Bobby Hurley, Final Four From Houston, Women’s National Title And Who’s Back Of The Week

Hey, Pardon My Take listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music.
On today's Pardon My Take, we have two-time national champion, head coach of the Arizona State Sun Devils, Bobby Hurley, also brother to Dan Hurley, who's in the championship game game Monday night we're going to recap Houston the final four our weekend we went to the game the first game that is uh talk a little women's championship game LSU versus Iowa uh what we've been doing who's back of the week a great interview with Bobby Hurley and we're set to finish the basketball season. Great show coming your way.
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We'll be right back. on the sun oh no we're gonna rock down to electric avenue and then we'll take it higher oh we're gonna rock down to electric avenue presented by barstool sports welcome to pardon my take today is monday april 3, and then there were two.
Dun-dun-dun! Championship game. UConn is a wagon, and that might be the kiss of death, because I'm the minus sign king, and I'm about to lay a brick.
I'm about to lay a brick on UConn, and it's giving me vibes of how sure I was that there were going to be no doinks. I'm essentially betting on no doinks tonight.
Okay, so let's set the scene. Let's set the scene for the people.
If you watched the intro, you saw us in a different place. We care so much about the listeners.
There were people walking by the room we were recording in. We're now in Louisiana, by the way.
Then we said, we have to, for the AWLs, stand up, walk out, find a new room, and now we are here. And we're in Louisiana.
We're in Houston on Saturday night for the Final Four. We attended the game, and now we're going to break down the games.
Straight up, Lake Charles, Louisiana is my favorite place on earth. It is.
I love this place. It is.
So, yeah, it's a fantastic place. Thank you to everyone who uh accommodates us here where should we start with the game should we go with the the first game the buzzer beater and then get to yukon let's get chronological with it it was the most tan fan base that i've ever seen in the history of a basketball game um a lot of bros from san diego a lot of bros from fau very attractive people just in general this was the broiest final Final Four ever because Miami bros go hard as well.
Yep. Like there was a few times where I turned around in the concourse and there was just a bunch of Miami fans and I was like, you guys look like you're having a fucking awesome time and I wish I was somewhere between 15 to 17 years younger.
Watching a bunch of dudes roll around just slugging tall boys, wearing Sean Taylor and Ray Lewis football jerseys. Yep.
That's how basketball should be played. Saw some Tony Gwynn jerseys, which was sick.
That's just a nice wrinkle. I actually saw a baseball San Diego State Tony Gwynn jersey.
That was cool. Did he play at San Diego State? I don't think so.
Yeah, he did. He did.
Yeah, and he was basketball player, too. He's a damn good basketball player.
Yeah, there were some of those as well. So the vibes were cool.
We went into the arena. Memes and I sat, I mean, it is Space City.
We were basically sitting in orbit. We went and we sat at the top row.
People were shaming us. I actually enjoyed the top row.
You couldn't really see a lot, but I actually enjoyed it. I don't know why.
Like, there was something about it. It was kind of cool to see the entire arena all at once.
Yeah, you were up high enough. That's like where Jeff Bezos goes when he says he's going to outer space.
Yeah. Just in like near-Earth orbit.
That's where you were. It's a knock against the whole idea of playing basketball in a football stadium.
Yes. Which I understand why they do it, because they can sell a shitload more tickets.

But at the same time, it doesn't have,

the arena doesn't rock as much.

It's not as loud.

You can't hear everything.

Jake, I mean, the press seats that they had,

you guys were.

The NCAA tournament is such bullshit.

They basically take an entire half of the state

of the first section and right by the court side and just give it to the press well there's three rows center court yeah that's ridiculous for the elite press right so who gets like but does any other event do that no they don't do that for the nba finals no chance no they don't yeah exactly yeah exactly all like the national publications get the center court ones and then everyone else gets the end zone. Well, the New York Times doesn't have a checkmark.
But anyway, so the upstairs, I will admit there was a few times memes can maybe chime in. There was a few times where a shot was made and I didn't know if it was made or not.
And I just reacted off of the crowd. Like there was a couple of even swishes where I was like, did that did did that go in so it was kind of hard to see but the vibes were great like you when you get all the way up there you're with you're closer to god and you're with god's people because everyone up there is like we we had to get all the way up here it takes a lot that means that jim dance was in hell yeah courtside he got a standing ovation from everybody i want to hear i want to hear classy yeah he was pointing he was he was tipping his invisible hat to everybody in the arena we gave him a standing oh shout out jim nance yeah class personified yes absolutely did you uh have a little tear tear during that moment it was really a nice moment uh i don't know if you saw on twitter i got to catch up with jim on friday's practice day oh you did I interviewed him what you didn't see this yeah I do not you didn't see it the best part best part by far Jim Nance told Jake that he was proud of him wait can you play it on your phone real quick I listen I apologize whenever we're on the road there's a lot that happens there's a lot that happens there's just like things are moving we were driving we've we've we drove from austin to houston houston to louisiana we were playing golf we're doing all kinds of shit so i apologize for missing it's okay yeah so i had the media no he had seems like a groper not that's not accusatory like more like a friendly girl friendly at a boy yeah right like congratulations j Jim Nance is a little older, so they used to grope back then.

Yeah, it's like when an old man grabs your butt.

It's not creepy.

Right.

It's not like he's assaulting anyone.

It's just like he just gropes.

I've had my butt grabbed by more people over the age of 70 than anybody else on this planet, I think.

Yeah, right.

He's like a Biden hair sniffer.

This is like a two-minute interview.

You can watch it in its entirety on my Twitter feed.

I'll fast forward to the last 30 seconds.

The first minute, minute and a half was me asking about Jim Nance week going straight from the Final Four to Augusta. Okay.
Things like that and talking about the games. But yeah.
The mini fire vest. The band started playing in the middle of the interview.
Oh, no. For the full interview, you can look at Jake's Twitter account.
Yes. Oh, yeah.
He also dropped in his wild. Oh, yeah.
We can't hear anything. Okay.
It'll get better. I'm proud of you, Jake.
Is that your book? Absolutely. Have a great fall this weekend.
And if you're good, I didn't hear anything. You'll be doing it, man.
I'm proud of you for your career. There you go.
Oh, okay. Did he know who you were? So, it sounded like.
I'm proud of you for your opinion. He just sees like a guy in his 20s in a suit.
He's like, you're just doing it right, son. He's proud of you because you finished in the top 10.
I'll explain the back story. When I shook his hand and introduced myself.
Hi, my name is Jake Marsh, fellow play-by-play broadcaster. I went to Syracuse and I actually finished in the top 10 in your award.
I told you guys about this award when I interviewed you. Yes, yes.
The Jim Nance Award. Top 10, you finished ninth.
I finished ninth. There's a bunch of people who apply.
Yeah, yeah. Top 10.
Top 10. Top 10.
Yeah, top 10. Top 10.
Top 10. That is top 10.
They rank the top 20 collegiate sportscasters in the country every year. I was just happy to be on the list.
So you finished in the first half in the top of the ranked people yeah 20 but it's like it's like in college basketball there's a top 25 right oh there's a bunch of other but yeah i mean ranked tons of yeah okay got it everybody at northwestern 25 there's 330 people who don't get it top 10 top 10 glad to be on the list bears fly forever you're like the indianapolis cult yeah other words, Jim Nance was like, I'm very proud of you for being the ninth most like me person in college broadcast in 2018. Did you say I went from top 10 to a job at the reputable Barstool Sports? I said I work at Barstool Sports.
Okay. All right.
Good job, Jim Nance. I like that.
Yeah. I mean, I'm a big Jim Nance guy.
We would love to have him on the show. Absolutely.
Love to. Yes.
Love to be groped by Jim Nance. No.
Well, I would. All right.
So you don't get the groped. You wouldn't let Jim Nance grab your butthole.
No. No, not the butthole.
I'm good with touch your butt. Accidentally one pinky into the crack.
He's going to cup a cheek. He told me he was proud of me.
I'll leave it. I'll leave it at that.
We found a good way to ruin this moment for Jake. I'm proud of you, Jake.
I'm proud of you. Nance is hanging up.
Maybe that means he's stepping into his nice post-woke after career page where he can now finally let loose. He's going to start a podcast.
Phil doing golf in NFL. Okay, yeah, true.
True. So he's...
Wow. So that actually actually is the final four was always number three on his

list maybe that's sad maybe that's why tony romo was always like because jim nance is just getting up there yeah he's got his hand he's like jeff dunham yeah he's got his hand up this will be his final travel from the final four to the masters wow end of an era uh who's taking over Ian Eagle.

Okay.

Fellow Syracuse guy.

Great.

Wild fact here.

