Bobby Hurley, Final Four From Houston, Women’s National Title And Who’s Back Of The Week

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Speaker 1 On today's part in my take, we have two-time national champion, head coach of the Arizona State Sun Devils, Bobby Hurley, also brother to Dan Hurley, who's in the championship game.

Speaker 1 Monday night, we're going to recap Houston, the Final Four, our our weekend. We went to the game, the first game that is,

Speaker 1 talk a little women's championship game, LSU versus Iowa, what we've been doing, who's back of the week, a great interview with Bobby Hurley, and we're set to finish the college basketball season.

Speaker 1 Great show coming your way.

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Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 1 let's go.

Speaker 1 Now in the street, there is violence.

Speaker 1 And I love some work to be done.

Speaker 1 No place behind a lot of washing.

Speaker 1 And then I can't name all on the sound. Oh no, we're gonna rock it down to Electric Avenue.

Speaker 1 And then we'll take it higher.

Speaker 1 Oh, we're gonna rock it down to

Speaker 1 electric avenue.

Speaker 1 Welcome to Pardon My Take. Today is Monday, April 3rd, and then there were two

Speaker 1 Championship game.

Speaker 6 UConn is a wagon, and that might be the kiss of death, because I'm the minus sign king, and I'm about to lay a brick. I'm about to lay a brick on UConn.

Speaker 6 And it's giving me vibes of how sure I was that there were going to be no doinks. I'm essentially betting on no doinks tonight.

Speaker 1 Okay, so let's set the scene. Let's set the scene for the people.
If you watch the intro, you saw us in a different place. Huh? We care so much about the listeners.

Speaker 1 There were people walking by the room we were recording in. We're now in Louisiana, by the way,

Speaker 1 that we said we have to, for the AWLs, stand up, walk out, find a new room, and now we are here. And we're in Louisiana.
We're in Houston on Saturday night for the Final Four.

Speaker 1 We attended the game, and now we're going to break down the games.

Speaker 6 Straight up, Lake Charles, Louisiana is my favorite place on earth. It is.
I love this place. It is.

Speaker 1 So it's, yeah, it's a fantastic place. Thank you to everyone who accommodates us here.
Where should we start with the game?

Speaker 1 Should we go with the first game, the buzzer beater, and then get to you, Colin?

Speaker 6 Let's get chronological with it. It was the most tanned fan base that I've ever seen in the history of a basketball game.

Speaker 6 A lot of bros from San Diego, a lot of bros from FAU. Very attractive people, just in general.

Speaker 1 This was the broiest final forever because Miami bros go hard as well.

Speaker 1 Like there was a few times where I turned around in the concourse and there was just a bunch of Miami fans and I was like, you guys look like you're having a fucking awesome time.

Speaker 1 And I wish I was somewhere between 15 to 17 years younger.

Speaker 6 Watching a bunch of dudes roll around, just slugging tall boys, wearing Sean Taylor and Ray Lewis football jerseys. Yep.
That's how basketball should be played.

Speaker 1 Saw some Tony Gwynn jerseys, which was sick. That's just a nice wrinkle.
I actually saw a baseball San Diego State Tony Gwynn jersey. That was cool.

Speaker 1 Did he play at San Diego State? I don't think so. Yeah, he did.
He did. He did.

Speaker 6 Yeah, and he was a basketball player, too.

Speaker 1 He's a damn good basketball player. Yeah, there were some of those as well.
So the vibes were cool. We went into the arena.
Memes and I sat.

Speaker 1 I mean, it is Space City. We were basically sitting in orbit.
We went and we sat at the top row.

Speaker 1 People were shaming us. I actually enjoyed the top row.
You couldn't really see a lot, but I actually enjoyed it. I don't know why.
Like, there was something about it.

Speaker 1 It was kind of cool to see the entire arena all at once.

Speaker 6 Yeah, you're up high enough. That's like where Jeff Bezos goes when he says he's going to outer space.

Speaker 6 He's just in like near-earth orbit that's where you were it's a knock against the whole idea of playing basketball in a football stadium yes which i understand why they do it because they can sell a load more tickets but at the same time it doesn't have the arena doesn't rock as much you know it's not as loud you can't hear everything

Speaker 1 jake i mean the the press seats that they had you guys were oh they the ncia tournament is such bullshit they basically take an entire half of the state of the first uh section and and right by the court side and just give it to the press.

Speaker 1 Well, there's three rows center court. Yeah, that's ridiculous for the elite press.
Right. So who get like, but like does any other event do that? No.

Speaker 1 They don't do that for the NBA Finals. No chance.
No, they don't. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. Exactly.
All like the national publications get the center court ones and then everyone else gets the end zone.

Speaker 1 Well, the New York Times doesn't even have a check mark. But anyway, so the

Speaker 1 upstairs, I will admit, there was a few times, memes can maybe chime in. There was a few times where a shot was made and I didn't know if it was made or not, and I just reacted off of the crowd.

Speaker 1 Like, there was a couple of even swishes where I was like, did that, did that go in? So it was kind of hard to see, but the vibes were great.

Speaker 1 Like, when you get all the way up there, you're with, you're, you're closer to God and you're with God's people because everyone up there is like, we, we had to get all the way up here.

Speaker 6 It takes a lot. That means that Jim Nance was in hell.
Yeah. Courtside.
He got a standing ovation from everybody. I want to hear.
I want to see him.

Speaker 6 Yeah. He was pointing, he was tipping his invisible hat to everybody in the arena.
We gave him a stand and go. Shout out, Jim Nance.

Speaker 6 Class personified.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Did you have a little tear during that moment? It was really a nice moment. I don't know if you saw on Twitter.
I got to catch up with Jim on Friday's practice day.

Speaker 6 Oh, you did? I interviewed him.

Speaker 1 What? You didn't see this? No.

Speaker 1 I did not. You didn't see it?

Speaker 6 Best part by far, Jim Nance told Jake that he was proud of him.

Speaker 1 Wait, can you play it on your phone real quick? Listen, I apologize. Whenever we're on the road, there's a lot that happens.
There's a lot that happens. There's just like things are moving.

Speaker 1 We were driving.

Speaker 1 We drove from Austin to Houston, Houston to Louisiana. We were playing golf.
We were doing all kinds of shit. So I apologize for missing this.
It's okay. Yeah.
So how does he mean a button? No,

Speaker 1 he seems like a groper.

Speaker 1 Not that's a friend. That's not accusatory, like more like a friendly groper.
Friendly adam. Yeah, right.
Congratulations. Jim Nance is a little older, so like they used to grope back.

Speaker 6 Yeah, it's like when an old man grabs your butt, it's not creepy.

Speaker 1 Right, it's not like he's assaulting anyone. It's just like he just gropes.

Speaker 6 I've had my butt grabbed by more people over the age of 70 than anybody else on this planet, I think.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 He's like a Biden hair sniffer. This is like a two-minute interview.
You can watch it in its entirety on my Twitter feed. I'll fast forward to the last 30 seconds.
The first

Speaker 1 minute, a minute and a half was me asking him about Jim Nance Week going straight from the Final Four to Augusta. Okay.
Things like that. And talking about the games, but.

Speaker 1 The Final Four and Straight.

Speaker 1 The Mini vest. The band started playing in the middle of the night.
Oh, no.

Speaker 6 For the full interview, you can look at Jake's Twitter account.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, he also dropped in. It's wild.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, we can't hear anything. Okay, so.
It'll get better. I'm proud of you, Jake.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. Well, have a great call this weekend.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I didn't hear anything. Keep doing it, man.
I'm proud of you for your career. There we go.
Okay. Did he know who you were?

Speaker 1 So it sounded like proud of you for your career. He just sees a guy in his 20s in a suit and he's like, you're just doing it right.

Speaker 6 Well,

Speaker 6 he's proud of you because you finished in the top 10. I'll explain the background.

Speaker 1 When I shook his hand and introduced myself, hi, my name is Jake Marsh,

Speaker 1 fellow play-by-play broadcaster. I went to Syracuse and I actually finished in the top 10 in your award.
I told you guys about this award when I interviewed you. Yes.
Did you dance the award?

Speaker 1 You finished ninth. I finished ninth.
There's a bunch of people who apply. Yeah, I covered nine pieces of African-American memorability.
Top 10. That is top 10.

Speaker 1 They rank the top 20 collegiate sportscasters in the country every year. I was just happy to be on the list.
So you finished in the first half.

Speaker 1 Of the ranked people. Yeah, 20.

Speaker 6 But it's like in college basketball, there's a top 25 ranking.

Speaker 1 Oh, there's a bunch of other terms

Speaker 6 that get ranked. Tons of them.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, gotcha. Like everybody at the bottom of the river.
Top 25, there's 300 30 people who

Speaker 1 are glad to be on the list. Service fly forever.
You're like the Indianapolis Colts, top 10.

Speaker 6 In other words, Jim Nance was like, I'm very proud of you for being the ninth most like me person in college broadcast in 2018.

Speaker 1 Did you say I went from top 10 to a job at the reputable Barstool Sports? I said I work at Barstool Sports. Okay, all right, good job, Jim Nance.
I like that. Yeah.
I mean, I'm a big Jim Nance guy.

Speaker 1 We would love to have him on the show. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 We'd love to be groped by Jim Nance. No.
Well, I would.

Speaker 1 All right, so you don't get the grope.

Speaker 6 You wouldn't let Jim Nance grab your butthole.

Speaker 1 No. No, no.

Speaker 1 I'm good with

Speaker 1 you. Touch your butt cheek.

Speaker 1 Accidentally one pinky into the

Speaker 1 He's going to cup a cheek. He told me he was proud of me.
I'll leave it. I'll leave it on.
We found a good way to ruin this moment for Jake.

Speaker 1 I'm proud of you, Jake. I'm proud of you.
Nance is hanging up.

Speaker 6 Maybe that means he's stepping into his nice

Speaker 6 post-woke after-career age

Speaker 6 where he can now finally let loose and be

Speaker 6 like, he's going to start a podcast.

Speaker 1 He's still doing golf in NFL. Okay, yeah, true.
True. So he's, wow, so that actually is

Speaker 1 the Final Four was always number three on his list.

Speaker 6 Maybe that's why

Speaker 1 that's why Tony Romo was always like, eh, because Gymnance is just getting up there. Yeah, he's got his hand.

Speaker 1 He's Jeff Dunham. He's just got his hand up there.
This will be his final travel from the Final Four to the Masters.

Speaker 6 Wow. End of an era.

Speaker 1 Who's taking over? I aneagle. Okay.
Fellow Syracuse. I need Eagle.
Who, wild fact here, who finished number one in the Gymnance project? He finished number two the next year because he's no, no, not.

Speaker 1 Wait. His son.
His son. Noah.
Noah. I was going to son Noah from Syracuse.

Speaker 6 That's wild because I and Eagle, his son, Noah Eagle, is also a broadcaster. Yeah.
Isn't that crazy?

Speaker 1 Look out for him on NBC and Big Ten. Yes, I will.
And Nickelodeon.

Speaker 6 Definitely look at Nickelodeon. And Nickelodeon.

Speaker 1 All right, so I and Eagle, that's a good replacement. Yes.
All right, so we got a little sidetracked, but the moment for Jim Nance was special. It was beautiful.
Were you a little touched?

Speaker 1 Not the groping thing, but touched. Yes.
Okay. Okay.

Speaker 1 The game. Let's talk about the game.
I wish Dusty May had paid more attention to our interview when I told him that when San Diego State gets down by like 7 to 10, you haven't won yet.

Speaker 6 Yeah, they were down by more than that.

Speaker 1 They were down by 14. Yeah.
So San Diego State.

Speaker 6 Well, they got out hot. San Diego State came out strong, and it looked like nobody was going to miss a shot on San Diego State.

Speaker 1 And same with FAU. So FAU, San Diego State, their last lead.
in the game until the buzzer beater was at 11.05 in the first half. That's when FAU had tied the game, I think, at 17.

Speaker 1 And from that point on until the last second, FAU was in control of the game.

Speaker 1 Felt like, I mean, they put up 40 in the first half, which San Diego State, I think that's only happened one other time this year.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So

Speaker 1 FAU felt like they were like everything they wanted to do was working.

Speaker 1 And then San Diego State, they just, they're so tough. They don't go away.
There was a couple calls, but who, you know, like the block call on Golden. He had a clear.

Speaker 6 That was a great block.

Speaker 1 That sucked. But San Diego State, credit to them because they're tough as nails.
And we get the first ever buzzer beater in the Final Four when the team shooting the ball was trailing.

Speaker 6 Yeah, it's crazy that it's taken this long because there are so many iconic buzzer beaters that happened in the Final Four or we think happened, but it's usually with a tie game or to tie the game at the end of regulation.

Speaker 6 But

Speaker 6 that was crazy to see that. San Diego State, this is justice for them.
San Diego State 2020. Yep.
They were very highly ranked.

Speaker 1 Them and Dayton were like the ones who got screwed them up.

Speaker 6 So they were going to be, i don't know what seed they would have been probably a one maybe a one seed so they canceled the tournament for covid this is san diego state's redemption arc they make it back they if they want any chance at all against yukon they have to make some foul shots my theory on san diego state number 13 and then i forget uh the other guy that was they were shooting a lot towards the end of the game bradley's their best scorer bradley so uh they're both too jacked up yeah because they live on the beach in san diego so they're like i got to have guns swole when i go outside all the time they're too strong and they don't have any touch on their foul shot.

Speaker 1 And that was the craziest part about the end of the game. So the final

Speaker 1 sequence, FAU,

Speaker 1 I don't know, I guess you probably don't have this play in your playbook.

Speaker 1 But if FAU, if Dusty May can learn anything from it, it's like figure out a play where if there's a six-second differential in the shot clock, shoot right before the shot clock and hope like and hope the rebound just gets batted around a bunch.

Speaker 1 Because what ended up happening is they get the ball back with 36 seconds. they're up by one

Speaker 1 they shoot with like 10 seconds left in the game five seconds left in the shot clock san diego state comes down no timeout brian dutcher afterwards said uh they asked him about it he said i ran out of plays which is awesome he's like i had no more plays to give them so and san diego state was in a defensive uh uh setup so they had their two leading scorers on the season matt bradley and darian trammel were on the bench and he's like fuck it let's just go.

Speaker 1 And then he comes down. Lamont Butler almost goes out of bounds.
Yeah, I thought he wasn't aware of the time. He didn't do anything until like two seconds ago.

Speaker 1 It felt like when watching that, that they weren't going to get a shot. Yeah.
And then he hits that buzzer beater. You have, did you hear the call afterwards? I haven't watched it in depth yet.

