Jillian Turecki: 3 Biggest Dating Mistakes You’re Making (Stop Chasing Love That’s Not For You)

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Speaker 3 Who you decide to partner with is one of the most important decisions you will ever make. If someone is not into you, they absolutely are not.

Speaker 4 for you.

Speaker 2 World-renowned relationship coach, podcast host, and speaker, Jillian Tareki.

Speaker 3 It's the why me, this is never going to happen. People then get into this learned helplessness.
This state that I am in is permanent. No.

Speaker 2 What are the three biggest mistakes I'm making in dating right now?

Speaker 3 Okay, so number one is

Speaker 2 the number one health and wellness podcast.

Speaker 3 Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty.
The one, the only Jay Shetty.

Speaker 2 Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become a happier, healthier, and more healed.

Speaker 2 Today's guest is Jillian Tareki, a relationship coach, teacher, podcast host, and speaker with over 20 years of experience helping people transform themselves and their love lives.

Speaker 2 As the founder of the Jillian Tareki Coaching, she offers transformative workshops, retreats, and coaching that blends psychology, yoga, and somatic practices.

Speaker 2 Her teachings, influenced by diverse spiritual traditions, connect ancient wisdom with modern relationship dynamics. Jillian's first book, It Begins With You, has nine truths everyone should know.

Speaker 2 The nine hard truths about love that will change your life. And it's going to be out on January 14th.
Make sure you go and grab a copy if you're trying to figure out your love life right now.

Speaker 2 Please welcome to On Purpose, Gillian Tareki. Jillian, it's great to have you here.

Speaker 3 Wonderful to be here. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 Of course, of course. I'm so fascinated by love and relationships.
And my last book was all about love and relationships.

Speaker 2 So whenever I get to sit down with a fellow coach and a fellow author to learn more and understand more, I'm a huge fan of the videos you post on social media.

Speaker 2 And I think you're doing such a great job of speaking about really, really interesting things when it comes to love.

Speaker 2 But I wanted to start off with asking you, because this is, I was trying to get a sense of what our audience is worried about and concerned about and challenged with.

Speaker 2 And one of the big things that keeps coming up is, what are the three biggest mistakes I'm making in dating right now? Like, what am I getting wrong about dating? That seems to be the top question.

Speaker 3 So, there's a few things. One is, it shouldn't just be the apps.
I don't tell people get off the apps. Sometimes I say get on the apps.
But if you just focus on that,

Speaker 3 that's going to burn you out and it's going to exhaust you. And you're meeting a bunch of strangers.
So, that's like another mistake that people make is that they're impatient.

Speaker 3 It's not every day that you meet someone who you want to build a relationship with. Like, it's just not that easy, but you have to get out there.
You have to be proactive.

Speaker 3 Look, there are people who are sitting around on their couch waiting for like that person to fall onto the couch next to them. And it's not going to happen that way.

Speaker 3 So you can either live your life to the fullest and enjoy your life and trust that one day organically, it may or may not happen if you put yourself out there and you widen your circle.

Speaker 3 Or you actually have to be proactive. And that might mean going on a like dating like it's your business, like going on a bunch of dates every single week with as low of an expectation as possible.

Speaker 3 Because one of the biggest mistakes that people make in dating, like I have nothing but compassion and empathy for this, but you're texting with someone, you're kind of excited, you feel like there's a vibe, and then you go out and you're like, oh, I don't feel a spark, or I'm not into it.

Speaker 3 And then there's this, people then get into learned helplessness. And when they go into learned helplessness, they're like, you know, it's the why, me, this is never going to happen.

Speaker 3 It's this state that I am in is permanent. Like I will never find anyone.
No, dating is really an opportunity for you to practice your social skills.

Speaker 3 Social skills are things that most people are not that great at, honestly.

Speaker 3 Even the people who think that they're really great at it, it takes a lot to really talk to someone and not interview them and actually be curious about them.

Speaker 3 You know, a lot of people are nervous. So practice breathing and being comfortable in your body and getting to know someone.

Speaker 3 And who knows, maybe you make a friend and maybe you never want to see that person again, but at least you're practicing.

Speaker 3 So the three biggest mistakes is just focusing on the apps and not actually expanding your circle and doing new things and letting certain things unfold organically. Number two, impatience.

Speaker 3 Number three, just sort of high expectations. But I want to add another one if I can.
Please. People get into these very long, I mean, when I say long, like weeks, texting exchanges with these people.

Speaker 3 And it gives them a false sense of intimacy. Oh, I have this amazing connection.
They never even met the person. And then maybe they never meet.
Don't do that.

Speaker 3 Text a little bit back and forth like a day and make a date to either meet on FaceTime, Zoom, or in person.

Speaker 3 You really should go about it as if your time is too precious to waste texting back and forth with a stranger who.

Speaker 3 may not be available. For a month.
Yeah, for a month or more. And then you're getting all excited.
I I understand like the thrill of it. And it's all, it's exciting, but it's such a waste of time.

Speaker 3 Honestly, you know, meet the person.

Speaker 2 As you were speaking, I was thinking about what's at the root of that for so many people. And one of the things that came to me was.

Speaker 2 this fear of rejection.

Speaker 2 So even the idea of I'm talking to this person for a month is because I don't have to potentially face meeting someone and them never wanting to meet me again or the resistance that we have to make work and dating feel the same i know so many people who will cancel on dates last minute because they're scared of well what if i go and it doesn't work out or and and rejection by the way is two types of rejection one type of rejection is that person doesn't want me and the other type of rejection is that person doesn't meet my expectations or that person i don't want to be with them yes so i'm not just saying rejection in that we're scared of well what if that person doesn't like me we're also scared of the am i going to to reject another person

Speaker 2 and like you said with the high expectations what do we do about both of those types of our fear of rejection because let's take the the more obvious one to start with we all want to be loved we want to be liked we all want the next person to be the person yeah chances are that's not going to happen we'd know that yeah but still we struggle with the fact that i'm going to meet someone and they're going to say well you're not right for me or you know i don't don't really want to see you again like how do you get over that?

Speaker 2 Because we talk about it in entrepreneurship, we talk about it in life, but when you do it with love, it seems so personal.

Speaker 3 It's one thing to be rejected by the person you love. It's another thing to be rejected by a stranger who you don't know.
This is just human nature. We go on dates, even if we're not into the person,

Speaker 3 we want them to be into us. Or, right? Yes.
Or like we find them, let's say we find them attractive. And then we find out, wait, you're not into me.
You don't find me attractive.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but life really, the quality of our lives is very much determined by how well we can confront rejection. Like you're not going to be for everyone.

Speaker 3 And I really believe this with all of my heart and soul. If someone is not into you for whatever reason, like let's say you're in the early dating process, they're not attracted to you.

Speaker 3 They're not feeling a spark, whatever it is, they absolutely are not for you. I can guarantee that.

Speaker 3 So it's important to build that resilience against rejection muscle. First of all, it it makes a person more attractive.
Second of all, it's just part of life.

Speaker 3 And I know that it's like you're putting yourself out there, but I wish there was like a magic pill that I could give people to just get over it.

Speaker 3 But you have to become more resilient when it comes to that. You know, you can't be hiding behind text and not actually meet the person.
It sounds hard, but you have to be stronger than that.

Speaker 3 Honestly, you really, really do. And you have to just trust that like you're not for everyone and not everyone's for you.

Speaker 2 And yes it's awkward and maybe we can just all acknowledge the awkwardness of it all you know but you still have to if you want love and you want a relationship you have to go for it you can't just be passive you're looking for one person to fall in love with you and for you to fall in love with yes and for that you're going to have to meet a lot of people to find that one person but all you need is one person to say yes one person to say i do one person to say i love you

Speaker 2 and if you're only looking for one person just by the nature of odds, you should know that that probably won't be the next person.

Speaker 2 So, switching to that, you said one thing about kind of going in at the lowest baseline expectation, which I agree with, because then you're allowing it to become a friendship, you're allowing it to become a nothingship,

Speaker 2 you're allowing it to become what it is. Yes.
As opposed to us walking in and going, this next person's going to be my wife, my husband, whatever it may be, my partner.

