Indiana Pacers Take Game 1, Wright Thompson, Mike Florio Talking NFL, Aaron Rodgers Is A Steeler + Fyre Fest Of The Week

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On today's part of my take, we have a twofer for the people.

We have an awesome interview with

Wright Thompson, incredible author, talking about stories about Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, all the books he's written.

Really, really cool guy.

Awesome to talk to him.

And then we have our good friend Mike Florio to talk a little OTAs, talk a little football.

We're also got a lot of news to talk about.

The Indiana Pacers steal game one in Oklahoma City.

Incredible start to the NBA Finals.

We're going to talk about the Stanley Cup final, game one.

We're going to talk about Aaron Rodgers to Pittsburgh.

We have Firefest of the Week.

A great show sending you into the weekend.

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Today is Friday, June 6th, and the Indiana Pacers have done it again.

They stole game one in Oklahoma City.

These Pacers, they just keep doing it, PFT.

It's insane.

They have come back from 15 points down or more five times in these playoffs.

That's the single most in a playoff since 1997.

It's just the Pacers' game plan is to lull you to sleep,

giving you a 10-point lead, and then in the last three minutes, fuck your world up.

And that's what they did to the OKC Thunder again.

You should let the Pacers take a lead.

You should go into the fourth quarter losing by six points against the Indiana Pacers.

And I bet you'd win like 75% of those games.

It's crazy what they've done, these playoffs.

Just like Ryan Rossello said, don't count the Pacers out.

He liked the Pacers.

So credit to Ryan for being the only one aboard that train.

It was crazy.

I think when Halliburton got the ball, I thought it was going to go in at that point.

It's just like, okay, same story.

But up until that point, I was still like, surely they can't do this again they didn't lead until 0.3 seconds left in the entire game if nba playoff if nba games were 45 minutes long the pacers would be a lottery team yeah it was it was it was i mean they we shouldn't be shocked because they they've done this so many times but it still is shocking because

the competition keeps going up a level and it's like no there's this isn't going to happen for a game one oklahoma city like the the thunder were in control of this game for pretty much the entirety, for 45 minutes.

It was not like, yeah, there would be a run here, run there, but it just felt like they were always in that 10-point range, but they never got the kill shot.

And with 9.32 left in the game, they had their largest lead of the game, which was 15 points.

And then the Pacers outscored them 32 to 16 in the last 932.

Incredible fourth quarter from them.

How Burton is an absolute just

ice in the veins, killer.

He does it time and time and time again.

I just, I don't know what to say.

Like, the Pacers are so much fun.

There's been an incredible run.

This, this finals, obviously,

going into it, there's a lot of talk about, you know, is OKC going to kill him?

You know, the ratings, whatever, blah, blah, blah.

And then the Pacers just show up and they're like, hey, you know what?

You want some fun games?

Let's make it an incredible game one and everyone buckle up because you're never safe with the Indiana Pacers.

How many players do you think have more last-second game-winning shots than Tyrese Halliburton in the course of the playoffs?

I believe this is since the year 2000.

Hmm.

Probably like, I mean, is it none?

Excuse me, since 1997.

Final five seconds of fourth quarter in overtime since 1997 in the playoffs.

There's one guy.

How many?

It's LeBron James.

He has eight.

Tyrese Halliburton has five.

It's crazy.

And how many does he have

in this playoffs alone?

Three?

Yeah.

I think three.

Yeah, it's nuts.

And they're just, like, the Thunder SGA was awesome tonight.

Lou Dort was awesome tonight.

Their defense, what was the turnovers in the first half?

Was it 18 turnovers?

19, I think.

19 turnovers.

When you saw the halftime lead, what was it, 10 points?

Yeah, it was, no, it was 12 points.

12 points at halftime.

And it felt like the Thunder could have been up.

Like, the Thunder didn't play that great offensively in the first half.

They were just incredible on defense.

And it felt like the lead was way bigger than 12 points even at that point.

So

I don't know.

I don't know what the Pacers are doing.

I don't know what Rick Carlisle is doing.

I don't know what makes them so different other than the fact that they just...

They always believe that they can win until the very last second.

But this must be the best thing ever to be an Indianapolis Pacers fan.

It must be the best time.

These playoffs have to just feel like crack, just hit after hit after hit of crack.

Yeah.

And it's, I mean, I think it's a testament to their conditioning, their pace.

Like they just, and Richard Jefferson actually made a really good point in the first half where you could see it in the first quarter where the Pacers' pace, which they like to play at, they needed to dial it down a little bit because they were just playing too frenetic.

The Thunder were in every single passing lane.

And once they kind of got in a little bit of a rhythm and in control in that second half, and especially the fourth quarter, where they scored 35 points against the best defense in the league.

It just, it's, you just give Hall Burton a chance at the end, and that's all that matters.

The Pacers led for 0.3 seconds of this game.

Yeah.

0.3 seconds of this game.

It was insane.

They're so fucking fun.

And I don't really know what else to say than they're so much fun to watch.

And like, they always get the thing that I love watching about this Pacers team is they just, it feels like they always have guys stepping up like Obi Toppin was incredible tonight.

He was five for eight from three.

They, you know, they had six guys in double figures.

Like, it just feels like they get something from everyone.

Uh, and like and TJ McConnell had not, you know what I mean?

Like, they have so many guys, and they're so deep that they get something from everyone, and they all pick up each other.

Like, Tyrese Halliburton looked very passive in the first half, and it's not like he was, it's not like he lit the world on fire in terms of like the overall game.

He was very good rebounding the ball, but like it doesn't matter because other guys will step up.

Like Nimhard hit a big three.

They just have guys that step up in big moments and they're so much fun to watch.

Yeah, Nimhard, he didn't play that well.

He shot not great really, but in the fourth quarter, he made, he always, like when it comes time to actually do something important, Nimhart is always there making shots.

Yeah.

It was, it was not.

Can we talk?

So I don't really know.

I mean,

I want to say the Thunder are going to kill him in game two because that just feels like how these things go where it's like, hey, now there's, you know, if you're the Pacers, you went down to Oklahoma City, you stole game one.

The little bit of the pressure's off.

Okay on the other side is like, we really blew this badly.

So it feels like there'll be an adjustment there.

But no matter what, like there was a lot of people who thought this would series series would be very quick.

I think the Pacers are like, it's going to be hard to beat the Pacers in Indianapolis.

So,

you know, the Indiana Pacers are for real.

I don't know.

It's crazy.

I know that it's like crazy to say, even though they're already in the NBA Finals, but they were that big of underdogs.

And this game just, at some point, what they're doing is not fluke.

It's just, this is how they do it.

They just step up in big moments while other teams kind of crumble down the stretch.

And I think it does speak to like SGA's incredible, MVP.

When you need a bucket at the end, it's kind of like he's just going to, he's going to try to do it himself.

When the Pacers need a bucket at the end, anyone could get it for him.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I think we're all confused.

Nobody saw this coming.

Literally nobody.

I'm not even confused.

I'm just like, this is awesome.

It was awesome.

It's great.

I just, every time I watch it, it is the same thing that happens over and over again.

And every time I'm like, how the hell did they do that?

Yeah.

It's crazy.

So, yeah, congrats to the Pacers.

Congrats.

And you did it without Caitlin Clark in the building.

Yeah, which they have two games coming up with Caitlin Clark.

So if they win those, if they hold serve with Caitlin Clark, it's at least going seven.

Yeah.

And we still got to figure out the Valkyrie situation.

Can we talk real quick about

the abomination of ESPN and their broadcast

of the NBA Finals?

You didn't like it.

Saying that Halliburton was shooting tour dates out there?

No, that actually was kind of a funny line.

I actually like that.

No, I'm talking about the fact that we didn't get

like a true NBA Finals game one intro video.

We didn't get to see the player introductions, and there is not a single thing on the court that will tell you that it's the NBA Finals.

And listen, I know people were like, hey, what would they do with the big Larry O'Brien?

The big Larry O'Brien hasn't been around for like 10 plus years.

But I look back, and there's been some years where there hasn't been anything.

Maybe it's because, and this maybe isn't, this isn't fair because it's Oklahoma City and it just looks weird because it's not like, it's not like watching an NBA Finals where it's the Lakers or the Celtics or, you know, a court or the Warriors or the Heat where you've seen a bunch of them.

How do you not have just like a script NBA Finals?

How do you not have anything?

Maybe even on the baseline.

It's the same argument I make with

the throwback jerseys or the alternate jerseys.

When I watched a highlight of this game 10 years from now, I want to know it was the NBA Finals.

And there's nothing on the fucking court except YouTube TV.

It's crazy.

So, I was good job, YouTube TV.

You gave us the fucking fast forward that has Larry O'Brien on it.

Nice touch.

Put it on the court.

I know I'm going to sound like an old man right now, but it really bothered me.

I would like it to feel different.

I would like there to be NBA Finals and script on the baseline at the minimum.

That's the minimum.

Minimum.

Minimum.

And then what ideally you should have is a little logo on the wood where the people, you know, the sign that says pay core arena.

Maybe on the other side of the court from that, put the NBA finals and have the word finals in elegant cursive, and maybe NBA is in block letters, and then the year is and have us and have us give us an intro, give us an intro that makes us feel something.

Like, this is the NBA finals.

You should get us.

People, this is the one game, especially game one.

It's like the one game year where you should be wanting to sit at your TV 15 minutes early to see, you know, the intros,

the players being introduced, the intro graphics, everything.

They didn't do shit.

I don't understand.

And guess what?

If it's the NBA Cup in the middle of December, they do all this shit with the court.

So I don't know what, listen, I like Adam Silver as your current guest.

When he comes on, we can tell him this to his face.

You have to make the NBA Finals feel special.

It has to feel special.

And it has to feel like when I watch it, when I watch back clips 20 years from now, I have to be like, that was the NBA Finals, not, that was just a great game the Pacers and Thunder played, you know, in the middle of February.

I'll be honest, honest, I don't really care as much about the intro videos.

I don't spend a lot of time watching the pregame.

That part's not important to me.

But the part,

I mean, here's where I want to play.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

Here's where I think the intro videos play.

Game one kind of plays.

Yes.

And then in a closeout game, kind of play.

Besides that, like, I don't really give a shit about the intro videos, but it should.

I wouldn't say, I wouldn't care about if it was game three that didn't play it, I wouldn't care.

But game one should have an intro video of how they got there.

At least put the words NBA Finals on the courts that I know that the game's important because sometimes sometimes my brain is dumb and I'm seeing the Thunder and the Pacers playing on TV and I forget in the middle of it, oh, yeah, this is the NBA Finals.

We're dumb.

Put that on there.

Remind us all the time of it.

And the Larry O'Brien trophy would be nice to have, but what about this?

What if the winner of the NBA Finals, what if they get to put the Larry O'Brien trophy on their court for the entire next season?

That'd be fine, but I just need something.

I don't care about next season.

I want the NBA Finals to feel special.

It doesn't feel special.

I just see YouTube TV.

That's all I I see.

It pissed me off.

Do I sound like an old man yelling at a cloud right now?

I feel like a lot of people were with me.

No, I mean, listen, the fact that they didn't have it on the court did irritate me.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I know that it hasn't been like I went and looked back and there's some years that they just don't have anything.

And so it might be partially because it was just like so large YouTube TV.

And it is, again, OKC is not like the court.

It just looks different because it's a different shade of blue than we're used to in the NBA finals.

So I'm not trying to pick on OKC because it's not their fault.

It's ESPN.

I just want it to feel special.

I want to feel special.

I want to feel like I'm watching something special.

You know what?

I love Thundor, recurring guest.

He should have had the Larry O'Brien trophy on his body.

Yeah, that feels like maybe a closeout game.

Like if they're up,

if they got up in the series and they were, and like

they could win, but they also could, like, not a game seven, like a game five or six, where they're like, oh, yeah, they could, it's in the building.

Have Adam Silver present Thunder to the owner.

Yeah.

Hank, you agree, right?

Yeah, I mean, they should definitely have the

logo or something, or even the jerseys don't look the same.

Yeah, the script, the script is fine.

I'd take the script.

It also, I think it was because the game felt like a blowout and the series felt like a blowout, and people were just looking for something to talk about.

And then all of a sudden that changed.

But like, that felt like that was going to be the story of the finals for the first like three quarters.

Was just like, where is the logos?

I agree with that.

And that was, that was definitely my thought in the beginning of the game: was like, oh, this is fucking bullshit because I want it to feel special.

Doesn't it?

It's like this series is going to be quick.

And then I like came full circle and went all the way around where I was like, I just watched an incredible game one.

And now I'm even more mad that they don't have anything special on the court.

To commemorate it.

Yeah.

If I'm a Thunder fan, I protest this.

Like how sovereign citizens, they get in court and they're like, that flag doesn't have the yellow tassels on it.

I don't have to pay my speeding ticket.

That game should not count as an NBA Finals loss.

That was a mid-February loss.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

That was, yeah,

that eliminated us.

No, see, that's the thing.

The fucking NBA Cup has the craziest scores.

Yeah.

Can't even say it was an NBA Cup game.

We would know what an NBA Cup game is.

Memes, are you okay?

I'm okay.

That was a flashback for you.

Flashback, I'm still shocked.

Okay.

I'm just memeing over here.

Okay.

Max, we already talked about Villanova Pope without you and Jay Wright.

No one knows what it's going to do for recruiting.

Yep.

No one.

It's never been done before.

No one knows.

We talked about.

There's a lot of people getting on me saying that a lot of high school basketball players aren't Catholics and it won't mean anything to them, but you won't know.

Literally, nobody knows.

Nobody knows.

Not a single person knows.

Literally, no one knows.

Did we do a bad job by not bringing up?

I mean, Max, we cover your ears, please.

All right, so Jay Wright, like that's, I like to talk about Jay Wright in front of Max.

Do we do a bad job by not mentioning Dan Hurley's name?

Because I've seen that.

I've seen that a lot.

But that would actually be what max wants i know that's yeah we don't want to say that and then everyone just backs me up by saying that jay right never wants to coach again i'm sorry i i was listening we heard actually we heard different reports later on in the show so you'll have to listen that yeah we have uh we have someone who's got an inside knowledge in fact we might just

cut this entire part because we already discussed it yeah

more inside than john fanta you don't trust john fanta uh yeah i'd say

buddy i'd say more inside than john fanta you'll i guess you'll have to tune into us uh talking about it it because, yeah, we got an insider more inside than Jon Fanta.

Okay, disrespect to Jon Fanta.

That's what kind of show you now.

No, no, no, no, no.

No, no, no.

Jon Fanta would agree.

Our insider is more inside than Jon Fanta.

No, he wasn't.

Yeah, he would.

Yes, he would.

All right, let's look.

You know what?

Let's kick it to ourselves.

Let's find out.

Okay, back in studio before we get to everything that's happening.

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We should do it.

Okay.

Everything has happened.

Everything has happened.

We're back in studio.

We already talked about NBA Finals game one.

Everything has happened.

All the news has happened all at once.

We're going to get to Florio and Wright Thompson.

Florio, we talked about this with him.

Aaron Rodgers, when is he, is he, will he, what's going to happen.

And then in the afternoon, after we recorded with him, Aaron Rodgers has agreed to a one-year deal with the Pittsburgh Steelers.

He is back.

The Steelers' long national nightmare of being like, yeah, Mason Rudolph, he might actually be okay, is over because you know that there were Steelers fans, and I love Steelers fans.

I love the city of Pittsburgh.

There were some Yinders out there that have spent a long time thinking about maybe Mason Rudolph is the guy.

No, they talked themselves into it, some of them.

I think any fan base probably would.

But yeah, we've gone into some, there have been some rough offseasons for us where we have to convince ourselves

of certain guys over next year.

And it's shocking how easy it is to do.

So I'm sure that Pittsburgh is now, they get to be happy, excited about Aaron Rodgers, not worrying about like, is he going to sign?

How come he hasn't signed yet?

What was your favorite part of the Mason Rudolph era?

Assault.

No, well, in the most recent.

As the starting quarterback.

OTAs, I'm sure he threw a nice spiral.

I think mine was how he handled the Steelers drafting Will Howard

as a starter.

I thought that was a textbook example in class, being a welcoming teammate.

Aaron Rodgers could learn a lot from that.

That's facts.

Also,

the Steelers fans talking to themselves as a Mason Rudolph.

It's weird because obviously we think Steelers, we think Ben Rothelsberger, how many years he was there, how great he was, two Super Bowls.

The Steelers are kind of like a mini Colts right now on their run because 2022 week one starter was Mitch Trubisky.

2023 week one starter was Kenny Pickett.

2024 week one starter was Justin Fields.

Obviously, Russell Wilson played a lot in that season, too.

And then 2025, it is Aaron Rodgers.

So four years, four different week one starters.

