Cowboy Joe West, NBA Playoffs & NFL Draft Recap/Grades

Speaker 1 Hey, pardon my take, listeners. You can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.
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Speaker 1 On today's part of my take,

Speaker 1 Cowboy Joe West, the umpire that

Speaker 1 bothered all of us for many, many years, joins the show. Great interview.

Speaker 1 He doesn't take any shit. He doesn't take any shit, and it was a fun time to talk to him.
Some great stories told. We're going to talk a a little NBA at the start.

Speaker 1 We're going to talk a little who's back. And then after Cowboy Joe West, we're going to give out our draft grades and recap the Friday and Saturday of the NFL draft rounds two through seven.

Speaker 1 Great weekend of sports.

Speaker 4 When cool, creamy ranch meets tangy, bold buffalo. The hole is greater than the sum of its sauce.
Say howdy, partner, to new Buffalo Ranch Sauce, only at McDonald's for a limited time.

Speaker 4 And then I can't blame all of the sun.

Speaker 4 Oh no, we're gonna rise down to Electric Avenue.

Speaker 4 And then we'll take it higher.

Speaker 4 Oh, we're gonna rise down to Elan Trick IV.

Speaker 1 It's part of my take. There's another partial sports.

Speaker 1 Welcome to part of my take presented by Cross Country Mortgage. Today is Monday, May 2nd.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 the Celtics are dead.

Speaker 1 Oh, I was gonna say, those aren't the Nets. Those aren't the Nets.
No. Bucks are not the Nets.

Speaker 2 Tough break for Hank today. This was

Speaker 2 a rough way to start the series. Now, I think the next game becomes a must-win for you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, by the way, we're going to talk NFL draft after Cowboy Joe West. We're going to do NBA and Who's Back and talk about the fight at Madison Square Garden that we all were at.

Speaker 1 But let's start with Celtics Bucks. Not to be reductive, Hank, but turns out being tall matters.

Speaker 5 Being tall matters. I might have been a little bit overconfident.
I probably should have

Speaker 5 not underestimated Bobby Portis.

Speaker 1 Dude, crazy eyes. But with that being said,

Speaker 2 Bobby Portis puts on those tactical glasses.

Speaker 1 Dude, he looks awesome. I saw a tweet during the game.
Someone was like, Bobby Portis has had his glasses sitting on the scorers table. He was sitting out somewhere for a couple minutes.

Speaker 1 And I'm surprised no one has tried to steal it. And I was like, wait.
Yeah, why didn't anyone try to steal it? This is the playoffs.

Speaker 2 Absolutely steal it. Throw it into the stands.

Speaker 2 What is the deal with the glasses? What makes them so much better? Does he think he can see it?

Speaker 2 Is there like a heads-up display on it where he's like, it's like virtual reality or like reality augmenting glasses where his teammates get highlighted in green and his thinners get it highlighted in red?

Speaker 1 That would be sick. He did get, he got poked in the eye in the Bulls series, so I think it's preventive or whatever the word would be.

Speaker 1 It's not, yeah, I guess it is to get it, to get more poked in the eye.

Speaker 2 It's like when Real Waterson, when he broke his nose, he put the mask on, and then he was like a different dude with the mask. I think Portis just has to keep the glasses.

Speaker 1 Even he does have crazy eyes. But yeah, Hank, turns out height matters.

Speaker 1 It's game one. Let's not overreact.
But I was thinking about it and I was like, yeah,

Speaker 1 it does seem like the Bucs are just way bigger. And then I looked at the actual height and they have three starters that are bigger than anyone who plays any minutes on the Celtics.

Speaker 1 Bobby Portis, Giannis, and Lopez are all over 6'10. And turns out in basketball, height matters.

Speaker 2 Well, if you're going to go up against a team that's running all big, you have to be able to shoot. You have to make your jump shots.
Well, they were doing. And so do you guess.

Speaker 2 Guess how many two-point field goals the Celtics made?

Speaker 1 I saw the tweet, so I saw Kirk Goldsbury, our friend. So I don't, did anyone not see it and wants to guess? I don't want to just give it away because I also know it.
Hank?

Speaker 5 10. Yes.

Speaker 1 They made exactly 10. You said you didn't.
The lowest amount in Celtics history. So Kirk Goldsbury said

Speaker 1 the Celtics have never, as a franchise, had less than 14 two-point field goals made in a game. They had 10 today.
They've played 6,630 total games. So that was what I was going to say.

Speaker 5 Like spin zone is I would much rather lose a game where you play like absolute dog shit and you couldn't play worse than lose a game where you're playing really well and the other team just beats you.

Speaker 5 Like the Celtics played so bad. Jalen Brown was so bad.
Jason Tatum didn't play well. No one was playing well.

Speaker 1 Their defensive plan was very, very good. They basically were like, go ahead and shoot threes.

Speaker 1 And anytime you get in the paint, we're just going to be taller and bigger than you and make sure that Jason Tatum doesn't have the ball in his hands. Did the Giannis pass to himself? Did that hurt?

Speaker 1 Because he basically, Giannis is so good. He had a triple-double.

Speaker 1 He had that pass off the backboard where it was just an NBA All-Star game. He was just...
Like that was, that was a

Speaker 1 big brother, little brother.

Speaker 2 It was emasculating. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That was, that was a, I can do anything I want. Watch me do this cool chip.

Speaker 2 I kind of agree with Hank, though, that if, so, like, the first game of the Nets series when the Celtics were playing the Nets, the Nets losing that close game felt like real bad.

Speaker 2 It's like that's a game that you should have won. In this one, you can burn the tape and be like, that's an aberration.
We're going to be a completely different team.

Speaker 2 And that is how the Bucs play defense, just in general. I think they had the most three-pointers attempted against them by far of any team.

Speaker 1 The Celtics broke a franchise record by missing and shooting a million for three-pointers. I have a spin zone for you, too, Hank.
I actually think that that was a must-win for the Bucs.

Speaker 1 With Chris Middleton's injury, not having home court advantage, like the Bucs needed that win. If the Celtics win on Tuesday night, I don't think that's...

Speaker 1 I think this, I already think the series is going seven, so I wouldn't freak out. But it was...

Speaker 1 The pass off the backboard hurt.

Speaker 2 It was tough.

Speaker 2 I also think that in a weird way, Marcus Smart... gets better the more injured he gets.
Yeah. Because he needs to find stuff to like be pissed off about.

Speaker 2 And now it's like, okay, it's me against my own body. He's like the, he had two injuries, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 He had the shoulder, and then he also hurt his leg on the same play, like the night in Monty Python, where he's like, it's just a flesh wound. I got this.

Speaker 2 he's gonna get fired up because the story is gonna be like can Marcus Smart overcome this tremendous amount of pain he's gonna have to play through right and Marcus is gonna be like fuck yeah I can do this yeah I can do this I have two questions for you Hank one is a Marcus Smart question

Speaker 5 the green hair how do we feel about it when things aren't going well he needs to it was it looks sick when it's cornrowed Yeah, he like took out the cornrows and it and it looks kind of crazy.

Speaker 1 Well, it's also just like it's

Speaker 5 like when it's when it's the beads like it looks it looks badass.

Speaker 1 And it's cool when you're winning and if you're losing it's not as cool the other question i had for you grayson allen still a fan yeah i mean how can he not be

Speaker 1 i was just watching him flop on that three-pointer and i was just the whole time i was thinking like i hope i hope hank is happy how cute and awesome he thought grayson allen was it was like marcus does the same shit he's the most annoying person in the world the announcers are really going through the checklist of like sneaky athletic like he's actually like an athletic dude

Speaker 2 it was it was the perfect grayson allen play too because he he not only flopped on the three-pointer, but he also stuck out his leg to try to trip the guy.

Speaker 1 He kind of kicked the guy.

Speaker 2 He kicked the guy and then turned that into a flop on the same play. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So? That's Duke. How are you feeling?

Speaker 5 I feel like that was as bad of a game as you could play. I think Jalen Brown was nowhere to be found.

Speaker 5 If they play like that, they're going to lose a series 4-0, but I don't think they're going to play like that next game.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 2 in a stay classy for the entire city of Boston, mini womping's still on the table.

Speaker 1 Mini.

Speaker 2 The mini wamp is still there. Did you see this, Hank? This is from Jared Weiss NBA.
That's his Twitter handle. You can tell he knows ball because his Twitter handle is Jared Weiss NBA.

Speaker 2 He said, He does know Ball. He said, of course, Celtics fans Bugianis, even though he's the most lovable player in the league.
How dare you?

Speaker 1 How dare you?

Speaker 1 That's grasping right there.

Speaker 2 Hank, this is classic Boston sports fans.

Speaker 1 How can you not cheer him in a playoff series?

Speaker 2 In the playoffs series, the guy that is going to eliminate you from the playoffs if he plays well, how can you not throw rose petals at his feet, Hank?

Speaker 1 It's disgusting.

Speaker 1 Hank is disgusting. Speak for your city, Hank.

Speaker 5 Hank's shocked. I mean, obviously, yeah, I don't know.
I don't know how to answer this.

Speaker 1 You disavow?

Speaker 5 No, I don't disavow it.

Speaker 1 You boom harder. Boom.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. Boom harder.
I love that that's harder.

Speaker 2 We've gotten to the point where it's like booing your opponents is actually bad.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's mean.

Speaker 1 Don't do that.

Speaker 2 As an empath, you should not be booing other people.

Speaker 1 Big time empath energy.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that was a tough game, Hank. But I think this series, like this.

Speaker 5 Celtics never got it going, though. That's the only thing where it wasn't like, oh, they're going to go on a run.
They're playing well. Like, they played like shit all game.

Speaker 1 I have another spin zone for you.

Speaker 5 Just throw out the table.

Speaker 1 I got you another spin zone. I don't think there's a harder transition going from playing the Nets to playing the Bucs because the Bucs play defense.
They have an identity.

Speaker 1 They actually have a game plan on defense. And they're really, really tall.
Whereas the Nets were like, hey, let's just try to shoot this.

Speaker 1 our way to victory and not play any defense and not protect the rim. So there you go.
That was like night and day.

Speaker 1 It's probably a very, it's a shock to the system to have to play the Milwaukee Bucks after a series against the Brooklyn Nets. Boom.

Speaker 5 Fun fact, Pat Conaton grew up in Massachusetts.

Speaker 1 Dude, that's a very fun fact. Yeah, he's also a recurring guest.

Speaker 1 And if the Bucs win it again, we'll have him back on.

Speaker 5 Yeah, mention that like 25 times.

Speaker 1 Did they?

Speaker 1 I had to have it on mute because

Speaker 1 I was doing parenting, and so I had to pretend I wasn't watching, but I was watching. So I missed all the...
Who was doing the call?

Speaker 1 No, it wasn't Mark. Oh, Mark Jackson, by the way.

Speaker 5 Doris Burke, and I don't know who the

Speaker 1 LeBron James for actually getting Mark Jackson a job.

Speaker 2 He's going to go to the Kings.

Speaker 1 Kings, yeah. And I think Rosillo said that.
I think Russillo had the theory correctly that it was like LeBron doesn't actually want Mark Jackson as a coach.

Speaker 1 Klutch just wants Mark Jackson to coach, period. So if they throw it out there, someone will have it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and also LeBron James is probably pumped to be playing against Mark Jackson so many times in a year. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's like, yeah, can we preferably get him like as close to where I play as possible so I can just dunk on him?

Speaker 1 So, prediction, Hank. I'm actually also happy because I was thinking about betting the Celtics to win the title, and this now gives me a better price.

Speaker 2 So I appreciate that. Where's the panic button?

Speaker 5 Nowhere to be found.

Speaker 2 Nowhere. You don't even have a panic button.

Speaker 5 I'm still like, the mini whomping button is still out.

Speaker 2 Are you looking up reviews online, like product reviews for the panic button? Are you just like completely, it doesn't exist in your world?

Speaker 1 He hasn't put the mini whomping away. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Win game two and get on a roll. They haven't found their game, and if they find it, then it's it's gonna be a wrap.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, that's the that's what the Bucs are gonna continue to do.

Speaker 2 They did a good job.

Speaker 1 You have to just hold on to the game.

Speaker 5 They did a good job on Giannis. Like Giannis didn't

Speaker 1 have a triple double job. Yeah, he did have a triple double.

Speaker 2 I mean, Giannis is the guy in the NBA where, like, if he is playing well, there's literally nothing that you can do. Yeah.
There's nothing.

Speaker 2 The only thing you can do to defend Giannis is if you got his brother, gave him a bunch of steroids, and then just used his own genes against him. Yeah.
Because

Speaker 2 there's no other person and player in the NBA that's that's that big, that strong, and that talented.

Speaker 1 I wonder, I think that we've all decided that Giannis is the best player in the NBA right now. Like, I don't know if that's a debate anymore.

Speaker 1 It does feel like after every game, people have to debate it. I think that's just because Giannis is too nice.
If he was meaner, I don't think it would be a debate. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Like, he's he like people still are holding back, like, oh, yeah, but this guy's got the killer gene.

Speaker 2 But Giannis has the killer gene.

Speaker 1 He's just, we'll also kill you and then say a dad joke afterwards.

Speaker 2 No, Giannis is like,

Speaker 2 he is a guy that is so nice that if you leave him off, if you don't mention him in the MVP conversation, he'll be like, yeah, you know what? You've got a tough job to do.

Speaker 2 That's really hard to decide who the MVP is. I'm glad that you picked one of those other guys.
They're very talented.

Speaker 1 And then tell like a knock-knock joke. Yeah, and everyone will laugh and then it'll run away.

Speaker 2 Joel and Biade will just be like, yo, that's trash. They didn't vote for me.
You're a trash human.

Speaker 1 Shout out to Joel Embiid for doing a better job than the doctors because after he got his face broken against the Raptors on whatever night that was, Wednesday night? No, Thursday night.

Speaker 1 Thursday night? Yeah, Thursday. Thursday.
In the post-game, he's like, I think I broke my face. And it turns out he did.
So that sucks for Phil.

Speaker 2 Can you not play with a broken face?

Speaker 1 I think it's kind of hard. You know, it's kind of hurt.

Speaker 2 You don't shoot with your face, though.

Speaker 1 I mean, yeah, he shoots with his hand, which is also broken. That's true.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the wrist and the face together. That's tough.

Speaker 1 He is the Monty Python guy.

Speaker 2 I feel like you should be able to play with a broken face. You put the mask on, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 You do hold it that way. Orbital bone, I don't know.

Speaker 1 That's your eye socket. Yeah, I imagine that hurts every time you step.

Speaker 2 Or you sneeze? Yeah. That's probably the worst.

Speaker 1 And yeah, heat culture would definitely go for his face.

Speaker 2 Yeah. They take him out.
Me personally, I would play with a broken face. I'm just built different.

Speaker 1 I would too. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 You could break both my eyes. I'd still play.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think if I broke my face, my day-to-day life would not be any different than it is right now.