Speaker 2 I think it's so natural for so many of us to want to speed up love. Yeah.
Like speeding up love seems to be our addiction and obsession with I just want to meet the one.

Speaker 2 Now that we're dating, I just want to get married. Now, you know, it's, we're trying to accelerate love almost.
So how do we slow it down and how do we take it back to baseline?

Speaker 3 Number one is there is no the one.

Speaker 3 There really isn't. I mean, we actually choose who the one is.
And this is, this is really, really important. Love, as I'm sure you know, is a choice.
Like it's a feeling for sure.

Speaker 3 But we're so conditioned to believe that love is just a feeling as opposed to a choice.

Speaker 3 And that when, if you do decide to be with someone long term, you're going to have to make that choice many, many times throughout your relationship, which is I choose you, right?

Speaker 3 So people want to rush it. And so what they do and what I've done is that we lie to ourselves.

Speaker 3 And it's also because we've been lied by society that there is, and romanticism, that there is this one person who's going to come into your life and rescue you and make your life better.

Speaker 3 And that once you find that person, like everything becomes easier. And I'm certainly not advocating for people being in difficult relationships.

Speaker 3 But the more challenges you've had in relationships, the less that you've been modeled what it is to actually really love someone, the more you are going to be challenged to overcome and transcend old things things and old patterning to actually love someone and to do love to where where it's a verb and not just a feeling so how do we slow it down and we just want to rush it it's about acknowledging that feeling see a lot of people they meet there's chemistry and i know that this was me i think if there's chemistry then this is it as opposed to well maybe

Speaker 3 in the past there's been chemistry and i haven't had chemistry with the right people so maybe i need to slow slow down a little bit and sort of process my enthusiasm.

Speaker 3 And it's not about, I don't want anyone to, I don't want to rain on anyone's parade. Like all that stuff is really fun in the beginning.
But you want to just say, okay, hold on.

Speaker 3 What am I feeling right now? This feels really good. This is really exciting.
But I need to slow down because I actually need to uncover this person's character. I need to uncover their values.

Speaker 3 I perhaps need to get a little bit clearer on what it is that I need, what it is that I value, and what it is that I really, really want.

Speaker 3 Not just my preference, but what do I need in order to function in a relationship? Do I have some understanding of myself? You know, it's difficult.

Speaker 3 Women, childbearing age, societal pressures, get married. I understand I have nothing but compassion for that.

Speaker 3 The more that I can stress that who you decide to partner with is one of the most important decisions you will ever make in your entire life.

Speaker 3 And we are meant to kind kind of get it wrong. And some of us get it wrong for a longer time than others, right?

Speaker 3 But it is the most important decision. So if you're going to rush that, you're really truly doing yourself a disservice.
And you have to get comfortable with the fact that,

Speaker 3 yes, you're scared. You're scared to be alone.
You're scared to not be loved. You don't want to be in the dating world.
I get all of that. Be mindful of it.

Speaker 3 You know, connect to that within yourself and remind yourself always that who you decide to spend your life with might be one of the most important decisions, if not the most important decision, because there's no one in your life who's going to have a bigger impact on your overall well-being and emotional state than the person who you choose to spend your life with.

Speaker 3 So you've got to take that decision very seriously and not rush it.

Speaker 2 I have often said to friends, there's the pain of being single and there's the pain of being in the wrong relationship. Yes.

Speaker 2 And the pain of being single is a lot better than the pain of being in the wrong relationship.

Speaker 3 Agree 100%.

Speaker 3 Agree 100%.

Speaker 2 It's so hard when you're dating someone and you've got enmeshed. into each other's lives.
There's the toxicity, there's complexity, there's, as you said earlier, there's a disconnect in your values,

Speaker 2 the person's character. You think you just discovered it, but actually they showed it all along and you didn't see the signs.

Speaker 2 And now you're thinking, gosh, I was happier when I was single.

Speaker 2 And you can't see that when you're single because the promise of being in a relationship is so alluring and intoxicating that we feel like I must have that now.

Speaker 3 Yes. And

Speaker 3 many of those people

Speaker 3 might think, yes, it's easier when I'm single, but they're actually afraid to go back to it. And that's why they stay in these relationships because

Speaker 3 we fear the unknown.

Speaker 2 Why is it that we end up being attracted to people that are not into us?

Speaker 2 And then people who are into us, we're not into them.

Speaker 3 Why does that happen? I'm going to give you some theories, and there are theories shared by many.

Speaker 3 But one thing that I say is that if anyone truly understood 100% the answer to that, they would win the Nobel Peace Prize.

Speaker 3 Right? Because everyone has these theories, and they're good theories, and they're rooted in psychology.

Speaker 3 I really want to put out there that no one truly has the answer to that, but there's some really good theories. So,

Speaker 3 one theory, when someone is not paying as much attention to us, that could trigger attraction. And one of the reasons is, well, maybe they are like, maybe there's something really special about them.

Speaker 3 And so we put them on a pedestal. And where we are on the spectrum of our self-esteem.
impacts that greatly.

Speaker 3 So if we are on the lower end of self-esteem, then we are going to meet people often and think that they are better than us.

Speaker 3 If our self-esteem is on the healthy level, then we kind of are like, well, I'm not better than anyone else, and no one's really better than me. We are all one, right?

Speaker 3 And then there, of course, there's the grandiosity, which is they think everyone is sort of below them in some way.

Speaker 3 But the people who I work with, and most of the problems, and I think the people who probably write into you, there's more of a lower self-esteem issue happening where they put someone up on a pedestal and they project unconsciously their ideal partner onto this person.

Speaker 3 Maybe this person looks exactly like a childhood crush or like, you know, the actor who they were always in love with.

Speaker 3 Or maybe there is just something about them and their vibe that they're like, this is the person that I want. And or maybe it's their job.
The things on the surface.

Speaker 3 People will then think, I must get this person. Because if I get this person, then I'm actually getting everything that I've ever wanted in a partner on the surface.

Speaker 3 If I get this person, I'm validated. I'm going to have a good life, right? So it's all an illusion.
It truly is all an illusion.

Speaker 3 Then there's like the deeper childhood wounds of my father was very rejecting. I'm putting this into context just because I'm a woman who dates men.

Speaker 3 So I'm just thinking more, but it could be, you know, obviously whoever you date. But if one of your parents was rejecting of you, and that's all you ever knew.

Speaker 3 And so you never really felt good enough.

Speaker 3 So actually, in dating and in love, your sort of like center of gravity psychologically is I work really hard to earn love as opposed to understanding or being used to, no, like all I have to do is be myself and the right person is going to fall madly in love with me, right?

Speaker 3 You know, be myself with a little dosage of like, also let me check myself, right?

Speaker 3 So people are used to that. They're used to the rejection.
And then again, the lower self-esteem. If they're not into me, challenge accepted.

Speaker 3 So other other people are just like, there's a competitive edge.

Speaker 3 I'm going to be like, I'm going to change this person or I'm going to be the inspiration for their change or I'm going to make them notice me. There's just a conglomerate of influences around that.

Speaker 3 Why are they not attracted to the person who's actually into them? Again, a lot of theories, and I think they're good ones. Fear of intimacy.

Speaker 3 You know, if, and this is all unconscious, if I'm into the person who's into me, then we actually have to be in a relationship.

Speaker 3 And then I actually have to be vulnerable and then I actually have to be emotionally available. And then we're going to build this thing and like, ooh, that's icky and scary.

Speaker 3 What's easier for me is to go for the person who's completely emotionally unavailable, who's actually not that into me and may not even be that nice to me, but they're hot and there's something about them.

Speaker 3 And I really want to have sex with them. And I'm just going to use that as sort of like an in.
There's some deeper healing needs to go on there. Like that might require therapy.

Speaker 3 That might require looking into your family of origin and trying to understand that.

Speaker 3 There could be like for a woman who's dating a man, you know, maybe she has a very misguided understanding of what it is for a man to be masculine, right?

Speaker 3 So a woman typically is looking for lots of different things, but a lot of women who date men are looking for a man where she wants to feel safe. She wants to feel safe and she wants to feel seen.