Speaker 1 Okay, because maybe one of

Speaker 1 Hall of Fame Orgasm in Our Ears by Bill Raftery. Oh, yes, I did hear that.
I want to play a few. He laid out after that, though.
Yeah, but it was, it was, here's, here's the final sequence.

Speaker 1 Put down by Minson. They have the one time out.
They're going to take it enough. They don't have the scores on the floor.
It's Butler in two seconds. He's got to come up.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Who's played that part again?

Speaker 1 Just a beautiful organ.

Speaker 1 I love Raftery. He's the best.

Speaker 1 Well, I wish those moments, I know that it's not, it's like uncouth in broadcasting to have the second guy make a noise there, but that was what it was like that's march like it was a final four buzzer beater that was all of our reactions we all were like holy shit he just did this you need that guy in in the threesome though because you've got nance again class personified grant hill class personified and then you need raftery to be like oh yeah

Speaker 1 oh man it also i have some wild stuff for you ready for it

Speaker 1 Brian Dutcher didn't call a timeout. Now, he had a timeout.
Brian Dutcher was also on the coaching staff for the most famous timeout ever, Chris Weber.

Speaker 1 When he was coaching under Steve Fisher at Michigan, Steve Fisher, legendary coach at Michigan, gets fired from Michigan for NCAA sanctions, all this stuff, goes to San Diego State, stays there forever, hands it off to Brian Dutcher, who has been waiting forever.

Speaker 1 I think he's 63 years old. Basically, everything that Steve Fisher built at Michigan with the Fab 5, now in today's 2023 NCAA, is allowed.

Speaker 1 and like the whole thing has come full circle where it's like those guys imagine how much money the the fab five would have made yeah nil it would have been crazy and now they're in the steve fisher's there i think his son has als who he's he's part of the coaching staff like great story it's just all that brian dutcher waiting he was an assistant for 30 plus years you know grinding it out and now he's here and they're in the their championship game on monday night like dream run it's just it's why you watch sports it's these type of stories where like you have the guy who's been working his whole life, and San Diego State gets robbed in 2020, and now they're here and ready to take down UConn.

Speaker 1 Maybe

Speaker 6 it's so funny to think about what used to be recruiting violations and how heavily they were punished, like they were breaking the law at Michigan.

Speaker 6 When you think back to Bruce Pearl getting fired because he cooked a burger for one of his kids, pretty much.

Speaker 6 And now it's like, well, that's nothing. That's nothing.
A kid would laugh at you if you offered him a burger. He'd be like, where's my wagu steak? Yes.
So the game has shifted entirely.

Speaker 6 The game really changed in the second half because the San Diego State student section. Yeah.
They started building a cup snake. They did.

Speaker 6 Which is another thing that's completely different about the Final Four. You used to not be able to drink beer at these games.

Speaker 6 Now you've got the San Diego State Bros slugging Coors Lights, building a giant beer snake, willing their team to victory, come from behind. Solid effort from the Aztec fans.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Very, I mean, it was an incredible comeback, incredible moment. I can't can't believe that it was the first.
We've had buzzer beaters in the Final Four.

Speaker 1 We've never had a buzzer beater where the team that was trailing hit the buzzer beater. So we've had the Chris Jenkins game was tied.

Speaker 1 The famous NC State one against Houston, the Jim Valvano, that was a tie game.

Speaker 6 What was the Christian Leitner one?

Speaker 1 Christian Leitner was a tie game as well.

Speaker 1 So they're all like, they were all tie games. I don't know if Leitner, that wasn't Final Four, I don't think.

Speaker 6 That was to get to the Final Four? Yeah, that was over in Kentucky.

Speaker 1 Yeah. There was another one, I think, Marquette in like 77, I believe, was the other one.
Yeah, 92 Elite 8. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Also, I will say, this is back-to-back games in that venue. Yes.

Speaker 6 Buzzer Beaters.

Speaker 1 Because Chris Jenkins, 2016, ended that tournament. Wild.
Good point. Back-to-back Buzzer Beaters.

Speaker 6 Well, there have been other games since then.

Speaker 1 Not in that venue, college basketball. Yeah, in Houston?

Speaker 1 No, seven years. I don't think they played in our NRG stadium yet.

Speaker 1 Phoenix in 17, San Antonio 18, Minneapolis, 19, nothing in 20. 21 was the bubble, and 22 was

Speaker 1 New Orleans. That is wild.

Speaker 6 It's also cool walking in NRG Stadium because it's right next to the Astrodome. Yes.
And they should open up the Astrodome to like creepy sleepovers.

Speaker 1 And high school sports. Yeah.

Speaker 6 Or you should be able to break into the Astrodome and just rummage through it like a post-apocalyptic wolves rummaging through like a garage sale.

Speaker 6 You should be able to take whatever you want out of the Astrodome.

Speaker 1 I understand why they tear down old stadiums, but I wish they kept up more old stadiums.

Speaker 6 Yeah, you sign a waiver.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Like the Silver Dome has, I think, has now been fully taken down, but that should have stayed up and they should have, I know it doesn't make sense because it's tax money, all that shit.

Speaker 1 Don't tell me that. I don't care.
That should like the

Speaker 1 Michigan high school football championship be played at Silverdome every year. Yep.
Like that would be cool if those old stadiums still had a purpose.

Speaker 1 But yeah, the Astro Dome, because it's crazy to think that was the state-of-the-art dome in whatever it was, 70s, maybe even late 60s when it was built. And it just dwarfs in size compared to NRG.

Speaker 6 It is crazy. That was a great game, though.
It was a fantastic first.

Speaker 6 It wasn't a great game, but the ending was fantastic. It was good.

Speaker 1 It was a good first, in the first half, people were like, this is a much better game than people thought. Yeah,

Speaker 1 they loosened up the risk,

Speaker 6 which was great.

Speaker 1 Yes. Also, shout out to FAA.
What a season. Yeah, so FAA.
And they could all be back. Yeah, so Dusty May signed an extension, which was cool.
I think they invested some more money in the program.

Speaker 1 I think all their guys. All five starters are eligible to come back.

Speaker 1 The first guy who recruited Forrest, I think we talked about him last week. He was the only senior.
So, yeah, NIL would be the only thing that could

Speaker 1 guys away.

Speaker 1 Where else would you want to be besides Boco? Like, I understand there's bigger programs. Like, you're not going to be in a better place to live.
Yeah. And they won, what was their final 35-4? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Insane season. Dusty May, hell of a coach.
Do draw up that play, Dusty May, if we ever have him back on.

Speaker 1 I swear it would work. If there's six seconds differential,

Speaker 1 I know that San Diego State had a timeout, so they could call a timeout.

Speaker 1 But if you just get a ball on the rim as the shot clock is expiring, it probably isn't like, and it's batted around even a little bit.

Speaker 1 You're in the championship game.

Speaker 6 Well, is there a play that you can possibly run that's kind of like when players try to get their own triple-double at the end of a game? Yeah, just chuck it off.

Speaker 6 Where you drive to the hole and somehow you lay it up off the rim and intentionally catch it and then kick it out. Yeah, you don't even try to score or just throw it as hard as you can off the rim.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and just hope the ball bounces around enough that time expires.

Speaker 6 Just slam it against the rim. Yeah, this is a great idea.
We should be basketball coaches.

Speaker 2 We should be basketball coaches.

Speaker 1 All right. So,

Speaker 1 Jake,

Speaker 1 I'll get your full March Madness take after we talk about the next game. Let's talk about the next game.
UConn completely destroys Miami.

Speaker 1 I know that the final score was maybe a little bit closer to 10.

Speaker 1 But they were never in the game. If they were 9-0, the starter destroyer.
Miami never had a lead. There was a couple spurts that Miami had where, you know, it was like, uh-oh, watch out for Miami.

Speaker 1 And UConn completely squashed that. They are on.

Speaker 1 a dominant, dominant run. So a couple stats.

Speaker 1 One is they're 16-0 against non-conference opponents crazy they just held so they played back to back miami was the fifth rated offense in ken pom they held them to 59 points they also were they were scoring 79.1 points per game gonzaga was the first offense in ken palm they were scoring 86.1 points per game they scored 54.

Speaker 1 so they were hold they held their last two opponents to 20 plus points 30 for gonzaga less than their season average they also are the fifth team to enter the national championship game that has won every single game on their path by double digits.

Speaker 1 So 2000 Michigan, 2001 Duke, 2009 UNC, 2016 UNC, 2018 Villanova, 2016 UNC, the only one to not win the title. Chris Jenkins shot.
Yeah. And remember the 2018 Villanova team, like that was

Speaker 1 just dominated absolutely everyone. And then Sunogo is the fourth player in 40 years to average 20 points with 65% shooting.

Speaker 6 Crazy. Yeah.
And he did it on Ramadan. He's yeah, he's he was with a late sunset in central time.

Speaker 1 They have so many options on offense and defense, and like they can play inside, they can play outside, they hit all their big shots. It's they are on just an absolute tear of a run.

Speaker 1 They also are going for the point differential crown, so they're plus 103 right now in the tournament. The

Speaker 1 UNC was plus 104. The only three teams better.
UNC in 2009, plus 104. Kentucky 96, plus 120.
Duke, 99, plus 126. Duke 99 lost to UConn.

Speaker 1 Editor's note, in 2016, Villanova had a point differential of plus 121, which is also higher than UConn's point differential in 2023.

Speaker 6 So it might be a foregone conclusion that UConn's going to win this.

Speaker 1 I think most stats are pointing to this.

Speaker 6 They're saying that they're going to win. I'll just say, I'll count this.
I won't use the Mickey Mouse word if they beat Miami and Dan Hurley's son scores a point.

Speaker 6 That's my bar for victory.

Speaker 1 That's the true victory for Andrew Hurley.

Speaker 6 Shout out to Andrew Hurley. Get him in the game.
Get him a good look, coach. Draw something up for him.
But yeah, UConn's been utterly dominant.

Speaker 6 There was a point in the game where Miami got it back to 10. And every time they would get it back to 10, the crowd was like so energized because that felt like a tie.
Yeah.

Speaker 6 Just being within 10 points of UConn. I know they shaved it a little bit closer after that at one point, but it would just be like, okay, they'd battle back to 10.

Speaker 6 And then 20 seconds later, UConn would be up 16.

Speaker 1 And I know that people will be like, well, UConn's path has not been as difficult because Miami did play the toughest path going to.

Speaker 6 You play who you play.

Speaker 1 Right. You play who you play.

Speaker 6 Don't apologize.

Speaker 1 Also, this is revisionist history because everyone said, Gonzaga, they're playing lights out. Arkansas had just beaten Kansas.
St. Mary's was one of those teams everyone was looking out for.

Speaker 1 And you beat them all by double digits. And none of the games have even been like a sweat.
Like they haven't, besides Iona. Shout out Rick Petino.

Speaker 1 He was the only, like the first half against Iona was probably the only time that UConn was sweating even a little bit.

Speaker 6 He was the score at halftime in that game. I think they were down two.

Speaker 1 Yeah. One or two.
But that's how dominant they have been.

Speaker 1 And it's been incredible to watch. And I actually read an article, I think it was in The Athletic.
It was like, this UConn team is so good. Dan Hurley only swore once during this game.

Speaker 1 It was like talking about how Zen he is now. And it's like, no, he's still a psycho.
He just trusts these guys so much that he doesn't have to be as much of a psycho.

Speaker 6 Yeah, he's wearing his lucky underwear every game.

Speaker 6 His wife was like, Yeah, I don't know. I can't convince him not to wear it, but he's putting on the same pair of underwear for every single game.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 6 he's definitely washing it, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 yeah. I would hope so.
And then, didn't you, wasn't that the ref that he had? Jeff Anderson, which we talked about, which you guys talked about in the interview. Fucking clown.
Called him that

Speaker 1 December 28th against Villanova, and they paired him

Speaker 1 fucking clown. Budging clown.
Oh,

Speaker 1 but to piggyback off what you guys were talking about, Andrew Hurley. To put it in perspective, the Walcons, he has played in all five tournament games.
Yes, right. He played in two big East games.

Speaker 1 Right. He's played in five straight games because they've all been blocked.

Speaker 6 They're shit pumping everybody. They're just a goddamn wagon.

Speaker 1 Walgons hope to play one tournament game. You got to play in all five.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's been, I think that as chaotic as this tournament has been, and there's been a lot of hand-wringing, like college basketball sucks now because FAU and San Diego State got there, which shut up.

Speaker 1 We had Butler and VCU in 2011. Everyone remembers that fondly.
So I don't really understand the difference. But if they can finish this run, we will remember it as UConn's tournament and

Speaker 1 how much they just absolutely crushed everyone.

Speaker 6 I think in a weird way, that's very good for the sport to have a dominant team one year. Yeah.
Because then you think back and you just, like you said, it's UConn. That was the year of UConn.

Speaker 1 And 16 years against non-conference opponents. Dan Hurley has said it.
Like once they got out of the Big East schedule,

Speaker 1 everything became a lot easier. And that has proven to be correct so far.

Speaker 6 And we're officially crowning UConn of Blue Blood if they win this championship, right?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 6 I don't know how you can argue otherwise.

Speaker 1 They'd have five championships in the last 24 years. We are a Hurley podcast.
We have Bobby Hurley coming up, which was a great interview. And then as for Miami, I mean, incredible season.

Speaker 1 Jim Larinega seems like one of the most likable guys in the sport. I do not understand how Nigel Pack only had one pair of shoes.
We had Shoegate in the middle of the game.

Speaker 1 That was the manager, AWL, who ran and got the shoes. Are we saying ran?

Speaker 1 It was like a brisk walk.

Speaker 6 Yeah. He did like an acceptable walk.
He hustled.

Speaker 1 He hustled. He hustled.
He hustled.

Speaker 6 He did an acceptable walk for someone, a run who's someone that's not an athlete. Right.

Speaker 1 It's like when someone says, like, run over here to me, I'll like move my arms really fast. But you don't want to look like I'm running, but I'm not.
He hustled. And I still don't understand.

Speaker 1 Jason Hicks. Kane's Hooch.
Shout out to Manager. Jason Hicks.
I don't understand how Nigel Pack only had one pair of shoes. Yeah.
How is that possible?

Speaker 6 I don't know. I don't don't know how many pairs of shoes college kids travel with.
I don't know how many they have in the locker room.

Speaker 1 At least two, I'd hope.

Speaker 6 Yeah, it was, I need to, I need somebody to tell me how much hit. Was it Nike? Was it a pair of Nike? It was Adidas.

Speaker 1 Adidas.

Speaker 6 What stock hit did Adidas take because his shoes broke down?