Speaker 1 I don't know. I'm trying to think.

Speaker 1 ACL, I'd still play. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Broken ankle, I'd still play. I gut it out.

Speaker 2 Sprained ankle, no.

Speaker 1 Sprained ankle, no. High ankle sprain, no.
Low ankle sprain, yes.

Speaker 2 Kidney stones, yes. Didn't miss a podcast, either one of us.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no.

Speaker 1 Birth of a child, don't miss a podcast.

Speaker 2 Jones fracture, didn't miss a podcast.

Speaker 1 Slip disc, play. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I don't, I'd say we're way tougher than any player in any league.

Speaker 2 Yeah, face is nothing. You must walk a face off.
Yeah, dude.

Speaker 1 You know what you do with a face? You fucking, you go and get a bucket of ice and you put your face in it for a minute. And not only is it fixed, but you look a a lot skinnier.
Yep.

Speaker 2 So that's it. It's pretty basic stuff, Joel.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, so Minnie Whopping's still out. Not worried at all.
I think the series is going to go the distance. I also think this is going to be a great test of has Jason Tatum fully arrived?

Speaker 1 Because he will take over some of these games and then we'll be like, oh, yeah, he's really fucking good.

Speaker 1 That's my prediction. But I don't know who the fuck's going to win this series because it is going to be, I think it's going to go seven.

Speaker 1 And then we should talk Warriors, Grizzlies.

Speaker 1 Well, I don't know where to start because I'm still upset. I had Warriors minus two.

Speaker 5 Grizzlies, Timberwolves, too, quickly from the game.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, that was a crazy ending to that game.

Speaker 1 So that actually is perfect for this game because it turns out that the Warriors do know how to close out a game, unlike the Timberwolves, who Carl Anthony Towns, that three-point shot will just live in my head forever.

Speaker 2 He's a psycho.

Speaker 1 And there were people who were defending it being like, we've never seen a big man shoot this well. It's like, dude, he shot like four seconds into a shot clock.

Speaker 1 He shot a 35-footer when all they needed was a bucket. And every time he was in the post, they were doubling him.

Speaker 1 And someone did point out, Timberwolves fan did point out, you can double Carl Anthony Towns because half the time he'll throw a pass like 10 rows up, which is fair.

Speaker 1 But that Timberwolves, like, I guess you just say they're so young and dumb that

Speaker 1 that was a series where they'll grow from it. But I was disappointed.
I wanted a game set.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, you do learn more from your mistakes than you do from your victories, right?

Speaker 2 That's what they always say and they made so many mistakes in that series they're either going to come back next year and be like really smart figure out how to win in the playoffs or they're just that's who they are and they're going to continue to be i hope that they continue to be the dumbest in b team because the games that they play in are it's like you've never seen a game in basketball before they blew they blew i think four Three fourth quarter leads in that series, and they did it in spectacular fashion.

Speaker 1 It was a 10-point lead going in the fourth quarter, and I bet the Timberwolves, I was like, yeah, this is not going to be a win. Yeah.

Speaker 2 No chance. But I think just either one of those teams, the Grizzlies or the T-Wolves, they're just going to be the fun team to watch, regardless.

Speaker 1 Chaotic energy.

Speaker 2 This game had a lot of chaotic energy. Draymond Green got ejected on a play where he fouled the guy.
It was actually, it was the perfect Draymond Green play. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because he smacked a guy in the face, grabbed his jersey, threw him down onto the ground, fouled him twice on the same play, and then got kicked out of the game, ran around the arena, basically flipping off the crowd.

Speaker 2 Which is awesome. And then he ran into the tunnel and went and recorded a podcast.
Yeah. That's the Draymond Green hat truck.

Speaker 1 It's the perfect...

Speaker 1 And the Warriors won. Yeah.
Which is like the craziest part because you think like, oh, no, they're in trouble with him out. But yeah,

Speaker 1 that was a soft, flagrant too, but it also is one of those situations where Draymond Green has a reputation, so... They're always going to call it that way.
Yeah, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 It was probably the right call to make, but it was very funny because right before that happened, Jeff Van Gundy was just deep-throating him.

Speaker 2 Just being like, you know what Draymond Green has done with his game? He's gotten a lot smarter. He does all the little things correctly that helps you win games.

Speaker 2 And then like two seconds later, he was just mugging a guy, just ripping his jersey off, throwing him onto the ground.

Speaker 1 Yes. But yeah, it was a crazy game.
The ending,

Speaker 1 I'm happy that there's less reviews in the end of game situations, but it was not fun that the ref just, both refs, or all three refs just decided

Speaker 1 we don't have the balls to make a call here on the out of bounds with like six seconds left. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And they did a jump ball instead after clay thompson missed both free throws which i mean he was he 90 on the year yeah crazy so at that end of the end of the uh game call that you were talking about when it's it wasn't even that close of a call to me no you just have to say we talk about players not being clutch all the time those refs are not clutch they were cowards that was a clutch moment where you have to step up and make a call and they choked they choked away that go they just kind of the ball went out of bounds and then you see all the refs look at each other and there's that look on their face like oh my god i hope this other guy has the call call, and nobody did.

Speaker 2 You can't do a jump ball. No, you can't do a jump ball there.

Speaker 1 No, when it was so clear,

Speaker 1 I think this might be a whomping.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 that was the perfect setup for the Grizzlies. I know that it was emotional to come back after two days after winning a game seven or six in Minnesota, but Steph was in foul trouble.

Speaker 1 Clay was in foul trouble. Draymond got kicked out before the halftime.
Jaron Jackson hit like all his threes. John Morant shot well, and they still lost.

Speaker 2 They could have won too at the end. I know, but John Morant had a look that he wanted.

Speaker 1 I just feel like that was the game. Like, they had everything going their way from a ref perspective, and Draymond being out

Speaker 1 to not win it.

Speaker 2 Their player of the night from last week, Billy Basketball's player of the night, Zebo was courtside. Yep.

Speaker 1 They had everything.

Speaker 1 It is an awesome arena and crowd, but I don't know. I think there might be a whomping in place here.

Speaker 2 It's just not the same when they don't play the games inside the Bass Pro shop, inside the pyramid.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Fun weekend, though. That'd be a fun Sunday.
I wish there was a game on Saturday.

Speaker 1 We do have, by the way, people are like, hey, the Stanley Cup playoffs are about to start, and we're going to have Biz for an extended portion on Tuesday.

Speaker 1 He's going to stick around for guys on chicks, so get your questions in. I am just, there's some people who are calling me a turncoat because I'm rooting for Canada.
I don't...

Speaker 1 The Blackhawks are one of the worst teams in the NHL.

Speaker 1 Why would I root for another team? I'm just rooting for Canada. Yeah, so

Speaker 2 I'm rooting for my pocketbook. First and foremost, obviously, the Capitals.
It's a bummer that we're playing against the Panthers because I wanted to go to the garden.

Speaker 2 I wanted to go see some playoff games at the Mecca and just Florida. You talk about a whomping.
I feel like Florida is just going to whomp everybody.

Speaker 2 So I am rooting for the Capitals, obviously, but then I've got the Leafs as my one future, but the other that I put in is the Rangers.

Speaker 2 And the narrative that I want to get going, we'll talk to Biz about this, obviously, but I think that now that the Rangers don't have Lundquist anymore and they've got a clutch playoff goalie, this is what they've been missing over all the years.

Speaker 2 And this guy, Igor, is going to get him to the top.

Speaker 1 Wait, so let me get this straight. So the Rangers play where?

Speaker 2 They play at the Mecca.

Speaker 1 Okay, they play at Madison Square Garden, and their best player forever is out or done, gone. Gone.

Speaker 1 And now they're going to win it all? There's got to be a theory for that.

Speaker 2 No, I don't think so.

Speaker 2 It's a thing that I made up where it's like you miss a team from New York loses their best player and then they actually get better as a team because the focus isn't all about this one guy.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I had it in baseball, which was the Bryce harpothesis,

Speaker 2 where after we got rid of him, then the Nats win the title. Yep.
So I'll.

Speaker 1 Yeah, think about it. Think about it.
Think about it with something with hockey.

Speaker 1 But yeah, I'm going. I have Leafs, Flames, and Oilers, and you can bet them all in the Barcelon Sportsbook plus 330 for any of them to win.
I'm bringing it home.

Speaker 1 I just want, like, it would be cool if Canada won a cup. It's been, what, 40 years or something?

Speaker 2 It's coming home. It's coming home.

Speaker 5 I'm excited for the Bruins. Obviously excited to watch my first hockey cup.

Speaker 1 You're a huge hockey guy, yep.

Speaker 5 Yeah, well, it's, yeah, it's about the time to start tuning in. But the other one I put a huge bet on when we were talking about Minnesota sports and all the unluckiness is the wild.

Speaker 5 I put a huge future on the wild. I'll be pulling with the wild fans.

Speaker 2 I want to see it's that, those are the best sports stories.

Speaker 1 It's close to Canada.

Speaker 5 Those are the best sports stories.

Speaker 1 It's basically Canada.

Speaker 5 Cursed teams, cursed franchises, cursed cities.

Speaker 1 But isn't, wouldn't you say that, like, Canada is a cursed country when it comes to Stanley Cups? When was the last time they won a cup? Like 94, 93?

Speaker 2 I'm trying to remember because I did have to memorize this for the dozen a couple months ago.

Speaker 5 I love our country. What can I say?

Speaker 6 I don't think Minnesota's even won a cup.

Speaker 1 No, they definitely haven't. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So weird.

Speaker 6 That's where all the hockey players come from, but they've never won a cup.

Speaker 1 1993, the Canadiens.

Speaker 1 That's the last time. Well, they don't draft just from regional.

Speaker 5 And Canada probably has.

Speaker 1 Canada does have a lot of hockey players. That's a fact.

Speaker 6 If you grow up in that area, don't you want to play for the home team?

Speaker 2 Yeah, but see, they have this thing called the draft. Yeah.
And so the teams all select from a giant pool of players across the country, and they make them move to their cities.

Speaker 1 But more importantly, they have a salary cap, too. I think most guys want to play for the most money they can.

Speaker 2 Yeah, there's money that's involved, too. So between money and free agency in the draft,

Speaker 2 then you can see how it might be difficult for hometown guys to play for their teams.

Speaker 6 But also, they do have preferences in negotiations.

Speaker 1 Right, but under that same thinking, Toronto would win every Stanley Cup, no?

Speaker 2 With the Canadian dollar,

Speaker 2 When you look at a magazine or a book, the Canadian money is always higher, so they technically get paid more money to play in Canada. Shocking they haven't won.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Finance.

Speaker 1 But yeah, we're going to do a full Stanley Cup playoff preview with Biz on Tuesday, which will be a game in, but that's okay.

Speaker 1 I also love the Stanley Cup. I mean, who doesn't love the Stanley Cup playoffs?

Speaker 1 But it's such a refreshing thing to look at the schedule and have it not be the NBA schedule where where it's like every other night.

Speaker 1 You just know, like, all right, we're going to get in the series and we're going to fucking do this thing.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I need to start like, we need to do some sort of like endurance training because you forget how late those Stanley Cup playoff games go sometimes when they get overtime.

Speaker 2 And there's like always one three overtime game and it keeps you up until like 2 a.m. I'm not physically ready for that yet.

Speaker 1 And the one, like the one thing I, dumb, stupid idiot me, the biggest future I put was the flames and they play out west.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's tough. I'm fucked.
That's tough.

Speaker 1 Absolutely fucked. All right, anything else from, we're going to talk about the fight and who's back.
Anything else from NBA or hockey? Shout out to Mets. They got a no-hitter.
Good job.

Speaker 1 We're going to do the whole draft recap after we have Joe West, which is an incredible interview.

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Speaker 1 Hank, who's back of the week?

Speaker 5 The New England Patriots are back in a big way.

Speaker 1 Are you doing draft talk?

Speaker 5 No, I was going to mention that, you know,

Speaker 5 people might have. No,

Speaker 5 it wasn't technically draft related.

Speaker 1 Have you gotten your Bailey Zappi jersey yet?

Speaker 5 There was a lot of hate.

Speaker 5 No, but I heard, you know, he's a cover machine.

Speaker 1 Dude, the greatest covering quarterback of all time.

Speaker 5 Love that.

Speaker 1 Well, Bailey Zappi is a beast. But I did see that.
He kind of has a noodle arm.

Speaker 5 And I don't really follow, you know, I'm not a huge draft nick. I don't care too much about what the people that cover the drafts say, but I saw some bad grades for the Patriots draft.

Speaker 5 We'll get into that later.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 5 OBJ first reported that we're getting Debo.

Speaker 5 So we're going to be, you know, unbelievable. Yeah, so he said on Saturday night, breaking news, 19 problems to the Patriots, WTF, FFFF.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think it's pretty clear what happened there, which is just Odell Beckham got fucked up. And then he just decided that he was going to start rumors.

Speaker 1 I just believe it. That's exactly.
Yeah, I tried to get him on the podcast because he responded to my, I don't know why he picked mine out, but he said, what was your tweet?

Speaker 1 I was like, it's good to know. It's good to see that

Speaker 1 star athletes, like multi-million dollar star athletes are just like us and get bored and just decide to troll on Twitter. Because that's really what he was doing.

Speaker 1 He was bored and he was like, oh, I'm just going to get everyone upset by tweeting about this that's not going to happen. I think it's going to happen.

Speaker 1 He literally said he was trolling, though. But like Timo was like, stop, dude.

Speaker 2 Speaking into his family, he definitely heard something from somebody, right? Like somebody made a phone call. And so then Odell was like, you know what? I'm fucked up.

Speaker 2 Like, I can, I'm pretty good at identifying, even if there are no typos in a tweet. I can always tell when somebody's drunk, when they send a tweet.
Yeah. That was the tweet of a drunk man.

Speaker 1 Well, he said back to me, I'm a good dude with four E's. I just love BSing with like five G's like the rest of us.
Serious when I need to be, all the emotions like the rest of us. Sorry for the jokes.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Low-key hikey fucked up.
Yeah.

Speaker 6 He's the king of shit posting. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. That's good, really.
That's a good joke.

Speaker 1 That was very good.

Speaker 1 But yeah,

Speaker 1 that kind of got everyone going crazy. And then obviously all the

Speaker 1 I loved watching all the reporters quote treat it and be like, no. Yeah, this is not true.
So like Seth thinks they got caught.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they're more plugged in.

Speaker 2 Somebody was just like, this is not true. I think it was Tom Pelisaro.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And Rapper Board said, uh, no. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Although I would, I would love to see how Bill Belichick would use him in that sense. The offense would just be Debo Samuel.
Yes. He'd probably have Debo Samuel playing playing quarterback.
Yes.

Speaker 2 And just be like, okay, Debo gets the ball every play. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So maybe you spoke it into existence, Hank.
I think so. Okay.
PFT year, who's back?

Speaker 2 It's kind of draft related, but it's.