Speaker 3 She wants to feel understood. Maybe she's looking for some providership and maybe that has nothing to do with money, but just has to do with energy and vibe, right?

Speaker 3 And so then she'll look to the man who may on the outside seem strong. Maybe he's tough, you know, maybe his physique is big and strong.
Maybe he's got a little bit of like that dark edge.

Speaker 3 So she reads it as, oh, he's going to protect me. There's something masculine and sexy about him.
But on the inside, he's broken.

Speaker 3 He has no idea how to love because he doesn't know how to love himself. He's not safe.
He's actually very unsafe, even if not physically, he's going to be unsafe emotionally.

Speaker 3 And so there's a maturity that needs to happen to understand that, like, your type, you have to get under the hood of the car a little bit more and understand, like, if you're looking for those qualities in a person, and I'm just using this as an example, then really what's actually going to be safe is someone with strong character, someone with presence, someone who has a sense of self, who can actually feel safe in his or her own, her own body.

Speaker 3 And when they can feel safe in their body, they can actually provide safety for you in the relationship. And that you also have to understand how to make yourself safe.
So there's a lot going on.

Speaker 3 I hope I'm not saying too much, but

Speaker 3 yeah, but so there's maturity level here. There's misguided understanding of what it is for someone to truly be embodied and safe and valued.
And then there's also childhood wounding and they can

Speaker 3 be all part of it.

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Speaker 2 One of the biggest problems in relationships is that If someone's into us, we see it as their weakness. And if someone's not into us, we see it as their strength.

Speaker 2 And it goes back to where you start this book: is that it all begins with you. Yes.
Because all of that is made up in our minds.

Speaker 2 Because we're saying, oh, well, if you're into me, then that means you must be weak because you're into me. Yes.

Speaker 2 If you're not into me, then that means you must be really special and important because you're not into me. And so again, it comes back to us.
And so

Speaker 2 when you say it begins with you,

Speaker 2 how do we learn to acknowledge our strengths and accept our weaknesses? How do we learn to build our self-esteem at the same time as have self-awareness of our shortcomings? What does that look like?

Speaker 3 So it's difficult because when you're dealing with, because what you just said, like, if you're into me, then you must be weak. But if you're not into me, then you must be strong.

Speaker 3 That's all through the filter of low self-esteem and low self-worth. It's like, what's wrong with you that you are actually into me? It's not just just about accountability.

Speaker 3 It's like, can you see how incredibly powerful you are? That

Speaker 3 you can be the change that you want to see in your life. This isn't about like, oh, you're the problem.
It's really rarely that it's one person who's the problem in a relational dynamic.

Speaker 3 Yes, it does exist for very extreme cases. And I'm never going to say that it's 50-50.
You know, it really could be someone who's 70% of the quote unquote problem and someone who's 30%.

Speaker 3 But if you can see that your relationship or your life is really the product of the choices that you make and that it's not your fault if you didn't learn, like we're all trying to figure out what it really truly means to love someone.

Speaker 3 Philosophers have been. talking about this for centuries, trying to understand what love is or is not.

Speaker 3 And especially if you were raised in a family where like your parents really kind of didn't love each other.

Speaker 3 You know, maybe maybe they said they loved each other, but their actions would speak otherwise. So we're all really trying to do the best that we can do with the tools that we have.

Speaker 3 And really, this book is just about giving tools. So how do you build self-awareness and also have the self-esteem? You're never going to raise your self-esteem by being too precious with yourself.

Speaker 3 You have to be willing. to be brave and to look at the hard things, but also at the same time, acknowledge how strong you are.
Like, let's just start with that.

Speaker 3 Like all the miles that you've walked, all the things that you've had to overcome, all the struggles, all the late nights that maybe you've had of being really anxious, and yet you still manage to go to sleep and get up the next morning and get ready for work or get your kids ready.

Speaker 3 It takes a tremendous amount of resilience just to be a human being.

Speaker 3 So, just acknowledge that. And at the same time, get really curious.
We are very complex, weird creatures, you know, like we're all so nuanced and quirky.

Speaker 3 Don't think that you're so unique in your problems.

Speaker 3 Like you are not,

Speaker 3 these things that you worry about, millions of people are having the same worry at the same time. That's actually not what makes you unique.
Your problems don't make you unique.

Speaker 3 The other beautiful things about you are actually what make you unique.

Speaker 3 Yeah. The healing happens when you can acknowledge the ways in which maybe you've been standing in your own way and contributing to whatever it is that you don't want to have in life.

Speaker 2 What's your take on the mindset that a lot of people can naturally, again, I empathize with it too, can get stuck into, which is like, there's no good men left. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Or this idea that all the good men are either taken or, yeah.

Speaker 3 Or they don't exist anymore. They're all emotionally unavailable.

Speaker 2 What happens when you've got into that place? And let's say it's been a valid experience you've had. Like the last three guys you were talking to ghosted you.
Yeah. Right.

Speaker 2 Maybe there was someone who you actually started dating, you were seeing them, and then you asked them an important question to you or shared something vulnerably, and now that person cut you out.

Speaker 2 So what do we do with the mindset? Because it could be valid or it could be something you came up with. But either way, what do we do with that?

Speaker 3 I've worked with hundreds of couples. I work with people at all stages of their relationship life.
But a lot of singles are kind of like, you know, kind of the loudest because they want love.

Speaker 3 And I understand that. And so I, the first thing they work on is their mindset and their belief system.
And so yes, all the good ones are taken.

Speaker 3 And yeah, I want to validate everyone who've had really hard experiences. So I'm going to tell a story if that's okay.
Yeah. So I was out for dinner recently with some friends, one man and two women.

Speaker 3 And we were in New York City. I really care about this girl.
Like, you know, she helps me out. And I'm just like, I want to get you.
I want to get you partnered. Like, what's going on?

Speaker 3 I wanted to sort of like understand what was going on with her. I said, well, what is it? Like, what do you, what is it that you believe about men?

Speaker 3 She's like, well, I just think all men really just want one thing, sex.

Speaker 3 I was like, wow, interesting.

Speaker 3 I don't really think that's true. And then our guy friend who was there was like, that's really not true.

Speaker 3 But she has this core belief and it's reinforced because she's gone on dates with men and they've sort of not really valued getting to know her and have made advances that were really inappropriate.

Speaker 3 But guess what?

Speaker 3 She gives them a second date.

Speaker 3 And then she gives them a second date. And then it's even more reinforced.

Speaker 3 And I said to her, and she wanted me to be really brutally honest with her. And I said, first of all, that's actually not true.
Sure, it's true for some, but it's actually not true.

Speaker 3 There are actually men out there who will be very attracted to you in a way that they want to know more about you. Like they're drawn to you.
They're magnetized to you.

Speaker 3 Yes, it's attraction in the beginning. It's lust, but

Speaker 3 they want to know you.

Speaker 3 And they want a relationship. There's millions of men, single men who want love and want a relationship, but you're choosing the ones

Speaker 3 who kind of suck

Speaker 3 and who just want that from you. And you are actually rewarding their behavior by giving them another date.
So you're part of the problem.

Speaker 3 These men are getting rewarded because they're getting some smart, intelligent, beautiful woman. They're getting a second date after they are treating you like they could care less about you.

Speaker 3 So you are actually

Speaker 3 training these men to do more of what they already do.

Speaker 3 Instead of being like, yeah, I'm not interested and absolutely never seeing them again and deciding to be a little bit higher with your standard and a little bit stricter with your sort of boundaries about who you decide to date.

Speaker 3 I think that's actually a really good example of how someone can get really fixated on a belief and your beliefs are what create your mindset,

Speaker 3 then your reality becomes a reflection of your belief system. And yet you don't even realize the things that you're doing to reinforce it.
Hence, it begins with you.

Speaker 3 And so, having this conversation and also having like a really good-looking partnered man at the table.

Speaker 3 When I say good-looking, I mean on the inside and the outside, like, you know, great catch saying, absolutely, that's not true.