Who finished number one in the Gymnance broadcast? He finished number two the next year. No, no.
Not. Wait.
His son. His son.
No. My friend Noah from Syracuse.
That's wild because Ian Eagle, his son Noah Eagle is also a broadcaster. Yeah.
Isn't that crazy? Look out for him on NBC on Big Ten. Yes.
I willon definitely look at Nickelodeon all right so I and Eagle that's a good replacement yeah uh all right so we got a little sidetracked but the moment for Jim Nance was special it was beautiful were you a little touched not the groping thing but touched yes it was great okay uh the game let's talk about the game I wish Dusty May had paid more attention to our interview when I told him that when San Diego State gets down by like 7 to 10, you haven't won yet. Yeah, they were down by more than that.
They were down by 14. Yeah.
So San Diego State. Well, they got out hot.
San Diego State came out strong, and it looked like nobody was going to miss a shot on San Diego State. And same with FAU.
So FAU, San Diego State, their last lead in the game until the buzzer beater was at 11.05 in the first half that's when when FAU had tied the game I think it's 17 and from that point on till the last second FAU was in control of the game felt like I mean they put up 40 in the first half which San Diego State I think that's only happened one other time this year. Yeah, so FAU felt like they were, like, everything they wanted to do was working.
And then San Diego State, they just, they're so tough. They don't go away.
There was a couple calls, but, you know, like, the block call on Golden, he had a clean block. That was a great block.
That sucked. But San Diego State, credit to them because they're tough as nails.
And we get the first ever buzzer beater in the Final Four when the team shooting the ball was trailing. Yeah, it's crazy that it's taken this long because there's so many iconic buzzer beaters that happened in the Final Four or we think happened.
But it's usually with a tie game or to tie the game at the end of regulation. But that was crazy to see that.
San Diego State, this is justice for them. San Diego State 2020, they were very highly ranked.
Them and Dayton were the ones who got screwed the most by COVID. I don't know what seed they would have been.
Probably a one. Maybe a one seed.
So they canceled the tournament for COVID. This is San Diego State's redemption arc.
They make it back. If they want any chance at all against UConn, they have to make some foul shots.
My theory on San Diego State, number 13, and then I forget the other guy that was, they were shooting a lot towards the end of the game. Bradley's their best scorer.
Bradley. So they're both too jacked up.
Yeah. Because they live on the beach in San Diego.
So they're like, I got to have guns swole when I go outside all the time. They're too strong, and they don't have any touch on their foul shots.
And that was the craziest part about the end of the game. So the final sequence, FAU, I don't know.
I guess you probably don't have this play in your playbook, but if FAU, if Dusty May can learn anything from it, it's like figure out a play where if there's a six-second differential in the shot clock, shoot right before the shot clock and hope the rebound just gets batted around a bunch. Because what ended up happening is they get the ball back with 36 seconds.
They're up by one. They shoot with like 10 seconds left in the game, five seconds left in the shot clock.
San Diego State comes down, no timeout. Brian Dutcher afterwards said, they asked him about it.
He said, I ran out of plays, which is awesome. He's like, I had no more plays to give them.
So, and San Diego State was in a defensive setup. So they had their two leading scorers on the season.
Matt Bradley and Darian Trammellell were on the bench and he's like fuck it let's just go and then he comes down uh lamont butler almost goes out of bounds yeah i thought he wasn't aware of the time he didn't do anything until like two seconds it felt like when watching that that they weren't going to get a shot yeah and then he he hits that buzzer beater you have um did you hear the the call? I haven't watched it in depth yet. Okay, because maybe one of Hall of Fame orgasm in our ears by Bill Raftery.
Oh, yes, I did hear that. I want to play it for you.
He laid out after that, though. Yeah, but here's the final sequence.
Put down by Vincent. They have the one timeout.
Are they going to take it or not? They don't have the scores on the floor. It's Butler.
With two beautiful orgasm. I love Raptor.
He's the best. Well, I wish those moments.
I know that it's not. It's like uncouth in broadcasting to have the second guy make a noise there.
But that was what it was. Like, that's March.
Like, it was a Final Four buzzer beater. That was all of our reactions.
We all were like, holy shit, he just did this. You need that guy in the threesome, though, because you've got Nance, again, class personified.
Grant Hill, class personified. And then you need Raftery to be like, oh, man it also i have some wild stuff for you ready for it brian dutcher didn't call a timeout now he had a timeout brian dutcher was also on the coaching staff for the most famous timeout ever chris weber yeah when he was coaching under steve fisher at michigan steve, legendary coach at Michigan, gets fired from Michigan for NCAA sanctions, all this stuff, goes to San Diego State, stays there forever, hands it off to Brian Dutcher, who's been waiting forever.
I think he's 63 years old. Basically, everything that Steve Fisher built at Michigan with the Fab Five now in today's ncaa is allowed and like the whole thing has come full circle where it's like those guys imagine how much money the the fab five would have made yeah on nil it would have been crazy and now they're in the steve fisher's there i think his son has als who he's he's part of the coaching staff like great story it's just all that brian dutch are waiting he was an assistant for 30 plus years you know grinding it out and now he's here and they're in the their championship game on monday night like dream run it's just it's why you watch sports it's these type of stories where like you have the guy who's been working his whole life and san diego state gets robbed in 2020 and now they're here and ready to to take down uconConn, maybe.
It's so funny to think about what used to be recruiting violations and how heavily they were punished, like they were breaking the law at Michigan. When you think back to Bruce Pearl getting fired because he cooked a burger for one of his kids, pretty much.
And now it's like, well, that's nothing. That's nothing.
A kid would laugh at you if you offered him a burger. He'd be like, where's my Wagyu steak? Yes.
So the game has shifted entirely. The game really changed in the second half because the San Diego State student section.
Yeah. They started building a cup snake.
They did. Which is another thing that's completely different about the Final Four.
Used to not be able to drink beer at these games. Yes.
Now you've got the San Diego State bros slugging Coors Lights, building a giant beer snake, willing their team to victory, come from behind. Solid effort from the Aztec fans.
Yes. I mean, it was an incredible comeback, incredible moment.
I can't believe that it was the first. We've had buzzer beaters in the Final Four.
We've never had a buzzer beater where the team that was trailing hit the buzzer beater so we've had the time chris jenkins the game was tied um the famous nc state one against houston the jim valvano that was a tie game what was the christian leitner one christian leitner was a tie game as well um so they're all like they were all tie games i don't know if leitner that wasn't final four i don't think that was to get to the final four yeah that was over kentucky yeah there was another one i think marquette in like 77 i believe is the other 92 elite eight yeah also i will say this is back-to-back games in that venue yes buzzer beaters because chris jenkins 2016 ended that tournament wild good point back-to-back buzzer beaters well there have been other games since then not in that venue college basketball yeah in houston at all no seven years i don't think they played in NRG Stadium yet. Yeah.
That's a wild stat. Phoenix in 17, San Antonio 18, Minneapolis 19, nothing in 20.
21 was the bubble and 22 was New Orleans. That is wild.
It's also cool walking in NRG Stadium because it's right next to the Astrodome. Yes.
And they should open up the Astrodome to like creepy sleepovers. In high school sports.
Yeah. Or you should be able to break into the Astrodome and just rummage through it.

Like,

like a post-apocalyptic,

like wolves rummaging through like a garage sale.

You should be able to take whatever you want out of the Astrodome.

I understand why they tear down old stadiums,

but I wish they kept up more old.

Yeah.

Sign a waiver.

Yeah.

Like the Silverdome has,

I think has now been fully taken down,

but that should have stayed up and they should have, I know it's doesn't make sense because it's tax money, all that shit. Don't tell me that.
I don't care. That should, like, the Michigan high school football champion should be played at Silverdome every year.
Yep. Like, that would be cool if those old stadiums still had a purpose.
But, yeah, the Astrodome, because it's crazy to think that was the state-of-the-art dome in whatever it was, 70s, maybe even late 60s when it was built, and it just dwarfs in size compared to NRG. It is crazy.
That was a great game, though. It was a fantastic game.
Well, it wasn't a great game, but the ending was fantastic. It was much.
It was a good first. In the first half, people were like, this is a much better game than people thought.
Yeah. They loosened up the rims, which was great.
Yes. Also, shout out FAU.
What a season. Yeah, so FAU.
And they could all be back. Yeah, so Dusty May signed an extension, which was cool.
I think they invested some more money in the program. I think all their guys except one.
All five starters are eligible to come back. The first guy who recruited Forrest, I think we talked about him last week.
He's the only senior. So, yeah, NIL would be the only thing i could get these guys away yeah what else would you want to be besides boca like i understand there's bigger programs like you're not going to be in a better place to live yeah and they won what was their final uh 35 and 4 yeah insane season dusty may hell of a coach do drop that play dusty may if we ever have him back on just the i swear it would work if there's six seconds differential i know that san diego state had a timeout so they could call a timeout but if you just get a ball on the rim as like the shot clock is expiring it probably isn't like and it's batted around even a little bit you're in the you're in the championship game well is there a play that you can possibly run that's kind of like when players try to get their own triple double at the end of the game yeah just chuck it off the where where you you drive to the hole and somehow you lay it up off the rim and intentionally catch it and then kick it out yeah you don't even try to score just throw it as hard as you can off the rim yeah and just hope the ball bounces around enough that time expires just slam it against the rim yeah this is a great idea we should be basketball coaches we should be basketball coaches uh all right.
So, Jake, I'll get your full March Madness take after we talk about the next game.

Let's talk about the next game.

UConn completely destroys Miami.

I know that the final score was maybe a little bit closer.

13, but they were never in the game.

If they were 9-0 to start.

Miami never had a lead.