I'm excited that Aaron Rodgers is going to be back in the league just because it's something to talk about.

I'm not excited about November 23rd when he comes to Chicago.

And if he wins that game, he's going to be like, still own you.

Oh, I own Chicago.

I love Chicago.

What?

I love this place.

They don't love me.

He does have like some juicy games because it's week one against the Jets.

So I was going to say, what do you think was going on behind the scenes?

Do you think that the NFL secretly colluded to putting the Jets as the Steelers' week one opponent to try to make Aaron Rodgers make his decision as soon as possible?

I think they just knew he was going to be the start.

I always assumed with Aaron Rodgers that it was,

you know, last year for minicamps, he went to Egypt.

He wanted to see how this draft went so there wasn't going to be any surprises if they like draft Shador Sanders early or something like that, trade up for a quarterback.

And then he also probably just didn't want to go to minicamp or OTAs.

Like, I think minicamp, uh, Steelers minicamp, there's one next week, but OTAs

probably for a guy like Aaron Rodgers suck.

He didn't want to do it last year.

He's not going to do it this year.

He missed a bunch of it this year.

So he was always going to do this.

It's the late Farvian where it's like, you know, the summer comes around.

He's like, yeah, you know what?

I will play.

Yeah.

My favorite part, by the way, in the Fav documentary is right after they confronted him with the picture scandal.

And he was given a press conference and the first thing he said was, you know, my hands are full right now.

Yeah.

After his hands definitely were not full.

He could have a picture.

He could have had a,

he could have actually had a hot dog and that.

Yeah, in his hand.

But yeah, memes, squaring off week one against the New York Jets.

By the way, revenge.

Is this a revenge game?

I don't think this is a revenge game.

People are calling it a revenge game.

I think every game is probably, in one way or another, a revenge game for Aaron Rodgers.

I think it's a double revenge game.

Double revenge.

I'd say it's more of a revenge game for the Jets against Aaron.

Yeah.

Or Jussie.

Yeah, for Jussie, but it'll be a revenge game for Aaron Rodgers because of the Aaron Glenn slight to him in that meeting.

Oh, yeah.

The two-minute meeting.

Yeah, and he doesn't like Woody Johnson.

He needs Woody Johnson.

The build-up to the game will be Aaron Glenn versus Aaron Rodgers.

Yeah.

By the way, Max is out today.

Zach is sitting in his seat.

Zach, just through five minutes, you've done an incredible job with Google because he's almost like voice to text.

He had started Googling Brett Favre picture.

Oh, no, don't take it.

Yeah, and I was like, oh, no, this is not going to go well.

And now he's on the schedule.

So yeah, we have week one against the Jets.

Zach, I got a question for you real quick.

Before we started taping, you said Chrome or Bing or what?

I told you that I get seizures from Google Chrome, and we're still using Google Chrome.

I thought that at first it was the color Chrome that was throwing you seizures because that's really reflective.

Okay, yeah.

I did do some Googling saying that Google Chrome can't cause seizures to you directly, but if we pull a video that has like a lot of lights and everything on Chrome, it may give you a seizure.

Okay, now that's that's a good point because I was just making that up.

He made it up.

Hank actually bought it.

Yeah, Hank bought it.

That was a TT, Zach.

Yeah, oh, yo,

come on.

Hank was like, wait, you get seizures from Google Chrome?

And Piquette was like, yeah, he hasn't gotten them in a while.

And then I knew.

I did initially.

I was like, you get seizures?

And PFT was like, yeah.

And then I was like, oh.

Because I was ready to be like, Zach, what the fuck, man?

You're going to give me seizures using Chrome.

But you took it one step further and you found out that, in fact, it wouldn't unless you played an epilepsy video.

Yeah.

Yes, as long as we we stay away from epileptic content, you should be good.

Well, the whole seizure thing was a lie, so don't worry about that.

Yeah, we're good.

If someone says they get seizures, I think that's fair to be like a little concerned at first.

Yeah, of course.

A little concerned.

All right, so the Steelers schedule, we got some juicy ones.

So they play the entire NFC North.

Yep.

So that is all revenge games or the old rivalry games.

So Steelers Jets week one.

They play the Vikings in week four.

And then the Packers in week six.

And then the Bears, like I said, November 23rd,

it's going to be fun.

I don't like Aaron Rodgers, but I do think he's more interesting than Mason Rudolph.

I think it's an upgrade.

The Steelers are probably going to be in some primetime games.

I think it's an upgrade over last season.

Yeah, it absolutely is an upgrade over last season.

Yeah, look, I'm looking right now.

The Steelers are in a decent amount of primetime or standalone games, and I'd rather have it be Aaron Rodgers than, you know, Mason Rudolph or Will Howard might be fine.

Do you think that this is going to scratch Tomlin's itch for having a a crazy guy in the locker room?

Ooh.

I think it might.

It could.

I think this is what he needed.

It's not DK, though.

Yeah, but TK's not, he's not as, he's just violent.

I think there's a difference between crazy and violent.

Yeah.

Yeah.

DK definitely is on the line of crazy.

We also had Pitts, the state of Pennsylvania, ayahuasca is banned.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's okay.

Yeah.

He can grow his own.

Yeah.

His victory goes.

Yeah.

Yeah, Aaron Rodgers.

Hank, Hank, any thoughts?

Aaron Rodgers back?

I like Aaron Rodgers.

I feel like you like Aaron Rodgers now, too.

Well, I'll be rooting.

I don't hate him as much as I used to.

I think he's an interesting guy.

He makes the NFL more interesting.

The league is more interesting having a guy like that

with a big spotlight.

And I would love to.

I also think he's way over the hill, but I hope he proves me wrong.

I feel like

he's not working that hard in the offseason, and he's old.

I agree with that.

I'm not scared of him like I used to be.

And also, he's in the AFC.

I would love if the Bears beat him for his last

game ever.

I mean, I assume this is his last year, right?

If he's signing a one-year contract,

I would think this is the last day.

We're just going to do it again.

This is the last day, a full offseason.

Going to a different.

We're just going to do the whole thing again.

Ooh, ayahuasca retreats in Pennsylvania.

Good Googling.

There you go.

I don't know if they actually do it.

They probably just in,

put it up there, and they're like, oh, yeah, you can come here.

I think Aaron's probably moved on from ayahuasca.

You should do it a couple times.

You're like, good, right.

I think he wanted to blow it up.

And

he took his ayahuasca trip.

He's like, the world needs to know about this.

Then he told the world about it.

But now, so many people are doing it that Aaron's like, this isn't cool anymore.

Yeah.

So he's got a Tussie.

I don't think he's not a Tussie guy.

I know a Tucson guy when I see him.

He's a one guy.

He's a two guy.

But the funny thing, maybe Ketamine.

It could be ketamine.

So the funny thing about Aaron Rodgers and the timing of his you know, big, oh, I'm back, I'm back.

This is going to be great.

Everyone's going to talk about Aaron Rodgers is

he had maybe, what, 20 minutes?

Was it 20 minutes before

John Rossine tweeted that Iona and Fordham have a home and home scheduled for the next two years?

Completely took the news cycle away from him.

It's over.

Like Rodgers,

sorry, dude.

Home and home series, November 14th, a new Rochelle.

I just want to say, we don't get political on this show, but as an empath, today is a tough one for me.

Check in on your friends.

Yep.

Alex Jones is having a real hard day.

I've been watching his live streams.

I just want to say, you know,

no matter how strong somebody appears on the outside, you never know what's happening between those two ears.

Why is he having a hard day?

He's just having a rough day.

Well, Elon and Trump have broken up, and it is ugly.

It's as ugly as we all expected.

Yeah, I was talking to Mad Dog about how to relate this to a high school girl breakup, like when two friends break up.

Is there any chance that they get back together?

I think that this would be the equivalent of like your, your buddy gets, your buddy cheats on your friend with another girl who's also your friend, and he gets that girl pregnant.

Yeah.

There's no coming back from that.

I was going to say, once you hit the pedophile button, it's, it's hard to be like, hey, you know what, man, I didn't really mean all that shit I said.

Yeah.

I don't think you come back from that.

That's not saying like, I think you don't listen to me.

I don't think you care enough about me.

The funniest part about all this is that Elon was like, you know what?

I'm I'm not gonna say anything because he's being fiscally responsible yeah then the second fiscal irresponsibility crept in he was like I gotta I have to I have to speak my mind it's fireworks yeah and uh yeah so that it was very funny that that Aaron Rodgers had this big announcement and then boom

like Trump and Elon are just going to be fighting probably non-stop because those are two guys that are not going to back down from each other no and I think this is probably a big day for Aaron Rodgers too but he's a guy that likes to read his own headlines right but when this came out, he has to pencil in the next nine hours on YouTube.

Yeah.

He's like, I got to do my own research for a while.

Yeah.

All right.

Other things that are going on in the sports world.

We had Stanley Cup final, game one.

Awesome game.

Awesome, awesome game.

Oilers come back down 3-1 in the second, win in overtime.

David Dreisidel.

I saw a stat.

It's pretty crazy.

The Panthers entered 31-0

over the past three playoffs since coach Paul Maurice took over when leading at the first or second intermission.

They were leading at both, and the Oilers, this felt like, I know that it's obviously one game, and it's a long series, as we learned last year when it went 3-0 and then all the way to game seven, but this did feel like a little demons, you know, exercising a little bit of demons for the Oilers, where they're down early.

Stuart Skinner looks shaky, although that goal was,

they reviewed that, was it first goal or second goal?

Second goal that was questionable for interference, which I was watching it, and I was like, I have no idea what they're going to call on this.

In the playoffs, and especially in the Stanley Cup finals, you know what, by the letter of the law, interference is, but you don't know what they're actually going to call during the course of the game.

Right.

So, and that happens, and you're like, oh, man, is this going to be another thing where like the Panthers are just so much better?

And then the Oilers fought back, down 3-1, get to overtime, win in overtime with, you know, 30 seconds left in the first overtime.

That there's just something about the Stanley Cup final in Canada that's just like the O Canada, the crowd just absolutely electric.

They scored a minute into the game.

It was awesome.

Multiple people dressed up as the Stanley Cup in the crowd.

Yep.

Love to see that.

And I thought Wayne Gretzky made a pretty good point after the game that Edmonton really couldn't lose that one.

No.

It was actually a can't lose for Edmonton in game one based on how last year went.

And so now I almost feel like it swings.

The pressure is off Edmonton so much right now.

Yep.

I feel like the Panthers might go out there and win game two.

So our guy Yans pays to listen to Pardon My Take, told us the over was a good play in game one.

He has texted me and said that the under is his play for game two because he thinks that Bob is going to lock back in.

It also, anytime we get into a big-time

playoff hockey game overtime, I don't know if you guys ever seen this tweet that always goes reviral.

It just makes me laugh because obviously it's not real.

The John Boyce tweet?

No, it's not the John Boyce tweet.

It's the one that says that people don't realize that there's no rules for the eighth overtime in playoff hockey and that they are see the rules for the eighth overtime are sealed in an envelope in Toronto and haven't been opened since 1917.

And people actually think that's real.

It just makes me laugh every time.

Like, imagine if we got to an eighth overtime, you're like, we got to go find out what the rules are.

And it's just you open the envelope.

It's like, keep playing, boys.

It's like, no more skates.

Yeah.

You're just wearing shoes.

It happens all the time when there's a big-time overtime game.

I laugh every time.

because it is a cool theory to be like, what if there's a rule that no one's seen for over a hundred years and we just haven't gotten to that point?

We saw it for the first time.

Florio, who we're going to talk to, had a little bit of that today with the NFL.

He was like, actually, a team can score one point in a game.

Here's how it happens.

It could be a 24-1 game.

Hank, you don't know that?

No.

You don't know about the one-point conversion?

Is it intercepting a two-point conversion and running it back?

So it would be like

if you're trying for a two-point conversion and then it's fumbled and then returned,

then it could be a 1-0 game.

But, no, it'd be 1-0.

1-6, right?

1-6.

1-6, yeah.

Scoregami.

Scoregami.

Scorigami.

Okay.

So, yeah, hockey.

Awesome.

We're going to have Whitney on Sunday night after,

which I'm happy that the Oilers won a game because Whitney was not going to show up on Sunday night if they went down 0-2.

No.

But it was great watching.

I love overtime in the playoffs when it's not my team playing.

And in the Sale Cup finals, it was incredible.

I was hoping for two.

I was hoping for three overtimes.

I don't know if you guys saw, but I said I would have stayed up for at least seven overtimes.

Seven?

Well, you would have had to stay up for the eighth.

Well, yeah, because I was waiting, but yeah, that's true.

So I guess it was eight.

It was eight.

But

I wasn't trying to brag or anything, but I was ready to do it.

If it got to it, I was ready to go.

I'm unlimited overtimes.

As many as it takes.

I'm going to wait and see.

You know,

you got to see how it goes because

if it's like four in the morning, I might have to just close my eyes for a second.

At some point, if it went to like 10 overtimes, a team would quit, right?

Well,

unless the rules say that you can't quit.

That's only the eighth overtime.

The ninth throw overtime rules are one team has to quit.

The ninth overtime rules are written on the bottom of the Stanley Cup.

Yeah, one team has to quit, but if both teams quit, then they both lose.

But if one team quits, then it's only one team loses.

Right.

Mutual quitting.

And if neither team quits, then it's both teams lose two games each.

The 10th overtime is hidden behind Mount Rushmore.

Yep.

Right next to the Declaration of Independence.

What pages are they looking for in the next National Treasure?

I don't know.

The Lost Pages?

I can't wait for that movie to come out.

Yeah.

I mean,

just

they got the system, and they run it.

Yep.

They run the same play, and it works every time.

Bruckheimer's going to do it again.

Bruckheimer and Michael Bay.

Yep.

They've never worked together.

Nope, it's going to be great.

Most ambitious crossover of all time.

Okay.

Anthony Richardson is hurt.

Another shoulder injury to the quarterback ranks.

So C.J.

Stroud, Anthony Richardson.

I feel like this is...

I feel like it's going to be Daniel Jones.

Yeah, I do too.

I think just spending three months with Kevin O'Connell

is enough.

Yeah.

Such a legendary room he was in.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But maybe

Spin zone, if you're a Colts fan, maybe he'll stop overthrowing receivers if his shoulder's a little bit hurt.

True.

True.

He takes a little off.

Yeah.

Could be good for the deep ball.

I just feel like the Anthony Richardson experience might be over.

Third-year bump?

Third-year bump.

I don't know.

I don't know.

Are there still

people who believe in Anthony Richardson?

Do you think?

Because I...

You do, Hank?

I'm in the camp.

Always.

I'm in the camp of, I kind of like to watch him play because he's fun.

Hank is in the camp of...

Don't disagree on that.

Hank is in the camp of, I saw him play one time in college, and he was electric.

Which is also fair.

And I staked my reputation on him.

I can't after seeing that I'll never not believe right despite the fact that every other piece of evidence suggests otherwise.

Right.

Yeah.

I think it's fair.

I just wonder, are there Colts fit?

Because I remember what last year started, there were still a lot of Anthony Richardson fans who were like, you don't understand

box score watching, all that stuff.

It's like, I'm watching with my eyes.

And then it's slowly, as the year went on, they're like, yeah, maybe, maybe not.

Well, because you started in hot autumn after like one week or two weeks.

And that's after the Colts fans had a a full summer of convincing that like the mason rudolph thing yeah they just spent four months being like anthony richardson is the guy he's going to step up this year i think the problem is draft picks up even more the problem is you if you watch both college and nfl you have like i didn't think he was great he had a couple great moments in college but he wasn't great in college it's kind of like joe milton where people are like joe milton might be it and i'm like

I don't know, man.

Watched a lot of them.

Don't know.

I just want to enjoy Joe Milton.

Yeah.

Just let me enjoy Joe.

yeah uh so we'll see we'll see what happens there and then the other story i had was uh the white socks are finally getting sold in like seven years to ishbia right justin ishbia oh the brother brother how do we feel about him well is he mad ishbia is having some problems with the son i don't know if you saw it but he the sons are not being run very well uh they have not done well on the court.

They're not being raised?

Yeah, they're not being raised correctly.

And Matt Ishbia came out a couple days ago and he actually said, uh you know i did the thing where you buy a team and then you put a lot of smart people in place and you listen to them and they screwed up so i'm gonna take control yeah no this is the life cycle of a bad owner usually it's the other way around no but what happened i think at first matt ishbia was like awesome i own an nba team i'm going to get all the best players on my team and then he's like i've learned that i'm i need to rely on my basketball guys so i'm putting them in charge he didn't get immediate results from that so now he's like i need to just just trust myself.

Yeah.

It's got me this far in life.

I need to go back.

So he's just doing rapid flip-flops.

