Ep 53: Richard Herring (Bonus Episode)

James, huge news from the world of off-menu and indeed the world of the world.

Yes.

Ever heard of the Royal Albert Hall?

I have.

We've done live shows there.

And guess what?

We're doing more live shows there next year.

Sure, a lot of them are sold out already.

But we thought, hey, throw these guys a bone.

Let's put on one final Royal Albert Hall show in that run.

The show will be on Monday, the 16th of March.

It's going to be a tasting menu, a returning guest coming back, receiving the menu of another previous guest.

Those shows have been a lot of fun.

We cannot wait to do them live.

Who will we pull out of our little magic bag?

You'll have to come along on the 16th of March to find out.

If I'm correct in thinking, presale tickets go on pre-sale on the 10th of September.

Pre-sale tickets are 10th of September at 10 a.m.

And then the general sale is 12th of September at 10 a.m.

So if you miss out on the pre-sale, don't forget general sale is only two days later.

The day in between is for reflecting.

Get your tickets from royalalberthall.com or offmenupodcast.co.uk.

Well, hello there, and welcome to the Off Menu Podcast with me, Ed Gamble.

And who's that over there?

It's James Acaster as per.

You say as per, James, but we're in our separate houses, aren't we?

Because we be on lockdown.

lockdown yes yes i i miss you very much ed i know i miss you too man every day i wake up and i look at my poster i've got of you on my wall and i think about you and i think about chatting with you um and then i cry i've made a uh replacement you out of cushions and vegetables Yes, because if you've never touched me before, one thing you need to know about me is I'm very fluffy

and I also feel like a carrot.

But not where you'd expect.

Now, this episode of the Off Menu Podcast is a live streamed episode that we did because of that bloody virus.

All of us all in our separate houses.

And you know what the Off Menu Podcast is.

We're going to do a proper intro for it when we play out the live streamed episode.

And who's our special guest for this bonus episode, James?

It was.

A man named Richard Heron.

I had to Google him.

Yes, we both had to Google him.

He is a comedian, apparently, but he's on this episode because he won a fan competition

to be a guest,

which is very exciting.

He entered the, we had thousands of entries.

Everyone had to do their best drawing or painting of us.

And Richard won.

Yes.

Ah, you look so much like a pillowy carrot.

It was unbelievable in that drawing.

He absolutely nailed me.

Bang to rights with that pillow carrot.

So it's a really fun episode.

Obviously, it's live streamed.

There might be a couple of bits of internet interference or a little bit of lag here now and again, but the magician, the great Bonito, will have done a top job on it.

We did this for the Cosmic Shambles Stay at Home Festival, which is raising money for artists, comedians, people of that sort who have been hit hardest during this time, who've lost all their money.

You can donate if you enjoyed this episode, or indeed if you enjoyed any of our episodes, go on to cosmicshambles.com forward slash stay at home.

Well done James.

He's remembered the website.

We'll give you that one.

That was a victory.

Thank you.

Also, you'll know that we have a secret ingredient, James, every week.

And this week, we'll tell you the secret ingredient now because during the record, we held it up as a sheet of paper so Richard and Herring couldn't see.

James, what is the secret ingredient?

Yoghurt.

It's yogurt.

We're really trying to catch Richard out because he did a show called Someone Likes Yogurt.

We know he likes it, so he might say it.

And if he does say it, wouldn't it be funny in a live stream to just cut him off and chuck him out of the restaurant?

That would be great.

It would be absolutely hilarious.

So, donate.

Hope you enjoy.

This is the first ever live-streamed episode of Off Menu.

Tuck your napkins in and lick your lips.

It's Richard Heron.

Welcome to the off-menu lockdown special.

This is Ed Gamble.

You should know me from my voice, but we are missing someone.

You can see the magical lamp there that houses the genie, James A.

Castor, the genie waiter.

How are we going to bring him into the lockdown live stream podcast?

Well, how about everyone rubs their screen?

Rub, rub the lamp there, everyone.

Rub the...

I can't believe some of you are actually doing it.

You fucking losers.

Rub the lamp.

rub and oh, oh

oh

there he is.

He's not his own computer.

Hello, James.

Oh,

so many years of slumber.

Thank you, viewers, for rubbing my lamp and releasing me.

Hello, Ed.

Yeah.

You're not a traditional genie, are you?

In that you don't live in the lamp, you live just behind the lamp.

Yeah, people don't know this about me.

I live just behind and a little bit down from the lamp uh but i can't say hello unless someone rubs the lamp first rules and rules so you're not imprisoned you're not imprisoned by the lamp are you you just sort of sleep near it i'm not imprisoned by it if anything i i just keep an eye on it it's imprisoned by me if anything else i keep it a close eye

yeah the only reason i popped out it wasn't magic because it's like stop rubbing the lamp leave it alone

James, I've written an intro because I always forget to do an intro, so I've just had to scribble this down very quickly.

Oh, nice one man.

I'm proud of you.

Let's hear it.

Okay here we go.

Welcome to the off-menu podcast.

When the humor and chat is mixed together perfectly it rises like an audio souffle.

Very nice.

But never collapses like a souffle, right?

No, never does.

Unless we introduce a spoon to it, which pops it,

which is our special guest this week.

And we're hoping he's not the spoon that pops the audio souffle.

Before we introduce him, James, would you like to tell everyone what the podcast is and what what it's about welcome to the off menu lockdown podcast where we ask a special guest their favorite ever starter main course dessert side dish and drink in the dream restaurant this is off menu lovely i loved you loved that mate um so we can introduce our special guest he's in the top 30 podcasters in the uk

yeah it's pretty good man he's been going for a while for he was doing he was top 15 for a bit but unfortunately he's been knocked down the ranks by some young upstarts uh

yeah also very exciting this is our very first guest ever who asked to be on it

multiple times yes it means a lot multiple times on his own podcast has invited us both separately on his own podcast specifically to ask to be on this podcast.

And what's great about this is because it's a special live streamed episode, this doesn't even count.

No, it doesn't count.

I think it's only us watching it.

So please welcome our special guest to the Dream Restaurant.

It's Richard Herring.

Richard.

Hello.

I've done so little preparation as well, given that I wanted to be on it.

I've done nothing.

I'm going to make some of them up as I go along.

Perfect.

You really want to be on the podcast, but you've never thought about what you would say on it.

I just assumed assumed I wouldn't ever get on.

So, you know, I didn't bother

thinking about it.

And now I've got to look after my kids all day.

So

it's hard to do any work.

Do you cook for your kids, Richard?

Yeah, no, I cook a little bit.

Yeah, I mean, the kids are easier because it's sort of generally fish fingers.

That's quite easy.

Is that your signature kid dish?

That's my signature kid's dish.

So they're quite fussy.

My son is surprisingly will have a crack at anything.

So anything I'm eating, he will eat.

He's eaten licorice.

He's a two-year-old.

He's eating...

He's had a go at some non-alcoholic beer I was drinking.

I haven't given him alcoholic beer yet.

So he has a crack at most things.

He's quite adventurous.

But yeah, the kids are quite,

you know, fussy, aren't they?

But I cook a bit.

I cook quite a good vegetarian chili or a meat chili now.

I used to be vegetarian.

We started roasting a lot of vegetables and fish, me and my wife.

Tonight we had, I'd do a very good steak, and my wife said if she was on your show, she would choose the steak I cooked her the night before she was just about to turn vegan.

She never liked steak until I cooked her a steak, and then she now eats steak.

So it didn't work well for her veganism.

It's good to know that your wife has prepared for this.

She's just downstairs if you want to swap.

So

that's the beauty.

You can just tag team if you go, this isn't working for us, Rich.

I'm upset you're not really dressed as a genie.