Speaker 1 It was, I mean, that, Miami was never winning that game, but to have him on the sideline because he didn't have a pair of shoes is just an insane thing to have happen during this national semifinal game.

Speaker 6 Yeah. In a game like that, you keep hoping and waiting for a run.
You keep hoping that Miami's going to really get it close and that we'll have something to root for going down the stretch.

Speaker 6 But that's just UConn's not going to give that up. UConn's too good.

Speaker 1 Nope. Nope.
Jake, are you finding it? It's Adidas, I believe. I'm trying to confirm.
I believe it's Adidas.

Speaker 6 We are really going hard on Yukon here.

Speaker 6 But I honestly, I don't see a way that San Diego State beats them. If they do, would this be the most shocking upset in NCAA tournament history?

Speaker 1 You'd probably have to go with... yeah, I think they're sponsored by Adidas.

Speaker 6 Besides Fairleigh Dickinson.

Speaker 1 I mean, you'd probably have to go with the Villanova versus Georgetown, right? Like, that was 85.

Speaker 1 That was, I think that was like a 10-point point spread. Yeah, I mean, that was, but yes, it would be up there.
It would absolutely be up there. Yeah, in terms of championships, really fucking good.

Speaker 1 They are. They are really, really good.
And I don't think,

Speaker 1 obviously, I want UConn to win, but

Speaker 1 for my own wallet, but I do think, like, I wouldn't be shocked if we're watching this game on Monday night and it is a close game. Listen, at the end of the day, it's the tournament.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so like anything can happen. Yeah, three lights out for a game.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 So, I just need, you know, what I would like is just to have like some doubt in my head going into it.

Speaker 6 I would like if, even if it was a fake report came out that said UConn's players all have the flu today, I just want somebody say William Hawkins, who, by the way, had a wedgie, interviewed him about that.

Speaker 1 By the way, kind of putting us all at risk because you did interview him.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so sorry.

Speaker 1 That was the first thing that came to my head. Did you wear a mask?

Speaker 6 It was like six inches from his face.

Speaker 1 And you had to get the answers that people wanted. You weren't masked up.
You got to get the flu.

Speaker 1 I'm putting myself at risk for the answers.

Speaker 2 For the answer.

Speaker 6 So he was sick, but he then wasn't sick during the time.

Speaker 1 I think it was non-COVID illness. Yeah, no, he was fine.
I mean,

Speaker 1 everyone's like, is he going to play? Oh, my God. It's like, dude, it's a final force.

Speaker 6 My entire life is a non-COVID illness.

Speaker 1 He said that wedgies are more embarrassing than airballs, which

Speaker 1 I was surprised by.

Speaker 6 That's a big surprise. I disagree.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Same.
The only reason that you could say, you could make the argument that it is, is because the game stops. So everyone's like, because of your body.

Speaker 6 What the fuck, dude? Well, if the crowd comes up with a wedgie chant that they all yell simultaneously at you like they do for an airball, then I'll start to believe it.

Speaker 6 But until that happens, I think the airball is the worst thing you can do.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Also, airballs can go out of bounds.
Airballs can go out of bounds. That's true.
That's a fact.

Speaker 1 All right, so Jake.

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Speaker 1 What do you got for do you think? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, this is obviously being recorded before the champion is crowd.

Speaker 1 But, like, the three big takeaways from this, if UConn finished it off, their dominant performance will be remembered forever. This tournament had an all-time upset.

Speaker 1 This tournament had an all-time shot or two with Furman and last night with SDSU. So you have the small moments, you have the big upset, and if UConn wins, it's total dominance.

Speaker 1 Like there's plenty of takeaways from this tournament, no matter how it ends.

Speaker 1 When you think of 2023 NCA tournament, FDU, Furman, UConn, San Diego State Buzzer Read in the final four.

Speaker 6 Are you as confident as we are in UConn?

Speaker 1 I think on paper, yes, but like I said, the tournament's the tournament. And that's the only thing where I'm a little hesitant.

Speaker 6 The fact that the tournament is the tournament.

Speaker 1 Right. Because just as you are sure about something, the other thing happens.
Yeah. Like, it's one game.

Speaker 6 Would you eat your column if you got?

Speaker 6 Or would you eat this podcast?

Speaker 1 Sure.

Speaker 6 We'll eat this podcast.

Speaker 1 So we'll get it on a chip. We'll have a Jake logo.
No, no, we'll get it. No, no, no.

Speaker 6 We'll get it put on a chip.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we'll get it on an edible chip.

Speaker 6 On an SD card.

Speaker 1 Okay, we'll make it edible, though. I don't want to get sick.
Yes,

Speaker 6 it'll totally be edible for sure.

Speaker 1 We have to take that.

Speaker 1 So if you will, we'll give you an edible chip.

Speaker 6 A super edible microchip that you'll then have to swallow and pass.

Speaker 1 If SDSE wins. Yes.
Okay. All right.
Great.

Speaker 6 Jake will eat this podcast.

Speaker 1 Yes. Yes.
Eat his whole. You guys will be upset too.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, I'll be very upset. I will be very, very upset.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Nothing against San Diego State personally. It's just business.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I would like to win a future at some point in my life. This tournament, you had small moments, you had big moments.
Yeah, no, I think it's been fantastic. Delivers every year.
And

Speaker 1 I just never understand like people just show up in March and they're like, this product sucks. Go watch something else then.

Speaker 6 I don't care. Yeah, I don't, honestly, I don't think that San Diego is going to be that upset.
I don't think they listen to podcasts in San Diego.

Speaker 1 We had some memes and I when we were up top. We had some San Diego safe fans saying what's up to us.
And shout out to Coach Velasquez, assistant coach of San Diego State. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He said,

Speaker 1 he does listen. Yeah, that's true.
Yeah. He said, I don't know what was more likely.
SDSU making the final four or Hank getting the lottery ball. And

Speaker 1 I said, well, here we are in the final four.

Speaker 6 Some of us predicted San Diego State to go to the final four.

Speaker 1 That's true.

Speaker 6 On this side of the table, I've never once predicted Hank would get the lottery ball.

Speaker 1 That's true. Also,

Speaker 6 I think it's way more unlikely that Hank gets the lottery ball.

Speaker 1 Also true.

Speaker 1 All right, should we talk a little women's championship games? So LSU, congrats to them. Kim Mulkey showing up in her Tiger

Speaker 1 business suit, I guess it was.

Speaker 6 Yeah, no, she looked great.

Speaker 6 When I was looking at her, I was like, that looks like if Amy Poehler played Adriana from the Sopranos.

Speaker 1 Yes, I like that.

Speaker 1 All right, would.

Speaker 6 Yeah. Just hand up.
Wood. Kim Mulkey.

Speaker 1 Yeah. LSU.
LSU was fantastic, by the way. They dominated that game.
I know there was some ref stuff, which one of them was the Caitlin Clark technical foul was absolutely bullshit.

Speaker 6 It was insane. She threw the ball behind her back.
It went out of bounds. Nobody tuned into that game to watch the refs.
We tuned in to watch Kim Mulkey's outfits.

Speaker 6 But no, Kim was like on the court, getting in the way of the refs. And then they give Caitlin Clark a technical foul for throwing the ball out of bounds behind her back.

Speaker 6 Not even while looking at the refs, she wasn't like showing off the ref. She was just throwing it out of bounds.

Speaker 6 And the worst part about that play, it was at the exact same time that Zanino got her fourth personal foul.

Speaker 6 They're big, they're center, and she's dominant when she's got the ball in her hands in the paint. She got her fourth foul, and then simultaneously, Caitlin Clark gets teed up for her fourth foul.

Speaker 6 And then at that point, the comeback, if it had any chance whatsoever, it was over. But all the credit goes to LSU in the first half.
They shot nine for 12 from three, from the first half.

Speaker 6 And they were a shitty, shitty three-point team in this tournament coming into this game. And they went 9 for 12 in the first half.
They were hitting bank shots.

Speaker 6 Carson came off the bench and had, I think she was 5 for 5 from 3.

Speaker 1 Well, they basically, Iowa on Friday night beat.

Speaker 1 uh you know south carolina by daring them to take threes yeah it was undefeated yeah and packing the paint and it seemed like that was kind of what they were doing again and lsu was like no we'll take these threes yeah we need to figure out a way because i mean the lsu was going to win regardless of what the refs were going to do because they were that good.

Speaker 1 But they did suck.

Speaker 6 But the refs were awful. They called, I think it was 10 more personal fouls in this championship game than any other women's championship game in history.

Speaker 6 It was bad. It was bad officiating from start to finish.
And it kind of did go both ways. They had some bullshit calls against Iowa, too, or on Iowa.
They had bullshit calls on Iowa and on LSU.

Speaker 6 So it wasn't exactly one-sided, but it did seem that they, giving their two best players four fouls at the same time, pushed it over the edge.

Speaker 1 And it felt like one of the biggest championship games in the women's tournament. We also get the after effect of people arguing class online.
So, Angelo Reese is that

Speaker 1 Angel Reese for LSU, as clock was expiring, went and did the John Cena, You Can't See Me, and then pointed to a ring finger in Caitlin Clark's face.

Speaker 1 And then everyone erupted in having a is this classless

Speaker 1 way to stay classy?

Speaker 1 This is bullshit Debate online.

Speaker 1 I want to hear your take, PFT, but I'll just say point blank: if you are genuinely calling things classless and getting upset and saying class, like get some class, you've already kind of lost.

Speaker 6 Yeah, if you say stay classy in the year 2023,

Speaker 6 go back to 2009 and then use that phrase. It's sports.
You just won the championship. You're allowed to show as little class as you want.
That's the one time when you can do anything.

Speaker 6 You can dump a Gatorade Gatorade bucket on your coach and you can ruin their clothes. That's still very class.
There's no such thing as classless and classy at that time.

Speaker 6 You're allowed to celebrate however you want because guess what? You just won.

Speaker 6 Now, I do think that doing the John Cena motion at a time when you just put another team season to death, there's a time and a place for that.

Speaker 6 Maybe we shouldn't make a joke about that in that given situation. But I thought it was awesome.
Caitlin Clark did it when she won.

Speaker 6 So that's the thing about having like a signature celebration where you might be a little bit disrespectful to your opponent.

Speaker 6 If you put it out there, good for you, but then you're also not allowed to be mad when somebody does that to you.

Speaker 1 It's if you shit talk and you have something that you're doing to someone else and then the, and then it turns on you and you lose a game, you have to expect it coming back to you.

Speaker 1 Now, Angela Reese, it was a little weird how she like stalked Caitlin Clark around. And here's why.
Because it was as the clock was ticking down and her teammates were all celebrating.

Speaker 1 That like, go celebrate with your team. Don't, you know, follow a player around.
But in terms of classy, who the fuck cares? Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's sports. You shit talk, you get shit talk.
It all happens. I bet you Caitlyn Clark had no problem with it.

Speaker 1 I actually think this is a win, though, for women's basketball because seeing all these people upset online, that's just fans upset that their team lost. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so they're, and if they're upset, their team lost, they cared enough.

Speaker 1 And that's good for women's basketball because at the end of the day, it's kind of like, what was the other one we were talking about? Oh, Creighton fans. Like,

Speaker 1 we know how this game works. If you are a sports fan, you are psycho.
And I count myself as one. We're all, we're all sports fans in this room.
You're psycho.

Speaker 1 When you have a bad loss, when you have a demoralizing moment, you act irrationally, you act angry, you lash out. Those things happen.

Speaker 1 So I don't think anyone who's calling their classes right now, like, I'm not going to be like, oh my God, how could you? It's just how they're coping. And I bet you

Speaker 1 tomorrow when they wake up or a week from now, they'll be like, yeah, that was kind of dumb that I argued online for like two hours about class of a fucking you can't see me motion.

Speaker 6 Listen, we are a very pro-woman podcast on this show.

Speaker 6 We love women. I love women.
Yes. And over the years, my favorite child is a woman.
There you go. My mom, some of my best moms are women.

Speaker 6 Over the years, there's been a discussion in women's sports because it has been underrepresented sometimes. You don't get to watch as much of it on TV.

Speaker 6 There's been a good conversation about just supporting women's athletics. Now we're making the next step where we stop cheering for every team and we're like, I fucking hate that check.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 6 Which I actually think is good because we're having the debate about it like we would about men's sports.

Speaker 1 It was the moment that it hit me was Friday night when I read the tweet of someone saying,

Speaker 1 I was a bunch of pussies for packing the paint on South Carolina. And I was like, yes, this is good.

Speaker 1 We're just

Speaker 1 calling random people pussies just because we're mad how they're playing defense. Like this is this is the next step.
Some of the women just irrationally angry online about the women's tournament.

Speaker 1 That's great. Yes.

Speaker 6 One of the best ways to truly support women's sports is by hating women that are playing on a team that's playing against your favorite team. Yes.

Speaker 1 Yes. Exactly.
So get very upset about your team losing. Yeah.
Or very happy when your team wins.

Speaker 6 It's called fandom and having rivalries like that is great for the sport.

Speaker 1 Agreed. Agreed.
So shout out the women. Caitlin Clark was incredible.
I mean,

Speaker 1 that tournament run, I saw the stats. She scored more points, I think, in the NCAA tournament than Iowa's football offense this year.

Speaker 1 She back-to-back 40s.

Speaker 6 That's an unbelievable stat.

Speaker 1 Yeah, back-to-back 40s. What'd she have today, like 33? Yeah, 30?

Speaker 6 All-time record.

Speaker 1 She was awesome. And she's got two more years, right? She might get to the WNBA.

Speaker 6 I think so. I don't know.
She might make more money having NIL at Iowa.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay, but COVID.
Maybe two more years.

Speaker 6 Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
So she, credit to Kim Mulkey for, I'm sure she pointed out to the refs before the game, because they were calling it very strictly,

Speaker 6 her push-off move that she does to get open for a three sometimes off the dribble. They were calling that against her.

Speaker 6 I think she got two of those called in the first half, and Kim Mulkey looked like she was having a seizure. She was so happy when they called that.
Yes. But I mean,

Speaker 6 that was probably the difference right there is getting her into foul trouble early and getting Zanino into foul trouble early. And then

Speaker 6 their third score,

Speaker 6 hitting shots for the wing. I forget, but she was in foul trouble too.
It was, I think they had like

Speaker 6 four starters that were in severe foul trouble with about like nine, ten minutes left. Yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker 1 Like at a start of the fourth quarter championship.

Speaker 6 It did take some of the shine off.

Speaker 1 The technical being her fourth was a big factor too. Yeah, yeah, I mean, that was the worst technical.

