JJ Redick Talking NBA Playoffs, Tyrese Maxey Saves The Sixers + Are Travis Kelce And Taylor Swift On The Rocks?

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Speaker 1 Terms apply.

Speaker 1 On today's part of my take, we have our good friend JJ Reddick on the show to talk some ball, breakdown, the NBA playoffs, what happened to the Lakers, what happened to the Suns, what's going to happen going forward.

Speaker 1 We're going to do hot seat cool thrown. We have some awesome playoff action to talk about Tuesday night.

Speaker 1 And also, the Lakers got bounced. So we'll talk about that as well.
And then we'll finish with listener submitted FAQ's great show.

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Speaker 1 Okay, let's go.

Speaker 1 Now in the street, there is violence.

Speaker 1 And then I love the sound of work to be done.

Speaker 1 No place to hang out or washing.

Speaker 1 And then I can't blame all of the sounds. Oh no, we're gonna rock it down to Elite Trick Avenue.

Speaker 1 And then we'll take it higher.

Speaker 4 It's part of my take. Isn't it about Marshall Sports?

Speaker 1 Welcome to part of my take. We drove 1,700 miles of old Highway 61, the whole country top to bottom, just to prove one thing.
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Speaker 1 The road trip might be over, but dinner's just getting good. Today is Wednesday, May 1st, and Tyrese Maxi is that dude.
Dog. Dog.
Dog.

Speaker 4 Seven points in the final 25 seconds tonight. Finished with 46 mandatory points.
He said it was a mandatory win. He made everyone.

Speaker 4 He was right. It was mandatory.

Speaker 4 I want to see this series go seven.

Speaker 1 Same. Same.

Speaker 1 It was a great game. The mecha was rocking.
Jalen Brunson was balling again. And Tyrese Maxie came and snatched souls.
Joel Embiid was, you know, he was hobbling. He didn't have his best stuff.

Speaker 1 Tyrese Maxie basically saved. Did Tyrese Maxie save his legacy while also a legacy game for? It was a double legacy game.

Speaker 4 Double legacy by Tyrese. Yeah, I think it's like

Speaker 4 you got the old dog and then the young pup, and you get the young pup to

Speaker 4 breathe some life into the old dog. And Embiid was not himself tonight.
His leg was definitely hurting. He said he had a headache before the game and he was feeling it pretty bad.

Speaker 4 But Maxie brought all the energy at the end of the game.

Speaker 5 And they're going to need it.

Speaker 4 They're going to need it because they have to try to close it out on the road in game six in Philadelphia.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's going to be a big-time Knicks home game

Speaker 1 down in Wachovia. Wachovia Center.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 that was a great game, though. That was a great playoff basketball game.
I thought for the last two minutes, I was like, poor Max. The Sixers essentially just didn't let him turn this game off.

Speaker 1 Because even I actually thought, weirdly, like the first half was when the Knicks

Speaker 1 that you don't lose the game in the first half, but they had the Sixers on the ropes. Like, it felt like the Sixers were dead.
It felt like the Sixers were ready to quit.

Speaker 1 Felt like half the team was ready to quit. They cut it to five at half.
And then at the end of the game, Tyrese Maxie just with two of the biggest shots, the and one, Mitchell Robinson.

Speaker 1 I don't know how you foul there. And then that three that he hit that was just so perfect.

Speaker 1 What a game. Max, you're back.
You're alive. What are we thinking?

Speaker 1 Series of the year is back alive. Joel Embiid may not be able to walk, but you have Tyrese Maxie, so you have a puncher's chance.

Speaker 5 Yeah, Tyrese Maxie was unbelievable tonight.

Speaker 5 It was really something special to see. I can't believe that we've had this game and game two, both in the same series.

Speaker 5 Like, I would love to know, like, they both have to be like 99% on that ESPN thing of teams to lose and then win probability, yeah. Both times that they've lost.
Maxie was absolutely incredible.

Speaker 5 The four-point play, no one's talking about.

Speaker 1 The fact that he was able to get Mitchell Robinson, everyone's talking about it.

Speaker 4 We just talked about it.

Speaker 1 We just talked about how you can't follow follow that.

Speaker 4 Everyone is talking about how great that play was.

Speaker 1 But the three, I mean, the three was.

Speaker 1 Say how good that play was.

Speaker 6 It was an impressive play. The fact that he pulled it off was insane.

Speaker 4 Jake, talk about that play.

Speaker 1 It was so amazing.

Speaker 4 Everyone's talking about that play.

Speaker 1 Literally, everyone's talking about the play.

Speaker 5 Okay, no one's talking about the logo three that he hit the tie enough.

Speaker 4 It does feel like this is a trade-off from game two. You lost one, you should have won.
Now you stole one back.

Speaker 5 Like, I was just thinking about like that when I went through that run of tweets being like, I can't believe we lost that game. I can't believe we lost that game.
I can't believe we lost that game.

Speaker 5 Immediately after this,

Speaker 5 we were driving the softball. The only thing I was thinking, like, I can't believe we won that game.

Speaker 1 I can't believe we lost that game.

Speaker 1 It was over. There's 28 seconds left.

Speaker 1 It was a six-point game. Josh Hart has, or no, Josh Hart had two free throws after that, but six-point game.
You get the four-point play. Then Josh Hart goes one for two.

Speaker 1 and the three, like, that was over. You should win games when you're up six points with 28 seconds left in the NBA.
And now,

Speaker 1 Max, what, I mean, what are you going to like? Is Embiid going to be able to walk?

Speaker 5 I don't know.

Speaker 5 Embiid, honestly, Embiid, the turnovers were really, really bad for him tonight, but I was a little bit impressed that he was able to make an adjustment for his game, knowing that he wasn't going to be like his dominant self, like driving to the basket, backing down Mitchell Robinson, because, like, he isn't strong enough right now to do to do what he normally can, but he was passing the ball like really, really well.

Speaker 5 It's just that sometimes he got reckless with it with the turnovers.

Speaker 5 It sucks that he had the turnovers because this would be like a moment that you could look at him be to be like, it was nice to see that, yeah, he's hurt, he's obviously playing hurt, but he was able to do something like still beneficial for the offense.

Speaker 5 Yeah, but the turnovers were just so fucking bad.

Speaker 1 And credit to you, you never gave up on Tobias Harris. He had a huge game.
That's stick with your guys.

Speaker 5 I think later in this show, I gave up on Tobias Harris.

Speaker 1 But he had a really big game.

Speaker 4 It's a good thing you also didn't give up on Buddy Healed because Tyrese Maxie gave credit for the win to Buddy Healed today.

Speaker 4 He gave him a quick shout-out. He said he was on the bench.
I guess that was the only minute that Maxie was on the bench. He spent talking to Buddy Heald, and he was upset.

Speaker 4 He had missed free three throws, turned the ball over. Buddy Heald grabbed me and said, listen, dude, you know what you can do.
Go out and make up for it.

Speaker 1 I really appreciate Buddy for that yeah buddy was like you got to go shoot because i'm not going to so he got

Speaker 1 go shoot but

Speaker 1 that clip uh they showed the wide cam uh of maxi after

Speaker 1 uh oh or after regulation and he was just so pumped up and like to steal that moment from the knicks because that crowd was crazy knicks fans are crazy and that was i mean it was just an awesome playoff game also shout out to your guy batum

Speaker 1 with incredible incredible defense, both at the end of regulation and the end of OT,

Speaker 1 being able to stay with Jalen Brunson as he drive to the hoop. And he had two huge, I think the first one was a block.
I don't know if the second was a block, but he was just all over him. Like,

Speaker 1 those were game-defining plays being able to stay with him there.

Speaker 5 I thought there was no way Brunson wasn't making that shot. Yeah.

Speaker 5 He kind of got a step on Batum, and Batum's just so long, he was able to block that shot.

Speaker 5 Again, yeah, no one's talking about that either. No one's talking about that.

Speaker 1 I just talked about it. I just talked about it.

Speaker 4 It was a great play defensively. And then at the end of overtime, I think he kind of got in the way.

Speaker 4 Brunson wanted to pass the ball, and I forget who it was in the corner, made a step towards the basket, and

Speaker 4 Brunson passed it out of bounds, but he probably wouldn't have fucked it up that bad if Batum wasn't in his face.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, it was an awesome, awesome game. I wanted to go seven.

Speaker 1 We're going to watch game six with Max.

Speaker 6 We'll have clips for it.

Speaker 1 Also, tune into J.J. Reddick.
I give him an idea for how to give Joel Embiid more minutes, which I actually think Nick Art Nurse might do in game six.

Speaker 1 If we can get him the message, my idea might work.

Speaker 1 All right, other games. These are the games, like game fives are the best because

Speaker 1 you can't fuck around to game five. We saw the Nuggets.
Like, if they had let the Lakers stay around and get into game six, you have problems.

Speaker 1 Now you have the Sixers still alive and you have the Bucs still alive, which was crazy because it felt like with no Damon, no Giannis, the Pacers. I think the Pacers probably thought this too.

Speaker 1 Like, we're just going to show up and win this game easily. And then Pat Bev happened, he was fucking insane in the first half.
And the Bucks second quarter. Yeah, he was awesome.
He was everywhere.

Speaker 1 He was basically like, he did the two small on Tyrese Hall Burton, which like that's why I love Pat Bev because he got embarrassed on the game winner, game three, I want to say. Yeah, game three.

Speaker 1 But it doesn't matter because it's just next fight. He's just, he gets off the mat and he's, he'll do it too small on him, no problem.
But the Bucs,

Speaker 1 I mean, they dominated too. Bobby Portis, Chris Middleton, everyone's stepping up.
Bucks, are the Bucks, are the Bucs going to win this series if Giannis comes back?

Speaker 4 The Bucks are alive for sure. And what happened in the last game was they just had everybody get hurt or ejected from the game.
So Bobby Portis didn't get ejected this time.

Speaker 4 And then Middleton, his knee's okay.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 I guess they'll be fine. Yeah, I mean, I think they'll be fine.
I don't think that they're, like, they probably won't be favored to win this series, even with Giannis coming back.

Speaker 4 But if they can get it to a game seven, then yes.

Speaker 1 I think Giannis was a game time decision today. Like, I feel like this is when I

Speaker 1 have to take a step back and realize.

Speaker 1 that I am actually a pussy in my own real life, but when I project on other players of sports I'm watching, I'm like, dude, how can Giannis not play tonight? Like, how can he not play?

Speaker 1 He's really

Speaker 4 you just got to want it.

Speaker 1 You got to want it. And

Speaker 4 we've been desensitized to injuries. We're like, oh, it's a sprained MCL.

Speaker 1 You can play on that.

Speaker 4 Because like Philip Rivers did one time, and we're like, oh, that's not a problem.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I tweaked my knee. I'd play.

Speaker 1 I would play. I'm just going to say right now, you can't keep me out of game five with the season on the line.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I would come hell or high water.

Speaker 4 I would play into game five unless I got less than six hours of sleep.

Speaker 1 Yeah, then I would probably be like, you know what, game time decision. I'm out.
I'm sick.

Speaker 1 I don't feel good.

Speaker 1 Also, the Cavs magic, the series. Now, this Max applies.
No one's talking about.

Speaker 1 My two thoughts from this game were Paolo is that guy. He was awesome.

Speaker 1 Connor ran out of gas. And then Evan Mobley is just an absolute freak defender because that block on on Wagner

Speaker 1 where he was like it was people are you know it was a pick and roll at the top with Paolo and Magic fans I understand are like give it a Paolo he like live and die with Paolo there like give it back to him but I think he had a step and just Evan Mobley is so good that it doesn't matter if you have a step on Evan Mobley he'll recover and he'll block the shit out of you it was awesome and no Jared Allen and Evan Mobley Mobley stepped up yeah Mobley he's been a guy that for the last three years has had like two different times each year where people are like, I think Mobley's becoming a superstar.

Speaker 4 It's just been, it's been a slow progress for him. But defensively, he's a beast.

Speaker 1 He's a monster. He's so good defensively.

Speaker 4 And my good friend Marcus Morris, or yeah, Mark is Marcus Morris, right? Made those threes down the stretch. I'd love to see that.
I'd love to see the Morrises contribute whenever possible.

Speaker 1 My question is, if this goes seven, are they going to put it on something other than NBA TV?

Speaker 4 No, this feels like it's NBA TV.

Speaker 1 This is NBA TV all the way.

Speaker 4 The Pacers have to win two consecutive championships to get off NBA TV. The finals will be on NBA TV if the Pacers are in it.

Speaker 1 Oh, man. Yeah,

Speaker 1 it's kind of a slap in their face, but it also kind of makes sense. No offense to either team.
But yeah, you just see the schedule and you're like, all right, NBA TV again.

Speaker 1 I guess that's what we're doing.

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Speaker 1 Should we talk about Monday night at all? We should. Well, you know what? Let's talk about

Speaker 4 hockey for a second.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, let's talk hockey for a second. Let's talk hockey for a second.
We're going to have some hockey. We're going to have a hockey guest on Friday and possibly Monday as well.

Speaker 1 So we're going to get more into hockey. I know that we haven't had Biz or Wit on.
They have busy schedules. Biz is doing TNT.
Wit is making everyone in the world angry.

Speaker 1 Series are ending, though. We have series ending.
The Islanders are out.

Speaker 1 The Jets are out. Who else is out?

Speaker 5 Panthers knocked out the Lightning.

Speaker 1 The Lightning are out.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the Lightning are getting swept.

Speaker 1 They won one game.

Speaker 4 I thought the Bruins were going to win tonight because the Leafs didn't have Austin Matthews.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 But what happened?

Speaker 4 They actually lost to the Leafs in overtime?

Speaker 4 I think it was overtime. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Damn. Hank,

Speaker 4 can you confirm?

Speaker 6 Just got to keep it interesting. Just got to win one in Toronto now.

Speaker 6 It's tough to win in the playoffs. You know, the Leafs are a good team.
They battled through adversity tonight, and we got to come back stronger, put Swayman in the net, and we're going to win.

Speaker 4 Now, we might say that this was maybe Ryan Whitney's doing. We'll get into Ryan Whitney a little bit later, but I feel like this one was for Ryan.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but I mean, the weirdly, I think we were talking about it on Sunday, but the NHL playoffs, it's usually there'll be like multiple game sevens in the first round and some of these like tight series, but it's, it hasn't been that way this year.

Speaker 1 Like, the, the, the Knights and Stars series is awesome. That one feels like it's going to go seven, but every other series is, and obviously, we'll see what happens to Leafs and Bruins.

Speaker 1 But a lot of these series are over, and we're already on to the second round.

Speaker 4 I thought the Islanders were going to win tonight, I really did.

Speaker 9 Memes, I thought so too. And then they scored eight two goals in eight seconds again.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that was bad.

Speaker 1 Sucked. Am I freezing or is someone else freezing?

Speaker 6 You're freezing.

Speaker 1 Shit.