Speaker 3 And then me pointing out her sort sort of pattern and all that, we were able to kind of chip away at a belief that was actually the belief that's keeping her single. Yes.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 It's a combination of things of challenging yourself. Like, is that really true? Where did I adopt that? How am I reinforcing that?

Speaker 3 Could it be true that I've had some, a couple of bad experiences, but Sometimes that's the way the cookie crumbles. And that doesn't necessarily mean that it's everyone.

Speaker 2 Well, I think until we do that, we also keep repeating who we're attracted to as well.

Speaker 3 Yes. So you have to change your type.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 So often we're attracting and attracted to the same person.

Speaker 2 And therefore, we keep having the same result and keep having the same experience of all men just want one thing, all men are X, Y, Z or whatever, women, all men or anything.

Speaker 2 We start creating a mindset that's very embroiled in one particular type, but that's because we do keep going after the same type.

Speaker 3 So you keep going for maybe maybe the guy who you think is really smart, looks a certain way, has a certain job, or she looks a certain way or whatever.

Speaker 3 And you're so attached to that that you keep getting the same thing as opposed to the mindset shift has to be, yes, listen, chemistry is important.

Speaker 3 You got to be attracted to the person if you want to sleep with them. But you want to also train yourself to be drawn to certain qualities, like someone's character.

Speaker 3 and give people who you are like, oh, you know, there's something kind of interesting about them. I don't know if I I feel an immediate spark.
Screw the immediate spark.

Speaker 3 Let's see if you're actually like who you are and when you're with this person. And I'm not saying endless amount of time.

Speaker 3 You can't force chemistry, but it can sometimes turn on like a light switch after three or four dates.

Speaker 3 If when you get home from the date, you're like, I had a good time, but I'm not quite sure if I feel the spark. They're not really my type, blah, blah, blah, and that whole chatter.

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Speaker 2 It's so interesting because we talk about the spark in chemistry so much and it feels like We've got to talk about it for so many more years now to undo all the work that all the movies and that we grew up on did because I was thinking about this recently and and i talked about it in my book which was this idea of today the word going around is someone's aura or their charisma and this idea and i'm like i promise you if you see someone's aura and you're attracted to it so is everyone else in the room

Speaker 2 and so you're not special and you don't have a special inclination towards that person and chances are that that aura doesn't make them a good partner yes and so you might be attracted when you walk in and you hear someone speak and you're like wow they're so intelligent they're amazing speaker that's not their character.

Speaker 2 You walk in and you see someone and they're dress really well and they've got all this swag and this charisma. That doesn't mean they're a good partner and have good character.

Speaker 2 You see someone who has an amazing job and makes all this money and drives a really great car. That's not their character.
It doesn't make them a good partner.

Speaker 2 And so it's almost like everything we're attracted to about someone. isn't what makes them a good partner and makes them good at a relationship.

Speaker 2 You keep saying the word character and I agree with you.

Speaker 3 Conundrum.

Speaker 2 What is that? Because we're not even seeing that. It seems like we look at how people think and we're attracted to that.
We look at how people look and we're attracted to that.

Speaker 2 We look at what people do and achieve and we're attracted to that. And none of that makes someone a good partner.
No. They're completely different things, right?

Speaker 3 Completely different things. Some of the most intelligent, charming, witty, beautiful people on the planet are also the most unhealthy and the ones who will harm you emotionally.

Speaker 3 I mean, it really is a cruel joke, isn't it?

Speaker 3 I'm never going to suggest that you date someone who you're not attracted to. I do think, though, and I would really be curious to hear your thoughts, Jay.

Speaker 3 Like, I do think that with maturity, and maybe that's age and wisdom, and that looks different for everyone, that you do start to find other things attractive.

Speaker 3 Like, for me personally, someone who's like really present with me and like a good listener, it's not a guarantee.

Speaker 3 If you're really present with me and a good listener, that doesn't mean I'm going to be attracted to you.

Speaker 3 But if you're not present with me and and you're not a good listener and you're not interested, that's definitely going to be a turn off.

Speaker 3 Whereas in the past,

Speaker 3 I would have felt that in my body. I would have felt that red flag and then intuition that would have felt off in my body.
But I would have suppressed this.

Speaker 3 This is what, and I'm saying this about myself because I represent so many people who are, I know, do this too, because I see it all the time.

Speaker 3 Let me just repress that because I want to be seductive. I want to lure them in.
I want the validation. I think they're hot.
You know, maybe there's something there. And I think with maturity,

Speaker 3 it translates as actually, no, like that's actually a really big turnoff. When we start to have a clear sense of self, and I don't believe that anyone is ever fully whole, ever.

Speaker 3 I think that's, I think that's the journey. And I think that's the biggest lie.
It's two whole people coming together. I mean, if that's really the truth, then we're all screwed, honestly.

Speaker 3 However, having no sense of self and no center is problematic too. Life isn't binary.
It's not black or white, but we live in the gray area. But I do think that as we do get a clear

Speaker 3 understanding of ourselves, meaning

Speaker 3 what's important to us,

Speaker 3 what are the things that we struggle with? Can we

Speaker 3 find some sort of self-acceptance even in the midst of our greatest ambivalence towards the things that really we don't quite like like about ourselves?

Speaker 3 Can we start to actually hold ourselves in high regard even though we are keenly aware of our imperfections and the ways in which perhaps we're difficult? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And to me, that's healing is really being able to

Speaker 3 be familiar with the parts of ourselves that are good and maybe not so great and still accept ourselves and see that we have intrinsic value and that we deserve love.

Speaker 3 And I think that the more that we get an understanding of how to meet our needs better, understanding what our needs are, learning how to stand on our own two feet emotionally, for some people, that's financially, whatever it is, then who we are attracted to changes.

Speaker 3 And the things that maybe we used to be attracted to,

Speaker 3 we're not so attracted to. Or like, I mean, I've definitely in the last couple of years have been like, oh my God, like that is the guy I totally would have gone for.
And like, what?

Speaker 3 But I know that that is not right for me so i kind of i just switch it off yeah i don't indulge it it's like i can actually compartmentalize and be like yes totally attracted to him but i know that that would never be the right partner for me so i don't even they're just put in this box over here and i don't pursue that yes that does not mean that i can't be attracted to a really good person It just means that we can be attracted to many different people for many different reasons.

Speaker 3 And the more that we heal and grow, the more we find qualities that are maybe not so, you know, charm-forward,

Speaker 3 very attractive.

Speaker 2 I feel one of the challenges from what I'm hearing from you is that

Speaker 2 a lot of us in our 30s are still chasing our 16-year-old crush.

Speaker 3 And in 40s.

Speaker 2 Yes. And so we're wanting a relationship that we wanted back then.
And because it was never satisfied in our teens or in our 20s, we still spend our 30s and 40s looking for it.

Speaker 2 So when we were in our teens, all we wanted was pleasure, fun and chemistry.

Speaker 2 But now if I actually look at what I want in my 30s or my 40s, it's peace. Yes.
And it's a connection and it's a sense of comfort as opposed to the unease of do we like each other today?

Speaker 2 Do we not like each other? So you asked me earlier or alluded to it. Like, so I'm very attracted to my wife, but that isn't what's kept us together.
Right.

Speaker 2 That would be a very weak reason to stay with someone because you can be attracted to many people again and again and again.

Speaker 2 The reason why you stay with someone is because there's peace, there's no drama, we both forgive quickly, we both move on for

Speaker 2 friendship, there's friendship, we deal with problems in a way that I enjoy. Like, what keeps you together isn't that.

Speaker 2 So, yes, I'm still attracted to my wife, but we've been together for 11 years and married for eight, but that isn't what's kept us together.

Speaker 2 What I find attractive

Speaker 2 has not necessarily changed. I still find find the same things attractive as I did when we first got together.

Speaker 2 But what I need for a long-term, long-lasting relationship is so much more than chemistry and attraction. I have a friend that I was talking to the other day and she said she was out on a date.

Speaker 2 She got back from the date and she usually does this. She messaged me straight away.
And her message just said, Jay, he was perfect. He said all the right things.
We have the same values.

Speaker 2 Great family guy, character. I can't believe I don't want to go out on a second date with him.

Speaker 3 Did you force her to? I hope you did. Yes, I did.

