How to Move On When You Still Miss Your Ex (4 Hard Truths That Will FINALLY Set You Free)
What truth about the relationship have you been ignoring?
What makes that truth hard for you to accept?
Today, Jay opens up about one of the hardest things we go through, trying to get over someone we once loved. He reminds us that healing isn’t about pretending we’re okay or trying to move on too quickly. It’s about realizing that what we often miss isn’t the person themselves, but how we felt when we were with them: seen, loved, and alive. Jay gently walks us through why breakups hurt so deeply, how our minds are built for connection, and why finding closure really starts with reconnecting to ourselves.
Jay also shares how to stop replaying the past and start finding your rhythm again. He reminds us that healing isn’t about erasing the love, it’s about learning from it. You don’t need to have it all figured out today, you just need to take one small step back toward yourself. Because the real journey after a breakup isn’t about getting over someone else, it’s about remembering who you were before them, and discovering who you’re becoming next.
In this episode, you'll learn:
How to Stop Romanticizing the Past
How to Let Go When You Still Miss Them
How to Rebuild Your Life After a Breakup
How to Move On Without Losing Yourself
How to Remember You Were Enough All Along
You are not broken for still feeling; you are human for still caring. One day, the memories that hurt will simply remind you of how far you’ve come. Keep showing up for yourself, because the love you’re searching for begins with you.
With Love and Gratitude,
Jay Shetty
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What We Discuss:
00:00 Intro
00:53 The Heartbreak After the Breakup
01:24 What to Do When You Can't Get Over Your Ex
05:07 Why Do Breakups Hurt So Bad?
07:52 The Stories You Replay Are Keeping You Stuck
08:39 Myth #1: Time Doesn’t Heal Everything
10:16 Myth #2: Why Closure Isn’t the Answer
13:12 Myth #3: Moving On Doesn’t Mean You Didn’t Care
15:12 Myth #4: Why Getting Back Together Won’t Fix It
17:26 Step #1: The First Step to Real Healing
19:12 Step #2: It’s Okay Not to Be Okay!
20:05 Step #3: Rebuild the Rituals That Ground You
21:14 Step #4: Ask Better Questions to Help You Grow
22:37 Step #5: Turn Your Pain Into Purpose
24:02 What to Do When You Fall Back
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Transcript
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Speaker 2 What are you doing this Thanksgiving? Besides overindulging and watching football?
Speaker 2 Well, maybe take the opportunity to reconnect with some friends through Facebook, comment on an old friend's post, or post to a Facebook group telling the gang you want to get together.
Speaker 2
I'll even write it for you. Hey, everybody, let's meet at mine for pizza and football.
Facebook offers a great way to connect, and a little connection goes a long way.
Speaker 2 Let's reconnect this holiday season with Facebook.
Speaker 2 Radhi, we're always talking about being intentional with our time and energy, right? What about gifting with intention?
Speaker 3
Apple gift card is perfect. They can use it for meditation apps on the App Store or audio books from Apple Books.
Whatever nourishes their mind best.
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Speaker 2 Healing starts when you focus on the feeling, not the person.
Speaker 2 And you focus on how you can give yourself that feeling without that person.
Speaker 2 How you can create that emotion and that experience for yourself that you deserve without that person. That you can find that connection with yourself and others without that person.
Speaker 2 When you think...
Speaker 2
That that person is more powerful than an experience or an emotion, you will never be able to let go. The number one health and wellness podcast.
Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty.
The one, the only Jay Shetty.
Speaker 2
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose.
It's Jay Shetty, your host. If you haven't subscribed yet, please do.
It will mean the world to me. And make sure you never miss out on an upload.
Speaker 2 If you've recently gone through a breakup, or you've been through a breakup, maybe even a couple of years ago, but it still affects you, this video is for you.
Speaker 2 So many people I know right now have been dumped, broken up with, disconnected, and it started to affect their self-esteem.
Speaker 2 If you've ever questioned your value after a breakup, if you've ever questioned whether you're worthy of love, if you've ever questioned whether you'll ever find love, don't skip this video.
Speaker 2 I want to start off by talking to you about what you actually miss, because I'm sure your mind is coming up with all sorts of things.