I suppose that's quite offensive to genies though right so in a modern day you would dress in modern day clothes so i was expecting curly shoes and stuff yeah yeah those were old genies i i wear curly shoes sometimes but only on sunday when i go to genie church

i didn't know you went to genie church yes yes i'm a latched genie christian who who do you who do genies worship at genie church is it like normal christ Robin Williams.

I mean, genies are from Islam, though, aren't they?

So

that's where it originates.

So

you must be ostracized for becoming a Christian.

That must have been tough for you.

Yes, it was very difficult.

We used to be genie Muslims, and then someone made a wish and changed us into genie Christians.

We didn't want to do it.

But it was some real mean person who had done a lot of study into genie law and then found a lamp and then changed our entire lifestyle.

So yeah, we're all Christians now.

It's pretty tough.

But I'm not sure.

Richard's trying to get us in trouble with

religious people straight away.

Oh, yes.

He likes that.

I'm just giving you some facts.

You know more about it than I do.

You are a genie.

So I'm sorry for genie explaining for you there.

That was rude of me.

Yes, a bit offensive, but fair enough.

I know how my life is, Richard.

No, I'm sorry.

What are you wearing there, James?

I'm wearing this as a jumper.

Genies have just got into these.

For a while, we didn't really wear jumpers.

And lately, it's all the craze.

All the genies genies are wearing them.

We're going around just showing them off to each other.

I'm hoping some other genies are watching this are going to be absolutely jelly at my jersey.

Some jelly genies.

Some jelly, jelly genies.

Maybe Richard will order a jelly today for his pudding.

Who's to say?

No spoilers, Richard.

Now you've mentioned it.

That's quite a good idea.

Yeah, yeah, I forgot.

You're completely making it up.

Right.

So, Richard, you've got to close your eyes now because what you'll know if you're a podcast listener out there is that every week on the podcast we have a secret ingredient.

Yes.

If our guest says the secret ingredient, then they get kicked out of the restaurant.

And I've got to say

for any any episode that we've ever done so far, I really hope this is the week we have to kick someone out of the restaurant.

It will be very funny.

So what I'm going to do is I'm going to hold up the secret ingredient to my camera.

Don't you peek, Richard, you little shit.

I've got my eyes on you.

There you go.

You can turn around.

Can we see that?

Yes.

You can see that.

Okay, everyone can see that.

Right.

If Richard says this secret ingredient, he is out on his ear.

We're kicking him out of the Skype chat.

There we go.

Okay.

And we're going to sub you in for Katie.

Can I look?

Can I look?

Yes.

That's what's going to happen.

Still all sparkling water, Richard.

I wouldn't like people to choose tap water because you've got a genie who can bring you water from literally anywhere in the world.

So tap water, why just go for tap water?

So I was starting to try and think of unusual spring water, which then made me think what I would like is the water from the fountain of youth in the tele 1970s television show Big John Little John.

You are both too young to understand.

But

no, that's Big Cook Little Cook.

I know it.

There's a Big Cook and there's a Little Cook.

I know it.

I know it.

It's like there's a Big Howard and a little.

It's all explained in the theme tune, which goes, Big John had a problem that you can plainly see.

One minute he's 40, the next he's 33.

And then it goes on to explain that big john found a fountain of youth he drank a little drink and then that magic potion was the thing that made him shrink he changes into a uh eight-year-old boy uh every week uh in it when he's not wanting to so i'm hoping if i drink that water which i never do at the restaurant anyway that i will turn into an eight-year-old but hold on so uh

he turns into a little boy how does he then turn back for next week's episode it's just he turns back again it's not it's not permanent So that is the danger.

We're finding the fountain of youth.

You think, oh, this is going to be great.

I'm going to be young forever.

But what Big John discovered was that he just turns into a little kid and has some adventures and then turns back again at comedically inappropriate times.

And I would like that to happen to me.

You don't need to, if you drink the fountain of youth water, then have to have some very old water.

No.

No?

That would be good if he had to go find the fountain of being 40 again.

Yeah.

It's just a very staggering show.

It was my favorite show.

And during the change, it looked like one of the guys in the middle was Andy Kaufman, but I don't think it was.

Right.

But you'd see him change.

Back before it was like Big.

It was very much like Big, but before its time.

So it was a great show.

He would change, and there'd be loads of different versions of him until he gets to be an eight-year-old.

Well, he would, yeah, you'd just see the, you would see the change and then he would become this eight-year-old kid who didn't really look like the old man.

The ones in the middle looked a bit like him.

I was trying to think what the guy was in, but I can't think what he was in.

He was an actor you would recognise from sitcoms.

It was poor, but I would like to drink that.

Seeing your magic, I would like to drink that as my water.

That's a good choice.

That's fine.

So, Richard,

are you now eight for the rest of the meal?

I know, I will change to be eight years old.

And I wish I'd brought an eight-year-old kid with me tonight to don't just drag out and do the middle bit.

But at some point, I will change.

If you see me doing this, I'm about to change into an eight-year-old.

If I drink the water, but I might not drink it.

I don't really drink water in restaurants, so I don't care what water I have.

If you suddenly pulled out an eight-year-old from your attic, I think we'd have other concerns.

Yes.

He's in here.

Comes out swigging a non-alcoholic beer or whatever it is.

You've been feeding them all.

Yeah.

So you're going to have the fountain of

water that Big John had, and you're not going to...

drink it until you want to turn into an eight-year-old during the meal.

Well, it doesn't happen.

It doesn't happen immediately anyway.

So even if I did drink it, it wouldn't necessarily happen.

You've got to know the show.

It's pathetic that you two guys aren't old enough to understand.

I wish I could give you a fountain of understanding 1970s children's television references, but I can't.

But I'll drink a beer instead of, yeah.

How long does it take, Richard, for the water to start to work?

I think it varied.

You know, he drank it when he was in the jungle somewhere, and I think he didn't.

I mean, I don't know the show quite well enough to answer your in-depth questions, but I've feeling nothing happened immediately, and then just the inappropriate moments he changed.

I can't see there'll be an inappropriate moment in this, so maybe it'll kick in in the side dish.

Yeah, it could do.

I have another question.

Um, yeah, he looked.

Did he live near the jungle?

And so he can just go and get it whenever he wants.

What is this?

No, he drank from it.

He went, and I took this.

So I goes, Big John found the fan of the youth.

He drank, I remember this from the 1970s.

This is what I remember about the show.

He drank a little drink, and that magic water is the thing that makes him shrink.

Yeah, big John, little John.

So he just drank it once, and then what it did, rather than making him young, be careful what you wish for.

You as a genius should know this because the wish will act against you.

He didn't become immediately young.

He found the fountain of youth, I think, by accident.

And it didn't make him young.

It just made him at inappropriate moments become a child, which no one wants.

So is this whole life is this yo-yo in him between being eight and 40?

And he's got no like big, except in big, he stayed, didn't he?

Yeah, there's no, there's no, he has no control over it.

So it's embarrassing for him.

It's a very, it's a great sitcom staple.

I'm sure you, I'm amazed it hasn't come up more often.

Yeah, I like it.

It's pretty good.

Pop and observe bread.

Pop and absorb bread, Richard Herron.

Pop and absorb bread.

Bread, please.

Huh?

Can I can I have I would have popped dumbs if it was an Indian meal, but I'm not having an Indian meal.

But having pop-a-doms in any other meal would be slightly weird.

Although the bread I want...

is a very specific kind of bread and my memory of this bread is different than what actually happened.

I read my blog about it.

I went to Tanzania to meet my friend who lived out there, was

in the foreign office and he took me for a meal on the first night when I was jet lagged in an Ethiopian restaurant in Tanzania.