There was a couple spurts that Miami had where, you know, it was like, know it was like oh watch out for Miami and UConn completely squashed that they are on a dominant dominant run so a couple stats one is they're 16 and 0 against non-conference opponents crazy they just held so they played back to back Miami was the fifth rated offense in Ken Palm. They held them to 59 points.
They were scoring 79.1 points per game. Gonzaga was the first offense in Ken Palm.
They were scoring 86.1 points per game. They scored 54.
So they held their last two opponents to 20-plus points, 30 for Gonzaga, less than their season average. They also are the fifth team to enter the national championship game that has won every single game on their path by double digits so 2000 Michigan 2001 Duke 2009 UNC 2016 UNC 2018 Villanova 2016 UNC the only one to not win the title Chris Jenkins shot yeah and Yeah.
And remember the 2018 Villanova team, like that was. They dominated.
They just dominated absolutely everyone. And then Sunogo is the fourth player in 40 years to average 20 points with 65% shooting.
Crazy. Yeah.
And he did it on Ramadan. Yeah.
He was. With a late sunset in central time.
They have so many options on offense and defense. And like like, they can play inside.
They can play outside. They hit all their big shots.
They are on just an absolute tear of a run. They also are going for the point differential crown.
So, they're plus 103 right now in the tournament. The UNC was plus 104.
The only three teams better. UNC in plus 104 kentucky 96 plus 120 duke 99 plus 126 duke 99 lost to yukon editor's note in 2016 villanova had a point differential of plus 121 which is also higher than yukon's point differential in 2023 so it might be a foregone conclusion that yukon's going to win this i win this.
I think most people are saying that they're going to win. I'll just say, I'll count this.
I won't use the Mickey Mouse word if they beat Miami and Dan Hurley's son scores a point. That's my bar for victory.
That's the true victory for UConn. Shout out Andrew Hurley.
Get him in the game. Get him a good look, coach.
Draw something up for him. But yeah, UConnon's been utterly dominant there was a point in the game where miami got it back to 10 and every time they would get it back to 10 the crowd was like so energized because that felt like a tie yeah just being within 10 points you got i know they shaved it a little bit closer after that at one point but um it would just be like okay they battle back to 10 and then 20 seconds later yukon would be up 16.
And I know that people would be like, well, UConn's path has not been as difficult because Miami did play the toughest path going to. You play who you play.
Right, you play who you play. Don't apologize, Q.
Also, this is revisionist history because everyone said Gonzaga, they're playing lights out. Arkansas had just beaten Kansas.
St. Mary's was one of those teams everyone was looking out for, and you beat them all by double digits.
And none of the games have even been like a sweat. Like they haven't, besides Iona, shout out Rick Pitino.
He was the only, like the first half against Iona was probably the only time that UConn was sweating even a little bit. What was the score at halftime in that game? I think they were down two.
Yeah. One or two.
But that's how dominant they have been um and it's been incredible to watch and i actually read an article i think it was in the athletic it was like this yukon team is so good dan hurley only swore once during this game it was like talking about how zen he is now and it's like no he's still a psycho he just trusts these guys so much that he doesn't have to be as much of a psycho yeah he's wearing his lucky underwear every game yeah his wife was like yeah i don't know i can't i can't convince him not to wear it but he's putting on the same pair of underwear for every single game and and he's definitely he's definitely washing it right yeah yeah yeah i would hope so and then didn't you wasn't that the ref that he had jeff anderson which we talked about what talked about in the interview. Fucking clown.
Called him that December 28th against Villanova. What did he call him? And they paired him fucking clown.
Fudging clown. Oh, wow.
But to piggyback off what you guys were talking about, Andrew Hurley, to put it in perspective, the walk-ons, he has played in all five tournament games. Yeah, right.
He played in two Big East games. Right.
He's played in five straight games because they've all been blown it's not they're shit pumping everybody they're just a they're a goddamn wagon walk-ons hope to play one tournament game he got to play in all five yeah it's been it i think that as chaotic as this tournament has been and there's been a lot of hand-wringing like college basketball sucks now because fau and san diego state got there which shut up that we had butler and vcu in 2011 everyone remembers that fondly so i don't really understand the difference but if they can finish this run we will remember it as yukon's tournament and how like how much they just absolutely crushed everyone i think i think in a weird way that's very good for the sport to have like a dominant team one year yeah because then you think you think back and you just, like you said, it's UConn. That was the year of UConn.
And 16-0 against non-conference opponents. Dan Hurley has said it.
Like once they got out of the Big East schedule, everything became a lot easier. And that has proven to be correct so far.
And we're officially crowning UConn a blue blood if they win this championship, right? Yes. I don't know how you can argue otherwise.
They have five championships in the last 24 years. We are a Hurley podcast.
We have Bobby Hurley coming up, which was a great interview. And then as for Miami, I mean, incredible season.
Jim Laranega seems like one of the most likable guys in the sport. I do not understand how Nigel Pack only had one pair of shoes.
We had Shoegate in the middle of the game. Shout out to the manager, AWL, who ran and got the shoes.
Are we saying ran? It was like a brisk walk. Yeah.
He did like an acceptable. Who hustled.
He hustled. He hustled.
He did an acceptable walk for a run who's someone that's not an athlete. Right.
It's like when someone says like run over here to me, I'll like move my arms really fast to make it look like I'm running, but I yeah but i'm not he hustled and i i still jason hicks canes i don't understand how nigel pack only had one pair of shoes yeah how is that possible it was uh it was i don't know i don't know how many pairs of shoes college kids travel with i don't know how many they have in the locker room at least two i'd hope yeah it was i need i need somebody to tell me how much hit. Was it Nike? Was it a pair of Nikes? It was Adidas.
Adidas. What stock hit did Adidas take because his shoes broke down? It was.
I mean, Miami was never winning that game. But to have him on the sideline because he didn't have a pair of shoes is just an insane thing to have happen during a national semifinal game.
Yeah. And a game like that, you keep, you keep hoping and waiting for a run.
You keep hoping that Miami is going to really get it close and that we'll have something root for going down the stretch, but that's just, Yukon's not going to give that up. Yukon's too good.
Nope. Nope.
Jake, are you finding it? It's Adidas. I believe it's Adidas.
We are really going hard on Yukon here. But I honestly, I don't see a way that San Diego State beats them.
If they do, would this be the most shocking upset in NCAA tournament history? You'd probably have to go with. Yeah, I think they're sponsored by Adidas.
Besides Fairleigh Dickinson. I mean, you'd probably have to go with the Villanova versus Georgetown, right? Is that was, I think that was like a 10-point spread.
Yeah. I mean, that was, but yes, it would be up there.
It would absolutely be up there. Yeah, in terms of championship games.
But San Diego State's really fucking good. They are.
They are really, really good. And I don't think, obviously, I want UConn to win for my own wallet.
but i do think like i wouldn't be shocked if we're watching this game on monday night and it is a close game listen at the end of the day it's the tournament yeah it's like anything can happen yeah it really lights out for a game yeah yeah so i just need you know what i would like is just to have like some doubt in my head going into it i would like if even if it was a fake report came out that said uconn's players all have the flu today. I just want somebody to say that Hawkins, who by the way, had a wedgie interviewed him about that, by the way, kind of putting us all at risk.
Cause you did interview him. Yeah.
Sorry. That was the first thing that came to my head.
Did you wear a mask? It was like six inches from his face. And you had to get the answers that people wanted.
You weren't masked up. And get us the flu.
I'm putting myself at risk for the answers. And us.
So he was sick, but he then wasn't sick during the game. I think it was non-COVID illness.
Yeah, no, he was fine. I mean, everyone's like, is he going to play? Oh, my God.
It's like, dude, it's a Final Four. My entire life is a non-COVID illness.
He said that wedgies are more embarrassing than air balls, which I was surprised by. That's a big statement.
I disagree. Yeah.
Same. The only reason that you could say you could make the argument that it is is because the game stops.
So everyone's like, what the fuck, dude? Well, if the crowd comes up with a wedgie chant that they all yell simultaneously, like they do for an air ball, then I'll start to believe it. But until that happens, I think the air ball is the worst thing you can do yeah also airballs can go out of balance airballs can go out of balance that's true that's a fact um all right so jake rated t for team my name is paul hayman special counsel to roman reigns and the bloodlines wise man step out of the ropes and onto the island in wwe 2k25.
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What do you got for? Yeah. Do you think? Yeah, go ahead.
At the end the end of the day this obviously being recorded before the champion is crowned but like the three big takeaways from this if you can't finish it off their dominant performance will be remembered forever this tournament had an all-time upset this tournament had an all-time shot or two with Furman and last night with SDSU so you have the small moments you have the big upset and if UConn wins it's total dominance like there's plenty of takeaways from this tournament no matter how it ends of you when you think of 2023 NCAA tournament FDU Furman UConn San Diego State buzzer beat in the final four now are you are you as confident as we are in UConn I think on paper yes but like I said the tournament is the tournament and that's the only thing where i'm a little hesitant the fact that the tournament is the tournament right because just as you are sure about something the other thing happens yeah like it's one game would you eat your column if you're gonna call him or would you eat this podcast sure you'll eat this podcast so we'll get it put on a chip logo no no we'll get it we'll get it put on a chip yeah we'll get it on an edible chip on an sd card okay we'll make it audible though i don't want to get sick yes it'll totally be edible for sure we have the technology so we'll give you an edible chip a super edible microchip uh that you'll then have to swallow and pass if sdsc wins yes. Yes.
Okay. All right.
Great. Jake will eat this podcast.
Yes. Yes.
Eat his bowl. You guys will be upset too.
Yeah, no, I'll be very upset. I'll be very, very upset.
Yeah. Nothing against San Diego State.
Personally, it's just business. Yeah.
I would like to win a future at some point in my life. This tournament, you had small moments.
You had big moments. Yeah, no, I think it's been fantastic.
It delivers every year. And I just never understand, like, people just show up in March and they're like, this product sucks.
Go watch something else then. I don't care.
Yeah, honestly, I don't think that San Diego is going to be that upset. I don't think they listed a podcast in San Diego.
We had some memes and I when we were up top. We had some San Diego State fans saying what's up to us.
And shout out to Coach Velasquez, assistant coach of San Diego State, AWL. He does listen.
That's true, yeah. He said, I don't know what was more likely.
SDSU making the Final Four or Hank hitting the lottery ball. And he said, well, here we are in the Final Four.
Some of us predicted San Diego State to go to the Final Four. That's true.
On this side of the table, I've never once predicted Hank would get the lottery ball. That's true.
Also true. I think it's way more unlikely that Hank gets the lottery ball.
Also true. All right.
Should we talk a little women's championship game? So LSU, congrats to them. Kim Mulkey showing up in her Tiger business suit, I guess it was.
Yeah, no, she looked great. She did.
When I was looking at her, I was like, that looks like if Amy Poehler played Adriana from The Sopranos. Yes, I like that.
She, all right, would. Yeah.
Just hand up, would. Kim Mulkey.
Yeah. LSU was fantastic, by the way.
They dominated that game. I know there was some ref stuff, which one of them was.
The Caitlin Clark technical foul was absolutely bullshit. It was insane.
She threw the ball behind her back. It went out of bounds.
Nobody tuned into that game to watch the refs. We tuned in to watch Kim Mulkey's outfits.
But no, Kim was on the court getting in the way of the refs. And then they give Caitlin Clark a technical foul for throwing the ball out of bounds behind her back.
even while looking at the ref she wasn't like showing off the ref she was just throwing out of bounds and the worst part about that play it was at the exact same time that zanino got her fourth personal foul who's they're they're big they're center and she's dominant when she's got the ball in her hands in the paint she got her fourth foul and then simultaneously caitlin clark gets teed up for

her fourth foul and at that point the comeback if it had any chance whatsoever it was over but all

the credit goes to lsu in the first half they shot nine for 12 from three from the first half

and they were a shitty shitty three-point team this tournament coming into this game and they

went nine for 12 in the first half they were hitting bank shots carson came off the bench

and had i think she was five for five from three well they basically iowa on friday night beat

Thank you. They went nine for 12 in the first half.
They were hitting bank shots. Carson came off the bench and had, I think she was five for five from three.
Well, they basically, Iowa on Friday night, beat, you know, South Carolina by daring them to take threes. Yeah.
It was undefeated. Yeah.
And packing the paint. And it seemed like that was kind of what they were doing again.
And LSU was like, no, we'll take these threes. Yeah.
We need to figure out a way. Because, I mean, LSU was going to win regardless of what the refs were going to do because they were that good but they didn't suck but the refs were awful they called i think it was 10 more personal fouls in this championship game than any other women's championship game in history that's it was it was it was bad it was bad officiating uh from start to finish and it kind of did go both ways they had some bullshit calls against iowa too um or on i They had bullshit calls on Iowa and on LSU.
Yeah. So it wasn't exactly one-sided, but it did seem that they, giving their two best players four fouls at the same time, that pushed it over the edge.
And it felt like one of the biggest championship games in the women's tournament. We also get the after effect of people arguing class online.
So Angela Reese, is that? reese angel reese uh for lsu as clock was expiring went and did the john cena you can't see me and then pointed to a ring finger in caitlin clark's face and then everyone erupted in having a is this classless uh way to stay classy uh this is bullshit debate online i i want I want to hear your take, PFT, but I'll just say point blank. If you are genuinely calling things classless and getting upset and saying, like, get some class, you've already kind of lost.
Yeah, if you say stay classy in the year 2023, go back to 2009 and then use that phrase. It sports you just won the championship you're allowed to show as little class as you want that's the one time when you can do anything you can you can dump a gatorade bucket on your coach and you can ruin their clothes that's still very there's no such thing as classless and classy yes at that time you're allowed to celebrate however you want because guess what you just won now I do think that doing the John Cena motion at a time when you just put another team season to death there's a time and a place for that maybe we shouldn't make a joke about that in that in that given situation but I thought it was awesome Caitlin Clark did it when she won that so that's the thing about having like a signature celebration where you might be a little bit disrespectful to your opponent if you put it out there good for you but then you're also not allowed to be mad when somebody does that to you it's if you shit talk and you have something that you're doing to someone else and then the and then it turns on you and you lose a game you have to expect it coming back to you now angela reese it was a little weird how she like stalked caitlin clark.
Here's why. Because it was as the clock was ticking down and her teammates were all celebrating, that like go celebrate with your team.
Don't, you know, follow a play around. But in terms of classy, who the fuck cares? Yeah.
It's sports. You shit talk.
You get shit talk. It all happens.
I bet you Caitlin Clark had no problem with it. I actually think this is a win, though, for women's basketball because seeing all these people upset online, that's just fans upset that their team lost.
Yeah. And if they're upset their team lost, they cared enough, and that's good for women's basketball because at the end of the day, it's kind of like, what was the other one we were talking about? Oh, Creighton fans.
Like, we know how this game works. If you are a sports fan, you are psycho.
And I count myself as one. We're all sports fans in this room.
You're psycho. When you have a bad loss, when you have a demoralizing moment, you act irrationally.
You act angry. You lash out.
Those things happen. So I don't think anyone who's calling her classes right now, like, not gonna be like oh my god how could you it's just how they're coping and and i bet you in

tomorrow when they wake up or a week from now they'll be like yeah that was kind of dumb that

i argued online for like two hours about class of of a fucking you can't see me yeah motion listen

we are a very pro woman podcast on this show we love women i love women yes and over the years