Speaker 1 Fuck.

Speaker 4 Can you hear me?

Speaker 1 Yeah. I don't know what happened.
You're back now.

Speaker 4 All right.

Speaker 1 Memes, can you say it again?

Speaker 9 Which part?

Speaker 1 The whole thing. Oh, my bad.

Speaker 1 That's my bad.

Speaker 1 All right. Three, two.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it sucked.

Speaker 9 They scored two goals in eight seconds.

Speaker 1 Again. Nah, fuck.
I'm freezing.

Speaker 1 That happened again?

Speaker 1 Again.

Speaker 1 Again?

Speaker 1 Yeah, two goals in eight seconds. Yeah, we're here.

Speaker 4 All right, I'm freezing. Memes, can you say that again?

Speaker 1 I froze.

Speaker 4 Damn, it went two gold two goals

Speaker 1 eight seconds again and it sucked it sucked wait i think i just froze i think i just froze i think i just froze memes what did you say

Speaker 1 so it went maxi three-pointer from the logo two goals eight seconds again

Speaker 4 the same exact thing as game two except reversed actually it went maxi four-point play

Speaker 1 and maxi three-pointer from the logo for this. Yeah, but it went logo tie, two goals, eight seconds.

Speaker 1 I think I froze again. You got to say it one more time.
Sorry, you just have to.

Speaker 1 The hurricane scored one goal, and then they scored another goal seven seconds after that. Oh, my God.
All right, wait, hold on. Let's do this just so

Speaker 1 who missed the game. All right, so I'm going to say it right now.
Ready?

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 The

Speaker 1 Panther. The Hurricane just scored.

Speaker 4 Man, that must have sucked for Islanders fans.

Speaker 1 Maybe we'll get out more here.

Speaker 1 The hurricane just scored again.

Speaker 1 That was how fast it was.

Speaker 1 It was that fast.

Speaker 1 Oh, no, memes. Tough night for memes.

Speaker 1 Hank, I think we have to have an intervention.

Speaker 1 I want cocky Hank back.

Speaker 6 It's like,

Speaker 1 I can't live.

Speaker 1 Let me live. How about that? Cocky Hank.
Cocky Hank.

Speaker 1 You're so much better than the heat. God.
Porzinga's hurt. It's not about the heat.
Dude, he's... Hold on.
Porzinga is he's he's only going to be out a minimum of several games.

Speaker 4 Hank, what did you just say? You said it's not about the heat. I thought we were taking this one series at a time.

Speaker 6 I'm not doing this shit. I refuse to pause.

Speaker 1 I absolutely refuse to pay. I'm not going to

Speaker 1 be cocky, Hank.

Speaker 6 I just tried. I made one comment.
Then it's like, oh, I thought you were a cocky.

Speaker 1 I'm not doing this. I'm just taking all my guns.

Speaker 5 Also, the rest of the East is just going to be dead after this first round.

Speaker 1 Yeah. like it's setting up tonight.

Speaker 6 What happened tonight in Indiana, Max or Milwaukee?

Speaker 1 Copy,

Speaker 1 Hank.

Speaker 1 I just want you to just go heel turn and just be like, I'm back. Cops.

Speaker 6 Giannis or Damon, and they still won. Teams can win.
It's the playoffs. These guys are professional athletes.
They're here to win.

Speaker 1 Damon.

Speaker 6 Damien.

Speaker 1 Oh, Dame Inn or Dame. Was that a cell phone? Was it Dame Inn or Damien?

Speaker 6 Hold on, you froze.

Speaker 1 Hank, can we?

Speaker 1 What about tomorrow? Please, I just want Cocky Hank back so bad.

Speaker 1 He's not, he's not, no, no, you're just not going to negotiate with us?

Speaker 6 If I did negotiate with you last night, I said if the if the Nuggies can lose this game, then we might be in business, but they didn't.

Speaker 4 Shit. There's got to be.
Do you have like a side chat, like a side podcast that you record where

Speaker 4 you are, Cocky Hank, and you're not giving it to us?

Speaker 6 Yeah, it's my group chat with my friends from home.

Speaker 1 Okay, how about this, Hank? How about this? On Thursday's show, after the Celtics beat the Heat 4-1,

Speaker 1 how about you?

Speaker 1 We'll buy you a mask, and we can just see what we won't call you Hank, we'll call you something else, and we can just see what the cocky Hank

Speaker 1 brain is saying, but we won't hold you accountable for it. So, like, all AWS have to agree, we will not hold whoever shows up to the studio on Thursday accountable for what they say about the Celtics.

Speaker 1 Fair?

Speaker 6 No,

Speaker 1 that's good for the show.

Speaker 6 You can clip every time we talk about the Celtics the whole year. I pretty much said, like, we just got to stay healthy.

Speaker 6 And then, what happened in game four when Porzingis goes out, it looked like he was done for the season. Like, the fact that he might come back is

Speaker 6 a benefit, but

Speaker 1 he's out.

Speaker 6 Their whole game plan, the way their team plays is completely different.

Speaker 1 A minimum of several games. That's not that bad.

Speaker 6 But you saw the injury. It looked like it was a non-contact.
He knew he was hurt right now.

Speaker 1 It looked bad. I'm laughing about Wodge.
I've never seen an injury, say, a minimum of several games.

Speaker 4 So who are you playing next round? Who do you want to play next round?

Speaker 6 We've got to make it past this round first.

Speaker 4 But who do you want to play next round, hey? Oh, I want cocky yanks.

Speaker 6 I want to beat the heat on Thursday.

Speaker 1 How much money do we have to give you to get Cocky Hank back?

Speaker 1 Was it

Speaker 6 AK?

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 4 Is that the going right?

Speaker 1 You said that you negotiate.

Speaker 1 That's what I'm on the hook. Oh, right now.

Speaker 1 He wants us to

Speaker 4 absolve him of the dunk bet.

Speaker 1 Oh, interesting. But then, all right, I would be willing to do that, but we would need full cocky hank.

Speaker 1 Okay. Like the minute I need you, I would need to sign a contract, and it'd be like the minute you get down or

Speaker 1 do like, oh, we're taking one game at a time, the contract is null and void.

Speaker 1 I'll do that. That's fine.

Speaker 1 We'll talk. We'll talk more.
We'll talk more on Thursday. Maybe we'll bring, maybe we'll come with a plan, PFT.
We got to huddle up to try to get cocky hank. I've got an idea.

Speaker 4 We'll take this offline.

Speaker 1 Okay. All right.
We'll bring it back to the people on Friday's show. All right.
So

Speaker 1 the other series that we have to talk about is

Speaker 1 I do think the Lakers might not be good enough to beat the Nuggets.

Speaker 4 That might be the case.

Speaker 1 They are though. They actually.

Speaker 1 No. Maybe not.

Speaker 1 Did you see the stat of the minutes they led in the series?

Speaker 4 45-minute game. They led for over 150 minutes compared to 50 minutes for the Nuggets.
This is big.

Speaker 4 The Lakers Lakers actually won the popular vote energy from you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's crazy. It's I like, so a couple of things happen.
The Lakers, obviously, they get bounced out. LeBron says he's going to test free agency.

Speaker 1 Shams, I don't know, like, this is the new, this is just some nasty work from Shams. I actually love it because who doesn't like the post-mortem on a failed season? Shams has been doing this now.

Speaker 1 He did it with the Suns. He did it with the Lakers.
He hit publish on an article that basically ripped the coach to shreds with anonymous sources seconds after the team gets bounced.

Speaker 1 And I got into it with Lakers fans saying, like, I don't think Darvin Ham is a good coach. But the energy of Lakers fans saying, well, we led for 75% of the series.

Speaker 1 And if we had played anyone besides the Nuggets, we would have probably won a series. It's so crazy to me.
Like, if your goal is to win a title, the Lakers were never going to win a title.

Speaker 1 They were not better than the Nuggets. That's just a fact.
We have enough evidence now in two years.

Speaker 1 Hank, how can you say, like, you play the full game for a reason?

Speaker 1 Any team can be winning at half.

Speaker 1 You play a full game, and usually what happens in a full game, when you play more than 24 minutes, the better team wins.

Speaker 6 Say this out again, PFT.

Speaker 4 They were leading for 150 minutes. The Nuggets were winning for about 50 minutes.

Speaker 1 This is loser energy.

Speaker 4 Again,

Speaker 4 it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that they led for 150 minutes because at the end of the games, the Nuggets were winning four times out of five times.
Now,

Speaker 4 you could make the case like, yeah, the Lakers probably would have had a better chance against a different team. You know how you get to be able to play those different teams? Yeah.

Speaker 4 You're better throughout the course of an entire regular season.

Speaker 4 And if you do that for all those minutes, I don't, maybe, Hank, you can look up how many minutes they would have had to lead over the regular season.

Speaker 4 You can get a higher seed and maybe you can play against, I don't know, the Suns.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 this is where Lakers fans will say Darvin Ham screwed up the regular season. I get it.
Like there was the stretch where he didn't start D'Angelo Russell and Austin Reeves.

Speaker 1 He tinkered with the lineup multiple times. It all was in the shams piece.
I get it. He's not a good coach.

Speaker 1 I still think that the roster is the problem that they just don't have enough guys and the Nuggets were a better basketball team no matter how many minutes the Lakers led.

Speaker 1 Execution and like being able to win games late is what makes a team better. That's what makes you a better team, not leading a game at half.
They led it at half every single game.

Speaker 1 We said it after game one. Every game goes the same.
Lakers get a big lead. Nuggets start playing better basketball and they win the game.
And that happened four out of five games.

Speaker 1 And like, it's just crazy to me that people are like, the Lakers were just right there. They were so close.
We did this last year when they got swept. The best swept you've ever seen.
Like it's crazy.

Speaker 1 They've won one. They're one and eight against the Nuggets in the last two years.
Yet there are still people out there that are like, the Lakers are so close to beating the Nuggets.

Speaker 4 The best thing that the Lakers do is

Speaker 4 they make the Nuggets look awesome. They get the Nuggets into these crazy games and let the Nuggets just rip their hearts out down the stretch.
And I appreciate the Lakers for that.

Speaker 4 And the mayor of Los Angeles actually wanted to contribute to the same discussion that Hank's having, the Loser Talk. Put this in the Loser Talk Hall of Fame on Loser Talk Mount Rushmore.

Speaker 4 Mayor Karen Bass.

Speaker 4 This was last night.

Speaker 1 Karen.

Speaker 1 Karen.

Speaker 4 She's a major Karen. Love it.

Speaker 4 She tweeted out tough season, but at least we won the in-season tournament. Proud of our team, Lakers.

Speaker 1 Heart, heart.

Speaker 1 How about that?

Speaker 4 That's a good silver lining. Hank, you led, hang the banner, led 150 minutes in the first round of the playoffs and won the in-season tournament.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I think PFT, you agree with me. Max, you agree with me, right?

Speaker 1 Like, this is crazy, pills, that Lakers fans are like, we led for so much of the series that we're this close to beating the Nuggets, even though we are one and eight against them in the playoffs in the last two years.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it's a, it's a crazy stat that they led for that many minutes, but also you play a full game for a reason, and the Nuggets were better at playing full games of basketball.

Speaker 4 It's not that hard to understand.

Speaker 1 Right. Do you know what happens when you play a full game of basketball? You get a better sample size on which team is better.

Speaker 1 That's usually what happens.

Speaker 4 And also being able to handle late game scenarios is a big part of the game, too. And that has a lot to do with why the Nuggets keep winning and keep beating them.

Speaker 1 They're better overall.

Speaker 4 I think they definitely have better coaching. It's not to say that...
Darvin Hamm, I don't know if he's a bad coach. I don't think he's a good coach.
I don't think he's a great coach.

Speaker 4 But I wouldn't say that this is on Darvin Hamm.

Speaker 4 And if you're tinkering with the lineup during the regular season, you're doing that because you're probably not that great of a basketball team and you know that you need to get better.

Speaker 4 So it's like chicken or the egg.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 I don't think Darvin Hamm's a good coach. I just hate that he's getting 100% of the blame when,

Speaker 1 and I'm not blaming LeBron. This is not a LeBron hater thing because LeBron and AD were phenomenal.
But LeBron and A.D. are two guys that had to carry an inordinate load.

Speaker 1 And you have one of them who's 39 years old and the other who's, you know, injury prone in AD, and they just didn't have a roster with enough dudes to compete against a Nuggets team that is the best team in the NBA.

Speaker 1 And if that's your goal is to win a championship, you do get measured against the Denver Nuggets.

Speaker 1 I mean, it sucks you played them in the first round, but I also think the Timberwolves would have beat them. I also think the Thunder would have beaten them.
I don't understand

Speaker 1 why we delude ourselves into thinking that the Lakers were right there. They were a good team.
They were never a great team.

Speaker 4 Yeah, if there was a losers bracket for this,

Speaker 4 I might have,

Speaker 4 I think I would. I think I would have the Lakers first in the losers bracket, regardless of who wins in L.A., Dallas.
I think I would have the Lakers as the one seed in that.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So the other one, the Sun's article was crazy because Frank Vogel, poor Frank Vogel, he walks off the court and like looks at his phone. Shams has an article ready to go.

Speaker 1 And the start of the article is basically saying that Frank Vogel is a pussy and no one on his team respects him because uh the story goes Frank Vogel entered the home locker room at Footprint Center and lit into his team after his sons had fallen into a 35-4 hole in route to a loss to the Clippers on April 9th the head coach

Speaker 1 sound like his kids fell down into a canyon way that you just read that right there yeah the the head coach yelled so much that his voice could be heard outside the locker room there was only one problem on this night Suns players weren't buying it.

Speaker 1 The outburst seemed forced out of character in their eyes. It continued at the next day's shooter on Los Angeles.
Vogel tearing into the suns before that night's road win over the Clippers.

Speaker 1 Vogel's eruption left players rolling their eyes.

Speaker 1 Sources briefed on the matter told the athletic, that's some nasty stuff to be like, I got an anonymous source that we were rolling our eyes to our coach.

Speaker 1 That's the meanest thing you can do to roll your eyes at your coach.

Speaker 4 The article is pretty much saying when Vogel tried to get serious with the team, everybody was like, get the fuck out of here. You're not a serious person.

Speaker 4 You don't want to read that about yourself right afterwards.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 4 Now, to dispute with what Windhorse did report earlier about LeBron James and free agency, LeBron, he tweeted out this afternoon, I've seen, heard a lot of reports about my future.

Speaker 4 I said it last night. I'll say it again.
I do not know yet as I'm only thinking about spending time with my family and friends.

Speaker 4 When I know, after speaking with the fam, my counsel, as well as my representation about it, then you guys will know. Until then, nothing.
Love King.

Speaker 4 So we don't know about that report, but it seems like there's somebody that's on the Suns that is leaking information directly to Shams. If it was ready to go that quickly after the season's over.