I've only been to Africa once and my memory is that the whole table was covered, that your meal arrived and it was, there were no plates and the whole table was bread.

Yeah.

It was this flat bread, Ethiopian fat bread.

But having read my blog,

it was like a bowl.

You had a bowl that you could...

That was made of bread.

But I would like, what I would like for the rest of the meal is Ethiopian flatbread.

It's made out of, I looked this up, it's made out of a grain called,

now I'm going to put my glasses on to read this.

Teff.

I looked it up because I couldn't believe it was real.

It was lovely.

And it's a great way just to eat your meat.

You can just scoop up the rest of your food.

So I'd like the rest of my meal on this table that is made of flat unleavened bread from Ethiopia, please.

Is it the spongy bread?

It's slightly spongy, but it's very flat, but yeah, it's got little bubbles in it.

And it's like a pancake, really.

Yes.

But it was bit, it was very big.

And genuinely, I really feel I remember everyone just eat like a lady and the tramp kind of eating their way to the middle of the table and then it running out.

But that didn't

happen.

In your memory, the whole table was made of bread.

The whole table was like a tablecloth of bread, which isn't what happened, but that's what I would like to happen.

I would like a tablecloth on on my table that goes down to the floor, made of bread, and then I can just mop up anything I'm eating for the rest of the meal with this bread.

How many of you were at that meal?

I would say there were

six of us at the

four of us at the meal.

There were four, there might have been six of us, four or six, but honestly, I was so jet-lagged, I can't remember very much about it.

It might not have happened.

In your memory, at the end of the meal, all of you ate your way to the middle, and all six of you kissed each other in a big kiss.

Yeah.

Accidentally, like Leiden Trump, we were just sucking up the last bit and then, oh, and then we kissed.

I kissed Tony Brennan on the lips.

A six-way kiss.

And that's what I would like to happen.

But I'm eating alone, presumably.

Am I eating with you, Ed?

Is that the idea that we're

eating alone?

So what would have to happen is you'd have to eat your way into the middle of the table and then just have a wank.

Well, I'd definitely do that.

But especially, you know, I could use the bread, the overhanging bread.

It's very absorbent, so it would be a useful way to clear up any mess.

I'm not encouraging any wanking during this.

This is a man who could change to a child at any moment.

I don't want any of that happening, please.

It's only a problem if you start wanking as you're changing and you start off on the way back up, isn't it?

Please.

It's fine.

No, it's not fine.

It's not fine, Richard.

It's still you.

It's still you, isn't it?

The bread is called Injira bread.

There we go.

Oh, is it?

Okay.

It's been chosen before.

It's been at least mentioned before on the podcast.

Marcus Samuelson, I believe, mentioned it and how much he loves it.

I love that bread as well, which is a place in Brixton Village called Habisha Village.

Yeah.

And they do amazing injira bread.

And it is just so good.

It's kind of got a vinegary kind of quality to it as well.

It's quite sour, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, it was good.

It was an amazing meal that from what I recall, but all I recall is the bread tablecloth that wasn't there.

Yeah.

So

that was the jet lag kicking in.

I could quite happily make the whole table out of out of that bread.

I think that's sort of bubbly.

It's sort of like the arrow of breads.

Yes, that is fair.

That is fair.

I reckon it'd be quite easy to make.

I think it's going to be, you know, I haven't looked into the recipe, but it's got to be pancake-like.

I can make pancakes.

Yeah.

It can't be too.

I can make a rudimentary loaf of bread now starting to try and cook bread.

If I was going to have like

the bread you get in a UK restaurant, I like those kind of when you get a warm bun and butter with lots of salt on top of it,

that's what I like.

You're not having that though.

I'm having Ethiopian bread made out of whatever that is, Tiff Stevenson.

What?

What?

Swatches, Jay.

Oh, no.

Now you've ordered bread made out of UK comedian Tiff Stevenson.

Oh, no.

And that has to stick, right?

No, that wasn't my first wish.

You can only take my first wish.

Yes, that's true.

First wish.

well let's move on to your starter in that case before you start eating up comics yeah well i struggle with the starter i really really like starters so i like lots of starters but i sort of feel with this show yes another starter boy yeah i mean i would i would like three starters but i can't pick one very easily and i feel with this show you've got you know you've got a genie to conjure up anything you want from any time in history i'm not going to choose like waggamum

the calamari, which is very nice, because I can go and get that anytime I want.

No, you can't.

Well,

you're right.

Yeah, my complacency has hit me in the face.

What I would like, as an unusual starter, is a pack of kettle crisps, spartan vinegar flavor from the 1990s, and a packet of kettle crisps.

And then I know people call them chips, but I call them kettle crisps from now.

So that I could compare the two and find out if they've changed or I've changed because I used to think they were the best crisps in the world.

Yes.

And I'm convinced they've changed.

But maybe I've changed.

Yeah.

It's how little preparation you've done for this podcast that you're now just doing material from your own one.

But I've got the chance to answer that question.

So I would like to have salt vinegar kettle crisps from the 1990s.

Yeah.

And then for comparison, and I'm going to do this later again.

because I'm going to use time travel a lot in this.

I would like, what, pack it now and i would like to find out if i'm right or wrong i think they used to be a lot more crinkly and a lot more uh ununiform more baked i think they're flat now they're not as tasty as they used to be i'm sure but have i changed or have they had which is which is it i was going to say is it your favorite is it your favorite crisp or the 1990s one is it your favorite crisp well in the 1990s i thought it was amazing you know i love crisps and they're not really a starter of a proper restaurant i i agree with this but uh i i've loved all kinds of monster munch, everything, all the way through frazzles, everything.

Salt and vinegar, crisps, golden wonder was my choice as a youngster.

When I first came across kettle crisps, whenever that was,

it felt like kettle crisps and its trivial pursuits.

When

they came across that, it was like something I'd never experienced in my life before, and it was life-changing.

And I can't believe I've changed so much that that crisp is today the same one that blew my mind.

As what?

I don't know when they came out, but I'm saying probably I ate one in probably 1992 or something like that.

And it blew my crisp mind.

I feel like that whole monologue that you just did there is going to be the last thing you say when you're in your deathbed and your brain starts misfiring and just throwing out random stuff.

And you're going to start saying, yeah, Monster Munch?

I like hot ovening crisps.

I like it.

Listen to what crisp you like.

And then I think I like kettle chips.

Kettle crisps.

They're called kettle crisps.

It's that exactly like that's going to be the last thing.

It might be happening now.

Might be happening now.

It might be this.

This might be just what's happening in my brain right now.

Is I'm about to die and I think I'm talking to two men whilst the country is cut down by a virus.

But in fact, I'm just dying and vaguely remembering something I talked about.

Yeah.

Here's why I'm angry, Richard.

Yep.

You drew me in and said you were a starter boy.

And then of all the starters in the world, you picked two bags of crisps, the same crisps from different times.

That's not a starter, it's a snack.

I couldn't choose.

I couldn't choose.

I like like a Thai shape.

What do you mean you couldn't choose?

I couldn't choose a starter.

I love all the starters equally.

And so I was.

So you picked none!

I did.

You could start with some crisps.

Depends what your meal you're having.

Yeah.

You could have with a few crisps.

No, you could talk about Richard.

You go, if you're in someone's house, they go, hey, have some crisps.

We haven't got official starters.

Have a

crisp from a Richard.

I've kept a bag from 9-19.

I've got a kept

from now.

Test them both and see what you think.

That has never happened that anyone has been at a dinner party at someone's house and anyone has ever used the phrase, we don't have any official starters.

Please have a bag of crisps.

Look, it's a nibble with a drink before the meal.

No one said we don't have official starters.

Not in this case.

