Jay's Must- Listens: Before You Text Your Ex… Listen to This! 5 Love Experts Share the SECRET to Let Go and Move On (Ft. Esther Perel, Mel Robbins, & Matthew Hussey)

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Speaker 2 A breakup can literally wreck your life. You could be doing so well in your career, and now you show up to work in the worst mood.

Speaker 2 You could have a great relationship with your family, but now every holiday season, all you can do is think about that person. You've got a great group of friends around you.

Speaker 2 They love you, but they're all in relationships and you feel like you're behind.

Speaker 2 You feel like you're not the one who's getting proposed to, you're not the one who's moving in, you're the one who's starting all over again.

Speaker 2 If you felt any of that, this episode is dedicated to you because I want your breakup to become a moment you look back on as the greatest pivot that ever happened in your life.

Speaker 2 The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty.
Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty.

Speaker 2 At one point in life, each of us gets our heartbroken. Maybe it was two years ago.
Maybe it was two months ago. Or maybe it was two days ago.

Speaker 2 But each and every one of us knows how painful a heartbreak can be. Because you're not only losing that person, you're losing the perception of the life you believed you were going to have.

Speaker 2 You're losing the version of you you were with that person.

Speaker 2 And you're losing losing the projection of this future that you were building together. What we don't realize about breakups is that we're actually living through grief.

Speaker 2 It's this slow aching loss that doesn't have a funeral. You're mourning a future that won't happen, trying to figure it out, all the sadness, the confusion, the anger.

Speaker 2 And often in the beginning, you think, I wish they would stay.

Speaker 2 I wish they'd be here forever and then sometimes you move into this phase of what did i do wrong what could i have done differently could i have held on could i have been better

Speaker 2 and then at some point you go between the two at the same time healing isn't linear it's messy it's raw it's deeply personal and so as you listen to this today whichever stage you're at in your breakup journey I hope it helps you.

Speaker 2 In this clip, relationship expert, therapist, and best-selling author of Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, and one of my favorite guests on the podcast, talks about how we expect a sense of closure.

Speaker 2 We want someone to give us this feeling, an understanding of why they left us. What was their reason? Why did they cheat on us if that was the case?

Speaker 2 And often we can spiral and go round and round in circles, hoping and expecting this answer. But we all know that answer rarely comes.
That person's not around anymore.

Speaker 2 They don't feel a responsibility to give it to us. And closure is something we continue to chase.
In this segment, she'll talk a bit about how you can find that and where it truly comes from.

Speaker 2 At the same time, she talks about how we need to acknowledge the value of what's lost. It's so important to really recognize how we've lost things in the past, the present, and the future.

Speaker 2 And she also tells us how to seek advice from our friends.

Speaker 2 We all want love, we all want support, but she gives a really clear insight to know which friends to be around when you're going through a breakup. Take a listen.

Speaker 2 I still find till this day that breakups seem to be the hardest

Speaker 2 relationship transition that people tend to go through, maybe apart from grief or maybe even similar. And I'd love your thoughts on that, but because it is a kind of loss, I think, that people feel.

Speaker 2 There was one person from the audience that we were connected with that had a breakup and they really they were together with this person for two years they really thought this is the person that they were going to spend their life with they really thought this was going in their direction they they felt that they actually had good like compatibility they were good at talking about things but then what felt like out of the blue to this person they just felt that this person was like i don't think this is going in that direction anymore and then things withered away quickly it's hard when you kind of you know and this is probably what you get all the time people don't feel a a sense of closure.

Speaker 2 They don't really understand. The other person's not doing a good job explaining it and doesn't want to or doesn't have the time.

Speaker 2 What are some of the steps that we need to take when we're kind of lost in that no person's land of,

Speaker 2 I thought I had something, it doesn't exist anymore?

Speaker 3 Well, first of all, loss is exactly, it's grief. And people go through the stages of grief.
And the stages of grief are not sequential.

Speaker 3 So they're actually meant for people who are experiencing terminal illness, denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance.

Speaker 3 But they're very apt, I think, for any kind of loss. And when you talk about a breakup, there can be denial, like, oh, you don't really mean that.
We really are compatible.

Speaker 3 And you try to talk the other person into maybe seeing the light that they can't see.

Speaker 3 You know, the anger is, how could you have led me on for this amount of time?

Speaker 3 You're such a terrible person. You wasted all my time.
You were lying to me this whole time. When the person wasn't, they probably truly you know, thought this was going somewhere.

Speaker 3 You know, the bargaining is, well, what if, you know,

Speaker 3 the person tells you maybe why they're breaking up with you? Like, I don't think that we're compatible in this way. And then you try to become the thing, you know, like, what if I did this?

Speaker 3 Or I can be more of this, or we can do this. And they're like, no, that's not really the way this will get solved.

Speaker 3 You know, depression, which is just the whole, I mean, it's so, because I think what people don't realize is it's not what you're losing just in the moment.

Speaker 3 It's you're losing the future that you had imagined. So you lose the past.
You lose like all the whatever amount of time you spent with that person.

Speaker 3 You built a life with this person and it's the dailiness. There's an intimacy to that dailiness.
There's a comfort. There's a safety of this person knows all these little quirks about me.

Speaker 3 You know, we have all these inside jokes. We have a shorthand.

Speaker 3 You know, this person asks how my day is. I know, you know, it's the dailiness of being with someone.
So you lose that. That's very lonely.
But then you also lose the future.

Speaker 3 You had built up a whole story about what your lives were going to be like in a year, five years, 10 years, 20 years.

Speaker 4 Gone.

Speaker 3 And you have nothing to replace it with right now because you don't know what it's going to look like yet. So the grief is real.
And I think people try to downplay it.

Speaker 3 They're like, why are you so sad about this? He was a jerk or she was a jerk or whatever. It's like, I'm sad because I lost something very important to me.

Speaker 3 And your friends need to realize that instead of just demonizing the other person, they need to realize like you lost something really valuable in your daily life, in the present, in the future, part of your past.