Speaker 2 Like you miss the text in the morning, you miss the conversation before you went to bed you miss the dates you went out on and it's really interesting because when you're focusing on everything you miss you actually miss that you have forgotten all the bad times right you miss the moments that they treated you badly and i don't mean you miss them like you want them back you miss them as in you completely forget they existed but here's the real thing you miss you don't miss them You miss who you thought you'd be with them.
Speaker 2 It's one of the hardest truths to face that you can love someone deeply, lose them and still feel stuck long after the story ends.
Speaker 2 You tell yourself, I should be over this by now, but the memories still show up. The song, the scent, the old photo, and suddenly you're right back there again.
Speaker 2 Today, I want to talk about what to do when you just can't get over your ex.
Speaker 2
Not from judgment, but from understanding. Because what you're feeling isn't weakness, it's actually wiring.
Let's get into it.
Speaker 2 I want to start by talking to you about why you can't let go, because I'm sure you've experienced it, whether you're scrolling through their social media, whether you're checking in with a friend of a friend who still knows that person, whether you still walk past.
Speaker 2 their workplace just to see how they are, what's going on, whether you're someone who just can't stop looking at your old pictures with them, your old memories.
Speaker 2 When we fall in love, our brains release dopamine and oxytocin, the same chemicals tied to addiction. That's why a breakup doesn't just hurt emotionally, it hurts physically.
Speaker 2
You're in a withdrawal from a person. But what really keeps you stuck isn't just the chemistry, it's identity.
For months or years, you weren't just you.
Speaker 2 You were us.
Speaker 2
Your plans, routines, even your sense of self were intertwined with theirs. It was never about you, it was about both of you.
It was never just about you, it was about us.
Speaker 2 It was never just about you, it was about we. So when they leave, it doesn't just feel like losing a person.
Speaker 2
It feels like losing your reflection. You start chasing closure.
But what you really want is a confirmation that you mattered.
Speaker 2 that that version of you feels still alive, but without them, you've almost mirrored so many of their chemicals that that part of you that chases that, that wants that still exists, but the relationship doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 2 Maybe you replay every conversation, every choice, searching for the moment it could have gone differently. I know so many people who think back and say, no, it was this moment.
Speaker 2
It was the moment that I started to carve out time for myself. You know what? It was this moment when I told them I didn't like it when they did that.
That was the moment I pushed them away.
Speaker 2
You know, it was the moment where I talked to them about their ex-girlfriend that made me feel insecure. That was the moment they walked away.
You start creating stories. You start creating reasons.
Speaker 2 You start creating meaning that actually doesn't exist, that you have no fact to validate from or verify from.
Speaker 2
That's not healing. That's your mind trying to rewrite a story that it doesn't want to end.
Here's the truth about breakups. We don't get addicted to people.
Speaker 2 We get addicted to how we felt around them, how we felt wanted, seen, and chosen. And now that they're gone, your brain is chasing that feeling, not the person.
Speaker 2 It's fascinating that we think we're chasing the person back, but really we're chasing the feeling back.
Speaker 2 And that's why it's so important to go and find something else that gives you that feeling from yourself, your friends, community, connection, because that feeling is something that should belong to you.
Speaker 2
Being seen is beautiful. Being wanted is beautiful.
Being chosen is beautiful. But if it's dependent on one person and one person alone, that isn't any longer there, then that isn't your person.
Speaker 2 If you want to start letting go after a breakup, ask yourself, What part of me felt most alive in that relationship? And how can I give that back to myself now?
Speaker 2 That's where healing starts. Healing starts when you focus on the feeling, not the person.
Speaker 2 And you focus on how you can give yourself that feeling without that person.
Speaker 2
How you can create that emotion and that experience for yourself that you deserve without that person. That you can find that connection.
with yourself and others without that person.
Speaker 2 When you think
Speaker 2
that that person is more powerful than an experience or an emotion, you will never be able to let go. That emotion is something you experienced.
It's something that came through you and out of you.
Speaker 2
It still exists within you. You just have to find the right spark to rediscover it.
You just have to reconnect with that part of you.
Speaker 2
that felt so alive, that felt so connected, because it's already within you. It's yours.
You felt it. You felt it.
One thing we mistake is we think other people make us feel things.
Speaker 2 No, other people push buttons and we feel what's inside of us. There's an amazing example from Wayne Dyer where he said, if you squeeze an orange, what comes out? Orange juice.