Well, that was like a pretty good starter to me.

I think it'd be nice.

Just a few crisps.

You're offering me Poppadoms or bread.

Poppadom's just a big crisp.

Yeah.

Yeah, not as a starter, though.

You could have picked the crisps instead of poppadoms or bread.

I was going to have poppadums as my starter.

That was my, I was going to have bread as for bread or poppadums and then poppadums as my starter.

That was my other choice.

Yeah.

Because I like poppadums.

But I probably choose bread between the two.

So I could have both.

Have poppadoms changed since the 90s, Richard?

Poppadoms, yeah,

they have got better since the 90s.

So that's what they're more, the Popadom scientists and chefs have worked hard and perfected it.

That's why it's unusual for something to get worse, isn't it?

Yes.

And I don't look back.

And they've started putting little spicy bits in some of them and little seeds in some of them.

They never did that when I was a youngster in Cheddar with all the Indian restaurants we had there.

So, you know, yeah, most things improve.

That's why the kettle Christmas tree, I think, is worth foregoing any star trader.

There's no starter I care enough about in the world.

But But also, you've got the fountain of youth water on the table.

So

you're comparing these two crisps from different eras, and at any point you could change into a little boy, and then

you could find out if your palate was different.

Then it's kind of the ultimate test, to be fair.

Well, I suppose the danger is I change just as I'm eating the crisp, and then I'm impressed by the crisp because I'm young again.

Yep.

And then I don't know whether it actually is better or not because the stupid young me is going, this is the best crisp I've ever had.

The eight-year-old me would fucking, he would love that.

that he would love that that's true crisps he would love it and trivial trivial pieces are you gonna are you gonna dip are you gonna dip them in anything um

they're all right with a bit of hummus but that if you do that i won't know yeah what what the taste is well i if i put hummus in you go oh that tastes of hummus that's nice excellent point but no

i thought this was my

it's an experiment it's my dream restaurant yes if i went to heston bloom and touching you'd squirt some air air into my mouth that changed in a liquid as it hit the back of your throat or something.

And you go, Oh, that's not starter.

I'm having a solid bit of crit and a solid thing made out of potato.

Yeah.

Beautiful salt and vinegar.

Is that what happened to you when you went to Heston Blumenthal's restaurant?

You said something.

Shut your eyes and I'm going to shoot something into your mouth.

It's a gasp, it'll become liquid

the back of your throat.

Yes.

Now,

I'm not sure when this is allowed, but again,

this isn't a meal I've ever had.

Yeah.

But why hate is when people go on desert island discs and choose their eight favorite records.

That's not what desert island discs is about.

You should choose your eight records that would best help you survive on a desert island.

Okay, that is what I believe.

So probably the first one should be a record of someone just saying how to survive on a desert island.

A record of someone saying how you build a rafter.

They set it to music.

It's not about choosing your eight.

It would be called what are your eight favorite records, wouldn't it?

If that's what it was about.

So why do people go on and go, oh, my favourite record is the Beatles?

No, mate.

What would record would you take to a desert island with you?

So I'm not choosing anything I've ever eaten.

My main course, I would like to, I thought I'd like to go back to medieval times and eat what like King Henry VIII ate.

Like a and eat eat a proper medieval meal because i've got a genie who can go through time and bring me what i want but then what i thought is what i want for my main course is four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie oh my god

but vegans it's okay the blackbirds survive the experience and when you open the pie they begin to sing That's what I would like.

Just before everyone starts logging off, we should probably quickly say why we're doing this.

Yeah.

We're doing this for the stay-at-home festival.

and this is to raise money for performers and people in the arts who've had their livelihoods destroyed by what's going on at the moment there should be a link there should be a link on the on the video of how to chuck in a tip uh how to donate it's not going to it's not going to us uh because look we're doing great we're sat in our rooms listening to richard herring give one of the worst menus i've ever heard an off menu um

so donate now we're okay we'll occasionally chip in and say donate uh but if you're enjoying it why not throw some money in and now back to richard's main course which was

four in 20 blackbirds baked in a pie alive baked in a pie you open the pie the birds aren't dead and they begin to sing i want that i want the blackbirds trained to survive being in an oven yeah and then not be upset by the experience yeah so they're happy with it okay they've chosen this life and then when they're cut open they avoid the knife and they are so happy that they sing so okay i've got so many questions.

Yeah.

When you cut the pie open, do they fly out?

Well, I mean, they don't in the nursery room, do they?

But in the thing it's based on, I looked this one up and there is a medieval recipe for to make a pie that the birds may be alive in and then fly out.

So I would,

they could fly out and you do that by creating a false bottom in the pie.

which is full of flour and then you cut the bottom out and then there's room for the birds to go inside.

I don't think you then cook it and then you open it and it's a nice surprise for your guests.

It's not exactly what I want because I want them to sing, not fly.

What will they sing?

Well, they're just sitting.

I mean, they're not going to, I mean,

they'll probably just sing a blackbird song.

I'm not going to go to the extent of training the blackbirds to sing a popular song.

A blackbird song?

Well,

they could sing Blackbird by the Beatles if you want.

But no, I think they should just chirrup as a blackbird would.

I can't believe you're annoyed by the question, what would the blackbirds sing?

As if that's insane.

They would sing.

They would just sing.

Blackbirds can just...

They're not mimics.

They can't sing popular hits.

Richards.

We're in the real world here.

The whole dish is impossible.

And you've asked me for my genie powers to make it possible, and I can, so I can also get them to sing whatever you like.

Okay, I'd like them to sing

Dick de Lieber by Schubert or Schuman, I forget which one it is, the entire German song cycle of Dick de Lieber.

Dick de Lieber.

Are you happy now?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because I used to sing that when I was a young man.

It would remind me of that.

I'd choose that for Death's Island disc because it's a really long record.

It's quite boring.

That's what I want.

If you're not eating the blackbirds because they're surviving and singing to you, is your main course essentially a pie crust?

Yeah, with some bird shit in it.

I'm guessing.

I'm guessing the birds are going to shit.

I don't think I'd eat it, which is why my side dish is quite important.

So you're not going to eat your main course?

No, I just want that.

That's what I want to be.

I told you what I wanted in my podcast, which was the lobster I had when I had a terrible experience in Barbados and my testicles swelled up.

I'm not going to go through that story again.

Went on holiday with a woman who got engaged to someone else the day before we went on holiday.

We're not going through that story again.

No, I don't.

That's what I would have if I was going to eat it.

But.

I want just a spectacle.

I want a spectacle to go with my side dish, which is a quite hefty side dish.

Yeah.

Oh,

I imagine your side dish is bananas in pajamas or some shit.

Why would I not have a genie and not do something amazing?

Why get it?

Absolutely.

Get Nando's, you know, get Nando's

second hottest sauce with some half a chicken.

I can go and get that when the war's over.

I'll get it.

I'll get it.

I think it's nice to have some fictitious answers for once.

Here's what I want to know, though.

You open the pie and they all begin to sing.

Yeah.

Because this is visual and normally we don't have a like a visual one would you be able to just like show us how you would react to it while they're singing to you

i would be i'd be eating my side dish yeah that'd be like this that'd be just going

i've been mildly impressed by it you know i've heard the nursery yeah i'm not gonna be that impressed Those poor blackbirds, they get baked in a pie and basically you have to sit in a sauna for an hour and a half or whatever it is.

And they finally fly out to do their song and all they get is 90s comedian Rich rich heron going reflecting just reflected in his mind on the experiment he did a minute ago with kettle crisps

i think it was because the whole point of the sort of the big revelation when they used to do that was it was to surprise the guests you've made this and then it's not it's gonna not gonna surprise you at all is it no

i'm just gonna look at it

I'm gonna look at it.