Speaker 3 All of that is gone now. So that's really hard.
I think the other part of then dealing with the grief is letting yourself feel it because it's real. No matter what people tell you, it's real.

Speaker 3 And the other part is the story that you're telling yourself about it is really important. So you might be telling yourself a story of the other person's terrible.
That might feel good in the moment.

Speaker 3 It might be something like, I'm bad, you know, like I'm not good enough. If I were only something else, this person would love me more, or I'm not lovable, or I'll never find anyone, right?

Speaker 3 Those are not helpful stories because it's not true. It's you were not compatible with this person for whatever reason, even though you thought you were.

Speaker 3 If the other person doesn't feel you're the right person for them, you're automatically incompatible.

Speaker 3 Right? You can't, you can't make it so that, well, they just don't see it. So we aren't compatible because the other person doesn't want to be with me.

Speaker 3 So many times I'll hear, you know, someone, even without a breakup, like someone will be dating someone and the person isn't really invested in the relationship maybe in the way that they would like them to.

Speaker 3 And the person sitting on my couch will say, but we're so compatible. We're so perfect for each other.
That person just has intimacy issues and I could just change them.

Speaker 3 Even if the breakup was about you think the person had intimacy issues, it doesn't really matter. The point is they aren't able to be with you.
So you are not compatible.

Speaker 3 And so that is, I think, very comforting to know. Like, we are just not compatible, even though it hurts a lot.
We're not compatible.

Speaker 3 And I have to sit with the pain of, I need to know that we were not compatible. And that's not going to jade me in other relationships.

Speaker 3 And I think that's the important thing. So many times we get into a new relationship after that and we punish the new person for something the old person did.
Yeah. Right.

Speaker 3 Like the old, the old person wasn't truthful with me, so I'm gonna like check your phone all the time. No, don't, don't like put someone in jail for a crime they didn't commit.

Speaker 3 So, you gotta really like know what are the wounds from this relationship, what am I learning from this, what does this teach me about me, about the other person, and then how do I move into a new relationship with hope and with caution

Speaker 3 and holding both hope and caution.

Speaker 2 Now, this next clip is from relationship expert expert and my good friend Matthew Hussey.

Speaker 2 What I love about this that I think is going to help so many of you is so many of us turn a breakup into self-blame.

Speaker 2 We think about all the things we got wrong, all the things we should have done better, all the things we could have done better, all the things we wish we did, and it becomes this almost self-critical version of a conversation.

Speaker 2 And because you've not got the other person to talk to anymore, it's something you're going through by yourself. Matthew talks about how you can shift in this situation.

Speaker 2 How do we go from this happened to me to how can I grow from this? Listen to this clip.

Speaker 2 If you're struggling right now with blaming yourself for the breakup you just went through, let's talk a bit about breakups because

Speaker 2 I think the challenge is that everyone in their life goes through at least one or two, maybe more, really painful breakups, whether it's infidelity, whether it's out, it feels out of the blue, someone just goes, yep, not working out for me anymore, whether it's different goals and different plans and priorities that emerge over time.

Speaker 2 And I think everyone who goes through a breakup blames it on themselves often. thinks that this is the end, there'll never be another person.

Speaker 2 And it feels like a really dark, dark, dark, empty road and a lonely road.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I think it's really interesting because there's so many, you know, pieces of advice and everything about like how to get over a breakup.

Speaker 2 And I've talked about that as well myself, but I just find that it seems to be a path that you have to walk and have to take.

Speaker 2 And there's no real acceleration or there's not, as you said, there's not like, I'm going to get over this breakup in three months, right?

Speaker 2 There's no timeline or deadline that you can set on it, but it's just uncomfortable. And it's almost like sitting in discomfort.
What do we do when we're sitting in that discomfort?

Speaker 5 Well, when you're in the depths of it, because there's different phases, right?

Speaker 5 Like there's a certainly a phase of any heartbreak when it's genuine, deep heartbreak where you are just questioning your existence, where you are like,

Speaker 5 I, this,

Speaker 5 you know, I remember having my own heartbroken and sitting on this door, the doorstep of my house with a friend of mine

Speaker 5 and just with tears in my eyes saying to him I just feel like I'm not good enough like that was my deep sense was that I am not good enough and if I was good enough I would have been able to make this work

Speaker 5 and

Speaker 5 and that's a that's a horrible place to be

Speaker 5 and you you know we have to have compassion for ourselves in those times because

Speaker 5 it's brutally difficult

Speaker 5 It's a time where we just need

Speaker 5 love and we need to celebrate the fact that we got through another day and that we got, I managed to get out of bed today.

Speaker 5 And,

Speaker 5 you know, it was a act of, it was a heroic act for me to just get out of bed. We then have to, you know, I always think that all of these moments give us gears that we wouldn't have had otherwise.

Speaker 5 And the worst pain of my life has given me access to gears that I didn't know I had.

Speaker 5 And as much as no one wants to hear it when they're in it, those gears turn out to be really valuable.

Speaker 5 They really do. I mean,

Speaker 5 we all choose suffering in our lives. Like we choose to go to the gym.
That's choosing suffering. We choose like to write a book.
That's choosing a form of suffering.

Speaker 5 We choose to make a podcast or we choose to climb a literal mountain or like we choose pain

Speaker 5 in our lives regularly because we know that it gives us, there are benefits to be had.

Speaker 5 I have to argue that the benefit I have gotten from the pain that I didn't choose has been no less valuable than the benefit I've gotten from the pain I did choose. In fact,

Speaker 5 Actually, I think the most valuable pain I've ever had is the pain I didn't choose. And when you realize that,

Speaker 5 you can kind of almost, I think, look at some of the worst moments of your life

Speaker 5 as like a menu of pain.