Speaker 1 Instantly,

Speaker 4 he's fired. And what sucks is like everyone knows that he's going to be fired, right?

Speaker 1 I think Darvin Ham is probably more likely to get fired than Frank Vogel, but I also don't know. The Suns are just a mess because they're stuck.

Speaker 1 They can't trade Bradley Beale. Their only move is they can trade.
You can't trade Devin Booker because he's your future. Your only move is you can trade Kevin Durant.

Speaker 1 So they're fucked.

Speaker 1 I just,

Speaker 1 yeah,

Speaker 1 I was thinking earlier, like, the timing of these articles,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 the Suns weren't going to beat the Timberwolves, the Lakers weren't going to beat the Nuggets, but you have to think it can't be great for vibes when a series is going on and guys are giving anonymous sources about how much they hate their coach.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 1 they're more concerned with making sure that right after they lose, the spin zone goes their direction than actually winning the game.

Speaker 4 Yeah, well, you have to be. Sean's said that article ready to go in the event that they lost.

Speaker 4 It was time. He probably scheduled it knowing that they were going to lose.

Speaker 1 Dude, imagine what's on his hard drive right now because he's probably got one for every single team. Like, if they lose, he's ready to go.

Speaker 4 He definitely has one for past NBA champions that have ended up winning the entire thing.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 He's got a net, Hank. He's got a nasty one for the Celtics if they get bounced before the finals.

Speaker 1 You know that.

Speaker 1 And he's got a real. Oh, he's got a vicious one for for the Bucs for sure.
For sure.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's going to be Doc Rivers. Oh, that's going to be must-read.
Yeah, just think about it.

Speaker 1 If you're a coach in the NBA right now, you have to have alerts on for Shams, and you have to just stay up at night being like, when is this article going to drop on my head and how bad is it going to be?

Speaker 1 Last thing we had to talk about, we had a B delay. Bees are back.

Speaker 4 I love the B delay. It's my favorite part of baseball.

Speaker 4 I love the early season brawls. I love the B delays.
I love the weird injuries. That's what gets us through these dog days in MLB until the all-star break.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the Arizona Diamondbacks had to delay their game against the Dodgers because there was a bee colony set up in the netting behind home plate.

Speaker 1 They better not. They killed those bees, did they not?

Speaker 4 I don't think you can.

Speaker 1 I think they probably killed them.

Speaker 1 Do they re-home the bees?

Speaker 4 There might be some laws. Have you ever talked to the bee freaks out there that are always reminding us six times a year that bees are dying at an alarming alarming rate.

Speaker 1 They're the worst. There's no way that they

Speaker 1 didn't rehome these bees. They fucking killed these bees.
They took

Speaker 1 like a

Speaker 1 fire hose to these bees.

Speaker 4 They bring in a beekeeper every time it happens, and this guy has to find the queen. And the game of baseball is delayed until this guy in a giant white suit finds the queen.

Speaker 4 It's a whole thing. It happens in baseball at least once a year.
What is it about baseball stadiums that's so attractive to bees?

Speaker 1 I don't know. It's true, though.
They just love, they love hanging out at the ballpark. They actually,

Speaker 1 if

Speaker 1 they could figure out a way to make bees count as fans for baseball, baseball might be back.

Speaker 1 We just use that as attendance. The White Sox.

Speaker 4 A lot of buzz about this year.

Speaker 1 Yeah. There we go.
The White Sox and A's need to just get some bee colonies in the outfield. They should be like, our attendance was crazy tonight.

Speaker 1 Okay, let's kick it to ourselves back in studio. Hot C Cool Trump, JJ Reddick, FAQs,

Speaker 1 and tune in on Friday when we negotiate the return of Cocky Hank.

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Speaker 1 Okay, hot seat cool throne. Hank.

Speaker 6 My hot seat is us Uh-oh.

Speaker 1 Uh-oh.

Speaker 6 For not realizing the story that Caruso told about the guy who

Speaker 6 told his grandfather he got a hole in one, and then his grandfather died before he could tell him it was a joke, and he made the whole plaque.

Speaker 1 That was Ryan Whitney. That was Ryan Whitney.
Yep. Famous, if you've seen his work, bear fucking.

Speaker 4 Great artist.

Speaker 1 The artiste Ryan Whitney.

Speaker 4 Okay, so with the Whitney thing, a lot of people are very upset about a cartoon image. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Although I will agree that it's a weird choice that Whitney specifically typed into the AI generator, make the polar bear female

Speaker 1 and have a purse.

Speaker 1 He didn't weigh

Speaker 6 ever sniff

Speaker 6 Chat GPT or whatever.

Speaker 1 Not created.

Speaker 4 Whoever made it. Whoever made it, typing in like, give the bears a fan, I think.
Give the bear a skirt and a purse.

Speaker 4 It would have worked just the same if it was just two bears fucking each other.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but it's one of my favorite internet controversies that Whitney's involved in right now. If people don't know, Whitney, I actually think that his tweet didn't even say, like, this is so funny.

Speaker 1 He was like, this isn't right, which if he's kind of agreeing that it's not right.

Speaker 4 He's posting it for awareness of not to share it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's an AI image of a bear in a Bruins jersey, fucking a bear in a Maple Leafs jersey,

Speaker 1 and people are very upset. They immediately went to sexual assault, and I can't believe you've posted this.

Speaker 1 It's one of my favorite controversies because it just reminds me that we might be the only sane people left.

Speaker 1 Because I saw that image, and I didn't think, I was just like, oh, this is just stupid, like fans talking shit back and forth.

Speaker 1 It's bears. They're AI bears.

Speaker 4 I saw the image and I was like, sports. Yeah.
I thought about sports.

Speaker 1 They're AI bears.

Speaker 4 Polar bear was crying. It's like getting mad at

Speaker 6 whatever, Calvin pissing on a team's logo.

Speaker 1 Right. Yeah.
They're child pornography.

Speaker 4 Yes. Good point, Hank.

Speaker 1 He said, Leafs fans, I feel for you guys, this ain't right. So if anything, Whitney's agreeing with you.

Speaker 4 This ain't right. He's on your side.
This ain't right. But sometimes I think yesterday was a big gap in things to be mad about online.
Yeah. So you just need somebody to be pissed off about.

Speaker 4 And that happened to be Whitney.

Speaker 1 We stand with Whitney. Unbelievable that

Speaker 1 an AI. It was great, too, when people would just like,

Speaker 1 I saw some people replying and then someone would be like, oh, so any cartoon is okay? It's like, dude, it's bears. What are we talking about? They're AI.
It's not real.

Speaker 4 So the Taylor Swift stuff,

Speaker 4 I understand where she's coming from because she's a human being. Correct.
These are bears.

Speaker 4 And also, the bears aren't representation representation of actual bears that exist that we all know and love and care about. They're just generic bears.

Speaker 1 Also, here's a little tip. You got to always look for context clues.
The bears are fucking on ice. First of all, I don't think bears know how to.

Speaker 1 Well, actually, no, there's probably Russian bears that know how to skate. Oh, polar bears.
Yeah, sure.

Speaker 1 But in the background, there's two Bruins banners and then a Maple Leafs banner. This isn't a real arena.

Speaker 1 No. This isn't real.
This isn't a real arena. I saw that.
I was like, oh, my god, this is a fake arena.

Speaker 4 Are they title banners? Are they just...

Speaker 1 No, they're just banners. So at first, I was like, oh, my God, the Bears are fucking.
This is a horrendous image to look at. And then I saw the banners.
I was like, oh, no, you're stupid, Dan.

Speaker 1 That's not real.

Speaker 4 It could be one of the outdoor games.

Speaker 1 No, it looks like.

Speaker 4 It looks like inside a reference.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it looks like there's a roof.

Speaker 4 It could be the stadium series.

Speaker 1 And it's all Bruins fans, and then there's a Maple Leafs banner.

Speaker 4 It could be neutral sight, neutral ice.

Speaker 1 I'm going to say,

Speaker 1 yeah, actually, you know what? I'm 100% confident. I'm going to say this image isn't real.

Speaker 4 I'm going to look at it real quick. Yeah.
It might be real.

Speaker 1 No. That might have happened.
The banner thing.

Speaker 4 I think

Speaker 4 this might be at Fenway Park.

Speaker 1 They wouldn't put up a maple leaf spanner.

Speaker 4 You don't think during the stadium series they represent both teams at all?

Speaker 1 Definitely not. No, come on.
And it's also got a roof on it. Not real.
Confirmed, not real image.

Speaker 6 Not real. I don't know how that Hodge turned to that, but that makes sense.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, you brought up Brian Whitney. He is best known for Bears fucking.

Speaker 4 That is my favorite recurring bit, though, that sometimes people do.

Speaker 4 If they're submitting questions for guys on chicks or FAQs, they'll just tell a story from a movie and see if it's a movie that we haven't seen. I like that.

Speaker 1 Bad job by us. Yep.

Speaker 6 Also, it's Caruso. It wasn't on the Chick-list podcast either.
It was on a different

Speaker 6 interview on the golf podcast.

Speaker 1 That's not our fault.

Speaker 4 Do we think there's any chance that Caruso was just pawning the story off on his own?

Speaker 1 He did say a guy. Yeah, he heard.
Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 6 And then my cool throw on, it's not really D.Va wide receivers, just cocky wide receivers.

Speaker 6 I talk about it a lot on the show the last couple years. Patriots, Javon Baker, that they drafted, had this quote.
He said, bring your popcorn and make people in wheelchairs stand up.

Speaker 1 Oh, I like that. You love that.
You love that.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 6 He's that electric that he cures.

Speaker 1 Paralyzed. Paralyzation.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah, and that's nice. I like it.
And he's also pumped up. He's probably feeling himself because they got Joe Milton.

Speaker 6 Yeah, that's like maybe future D.Va wide receiver type quote, but it's not in a bad way. Like, that's how you want your wide receiver to think.

Speaker 1 I wish they would actually make him prove it. Like, bring him to a hospital, have him catch some balls, see if someone can walk again.

Speaker 4 He's like one of those mega church healers, the faith healers.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 That's going to be a hot ticket for Patriots games. If you have a disability, show up and see if he can heal you.

Speaker 1 Shouldn't this guy be used in modern medicine more than the NFL? Isn't he squandering his abilities?

Speaker 1 I mean, he literally can cure people being paralyzed. I think

Speaker 1 someone's got a neck fracture.

Speaker 1 Like, oh, fuck, he caught a touchdown in the corner of the end zone. I can walk it.

Speaker 4 You have to meet them halfway. If you really want to be healed, then you'll buy a ticket.

Speaker 4 Buying a ticket to a Patriots game, like a Dream Seat sideline pass, probably cheaper than getting back surgery. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 4 Just got to catch some T D's now.

Speaker 1 You're excited. Your back's being excited.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I'm excited. Okay.

Speaker 4 Very excited. Very excited.

Speaker 4 I saw that shirt design. You look very excited.
Very excited. And the Drake May shirt.

Speaker 1 Still need people to subscribe on Spotify. Just hit that button, subscribe, get our numbers up, and then maybe we'll release the Drake May Hank Lockwood shirt.

Speaker 4 Is that a real picture that's on there?

Speaker 1 Oh, I didn't even think about that. It might not be a real picture.

Speaker 6 It would be worse than

Speaker 1 you think so? No.

Speaker 4 I think more people would stand up for a made-up female polar bear than would stand up for.

Speaker 1 Do you know what? We should probably have Triggs update the picture and put a leaf spanner and a Bruin spanner in the background so that these people can figure out that it's not real.

Speaker 4 Not a real image. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, PFD, your hot seat cool thrown.

Speaker 4 My hot seat is Jake Paul. Jake Paul is on the hot seat because they just announced the parameters for the fight against Mike Tyson.
And although Mike Tyson is a heavy underdog, I think he's plus 300,

Speaker 4 they said that there's going to be no headgear for the fight, and it's going to be an actual heavyweight title fight. So it's going to count on their official professional records.

Speaker 4 14-ounce gloves, but no headgear, contrary to the rumors that came out, that they were going to wear headgear. So knockouts are allowed.

Speaker 4 And also, I didn't realize this, but it's going to be Taylor Serrano in the co-main event,

Speaker 4 which actually makes that should make real boxing fans want to buy this vice agreed so I'm pumped up uh because I think everybody that is most people that are paying attention to this would just like to see another Mike Tyson knockout yes just bring us back to the

Speaker 4 glory days and yes he could be 90 years old and I would still believe that he'd be able to knock somebody out without a doubt my cool throne is Davin Busters oh Busters is on the cool throne because they are now allowing customers to bet on their arcade games against each other.

Speaker 4 So if you're competing against somebody, if it's Papa Shot, if it's skee-ball, or anything else where it's like one-on-one, you can actually put wagers in and bet against each other at the table, at the games.

Speaker 4 I would like to see this expand a little bit, and anybody that's inside the Dave and Busters should be able to get in on the action and then bet on those guys.

Speaker 4 And then we should be able to watch on like a closed-circuit TV in this office and bet on two random guys that go to Dave and Busters and compete against each other in ski ball.

Speaker 9 This is the future of gaming.

Speaker 4 This is the future. Everything should be be gambleable.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 4 Dave and Busters. Wow.
That's what I would like to do.

Speaker 1 Next level.

Speaker 4 I love that. Yeah, it's really good.

Speaker 1 All right, my hot seat. I have two.
One is inside the NBA because

Speaker 1 NBC is supposedly getting closer to making an NBA deal. We might lose TNT NBA, which that would be a tragedy.
They'd have to figure out a way to keep Chuck and the guys.

Speaker 1 Chuck is, by the way, having like a legendary run right now.

Speaker 1 But Kenny and Chuck and Ernie and Shaq, they have to be somewhere. Like, what are we going to do if

Speaker 1 they're not on TNT and TNT doesn't have broadcast rights for the NBA?

Speaker 4 For the good of the league, they should just go wherever the NBA goes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Would NBC do weeknight games?

Speaker 1 I think so.

Speaker 1 We just can't have Charles Barkley not in our lives.

Speaker 4 I don't know how the contracts work with that, but they should just understand that for America, they should allow that show to go

Speaker 4 wherever wherever the NBA lives. Or, you know what? TNT, they could just do that show and not have the rights to the games.
Just watch it, yeah.

Speaker 4 Just be like, everybody turn over to Turner, whatever channel that's on, after the game, and you're going to get Chuck, Kenny, Shaq. Just keep the show going without the rights.
We can't have that.

Speaker 1 We can't lose that. People were excited, though.
They're like Round Ball Rock coming back to NBC. Listen, I love Round Ball Rock.
It obviously is like a.

Speaker 1 You listen to that song and you're like, this is 90s basketball. I just want to remind people who maybe don't watch college basketball.
Roundball rock also has been back for a while on Fox.

Speaker 1 And now, when I listen to it, I think, like, oh, here comes Creighton v. Xavier at 11 a.m.