Speaker 2 You don't squeeze an orange and lemon juice comes out. What comes out is what's already within.
Speaker 2 So if someone squeezes you, either in a stressful way or a positive way, what comes out was what was already within you.
Speaker 2 When you acknowledge that people only bring out of you what exists within you, you say, oh, you brought this out of me, you bring the best out of me.
Speaker 2 That's because it's yours.
Speaker 2
Don't forget that whatever you love to experience with someone else came from within you and it's still accessible. Part two, the myths that keep you stuck.
I think it's so interesting.
Speaker 2 When I was talking about the idea of writing stories, we create the story narrative forgetting all the bad things that happened, right?
Speaker 2
Someone breaks up with you and now you're only thinking about the good times. You're only thinking about the positive memories.
You're forgetting the arguments.
Speaker 2 You're forgetting the mistakes because now you're just like, I would do anything to have that person back because that's the story that makes me feel safe. And this is a really important part.
Speaker 2
Your brain. is not working against you.
It's trying to make you feel safe. And because it's trying to make you feel safe, it wants you to feel comfortable.
Speaker 2 And so it reminds you of all the comfortable things so that you're willing to even tolerate all the negative things all over again. So let's talk about the stories that keep us trapped.
Speaker 2 Here's myth number one. Time heals everything.
Speaker 2
Time doesn't heal everything. Healing happens when you stop waiting to feel nothing and start learning to live with what still hurts.
Time doesn't erase the memories.
Speaker 2
It just teaches you how to carry them differently. Time doesn't make the pain vanish.
It just helps you stop letting it control your day. And time doesn't fix the past.
Speaker 2
It helps you stop trying to relive it. Time doesn't bring closure alone.
It gives you space to create your own. Time doesn't make you forget them.
It helps you remember yourself.
Speaker 2 Time doesn't remove the ache. It reminds you that pain and progress can coexist.
Speaker 2 When we keep repeating things like, time heals all wounds and you hear it from other people, it will just take time that's not necessarily true because it's what you do with that time it's how you repeat within that time now there is a reality that the further you get away from something the less hold it has on you but if you're immersed in that relationship every day it still feels like it has a hold on you so what you have to do is think about the hooks in your time scrolling their social media, looking at past pictures, checking in on what they're up to.
Speaker 2 All of of those things are like hooks that keep you held and imprisoned by that relationship. Time can't do anything if the way you spend your time is completely fixated on them.
Speaker 2 Myth number two, I just need closure. We all think that if they gave us a perfect explanation, we'd feel satisfied.
Speaker 2 When the reality is, even if someone gave you the perfect explanation, you'd find another thing with it that you don't agree with.
Speaker 2 Closure is realizing you may never get the apology, but you're done waiting for it. Closure is accepting that some chapters end without explanations and that's still an ending.
Speaker 2
Closure is choosing peace over answers. It's when you stop trying to understand why it happened and start focusing on what it taught you.
Closure is knowing you did what you could.
Speaker 2 and that it's not your job to carry both your pain and their growth. I think closure is one of those misleading pursuits.
Speaker 2 And really what the mind is trying to do is that the mind is focused and wired to want to complete unfinished tasks. The mind doesn't love incompleteness.
Speaker 2
What it doesn't understand is that completeness rarely is filled by someone else. I remember coaching someone who just wanted this person to give them an answer.
That person gave them an answer.
Speaker 2
They sent them a long email. And then the person said, Well, what about this, this, and this? You didn't raise this.
That person replied again through text messages.
Speaker 2 And the person said, Well, what about this, this, this, and this? And that process continues because what you're really saying is, I just don't feel valued. I don't feel seen anymore.
Speaker 2
I just want you back. That's what you're saying.
You're not really asking for an explanation because there is no explanation to satisfy you.
Speaker 2 Because the only person who can satisfy you is yourself in that moment by recognizing that whatever the explanation it may be,
Speaker 2 what's worrying me is not what they think of me. What worries me is what I think of myself.
Speaker 2
What you're worried about is not what other people think of you. You're worried that what they think of you might be true.
It might be what you think about yourself. That's what worries you.
Speaker 2 You're concerned that what someone sees in you actually might exist. But when you start focusing on that, on growing yourself, healing yourself, working through that, that's what gives you closure.
