it's very, very charred on the outside and very rare on the inside.

Okay.

And then I want a Melanzani parmigiana, right?

And also, I want a chicken burrito

and some guacamole to share, please.

To share.

So,

okay.

Have you got all that?

How did you discover that you liked your steak Chicago style, first of all?

Because I was with someone who I thought was quite cool and they said it.

And so then I asked what it was and it was really good.

And actually, like, there's a chain of steak restaurants in Canada called Black and Blue.

And I asked what Black and Blue was, and that is the way of cooking a steak.

Black on the outside, blue on the inside.

Lovely.

And it's called, for whatever reason, Chicago style.

It sounds like the way I have often done steaks by accident on a barbecue.

Yeah, I know.

It should be called British barbecue style, really.

chicago got that offer

i i know it's so true it's so true um and the thicker the steak the more difficult it is to cook but i think you need to lean into it what do you go for when you get a steak how do you order it i tend to say rare oh so you'd like chicago style i think i'd love chicago style i've had i've had it in italian restaurants before as well where they do like uh bisteca i think it's fiorentina like florence style that's right uh steak and it's is that the same sort of thing it's like really really rare yeah exactly what about you james how'd you get your steak medium rare usually it's you know it's not completely basic but uh it's pretty basic innovative i think it's a solid order no but it says something about you it it says that you've got a bit of danger about you do you know what i mean if it um if you said medium or medium well yes that might be quite unattractive that's what greg davis came on this podcast and said what well done

well that was his dream meal was a well-done steak

and fillet as well a well done fillet yeah what's wrong with him we tried we tried to work in it yeah it is a shame

because he seems like a good fella he is yeah yeah don't go for dinner with him no so i've got some um if there's any vegetarians there the uh the melanzani parmesana yeah

for the vegetarians uh that's lovely in it you ever had that i'm not sure i have oh mate aubergine with parmesan oh oh lovely i had an aubergine just before we started this hang about you you said that when dolly alderton was on your thing as well you said you had that aubergine you're obsessed by him yeah

I'm an idiot.

I've never.

We fair.

I called you out on it straight away.

You absolutely might.

Yeah, you've got me.

Yeah, you're obsessed by those melanzanis.

You need to look at it.

Did you put it under the grill again, scoop it all up with a spoon?

Yeah, I did.

That's exactly what I did.

Yeah, yeah.

He's got, yeah.

That is what I did.

Yeah, actually, yeah, that's exactly what I did.

Look, aubergine is very versatile and it's lovely.

But really, I respect that because you're eating it as it it comes because really um aubergine tastes of what you put on it like do you put a bit of oil on it or whatever olive oil lemon juice salt and pepper lovely yeah and that's it garlic pepper garlic pepper i use the garlic i use the garlic pepper yeah very nice do you like massaka yeah i like the massaka i made of vegetarian massaka during lockdown with aubergines actually yeah very good it's quite laborious though isn't it uh because you've got to oh yeah you know what i mean quite takes a while yeah got to cut them all up cook them and all that yeah yeah

they they really absorb oil don't they yeah really absorb yeah love that you put as much as you want

what's the deal with that i respect that i agree you know i feel like an aubergine sometimes it's the vegetable i most associate with as a guy i think do you use a whole carton of um sun cream when you put it on is it just like soak into your skin yeah yeah

Just straighten me awful.

I mean, I can really relate to what you just said about it absorbing oil, actually.

And it is something that recently I've had problems with when I'm grilling my aubergines, is that when I pour the oil on,

wherever it is that is that exact spot that I've put the the oil on, it goes right in there, and then I can't spread it.

And what I need is like an oil glaze curtain like they have for doughnuts.

You know, when donuts go through the conveyor belt for the glaze curtain, that's what I need, is olive oil, glaze curtain in my flip.

Have you thought about a spray situation?

You could mist it.

I could mist it.

That would be good.

Also, a brush.

You haven't got a brush.

No, I think I need to invest in a brush if I'm going to keep eating these aubergines like this.

Here's the thing as well: is actually, weirdly,

someone told me recently that when it comes to cooking aubergines, and this sounds counterintuitive, but if you were to actually like deep fry them, right?

And now this, they absorb less oil if you cook them in loads and throw them in.

Oh, for some reason, they don't,

they cook nicely without absorbing all the oil.