Speaker 4 You know, the best start to your day possible is watching the live video of Jon Tesh performing Round Ball Rock. Yeah.
Where he's just bouncing around the room directing the orchestra. Yeah.

Speaker 4 That gets the blood going.

Speaker 1 My other hot seat is.

Speaker 1 A single better in New Jersey. So this story,

Speaker 1 I feel for this guy because he probably was minding his own business and then woke up on Monday and was like, what the fuck?

Speaker 1 It was the I Think You Should Leave meme where he's sitting in the back with the Tim Robinson sitting in the back room. Yeah.
He's like, what the fuck are they talking about me?

Speaker 1 It's a story about one of the sports books in New Jersey having like a huge month.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 basically it's all because one guy has been losing a lot. And so they said when we remove New Jersey from the equations, this sports book has a 2.9% market share in in the states it operates in.

Speaker 1 It's New Jersey's market share in March was 23.5

Speaker 1 because he's described as the biggest losing player in the regulated market by a mile.

Speaker 4 So it's a guy that bets against Yukon.

Speaker 1 What the fuck? Yeah. Could you imagine just waking up and seeing this and being like, they just call me the biggest loser by a mile? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm happy I don't live in New Jersey because I would definitely be like, wait, is that? Is it me?

Speaker 4 That one guy might be betting against UConn and also betting against the Oakland Athletics every single day. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And betting against

Speaker 1 anyone to beat Scotty Scheffler. Yeah.
God damn, that would suck so bad.

Speaker 4 Whoever it is, it's a big hater that's lost a lot of money.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And then my cool throne is scouting because we had some post-draft stories come out.
Albert Breer had a long story about how the

Speaker 1 three

Speaker 1 or four through six quarterbacks got selected. Michael Pennix, Bo Nicks, J.J.
McCarthy. And we had this anecdote from the Bo Nix

Speaker 1 meetings with the Broncos. So Bo Nix, the Broncos went out to Oregon to do a meeting with him, and Sean Payton saw that Bo Nicks had a backpack and asked him what's in the backpack.

Speaker 1 And Nick's, this is now Albert Brewer. Nicks reached inside, grabbed the roll of tape that he explained he'd need for his ankles if he were going to train.

Speaker 1 He also pulled out a spare pair of football cleats and a lacrosse ball that he said he'd use for rolling out his back. And what wasn't in the bag was just as significant.

Speaker 1 Everything was football-related, all of it.

Speaker 4 That's good.

Speaker 1 And they fell in love with him there.

Speaker 4 When the world's in that bag,

Speaker 4 what's not in the bag? That's just code for like he didn't have any weed. Yeah, that's also against the Fourth Amendment to just check a guy's backpack.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I just

Speaker 1 liked the stories that come out. Like, how did the Broncos end up with Bo Nix? Well, let me tell you a story.
Sean Payton asked Bo Nix what was in his backpack.

Speaker 4 Every quarterback should have to empty out their backpack and show what's in there.

Speaker 1 What happens if Bo Nix on that day had like a Game Boy and an extra burner cell phone and, I don't know, like a thong? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Probably wouldn't be on the Broncos.

Speaker 4 An AARP card. That's what Michael Pennix had.

Speaker 1 Without a pistol.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that would actually rock. I would draft that quarterback.
Yeah. He stays ready, stays strapped.

Speaker 1 This is my gun for anyone who shits on football.

Speaker 4 So, along with the draft, I learned something last week about the draft. I meant to share it with you guys.

Speaker 4 Do you know, because we've talked about on the show before, what would happen if there was just straight up free agency for every player coming out of college football. It would roll.

Speaker 4 What would that look like? So that almost happened back in, I think it was the late 70s, early 80s.

Speaker 4 There was a guy that got drafted, got injured two games into his rookie season, couldn't play anymore.

Speaker 4 He sued the league to try to figure out or to try to make money based on how much he could have got if he was like a free agent coming out in terms of signing bonus. And he won that case.

Speaker 4 And then he won the appeal for it, too. So this was going to be established law that the draft was against, I guess, against labor laws or whatever.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 And then the NFLPA made an agreement with the NFL.

Speaker 4 Okay, we understand that this goes against the existing law, but we'll agree with you to do the draft because we think it's better for the current veterans that are in the league. Yeah.

Speaker 4 And we like where this is going.

Speaker 4 So, every other league, not just the NFL, every other league professionally was going to have to end the draft if the NFLPA didn't reach a handshake agreement and be like, we know it's against the law, but we're going to let you get away with it to the NFL.

Speaker 4 Shout out the NFL. Shout out the NFL's King.

Speaker 1 This is Mike Florio's big, big topic. He loves talking about how there shouldn't be a draft.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, you can make the argument that it's definitely, it's been great for players to have this draft the way that everything is shooken out over the past like 30, 40 years.

Speaker 4 Everyone's gotten rich, but also we don't know what it would have looked like if

Speaker 4 they didn't have the draft, if it would be the same league that it is today. But, yeah, it was all based on on whoever the leader of the NFLPA was shaking the commission's hand and saying,

Speaker 4 we're going to agree to let you break the law on us. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Pretty crazy. All right, Jake, your hot seat, cool throne.

Speaker 7 Hey, guys, happy to be back.

Speaker 4 Jake,

Speaker 9 my hot seat is Cheese Ball Man.

Speaker 7 We had a huge dilemma in New York City, Union Square. Thousands of people gathered to watch a man eat cheeseballs, and he promoted it.
all over the city. And it was a giant tub of cheeseballs.

Speaker 7 And then he showed up, and now people are calling him frauds for eating a much smaller tub of cheese balls.

Speaker 4 Yes, I think this is also stolen valor from Philadelphia. Correct.
Because

Speaker 4 it's all based on the rotisserie chicken guy, which developed organically, and the guy only made a big deal out of it when he reached his 40th consecutive day of eating a chicken.

Speaker 4 Cheeseball man in New York saw that and said, I want a piece of the action.

Speaker 1 He also only did it for one day. One day.
One day.

Speaker 4 I'm not impressed with bullshit. No, I did this 20 times high in my best friend's basement when I was 18 years old.
He should have.

Speaker 1 So, one, he

Speaker 1 false advertising, the fact that he didn't do the big cheeseball thing. I wish people had stood up and been like, hey, this guy's a fraud.
You said you do the big cheese ball.

Speaker 1 The other way this works is, yeah, he should have done it.

Speaker 1 If he wanted to do it, he should have done it like the chicken man, where he would have been like, I'm going to eat one cheeseball a day until I finish this entire container, and then on the last day, I'll eat an entire container.

Speaker 4 Or he should have eaten a container every day. Yeah.
That's what would have been impressive. Like, eating one container and one sitting, that's not something to practice.

Speaker 4 That's not something that should draw a crowd.

Speaker 5 It also pissed me off, like, like everyone on Twitter being like, oh, this could only happen in New York.

Speaker 1 And it was just the worst

Speaker 1 worst version of the chicken guy.

Speaker 4 I kind of like that part of it just because it pisses you off. Only in New York.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, this is wrong.

Speaker 5 Yeah, only in New York can you do a worse version of something in Philly.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 7 Yeah, so that was interesting.

Speaker 1 And Michael, only in Philly can you see a home game for the Knicks?

Speaker 1 True. LeBron, though.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, Max is convinced.

Speaker 4 LeBron's going to be a free agent.

Speaker 4 And so Max is thinking, what if he just comes to Philly?

Speaker 1 I actually am, I would die for this to happen just because the podcast would reach a new level.

Speaker 5 Did you see that Windhorse said that LeBron is going to see free agency this summer?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, it just happened. Well, I knew that he was going to have free agency.
I think he's doing this.

Speaker 1 He's going to test free agency so that he can be like, Lakers, you're going to sign Bronnie, right?

Speaker 5 Yeah. No, no, no, no, Sixers are going to draft him in 16.

Speaker 1 In 16? Yeah. Oh, wow.
To bring LeBron in.

Speaker 4 I 100% think that would be worth it.

Speaker 4 If you're even in the conversation for getting LeBron, just take a flyer. Use your first-round pick on Bronny just to lure him to town.

Speaker 4 Because if it's even, if he's got like four places he wants to go, if one of them has his son, that's where he's going to end up. Basically, kidnapping.
Yeah, just kidnap Bronny. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, your cool throne, Jake.

Speaker 7 My cool throne's Travis Kelsey. Signed a big two-year deal.
There's the retirement rumors, but two years, $34 million.

Speaker 1 He's back. I got a question.

Speaker 1 This might be getting into waters that we we don't want to get into.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 I got a question. So he signed a deal to be the highest paid tight end in the league, right?

Speaker 1 Right?

Speaker 7 I believe so.

Speaker 1 Do we remember a certain player who was married to someone who was very rich, a billionaire, who would take less money because that would help the team. because he knew he was married to this woman.

Speaker 1 I remember that. Does anyone, does that ring a bell?

Speaker 4 I remember that.

Speaker 1 Hank, do you know the answer to that? Who was that? Tom Brady. Oh, that was Tom Brady because he was married to Giselle.

Speaker 1 Do you think maybe Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift, the relationship isn't that rock solid? Because otherwise, he would say, hey, why don't I take Les?

Speaker 1 I'm going to be fine because she's a billionaire and we're going to get married and have kids and all this stuff.

Speaker 4 I think he knows that there's a prenup coming. Interesting.
There's a big prenup coming for that one.

Speaker 1 I'm just saying.

Speaker 1 He could take Les money knowing that if he gets married to Taylor Swift, money will never be an issue for him.

Speaker 4 You know what? If Taylor Swift was a real fan of the Chiefs.

Speaker 1 Well, the argument doesn't work as well when

Speaker 5 Tom Brady and Giselle did break up.

Speaker 1 Right. No, no, but that's not what this is about.

Speaker 4 It's not what this is about. In my opinion,

Speaker 4 if Taylor Swift was as big of a Chiefs fan as she pretends to be on Switch. Correct.

Speaker 4 She would realize for the good of the franchise that she should not do a prenup with Travis Kelsey, therefore letting Travis Kelsey sign value contracts with the Chiefs and extending their championship wins.

Speaker 1 She would like, Travis Kelsey's sitting on their bed, and Taylor Swift walks over and gives him a little kiss on the forehead and says, Don't worry, sweetie, money's no problem for us.

Speaker 4 Sounds like she hates the Chiefs. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Again, I'm just asking questions.

Speaker 7 Yeah, I mean, it looked pretty strong there at Mahomes' charity event.

Speaker 1 But how strong knowing that he just took the most money, being like, I need to make my money now?

Speaker 6 They should do Monday Night Raw. Mahomes did it.

Speaker 1 Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift? Yeah. Yeah, that would rock.
That would rock. Swifties would become wrestling fans.

Speaker 4 Basically, what we're saying is that Taylor Swift should give up half of her money to men.

Speaker 4 Is that too much to ask? No.

Speaker 1 I thought we were about equality. Equality matters.

Speaker 4 50%.

Speaker 1 And if she was a true Chiefs fan, she would be like, hey, Travis, take the league minimum and let's go win another championship. Yeah, rings.

Speaker 1 What? What, hey?

Speaker 1 These are all good points, right?

Speaker 4 She's only about her personal engagement ring, not a Super Bowl ring.

Speaker 4 That's what it sounds like to me.

Speaker 4 I think that people out there will agree with us on this.

Speaker 7 You have to be selfish sometimes, and I think he deserves this title of the highest paid title.

Speaker 1 No, he's not being, no, he has to be selfish because Taylor Swift is being selfish.

Speaker 1 She has forced his hand.

Speaker 4 She's turning another man into a monster.

Speaker 1 She could basically be like, hey, let's get some star wide receivers and offensive linemen. Let's do all this.
You know what?

Speaker 1 I'll pay you $43 million a year to be my boyfriend, and you can get league minimum.

Speaker 4 I'm seeing a pattern here. Maddie Healy was a great dude before Taylor got her hands on him.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Listen, here's what what I'll say.
If in the future Kale Williams and I ever start to date and I'm a billionaire, I will take care of him

Speaker 1 in that hypothetical.

Speaker 4 But he's making a lot of money.

Speaker 1 No, I'll say, hey, take league minimum, take less money, sweetie. Yeah.
We'll be fine.

Speaker 1 I mean, we, but that's. There's a couple of hoops we have to jump through.
We have to date. Also, I have to become a billionaire.

Speaker 1 But if we get to that point, I'm at least willing to share, unlike Taylor Swift.

Speaker 4 That's what a supportive partner looks like. Correct.

Speaker 1 And it's good to see. I'm as progressive as they get.

Speaker 4 It's good to see that there's still some good people in this world. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 4 I appreciate that. Please clip that.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 We're just asking questions.

Speaker 4 That was a great conversation. It's important to have these conversations.

Speaker 1 A great segment. We haven't done that in a while.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Copy, clip that, and then tag stool president. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, let's do our interview with J.J. Reddick.
Awesome interview. Getting into basketball.
We're going to talk about the playoffs.

Speaker 1 We're going to talk about what's happening with the Lakers, Darvin Ham, Sons, everything.

Speaker 1 Let's do it. JJ Reddick.
So, y'all know that we're big fans of Cracker Barrel. And this holiday season, I will be sat at their table with a big plate of country-fried turkey.

Speaker 12 And Brandon, I'll be right there with you. And I'll check it off my Christmas list in the country store while I'm at it.
It'll make a nice holiday tradition.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's so cute of you.

Speaker 12 Enjoy all the more holiday traditions only at Cracker Barrel.

Speaker 1 Okay, we now welcome on our very good friend, recurring guest. He is a media star.
You can check him out on Old Man and the Three.

Speaker 1 You can check him out on Mind the Game Pod, or you can listen to any of the ESPN basketball games that are going on right now in the playoffs because he's on all the time. It's JJ Reddick.

Speaker 11 I appreciate you going into all the many things I'm doing right now in terms of the media landscape. It's a lot on the plate.

Speaker 11 We're putting out content for Old Man and the Three and Mind the Game and

Speaker 11 obviously traveling a bit for

Speaker 11 NBA playoffs. Very excited.
Yeah, very excited.

Speaker 1 This is actually great that you're joining us right at this second because this morning, so the Lakers got bounced from the playoffs on Monday night. Nuggets win the series 4-1.

Speaker 1 The Lakers won one game in the last two years against the Nuggets in the playoffs.

Speaker 1 I've been getting into it with Lakers fans this morning because there's this idea when they show the stat that the Lakers were leading for 150, 160 minutes, that the Lakers were right there.

Speaker 1 And now Darvin Ham's getting blamed by a lot of Lakers fans. I contest that the Lakers did not have a championship roster that was deep enough, that had enough two-way guys, that had enough bigs.

Speaker 1 And Darvin Ham, while you can criticize him, and I'm fine criticizing him, he was dealt a hand that was very difficult to beat a team like the Nuggets. What do you think about that?

Speaker 11 Yeah,

Speaker 11 here's the deal.