Yeah, he's flip-flopping.

So Justin, his brother, has a deal with Jerry Reinsdorf where basically the team is Justin Ishbia's in 2027, I believe.

If Jerry wants to sell, and then in 2033, it's just officially...

Jerry Reinsdorf basically just did like a clock on his own life.

He's like, I think I'm going to live for about six or seven more years.

I don't really want to give it up, but I also need to have something in place.

So, yeah, it's going to be yours.

What are those things you can get tested that tells you your lifespan?

You know what I'm saying?

The one that Dana White got, all those rich guys get.

They test some level that you have in your body.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

And then they're like, Yeah, it looks like you have the body of a 40-year-old right now.

You've got the body of a 60-year-old.

You have X amount of years.

That's what Reinsdorf probably got.

And he's like, Okay, I need to get a term sheet in place.

I mean, he is like 90.

Yeah, so he's very old.

But I'm happy for White Sox fans because as much as it's like...

So the actual terms are the agreement provides that from 2029 to 2033, Reinsorf will have the option to sell the controlling interest to Ishbia.

After the 2034 season, Ishbia will have the option to acquire the controlling interest in the event of any such future transaction.

All limited partners of the Sox would have the opportunity to sell to Ishbia at that time.

So it's basically set that Jerry Reinsorf is not going to pass the team down to his son and keep it in his family.

So I'm happy for White Sox fans because it's at least a light at the end of the tunnel.

These are years and years away, but still, it's better than being like, who knows what's going to happen.

Maybe at the last second, he's like, you know, Michael Reinsdorf, you run both teams.

I was going to say, tough break for his son.

Well, he's getting the Bulls.

Oh, that's okay.

Yeah.

Nice consolation.

But also, do you think the timing of this has anything to do with the Chicago MLS team getting the site for the stadium that the White Sox wanted?

Yeah, they got bodied.

And then the very next day, Reinsdorf being like, I'm going to sell the team.

Yeah.

Because where are the White Sox even going to be playing at that point?

It's probably still in the same scene, but they got a little bit bodied by the MLS, the Fire,

who are privately funded.

Privately funded.

A billionaire paid for his own fucking stadium.

Well, it's a MLS owner.

A hundred millionaire paid for his own fucking stadium.

Yeah, he's got some change.

Yeah.

He's got to.

Memes, you sent something to the group chat I wanted to dive into just a little bit.

The Colorado Rockies to the All-Star Game movement.

Can you explain what this is about?

I tweeted about it.

Yeah,

we're getting the Rockies in the All-Star Game.

I love that.

So, yeah,

the movement behind this is it would be funny

if people, because it's a fan vote for the All-Star Game, right?

Yes.

But doesn't every team have to have a player?

No, that was an old rule.

That was an old rule?

Yeah.

Okay, so the premise behind this movement is it would be funny if the All-Star roster was just comprised of Colorado Rockies in the National League, despite the fact that they're the worst team in baseball history up to this point.

Yes.

But I'm in.

Somebody said it would be like the GameStop movement, and I've been chasing that high for

stonks.

I love that.

By the way, they are still the worst team in MLB, but they did win three in a row.

Yeah.

They beat the Marlins.

Beat Scotty Schuffler.

And if you wanted to do like if we did a power rankings, I think even though the A's are better on record, I think their power ranking would be ahead of the A's after this week because the A's, the A's are about to win a game, but I think the A's were 1 and 21 in their last 22 games.

Now 1 in 2021, or sorry, 2 and 21 in their last 23 games.

There's so many bad teams in baseball.

It's crazy.

Yeah.

Dude, Paul Skeens, poor Paul Skeens.

I feel so bad for him.

He's given up one.

I don't feel bad for Paul Skeens.

No.

One runner.

PFT, one runner less in each of his last five starts, and the Pirates are two and three in those starts.

I understand why you wouldn't feel bad for Paul Skeens in other parts of his life, but being that good of a pitcher and just having your team suck around you would be maddening.

So

I think it's better now than it would have been if he was pitching at this level, let's say 30 years ago

or 35 years ago when people just looked at wins, losses, and been like, oh, that guy's having a tough year.

That's true.

But now I feel like sports fans are smarter for the most part.

For sure.

But it's still got to suck.

It does suck for him to feel like I'm pitching as well as almost any pitcher has ever pitched.

Like, it's hard to lose those games.

Yeah.

It's actually kind of impressive that the Pirates are like, oh, yeah, Paul Skeens is going to do this for us, and then we're still going to lose this game.

He's probably going to get to hang out with Aaron Rodgers, too.

True.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, I mean, there's definitely, I don't,

feeling bad for Paul Skeens is really just on the baseball field.

Yeah.

I feel bad for him.

Off the field, doing okay.

Off the field, he's living his life.

Yeah.

The

they played the Astros, eight innings pitched, one earned run.

They lost 3-0.

He did against the Diamondbacks,

6-2-3.

Oh, no, they won that game.

Against the Phillies four starts ago, eight innings pitched, one earned run.

They lost 1-0.

Yeah, it's tough.

That's so brutal.

That's so brutal.

Gets the Mets, six innings pitched, one earned run, lost 4-3.

Just like, come on.

I feel bad for Pirates fans more so than that.

Yeah, that ownership is...

They're next up.

Because what do you do?

For us to yell at them.

In baseball, what do you you even do if you have a superstar player like that a generational talent and you know that you're not going to be able to win around him because your owners won't pay for good players they're just going to hope to get a lot in a trade and then those guys become like five Paul Skeens all at the same time and then you trade those guys away yeah and then you get well you need all the Paul Skeens at the exact same time and then you can make a run then you can make a run yeah yeah that's essentially small market baseball it's shitty very shitty uh okay anything else before we get we have two great interviews right Wright Thompson was awesome.

Great stories.

One of the best authors out there.

And then Florio just cracks me up because he's just all football all the time.

We had a very fun time with our guy, Mike.

He's gone full Florio.

You're not getting texts during that interview, by the way.

Yeah, yeah.

Don't worry.

Yeah.

Don't check your phone if you're driving.

It's not you who's getting the text.

Yeah, but Florio, he's cooking right now.

This is the time in the offseason where Florio, the mind starts to wander.

It was a treat to talk to him.

Oh, I have one last thing.

Max is not here.

Zach is sitting in his seat.

Zach, would you like to give a statement about the Pope receiving a Villanova hat?

I think the Pope receiving a Villanova hat could mean

that

that was a gracious gift from the Pope from Villanova to the Pope.

Maybe possibly some guys that may have coached at Villanova before.

No, the Pope is wearing Villanova's hat, could be coaching somewhere else soon.

Oh, yeah, that's a good point.

Yeah.

Even Even think about it in New York.

Maybe in New York.

I believe there's a vacancy.

A couple of guys that.

A lot of Italian Catholics in New York.

There's actually been a lot of reports saying it might happen.

Yeah.

Has there?

Yeah.

You there have.

Yeah.

And we don't have anyone to shoot him down on this show.

He's interested.

Hank, does he want to coach, though?

Yeah.

They said he misses coaching and he wants to be, he loves New York.

Wow.

Wow.

That's huge.

Thanks for the update, Hank.

Yeah, guys that have worked with him.

Yeah.

Zach, I like how you rephrase every question like it's like a writing prompt in eighth grade.

Zach, GPT.

Is this good for recruiting?

For Villanova?

I think it depends on if there's a couple of Catholic guys that are a bucket, you know?

Yeah, true.

True.

You need to get the Venn diagram, Catholic guy, bucket.

Boom.

Catholic church hitting up high schoolers again.

You're bad.

All right.

Let's get to our interviews.

We've got Wright Thompson and Mike Fleur, and then we'll finish with Firefest.

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And now here is Wright Thompson.

Okay, we now welcome on a very special guest, recurring guest.

He's a very, very, very special guest.

He was last on with Mickey Hart.

It is writer, a very accomplished writer, senior writer for ESPN, contributing writer for The Atlantic.

He has some incredible books that you should go buy right now, especially for Father's Day.

The Barn, Pappy Land, The Cost of These Dreams.

It is Wright Thompson.

Wright, thank you for joining us.

My first question is, how do you become a senior writer?

And when that happened, was it like the biggest day of your life?

Like, is there a ceremony being like you're going from junior to senior writer?

Well, I mean, it's funny because,

yeah, there's a huge ceremony.

You get the big pope hat.

And,

you know, by the way, this is a total aside, but I just found this out.

Do you know when they get down to like two or three possible popes, they go to this store in Rome, I think it's called Gammarelli, and they get fitted, which means that there are two people who look at themselves in the mirror, dressed like the Pope, who don't get to be the Pope.

And then you have to live the rest of your life with that image in your head of I could have been Pope.

Yes.

Yeah.

Like, think about that.

Think about being in AAA.

Three of you go up, put on pinstripes, and then two of you are like, nah, you're going to go sell insurance now.

Wow.

I would imagine Darren Revelle is going to get his hands on some of those

off-pope costumes or,

you know, not a costume, but.

Hemingway wrote a story about that, right?

Pope uniform never worn.

That's

it.

For sale baby shoes never worn.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right.

So, yeah, so how do you become a senior writer?

Well, they just sort of name it.

I mean, it's pretty funny.

You know, my oldest friend in the world is Seth Wickersham.

And I worked at a bunch of newspapers.

He started at ESPN magazine like as a fact checker, and we both ended up being named senior writers randomly on the same day.

So that was fun.

I don't know what that means.

I think that means you're old and overpaid.

And sort of like, you know, executive producer is a Latin phrase for taking credit.

You know, I think it's some of that.

Yeah.

It's a good place to be, though.

Rick Riley anoints you with a pen, a tap on each shoulder.

You may not rise.

And then some terrible fucking cliche.

Yeah, about teeth, usually.

Yeah.

So you're good friends with Seth Wickersham.

That's interesting that you guys are so close because when I think of the best modern sports writers, I think about you.

And then Seth Wickersham, when he comes out with something, you can just pretty much stamp it as gold because

he's kind of like you.

He gets everybody to talk to him that probably shouldn't be talking to him.

Oh, they, dude, if I worked in the NFL and I saw him come in, I would turn and run.

Yeah.

But like, no, I mean, he, like, I think, you know, I'm incredibly biased, but I think he's the best sports writer in America.

But yeah, we've known each other a really long time.

And,

I mean, as you guys know, it's a lot easier to do this job with a tribe, you know, with people who sort of understand.

You know, I'm in New York chasing Aaron Judge right now.

And I could call Seth and he completely understands.

You know, it's just helpful because, I mean, this is otherwise a soulless, lonely place.

So I'm super grateful.

So before you jumped on, you mentioned that you had, you know, you had followed around Tiger.

Jordan, you've gotten to know the two of them or kind of what makes them tick.

On this show, we like to elevate the discourse a little bit.

So I'll just ask you, who's better, Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan?

Michael Jordan.

Okay.

Okay, so he's the goat.

And, you know, it's interesting because, you know, I mean, I have one of the books you talked about called The Cost of These Dreams, which is a collection of my ESPN stories.

You know, two of the sort of tentpole stories in that book are a profile of Michael Jordan and a profile of Tiger Woods.

And I always thought it was, I mean,

I feel really bad for Tiger Woods because he comes along.

They don't, they have a model for what to do with a star.

It's the Michael Jordan playbook.

It's Nike and Phil Knight and Tiger's parents.

And, you know, they did what they thought was best.

And it's always astonishing that no one in that room at Nike, not...

Tinker Hatfield, not Phil Knight, nobody, it occurred to no one that the playbook had been built around Michael Jordan, who is an extreme extrovert.

And they applaud it to Tiger Woods, who is an extreme introvert.

And like, honestly, it feels like they broke him.

Yeah.

You know, there's that great John Updike quote I love, the mask eats the face.

And that happens to so many people in public life.

I mean, you know, it was happening to Jordan.

I mean, one of the interesting things about Jordan in the last 10 or 15 years is that he's been doing real work on how to deal with the existential problem of

you created created yourself to be the perfect basketball killing machine and every one of those traits that you elevated at the expense of some other trait or some other person you might have been

you basically prune the ability to enjoy having been Michael Jordan right so I think these are doing like real real work on the you know on how to be happy yeah yeah I mean even like when watching the last dance like one of the things that I think struck out is like even like a simple moment where steve kerr was like hey he's our teammate but he's kind of not attainable like he's not he he lives in a different air than everyone else and you're playing a team sport but he's michael jordan and we're just the rest of the bulls and that has to feel incredibly lonely at some point and and tiger obviously playing an individual sport could you sense that when talking to both of them like there is a there's a loneliness that the regular audience does not realize because we just see athletes on the screen and we're like those guys have have it made.

Their life is awesome.

Women, money, fame, it's the best.

Well, you know, it's so interesting.

You go read Bill Russell talking about being a star and it could be a modern guy talking and he talks about the loneliness.

You know,

I'm in New York right now doing Yankee stuff.

I was the

one of the last people in the old Yankee stadium.

Like to the point that Major League Baseball put one of those holograms on my notebook the night they closed it.

And I'm wandering around during the game and this guy sort of comes out of the shadows who works there and is like, come with me and don't tell anybody I showed you this.

And he walks me down this hall into a room that is full of chairs that have been like unbolted from the, it's like a storage room.

He's like, you know what this is?

And I'm like, what?

He goes, this used to be.

The Yankees clubhouse used to be down here.

And this is the room where Lou Gehrig would sit by himself after he knew his diagnosis and no one else did.

And like, this is the room where Lou Gehrig would sit and get ready to die.

And,

you know, if you think if you're Aaron Judge, you're not just competing against Otani.

You're competing against Ruth and Gehrig.

You're competing against DiMaggio and Mantle.

I mean, the ghost that these guys have to wrestle with on the way to being the thing they want to be.

I just find that incredibly compelling.

And I also think that if I were in their shoes, it would crush me.

I mean, I would end up on page six doing dumb shit out in New York City.

Like the guys who, you know, I mean, the guys who do this well are really superhuman to me.

And I think the, the, it's not tragic, but the, the part that always strikes me with athletes is they cannot say, hey, I'm lonely.

You know what I mean?

Like, no one wants to hear that from a star athlete.

They don't want to hear a star athlete be like, hey, there's parts of my life that kind of suck because everyone wants to be them.

So it's not only the

loneliness, but you're not going to get any sympathy for it either.

No, like, yeah, go cry on your $300 million sort of thing.

Right.

I mean, like,

it is, you know, I mean,

I've profiled a lot of athletes and almost none of them are just happy.

You know, I mean, like, the guy who, you know, the guy who was probably more, you guys remember Dale Murphy, who played for the Atlanta Brave?

Yeah.

like time mvp so murph is probably the happiest former athlete i've ever met and it is because he very intentionally when he retired set about killing the avatar of famous dale murphy and most of these guys try to hang on to it you know he went and ran like a mormon mission in boston after he retired like and not a ceremonial job you know what i mean like a hard job dealing with young people and you know you're someone's parent and there's a tremendous amount of responsibility i think the guys who are happiest are the ones who understand what it means and what it doesn't mean and are able to you know cash their checks and walk away and you're like hey whatever happened to that guy i don't know man i think he's down at key west he has dinner at manja manja every night yeah you know like like those are the people the ability to kill the avatar and not let the mask eat the face feels like like i don't have any special i just have been around a lot of guys that's the only uh sort of knowledge i have it's not like, you know, but it does feel, you know, like when you go through that collection, the cost of these streams, that collection of stories, and if you're looking for a through line, I mean, that's what, you know, the song's named after, the book is named after Drive by Trucker's lyric that I really like.

And it's because,

you know, when I went and read those stories for the first time, they spoke to each other in a way that I certainly didn't intend for them to, you know, I mean, I'm not nearly that.

smart, but I read them and I was like, oh shit, like this is, this makes sense as a through line.

Go ahead.

I was going to say, jake plumber is that way jake plumber starting a mushroom farm out in colorado kind of moved on immediately and became you know next phase in life completely different from the last phase and i i know that you spent some time around around coach k dear friend of ours uh coachewski is he like that in this next phase of life uh i know he's still got the office at the building Well, one of my favorite details is that, you know, people have to be protected from themselves.

If you've ever been in the Duke basketball office,

all of the coaches in in the team meeting rooms are on the fifth floor of that building.

And Coach Cade's office was on the sixth floor.

And if you walk out of his office, like around there, there was a stairway that led down to the fifth floor.

So he could sort of pop in and pop out.

And it's my understanding they bricked up that stairway.

So if he wants to go to the fifth floor, he has to take the elevator like everybody else.

I think these guys have a hard time letting go.

You know,

there's a scoreboard.

It's hard for me to know.

Like, I'm going to have a story come out next week and some people might really like it and some people might really hate it.

I'm going to have like a definite point of view and some people might agree.