Speaker 5 And beside the item on the menu is the very specific, unique benefits that can only come from this kind of pain.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 you can kind of imagine yourself choosing,

Speaker 5 like retroactively choosing that pain, which is a very valuable thing to do because I was told by a psychologist about an experiment on rats rats where

Speaker 5 one rat was on a wheel and was just given you know like the free reign to just run whenever it wanted to run there was another rat this was rat a rat b was connected to that wheel he was on another wheel that was connected to rat a's wheel

Speaker 5 and anytime rat a chose to run rat b had to run

Speaker 5 right so both doing the same amount of exercising.

Speaker 5 But at the end of the experiment, rat A shows all the positive markers of exercise and rat B shows all the negative markers of stress.

Speaker 4 Oh, wow.

Speaker 5 Same amount of exercise, what's the difference? Well, rat A chose to run, rat B didn't.

Speaker 5 And there's something profound about that to me, because if we can take a situation that we didn't choose, who would choose to be heartbroken, right? It's the worst. It's a terrible pain.

Speaker 5 But what if in that pain you did realize like there is something

Speaker 5 here that I'm going to gain from this experience that I couldn't have any other way?

Speaker 5 That if I look on that menu of pain, this one has some really good benefits. Like this one has some really amazing stuff.

Speaker 5 Who I'm going to have to become to get through this, what I'm going to have to learn, the way I'm going to have to get comfortable, even just to get through a weekend

Speaker 5 right now on my own

Speaker 5 is going to be this unbelievable feat.

Speaker 5 And to get comfortable in my own company and to sit in this pain. And

Speaker 5 there are such profound benefits from that. What if I did actually look at those benefits and say, they're so powerful.

Speaker 5 that I'm going to choose this pain so that I can experience those benefits.

Speaker 5 And so you you turn yourself from rat B to rat a and all of a sudden you're not a victim of that pain anymore you're you're the beneficiary of these exquisite gifts that you could only get this way

Speaker 5 and that

Speaker 5 that's only there's one tool i've used to get through some of the worst worst pain of my life and then on a practic and on a psychological level with heartbreak What I always remind people is that if

Speaker 5 anyone who doesn't choose choose you cannot be for you they if they don't see you like what is a relationship it's someone sees you they accept you and they want that

Speaker 5 that's that's the most beautiful part of a relationship so if someone doesn't see you and accept you and want what they see

Speaker 5 then this relationship is missing the most beautiful part of any relationship. It shouldn't even be, you know, it shouldn't be desirable at that stage because it's not,

Speaker 5 it has failed the fundamental test of what makes a relationship worth having we're not talking about a person who you know in in at least the case i feel we're talking about the person who was taken from us by life we're talking about a person who's just walking around somewhere still existing on the planet but choosing not to be with us

Speaker 5 that should lose its romance to us

Speaker 5 you know and and to say well if that's the other game we is if it was a different time in life, if they were a bit older, they would have been ready to commit.

Speaker 5 If they had been in a different phase where they weren't so busy with their work, they might have had the space to really give to this relationship, but they said their work isn't allowing them to.

Speaker 5 If it's like we go through all these scenarios where it

Speaker 5 forces us into this sad love song of right person, wrong time.

Speaker 5 And that's a really like pernicious story.

Speaker 5 That's a very dangerous story because

Speaker 5 it takes what belongs in the realm of science fiction and brings it into our reality.

Speaker 5 When we're thinking about an ex from like five years ago and we're like, I miss them. I don't know what, you know, you don't even know who they are anymore.
That was five years ago.

Speaker 5 They're a different person now in many ways. You're a different person now in any way.
If you got together now, you'd be getting together as different people. You miss a ghost.

Speaker 5 Person doesn't exist anymore in the way that you think they do. You know, and when you're saying, oh, if only we met five years from now, it would have worked.
In what parallel universe?

Speaker 5 It's a, this is science fiction. Like it's not, it didn't happen in this universe.
So it's, it's like it is wishing

Speaker 5 for a parallel universe where everything, all the dominoes unfolded in a different way. It's not this universe.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 5 just, we have to get out of this mindset because it gets us bought into

Speaker 5 a science fiction story that doesn't really exist. I don't believe in the right person at the wrong time.
It's the right person is right

Speaker 5 in their personality.

Speaker 4 They're ready

Speaker 5 and their life is compatible with yours. If you're missing one of those three things, then it's not the right person.

Speaker 5 The right person has to be more than than someone who you have a great time with and you like who they are and have great conversation and great intimacy.

Speaker 5 That's not the only criteria for someone who's right.

Speaker 5 So we have to stop telling ourselves the story that someone who, you know, broke up with us or it was bad timing or whatever is the right person for us.

Speaker 5 That is just a story. It is not reality.

Speaker 5 The right person is the person it happens with.

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Speaker 2 I'm sure you've thought about this before. We all have this feeling.
Did I meet the right person at the wrong time? Or did I meet the wrong person at the right time?

Speaker 2 And we can kind of get lost in that phase. This next clip from Stefan Speaks is for you.
If you're one of those people who's wondering, oh, did I just lose the right person for me?

Speaker 2 Did I just let go of the person who I was meant to spend my life with? Did I just make a mistake and

Speaker 2 lose the right person and meet them at the wrong time? This clip is going to help you make sense of that.

Speaker 2 What he's also going to talk about is the impact it has on us when our partner no longer wants to communicate with us.

Speaker 2 Maybe you're in a relationship where your partner doesn't like to have difficult conversations. Maybe they don't like to talk about emotions.

Speaker 2 Maybe they don't have the capacity to go to that depth with you.

Speaker 2 And if they're getting everything else right, maybe it's possible. But if you're starting to feel this weakening the relationship, Stefan speaks really clearly on how to make a decision.

Speaker 2 So if you're stuck in that point, this clip's really going to help you as well.

Speaker 2 And if you're someone who feels like you keep making the same mistakes, maybe you keep picking the same person, just someone that looks different.

Speaker 2 Maybe you keep being too needy or too wanting or too demanding, or maybe you always end up trying to fix their problems and solve their life.