So, the more oil you put in, the less they absorb, strangely.

But if you like your aubergines, then you need to get on an aubergine parmigiana.

It's lovely.

I love aubergine parmigiana.

Well, that was part of my fat boy lunch tour that I'd do most days,

where I'd go down the high street and go to the deli and buy aubergine parmesana and a sandwich, and then go to greg's and get a couple of pasties and then go to the corner shop and buy a pack of biscuits and then go back to my mum's house that's me i would do similar things i would go to the cafe and i would get a full breakfast with four slices of toast and then i would go to the shops and i would and i would get uh mars bar topic twirl lion bar crisps and and um milky way stars yeah perfect that's pudding you eating all those in one sitting oh yeah yeah yeah

Talking about, you're not going to spread them out.

They're going straight down.

And that's breakfast.

Yeah.

That's before lunch.

But I was also, that was in a period of my life when I was smoking a lot of weed as well.

So that sort of goes together.

But yeah, no, but

you can't do that anymore and try and be an actor or whatever.

So this is why this is so lovely for me because

those rules don't exist.

I can go back to those halcyon days of

Milky Bar Stars for Christmas for breakfast.

Rafe, I feel like if we ever met in real life and went out for a meal, it would be the end of both of us.

Yeah, we'd just get a big trough.

I think we'd egg each other on, and it would be so bad.

And next thing you know, we're in the corner shop at breakfast.

This is how bad it would be.

If Ed rang me up one day in the morning and said, James, what are you up to today?

And I said, nothing.

I've got nothing planned.

And he went, I'm going to go meet up with Rafe Spoon.

We're going to get some food.

Do you want to come?

I go, no.

No,

I've got some aubergine to eat.

Thank you very much.

Absolutely not.

There's no way I'm coming to that.

Too hardcore for me.

It would be quite hardcore.

I mean, really, we should get onto your side ditch, although I really want to know about the chicken burrito.

Suddenly in there at the end, a chicken burrito.

Because I could easily eat Mexican food for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Oh, yeah.

Every day.

Every day.

And I think if there was one cuisine that I'd eat forever, one country

whose food I could...

live on forever, it would probably be Mexico.

I've spent quite a lot of time in Los Angeles.

I made a TV show there a few years ago, and uh, yeah, it is that LA Mexican food is something else.

And is it from anywhere anywhere in particular, this chicken burrito?

Yeah, a restaurant in Venice Beach called Casa Linda, and I would go, I would go there every evening and have that because I get into a routine where if I'm away filming or working or whatever, and I find one place, I go to that one place every day and eat the same thing.

And I'm also happy eating the same thing for lunch every day.

And I've, I've, uh, you know, and I generally, generally do.

And then I'll get sick of it.

Like for years, I ate a pit of bread with tuna in it every day for lunch for about three years.

Every day, every day, and only after three years did I get sick of it.

It wasn't like a gradual process of like, oh, I'm getting bored of this now.

It was, uh, I was happy until that last one, yeah.

And then I just stopped because I thought this is it's just that final bite, and then you're like, I'm, I'm never having this again.

Exactly.

It was, um, it was uh tuna with uh uh feta, um, hummus, uh, jalapenos, uh, and some cucumbers.

Because I eat hummus and feta every single day of my life.

Not a day goes by.

Really?

Ah, yeah.

You work it into other stuff?

Yeah, yeah.

You're sneaking it into whatever.

Because there's not that many meals, in my opinion, that can't be improved with the addition of feta cheese.

It goes with most things.

You could even put it on curry and you get away with it.

Right?

Get away.

I wouldn't advise it, but it wouldn't ruin it, would it?

You wouldn't serve that to a guest, though, would you?

That's something if you're having a curry and you're by yourself, you're like, go on.

China masala with feta.

No,

I wouldn't do that.

No, but I'd be tempted to try it by myself.

And then hummus, hummus, I devour the stuff.

I pot a day easy.

Has fetter come up in your menu yet?

No, because I would have had that, I would have had that for lunch.

I would have had it for lunch.

Sure.

Also,

Rafe's Rafe's point is

you could put it on anything that he's had so far.

So all of us could have.

Would you like us to bring you out a big, like, a big bowl of fetter and you can just sprinkle it on whenever you feel like it?

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, that'd be nice.

I've got some extensive sides.