Speaker 6 But you knew that it was ball to lie because Reese went up there and she breaked the two technical free shows.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, let's do who's back of the week. Then we got Bobby Hurley.
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Speaker 1 Okay, who's who's back of the week? PFT. No, let's start with Jake because Hank's not here.

Speaker 1 Which we'll get to later. After we finish this, you can go do the Titus show.
Okay. And I

Speaker 1 want Max. We're going to have Max in the middle for after Bobby Hurley because we have a question for him.
Perfect. Okay.
All right. My Who's Back of the Week is peace, labor peace.

Speaker 1 The NBA has a new labor deal and a CBA, and there's some things that are notable. Shit, that I want to back.
God damn it. Oh, I'll take another one.
No, no, go for it. Go for it.
Go, go, go, go, go.

Speaker 1 I'll add on to it.

Speaker 1 So, things we need to be

Speaker 1 paying attention to. Games played for minimum for awards.
Players have to play 65 games to be eligible to win MVP. I like it.
So, load management, we might not be seeing that as much.

Speaker 6 The 65 most important games of your season. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Another one, an in-season tournament. Boo.

Speaker 1 But, okay.

Speaker 1 I don't like change as a person. Just point blank, don't like change.
Anything that changes like day to day, I'm like, oh, this sucks. Like when I have to get on a flight, I'm like, fuck this.

Speaker 1 I want to sit on my couch. Change sucks.
And then I always go somewhere and I have fun.

Speaker 1 I hate this, but I think it will probably be good.

Speaker 6 Yeah. So what are the benefits to winning?

Speaker 1 It counts regular season games. Right.
So there's, so when each team gets a half a million per player, that's the incentive. So half a million per player.

Speaker 1 It's pool play in November and December, and then they get to a final eight, and then they play a tournament. Final four neutral site in Vegas.
Yeah, so final eight, then the final four.

Speaker 1 It was the winner would only have to play one extra game.

Speaker 1 It will, it essentially, the NBA was like, how can we make it so that LeBron gets more rings so he can feel like he's better than Jordan? Let's make a made-up trophy in the middle.

Speaker 1 It's kind of like the Maui or Battleflur Atlantis. Yeah.
It bounce. You get a trophy.
Yeah, I think you're probably the same with me, PFT.

Speaker 6 You're like, this is stupid. I don't like it.
I don't like it. Now, however, if a team that I'm rooting for wins that tournament, then I'm going to be like, hang the banner up.

Speaker 6 Some would say that it's harder to win the mid-season tournament than the end-season.

Speaker 1 Right. And essentially, like, don't like change, but when it starts happening, the NBA season, regular season is long.
It's boring at times. It means nothing at times.

Speaker 1 So this will be something in the middle of the season where you're like, oh, this means something a little different.

Speaker 6 Well, that's exactly what this is. It's the NBA admitting that their regular season is way too long.

Speaker 1 Correct.

Speaker 6 It's like, why don't we have two playoffs? That's two seasons.

Speaker 1 They have admitted that and then added an extra game. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 There's free agent spending changes and also

Speaker 1 marijuana is no longer prohibited.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 No more road tests. Okay.
Yeah. And you said one and done.
One and done stays.

Speaker 1 I didn't read that. Which is the funniest thing that people always blame colleges for.
Yeah. It's like that's the NBA rule.

Speaker 6 Isn't it also a rule now that players can do advertisements for cannabis companies and for gambling companies?

Speaker 1 Or did I get April fooled on that? I think you got April fooled i don't know it's from shams i feel like shams is not

Speaker 6 shams not an april fool guy right if you're shams or if you're a shefter and you put out a semi-believable report like that

Speaker 1 yeah

Speaker 1 i think it might be a real report it might maybe that would be cool

Speaker 6 i've always said the nba needs more weed in it yeah now that you're so gone i see some gambling talk but yeah

Speaker 1 Shams. League's new CBA will give players the ability to invest in NBA and WNBA teams as well as promote and or invest in sports betting and cannabis companies.
Okay. And that's the real Shams.
Wow.

Speaker 1 That's the real Shams.

Speaker 6 That seems like a big deal to me.

Speaker 1 That is that they'll be able to promote gambling. Yes.

Speaker 1 Okay, PFT, your who's back.

Speaker 6 My who's back of the week is Brooks Kipka.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 6 Brooks, shout out Brooks. He won.
He's hot. He's the hottest golfer in the world going into Masters Week.
He's back. He won on the Live Tour.

Speaker 6 He battled off Patrick Reed to finish first place in Orlando. So shout out Brooks.
Also,

Speaker 1 it sounds like the Live Tour,

Speaker 6 they're making this into an us versus them thing a little bit because they said today that at Augusta, if a Live golfer wins, I also heard, by the way, that Liv is taking an idea that we did an interview with Shane Bacon, and we talked to him a little bit about the Live versus PGA.

Speaker 6 And we talked about the idea that the Live Tour could give just like an added bonus purse if one of their golfers wins Augusta. I think that's happening.
I think the Live Tour is actually doing that.

Speaker 6 But also, they said, Greg Norman said, if a Liv golfer wins the Masters, all 17 other members will be on the 18th green making an appearance to congratulate them. Look at that.

Speaker 6 Patrick Reed, great teammate showing up for everybody.

Speaker 1 No way if Phil Mickelson misses the cut, he'll be there. No, they're bouncing.
Yeah, they're bouncing. Yeah, so Brooks is back.

Speaker 1 For some reason, people think that we have a beef with Brooks. We definitely don't.

Speaker 6 No, I'm rooting for Brooks. We're rooting for him.

Speaker 1 We're not only rooting for him. We were actually going to have him on.

Speaker 1 We have a Masters preview coming Wednesday with Shane Bacon, like PFT said, and also a pump-up for Max Homo, who's going to be on the show. We tried to get Brooks on for it.

Speaker 1 He, his schedule didn't work out because we were traveling on Thursday, and his only day open was Thursday. But he texted me, he said he's coming on whenever.

Speaker 1 So, hopefully, he wins the Masters and we can have him on right after. Or if not, we'll have him on in the following weeks.

Speaker 6 It would be good for golf if Brooks won.

Speaker 1 Max and Brooks in the final group.

Speaker 6 That'd be amazing. Well, I don't know.
I'd have to wear like a split jersey like Mrs. Kelsey.
Yeah, I don't know. You can't cook those up.
Don't make me choose.

Speaker 6 I have another who's back of the week. Okay.
Aaron Hernandez. Oh.
Uh-oh. Uh-oh.
No, it's his brother this time, Dennis Hernandez. So Dennis Hernandez.

Speaker 1 Is that the one that sold a play sheet?

Speaker 6 I'm not sure if he did or not. That doesn't sound like the Dennis I know.

Speaker 1 One that stole a play sheet that, like, kind of ruled. Like, they left their play sheet and he just took it.

Speaker 6 Yeah, you should do that. Yeah.
You should do that. Don't leave your play sheet out.
But Dennis Hernandez, he's up in Bristol, Connecticut.

Speaker 6 He took an Uber to ESPN headquarters and then threw a brick through the window. Yes.
And on the brick,

Speaker 6 he wrote a note to all media members, it's about time you realize, spelled R-E-A-L-E-Y-E-S. Realize.
Realize, realize, realize the effect media has on all family members.

Speaker 6 Since you're a worldwide leader, maybe you could lead how media and messages are delivered brick by brick. Because it was on a brick.

Speaker 1 Clean it up. Shut up, brick watches.

Speaker 6 And then he signed it, yours truly, Dennis J. Hernandez.

Speaker 1 Okay, so.

Speaker 6 And then somehow they tracked down the guy that did this.

Speaker 1 Whoa, so

Speaker 6 excellent police work by the Bristol Police Department. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'll just counterpoint real quick.

Speaker 1 Murders also have an impact on people's families.

Speaker 6 In the real world. In the real world.

Speaker 1 Like, I'll just say that. Like that,

Speaker 1 those people who have lost a loved one,

Speaker 1 yeah, that definitely has an impact.

Speaker 6 Multiple murders.

Speaker 1 Yes, multiple murders. Allegedly.

Speaker 6 Yeah. Actually, no, he was never...

Speaker 1 Wasn't it overturned?

Speaker 6 I'm pretty sure he was convicted. Yeah, but I think it gets overturned because he was in the process of appealing it.

Speaker 6 So the fact that he offed himself means that his trial was never concluded.

Speaker 1 Got it.

Speaker 6 It was a hung jury. Got it.
Got it. Oh.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So

Speaker 1 Aaron Hernandez.

Speaker 6 The Hernandez family is back.

Speaker 1 It's back at long last.

Speaker 1 All right. I don't have a who's back because Jake stole mine.
No, that's okay. Stop apologizing.

Speaker 6 But I have more.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to talk about the Lakers. Oh, what are they? Oh, yeah.
They are climbing up the West. This is a very ESPN thing to do if the Lakers win a game.
Are the the Lakers a threat?

Speaker 6 My Timberwolves choked a 17th-point favorites to the Blazers. Tough.
And they lost. Tough.

Speaker 1 So seeds four through 10 right now are separated by four and a half games. Damn.
And Lakers are right there at eight. Are the Lakers back?

Speaker 6 They have LeBron in A.D.

Speaker 1 Ratings.

Speaker 1 Listen, they get out there.

Speaker 6 It's rigged against Minnesota. Can you imagine if the Lakers take your spot in the playoffs, the fucking Lakers who took your name take your spot in the playoffs is rigged against Minnesota.

Speaker 1 I know my who's back. Elon being a master troll.
So there was like Elon basically with Twitter, and I respect the hell out of it.

Speaker 1 Every like two months, he announces a big change, and then a bunch of people on Twitter complain that Twitter is dying.

Speaker 6 Where do they complain about it? On Twitter.

Speaker 1 And they're like, I met some of my best friends here, and like, this

Speaker 1 app has changed my life.

Speaker 1 If this is truly the end, come follow my sub stack.

Speaker 1 And then the next day they wake up and they just tweet again. Uh, so the latest one was he said that all legacy blue check marks are getting taken away, um, and he didn't, we still have ours.

Speaker 1 I think he just basically made everyone panic and buy Twitter Blue. Yeah, he did take away New York Times, but he he then said we're gonna phase it out, so we might still lose ours.

Speaker 1 He's like, but if anyone says that they're not gonna pay, we're gonna take it away.

Speaker 6 I think that, yeah, I think it's basically uh kind of an April Fool's joke on everybody, yeah, it was on April Fool's.

Speaker 6 And then, and then if you start complaining about it, then he's like manually taking away people that don't like his check.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 6 And if you buy a company, honestly, if you spend $44 billion on a company, you should be allowed to make whatever tiny, minuscule, petty changes you want to it just to piss off people that don't like you.

Speaker 6 You spent $44 billion and I think it's worth like $20 billion now. So he's lost $24 billion

Speaker 6 just so that he can be petty online. I'd say that's worth it.

Speaker 1 It's kind of a genius business plan. Like, what if we said this is the last episode of part of my take ever? So, uh, go buy a t-shirt.
Yeah, and they'll be gone forever.

Speaker 6 It's like a boxer of fake retiring.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we just keep saying it every week. Or

Speaker 6 Kiss does a reunion tour every like two years. Some bands call it just a tour.
Yeah, but Kiss is like, this is our last one, guys.

Speaker 6 You'll never paint your faces again. Oh, guess what? We're going to be back at the casino in Washington, Pennsylvania.

Speaker 1 Let's not make fun of that because

Speaker 1 I actually was talking to Hank a couple weeks ago. I was like, you know, someday, like in 20 years, we should just do like a money grab and just do a tour.

Speaker 1 So we will do that. Just so everyone be ready, save a little money for that.

Speaker 1 We'll be going to 40 different cities in America.

Speaker 1 The elderly TORF of pardon my take.

Speaker 1 It'll be right after we split up for some salacious reason that we made up. So that way the tour means even more.

Speaker 6 Billy killed one of us.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Billy killed one of us. So we'll have hologram PFT or hologram big cat on the tour.

Speaker 6 Come on out. It'll be sick.

Speaker 1 Also a hand up. I took the bait on Twitter, Blue.

Speaker 1 You bought it?

Speaker 1 I thought I was losing my check mark. I wanted it.

Speaker 1 I wanted to keep my check mark. I'm a big J.
Oh, you got your ass. You got me.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to hide from it.

Speaker 1 Big Jake. I have to keep my check mark.
I'm a big J. Come on.

Speaker 1 For Twitter Blue.

Speaker 1 But if everyone can pay for it, it doesn't mean anything anymore. I know.
You get that part, right? Yeah.

Speaker 6 No, but it's still a blue jack.

Speaker 1 Come on. Like, in high school, I always wanted a blue check mark.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I don't want to just lose it. Yeah, well, so I paid for it.
All right.

Speaker 1 All right. Have a great rest of the show.
There's a lot.

Speaker 6 There are a lot of people out there like Jake, I think.

Speaker 1 Yeah. No, he made a lot of money, I'm sure.
Yep. It was genius.

Speaker 1 Okay. Thank you, Jake.
Let's get to Bobby Hurley. Great interview with Bobby Hurley.

Speaker 1 And then after Bobby Hurley, we'll finish with the lottery ball, which we already taped. And I have a question for Max.

Speaker 6 Man, I'll tell you what.

Speaker 1 When you're hungry out there, you start acting like a rookie quarterback in his first game, making bad decisions, messing up the basics, being all out of sorts. That's where Snickers comes in, man.

Speaker 1 That thing is packed: roasted peanuts, nugget, caramel, milk chocolate. It's like the MVP of candy bars.

Speaker 1 And when you bite into it, boom, it sorts you out, gets your head back in the game of life, satisfying your hunger. Remember this: Snickers handles your hunger so you can handle everything else.

Speaker 1 Snickers satisfies, man. That's a winning play.

Speaker 1 Okay, Okay, we now welcome on a very special guest. It is head coach of the Arizona State Sun Devils.
Also, legend of the Final Four, won two titles, been here three times. It's Bobby Hurley.

Speaker 1 We're sitting here. Let's set the stage because we're going to run this on Monday.
So it's Saturday morning before the Final Four.

Speaker 1 So let's just hope everything goes well tonight because we're going to run this on Monday.

Speaker 1 Do you want to do a prediction both ways and we can cut out the one that's wrong?

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 let's start with the other game here, the first game, right? It's an FAU and San Diego State. FAU is like one of those great stories that the tournament's built on, right?

Speaker 2 All these underdogs and just a mid-major that's kind of... flown under the radar and gotten all the way.
So happy for those guys.