Speaker 2 If you found a recurring pattern in your relationship and you want to know how to interrupt it and break it, this clip's for you. Take a listen.

Speaker 4 Letting go doesn't always mean it can't work out later. It's just that it cannot work out under these circumstances.
All right. Because some people say, well, I feel like they're the one.

Speaker 4 Okay, maybe they are, but maybe the time is not right.

Speaker 4 And it's letting go that will allow you both to do what needs to be done in your own personal lives that will allow you to to come back together and and have something way more amazing.

Speaker 4 So that's number one thing to consider. But outside of that, it's when, one, if that person is unwilling to put in the work necessary, it's time to go.

Speaker 4 There's like so many times I'll have a video go up about communication and someone will comment saying, I've tried talking to him and he doesn't want to talk to me.

Speaker 4 And in my head, I'm like, but why are you still with them? If he refuses to talk to you, you've already tried. There's nothing else to do.

Speaker 4 But people will let it linger on and continue while they can, while they consistently complain or unhappy about this specific issue. It's not going to magically get better.

Speaker 4 They're not going to just change it just because all of a sudden they see, oh, it needs to change. No, if they're fighting it now, they have no reason to change it.

Speaker 4 And what people have to understand, you know, especially with this whole trying to fix people up. Healing and facing your traumas is one of the hardest things for people to do.

Speaker 4 So if they already have you in their life, they're essentially getting the incentive or the benefit of relationship without having to do the deeper work.

Speaker 4 It's almost like if I'm at a job and the job says you need to have a master's degree to work here, but we're going to hire you anyway and give you time to get that master's degree.

Speaker 4 If getting that degree is super hard to you, you're going to drag that out as long as possible. You may never get the degree until they fire you.
When they fire you and you realize, oh my gosh,

Speaker 4 if I don't do this, I'll never get this person back. I'll never get this opportunity back.
Now they might go and get it because it's very tough to walk down the path of the healing process.

Speaker 4 So if they're not willing to work on it, you guys have already discussed it.

Speaker 4 And I think that's a big thing because there's a lot of relationships that end and the couples don't even know what the real issue was.

Speaker 4 So the communication, they'll say, well, we talked about, no, you guys argued. You guys lashed out.

Speaker 4 There wasn't a clear communication as to what the problem was, what is expected, how do we go about this?

Speaker 4 If you've done that, and I believe one of the most effective ways to do that is through a letter, because I feel like verbal communication of deep issues and concerns, they typically don't go well.

Speaker 4 You know, people get distracted, they forget what they want to say, the other person gets defensive, they're not, they're listening to a rebuttal not to understand.

Speaker 4 But when there's a letter involved, it gives you time to get everything out.

Speaker 4 You can evaluate your tone, leave no stone unturned. And now they have an opportunity to process it on their time, to really take it in.
And then you guys can come together and discuss the letter.

Speaker 4 And now it's so much easier to stay on point and get everything covered. If we've done that and they're still unwilling or there's still no progress, it's time to go.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's great. That's great advice.
And I, for me, that's the biggest one. It's like, you can't make something last if only one person's working on it.

Speaker 2 You can't keep hoping and waiting and wishing. And, and like you said, that ending doesn't mean forever.
And often I've found that two people need to grow individually to be able to grow collectively.

Speaker 2 And we're forcing growing together so hard, but we need space to grow.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 if you can't grow together, chances are you need to grow apart in order to see whether you grow together again or grow for someone else.

Speaker 2 And all of those options are okay, but we put so much pressure on people to grow together that they grow apart.

Speaker 2 And actually, if they chose to grow apart and grow separately, they could come back together if they learned the lessons.

Speaker 2 And I think that's a mistake too, that sometimes people think, I'm going to go learn this lesson for this person. I meet a lot of people.

Speaker 2 They're like, okay, they broke up with me because I wasn't XYZ. Now I'm going to go become XYZ to win them back.

Speaker 2 And I always find, I'm just like, well, no, you should go become XYZ if you think you are missing XYZ, but not to win them back because you don't know what they're going to do.

Speaker 2 What's your take on people trying to win people back?

Speaker 4 So I 100% agree with you. Like if we're trying to learn or grow, it needs to be for the benefit of who we are.
and just whoever we deal with.

Speaker 4 So it's almost like if I was a bad communicator in this relationship, I shouldn't learn to better communicate for that person. I need to better communicate for whoever I'm going to be with.

Speaker 4 If you can't see it in that light, then maybe you're looking at the wrong thing. My thing is this.

Speaker 4 I think it all depends on what the details of the situation was, what led to the breakup, what were you overlooking, what was missing, are these fixable issues?

Speaker 4 Because a lot of people are trying to win back someone where the issues are not resolved. So it's like, what's the point of going back? We're just going to go in the same cycle all over again.

Speaker 4 They're letting this idea of, I miss them, I don't want to be without them, blind them from the fact that you you two did not get along well, or you two don't want the same things, or you two just, whatever it is, maybe there's a lack of sexual satisfaction.

Speaker 4 I don't know why I felt the need to mention that, but that's what it happens a lot of times. You have to stay focused on what led to the end and can this be corrected? If it can, cool.

Speaker 4 But as you mentioned, correcting it does not guarantee you they're coming back.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 4 even if they will come back, you don't know when.

Speaker 4 They may need, so you may have figured yourself out in six months. They might need a year.
And I would argue if you guys are truly meant for each other and they needed a year, you need a year too.

Speaker 4 You're just overlooking some things and you're rushing the process because you want to get back to them. Yeah.
It's, I've never found a situation where it was truly only one person.

Speaker 4 who had problems and the other person was squeaky clean. No, no, no, no, no.
You thought you were.

Speaker 4 But you had some stuff too, you needed to correct.

Speaker 2 Of course.

Speaker 4 So I think we have to be honest with ourselves and just keep striving to be better. And rather than focus on winning them back, just become the best you.