Yeah, let's hear this.

Oh, we've got to hear these sides.

I'd be absolutely stunned if we went sides and you went just chips, broccoli, and that was it to be moved on.

If you had one side dish, the burger, that terrific burger, which would also be medium rare, would come with them string fries, but I also want other fries.

Okay.

And then I want some dauphinoir potatoes.

Yeah.

I want some simple fresh things, like a pickled cucumber salad, and I also want a tomato and red onion salad.

But then then I also want some truffle macaroni.

Now the thing with a truffle macaroni is there's this restaurant, a fancy restaurant in New York City called the Waverly

and they come and take your order and they always say to you, oh, we just want to let you know that a special that we have on is this macaroni cheese with truffle on it.

You go, oh, that sounds nice.

And they suggest that you get it for the table to, you know, and also what they do in America is they tell you the price of the special and it's $100.

Wow.

So I've never ordered it because that would be ridiculous to order it.

But now I'm going to because

I'm going to kill myself for this meal.

And I don't care about the price of it.

Sure, it doesn't matter.

I've left my family.

I've left everyone.

I'm eating myself to death with Jesus Christ.

So I'm going to get the truffle macaroni

for the table.

For the table, of course.

It's mostly near meal.

So have you ever had it before?

No, I've never had it.

You've not bought it, but you've not...

It's like no one else has ordered it and you've had it, but you don't know what it's going to taste like.

No one's dared.

You've got to have some serious chutzpah to go, yeah, I'll have that.

If they go, the truffle macaroni at $100, you've got to be a bit of a baller.

I think you know some ballers, don't you?

I do know some bawlers.

How are they justifying that?

Well,

because

people must do it, right?

This is a it's a pretty fancy spot, and so there's lots of famous people that must order that.

And you've got those different salads, nice little salads.

You've got to cut through it with

the vinegar in the pickle cucumber salad.

So that's like

very finely chopped up cucumber in a sort of vinegar uh with a bit of dill dill and pickle dyl and pickle classic what a lovely match oh i missed something out yeah i thought this was a bit light

we don't want you going hungry rave jesus wouldn't want it uh um zucchini frittie yeah nice so courgette chips yeah with courgettes with um parmesan on them and then deep fry it please are you having a little bit of everything or are you in danger that you might end up getting focused on one thing and having too much and then filling yourself up.

I'm worried because a burger is okay.

So a burger is hard to share, yeah?

So

that would be my main.

And then all the other ones would be, I'll have a bit of this and a bit of that, maybe half of the burrito.

And then I'd pick at the steak and then, you know, I'd enjoy a reasonable portion of the Melanzani parmigiana.

Yeah.

And then I'd go to town on the sides because the side, you know, sides are fun, aren't they?

Everyone loves sides.

Yeah.

So you've got the string fries.

Yeah.

And you said you want some other fries, but are you talking just French fries or thick cut chips?

No, I don't want thick cut chips.

Look, if you bring me thick cut chips, I'm not going to be upset about it, but I'm going to choose very salty, thin, crispy chips.

Yeah.

Do you think there's many people that would, maybe you two gentlemen would choose a thick cut fry over a thin one.

We've weirdly had some people on the podcast who have said that.

It always surprises me.

I think the thinner ones are by far superior.

Gotta be.

Sometimes you're just in the mood for chip shop chips, though.

Yeah, that's fine.

Thick, soggy ones.

That's what you're in the mood for, covered in in vinegar but on a night out you know you're at a restaurant i'd always go thin fries unless i was somewhere where i knew they were like legit thick really crispy fries somewhere like hawksmoor that do big chips but they're like they're really crispy i'd go for them you might be the guest that we've had on this podcast who is the most like Ed.

You are, exactly.

Exactly like him.

I'll take that.

Even down to that moment then, Benito, where they both just laughed.