This is a production of the U my mom some of my best moms are women yeah over the years there's been a discussion in women's sports because it has been underrepresented sometimes you don't get to watch as much of it on tv there's been a good conversation about just supporting women's athletics now we're making the next step where we stop cheering for every team and we're like i fucking hate that yes which i actually think is good because we're having the debate about it like we would about men's sports it was the the moment that i hit me was friday night when i read the tweet of someone saying uh i was a bunch of pussies for packing the paint on South Carolina and I was like yes this is good yeah we're just calling we're calling random people pussies just because we're mad how they're playing defense like this is this is the next step some of the ways are rationally angry online about the women's tournament that's great yes one of the best ways to truly support women's sports is by hating women that are playing on a team that's playing against your favorite yes yes exactly to get very upset about your team losing yeah we're very happy when your team wins it's called fandom and having rivalries like that is great for the sport agreed agreed so shout out to women caitlin clark was incredible i mean that that that tournament run i saw the scored more points, I think, in the NCAA tournament than Iowa's football offense this year. She back-to-back 40s.
That's an unbelievable stat. Yeah, back-to-back 40s.
What'd she have today? Like 33? Yeah, 30. All-time record.
She was awesome. And she's got two more years, right? She might go to the WNBA.
I think so. I don't know.
She might make more money having NIL at Iowa. Yeah.
Okay, but COVID here. Maybe two more years.
Yeah might go to the wmb i think so i don't i don't know she might make more money having nil at iowa yeah okay but maybe two years yeah yeah so uh she i credit to kim mulkey for i'm sure she pointed out to the refs before the game because they were calling it very strictly uh her little her push-off move that she does to get open for three sometimes off the dribble they were calling that against her they call it i think she got two of those called in the first half and uh kim mulkey looked like she was having a seizure she was so happy when they called that yes but i mean that was that was probably the difference right there is getting her into foul trouble early and getting zanino into foul trouble early and then um the their third score uh hitting shots for the wing i forget but she was in foul trouble too it was i had, like, four starters that were in severe foul trouble with about, like, nine, ten minutes left. Yeah, it was crazy.
Like, at the start of the fourth quarter. Ruins the championship.
It did take some of the shine off of it. That technical being her fourth was a big factor, too.
Yeah. I mean, that was the worst technical call.
But you knew that it was balled a lot because Reese went up there and she bricked the two technical free throws. Yeah.
Okay. Let's do who's back of the week.
Then we got Bobby Hurley. Who's back of the week is brought to you by our friends at Coors Light.
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Another one, an in-season tournament. Boo.
But, okay, I don't like change as a person. Just point blank, don't like change.
Anything that changes, like day to day, I'm like, oh, this sucks. Like when I have to get on a flight, I'm like, fuck this.
I want to sit on my couch. Change sucks.
and then i always go somewhere and i have fun i hate this but i think it will probably be good yeah so what are the benefits they're going to count as regular season games right so there's so the winning team gets a half a million per player yeah that's the incentive so half a million per player it's pool play in november and december and then they get to a final eight and then they play a final four neutral A final four neutral site in Vegas. Yeah, so final eight and the final four.
It was, the winner would only have to play one extra game. It will, it essentially, the NBA was like, how can we make it so that LeBron gets more rings so he can feel like he's better than Jordan? Let's make a made-up trophy in the middle of the season.
It's kind of like the Maui or Battle for Atlantis. Yeah.
It counts, you get a trophy. Yeah, I think you're probably the same with me, PFT, where you're like, this is stupid.
I don't like it. I don't like it.
Now, however, if a team that I'm rooting for wins that tournament, then I'm going to be like, hang the banner up. Some would say that it's harder to win the midseason tournament than the end season.
Right. And essentially, like, don't like change, but when it starts happening, the NBA season, regular season is long.
It's boring at times. It means nothing at times.
So this will be something in the middle of the season where you're like, oh, this means something a little different. Well, that's exactly what this is.
It's the NBA admitting that their regular season is way too long. Correct.
It's like, why don't we have two playoffs? Two seasons. They have admitted that and then added an extra game.
Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah there's free agent spending changes and also uh marijuana is no longer prohibited yes no more okay yeah and what you said one and done one and done stays um i didn't read which is the funniest thing that people always blame colleges for yeah it's like that's an nba rule isn't it also a rule now that that players can do advertisements for cannabis companies and for gambling companies or did i get april fooled on that i think you got april fooled i don't know it's from shams i feel like shams is not shams not an april fool guy right if you're shams or if you're shefter and you put out a semi believable report like that yeah i think it might be a real report it might maybe that would be cool i've always said the nba needs more weed in it yeah now that jr's gone i see some gambling talk but yeah shams uh league's new cba will give players ability to invest in nba and wnba teams as well as promote and or invest in sports betting cannabis companies companies.
Okay. And that's the real Shams.

Wow.

That's the real Shams.

That seems like a big deal to me.

That is a big deal.

That they'll be able to promote gambling.

Yes.

Okay.

PFT, you're who's back.

My who's back of the week is Brooks Kipka.

Yes.

Brooks.

Shout out Brooks.

He won.

He's hot. He's the hottest golfer in the world going into Masters week.

He's back.

He won on the live tour. He battled off Patrick Reed to finish first place in Orlando.
So shout out, Brooks. Also, it sounds like the Live Tour, they're making this into an us versus them thing a little bit because they said today that at Augusta, if a Live golfer wins, I also heard, by the way, that Live is taking an idea that we did an interview with Shane Bacon, and we talked to him a little bit about the live versus pga and we talked about the idea that the live tour could give just like an added bonus purse if one of their golfers wins augusta i think that's happening i think the tour is actually doing that but also they said um greg norman said if a live golfer wins the masters all 17 other members will be on the 18th green making an appearance to congratulate them look at that patrick reed great teammate showing up for everybody there's no way if phil mickelson misses the cut he'll be there no they're bouncing yeah they're bouncing yeah so brooks is back uh for some reason people think that we have a beef with brooks we definitely don't no i'm rooting for brooks we're rooting for him we're not only rooting for him we were uh actually going to have him on we have a masters preview coming wednesday with Bacon, like PFT said, and also a pump up for Max Homa, who's going to be on the show.
We tried to get Brooks on for it. His schedule didn't work out because we were traveling on Thursday and his only day open was Thursday.
But he texted me. He said he's coming on whenever.
So hopefully he wins the Masters and we can have him on right after. Or if not, we'll have him on, uh, in the following weeks.
It would be good for golf. Yeah.
Brooks, one of the final group. That'd be amazing.
Well, I don't know. I'd have to wear like a split Jersey.
Like, like Mrs. Kelsey.
Yeah. I don't know.
You can't make those up. Don't make me choose.
Uh, I have another who's back of the week. Okay.
Aaron Hernandez. Oh, Oh, no, it's his brother.
This time, Dennis Hernandez. Hernandez.
Is that the one that sold a play sheet? I'm not sure if he did or not. That doesn't sound like the Dennis I know.
One that stole a play sheet that kind of ruled. They left their play sheet and he just took it.
Yeah, you should do that. Yeah.
You should do that. Don't leave your play sheet out.
But Dennis Hernandez, he's up in Bristol, Connecticut. He took an Uber to ESPN headquarters and then threw a brick through the window.

Yes.

And on the brick.

Okay, I like this.

He wrote a note to all media members.

It's about time you realize, spelled R-E-A-L-E-Y-E-S.

Realize, realize, realize.

Realize.

The effect media has on all family members.

Since you're a worldwide leader, maybe you could lead how media and messages are delivered brick by brick because it was on a brick clean it up shout out brick watches and then he signed it yours truly dennis j hernandez okay so and then somehow they they tracked down the guy that did this whoa so um excellent police work by the bristol police department yeah i'll just counterpoint real quick uh murderers also have an impact on people's families in the real world in the real world yeah like i'll just say that like that that those people who have lost a loved one uh yeah that that definitely has an impact multiple murder yes multiple murders allegedly yeah actually no he was never wasn't overturned i'm pretty sure he was convicted yeah but i think it gets overturned because he was in the process of appealing it so the fact that he offed himself means that his trial was never concluded got it he's a hung jury got it got it oh oh uh yeah so the aaron hernandez family is back is back at long last All right, I don't have a who's back because Jake stole mine. No, that's okay.
Stop apologizing. But I have more.
Jake, give him your backup who's back. The Lakers.
Oh, what are they? Oh, yeah. They are climbing up the West.
This is a very ESPN thing to do if the Lakers win a game. Are the Lakers a threat? My Timberwolves choked a 17.
They were 17-point favorites to the Blazers. Tough.
And they lost. Tough.
So seeds four through ten right now are separated by four and a half games. Damn.
Lakers are right there at eight. Are the Lakers back? They have LeBron and AD.
Ratings. Listen, they get out there.
It's rigged against Minnesotanesota can you imagine if if the lakers take your spot in the playoffs the fucking lakers yeah who took your name take your spot in the playoffs is rigged against minnesota i i know my who's back uh elon being a master troll so uh there was like elon basically with twitter and i respect the hell out of it every like two months he announces a big change And then a bunch of people on Twitter complain that Twitter is dying. Where do they complain about it? On Twitter.
Yeah. And they're like, I met some of my best friends here.
And like this app has changed my life. If this is truly the end, come follow my sub stack.
And then the next day they wake up and they just tweet again. So the latest one was he said that all legacy blue check marks are getting taken away um and he didn't we still have ours i think he just basically made everyone panic and buy twitter blue yeah he did take away new york times but he he then said we're gonna phase it out so we might still lose ours he's like but if anyone says that they're not gonna pay we're gonna take it away i think that yeah i think it's basically uh kind of an april fool's joke on everybody yeah and then and then if you start complaining about it then he's like manually taking away people that don't like his check yes that's and if you buy a company honestly if if you spend 44 billion dollars on a company you should be allowed to like make whatever tiny minuscule petty changes you want to it just to piss off people that don't like you but it's you spent 44 billion and i think it's worth like 20 billion now yeah so he's lost 24 billion dollars just so that he can be petty online i say that's worth it it's it's kind of a genius business plan like what if we said this is the last episode of part of my take ever so uh go buy a t-shirt.
Yeah. And they'll be gone forever.
It's like a boxer fake retiring after every single fight. Yeah, we just keep saying it every week.
We won't do that to people. Kiss does a reunion tour every, like, two years.
Some bands call it just a tour. Yeah.
But Kiss is like, this is the last one, guys. You'll never paint your faces again.
Oh, guess what? We're going to be back at the casino in Washington, Pennsylvania next year. Let's not make fun of that because I actually was talking to Hank a couple weeks ago.
I was like, you know, someday, like in 20 years, we should just do like a money grab and just do a tour. So we will do that.
Yeah. So everyone be ready.
Save a little money for that. We'll be going to 40 different cities in America.
The elderly tour of Pardon My Take. It will be right after we split up for some salacious reason that we made up so that way the tour means even more.
Billy killed one of us. Yeah, Billy killed one of us.
So we'll have hologram PFT or hologram Big Cat on the tour. Come on out.
It'll be sick. Also a hand up.
I took the bait on Twitter Blue. You bought it? I thought I was losing my check mark.
I wanted it. This motherfucker paid for it.
I I was losing my check mark I wanted it I wanted to keep my check mark I'm a big J you got your ass I'm not going to hide from it big Jake I have to keep my check mark I'm a big J but if everyone can pay for it it doesn't mean anything anymore i know you get that part right yeah but nobody's still blue jack come on like i in high school like i always wanted a blue check mark yeah i don't want to lose it yeah well so i paid for it all right all right all right there's a lot there are a lot of people out there like jake i think yeah no he made a lot of money i'm sure yep it was Okay. Thank you, Jake.
Let's get to Bobby Hurley. Great interview with Bobby Hurley.
And then after Bobby Hurley, we'll finish with the lottery ball, which we already taped. And I have a question for Max.
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Here he is. Bobby Hurley.
Okay. We now welcome on a very special guest.
It is head coach, the Arizona state sun devils. Also legend of the final four.
One, two titles, been here three times. It's Bobby Hurley.
We're sitting here here let's set the stage because we're going to run this on monday so it's saturday uh morning before the final four uh so let's just hope everything goes well tonight because we're going to run this on monday do you want to you want to do a prediction both ways and we can cut out the one that's wrong yeah let's uh let's start with the other game here the first game right it was at fau and uh in san diego state fau is like one of those great stories like that the tournament's built on right all these underdogs and uh just a mid-major that's kind of flown under the radar and gotten all the way so happy for those for those guys uh i've had a chance of playing in san diego state quite a bit and they're a really hard-playing team, hard-nosed team. So I like San Diego State to advance in the first game.
If that's wrong, we'll cut that. Yeah, low-scoring, tight game.
Okay. They're a very good defensive team.
Yeah, and then obviously your brother's game. How nervous are you? Because, like, you can't control anything.
Are you – does it feel like a game day for you? Yeah, like it's starting to kick in now, the reality of it and stuff. Yesterday I was, you know, really busy doing things here for the Final Four and got to see Dan last night and spend time with him.
And just he was already a bundle of nervous energy. But, yeah, it's starting to really resonate now, you know, what's at stake for him and for and for you know for the family to see him uh do this on this stage it's just uh it's so cool so just want to see him keep it rolling man I was in Vegas with him for those two games and they were so dominant so just hoping that they're that of somewhat of a version of that team that I saw in Vegas for two games yeah you reached out to him him at all with any actual basketball advice, anything you've seen on tape, or is it just like an understanding? Like, this is your team, you got it.
If you saw something, would you let him know? Be like, hey, I think I see something with this guy's defense, how he switches up. No, I don't want to cloud his mind and his judgment, and I trust it.
We watch each other's teams like every game. So I think I know UConn as well as anybody in the country,

what they do, how they're built,

what they're trying to do out there.