Speaker 3 And I was like, wait a minute, what are you talking about?

Speaker 2 Like, how does that make any sense? Yeah. And it was just like, because I was like, yes, because of course your 16-year-old self

Speaker 3 wanted this shiny butterflies and almost danger, like excitement. Yes.
Correct.

Speaker 2 And it wasn't there. And so it's so interesting to me about how we all have to mature and grow up.
Yes.

Speaker 2 To be like, well, what is my 30, 40, 50 year old self, whatever age you are, mid-20s, whatever, what do I actually want right now? What do I need right now? Yes.

Speaker 2 And let me not still be stuck in a 16-year-old mind because we are more than we think we are. And I've also seen this for people who explored later on in life.

Speaker 2 Even friends who, because of their cultural tradition, came out later on in their life.

Speaker 2 They found that their first few relationships, even though they were 30, 31 years old when they came out, they were still dating like a 16 or 18 year old because it was their first relationship.

Speaker 2 So it wasn't a material AIDS thing. It was a mental and relationship AIDS thing.
So if you're someone who hasn't dated for a long time,

Speaker 2 your age of relationship is actually much younger than your actual age.

Speaker 3 That's very well said. And that's very, very true.
There are people who are really accustomed to very unhealthy relationships, a lot of push-pull dynamics,

Speaker 3 a lot of toxicity. And often their physical intimate...
lives are the glue is the glue that keeps it together. Like that's the hot part of the relationship.

Speaker 3 And that person then might get out of it and say well i may not ever have sex like that again and i tell them no you probably actually won't but that's okay because if you are at least attracted to someone and you feel safe with them you can explore so much more you can go into the depth of your vulnerability with this person and then create a sex life that can be very wonderful with that person.

Speaker 3 And that's what what you want to do.

Speaker 3 For some people, they even say, you know what, I just, I've deprioritized that. You know, they've been through so much crazy in their relationships that they actually have made the decision.

Speaker 3 It's not that it's not important, but they've deprioritized it because they have associated it with so much pain.

Speaker 3 So everyone is on a different journey, but ultimately the 16-year-old self, like, you just have to just acknowledge that person and be like, no, you're not in charge because what you want is actually not good for you absolutely yeah yeah one of your hard truths that i loved is

Speaker 2 truth number five you must speak up and tell the truth yes and i was going to ask you what's the difference between telling the truth and being worried about being too honest yeah too early on because it's almost like we want to share our truth and we want to be honest but we don't want to scare them away we don't want to overstep yeah it's a fine balance and i think it's hard for people like you said earlier we also want them to like us and yeah so what does that look like?

Speaker 3 For me, what I tell people, I think you should be as direct and honest from the very beginning. And I think that that's actually very attractive.

Speaker 3 That is different, however, than sharing your entire childhood pain to a stranger. So that's not the honesty I'm talking about.
Someone has to kind of earn that information.

Speaker 3 And I don't think it's appropriate to share everything like that with a stranger. I think that has to go a little bit more slowly.
There's a progression to getting to know someone.

Speaker 3 It's like you know someone, then you're, you're getting closer and then you're sharing a little, then you're starting to open up and be vulnerable. You don't have to do that on the first date.

Speaker 3 But in terms of honesty of what it is that you really want, what it is that you really need,

Speaker 3 I think

Speaker 3 right from date one,

Speaker 3 this becomes more complicated when you're actually in a relationship. You know, I spent many

Speaker 3 years not really telling the truth. I've worked with many couples where there's a lot of love, but they weren't telling the truth.
Fear of not being enough, fear of abandonment, fear of rejection.

Speaker 3 This is where rejection really is intense when we already love the person. Fear that we might disappoint our partner.
Fear that they will never look at us the same way.

Speaker 3 Fear that they will resent it, all of that. And these are very real, but withholding the truth is what becomes the sickness in the relationship.

Speaker 3 And I always say, you don't just have the hard conversations for you or for your partner. You do it in service of love.
You do it in service of the relationship.

Speaker 3 When two people in a relationship have the mindset, since we've been using that word, have the mindset of, I'm going to protect our relationship. That's the priority.
Sure, you're a priority.

Speaker 3 I'm a priority. But what we are building together, that's our baby.
Like, that's the priority.

Speaker 3 And so if it means having to have really uncomfortable conversations, if it means having to say something instead of going into what's familiar, which is stuffing it down, then becoming resentful and then hating your partner for it.

Speaker 3 It's like whenever we have a higher purpose, whenever we're, we, we feel like there's something that we're working towards, we will do what it takes.

Speaker 3 We'll climb that mountain, we'll transcend that ego, we'll transcend our fears because we're doing it in service of something greater than ourselves.

Speaker 3 And in a relationship, your relationship has to be the thing that's greater than the two of you.

Speaker 3 That's the encouragement that I want to have people to have to tell the truth because it really sucks when you don't. It's very hurtful.

Speaker 2 I love that. And I think the challenge I've seen with that is our ego, going back to something you mentioned right at the beginning, that we want the other person to make us feel important.

Speaker 2 We want them to know that. we don't need them, but we really do.
Like it becomes about, and I don't want to just say games because I think everyone thinks they don't play games.

Speaker 2 So I don't want to use that language, but.

Speaker 3 but we all do, but we all do, yeah.

Speaker 2 Like, but there's just this feeling of like, I love what you just said. You said the most important thing is to protect the relationship, which is beyond both of you.
Yes.

Speaker 2 But most of us can't look beyond ourselves. And we want the other person to look beyond themselves.
But when they don't do it, we're like, well, then why will I do it?

Speaker 2 And then it becomes this, you know, back and forth.

Speaker 2 So if someone has withheld information or broken trust in that way, not been honest because of the fears you mentioned earlier, which I think were very well and clearly laid out.

Speaker 2 How do you repair that? What does that look like?

Speaker 3 Well, it depends on what the withholding or the lies are about. Sometimes it's you're withholding a truth of just how you feel.

Speaker 3 And that's like not as much of a betrayal to the other as it is to oneself,

Speaker 3 which is, I'm not, I'm not speaking up. I'm not telling you how this landed in my body for me and how angry I am at you.
Because no one will lie to you more than you'll lie to yourself.

Speaker 3 And so a big part of telling the truth begins with telling the truth to ourselves, because oftentimes we don't want to look at it. It's hard.
We suppress it. We don't want to express it.

Speaker 3 But how do you repair from that? Well,

Speaker 3 again, it depends. Maybe you need a third party understanding, you know, what exactly what were the boundaries that were crossed to what degree.

Speaker 3 How much can you find compassion for the person when they were withholding the truth?

Speaker 3 How much can you see that it actually wasn't personal and that it was just something that they were doing because they were afraid?

Speaker 3 You repair with a lot of listening, a lot of communication, and possibly with a third party. But yeah, it's not easy.

Speaker 3 And it depends on the degree of, again, if it's actually a betrayal or it's this is hard, but we have to learn to not take so many things so personally

Speaker 3 because oftentimes, and I'm not talking about infidelity and things that are really detrimental to the sanctity of a relationship,

Speaker 3 but oftentimes people are doing that and they just were too afraid. It's like, well, why didn't you tell me how you feel? You have to tell me how you feel.
And yes, you kind of do.

Speaker 3 And you have every right to feel sort of like a mini betrayal from that. Like, how can I, how can I show up for you? How can I be in this relationship if you don't tell me how you feel?

Speaker 3 And that's very valid. But if the other person can say, you're right, I was afraid.
This is what I was afraid of. And then two people are really starting to tell the truth.

Speaker 3 And now we're really getting into the deep stuff and getting vulnerable.

Speaker 2 We also expect the other person now to change their habit the next day. So we're waiting for the one.
therapy session after which our partner will be transformed.

Speaker 2 We're waiting for the one coaching session after which our partner will be the person that they promised to be.

Speaker 2 And it almost feels like we're, we just are looking for this moment where they're going to get it and the penny is going to drop and they're going to be like this new profound individual.

Speaker 2 And that's just not reality. Like people are going to change if they want to over a number of years.
Yes. And the key part of that is if they want to and a number of years.