Speaker 4 Because if you do and there's a true connection there, the opportunity will present itself again and you too will be able to make something of it.

Speaker 2 And the struggle is that when people finally make that decision to break up, or let go,

Speaker 2 the studies show that the parts of your brain that are activated in a breakup are the same as detoxing from cocaine.

Speaker 2 Right? Like you're literally trying to detox so you can have a craving for someone that's bad for you.

Speaker 2 Or also it says that the areas of the brain that are activated in a breakup are the areas that are the same with physical pain.

Speaker 2 So if someone like punched you in the stomach, The reason why we say like my heart feels broken is because it literally feels like something's broken.

Speaker 2 So when you're going through a breakup, when you're feeling the craving to be with that person again, studies show that over 80% of people are looking at what their exes are doing on social media, right?

Speaker 2 Probably through a Finster account or whatever.

Speaker 2 But you have to know, what are some of the healthiest tips that you've given to people and the people that you've worked with that have genuinely helped people move through a breakup?

Speaker 4 The first thing is to ask yourself, again, why was I even there? Why am I holding on to this individual? Again, I think sometimes we get so blinded

Speaker 4 just the experience or our desire to have this person for whatever reason that we overlook what was really missing or why this could not work anyway what you'll also find is and i'm sure there's probably a study on it where if you if they broke up with you you ever see a situation it happens on tv a lot where the person can be like okay i'm gonna break up with my partner they're planning on it they've been practicing in their head right it took them a couple weeks to muster up the strength they're about to do it and then the partner breaks up with them yeah now it's, oh my gosh, I got to get them back.

Speaker 4 Yeah. So it's like, you just forgot this whole time that was your plan.
Yeah. They just gave you the pass to do it.

Speaker 4 But now, because we don't like to be the one being let go of, now we're fighting hard to get it back. Yeah.
So we have to really not fall into these little traps that happen to us as human beings.

Speaker 4 Our brains is playing tricks on us or something where we confuse these emotions for, oh my gosh, I must really love them. Or even like you said, you go into that detox.

Speaker 4 And because you miss, I always tell people, no matter how bad a relationship was, there's always good moments.

Speaker 4 So if you're trying to break free, you can't just let your brain focus on the good moments. You have to remind yourself why this doesn't work.

Speaker 4 But if you keep focusing on the good, you start to make yourself think, oh, because I missed this good moment, I must miss them.

Speaker 4 And there's this quote that says, sometimes you're not missing the person, you're missing the feeling. So you've got to be able to differentiate those two things.

Speaker 4 So getting back to how we get over these breakups is recognizing why were we really there to begin with? You know, could this actually work?

Speaker 4 The next thing is, you know, I'm a huge believer that a lot of times a breakup is a blessing in disguise. Even if there is a chance that you two can work together or this is the one for you.

Speaker 4 You may have needed this time to re-evaluate and get things in order. Something is obviously wrong.

Speaker 4 Even if you, it may be something as deep as, because I've seen situations where everything was going amazingly well on the surface and the person broke up with them.

Speaker 4 Let's say the woman lets go of the man. So to the man, that's really confusing.
But what it was is that that woman, she had not healed from her past relationships.

Speaker 4 And this relationship being so good was scaring her. And what happens is the better you are, the scarier it becomes for her.
She's looking for something to be wrong.

Speaker 4 She has to validate her fear somehow. When she can't find it, she'll either sabotage the relationship or she'll run from it.
So to that man, it may seem like this is so unfair, which yeah, it sucks.

Speaker 4 But if this woman didn't break up with you now, you were inevitably going to face this same ending, but at a worse time.

Speaker 4 All right. This is still best that it's happening now.
At least if she can go do what she needs to do, there's a chance for this to come back around later.

Speaker 4 But it's hard for us to see it in the moment. So I think just really, we also have to focus on our healing.

Speaker 4 Whenever a breakup happens, the mistake we make is that we think it's about healing from the breakup. No, it's healing from everything you've been through.

Speaker 4 You've probably been sleeping under the rug your childhood trauma for years, maybe the last two, three relationships, whatever it is.

Speaker 4 So And not healing from those things is contributing to your struggle to get past this breakup and contributing to why you even chose this person to begin with.

Speaker 4 I'm a huge believer that if you haven't healed, you are 90% likely to choose the wrong person. Yeah.

Speaker 4 It's just too difficult to pick that person that you truly love and can truly love you and accept that level of vulnerability when you have still not resolved your past traumas and past hurts.

Speaker 4 So to me, that's the next big thing is just focus on your healing process because in that process, you will also be able to see more clearly if this is really for you or not.

Speaker 4 Like walking around unhealed is like walking around with broken glasses. You can't see straight no matter how hard you try, but healing will clear up your vision really, really fast.

Speaker 4 And now it'll be like, oh, wait a minute, I didn't belong there. Yeah.
You know, thank God the breakup happened. You know, now I'm in a better place.
I move forward.

Speaker 4 So to me, I think, and I would say in addition to those things, is just have an accountability partner.

Speaker 4 Whether that's friend, coach, therapist, someone that can help keep you in check, help remind you what you need to do, someone that you know you have to talk to and update what's going on so that you feel like, okay, I don't want to come back to them saying I'm doing the same thing over and over again.

Speaker 4 It doesn't guarantee success, but it helps. It helps move the needle some.
So I would highly encourage that.

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Speaker 2 That one mindset you spoke about there that changes everything, and it hit me today. I was just thinking:

Speaker 2 if we were just able

Speaker 2 in a moment to recognize that something painful now was going to be good for us in five years time

Speaker 2 that would change so many things in our life yes but we're so poor at dealing with current pain yeah even if it means future joy

Speaker 2 that we just can't accept that i have to go through this like in everything right like knowing that someone breaking up with you just saved you 10 years of a wasted life is so much more than knowing you're going to have to go through a few months of pain and 10 months of of pain.

Speaker 2 Maybe it's a bit longer. Maybe it's two, three years.
But

Speaker 2 we just have to get our head around that, that sometimes the best things that happen to you are protecting more of your life than the pain that they're causing.