Speaker 11 We can't ascribe

Speaker 11 the end result

Speaker 11 and have that be an indictment on someone without the context of how that result happened. And the Denver Nuggets are the defending champion.

Speaker 11 They approached the regular season as well as any defending champion that I can remember going back probably to

Speaker 11 the Golden State Warriors

Speaker 11 with Steph and KD, right? They approached it trying to get a one seed. There's oftentimes a little championship hangover.

Speaker 11 They were rolling. They were healthy.

Speaker 11 Jamal Murray's been banged up for

Speaker 11 going on like two months now with shin splints and some calf issues. So

Speaker 11 they were healthy relative to what they were in the regular season. And

Speaker 11 it's not a great matchup for the Lakers, and it's not a great matchup for anyone, really.

Speaker 11 You know, I think this Minnesota team probably matches up as well as anyone in the NBA versus the Denver Denver Nuggets. I'm really fascinated by this series.

Speaker 11 So

Speaker 11 to lay the blame on Darvin Hamm when you're playing against the defending champions and

Speaker 11 you lose a bunch of close games, you lose on two buzzer beaters. Like, I just, I don't buy that.
I don't buy that. Now, I'm not in that locker room.
I'm not in those huddles. So I can't speak to that.

Speaker 11 But if we're just basing it on the result of losing in the first round,

Speaker 11 I just, I don't buy that.

Speaker 11 And I want to say one thing real quick, because this has been bothering me for about, what time is it, 11 o'clock? This has been bothering me for about 10 hours. Okay.

Speaker 11 That last play,

Speaker 11 I do have a problem with that last play, the Jamal Murray game winner.

Speaker 11 So

Speaker 11 you've got two guys on the left side of the court for the Nuggets. KCP was on the left wing, and Torian Prince's man was in the left corner.

Speaker 11 They basically clear clear out a side, allow the ball to get to the middle. Roy Hachimura and Torian Prince, they're literally in no man's land.
They've overloaded a side.

Speaker 11 You can afford to put Roy Hachimura in help, and it looked like Torian Prince was telling him to go there.

Speaker 11 Like, is that on Darvin Ham?

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 11 Is that on Darvin Ham?

Speaker 11 I'm not buying that.

Speaker 11 Like, if you're a basketball player at the end of a game, hey, Torian Prince, guard two, stunt for me. Let me help on this pick and roll, right? It's, that's just basketball.

Speaker 11 And, and Hatchamo had a great, great season. Him being in the starting line, I'm not placing the blame all just on Hatchamoor.

Speaker 11 I'm just saying there are certain plays within a game that can decide a game that aren't on the coach.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. So

Speaker 1 even more, though,

Speaker 1 I think, and I've heard this in the media, people being like, well, if the Lakers played anyone besides the Nuggets, like, they're the second best team in the West. I just don't think that's true.

Speaker 1 I think the Thunder are better. I think the Timberwolves are are better.
I just, this idea that the Lakers have a championship roster, they just ran into the championship team the last two years.

Speaker 1 AD and LeBron were incredible. They were superheroes in this series.

Speaker 1 They just didn't have enough dudes to play against Denver for a seven-game series or probably play against the Timberwolves or probably play against the Thunder.

Speaker 1 I just, I really do think it comes down to their roster wasn't deep enough and they didn't have enough guys that they could rely on who could play two ways and give a bunch of different looks.

Speaker 1 And then when you're the coach and you don't have those like, you know, cards that you can deal out of your hand, it does make you look worse.

Speaker 11 Yeah,

Speaker 11 that's the NBA. And that is the danger of going into coaching.

Speaker 1 Yeah, which you're not going to do. Definitely not.
That is the danger, right? 100%.

Speaker 11 Talent wins, depth wins, what roster construction, how pieces fit, all that stuff.

Speaker 11 That is the ultimate thing. And look, it's funny because you look in, let's just say regular regular season, D'Angelo Russell had a great year.
Austin Reeves had a great year.

Speaker 11 Hatchamore was more than solid. And you had two guys who were going to make all NBA teams in Anthony Davis and LeBron James.

Speaker 11 I think some of it speaks to not only everybody's like, oh, the depth of the West, the depth of the West. Here's my argument for the NBA right now.

Speaker 11 I think the overall talent depth, meaning the amount of really good players in the NBA is as high as it's ever been.

Speaker 11 And that depth of talent is spread out more than it's ever been. There's not the concentration of three really good players on one team, three really good players on another team.

Speaker 11 There's the concentration of two or three really good players on a bunch of teams.

Speaker 11 So

Speaker 11 I don't think this Lakers team was a bad team.

Speaker 11 I just think they were good relative to the rest of the NBA. Right.

Speaker 1 It's good, not championship contenders. That's kind of what I come down to.

Speaker 1 The media wants to tell us that the Lakers were on the cusp of winning a title if they didn't run into the nuggets back-to-back.

Speaker 11 You're listening to the wrong media.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's where you're going to be. I watch you.

Speaker 1 I watch you. Yeah, it's first take with it.
You're on all the time.

Speaker 4 That's where you're not going to get any coaching.

Speaker 1 You're going to miss yelling at Mad Dog and Stephen A. Smith too much.

Speaker 4 We do love you on TV, though, because sometimes it feels like you and Stephen A. or you and Mad Dog are speaking two different languages.

Speaker 4 Like Mad Dog will be doing the hot take, like screaming at the camera about the old Knicks from the 1970s. And then you're just trying to break down the game in front of them.

Speaker 4 And it's like you're trying to educate people. Mad Dog's trying to make people mad.

Speaker 4 And so it's like this conversation is, you're probably never going to reach a consensus agreement in this conversation, but it's very entertaining TV.

Speaker 11 Yeah,

Speaker 11 you can make a career out of,

Speaker 11 I don't want to say

Speaker 11 antagonizing people, but I would say like having strong opinions, even if I believe some of those opinions are, are not rooted in reality.

Speaker 11 Um, but at the end of the day, all of this, and you guys know this, and you've, Dan, you talked about this when you came on our podcast on the old man and the three.

Speaker 11 I guess that was probably a year and a half ago. Like, this is all an escape.
It's all entertainment. Yeah.
And, and, you know, we, we, when we were talking about doing this mind the game podcast, and

Speaker 11 I thought there was an a lane

Speaker 11 for

Speaker 11 education, for trying to make the average fan a little more intuitive when watching a game. That's all it is.
It doesn't mean that the entertainment portion or the debate shows are bad.

Speaker 11 People want to escape. People want to be entertained.
And I think there's a world where you could have both.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 11 Sometimes if you do it well, you can do both at the same time.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 I absolutely agree. So

Speaker 1 another team I want to talk about. So I think we settled the Lakers.
They're a good team. They were not a great team.

Speaker 1 If you put the best coach in the world, I still don't think the Lakers are winning the title this year. That was kind of my semi-defense of Darvin Himm, who I don't think is.

Speaker 11 Are you playing to the algorithm right now? Are you playing to the Lakers' algorithm?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I just, it's just crazy to me when a team loses and everyone's like, the coach has to be fired. It's like, but maybe the team wasn't that great.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I don't know if the best coach in the league could have taken the Lakers and had them beat the Nuggets because the Nuggets. Right.

Speaker 4 Like the Nuggets in their own way, they're a super team, but they're a homegrown. They've got great role players.
They've got great, they've got star power.

Speaker 4 They've got guys at multiple positions that can go out and get 30 on any given night. And then you've got Jokic that's just a piece of a puzzle that you can't solve.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 4 And I'm actually, I'm excited to see what happens in the next round because maybe you can educate us on this.

Speaker 4 Because I'm fighting like an internal battle in my brain over which way the Rudy Gobert Jokic matchup is going to go.

Speaker 4 On one hand, I think that Gobert is such a good defender that they're going to put him one-on-one on on Jokic,

Speaker 4 which could go a couple ways.

Speaker 4 It could have Jokic just go out there and dominate him because he's not getting help, or it could go like they're going to try to limit Jokic's ability to kick the ball out and hit open threes when you do draw the double team.

Speaker 4 So, can you talk us through what that matchup's going to look like and if the Wolves have a better chance than most at beating the Nuggets?

Speaker 11 Yeah,

Speaker 11 so if you go back to last year's playoffs and games this season, a lot of times, and the Wolves now are not the only team that does this, but a lot of times teams will cross-match with Jokic

Speaker 11 because Denver really wants to score in the paint. And it's not necessarily on drives, right? It's out of cuts.
It's Aaron Gordon in the dunker spot. It's obviously Jokic when he gets a deep catch.

Speaker 11 It's Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr. on back cuts.

Speaker 11 They're not like...

Speaker 11 Oklahoma City, for example, is

Speaker 11 a heavy points in the paint team, but they drive 63 times a game. They lead the league in drives per game.
Shake Gilgis Alexander has the most drives per game in the NBA, right?

Speaker 11 They drive the basketball. Denver wants to be in the paint.
They do it a little differently.

Speaker 11 So the counter to that is, and it's also to keep Gobert at the rim, is you put Carl Anthony Towns on him, you put Nas Reed on him, you put Kyle Anderson on him, and Gobert can still sit back there and protect the rim because Aaron Gordon is a non-shooting threat.

Speaker 11 A lot of teams,

Speaker 11 I say this on broadcast all the time, the shot that teams are willing to live with against the Denver Nuggets is an Aaron Gordon three.

Speaker 11 And so that cross match kind of eliminates some of that need to double because as Jokic gets deeper, Gobert is right there at the rim.

Speaker 11 And as he often says, he can be in two places at once, just like a Wembanyama, right? These guys are that.

Speaker 11 smart and that big and that long that they can be in two places at once and still maybe get a late contest, but also be there to sort of clean up anything, any dump down passes to Gordon.

Speaker 11 So that's what I would expect Minnesota to do. And even going back to last year, if you remember that first round series, Jamal Murray was incredible as he was throughout the playoffs.

Speaker 11 Jaden McDaniels punched a wall

Speaker 11 the last regular season game. So he missed that series.
He's an outstanding defender.

Speaker 11 He showed some of that in that Phoenix series in round one. So I would expect Jaden McDaniels to be on Jamal Murray.
No Nas Reid either last year.

Speaker 11 I'm not trying to create an argument for why Minnesota is going going to win. I'm creating an argument for why I think this is going to be high-level, intense six or seven-game series.

Speaker 11 Both these teams are outstanding.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm very excited for that series.

Speaker 1 Another question I had, we saw the Suns get bounced in a sweep to the Wolves. Are we done with the super teams? Because if you look around, like it does feel you have the Nuggets homegrown.

Speaker 1 You have the Celtics homegrown. You have even, you know, the Knicks have done a really good job with their roster.
The Wolves, homegrown. The Thunder, homegrown.

Speaker 1 A lot of these teams now that are ascending feel like

Speaker 1 they've gotten the pieces the long-term way instead of saying, oh,

Speaker 1 here's a star. Let's add him to the roster and throw away all of our role players.
Do we think this is finally like the Suns were ⁇ I saw your whole clip about a failed experiment.

Speaker 1 They're long-term invested in these guys, but I don't know how they don't have a lot of flexibility in changing that roster.

Speaker 11 Correct.

Speaker 11 I said at the beginning of the year in one of our season preview podcasts, like this year could be, and whether it's like

Speaker 11 stamped, meaning it's final, but it could be at least the beginning of the death of the super team.

Speaker 11 Part of that is the new second apron in the CBA. And just sort of a brief explainer of that.

Speaker 11 We have a salary cap. You can go to a certain point over the salary cap.
You pay luxury tax. There's a first first apron and then a second apron.

Speaker 11 Once you get to that second apron, you're essentially hard capped, which means you're really limited in what you can do in terms of transactions. So you have no exceptions.

Speaker 11 You basically have to sign players for minimum contracts and sign your own draft picks. And obviously, outside of this year, the Suns don't have any draft picks from 2025 to 2030.

Speaker 11 All of those are either traded away or

Speaker 11 they're swapped, meaning they can't trade them because teams can swap. Let's say 2027, you can swap with them, right?

Speaker 11 So

Speaker 11 they're extremely limited by that second apron.

Speaker 11 And it's because of them

Speaker 11 going all in on Kevin Durant, them going all in on Bradley Beal. Bradley Beale has a no trade clause.

Speaker 11 So yeah, in some ways,

Speaker 11 the proof, at least to me, over the last few years, It goes back to the depth of talent, but the proof to me is you need to build through the draft. Yeah.

Speaker 11 And and then be positioned with a good salary cap situation, with good young players, with draft picks to then make an impactful trade. Denver did that.
They drafted Jamal Murray. They drafted Jokic.

Speaker 11 They drafted Michael Porter Jr. They've drafted Peyton Watson.
They've drafted Christian Brown. They used players they drafted to go out and get ACP, Aaron Gordon.
Those are the timely trades.

Speaker 11 And all of a sudden, now all the pieces fit and they've got one of the best, if not the best, starting five in the NBA.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 11 Boston, right? Brown drafted. Tatum drafted.
Marcus Smart drafted. Turned him into Porzingis.

Speaker 11 Rob Williams drafted.

Speaker 11 They stole Malcolm Brognon from Indiana two years ago. They used Malcolm Broden and Rob Williams to go get Drew Holiday.
So you have to draft well. That's my point.

Speaker 11 Like, if you want to build a team now, you have to draft well.

Speaker 11 But this is why I say... It's not necessarily the death of the super team because certain owners are always going to operate a certain way.

Speaker 11 and certain owners are always going to think they can shortcut it and buy their way to a championship.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, that's what I would think.

Speaker 4 Like, we were talking about that on Monday's show. If we were owners, that's how we would operate right when we got a team.
We'd just be like, Yeah, let's get out of here.

Speaker 1 KD, yeah, let's go build a 2K team.

Speaker 11 Let's go build a 2K team.

Speaker 1 It's exciting for the NBA that it does feel like we're getting away from that, where there aren't the shortcuts, and the teams that put in the draft and make the savvy moves and trades are being rewarded.

Speaker 1 Like, that's good for the league, in my opinion.

Speaker 11 I agree. And I think it helps the overall product, which the product should be the game.
The product should not be transactions. Yes.

Speaker 11 And look, people are going to live in that world forever. It's what gets people excited on social media.
The idea of getting this person in free agency, the idea of getting this person in a trade.

Speaker 11 I get it. It's exciting.
And everybody plays 2K. And everybody likes to build out their rosters and get their packs and get their cards and then decide which player they're getting rid of.

Speaker 11 Like we all want to be a GM in some ways, right? I get it.

Speaker 11 However, because of more parody, I thought between parody, the depth of talent, the rule changes around minimum games played where you had so many guys.

Speaker 11 I mean, LeBron and AD played the most games together they played

Speaker 11 in their Lakers tenure. Kawhi played more games

Speaker 11 since I think 2016 or 2017. So these things have created a better regular season.