But as far as trying to give him any advice in that direction,

no, I haven't even, I watched Miami play like twice this year.

I mean, he's probably watched like 20 games.

He's crazy about just his film study and preparation.

So what about your dad though?

Because I would imagine obviously your dad, legendary high high school basketball coach probably the best of all time does he have like one play that he's been holding for like if any of my sons get to the final four like I'm going to show him this play like I've never I've never shown anyone this play it got in my mind do you have anything like that I would like to imagine he did well I mean I that's a good idea and But I didn't really think of that. For me to present that to Dan, I have a few in my pocket that I use only for special occasions.
But yeah, I didn't hear anything regarding that with my dad. Blows the dust off the play.
Takes it off a high shelf. It's the pick and roll.
Yeah, and also here's a little tip, media tip our side. Like, if they go on to win the national title, either you or Dan should say, oh, yeah, our dad gave us this play and just pick the best play of the game.
And just be like, yeah, he gave it to us. And then they'll just write stories and everyone will be like, oh, my God.
Yeah. Just to pay tribute to our dad.
Right. Of course.
Exactly. Yeah.
I read that Dan's rocking the same underwear every game in this tournament. It's his lucky underwear, I guess.
Yeah. He's got cartoons on it.
Is he a superstitious guy when it comes to stuff like that? Yeah, I mean, he had stuff he was doing when I coached with him at Wagner in Rhode Island where he would eat M&Ms every day. He would just have to have a pack of M&Ms.
I don't know. He would always go rest right before the game.
I remember one game at Wagner. It was getting close to when the game was about to start, and his office was pitch black, and he was like under his desk laying down and stuff.
So it was just – I think he goes into a really dark place sometimes to get himself really amped to coach. But that was one time that his meditation might have went over the top a little bit.
He told us when we had him on Monday, he said that it's good that there isn't like a lot of tape of you guys at Wagner together. Because you guys would just give the refs like everything.
Was there ever a moment where like, would you do like a tag team like wrestling? It's like, no, you get him, you get him. Or he'd get kicked out and you'd be like, well, now you got to deal with the other Hurley.
Yeah, like I got like three T's there as an assistant coach. As an assistant.
So like, and then he would like give me like a death stare. Like, are you serious, man? I like, it's hard enough me controlling my emotions and now you're getting them too.
So yeah. But it was, yeah, it was back and forth.
We would, and I was like, I knew I couldn't be like him and he was the guy that's, you know, on the front line doing it. But I was like behind the scenes really during timeouts messing with those guys.
Yeah, right, right. I was just working towards the future because I knew I'd be a head coach soon.
So I had to make sure I get my game right. So that, like those years, Wagner and then URI, obviously you guys had the first year URI wasn't easy.
Was it when you decide I want to go into coaching and I'm going to be my little brother's assistant coach, was there like a little humble pie that you had to eat or was it you guys are tight enough that this is going to work? It was big time humble. Yeah.
And I just, it was all about Dan and we talked quite a bit about him taking the job and I don't even think he was a hundred percent sure he was going to take it. He had a great situation at St.
Benedict's. He had coached like Tristanistan Thompson J.R.
Smith all these guys national program but so it was a leap of faith to do it for him but uh so I knew I was just going to come in and do you know put my head down at work and just do whatever I had to do I mean I was in an office with two other guys probably the size of this room right you know I was like I had to mop out before practice down on the court so like you know big time humble. And we didn't have the resources that we both have now at Power Conference School.
So you're just wearing a lot of different hats. Yeah, yeah.
That must have been – I don't know what your guys' relationship is like, but I can imagine that being an older brother and dealing with a younger brother like as your boss would have some – it might get awkward at times. You have to like have a little power struggle right up front.
And like you said, like eat some humble pie. How was that relationship like as it grew and as you guys both kind of came up through the coaching? I mean, it was just like cooler just to be in those meetings, you know, and then he and I just talking about basketball, talking about life, talking about our families.
Just we had so much time to spend like in the office together. And we had been disconnected doing our own thing for years so to get that time was was really cool as brothers you know yeah the time that wasn't great was it was recruiting meetings I would say with Dan because Dan uh would get after it he'd be very detail-oriented if if you didn't make the necessary calls you were supposed to make to whatever kid in his circle, he would know about it.

If a recruiting situation was going south with a kid and we were losing the battle,

some of those meetings were pretty ugly just in terms of getting after it just to make sure we get the players that we need.

Just a lot of yelling and the hurly.

Yeah, a lot of stress, a lot of tension.

Are you a little jealous that he's got the scowl?

Because you don't have the full scowl.

He's got a scowl that's like it would it stops anyone in their in their tracks yeah when he gives that like the chin out and everything yeah you need like you don't have the full scowl no no everyone has their own style i think it's uh you know mine is uh a little bit more like uh my head might explode. I think is, is when you untuck the shirt,

that's when it, it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's uh you know mine is uh a little bit more like uh my head might explode i think is when you untuck the shirt that's when it's on too i think it's when you get red yeah you start to get red yeah i really like internalize all my anger yeah yeah instantly yeah yeah so as john rostein our friend calls you uh his nickname is bobby fucking hurley yeah which is i think it's a good nickname, but it's also kind of low effort, low energy on John's part to just drop the F bomb in there. That's I think it's one of his worst ones.
Do you have any feeling one way or the other of everybody calling you Bobby fucking Hurley? Well, the one I don't like is when I lose a game or I screw something up and it's effing Bobby Hurley. Yeah, yeah's true.
So it kind of backfires on you there. Yeah, put a comma in there.
So I was curious about your playing days. I hate Duke.
Just want to let that be known. Well, I thought you had me here because of the affinity that you have.
No, yeah. I hate Coach K.
I hate him so, so much. But I didn't hate him as much when you were playing for him because it was still new.
And that's actually my question. When you got to Duke, they had been to a couple Final Fours.
They hadn't won at all. So it wasn't like full-on Duke hate by the public.
What was the recruiting – what was the decision? Who were you deciding between when you went to Duke? Was there other schools you you you kind of were part of the growth of coach K and the monster that we all

had to deal with for you know many decades well I was a big east guy so grew up with the big east

in New Jersey um two of my high school teammates that were seniors uh Terry DeHair played in the

NBA Jerry Walker both were going to go to Seton Hall and and we had agreed kind of together

verbally that we were all going to stay together we were national champions my senior year

Thank you. the NBA, Jerry Walker, both were going to go to Seton Hall.
And we had agreed kind of together verbally that we were all going to stay together. We were national champions my senior year.
Hey, let's go to Seton Hall and do it. I was also looking at Syracuse, Villanova a lot, but primarily, you know, big East schools.
My mom, big on education, loved Duke for that part of it. She wanted me to visit.

I had talked to Coach K a few times,

built a good enough relationship, but I just realistically didn't think

I was going to go that far from home.

And my mom was like, you've got to go on this visit.

So I was like, all right, I'm going to do it.

And I went and just was around Coach K, his family,

saw how he interacted with the players.

He had all the players at the house. It felt like a thing I watched Leitner play and pick up games I'm a point guard so I just kind of trusted my instincts and coach K to be honest he wore me out that weekend just with personal meetings you know met with me you know again over and over multiple times about like what I would bring, what I would do at Duke and the whole deal.

And I was pretty exhausted by the end of the weekend because my dad and my mom really didn't let me go out.

You know, I didn't have a social life in high school.

Right.

And now I'm on the Duke campus on a visit.

I'm going out and I'm going to parties.

You know, I'm staying up late.

So by the 48 hours is over, I'm exhausted.

And now Coach K is going to fly on the plane with me back to New Jersey. So now he's on the plane with me still hammering away.
Sounds annoying. Sounds like an annoying guy.
The persistence was like insane. And then finally at that point I'm like this guy wants me badly there.
I think it's the right place. So in my mind I was like I think I'm going'm going to Duke.
So as coach is now driving to my house, he's going to do another in-home visit. Now he's going to talk for another probably two hours about Duke with my parents.
And so I grabbed my parents and brought them in the kitchen and I was like, look, I'm going to Duke. I can't do this anymore.
I can't listen to another recruiting pitch.

But he sold it, and it was probably the best decision I ever made.

Other than my wife.

Yeah, there we go.

And the birth of your children.

So it must have been weird, too, because your dad, obviously, legendary coach.

When you're going through the recruiting pitches,

was there any pitch that you got where your dad was like,

this guy's full of shit? Like, I'm a better coach than him. You see, like, he just sheltered me from all the pitches.
Like, he would take all the calls. So, like, no one could really get to me.
And there were no cell phones. We had one phone in our house and stuff.
So I think I got on the phone. I happened to pick up the phone one time, and it was, I think it was Michigan on the phone, maybe like Steve Fisher or something.
Yeah, right. You know, and like, so, but it was just random, you know, that I would even answer the phone.
So you don't even know how much money you were being offered. Yeah.
No one would go at my dad like that. Like they knew his, like his credibility and stuff.
Right. It must've been intimidating from, for the coach's perspective to have to recruit a guy who's like the, his dad knows just as much about basketball as I do.
Look, I mean, he had Dean Smith coming through there. I mean, he had all kinds of players before I even surfaced with my brother.
So, like, he knew the whole drill. Like, he wasn't going to fall for any crazy shit.
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I mean, you're a great point guard.

You still have the all-time record

for most collegiate assists.

I think that might be a record

that's not going to be broken.

It's going to be tough.

Because we were talking the other day.

As long as you get through the COVID year.