Speaker 3 And a number of years.

Speaker 2 And we're so focused on, no, they have to change, they have to change, they have to change.

Speaker 3 But it begins with you because there's something that has to change in you as well.

Speaker 3 Because if there's something going on in the dynamic and you love this person and it's a good relationship, otherwise, you are contributing in some way, whether you know it or not, to them not feeling comfortable to telling the truth.

Speaker 3 Like people come, they come to a couple's counseling or couples therapy, they sit down and inevitably

Speaker 3 both people are thinking, fix the other person so that I can be okay in this relationship.

Speaker 3 When really it's when we change ourselves, we actually can influence the relationship and the change in the other. Not always, but a lot of the times we can.

Speaker 3 If you have the belief they just need to change and be fixed and we're going to be okay,

Speaker 3 you are in for a run for your money because that's actually not true. Like maybe they do have to change more than you, but there are things that you need to change in this dynamic as well.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we really convince ourselves that we do.

Speaker 3 That's another lie we tell ourselves.

Speaker 2 Yeah. We really convince ourselves it's a one-way thing.
Yeah. And that if they were to change the entirety of who they were.

Speaker 2 And then people say, oh, well, you keep giving them the benefit of the doubt if you don't do that.

Speaker 2 And I think that's the balance that we're trying to strike is how do you give someone the benefit of the doubt that it's not personal?

Speaker 2 And at the same time, hold yourself and them accountable for change.

Speaker 3 If you want your partner to change, that's we're getting into sticky territory. You have to accept your partner for who they are, but also you can have the expectation that they want to grow.

Speaker 3 And look, I mean, if we're not growing in a relationship, meaning trying new things together and also separately, you know, following our dreams in some way or, you know, even in our own personal lives, just being willing to pick up a book or try a new thing, the relationship's going to get very boring.

Speaker 3 I mean, that's really what we're trying to do in so many ways in a relationship is how to combat in a long-term relationship, how do we combat boredom?

Speaker 3 And really, it starts with, are we becoming more interesting? Are we growing? Are we trying new things?

Speaker 3 You know, are we, not just are we doing new things together, but are we doing things individually?

Speaker 3 But if you fundamentally think that your partner needs to completely change who they are, you're not with the right person.

Speaker 3 But if you can accept them for who they are, but also want them to evolve and change certain things about themselves, look, many people will have to come to a moment where they ask themselves, is this enough?

Speaker 3 You know, like, can I tolerate this?

Speaker 3 And all I would say is, no one is perfect. Everyone's growth is ultimately their own business, their own evolution, their own business.
And people grow in different ways.

Speaker 3 But if you want an apple, then you have to sit under an apple tree, not sit in like a pear tree and then expect the apple to come down.

Speaker 3 So you have to know who your partner is fundamentally and be okay with that. Yes, yes.
Do you agree with that?

Speaker 2 Well said. Yeah, no, absolutely.
I couldn't agree with you more.

Speaker 2 I think that one of the reasons we struggle to accept people the way they are, is because we've never taken an interest in how they became the way they are.

Speaker 2 We don't actually have context of why they became this way.

Speaker 2 That question of what happened to you? How did you end up here? And when you start uncovering all of that, you start realizing it's so not about you and it's all about them.

Speaker 2 And by the way, the same is true for you. And how did you become this way? And how did you expect? all of this to be this way.

Speaker 2 And so I feel like that you've talked about this a few times today, this idea of curiosity, learning about your partner, understanding how they got there.

Speaker 2 And all of a sudden, when you understand that, you go, oh my gosh, I get it now. And now I understand how long it will take to unwire or rewire that as well.
Yes.

Speaker 2 If they want to and if they notice it. Yes.
As opposed to this idea of, well, I snap my fingers and you should get it. You should know how I feel immediately.
Yes. I agree with you completely.

Speaker 2 I don't think there's, at least in my relationship, I learned that

Speaker 2 the smarter way to be early on was respecting my partner's values

Speaker 2 and having her respect mine and not trying to change our values because we couldn't. Like, I don't think I could change deeply my core values.

Speaker 3 Not your core ones, no.

Speaker 2 I can't. And if someone was trying to change them, I'd find that very uncomfortable.
Of course. And if I was trying to change theirs, I'd find that very uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 And so I'm with you on the idea of you've got to accept them the way they are. And if you don't, then that's okay too.
It's okay to move on and leave.

Speaker 3 Yes, it is. Or, you know, but always know that like, you know, there's no one who's actually perfect.
Yes. You know, that does not exist.

Speaker 3 And I think that, I do think that people know that intellectually, Jay, but I don't, I, but I still think that a lot of people expect perfection in others. You know, one mistake that

Speaker 3 many people have made is it's okay that I'm flawed. But unconsciously, I'm looking for this person who's so perfect who's going to actually make up for the deficits that I have in my

Speaker 3 personality and make up for the deficits that are actually inside of me.

Speaker 2 I think we've got so disconnected going back to it begins with you. It's just, we've got so disconnected from knowing ourselves and knowing what's right for us and what's good for us.

Speaker 2 I feel like the amount of people that are just constantly seeking advice from anyone and everyone in their life and not listening to themselves and not listening to themselves.

Speaker 2 And you have one text thread over here with like nine girlfriends. And then you have, you post it on Instagram and say, I'm dealing dealing with this on my stories, just to your private friends.

Speaker 2 And then you reach out to your family and your parents. And it's like you're talking to like 27 non-experts about something in your life.

Speaker 2 And no wonder you're confused because everyone has their own opinion. Someone's saying, Give them another chance.
Someone's saying, Oh, leave them.

Speaker 2 Someone, you know, and you've just got these, you've also got actions to take without understanding. Yes.
And I wanted to ask you: if there is no the one,

Speaker 3 how do you know who to focus on how do you know who to kind of make it work with number one the person who treats you well and that doesn't mean i think that you know when we're in a relationship for long enough we will unconsciously hurt each other's feelings and sometimes we will even the most mindful of us will will behave or say something or do something that's not filled with a lot of mindfulness, you know, we'll act unconsciously.

Speaker 3 But fundamentally, you want the person who treats you well, who respects you, who you feel good around. You feel like you can safely express an opinion.
You feel like you can be yourself with them.

Speaker 3 That's so important. I think that is probably one of the most underrated

Speaker 3 criteria for

Speaker 3 choosing a partner:

Speaker 3 can you really be yourself with them? I'm not talking about be your bad self, your lower self with them, but can you actually be who you are?

Speaker 3 Do you feel comfortable in your skin when you're with this person?

Speaker 3 Or do you have to hide parts of yourself so that they can accept you? So I think that's the most important thing.

Speaker 3 And so someone with whom you share values, someone with whom, can you agree on what a life well lived is?

Speaker 3 Because you can have, there can be a wonderful connection with someone, but to them, they want to live a nomadic lifestyle. And you're like, no, no, no, I want to root and have children.
Like

Speaker 3 it's not going to work. You might have a great love affair, but you're never going to work long term.

Speaker 3 So agreeing on what a life well lived is, there's some compatibility and just in terms of core values, I think that's incredibly important because

Speaker 3 when in the duration of your relationship, things get really hard, life happens, family members die, maybe illness happens, money, whatever it is, it's your values. It's not your sex life.

Speaker 3 It's your values, like as you were saying, that it's not attraction or chemistry. It's your values that are going to really keep you together.
And I think it's, you know, that person who,

Speaker 3 if you had to be stranded on a desert island, like that would be the person you'd want to choose.

Speaker 3 And that's how you know. And all their little eccentricities that annoy you and like maybe they're not as neat in the kitchen as you would like.

Speaker 3 Or maybe they're not exactly the height. Or, you know, maybe they've got some stuff that like you can go down a list and be like, that's not my preference.

Speaker 3 Those are are the things you need to tolerate and accept

Speaker 3 because they have the other things of values. You enjoy being touched by them.
You enjoy kissing them. Like, there's attraction there.

Speaker 3 You agree on what a life well-lived is, and you really feel comfortable being who you are when you're with them.

Speaker 2 We all want to live with more purpose, more connection, and more joy.