Speaker 2 I've had a chance to play against San Diego State quite a bit, and they're a really hard-playing team, hard-nosed team. So I like San Diego State to advance in the first game.

Speaker 2 I think it's a good thing.

Speaker 1 They're strong will cut that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, low-scoring, scoring, tight game. Okay.
They're a very good defensive team.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 and then obviously your brother's game.

Speaker 1 How nervous are you? Because you can't control anything.

Speaker 1 Is it feel like a game day for you?

Speaker 2 Yeah, like it's starting to kick in now, the reality of it and stuff. Yesterday, I was really busy doing things here for the Final Four and got to see Dan last night and spend time with him.

Speaker 2 And just he was already a bundle of nervous energy.

Speaker 2 But yeah, it's starting to really resonate now. You know, what's at stake for him and for, you know, for the family to see him do this on this stage.
It's just, it's so cool.

Speaker 2 So just want to see him keep it rolling, man. I was in Vegas with him for those two games, and they were so dominant.
So just hoping that they're

Speaker 2 somewhat of a version of that team that I saw in Vegas for two games.

Speaker 6 Yeah, have you reached out to him at all with any

Speaker 6 actual basketball advice, anything you've seen on tape? Or is that just like an understanding? Like, this is your team, you got it.

Speaker 6 If you saw something, would you let him know? Be like, hey, I think I see something with this guy's defense, how he switches on.

Speaker 2 No, I don't want to cloud his mind and his judgment, and I trust it. We watch each other's teams like every game.

Speaker 2 So I think I know UConn as well as anybody in the country, what they do, how they're built, what they're trying to do out there.

Speaker 2 But as far as trying to give him any advice in that direction, no, I haven't even, I watched Miami play like twice this year. Yeah.
I mean, he's probably watched like 20 games.

Speaker 2 He's crazy about just his film study and and preparation.

Speaker 1 So what about your dad, though? Because I would imagine, obviously, your dad, legendary high school basketball coach, probably the best of all time.

Speaker 1 Does he have like one play that he's been holding for like if any of my sons get to the final four, like I'm going to show him this play? Like I've never, I've never shown anyone this play.

Speaker 1 It got in my mind. Did he have anything like that? I would like to imagine he did.

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, that's a good idea.

Speaker 2 But I didn't really think of that. You know, for me to present that to Dan, I have a few in my pocket that I use only for special occasions.

Speaker 2 But yeah,

Speaker 2 I didn't hear anything regarding that with my dad.

Speaker 1 It blows the dust off the play, takes it off a high shelf.

Speaker 6 It's the pick and roll.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and also here's a little tip, media tip from our side.

Speaker 1 Like, if they go on to win the national title, either you or Dan should say, oh, yeah, our dad gave us this play and just pick the best play of the game and just be like, yeah, that he gave it to us.

Speaker 1 And then they'll just write stories and everyone will be like, oh, my God. Yeah, just to pay tribute to our dad, of course.
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 6 I read read that

Speaker 6 Dan's rocking the same underwear every game in this tournament. It's his lucky underwear, I guess.
Yeah. It's got cartoons on it.

Speaker 6 Is he a superstitious guy when it comes to stuff like that?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, he had stuff he was doing when I coached with him at Wagner and Rhode Island, where he would eat M ⁇ Ms every day. He would just have to have a pack of M ⁇ Ms.

Speaker 2 I don't know. He would always go rest right before the game.
I remember one game at Wagner.

Speaker 2 It was getting close to when the game was about to start, and his office was pitch black, and he was like under his desk laying down and stuff.

Speaker 2 So it's just, I think he goes into a really dark place sometimes to get himself really amped to coach. But that was one time that his meditation might have went over the top a little bit.

Speaker 1 He told us when we had him on Monday, he said that it's good that there isn't like a lot of tape of you guys at Wagner together because you guys would just give the refs like everything.

Speaker 1 Was there ever a moment where like, would you do like a tag team like wrestling? It's like, no, you get him, you get him.

Speaker 1 Like, or he'd get kicked out and you'd be like, well, now you got to deal with the other Hurley.

Speaker 2 Yeah, like, I got like three T's there as an assistant.

Speaker 1 As an assistant,

Speaker 2 and then he would, like, give me like a death stare. Like, are you serious, man? I, like, it's hard enough me controlling my emotions, and now you're getting them, too.

Speaker 2 So, yeah, but it was, yeah, it was back and forth.

Speaker 2 We would, and I was like, I knew I couldn't be like him, and he was the guy that's, you know, on the front line doing it, but I was like behind the scenes really during timeouts, messing with those guys.

Speaker 1 Yeah, right, right.

Speaker 2 I was just working towards the future because I knew I'd be a head coach soon, so I had to make sure I get my game right.

Speaker 1 So that, like, those years, Wagner and then URI, obviously you guys had, the first year at URI wasn't easy.

Speaker 1 Was it when you decide I want to go into coaching and I'm going to be my little brother's assistant coach, was there like a little humble pie that you had to eat?

Speaker 1 Or was it you guys are tight enough that this is this is going to work?

Speaker 2 It was big time humble. Yeah.
And I just, it was all about Dan. And, you know, we talked quite a bit about him taking the job.
And I don't even think he was 100% sure he was going to take it.

Speaker 2 You know, he had a great situation at St. Benedict's.
He had coached like Tristan Thompson, J.R. Smith, all these guys, national program.
So it was a leap of faith to do it for him.

Speaker 2 So I knew I was just going to come in and

Speaker 2 put my head down at work and just do whatever I had to do. I mean, I was in an office with two other guys, probably the size of this room.

Speaker 2 I had to mop out before practice down on the court. So

Speaker 2 big time, humble. And we didn't have the resources.
that we both have now at Power Conference School. So you're just wearing a lot of different hats.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 That must have been, I don't know what your guys' relationship is like, but I can imagine that being an older brother and dealing with a younger brother like as your boss would have some, it might get awkward at times.

Speaker 6 You have to like have a little power struggle right up front. And like you said, like eat some humble pie.

Speaker 6 How was that relationship like as it grew and as you guys both kind of came up through the coaching round?

Speaker 2 I mean, it was just like cooler just to be in those meetings, you know, to, and then he and I just talking about basketball, talking about life, talking about our families.

Speaker 2 Just we had so much time to spend in the office together. And we had been disconnected doing our own thing for years.
So, to get that time was really cool as brothers, you know. Yeah.

Speaker 2 The time that wasn't great was

Speaker 2 recruiting meetings, I would say, with Dan, because Dan would get after it. He'd be very detail-oriented.

Speaker 2 If you didn't make the necessary calls, you were supposed to make to whatever kid in

Speaker 2 his circle, like he would know about it. If a recruiting situation was going south with a kid and we were losing the battle, it was some of those meetings were pretty ugly just

Speaker 2 in terms of getting after it, just to make sure we get the players that we need. Just a lot of yelling and the hurly, yeah, a lot of stress, a lot of tension.

Speaker 1 Are you a little jealous that he's got the scowl? Because you don't have the full scowl. He's got a scowl that's like

Speaker 1 it stops anyone in their tracks when he gives that like the chin out and everything.

Speaker 1 You need like, you don't have the full scowl. No.
No, everyone has their own style.

Speaker 2 I think it's,

Speaker 2 you know, mine is a little bit more like my head might explode, I think.

Speaker 1 When you untuck the shirt, that's when it's on, too. I think it's when you get red.
Yeah. You start to get red.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I really, like, internalize all my anger.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Instantly.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 6 So as John Rostein, our friend calls you, his nickname is Bobby Fucking Hurley, which is, I think it's a good nickname, but it's also kind of low effort, low energy on John's part to just drop the F-bomb in there.

Speaker 6 I think it's one of his worst ones. Do you have any feeling one way or the other of everybody calling you Bobby fucking Hurley?

Speaker 2 Well, the one I don't like is when I lose a game or I screw something up and it's effing Bobby Hurley.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 So also you have to kind of backfires on you there.

Speaker 1 Yeah, put a comma in there. Yeah, yeah.
So I was curious about your playing days. I hate Duke.
Just want to let that be.

Speaker 2 Well, I thought you had me here because the affinity that you have for me.

Speaker 1 No, yeah. I hate Coach K.

Speaker 1 I hate him so, so much but i didn't hate him as much uh when you were playing for him because it was still new and that's actually my question is like when you you got to duke they had been to a couple final fours they hadn't won at all so it wasn't like full-on duke hate like by the public what was the recruiting like what was the decision who were you deciding between when you went to duke like was there other schools because you you you kind of were part of the growth of Coach K and the monster that we all had to deal with for, you know, many decades.

Speaker 2 Well, I was a Big East guy, so I grew up with the Big East in New Jersey.

Speaker 2 Two of my high school teammates that were seniors, Terry DeJair, played in the NBA, Jerry Walker. Both were going to go to Seton Hall.

Speaker 2 And we had agreed kind of together, verbally, that we were all going to stay together. We were national champions my senior year.
Hey, let's go to Seton Hall and do it.

Speaker 2 I was also looking at Syracuse, Villanova, a lot, but primarily, you know, Big East schools.

Speaker 2 My mom, big on education, loved Duke for that part of it.

Speaker 2 She wanted me to visit. I had talked to Coach K a few times, built a good enough relationship, but I just realistically didn't think I was going to go that far from home.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 And my mom was like, you got to go on this visit. So I was like, all right, I'm going to do it.
And I went and just was around Coach K, his family, saw how he interacted with the players.

Speaker 2 He had all the players at the house. It felt like a family thing.

Speaker 2 I watched Leightner play and pick up games. I'm a point guard.
So I just kind of trusted my instincts. And Coach K, to be honest, he wore me out that weekend just with personal meetings.

Speaker 2 Met with me, you know, again, over and over, multiple times about what I would bring, what I would do at Duke, and the whole deal.

Speaker 2 And I was pretty exhausted by the end of the weekend because my dad and my mom really didn't let me go out. You know, I didn't have a social life in high school.
Right.

Speaker 2 And now I'm on the Duke campus on a visit, and I'm going out, and I'm going to parties. You know, I'm staying up late.
So by the 48 hours is over, I'm exhausted.

Speaker 2 And now Coach K is going to fly on the plane with me back to New Jersey.

Speaker 2 So now he's on the plane with me still, you know, hammering away.

Speaker 1 Sounds annoying.

Speaker 1 Sounds like an annoying guy.

Speaker 2 The persistence was like insane.

Speaker 2 And then finally at that point, like I'm like, this guy wants me badly there. I think it's the right place.
So in my mind, I was like, I think I'm going to Duke.

Speaker 2 So as coach is now driving to my house, he's going to do another in-home visit. Now he's going to talk for another probably two hours about Duke with my parents.

Speaker 2 And so I just I grabbed my parents and brought them in the kitchen and I was like, look, I'm going to Duke. I can't do this anymore.

Speaker 2 I can't listen to another recruiting pitch.

Speaker 2 But he sold it and it was like probably the best decision I ever made. No, it must be.

Speaker 2 Other than my wife. Yeah, there we go.

Speaker 1 And the birth of your children.

Speaker 2 So it must have been weird, too, because your dad, obviously, legendary coach, when you're going through the recruiting pitches, was there any pitch that you got where your dad was like this guy's full of shit like i'm better coach than him you see like he just sheltered me from all the pitches like he would take all the calls so like no one could really get to me and there were no cell phones we had one phone in our house and stuff so i think i got on the phone i happened to pick up the phone one time and it was uh uh i think it was michigan on the phone maybe like steve fisher or something yeah right you know and and like so but it was just random you know that i would even answer the phone so you don't even know how much money you were being offered yeah yeah no one would go at my dad like that.

Speaker 2 Like they knew his like his credibility and stuff.

Speaker 1 Right. It must have been intimidating from for the coach's perspective to have to recruit a guy who's like

Speaker 1 his dad knows just as much about basketball as I do.

Speaker 2 Look, I mean, he had Dean Smith coming through there. I mean, he had all kinds of players before I even surfaced with my brother.
So like he know he knew the whole drill.

Speaker 2 Like he wasn't going to fall for any crazy shit.

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Speaker 6 I mean, you were a great point guard.

Speaker 6 You still have the all-time record for most collegiate assists? I think that might be a record that's not going to be broken.

Speaker 1 It's going to be tough. Because

Speaker 1 we were talking the other day. COVID year.

Speaker 6 The COVID year, everybody got that extra stat patting asterisk.

Speaker 2 But I'm not like the guys on the Dolphins or something where they just don't want to pop champagne at the end of every season.

Speaker 1 If someone comes along and

Speaker 1 you'd be a little mad.

Speaker 2 Not really, though. I mean, how long have I had it? Like over 30 years.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's been a while.

Speaker 6 But I think it's unbreakable. I'm going to say it's an unbreakable record.

Speaker 2 Most likely because no one stays around long enough to try and break it.

Speaker 2 Or they can't play enough NCA tournament games to break it.

Speaker 1 Or yeah, like you played, you know, four years, you were starting right out as a freshman. So, like, it's hard to get all of that.
Like, guys who start as a freshman usually go to the pros.

Speaker 6 And also, having Grant Hill and Christian Leightner able to make shots, that helps the assists.

Speaker 2 And Coach Kay let me play my game. That's what he did.

Speaker 2 You know, even as a freshman, I broke the ACC record for assists in a single season my freshman year, and I broke the single season turnover record in the ACC, too.

Speaker 1 Like breath of hurt interceptions and touchdowns. Yeah.
Did you ever have a moment where you thanked Christian Leitner for being so hateable that people didn't hate you as much?

Speaker 1 Because if Christian Leitner wasn't there, like everyone would have hated you a lot.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but he liked being hated, so he enjoyed being the villain.

Speaker 2 So it was perfect for him. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And you came early enough that I think the Duke hate didn't start till a little bit later.

Speaker 2 Yeah, like when we played in,

Speaker 2 I'm sorry, was it Denver, my freshman year, we got destroyed by UNLV. It was humiliating, humble.

Speaker 1 You see, in the final four. In the final four.
Yeah, So you lost for like 30.

Speaker 2 By 30.

Speaker 2 And I was awful. I was like one for five, had four turnovers.
They were just throwing lobs, dunking, and I was the last guy back. I was always there, and they were dunking over me and stuff.

Speaker 2 And so it was humiliating. I had my friends back home in Jersey when I went home, like, yo, what did you do?

Speaker 2 How could you play like that? Are you serious? Like, these Jersey people keep it real.

Speaker 2 So it was tough offseason, right? But getting back to that next Final Four, like, everyone was like anti-UNLV because they were involved with the NCA and stuff.

Speaker 2 And they were undefeated, unbeatable. So like in that arena that night, when we took them down, like people were going nuts.