Speaker 4 You need the peace of knowing I did what I needed to do.

Speaker 2 That's it.

Speaker 4 Because anytime you feel like, well, I could have done this, but I could have done, that leaves the door open for doubt. Do it all.
Exactly.

Speaker 4 So it's like, and that's why I'm such a big believer in, you know, there's people who say, well, once they're done, they're done. They'll just move on.
And I'm like, no, no, no. Express yourself.

Speaker 4 Get everything off your chest because you don't need anything to linger. And you questioning, well, what if I did this different? No, make sure to speak your full peace.

Speaker 4 And now you can say, all right, I did what I had to do. It is what it is.
I move forward. And I mean, it makes it easier.

Speaker 4 It may not make it 100%, you know, not an issue whatsoever, but it's going to be easier. And I'll say, also, for me, that's why like

Speaker 4 my relationship with God is so important because that's where I find my peace in dealing with a situation that doesn't work out the way I want to.

Speaker 4 I always tell myself, okay, if this isn't working out, God has something better for me.

Speaker 4 You know, if this is happening right now, there's a purpose because I know if I followed his guidance throughout this process,

Speaker 4 there's no need for me to question why is this the current outcome. There is a reason for this, and I've been through these things enough times to see, as you mentioned, the reward is going to come.

Speaker 4 It may come next week, it may come years from now, it will come. And I'll be able to see how it all connected.

Speaker 2 Now, be honest with with me. How many of you have gone through a breakup and then just started craving your ex?

Speaker 2 Where you're now looking at their social media profiles, you're looking at old text messages, you're talking to your friends who know that person and trying to find out what they're up to.

Speaker 2 It can drive us crazy because breakups can actually make you crave your ex like an addiction.

Speaker 2 That's what our next guest, New York Times best-selling author Esther Perell, and relationship therapist for decades talks about in this clip.

Speaker 2 We also learn about how a lot of the challenges that we face in our relationship, a lot of the conflicts actually come from our own fears.

Speaker 2 If you find yourself always being insecure in a relationship, If you're always second guessing that person's intentions, if you're always questioning whether they're truly emotionally available or really care for you or really there for you,

Speaker 2 this clip is for you. I've seen research that shows how when someone breaks up with you or when you break up with someone,

Speaker 2 you almost crave them like we crave an addiction that may even be unhealthy for us at times.

Speaker 2 Why do you use the word grief and can you walk us through both of those losses of identity that you spoke about on either end?

Speaker 6 So grief is because I think every choice comes with loss. The consequence is the choice you didn't make.

Speaker 6 And even though you think this is the right choice and this is what I must do, the grief may be the fact that you were not capable of making this thing work.

Speaker 6 Or that you had such high hopes and it didn't materialize. Or that you have wished that you didn't make some mistakes that you made.
Or that you wish you had left sooner.

Speaker 6 There's lots of dangerous ways. But there is no choice that doesn't have

Speaker 6 loss and therefore some grief attached to it. And that is the nature of the beast.
That does not mean that you didn't make the right choice. In terms of heartbreak, it's a different part.

Speaker 6 Yes, some people experience heartbreak with such an ache, with such a sense of longing and such a sense of fracturing on the inside that

Speaker 6 their longing becomes obsessive, that they are trapped in rumination, and that it experiences like a withdrawal.

Speaker 6 That is not all breakups, but that is the extreme kind of breakup which has been compared to an addiction because of the intense sense of withdrawal and because it takes place in the same centers in the brain.

Speaker 2 And you talked about there how, you know, trying to change the other person

Speaker 2 isn't necessarily the focus, but for so many of us, that seems to be the problem. The problem seems to be the other person's behaviors, their attitude, their approach to life, maybe their aspirations.

Speaker 2 I hear a lot of people say things like, they don't dream enough. They don't dream, they dream too little, right? Like it's too much.
Sorry, that's it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I hear some people say they, they don't dream enough, they dream too much.

Speaker 2 I hear people say, oh, they have too many friends, they have no friends, right? I see people at both ends of the spectrum, we always seem to have issues with how our partners live.

Speaker 2 And what I've learned, at least in my own personal reflection and I've found is that for a long time

Speaker 2 In my relationships, I often projected the way I lived onto my partner.

Speaker 2 And we so strongly believe that the way we live is right, the way we were brought up is right, that we want our partner to kind of follow suit.

Speaker 2 And I always give this very small example from my own home, but in my house, we used to eat, hang out, and then at the end of the night, we'd wash the dishes.

Speaker 2 In my wife's home, they used to eat, wash the dishes, and then hang out.

Speaker 2 And so when we got married and we started living together and when we were having friends over or whatever it may be, in my mind, we're going to eat, we're going to hang out, and then we're going to wash the dishes.

Speaker 2 And in my wife's mind, she's thinking, we're going to eat, now we have to clean up, make sure everything's clean, and then we can hang out. And something as little as that can cause so much

Speaker 2 friction and bad communication and feelings of, oh, you don't care about me and you don't love me and you don't appreciate me or you don't value the work.

Speaker 2 And there's so much that comes from something. And that's just a very small example.

Speaker 2 But it's interesting to me that in that scenario, we both had not created a new belief system for our relationship, but were operating based on two old belief systems that we'd simply adopted.

Speaker 2 Walk us through whether you agree, whether you disagree, whether you can edit that, reveal more to us about

Speaker 2 I find so many of our challenges exist because we project. our operating system onto someone else rather than creating one with them.

Speaker 6 I like the way you call it the operating system. So I'm going to take a sentence that you highlighted and start from there.

Speaker 6 You said, here we were were fighting about what's the right moment to do the dishes, but in fact, what we were talking about is you don't care, you don't see me, you don't appreciate me, you want it your way.

Speaker 6 And what you're highlighting here is something that I've actually talked a lot about in a new course that I'm doing on conflict, which is exactly that. How do you turn conflict into connection?