Speaker 11 And if anyone anyone was paying attention to that, instead of just using the same old talking points about how load manage, load management does not really exist anymore.

Speaker 11 You can't rest two stars in a nationally televised game. Like the league implemented enough policies.
Those policies worked. The in-season tournament was an overall success.

Speaker 11 The play-in has been a massive success. There's more.
To me, the product right now is better than it's ever been in my time in the NBA going back to 2006.

Speaker 4 Yeah, and that's, I'm glad that you brought that up. Let's not completely trash the Lakers this year.
They won the in-season tournament. Yeah.
That's huge. That's huge.
Their mayor. The mayor of L.A.

Speaker 4 congratulated them. It's not a lost season.

Speaker 4 They had a lot of success. They won one out of two tournaments this year.

Speaker 1 Also,

Speaker 1 I think Greene put up a banner that the Lakers would have maybe beaten the Thunder or Timberwolves if they had matched up against them in the first round.

Speaker 4 They would have matched up well against London. Yeah, they would have matched up.

Speaker 1 So that's huge.

Speaker 9 Yeah, it's a good season.

Speaker 4 That's winning basketball in L.A. And I'm glad to see it.
So how would you fix Phoenix? Because

Speaker 1 it seems like they they don't really have can i ask you those bands fly forever i feel like you're laughing at those

Speaker 11 this is a serious question i want to ask you this question

Speaker 11 why do you think and i don't know how much you guys actually you guys joke around and it's sometimes a bit so i i'll take you off the table but why do you think that people

Speaker 11 like to talk about hypotheticals so much and why do people like to listen to people talking about hypotheticals so much.

Speaker 4 Because it's fanfic for dudes. It's like, this is gossip magazines for guys.
This is how we use our imagination. Guys, once you start...
That's a great point.

Speaker 4 Once you stop reading books in high school or college or wherever, where you give up like reading the fantasy books that you used to when you were a kid, this is what you spend your mental energy on.

Speaker 4 You just imagine, like,

Speaker 4 what if LeBron went to the Celtics? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Could they win? You could never be. Yeah, you could never be wrong in a hypothetical world, too.
So you can just be, you know, we could debate it forever.

Speaker 1 I think specifically for the Lakers hypotheticals that have been happening, I think that's just, and you know know this, being on first take from time to time, like

Speaker 1 talking about the Lakers and LeBron is what people will tune into. So when they're down 3-0, you can't be like, oh, the Lakers are cooked.

Speaker 1 You have to instead do 20 minutes saying, the Lakers would have beaten everyone else. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You can't let go of that cash now. Actually, you know what? It's crazy to say.

Speaker 4 Maybe, JJ, maybe you bring this up next time you're on. If the Dallas Cowboys signed LeBron at tight end, would they be able to compete for a Super Bowl? Combine all their favorite things together.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 that's good yeah yeah that's good i say no

Speaker 4 no i think you probably have to add aaron judge maybe as a tight end yeah aaron judge tight end lebron wide receiver just get everybody yeah who would be a better wide receiver lebron or michael jordan

Speaker 1 good question

Speaker 11 who's who's more entertaining patrick mahomes or steph curry

Speaker 4 patrick mahomes now

Speaker 1 patrick mahomes i mean he was he was on uh monday night raw Yeah, he gave his rings to Curry Lowkey.

Speaker 11 Would you guys listen to someone talking for 20 minutes about Anthony Edwards' hypotheticals?

Speaker 1 Yes,

Speaker 11 I find him pretty fascinating.

Speaker 1 Okay, I actually wanted to ask about him because he is

Speaker 1 such a killer, and I love that.

Speaker 1 Like, that's what sports, I know there's a million things, reasons to watch sports, but at the top of my list is watching a guy elevate his game in big moments and have that shit to him where he's like, not only is going to kill you, but he's going to do the suck it.

Speaker 1 He's going to talk his shit.

Speaker 1 Are you, like, just watching Anthony Edwards, are you watching it being like, this guy is going to own the league for years to come? Like, he has that it factor, both on and off court.

Speaker 11 Ultimately, the face of the league and

Speaker 11 whoever kind of is the guy, right?

Speaker 11 You have to win at a high level to do that. So that remains to be seen.
However,

Speaker 11 he's certainly going to be in that conversation for the next 10 years.

Speaker 11 He is entertaining as a a player. He's got like the game that I think people gravitate to the same way that Jordan had a certain game, Kobe had a certain game, AI had a certain game, Steph, right?

Speaker 11 There's the flash, the fundamentals. I mean, some of the footwork stuff that he does is so underrated.

Speaker 11 And then he's got, as you said, the shit to him, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah. He's, he's...

Speaker 11 brash. He's competitive.

Speaker 11 I find it fascinating, by the way, because I remember this, and I want to say was i was finishing up my career um but when he was coming out of georgia the question marks around him were like does he love basketball and is is he competitive right and you watch that guy play in the playoffs and you're like how was that ever a concern yeah right i i just i don't know i it's he's he's remarkable i he Katie said this the other day after the after game four.

Speaker 11 He's like, that guy's my favorite player to watch in the league. And, you know, I've had a number of players, even in retirement, where I'm like, I want to watch this guy.
I want to watch this guy.

Speaker 11 And now, like, Anthony Edwards has moved into sort of that tier one of just like, if he's on, I'm watching the T-Wolves.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm like, I was kind of bummed that they swept the Suns because it's like, oh, we just got robbed of a couple of Anthony Edwards games. Like, I want to, I like, you know,

Speaker 1 off nights, it's every other night. I'm like, oh, where's my Anthony Edwards game tonight? I want to watch him dunk on people and talk shit.
And Katie laughing.

Speaker 4 Katie was just, he couldn't do anything except just laugh when Anthony was on. He knows.
He's like, yeah,

Speaker 4 this guy's awesome. I like

Speaker 4 watching him play right up close, right next to him.

Speaker 1 And it's perfect timing, too, because I know that you don't love these debates, but it does feel like these playoffs are a little bit of a passing of the torch playoffs where you don't have KD, Steph, or LeBron in the second round, and you have some of these young, whether it be Anthony Edwards or Jalen Brunson, what he's doing with the Knicks, like some of these younger guys ascending.

Speaker 1 It's just always fun when that happens at the same time, and you're like, this is great because these are the guys we're going to be watching for the next decade.

Speaker 11 We're working on a project right now.

Speaker 11 I think it got announced.

Speaker 11 It's like the drive-your-survive of the NBA playoffs.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. And

Speaker 11 we're like co-producing it. And, you know, I remember going back, Jason Gallagher, who I think you guys know, who's been around, you know, our head of production.

Speaker 11 We're working on it on the 3-4-2 side. And

Speaker 11 going back to our conversations

Speaker 11 all the way back in October when the season started, that was the whole thesis for us going into this season.

Speaker 11 Is,

Speaker 11 you know, I said, this Phoenix Suns thing, that's going to be interesting to watch. Roster, do the pieces fit? Do they have enough depth? Is there redundancy with their best players?

Speaker 11 Like, it's going to be interesting to watch, right? How much does LeBron have left in the tank? Right.

Speaker 11 Golden State, are they going to be good? I don't know. Feels like Minnesota is going to be pretty good this year.
Feels like Oklahoma City is probably going to make a jump.

Speaker 11 There could be a passing of the torch. Now, I had no idea that Jalen Brunson was going to put together an MVP type season.

Speaker 11 And certainly if Jokic wins another one, then some of this conversation is moot. And it's just like, no, Jokic is the guy.
He's the guy. Right.

Speaker 11 But yeah, this is interesting because Kevin's out. LeBron's out.
Steph's out. And those guys have,

Speaker 11 I don't want to say carried the league, but they've certainly been as integral as anyone

Speaker 11 for the last, you know, 10 to 15 years. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah. It's interesting you brought up the Jokic MVP thing.
It's important to have this debate. Do you think that if Jokic won his third MVP, he would be the worst three-time MVP winner of all time?

Speaker 11 Jokic, to me,

Speaker 11 is already a top 15 player of all time. And I know that that's maybe a hot take.
I don't really care.

Speaker 1 You took Kevin Duran out?

Speaker 1 What's up? You took Kevin Duran out of the top 15?

Speaker 11 No.

Speaker 1 Oh. No, I didn't.

Speaker 4 You got to take someone out. Who was number 15?

Speaker 11 Kevin wasn't close to 15.

Speaker 1 Okay, you got to wail and admit.

Speaker 11 I only do 12. I usually only do 12.
That's why I use the 15 because that gives me wiggle room. Then I don't have to take anybody out.

Speaker 1 I can read you. You know what I mean?

Speaker 11 I've only ever done a definitive 12 who I think is the 12.

Speaker 4 The other three three-time MVPs are Moses Malone, Larry Larry Bird, Magic Johnson. So this would, would that make Jokic the worst three-time MVP winner?

Speaker 11 I don't feel that way.

Speaker 1 So who would you take out?

Speaker 11 I don't feel that way.

Speaker 4 Moses?

Speaker 11 I say this all the time. You know, you guys love to bait me into these things when you compare eras.

Speaker 4 Legit question.

Speaker 11 No, you do. And it's fine.
But I'll say this.

Speaker 11 The best players in any era would be fine in any other era,

Speaker 11 save for maybe one era. And

Speaker 11 the

Speaker 11 players that killed in their era, they should be celebrated and they should be recognized as all-time greats. So why would we not recognize Nikola Jokic as an all-time great?

Speaker 1 Yeah, but see, what you're doing is...

Speaker 11 Why are we changing it for modern players?

Speaker 1 I think what you're doing is you're adding Jokic to the top 12 of all time. And if we looked at

Speaker 1 15, top 15, if we looked at it, I think you're probably top 15 is more like 25. And you're just, someone's got to keep you honest.

Speaker 11 Someone's got to keep me.

Speaker 1 It's us. That's our job.
We got to keep you honest.

Speaker 4 J.J. Reddick, top 12 tracker, just to make sure that you're not fudging the numbers.

Speaker 1 I'm taking Will Chamberlain out. He's gone.
Jokic is in. See how easy that was?

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 4 You think he actually dropped 100 points?

Speaker 11 Do I think Wilt Chamberlain did? Yeah.

Speaker 11 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 11 Unless I've been given reason not to believe. I mean, he had the picture with the sheet of paper, right? So you have to believe it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's as good as gold. Yeah.
Can't lie about that. Yeah.

Speaker 4 You should just respond with, like, if somebody does ask you that question about Jokic, just say, he's on my Mount Rushmore of three-time MVP winners.

Speaker 1 Ooh, there we go. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Because there's only four guys there.

Speaker 1 You're good.

Speaker 4 So back to the Suns real quick. How would you fix the Suns? Because that to me seems like a riddle that's very hard to figure out.

Speaker 4 Like you mentioned Bradley Beal's contract.

Speaker 11 Am I interviewing for jobs right now? What is going on?

Speaker 4 No, I'm curious because like the Suns, it seems like they've dealt their way into a black hole where it's like, I don't know how they get out of this over the next five years, but there's got to be some way out, right?

Speaker 4 If you're being creative, how would you fix the Suns?

Speaker 11 Win shares per 48, which is

Speaker 11 the stat that is most closely associated with whoever wins the MVP, all time in the NBA. Number two is Michael Jordan.
All right, that tracks.

Speaker 11 Number one is Nikola Jokic. I just want to throw that out there.
I know you guys don't like advanced stats, but oftentimes they just reinforce what the eye shows us. I love them.

Speaker 1 Here's an advanced stat. Michael Jordan was 6-0 in the finals.
I love him.

Speaker 1 Keep going with your point.

Speaker 11 How many times did he get to the finals? Six? Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 11 So,

Speaker 11 Phoenix,

Speaker 11 you know, it's interesting. It's a very interesting question.

Speaker 11 I would look at sort of team building in a very holistic way beyond just, oh, we got to trade this guy or trade that guy, or

Speaker 11 we got to revamp the coaching style.

Speaker 11 I wasn't in that locker room, so I don't know. I would say in general,

Speaker 11 the exit interviews are oftentimes very revealing. And you have to look at any roster, any team, and look at how personalities mesh together and how skill sets mesh together.
And

Speaker 11 it's not easy because all 29 teams are also competing for something and also want to win a trade or win a transaction. That's the difficulty of being in the front office.

Speaker 11 But if you can find the right formula, and it might take three months, it may take six months. It may take three years.

Speaker 11 But you have to be willing, I think, to, as an owner, you have to be willing to be patient with that.

Speaker 11 And look,

Speaker 11 that's not a shot at Ishby at all.

Speaker 11 I think we've seen a number of new owners come in and make moves right away and want to win. And that's not really how the NBA works.
And they learn and they get better and they become great owners.

Speaker 11 One of the best examples I have of an owner who didn't do that was Steve Ballmer. Steve Ballmer took over in 2014 after the Donald

Speaker 11 Sterling

Speaker 11 saga and

Speaker 11 he was like 15 and 16. I remember he, he would meet with us.
We would have dinner with him. He would ask us questions.
He made no big decisions other than I think in 16, we had new uniforms.

Speaker 11 But in terms of like our roster, nothing big, coaching, nothing big. Then in 17, Lawrence Frank went from our coaching staff up to the front office.

Speaker 11 Lawrence Frank spent like a year going around literally the world and going to different teams and saying, all right, man, United, how do you operate? All right, Seattle Seahawks, how do you operate?

Speaker 11 And he figured out how to build out a proper infrastructure in the front office. If you remember, we really didn't have a front office under Donald Sterling, right? It wasn't until Balmer got there.

Speaker 11 He took his time.

Speaker 11 He didn't make any crazy transactions. He took his time.

Speaker 11 And, you know, obviously Kawhi's injury probably keeps them from a championship,

Speaker 11 but... I think they've done it the right way.

Speaker 4 So it's interesting with the exit interviews. You've been through a few of them, I would imagine.
How does that that go? Who conducts them? What questions are asked? And how honest are guys?

Speaker 11 I mean, I was always

Speaker 11 honest, especially

Speaker 11 later on in my career. Every team is different.

Speaker 11 There were some teams where you would have three different ones. You might have one with the owner.
You might have one with the front office. You might have one with the coaching staff.

Speaker 11 Other ones, you'd just have one. You'd have one with

Speaker 11 the front office and the coaching staff.

Speaker 11 I think in Dallas, I actually had all three together. It was Cuban, Donnie Nelson, and Rick Carlisle.
And they were just like, hey, you didn't play. Trade didn't work out.
Probably going to retire.

Speaker 11 Feel free to just let loose.

Speaker 11 Tell us what you think.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 That's got to be nice to just unload and be like, I've been thinking about this for a while. I would just

Speaker 4 get out your, get out a pen and paper because I'm going to go off for a while.

Speaker 1 I would just pit everyone against each other. I'd be like, I just finished up with KD.
Like, I'd meet with Bradley Beal.