Speaker 1 You guys were the underdog. Yeah.
Like people were like, you were lucky little Duke. Yeah.
Which is crazy to think about. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So it was like we were that team and then we won the title and the next year everyone hated us.

Speaker 2 It's flipped like that.

Speaker 2 It was like everyone, we were a target everywhere we went.

Speaker 6 What did you guys say when you were drawing up the play for Christian Christian Leitner to hit that shot? Two seconds left against Kentucky. What was that conversation like?

Speaker 2 Well, I got screened, and then they shot a straight-on bank shot. Sean Woods did, and he made it.
And I actually ran into Sean here. He's at the Final Four.
We still communicate. Great guy.

Speaker 2 Hell of a player at Kentucky. So they go up two.

Speaker 2 I'm literally on the floor and wall calling timeouts, but I'm looking at the clock. I'm like, there's no way.
We're done.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 But he was amazing at getting people and convincing people, Coach K was, that something could be done because he was able to recapture enough guys in the huddle to do what we did.

Speaker 2 And we practice game situations. Like, we did that same play in practice.
We rehearsed it. So it wasn't like that was the first time we did it.
You know, I was the second option going to half court.

Speaker 2 And Christian, obviously, was the primary.

Speaker 1 It's an iconic, iconic March Madness moment. Yeah, it's probably number one.
I'd say so, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I wish that Gordon Hayward had hit that shot because that would have been number one, but it's number one. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It was amazing. Yeah, that was, I was, uh, that was some play, too.
Geez, right? Yeah. We had one like that this year.
I don't know if you guys know.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, against Arizona. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That was incredible.

Speaker 1 That wasn't drawn up.

Speaker 2 Look, I had no timeouts left. They were shooting two free throws.
The refs said, hey, you got to have two guys on the free throw line to rebound the shot. It was a two-shot foul.

Speaker 2 I grabbed three of my players and brought them over. I had a board.
I said, you take it out. You set a screen.
My leading scorer go up the sideline.

Speaker 1 You get credit for that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 some credit. Like, I don't know, 10% or

Speaker 1 5%. That was an incredible, incredible shot.
Yeah. And it was like pure, too.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but the venom for me and Tucson is insane. Yeah.

Speaker 2 For us to do it like that, it was unbelievable.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you had the moment, it was a couple of years ago when you got ejected. You untucked the shirt, pumping up the crowd.
Yes. I mean, that was vintage Bobby Hurley.

Speaker 1 Have you ever thought about slapping the floor? Like as you're going out, as you're getting ejected?

Speaker 2 I've considered that at times on the sideline, not after the ejection. I got ejected this year at San Francisco.

Speaker 2 That one was tough, too.

Speaker 2 It's a bad feeling. Everyone's screaming your name.
Get out of here hurly.

Speaker 2 And you're sweating.

Speaker 2 And then you're like, you're so angry. And then you got to go sit there and then you're so lonely.
And then you just got to say, like, you know, why did I just act like that? Right.

Speaker 1 Right. And then blacked out for a second.
Blacked out.

Speaker 6 There's a moment you sit down and you're like, well, I'm stupid. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Do you, can you tell, though, before a game, we actually were hanging out with Bob Huggins last night, and he actually said that you guys got into it once, which was very funny, him retelling that, because he was like, I didn't do anything.

Speaker 1 He's yelling at me. But can you, he know, he said, he was like, yeah, there's some games where I just know like the refs, you know, how they're calling the game, my mood.

Speaker 1 It's probably not going to go well tonight. Like, I'm going to get it.
I'm going to get a team. I might get ejected.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 There was a game like that a few years ago. It was a neutral site game

Speaker 2 versus St. Mary's, and they're a very good program, and it was in Phoenix, and it was at the Suns Arena.
And I didn't know who the assignment was because it was a neutral.

Speaker 2 I didn't know who the refs were until about an hour before the game. And on the game were the two refs at that time that had thrown me out.

Speaker 2 And then the other ref was taken off a majority of my games because of just issues that we had.

Speaker 2 So that was the three guys on my game. So when I looked at that guy, I was just, I told, I was like, I don't know how I'm going going to survive this game.
Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 I don't know how I'm going to bait. He's entrapment.
Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 They're trying to bait me. They're baiting me to explode.

Speaker 2 And I'm not going to say who it was, but yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 we lost badly, too. I think we lost by 20 to 30.
It was.

Speaker 1 But I mean, that type of, I mean, coaches in college basketball are iconic. Like that, that, because

Speaker 1 the players turn over every single year, like, that's what you remember about March Madness.

Speaker 1 And that's why I love both of you, both you and your brother, watching them, watching you guys, the passion, the anger, the scowls. It's awesome.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, I think the players feed off it. Like, they know we're invested.
You know, like you can't fake the passion. You either have it or you don't.
And, you know, it's, you know, I have my son there.

Speaker 2 For me, he's kind of like my bodyguard. You know, my son is on the team, and he knows when I'm about to lose it.
And he'll come over and grab me.

Speaker 1 Say, come on. I've seen this before.

Speaker 1 Hey, we need Jaman. The following words to bring you back down a little bit.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. This looks like when I was like 10 years old and I didn't go to sleep.
and yeah all right i see this coming yeah

Speaker 1 that's smart so um the you you had obviously the uh accident when you went to the nba night if for people who don't know you know drafted seventh uh 19 games horrific car accident do you have i know i was reading a story that like every time that date comes up it's painful memory but is there part of you that's like hey i was able to bounce back from this and still play in the nba and like the toughness that you showed i don't think gets enough credit yeah I mean it was just

Speaker 2 I can't explain like where I was and

Speaker 2 just

Speaker 2 at the lowest possible level just physically you know mentally it was probably worse just getting in a car again you know I remember one of the first times I got in a car someone beeped a horn at me I was like so shaken up from I just had to pull the car over and so it was just like dealing with the the aftermath of all that and the feelings you have with it you know physically it's kind kind of a shell of myself.

Speaker 2 You know, my left shoulder was just the biggest problem. Like, I became a, you know, a one-handed player in the NBA.
I couldn't dribble or do much with my left hand anymore.

Speaker 2 But yeah, I just, you know, you got to,

Speaker 2 I say, like, everyone's got to like across the bear. Like, I was almost had like a perfect life.
It was like... go to Final Fours, win championships, then go to the NBA,

Speaker 2 living your dream, the whole deal. And nothing, I had no like serious adversity.
Nothing really bad happened to me. Everyone has bad things happen.
So, you know, I was due for mine.

Speaker 2 And it was, I think I've done the best I could with it. I think I had a, there was a lot of dark times.
Like, I think my wife, Leslie, helped me tremendously when I was released from the NBA.

Speaker 2 I had to deal with the failure and go through that to figure out a way to be productive again. You know, so I think I it took me longer than I thought to get to coaching.

Speaker 2 But, I mean, the relationships that you build with these kids, like I was, I had dinner with two of my former players here in town that are in town for the final four.

Speaker 2 Just seeing all the guys you coach playing in the NBA, like freaking Lou Dort. Oh, the best.
Oh, man. Trader Chamber.

Speaker 2 $90 million contract. I mean, I remember sitting in his living room in Montreal, Canada with his family.

Speaker 2 He did it the hard way. And that dude is fierce.
And he was one of my favorite guys to coach. And,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 Lou was special. I mean, it was like so humble.

Speaker 2 he'd be coming in like a lot of five-star guys they're like they know everything you know don't tell me anything I know it all coach but he was always you know one of the most coachable humble nice kids big strong guy but like really like nice guy yeah like the only time I saw him get really really mad was we won a game I think we're at either Cal or Stanford and we're getting on the bus and we're going to

Speaker 2 and we got California pizza kitchen for the guys you know just a snack until we get to the hotel to the next stop. And Lou was late because he had to do media stuff.
And

Speaker 2 Lou ordered a butter cake from California Pizza Kitchen, and someone took his butter cake.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 he was pissed, man. I've never seen him get that angry.
Rightfully so. Yeah, we had to calm him down, man.
He was serious about getting that butter cake, man.

Speaker 1 I'd be pissed, too.

Speaker 1 I'm pissed for him right now.

Speaker 1 He's got $90 million. Yeah.

Speaker 6 Can you still get hot from three?

Speaker 2 You know, the only thing I do with that is, you know, I'll take two shots everywhere we go. It's one of my rituals.
My brother's got a million things he does too. So we go to shoot around.

Speaker 1 He drinks piss.

Speaker 2 Has that been confirmed yet?

Speaker 1 No, what we told him was like, hey,

Speaker 1 it looks like piss. We know it's not piss, but maybe just pretend it is because that's a good intimidation.

Speaker 6 It's a good psychopath.

Speaker 2 Yeah, if you're willing to do that, that's got to scare some people.

Speaker 1 Just stare down the other coach and be like, see this?

Speaker 6 I have my suspicions because he brought it up to us. He goes, by the way, guys, I don't drink piss.
Which is a really unusual thing.

Speaker 1 Sounds like someone who drinks piss. You don't drink piss.
Yeah, she's a little defensive.

Speaker 6 I've never drank piss before. I've also never told anybody out of nowhere.
Hey, how's it going? My name's PFT. By the way, I don't drink piss.

Speaker 1 I know you were thinking it, but I don't do it.

Speaker 1 I'm not even thinking about drinking piss right now.

Speaker 2 So, so, all right, so just make two shots every day. So, just so I could say whatever new arena I may never have been played in before, that I made a couple of buckets there on the day of the game.

Speaker 2 So, I'll make one at each basket and then I'll just drop the ball back on the rack.

Speaker 2 The other thing I'll do is I'll do a drill that I do with the guys. I can still move a little bit laterally so they'll get the ball at half court.

Speaker 2 They get like three or four dribbles ahead of steam coming at me at the three-point line and I'm just going to try and guess their handle. See if I could take the ball or beat them to the spot, right?

Speaker 2 And then if they go by me, I have a coach and he's got a pad, so he's going to knock the shit out of them, and you've got to finish through contact at the basket, you know.

Speaker 2 But I like to see, like, at this stage and where I'm at, like, if I could stay in front of you, then I'm in deep shit. Right.
Right. When the game starts, right, right.
So that's why I do it.

Speaker 2 I want to see, like, hey, could this guy that I have, my guard, he better be able to go by me. Yes, right.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 And sometimes I guess right, and I might beat him, and then I could take a charge, and then I could talk.

Speaker 2 No, yeah, if I beat them to a spot and then I can't move, like, they're too fast. So then it's either you're going to run me over or you're going to go by me.

Speaker 1 Do you have a pad or anything? I got nothing.

Speaker 2 No, I nothing.

Speaker 2 but then i could talk too like hey i just i stop i gotta stop or whatever so it's my way to stay connected but then if you are able to stop them then you're like i did a really bad job recruiting this kid because yes i'm i'm able to stop him it's one of my most fun things to do when i get new kids in the program freshmen or i just got a transfer so one of the first times that we'll do it that's what i want to see i want to make sure that they could go buy me yeah i like that that's great uh one other thing about uh getting drafted in the nba you signed a sneaker deal with ITZ in the zone sneakers.

Speaker 1 What is that?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 do you have any?

Speaker 2 I have them in my trophy case. Okay, you do?

Speaker 2 Yeah, in my

Speaker 2 house. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, what is that for real? What is that?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 it was a new company that was started. You know, it was a new venture by Foot Locker.
Okay. So they were getting into the game of starting their own shoe.

Speaker 2 So I was their first guy that was going to endorse the shoe.

Speaker 1 Were you their only guy? The only guy. Okay, I was going to say.

Speaker 2 And as it turned out, we did a huge commercial shoot. We did it in LA.
It was the coolest thing, like a dream for a kid, like, hey, I have my own shoe. Right.
And so we did the commercial.

Speaker 2 That was cool. That was hitting national.

Speaker 2 And then all the marketing dollars were into me. Unfortunately, like 20 games into my rookie year,

Speaker 2 I was doing okay. I mean, I wasn't setting the world on fire, but I was leading

Speaker 2 NBA rookies and assists and 20 games in, accident, you know, everything that they had put into me, kind of, there was no plan B.

Speaker 1 We need to do like a what if if the accident doesn't happen in the zone shoes, like, is better than Nike.

Speaker 1 I would hope they were. Were they cool-looking shoes?

Speaker 2 I thought they were nice, like, three-quarter mids, so they weren't like high tops, you know. They had a decent look to them.
They had my number seven. I wore seven in the NBA on the back of the shoe.

Speaker 6 Did you have equity in that?

Speaker 2 I didn't have any stock. I was always strictly a

Speaker 1 financial company.

Speaker 1 You should bring it back. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 It's not a bad-looking shoe.

Speaker 2 It's not. Yeah.
I mean, I'd have to bring three or four of them on the road for games because sometimes the bottoms would blow out because we were still figuring out, like,

Speaker 2 just to, you know.

Speaker 1 Oh, wait, now I'm looking at a different picture. It's a very bad shoe.
It's ugly.

Speaker 2 That one's not flattering.

Speaker 1 Yeah, those look like.

Speaker 1 We got to bring it back. Looks like a wrestling shoe on the bottom.
Yeah, like retro. Yeah.

Speaker 1 In the zone shoes. Like, what could have been? Yeah.
That would be sick. I just, I laughed when I was looking it up.
I was like, ITZ, what the hell? Yeah. Like, yeah, in the zone shoes.

Speaker 1 Not to bring up another bad memory, but I do, from a coaching perspective, I'm curious about this.

Speaker 1 I'm a Badger fan. They sometimes have games where they just don't score.
You had a game where you scored 29 points.

Speaker 1 You lost, was it like 50 to 29?

Speaker 1 After that game, were you like, this isn't for me anymore? Because

Speaker 1 that was actually historic. I think it was the lowest scoring.

Speaker 2 It was one of the worst feelings that I've ever experienced.

Speaker 1 I mean, it was hit by a car.

Speaker 1 29 points.

Speaker 2 I mean, how could I describe it? It was like a helpless feeling. You're sitting there and you hope, you wish you could just hit a button and then you just fall like right to the floor.

Speaker 2 And then you're no longer there. It was just, it was like.

Speaker 2 I couldn't help them score a basket. Right.
But I can tell you kind of why it happened if you want to know

Speaker 1 backstory on this.

Speaker 2 Yes, so we go to this like big

Speaker 2 tournament in the Bahamas, and it's it's a holiday tournament about Atlantis right now.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but it's it's three straight days, right? So, so we go play, we start off with number one Baylor, and we lose by 12, right? So, then we get Syracuse, and I think we lose 88-84.