Speaker 1 That's okay.

Speaker 2 Let's dip it. Texas.
Texas is back. Texas football is officially back.

Speaker 2 When I say back, I mean back to where they were in 2014, when for the only time in the last 70 years, they went through an entire NFL draft where they did not have a player taken.

Speaker 2 How is that possible?

Speaker 2 Like, the Big 12 had a down year in general in terms of people that got drafted they're retooling bijan robinson is going to be a high draft pick next year he will be he will be so there are a couple guys that they're going to reload with and i'm sure they'll be fine next year but it's just very funny to me how like how how is that even possible for the university of texas to to be so bad at college football it's that you can't get anyone drafted it's very very hard and i like it makes me think that thank god that i root for a team that i just know there'll always at least be an alignment yeah Like I'm always okay because I won't have to deal with that embarrassment.

Speaker 2 Yeah, something needs to change in Austin.

Speaker 2 It's very funny, though, watch because they still think that they are the Yankees. Yeah.
And you talk to Texas football fans, it's like,

Speaker 2 we're not dead. We're going to come back and we do.
We're going to be like Alabama.

Speaker 1 Think about that, too. Like the...

Speaker 1 Like... Just the difference between Alabama and Texas or Georgia, who had, what, five players in the first round? Yeah.
And Texas had zero in seven rounds?

Speaker 2 Well, people in Austin still blame nick saban or his wife you know who you should really blame because there was that rumor that like nick saban's wife was house shopping in austin yeah when he was just very clearly trying to drive the price of his contract to alabama up blame the realtor that took her on like what kind of shitty houses was she shown on that trip to make her be like no i'd rather live in tuscaloosa than austin texas yeah i we should have like a there should be an alert zillow should be able to spy on coaches wives agreed she's being like yeah she she just popped up zillow here for no reason agreed because who doesn't just go on zillow randomly Yeah, sometimes it just Google coaches' wives.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. My who's back is

Speaker 1 I have two who's back.

Speaker 1 One is

Speaker 1 Nick Foles is back. He's back on the free agent market.
He's been released by the Bears. It was very funny, like the wording of it.

Speaker 1 It was like Nick Foles appreciates what the Bears did here because basically they tried to trade him for two years and they couldn't.

Speaker 1 But it also, it is the end of, I guess Justin Fields still counts, but Ryan Pace, I went back and looked.

Speaker 1 Post-Cutler, he had five years. He signed five quarterbacks.
Justin Fields is part of this for a total of $90 million. Mike Glennon, he paid $18.5 million to.
Mitch Trubisky, $29 million.

Speaker 1 Nick Foles, $21. Andy Dalton, $10.
Justin Fields, $11. So that was all under Ryan Pace.

Speaker 1 That's actually impressive to be able to do that. Five different quarterbacks starting a game in a five-year span.

Speaker 2 It's very classy, too. Well, I mean, as a Commanders fan, I've had several years where it's like 10 in the span of three years.

Speaker 2 It's impressive that most of those guys are high-priced guys, though. Yeah.
Like, to be able to sign that many people for over $10 million each, like,

Speaker 2 that's a lot of whiffs. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's a ton of whiffs.

Speaker 2 But it was very classy the way that they said goodbye to him. Yeah.
So thanks for all the memories, Nick. Thanks, Nick.

Speaker 1 You're free to go. Hopefully, he'll probably go win a Super Bowl, knowing the Bears.
Like,

Speaker 1 he will go latch on somewhere else and then win a Super Bowl.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Commanders Commanders would sign him.
You have to get the gang back together.

Speaker 1 Why not? Johnny Carson. Yeah, why not? Just breathing down his neck.
And then my other who's back is John Skipper. I saw him at Madison Square Garden.

Speaker 1 He looked at me and then walked the other way, but I hadn't seen him since we met with him and he canceled Barstool Van Talk. It was too bad because

Speaker 1 I had a long day of parenting on Saturday, so I really could have used the bumps. So I wish I had been able to talk to him.
But he's back. He's back.
Billy.

Speaker 6 My who's back is boxing. There's a huge fight at Madison Square Garden.
The one we were at. Exactly.

Speaker 6 I want to hear your guys' takes, but Amanda Serranos versus Katie Taylor went the full rounds, went to a decision. It was a slug fest.
The last 30 seconds were electric, just absolute slug fest.

Speaker 6 I think what we saw on the last Jake Paul card with Amanda Serranos on it is that those fights are extremely electric in women's boxing.

Speaker 6 And it was the first headline by women fighters at Madison Square Garden. It's 140-year history.
That wasn't the only women's fight that night.

Speaker 6 There was also Franchion Cruz Desern, who beat Ellen Sederos for the super welterweight

Speaker 1 champion.

Speaker 2 That was another slug fest. Yes.
So women's boxing on the up and up.

Speaker 1 So we were all there. It was one of the coolest environments.
It was the fans.

Speaker 1 It was probably, what would you guys say? 70% Irish, 30% Puerto Rican fans? I think it was closer. It was more in the middle.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was closer to 50-50. And both fan bases were like, so I bet on Serrano.
And then before the fight, we were around a bunch of Irish people that were all drunk as fuck and waving flags.

Speaker 2 And I was like, I wish that I had bet

Speaker 2 on

Speaker 2 Kay Taylor because I want to be able to root with these fun-loving Irish people when if she eventually won.

Speaker 2 But then the Puerto Rican people around me, they were essentially just like the Irish people dancing and having a great time. It was an incredible environment in there.

Speaker 2 And it was, I mean, it's the best fight that I've ever seen live in person.

Speaker 1 It It was awesome. It was, there's nothing like a big fight feel, and it just lived up to like the walk-ins were awesome.
Katie Taylor's song wasn't great, um, kind of put everyone to sleep.

Speaker 1 She's got to have bagpipes or something, and she was like,

Speaker 1 was ready for it.

Speaker 5 Yeah, the Serrano's walk-in was unbelievable, incredible. So, I was, and then it was like, all right, bagpipes, like, she's going to come with some bagpipes, and people are going to lose their mind.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 1 She had, like, a very slow, like, I kept waiting for it to drop.

Speaker 2 I kept waiting for like the real music to start

Speaker 1 during her walk-in. Yeah, but it was, it was an awesome, awesome experience.
I do think that it was closer than, I think, whatever. I've been on Amanda Serrano, too.

Speaker 1 That fifth round,

Speaker 1 she almost had her, but Katie Taylor's incredible.

Speaker 2 She got stronger the more she got punched in the face.

Speaker 1 Yeah, her stamina was insane. So, yeah, that was a really, really fun night.

Speaker 5 PFT got robbed, kind of.

Speaker 2 I did get robbed, yeah, by the mad lads.

Speaker 2 So, this was wild. So, I go to the concession stand, and Hank is like kind of behind me a little bit.
I think you had already gotten your food, but I'm I'm waiting to get mine and

Speaker 2 the guy takes my ID because I ordered two beers and a sandwich. He looks at my ID.
My ID turns out it's expired by like a month. So he's like, I can't sell this to you.

Speaker 2 And the guy that's behind me in line is with a group of like four other Irish guys. He's this Irish dude, drunk as shit.
And he's like, I'm paying for your sandwich. I'm paying for your beers.

Speaker 2 Put it on my tab. And so they like put it on his tab.
And then

Speaker 2 he leaned in gave me a big kiss on the cheek like a wet kiss on the cheek. He's like, this lad's crazy.

Speaker 2 This lad's insane i don't know i didn't know what was going on so he ends up ordering like 200 worth of beer and he's like i'm paying for all of it they serve all our beer to us and then i'm waiting on my sandwich and there's a big commotion going on behind the register the dude walks the guy that works there walks over to me he's like do you know those guys that you were with and i was like no i literally just met them in line he's like but they paid for all your stuff you have to know them and i was like no the guy just saw that my id was expired he's like i want to buy this guy's beer because he's irish he was like they just walked away with all the beers and didn't pay me anything.

Speaker 2 And he called his manager over and was like, yeah, someone's got to pay for all these beers. And I was like, but I didn't even drink the, they, they took the beers.

Speaker 2 They're like, we think you know him. I was like, I don't know the guy.

Speaker 1 Oh, no. I was like, I'll pay.

Speaker 2 I'll pay for my. So I ended up paying for my entire thing after they had already served it to me just because I didn't want this guy to get fucked over at this job.
But yeah, just a legendary move

Speaker 2 by the Irish bloke. That is great.

Speaker 1 That's fucking awesome. It was a great fight.
A great night.

Speaker 1 Keck is alive.

Speaker 6 And coming up this weekend, we got Canelo versus Baval.

Speaker 1 So how would you have called that?

Speaker 5 Were you thinking?

Speaker 5 You're obviously sitting there as a fan, but you're doing an actual broadcast.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yes.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we're on. Dave, Robbie, and I, and Caleb and Ron, we're on an alternate broadcast.
Make sure you buy our pay-per-view link because that's how you can listen to us. We're going to be in Vegas.

Speaker 1 I was thinking about it because obviously, I mean, I love boxing. I'm a boxing fan, but I don't, I'm not an expert.
But I did say, and I think

Speaker 1 I would have been right about this in the fifth round. I was like, I think

Speaker 1 Serrano just punched herself out. Like, she's fucked.
Because that was the moment. So I think I would have gotten that right.
And then everything else probably would have been wildly wrong.

Speaker 1 But if you get one thing right.

Speaker 2 That's actually the story of what happened in the fight, though.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, no. She tweeted it at the moment.

Speaker 2 She was like, it's over. She was hitting her so much that she was getting tired.
And you saw.

Speaker 1 She emptied the tank on her fifth round.

Speaker 2 You saw Katie as the fight went on. She got stronger and stronger.
Or maybe she was just getting like less tired than Amanda was. And it was, man.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's actually like being on a drug when you're in like a full boxing environment like that where the crowd is going crazy.

Speaker 1 And you want, and like you're trying to get someone to finish, like you're like, finish them, finish them. And everyone gets up.

Speaker 1 I also, my only story from it was I sat next to Molly the Meatball, who's a barstool sports athlete who we will have on the show in, I think, a couple weeks.

Speaker 1 And if you don't know her, she's a UFC fighter, very, very good. Just won her last fight.
She has like crazy elbows that knocks people out.

Speaker 1 And she just throws them around like it's a joke like she i she was rooting for the guy who fought before the the uh title fight to live a puddle yeah liam smith and i was like i like i'm i don't know if i'm gonna root for this guy and she just chucked an elbow right in my in my chest and like i like i like kind of caught my breath i was like what the she's like yeah you you're rooting for him i was like okay i guess i am i met her for the first time in person when she was in the office i think last thursday and i went up to shake her hand i was like hey what's up i'm pft and she gave me a shoulder charge And she was like, this is how I used to tell people to shoulder charge in soccer.

Speaker 2 You put your base. And I was like, no, I know what that is.

Speaker 1 But that's how she said hi to me.

Speaker 2 It was just like knocking me off balance.

Speaker 1 She got in a fight without a fight, but she got in an argument with a dude in front of us. And the whole time, I was like, this dude has no idea.
Like, he's going to get fucking smoked. Kill him.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So that's got to be pretty cool to be Molly the Meatball and just walk around like talking shit, knowing that you can just elbow someone to death.

Speaker 1 She did a fake one too. Like the guy turned back around and she like, she like did did this right next to his head like near that close buddy to getting knocked out.
So she's awesome

Speaker 1 Okay, let's get to it.

Speaker 7 We got cowboy Joe West incredible interview after that We'll do a full draft breakdown of the whole weekend draft grades everything before we get to cowboy Joe West though the pro football football show is presented by the Chevy Silverado built for the hustle ready for the game Chevy Silverado is America's most dependable full-size truck whether you're grinding through the week or gearing up for kickoff the Silverado is one ride that's always game ready.

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Speaker 1 Okay, we now welcome on a very special guest. It is the one, the only cowboy Joe West.
He has a podcast, new podcast out. It's called the Joe West Podcast.
It launches on May 2nd.

Speaker 1 It's going to be great. I'm very, very excited.

Speaker 1 Your co-host, Mike Claiborne, is also on the podcast.

Speaker 1 Let's start there. What made you think I need a podcast? Because I want to hear Joe West's thoughts.
So I'm excited for this.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 1 is the world ready for unfiltered cowboy Joe West?

Speaker 4 Well, I don't think it has to be unfiltered. I think I can just tell the truth like it was.

Speaker 4 Mike Claiborne came to me and he says, you know, all the stories you told me over the years, he says,

Speaker 4 you should get them out there where everybody can hear them.

Speaker 4 He says, uh because you have a wealth of knowledge and all the years and people that you were around you you have a story about every city that you were ever in and uh and uh he and he and mike shannon i've known them for years and uh

Speaker 4 Shannon loves to hear my stories about the country music artists that I hang around with and and Claiborne likes to hear the stories about the ball players and

Speaker 4 and the managers. But he went to me and he says,

Speaker 4 let's just try this. If it works and we have fun, we'll keep doing it.
If it doesn't, we won't.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 4 it was his idea. It was his brainstorm.
And

Speaker 4 we've already done three

Speaker 4 so far. And the array of people that have agreed to come on and talk are awesome.
It's just really, really neat. And it just shows you that all umpires aren't two-headed monsters.

Speaker 4 You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 I like it.

Speaker 2 And you are a country singer. I'm a fan of

Speaker 2 your musical career. A big fan of Out at Home.
That's my favorite single that you've got. Are you done recording new country music? Are you going to get back in the studio soon?

Speaker 4 Well, I think we'll go back in there. The guy that did that Diamond Dreams album was George Jones' piano player for 30 years.
His name was Kent Goodson.

Speaker 4 And he came to me one day and he said, and I had always set in with him wherever I saw him. He came to me one day, he says, why don't you do a

Speaker 4 baseball stories album? I said, what, you don't like my singing?

Speaker 4 He said, no, that's not it. He said, but you got some great stories that we could put some background music to it.
And you can tell these stories. And so that was his idea.

Speaker 4 So, and I thought that that album came off very good. And

Speaker 4 he and a guy named Penn Pennington put all the music behind it. And it was kind of unique.
There are a lot of stories in there. Some of them are funny.
Some of them are serious.

Speaker 4 And some of them are stories that have been told over and over. I'll never forget the one story.
about Johnny Bench that's on that album.

Speaker 4 Johnny used to tell this story every time we play in a golf tournament together. And I told it to Larry Gatlin.
And Larry picked up the phone and he pushed a button. It went right to Johnny Bench.

Speaker 4 And he says, there's a guy here telling me about the first time you ever hit against Bob Gibson.

Speaker 4 And he says, yeah.