Speaker 1 I'd be like, I just finished up with KD, and he said it was all your fault, Bradley. What do you think?

Speaker 9 Like an interrogation.

Speaker 11 You know what's funny is not necessarily teammates, but

Speaker 11 there's been some people that work for organizations that I've played for that did exactly that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 They're all trying to save their own job.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they're all trying to save their own job. Who was that person? Can you name their name?

Speaker 11 Guys, we've gone over time.

Speaker 4 Is there a stop snitching thing? Like you don't talk about another teammate when you're in those interviews?

Speaker 11 I never felt like you, I don't think, I don't think guys snitched on their teammates.

Speaker 11 I don't think it was like that.

Speaker 11 I think it was more when certain guys would be like up for free agency or like, you know, like even in 17, I had a terrible first round and I knew like no one had to go in.

Speaker 11 None of my teammates had to go into the front office or to Lawrence Frank or Doc Rivers and be like, hey, we really have to bring JJ back. How's that gone for us?

Speaker 11 No, they'd be like,

Speaker 11 it's probably pretty much said. I was turning 33 and we'd gone on a four-year run and didn't get the result we wanted.

Speaker 11 I figured it was likely I was going to be out of there and they weren't going to offer me a contract.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 What's harder? The exit interview with your front office and coach or the exit interview that players do with Shams?

Speaker 11 I've never talked to Shams. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So I don't know. A lot of players do.
And those articles are ready to go the minute a team gets bounced.

Speaker 4 What about when Darvin Hamm goes into LeBron's office and LeBron starts conducting the exit interview?

Speaker 4 What What do you think he's going to say to LeBron?

Speaker 1 LeBron's corner office. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You guys are ridiculous. All right, I got some basketball questions.
Thunder, unbelievable story.

Speaker 1 How the NBA usually works is teams have to climb the mountain. They have to have, you know, playoff, get close, get close, then jump over the hurdle, the last hurdle.

Speaker 1 The Nuggets are the perfect example of this last few years.

Speaker 1 The Thunder have been called too young, but if the Thunder can win it all, I guess that's the first question. Can they win it all? And if they do, what happened?

Speaker 1 Like, do you see this team being able to actually kind of buck all the trends and be like, yeah, this is their first real playoff experience? And they went all the way.

Speaker 11 I could see a scenario where they are in the NBA Finals and could win a championship. Yeah, I could see that scenario.

Speaker 11 What would have to happen?

Speaker 11 First of all, health.

Speaker 11 Second of all,

Speaker 11 I think you have to have in certain matchups a series where Chet Holmgren shoots the shit out out of the ball and forces the defense into making some tough decisions. Uh, i.e., are you switching

Speaker 11 a five-man onto Shea? Are you switching a five-man onto Jalen Williams and not

Speaker 11 playing off of Chet Holmgren? He kind of unlocks their spacing, right? All those drives, when he's on the court, it matters.

Speaker 11 So him, him shooting the ball well, um, he's been one of the best defenders in the NBA this year. Uh, Lou Dort, uh, we saw in the first round, just in Brandon Ingram shit for four games.

Speaker 11 So he's staying out of foul trouble, defending at a high level.

Speaker 11 Jalen and Shea have to be, they have to be who they are. They have to be stars.
I don't think enough people realize how good Jalen Williams is.

Speaker 11 Like Oklahoma City, whatever you think of Chet as a second year guy, rookie, whatever, Jalen Williams is a star in the NBA.

Speaker 11 You know, he's not a superstar, but he is a a star, and he is a true number two. He's fucking phenomenal.

Speaker 11 And then they have to shoot.

Speaker 11 They were one of the best three-point shooting teams, not necessarily at high volume, but one of the best three-point shooting teams all season long, and they have to shoot it well.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And you forgot Dortcher Chamber, Lou Dort.

Speaker 11 I love watching Dort. I said Lou Dort.

Speaker 1 I said Lou Dort. Lou Dort is

Speaker 11 shit in all four games in that series.

Speaker 1 He's the best because having one of those guys is so important where it's like, we're just going to put him on your best player and just make life, yeah, your best player still might score, but he's going to make it hard for him every single night.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I would also say.

Speaker 1 How about Giddy?

Speaker 11 How about Giddy when they created separation there in game four? Giddy makes three straight threes in like three minutes. Like, there's another thing that has to happen.

Speaker 11 Like, he's got to be, he's, teams are playing off of him. He's got to be willing to shoot threes.
And

Speaker 11 if he goes through a series and makes 35%, all right.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 he's got a shot to win.

Speaker 4 Much like the Mahomes and Travis Kelsey state farm commercials, you kind of know that

Speaker 4 they're going to be in the Super Bowl probably.

Speaker 4 Same thing with Oklahoma City and the What a Pro Wants, What a Pro Needs commercial, where everybody's absolutely in love with that thing, and you know they're going to want to keep them around for as long as possible.

Speaker 11 I know you're being facetious.

Speaker 1 You like that stuff?

Speaker 11 I'm well aware of the discourse on Twitter right now.

Speaker 1 What a pro needs. It's so good.
Whatever makes you happy.

Speaker 4 We've neglected the East a little bit. We talked a little bit about the Knicks.

Speaker 4 They're playing against the Sixers tonight. So when this episode comes out, that will be old news.
What's your official prediction?

Speaker 1 Don't look at your watch. We got you for another 35 minutes.
Easy.

Speaker 11 No,

Speaker 11 somebody from ESPN is texting me my schedule for this week.

Speaker 1 Oh, they're like trying to figure out. They're like, you're talking about my take.
There's a sniper outside your house.

Speaker 11 What game I'm going to have Friday? Yeah. Sorry, guys.
What game?

Speaker 1 Do you want to announce it right now? What game are you going to have Friday?

Speaker 11 I'll have game six in Dallas. Oh,

Speaker 1 okay. So you have to do that.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 the East.

Speaker 4 Sixers, Knicks. Quick prediction.
You'll look very smart if you get this right.

Speaker 11 For this series or for tonight? For tonight. I don't do one-game predictions.
Fuck one-game predictions.

Speaker 1 All right, so let's predict the series.

Speaker 11 I think the Knicks are going to win the series. Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay, so

Speaker 4 do the Knicks pose a threat to the presumptive Eastern Conference finalists, Boston Celtics?

Speaker 11 They do.

Speaker 11 They do. A lot has to go right,

Speaker 11 but

Speaker 11 it's hard for me to dismiss

Speaker 11 what exactly this Knicks team is.

Speaker 11 Because,

Speaker 11 you know,

Speaker 11 we have talked for years now about this like heat culture thing.

Speaker 11 Like you have to, you have to kill the heat. The heat are not going to like give in.
They're going to fight to the death. Right.
And I think this Knicks team is similar.

Speaker 11 They pursue offensive rebounds like better than any team I've seen in recent memory. If you guys remember, like eight to 10 years ago, teams refused to send people to the offensive glass.

Speaker 11 Like the offensive rebounding rates plummeted. Everybody was so worried about transition defense.

Speaker 11 And this Knicks team is just phenomenal on the offensive glass. They've got a true leader, and I'll say it, a true 1A.

Speaker 1 Ooh, I like it.

Speaker 11 A true 1A. I agree.
Jalen Brunson. A true 1A in Jalen Brunson.

Speaker 11 Yeah, they pose a threat. They pose a threat.
I said this when they made the trade for OG

Speaker 11 initially, you know, I was like, all right, they won that trade. And it's not to say Toronto didn't win that trade for them either with getting RJ and

Speaker 11 Emmanuel quickly.

Speaker 11 The Knicks became a better team because it was a better fit, right? OG is a better fit. What else did that trade do? It allowed Miles McBride to move into the starting lineup.

Speaker 11 So the loss of quickly, which I thought could potentially be an issue, Miles McBride, you know, last month and a half of the season, 15 points a game, 43% from three. Like, he filled that role.

Speaker 11 OG with that lineup, he makes them better.

Speaker 11 So by the end of January, I said, look, I think this is probably, depending on seeding and how playoff matchups shake out, this is probably a conference finalist team.

Speaker 11 I would expect them to be in the ⁇ I've said that many times this season. that that is a real possibility.

Speaker 11 So I'm not surprised that they're in a position where they got to win one more game and then one more round and they're there.

Speaker 1 As a future coach, let me throw out an idea for you that I've been working on. Joel Embiid always runs out of gas.

Speaker 1 Has any team ever thought about in the third quarter, because you know you've got to sit him at some point because you can always run out of gas.

Speaker 1 Sit him for like seven minutes, take nothing but shot clock violations, and then do nothing but follow the other team at the end of their shot clock and just hope that the lead doesn't get too big.

Speaker 1 You put in all your bench guys,

Speaker 1 you just pass the ball around, and then

Speaker 11 And then you wake up.

Speaker 1 You're just burning time. You're literally like running out of time.

Speaker 11 You're burning real time. Yes.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 11 You're burning because the fouls, the pause,

Speaker 11 taking all 24 seconds. So a seven-minute break could potentially turn into like a 35 or 40 minute break in real time.

Speaker 1 Correct. He basically can go take a shower.
He can go through warm-ups again. Have a meal, maybe.
Yeah, just be like, oh, no, the fourth quarter is now the first quarter. Have you thought about that?

Speaker 11 I haven't thought about that. It's an interesting strategy.

Speaker 11 If I get one more

Speaker 11 Knicks game in this series, I will ask Nick Nurse about that.

Speaker 11 I'll pose that question to him in the pregame coaches meeting.

Speaker 1 I like that. Put that on your PowerPoint for your next coach's interview.
Like, here's a strategy.

Speaker 4 You could use all your deadball fouls, one right after the other, and then have substitutions at every single foul. Yeah.
And so you can get at least 12 minutes to go. Have them walk real slow.

Speaker 1 Maybe get like a big

Speaker 1 Samoan guy and have him walk real slow onto the court. Utah sometimes does that with their defensive subs in football.
Do that.

Speaker 1 These are all all good ideas. All right.
You're just

Speaker 1 talking about it.

Speaker 1 I got two more questions.

Speaker 1 You're mad. You're mad.

Speaker 4 You're getting out thought on part of my take right now. Mr.

Speaker 1 X's and O's never thought outside the game. Okay, I have a couple last questions.
I know you got to go in a second.

Speaker 1 You are with DraftKings. We're with DraftKings.
One series we haven't talked about, Mavs Clips, which is going to be game five on Wednesday night. Awesome game.
Can you give us a pick?

Speaker 1 And maybe we'll add one and then

Speaker 1 we'll tell the people this is what we like. What do you think?

Speaker 1 It could be a prop. It could be a spread, whatever.

Speaker 1 Give us what you think is going to happen in this game.

Speaker 11 I'm not great at one game things. Actually, I did this yesterday for our YouTube video series, Islands in the League.

Speaker 11 DraftKings presents that. It's like a 30-minute show.
And the end of the show is we always touch on two or three

Speaker 11 sort of lines or whatever. And based on the odds of this series, Vegas is basically, it's a pick'em series, right? I think it's like plus 185, plus 190.

Speaker 11 So not a whole lot of advantage to picking either team in a 2-2 series.

Speaker 11 Here's what I think. Luca is going to have a big game five.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 11 That's what I think. So whatever you want to do with that, I think Luca is going to have a big game five.
Okay.

Speaker 1 I think we maybe go Luca and playoff P.

Speaker 4 Luca playoff P.

Speaker 4 I had Kyrie over four and a half assists. That would play into the Luca factor.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Luca, playoff P and Kyrie.

Speaker 1 That sounds good.

Speaker 4 Sounds really good to me.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that sounds really good.

Speaker 4 You like that, JJ?

Speaker 1 You like that? Also, James Harden off two days of rest.

Speaker 4 That's true.

Speaker 1 That's big for him.

Speaker 4 When was the last time you played basketball? Do you still shoot?

Speaker 11 Not really.

Speaker 1 You got to come to our office. Bro,

Speaker 11 I don't get Bulls games because they're so mediocre.

Speaker 1 I know. They're the definition of mediocre.

Speaker 11 But yeah.

Speaker 11 I do. I've been promising my oldest son that we'll do a late summer, early fall trip to Chicago.
Yes.

Speaker 11 If that happens, we will come through he will obviously love to to get in the gym i played we did a random uh sunday morning pickup uh with uh my travel team and parents and we just kind of mixed in four groups you played to five and then the next group would come on and that was like in october that was the last time i played but i i mean i was playing against nine-year-olds so like yeah i wasn't really playing and then i woke up the next day and i felt like i strained my calf and i'm so fearful because of my achilles injury my last year that i'm going to tear my Achilles.

Speaker 11 So I probably won't, probably won't play again, to be honest with you.

Speaker 1 I like how you said my travel team. I thought it was like the team you travel with, not your actual like nine-year-old travel team.

Speaker 11 You know what is crushing to me?

Speaker 11 I had to stop coaching them after our last,

Speaker 11 they just had one this past weekend that I wasn't at. So once the playoffs started, I went to our Monday practice and I just said, guys, I'm sorry.
Like I'm going to miss every weekend.

Speaker 11 I can't coach you anymore.

Speaker 11 It's impossible.

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Speaker 1 Do you think you're in good enough standings with Duke that your sons, no matter how they turn out as basketball players, will at least get the spot as 15th man?

Speaker 1 Because that would be like a walk-on. Yeah, right.
I think you are.

Speaker 11 I think so. Yeah.
I think so.

Speaker 1 I mean, that would rule. Like, I don't know.

Speaker 11 They're actually, they're going to Duke camp this summer.

Speaker 1 Oh, great. That sounds like fun.
That sounds awesome.

Speaker 11 First look. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm sure they're going to learn so much. They're going to learn about the Brotherhood.
That's going to be great. Seems like a lot of guys are leaving the Brotherhood.

Speaker 4 Here's how you take a charge properly. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 4 Here's 30 minutes on slapping the floor. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Here's how if you lose the game, you can tell everyone that it's just a game and it doesn't really matter.

Speaker 1 But if you win the game, you go into the other coach's locker room and you try to coach the other team. These are all things you're going to learn.

Speaker 11 No,

Speaker 11 you're anti-Coach K bit.

Speaker 11 I've witnessed it and seen it for years.

Speaker 1 I got to see God. I'm starting to get Pete Godette.

Speaker 4 When the last time you talked to Pete, when was the last time I talked to Pete?

Speaker 11 Yeah, God. Pete God.

Speaker 1 Justice.

Speaker 11 I don't know.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Maybe you should reach out and just ask how he's doing.

Speaker 4 It's sad because he had to absorb all those losses, and then he doesn't even get the Brotherhood reaching out to him to check in and see how he's doing.

Speaker 4 He's probably sad all the time with all those losses.

Speaker 1 Brothers got to check on Brothers. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Pete, if you're listening, he's an AWL, longtime Stoolie. Pete probably cares about.

Speaker 1 He's probably like, you guys have have my back. We care about people in media.

Speaker 4 This is a real brotherhood. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Was this fun for you?