Some people might think I'm an idiot, but there is no binary zero-sum way to be like, this story is a success or a failure.

You guys do a show, you know, shows probably, what, five days a week, and you get metrics, but like, sometimes I bet your sense of how a show went is very different than the audience's sense.

And with sports, there's a scoreboard.

And I think people get addicted to the simplicity of it.

That, like, I know whether I won or lost today.

I got two kids.

I feel like every day I'm taking L's.

You know what I mean?

Four to seven-year-old.

I just got a text message.

The seven-year-old asked about makeup.

I just wanted to kill myself on a park bench.

You gotta be kidding me.

Oh, yeah.

So, yeah.

Like, I was just like, what?

That's starting already?

Like, you know, uh,

you know, not to one-up, not to one-up you, but I watched, I took my two oldest to school today, and my, we, we, like, were late because my six-year-old son was putting on the fake earrings on my four-year-old daughter, and I was like, this is, this is too much.

They were like standing there waiting to get in the car, just pressing the little like fake earrings on.

I was like, come on, we can't be doing this yet.

No, it's funny.

Like, I had a

book that's out called Pappy Land about the history of Pappy Van Winkle.

And, you know, my wife jokingly calls it eat, pray, love for dads.

I used to think this book was like, it's full of parenting advice, and I realize it is, but just not what I meant.

The advice is just start drinking in the morning.

Yeah, yeah, wait, so I got a question about the scoreboard thing because, like, we do,

it is relatable to, you know, we're kind of in the same field where we will walk out and be like, that was a great show.

And there will be people like, we hated that show.

It's like, but we've, I think what we've done and is the longevity of what we've done is it's kind of like all about the people in the room.

If we can make ourselves laugh and we can make each other laugh, then what happens out once it's out there, it's like that's kind of out of our hands.

We're going to trust ourselves.

Do you have something like that when you're writing?

It's like, hey, if I'm interested in this, I can't control if it's going to be a hit.

I can't control if people are going to like it, but I can trust my inner self that what I'm writing about is interesting and compelling.

Well, you know,

yes.

And I mean, you have to be careful with that because you don't want to be totally self-indulgent, but you know, the longer you do this, the more you want it to be something you're interested in.

Yeah.

Like, I've gone down this crazy rabbit hole in the last two weeks of I can tell you about a 300-year history of the land beneath what is now Yankee Stadium.

And I don't know what I'm going to do with it, but it used, there was a creek there called Cromwell's Creek that ran down into the, what's that, the Harlem River, I guess.

And

or the Bronx.

I don't know, man.

My New York geography.

I'm from Mississippi.

What do you want?

And

like, I've gotten really interested in the idea that there were worlds and worlds and worlds that are now just in the dust beneath this thing that feels like it's always been there, one of the two of them, sort of between what, like 157th and 164th and river, that whole sort of complex of the old and the new Yankee Stadium.

So, I'm just really into the fact that there is this whole other history of this square of land.

I have no idea if anyone else is going to be interested in it.

I have no idea how that's going to fit into a story about the Yankees Red Sox, if it will, other than it's the thing I'm most interested in.

And so I've been way down a rabbit hole.

So it's some of that.

It's like, well, I just hope that there's someone else who thinks this is interesting and not just like totally out of left field.

Yeah, that stuff is fascinating.

One thing I'll give you credit for that you're very good at is you make,

it's men and women, but I'd say from my perspective as a men, you make men think about complex themes in life, whether it be family, where you're from, legacy, all that.

but you do it through a vein of like whiskey.

I'm going to write about whiskey.

I'm going to write about sports.

So you're like tricking us into becoming more emotional as human beings, which I appreciate.

Well, you know, I mean, the hardest thing in the world, I'm told, is to sell books to men.

And

that's what I'm trying to do, which is odd.

You know, but I mean, it's

these are the,

you know, I think about the conversations with my father and the things we bonded over.

And it was baseball games and college football games and whiskey and

James Bond movies and the guns of Navarone.

And those things to me, the way I feel about the movie The Guns of Navarone and the way that I feel about an Atlanta Braves game, I feel like come from very much the same place.

And, you know, all of these things we're talking, when you're talking about sports, you're always talking about tribe and community and inheritance.

And, you know, it's that great Jerry Seinfeld thing, you know, you're cheering for laundry, and it's sort of like, you know, I don't, my relationship with the, like I have Ole Miss football season tickets.

They were my father's season tickets.

He and I have the same name, so when he died, I just kept paying for them.

And

now I've been grandfathered in, I think.

But if they, they were, Ole Miss was talking about tearing down that grandstand and building a new one.

And they were going to move the seats.

And I wasn't going to renew them.

I don't give a shit about going to the games.

I want to go to the games and sit in those seats.

And if I had to move one row, I'm not interested in writing that check anymore.

And I think a lot of people feel that way about,

look, man, going to a game of a team you really care about, that your father cared about, that your older brother cared about, that your grandfather cared about, it's communion.

You know, I love that thing in the liturgy, the Catholic or Episcopal liturgy.

It's like, we do this in remembrance of you.

Like, that feels very real to me.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

I have a question about a piece you wrote.

You spent a year with the Celtics, and then obviously Jason Tatum gets hurt at the end of the season.

And I saw an interview you did where you had the conversation with him about like, hey, if you actually figure it out, like you have a finite amount of books that you're going to write.

He has a finite amount of

games he's going to play.

And that feeling of like, you could feel like you're in the middle of it, like you are in the pinnacle of it but there's an end point and it's hard to to to kind of conceptualize that have you talked to him since his injury because it is

as as as much as like injuries have become a part of sports where it's like oh he'll be back

you know a knee injury 30 years ago was like that guy's career's over now it's like oh he'll be back in 12 months but still a major part of his prime is going to be taken and dealing with that has to be so so heavy i have not talked to to him.

I really liked him.

I thought he was really smart and thoughtful.

You know, that story was written before he got hurt, basically.

Right.

And so I sort of had to redo huge swaths of it.

You know,

I met, you know, I don't know if you ever met Wick, the owner of the Celtics, but he, during all those Dead and Company shows last year in Vegas, I started doing these lunches

at like in the Venetian every day at 4:30.

And so everybody was in town, come to Smith and Wilinski or wherever we were, and like we're going to eat a steak and drink a great bottle of wine, and we're going to go on over.

And that's awesome

and interface with Jake Plummer.

And so the,

I'm just confident my mom is not listening to pardon my take.

So I can't.

You'd be surprised.

Yeah.

Well, if your mom is listening, just let her know.

Hey, I've eaten a lot of mushrooms in the sphere.

So sorry, Ms.

Thompson.

yeah the uh and so at one of those uh wick came was like the guest of a friend and i was so utterly charmed by the way he talked about the celtics because if i owned a sports team that i grew up caring about this is exactly how i would want to talk about it he was so pumped to tell me sort of you know uh he bought Bob Cousy a championship ring just like the one for the current players and he was pumped that in 08 when they won he engraved red Arrowbox's name on the inside of all the rings.

And, like, he, you know, just, if I owned a team, that's how I would want to be about it.

And so it really pulled, like, you know, I spent a lot of time around the Celtics.

You know, I grew up a Lakers fan.

I don't know about, like, if this was true where y'all grew up, but, you know, Lakers Celtics in the 80s was very much a code, especially in the rural South for whether you were racist or not.

And, you know, like the things people used to describe why they liked Larry Bird versus Magic Johnson were like super dog whistley.

So like I always grew up kind of hating the Celtics and then found myself just utterly charmed by their culture and by the way that they are like so proactive about

making sure that the ghost and the legends feel welcome in a way that like, you know, a lot of other teams don't.

And so I don't, I had a great time running around with the Celtics for a season.

And our friend Joe Mazzulla, I'm sure you got some good time with him.

He's a psycho, and we love that about him.

He's a complete psycho.

I walked into a press conference and the guy next to me was like, he comes in and the guy, it's clear I don't know anything.

And the guy looks next to me and goes, watch this shit.

And

it was like mono, like it, I was watching, I was like, this is.

like, oh my God, this guy's the head coach.

Like, oh my God.

Yeah.

I love the guy.

He was totally insane.

I mean, like,

just in a flat monotone,

you know, almost like sped up, like, Alfred in the chipmunk speed talking.

And I was like, this is great.

I love this guy.

So a question about your process, because like, I'm sure it's intimidating to interview Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods and Lionel Messi.

How do you like start that process?

How do you ingratiate yourself where you can get their trust?

Where you're like, hey, I'm not here to do some kind of takedown.

I'm here to learn more about you and get inside of your head, so to speak.

Well, it doesn't always work.

I mean, you know, Tiger Woods just would never, ever, ever talk to me

sort of other than in like group settings.

You know, I think like

you want to,

I think you want to end.

I mean, I'll tell you like with Jason Tatum, I wanted to find, you got to find some tiny postage stamp of common ground.

I mean, I think if you you go read the stories in the cost of these dreams, they all sort of have that starting place of, here is something that me, human being on planet Earth and you, human being on planet Earth, despite the fact that our jobs are very different, here is something that we share in common on like an existential level.

And, you know, so for Jason, with Jason Tatum, it was this idea of there is a window and it's closing.

Right.

And

I think everybody has that.

And so I just try to find a way to connect with people.

It doesn't always work.

I mean, there, you know, I've walked out of interviews.

I'm like, that guy hated me or thought I was insane.

Or,

you also, like, I don't know if you got, like, you reach a certain age and you just don't care.

Yeah.

Like, I don't particularly care if Jason Tatum likes me.

You know, like, I just don't, like, at all.

And so that's helped, that's a helpful energy of,

you know, I'm respectful.

I'm in awe of your work.

I don't particularly care about your weird modern celebrity.

And I have a bunch of questions that either will or won't be interesting.

And I think most of the time, from what I've read from you, it usually works.

You usually find some level of common ground.

You get access that nobody else would ever be able to get.

You get answers to questions that nobody would even ask.

And it turns out great.

But then I would have to imagine that there's a second phase to that relationship sometimes when you're on good terms with the person.

have great interviews, they trust you, the story comes out, and maybe there's some things things in the story that they said to you that they're very upset with themselves that they said.

Is there a plan?

Like, do you give a phone call afterwards being like, hey, just letting you know the story came out.

If you have any questions, let's talk.

Or is it just always dicey afterwards when you write those types of stories?

Well, I don't, I like to let people, you don't want to hide.

That's chicken shit.

Yeah.

I mean,

here's the story.

It's a weird move because I don't want anybody to think I'm A, fishing for compliments or B, trying to sort of lead the witness.

I mean, one thing that is interesting, why I want them to have the story is most people hear from people who've read it.

And it's like that game of telephone, like their description of it.

You know, but I mean, I've had somebody call me furious after a story ran because their wife took the hard copy of ESPN magazine into their regularly

scheduled marriage counseling session, threw it down on the desk and said, see, I told you.

It's like, here's the evidence right here.

Yeah.

Yeah, like got the receipts.

You know, I mean, like,

so I don't know.

It's a weird thing.

And I'm not trying to be buddies with anybody.

I sort of think the thing I owe you after being this invasive is that if you don't ever want to see me again, you don't have to.

You know, like, maybe the only person I keep in touch with that I've written about is Pat Riley.

Oh, interesting.

Who I just love.

I think Pat is hilarious and insane.

And, but mostly I don't.

I sort of, you know, slide in and slide out.

So Pat Riley, that's an interesting one that you keep.

I mean, Pat Riley is one of those guys who, when you actually stack it up, it's like he has been an integral part of NBA history for 40 years, 50 years.

Like it's actually insane to look at whether it being coach of the Lakers, coach of the Knicks, front office with the coach of the Heat, then front office with the Heat.

His fingerprints are all over the NBA.

What is it?

What's the secret sauce with Pat Riley?

We hear heat culture from afar, but what is it that like that makes him so unique and be able to last this long, being this successful in a very competitive league?

I mean, I think the origin story,

I mean, you guys have all obviously seen Hoosiers, where Dennis Hopper sort of stumbles drunk out onto the court.

That really happened to Pat in Schenectady, New York.

His father,

who was a failed major league baseball player, he had four bats, I think, and

almost hated his son for his success.

And

Pat was shooting free throws, and he heard something behind him.

And you can tell, and he turned around and his dad was drunk on the court, screaming at the official.

And Pat's high school basketball coach, a guy named Walt Prisbolo, who Pat just idolized,

got Pat's dad off the court and got him on the bench and let the game continue.

And, you know, I I think one of Walt Prisbolo's sons was a Miami Heat scout for a long time.

I mean, Pat's one of those guys, when his first Kentucky teammate died,

I forget who it was.

Might have been Frank Ramsey.

I forget who it was.

The heater on the road playing and the family goes into whatever the Catholic church is in Kentucky where the mass is going to be.

And the only people in the church when they walk in are the priest and Pat Riley.

And he has gotten on an airplane somewhere out in the American darkness and flown into Kentucky.

Like that, you know, he's the guy who shows up.

And so I think when you know that about him, everything starts to line up.

I mean, this is a guy for whom basketball was a family.

You know, I love this story.

He grew up in a real Italian neighborhood in Schenectady, and there was a big upstate New York mob.

And

so these guys would just feed Pat, you know, like he would eat as a guest in their kitchens and in and out of the back door and played with their sons.

And after, I think, his freshman year at Kentucky, one of these guys, he was a big mob boss, said, Patrick, uh, you can't come here anymore.

And he was like, What do you mean?

And he was sort of like, Where you're going, you don't want to be associated with me.

We love you very much, you'll be family forever, but you can't come here anymore.

And, you know, so he just grew up surrounded by a very strict, I mean, this is, you know, there's a story in the book on Pat, but like a really strict code about how a man behaves in the world.

And you just, I think, see that play out in weird public ways with him over and over and over.

Yeah, what do you think it is about Pat that he's been able to, you know, he's he's evolved over the years.

He's, you know, went from being a successful head coach to giving up the reins and moving kind of behind the scenes.

But by most measures, he's been pretty successful as that, even as he gets older.

Has he changed how he operates, or is he just going to be Pat until he's not Pat anymore?

And at that point, he's out of basketball?

I think he'll die in that job.

I mean, we had this thing where he was talking so much to me while I was reporting the story about retiring that one day I just called him.

I'm like, hey, you're not trying to tell me you're retiring, are you?

Because I don't want to have just missed all the signals.

And he laughed.

And then

they got eliminated from the playoffs on the last day of the season.

I was down in Miami, and he texted me the next day, and we went to like that Smith and Wilinski down on South Beach.

He lives in that big tower next to it.

And he was like, you want to get a drink?

And I was like, Yes.

And we sat there, had a couple of drinks.

And he's like, You know what?

You want to know what the greatest lie ever told is?

And I'm like, What?

He goes, That I'm going to retire to Malibu.

And he just started.

And I'm like, Oh, that's it.

You're never, ever going away.

You know, his wife, Chris, is great.

And the way she describes it, she's also a professional therapist.

I don't think it's an accident that he married a therapist, but she's like, you know,

Pat grew up needing to get his, you you know, his cookies are praise, and he needs it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it's fascinating because you've spent so much time around people that have excelled, that, you know, they share the common bond of excellence.

How much time do you think,

how much time do you spend thinking about the commonalities of dysfunction when it comes to leadership specifically?

I mean,

most of the time, you know, it's like that post hoc ergo propter hoc, like, you know,

Bill Belichick without Tom Brady is

a sub-500 coach.

I mean, I just sometimes wonder, like,

all a coach is, is somebody who either lucks into a star player or gets a star player and doesn't ruin it.

You know, there's that idea of like, you know, how many Super Bowl titles would the Bears have won if it had been anyone other than Ditka is the head coach.

You know what I mean?

Like, as opposed to he won a Super Bowl, is there a narrative where like, actually, actually he lost four of them?

Yeah.

You know, and so.

Andy Reid.

Andy Reed's a perfect example.

Andy Reid was known as a choker, couldn't win the big one.

Patrick Mahomes, now he's being talked about as could he be the best of all time.

That's right.

And those things are like, it's luck.

You know, I mean, I think about,

you know,

my career is probably very different if Michael Jordan doesn't say yes.

Yeah.

Like that has nothing to do with me.

You know what I mean?

Like, it was, I got him on the right day.

And so, you, you know, and you think about that all the time, about how much luck is involved in all of this.

So, yeah, I mean, I,

you know, there are teams that have cultures, and then there are teams that just have three really, really great players.

Yeah.

Michael Jordan, like, there's all, there's so many stories.

I'm actually very fascinated to see him on, you know, doing TV next year and seeing how he'll talk and if he will give us all these stories.

But when you spent time with him, my favorite are like just the little competitive stories that come out where he can't help himself.

Did you have that?