Speaker 4 He says, yeah, I remember that. He says, it was the weekend of my first year in the big leagues.
And he says,

Speaker 4 when my dad was a, you know, a semi-pro ball player. He used to walk by the TV set on Saturday and say, I can hit that guy, you know

Speaker 4 and the game of the week was the only game on at that time right you only had one game and his dad would walk by an inning later another pitcher would be out there and he'd say i can hit this guy i can

Speaker 4 so johnny says he grew up thinking his dad could hit anybody

Speaker 4 and so

Speaker 4 So, of course, Johnny goes to the big leagues and he's the next hot shot. He's throwing guys out from his knees.
And the first three games in Cincinnati, he got like five hits.

Speaker 4 And then they go down to St. Louis for the weekend.
And the first guy on the mountain was Bob Gibson. He said, he said, the first pitch got on me so fast, he said, I just flinched.

Speaker 4 And it's strike one. The second pitch, he's not stupid.
He threw it there again, strike two. And the third pitch, he threw me a slider outside corner, strike three.

Speaker 4 I'm just walking back and taking the bat off my shoulder.

Speaker 4 And he says, he started laughing. And his manager was Fred Hutchinson.
Fred started yelling at him. Bench, what's so damn funny?

Speaker 1 And he says, I don't think dad can hit this guy.

Speaker 1 That's good.

Speaker 4 But that's one of the stories. There's a story about Ryan Klesko in there and the stories about Lasorda.
And

Speaker 4 I mean,

Speaker 4 the total array of people that you meet in this game, I remember

Speaker 4 the guy that managed the Red Sox, Grady Little, came off the man one day and they had just put in this thing about the pace of game.

Speaker 4 You know, we want to speed up the hitters, we want to speed up the pitches, want the game to move faster. And Grady walked by me and he said,

Speaker 4 you know, Joe,

Speaker 4 this pace of game is conducive to the way that you work.

Speaker 4 And I said, you don't, you don't even know what that means. And he said, I know somebody told me to tell you that.

Speaker 1 That's great. You mentioned Lasorda a second ago.

Speaker 2 I have to imagine that he was pretty colorful sometimes. Like we were lucky enough to meet Tommy when he was still with us.

Speaker 2 And I mean, half the stories that he tells are about how he tried to get in fights with everybody that I'd ever met.

Speaker 2 Did he ever actually, were you afraid when Lasorda would come out there that like, this is a guy that might actually take a swing on me?

Speaker 4 No, no. In fact, Tommy Tommy told me one time, he said, I'll buy a million copies of your album if you'll just quit umpiring.

Speaker 1 That's a great line.

Speaker 4 And I said, I said, you know, Tommy, if, if I thought you'd write the check, I might think about it. But since I don't trust you because you don't pay for anything, I'm not going to go for that.

Speaker 4 But he was quite the character, you know, and he had a. He had a photographic memory.
If he met you the first time, or you or your wife, or you and your kids,

Speaker 4 he would remember.

Speaker 4 He had a knack for remembering everybody's name. He was a genius that way.

Speaker 4 And he was, for Dodger Blue, he was the epitome.

Speaker 4 He was really that

Speaker 4 interesting.

Speaker 4 We had to kick his picture out of a game in a playoff one time, Jay Howell,

Speaker 4 he had pine tar in his glove.

Speaker 4 And they asked him after the game, he said, did you ever put pine tar in your glove? He said, all the time, I needed the help.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I believe it. So who

Speaker 1 amongst your travels would you say was maybe your biggest rival in terms of a manager that's like, hey, this day, if I'm calling this team's games, I know there's a chance we might get into it.

Speaker 1 And it's like every, you know, through the years, you might respect him, but you knew you were going to get an ear full and maybe have to toss him from time to time.

Speaker 4 Well, Earl Weaver never finished the game I was in. I only had him in two games in spring training.

Speaker 1 I threw him out of both of them.

Speaker 4 But Dick Williams was tough that way. But Dick Williams was a great manager.
You got to realize he was like a hired gun. Everywhere he went, he won.
He won with Boston. He won with Oakland.

Speaker 4 He won with the Padres.

Speaker 4 He won in Montreal. They fired him and they were in first place.

Speaker 4 But he said one day, he says, I don't care. We're standing at home plate exchanging lineup cards.
And he said, I don't care what you call. If it goes against me, I'm coming out there.

Speaker 4 Well, sure enough, in about the third inning, there's a rundown and his third baseman salazar didn't get out of the way and he we called obstruction and put the runner on third base here he came before he could get to the dirt out in the infield i said well you said you were coming out here and you know you're wrong so he started screaming that threw him out

Speaker 4 but uh yeah i mean that's it's amazing you you'd see some of the most mild-mannered people turn into you know incredible Hulk when this the play happened against him.

Speaker 4 And you got to realize these guys are trying to win.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 4 You know, of all the managers i ever was around

Speaker 4 the only one that never got fired was earl weaver

Speaker 4 and yet he'd get kicked out all the time he got he got mad when bobby cox passed him for most ejections

Speaker 1 yeah you ejected bobby cox in a world series game is that ejecting ejecting a manager in a world series game is that an extra like when you get back it with the boys in the blue uh back in the dugout after you're like wow that's pretty that's like hitting a home run in the world series you got to eject advantage

Speaker 4 that was a fluke it was a check swing and uh we called the hitter out for the check swing then we called the runner out at second base and i mean it was a double play so bodby was so angry he slammed a batting helmet down on the top step of the dugout and it went all the way out in the middle of the infield

Speaker 4 So I thought the hitter that struck out had thrown it. So I went over and find him.
It was Blouser, Jeff Blouser.

Speaker 4 And when I find him, the whole dugout said, he didn't do it. He didn't do it.

Speaker 4 So I said, okay, who did it? And Bobby said, I did it.

Speaker 1 So I threw him out.

Speaker 2 And that was it. Forced your hand on that one.

Speaker 1 So what I'm always curious, what was the line? What was it?

Speaker 1 Would the line.

Speaker 1 you know, change game to game. Like, did a guy have to say something specifically to you, throw something? Like, where was the line where it's like, all right, now you're gone?

Speaker 5 Well, they know where it is.

Speaker 4 I mean,

Speaker 4 the funniest thing we ever did, I think, with Larry Young was an American League umpire, and Steve Ripley and I were working with him in a spring trading game.

Speaker 4 And Gene Shallot came in the locker room, going to do an interview. And he was talking about the baseball, hey, rub up the balls.
And

Speaker 4 Ripley actually showed him a brand new ball. He says, this is the show piece.
And then he showed him the rubbed up ball. He says, this is the work piece.

Speaker 4 And right after that, he said, he looked at Larry Young and he says, what do I have to say to get kicked out of a ball game? And I realized that Larry had actually rehearsed this.

Speaker 4 And he says, call me something I'm not.

Speaker 4 So I said, I said, yeah, tell him he's good looking. That'll get you kicked out of the game.

Speaker 4 And of course, that made the interview on ABC Sports over.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I think one of my favorite clips of you, Joe, is when you were umpiring and Madison Bumgarner was on the mound, and you guys got into it a little bit.

Speaker 2 There was, it was like two alpha males going back and forth.

Speaker 4 It ended up in a stare down for the ages and when i mean a stare down for the ages you need to go watch this video if you haven't seen already the two of you just locked eyes after i think you called a you called a walk i believe and then yeah he he wanted a pitch a couple pitches earlier he was he he actually wasn't mad at me he was mad that he threw a ball to this guy he was i mean he was upset about the pitch earlier but when when the pitch came in ball for it now he just screamed a profanity and and he you could hear it all over the infield.

Speaker 4 And I mean, I don't want to kick out a starting pitcher, you know,

Speaker 4 when

Speaker 4 what he should be doing is going around to the front row of the people saying, I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 So I just stared at him. And of course, the catcher, Buster, he says, what's going on? I said, you just sit down.
Everything will be fine.

Speaker 1 You're taking care of it.

Speaker 2 Now, as you're in a staring contest, because it can get awkward sometimes after like the first three seconds of a stare,

Speaker 2 it's almost like you're fighting a mental battle against yourself to not look away.

Speaker 1 Well, yeah. And

Speaker 4 he knew he did wrong. I mean, and that's why he looked away first.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 But I mean, you have to realize that you're in a game where they're so competitive and so high strung. And

Speaker 4 they thrive on beating you. I mean, they are the most competitive people in the world.

Speaker 4 It's like the story in the Apollo 13. Failure is not an option.
It's just not an option. And

Speaker 4 they work all year round to be the best athlete they can be. And then any little thing like that will set them off.

Speaker 4 And the great players overcome the inadequacies of everything and try to get by the best way they can. You know, it's kind of funny.
I mentioned the Apollo 13.

Speaker 4 We were working in Houston and

Speaker 4 we're in this bar

Speaker 4 called Studebakers. And they actually had a Studebaker sticking out of the wall.

Speaker 4 And we're down there and we're cutting up, having a good time. We don't have to work till the next night.
And

Speaker 4 this cocktail waitress came over to us and we were friends with a couple of the astronauts that flew out of NASA, you know.

Speaker 4 And so she said, what do y'all do for a living?

Speaker 4 And Randy Marsh got up and says, well, I'm a National league umpire and i'm here to work the houston astros and the and uh cincinnati reds she said yeah those two assholes are astronauts and they were

Speaker 1 that's fantastic that's fantastic uh what about i i have a couple of your moments in your career that i'm wondering if maybe you can admit that you were wrong um which might be a lot to ask for the famous andre dawson one at wrigley that was a ball That was a ball.

Speaker 4 I saw more beer in the course of one swing of my arms than they did in six innings.

Speaker 1 It was, yeah, Andre Dawson threw all of his bats on the field, then all the fans threw their beers.

Speaker 1 But that was a ball. Have you ever looked back at that? I mean, that was, I don't know where your strike zone was that whole night, but that was low and outside.

Speaker 4 You're complaining about one pitch out of five.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we're going to go through it.

Speaker 4 460 games.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we're going to go through it. We got to.
Can you admit that one was a ball? Nope. Oh, man.
That's true, Joe West. All right, what about another Cubs one?

Speaker 1 Do you remember when Joe Madden tried to hit you with the spin move? And I actually went and looked it because I was like, I'm going to figure out how many times I've tweeted about Joe West.

Speaker 1 It's a lot.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 you had actually great, you had great O-line skills.

Speaker 1 You didn't get beat by the spin move. What would happen when a manager would get right in your face?

Speaker 1 Was it like, how would that go in your head where it's like, we gotta, we gotta de-escalate this, but I'm also not gonna just back down.

Speaker 4 Well, and that's another thing.

Speaker 4 You know, you're in a position of authority and you have to, you have to realize that in that position, it's a delicate point because you cannot be overbearing and you cannot escalate.

Speaker 4 the fight or the argument or whatever. And there have been times when you have to kick somebody out and they don't want to go.

Speaker 4 And then there'll be times when they want to get kicked out, and you've got to decide: well, is this the good move to kick him out and give him his way, or do I leave him in the game?

Speaker 4 I mean, I can remember Eric Gregg and Larry Boa. Boa's trying to get kicked out because it's 100 degrees and they're playing on astral turf.

Speaker 4 And Eric kept looking at him and said, I'm not kicking you out. You can do whatever you want to.
You can set my uniform on fire, but if I got to stay, you got to stay.

Speaker 1 You know, so.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 4 handling situations is probably the hardest part of the game.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 you look at it and what really bothers me today is

Speaker 4 because we're working both leagues, you don't get to know the players and the umpires, meaning your relationship with each other as well as you did when I first started.

Speaker 4 When you were just working one league,

Speaker 4 I'd go to Cincinnati four times. I'd go to Los Angeles three or four times.
I'd go to San Diego three or four times. Well, now I'm lucky if I go there one time

Speaker 4 because you're working both leagues and you have to work all the teams.

Speaker 4 So it's harder for the players to have a rapport and understand how they can get along with this umpire or maybe not say anything to this umpire.

Speaker 4 There's, I mean, Tony Clark's a friend of mine. He's the players director for the Players Association.

Speaker 4 And he's actually said, you know, there are ball players that are afraid to say anything to Joe West.

Speaker 4 And then you got guys like Craig Bijo and Mark Grace and these guys,

Speaker 4 and they can't wait to say hello to you. You know what I mean? So it's a difference in how you've grown up in the game.
And do you know this guy? Do you know that?

Speaker 4 I mean, and it makes it makes a big difference.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

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Speaker 2 Is there one game that you look back on and you're like, you know what? I called the perfect game. Not a perfect game, not no hitter, but I mean, like, you personally.

Speaker 2 What's the best game you've ever called?

Speaker 4 Well,

Speaker 4 I think the best game

Speaker 4 that

Speaker 4 you guys would remember was the one with the Red Sox and the Yankees when Alex Rodriguez slapped at the glove in first base.

Speaker 4 And we had to change it because the first base umpire didn't see him.

Speaker 4 And so we had to take a run off the board, had to put Jeter back on for, and when we called him out,

Speaker 4 the Yankee fans threw everything in the world at us. Somebody threw their

Speaker 4 BMW car keys at the third base umpire, John Hirschpeck.

Speaker 4 I told him we should have taken him and tried to go through the parking lot, see if we could find him.

Speaker 4 But now

Speaker 4 we got the play right,

Speaker 4 and

Speaker 4 the media took up for us. What if the media doesn't take up for us?

Speaker 4 You know,

Speaker 4 I mean, we're getting annihilated by the fans, and now if the media doesn't side with us,

Speaker 4 we're villains for the rest of our lives. You know, I mean, luckily, and in my experiences, and I'm very lucky that I've had plays in big situations where I got them right.

Speaker 4 But how do you think Jimmy Joyce feels about his play at first base with

Speaker 4 the pitcher that had the perfect game?

Speaker 4 And how do you think Don Denkinger feels about the call at first base that the Cardinals swear that cost them the World Series, even though they made two errors after that?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think with Joyce, he kind of manned up to it right after the fact. He goes, I kicked the shit out of that call.
I blew it. I feel sick to my stomach.
I think people

Speaker 1 had to stay after that. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 4 that was voted like the humanitarian award of the year by uh some esp in point

Speaker 4 and and you know what

Speaker 1 it's sad but uh he felt really bad about that yeah you know yeah along those lines how much did you hate when k-zone came along on tv because that had to be a bad day for umps when the regular fans can watch and be like oh that was not even close to a strike well the the biggest problem with the the k-zone system is it's not it's not exactly accurate.

Speaker 4 It's offline. It's like

Speaker 4 the best example I can give you is they grade the umpires on a machine for a home plate every game they work.

Speaker 4 And they grade every pitch that you call.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 a year or so before I retired, we didn't have a single umpire, not one umpire that scored 195%.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 4 think about that. That means if they missed five pitches out of 100, you'd think that was excellent.

Speaker 1 I mean, I do.

Speaker 4 Yeah. You know, I mean,

Speaker 4 that's an A-plus in anybody's book, right?

Speaker 4 So now this thing comes along and

Speaker 4 it's not as accurate as the machine that's grading us to call the pitches.