Speaker 2 That's what gives you confidence.
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Speaker 2 Radhi, you know how much we value mindful living and personal growth? But finding the perfect gift that reflects that can be tough.
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proving herself wrong.
Speaker 2 Amazon's got it all ready to ship before I can even queue up the next film. And that's why I love planning ahead with Amazon.
Speaker 2 While other people are stressing in parking lots, I'm scrolling early holiday deals on fashion, fitness, decor, electronics, even toys.
Speaker 2
Honestly, Amazon makes it so easy, I almost look like the organized sibling in the family. Almost.
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Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Myth number three, if I move on, it means I never cared. So many of us think, oh, if I move on, it means that wasn't real.
If they move on, it means that wasn't real. That's not true.
Speaker 2
Something can be real. and you can move on or they can move on.
Something can be real for a period of time. Is it real that trees have leaves? Yes, but in the fall they let them go.
Speaker 2
Does that mean it wasn't real? No, of course not. You would never say that.
It was real for that season. Something can be real for a season and not real for the next.
Speaker 2
A relationship can be good for you for four years and not for the next. A connection can be powerful for you.
for a certain amount of time and not for the next.
Speaker 2 When you force it to be relevant, relatable, right for you,
Speaker 2
you actually are going against the grain of nature. Moving on doesn't mean that love wasn't real.
It means you've learned what it came to teach you.
Speaker 2
If someone moves on, it doesn't mean that their feelings for you weren't real. It just means they had a deadline.
It just means they had a timeline and it means they had an end.
Speaker 2 Now you'd say, well, then how do I ever know anyone has feelings for me that are real?
Speaker 2 Because the person that you have feelings for that are real and the person that has them for you is someone who waters them every day.
Speaker 2 A student once came to the Buddha and asked, what is the difference between I like you and I love you? And the Buddha replied, when you like a flower, you simply pluck it.
Speaker 2 But when you love a flower, you water it every day. Real feelings are feelings that people invest in every day.
Speaker 2
A real love is a love that isn't decided on on a wedding day or an engagement or an anniversary. It's one that shows up every single day.
Myth number four, if they came back, it would finally work.
Speaker 2 How many of you have ever said this? This time, if they came back, I would change, I would mold myself, I won't complain anymore, I won't raise issues. But let's be honest.
Speaker 2
You raised those issues because it wasn't good. There was their behavior or an interaction that didn't sit right with you.
Now, all of a sudden, you're going to just let that go?
Speaker 2 All of a sudden, you're going to say, I'm never, ever going to have an issue with bad behavior ever again. Is that the kind of love you want? Is that the kind of love you want to receive?
Speaker 2 One that you don't get to share
Speaker 2 what you feel?
Speaker 2 Is it love
Speaker 2 if you can't be honest with them? Is it love
Speaker 2 if you can't express your emotions without feeling fearful? Is it love if you can't express how you feel without them feeling uncomfortable?
Speaker 2 How can it be love if you can't share, express your feelings and emotions
Speaker 2
without feeling like they may react? Here's the truth. You don't miss them.
You miss hope. But hope without change is just another heartbreak waiting to happen.
Speaker 2 When you stop feeding these myths, you stop feeding the illusion that keeps you stuck. We keep creating these illusions, illusory versions of life, not realizing that, yep, they'll come back.
Speaker 2
Yes, for a month you won't say anything. And in a month, you will be upset about their behavior again.
In a month, you will be irritated.
Speaker 2 And then when you raise it, they'll say, wait a minute, I thought you were never going to raise this again. And you'll say, yeah, I didn't want to, but it's a big deal to me.
Speaker 2 The reason that you broke up in the first place is that there's something deeply rooted that disconnects you. You didn't break up over nothing.
Speaker 2 Don't invite drama back into your life long term because you think that person will make you feel peaceful short term.
Speaker 2 You'll invite someone who caused you pain back into your life because you don't want to deal with the pain of losing them in the short term. You don't want to do that.
Speaker 2 Part three, how to actually heal.
Speaker 2 Here's where we go from understanding to action.
Speaker 2
The first step is stop feeding the fantasy. You can't heal if you're still romanticizing the highlight reel.
Block the breadcrumbs, social media, old photo, playlists.