Speaker 1 JJ, you are the best. We do like you, JJ.
Yeah, we love having you on.

Speaker 1 Even when you had that weird rant where you made fun of fans and you're like, fans

Speaker 1 don't want to learn, I even prefaced my tweet defending you, not really defending you, saying I like JJ a lot.

Speaker 11 So you know what's funny?

Speaker 11 I asked a question. That's all I did.
I didn't make fun of anyone. I asked a question.

Speaker 1 No, you called us dumb.

Speaker 4 You had a conversation with fans.

Speaker 11 I said, do fans even want to be educated? It's a valid question.

Speaker 1 Sometimes. Some people don't.

Speaker 11 And that's fine.

Speaker 11 There was no judgment. There was no judgment.
I was more upset because Stephen A. said that Kevin Durant has done a bad job of educating fans as if that's his job, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's not his job.

Speaker 11 I thought it was Kevin Durant's job to go play basketball and

Speaker 11 be all NBA and try to win a championship. That seems like his job.
Yeah, but

Speaker 4 getting paid to do. To your point, a lot of times we don't want to learn.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 4 A lot of times we just want to be mad.

Speaker 1 We just want to talk about the Lakers if they would have beaten the Thunderbolts.

Speaker 4 Yeah, like when Duke beat JMU this year, I didn't want to learn about why Duke's offense worked.

Speaker 4 I was just like, fuck Duke, these pieces are shit.

Speaker 11 There are some times when I watch a game that I have to make a choice. Am I watching this game through a critical lens and actually paying attention?

Speaker 11 Or is it I'm just fucking watching it as like a fan and just chilling and it's entertainment and I'll like tune in for three minutes and then kind of zone out and then tune in for three minutes.

Speaker 11 And then it's like, all right, it's the last eight minutes. All right, I'm going to lock in.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 11 It's an escape. Yeah.
I like just having basketball on. There's nothing wrong with that.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yep.
All his life. All right.
Well, JJ, everyone go check out his podcast and you'll hear him calling games. Do tell Nick Nurse about my strategy.
I think it would work.

Speaker 1 And best of luck for your future interviews for head coaching jobs. Thanks, guys.
Thanks, JJ.

Speaker 11 Thank you for having me on.

Speaker 1 Appreciate the conversation.

Speaker 11 Thank you for having me on. Yes, yes.

Speaker 11 Thank you for none of the fucking digs.

Speaker 1 All right. Thanks, JJ.
All right, guys. We'll see you, man.

Speaker 12 The Pro Football Football Show is presented by the Chevy Silverado. Built for the hustle, ready for the game.
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Speaker 1 Okay, let's wrap up the show with FAQs. Henry?

Speaker 1 Yes. FAQs? Hey, fellas.
Hey. Hey.

Speaker 6 Long time AWL, and this is something I've always been curious about. Every time Big Cat introduces a guest, he says, we have a very, very, very special guest.

Speaker 1 Not every time.

Speaker 6 He uses a different amount of varies for different guests, usually ranging from one to four varies. Correct.
What is the criteria behind getting more varies versus less?

Speaker 6 Do you make it up ahead of time or does he come up with it on the fly?

Speaker 4 Not to answer for you, Big Cat, but also there is one, there's a couple times I can remember where Big Cat said we have a special guest. Yeah.
And that's the ultimate.

Speaker 4 So I think Skrelly was like that.

Speaker 1 Also, there's been a time where I said we have a guest. A guest.
That was Aaron Rodgers. Yep.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, I don't make it up ahead of time. It's usually based on vibes.
Usually recurring guests get very, very, very.

Speaker 6 I think in person,

Speaker 6 the hype gets bigger.

Speaker 1 The hype gets bigger. Yeah, it's kind of a way to just, you know, it makes someone feel at ease.
Like, hey, you're very, very, very special.

Speaker 1 Just don't let any of the guests know that I do that for almost all of them.

Speaker 4 I think Jameis Winston got a record amount of varies.

Speaker 1 You know what? I'm going to,

Speaker 1 at some point in the next three months, I'm going to do an interview. I'm going to try to hit like seven varies.

Speaker 1 Just keep going. We're going to get a big dog.
Yeah, we're going to get a big dog.

Speaker 4 The entire interview. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, hold on one sec. Very, very, very.

Speaker 1 We're going to get skip Bayless on this shit.

Speaker 6 Someone randomly asked me that the other day, and I was like. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Hey, where's Mr.
Pear? I thought we were doing a pick.

Speaker 1 Mr. Pear is six and two.
Mr.

Speaker 4 Pear is a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very

Speaker 1 Mr. Pear is having some issues with.

Speaker 1 Actually, we should get two turtles.

Speaker 1 I think he needs a friend. Before we put a rat in there?

Speaker 4 Have them fight like battle bots?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Mr.
Pear, he's going to pick the Clippers and

Speaker 1 the Mavs game because

Speaker 1 we've taken him off the show while he tried to figure it out.

Speaker 1 Since he's six and two I feel like the people are owed a pick especially because this is the biggest game it's a game five but does that mean that he's just he's red hot on the Instagram lives and we're just taking him off okay fine tune into part of my take Instagram for Mr.

Speaker 1 Pear Pick yeah all right fine no mr.

Speaker 4 Pear Pick he has been awesome on those picks yeah I know he's six and two he's hot as fuck

Speaker 6 any more out of the office summer activities planned for the group enjoy the disc golf and dimple head competitions yes uh we have a couple trips planned right now.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Something

Speaker 4 brilliant. Beer Olympics.
We are still, I want to say very clearly,

Speaker 4 as of right now,

Speaker 4 we're very committed to going to be Olympics. We can't back out.
We won't. We can't.
I mean,

Speaker 1 we can't, right?

Speaker 1 We can't.

Speaker 1 We can't back out.

Speaker 4 As of this moment, we can't back out.

Speaker 1 We cannot back out.

Speaker 1 We can't.

Speaker 4 I mean,

Speaker 4 who could turn that down?

Speaker 6 I'm feeling pretty sick already that week before.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. But yeah, we have, besides Grit Week, which obviously we're going to be doing Grit Week in August,

Speaker 1 we have a couple other things planned for some fun activities. And I do want to play Frisbee Golf again.
Although

Speaker 1 we were talking, we want to play Frisbee Golf non-camera, which doesn't really help this listener's question just because we've never done it without cameras. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So it would be fun to just actually play the game.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 we'll bring cameras.

Speaker 4 We're thinking about doing it maybe on the special trip we have planned in July. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And we also

Speaker 1 have another trip in July of

Speaker 1 maybe the pardon my bake. Maybe hang out, do some pool games.

Speaker 6 Do the mushroom golf?

Speaker 1 Maybe the mushroom golf? Yeah. Yeah.
So

Speaker 1 we got some fun stuff. And we are definitely for July 4th week, Tim Woods.

Speaker 1 Right? Yeah. Tim Woods.
By the way, did you guys see Tim Woods' tweet the other day? I got to try to find it. It was so Tim Woods.
I fucking love him so much. Oh, fuck.

Speaker 1 Keep going, Hank. I'll try to find it.
I'll try to track it down. I screenshotted it just to bring it up to you guys.

Speaker 6 Hello, PMT Boys. The topic is Soggy Sorrows.
Is there a reason it has disappeared and can we expect it to make a comeback?

Speaker 4 I think Max might have put it into Soggy Sorrows because he would be just wet all the time.

Speaker 6 Much like the you guys not betting against JMU, I think one of you guys didn't want to do Soggy Sorrows. Not true.

Speaker 1 I absolutely did Soggy Sorrows after the double doink.

Speaker 1 I didn't say it was you. That was the last time I had a big loss.

Speaker 6 There was other ones.

Speaker 4 We've all done Soggy Sorrows.

Speaker 6 Right, but that was my recollection of

Speaker 6 one of you guys were like, I'm not doing Soggy Sorrows. And then after that, I was like, well, if you got, I'm not doing Soggy Sorrows.
All right, fine.

Speaker 1 Here's the deal. We're going to bring back Soggy Sorrows.
It has to be a team that has championship aspirations. If they lose, we'll do Soggy Sorrows.

Speaker 6 But is anyone in the playoffs?

Speaker 1 Well, let's count the teams that have championship aspirations.

Speaker 6 The Caps who do Soggy Sorrows for the Caps.

Speaker 1 No, they didn't have championship aspirations.

Speaker 6 They're in the playoffs. We did not have championships.

Speaker 1 We did not have championship aspirations. So

Speaker 4 a minus 36 goal difference.

Speaker 1 Who has championship aspirations?

Speaker 4 I do not.

Speaker 1 I do not. Celtics.
Oh, okay. And Bruins?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay, so we'll do Soggy Sorrows if those teams lose.

Speaker 4 What about other teams? What about the Islanders?

Speaker 1 What about the Islanders?

Speaker 4 Memes. They're already out.

Speaker 1 We're going four straight in a row.

Speaker 4 Okay. Okay.
What about the 76ers?

Speaker 1 Memes is just like a walking Soggy Sorrow. Dead.
Okay,

Speaker 1 but you have LeBron aspirations i do have lebron aspirations so you should use soggy sorrows if they don't get lebron uh do the bears have championship aspirations yeah i found it i found it i found it i found it uh this woman tweeted uh

Speaker 1 oh someone tweeted we don't talk about it but explicitly asking for consent can ruin a vibe this woman quote tweeted and said this dude's a dumbass have you ever heard a raspy may i in your ear it's divine tim woods replied asking for consent when you already know you have it is literally the best like there's no better thing in life Fucking love Tim Woods.

Speaker 1 I love Tim Woods.

Speaker 4 He's one of a kind.

Speaker 1 He Fox? Definitely. With consent.

Speaker 1 Double consent.

Speaker 1 What was it? Where were we?

Speaker 6 I'll go to the last one.

Speaker 1 Where were we?

Speaker 1 If LeBron doesn't go to Sorrows.

Speaker 6 I'm assuming it was you based off

Speaker 6 how quickly you defended yourself, but you stopped doing Soggy Sorrows and now where you're bringing.

Speaker 1 I did not stop doing Soggy Sorrows. I did Soggy Sorrows.

Speaker 1 Go and find the list of Soggy Sorrows. I did it.

Speaker 4 I've done it. I may have denied Soggy Sorrows at one point.

Speaker 1 I was not the one who denied it. Hank, find me saying I denied it because there's nothing.

Speaker 6 Well, it was behind the scenes. I was like, we're doing Soggy Sorrows?

Speaker 1 Soggy Sorrows has to be a loss that actually, like, it can't be like the Bulls lost a play-in game. Soggy Sorrows has to be like a real soul-crushing loss.
I remember doing it for double-doing.

Speaker 4 Yeah, because you can't water down Soggy Sorrows. Right.

Speaker 1 So it's championship aspirations, which happens to be the Celtics and Bruins. Great.

Speaker 6 Hey, PMT gang, gang, it's Matt from Oregon behind the jeans, who is the hog on the show. Thanks.

Speaker 1 Not me.

Speaker 4 I don't know that we've seen each other's penises.

Speaker 1 Well, I guess

Speaker 4 have I seen anyone's penis?

Speaker 1 Hank's got a decent wrench. PFT's got big balls.

Speaker 1 I have small everything.

Speaker 5 I have meaty clackers.

Speaker 1 Meaty clackers. I mean, what about you guys in the booth? Like, you got the crown is up.
Knowing what we have in here, I think the crown is for the taking.

Speaker 4 Clackers. That's my answer.

Speaker 1 Memes could have a hog. Shane might have a fucking Shane might have a Pug.
She might have an OnlyFans. Dude, Pug.

Speaker 4 I don't got a Pug is dragging a wagon.

Speaker 1 Pug, you got a wagon?

Speaker 7 Pug, you got a wagon?

Speaker 1 No, Pug.

Speaker 1 Might be Hank. Hank might be the big dick on campus.
You might be, yeah.

Speaker 4 Also, that's.

Speaker 4 Jake's been awfully quiet.

Speaker 9 He has.

Speaker 1 Jake, you got a big one?

Speaker 1 Maybe. Oh, okay.
Maybe. Should we measure? No.

Speaker 1 Why not?

Speaker 1 I'll I'll go first.

Speaker 1 Three and a half inches.

Speaker 4 Are we talking soft?

Speaker 1 No, that was hard. Okay.

Speaker 1 All right, I'm the leader in the clubhouse.

Speaker 1 Submit your score.

Speaker 4 Shocking news, local sports podcast not exactly packing baby forms.

Speaker 1 It's like, what do you want me to say, dude?

Speaker 1 Yeah, we're not.

Speaker 1 It is always funny whenever we do like athletic competitions, people are like, you guys suck. Yeah.

Speaker 4 That's why we talk about sports.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 6 I just like the phrase behind the jeans.

Speaker 1 Behind the jeans.

Speaker 4 That's good.

Speaker 1 Maybe we do a document. Maybe we get, all of us get caddies.
They have to fill out a scorecard.

Speaker 1 No illegal stuff. All right.
Good show, boys.

Speaker 1 Pug, three in a row.

Speaker 1 Let's do some numbers. Max, have you ever gotten this?

Speaker 1 Max, have you ever gotten this? Not yet. You haven't gotten this? Not yet.

Speaker 5 PFT, have you ever gotten this?

Speaker 4 You didn't answer your question. I said not yet.
That's not a valid question, big dude's question.

Speaker 1 Have you ever gotten this? Not yet. No, it's a yes or no question.
No. Oh, that's PFT, I haven't gotten it yet.
Yes, good answer, PFT.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Numbers:

Speaker 1 18.

Speaker 1 46. 20.
43. 3.
83.

Speaker 6 Just combining 40 and 6.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 1 21. I'm going to go.
That's good math.

Speaker 1 That isn't math. I'm going to go 73.
73.

Speaker 1 Oh, I love Hank.

Speaker 1 Just combining 40 and 6.

Speaker 1 43. Pug, if you win this one, is 99 bad for the league?

Speaker 4 You might have to take it out.

Speaker 5 It's a hot ball.

Speaker 1 Looks like a 61.

Speaker 1 61.

Speaker 1 Oh, if you just combined 60 and one,

Speaker 1 you would have had it.

Speaker 4 Love you guys.

Speaker 4 I'll be so let away.

Speaker 4 Say after me.

Speaker 4 Thanks so bad that you can save this already. Say after me.

Speaker 4 Take the bed that you can save and so.

Speaker 4 You want

Speaker 4 me

Speaker 4 to take on me.

Speaker 4 I feel that same

Speaker 4 way.

Speaker 4 You all think about how to burn.

Speaker 4 You're shy of it.

Speaker 4 All the coming, many ways. You're shy of it.

Speaker 4 All the coming anyway.

Speaker 4 You're

Speaker 4 gone.

Speaker 4 Shake all the shake

Speaker 4 take

Speaker 4 on me,

Speaker 4 is you