Speaker 4 And in fact,

Speaker 4 they're looking at these robotic computers to try to replace the home-played umpire. Well, the robotic computer, they already know misses 7% of the pitches.

Speaker 4 We don't have an umpire missing five.

Speaker 4 And when the robotic umpire misses a pitch, it doesn't call anything.

Speaker 4 At least when the umpire calls a pitch, he calls it one way or another. So what do you do if that robotic umpire doesn't call anything? Well, we're going to have a do-over.

Speaker 4 I don't think that's going to work.

Speaker 1 I like this. So, yeah, this is shooting down robot umps.
I like this. I like the problem.

Speaker 4 Don't get me wrong. I'm not shooting down anything.
In fact, I think when they put instant instant replay in, we had a bigger

Speaker 4 rebellion over instant replay because these umpires, all the umpires thought, well, they're going to take our jobs.

Speaker 4 And we're going, no, you're going to have an extra umpire helping you with a call that you're blocked out or maybe didn't see at a bad angle. I said, I think it's a good thing.

Speaker 4 And overall, the instant replay has been a good thing because... It teaches our young umpires where to go.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 4 It's like on the field training. It's like a seminar.
You send the dentist who's worked for 20 years to a seminar to learn new techniques. It's the same thing with umpiring.

Speaker 4 And it's helped umpire and it's made us better. And I think that's a good thing.

Speaker 2 Where are we at on the uniforms right now? Because I think that it's very confusing for a lot of kids that are grown up right now.

Speaker 1 You call an umpire blue, but they're wearing black uniforms. Like, can we bring back the blue ones?

Speaker 4 Well, you know, I used to, I used to have, have a crew, and I'd send a guy out and say, what are they wearing today? And they go, why do you want to know?

Speaker 4 I said, because if they're wearing black uniforms, then we should wear the blue uniforms.

Speaker 4 And if they're wearing light colors, then we should wear the dark colors so that we're not mistaken on a pop-up in the infield, a player runs into us or something.

Speaker 4 So, but that didn't work for a couple of years.

Speaker 4 And we have certain umpires that don't wear anything but the blue.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 I love the blue ones. I never understood why an umpire would wear the black ones.

Speaker 4 Well, you got to realize, years ago when I started, we wore hathaway shirts and they had to they had to unsew the pocket to put the patch on your pocket.

Speaker 4 And we had one guy in the National League office that did all that. He did it himself.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 this one year they didn't give them to him. They sewed all the patches to the pockets.
So now we couldn't get our lineup cards in our pockets. So

Speaker 4 we had to go back to the old-fashioned way.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Would you have any rivalries with your fellow umpires? Like, was there competition? Are you a competitive guy to see who was getting more calls right?

Speaker 4 Well, I think every umpire is striving to get them all right. I don't think there's like a competition.
I think this is the wrong profession to be competitive in.

Speaker 4 You should be trying to help your umpire, each umpire be as good as they can be because if you're on a crew and your first base umpire is in trouble,

Speaker 4 all four of you are in trouble.

Speaker 4 It's not like

Speaker 4 you can come back in the fifth inning and hit a home run or you can make a great play at Shortstep.

Speaker 4 We need to get every play right that we can. And

Speaker 4 that's how they need to look at it.

Speaker 4 To be competitive to say, oh, I got this play right and you didn't. I mean,

Speaker 4 you're hurting the profession there. And, you know, I've always said this,

Speaker 4 that your first responsibility. as an umpire is to the game of baseball.
And that doesn't mean the commissioner's office.

Speaker 4 And your second responsibility is to your profession, and that doesn't mean the union, it means your profession as an umpire.

Speaker 4 And your third responsibility is to do what you know in your heart is morally honest and correct.

Speaker 4 And if you do those three things in that order, nothing you do will be wrong. You might get killed for it, but nothing you do will be wrong.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Who is the hardest pitcher to track? The guy who either his

Speaker 1 the movement or the speed, but when you when you know that you're calling his game, you got to be real, real sharp because

Speaker 1 the game of inches and painting corners makes it difficult for you to get everything correct.

Speaker 4 Well, once you learn how to do it, the harder they throw it, the easier it is. Really? Because the ball levels out.

Speaker 4 The hardest pitches to call are knuckleballs and sliders at the knees and break-in balls that are going down all the time. Those are much harder than Nolan Ryan and J.R.
Richard and

Speaker 4 the flamethrowers. The harder they threw it, the easier it is.
And I know it's harder to catch up to it with a bat, but they're trying to hit it.

Speaker 4 You're trying to see where it crosses the plate.

Speaker 1 So guys with curveballs and nasty breaking stuff, did you ever ump a Tim Wakefield start? Oh, yeah. And how'd that go? Like, was there times when you're like, I don't even know what that was?

Speaker 4 Well, the ball just comes in and it floats in there

Speaker 4 and your eyes are blinking.

Speaker 4 My first game in the big leagues, I had had Phil Necro and Joaquin Andavar. One guy was throwing BBs and the other guy was throwing butterflies.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Jeez.
That's got to be.

Speaker 4 But they were throwing strikes, though. That game was like an hour and 57 minutes.

Speaker 1 That's unbelievable. So along the same lines, if you get a call on the edge and the batter, like, say it's strike three and the batter's like, hey, you missed that.

Speaker 1 Would there ever be a time where you'd be like, you know what? I did miss that. Like, that's my bet.

Speaker 4 Well, you might tell the guy, I'll go look at it, but you're not going to admit that you missed it to try to get out of an argument.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 4 You have to call it from your heart.

Speaker 1 Right. And your heart's always right.

Speaker 4 Well, you want it to be.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 You make every effort to call everything the right way. Yes.

Speaker 2 When a player would start to walk to first base, when say it was like a three-in-one count, right? And it was like a borderline pitch.

Speaker 2 And he takes off out of the batter's box because he's like, that's a ball. He doesn't even let you say the words.
You're more likely to call that a strike, right? Just to bring him back in.

Speaker 4 Well, if you do, then you're overthinking your job. You know, you should call the pitch as it is.
You shouldn't, that shouldn't have any effect on what you're doing.

Speaker 1 What, what about a pitcher showing you up, so to speak? Because we love the unwritten rules of baseball.

Speaker 1 Like, when a pitcher is maybe yelling at the ump, in our eyes, from the fans' perspective, we're like, oh, the ump's going to get him here. Like, the ump's going to squeeze him a little.

Speaker 4 Well, no, you can't do that either.

Speaker 1 I think you can. I think you have.

Speaker 4 The biggest thing in baseball is that you have to make the game fair to everybody. If you call something against a guy because you're mad at him, then you're cheating the game, and that's not right.

Speaker 4 If a guy does something to you that makes you so mad that you would cheat,

Speaker 4 then you should have kicked him out.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's a good point. Okay.

Speaker 4 You should never be in a situation where I'm going to get this guy. You should never, ever put yourself in that situation.

Speaker 4 And I can remember my first few years in the major leagues when they'd argue with me, I'd get angry. I'd just get mad.
I'd start screaming. And

Speaker 4 so I'm working with Doug Harvey one day. And

Speaker 4 I called ball four on Dave Kingman. And Kingman said something smart

Speaker 4 because he didn't like a pitch earlier in the count. And I actually chased him to first base

Speaker 4 and I just walked the guy, you know, I called ball four.

Speaker 4 So between then then this Doug Harvey came down and he says, don't let them ruin your day.

Speaker 4 You work your game. If they get out of line, you kick them out.
But don't get angry. Don't get upset.
Don't be screaming and hollering. He says, you're just going to make yourself miserable.

Speaker 4 And I think from that point on,

Speaker 4 it was like turning the light on because you are the official authority. You have the last word.

Speaker 4 In fact, Steve Garvey told me that one day when I got in an argument with Joe Torrey, he he says you know you have the last word whether you take it or not

Speaker 4 and and if you look at it that way then you're going to be much more calm in an argument you're going to be much more approachable and and it makes makes much more sense makes it easier for everybody

Speaker 2 i'm i'm curious to know how your strike three call developed over the years if it evolved at all how you came up with it if it's uh if it got louder in certain circumstances uh because there's a couple elements that go into it right Well,

Speaker 4 and the big thing is, is

Speaker 4 I can remember

Speaker 4 we had a senior umpire tell a young umpire one time, he says, your strike one and strike two are very good. Your timing is very good, but your strike three is exceptionally fast.

Speaker 4 You need to slow down.

Speaker 4 And the young guy got upset.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 so I talked to him later. I said, you don't understand.

Speaker 4 He's trying to tell you something that will help you. He's not saying anything to criticize you.
He's saying that if you wait on your strike three, you're going to be much better.

Speaker 4 There's a better chance you're going to get every pitch right.

Speaker 4 And that's another thing that you look at as umpiring is when the pitch comes in, that umpire that takes a split second to be sure he's right is going to get most of his pitches right.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I just always love the turn to the side and the strong punch out. There's nothing like a good punchout, right? Like you felt that.

Speaker 2 It's like when batters say, you know, if you make good contact with the ball, you don't even feel the ball hit the bat. Like after a good punch out you know that you nailed it

Speaker 1 well you're worried about your form now instead of getting it right yeah yeah that's what we that's what we watch that's what we watch uh can you tell me the be you had a protest for the umpires with the armbands that i made fun of i'll just i'll come clean on it um because i just thought it was funny that like umpires are a persecuted you know uh class of people this was in 2018 when they legalized gambling how you i think you only had it for one day i actually think it was at at Wrigley.

Speaker 1 You had the white armband, stand with umpires. That protest didn't feel like it got big legs there.
It didn't feel like it went anywhere.

Speaker 4 Well, that's because they negotiated with us.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay. I just love the picture of you being like,

Speaker 1 just so you know, Joe, like, this has been a great interview. I don't think anyone ever feels bad for umpires.
We, we, we're, we're, we're raised to hate umpires through and through.

Speaker 1 So I just, I loved it when I saw it. I was like, yeah, I don't think, I don't think there's going to be a lot of people like crying over the umpires here.

Speaker 4 I know, but

Speaker 4 it got the message across. And

Speaker 4 you know what?

Speaker 4 Over the years, I've befriended Jackie Autry, Jean's widow. And she says the same thing.
She says, she goes, I come, you're such a nice guy, and everybody hates you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, no, it's, I mean, it's true.

Speaker 1 There'd be times when, like, with Twitter now, like you would be trending because of a call or something. And like I said, I mean, there's been a great interview.
So

Speaker 1 would you hear that? Would you know like afterwards that people are just saying like Joe Wes is the worst or Joe Wes is trying to make it about Joe West? Would you get that noise?

Speaker 4 Well, yeah, but see, that's another thing. This is, you're not on stage.
The ball players are on stage. I relate an umpire like he's the

Speaker 4 offensive lineman or the bass player in the band. You don't know he's there until something goes wrong.

Speaker 4 You know what I mean? As long as everything's going right, everything's good, da-da-da-da-da-da, everything, everything's fine, no one knows he's there.

Speaker 4 But as soon as you have interference or obstruction or

Speaker 4 fan interference or somebody

Speaker 4 trying to cheat and the umpire has to do something, then one side or the other hates him for it. And that's that's part of your job.

Speaker 4 you know you can't you can't worry about what they're going to say about you i mean one of the funniest polls they ever had with the the ball players was they the players got together and said, who's the best umpire?

Speaker 4 And they had this poll, and it was 100 and some players.

Speaker 4 And I was voted the worst umpire in the league by 5% of them. And I was voted the best umpire in the league by five more.
So,

Speaker 4 where was I in the middle?

Speaker 1 Did I get any votes in the middle? Well, it's an emotional, yeah, it's an emotional thing. Uh, I think fans just always think they're getting screwed over.
I count myself in that group.

Speaker 1 I've tweeted mean things about you. Um, I don't, I'll apologize.
Here, I'll read one of them. I said, in 2016, I said, Joe West is such a piece of shit, I actually kind of respect it.

Speaker 1 I'll delete that tweet if you say that you were wrong about the Andre Dawson call.

Speaker 4 Okay, you can keep the tweet then.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't want it any other way. I wouldn't want it any other way.

Speaker 2 There are a couple other highlights that we're saying.

Speaker 4 That's terrible, and he's trying to bribe me.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 2 I think this is how business gets done. He's negotiating.
Listen,

Speaker 2 i'm not even working anymore i i've been on your i've been standing up for for the thin blue line and umpires for a long time um i think that it's it's a

Speaker 2 discussion that needs to happen more often you see that you see like kids now uh they they have to struggle to find umpires to referee like little league games because all the parents are yelling at the umps and they can't even play on sundays sometimes Yeah, well, that's a sad thing.

Speaker 4 In fact, the first game I ever umpired, I was was 12 years old.

Speaker 4 And they asked me to umpire the bases because one of the fathers didn't show up to work the bases. And the little town of Greenville, North Carolina, they had the

Speaker 4 fathers, there were two leagues, and the fathers from the one league had to umpire in the other league on the bases.

Speaker 4 And they hired played umpires to work, but, you know, so that you would give back to the game, they made the...

Speaker 4 the parents umpire the games this one guy didn't show up he was something to do with his job and so the the the two coaches said well put joe out there he he knows how to do it so that was the first game i ever umpired i was 12 years old in guy smith stadium and uh i umpired the bases and you fell in love with it well i don't know if i fell in love with it because i was hitting 400

Speaker 4 but

Speaker 4 but uh yeah that was that's when i first started yeah when uh

Speaker 4 I used to umpire

Speaker 4 Babe Ruth and that kind of stuff when I was going to college. And

Speaker 4 because I had a football scholarship, the football coach wouldn't let me play on the baseball team at Elon.

Speaker 4 And so I used to go umpire the local college and high school games. And this director of umpires in the Carolina League saw me working.
He says, you're going to do this.

Speaker 4 You ought to learn how to do it right. He took me to clinics and showed me little things that you would never think of, like how to take your mask off without your hat coming off.

Speaker 4 Always hold your indicator in your left hand and little things. And that

Speaker 4 so when I went to umpire school a year later, I was already doing the things that they were teaching these kids at the umpire school.

Speaker 4 And I was ahead of them because I had worked with this guy who was a professional umpire.

Speaker 2 Gave you a leg up. What's one thing about being an umpire that like we don't see behind the scenes? One small detail about your job that nobody would ever notice watching on TV?

Speaker 4 Well, they're human beings and they have feelings just like you do.

Speaker 4 And when they get criticized, it hurts them. And they take it.
And

Speaker 4 there are some guys that when they get started in the minor leagues,

Speaker 4 after a couple of weeks, they can't take it at all. And they go by the wayside.
And the biggest problem

Speaker 4 with all of sports officiating is you don't pay them enough. to keep them around.

Speaker 4 We lose a lot of good quality umpires because they can't afford to go through six, seven, eight, nine years in the minor leagues. Yeah.
And so we lose good people all the time.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 I was very lucky that

Speaker 4 the National League was scouting an umpire that was a former player when they saw me. And I was only in like double A.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 he made a call and he messed up the rule. And I went down and Richie Garcia and I were both there.
We went down and we fixed it. And Fred Flagg was the director of umpires for the National League.