I'm gonna say the Blackbirds, to be honest, that wasn't as good as I expected.

How about this, though?

what if yeah by then you've turned into an eight-year-old you've forgotten that you've ordered that and when that happens your eight-year-old self doesn't remember it can you show us what that would look like yeah it's gonna be

how did the blackbird survive the oven that's good how how would you feel about this richard what if the blackbirds sing fly out They have some of the youth water and then they turn into little hatchlings and eggs in front of you that would be amazing that'd be good it'd be good if they become eggs they're flying and they become an egg and then it would be they'd splat on the ground and die be spectacular i want that to happen and then what face would you make then

with that

i can't wait to release this as an audio episode it's four and twenty not 24.

i want four and 20 not 24.

okay very important

yeah is there anything else in the pie that you could maybe use to give the crust some flavor?

Is it like a

pork pie, maybe?

No, it's a blackberry pie, nothing in it.

And I'll be using the bread tablecloth to scoop up the pastry and then eating a sort of sandwich with crust in the middle of it, like old-fashioned crust as well, which I imagine is really thick.

You're going to have a dry Ethiopian bread pie crust sandwich.

Yeah, that's what I'm going to have.

But I've got a side dish which will sort everything out.

my side dish is a jacket potato but it's a very specific one it's the jacket potato that I used to that I would love to get I want to taste this again well I don't want to taste something that I can taste now I want to taste something that is lost and I can't get back when I was in my last year at university I was vegetarian And we'd get drunk and everyone would have kebabs.

And I couldn't have kebabs because I was vegetarian.

uh the blackbird pie is vegetarian we the blackbirds are fine uh and uh we'd walk down the high street and there was one van there that sold baked potatoes and what i would have is a jacket potato with coleslaw and hot chili sauce and i'd get that and i'd take it home and eat it in my room on my own at two o'clock in the morning and it was the most delicious thing I've ever eaten.

I think there might have been something else in there as well, but I can't remember.

But it was coleslaw

and chili sauce and maybe some garlic mayonnaise or something like that.

There was another ingredient.

It sounds like the wettest food I could possibly imagine.

That's okay.

It was so delicious.

I can't tell you.

Everything else has been pretty dry so far, to be fair.

He's had injured bread and nothing, crisps, pie crust.

So far, the meal is just dry bread.

dry crisps and dry pie crust and now finally we have this sludgy jacket potato that has, I mean, how creamy is the coleslaw?

Well, I can't really, I can't really, all I remember is it tasted, just, it was the most amazing thing I've ever tasted.

And I would like to taste it again now to check whether I've changed or it has changed.

I don't think it's there anymore.

It came in a polystyrene thing.

I want it in a pot.

I don't want it on a plate.

I want it in a polystyrene like eggshell cup thing that opens up.

And it would all melt.

Maybe there was some cheese in there.

It would all just over the on the journey home, it would all coagulate into an awful mush and that mush was just the most delicious thing we've ever had and it was one place

one time

uh i did have it a few times but you know you can't get that back and only you james a caster can recreate that for me and let me know what was in it yeah richard here's here's how you can get that back you can literally make what you just said it is the easiest possible thing to make it's a jacket potato with coleslaw chili sauce there's so many types of coleslaw There's so many ways to make coleslaw.

There's so many ways there are.

There's so many ways to make chili sauce.

And I could try and I would never recreate what that was.

And it was the gestation period of the walk home.

It was probably a 25-minute walk home.

Fine, you know that.

So do that.

I don't know what was in it.

I can't remember exactly what was in it.

I want to find out what was in it.

Have you ever tried?

No, because I don't know what was in it.

I would just want to re- I want to taste again that amazing thing.

What was the establishment called, if I'm going to get you this?

It was a van and there was a man in it and he sold jacket potatoes.

It was outside, I'd like to say

it's near Teddy Hall.

It wasn't quite outside Teddy Hall in Oxford.

It was just up the road from Teddy Hall.

Is that Queen's College?

I don't even know the names of the colleges are.

It was outside there.

It was, you know, it was a happier and simpler time where a jacket potato would make you delighted.

Yeah.

And that would be, that's, I would eat that as the Teddy Hall.

Teddy Hall.

That's an Edmund Hall.

Teddy Hall sounds like something you made up when you were eight.

Is this because you're changing now?

Is the change starting to kick in?

So you're saying things like Teddy Hall.

There he is.

Now,

I'm going to say something controversial now.

It might be controversial.

I hate jacket potatoes.

Okay.

They're so boring.

Not when you put coleslaw and chili sauce in them and they're like my friend.

They're a vehicle for something else.

just have some coleslaw and chili sauce and then you get horrible

the potato is really boring it's like a big boring rock not when it's well cooked and you know you need a very crispy i love a crispy slightly overcooked jack of potato where the the you know it's like eating a giant crisp

here we go

you're getting rid of all

you get rid of all the inside and then you've just got the crisp on the outside

thank fuck you didn't pick pop a drums your mouth would have been shreds by now.

I like Jackie Potato.

I think it's nice.

I don't like this argument a lot of people have for a lot of foods where they go, it's just a vehicle for other stuff.

All food, really.

It is.

All food is like you have to, for most meals, you have to combine all the stuff.

You don't eat everything as its own individual little ingredients.

They have to combine with stuff to enhance each other's flavours and bring stuff out.

Yeah, but that's not what the jacket potato is doing.

The jacket potato is not enhancing the flavor of anything.

It's just like a big, hot, edible plate.

But it's getting enhanced.

Like you put the other stuff in there and the jacket potato starts to come to life also i like he's right mashing up all the stuff in the jacket potato eating it having the skin there and then putting a big load of butter in the skin and then just

putting the skin and the butter in my mouth and eating that i like that too yes you've got to cook them you've got to cook them they've got to be hot they can't be greasy like you know thin

papery on the outside they've got to be burnt yeah so it's hard crust like uh like brian blesses foot it's basically got to be that's That's what you've got to be eating, like the skin on the bottom.

Why don't you just put loads of coleslaw in a glove?

Because you can't eat a glove, and the potato is delicious.

If there's a right amount of salt, butter, all those things in there, you've got to have a little bit of that mixed up.

Honestly, I've never had anything as good again.

My life is never when I was 21, that was as good as my life got.

I'm 52 now, still waiting for that baked potato.

Yeah, I think the narrative of a lot of your shows I've seen has been, my life's never been as good as it was then.

Yeah, well

while we all sit there going i don't know this seems pretty good richard no this is shit

well i think that's a nice side dish and we haven't had jacket potato before um because you don't know the specific name of this place though i think we should have to put all the ingredients you mentioned in the jacket potatoes so the cold floor and the hot sauce but also the garlic mayonnaise and did you say cheese yeah you said cheese at one point there might be some cheese there was but there would have been butter in there, I'm sure.

Yeah, so all those things.

You know, I think it was like, it was that.

It's difficult, isn't it?

Because you're drunk when you get to order this stuff.

And also nearly everywhere you go, they squirt like garlicky mayonnaise and all those different things.

But I think there was garlic, mayonnaise, and chili sauce in it.

I think that was the point.

Those are the important ingredients.

Okay.

I could do without the coleslaw, to be honest, if that was even in it.

And do you want it in the box?

Polystyrene, yellow, polystyrene.

I don't even like polystyrene.

That's one of my fears, is factors, polystyrene, but I want it in polystyrene.

So I'm frightened of it.

I don't like the sound that polystyrene makes.

Don't look surprised at me.

No, I'm not saying

I agree with you about the polystyrene, but then it's your dream meal.

Why are you wrapping your main cork in a fear?

That's what it came in.