Speaker 6 And one of the things I say is that it's not what you fight about, it's what you fight for.

Speaker 6 You were fighting for recognition, you were fighting for power and control, you were fighting for respect, you were fighting for trust and closeness.

Speaker 6 Underneath the fight, there are usually three sets of issues that we are actually fighting for. And that is power, trust, and value.

Speaker 6 So, you don't value me. You know, I worked on this dish, on this cooking, I made this nice meal, I prepared, I tried to be kind to your friends, and you don't value me.

Speaker 6 Once you've understood what is the hidden dimension that you are actually fighting for, the fight, the dishes, the when to do them becomes a lot more clear.

Speaker 6 A lot more clear. Rather than it's not just I'm imposing my belief on you and I wanted to do my way because my way is the right way.
That's you may think this way.

Speaker 6 But the question is what happens when you have to confront yourself with someone who is different. I mean, everything about relationships is about straddling sameness and difference, you know?

Speaker 6 And when you are a couples therapist, it's very typical that people come to you and they're like a drop-off center, right? They tell you, you know, here, my relationship, here's my partner.

Speaker 6 Let me tell you what's wrong with them, and maybe you can fix them, and I'll help you.

Speaker 2 I'll be your adjunct

Speaker 6 on how to make my partner understand why my family's way of doing things is the best way of doing things. It's a very good way.

Speaker 6 And so then the question is: if you you have to change your mind, does that mean that it's a loss of your identity? Or can you actually experience that as an expansion, as something that you let in?

Speaker 6 How do you let the other person influence you without being constantly in a defense of your, you know, this is my flag and here are my values or my operation system?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I really, really relate to what you're saying. And I love how you've broken it down to what we're fighting for versus what we're fighting about.
I think that's brilliant.

Speaker 2 And that's from your masterclass, right?

Speaker 6 No, this is from my own new course.

Speaker 4 Oh, this is from your own new course.

Speaker 6 I am coming out with very soon. And that is really about letting people have a very different view and set of skills for handling conflict.

Speaker 6 Like this one.

Speaker 6 You know, at first it was a nice thing you didn't fight about. You just said, we do it.
Oh, that's so interesting. No, let's do it now.
No, let's.

Speaker 6 And then slowly, because you couldn't come into a unified agreement, it became a point of contention.

Speaker 6 And then that point of contention became the go-to every time you need to talk about your backgrounds, your values, your style, your priorities, your way of doing.

Speaker 2 I think we feel so robbed, or at least when I speak to people about this, they feel so robbed, as you said, of their identity.

Speaker 2 But also, as you said, people feel robbed of their power that if I give in to this other person,

Speaker 2 my partner may be the more powerful one in the relationship. Or if I concede, then in the future, when we're making decisions, they're going to think I'm going to concede.

Speaker 2 And often that is the case that people get into relationships because they think the other person is submissive or conceding to them or agrees with them on everything they say.

Speaker 2 And then one day that person goes, wait a minute, I didn't realize I just gave up everything I care about for you. And so how does one learn how to practice that humility and giving up of power?

Speaker 2 Or is the solution a unified agreement, as you called it, just there?

Speaker 2 What are we trying to unravel? How do we do that? Because I think that.

Speaker 6 But you just betrayed yourself in the question.

Speaker 6 Your whole question is framed in power terms. Concede, acquiesce, give in, loss of self-sufficiency of power.

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 6 Some people feel this way. That is one frame for some people to enter into a relationship.
But if I actually change the word power, I could go like this.

Speaker 6 In every relationship, you will find that there often is one person who is more afraid of losing the other,

Speaker 6 and one person who is more afraid of losing themselves.

Speaker 6 One person more afraid of abandonment and rejection, therefore more likely to acquiesce, to pacify, to placate, to say yes, until maybe one day not.

Speaker 6 And one person more afraid of suffocation, and therefore they fight for their ideas, their ways of doing it, the timing of the dishes. And that is less about power.

Speaker 6 That is more about the nature of connection.

Speaker 6 The majority of power struggles in a relationship are not power struggles. Power is the defense.

Speaker 6 The control battle is the way people are defending, trying to get something for something else that they are worried about. It's the surface behavior.

Speaker 6 You know, some people, when they're afraid, they fight. But the issue is not fighting.
The issue is that they're actually actually afraid and they're trying to deal with their fear by gaining control.

Speaker 6 So don't just go for what you see because what you see isn't necessarily just what it is. Go always looking at a level below.
Otherwise, you're going to have a lot of this.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Now, the most painful thing that we all feel when we go through a breakup is that we don't even lose faith in that person.

Speaker 2 We start to lose faith in love.

Speaker 2 And especially, we start to feel not only do they not love us, we start to question whether we're worthy of love. We feel unlovable.
We feel like, will I ever meet someone?

Speaker 2 Maybe you're thinking of this right now. Will I ever meet someone who loved me again?

Speaker 2 First of all, they didn't even love you, but we think, will someone ever love me again?

Speaker 2 We ask ourselves the question, maybe you're thinking of this right now, like, will I ever meet someone who will commit to me, who will be loyal to me, who'll actually be with me?

Speaker 2 If you're asking some of those questions, this next clip from Mel Robbins is going to really resonate with you because she talks about how to go through a breakup in a really practical way.

Speaker 2 Should you contact them? Should you try and make them jealous? All those emotions and feelings we go through, if you listen to this next clip, it's going to help you make the right decisions.

Speaker 2 Take a look.

Speaker 4 When somebody leaves that you love,

Speaker 7 you think you're unlovable. You actually think you're never going to find it again.
You hate yourself. That's why most of the advice about this is complete bullshit.

Speaker 7 Go love yourself. How the hell am I going to go love myself when the person I love more than anything just left me?

Speaker 7 I hate myself. I despise myself.
I am terrified of the day that they're going to meet somebody.