Speaker 4 He says, I don't want the ball player. I want him.

Speaker 4 And Barney Deary, who was director of umpire development, you can't have him. He's only in double A.
So here's the director of the National League umpires. He said, well, then promote him.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 4 I went to the triple-A and then they brought me to spring training. And that was how I got there.

Speaker 1 They should remake the natural with you. Like, we just saw that guy.
He's got it. He's got the eye.

Speaker 2 You always hear stories like that of a college coach going to a high school game. Yeah.
Scout somebody. They're like, no, I want want that guy.
I want the center.

Speaker 1 Yeah, right. And it was you.
Wait, so technical questions. What's the hardest call to make on the field?

Speaker 1 Like the one that fans don't realize, but it's just a very difficult call to make no matter what.

Speaker 4 Your next one.

Speaker 1 There's not a specific like.

Speaker 4 Your next call is your most difficult call. Doesn't matter how many of the other ones you got right.
You got to get the next one right.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 4 And you have to focus on that. And here's another thing.
You know, once I've had umpires ask me, said, well, how do you take plays at first base? And I go, I can't help you with that.

Speaker 4 And they go, why? And I said, because when that guy lets the ball go at shortstop or third base, I've been doing this so long that I know whether it's online.

Speaker 4 You have to experience that. You have to do it enough where you can do that.
and see as soon as he lets the ball go, oh, it's online or it's offline. You know, I had that ability because I had over,

Speaker 4 what, 10,000 plays at first base? Right. And these kids that are asking me are just beginning.
And I can't tell them to do what I do because they don't have the experience yet.

Speaker 4 They have to do it themselves and get to where they've done it enough.

Speaker 1 Now, along those same lines, what's the weirdest rule in the rule book that people don't realize? The one that you...

Speaker 1 Almost like it so rarely happens that when you get to flex it and like, oh, I knew this, you were kind of excited.

Speaker 4 Well,

Speaker 4 there's, there's some rules in there that were,

Speaker 4 you have to understand that the baseball rule book was put together as a work in progress and it it it increased the more plays happened and the more things happened that were

Speaker 4 you know out of sync and uh

Speaker 4 but there's stuff that happens all the time like they could hit a pop-up by the by the dugout where the the team batting didn't move the bat out of the way or the on-deck hitter didn't move the rosin back out of the way well if the catcher trips over that, that's interference.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Okay.
You see what I'm saying? Yeah.

Speaker 4 So, and you'll only see it one time in 10 years. Right.

Speaker 4 But, and then the time you do see it, they'll go, oh, that's just a mistake. No, it's not.
He's out.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Keep the station. I like station clean.
Yeah, I like that one. That's a good one.

Speaker 4 But they have to clear the area so the fielder can feel the ball.

Speaker 4 And, you know, we had a had a play in a playoff game where the ball went in the bullpen in San Francisco and the players didn't get out of the way.

Speaker 4 The players have to vacate the space so the fielder can get the ball.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 And the fielder just stood there. Instead of going to get the ball, then he could have created the interference, but he didn't.
He just stood there.

Speaker 2 So what do you do? And that's it. You put your hands up.

Speaker 4 There's nothing you can do if they don't interfere.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 4 So there was no call.

Speaker 4 And I mean, he didn't know the rules, you know, and I can remember being in Montreal and they threw a ball in the dirt and it bounced off Gary Carter's shoulder and they score into the dugout.

Speaker 4 Well, the runner on second for the Cardinals, he's going to score. If Gary picks up the ball, he can't throw him out.

Speaker 4 So Dick Williams got up, took his glasses off, and screamed, let it go.

Speaker 4 Don't touch it.

Speaker 4 The ball rolled in the dugout because it was a pitched ball. They had to send the runner back to third.

Speaker 2 Smart. Huh.
Smart play. What about a bulk do you do you actually know what a balk is? Because aren't there like 14 ways?

Speaker 1 You might be the only person that knows what a balk is.

Speaker 2 This is a test.

Speaker 4 Most balks jump out at you.

Speaker 4 And when I came up in the National League, the National League umpires called balks because we had base runners like Lou Brock and Mari Wills and so on and so on and so on.

Speaker 4 So we called balks. because we didn't want the pitchers cheating to pick them off.
You know, if they spun on the heel, that was a balk.

Speaker 4 If they didn't step to first base as a lieutenant pitcher, that was a bog.

Speaker 4 So once you were taught that this is a bog, when that would happen, it would jump out at you. And it was real easy to call them because you did it all the time.
You know,

Speaker 4 and I can remember when Vita Blue came to the National League. And the American League was notorious for not calling balks at the time.

Speaker 4 So Vita Blue comes over and he's pitching his first game at Candlestick Park.

Speaker 4 And it's me and Kibbler

Speaker 4 Pulley.

Speaker 4 I think Nick Colosse was the other guy. And he went to throw the first base, and he didn't step to first base.
Four guys called a ball. All four umpires called the ball code, right?

Speaker 2 That's got to be a great moment.

Speaker 1 That's got to be just like

Speaker 1 a pro hug.

Speaker 4 What happened there?

Speaker 4 And didn't happen again because he knew we'd call a ball, so he didn't do it again.

Speaker 1 you know that's fantastic i yeah i mean the the i was gonna say ozzy gehan would not agree with how you call Box. I remember that one, too, when you had to kick Ozzy out.

Speaker 1 They called two box on Mark Burley.

Speaker 1 You know what?

Speaker 4 Nobody wants to call a ball on Mark Burley because he pitches fast.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he must be one of your favorites. Do you guys know those?

Speaker 4 Like, do you, when you threw the, yeah, when he threw the glove up in the air, Rob drinks it. Don't throw him out, Joe.
Don't throw him.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
When you, when you, uh, when you would look at the pitching matchups, we'd be like, oh, okay, we can get an earlier flight today.

Speaker 4 Oh, gosh, he keep the game moving. That's.

Speaker 4 but you know the pitchers today they they nibble here and they nibble you know it's another thing this designated hitter is going to slow down the game because

Speaker 4 and and i've said this before you know if tom siever threw more than nine pitches to the seventh eighth and ninth hitter one of them fouled off a two-strike pitch

Speaker 4 because in the old national league they would go right after the seventh eighth and ninth hitter yeah In the American League, they didn't go right after him. You see what I'm saying? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 4 you have that

Speaker 4 discrepancy.

Speaker 4 That's been a bad rule from the beginning. And I know why the players put it in.
They want to keep jobs and this, that, and the other.

Speaker 4 And I know why the owners put it in because they don't want their pitchers hitting and they don't want them to get hurt.

Speaker 4 I get that. But it's going to slow the game down.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I hadn't really thought about that, but having the nine-hole be like pretty much three guaranteed strikes

Speaker 2 in the pace of play.

Speaker 4 Here's the other thing.

Speaker 4 And this is the best example. When Roger Clemens pitched in the American League, he was a headhunter.
He would throw at people.

Speaker 4 When he came over to play for Houston while they were in the National League, he didn't hit anybody.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know why? Because he had to bat.

Speaker 1 Yeah. He had to bat.
Yeah. He had to step in there and

Speaker 1 favorite point.

Speaker 2 To that point, when would you make the decision? Like, how good were you at figuring out whether or not a pitcher hitting a batter was intentional? Where was that line?

Speaker 4 Well,

Speaker 4 you can pretty much tell.

Speaker 4 There's times when the hitter does something

Speaker 4 to show up the pitcher after you hit a home run or something. And

Speaker 4 I remember with this young kid one time, I walked in between innings. I said, now, when the shortstop comes to bat next inning, they're going to hit him.

Speaker 4 And I said, when they do, you're going to have to throw him out of the game, throw the pitcher out of the game.

Speaker 4 So sure enough,

Speaker 4 shortstop came to bat because he'd done something to show up the other team. and they drilled him.

Speaker 1 And of course, he threw the guy out.

Speaker 4 And now here comes the manager.

Speaker 4 So I had to throw him out because

Speaker 4 there was not a warning at the time. So the manager wasn't ejected until he complained.
I mean, you could have thrown him out, but we didn't.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 4 he said,

Speaker 4 how did you know? I said, because I've been here a little while, you know.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 It's one of those things where you know something's coming.

Speaker 4 You know, one of the funniest stories was Chuck Merriweather was the umpire in the American league, and when we consolidated leagues, he's got Greg Maddox

Speaker 4 has thrown at one of the other hitters. So Greg comes to bat and he says,

Speaker 4 He says, Now, Chuck, they're going to throw at me.

Speaker 4 And when they do, I don't want you to do a thing. I'm just going to go to first base and everything will be fine.
And Chuck said, I don't think you understand.

Speaker 4 If they throw at you and I don't do anything, I'm not going to be here.

Speaker 1 Yeah, what uh,

Speaker 1 what was this? Is kind of a very specific question. I should have prepped you on this one.
Is there one player whose crack of the bat sounded different than everyone else's?

Speaker 1 Because that's my favorite: is when you go to batting practice or you're watching a game, and one of like the true great players, it just sounds different. It's like a violent sound.

Speaker 1 Was there one guy or maybe a couple guys where you're like, Yeah, whew, that was just totally different than everyone else well willie starjoh hit the ball hard um

Speaker 4 al oliver hit the ball hard

Speaker 4 um dale murphy hit the ball hard mike schmidt hit the ball and barry bonds yeah hit the ball hard i mean those

Speaker 4 they're

Speaker 4 maguire

Speaker 4 andres galarago

Speaker 1 i mean when they hit the ball it they made a different sound yeah because it is cool like you know it when it when one of those guys hits the ball it's just is there something about it where it's yeah there's there's nothing i know it sounds very like um cliche or romantic but that crack of the bat when it's a true you know home run hitter there's just something special about it oh yeah yeah

Speaker 4 and uh speaking of home runs i have to tell you guys this story because it this is one of the funniest things ever happened um when they built Coors Field in Denver.

Speaker 4 Bob Gephardt was the general manager of the Rockies.

Speaker 4 And they got this new facility and they put everything together. And he said, Joe, you won't believe it.

Speaker 4 We didn't have to make those handicapped ramps. We didn't have to make handicap parking.
We're going to let the handicapped people park in the player's lot.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 we're going to roll their wheelchairs right up to the chain link fence in left field so they can be on the field level.

Speaker 4 And when they leave, they can go get in the player's lot and they can go right out. He says, and everything worked great till one of our guys hit hit a home run

Speaker 4 and 13 people got up out of wheelchairs and ran for the ball.

Speaker 1 That's fantastic.

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Speaker 1 My last question, can you give us, I know you said that when you're when you're calling from your heart, you can't be wrong, but best call, worst call, best call, worst call in your career.

Speaker 4 Well, that play in New York was probably the biggest call.

Speaker 4 I don't know that it was my best, but

Speaker 4 it was probably the biggest. And

Speaker 4 I don't know. Maybe the worst call was

Speaker 4 when I got my divorce papers.

Speaker 1 Classic. I thought you were going to say Andre Dawson.
Come on.

Speaker 2 No, that one was good.

Speaker 4 No, you can keep your tweet.

Speaker 1 It's okay. Yeah, go to the grave with that one.
Look at this, PFT. Just look.
I just want PFT to win. I've seen it.

Speaker 1 There's a lot was there's a lot of beard no no but where's this ball this ball is so far

Speaker 2 i'll be the i'll be the judge here joe okay here it comes here comes i've watched a lot of baseball in my day i don't know about you here it comes that's lone outside

Speaker 1 that's so low joe that's four inches off the plate so i've got to kick you both out right yeah yeah

Speaker 2 i mean it's a tough job i i fully admit like did you've got you know you've got a ball coming in 95 to 100 miles per hour on you, and you have to make a call whether or not it's

Speaker 2 on the black part of the plate or off the plate entirely.

Speaker 2 It's not an enviable task to do.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
But we appreciate it, Joe. And good luck with the podcast.
And, you know, you're a recurring guest now.

Speaker 1 So when we have something pop up in a controversial way in MLB, we're going to have to call on you to come on.

Speaker 4 Well, that'll be fine.

Speaker 2 Are we officially 100% forever, ever, forever, ever retired?

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 I've called my last baseball game.

Speaker 4 But it was fun.

Speaker 4 It was a good run.

Speaker 1 Maybe see you in Cooperstown in a couple years.

Speaker 2 Yes. Love it.
You look good, by the way, too. Have you lost weight?

Speaker 4 Yeah, I lost 30 pounds. My wife said if I turn around, I'll find it.

Speaker 1 I love it. All right.
Well, thank you so much, Joe. We appreciate it.
And good luck with the podcast.

Speaker 4 Enjoyed it. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1 Okay, let's finish up with some NFL draft talk. Winners, losers, draft grades, futures you're going to make.
I think I'm going to put a future on the Baltimore Ravens. Set it right now.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm that sold on them being like, hey, you know what we're going to do? We're just going to not even pass the ball.

Speaker 1 We're just going to run the ball and play defense and have a bunch of fucking crazy ass dudes on defense.

Speaker 2 Regrettably, Regrettably, I think that the Eagles killed this draft. Yeah, I think they just destroyed it.

Speaker 2 Like when they got Nicobie Dean, I think everybody who was watching was like, oh yeah, that guy should have been the first overall pick. Fuck, we all just kind of forgot that he existed.

Speaker 1 He's got a lot of injury. He's undersized, but I agree.
Like he's awesome, and they got him in the fourth round. And I agree.

Speaker 1 I think I might put a future on the Eagles and the Ravens. Yeah, the Eagles.
I love that.

Speaker 2 The Eagles are going to be really, really good. And the injury stuff with Dean, I think, is like, it's very weird what's happened with him because he swears that he's healthy.

Speaker 2 And then all the people behind the scenes are whispering, like, he might not even play next year. But he's like, no, I'm good to go.
So I have no idea what's going to go on there.

Speaker 2 But I love everything the Eagles did regrettably in this draft.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and I was actually thinking about it. I don't know.
The AFC is going to be an absolute fucking war because the Chiefs, I thought, got better. They added a lot of defense.
And

Speaker 1 I think they got a lot tougher on defense. And I'm not just saying that because they got Leo Chennault from Wisconsin, but they also got, what's his name from Purdue? The Greek freak.

Speaker 1 New Greek freak. Yeah.

Speaker 1 The Bills filled the holes they needed to fill

Speaker 1 with a running back and a cornerback early. The Chargers got offensive line.
The Colts had no picks in the first couple rounds, but they got a bunch of freaks.

Speaker 1 I don't know how anyone's... Like, the AFC is just so fucking stacked.

Speaker 2 Well, the Chiefs also got Sky Moore. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Which is, that's a guy that we were told, like, here's a guy that you should pay attention to that's going to be maybe the best receiver that does not go in that first run. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's crazy.