And so you just got to open it carefully

and use the knife and fork carefully on it if that's how you're choosing to eat it.

Oh yeah, I'd like a fillet steak, please, but I'd like a clown to spit it into my mouth.

I like a little danger.

I like a little jeopardy in in my meals ed what can i say my brother kept one of those boxes in his car for months because um he loved the smell of it because it reminded him of a good burger he had called the triple burger fucking hell

he

he driven me to a gig that went really badly i was at open spot and he drove me to this gig in manfield and i went on it went awfully but in the interval he went out and there was this burger van and he got a triple burger which was literally one burger bun with three burgers in between and that was it that was all it was and he loved it and then he ate it in his car

and when we went home the thing was still in the back and then weeks later i got in the car i was like that triple burger box still there he went it still smells like the triple burger and he kept it in there

and it's a little memento it's like a mr ben memento sorry another 70s tv children's reference but you've got something there to remind you of what went by if you just have a plate it gets washed up doesn't it if you have a polystyrene thing you can leave that in the foot well of your car or just under your bed.

You always remember the lovely meal you had.

Sad end to the story, though, he left

his car, it failed its MOT or something, and he had to just leave it at the garage.

And he forgot the triple burger box, and he only realised when he got home and was like, Oh no, I left the triple burger box in there.

Can we rewind quickly, Richard?

Because you talked up this jack of potato, and then what sort of went under the radar just then is you went, I can take or leave the coleslaw.

I don't even know if it was in it.

I can't remember what was in it.

I just remember remember it was not.

I was drunk.

I just wanted to, I want to just be 21 again.

Just make me 21 again.

Don't you see this whole thing?

I want to be the bit.

I want to travel towards big eight, but stop it at 21 and be 21 and relive everything that's happened since then.

Can you do that with the fountain of youth water?

Or do you, do you have to sort of make yourself sick as you approach 21?

I reckon you could.

You never thought of that.

That would be

just spit a bit of it out.

Yeah.

Have it keeps on in your cheek.

And then as you're slowing down, it's like the time machine, the film where it's just trying to, the girls in the window, the shop dummies, just...

Just precisely stopping where you want to stop.

I want to stop outside that kebab van.

Your favorite drink.

Your dream drink.

Before you do that, I'm just quick, quick shout out again.

Yeah, chuck some donations into the stay-at-home festival, Cosmic Shambles Network.

There should be a link there.

I think you can give like a quid you can give two quid you can give upwards of that 10 grand whatever you've got if you if you can give 10 grand if you've got that and you want to give it look if you can afford to give something give something because it's a good cause and we're having a laugh

that's nice yeah

give some money yeah come on richard you're really good at getting people to give money do you

have enough hey come on guys look

If you've got some money, if you haven't got any money, enjoy this rubbish for free.

If you have got some money, put some money in.

If you're working, if you've got some money saved up, help people out.

Come on, guys.

We've got to get through this together.

Sorry, carry on with the meal now.

My drink, I think what I would like, the thing that my favorite drink is the beer you have on holiday, the local beer that you have on whatever holiday you're on, that you drink when you're on holiday.

But then when you come home and drink it, it's not as good.

Yep.

I would like to have the local beer that I drink on holiday, but be able to drink it here, and it is as good in this restaurant.

That's what what I would like I think we can all get on board with that Ed yeah yeah I'm totally on board with that that is a great observation and a great answer thank you very much at last we've got there uh the first but the first time this happened I did drink this beer for a long time which was the the Czech Budweiser Budvar I went to Czechoslovakia in about 1994 when it was like you know 50p for two pints of this stuff so i got heavily into it it was never as good when you weren't on holiday with a girl that you were in love with

as when you got home, but yeah, but every time you go to like a and Budvar's quite a good beer, so I would still drink that.

But whenever you go to like a

beach resort, there's always some lovely, amazing beer, and then you track it down.

And then it's just not the same as it.

Yeah, it's a telfer.

It'd be nice if you could somehow hold on to the magic of that, of the holiday beer.

And that's and no beer that I think I've had not on holiday is as good as a holiday beer.

Right.

Yeah,

I would like to experience a beer like that that tastes as good as a holiday beer.

Like I'd drink a Peroni on holiday.

I'm drinking a Peroni now and it's not that nice.

It's pretty horrible.

But in Italy the Peroni is really nice.

Yeah.

So it's just capturing that thing.

And it's weird though because you would think on holiday you don't need to drink alcohol because you're relaxing anyway.

But maybe it's something to do with that.

Maybe it's to do with the level of relaxation means that you could enjoy it.

Maybe it's just falsely thinking that if you're drinking something and it's sourced locally, it's better.

I don't know.

Maybe it's they maybe they'd send the bad stuff out as export.

Who knows?

It's just guilt-free, right?

On holiday, you're, oh, I'm on my holiday, it's fine.

And so you can just enjoy whatever, you know,

fatty foods, desserts, drinks.

Just do whatever you like.

It's fine.

I'm not exercising, but it doesn't matter.

I'm on my holiday.

Here, in the real world.

Everything you put in your mouth, you're like, oh, I hate myself.

I really need to sort my life out.

What am I doing?

Drinking a beer in my goddamn living room.

Oh, God, Jesus Christ.

james if if you feel like that when you put some fatty food or have a beer you must feel like that almost 24 hours a day yeah

why else do you think i'm a standard amphibian my man how much

how much are you drinking during this lockdown james yeah are you drinking every night uh no i for the first until lockdown was announced i didn't have anything so i was like about a week and a half in self-isolation and wasn't drinking lockdown was announced i was like cheers i I had one.

I've probably had a drinking night since then.

Last night, I didn't have anything.

Tonight, I wasn't going to have anything.

But as soon as you said that holiday beer anecdote, I thought to myself, I'm definitely having something after this.

Same here.

Are you locked down on your own, James?

Are you

in the...

No,

I'm here with my pen pal,

Jason McKenzie.

You should explain what's happened with Jason McKenzie, James.

Yes.

I've had a pen pal called Jason Mackenzie for some time now.

And me and Jason McKenzie decided to meet up uh the day before all this kicked off.

And he was here anyway, it was a long journey home, and so he has stayed here with me.

And me and Jason McKenzie, who is 58 years old, are

self-isolated together, are in lockdown together.

How long have you been?

How long were you pen pals for?

When did the pen pal relationship begin?

It's been pen pals for about 20 years now.

So, like,

I was was uh

uh 15.

when he was 38 or something yeah

he didn't tell me that straight away yeah he said he was 50 but uh eventually it came out and he was on his living

but now we're um when you say when you when you said he's traveled a long way do you want to let richard know where jason mackenzie's from your pen pal

london Jason Mackenzie is from the other side of London to me.

I'm in South London.

Jason Mackenzie lives in North London.

And I wanted to get a a pen pan.

That's a long way.

Yeah, yeah.

And like, you know, I didn't always live in London,

but now I do.

And my, you know, my view of it has been that me and Jason Mackenzie just have all of London covered between us.

We can send each other letters and let each other know what's going on in the north, what's going on in the south.

Paid a little visit, and now here we are.

Good.

Well, I'm glad there's someone there for you, James.

I was worried about you on your own.

Yes, no, don't worry.

It's all good.

Me and Jason Mackenzie are together.

And

Ed, are you co-habiting?

Yes,

I'm co-habiting with my fiancé.

Our wedding got postponed, Richard.

Oh, that's terrible.

Yes, Ed got cold feet.

Ed got cold feet and cancelled.

The virus has really helped me out here.

It was a narrow escape.

But we have rescheduled it, so I've got time to build the relationship.

Good, yeah.

I mean, there's nothing like being trapped in a flat with someone to make you find out if you really love them.

That's sort of what marriage is about.