Did you see that in just following him and, like, hey, this guy, there might not be another person on earth who wants to compete to the level he wants to compete in everything?

Well, I mean, you know, this is a guy who like will be in the Bahamas and sends staff down to the gift shop to get four Sudoko books so they can all race.

This is a guy

very, very, very good at the iPad game bejeweled.

It's almost sad.

It's a long fucking way down from game six to Bejeweled.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, like, so, you know, there is

these guys don't, you don't turn it off.

Nobody who's great at anything is normal.

Like, just some people hide it.

But, you know,

I found, you know, he's a very, very serious Marlin fisherman.

I mean, I think a really great comp is Michael Jordan and Ted Williams.

You know, because Ted Williams was an excellent fisherman.

His family let me go down into his

files.

They had a huge room full of filing cabinets, and in those are all of his fishing logs.

It's his diary, though.

I mean,

you go through Ted Williams' diary, and, you know, you think about, here's your fun Ted Williams fact.

Ted Williams' mother, who was insane, literally, lived through his entire professional baseball career, never went to a single one of his games.

And when she died after he retired, he flew home to San Diego like a dutiful, wealthy son.

He paid for a very nice funeral.

He then went to her house.

He got every single family photograph and he burned them.

Wow.

Wow.

He probably should have married a therapist.

Wow.

Ted Williams could have used some Chris Riley.

I mean, the,

and so you, you know, the like there's a story in the Cost of These Dreams about Ted Williams and his mother and his son and daughter.

And the idea is like

to try to understand,

you want to create a logical framework where freezing someone's detached head makes sense.

Like that's the challenge is like to try, how did, how does this happen?

And, you know, hurt people hurt people.

And Ted Williams grew up in a terrible situation and was an awful father, like truly awful father.

And then he got really sick at the end of his life.

And suddenly, he and his kids had this relationship that they had all sort of wanted and didn't know how to have.

And the moment that they got that relationship, he started dying.

And now you understand, like, these desperate kids who had wanted this iconic father their whole lives.

And then in the last 18 months of his life, they get it.

And now they'll do anything for even the prayer of another day.

And like, so things that are totally back shit crazy start to make sense.

Yeah.

This is fascinating.

One thing that you do, you're the executive producer of a series called True South, which I have to say is one of those shows.

If you haven't seen it, they played on SEC Network a lot.

It's fantastic because it's one of those shows where you'll start, they'll run like 10 of them in a row.

You'll start watching one with no intention of staying there and watching like a show after show.

And you're like, I could watch southerners go and find local spots to eat and like talk about the land forever.

And you just wake up, you're like, oh my God, I just watched four hours of this.

So it's fantastic.

I love it.

I appreciate you.

Yeah.

My question, though, is, being from the South, knowing the South like you do,

do you think there's any tides changing with what's happening with college football?

And like, because college football is religion in the South, and it is such an important part of culture in the South.

Are you, do you see it from afar or even up close where you're like, this and this entire NIL, the big power conferences, are we losing something?

Or do you think, hey, this is going to be here no matter what for years and years and years?

Well, I mean, you know, I'm from Mississippi, which is one of, if not the only state in the country that doesn't have a Fortune 500 company.

And so at some point, like Ole Miss and Mississippi State are going to run out of money.

Yeah.

The pool is just smaller.

You know, I'm one of those people who like,

like, if the SEC just broke off and played its own thing, that would be fine with me.

Like, I don't particularly, like, you know, I watch whatever the SEC game is.

Like, I understand I'm part of the problem.

So I don't, it's always sort of been this way, but look, the South is changing tremendously.

And

the,

you know, people, like all the little, like, I'm from a little farming town in Mississippi.

And,

you know, our farm 50 years ago, we needed 400 families living on it to farm it.

And now we farm it with, I think we have 18 people.

And that's because the tractors can't turn themselves around.

The tractors are GPS controlled, but you have to have a person in them to turn them around on the pads at the end of the roads.

Rose, we're 10 years away from that being gone.

And so now you can farm enormous swaths of land with four people.

So, like, the rural South, which has in many ways been the heartbeat of SEC football fandom, is totally emptying out in a way that sort of no one's really talking about.

The farm economy, I don't know if you guys have been following this, but the price of cotton and soybeans, I mean, might be destroyed for a generation.

It's going to be a really, really hard time.

Mississippi and parts of Louisiana and Alabama and Georgia.

And so, you know, there is a, at a time when the only thing that matters in college football is how much money you can raise,

that's a scary thing if you live in the poorest part of the country.

Yeah, it is, yeah.

And going back to your childhood growing up, I read that you got kicked out of school.

Is that right?

I did get kicked out of school.

I like that.

I like a little bit of edge to you.

Well, you know, shout out to the Woodbury Forest School.

I just went and spoke there it was really interesting because they asked me to come talk and I was like you guys know you are you sure like you know what I mean like you're gonna give me access to your student body at one point you decided that wasn't a great idea

it was really

you know it was a fun night so a lot of people but yeah man I

It's interesting.

I read a book by a writer named Willie Morris called North Toward Home after I got kicked out of school.

And it really,

I didn't know, well two things one i didn't know that being a magazine writer was a job until i read this book and two he talked about the south and the way that i felt about it which is uh very much a you know what patterson hood calls the duality of the southern thing if you only hate the south you're kind of a jackass and if you only love the south you're kind of a jackass and uh i mean it better be both and in the conflict of that and in the inability to sort of separate those feelings lies the the experience.

And so, you know, it's sort of like being a Catholic convert.

Like, if you didn't go to a Catholic school and your parents didn't beat guilt into you, you're not Catholic.

I don't care if you take communion, you know, and so like it's a tribal thing.

And so I read that book and before then, I just was totally lost.

And that book really clarified a lot of things for me.

Like, you know, I sort of thought, you know, I'm going to run this farm and never leave this town.

And that book really opened a world to me.

Yeah.

So we've bonded, you and I, over our Love for the Grateful Dead.

You're going to the concert in August in San Francisco, which I'm very jealous of.

Have you thought about writing a story?

Because I would love to read a story.

And maybe

I think it's fascinating this iteration of the dead, too, because John Mayer has taken such great care with it.

And like even watching him interact with Bob Weir on the stage, I think he deserves way more credit than he gets in terms of taking taking something that's so special and

making it alive again in a way that I didn't think was possible.

Well, look, man, I mean, every time people start bitching about him, it makes my head want to explode.

Same, like, when the greatest guitar player in the world, not named Derek Trux, falls in love with your favorite band and devotes himself to learning it note for note,

you should be nothing but grateful.

I mean, the only appropriate response to John Mayer is thank you.

Yes.

You know, I would love, I don't really want to write a story so much as I want to write a book that no one else seems to want me to write, which is I want to just randomly pick 25 bootlegs out of my tape collection and then write a memoir about listening to them over and over again and call it Nakamichi.

Oh, I love that.

I love that.

Like after my tape deck.

So I got a great Nakamichi tape deck in my office and I have all of my old tapes.

And, like, you know, so like in my car, I just go to re-listen and like whatever the day's show is.

Today, let's see, today,

the show on what is, I'm pulling it up.

Here we go.

So, today, the current Grateful Dead played 6,593 at Giant Stadium, 6,580 in Tempe, 6,575.

It's a rehearsal, 6,570 at the Fillmore West, 6,569 at the Fillmore West.

And that's,

yeah, what you just described is when I try to explain to people the love of the band, because I never, I'm too young to have seen the actual Grateful Dead.

It's like, how can you be a fan of this?

Yeah, the amount of shows and like, it's the ocean.

You basically, I feel like, I feel like I'm in James Cameron's submarine in the ocean, where it's like, I can go anywhere.

And every day I see something new.

And every day I hear a song that's like, oh, now this is my favorite song.

This is my favorite version of the song.

This is my favorite year.

Like, it just, it's endless.

And And that's my love for them, you know, that they've given us just so much, so many things we can explore on our own.

And they're all so different.

And you kind of go through phases.

Like, I'm very much right now and have been for a while on like a late Brent phase.

Yeah.

89 into early 90s.

Like, to me, that's my favorite iteration of the band.

My friend David Ray Morris would slap me and be like, no, it's 74, moron.

Go listen to those five nights at the Winterland.

And so, like, I love the fact that one, there is no right answer, uh, but you kind of go through phases.

Like, I like that 87, 88, 89, 90 Brent Dead.

That is my, that's my favorite.

Like, the without a net era, like, I love that shit.

I'm with you.

The Crimson, White, and Indigo that everyone can go listen to on Spotify.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like the, the, yeah, Brent.

There's something about Brent, the, just the idea of him being in the Grateful Dead 2, wearing like a

nice button down and a Rolex watch and just jamming the fuck out of everything.

Well, you know, I mean, those guys got really rich really quick.

Yeah.

You know, and I love the idea of,

you know, they're just like, there's so many great, like, I just did all these voiceovers for the PGA championship and the number of Grateful Dead lyrics, I snuck into those things.

Yep.

I noticed.

You know, yeah, we got a, a, you used to play for silver, now we play for life.

I got a,

I got a totally apropos of nothing.

Moses came riding in on a quasar or something.

I did a fucking, like, I'm talking about sand traps and I did dark star.

Like, there's just, I'm not even trying to make it work.

I'm just like, no, this is.

This is what we're doing now.

Yeah.

And like, you know, I'm turning this enormous sporting event into my own weird sort of deadhead insider crossword positive.

that that's why i love uh uh shout out to producer jolly who works for fox where he just he's a huge deadhead and you'll just be watching

oh

sorry the hotel they're trying to call me yeah huge dead yeah jolly and you'll just be watching like seahawks cardinals and it'll just be like oh was that estimated profit going into the commercial break look the guy no i email with him all the time yeah he's like he's he's one of the great unsung heroes in sports journalism like that guy yeah we should you know what we should do we should go sell t-shirts with his face on it with no explanation i buy it i buy it

i would want i would 100 buy it or like uh if the like if somebody could turn the robot into bertha like the fox

yeah

i don't understand is the robot still exist i don't understand the robot yeah pft's the number one cletus fan on the i got a cletus mascot uniform yeah

it's a football playing robot i don't know what there's not to understand about it it's a robot and it plays football.

You know, I know I work for the competition, but that might be the dumbest goddamn thing in the history of civilization.

Like, there's a football-playing robot, yeah, all right, it works, and his name is Cletus, and it's spelled C-L-E-A-T-U-S, like a football cleat.

Get it?

You might not, you might not understand.

That's okay, it's not for everybody.

These are really, these are complicated things.

The way you felt when you first heard Althea, that's the way that I felt when I first saw Cletus.

Well,

I would in no way disrespect your deep love for Cletus.

I would say,

I hope you don't get burned.

Yeah, I don't think so.

No, there's, if something comes out about Cletus and it's like, you got to cancel Cletus now, like it's problematic.

I might be done with sports, not just football.

I just can't wait for the Cletus trial.

They got this footage of Cletus in the hallway of a hotel.

It's really bad.

Cletus was a guest of honor at a Diddy party.

Oh, he got oiled up in short-circuited, electrocuted three RV singers.

Robots require a great deal of oil.

That's true.

That's a great thing.

I might have to write a fan fiction about the downfall of Cletus.

This sounds like a great story.

Look,

look, I love you guys.

If you write fan fiction about Cletus that is even remotely psychosexual, our thing is over.

Like, you can't,

do that.

Oh, wait, just wait.

I'll do it.

Yeah.

In terms of just you as a writer, I mentioned earlier how you're able to bond so closely with some people, they trust you, all that stuff.

Have you thought about if there's the next Wright Thompson, next

young reporter able to do some of the things that you're able to do?

And he calls you and he says, I'd like to write a profile about Wright Thompson.

Would you do that?

No.

No, I've done this to way too many people to let somebody do it to me.

Hard pass.

No, I mean, like, I got asked a couple of years ago by someone who I won't name, and I was like, no, man, absolutely not.

Like, no, that's, we're not doing that.

Uh, it's funny because I reached out to Gary Smith to profile Gary, and Gary was like, nah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I was like, well, that makes, that's fair.

That makes sense.

You get it.

Yep.

Well, right, this has been awesome.

Everyone, like I said, his books are incredible.

Perfect Father's Day gift.

The cost of these dreams.

Pappy Land, there's a ton of books.

All his articles are incredible.

Go watch True South.

I got one last question for you.

It's a robot question.

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We got to do this again because you're a great storyteller.

I have one question.

It's a weird question because we started by mentioning Seth Wickersham, who you're friends with.

We mentioned, so when Seth wrote his,

he's writing that book that's coming out about QBs, QBs, and there was an article, yeah, yeah, there was an article about Caleb Williams, and I'm a Bears fan, and it was like, you know, obviously we talked about it on the show, and the next day, I got a text from a random number being like, hey, this is Seth Wickersham.

I was like, damn, this guy's good.

He's a journalist.

No one gave me a heads up.

Were you the person who gave him my number?

I was not the person, but I would have had he asked.

Okay.

And I would not have asked your permission.

Yeah, yeah.

So it was like, I just saw it pop up and I was like, this is why he's such a good journalist.

He just, no one asked.

He just, I had a text from him being like, hey, if you ever want to talk about any of the books, like, I'd love to come on.

I was like, all right, we'll have you on for sure.

And also, how the fuck did you get my number?

Let me tell you.

Let me tell you.

If he ever calls you and says he's doing a story about you,

you should just tell him every shitty thing you've ever done.

And maybe he'll be in a good mood when he cuts your arms and legs off.

You know what I was doing?

It's that great like Robert Penn Warren line from his sort of book about the governor who's based on Huey Long.

And it's like, man is conceived in evil and born into filth and passeth from the stink of the deity to the stench of the shroud.

There is always something.

Yeah, I mean, that's a great way to put it.

I would read a book that if you and Seth collaborated on a book about the life and times of Jim Ursay, I think that would be incredibly fascinating.

Yeah.

Because

I want that guitar.

Yeah, the guitar collection that he had is absolutely amazing.

He turned down a billion dollars for his guitar collection.

He has the Jerry Tiger guitar, I think.

He has the Jerry.

You know what else he has?

He has the Jerry Tiger guitar.

No, he's got the original manuscript of On the Road.

Oh, wow.

No shit.

Like the crazy one.

Like the Kerouac, you know, that it was all taped.

Like, he has that.

Yeah.

Or, well, he doesn't anymore, but you know what I mean.

And I would like that, and I'd like Jerry's Tiger guitar.

Yeah.

If someone's going to find a good home for it,

you're first in line.

I'll take the Hendrix strat that he has.

Maybe David Gilmore's black strat.

Yeah.

If anyone out there is listening, just looking, get rid of the guitars, I think we could find good homes for it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We're ready for it.

Right, you're the best.

Thank you so much, man.

And everyone go buy a book because your books are incredible.

And again, they're like buying that book for Father's Day is a great gift.

Tell you right now, it's an A-plus gift.

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And now for something completely different.

Okay, we now welcome on a very special guest and a very dear, dear friend.

It is Mike Florio.

Pro Football Talk.

You know what?

We were thinking two things, Mike.

It's getting to the point of the year where we're like under 100 days and we're like, we just want to talk some ball.

We want to talk some ball.

We love football.

We're kind of not tired of talking about NBA and NHL, but like we want to talk some football.

And also Ryan Whitney had to move to Sunday.

So we're like, let's have Mike Florio on.

Thanks.

But no, we really did want to talk ball because we, because it feels like you're getting ready for your sabbatical.

You're about to go on your little, you know, month off.

We're getting towards the end of OTAs.

So we wanted to have have you on, talk about OTAs, talk about what's going on.

So let's start with that.

Give us the top three stories from OTAs so far and how they're kind of developing.

Well, I would say, number one,

if and when Aaron Rodgers is ever going to show up in Pittsburgh, that's the thing that has had Steelers fans in a Tizzy because the Steelers are acting in a way they've never acted before to be in this voluntary holding pattern while they wait for Rodgers to make a decision.

As Cam Hayward said a couple of months ago, and this really resonated with Steelers fans, you either want to be a Steeler or you don't.

And I think Steelers fans are dismayed that Rodgers has yet to accept.

That's still pending.

Two, what's going to happen with Kirk Cousins in Atlanta?

That's hovering over the NFL right now, although there's no spot for him with another team to be a starter.

I think this plays out.

And if anybody gets injured, that may be the first call that gets made.

And third,

As they say, if you have two quarterbacks, you have none.

If you have five quarterbacks, you are the Browns.

And how in the hell are the Browns going to take this cluster of quarterbacks they have and carve it down into one guy who's going to be ready to go when the season starts?

All right, so let's unpack them.

Gun to your head.

Aaron Rodgers plays for the Pittsburgh Steelers this year.

I think he does, but I'd be concerned that

ultimately he doesn't because why hasn't he done it yet?