Speaker 7 I'm never going to find that again. I'm never going to have sex like that again.
I'm not like you hate yourself.

Speaker 7 And so telling somebody to just go on a revenge diet or or Li'a love yourself, it's horrible. Instead, I want you to face reality.
They left, let them.

Speaker 4 And then let me grieve.

Speaker 7 And follow my therapist Ann Davin's advice. You have to do a 30-day detox.

Speaker 7 And if you are somebody that's been holding on to somebody that left a year ago, I guarantee you, you have not gone 30 days without listening to a voice memo or looking at a photo.

Speaker 7 You are keeping them alive,

Speaker 7 which is keeping you trapped in something that's dead.

Speaker 7 And your inability to let them go and let them leave and then let me accept reality and start moving forward and let me believe

Speaker 7 that the person that I am meant to meet, they are in the future. They're not in my past.
And by the way, even if you kind of hold out secretly hope, it might be the person. from the past.

Speaker 7 It might be, but they're not the version from back there. And neither are you.
And neither are you. And so you have to, again, come back to where the power is.
It's not in getting them back.

Speaker 7 It's not in making them jealous. Because if you focus on making that person jealous or blah, blah, blah, where are you putting your power?

Speaker 4 Then.

Speaker 7 And something you can't control.

Speaker 7 You have to put your power here. And the reason why I love the 30-day rule and the 11-week mark is because it's the truth.
This is going to suck.

Speaker 7 The only way to get over someone and to go through heartbreak is to go through it. There's no avoiding it.

Speaker 2 There's only delaying it. And we delay it

Speaker 7 because we don't want to accept people as they are.

Speaker 7 When somebody breaks up and leaves or cheats on you, they have just revealed who they are.

Speaker 2 For sure.

Speaker 7 And your inability to accept it, instead of explaining it away and living in a fantasy up here, That's what's keeping you from having and creating the love you actually deserve and want in your life.

Speaker 2 I was talking to a friend recently and this, everything you're saying is just so true and it's resonating so strongly to me.

Speaker 2 I was talking to a friend recently and she was saying to me, I wish my friend would just be honest with me.

Speaker 2 I wish this person who's just screwed me over, just let me down, would just be honest with me rather than pretending to be my friend.

Speaker 2 And I said to them, they are being honest with you. Them lying is showing you their truth.
That's how much they value you. Them pretending to be your friend is their truth.

Speaker 2 You don't want the truth. Actually, you want them to lie to you and you want them to be someone else.
You want them to become the honest person.

Speaker 2 But they're showing you that they're not an honest person. That is the truth.

Speaker 7 It's true. And here's the other thing: why are you pretending to be this person's friend? Yeah.
And not bringing it up. Exactly.
Why is it on them to tell you the truth?

Speaker 7 Let them lie to you and then come to the let me part.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 7 If aren't you pretending that you're their friend if you haven't brought this up?

Speaker 7 And you're actually holding that in your head, right?

Speaker 7 There's so many applications of this.

Speaker 4 So many.

Speaker 7 It's just incredible.

Speaker 7 And the thing that I'm really, really excited about is that, you know, the other massive thing that I think this is going to help people with is that one other way that you make people a massive problem is that you see somebody else's success or happiness or the things that they achieve in their life as somehow robbing you of yours.

Speaker 7 And the thing about life is that you're never playing against people. You play with them.

Speaker 7 And somebody else's success, happiness, love, like the things that they achieve, it's in limitless supply.

Speaker 7 And when you wrap your brain around the fact that happiness, love, money, like all of it, limitless supply. So other people can't block your way.
They actually lead the way.

Speaker 7 And so if you let them lead the way and you see their wins not as your losses, but you see it as an example to follow, you now stop making other people a problem and you stop using them as an excuse for why you can't do what you're capable of.

Speaker 7 Other people don't block you. You block your way.

Speaker 7 Allow people to lead the way. And the way that you do that is you say, let them be successful.
Let them get married. Let them have the baby.

Speaker 7 Let them have the nice car because they're showing me what's possible. And the cool thing about really embracing let them in that regard is that other people also show you the formula, right?

Speaker 4 Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 7 They show you exactly how to do something. 100%.
But if you're so busy going, oh, well, Jane launched a podcast and there's too many podcasts. Now I can't launch podcasts.

Speaker 7 Who's blocking you?

Speaker 4 You.

Speaker 7 Correct.

Speaker 7 You're capable of learning to be a better player in the game of life from other people. Yes.
So stop playing against them and let them show you the way.

Speaker 2 I speak to so many people every week who are going through breakups.

Speaker 2 And I'm so glad that you found this episode of the podcast because it's one of those things where you take two steps forward and then you're three steps back. And it often feels like this.

Speaker 2 back and forth feeling of, have I healed? Have I recovered? Oh no, I'm right back there now. And I want you to know that on purpose, we're dedicated to trying to help you through that healing journey.

Speaker 2 As long as you're healing, you're moving in the right direction. Sometimes you're going to feel like you're completely missing them again.

Speaker 2 And sometimes you're going to feel like you're ready to move on. And the goal is to surround yourself with the right insights, the right wisdom, to keep focusing on your own growth.

Speaker 2 Because here's what I've realized. The pain doesn't go away.
It just gets easier to carry. It just gets easier to deal with.

Speaker 2 As you build confidence, as you build strength, you start to realize that what you went through actually helped you find deeper, more meaningful love.

Speaker 2 And from the people who I've known that have gone through breakups and found long-term relationships that they're happy in, they all look back

Speaker 2 and now

Speaker 2 feel grateful for that experience because it helped them quickly decipher who was right for them and who wasn't. Who was around for a season, but not for the rest of their life.

Speaker 2 Thanks so much for listening. If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr.
Gabor Mate on understanding your trauma and how to heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.

Speaker 8 Everything in nature grows only where it's vulnerable. So a tree doesn't grow where it's hard and thick, does it? It grows where it's soft and green and vulnerable.

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Speaker 1 This is an iHeart podcast.