Speaker 2 He runs, what, like a 4.29 or something like that? Is that the guy, Sky Moore?

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's sick. Insane.

Speaker 1 I just don't know. The AFC has so many good teams, and I didn't even mention the Bengals who went to the Super Bowl.

Speaker 1 I don't know. It's going to be tough sledding.
And the Steelers, too. The Steelers got two wide receivers.

Speaker 1 They got like a guy, Calvin Austin, who runs a crazy, crazy, crazy fast, and then George Pickens, who's an absolute stud, who, outside of character issues, probably would have been a first-round pick.

Speaker 2 They also got Hayward. So now the Steelers have

Speaker 2 four sets of brothers on their team. Wild.
So it's very wild. Brutal.

Speaker 1 Wild.

Speaker 2 They're the wildest team. Yeah, it's scary stuff.
It would be for people that are betting on first touchdowns of the game. Make sure that you check the initial for the first name there.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 I got to find it.

Speaker 2 Four sets of brothers. So here it is.

Speaker 1 It's TJ and Derek Watt,

Speaker 1 Terrell and Trey Edmonds, Carlos and Khalil Davis, and then Cameron and Connor Hayward. They also have two fullbacks now? Yep.

Speaker 2 Well, Hayward is not like a traditional fullback. He's like a tight end hybrid.
Right. There was a lot of discrepancy during low-man voting whether he should be counted as a fullback.

Speaker 2 He has played fullback in the past, but he's also like a pretty good pass catcher.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a torture chamber for you, Hank.

Speaker 1 We should talk about Sam Howell, Stephen Shea's number one pick overall in last year's Too Soon mock mock draft.

Speaker 2 What a steal.

Speaker 1 What a steal.

Speaker 2 And if I just completely forget everything I saw from Sam Howell last year, I can convince myself that he is our Tom Brady.

Speaker 1 I like Sam Howell. I like him too.

Speaker 5 He was number one overall.

Speaker 1 Yes, Stephen Shea's early mock draft that he releases the day, the minute Mr. Relevant is announced, he releases his draft for the next year.
And last year, it was Sam Howell number one.

Speaker 2 Project him first overall. That's the mock draft.

Speaker 2 By the way, that's the mock draft that I base my particular player rankings on, is his first first one. So we got the number one overall pick in the draft in the fifth round this year.

Speaker 2 I just want to say I am a die-hard Carson Wentz defender. I love everything that he's bringing to the table right now.
You know that about me. Carson, I know you're an AWL.
You listen to the show.

Speaker 2 It's so disrespectful what the commanders just did to you by drafting a quarterback in the fifth round.

Speaker 1 Who's number one overall?

Speaker 2 You should demand a trade, Carson. You don't deserve to be treated like this.
Demand a trade.

Speaker 2 Get traded to the Cleveland Browns for Baker Mayfield because I don't want you to be hurt by this franchise. You need to get out and look out for yourself.
First and foremost, I love you so much.

Speaker 2 I just think that you should definitely take this as an opportunity to demand a trade.

Speaker 1 Yes. Sam Howell, thick.
Thick. So much so, he called me fat online because I called him fat last year because I was like, dude, he's looking fat.
And he's like, big cat, you're looking fat.

Speaker 1 I was like, touche, dude. That's actually totally fair.
But he can run.

Speaker 1 He's one of those guys, too, where I think it's definitely worth where the commanders drafted him because he had a ton of talent his sophomore year around him. A lot of guys left.

Speaker 1 His numbers obviously weren't the same. And he also had like Heisman hype going into the season.
Remember, they lost to Virginia Tech week one.

Speaker 1 He's absolutely worth a fifth-round pick.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, even the mocks that I was going back and reading after we drafted him because I wanted to learn everything about him after we got him.

Speaker 2 Everyone had him be going in like the second or third third round this year. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Quarterbacks just fell off the face of the earth. I mean, Malik Willis going to the Titans, that was kind of a

Speaker 1 little bit of a steal too.

Speaker 2 What happened with Malik Willis? I feel like we all got punked. I feel like there was somebody that was making like a big inside joke that Malik Willis is going to be a top 10 quarterback.

Speaker 2 And then obviously that was not, whoever his agent is did a wonderful job at hyping him up before the draft. It didn't work out.

Speaker 1 So here's my theory.

Speaker 1 And I hope this is a theory because it actually, like, it's, I've been thinking a lot about the Bears draft because I actually love what Ryan Poles did, and he essentially was like, we need everything, so let's get as many picks as possible.

Speaker 1 They went in to the draft with six picks. They came out with 11.
So they're doing a bunch of trades on Saturday. I think that a lot of teams are probably saying next year is the year for quarterbacks.

Speaker 1 So why spend a first-round pick?

Speaker 1 The weird thing with quarterbacks, too, is second-round, like quarterbacks don't get picked in the second round usually. It's just not, it's, it's probably,

Speaker 1 I don't know, I'd have to look at the whole draft chart, but a lot, like, if you, if you feel like he's a guy, you draft him in the first round so you get the extra year. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And if not, he usually slides. But I think a lot of teams are like, next year is the year.
And what I'm hoping what the Bears do is they're going to suck. I know they're going to suck.

Speaker 1 And then next year, they trade their pick and they get a ton of picks. I hope we just get picks.
I just want to become a franchise that just gets picks. I want picks, picks, picks all the time.

Speaker 1 Just give me all the picks. And that's like I could, I can transition to just being like a

Speaker 1 future guy. You know what I mean? Like, my pain doesn't hurt now because we have, I want to be the Oklahoma City Thunder.
I want to have, I want to have 15 picks in a draft three years from.

Speaker 1 Cap space. Yeah.
Go, we have cap space. We need picks.
And so I'm hoping that's the case.

Speaker 1 And then next year the Bears are able to do some wheeling and dealing and come away with like 16 picks because that's all I'm like. They suck.
They're going to suck. And yeah, I want that.

Speaker 1 I also like Ryan Poles because he actually, I haven't seen this very often.

Speaker 1 He had his scouts like, he basically was like, I had all my scouts sit down, give me their top three that they're most, like their highest conviction of, put it on the board.

Speaker 1 And then after they drew anyone who was drafted from the scouts area, he had meet with the media. And I was like, oh, that's refreshing.

Speaker 1 That's not Ryan Pace essentially saying, I'm not going to listen to your scouts. I'm just going to draft a guy because he drives a shitty car.
Yeah. So that was cool.

Speaker 1 But yeah, I think that's the answer for the quarterbacks is that a lot of teams are like, next year's the year.

Speaker 1 But it's still insane that, like, we were all told that Malik Willis was going to be a first-round pick.

Speaker 2 Stephen Che, yeah. Stevens.
Well, everybody. Everyone.
Like, some people had Malik Willis in the top 10, in the top five.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And then, and then he slides all the way down.
All the quarterbacks did. It was just crazy to me to see that happen.

Speaker 2 You're probably right, though, that teams are looking at next year's draft class and factoring that into what they do this year.

Speaker 2 And if you're one of those people that likes to go around reading the draft grades right after the draft happens, I like to remind myself of this one every year. This was from 2012.

Speaker 2 The 2012 Seattle Seahawks draft. Okay.
So just to refresh memories,

Speaker 2 they picked Bruce Irvin, Bobby Wagner, and Russell Wilson in this draft. Okay.
So here is the bleach report, 2012 NFL draft grade for the Seahawks.

Speaker 2 After one of the worst picks in the first round I can ever remember, the Seattle Seahawks didn't draft any positions of need or draft for the future.

Speaker 2 Pete Carroll is proving why he didn't make it in the NFL the first time.

Speaker 2 Not only was Bruce Irvin a reach at number 15, the Seahawks proved they were oblivious to their madness by celebrating the selection.

Speaker 2 As if that day wasn't bad enough, Seattle selecting Russell Wilson, a QB that doesn't fit their offense at all, was by far the worst move of the draft.

Speaker 2 With the two worst moves of the draft, Seattle is the only team that received an F on draft day. Grade F.

Speaker 1 It's perfect. And there's also, remember that,

Speaker 1 I can't find it right now, but there was that stretch where the Jaguars got an A-plus every year. Yeah.
And it's like, I'm not talking about when Blake Portals took them to the AFC championship game.

Speaker 1 It was before that, And it was just year after year. It's like A plus, A plus, A plus.
When they drafted Matt Jones, the quarterback to play wide receiver, A plus. A plus.
That's a great reminder.

Speaker 1 I have a Seahawks reminder that I want to read that's going to make us feel old. Actually,

Speaker 1 it's going to make Hank and Liam feel old too. Maybe not Billy.
Okay. It's going to hurt us.
Are you ready for it? No.

Speaker 1 Okay. So cornerback Kobe Bryant.
spelled C-O-B-Y, not how Kobe's name was spelled. Kobe Bryant out of Cincinnati, drafted by Seattle.

Speaker 1 After he was drafted by Seattle, he said, my dad used to talk to me about Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, and Cam Chancellor growing up. They were actually my favorite group growing up.
Like,

Speaker 1 that was like two years ago. That was, yeah, you can get the.
The Legion of Boom was like a year ago.

Speaker 2 You can't say that.

Speaker 1 Like, I used to sit on my dad's knee and he would tell me about the days of Legion of Boom. What the fuck?

Speaker 2 Yeah, my dad used to talk to me about Richard Sherman. My mom would sing me Drake songs as I was falling asleep.

Speaker 1 What the fuck? The good old days.

Speaker 1 I saw that. The NFL official account tweeted.
I was like, oh, my God.

Speaker 1 Age sucks. Getting old sucks.

Speaker 2 I hate that.

Speaker 1 It's brutal.

Speaker 2 Oh, we drafted Chris Paul. The commander's got a guy named Chris Paul on the team.
So Ryan Rossello, I'm now firmly, me and you are the two guys that'll die on that hill.

Speaker 1 Rosillo, man, he's got, I mean,

Speaker 2 live look at Ryan Rossello. It's the gift of the guy that's just walking around on fire.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, just ready to go. There also was a very confusing, I think the Packers drafted Zach Tom is his name, which is an all-time two-first name guy.

Speaker 2 That guy's a douchebag. I don't know anything about him and no disrespect to Zach Tom, but you're a douchebag.
That's your name.

Speaker 1 So here's the crazy part that is very confusing to me. The Packers drafted Zach Tom.
The Bears drafted Zachary Thomas.

Speaker 1 I'd rather have Zachary Thomas. I would too, but

Speaker 1 what are the odds of that? Like, how is a guy named Zach Tom?

Speaker 2 Zach Tom sounds like one of those creative player names. If you get a Korean-designed MLB, the show knockoff game, yeah, and that's like their idea of an American name.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Zach Tom. I mean, that's how's that a

Speaker 1 full name?

Speaker 2 It's stupid.

Speaker 2 That guy's a douchebag. It's crazy.

Speaker 1 Both offensive linemen, too. So that's going to get confusing.
Zach Tom versus Zachary Thomas.

Speaker 1 Any other... I'm trying to think.
Oh, Mel Kuyper. By the end, they hated him so much because he was on Zoom the whole time.
And it was just very funny.

Speaker 1 Like, I turned it on around two, or maybe it was like two o'clock on Saturday, and everyone's like, dude, Mel, just shut up. Shut up.

Speaker 2 I'm still trying to figure out why Mel Kuyper wasn't. I think that there's something else going on.
We ran through some theories on Friday about, like, maybe he's banned from casinos.

Speaker 2 Well, he might just be on a no-fly list.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he might be.

Speaker 2 For just eating too much pie on flights and annoying the flight attendants.

Speaker 1 And Mel Kuyper doing his zoomed-in head nod for three days straight. I think that's probably what they were sick of.

Speaker 1 But it was funny watching it get a little chippy towards the end, where there was a moment where

Speaker 1 McShea was just like, all right, all right, Mel, like, let's fucking wrap this up.

Speaker 1 We actually have a show we got to do here.

Speaker 2 Let's give out one F. Okay.
Let's give out one F.

Speaker 2 I'm going to give it to.

Speaker 1 Oh, the Jets had a good draft, too.

Speaker 2 They did. The Jets killed it.
They had a very good draft.

Speaker 1 I'm going to.

Speaker 1 Let's see.

Speaker 2 Vikings.

Speaker 1 Ooh.

Speaker 1 Vikings traded a lot in division, which was weird.

Speaker 2 Because I didn't like that guy that got up there and talked for five minutes. Yeah.
And just ran. He gave like a complete oral history of his career.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. That was.
That was funny, though. I wish he, like, I didn't want him to end.

Speaker 2 Well, yeah, it was lame that they kicked him off, but while he was still doing it, it was.

Speaker 2 I felt like I was taking crazy pills. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It was like this guy is still going. I mean, they physically had a woman come out and be like, hey, dude, you got to wrap this up.

Speaker 5 How does the guy that punched the ball 70 yards per punt get drafted after two other punters? Yeah, that's weird, right? That made no sense to me.

Speaker 2 Or Areza, the guy that went up to Buffalo?

Speaker 1 Maybe it was like the...

Speaker 1 I was trying to figure it out, too. Maybe it was because he played for San Diego State and they just had no offense, so his numbers are all out of whack because he always had to punt.
Like,

Speaker 1 they... He still hits bombs or punches.
He does.

Speaker 1 But you can only hit bombs if your...

Speaker 1 Offense is backed up.

Speaker 2 I read a quote from the coach that was saying, like, a lot of times on offense, we get pumped up if we don't cross our own 20 yard line because it means we get to send our punter out there and see how long he can get one do you think who do you think can can get the ball further downfield josh allen throwing it or the punt guy a razor find out yeah punting it might have to go back to buffalo imagine that wind at the game that we went to if it was at his back how long do you think he'd be able to punt the ball probably like he could probably punt the ball literally out of the stadium yeah that wind yes uh three things uh first thing on the punter uh the the reason he fell was because a lot of people thought he was going to outkick the coverage, and that was the one theory why he fell.

Speaker 6 Also, back to Malik Willis, the first time Malik Willis came into the national conscious was during that video that went viral of him giving his clothes to the homeless guy.

Speaker 2 Yep.

Speaker 6 So it could have been an amazing PR presentation from his team.

Speaker 2 People were already talking about him after the Senior Bowl.

Speaker 1 I was talking about him when his Liberty team sucked this year because I was not a big Malik Willis fan. I was like, dude, if you're going to be a first-round pick, Liberty should win some more games.

Speaker 2 Maybe Scouts.

Speaker 2 Maybe they dug into that and they found out that the homeless guy was a plant. Yeah.
They did their legwork, and then they red-flagged him.

Speaker 2 And they're like, we can't use a first-round pick on a guy that does this with a fake homeless person.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's definitely what happened.

Speaker 2 Or maybe it was just that Hugh Freeze talked him up just so he could get a free ticket to Vegas this weekend.

Speaker 2 That was funny seeing Hugh Freeze in Vegas. What are you getting into?

Speaker 1 Yeah, like, dude, you shouldn't be here.