Speaker 2 So, now we're day three, third straight day, we're playing a hard-nosed Loyola Chicago, and it's to just get a win so that we don't go 0 for 3. Right.

Speaker 2 They

Speaker 2 played hard, outplayed us. We lost again.
So we lost three straight.

Speaker 2 So now we got to get on a plane, fly from the Bahamas all the way up to Arizona, and then like three days later, we're in that game.

Speaker 2 These dudes were like shot, like wiped out.

Speaker 2 Usually when you're playing in a Pac-12 tournament, you might have to, like we played three straight days, but we're playing Arizona in the semis to have a chance to win a championship. So

Speaker 1 you reach deep and

Speaker 2 like this tournament, you just keep losing, and then you got to go again, you lose again, and just keep going, you lose again.

Speaker 1 Like, back to a tournament, you lose, you get your bags, you go home.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so these dudes, I think, mentally were beat up, and physically, all those games beat up.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, 29 points. It's hard to do, yeah.

Speaker 2 But it's so unpredictable. It's, you know, the next game we went to Oregon.
I never wanted Oregon, and you know, we scored like 80 and beat Oregon.

Speaker 1 Did you, yeah, like that is college basketball? Did you, after the 29-point game, were you like, all right, guys, we're going to start like with the fundamentals? Like, this is how you shoot.

Speaker 1 Elbow in.

Speaker 2 Like, I don't, I don't even know what I said to them. Like,

Speaker 2 it had to be something epic, though, but I just, I, I can't even go back there. Maybe it's like when bad things happen, you just try and like block them out of your memory.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you know, like, it pretend it didn't happen.

Speaker 1 Turn the tape.

Speaker 6 Don't ever watch that again. Yeah.
I mean, in a weird way, having a historically bad performance might, it allows you to just be like, okay, I'm not even going to think about that.

Speaker 6 That's such an aberration that we're going to pretend that didn't happen in just my life.

Speaker 2 And then the thing with me is everyone

Speaker 2 kills me me because I give too much freedom. Like, I let guys take quick shots.
You know, we get up and down fast. Like, so it's rare that we would ever do that.

Speaker 2 Like, if anything, you know, our opponent might score way too many and we're not stopping them enough and stuff. Like, it was just so uncharacteristic.

Speaker 1 Well, I probably had the over in that game, so that was probably my fault. So I apologize.
I'm sure I did. It was like, oh, Arizona State, they run up and down.
29 points. Shit.

Speaker 6 How much fun would you have had going to Arizona State as a student? You really got to experience both sides of the academic spectrum there. Duke and then Arizona State, which is like apparent.

Speaker 6 I've never been there, but I know people that went to college there. Let's just say they had a great time.

Speaker 2 Well, my first week on the job,

Speaker 2 I brought in a kid, Shannon Evans, who was with me at Buffalo. He was two years,

Speaker 2 I was two years at Buffalo. We won the league, went to the NCAA tournament, lost to Coach Huggins, who you brought up, and that might have been the exchange that he brought up.

Speaker 2 We lost a close game there in the NCAA tournament. Arizona State hired me.
Shannon Evans was just finished his sophomore year, averaged 15 a game, was all-league player. He and I are like this.

Speaker 2 Buffalo was his only scholarship at a high school. He wanted to go with me to Arizona State.

Speaker 2 Fast forward, you know, about a week or so, we do his visit, and it's a Friday in April, and it's about 4 o'clock, and we take Shannon to see potentially where he might live.

Speaker 2 And it's one of these fancy, you know, apartments where students, they have all the amenities, pool tables, all these things, right?

Speaker 1 Beautiful.

Speaker 2 I'm like, wow, we didn't have this at Buffalo, right?

Speaker 2 So we go up to the second floor, and that's where the gym is for this apartment complex. And they have huge windows.
And as we walk to the windows, man, it was like...

Speaker 2 There was people in bathing suits and they were food and it was hundreds of people and it was nuts. It looked like freaking

Speaker 1 spring break.

Speaker 2 So he's looking there and he's like, wow, I just was in Buffalo.

Speaker 1 I think this looks pretty good to me.

Speaker 2 So, I mean, that's kind of in a nutshell what it was that day.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's a fun place to go to school, but I got to be careful about the guys I bring. I mean, they got to be serious about wanting to be pros and stuff.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because there's a lot more distractions than a place like Buffalo. Yeah, you could lose your mind.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 6 You walk with them along that little beach area and just mark down how many times they look at the girls in swimsuits.

Speaker 6 This guy might be too horny to play for me.

Speaker 1 So what's the best coaching lesson your dad and Coach K have given you?

Speaker 1 Coach K probably didn't give you any coaching lessons, but what's the one thing you like go back to where it's like, I have this ingrained in my head, like when everything fails or when tough times come, this is what I've learned from you.

Speaker 2 I think my dad was just like insane competitor. So all the competitive nature, drive you see from my brother or me, it's like it was grown in that house.

Speaker 2 Because like I've never seen anyone that hates losing like him. Like it didn't happen too often, but when it did, it was like Armageddon in our house.

Speaker 2 So we would just go into hiding, Dan and I. So you learn not to accept losing.

Speaker 2 And you also see how hard he works. I mean, he was a probation officer and then he coached.
So

Speaker 2 you develop a work ethic. And I think that has been a part of our identity, my brother and I.

Speaker 2 And then he was always willing to learn stuff. Like, I don't always feel like

Speaker 2 I know it all. Like, I'm still learning.
Like, I'm learning from our TCU loss. Like as coaches, we're constantly learning from

Speaker 2 failure or success. And he was always willing to try different things.
So my dad is, you know, he didn't think he knew it all ever. And so I always kind of remember that.

Speaker 1 That's smart.

Speaker 2 And then Coach K, like, he's just amazing at motivating his messaging. Like, for coaching, it's like I always think about what I'm telling my players all the time.

Speaker 2 Because if I'm not on point with what I want to say to them so that they're i'm pushing them in the direction they need to go then uh that's one of the key underrated things about about coaching is is is his your messaging and coach k man was was as good as i've ever been around in terms of getting people to to play at their peak and getting them ready for big games and all that stuff did you were you watching coach k's career because again you were there the beginning um were you upset ever that he got a little bit softer towards the end because i'm sure he was a lot harder on your on you guys when he was trying to climb the mountain did you notice that like when you go visit him that the players had a little bit easier than you did I don't know I the times that I had been at games like I would sit right behind a bench and I would see him lighten everyone up in the huddles like and excited

Speaker 2 so yeah I don't I don't know how much of the edge he lost so I wouldn't say that that was

Speaker 1 through my experience of seeing it now I wasn't around all the time like that but yeah yeah no he got after he got after it though and he did do like he he would pull, wouldn't let them wear uniforms, right?

Speaker 6 Did he ever do that to you? Took the D off.

Speaker 1 Yeah, take the D. Did he ever do that to you guys? I think we got thrown out of the locker room.

Speaker 2 At one point, we weren't able to use that, so we had to change, you know, at our apartment for practice. And then after, just go home, go right back.

Speaker 2 He said, we didn't deserve to have a bunch of people.

Speaker 1 Walking back is wearing your full Duke uniform. Yeah.
What if that guy plays? That's funny.

Speaker 6 Did he ever tell any jokes?

Speaker 1 Was he

Speaker 6 a sense of humor at all?

Speaker 2 Yeah, he did. It was like he,

Speaker 2 I remember one time, my freshman year, there was a big event that donors, boosters were at, and he was speaking, and, you know, I'm from Jersey, you know, and I'm in the South now, right?

Speaker 2 And so they have all the good ribs and southern barbecue and all that. And it was the theme of the night was that it was going to be a barbecue, right?

Speaker 2 And so he was just saying, like, he took a shot at me. He was like, you know, they said that, we're going to have barbecue and Hurley thought we were going to have like hot dogs and hamburgers.

Speaker 2 He would always take those. He had a really good dry sense of humor.

Speaker 1 What about Pete Gaudette? I love that guy. Whatever happened to him?

Speaker 2 Pete was great. I love Pete.
He would always, like, after practice, grab me and just, when I'm tired, just want me to get more shots up and stuff. He was

Speaker 2 just,

Speaker 2 Pete was a funny dude, too, man.

Speaker 2 One time in the airport, I remember Coach put a dollar bill on the...

Speaker 2 in the baggage claim and he just put it on there and it was just spinning around and he was just looking to see what happened what would happen with it and some random guy just walked up looked around and took it took the dollar bill you know he would do stuff like that you know just uh but coach he actually came to a game of mine when i was coaching at buffalo at kenn state oh nice yeah coach cadet so i was able to spend a little time with him yeah he's the kind of guy that would do anything for you yeah he did everything for coach k including taking all those losses

Speaker 1 I did set you up there.

Speaker 1 I mean, those should be on Coach K's record, but whatever. We don't have to get into that.
That's not, that's, we're here celebrating the Final Four. A last couple questions.

Speaker 1 So we are here at the Final Four. Do you have like,

Speaker 1 I would imagine this time of year, every year, you just have like great memories flash back in your head? Because it is my favorite tournament.

Speaker 1 It's such a like march is so special, and it's got to be like something extra special for you. Do you have that? Like it all flashes back when we get to this time of year?

Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, I just, I put myself back in that UNLV game, the plays I made, to think about it,

Speaker 2 what it felt like to stand on that stage when you won and you're the champ and that's it. And it's like life-changing.

Speaker 2 It's hard to explain it.

Speaker 2 When you do it,

Speaker 2 it's such a good feeling that once that feeling goes away,

Speaker 2 then I just wanted to get back in the gym again. Right.
Because I knew everyone would be chasing me for it. You know, so like I made sure like the next year that we were like ready again.

Speaker 2 And I don't know, we just were able to play in iconic games. Yeah.
Playing that UNLV game and it beat Kansas.

Speaker 2 I remember throwing a pass to Grand Hill Hill where Connor was dribbling it and I fumbled the ball a little bit I had to throw the lob right quick and the ball was like going right into the crowd you know and he just went up there and reached and dunked it and so I'm seeing that

Speaker 2 and then playing Indiana I got to go play Indiana the next year Bobby Knight Coach K and

Speaker 2 you know and then the Fab 5 so yeah it was just like these big-time games you know with so much on the line it was just it's a lot of the tournament as it is today and like the love that we have it for it as sports fans came from those runs and like those iconic teams yeah yeah and that's just there's so many more outlets now you know there's so many more media ways to watch basketball like every team could be watched like back when i played it was basically us on cbs on saturday or you know espn and you know it was duke was on tv like every weekend yeah so you're brainwashed with duke all the time yeah well

Speaker 1 I hate you guys so much.

Speaker 1 I was going to say, I can't watch the Pac-12 Network, but that's not your fault. I'm always like, what the hell? I want to watch this game.

Speaker 1 Every single year, I'm like, God damn it, I want to watch this game.

Speaker 2 You sound like my parents of the kids coach.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, it's probably for different reasons. They want to watch their son coach.
I'm like, I bet on this game. I want to watch this game.

Speaker 1 All right. So last question for me.

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Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I love horse racing. You got into horse racing.
Do you miss, like, because you were in it right after you left the NBA. It's one of the hardest businesses to be in.
Do you miss it?

Speaker 1 Do you ever think about going back into it?

Speaker 2 I do.

Speaker 2 And I've talked with my wife, Leslie, about that. And I'm getting some resistance.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's an impossible business.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's from a business.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you don't get in it to make money. Yeah, you can't.

Speaker 2 It's hard.

Speaker 2 But like, again, it replaced my competitive nature

Speaker 2 that I had for basketball.

Speaker 2 It was something different that I did.

Speaker 2 I was able to

Speaker 2 learn a lot about it. Like, I had some great moments.
Like, I had a horse run in the the Kentucky Derby. I won a couple of grade one races.
Like, I had,

Speaker 2 you know, I was fairly successful, but it's just, yeah, it's not an easy business. But I love it.
I mean, I still watch all the big races.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there's two big races to the business.

Speaker 2 The Florida Derby.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and the Arkansas Derby.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'll be rooting. I love Forte.
I've watched Forte a few times.

Speaker 1 He will be the Kentucky Derby favorite, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, he's got to win today, but yeah, I got a good feeling about Forte.

Speaker 1 That's my pick. I mean, horse racing.
Like, when you, I was at, I was lucky enough to go to Breeders this year, and I saw Flightline. I was like, this horse.
When you see those.

Speaker 2 Oh, were you at that?

Speaker 2 I was at that race.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we go to a bunch of races. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. That, like, like, it kind of took your breath away just watching what he did, right?

Speaker 1 That, and I saw American Pharaoh in 2015, also a Keeneland for the breeders, and I was like, this horse is. Yeah.
When you see those horses that are special, it really does take your breath away.

Speaker 1 You're like, I'm seeing something that I'd

Speaker 1 won't see for another decade. Yeah.

Speaker 2 That horse was amazing.

Speaker 1 Flightline. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's probably the best horse I've ever seen. Ever.

Speaker 1 I wish that we could, we'll talk off there, but like, that's my only problem with horse racing is like the fact that he's already out to stud.

Speaker 1 It's like, I want to see that horse race again and again and again. Yeah.
But that's a different discussion. Do you want to ask him if he's actually rooting for his brother? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 So

Speaker 1 I asked the brother this.

Speaker 6 Is there any like 1%, tiny, tiny percent of you sibling rivalry? Like, God, it'd be good to see him lose. No way.

Speaker 2 It's his time, man. This is like,

Speaker 2 he's had to deal with my stuff his whole life, like, especially his his playing career. And, like, we're best friends.
So, like,

Speaker 2 there's not like a fabric in my body or whatever that doesn't want to see him win on Monday night. Like, it would be the coolest thing.

Speaker 2 You know, my dad has always had his thing. You know, I had my thing.
I mean, he's paid his dues. I mean, he started as a high school coach.
Like, I worked with him for three years.

Speaker 2 So, as good a coach as I've been exposed to, like, he's in that category. Like, and I saw it like for years.
So, like, I knew this day was coming, and I just hope that he closes the deal.

Speaker 2 And, and, uh, you know, I'll be like, it's going to be hard to watch these games. Like, it was hard in Vegas.
Like, he made it easy because they were just dominating both games.

Speaker 2 But, you know, you live and die like every possession. Like, you know, the impact of everything.
You know, so as from a coaching standpoint.

Speaker 2 So that's what I'll be doing, you know, for those two hours tonight.

Speaker 1 It is, it is, I mean, perfectly put. Like, your dad, obviously, legendary high school coach.

Speaker 1 You had a legendary college career, and then your brother to be able to potentially win as a coach coach in the final four. Yeah, everyone gets their own thing.
You guys hog it all.