Make sure we use that for the picture when we tweet it because you looked exactly the same that's hilarious but uh no you you've got to triple or quadruple cook them them fat chips yeah right do you ever do cook chips in in your house do you ever cook chips because this is a new thing for me I do I do you've got to get yourself a deep fat fryer because they are they're terrific a lovely meal and everyone's happy to eat this if they come to your house for dinner chicken and chips roast chicken chips oh yeah bit of salad that's lovely that's a happy dinner that is and everyone's gonna be happy to eat that are you cutting up the potatoes yourself and getting them thin oh godcha yeah you gotta and but you get them all nice and thin and you've got to watch wash that starch off them yeah and then you've got to uh dry them all which can take a while but just stick them on a tea towel pat them off and then do them in batches and give it cook them three times cook them in for a bit take them out let them rest again let them rest again even when you first put the chicken in do the chips just do the chips five minutes take them out halfway do them again just before you serve the chicken smash them in there again and they are truly wonderful and then you're ready for your potato dauphinois.

Yeah.

And

that's got you going for the dauphinois.

Yeah, yeah.

Dauphinois is terrific, though, innit?

Oh, I mean, that is.

I'll rarely have it, but what a treat.

What a treat.

I mean, again, I'm pretty sure that's Ed's favourite way to have potatoes.

It is.

Because also, it's nice to dip chips in them.

Dip chips in the sauce, in the dauphinois sauce.

Talking of sauce, English mustard I have with my steak.

Yeah.

I do like Dijon, but I'll go go english and then bit of ketchup vinegar as you said ed for the chips yeah i was going to say some tartare but there's no fish to speak of is there but maybe i'll get a bit of tartare anyway why not why not while you're there

let's hear what your dream drink is so i've had i've had two martinis to start off yeah you don't want to you don't want more than two martinis like yeah because then you feel it and you want to enjoy the meal i've taken to drinking martinis at home which is very dangerous especially if you then need to cook a meal so if you have two martinis and then you've got to cook a meal it is a recipe for injury there's two here that i've got along so i've done them i've done the martinis and the lager uh there's one softy uh another softy which is not the orange squash and then there's a then there's some more booze okay so one of them is diet coke now i've given it up i i gave it up years ago because i was addicted to the stuff right i used to nail it destroy it and i'd have five cans a day easy for about 15 years yeah yeah and then I thought this can't be good and someone pointed out to me they said

just think of it as the sort of thing that will be kept under the sink

and and that it stuck with me because it's not a chemical as that it worked it worked well look I'll tell you this about diet coke and I know early earlier on you you called me out for uh you know talk about aubergine and already talked about it on another episode but here here's a here's something brand new for you I

2013 I think I gave up caffeine and for five years I just didn't have any caffeine at all.

And then I started drinking Diet Coke after five years because I hadn't had any caffeine.

It tasted like normal Coke.

Yeah.

It just tasted like normal Coke does.

Now, Rafe, he has told that story on this podcast so many times that when you started saying you gave up Diet Coke, I thought you were going to do the story back at him.

That's where we're at with that.

I thought you

were repurposing the story to throw back in his face.

No, I wasn't repurposing it.

No, this is genuine.

I'm interested.

So have you since given it up again, James, or are you still on it?

I've given up Diet Coke and now I'm onto Diet Pepsi.

I prefer Diet Pepsi.

It tastes better.

It's a better drink.

Max?

We're talking Max.

Normal Diet Pepsi there or Cherry Pepsi Max.

Me and Ed are fans of that.

Yeah, I love Cherry Pepsi Max.

He's with me there.

If you've never had Cherry Pepsi Max, Rafe, I warn you against it because it sounds like it'd be worse than your Diet Coke addiction.

I'd be back in the calf, wouldn't I?

Absolutely.

You'd be putting your dad's cardi lemonade addiction to shame.

There'd be a chug-off at Family Christmas.

So you got Diet Coke?

And then I like wine.

I like wine.

And so there's a fancy wine from a place called Chateau Latour, which is a claret, and

it would probably be maybe 1990, that sort of time.

About 30 years old.

A bottle of that would be about two grand to buy, not in a restaurant.

So in a restaurant, it'd be about eight grand, I reckon.

Wow.

But money and health is no object at this meal, is it?

Money and health is no object.

That's our slogan on this podcast.

Can you ever see yourself in a situation where you're going to order an eight grand bottle of wine?

Because, I mean, it's that or, you know, 80 mac and cheeses, isn't it?

Yeah, that's a good question.

Could I ever see myself?

I don't know, like, how rich have you got to be?

How rich have you got to be to not even blink at that?

I think you've got to be like proper, proper loaded, haven't you?

Or a proper cunt.

It's one of the two, isn't it?

It's either you're so rich or you're just a proper cunt.

Or both.