The COVID year,

everybody got that extra

stat-padding asterisk here. But I'm not like the guys on the Dolphins or something where they just don't want to lose.
You pop champagne at the end of every season. If someone comes along and gets it.
Yeah, you'd be a little mad. Not really, though.
I mean, how long have I had it? Like over 30 years. Yeah, it's been a while.
But I think it's unbreakable. I'm going to say it's an unbreakable record.
Most likely because no one stays around long enough to try and break it. Right.
Or they can't play enough NCAA tournament games to break it. Or, yeah, like you played four years.
You were starting right out as a freshman. So it's hard to get all of that.
Guys who start as a freshman usually go to the pros. And also having Grant Hill and Christian Laettner able to make shots, that helps the assist total.
And Coach K, he let me play my game. That's what he did.
Even as a freshman, I broke the ACC record for assists in a single season my freshman year. And I broke the single season turnover record in the ACC too.
Like breath of interceptions and touchdowns. Did you ever have a moment where you thanked Christian Laettner for being so hateable that people didn't hate you as much? Because if Christian Laettner wasn't there, everyone would have hated you a lot.
Yeah, but he liked being hated. True.
So he enjoyed being the villain. Yeah.
So it was perfect for him. Yeah.
And you came early enough that I think the Duke hate didn't start until a little bit later. Yeah.
When we played in Denver my freshman year, we got destroyed by UNLV. It was humiliating, humbling.
In the final four. In the final four.
Yeah, you lost by like 30. We lost by 30.
And I was awful. I was like one for five at four turnovers.
They were just throwing lobs, dunking, and I was the last guy back. I was always there, and they were dunking over me and stuff.
So it was humiliating. I had my friends back home in Jersey when I went home.
I what did you do you know how could you play like that are you serious like like these Jersey people keep it real you know so it was uh it was tough off season right but uh getting back to that next final four like everyone was like anti-UNLV because they were involved with the NCAA and stuff and so some and they were undefeated unbeatable so like in that arena that night when we took them down like people were going nuts you guys were the underdog yeah like people were like little duke yeah which is crazy to think about yeah so it was like we were that team and then we won the title and the next year everyone hated us it was it's flipped like that yeah it was like everyone we were target everywhere we everywhere we went. What did you guys say when you were drawing up the play for Christian Laettner to hit that shot, two seconds left against Kentucky? What was that conversation like? Well, I got screened, and then they shot a straight-on bank shot.
Sean Woods did, and he made it. And I actually ran into Sean here.
He's at the Final Four. We still communicate.
Great guy. Hell of a player at Kentucky.
So they go up two. I'm literally on the floor and walk on timeouts, but I'm looking at the clock.
I'm like, there's no way. We're done.
But he was amazing at getting people and convincing people, Coach K was, that something could be done because he was able to recapture enough guys in the huddle to, to do what we did. And we practice game situations.
Like we did that same play and practice. We, we rehearsed it.
So it wasn't like that was the first time we did it. You know, I was the second option going to half court and, and Christian obviously was the primary.
And it's an iconic, iconic March Madness moment. Yeah.
It's probably number one. I'd say so.
Yeah. I wish that Gordon Hayward had hit that shot.
Cause that would have been number one, but it's an iconic iconic march madness moment yeah it's probably number one i'd say so yeah i wish that gordon hayward had hit that shot because that would have been number one but it's number one yeah it was amazing yeah that was i was uh that was some play too geez right yeah we had one like that this year i don't know if you guys oh yeah against arizona yeah that was incredible that wasn't drawn up look i had no timeouts left they were shooting two free throws, hey, you got to have two guys on the free throw line to rebound the shot. It was a two-shot foul.
I grabbed three of my players and brought them over. I had a board.
I said, you take it out. You set a screen.
My leading scorer, go up the sideline. You get credit for that? Yeah.
Some credit. Like, I don't know, 10% or 5%.
No, you get credit for that. That was an incredible, incredible shot.
Yeah. And it was, like, pure, too.
Yeah, but the venom for me in Tucson is insane. Yeah.
So for us to do it like that, it was unbelievable. Yeah, you had the moment, it was a couple years ago, when you got ejected, you untucked the shirt, you're pumping up the crowd.
Yes. I mean, that was vintage Bobby Hurley.
Have you ever thought about slapping the floor? Like, as you're going out, as you're getting ejected? I've considered that at times on the sideline, not after the ejection. I got ejected this year at San Francisco.
That one was tough, too. It's a bad feeling.
Everyone's screaming your name. Get out of here, Hurley.
And you're sweating. And then you're so angry.
And then you've got to go sit there, and then you're sweating and and and and you're like you're so angry and then you got to go sit there and then you're so lonely and then you just gotta say like you know why did i just act like that right right i imagine blacked out first blacked out there's a moment you sit down you're like well i'm stupid yeah yeah do you can you tell though before a game we actually were hanging out with uh bob huggins last night and uh he actually said that you guys got into it once which was very funny him retelling that because he was like i didn't do anything he's yelling at me but can you he know he said he was like yeah there's some games where i just know like the refs you know how they're calling the game my mood it's probably not going to go well tonight like i'm gonna get it i'm gonna get a t and i might get ejected yeah there. There was a game like that a few years ago.
It was a neutral site game versus St. Mary's, and they're a very good program.
And it was in Phoenix, and it was at the Suns Arena. And I didn't know who the assignment was because it was a neutral site.
I didn't know who the refs were until about an hour before the game. And on the game were the two refs at that time that had thrown me out.
And then the other ref was taken off the majority of my games because of just issues that we had. So that was the three guys on my game.
So when I looked at that, I was just, I told, I don't know how I'm going to survive this game. Yeah, right.
I don't know how I'm going to make it through. This is entrapment.
Yeah, right. They're trying to bait me.
They're baiting me to explode. And I'm not going to say who it was, but, yeah, it was – Yeah.
I mean, we lost badly too. I think we lost by 20 to 30.
But, I mean, that type of – I mean, coaches in college basketball are iconic. Like, that – because the players turn over every single year.
Like, that's what you remember about March Madness. And that's why I love both of you, both you and your brother, watching them, watching you guys, the passion, the anger, the scowls.
It's awesome. Yeah.
I mean, I think the players feed off it like they know we're invested. Right.
You can't fake the passion. You either have it or you don't.
I have my son there. For me.
He's kind of like my bodyguard.

You know, my son is on the team, and he knows when I'm about to lose it,

and he'll come over and grab me.

He's like, I've seen this before.

Hey, we need you, man.

The calling words to bring you back down a little bit.

Yeah, this looks like when I was like 10 years old and I didn't go to sleep.

And, yeah, all right, I see this coming.

That's smart. So you had, obviously, the accident when you went to the NBA.
For people who don't know, drafted seventh, 19 games, horrific car accident. Do you have – I know I was reading a story that, like, every time that date comes up, it's a painful memory.
But is there part of you that's like, hey, I was able to bounce back from this and still play in the NBA and like the toughness that you showed I don't think gets enough credit yeah I mean it was just uh I can't explain like where I was and uh just at the lowest possible level just physically you know mentally it was probably worse just getting in a car again you know I remember one of the first times I got in a car, someone beeped a horn at me. I was, like, so shaken up.
I just had to pull the car over. And so it was just, like, dealing with the aftermath of all that and the feelings you have with it.
You know, physically, it's kind of a shell of myself. You know, my left shoulder was just the biggest problem.
Like, I became, you know one-handed player at the end of the NBA I couldn't dribble yeah do that much with my left hand anymore um but yeah I just you know you gotta I say like everyone's got like a cross the bear like I was almost had like a perfect life it was like go to final fours win championships then go to the NBA you're you're living your dream, the whole deal. And I had no serious adversity, nothing really bad happened to me.
Everyone has bad things happen. So I was due for mine, and I think I've done the best I could with it.
I think there was a lot of dark times. I think my wife, Leslie, helped me tremendously when I was released from the NBA I had to deal with the failure of and go through that to figure out a way to be productive again you know so I think I it took me longer than I thought to get to coaching but I mean the relationships that you build with these kids like I was I had dinner with two of my former players here in town that are in town for the final four just seeing all the guys you coach playing in the nba yeah like freaking lou dort oh the best oh man he's your chamber 90 million dollar contract i mean i remember sitting in his living room in montreal canada with his family and just uh he did it the hard way and that dude is is fierce and he was one of my favorite guys to coach and uh you know lou was lou was special yeah i mean it was like so humble he'd be coming in like a lot of five-star guys they're like they know everything you know don't tell me anything i i know it all coach but he was always you know one of the most coachable humble nice kids big strong guy but like really like nice guy yeah like the only time i saw him get really really mad was uh we won a game i think we're at either cal or stanford and we're getting on the bus and we're going to uh uh and we got california pizza kitchen for the guys you know just a snack till we get to the hotel to the next stop and uh lou was late because he had to do media stuff and and uh lou ordered a a butter cake from uh from california pizza kitchen and someone took his butter cake and uh and he was pissed man i've never seen him get you know that angry rightfully so yeah we had to calm him down man he was serious about getting that butter yes yes i'd be pissed too i'm i'm pissed for him right now.
He's got $90 million. Yeah.
Can you still get hot from three?

No. yes yes i'd be pissed too i'm i'm pissed for him right now he's got 90 million dollars yeah uh can you still get hot from three you know the only thing i do with that is uh you know i'll take two shots everywhere we go it's one of my rituals my brother's got a million things he does too so we go to shoot around piss has that been confirmed yeah well we told him it was like hey it looks like piss we know it's not piss but maybe just pretend it is because that's a good intimidation it's a good psych out yeah if you're willing to do that that's got to scare some people just stare down the other coach and be like see this i have my suspicions because he brought it up to us he goes by the way guys i don't drink piss yeah which is a really unusual thing that sounds like someone who drinks piss't drink piss.
Yeah, it seems a little defensive. I've never drank piss before.
I've also never told anybody out of nowhere, hey, how's it going? My name's PFT. By the way, I don't drink piss.
I know you were thinking it, but I don't do it. I'm not even thinking about drinking piss right now.
So, all right, so two shots. So I make two shots every day.
So just so I could say whatever new arena I may never have been played in before that I made a couple of buckets there on the day of the game. So I'll make one at each basket, and then I'll just drop the ball back on the rack, you know.
Yeah. The other thing I'll do is I'll do a drill that I do with the guys.
I can still move a little bit laterally, so they'll get the ball at half court. They get like three or four dribbles, head of steam coming at me at the three-point line, and I'm just going to try and guess their handle see if I could take take the ball or beat them to the spot right and then if they go by me I have a coach and he's got a pad so he's going to knock the shit out of him and you got to finish through contact at the basket you know but I like to see like at this stage and where I'm at like if I could stay in front of you, then I'm in deep shit.
Right. Right.

When the game starts.

Right.

Right.

So that's why I do it.

I want to see like, hey, this guy that I have, my guard, he better be able to go by me.

Yes.

Yes.

And sometimes I guess right and I might beat him and then I could take a charge.

Are you taking charges in practice?

If I beat him to a spot and then I can't move, like they're too fast.

So then it's either you're going to run me over or you're going to go by me. Do a pad or anything or you got nothing no i know but then i could talk shit to like hey i just i saw i gotta stop or whatever so it's my way to stay connected if you are able to stop them then you're like shit i did a really bad job recruiting this kid because yes i'm able to stop it's one of my most fun things to do when I get new kids in the program,

freshmen or I just got to transfer.

So one of the first times that we'll do it, that's what I want to see.

I want to make sure that they can go buy me.

Yeah, that's great.

One other thing about getting drafted in the NBA,

you signed a sneaker deal with ITZ, In The Zone Sneakers.

Yes.

What is that?

Well. Do you have any? I have them in my trophy case.
Okay, you do. Yeah, in my house.
Yeah, I have them. Like, what is that for real? Yeah.
What is that? Well, it was a new company that was started. It was a new venture by Foot Locker.
Okay. So they were getting into the game of starting their own shoe.
So I was their first guy that was going to endorse the shoe. Were you their only guy? The only guy.
Okay. I was going to say.
And as it turned out, we did a huge commercial shoot. We did it in LA.
It was the coolest thing. Like a dream for a kid.
I had my own shoe And so we did the commercial. That was cool.
That was hitting national. And then all the marketing dollars went to me.
Unfortunately, like 20 games into my rookie year, I was doing okay. I mean, I wasn't setting the world on fire, but I was leading NBA rookies in assists.
20 games in, accident, everything that they had put into me, there was no plan B. We needed to do a what if.
If the accident doesn't happen in the zone shoes, it's better than Nike. Were they cool-looking shoes? I thought they were nice, like three-quarter mid, so they weren't like high tops.
They had a decent look to them. They had my number seven.
I seven in the nba on the back of the shoe did you have equity in that i didn't have any stock i was only it was strictly a financial deal you should bring this back oh yeah it's not a bad looking shoe it's not yeah i mean i'd have to bring three or four of them on the road for games because sometimes the bottoms would blow out because we were still figuring out like okay just to you know oh wait now i'm looking at a different picture it's a very bad shoe it's it's ugly so that one's not flattering yeah those look like uh we gotta bring it back it's like a wrestling shoe yeah like retro yeah in the zone shoes like what could have been yeah that would be sick i just i laugh when i was looking up i was like itz what the hell yeah yeah in the zone shoes um not to bring up another bad memory but i do from a coaching perspective i'm curious about this i'm a i'm a badger fan they sometimes have games where they just don't score you had a game where you scored 29 points yeah so you lost was like 50 to 29 um after that game were you like this isn't for me anymore because that that was a that was actually historic i think it was the lowest scoring it was one of the worst feelings that i've ever experienced i mean you got hit by a car 29 points i mean how could i describe it it was like a helpless feeling you're sitting there and and you hope and you wish you could just hit a button and then you just fall right to the floor. And then you're no longer there.
It was like I couldn't help them score a basket. Right.
But I could tell you kind of why it happened. Yeah, I would love to know.
If you want to know the back story on this. Yes, yes.
So we go to this big tournament in the Bahamas. And it's a holiday tournament.
The Battle of Atlantis or whatever. Atlantis, yeah.
But it's three straight days, right? So we go play. We start off with number one Baylor, and we lose by 12, right? So then we get Syracuse, and I think we lose 88-84.
So now we're day three, third straight day. We're playing a hard-nosed Loyola Chicago, and it's to just get a win so that we don't go 0 for 3.
Right. They played hard, outplayed us.
We lost again, so we lost three straight. So now we've got to get on a plane, fly from the Bahamas all the way up to Arizona, and then like three days later, we're in that game.
Yeah. These dudes were like shot, like wiped out.
Usually like when a, you know, Pac-12 tournament, you might have to, like we played three straight days, but we're playing Arizona in the semis to have a chance to win a championship. So you reach deep and you, you know, like this tournament, you just keep losing and then you got to go again.
You lose again and just keep going. You lose again.
Like Pac-12 tournament, you lose, you get your bags, you go home. Yeah.
So these dudes, i think mentally were beat up and physically all those games yeah yeah 29 points it's hard to do yeah but it's so unpredictable it's you know the next game we went to oregon i never wanted oregon and you know we scored like 80 and beat oregon did you yeah like that is college basketball did you after the 29 point game were all right, guys, we're going to start with the fundamentals. This is how you shoot.
Elbow in. I don't even know what I said to them.
It had to be something epic, though, but I can't even go back there. Maybe it's like when bad things happen, you're just trying to block them out of your memory.
Yeah. Pretend it didn't happen.
Burn the tape. Don't ever watch that again.
Yeah. I mean, in a weird way, having a historically bad performance might, it allows you to just be like, okay, I'm not even going to think about that.
Right. That's such an aberration that we're going to pretend that didn't happen just before.
And then the thing with me is everyone, like, kills me because I give too much freedom. Like, I let guys take quick shots.
We get up and down fast.