Speaker 1 Also, you earlies are just taking everything.

Speaker 6 You're great in blue chips, too. You're a performance of the social media.
That was awesome.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 One of the best basketball movies. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 You want a good story? I can tell you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 So we're in that movie, and they're shooting raw footage the whole time. And

Speaker 2 I'm on the Indiana team. I got the Indiana Jersey.
Bob Knight is the coach. And I'm being super fundamental.

Speaker 2 I'm throwing chess passes and bounce passes. I'm not throwing lobs over the shoulder, behind the back.
I'm keeping everything real simple for coach, you know, respect.

Speaker 2 So we shoot all the footage, and

Speaker 2 they needed one more shot. So the director comes in the huddle, and he says,

Speaker 2 All right, we need about 15, 20 minutes to set up the last play. So Penny Hardaway is going to throw the lob pass to Shaquille O'Neal.

Speaker 2 And then they win, and then that's how the movie ends, right? You've seen the movie.

Speaker 6 Yeah, it's a great, great movie.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 they set the shot up, get the cameras in place, get the crowd where they want them. The director comes in the huddle, tells Coach Knight, hey, you know, we're ready for you guys.

Speaker 2 Come on out and play defense. So he leaves.
As we're leaving the huddle to go play defense, Coach Knight says, don't let him get it.

Speaker 1 Grab him.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 they run the play.

Speaker 1 They're coaching it. They run the play, set the back screen.

Speaker 2 Shaq goes up the back screen. They throw the lob.
We grab Shaq. The ball goes out of bounds.
And

Speaker 2 the director's yelling, cut, cut, cut.

Speaker 2 So now they had to reset the whole shot again.

Speaker 1 But you guys won. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, we won that scrimmage, but like in the scrimmage game, we won, but like in the movie, that

Speaker 6 won that take. You guys won.
You guys won.

Speaker 1 Bobby Knight just won.

Speaker 1 They got to release that in ITZ's shoes.

Speaker 1 All right. Well, coach, this has been awesome.
Thank you so much for making time for us. We're big fans of the Hurley family, and we'll be rooting you on next year and your brother this weekend.

Speaker 2 I appreciate you guys. Enjoyed it, man.

Speaker 1 So, y'all know that we're big fans of Cracker Barrel. And this holiday season, I will be sat at their table with a big plate of country-fried turkey.
And Brandon, I'll be right there with you.

Speaker 5 And I'll check it off my Christmas list in the country store while I'm at it. It'll make a nice holiday tradition.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's so cute of you.

Speaker 5 Enjoy all the more holiday traditions only at Cracker Barrel.

Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 1 let's wrap up the show. We got Breaking Moose.

Speaker 2 Huge.

Speaker 1 Breaking Moose.

Speaker 1 Breaking Moose. Max.

Speaker 6 That's trash. God, that was terrible.

Speaker 1 Trash. Breaking Muse.

Speaker 1 Henry Lockwood is in hell right now. His flight to vacation in San Diego is 35 minutes delay.
Oh, no. Poor Hank.
That's terrible. And Hank's terrible.

Speaker 6 I know that he really wanted to be here for the show so much. But unfortunately, he had to play another round of golf and then go to the airport.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so we taped some golf videos this morning. One of them is going to come out and pardon my take on YouTube.
The The other is on MacroDosing YouTube.

Speaker 1 So we went and golfed with Arianne Foster today.

Speaker 1 And Hank could have changed his flight to come to St. Charles with us.
Lake Charles, sorry. Lake Charles with us.
Instead, he was like, why don't you guys go ahead? I'm going to play some more golf.

Speaker 1 You guys go work. I'm going to golf to prep for my vacation.
where I'm going to golf.

Speaker 6 Yeah, you know, you can't just go on a golf vacation without golfing before. Yeah.
And now some might say, but hey, guys, weren't you already golfing today?

Speaker 6 He wanted to play a full 36.

Speaker 1 He wanted to play without cameras.

Speaker 1 We were doing it for work. He was like, no, I'm going to stick back.
Make sure, I'm going to, you know what, guys? I'm going to close down this golf course real quick.

Speaker 1 Make sure all the lights are off and the doors are locked. You guys go ahead and keep working.

Speaker 6 Yeah, so credit to Hank. I know he did want to be here very, very much, but I guess his vacation got off to a rocky start.
Some would say karma. Yes.
I would not.

Speaker 1 I had a question for Max real quick.

Speaker 1 Max, we gotta, are you gonna, are you gonna take a bath in my outdoor bath here?

Speaker 1 I don't understand why this has turned into a thing. Because you said that you

Speaker 1 take baths on the road while watching your laptop, and I said that's the saddest thing ever, and you're like, that's not sad. And I was like, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 I also take baths, and I know how sad it looks because you got your fat belly, your little dick, you're peeing on yourself, and you're taking a bath. Well, I mean,

Speaker 1 I understand that the visual isn't great.

Speaker 1 It's not, it's not, but it's not like there's other people in there with me. I'm not looking at myself.
But now we're going to tape you taking a bath. Yes,

Speaker 6 when you stand up out of the bath and you look at, you get that first glimpse of yourself in the mirror and you have to think about what you've just done. That is a sad moment.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's not like every time I look at myself in the mirror, it's not necessarily the proudest moment. Listen, we're losing 20 pounds.
That's true.

Speaker 1 Memorial Day? Memorial Day. Losing 20 pounds by Memorial Day.

Speaker 1 We've done this before, but we're doing it it for real this time. We were walking on the golf course and Max just goes, losing 20 pounds by Memorial Day, and then just shakes my hand.

Speaker 1 I was like, why are you shaking my hand? It's all.

Speaker 1 He goes, I just want it to be on the record. No,

Speaker 6 by doing that, that means it's officially on. Yeah.
It's going to happen. You got to burn the boats.
Just burn the boats, Max. Just start slamming salads.
Rip a soup. Go to the soup and salad diet.

Speaker 6 It's a great diet. We're going to have Memorial Day abs.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, let's not

Speaker 1 get carried on. Abs is crazy.
Let's not get carried on. Come on.
Max and I are never real. Yeah.
abs are abs aren't real. No, um,

Speaker 1 but yeah, no, I'm gonna lose some weight. Uh, 20 pounds.
Baths are cool. Baths are relaxing.
Like, I'm not saying the baths aren't cool. I do take baths as well.

Speaker 1 I'm saying that we, like, I, all I said when you remarked that you watched a movie in the bath on Friday night, I was like, oh, that's a sad sight. So we, and you were like, what?

Speaker 1 And I was like, well, I, you and I look the same. Like, when I take a bath, if someone walked walked in and saw me taking a bath, they'd be like, ugh.
No, yeah, it's scary. Right.
So,

Speaker 1 it's not romantic. It's not cool.
I also want to say, like, the bathtubs at our hotel in Houston were fantastic bathtubs. They were the big jacuzzi ones.
They had jets. Oh, you got to do the jets.

Speaker 1 You got to do the jet.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because, like, I don't want you to think that you're just going into like the little

Speaker 1 shower. The little shower bath.

Speaker 6 If you knew how Max takes a bath, you'd be impressed with it. Max, you put like a lot of bubble bath in there, don't you?

Speaker 1 So I had this huge thing of body wash in there.

Speaker 1 Oh, hell yes. And I swear to it was like a

Speaker 1 massive yes, so that covers your gut. Yeah, so I squeezed literally probably 75% of this bottle like into the water as it was coming out.

Speaker 1 And it didn't give that much, it didn't give me that many bubbles. But then when I clicked the jets, it was bubble sip.
It was,

Speaker 1 I thought I always get it. It was like

Speaker 1 a washing machine when you put too much, too many suds in it. Baths are definitely cool.

Speaker 1 I don't want to sound like

Speaker 1 baths are. If you get stuck in a bath, baths are.
And you shouldn't pee on yourself. They're very tough.
But we all do.

Speaker 1 Sometimes a little squirts out. You get to relax.
I think what you say is don't jerk off on yourself in the bathroom. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But everyone's done that.

Speaker 6 Would never do that.

Speaker 1 Never, never do that.

Speaker 1 I plead the fifth. It definitely happens.
Plead the fifth. Well, then you then you pee afters to wash out the jerk off.

Speaker 1 That doesn't work.

Speaker 1 Those things. You can't do both of those things.
Well, yeah, you could pee after. after.
Yeah, and then it gets everywhere.

Speaker 1 No, you clean out the whole thing. Yeah, clean the pipes up.

Speaker 1 Well, yeah, no, I mean, yeah, no, it's a gross scene, dude.

Speaker 1 I just said when I take a bath, it's a gross fucking scene.

Speaker 6 I always imagine it's like a dragon breathing fire onto a crowd of people, but it's just urine killing millions of sperm. Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 No, that's especially if you're eating spicy food. Yeah.
Dead. Are you trying to kill sperm?

Speaker 6 Always. Well, yeah.

Speaker 1 What if someone scoops up, comes to your bath after? What if a woman sits in your bath bath after and gets it pregnant? Yeah, then I then I'm sitting here with a huge child.

Speaker 1 How do you think I have a third kid on? Yeah, yeah. It was the bath.
It was the bath. It was the bat.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 Let's kick it to ourselves. We got, oh, the golf videos.
So the part might take one out tomorrow.

Speaker 1 That was a joke. That was funny.
That was a joke. That was funny.
These guys work very hard. The editing is not easy.

Speaker 6 No, definitely don't tweet at Max and be like, when's the golf video come on in the morning?

Speaker 1 Don't dodge.

Speaker 1 I got your back, Max.

Speaker 6 Don't do that.

Speaker 1 They'll be out when they're out. Yep.
They'll be out when they're out. Golf videos take forever to edit.
I know. So that was Hank's.

Speaker 6 That's quite a goodbye for Hank. He's like, I'm not going to help with producing the podcast because I'm going on vacation, but also

Speaker 6 you're going to be stuck with having to edit me playing golf for the next week and a half.

Speaker 1 But do watch PM TV. Yeah, because we played a little bit of golf in the last week's PM TV.
There might be a little bit. You got that out pretty quick.
Well, that's, I mean, that was just like.

Speaker 1 We're traveling Monday and Tuesday. Wednesday will be the golf video.
Well, Thursday, no, no, no. Thursday, we might put a little bit of,

Speaker 1 there might be a little bit of golf content in this.

Speaker 6 Well, Max and Masters is weak and people are going to want to see that. They need more golf.

Speaker 6 I don't know.

Speaker 1 I'm not making any problems

Speaker 1 or anything. All right, let's kick it to ourselves back in studio.
See if Hank gets a lottery ball.

Speaker 1 Okay, lottery ball time. Hank, you ever gotten this?

Speaker 1 Nope. We're taping them all back to back.
You said that you didn't want to get it right now. Why?

Speaker 1 I just want to be in person.

Speaker 6 I want to get it in person.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, you could be. We're all here.
It's a Wednesday.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I could be, but I'm not.

Speaker 6 Yeah, it would actually suck if Hank got this one. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Maybe

Speaker 1 do a little self-evaluation on time off.

Speaker 1 I mean, I'm working. I just am doing meetings all day, so I work from home.

Speaker 1 If we're recording the podcast or how

Speaker 1 you kind of recorded a bunch of stuff. Yeah, you kind kind of just sprung this on me.
Oh, okay. All right.
Well, I wanted to give you a chance.

Speaker 1 You can X out right now. You don't have to be part of this.

Speaker 6 There was no way that Hank could have come into work today if you only give him 18 hours' notice. Right.

Speaker 1 Yeah. All right.
So you want, you want to. I know, I actually told Big Cat yesterday I wasn't coming in.
He was fine with it. If he said I need you in, I easily would have come in.

Speaker 1 Do you want to X out?

Speaker 1 Kind of. I mean, you guys are being rude.
You guys are being hostile. You guys are being hostile.
I'm not being hostile. I don't understand the hostile.
Do you still gotta this number?

Speaker 1 No. All right.
Do you want to X out? Kind of, yeah. All right.
So

Speaker 1 go ahead. You're out of here.

Speaker 1 Can I get like an umpire?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Bang.
See you, buddy. Do you want to sit and watch, though? You sit and watch.
Six. Oh, so he's guessing.
Okay.

Speaker 1 That's technically a false start. Yeah, that is a false start.
That's technically a false start. You left.

Speaker 1 What a baby.

Speaker 6 All right. I'm going to give him six.
All right.

Speaker 1 We'll give him six for this one. I'll go numbers.
I'll go 17. I'll go 76.

Speaker 6 99.

Speaker 1 Oh, he's asking to come back in.

Speaker 1 Ah, you knew he couldn't stay away. You knew he couldn't stay away.
You knew he couldn't stay away.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 you knew he couldn't stay away.

Speaker 1 That was a great...

Speaker 1 I know you're C-suite, but art of the deal, bro. I read it, and I just fucking bodied you in that.
All right, memes, which horse? 99. Is he keeping six? Yeah, he's keeping six.
It was a false start.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, but no one else picks six, so he gets six. Does

Speaker 1 18

Speaker 1 29

Speaker 1 new

Speaker 1 we're down to six and twenty six wow

Speaker 1 six and twenty six wow and and hank picks six he picked a new number new still couldn't get it right there's three of them he had a 33 chance of winning that one.

Speaker 1 What was the bet again if they all get picked before him? Well, no, he's just get, we were going to do that, but then he would just sit on one number.

Speaker 6 626, 29.

Speaker 1 Now 29. Wow.
A lot of people are going to be really happy.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Because they stick to the same number, the strategy we talked about.

Speaker 6 That's an understatement, Jake. People are going to be ecstatic.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Damn.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 We'll see everyone on Wednesday.

Speaker 6 Love you guys.

Speaker 2 Penguins give rocks like wedding gifts.

Speaker 2 It's actually needless to say,

Speaker 2 oh, say it's But we're stopping.

Speaker 2 She's not even learning the life is up there.

Speaker 2 Say after me.

Speaker 2 Life's no better to be safe than somebody. Say after me.

Speaker 2 Life's no better to be safe. It's not good.

Speaker 2 I'll keep you going

Speaker 2 through

Speaker 2 things that you say.

Speaker 2 Just a favorite worry in the way.

Speaker 2 You are the things I've got to do for

Speaker 2 shining all your leaves.

Speaker 2 Walking through the main lane.

Speaker 2 Shining on you.

Speaker 2 coming to you to make life.

Speaker 2 Take on me.

Speaker 2 Take on me. I will make

Speaker 2 you.

Speaker 2 a

Speaker 2 take on me

Speaker 2 Only

Speaker 2 take away