Speaker 2 Sometimes that starts with a small piece of wisdom, a perspective shift, a grounding practice or a story that makes you feel less alone. On TikTok, those moments are being shared every single day.

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Speaker 2 It's a place for learning, for mindfulness, for tools that support healthier habits and reflections.

Speaker 2 If you're searching for growth and connection that resonates with your own unique journey, you'll find it on TikTok.

Speaker 2 In your family at Thanksgiving, do you go around and say what you're thankful for? A lot of families do that and it's such a great tradition.

Speaker 2 Sometimes we just need to remind ourselves what's important. Family and friends.
Real human connection. There's no better time to find that connection than Thanksgiving.

Speaker 2 Old friends are coming into town, reach out to them. It couldn't be easier.
A quick Facebook post asking who's around. Somebody's got to get the ball rolling, right? Tag your friends.

Speaker 2 Maybe your high school class has a Facebook alumni group. Even just going onto Facebook and commenting on friends' posts can lead to a connection.
Congratulations on a new baby. A happy birthday.

Speaker 2 Point is, a little connection goes a long way, but you've got to make the connection first. And Thanksgiving really is the perfect opportunity.
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Speaker 2 Does the one that got away actually exist?

Speaker 3 I don't know. I think that's a story that people tell themselves.

Speaker 2 Why do we do that?

Speaker 3 What I've seen is we've had some made some poor choices.

Speaker 3 And so then we look back at that person and we romanticize them and pedestal them and actually see them maybe better than what they were, better for us.

Speaker 3 And so we get into our heads and we romanticize them. So I'm not quite sure.

Speaker 3 What I do know for sure is that if you tell yourself that story, well, then you're just like sealing your fate, that there's just no one else out there for you.

Speaker 3 And to me, that's part of the whole romanticism theory that keeps us very stuck and suffering.

Speaker 2 I agree. Yeah.
It's almost like that nostalgia effect where you look back on everything and it was always so much better. I know.

Speaker 2 And if you actually went back there, you'd be like, this was the worst thing.

Speaker 2 Like, just go and find an old journal of when you were a kid or a diary, whatever it is, and look back at it and be like, oh, life wasn't as great as I pretend to think it was.

Speaker 3 Exactly.

Speaker 2 And nostalgia just makes everything seem so much more romantic and beautifully colored.

Speaker 3 It's quite manipulative, isn't it?

Speaker 2 It really is. It's what you said.
It's a protective mechanism of, oh, things used to be better. And, you know, that's a safe space.
And I feel good.

Speaker 2 But actually, it's not really protecting you because it's, like you said, it's manipulating you into an unhealthy belief.

Speaker 2 You have a beautiful quote in the book where you say, stay in your head and your relationship is dead. And I think that's partly it, that we stay in our head in relationships in a lot lot of ways.

Speaker 2 Some of them can be negative thoughts. Some of them can be doubts.
Some of them can be questions. Some of them can be, you know, ruminating on the past.
Yes.

Speaker 2 How do we get out of our heads and get out of those repetitive thoughts?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I love talking about this because I'm someone, I tend to lean sort of intellectual. And when I am not centered, I lean as a lot of people do and a lot of women these days anxious.

Speaker 3 So I can get like very ruminating and analytical and all that. So I feel very equipped.
And also I, when I work with so many people, I mean

Speaker 3 the stories that they tell themselves about themselves and about their partner that's not rooted in the truth because they're not communicating.

Speaker 3 I mean, it's the stories in our heads that ruin relationships.

Speaker 3 So how do we get out of our heads? Well, we start telling the truth and we start communicating. Like that's like the low-hanging fruit.
Like build enough self-awareness.

Speaker 3 And this takes practice where you can say, oh, I'm in my head right now. I am am getting lost in a story right now because it's a habit.

Speaker 3 And some people really have a bad habit of getting lost in such a story about another person. And they get themselves so worked up.

Speaker 3 And so, what you have to do is keep practicing, ah, that's that storyteller in me right now. That's that storyteller.
Maybe something else is true. Could something else be true? Let me communicate.

Speaker 3 Getting out of our heads is also getting in our bodies.

Speaker 3 So, exercise, movement, breath work, going for a long walk, having a long healing conversation with a friend, doing something where you're social.

Speaker 3 If we're too much in isolation and we're spending too much time with ourselves, we're too much in our heads.

Speaker 3 So it's a really beautiful strategy to get out of our heads when we see a friend or two, or we even go to something that we're invited to and just, because then our attention is outwardly focused.

Speaker 3 Like right now, our attention is outwardly focused. Yes, we have to go a little inward to kind of think, you have to go inward to kind of think of the question, right?

Speaker 3 I have to go a little bit inward to kind of give you an answer.

Speaker 3 But we're very, because we're having this like conversation, it's just you and me and the lights are on us and the cameras are rolling, we're outward focused.

Speaker 3 And when we're alone, everything is so inward focused. So moving our bodies is always the easiest, fastest way to get out of our heads.
It's really, and it's daily movement.

Speaker 3 It's like, oh, I'm in my head, I'm going to go for a walk. Oh, I'm in a head, in my head, maybe I have to take a cold shower.
Get out of this state. Maybe I have to talk to someone.

Speaker 3 But it starts with the awareness of, you know, my mind, all of our minds can become battlefields.

Speaker 3 Our mind can be a beautiful thing, but if we don't stand guard of our mind, we are going to be in serious trouble. And no one is invulnerable to that.

Speaker 2 As we're talking about it, one thing that came to my mind was just how we're really focused on starting things as humans. And we're good at reacting to when things end.

Speaker 2 And we're really complacent and ignorant in the middle. Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 2 We've talked a lot today about dating and then we're talking about when things go wrong and maintenance is not something we find interesting.

Speaker 3 Exactly. So true.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's just not something as humans that we like maintaining a home, like building a home, designing a home, that's cool. Yeah.

Speaker 2 When you, if you leave something and you're finding something new, that's, that's interesting. It's something to pay attention to.
Sure. But maintenance is something that we ignore so much.

Speaker 2 And I was thinking if you could recommend a reflection someone could do with their partner right now, whether they're stuck or what maybe it's like, what if something feels almost right, but not fully right?

Speaker 2 As in, there's nothing wrong.

Speaker 3 Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 What do you do in that situation? Because I think a lot of people find themselves there where it's like they're in that maintenance phase. Yeah, a little situation.

Speaker 2 It's like you're not getting married, you're not, you know, you're not having the big moment, and you're not, you're not kind of ending it, like, there's nothing wrong.

Speaker 3 But you're just kind of like coasting, maybe borderline, a little bit bored or complacent. Yeah.

Speaker 3 So, like, let's say this couple has kids.

Speaker 3 Stop making your kids the only focus of your life. You have to, your children actually want you to focus on each other.
That's what's going to be really good.

Speaker 3 Like you are benefiting your children's mental health and lives when they, when you are connecting with each other. So that's important.
Shake things up a little bit.

Speaker 3 Whether that's individually or together. Go on a date.
Try something new.

Speaker 3 Bring some novelty, whether that's in the bedroom or completely outside of the bedroom. Take some time to really connect with each other.

Speaker 3 Maybe it's sitting down and having a meal and just being like, okay, we're going to put the phones away and we're going to really connect.

Speaker 3 And maybe we're going to talk about something a little bit deeper today. I mean, I went to, I had dinner over at a friend's last night and it was so wonderful.

Speaker 3 Like we just went into really deep stuff. I mean, also sprinkled in with a little fun and silly stuff, but we just went into very deep stuff.

Speaker 3 I was like, wow, this is so refreshing to be around people where you can be vulnerable and open.

Speaker 3 And I think couples kind of, you don't want to be doing that all the time because you need a little levity. So this is an interesting thing.
As a couple, maybe you have to do a temperature check.

Speaker 3 Like, do we need a little bit of levity? Like, do we need a little bit of lightness? Have we been too bogged down with the routines? Are we talking about the relationship too much?

Speaker 3 And we need to have like some fun.

Speaker 3 Then do something new. Do something fun.