So it's rare that we would ever do that.

If anything, our opponent might score way too many

and we're not stopping them enough and stuff.

It was just so uncharacteristic.

Oh, I probably had the over in that game,

so that was probably my fault.

So I apologize.

I'm sure I did.

I was like, oh, Arizona State, they run up and down 29 points.

Shit.

How much fun would you have had going to Arizona State as a student? You really got to experience both sides of the academic spectrum there. Duke and then Arizona State, which is like apparent.
I've never been there, but I know people that went to college there. Let's just say they had a great time.
Well, my first week on the job, I brought in a kid shannon evans who was with me at buffalo he was two years uh it was i was two years at buffalo we won the league went to the ncaa tournament lost to coach huggins who who you brought up and that's might have been the exchange that he he brought up uh we lost a close game there in the ncaa tournament arizona state hired me shannon evans sophomore year, averaged 15 a game, was all-league player. He and I were like this.
Buffalo was his only scholarship at a high school. He wanted to go with me to Arizona State.
Fast forward, you know, about a week or so we do his visit, and it's a Friday in April, and it's about 4 o'clock, and we take Shannon to see potentially where he might live and it's one of these you know fancy you know apartments where students have all the amenities pool tables all these things right beautiful I'm like wow we didn't have this at Buffalo right right so we go up to the second floor and that's where the gym is for this apartment complex and they have huge windows and as we walk to the windows man it was like there was people in bathing suits and they were food and it was hundreds of people and it was nuts yeah it looked like freaking it's fake it was spring break yeah so he's looking there and he's like wow i just was in buffalo i think this looks pretty good to me you know so yeah i mean that's kind, in a nutshell, what it was that day. It's a fun place to go to school, but I got to be careful about the guys I bring.
I mean, they got to be serious about wanting to be pros and stuff. Yeah, because there's a lot more distractions than a place like Buffalo.
Yeah, you can lose your mind out there. You walk with them along that little beach area and just mark down how many times they look at the girls in swimsuits this guy might be too horny to play for me so what what's the best coaching lesson your dad and coach k have given you coach k probably didn't give you any coaching lessons but what what's the one thing you like go back to where it's like i have this ingrained in my head like when everything fails or when tough times come this is what i've learned from i think my dad my dad was just like insane competitor so all the competitive nature drive you see from my brother or me it's like it was grown in that house because like i've never seen anyone that hates losing like him like it didn't happen too often but when it did it was like armageddon in our house like yeah you know he was uh so we would just go into hiding, you know, Dan and I.
So you learn not to accept losing and you also see how hard he works. I mean, he was a probation officer and then he coached.
So you develop a work ethic and I think that has been a part of our identity, my brother and I. And then he was always willing to learn stuff.
Like I don't always feel like I know it all. Like I'm still learning.
Like I'm learning from our TCU loss. Like as coaches, we're constantly learning from failure or success.
And he was always willing to try different things. So my dad is, you know, he didn't think he knew it all ever.
And so I always kind of remember that. That's smart.
And then Coach K, he's just amazing at motivating. His messaging, for coaching, I always think about what I'm telling my players all the time.
Because if I'm not on point with what I want to say to them so that I'm pushing them in the direction they need to go, then that's one of the key underrated things about coaching is your messaging. Coach K, man, was as good as I've ever been around in terms of getting people to play at their peak and getting them ready for big games and all that stuff.
Were you watching Coach K's career? Because, again, you were there at the beginning. Were you upset ever that he got a little bit softer towards the end? Because I'm sure he was a lot harder on you guys when he was trying to climb the mountain.
Did you notice that when you go visit him that the players had a little bit easier than you did? I don't know. The times that I had been at games, I would sit right behind the bench and I would see him lighting everyone up in the huddles.
So he was the same guy. Yeah, I don't know how much of the edge he lost.
I wouldn't say that that was, through my experience of seeing it, I wasn't around all the time like that. Yeah.
Yeah, no, he got after it. And he did do, like, he would pull, wouldn't let them wear uniforms, right? Did he ever do that to you? Took the D off the uniform.
Yeah, did he ever do that to you guys? I think we got thrown out of the locker room at one point. We weren't able to use that, so we had to change, you know, at our apartment for practice.
And then after, just go home, go right back. He said we didn't deserve to be in that locker room anymore.
Walk to practice wearing your Duke uniform? Yeah. What if that guy plays basketball? Did he ever tell any jokes? Was he a sense of humor at all yeah he did it was like he um i remember one time my freshman year there was a big event that uh donors boosters were at and he was speaking and uh you know i'm from jersey and i'm in the south now right and so they have all the the good ribs and southern barbecue and all that and and it was uh the theme of night was that there was, it was going to be a barbecue.
Right. And so he was just saying like, he took a shot at me.
He was like, you know, they said that we're going to have barbecue. And Hurley thought we were going to have like hot dogs and hamburgers.
He's just, he would always, you know, take those. He had a really, you know, good dry sense of humor.
What about aette? I love that guy. Whatever happened to him? Pete was great.
I loved Pete. He would always, after practice, grab me.
When I'm tired, he just wanted me to get more shots up and stuff. Pete was a funny dude, too, man.
One time in the airport, I remember Coach put a dollar bill in the baggage claim. He just claim and he just put it on there and it was just spinning around and he was just looking to see what what would happen with it some random guy just walked up looked around and took it took the dollar bill you know he would do stuff like that you know just uh but coach he actually came to a game of mine when I was coaching at Buffalo at Kent State oh nice yeah coach got that so I was able to spend a little time with him.
He's the kind of guy that would do anything for you. Yeah, he did everything for Coach K, including taking all those losses.
I did set you up there. I mean, those should be on Coach K's record, but whatever.
We don't have to get into that. We're here celebrating the Final Four.
Our last couple questions. So we are here at the Final Four.
Do you have like like i would imagine this time of year every year you just have like great memories flash back in your head because it is my favorite tournament it's such a like march is so special and it's got to be like something extra special for you do you have that like it all flashes back when we get to this time of year yeah i mean i just i put myself back inV game, the plays I made to think about it, what it felt like to stand on that stage when you won and you're the champ and that's it. It's like life-changing.
It's hard to explain it. When you do it, it's such a good feeling that once that feeling goes away, then I just wanted to get back in the gym again.
Right. Because I knew everyone would be chasing me for it, you know.
So, like, I made sure, like, the next year that we were, like, ready again. And I don't know.
We just were able to play in iconic games. Yeah.
Playing that UNLV game and it beat Kansas. I remember throwing a pass to Grand Hill where I kind of was dribbling it and I fumbled the ball a little bit.
I had to throw the lob right quick and the and the ball was like going right into the crowd, you know. And he just went up there and reached and dunked it.
So I'm seeing that. And then playing Indiana.
I got to go play Indiana the next year. Bobby Knight, Coach K, and then the Fab Five.
Fab Five, yeah. Yeah, it was just like these big-time games, you know, with so much on the line.
It was just – It's a lot of the tournament as it is today and, like, the love that we have for it as sports fans came from those runs and, like, those iconic teams. Yeah.
Yeah. And it's just – there's so many more outlets now.
You know, there's so many more media ways to watch basketball. Like, every team could be watched.
Like, back when I played, it was basically us on CBS on Saturdayurday or you know espn it was duke was on tv like every weekend yeah so you're brainwashed with duke all the time yeah well i hate you guys so much um i was gonna say i can't watch the pac-12 network but you do that's not your fault i'm always like what the hell i want to watch this game uh it's like every every single year like, God damn it. I want to watch this game.
You sound like my parents of the kids that I coach. Well, I mean, it's probably for different reasons.
They want to watch their son coach. I'm like, I bet on this game.
I want to watch this game. All right.
So last question for me, rowback question, R-H-O-B-A-C-K.com. Use promo code TAKE20% off.
I'm wearing the polo right now. Q-zips, hoodies, joggers, great athletic wear.
So I love horse racing. You got into horse racing.
Do you miss, like, because you were in it right after you left the NBA. It's one of the hardest businesses to be in.
Do you miss it? Do you ever think about going back into it? I do. And I've talked to my wife, Leslie, about i'm getting some resistance yeah and it's impossible business yeah it's it's from a business you don't get in it to make money yeah you can't it's hard yeah but like again it replaced my competitive nature towards that i had for basketball it was it was something different that i did i was able to uh to learn a lot about it.
I had some great moments. I had a horse run in the Kentucky Derby.
I won a couple of grade one races. I was fairly successful, but it's not an easy business.
But I love it. I still watch all the big races.
Yeah, there's two big races today. The Florida Derby.
Yeah, and the Arkansas Derby. I'll be rooting.'ll be rooting i love forte i've watched forte a few times i know he's will be the kentucky derby favorite right yeah yeah yeah i mean he's got a win today but yeah i got a good feeling about forte yeah that's my pick i mean horse racing like when you i was at i was lucky enough to go to breeders this year and i saw flight line i was like this horse when you see those oh at that race, too.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we go to a bunch of races.
Yeah, yeah. That, like, it kind of took your breath away just watching what he did, right? That, and I saw American Pharaoh in 2015, also at Keeneland for the breeders, and I was like, this horse is.
Yeah. When you see those horses that are special, it really does, like, take your breath away.
You're like, I'm seeing something that I've- Something special. You'll never- You won't see for another decade.
Yeah. Yeah.
for another decade yeah yeah that horse was amazing flight line yeah he might be the best horse i've ever seen ever i wish that we could we'll talk off there but like that's my only problem with horse racing is like the fact that he's already out to stud it's like i want to see that horse race yeah again and again and again yeah but that's a different discussion do you want to ask him if he's actually rooting for his brother? Yeah, yeah. So I asked your brother this.
Is there any 1%, tiny, tiny percent of you sibling rivalry?

Like, God, it'd be good to see him lose.

No way.

It's his time, man.

This is like he's had to deal with my stuff his whole life,

especially his playing career.