Speaker 2 You and Dan Orlofsky, the two horniest guys in football.

Speaker 1 All right,

Speaker 1 I'm going to give the Jaguars an F.

Speaker 2 Is that okay? But you're forgetting they got another first-round pick in Travis ATN from last year.

Speaker 1 Ah, fuck. All right, so that doesn't count.
You're right. That's a good call.
They absolutely,

Speaker 1 that's a loaded draft now. Yeah.
Because they have both those guys.

Speaker 2 You can do the Texans.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I like Derek Stingley.

Speaker 1 You know what? I'm going to give the Saints an F.

Speaker 2 Saints F from Big Cat. Vikings F from me.
Yeah. Big Cat.

Speaker 2 Hank, who's your F?

Speaker 1 And there's no basis behind the F for the Saints. I think they just didn't have a ton of picks.
There was someone who

Speaker 1 someone was like, look at what the Giants are doing in this draft compared to the Bears. And I was like, yeah, dude, they have a shitload of picks.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yes, you're right.

Speaker 2 It's actually, if you look up and see who has the most draft picks, I guarantee you they just get higher grades just because they get more guys.

Speaker 1 The Jets had an awesome. I'm not saying the Jets didn't have an awesome draft.
They had three first-round picks. Like, they should have an awesome draft.
Do you remember? I don't know.

Speaker 1 This is one of those things I was on the podcast or when we came in on Sunday. I'm pretty sure Hank said that Punter should be the number one pick.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 After we bet on him.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, that's right.

Speaker 5 I guess I didn't factor in the outkick in the coverage. Yeah.
I thought, like, you just want your punters to hit as far as they can.

Speaker 2 You can just tell him to keep it like that.

Speaker 1 It's like an insane game, though.

Speaker 5 I was mind-blown when I saw that two other punters got drafted before him.

Speaker 1 They might have better coughing corners.

Speaker 1 He might be a one-trick pony.

Speaker 5 My F is the Cardinals.

Speaker 1 Oh, actually, you know what? Can I change them? Because I actually agree. No, I agree.
Okay, fine. Fine.
But I agree. Why did he not like the Cardinals?

Speaker 1 The Cardinals are basically creating a team where everyone is small and fast, and in December,

Speaker 1 it's going to be like, why aren't the Cardinals good? Oh, I don't know because they're all hurt and can't stand 17 games.

Speaker 2 No, that's the best part about the Cardinals. They're the littlest people.

Speaker 2 They do, yeah, just to counterbalance. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But yeah, I don't know what the Cardinals are doing. Makes no sense.

Speaker 1 What's your F?

Speaker 6 My F's the Patriots. I think the Bailey Zap pick is actually going to do

Speaker 6 Zap B is going to mess with Mac Jones' head too much. It may have been a motivation tactic, but

Speaker 2 so I want to agree with Billy because I also don't play.

Speaker 5 Well, you're a wide receiver.

Speaker 1 Wow. Wow, Hank.

Speaker 6 When did I become tough for the conversation?

Speaker 1 What are you saying being a quarterback? What are you listening to? No, I said picking a quarterback.

Speaker 6 Also, quick fact,

Speaker 1 Sam Howell.

Speaker 6 I don't play anymore.

Speaker 1 I'm not defensive weapon.

Speaker 2 but you definitely said sam howell had the fastest throw at the nfl draft with 59 miles there we go i love it throws it hard qb1 does he throw too hard

Speaker 1 definitely not i just scrolled i'm my my official grade f is the dolphins they only had four picks that's crazy that is not four picks sounds like you gave out three f's i saints the dolphins and the cardinals all had f's and mine i'm just going with the vikings on i just also scrolled mel kuyper and he didn't give anyone less than a b minus

Speaker 2 i'm also going to give the cowboys an f there you go

Speaker 2 Let's get some more F's. Cowboys get an F.

Speaker 1 Second round of F.

Speaker 2 You can tell, it's so funny how cucked McCarthy is when he does these press conferences with Jerry Jones. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because Jerry Jones talks about the picks and he's like, yeah, you know, sometimes we go around the room and we get a group consensus. Other times it's me that makes all the picks.

Speaker 2 Like Michael Parsons, that was my pick last year. And then Mike McCarthy literally says in the microphone, I don't even know why I come to these things anymore.

Speaker 2 Jerry wasn't letting him talk.

Speaker 1 He's so dead, man. He's dead.
Hank, your second F.

Speaker 1 Two? Yeah, we should just keep going around until everyone gets an F.

Speaker 1 The grades are the best. It's so stupid.
And everyone just has such firm grades.

Speaker 2 Oh, I'm giving the Seahawks an F.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So you have three as well.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Seahawks are getting an F. They should have traded for Baker Mayfield.
Like, I don't know what they're doing.

Speaker 1 So, what, where is Baker Mayfield going to play football next year? I don't know. Because the Panthers were the spot that he had most rumors.

Speaker 1 And then they drafted Matt Corral in, what, the third round?

Speaker 1 Made fourth round I can't remember

Speaker 2 it's crazy to think that Baker Mayfield they couldn't figure out like what he was worth in the draft and going if you had asked us at the start of last year what would Baker Mayfield be on the open market probably like I don't know second round pick yeah something like that feels right

Speaker 2 now it's like he's a fourth or fifth round pick for Mayfield it's crazy I don't know what like

Speaker 2 where is he gonna play next I don't think that Deshaun Watson is gonna play next year the more I think about it the more I think that Roger Goodell is gonna step in and be like that's awkward roger giddell champion of women everywhere yeah and we're suspending deshaun watson next year and holy that would be awkward if baker plays and then baker's not going to play i don't think well i mean he'd have to i don't know because like what if he didn't play

Speaker 1 it would be very bad like for his future if he played and balled out that would kind of you know he'd set himself up I think they're still going to try to trade him, but you're not going to be able to get anything.

Speaker 1 I'm going through the mental Rolodex in my head. What teams need a day one starter besides the Seahawks?

Speaker 1 I mean, the Texans have Davis Mills. He's awesome.
I guess maybe you wait till there's an injury? Yeah. Who are you going to get?

Speaker 2 Yeah, like a preseason injury.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 6 I was going to give the Texans another F because I think they needed a quarterback.

Speaker 1 Okay, nice.

Speaker 1 Well, Davis Mills is a fucking good dude.

Speaker 6 I know, but I feel like it would have been a good place to get.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, who's your, Liam, who's your F? I really just want to get to a point where half the grades are F's.
Because that's, We need memes. Can memes.
He's going to listen to this.

Speaker 1 Oh, I'll go, Jetson.

Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 1 we need a big list of our grades, and so it will just be only the Fs.

Speaker 2 Should we give out any A's?

Speaker 1 The Jets got an A in my mind because they had so many picks. A plus.
Eagles. No, I didn't say that.
I'm giving the Eagles an A plus. Eagles, A plus.

Speaker 2 Eagles and Commanders get A pluses from me. I'll give the Bears an A plus, too.

Speaker 1 They got 11 picks. That's a lot of picks.
I'll give Panthers.

Speaker 1 We got the best quarterback in the 2021 draft.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Dude, you know what? Give

Speaker 1 everyone who we gave an F, have our rankings out

Speaker 1 and have it just be only A pluses and only Fs. So whoever we gave Fs to,

Speaker 1 and then everyone else gets an A plus. Yeah,

Speaker 1 except the.

Speaker 1 Let's go with...

Speaker 1 Who's the fan base that will get most?

Speaker 1 Give the Steelers a C.

Speaker 1 Chief.

Speaker 1 I like that. No, no, no, they got an A plus.

Speaker 2 Yeah, give the.

Speaker 2 Actually, switch my Cowboys' grade to F-

Speaker 1 Yeah. All right, that's perfect.
That's our draft recap.

Speaker 2 I think we crushed that. Yeah, that was good.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we gave you everything you needed to know.

Speaker 2 The thing is, you can't judge our draft grades until five years from now to see how it actually pans out.

Speaker 1 It's also.

Speaker 2 It's by our metrics, too.

Speaker 2 It's not our opinions about it. This is the formula and the data that's telling us.

Speaker 1 My favorite part about the NFL draft, when it ends, every fan does the same exact thing because I did it this morning.

Speaker 1 You just basically search the internet till you can find someone who gave your team a really good grade. Yep.

Speaker 1 Because there are so many grades out there that, like, I searched high and low, and I finally found someone who was like B plus, A minus for the Bears. I was like, all right, good.
We're good to go.

Speaker 1 This feels good. And just ignore everything else.

Speaker 2 Yeah, nobody really knows anything about what's going to happen. So

Speaker 2 who cares? Yeah, who cares? Except our grades are correct.

Speaker 1 Our grades are factual in nature.

Speaker 6 We grade on a curve, too.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we do grade on a curve. Absolutely.
Bell curve.

Speaker 1 Dude, I remember freshman year, I walked into a class, and it was like, I think it was like Econ 101, and they explained the curve the first day, and I was like, I'm out, and I withdrew.

Speaker 2 I still don't understand the curve.

Speaker 1 It's just you can't, like, if there's 10% of the class is smarter than you, you can't get an A, even if you get everything right. And it's both.

Speaker 1 But I'm not smart enough.

Speaker 2 If you're in a really dumb class, then it's easy to get an A, right?

Speaker 1 Correct. But it was one of those classes at Wisconsin's like 300 people and I was just playing my odds, like, I am not top 10% smart here.
I'm out of this class.

Speaker 2 You think if a professor just straight up gave like a 300-person class, if they gave everybody B-pluses, do you think anyone would complain? Yes.

Speaker 1 Yes, absolutely. There's absolutely at least 10 people who would be like, I deserve an A.
That's what I would do as a business. You know those people.
Yes. Yeah.
You're right. You know exactly.

Speaker 2 What I would do would, like, on the midterms, I'd give out the midterm grammars. It would be like, everyone gets a B plus.

Speaker 1 Then the 10 people that complain, I'd just be like yeah okay you get an A yeah and then everyone else is happy and you don't have to do any work yeah who whoever complains just gets an A yeah yeah that's how it works yeah that's that's kind of how life works it is you just complain your way through you can get you know discounts and everything or like no badge badges on Yelp dude this is absolutely true like like fucking whoever's a head of a homeowners association that's just the top complainer in the neighborhood so start complaining more no no because that person sucks yeah we hate them but then they get stuff no it's one of those weird things in life where you see someone who's a total asshole who complains.

Speaker 1 And it's just, they have it in their nature. Like, they're the person who will send back food at a restaurant.
They'll fucking complain about an air.

Speaker 1 Like, they'll be up at the counter at the airline complaining for like rewards points, all these things.

Speaker 1 And you're like, that person sucks, but also they get so much free shit because they just go the extra mile of being an asshole.

Speaker 2 It almost becomes a game to them to see what they can complain about and win. Right.

Speaker 2 And so then it's like every interaction with someone in customer service or someone who's just like in retail, it's like, I know I can get something from that person.

Speaker 2 I'm going to go do my performative asshole thing. And it works for them.
It works for them. But then they're never happy with what they actually get.

Speaker 2 They just like the feeling of winning in the complaint.

Speaker 1 I'm the opposite of the complainer where I like, if they're like, hey, you can get a refund if you fill out this simple form. I'm like, nope, paperwork.
Nope, absolutely not. I'm out.

Speaker 1 No resistance from me.

Speaker 2 If I'm like looking for a refund on an app and the

Speaker 2 credit card number comes in where it's the horizontal bar and not the nice uh like dial pad style for me to put my credit card number in i'm like no i'm i'm sorry i can't do that how about how about when you get something and it like doesn't fit and you have to send it back no no never i just yeah

Speaker 2 i just get completely like hit into submission by any retail establishment

Speaker 1 yeah my favorite is going to a place and and like buying clothes and they're like do you need a receipt and i'm like nope because let's be honest here if i don't like something I'm just living with this decision.

Speaker 1 I'm not coming all the way back here. Yep.
There's no chance. So, yeah, don't be the complainer.
I don't know how that has anything to do with the draft, but how do we?

Speaker 2 People who complain about our draft grades?

Speaker 1 I don't know. Oh, the curve.
Curve. Curve.
Yeah. The club complaining in classes.
Yeah. All right.
Numbers. Give me a.

Speaker 2 Hank, you still haven't won this? Six. Seven.

Speaker 1 I do six.

Speaker 2 All right. You want six? Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. Hank, what are you?

Speaker 1 I'm going to go eight.

Speaker 2 96.

Speaker 1 I'm going to, I'm going to start. It's so funny.
I'm going to start tailing Hank.

Speaker 2 It's so funny that we do this every time, but we don't know the numbers that everyone picks.

Speaker 1 We turn on it.

Speaker 2 Bubba, you really pick six every time?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it hasn't been picked up.

Speaker 2 All right, 96. I had a stretch it was 22.
69. You know what I realized about 69?

Speaker 1 It's really the yin-yang symbol.

Speaker 2 You just realized that? So it's like vibes.

Speaker 1 24.

Speaker 2 Would you pick Hank?

Speaker 1 Kobe. Seven.
Ah. R.I.P.
I'm going to start boxing Hank in.

Speaker 6 The U.S. Navy also has trained dolphins.

Speaker 2 Love Love you guys.

Speaker 2 Talking away.

Speaker 2 I don't know what I'm just saying I'd say anyway.

Speaker 2 Today's another day to find you shy away.

Speaker 1 Oh, Oh, I'll be coming for your love, okay?

Speaker 1 Take on me.

Speaker 1 Take me

Speaker 1 on.

Speaker 1 Needless to say,

Speaker 1 I'm outset in this bumpy stone.

Speaker 1 Tell me the new life is okay.

Speaker 1 Say after me.

Speaker 10 It's the better to be safe than sorry.

Speaker 1 Take

Speaker 1 on me.

Speaker 1 Take me on

Speaker 1 I'll be

Speaker 1 gone

Speaker 1 in a day I'm to

Speaker 1 all the things that we say

Speaker 1 Just to play my memories away

Speaker 1 You're all the things I've got to remember If you're shying away

Speaker 1 I'll be coming for you anyway

Speaker 1 If you're shying away

Speaker 1 I'll be coming for you anyway.

Speaker 1 Take on

Speaker 1 me.

Speaker 1 Take

Speaker 1 me up.

Speaker 1 I'll be

Speaker 1 gone

Speaker 1 in a day.

Speaker 1 I'll be gone

Speaker 1 in a day.

Speaker 1 yeah,

Speaker 1 but just to play my worries away.

Speaker 1 You're all the things I've got to remember. You're shying away.

Speaker 1 Well, I'll be coming for you anyway.

Speaker 1 He's shy and away.

Speaker 1 I'll be coming for you anyway. Take

Speaker 1 on

Speaker 1 me.

Speaker 1 Take

Speaker 1 me

Speaker 1 up.

Speaker 1 I'll be gone

Speaker 1 in a day.

Speaker 1 They believe

Speaker 1 you