Yeah.

Yeah, and they often do cross over they do their venn diagram is probably on the venn diagram there is a sweet circle yeah yeah exactly um so so i think i can't ever see myself doing that no but i do i do collect wine i've got some wine do you have a wine cellar rafe how are you storing your wine well i i uh

uh yes i do and i because because i moved to i live in the countryside and i moved to a house with a cellar in it and the people owned before me they racked it out with all wine racks and so i I thought, well, I should put some wines in there.

So I suppose, yes, I do have a wine cellar.

Yeah, I love it.

That's my dream.

Is it?

Yeah, because I really like wine, but I've only just started getting into it, really.

Yeah, me too.

We have a new space to store it, really.

So it's just sort of about the place.

And my fiancé's a bit like, are you going to drink some of this before you get the new stuff?

I'm like, that's not the point.

But I find the idea of dying with a wine cellar really sad.

Like,

you know what I mean?

You want to drink it all?

You've got to drink it.

Yeah.

Because you can become quite miserly about it and go, yeah, I'm not going to touch that one.

But, you know, there's this sort of sad poetry in the idea of dying with a fully stocked wine cellar.

We can leave it to Ed in your will.

Yes, please.

Yeah, I will.

Yeah, I will in my will.

I'm sure your family will really appreciate that, me turning up on your front doorstep.

But very quickly, they'll discover, this man is exactly like Scott.

Do you know what?

This is now down.

You can come and choose a bottle of reasonably...

You could come and choose a bottle of wine from my wine cellar to the amount of about £20, which is what you are prepared, which is what you are prepared.

I'll give you one.

I'll give you one.

You can come down when I pass away.

If you outlive me, I'll say this to my wife.

This is on this podcast.

Help yourself, go down there to a nice bottle of £20 wine.

That'll be a very sad bonus episode that we did.

How soon after you pass, do you think it's appropriate for me to arrive at your house to get my £20?

That's your judgment to make it.

I'm not helping you out with that.

That's a tough idea.

Pudding.

Are you ready for some pudding?

Strap.

Yeah, always.

Although I'm worried.

No, I'm going to surprise you.

I'm going to surprise you.

No, you're going to be surprised.

It's just one.

Just one pudding.

No, but I'm worried because you're very similar to Ed, so I'm very worried about what this pudding's going to be.

It's just, it's Ben and Jerry's caramel choo choo.

Oh, he's absolutely done it.

It's fine.

Wow.

Yes.

Yes.

I've never seen James go from such worry to such relief.

That's the best thing he could have said to put James at ease.

So has he.

Also, though, to me, that's fascinating because obviously I love ice cream.

I love Ben and Jerry's.

I do love caramel choo-choo, but that is your one that you've chosen.

And caramel choo-choo is the one that I forget how good it is.

And then when I have it, those little cups of caramel encased in chocolate, the way they crack in your mouth when you bite into them is very satisfying.

Stop it.

Also, the caramel swirl that goes down the middle of it.

It's heaven.

It's lovely.

I love ice cream and it's probably my favorite food.

Yes.

Yeah, ice cream.

At number one.

The twist at the end.

Yeah, he was like you all along.

My kids always say, you know, kids always ask questions like, what's your favorite colour?

What's your favorite food?

And they ask me all the time.

And so I think about these things

and it is ice cream.

And Ben and Jerry's are being some of the finest purveyors of it.

And I love caramel.

I love toffee.

I love five, that kind of taste.

And it's heaven.

So we'd all have a

whole punnet each.

Yes.

The consistency of it.

how hard do you like the ice cream how soft do you like it i don't want to bend a spoon putting it in yeah so it needs what 10 minutes out of the fridge yeah i agree with that what do you reckon i'd say 10 to 15.

i don't mind it a little bit soft but i don't want it i don't want to rock hard i don't want that thing where you go in for a big scoop and you only get a little slither off the top and it goes pinging across the room i hate that yeah i know it's the worst it's the worst but you want it you want it you're so desperate for it and you know so i i have an agar so so i somewhat expedite it by laying it next to the aga yeah that's good that's a good tip to get yourself an agar and a wine cellar, painting a picture of myself,

painting a picture of myself here.

So

just a simple caramel choo-choo.

And then an espresso.

I love a nice espresso just to get me on my way.

Just to cut for all that food.