Why hasn't he just told people,

I'm doing it?

Now, people think that the Steelers have been privately informed he's going to do it, but at some point, he just needs to say, this is what I'm going to do.

It becomes exhausting while we play this guessing game, and he's at the Mike Studd concert or wherever Mike Studd is, answering questions.

Put on Hank's Mike.

Hank has a problem with that.

I'm sorry.

Hank has a problem with that.

Go ahead, Hank.

Hi, Hank.

It's just Mike now, and he's a great, great artist.

It's just Mike.

His name is Mike.

It's just Mike.

Formerly, artists formerly known as Mike Studd.

Great artist.

Yeah, that was a ricochet.

That was an unnecessary ricochet.

Wait, wait, heck, why did he drop the stud?

Yeah,

he's grew up, literally.

It's just like that.

Is he no longer a stud?

No, he still is.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Mike out to pasture.

You should be Mike Studd.

You are Mike Stud.

Our own Mike Studd.

You need to distinguish Mike's.

And Mike Stud is a good way to do it.

I guess if it's available.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're Mike Studon.

So you think that Aaron Rodgers at some point should tell somebody whether or not he plans to play.

I agree with that.

I understand his reasons, and I'm not going to question the idea that he's got personal issues.

People close to him are ill.

He recently told Joe Rogan in a 184-minute podcast about nothing that

he.

I don't get it, guys.

I don't get it.

I love your show.

I don't consume a lot of content.

I watched those three fucking hours, and I don't know what I heard.

I think my ears were bleeding by the time it was over.

But anyway, he mentioned he's got some people, what a great turn.

He's got people close to him who are fighting cancer.

If that's the reason, that's fine.

But you can let the world know, I intend to play for the Steelers.

He told everyone that two years ago, I intend to play for the Jets.

Months before the Jets traded for him, he said, I intend to play for the Jets.

Nothing stops him from saying, I intend to play for the Steelers.

And at some point, he just needs to do it.

So back to the Browns real quick.

You said, yeah, if you have five quarterbacks, you're the Browns.

That is accurate right now.

If you had a gun to your head on this, I'm not going to pull the gun back out, but hypothetically, gun to your head, if you were to pick one person that's going to start week one for the Cleveland Browns, who would that be?

Probably Joe Flacco.

Just because that's the guy who you can get ready with fewer first-team reps in August.

See, that's the problem.

If you take four guys to camp, now let's set Deshaun Watson aside because they've basically moved on from him.

It gets very interesting if Watson shows up with a piece of paper saying, I've been cleared to practice and play.

Then the Browns have a variety of problems, but let's set him aside.

I believe, and I don't know, but I believe that they're going to try to move Kenny Pickett before the training camp opens.

He was the insurance policy they traded for before they made any of these other moves.

Flacco is the fan favorite.

They couldn't bring Flacco back last year because they would have had to bench Deshaun Watson for Flacco.

Now he's back.

The fans are going to want him.

You can get him ready easily, and you can focus your efforts on trying to figure out between Dylan Gabriel and Shader Sanders which guy is the most likely to emerge as your long-term answer.

So I think they're going to go to camp with three guys.

I think it's going to be Flacco, Gabriel, and Sanders.

Flacco will start week one, and then once one of the other two guys is ready, they'll put that guy out there.

It could be Sanders.

It could be Gabriel.

We'll see.

Who's starting for the Giants?

Is it going to be Russ?

Is that just decided?

Well,

you know, Russ is the guy who back in 2012, when he was the third-round draft pick of the Seahawks, supplanted Matt Flynn because he was superior to him in training camp.

I think based upon where Russell Wilson is now, and Russell Wilson's done great things in the NFL, but based upon where he is right now, the Steelers wanted nothing to do with him.

Remember, the Steelers were saying before free agency, we want to bring back Justin Fields or Russell Wilson.

Field signs with the Jets.

Never mind, never mind.

We'll figure out something else.

And Wilson was out there for a few weeks before he landed with the Giants.

So the Steelers did not want him back.

I think his best days are fading into the rearview mirror.

I think in a fair competition, Jackson Dart will beat him out.

Otherwise, why the hell did you trade back into round one to get Jackson Dart if he's not good enough to beat out a 36-year-old quarterback who can't play like he used to because he can't run away from pressure like he used to?

So I think that Dart should be able to beat out Russ.

The question is, do they want that to happen?

Are they willing to do that?

Do they want to throw Dart to the Wolves week one?

You look at their schedule this year.

I mean, last year was bad for the Giants.

Holy shit.

Look at their schedule this year.

Look at the team they currently have.

I know they're better, but it's going to be a long year.

Are we just pretending Jameis doesn't exist?

What about Jackson Dart beating out Jameis Winston?

Jameis Winston, I think, is better than Russell Wilson right now.

I agree with you on that.

And Jameis Winston's a hell of a lot more fun.

And it was just weird.

You know, these teams get desperate to get a quarterback and they start doing crazy things.

When you sign Jameis Winston and then you turn around a few days later and you sign Russell Wilson,

that makes no sense to me from the standpoint of the vibe in the locker room.

You're either all in with the Jameis Winston experience or you're all in with the Russell Wilson experience.

They're two very different things.

I think Winston is a guy who could be traded before the start of training camp.

Wouldn't the Saints love to have him?

Yeah.

You think so?

I mean, I think there are teams out there that would say Winston is a better number two than what we currently have, and maybe he could make things interesting and be the number one.

By the way, you mentioned the Saints.

This is a perfect Florio fan fiction.

Is Derek Carr fully retired?

Is he just trying to get away from the Saints?

Well, I think the Saints were trying to get away from him.

Right.

It was an awkward, weird situation because

he had that shoulder injury that nobody knew about.

And

I don't want to get too deep into the contractual weeds, but the Saints owed him $40 million this year, and they weren't able to get out from under the contract before the full $40 million locked in because of the injury.

So they were stuck.

And at the end of the day, he didn't want to have the surgery and rehab and then come back and play for the Saints.

He didn't want to not have the surgery and try to play at less than 100%.

So they worked out a deal where he keeps 10 million that he's already gotten.

He gives up 30 million in pay that he would have gotten if he'd had the surgery and gone through the motions of being on injured reserve and whatnot.

And you got to respect a guy walking away from 30 million.

Now, he's made more than 200 million, but he walked away from 30 million dollars.

All he had to have was surgery and go through a rehab, and he gets the 30 million from the Saints.

I just feel like they didn't want him.

He knew they didn't want him.

And it was a good point to break apart.

The question is next year, and I'm told it's highly unlikely he ever comes back.

Next year, if he doesn't have the surgery, will he be healthy enough to play?

Will that shoulder heal with a year off?

Will he want to come back?

He's only 34, which for quarterbacks, you know, he's still got five, six, seven years left.

So, I don't completely rule it out, but the way he's talking and the way he's acting, it sounds like he's done.

I think he wants to try to get into the media.

Him and his brother have something going on now, and I think he's hoping to maybe get someone's attention and get a gig with NFL Network or somewhere.

So, I think that's his next play to try to get get into the media.

What's that beep?

Is that you?

Or is that us?

Yeah, I'm sorry.

I don't know how to turn it off.

Okay.

All good.

It's probably something important.

Who is it?

Who's texting you?

No, it's proprietary.

Okay.

Oh, interesting.

Bill Belichick to the Bucks.

Is that what it is?

I wrote that this morning.

Yeah, I read it

because that is ultimate fan fiction.

Yes.

But if it happens,

if it happens, remember where you heard it.

All right, so tell me about your theory.

Bill Belichick coaching the Buccaneers.

How does this happen?

Would Jordan approve?

Well, that's one of the wild cards that we'd have to take into account.

But, you know, last season.

Mark, you got to figure out how to turn off the sex message.

I'm sorry.

You can silence it, I think.

I don't know.

Let me try that.

I don't know how to use this fucking thing.

Hang on.

Yeah, tell Jason Light, you'll call him back.

Hang on.

What if Jordan was texting him?

How do I turn off this fucking thing?

I'll just exit.

I'll exit the messages.

Yeah, quit it.

You do it on the top.

It says like file, quit.

Yeah, yeah.

Force quit.

All right, it's gone.

Hopefully.

All right, so

that was.

I know, Mike, I love you.

That was a very old move by you to have your text messages going off.

Listen, listen.

I brought my nice laptop down to the barn so the camera would be good.

You're right.

I shouldn't factor in the text messages

may i continue yes yeah please continue

allow me to weave my fan fiction because last season belichik's concigliary mike lombardi who is basically his unofficial mouthpiece and has been very quiet since all of the jordan hudson stuff hit the fan which is hilarious lombardi wouldn't shut up until this hudson stuff happens and now you can't find him anywhere but he was putting out this idea that todd bowles would retire possibly after the 2024 season.

It was like, what the fuck?

Bowles isn't going to retire.

Bowles Callan said, but the fuck, I'm not going to retire.

So I feel like Belichick has been eyeballing the Bucs.

Maybe Lombardi was trying to speak it into existence that there'd be a vacancy there because that's one of the teams where they've got the talent.

Belichick needs the talent.

You give him the talent.

He's the best game day coach that football has ever seen.

He'll take that talent, he'll get them ready, and they'll go out there and they'll find a way to win games.

He's not so good at developing and drafting and acquiring talent, but if you give him talent, he can make it happen.

And the Bucs have done some crazy ass shit when it comes to head coaches over the years.

They fired John Gruden abruptly.

They elevate Raheem Morris, who nobody had ever heard of.

He was a defensive backs coach who goes all the way up to head coach.

They hired Greg Sciano for crying out loud in 2012.

He was on no one's radar screen as a potential head coach.

They fired Lovey Smith and promoted Dirk Cutter because they were afraid Cutter was going to parlay his one season with Jameis Winston into a head coaching job somewhere else.

And then when Tom Brady unretired, they kind of gave Bruce Arians the unofficial nudge out the door.

So the Buccaneers are willing to do kooky things if they think it's going to make them better.

And there was already some noise that, hey, maybe if they're looking for a coach, they would go in that direction.

At a time when you would think all the teams are saying no, the Bucs have a history of doing unconventional things.

And it would definitely be unconventional at this point for the Buccaneers to go after Belichick.

But it would make sense if you can hand him a talented team in a weak division where he could cobble together enough wins to get to the playoffs.

And we know he wants to be back in the NFL.

He can say he doesn't want that.

All he would like, he wants to catch Don Schula in the worst way.

And the Bucs are the one team that would make sense out of all 32 franchises for next year.

It is a good point, and I haven't really considered it.

The Bucs, yeah, they have a very, extremely chaotic record when it comes to how they handle their head coaches.

So talk to me about the June 1st thing with Belichick, because we've seen the date June 1st.

That's about the extent of my knowledge about it.

Does it make it easier for Bill to leave, or makes it easier for UNC to part ways?

No, UNC would still have to buy out whatever's guaranteed in his contract.

And I think he got three years, $10 million per year, so $30 million total.

Now he's made about six months of it, but they'd owe him the balance of the guaranteed money if they would pull the plug.

The buyout is important because that's his price tag to walk away.

And when he first signed the contract, it was a $10 million buyout.

But then, as of June 1, just five months later, it drops all the way to $1 million.

And I remember when Lombardi was trying to sell the idea that Bill's committed, he's not leaving North Carolina.

And the easy response is, well, then take out the buyout clause.

Why do you have a buyout clause in there that lets somebody write a check for a million bucks?

I mean, for one of these owners, if they really want to hire Bill Belichick, what's a million dollars?

It's nothing.

They spend less than that for a week of maintenance on their super yachts for crying out loud.

It's a write-off.

It's gone.

It's over.

You get him.

Now, as the opportunities for the NFL seem to fade, it shifted into whether or not this gives Bill power over UNC because he can say to them, hey, bring back my girlfriend, idea mill, creative muse, handler, publicist.

We're Team Jordan.

We're Team Jordan, so be careful.

You're getting into deep water here.

Fine.

That's fine.

But let her be in the building.

And if you don't, if you don't give me what I want, I'll just write the million dollars myself and I'll say, see you later, and I'll leave you high and dry without a head coach.

So he's got more power in the relationship because he can walk away now for a million bucks.

But any NFL team that wants him, if they truly want him, the buyout is no impediment whatsoever.

It's a million-dollar check.

You write it and you move on.

Yeah, it is good fan fiction, though.

I appreciated reading that this morning.

And then your team.

So, all those who accuse Mike of being biased, just remember he's biased.

He loves the Minnesota Vikings, and he will say bad things about your favorite team in service to them.

How are you feeling personally about going in this season with J.J.

McCarthy?

I have no expectations whatsoever.

The Vikings, for the past 20 years, it seems, have been on this roller coaster where every good year is followed by a bad year.

Every bad year is followed by a good year.

So I fully expect them to not be very good this year.

But I do agree with the approach of giving J.J.

McCarthy a chance to fully develop.

There was some weirdness happening right around the start of free agency with Sam Darnold.

Are they going to bring him back?

Are they going to bring back Daniel Jones?

I talked to people who were dealing with the Vikings, and the sense I was getting is nobody really knows who's calling the shots or who's making the decisions.

Is it Kevin O'Connell?

Is it Quesi Adofa Mensa?

Is it ownership?

Who's making these big picture decisions about who the quarterback's going to be?

And they did talk to Aaron Rodgers.

They admit that.

Adofa Mensa didn't close the door on Aaron Rodgers when he talked about it a couple of months ago.

It could be Rodgers is still waiting to see if they look at the film from the OTA practices and mandatory minicamp and decide, you know what, let's just go all in with Aaron Rodgers for a year, make it like Brett Favre in 2009 and try to get back to the Super Bowl for the first time in 49 years.

I like the idea, though, of giving McCarthy his opportunity to reach his ceiling.

They haven't had a true franchise quarterback, at least since Dante Culpeper,

who had a promising career cut short by injury.

Before him, France Harkington, maybe McCarthy can be the guy.

It's the highest they've ever drafted a quarterback, I believe.

I'd have to look, it's the highest in years at a minimum that they've drafted a quarterback at 10th overall.

Let's see what this guy can do.

And so far, so good.

He throws it well.

He moves well.

If he can stay healthy, you know,

they could win some games.

The schedule is going to be harder this year, though.

It's one of the things that gets overlooked.

Last year, eight games played by the teams in the NFC North were against the AFC South and the NFC West in a season when the NFC West was down.

This year, they play all four teams of the AFC North and all four teams of the NFC East.

That's eight games swapped out much harder for the Lions, the Vikings, the Packers, and the Bears this year.

So I think all those teams, the top teams, could have a lesser record and still be better than they were last year.

Yeah, and I mean, I think the Vikings did a lot this offseason.

It's a good setup for J.J.

McCarthy.

I mean, the offensive line, they did some good things with that in free agency.

They obviously still have the best, if not, you know, if you, whatever you want to rank the receivers in Justin Jefferson, like, they are a talented team that it feels like it's a good place for J.J.

McCarthy, who's, who obviously didn't want to sit a year, but sat a year because of injury to be put into.

And I also think Kevin O'Connell is, I mean,

he's one of the best QB coaches in the league.

You got to think that that is a big plus when it comes to J.J.

McCarthy and what you're going to find out about him.

Absolutely.

And they need to complement the passing game, which is run to perfection by O'Connell, with a running game.

that can balance things out a little better.

And the moves they made at the interior offensive line are critical.

Two Colts were signed.

They used their first-round pick on the Ohio State interior offensive lineman, Donovan Jackson.

They need an edge.

They need, you know, I mean, yes, there's a lot of finesse that happens in pro football, but you still need some guys that'll punch you in the mouth when someone needs to be punched in the mouth, that'll stand up to a defensive lineman who's giving them grief or whatever and be physical.

Pass blocking, run blocking, two different things.

They need to work on their run blocking.

They need to have tougher, harder-nosed guys on the offensive line, and they're trying to do that this year.

And Jordan Mason, the guy they picked up in a trade with the 49ers, that could be one of those sneaky, great acquisitions where he can come in and just explode for the Vikings in the running game.

And if they start getting five, six, seven yards a clip, all of a sudden, a passing game gets even more wide open.

I'm getting excited now.

Maybe I'm starting to believe.

And, you know, the edge thing is very true.

You look at the Eagles and their offensive line.

So it's a good segue.

The Lions, Frank Ragnow retires.

Was this a shock at all to people in the building?

Or was it something that, hey, they kind of felt like this could happen?

And then

what is the fallout here?

Because he's obviously

a very talented center.

That offensive line was the strength of their team.

What do we like?

How are the Lions going to adjust to this?

They've had a lot of turnover this year.

They've got the rookie they picked in round two who's already taken the snaps at center.

I think that Ragnow.

Yeah.

I think they knew Ragnow was transparent, and he did him a favor by not retiring before the draft.