You should really get trapped in the flat before you get married.

So you're doing it the right way around because you'll discover if you've made a terrible, terrible mistake or not.

Congratulations, Ed.

Thanks, guys.

Always nice when my pals are on board.

And now we arrive at the dessert.

My favorite course, however, I'm a little bit scared going into this.

I mean, the drink has made me a bit more optimistic.

Oh, that's something we could all get on board with.

We'd all love that.

But so far, it has been a bit of a weird menu of stuff that doesn't exist.

How dare you?

It all exists.

Everything exists that I've just exists in the past.

It's all in the past, as is this final one.

Is in the past, I don't want to eat anything I can eat

now.

Yes, and this is something I would this again, this is something from my past that is genuinely my favorite dessert.

And you won't know what it is because it's uh it's it's called Bella's Pudding

and it's named it's named after

my grandma's friend who's called Bella, not pudding, Bella.

She made

Bella pudding.

She made a...

Now,

I didn't like the top part of it.

The top part was like meringue that you get on lemon meringue pie.

I wasn't that bothered about it, right?

But the bottom bit, the bottom part of it.

You didn't like the top part of it.

What are you doing, Richard?

I didn't really eat the top part, but the bottom bit.

In every course so far, there's been a bit that you don't want to eat of it.

You sometimes have to put up with something you don't want to get to the thing that you really love.

Not in your dream meal!

You do.

Well,

I could say don't put the meringue on top.

But it was this like set caramel dessert.

Like I got a not quite a mousse.

I can't even describe what it is.

My grandma could make it.

Bella presumably could make it.

I never met Bella.

So my pudding comes in three parts, but all parts are Bella's pudding.

I would like to have a Bella's pudding made by Bella, which I never got to taste to see how my grandma did.

I would like a Bella's pudding made by my grandma, which is the most delicious pudding I've ever eaten.

If you scooped up the pudding

and just ate the

really nice set caramel, just I love caramel, but it was just incredible.

And I'd like the attempt that my mum and my sister did after my grandma was no longer making it, which wasn't anywhere near as good.

And I'd like to taste all three blind-tasted and work out and be able to identify which was which.

It reminds me of my grandma who's no longer with us.

It was, and it was, and it was a unique and amazing dessert.

And I like dessert, I like ice cream, especially.

I love caramel stuff.

And it was this just amazing, like cooked caramel, I think.

So because it had meringue on the top, so it must have been cooked somehow.

Was it like a creme caramel?

Was it like a wobbly kind of, or was it like a toffee cinder block?

What are you talking about

it was it was somewhere it wasn't like i creme caramel is one of my least favorite desserts because i don't like the texture of it so it wasn't that kind of that sort of weird texture that you get with creme caramel it was more like a mousse but it was not quite um it was sort of set but you know you put a spoon in and you wouldn't you didn't have to dig it would come so it was mousse like but

set like a like a sea it wasn't there was it wasn't bubbles in it i don't think i think it was just this brown caramel again i don't really remember much about it that's why i would like to have it again yeah so two of your courses so far you've demanded different versions of the same thing to test to see which is the best one look i'm gonna make the most of this opportunity do you not listen to the thing i said about desert island discs i have the opportunity to travel in time to get meals that i've forgotten about to get meals that i know i will never taste again and people on here choosing bloody pizzas and mcdonald's and nando's no bella's pudding who else has chosen bella's pudding No one.

It was the most delicious thing.

And I'm not sure my grandma cooked all that much, but that's all I remember her making us.

Was Bella's pudding after Bella's pudding, and we loved it.

Would you, when your grandma made it, would you scrape the top off and go straight to the bottom?

Or would you eat the top?

I would, I think I'd mainly ate the bottom.

I would have a little bit of the top, but you know, it's like...

I like meringues, but it was, you know, it's that whippy kind of meringue rather than like the solid meringue.

So it wasn't like...

My mum's very good at meringue.

She's not very good at Bella's pudding.

But, uh you know you can't have everything yeah have everything in your mother and a grandmother it's a good it's a good metaphor for life isn't it some of us are good at the meringue some of us are good at the caramel bottom yeah yeah and i would usually jet the bit the bottom bit was the bit i liked but you had to have the top bit otherwise it's not bella's pudding is it it's just some caramel that's richard's pudding and no one wants that

i'd invented it you've got to you've got to nod to the inventor of the pudding if it's called bella's pudding you can't go oh sorry bella i'm not eating half of that Sure.

You'd have to don't bother making it with that.

But I'd have much preferred it if they didn't make, put the thing on the top.

Do you know anything else about Bella apart from her pudding?

I don't know anything about it.

I googled Bella's pudding today mainly.

Wondering if anything would come up, but it didn't.

A lot of some Italian restaurants came up.

I don't know who Bella was.

She's presumably dead now because my grandma was 102 when she died.

Wow.

And had outlived all of her friends.

So I don't, and a little old lady didn't come up.

I would have loved it if she'd just come up and go, Rich, just one last time.

I've made you one last Bella's pudding before I go.

Don't scrape the top off, you prick.

Eat the top.

Eat the horrible top.

Maybe, like, Bella was a lady who had this amazing pudding and wouldn't reveal the recipe.

And then your grandmother killed her and stole the recipe off of her.

That could be.

It's like in that Inside Number Nine episode of the Magicians.

It's like that.

Yeah.

It could be that.

Well, that could have happened.

I hope so.

My grandma was a very nice lady.

Yeah.

But it would be nice to think she had that sort of past.

It was worth it.

It was that good.

And I'll never eat it again.

But now I have a genie, so I can.

No, I'm not going to have Ben and Jerry's ice cream I can go to the fridge and get.

I'm going to have a thing I can't possibly get except in a magic restaurant.

Desert Island Discs.

The fact you keep your ice cream in the fridge is completely believable now.

After talking to you about food for the last hour, it's very obvious that you keep your ice cream in the fridge.

Thank you.

My mother has just texted me saying,

I bet it was a caramel queen of puddings, is what my mum says.

Because a queen of puddings is like a dish that has meringue on the top.

And then it's like, it's almost like a bit of everything, Queen of Pudding, from what I remember.

And my mum thinks it's

a caramel.

I've looked it up, Richard, and the first recipe that comes up is Mary Berry's Queen of Puddings.

Are you sure that Bella didn't change her name for showbiz reasons?

let's have a look i will tell you if it's a queen queen of puddings oh that doesn't look like it at all no hold on um no i mean that's got maryberries queen of puddings that's not caramel inside that that's some kind of fruit compot thing in there yeah and it wasn't it wasn't meringue those are like problem meringues this was like like when you have a lemon meringue pie and it's just that like slightly not set meringue the meringue was horrible this is nothing like it okay nothing your mum your mum i don't no offense to your mum but she can do one i nearly said something ruder than that if she thinks that the queen of puddings is Bella's pudding.

Yes, I've looked

caramel queen pudding, and there's a lovely picture for a recipe of it there.

I don't know if you can see that.

Oh, very delicious.

Look at that.

Look at caramel.

The meringue is somehow green.

Yeah, that looks like the baked potato you had aside.

Caramel queen pudding.

I've got the green ones come up.

Yeah, that's not it.

That's not it.

Just to let, sorry, my future mother-in-law has just texted me saying that, I mean, and these are her words.

She's told me it's called a gypsy pudding, which I don't think is acceptable.

Josie Long mentioned that, and it's called something different now.

She mentioned that pudding.

Yes.

I think you're being very rude to Bella.

No, it's nothing like that.

No, yeah, that's so Josie Long talked about the gypsy tart, which is from Ken.

That's not that rude.

It's not a gypsy tart.

No.

That's nothing.

There's no meringue on top of that.