We're best friends, so there's not a fabric in my body or whatever that doesn't want to see him win on Monday night like it would be the coolest thing uh you know my dad has always had his thing you know I had my thing I mean he's paid his dues I mean he started as a high school coach like I worked with him for three years so as good a coaches as I've been exposed to like like, he's in that category. Like, and I saw it, like, for years.
So, like, I knew this day was coming. And I just hope that he closes the deal.
And, you know, I'll be, like, it's going to be hard to watch these games. Like, it was hard in Vegas.
Like, he made it easy because they were just dominating, you know, both games. But, you know, you live and die like every possession.
Like, you know the impact of everything, you you know so as from a coaching standpoint so that's what i'll be doing you know for those two hours tonight it is it is i mean perfectly put like your dad obviously legendary high school coach you had a legendary college career and then your brother to be able to potentially win as a coach in the final four yeah everyone gets their own thing yeah you guys hog it all. Also, Hurley's are just taking everything.

You're great in Blue Chips, too.

Your performance on the silver screen was fantastic.

One of the best basketball movies.

Yeah.

You want a good story?

I can tell you on that.

Yeah, yeah.

So we're in that movie, and they're shooting raw footage the whole time.

And I'm on the Indiana team.

I got the Indiana jersey.

Bob Knight is the coach.

And I'm being super fundamental. I'm like, I'm throwing chest passes and bounce passes.
I'm throwing lobs over the shoulder, behind the back. I'm keeping everything real simple for coach.
You know, respect. So we shoot all the footage, and they needed one more shot.
So the director come in the huddle, and he says, all right, we need about 15, 20 minutes to set up the last play. So Penny Hardaway is going to throw the lob past the Shaquille O'Neal.
And then they win. And then that's how the movie ends, right? You've seen the movie.
Yeah, it's a great, great movie. So they set the shot up, get the cameras in place, get the crowd where they want them.
The director comes in the huddle, tells Coach Knight, hey, you're ready for you guys. Come on out and play defense.
So he leaves. As we're leaving the huddle to go play defense, Coach Knight says, don't let him get it.
Grab him. So they run the play.
He's coaching him. They run the play, set the back screen.
Shaq goes off the back screen. They throw the lob.
We grab Shaq. The ball goes out of bounds and he's yelling, the director's yelling, cut, cut, cut.
So now they had to reset the whole shot again. But you guys won.
Yeah. Well, we won the scrimmage, but like in the scrimmage game, we won, but like in the movie.
Yeah, but no, on that take, you guys won. Yeah, you guys won.
Bobby Knight just won. They got to release that.
Yeah. They got to release that in ITZ's shoes.
All right. Well, Coach, this has been awesome.
Thank you so much for making time for us. We're big fans of the Hurley family, and we'll be rooting you on next year and your brother this weekend.
I appreciate you guys. Enjoyed it, man.
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Okay. Let's wrap up the show.
We got breaking moves, huge breaking moves, breaking, breaking moves, Max. those trash those terrible trash

break Breaking Moose. Breaking Moose.
Max. That was trash.
That was terrible. Trash.
Breaking Moose. Henry Lockwood is in hell right now.
His flight to vacation in San Diego is 35 minutes to late. Oh, no.
Poor Hank. That's terrible.
And Hank, I know that he really wanted to be here for this show. So much.
But unfortunately, he had to play another round of golf and then go to the airport. Yeah.
So we taped some golf videos this morning. One was going to come out and part of my take YouTube.
The other is on Macrodosing YouTube. So we went and golfed with Arian Foster today.
And Hank could have changed his flight to come to St. Charles with us.
Lake Charles, sorry. Lake Charles with us.
Instead, he was like, why don't you guys go ahead? I'm going to play some more golf. You guys go work.
I'm going to golf to prep for my vacation where I'm going to golf. Yeah, you know, you can't just go on a golf vacation without golfing before.
Yeah. And now some might say, but hey, guys, weren't you already golfing today?

He wanted to play a full 36.

He wanted to play without cameras. We were doing it for work.

He was like, no, I'm going to stick back.

You know what, guys?

I'm going to close down this golf course real quick.

Make sure all the lights are off and the doors are locked.

You guys go ahead and keep working.

Yeah.

So credit to Hank.

I know he did want to be here very, very much, but I guess his vacation got off to a rocky start some would say karma yes i would not uh i had a question for max real quick um max we gotta are you gonna are you gonna take a bath in my outdoor bath here i i don't understand why this has turned into a thing because you said that you take baths on the road while watching your laptop and i said that's the saddest thing ever and you're like that's not sad i was like no no i also take baths and i know how sad it looks because you got your fat belly your little dick you're peeing on yourself and you're taking a bath well i mean i understand that the visual isn't great it's not it's not but it's not there's other people in there with me. I'm not looking at myself.
But now we're going to tape you taking a bath. When you stand up out of the bath and you get that first glimpse of yourself in the mirror and you have to think about what you've just done, that is a sad moment.
I mean, it's not like every time I look at myself in the mirror, it's not necessarily the proudest moment. Listen, we're losing 20 pounds.
That's true. The next Memorial Day? Memorial Day.
Losing 20 pounds by Memorial Day. We've done this before, but we're doing it for real this time.
We were walking on the golf course, and Max just goes, losing 20 pounds by Memorial Day, and then just shakes my hand. I was like, why are you shaking my hand? It's on.
He's like, I just want it to be on the record., because by doing that, that means it's officially on. Yeah, it's going to happen.
You got to burn the boats. Yeah, just burn the boats.
Max, just start slamming salads. Rip a soup.
Go to the soup and salad diet. It's a great diet.
We're going to have Memorial Day abs. Yeah.
Well, let's not. Let's not get carried away.
Abs is crazy. Let's not get carried away.
Come on. Max and I remember never done abs.
Yeah. Abs aren't real.
No. They aren't.
But yeah, no. I'm going to lose some weight.
20 pounds. Baths are cool.
Baths are relaxing. I'm not saying the baths aren't cool.
I do take baths as well. I'm saying that all I said when you remarked that you watched a movie in the bath on Friday night, I was like, oh, that's a sad site.
So we, and you were like, what? And I was like, well, I, you and I look the same. Like when I take a bath, if someone walked in and saw me taking a bath, they'd be like, no, yeah, it's, it's scary.
Right. So it's not, it's not romantic.
It's not cool. I also want to say like the bathtubs at our hotel in Houston were fantastic bathtubs.
They were the big jacuzzi ones. They had jets just blasting in it.
Oh, you got to do the jets. You got to do the jets.
Yeah, because like I don't want you to think that you're just going into like the little shower bathtub. If you knew how Max takes a bath, you'd be impressed with it.
Max, you put like a lot of bubble bath in there, don't you? So I had this huge thing of body wash in there and i just hell yes and i swear it was like a a massive yes so that covers your gut yeah so i i squeezed literally probably 75 of this bottle like into the water as it was coming out and it didn't give that much it didn't give me that many bubbles but then when I clicked the jets it was it was bubble city I thought I was good it was like a like a washing machine when you put too much too many suds in it baths are definitely cool I don't want to sound like that baths aren't cool baths are you shouldn't pee on yourself they're very cool but we all do sometimes a little squirts out you get so relaxed I think what you say is don't jerk off on yourself in the bathroom. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But everyone's done it. Would never do that.
Never do that. I plead the fifth.
Definitely happened. Plead the fifth.
Well, then you pee after to wash out the jerk off. That doesn't work.
Those things. You can't do both of those things.
Well, yeah, you can pee after. Yeah, and it gets everywhere the hole yeah clean the pipes up but yeah well yeah no i mean yeah i know it's a gross scene dude i just said when i take a bath it's a gross fucking scene i always imagine it's like a dragon breathing fire onto a crowd of people but it's just urine killing millions of sperm yeah right no that's especially if you're eating spicy food

yeah dead are you trying to kill sperm always yeah what if someone scoops up comes to your bath after what if a woman sits in your bath after and gets pregnant yeah then i then i'm sitting here with a huge child how do you think i have a third kid on the way yeah yeah it was the All right.

Let's kick it to ourselves.

We got,

Oh,

the golf videos.

So the, it was the bat all right um let's kick it to ourselves we got uh oh uh the golf videos so the part of my take one out tomorrow that was funny that was funny no these guys work very hard the editing is not easy no definitely don't tweet at max and be like when the golf videos golf video? Don't. I got your back, Max.

Don't do that.

They'll be out when they're out.

Yep.

They'll be out when they're out.

Golf videos take forever to edit.

I know.

That was Hank's.

That's quite a goodbye for Hank.

He's like, I'm not going to help with producing the podcast because I'm going on vacation.

But also, you're going to be stuck with having to edit me playing golf for the next week and a half.

But do watch PMTV.

Yeah, because we played a little bit of golf in last week's PMTV. There might be a little.
But you got that out pretty quick. Well, that's.
I mean, that was just like. We're traveling Monday and Tuesday.
Wednesday will be the golf video. Well, Thursday.
No, no, no. Thursday, we might put a little bit of.
There might be a little bit of golf content in this. Well, Max and Masters is weekend.
People are going to want to see content. They need more golf.
I don't know. We'll see.
I'm not making any promises for anything. All right.
Let's kick it to ourselves back in the studio. See if Hank gets a lottery ball.
Okay. Lottery ball time.
Hank, you ever gotten this? No. We're taping them all back to back.
You said that you didn't want to get it right now. Why? I just want to be in person.
I want to get it in person. I mean, you could be.
We're all here. It's a Wednesday.
Yeah, I could be, but I'm not. Yeah, it would actually suck if Hank got this one.
Yeah. Maybe, you know, do a little self-evaluation on time off.
I mean, I'm working. I just am doing meetings all day, so I work from home.
If we're recording the podcast or have a plan, you kind of – We recorded a bunch of stuff. Yeah, you kind of just sprung this on me.
Oh, okay. All right, well, I wanted to give you a chance.
You can X out right now. You don't have to be part of this.
There was no way that Hank could have come into work today if you only give him $18 notice, Big Cat.

All right, so you want to... I know.

I actually told Big Cat yesterday I wasn't coming in.

He was fine with it.

If he said, I need you in, I easily would have come in.

Do you want to X out?

Kind of.

I mean, you guys are being rude.

You guys are being hostile.

You guys are being hostile.

I'm not being hostile.

I don't understand the hostility.

Have you ever gotten this number?

No.

All right.

Do you want to X out?

Kind of, yeah.

All right, So go ahead.

You're out of here.

Can I get like an umpire?

Yeah.

Bang.

See you, buddy.

Do you want to sit and watch, though?

You sit and watch.

Oh, so he's guessing.

Okay, yeah.

That's technically a false start.

Yeah, that is a false start.

That's technically a false start.

You left.

What a baby.

All right.

I'm going to give him six. All right.
We'll give him six for this one. I'll go numbers.
I'll go 17. I'll go 76.
99. Oh, he's asking to come back in.
You knew he couldn't stay away. You knew he couldn't stay away.
You knew he couldn't stay away. Oh, you knew he couldn't stay away.

That was a great.

I know you're C-suite, but art of the deal, bro.

I read it, and I just fucking bodied you in that.

All right, memes, which horse?

99.

Is he keeping six?

Yeah, he's keeping six. It was a false start.

Oh, yeah, but no one else picked six, so he gets six.

So anyone else wants six?

18. 29 new new new we're down to six and 26.
wow unreal-26. Wow.
And Hank picked six. He picked a new number.
New! He still couldn't get it right. There's three of them.
He had a 33% chance of winning that one. What was the bet, again, if they all get picked before him? Well, no, we were going to do that, but then he would just sit on one number.
6, 26, 29. Now 29.
Wow.

A lot of people are going to be really happy.

Yeah.

They stick to the same number, the strategy we talked about. That's an understatement, Jake.

People are going to be ecstatic.

Yeah.

Damn.

Okay.

We'll see everyone on Wednesday.

Love you guys.

Penguins give rocks like wedding rooms.

That's it. Like wedding.
I'm coming for your lover's case Don't be

Take me

Take me

Take me

Take me

Take me

Take me

Take me

Take me