Speaker 2
The saying out of sight, out of mind couldn't be more true. You're not being dramatic, you're protecting your recovery.
How do you stop the story?
Speaker 2 You stop the story by looking at both storylines, right?
Speaker 2 If you only look at the storyline you're feeling right now and you ignore the storyline you felt a couple of months ago, you're not looking at the full picture. Look at the full picture.
Speaker 2 Write out every reason
Speaker 2 why you actually saw you weren't right for each other. Not why they're a bad person, but why you weren't right for each other because you had enough of those signs.
Speaker 2 Sometimes the reason you're upset that someone broke up with you is because you wanted to break up with them first.
Speaker 2 You wanted to be the person who ended things, but you were scared of doing that.
Speaker 2 And now you're living on the opposite end where they've broken up with you when you were the one who knew it wasn't going in the right direction.
Speaker 2 But again, it was fear that kept you in the wrong relationship. And now it's fear that will make you go back to the wrong relationship.
Speaker 2 Fear keeps us in the wrong relationships and it makes us pursue the bad relationships all over again.
Speaker 2 You're You're not being dramatic when you disconnect from their social media, when you stop checking in on what they're up to, when you stop making them a part of your life.
Speaker 2
It allows you to truly start processing and not keep creating these stories. Number two, feel without dramatizing.
You don't have to pretend you're fine. Grief is actually healthy.
Speaker 2 What's unhealthy is making it your identity.
Speaker 2
Sit with the sadness, but don't pitch a tent there. Try this journaling prompt.
What did this relationship teach me about my needs, not my worth?
Speaker 2 After a breakup, the biggest mistake we make is we think that what happened is a reflection of our worth, not a reflection of our needs.
Speaker 2 When you reflect something onto your worth, you just feel worse.
Speaker 2 When you recognize something is teaching you about your needs, you're actually able to move forward and recognize what you want in the future. Number three, rebuild your rituals.
Speaker 2
Heartbreak steals structure. Healing gives it back.
Start creating new anchors, morning walks, gym sessions, therapy, dinner with friends.
Speaker 2 What happens is your brain had a rhythm of life with that person.
Speaker 2
The morning text. The evening call, the date night on the weekend.
Your brain had found a new rhythm that had replaced your old rhythm. Remember, you were single before this person.
Speaker 2
You had a rhythm before this person. So what do you do? You've got to create a new rhythm.
And the new rhythm has to tap into the moments where you feel the most triggered.
Speaker 2 If you can identify the three times in your day where you're most affected by this breakup and recognize that those are the moments you want to give yourself the most care, the most connection, the most being with other people, the most ability to not fall into that trap of revisiting the past.
Speaker 2 That's what you want to focus on. Number four, shift the question.
Speaker 2 Instead of asking, why didn't it work?
Speaker 2 Ask, to what version of me was I becoming while trying to make it work?
Speaker 2 If you were becoming a better version of yourself, how can you continue to do that? And if you were becoming a lesser version of yourself,
Speaker 2 how do you use that to remind yourself that you don't want to go back there?
Speaker 2 Asking yourself why it didn't work, there'll be a million answers and there'll be so many from them and your side. But the truth is, it didn't work
Speaker 2 because they didn't want to make it work.
Speaker 2 And when one person doesn't want to make it work, it doesn't work just because you do. A healthy relationship is where both people want to make it work.
Speaker 2 You don't want to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't want to make it work with you because it's never going to work just because one person wants it to work.
Speaker 2
A relationship only works when both people work on it together and want it to work. That is a definition of a healthy long-term relationship.
Both people are committed to making it work.
Speaker 2
There is no such thing as the right person. There's only the person who's willing to show up to try and make things right.
When you both want to do that, the relationship is in working order.
Speaker 2
And number five, let pain become purpose. You're not meant to erase your story.
You're meant to evolve through it. Every heartbreak can either harden you or humanize you.
Speaker 2 The difference is whether you learn or linger. What I find for so many people
Speaker 2 is that When you're in the moment where your heart's been broken, you can't believe it ever being glued back together.
Speaker 2 And what's incredible is that anyone that I've coached through that time, when they finally find love again, which happens every time, they completely forget that ever existed.
Speaker 2
You don't have to be hopeful right now. You don't have to believe right now.
All you have to do is practice putting your heart back together.