Speaker 3 Do something that you would have done in the first three months of your relationship, few years in, and watch the change happen in your relationship and build it into your weekly routine or at least your monthly routine.

Speaker 3 If your relationship is kind of feeling, you're feeling a little disconnected, right? So it's not the lack of levity, but there's the lack of connection. Get vulnerable, maybe

Speaker 3 connect in the bedroom or outside of the bedroom, have a real heart-to-heart, maybe do something new that's also very bonding.

Speaker 3 Touch each other. And I'm not even talking in a sexual way, but are you touching each other? Like, do you put a hand on the leg or on the shoulder? Are you being present with each other?

Speaker 3 Again, this is the part that's mindfulness. And it really, sometimes it's so little that has a huge ripple effect.

Speaker 3 And it's just a matter of, oh, this is what we need. And one of you

Speaker 3 take the leadership role in that in that way. Be like, okay, let's do this.
I really want to do this. It shouldn't be framed as like, oh, you know, we need this otherwise.

Speaker 3 It's just like, I would really love this. Wouldn't this be, wouldn't this be so lovely if?

Speaker 3 And sometimes it's just, let me change something in me. Maybe it's not even a conversation with your partner.
It's how you're showing up.

Speaker 3 Maybe you've grown a little complacent towards the relationship, towards your life, towards anything.

Speaker 3 Maybe you need to shake things up a little bit inside yourself and bring a little bit more of the part of you, because we all have so many different parts to our psyche and our personality.

Speaker 3 Maybe bring a little bit more of what you brought in the beginning of the relationship now. And that

Speaker 3 kind of always does the trick if people are willing.

Speaker 2 Switching from going back to the beginning of the relationship, looking at the end of a relationship,

Speaker 2 if someone's broken up with you, what's the best self-reflection exercise that you'd recommend to someone if someone's just broken up with them?

Speaker 3 Well, if they're just in the shock and the pain of just broken up. After that, yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I would, yeah, I would say after that, because in the beginning, it's more just like, how can I survive and who's going to support me? Right. right?

Speaker 3 But when you're sort of out of that initial shock of

Speaker 3 pain, you're still hurt and you're still sad, but you're ready to self-reflect.

Speaker 3 One of the hardest things to do, yet most important things to do, and maybe you'll never 100% get clear, is how did I contribute to whatever

Speaker 3 did not work?

Speaker 3 And how did they contribute? It's so hard not to go into the blame game and just blame them for everything and blame ourselves for anything.

Speaker 3 But true self-reflection when it comes to the end of a relationship is, can I have some clarity around some of the patterns that I have that have contributed to whatever didn't work?

Speaker 3 And can I get clear about what they did and what their patterns were that really didn't work? And that's a process and it's a journey of self-reflection, but I think that is. absolutely important.

Speaker 3 So start with, what are some of the ways in which maybe I have contributed to what didn't work?

Speaker 3 Is there something in my self-esteem that needs to be worked on?

Speaker 3 Is there something that I learned from childhood that maybe isn't working?

Speaker 3 And then to add to that is, what did I contribute that really worked? What are my strengths in relationship? Because you have to reflect on that too. How was I really, really loving?

Speaker 3 Maybe I was too loving to a fault, but I was still loving.

Speaker 3 You know, and I'd rather be too loving to a fault than not loving at all. You know, so those are some of the questions that we need to ask ourselves.
And these are hard.

Speaker 3 You know, I've gone through tremendous heartbreak and just having to go through that, but I was so hell-bent on, I don't want this to ever happen again. So what do I have to do?

Speaker 3 And look, accountability in a relationship, wherever the relationship is, in the beginning, middle, or end, is the most important thing.

Speaker 3 If you cannot take responsibility for being another human being in this dynamic, then you are essentially a nightmare to be in a relationship with. And I hate to be so blunt, but it's true.

Speaker 3 Accountability is everything. It's not about taking all the blame, but we have to be able to own our stuff.

Speaker 3 And when two people are doing that, I really think that there's tremendous healing that can happen between two people if they're willing to do that.

Speaker 2 Tillian, thank you so much for your insights today.

Speaker 2 It's been really wonderful having this back and forth with you of just kind of thinking about all the different iterations, moments, phases of a relationship.

Speaker 2 And we end every episode of On Purpose with a final five

Speaker 2 or a fast five. Every question has to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.
Okay. So Jillian Toreki, these are your fast five.

Speaker 2 The first question is, what is the best love advice you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 3 No one is perfect. Figure out what you can tolerate and what you can't tolerate.

Speaker 2 I like that.

Speaker 2 Second question is, what is the worst relationship advice you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 3 You don't have to lean on your husband when you're going through a miscarriage. You just lean on your mother and your sister.
That was the worst advice that I got from a therapist.

Speaker 2 Someone said that to you.

Speaker 3 Yeah, a therapist. He said that to me.

Speaker 2 Let's

Speaker 2 take a detour to focus on that a little bit.

Speaker 2 How did that feel?

Speaker 3 Very confusing. I understand when you're in a relationship that your partner should not be your only confidant, that it's really important to have...

Speaker 3 some community or other people around you that you go to. Like you don't have to go to your partner for every single thing.
You ought to have other sources.

Speaker 3 But if you're going through a miscarriage and you can't lean on your partner, to me, that sounds insane. But I think her intention was, don't lean on him for everything.

Speaker 3 And so I took that on as, oh my God, you know, I'm being too dependent or too doing, being too codependent. And it was very confusing.

Speaker 3 And it was only later on when I started to do this work where I recognized that that was the worst piece of advice I've ever received ever from anyone.

Speaker 2 And I've especially in that situation.

Speaker 3 Especially in that situation. And I could not disagree with it more.
That's exactly who you should be leaning on. And it's exactly who you should feel safe leaning on.

Speaker 2 Question number three,

Speaker 2 one of your hard truths is number eight, no one is coming to save you.

Speaker 2 What do you do?

Speaker 3 Save yourself

Speaker 3 and choose someone who's going to have your back while you do that.

Speaker 2 Great answer. And

Speaker 2 question number four,

Speaker 2 truth number nine, you say you must make peace with your parents. Why is that so important?

Speaker 3 What I will say first, because I think this is important.

Speaker 3 I don't, in the book, I do say if you were sexually abused or terribly abused, I would no way tell someone to make peace with their parent.

Speaker 3 What I would encourage them to do is to figure out how to become the hero of their story rather than just the survivor.

Speaker 3 Even if you never speak to their parent again, you have to figure out a way to question the story that you have about them so that you are looking at them and thinking of them through the lens of your adult self and not your child self.

Speaker 3 Because if you don't, that is going to infiltrate your romantic life and cause you a lot of problems. Wish that was one word, but it's a tough one.

Speaker 2 No, no, no, yeah. And fifth and final question: if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Oh.

Speaker 3 I know I'm going to say something and then I'll be back later. I'm like, oh my God, we're going to change that.
One law. Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 Letting go is so much easier than clinging.

Speaker 3 Letting go is so much easier than clinging. It's really hard, but your life will be so much better

Speaker 3 than clinging if you learn to just let things be.

Speaker 2 Jillian Tareki, thank you so much.

Speaker 3 The book is called...

Speaker 2 It begins with you, the nine hard truths about love that will change your life. You can grab your copy right now.

Speaker 2 You heard about some of the hard truths in this conversation, but I hope that you'll dive into the book to learn and understand so much more. It's out on January 14th.

Speaker 2 I'm sure this will be out while you're watching this. The book will be out already or very, very soon.

Speaker 2 Jillian, thank you so much for coming on on purpose. Thank you for sharing so wonderfully.

Speaker 2 And I'm excited for people to connect with your content online and continue to follow along to see how much more they can learn about love. And thank you for reminding us all that it begins with you.

Speaker 3 Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2 So grateful. Thank you.

Speaker 3 Me too.

Speaker 2 If you love this episode, you're going to love my conversation with Matthew Hussey Hussey on how to get over your ex and find true love in your relationships.

Speaker 4 People should be compassionate to themselves, but extend that compassion to your future self.

Speaker 4 Because truly extending your compassion to your future self is doing something that gives him or her a shot at a happy and a peaceful life.

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