Because if he retires retires before the draft, then every time the Lions are on the clock or approaching being on the clock, there's a blinking red light.

They're going to draft an interior offensive lineman.

By not knowing that Ragnow was out, it allowed them to not worry about getting jumped by somebody who tries to predict, hey, you know, we kind of like that guy.

Maybe the Lions are going to take him.

Let's cut the line in front of the Lions and get the guy they may be looking at.

So I think they knew.

And this is just another example of the adversity that they're having to deal with this year.

Both coordinators gone.

Much tougher schedule.

Seven games outdoors this year.

They play all those teams from the AFC North, all the teams from the NFC.

So there's going to be some great games this year with the Lions.

But when you look at their schedule, like we were looking at the first seven games before the bye week the other day, five and two is the best case scenario.

A team that went 15-2 last year, five and two through seven games, they should be thrilled with.

So they've got to forget about last year.

They can't make excuses.

They can't say, oh, woe is us.

We've got a new offensive coordinator.

We've got a new defensive coordinator.

And I think Dan Campbell's the right guy to set that tone and get them to forget about last year and focus on this year.

This is why I love Mike because his show, which I was lucky enough to do with you many times,

like in this part of the season, they'll be like, all right, it's Wednesday, May 22nd.

What are we going to do?

We're going to just break down the Lions schedule.

I'm looking at that right now.

I love it.

It's just ball all the time.

Go through it, Mike.

So Lions.

You're living the dream.

Lions at Packers week one.

Well,

I feel like I give the edge of the home team in that one.

I hate to do the Mike and the Mad Dog.

There's a win, there's a loss.

Yeah, no, it's the best.

That's what this time of year is for, Mike.

That's why we do it.

Hey, Packers win that game.

Lions are 0-1.

Okay, Bears at Lions.

Well, hey, what an intriguing week, too, with Ben Johnson.

Yeah.

I'll give the Lions that one.

I'll give the Lions on a late field goal.

Okay, late field goal, three points.

Okay, my metrics have it five and a half for the Lions, but that's fine.

Lions at the Ravens.

You know, we've seen road teams go into Baltimore and surprise them from time to time.

It's usually like if it's a bad team, they can go in and surprise the Ravens.

The Ravens will kick the crap out of them like they did to the Lions a couple of years ago.

I'll give that one to the Ravens.

Okay, Browns at home in Detroit.

I think if the Lions lose that one, they have a very big problem.

Then they're going to Cincy.

Now, we know that the Bengals struggle at the start of years.

Yeah, but that's deep enough into the season, right?

I'll still give that one to the Lions.

I'll give that one to the Lions.

What's that have them now?

Four and two or three and two?

You got them at four and two right now, yeah.

Because you have you have Pennsylvania.

Well, no, wait, no, you, the only

you had the Packers, you had the Ravens as losses, yes, and then the Chiefs going to Arrowhead, okay, Columbus Day, the Lions did win there to start the 2023 season.

I don't know if it's playing out

So, anyway,

your text message sound is like a hearing aid that's struggling to find the frequency.

It's not the normal, it's like a sharper sound.

It gets my attention, though.

Yeah.

It doesn't interfere with my hearing aid frequency.

I'll say the Chiefs are going to rectify the week one loss from a couple of years ago.

So, that's three losses there for the Lions.

It's more losses in the first six weeks than they had all of last year.

That's all the more reason to forget about last year.

The late Vikings coach Dennis Green used to call it the valley of zero and zero.

And I think that's the hardest thing for a team that had a great season, number one seed.

You got to forget about that because now you're back at zero and zero with all of the other teams.

And, you know, if you start one and three, the year after the Vikings went 15 and one, they started like one and three or two and four.

You just got to forget about last year.

Last year's gone.

You got to focus on this year.

So these first seven games, I think, will give the Lions the idea that they need to wake it up.

I'm going to, most of these are coming from.

Yeah, thanks.

Now you're sending them through.

Please stop.

Mike, I want to do this.

Rapid fire.

Ready?

You ready for this?

Rapid fire?

Yes.

Okay.

First five weeks.

Rapid fire.

Just

no, just give me the winner.

Panthers, Jaguars.

Oh, really?

You're going to do that?

Panthers, Jaguars.

Come on.

Shit.

I don't know.

Panthers.

Okay.

Panthers, Cardinals.

Panthers.

Okay.

Falcons at Panthers.

Falcons.

Panthers at Patriots.

Patriots.

Dolphins at Panthers.

Panthers.

All right, so three and two.

That's not bad.

Even with the Lions.

Yeah.

Panthers are going to make the Super Bowl this year, Mike.

There you go.

I knew what you were doing, but that's okay.

So many teams, and this is what the NFL loves.

This time of year, between free agency and the draft, you can convince yourself,

no matter how bad your team was last year, that you can turn it around.

And we've had examples.

The Texans were as dysfunctional and god-awful as any team we've seen over the last 20 years.

And boom, in comes C.J.

Stroud and Will Anderson and D'Amico Ryans, and they win the freaking division in the first year.

The Bengals, the year that they went to the Super Bowl, they were the one team in the AFC I'd look at and say, they got no chance to make it to the playoffs.

So some of these teams that have been traditionally bad or recently bad, the Panthers, the Jets, the Jaguars, you can turn it all around in one year.

It really is amazing.

And I think that's one of the things that makes the NFL special.

You don't have fan bases that check out before the season begins like you do in baseball or basketball.

You mentioned one there.

Are we concerned about C.J.

Stroud?

What's going on there?

Well, I don't know.

Soreness in your arm that keeps it from throwing in OTAs.

Like, what the hell did you do to get your arm to the point where you can't throw in the offseason?

And Sims and I were talking about it the other day, and it's great to have a former quarterback on the show because he said, you know, you can go out there and overdo it.

And you do get to a point where your elbow or your shoulder or something isn't right.

And you just have to rest it.

But you're missing reps with a new offense, new players.

You're missing the closest thing you're going to have to live reps until training camp.

And this is the opportunity to get up to speed with the new offense they're installing.

So it's a little concerning, but if he's able to go when training camp rolls around, it's nothing to really be worried about.

I wasn't concerned until D'Amico Ryan said three times, we're not worried.

Yeah.

And then I, And then I got worried.

Yeah.

Hey, I love watching those press conferences too, and you always got to watch the hands.

And he did a good job.

He was doing the Superman Hercules stance with his hands on his hips, trying not to like, because you always got to, because it's the, you know, and it's amazing how it works.

When the guy is lying through his teeth, inevitably the hand will stray up at the key moment and kind of like, and that's the ultimate, that's the ultimate control of your body.

If you can avoid scratching or touching your your face when you're selling the bullshit, then you've got it figured out.

Yeah, I appreciate that.

So when it comes to teams, you mentioned a couple that went from worst to first, not expected to make the playoffs, ended up surprising everybody.

Give us a team this year that did not make the playoffs last year that you think will make the playoffs this year, a surprise team.

Well, I like what the Jets are doing, and I can't believe I'm saying that.

I don't think I've said that at any point in the 25 years I've been covering the NFL, but they're trying to do what the Lions did.

And the key is going to be the owner has to stay the hell out of the way.

He was way too involved last year, hired Robert Sala earlier than he should have, got involved in things he shouldn't have been involved in.

Trust Darren Moogie, the new GM, trust Aaron Glenn, the new head coach, with that Parcells streak in him, put the team above the individuals.

They didn't have a big splashy offseason where they're in the middle of all sorts of discussion and hype and talk about the Jets and look at what the Jets are doing.

It was a very meat and potatoes approach.

They believe in Justin Fields.

Justin Fields reunited with Garrett Wilson from their time together at Ohio State.

I think that's a huge positive.

They were in favor of keeping the tush push, and there's a thought that maybe they're going to use it.

Justin Fields, ESPN research had a nugget.

Since 2021, Justin Fields has converted 11 of 12 push sneak plays.

That is the highest rate between him and Jalen Hurts and Josh Allen.

And Fields is number three in the league behind Hurts and Allen.

Now, Hurts did it 100 times.

Allen's done it 55 times.

Fields only did it 12.

But I think they may be thinking about using it.

Because, look, if you can make it work, you don't have first and 10 anymore.

You got first and nine or first and eight.

Because you get an automatic yard or two when you get within the

range of the sticks.

Yeah.

I like that take.

Memes loves it.

Yeah.

Memes are our producer.

Did you demote him as like he's no longer the top florio?

Yeah, memes, memes has a very like sour relationship with you online, but this is this is going, this is big for you guys.

Memes, what do you think?

Yeah, that was really good.

I'm in for like the gotcha.

Oh, is there a gotcha?

There's no gotcha.

No, no, it's I'm it's not a setup.

It's not a setup.

I didn't do it to pander to you.

I did the fan fiction thing to pander to Hank.

I didn't do that.

I didn't do that because I don't think of you.

Mike,

I have a couple last questions.

First of all, Mike is an author.

Father's Day is coming up.

Everyone, please go buy Mike's books.

Can we buy them on Amazon?

You get them on Amazon.

$14.99 for the print editions.

But because I've got a fairly momentous weekend coming up where I'm going to turn 60,

Mike.

Whoa.

I thought we had him on.

Mike.

What?

You look great for 60.

Mike stud.

studd.

Mike Studd.

Congrats, Mike.

I'm just trying to keep up with you.

You're 50 now.

Yeah, I'm 40.

That was me texting you.

Happy birthday, by the way.

Thank you.

Anyway, this weekend, this weekend, the e-books for Father of Mine, Father of Mine, and Son of Mine, the sequel, I'm making them free both days.

I do it from time to time.

I'm trying to promote reading, like, because

people hate to read because they grew up having to read in school, and I hated having to read.

And as an adult, it takes a while to come back to it.

But I'm telling you, and I'm going to keep working on you because I'm going to get you guys, especially you, big cat, to read my book.

Yeah, I'm going to get you to read it.

I know it's up there on the shelf.

I'm going to get you to pull it down and fucking read it.

Do you know what I did, Mike?

It's right up there.

I bought a reading lamp for like, you know, the little clip that you can put on your book so at night you can

yeah, haven't is that like a birthday gift from your son?

No, haven't haven't used it, but I'm that's a that's the first step.

All right.

But anyway, they're usually, I made them 99 cents on Amazon for the e-book for this year just because I want people to buy them and read them and enjoy them because people surprisingly do buy them and read them and enjoy them.

But this weekend, they're free just for the e-book.

The print book is not free.

$14.99, you can get it now and you can give it to dad or grandpa or your uncle or your cousin or whoever for Father's Day.

I love it.

We need the AWS to go out and buy that because we do love Mike.

He's been ride or die with us from the very beginning.

All right, a couple last questions.

This is a random one, fan fiction, maybe,

that you can do an article.

What's the next NFL team to be sold?

Well, I think it'll be the Seahawks.

Okay.

All right, so not the Seahawks then.

Next after that.

You know, one of these owners is eventually going to wake up and say, shit, I'll take $10, $11, $12 billion.

I've had enough.

I've done enough.

And I hear different rumors from time to time, and I don't want to compromise any sources, but there could be like a guy that believes, hey, you know, I've done everything I can in this league, and

these teams are worth $10, $11, $12 billion now.

I'm cashing out, baby.

Now, they have a hard time finding people who have the money to buy teams,

but

they're trying to change the rules and soften it and make it a little bit easier.

But these franchise values keep going up and up.

I will not be surprised if somebody that we didn't expect to sell his or her team decides,

I'm out.

I'm good.

We're moving forward and we're taking the money.

Yeah.

Mike, I think Hank might have a last question.

Oh, yeah, let me do.

Oh, he doesn't.

He didn't respond.

He doesn't.

Oh, okay.

I have a last question.

Roback question.

Well, I texted you asking, do you have a question for Florio?

You were on your phone and you didn't see that text?

What have you been doing?

Where did you text me that?

I texted you.

I texted the group.

Card might take full group.

You didn't see it?

Mike, do you have a last question for Hank?

Wait, wait, wait.

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Sounds like Hank can't work his cell phone either, Mike.

Hank's getting old too.

Yeah, he is.

He actually is on.

His birthday's coming up.

His birthday's

in.

This must be a separate group text you guys have.

No, he's the full group.

Are you 30?

I'm 31, about to be 32.

He's about to be 32.

Hank, do you have a question for our good friend Mike Florio?

Big Cat removed Hank from the conversation.

How?

I don't know.

It says today, 11.02.

Big Cat removed Hank locked up.

Oh, I did it for my computer.

Weird.

This little guy that didn't know how to use his fucking computer.

Now we're all, yeah, we're all.

It is fucked.

I fucked myself.

You know what?

I fucked myself.

I like your question.

I look like an idiot because Mike couldn't.

You know what?

I blame the stupid chime that keeps going on.

Mike,

as a father,

again, I'm peppering.

Stop it.

I'm trying to change the subject so it's back on you.

Mike, what are your thoughts on eating ice cream at 9 a.m.?

I saw the picture of Big Cat with the ice cream cone at 9.15 in the morning.

I don't see why you shouldn't be able to eat ice cream whenever you want ice cream.

It's one of the food groups.

It's dairy, right?

You can put stuff on it to expand the horizon.

I got no problem with ice cream at 9 in the morning.

You still got to come up to our office in Chicago.

We got the machine now, so free ice cream on us.

I'm waiting for a real invitation, not the phony while he's on the air, we'll invite him up.

I'm waiting for the real, hey, would you come up and hang out with us in the studio?

Okay, we should.

You know what, Mike?

You know what, Mike?

I don't want to speak out of turn.

We have a fantasy team.

Yeah.

Jerry O'Connell helps to manage it.

Yeah.

Would you like to co-manage the team with Jerry O'Connell?

No,

no.

It's not your team.

No, no, no.

It's not your team.

No, no, no.

You wouldn't have to pay for anything.

No, no, no.

Mike, I know we've battered you mentally, and

there's years of therapy you've got to go through with the fantasy story arc with us.

We've moved on from that.

We've moved on from that.

Jerry O'Connell is our manager.

Would you be interested in being the team

general manager?

So you would be, so he's kind of the coach.

You're the general manager.

We're the owners.

You don't have to pay anything.

You got to just be the go-between so we don't have to talk to Jerry O'Connell.

Yeah.

How does Jerry O'Connell feel about that?

He's fine with it.

Yeah, he's actually pumped.

He's like, I need someone who's hovering over me and micromanaging.

Because you tell you what, he really doesn't want Adam Schefter to co-own the team with him.

Yeah.

So this would be you.

If this is real.

Yes.

If this isn't just part of one of your fucking bits to try to get me to step into it so you can say nobody gives a shit about your fantasy team, I'm happy to help out.

Okay, all right.

We're in.

But Mike, the way you just said it right there, just know that it made me want to say it in the moment that nobody, but I'm not going to because it was on the tip of my tongue

because it's not, this is not a bit.

This Jerry, he needs a little bit of help sometimes, and I think that you are the person that can help him.

This is going to be the greatest test of our friendship.

Yeah.

Because the whole time,

if you're involved in this, the entire time PFT and I will just be like literally trying to hold ourselves back of

no one gives a fuck about your fantasy, but it's our fantasy team.

Yep.

So,

Mike, you're the best.

We love you.

Love talking, Paul.

Enjoy your vacation.

When does vacation start?

It's on vacation.

The show is off

from June 13 until I think July 28th.

But ProFootball Talk.com is updated every day, and I'll be doing videos every day from either my Olive Garden set at my house or down here or wherever I happen to have a computer.

I mean,

there's always something.

We're just shutting down PFT Live for a few weeks.

We do it every year, but there'll be plenty of Pro Football Talk content.

No days off.

What's the Olive Garden set?

What do you mean?

You know, you guys have busted my balls about.

Oh, yeah.

When Italians get money, they basically become the trashiest version of themselves.

Yeah, yeah.

That's also everyone.

Yeah.

Don't give Italians money.

They'll just make an olive garden in their kitchen.

A great note to finish on.

Yeah.

All right.

My ancestors are very proud.

Hey, listen, proud Italian father here.

You know that.

My little kids.

All right, Mike.

You're the best.

We love you.

Thanks, guys.

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Okay, Firefest of the week time.

Henry.

Firefest.

I don't really.

I had a good week.

Yeah?

I'm busy.

Being PFT's golf CEO.

It's got me back in the day.

Busy, busy, busy.

But

good week.

Summertime.

Hank pulled me aside today.

He's like, just so you know, I've got a plan, but I need you to follow through on the plan.

I mean, that's fair.

Yeah, he's putting some pressure on me.

It's going to be hard work.

He's putting together a massive plan.

Like, me and PFT have a very

friendly relationship, and it's like, I don't want to be in the spot where I kind of of have to, you know, push them, but that's what it's going to have to take.