Speaker 2
and creating purpose to move forward, meaning to move forward. There's a beautiful practice called kitsugi.
It's the idea that when something breaks, it's rebuilt through this beautiful gold.
Speaker 2
And you may see items of pots, of clay, of plates that are broken. And now you can see the cracks where the cracks are gold.
That's what each and every one of us are when our hearts are broken.
Speaker 2
But knowing that those wounds only make you better for the future. They only make you aware of what you're looking for.
They only make you prepared for the future. Part four.
Speaker 2
Here's what to do when you slip back. It is guaranteed that you will slip back.
Recovering from a breakup is moving three steps forward and two steps back.
Speaker 2 It's feeling like you're healing and then crying like you're back to day one.
Speaker 2
It's experiencing growth and then feeling grief. Healing isn't linear.
You might feel strong for weeks, then suddenly you see their name and everything floods back. That doesn't mean you're broken.
Speaker 2
It means you're human. When that happens, here's what I want you to remember.
Missing someone doesn't mean you're meant for them.
Speaker 2
It just means they occupied a meaningful chapter of your life and your heart hasn't caught up to the ending yet. If you're going through a breakup, do this.
Instead of texting them, text a friend.
Speaker 2 Instead of rereading your old messages, start creating new connections. Instead of asking, do they miss me? Ask, am I proud of who I'm becoming?
Speaker 2
Because getting over someone isn't about forgetting them. It's about remembering you.
There was a you before this relationship. There was a you during this relationship.
Speaker 2 And there is a you after this relationship. It is the most important relationship you will ever commit to.
Speaker 2
Don't ignore it. because you felt that you are only in existence with this other individual.
You existed before, you will always exist without them. I want to leave you with some closing words.
Speaker 2
Sometimes the hardest part isn't letting go of them. It's letting go of the future you built with them in your mind.
But healing starts the moment you stop asking, why did they leave?
Speaker 2 And start asking, what is this pain trying to teach me? So if you're in that place, still missing them, still aching, take a deep breath, breathe in acceptance. Breathe out attachment.
Speaker 2 You're not weak for still feeling.
Speaker 2
You're strong for still showing up. You're not behind in your healing.
You're right on time for your transformation. You don't have to get over them today.
Speaker 2
You just have to focus on getting back to you. Thank you so much for listening.
I hope this episode helps you in your healing journey.
Speaker 2 Please share it with a friend who's going through a really, really difficult time. And I promise you, this will be the launch pad of a beautiful love story for you.
Speaker 2
Remember, I'm forever in your corner. I'm always rooting for you.
And thank you for joining me here on On Purpose.
Speaker 2 If you love this episode, you're going to love my conversation with Matthew Hussey on how to get over your ex and find true love in your relationships.
Speaker 4 People should be compassionate to themselves, but extend that compassion to your future self.
Speaker 4 Because truly extending your compassion to your future self is doing something that gives him him or her a shot at a happy and a peaceful life.
Speaker 2 This episode of On Purpose is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. I believe that travel is one of the greatest gifts that we've ever been given.
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Speaker 5 Hi, it's Eva, and I think it's about time you discovered the world's first luxury hospitality brand at sea, the Ritz-Carlton Yacht Collection.
Speaker 5 Imagine setting sail on an all-inclusive voyage where every moment is entirely yours.
Speaker 5 Explore the Amalfi coasts, the islands of Thailand, or Alaska's glacial fjords, and the lagoons of French Polynesia.
Speaker 5 Or maybe just stay aboard and indulge in a spa day, dining from Michelin-starred chefs and kayaking directly from the exclusive marina platform.
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There are so many possibilities and so much time to relax. Every journey, unlike the rest, the Ritz-Carlton Yacht Collection.
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Speaker 1 You've built a solid foundation in finance. Now you're asking, what's next?
Speaker 1 At Schwab, you'll find a team that celebrates your entrepreneurial mindset and gives you the room to grow across roles, specialties, and corners of the company.
Speaker 1 It's an investment in your success, whether you want to deepen your expertise or try something new. Take control of your future, build strong relationships, and do what's best for your clients.
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Learn more about our open positions at Schwabjobs.com. That's Schwabjobs.com.
Charles Schwab is an equal opportunity employer, including disability and veterans. This is an iHeart podcast.