Just to shake it or a digestive, as it were.

Just to get you on the way to the afterlife.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

I'd have that.

And then I'd probably get back on the lagers again.

Can you do that?

Can you get back on lagers after a big meal?

Because I'd then have to stick to wine or I'd have to go with spirits.

If I'm out drinking, like at a dinner or whatever, always go back to lager because it's, you know, a sobering beer.

A nice sobering beer.

You have a lager.

It just, you know where you are with it.

It's not, it's not too, it's not going to...

Nothing unexpected.

It's a little beer.

You're going to be fine.

And you can stick on the beers.

When you said sobering beer there, I think there were definitely some driving lessons that you missed.

No wonder.

This is the lowest I've ever given anyone, mainly because you're a hammered, but somehow you're able to round all the corners.

I'm going to read you your menu menu back now Rafe and we'll see how you feel about it this is like reading a fucking novel here we go um water bubbly fresh with Robinson's orange squash poppinoms or bread salad with salted butter and salt starter two vodka martinis with a quarter pint of beer while you wait for the martinis then you want to look at the menu and then you'll choose tricolore salad tuna nagiri grilled halloumi hummus with pita watermelon duck and cashew salad from the ivy and creamed polenta with mushrooms main course for the table you want spotted pig cheeseburger medium rare with string fries, porterhouse steak cooked Chicago style with English mustard, melaszani parmigiana, chicken burrito with guacamole.

Side dish.

French fries, dauphin wild potatoes, pickled cucumber salad, tomato and red onion salad, truffle macaroni from the Waverly, zucchini fritti, ketchup vinegar and tartar sauce.

Drink, diet coke with a 1990 claret.

On the side, although I'm pretty sure there were more drinks there, but we skipped onto the dessert, which is Ben and Jerry's caramel choo-choo left out of the fridge for about 10 to 15 minutes how's that feel sounds good didn't it sounds good man you'd enjoy that wouldn't you even if it'll be a bit overwhelming it'll be fun you'd have a nice evening out i think it's safe to say that that's my favorite menu of all time ah there you go fabulous fabulous it's uh well i'm pleased yeah i love food it go going out to eat at restaurants is my is my favorite thing to do in the world And now this is your dream restaurant.

Yeah.

And you get to die at the end.

Eating yourself to death.

Eating myself to death.

And then we all stand around and we just watch you just slip off into the afterlife and we'd all have a moment's silence and then ed slowly walk out and get into his car and just drive to your house and knock on the door and go hello i'm here to choose the one wipe on the white pillar do i have to deliver the news of rafe's death as well

yeah to to my wife yeah exactly yeah good news and bad news We all go to the funeral and the person running the service steps up and goes, okay, ladies, we got a funeral today.

Exactly.

No hats, no trainers, no attitudes.

Thank you very much, Rafe.

Thank you.

It's such a pleasure.

Thank you for having me.

Well, there we go.

Choo-choo!

All aboard!

Choo-choo!

You were such a happy little boy.

You know what?

I was really glad that went your way, dessert-wise.

Because look, I love Ben and Jerry's.

I love Caramel Chuchu as much as the next guy.

Unless the next guy is James A.

Caster and Rafe Sprawl.

Yeah, favourite food, he said.

He says, favourite food is ice cream.

And,

you know, I'm gutted that I went off on so many tangents that meant we didn't have enough time at the end to talk about ice cream as much as I would like.

But John's fault.

We always do redemption episodes every now and again.

We have redemption dinner parties.

I say, next time, Rafe Sprawl comes in and we talk to him more about ice cream because that's his redemption.

He didn't get to talk about ice cream enough.

Oh, his redemption is he didn't get to talk about ice cream enough.

Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

I'd love to have Rafe back in the dream restaurant because, as you noticed, we're brothers in arms.

Your brother's in arms, and he didn't choose Dandelion and Burdock.

Thank the Lord, thank the Lord.

Thank you very much for coming into the Dream Restaurant, Rafe.

Um, uh, as your reward, we will now tell everyone that uh trying the second season is available on Apple TV Plus from May the 14th.

If you haven't seen the first season, go and watch that in preparation for season two.

Fantastic!

Thanks very much.

Uh, we will see you again sometime soon in the dream restaurant.

Goodbye, Choo-choo!

Hello, there, listeners.

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