And Hank, if you have to play golf as CEO of PFT

Enterprises, if you have to supervise, then you have to supervise.

That's part of your job.

Simulation.

Yeah.

Simulate competition.

You got to get out there.

But nothing bad happened this week?

I'm curious.

Yeah, no, we're just checking in on you.

Check in on your friends.

You're just having fun?

Just having a good time?

Living life?

Yeah, it was a good week.

Quick week.

It's foggy.

this can't go outside in Chicago.

Yeah, what's up with the smog?

I think it's Canadian.

Is there smogfires?

Yeah, bad spots.

Oh, I didn't even, I haven't been outside today.

Yeah, whoops.

I think it's the Canadian wildfires again.

They're doing that shit again to us?

What the fuck?

Oh, man.

Blame Canada.

Is it like bat?

Is it bad?

Is it bad?

Real bad?

Unhealthy?

Oh, we're in red zone.

Canada's elected a new pope.

Ooh.

Red zone.

Different.

Yeah.

Okay, so you're good.

Yeah,

I can't force one.

Okay.

Great.

Don't force one.

You got this.

Man, you did a great job.

Hank kind of stole my fire fest.

Of doing nothing?

I've had a pretty good week.

It's been excellent across the board.

I don't really have too much to complain about.

I guess the only thing is softball has been canceled now for three weeks in a row.

Yeah.

It only rains on Wednesdays here in Chicago.

Yeah.

So I guess we're just going to finish the season out with the standings as is, and that's that?

I have no idea.

I don't know.

But it's kind of a bummer.

I missed playing ball.

I do too.

The great boys.

Yeah.

It is very weird that we've had three straight rainouts.

Yeah.

I guess the other fire fest, it's an impending fire fest that I'm working on with Nick and Brandon to buy the 20-seat stretch H2 limousine.

And then we're going to figure out how to monetize that later.

Which I'm in on for silent investor.

Yeah, you're a silent investor in the project.

Because I know it's going to make money.

It's going to make so much money.

I just don't know where I'm going to park it or what I'm going to do with it.

But besides that, it sounds like my best idea yet.

It looks looks sick.

And by my best idea, I mean, shout out to Nick for presenting me with the investment opportunity because he was like, PFT's got money, so I should just ask him to pay for it.

Yeah, and we'll figure out, yeah, make money later.

Buy Hummer, Limo.

Limos are going extinct.

Yeah, that's a good point.

They have been going extinct for a while.

They've become trashy.

I think it's like the

suburban has kind of taken over.

You know, black car has taken over for limos.

When I see limo, I'm just like, oh, is it prom season?

Right.

You don't think like it's like the vans.

It's like the party vans.

Yeah, like 20 years ago, you see a limo, you're like, what famous person is in there?

That doesn't exist anymore.

Yeah.

Now it's, yeah, you're right.

It's a fleet of black suburbans.

It's the giant suburbans, the convoy of those.

The Tahos.

You got the Tahos, and then you've got the like open-air party buses that people take around Nashville.

Yeah.

And those are the three genres of going out with a bunch of friends these days.

Yeah, so let's bring limos back.

Yeah, let's do it.

Zach would make a great limo driver, by the way.

With the cap and the driving gloves?

Yep.

Yep.

You ever worn driving gloves?

Never the gloves, but pretty decent driving record.

Okay.

What's that?

What's your driving record?

Pretty decent?

Everybody's got a couple, a couple tickets, some stop signs, a couple accidents.

Not crazy.

Oh, wait, a couple accidents?

How many accidents?

Only four.

That's a lot of accidents.

That's a lot of accidents.

There's some of the accidents in two of the four.

How old are you?

27.

That's a decent amount of accidents.

What were the other two?

There was a.

I mean, there was a hydroplane.

There was a, somebody ran a stop sign.

One was a rear end.

That was hand-up.

That was my bad.

That one was me.

And then the fourth one, I was a passenger, so it doesn't count.

Oh, that doesn't count.

Yeah.

Zach used to sell cars.

Oh, yeah, me too.

Yeah.

What kind of cars did you sell?

We did a new is Chrysalis Dodger Ram used as just whatever we got.

What about you?

I used cars.

You enjoyed it?

Actually, I kind of did for a little bit.

Do you sell cars or trees?

Definitely

better.

Dogs, number one, trees, number two, cars, number three.

I'm not really.

I don't know if you know this about me or not, Hank, but I'm not that knowledgeable when it comes to cars.

I watched you put Bring the El Camino back to life last night.

Camino looks good.

It does.

I watched PFT.

We got wings last night, little guy date, and I watched PFT pull up, and I was like, that fucking thing looks sick.

Yeah, it's nice and loud.

Yeah.

It's pretty sweet.

And then when he left, he the got in, then turned on.

I was like, uh-oh.

But you opened the hood, got it going.

No problem.

I know how to do like three things now with a car, which is a massive.

I'm becoming a man.

That's huge.

All right.

My Fire Fest is, I don't really have one either.

I mean, I guess it's that we got the ice cream machine.

It's up, operational, delicious, incredible.

I guess the future Fire Fest, like, I don't know if it's sustainable to do 9:15 ice cream every morning.

But I did find today that I

doing,

you know, like the Joe Rogan's big into the Sana Cold Tub?

I found that I did two cups of coffee and ice cream, and it was basically Sauna Cold Tub for my brain.

And your stomach.

And my stomach.

But I had a little bit of a pep to me that I didn't have just from the coffee.

Like it was...

I don't know.

Maybe it was just the hot and cold back-to-back that just had me feeling good.

I mean, shocks this.

Did you crash?

No.

It makes sense.

No, because that's the beauty of the ice cream machine.

The minute you think you're going to crash, you just get more ice ice cream.

Think about it, Big Cat.

What did we have for dinner last night?

Wings.

Hot wings.

Yeah.

Cold beer.

Yeah.

And you feel great while you're doing it.

I did.

It's the same thing, except for breakfast.

Yeah.

Although

going yesterday was five ice cream cones and then wings for dinner.

And you just got to wonder, how do these kidney zones keep happening?

No, I don't know.

It's a mystery to me.

But it is something that if I was nine years old and you told me, yeah, you're going to eat ice cream for lunch and then you're going to have wings for dinner, I'd be like, yeah, being an adult rock.

And then ice cream for breakfast.

I mean, you got to admit, Hank, you've been kind of a hater on the ice cream machine.

I'm just concerned.

Walking in today and seeing a line of people, not even close to noon.

Yeah.

It was 10 a.m.

And there was a big group of people

eating ice cream like

it was a coffee machine.

It's an ice cream.

It's an ice cream camera.

It was a water quarry.

It's a water quarry.

Yeah, which I love.

It's a place where we can get together and talk and share stories as office mates.

Imagine being the guy that had the under in the hockey game last night.

Yeah.

At the ice cream machine.

At the ice cream machine.

I've been doing little cones.

If you do littler cones, you can do more of them.

You don't go all the way to the top.

I made a mistake yesterday, though.

Last night.

Because people were tweeting at me and I googled Listeria.

Yeah, we also had a professional chef in here.

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

Bad stories.

Correct them on what we don't use that word.

I should not have zaggled it.

I'll refrain from that, if that's cool with you.

Yeah.

Moving forward.

On the cream team, just so you know, PFT, they refer to it as the L-word.

Okay, moving forward,

I will try not to refer to it, but I'm recounting a story of what I did last night.

And last night, I did, in fact, Google the L-word.

You know, you can get, you start getting on WebMD and stuff like that.

You trick yourself into having stage four cancer the next day.

Like, you got to be careful Googling stuff like that.

That's true.

Yeah, that's true.

You just start spiraling.

That's a good point.

Anxiety.

Shit's clean.

They're going to clean it once a week, maybe twice a week.

We're going to make sure it's clean for you.

Yeah, appreciate that.

Zach, you got a Firefest before we do numbers?

I've got a super quick one.

Yeah.

Do you have two?

So my Fire Fest of the Week is that

the developers of Marvel Rivals, which is a video game that I like to frequent to play with my friends and my brother because we don't live in the same areas, they're tanking the game.

So they're allowing these guys to do, if you're not familiar, a Smurf account, which is like in the rank system.

So what's going on here is like...

Burner.

It's like a burner for video games.

100%.

They're doing burner accounts, and they're coming down in the trenches of lower levels and just pub stomping.

So they can't compete in their current ranking.

So they like to go alternate account, come down, bully the guys who aren't to their standards.

And it's just that that's

stomped every night?

I'm getting pub stomped right now in ranked, yes.

Unfortunately.

Why don't you go smurf?

I got integrity in the game, man.

Oh, yeah.

Okay, but that actually sucks.

So they're just playing down a level and pub stomping the fuck out of you.

Yes, because they don't want to compete with the guys that are at their current standing.

So that's a plain scare.

Is that is there any is that a little bit of are you just mad you're getting beat?

Yeah, it sounds like you're just getting straight up stomped.

That's one of the aspects, but they said they'd address the smurfing in the newest update.

That is terrible in the update, and the latter part of the update is that they've changed the team-ups, and now there's a sharknado that you can light on fire.

And the sharknado is ruining the game.

It's bad.

The sharknado is too powerful.

They got to nerf the smurfs.

So, Jeff is a shark.

Jeff has an ability to swoop everybody up.

Storm is another character in the game.

She does tornadoes.

They can collab now.

Sharknado.

The third guy comes in with this fire tornadoes.

Now we've got a flame sharknado going.

And it's what was once a nice escape for me and my friends is like an existence that I don't enjoy.

You're just going to a player, Zach.

I feel like that's a big, that says a lot about you.

Who do you play with?

I'm either going Invisible Woman or I'm going Bucky Barnes.

So I'll do heels and a little bit of DPS.

No tank, though.

Okay, wait,

so every night, Zach, what you're saying is you're basically going to like literal war where you're just dying constantly and it's just not fun anymore.

Depending on the night, yes.

Last couple nights, we just began destroyed.

Damn.

It's no longer any fun.

It's not like before it was great time.

Now it's not really in existence.

Is morale low?

All-time low, yeah.

A couple guys are just like, I'm not doing it.

I'll fix it.

Oh, no.

Do you guys have like a squad name or anything?

No.

No squad name.

Just you, your brother, your boy?

Me and my brother, and then some interchangeable homies I'll swap through.

Nice.

Your homie's swapping.

They're swapping through.

Okay.

This Sharknado sounds.

It just destroys everything.

Yeah, it just picks everybody off the point.

You're trying to hold down the point, and then the Sharknado sweeps them up.

It's really unfair.

What game is this again?

Marvel Rivals, a PvP 5v5 Marvel theme.

And who's the developer?

Chinese developer.

If I was going to pronounce it, I would pronounce it incorrectly, but it was.

This sounds brutal.

Because I wouldn't have been a bitch.

I was like, I'm not afraid of Blizzard.

I thought it was Blizzard.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, I was I'm

Call of Duty.

It's like that.

You get pub stomped?

Oh, yeah.

I've been getting pub stomped recently.

Dude,

it's in the air, yeah.

Yeah, one of my squadron members really went into the DMs on a popular team, started roasting them.

So now they've got some developers that are on that team.

Now they're just amping up the difficulty level of the bots that I play against.

That can't be true.

I'm getting pub stomped.

All right, so who's what's the Chinese word that you can't pronounce?

It's Netty East.

So not as Chinese as I first thought.

Yeah.

Yeah, not as Chinese.

Nettie's games.

All right, listen to me very clearly, Netty's game.

Get the fuck out of here with the Sharknado.

You're ruining the game.

My boy's getting pub stomped, and he's about to quit entirely.

It's bad for his mentals.

And figure out the Smurfs.

Thank you guys for doing that.

Yeah, appreciate it.

Nettie's rescind the new update.

AWL, man.

Let's fight for Zach.

Like, I don't know, tweet at Net Ease Games.

Like, figure out the Smurfs.

No more pub stomping.

And fuck the Sharknado.

And if you guys see anybody anybody smurfing, feel free to report, man.

Hit that report button.

Get them gone.

Have you been reporting?

I report, yeah.

I get them out of there.

I pack them up.

I hate to say it, but I'll do it.

I mean, hypothetically, if you were to tweet at them, it would be at

net ease games underscore EN.

That's at net ease games underscore EN.

Yeah.

So, or just, oh no, tweet.

Yeah, tweet at Marvel Rivals.

That's perfect.

That's the account that gets a lot of...

Yeah.

Okay.

Treat at Marvel Rivals.

Tell them no more pub stomping.

No more Smurfing.

No more Sharknado.

You had another one?

That was it.

There's some.

Memes is saying, yes, you have another one.

I have a second one super quick.

Get to it.

Call of Duty update, also bad.

Was it bad?

I don't know.

I was talking about deleting you.

I thought you had some game on the COD update.

My bad.

So I guess second one super fast is some of the recent clips clips about, I know we've talked about a couple eating habits here.

These circle back to my mom, and

we mentioned that maybe I don't tell her the full truth about what I mean sometimes.

And then we do group FaceTimes at the end of the night, right?

So, family FaceTimes.

Oh, that's sweet.

That is super enjoyable.

It is because everybody's in different areas, you know, catch up on our days.

Really, a highlight of my day.

It's kind of taking a turn.

She's now having me report back what I'm eating for dinner.

Like, you lied to me, what's going on?

That's good, though.

Yeah, she cares.

Have you thought about try this tonight?

So what time do you do the FaceTime?

It just depends what time they get my grandpa to bed.

Usually around like anywhere from 6 to 9.

That's really sweet.

I think maybe tonight you'd just be like, hey, mom, listen, I'm getting the fucking pub stomped every fucking night.

The last thing I need is you smurfing my ass with a sharknado.

She's like, what?

Is he going insane?

So what is she?

What is she?

Is she, what's she concerned with?

Because

you're doing your thing.

She just wants to invest for me, make sure I'm healthy, you know, she didn't want me to keep, she knows I'm

real easy at habit forming.

So if I start, the habit forms, then I'm just going to keep ripping the fast food for eternity.

So

I did get ahead of it in the grocery order.

I had some ground beef.

I had some rice, avocado.

I did show her the ingredients on the counter, but that was on Monday.

And

I ended up getting that pizza.

So I had to shamefully walk the ground beef to the trash chute because that was the the last day it was good for.

But guess what?

You showed me.

She didn't get the ingredients.

Yeah, she saw the ingredients.

Now, what if she sees this clip?

This is why I only want to do the first one.

That's not fun.

Zach, I've been also asking Zach for his dinners, and he sent me just a large pepperoni pizza that he ate the whole thing of, and he said, but I did not get any knots.

No garlic knots.

Good work, good work.

But he actually then followed up saying he kind of regretted because he could have used a couple knots.

Maybe, would it make your mom feel better if you just got vitamins too?

So you're like, hey, mom, I took my vitamins today.

I think we start at the

beginning builder blocks.

I think we got to have that food pyramid down right before we start going to supplements.

No, I think you can go supplements and then you can eat whatever you want.

Start working out here at the office.

She'll be like, mom, I'm playing basketball for 10 hours a day.

So lie more, you think?

Yeah, I think you got to lie your way out of this.

That's how we got here.

I think you got to lie your way out of this.

That's not good.

Well, tell your mom, what if you said, you know what, mom, I'm just not eating dinner at all anymore.

And then she'd be like, no, you have to eat something.

Okay, yeah, good point.

I'll eat dinner.

I throw it to fast.

Yeah.

You could also do this, Zach.

This is real quick.

Why don't you start eating big lunches?

And then when she asks, what's for dinner, you'd be like, a cucumber.

Not hungry?

Just go with something.

Yeah.

Yeah, because then you're not actually lying.

I like that.

Yeah, you're telling her the truth.

You say what your dinner is.

But a big lunch, you go sluggish in the middle of the day.

It's very safe.

I think if you ate what you eat in the middle of the day, day, we wouldn't see you for the rest of the day.

That wouldn't be good for production.

Yeah.

Or you could just eat lunch at 7 p.m.

That's super fair.

Yeah.

Just move around the time of day where the eating is at.

Yeah, lunch is a state of mind.

I like that.

All right.

Good show.

We'll have Ryan Whitney on Monday to recap the weekend and do a little U.S.

Open preview.

Memes, have you had any time to think about how you didn't really congratulate me enough for my VAR, first ever VAR?

Congrats.

Okay.

Let's do number two.

That was memes.

That was memes.

That was unfortunately memes.

Fuck.

I thought you were going.

Wait till he was talking.

Sorry.

I also thought that.

77.

65.

56.

I'm going to get it today.

No, you're not.

21.

Yeah, Puppet.

99 Poke.

52.

55.

Ooh, you're right on me.

I had fifty-six.

I gotta remember my number now.

You're sixty-five

forty-four

forty-four.

Lovely ghost.

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