That's a pie.

There's no crust in the Bella's pudding.

It's like a set bit of gelatinous

caramel, sort of lovely, delicious all,

and a bit of horrible meringue on the top.

Veteran, I've just got a...

None of these are closed.

I've just got a text.

I've just got a text from Jason Mackenzie's mother.

And they say it might be a banana split.

Can you Google that?

I'll Google it.

I don't think it is that.

I don't think it is that.

It might be that.

I'll have a look.

There was definitely no banana.

No, that's not it, because that's a banana.

It's a banana with chocolate and cream.

I think people are commenting on the YouTube Live.

I don't know if anyone else has a guess.

And maybe our producer can let us know if there's any guesses popping up.

This is a great thing.

It's never been made by anyone.

If it was like another dessert that existed, I'd say, oh, can I have Queen of Puddings?

Can I have an offensive, racist named pudding named after Romani people, please?

It isn't.

Bella invented it.

She went to her grave without revealing the recipe.

My mum and sister had to try and recreate it after my grandma got Alzheimer's and couldn't remember how to make it.

And it died with Doris Hammond.

Don't bring the mood down, Richard.

Caramel, Queen of Puddings, has a set breadcrumb base and caramel sauce and meringue on top as in a lemon meringue pie.

Oh, did you hear the bit about the bread, the set bread base?

Did you hear that?

Do you hear me?

I thought the caramel base when I was going through what was in it.

No.

Is the caramel like treacle tart, Richard?

No, it's it's like delicious.

I can't, it was like, I can't quite remember.

I want to see it again so I can get it again.

But it was like a set caramel thing.

Not gloopy.

It was, it was more like a mousse.

Right.

I think it was a cold dessert.

I think it was a cold dessert.

What, like a lemon meringue, but caramel?

No, because lemon meringue has

lemon in it and a biscuity base, doesn't it?

It has a little pastry base.

There was no pastry, there was no biscuits.

It was just pure, lovely, some kind of caramel, moussey thing with horrible meringue on the top richard we've had some suggestions through from the youtube live um let's see if any of these are right um is it a roulard let me have a look is it a roulard

i don't think it's a roulard is it a caramel meringue pie

is it a pingo ice cream

is it a cherry pop is it a cherry popsicle is it angel delight It's more like Angel Delight than anything that anyone else has said.

So, except it's not as bubbly as Angel Delight, and it isn't Angel Delight.

Though, Angel Delight, I used to

make

a whole chocolate butterscotch delight and eat it all myself when I was 14.

It was great.

Do you ever do that?

No.

Okay.

We're still going to have some common ground there.

Whole big bowl of it.

Lovely.

No, it's none of those things.

It's Bella's pudding.

And no one has ever.

If anyone could create that recipe now, they would be a billionaire.

Okay, even though the top bit's shit.

scoop the top bit off

scoop it off eat the bottom bit what's your problem yeah is that too much work for you

not gonna go back to bella and go no sorry bella the great bottom bit's great but fuck what have you done with the top bit you've ruined it she's made a pudding it's named after her it's her one achievement a middle split old lady probably died in 1975 so we're still talking about her though aren't we we're still we're not talking about your grandma's friend are we James A.

Caster?

You're absolutely right.

We're not talking about any of my grandma's friends.

This day, we're still talking about it.

Yeah.

So, your water, you wanted the water from Big John, Little John.

Yeah.

Pop it onto bread.

You picked Indira bread and you'd like the whole table to be made of it.

Yes, please.

Not the whole table, like a tablecloth, weren't it?

Starter.

Salt and villain kettle crisps from the 1990s and salt and villain kettle crisps from today, so you can eat and compare them.

That's a starter.

Main course, four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie.

The birds survive and start singing.

Side dish, jacket potato from your last year of university with coleslaw, chili sauce, garnet mayone cheese from a band in Oxford.

You can't remember exactly where it was from.

It may or may not have had any of those ingredients in it.

Your drink, you would like the holiday beer, but it tastes like holiday beer when you're at home.

And drink, you would like three of Bella's puddings, one made by Bella, one by your grandmother, and one by your mum or your sister.

So you can taste them and compare them yet again.

And one of every suggestion that everyone's made, so I can discount them as being the real thing.

Yes.

So like about 10,000 desserts.

Yeah, you'll also have a caramel queen of puddings,

a gypsy pudding, a roulard, a caramel meringue pie, a pingo ice cream, a cherry popsicle, an angel delight, and I think it was a banana split.

Yeah, I'll have all of that.

A banana split's nice.

Excellent.

Yeah, you could have all those things.

I'll take the taste of meringue out of my mouth.

Yeah.

Banana split.

We have crashed the donations website.

I don't know if it was us personally or the donations website has just crashed.

So if it's not working at the moment, do set an alarm for tomorrow and give a donation for what you've just watched.

And also keep watching stuff.

Keep donating if you can.

We'd love to get a bit more money in.

And thank you very much for watching.

Thank you very much, Richard, for coming into the dream restaurant.

Thank you.

I loved it.

Thank you for having me.

And thank you, everyone, watching out there.

Bye-bye.

goodbye

well there we have it i think that went pretty well for our first ever live streamer james oh i really got the adrenaline pumping being live man oh the the rush of the crowd the front of the room oh oh man live performance

It was really odd because I've never really live streamed anything like that before.

And it feels very lonely when you're just sat in a room by yourself saying things, but then also also very odd to think that I think we had about 5,000 people watching the live stream as it went out.

Thank you if you're one of those people.

But a very weird feeling.

Ah, a lot of them.

They were out outside my flat.

I looked out the window.

They were all there.

Yeah, that's actually the opposite of

what we were trying to do.

Yeah.

It's like, stay at home, you guys, please.

Because it was part of the stay at home festival.

It was to raise money for artists who've been hit hardest in this time.

And if you want to donate, we'd love you to donate if you can.

James, you know the website, let's hear it.

Oh, yes, I do.

Cosmic Shambles.com forward slash stay at home.

That's the one.

Well done, Richard, as well for not saying yogurt.

Yeah, well done, Richard, for not saying yogurt.

And actually, Ed, while we're promoting websites, a friend of mine would like me to promote mckenzieartsandcrafts.co.uk.org.

Okay, so go ahead and check out that.

What sort of things

can you find on there, James?

Oh, just some arts and crafts that

a colleague of mine likes to make at home and is trying to sell to make a little money during this time.

It's a big real crisis.

A lot of people have been hit hard.

Before this, he wasn't into arts and crafts, but he's really found a knack for it lately.

I really recommend going on and buying some trinkets.

It's really, really great stuff, really top quality stuff.

So there you go.

For all your trinkets and needs, you can go onto the Mackenzie Arts and Crafts website.

Thank you very much for listening.

Oh, Richard nearly said yogurt, by the way.

I messaged him afterwards to tell him it was yogurt, and he said he nearly went there.

So

we were very, very close.

Off-menu will be coming out as normal on Wednesdays.

This is just a little bonus episode.

Perhaps we might do some more bonuses in the future.

So get donating if it's successful enough.

We might do some more.

Yeah, why not?

I tell you what, definitely not going to do anything if this one isn't successful.

I'm not following up a flop.

No way.

But for now, that was the off-menu menu of Richard Herring.

Thank you very much for listening.

Goodbye.

Goodbye.

Hello, I'm Carrie Add.

I'm Sarah.

And we are the Weirdos Book Club podcast.

We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival.

The date is Thursday, 11th of September.

The time is 7 p.m.

And our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies.

Tickets from kingsplace.co.uk.

Single ladies is coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September.

At the London Podcast Festival.

The rumours are true, Saturday, the 13th of September at King's Place.

Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet.