Coach Dick Vermeil, Mike Florio, CFB & Guys On Chicks

Hey, Pardon My Take listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music.
As we progress through the season, every fan knows that big wins are hard to come by and tough losses are even harder to accept. But you know what isn't hard to accept? Discover.
Believe it or not, Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide you heard that right 99 so make a good call for your wallet and get discover based on the february 2024 nielsen report learn more at discover.com credit card on today's part in my take we have a twofer for the people we have dick vermil all-time football guy great football discussion with coach dick vermil super bowl champion dick vermil future hall of famer dick vermil uh he's seen and been around more football than any of us could ever dream of great interview with him and then we have mike florio our good friend mike florio to talk about uh about the Tom Brady 600th touchdown ball and Deshaun Watson possibly getting traded very, very, very, very soon. We also have Monday Night Football, a little college football talk, a little World Series, Hot Seat, Cool Throne, and Guys on Chicks.
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Okay, let's go. In the street there is violence, and then a lot of work to be done.
No place to hang out or wash in, and then I can't blame all on the sun. Oh no, we're gonna rock down to Electric Avenue, and then we'll take it higher.
Oh, we're gonna rock down to Electric Avenue, and then we'll take it higher. It's part of my take presented by barstool sports welcome to part of my take presented by betterhelp.com slash pmt today is wednesday october 27th and i want to do a mental flush boys i want to do a mental flush boys and girls of week seven get it out of our system boy did that stink Monday Night Football I'm actually happy that Monday Night Football was as bad as it was because I didn't want them to be like oh week seven wasn't that bad you had the Dolphins and Falcons in this great Monday Night Football game no it sucked we're moving on that's the way was.
Geno Smith versus Jameis Winston.

And Geno Smith with almost the greatest Josh Rosen stat line of all time,

where if he hadn't thrown the 84-yard touchdown to DK Metcalf,

he would have been 11 for 21 for like 60 yards.

Yeah, I think Marshawn Lynch put it best when he just said,

what the fuck?

Yeah.

That's how I felt watching the entire game.

And at the beginning, when they had that 84-yard touchdown pass to DK, DK I was like maybe the weather does affect the defense more than it affects the offense maybe we'll get some points turns out that was foolish for me to ever have believed that correct so it was a boring ass game filled with shitty stuff that sucked and on top of everything Eli Manning had to apologize for Arnois Payton had to apologize for Marshawn Lynch cussing on the broadcast that was the best part of the night if you invite Marshawn Lynch onto a broadcast you're lucky if you get away with him just dropping shit three times and fuck once he was three hennies deep and that's what you get when you invite Pat McAfee on do you expect that he's going to wear sleeves nope nope not at all when you invite rob gronkowski on are you like hopefully rob won't tell any whimsical stories nope no don't say that nope this is what you get when you invite beast mode on the show in fact i would just like to watch beast mode be disappointed at shitty games for the rest of the season just watch and be like what the fuck are they doing out there yeah um you mentioned weather which has been a big topic on this show recently. We're a weather first podcast.
I did notice in the pregame, our good friend Will Brinson, who is not really my good friend anymore because he keeps getting me to bet on NC State, and they suck as a program. He noted that both Jameis and Geno told Lisa Salters before the game, they like the challenge of throwing in the rain and won't wear gloves tonight.
And Geno Smith even said he prefers a wet ball. Jameis Winston's 0-5 lifetime, 6 touchdowns, 12 interceptions in rain games.
Geno 0-1, 0 touchdowns, 3 interceptions. They still like throwing.
They stink at it. The confidence was incredible for both of these guys.
Well, Jameis was okay. Geno was.
But you don't have to be good at something to really enjoy it. Yeah, that's true.
Most people who golf or fuck are terrible at both. And they still really enjoy the recreation.
The Geno Smith, that was actually, it was illuminating for me because it was similar to basically what everyone does when they watch the Bears or the Wisconsin Badgers play offense. Where it's like, oh, they don't want the quarterback to do any type of throwing.
There was that one drive where they ran it eight times in a row. And then even in the last drive, I think that might have been the worst final drive of all time.
They went backwards. He almost got sacked for the point spread.
It was so bad. I bet that there would be a safety in that game.
And I almost got it on the last play. It was like fourth and 28.
Hank inspired me because he was taking a lot of safety bets on Sunday. So I took this one, and I was like, surely they're not going to keep taking sacks on this drive.
And they did. Yeah, I wish they had given Geno 10 downs because he would have been out of the stadium.
They would have sacked him out of the stadium. We would have erased Dan Orlovsky's name from the record books based on how deep Gino Smith would have gotten on that last play.
Like, you got to throw the ball. And the Saints really weren't doing that much more passing.
Well, Alvin Kamara is incredible. He was basically the only guy on the field.
You're like, that guy plays football. The trap play that they called for him on like third and I forget what it was, like and 10 something like that on that last drive where they end up kicking the field goal they called a running play and he ended up getting like 12 yards a few yards past the first down marker it showed you that sean payton really didn't want to try passing the ball much either um and kevin white was electric he was kevin white has he is terrible he dropped He dropped our beautiful boy Jameis' deep ball.
That was on a fucking dime.

He's got two things that are working against him. Otherwise, he's an elite receiver.
Catching the football and staying on the field. Take those out.
He's one of the best receivers of all time. He's the Ben Simmons of wide receivers.
Those are important. I'll admit.
A hand up, I'll say, you know what? Catching the football if you're a wide receiver, important.

But he does. The reason why Jameis was

throwing it to him is because the guy can

get open. Yeah.
Jameis has

added a couple new moves to his repertoire. I don't know

if you've noticed this about our beautiful

What would you call Jameis?

We have a lot

invested in Jameis'

success, but he's added a couple new moves. One is where he drops back in the pocket, has a very clean pocket, and then he just points downfield when he's about to throw it.
He looks like he's doing the Saturday Night Fever dance, the John Travolta. He just points, and you know that something's about to go either very, very right or extremely wrong after that moment, and then he just guns it.
That's always right before he throws a nice downfield pass. And then his running motion has gotten more erratic in the last year.
I think it might be a result of the training. All of his muscles are firing too efficiently, maybe.
He's almost like the bones, no bones dog. Sometimes he's running and he has no bones.
I was saying that he's like when you see a NASCAR driver get engulfed by the invisible flames when they're sprinting around. Ricky Bobby, yeah.
That's kind of what he – the ethanol fire is kind of Jameis' body movement when he goes. But he did have maybe the play of the night when he dropped the snap.
Yes. Picked it up again.
Then threw – With his tiny little hand. It was tiny little hand.
Threw Kamara open. It was adorable.
Yep. It was – yeah, it was a bad game.
It was a bad game. Pete Carroll was chomping on gum.
But I really am happy because week seven was not fun, but it is still football. We've got to remind ourselves it's still football.
Week seven was one of the worst weeks start to finish. Because remember, we kind of forget that the Browns and the Broncos played that game that was not fun either on Thursday night.
It was an entire week of Browns-Broncos.

I felt like I watched that game 20 times just with different colors this weekend.

Yeah, the Falcons and the Dolphins played the best game.

So that tells you everything.

I think they were calling it Bi-Mageddon, which makes sense

because all the good teams were on Bi.

Next week or this week, week eight, we have some actually...

Here's the thing about week eight.

At bare minimum, we have the Cowboys and the Vikings playing Sunday Night Football. That's going to be some fuck shit.
It will be some fuck shit. And also week eight is not the halfway part.
Correct. We have an extra week this year.
Yes. The season is still young.
Yes, it is. All right.
Should we talk a little World Series? So this is probably the only show we will do where we're not going to recap a World Series game because we'll be here late on Sunday. And then if there's a game six, we'll be here late.
So why don't we just do predictions so that way people can laugh at us and be perverted and be like, you guys are really stupid and you don't know anything about baseball. Shout out that one Astros fan.
Let me read that. Let me do a quick Wednesday reading.
Yeah, I like that one. This was an Astros fan.
So at stake. It's just a guy that has like a million replies.
Yeah, let's just put it out there, though. At stake is the Astros and their fan base being able to basically tell everyone that it wasn't cheating that got them the World Series.
They're just a really good team. They basically win two World Series if they win this World Series.
Here's what's going to happen is Astros fans will very quickly become New England Patriots fans. They're not rooting for the same team, but it's the same mentality, right? Once you prove that it wasn't the accusations.
I'm just saying this is what's going to happen. It's going to prove to them that fuck all the haters.
It's us against the world. They actually cheated.
We'll get to that. Yeah, but they are able to...
What I'm saying, though, is if they win this one, they win too. Because everyone's kind of put an asterisk around the first one.
If they win this one, they can say, well, we were the best team on the first one as well. They still lost to the Nationals.
So this was the 2021 MLB champs. At 2021 MLB champs, he said, y'all might want to sit out the World Series.
Y'all are a football podcast. Y'all don't have a clue what y'all are talking about when it comes to the current game of baseball.
Astros fixing to dominate the Braves and prove we're just an actual good team. So that's what they're fighting against.
And then... We just got y'alled to death.
We got y'alled to death. Because the guy, when he's writing this, he's like, these guys are based out of New York City.
Yeah, city slickers. He's like, I'm going to drop four y'alls on them.
What was that old commercial? New York City. Yeah, there's paste-thick and chunky salsa from San Antone.
Yeah. Folks who know what salsa should taste like.
On the other side, we have the Braves, a tortured city, sports city, trying to beat all curses and everything alike. I am very much rooting for the Braves.
Braves fans are mad because I said Braves in six, and they're like, you jinxed it? Well, guess what? I mean, like I said, you guys are already jinxed to begin with, so what else can I do? There's nothing. I'm not adding any more jinxes to an already jinxed city.
I am rooting for the Braves, though. I hope they win it all.
Yeah, I don't know what the city of Atlanta can do to get rid of the jinx. It's been in place since 1996.
Since they got the Olympic Games, they sold their soul for that one. Nothing's gone right after that.
I don't know. Just take your name out of the hat for the next Olympic consideration.
Just be like, hey, we're done with the Olympics. But I'm also rooting for the Braves.
I think Braves in seven.

I think it's going to go the distance. I'm mostly just rooting for Big T because it's fun to see him giggle with delight.
Yeah. So I had this thought, and I'm doing this for Atlanta.
Nothing can be worse than the thought I had this morning. Saturday would be game four A Braves getting swept

In the World Series and then Georgia getting upset by Florida in Jacksonville. So there you go.
That could be that. That's rock bottom.
We build up from there. I had that thought pop in my head.
I was like, oh, that's ugly. You got a bargain.
If you're an Atlanta sports fan, you have to enter a bargain right now and say, us which one are you willing to give up are you willing to give up the georgia undefeated season or are you willing to give up the atlanta braves world series because i don't think that there's any chance in hell that they can get both right it just it can't it can't happen with the planet aligning i don't yet you have to prioritize in this circumstance i think they'd probably say the Braves winning. I think that's where most Atlanta...
Yeah. I don't know.
College football fans are crazy. Any other predictions? Anyone got their...
Let's all go on the record here. Hank.
Braves in seven. Okay.
Jake. Braves in five.

Oh, no.

Billy.

No.

Acuna, too, which is crazy.

Yeah, face of baseball.

Yeah.

He's not playing.

He hasn't been playing for a long time.

He's been injured all year.

Houston in seven.

Wow.

That is Hank's sabermetrics.

I actually agree.

Now I agree with World Series 2021 champions.

Yeah.

Hank, you all don't know what you're talking about.

Hank doesn't care when he gets the information as long as he gets the information in time. Okay.
I don't like it, but Astros in six. Oh, okay.
Are you trying to win that or lose it? I don't want it to happen, but I think it's going to happen. So are you trying to lose it? To win it.
No, he's trying to win it, but he's with much reluctance. He doesn't want to win it.
No, but you should try to lose that. You'd rather it lose.
Exactly. So you're trying to lose it.
No, because when Billy chooses a game that he's trying to lose, he actually just lies and said, hey, I like the over on this game, but in reality he really likes the under. Got it.
In this one he really does think that the Astros are going to win the World Series, but he regrets feeling that way. He's ashamed.
I don't want to be ashamed. Cheaters.
Yeah, don't be ashamed. Okay.
So, yeah, I hope the Braves can do it. I'm sure, also, yeah, the fucking Astros.
Fuck the Astros, man. They're not likable.
I mean, Altuve is kind of likable. Dusty Baker a little bit.
Yeah, Dusty Baker. I just like Altuve because he's short, Hank.
With Dusty on the Cubs, and he's old. Were you rooting for Dusty to not be successful after he left the Cubs? No, for a little bit it was a little like, hey, dude, you kind of whatever.
I didn't think that he did anything like, he kind of pitched Mark Pryor and Kerry Wood.

Yeah.

Kind of sent them out to pass a little bit.

Yeah.

Yeah, but he's a nice guy.

He's a baseball lifer.

Yes. He's one of those guys.

He's a baseball man.

I'm rooting for him.

I'm rooting for Dusty Baker a little bit, but yeah, you got to pull for the Bravos here.

Yeah.

Also taking the under.

Of the series?

This game tonight.

Oh, got it.

It's cloudy.

Chance of rain in Houston.

Under eight?

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

So, okay.

Has there ever been?

Is he trolling?

What is the... Also taking the under.
Of the series? This game tonight. Oh, got it.
It's cloudy. Chance of rain in Houston.
Under eight? Yeah. Oh, wow.
So, okay. Has there ever been...
See you trolling. When was the last time there was scorigami in the World Series? Is there baseball scorigamis? Probably not.
There's too many games. There's got to be scorigamis.
It would be so rare. Probably like 25 to 2 or something.
No, that happened. The Rangers and the Orioles had 30 to 3 once.
Can you try to find the most likely scoreigami in baseball? We also have a This Is Wild storyline in the World Series. Brian Snicker, manager of the Braves, and the Astros, his son, is the hitting coach.
That's wild. Buddy Boeheim quote-tweeted wild from the video yesterday, by the way.
So who are they rooting for? Who's the wife rooting for? The mom. It's a house-divided shirt, right? Damn.
I think you root for your son? Over your husband? I don't know. I think you do.
I think moms root for kids over spouses. Yeah, they're rooting for a seven-game series.
If you pulled 100 moms, they'd all root for their kids first. I think most dads root for the moms.

But most dads root for the moms.

Most wives root for the sons, if that were the case.

Dads root for the moms. If the mom was a hitting coach and then the son was also a different coach.

The mother's a doctor.

Yeah, the mother's a doctor.

My household, I wouldn't get rooted for. No one would be rooting for me.
No chance. I mean, I understand it.
You root for kids? Come on. I don't need, yeah.
Would you be rooting for your kid? You want a woman rooting for you? Pause. No, yeah.
Your kids are like, your kids getting all their dreams come true. So it's a win-win, basically.
Yeah, it is. I think if you had to like poll, I think parents will always root for their kids first.
I think a more fair question is like, is the dad rooting for his son? That's what I'm saying. Like, let's say he's a baseball light player.
Oh, no, the dad's not rooting for his son. That's what I'm asking.
No, no, no, no. No.
Not even a little bit? No. You wouldn't even be rooting a little bit? No, I think that's more of a, when all is said and done, then you can be like, hey, that's cool that you got it.
I'm proud of you, but fuck that. Yeah.
No. All right.
I would try to food poison my son. I found Scorigami.
Yeah, let's hear it. Up to 2017, this website.
The most realistic is 1814. Okay, so that's what we're rooting for.
23-0, 23-1. 18-14.
18-14 is really good.

That's what I got my mind on.

That would be fun.

That would be a lot of fun.

I can't believe that's never happened.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's fun.

Crazy.

That's wild and crazy.

All right, a little college football.

Clemson is officially – is the dynasty over?

Clemson is dead.

Is the dynasty – is Dabo – is the dynasty done?

I think Dabo was a system coach. He can't do it without an elite quarterback.
He can't do it without Deshaun Watson or Trevor Lawrence. That's what it looks like to me.
DJ Ukulele is not the guy. Although he could be the guy.
I'm not going to give up on him. I'm a big, like, I mean, it's very similar to the Kevin White discussion.
I'm a big five-star. If you're a five-star, you're a five-star for life.
Also, he played really well when he was a backup. At Notre Dame, yeah.
He had a good offensive line and good receivers. And also, his dad just kicks ass.
I'm very intimidated by him. He's the best.
I'm still rooting for DJ, but I don't know. Clemson, dynasty over.
Dynasty over. Put a stake in the heart.
I also would love to have someone, maybe a graphic designer, make me a poster of the nine overtimes that we saw in Happy Valley. Because that was one of the worst games slash hilarious games.
That deserved to be a bowl game that we watched. Yeah, Cheez-It Bowl or the Red Box Bowl.
But nine overtimes. The two-point conversion fest where they have to walk back and forth down the other side of the field, including Sikowski, the Illinois quarterback, getting hurt halfway through, breaking his arm.
And listen, it sucks that you break your arm. They attended to him on the field.
So there was like a 10-minute delay. He didn't walk off the field.
It was an absolute train wreck. But yeah, the play-by-play where it's just two-point conversion attempt, fail.
Two-point conversion attempt, fail. Two-point conversion attempt, fail.
Over and over. Oh, beautiful Big Ten football.
Bielma just wanted to get out of there and get some dinner at that point. How hungry would you be on the sidelines? So hungry.
You don't account for that. Even the hungriest man doesn't eat enough hot dogs at halftime to last through all those overtimes.
I don't like this overtime thing. I don't like it.
It's stupid. It's dumb.
And here's the best part, too. The underhit.
The underhit easily. Sitkowski, he's the winning quarterback.
He went eight for nine, 38 yards, and one interception. Winning quarterback.
And then, what's his name? Brandon Peters, I want to say, came in, and because it's two-point conversion attempts, he won the game for Illinois, but his stats don't show up. Yeah, because it doesn't count on the final thing.
So he never exists. He, like, ghost-rode the win.
Yeah, so you could have gotten, like, if you're running back, hypothetically, and you had scored a bunch of two-point conversions in overtime, that could possibly add up to, I don't know, like 16 more yards on your total for the day. Nope, doesn't count.
Doesn't count. Should we have the conversation? Is James Franklin distracted by all the money that he's about to get paid? Well...
Because he hired a new agent, and in my experience experience you don't really hire a new agent if you're happy with how much money you're making funny you ask that pft because he actually came out today and he said future with penn state not a distraction to the team okay good so not here we go okay well he's dismissed i feel dumb for you to ask and you hear what he said no i'm i'm wrong i was he said on Illinois. Oh.
Okay. But that's not who they're playing this way.
Well, he should probably re-focus. They're playing Ohio State.
Yeah, he said we're just focused on Illinois. Yeah, so he's playing Ohio State next weekend.
He's just watching a lot of film. No, he said we're on to Illinois.
Ah. Well, he might think the overtime's still going on.
Exactly. I don't know if you guys heard this, though.
He said he's not distracted. Yeah, he said he's not distracted.
So you know that a college coach, their word is their bond. They'd never lie about anything.
I believe James Franklin. Me too.
Just Penn State coaches. I think it was key.
Believe all college coaches. We should start the movement.
It's actually sad how little trust we have in these guys. Jimbo Fisher, he's happy and never leaving Texas A&M believe all coaches Lane Kiffin Ole Miss for life I do have a quick update on our new color schemes I do feel like we are just heading directly into oh this season is awesome this season is chaos and it's going to be Georgia, Alabama, Oklahoma, and Ohio State somehow.
And Cincinnati's going to get left out. I felt like Cincinnati— They had to beat Navy by more than seven.
Yeah, I actually thought that Navy could have won. Yeah, they had the ball down seven.
And just because if you're playing against one of the service academy teams, that's a game that can go sideways real fast if you haven't been able to prepare right for it because they don't play football. They play Army football or they play Navy football, which is a different brand entirely.
The committee doesn't respect the troops? Who? The committee or whoever picks that? Well, I just think that Cincinnati's in that mode where they're actually like a throwback PCS-style team trying to score style points to get into the playoff. They have to

win, and they have to win

convincingly,

because otherwise they're not going to get

the benefit of the doubt, and they're just going to put in an Oklahoma

who keeps beating

bad teams by a few points, and everyone's like,

well, it's Oklahoma. I'll just say it right now,

I want Michigan to get in there.

I would love to see Harbaugh

in a playoff. Michigan versus Michigan State on Saturday.
I would love to see Harbaugh in a playoff. You get like a 10-year contract.
Shut all the haters up. Unfortunately, this is – Ohio State just has two different seasons.
They either have the one season where they'll lose to a Big Ten, an inferior Big Ten team, and everyone will be like, oh, shit, what's wrong with Ohio State? Or if they lose early enough, everyone doubts them, and then they just kick the shit out of everyone else. Like the year they lost to Virginia Tech, I think they won the national championship.
They just – you can count. Like we had a discussion.
What was the discussion? Four losses? Four losses, yeah. Ohio State is just crushing people now.
Are you feeling like maybe there's a chance? No. I saw some stat.
It was like 20 out of the last. We needed Indiana to fucking have a pulse.
Yeah. It was something like 20 out of the last 22 possessions Ohio State scored.
It's crazy. They're buzz-songing people.
They're going to kill Penn State, and they're going to keep rolling, and they're going to kill Michigan State, and they're going to kill Michigan. They might lose to Penn State.
Oh. Because James Franklin is so focused? I mean, every game for me in this bet is a must-lose for Ohio State.
What do you have to get if they don't? I forget. I wasn't going to watch football.
No, I wasn't going to watch football. For a month.
If-plus losses. Yeah.
For the entire month. Yours was something along the lines of 10 bucks.
Yeah, I think it was the cat one. It was getting a cat, right? Do you remember, Billy? Getting a cat.
I think it was something worse. Yeah, worse than a cat? Getting two cats.
Yeah. Getting two house cats.
One named Brickles and the other named Brickles and Pickles.

I think I said I also wouldn't watch Sunday football and come in.

Oh, no.

Wait, your punishment was he'd take a vacation?

He wouldn't work on Sunday.

I mean, it wasn't my punishment.

You said it to me.

All right.

Somebody please fact check us on this one because we forget what Hank's into the bargain yes and also someone make me a poster of the uh two-point conversion off in happy valley because it was fantastic um all right anything else from college football before we move on to hot seat cool throne this is this is a last week was just bad all around for football this week we're we're back on track i mean oklahoma they were fixing to lose that game. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
They keep beating teams by not a big margin, but because they're Oklahoma, everyone will be like, yeah, they're really, really good. The debate I'm addicted to having already is, is Caleb Williams a Heisman candidate? Even though he's played, what, three games now? Two and a half games? Three games.
Two and a half. Two and a half games right now.
Texas maybe counts as a real full game. The thing is, yeah, that half had enough.
That had enough football for a full game. The play that he had was a Heisman signature moment.
Yes, it was. But it was against Kansas.
But it still was. I mean, it was against Kansas and also an entirely filled stadium of season ticket holders.
Tough place to play. Passionate fans.
Yes. But I like having having the debate of like, is this guy that just started playing? Could he be? Hypothetically, if one guy started in like the SEC championship game that hadn't played all year and threw for nine touchdowns, could that guy be a Heisman candidate? Why not? That's a great Heisman moment.
Throw him in the car. At least get him an invite to New York.
Get him in the Heisman house. Yes.
Yes. Have him bunk with Tebow.
Also, I think Wisconsin's going to win the Big Ten West, and people are going to be real mad because they're not good. Is that still actually a possibility? Oh, yeah.
If they went out, they controlled their own destiny. For some reason, I thought that Wisconsin, the season was sunk.
No. They can be in Indianapolis.
If they beat Iowa, there's a pretty good chance because the rest of their schedule, they should be. That would be the most Wisconsin season ever.
Also, our good friend Tom Fernelli had a stat that Wisconsin over half of their points given up have been directly related to a turnover. So that's all they do.
They just turn the ball over and give up points. Otherwise, their defense is like the greatest in the world.
Just got to limit those turnovers. Yeah, which is impossible because they like to turn the ball over.
Jameis did a pretty good job. That's true.
Yeah, no, it's going to get people real mad if Wisconsin plays Ohio State in the Big Ten Championship. I'm declaring it.
I want Georgia, Cincinnati, Alabama. Oregon.
Michigan. Oh, okay, Michigan.
That's good colors. All right.
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My hot seat's Ed Asner. Dead as fuck.
He is dead. Yeah, RIP.
So we were wrong. Big dead.
Big rip Ed. Super dead.
You dead bitch. Dead Ed.
Yeah. How long has he been dead for? Like six months.
Whoa. Okay.

Body's not even cold.

Damn.

Dead.

Dead as fuck.

Do you know what?

What was Ed Asner famous for again?

Being dead.

I mean, I remember.

On this show? No, he was famous for being alive.

No, on this show, most famous for being dead.

That's a fact.

He was the dude in Up.

What?

The old guy?

Yeah, he voiced the guy in Up. Oh, okay.
That actually sad now. I thought that was Joe Pop.
Yeah. Okay.
That's sad. My cool throne is the NFL being pieces of shit and unbiased, or no, biased and just like ignoring cheating.
I've talked about my problems with the Manicast and how every time I go on, I get triggered, whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yesterday, I was watching the Celtics.
Celtics game ended. I flipped over to the Manning cast on TV1.
I was like, let's tune into the boys. Saw some tweets.
I missed the birdie part, but people said it was good. Quite literally, when I turned on the TV, Peyton Manning starts going off this rant about how the ball boys in Indianapolis use this special sauce.

And they did all these tricks of the trade and did all this shit with the ball.

And I'm sitting there.

I'm like, oh, my God.

I can't believe you just admitted to these crimes.

Twitter's going to be going crazy.

There's going to be an investigation tomorrow.

And it's just crickets.

Yeah.

Nothing.

That part was ridiculous.

It was insane.

I literally lived off the channel. I couldn't.
It was infuriating. It was infuriating.
I love this. It was crazy because they just had Tom Brady on.
And he was. I thought Tom Brady was great, by the way, on the Manning cast.
He's always. It's crazy to watch him discussing football as it happens.
That was a great broadcast. But then they get him off, and the very next segment, Peyton Manning is literally saying, yeah, I had these three guys.
I actually enacted the rule change that let me doctor my own balls the way that I like to so that the quarterbacks could be better. I led a group of quarterbacks to do a petition to Roger Goodell saying we should be allowed to prepare our own balls.
So we would sand them down.

We had a special sauce that was made up that we'd rub them with.

We used to get a belt sander on them sometimes.

He was just openly talking about it.

My big problem, though, was why not have that conversation?

If you're going to have it, have it when Brady is on the air with him.

I'm sure Tom Brady would have just went off and been like, this is absolute bullshit that

the NFL did this $7 trillion investigation and suspended me for four games. Yep.
And Payton was just like, yeah, we had our special sauce every game. I just love the idea of you just getting so angry, turn it off, stomping them out of your house.
I love a good broadcast. We're in the business.
I like to see what people are talking about. If people are like, this is good, I'll check it out.
And then every time, it's like, I turn on. They're like, oh, let's talk about the helmet catch.
Let's talk about how we cheated so much with these balls, and no one gives a fuck because I'm Peyton Manning. You know what would help calm you down in those moments? What? Brickles and Pickles.
Two cats that you can... Putsies you can...
Brickles and Pickles. Yeah, I have the bet.
Oh, you do? Okay. It's Prickles and Pickles.
Prickles and Pickles. You had two kittens that you could pet every time you got upset.
You listened to it? Unfortunately, from what I had, it had nothing to do with the cat. I want one of the cats to be like a little surly.
You can cuddle up with one of them, but the other kind of hates you. So if the Buckeyes lose four games, PFD can't watch NFL football for the entire month of September next season.
And if they lose less than,

Hank can't watch

the entirety of week one

of NFL next season.

Oh, great.

Yeah, this is not

a punishment.

Let's go.

That's also a big time

future year.

I haven't listened

to the entire segment,

but that's what I have so far.

That's not a punishment to Hank.

He's going to go golf.

I'm a football guy.

He's going to go golf.

I'm a football guy

through and through.

Damn. Yeah, actually.
You can't watch the Patriots, though. Yeah.
He's still to go golf. I'm a football guy.
He's going to go golf. I'm a football guy through and through.
Damn. Yeah, actually.
You can't watch the Patriots, though. Yeah.
He's still going to golf. Damn.
One other thing about the Manning cast last night. Drew Brees was on there for a little bit.
They mentioned you guys briefly. The Barstool guys keep chirping my shirt.
Yeah, yeah. Very briefly.
But Drew Brees went on. And I don't know if you happened to notice this, but he said, hey, I got some people that would like to say hi to you guys on the broadcast.
And then he goes, say hi to my boys. And he brought his two boys on next to him.
And he's like, a special treat. Let them stay up past their bedtime so they can say hi to the Mannings.
Say hi, boys. And then after the boys say hi, his poor daughter reaches her head in from off frame.
Drew Brees was making his daughter stand off frame while his sons were on frame, and she goes, hi, and then she immediately gets moved out of the way. This son of a bitch, I think he's trolling us now with this.
Yeah, I can't tell if this is a joke at this when it first happened it was maybe just super old school when it's just daughters don't exist yeah it was just like guy time boys watching football in the man cave but when it first happened you know and there were all the there was certain people that are just big care lords out there that are like wow he didn't throw a pass to his daughter when he was passing to his sons yeah they're reaching for stuff there's enough evidence out there that drew breeze might hate his daughter i'm just saying no for sure i'm just saying i've seen enough at this point it's enough to convene a grand jury yeah i'm not convicting him yet but we're investigating um that's funny because i just looked for uh i looked drew breeze daughter to try to find it and the top tweet is just some guy named Matt Lewis who says something something Drew Brees hates his daughter PFT commenter somebody tag me in that no but if you watch the video this guy's just predicting the show fuck if you watch the video it is exactly what I said like she's off camera and he, and he's like, say hi to the boys. That's crazy.
Yeah. Your hot seat, Cooltron, PFT.
My hot seat is Pete Carroll. This is kind of a little hot seat, because I think that Pete Carroll might be coaching for his job right now.
I think so, too. How can you coach for your job with a backup? Well, his job is a coach.
Okay. Yeah, but no, that's a good question, though, Hank.
I think in most circumstances, be fair to be like he's managing the best he can given the circumstances. But I think what the absence of Russell Wilson has shown is that Pete Carroll, without an elite quarterback, a guy that he kind of lucked into when he drafted in the third round, every other team passed on Russell Wilson twice, if not three times.
Russell Wilson has been doing a lot to keep Pete Carroll looking like a great coach.

And Pete Carroll is a good motivator.

I think he's probably a great recruiter because he can buy people houses.

That's sweet.

But I don't think he's a great X's and O's guy.

I don't think he's a good decision maker.

I don't think he's ever been.

I think he's been a good manager of talent.

He's a prime candidate for a guy who gets fired because it was just like hey it's time to move on you know what i mean like it's it's i was thinking like lovey smith when he got fired it was i think he went 10 and 6 that year it's like all right well enough time has passed like time to move on yep you know it's it's not that he's doing a bad job it's just that you've been doing the same thing for a very long time, and if it doesn't ever progress, then it's time to move on. What coach wins with bad quarterbacks? There have been a couple coaches.
I mean, the Washington football team got to the playoffs last year. So did the Bears.
Although, I think Mitch might be better than Holmes. I think he might be, too.
And Deshaun Watson. Let's flip it and reverse it.itch trubisky took a matt nagy coach team to the playoffs twice yeah that's a that's a great point also matt nagy and ryan pace did not draft someone who's been accused of 22 counts of sexual assault that's true so good job bears also a fact billy's been giggling over there for a long time what do you got i have no idea what have no idea what's going on, and I'm slightly disturbed.
You getting goofy? You getting goofy on our ass? A little goofy. Yeah.
Nothing pertaining to anything. Okay, cool.
Just using your imagination. All right, cool throne? My cool throne is Six Flags.
And just being thrifty in general, there was an article that came out yesterday. It was in Mel Magazine about a millennial who's trying to avoid spending a lot of money on eating out for lunch, eating out for dinners.
This person named Dylan said that he talked to one of his coworkers, and she said that she was spending $1,500 a month on eating food, like going out to restaurants. It seems like a lot for somebody right out of college.
But this guy, Dylan, he found a life hack, and he realized that if you can buy a season pass to Six Flags,

actually... like going out to restaurants.
It seems like a lot for somebody right out of college. But this guy, Dylan, he found a life hack, and he realized that if you can buy a season pass to Six Flags, add on the meal charge, you get unlimited food for $150.
So this guy goes twice a day every day to Six Flags. That's awesome.
To eat their food and doesn't spend any extra money on it. That's like a dining hall.
Yes, it's like college dining dining hall except you've got roller coasters around if you want to ride them while you're there that's so sick it wouldn't that be an awesome lunch break from your office job is just go to six flags real quick yes get a turkey leg and like ride a roller coaster and come back to the office that is so sick yeah so that's i think that's kind of a genius move yes absolutely genius. Alright, my hot seat is me because I owe Bubba some shoes.
So he hit

the alternate under on Sunday, under 47 for the Chiefs and the Titans. I'm buying you the shoes.
You picked them out. I will buy them.
Thank you. I didn't mention it.
I forgot it on Sunday. I did too, and I had like a million people tweet at me like Big.
Big Cat doesn't pay up on his bets. I mean, there's something like he does every time.
Yeah. And I literally just forgot to.
Yeah. We all forgot.
So. So thank you again.
Not a scumbag. I bought the shoes.
Billy, you're just you're cheesing. There's something going on in that mind.
Liam should get Yeezys. Let's really go for it.
Oh, go all the way for it. No,

he actually respected it. I think they're like

$250. Perfect.

That's a good amount. Yeah, also people

were like sending me getting like $10,000

shoes. Why would you do that? Yeah, right.

Oh, Hank would. He just

looked at me like, yeah, I'd do that.

Also, hot seat Gus Johnson,

not the announcer Gus

Johnson, but I thought for a second that Gus Johnson

Was getting cancelled

Did you guys see that?

I saw his name trending

Yeah it's a streamer named Gus Johnson

I didn't know there was a guy

I read this whole apology

I thought it was from the announcer Gus Johnson

And then I realized halfway through that it wasn't

What did he do?

I think he did something bad

He was like abusive to his girlfriend

Yeah one of the things is His wife was in the hospital and he went out to get beers what his friends okay yeah um stuff like that but that's not why he was getting canceled was it i think she was like he told her that he'd break up with her it's like really if she gave birth either way Gus Johnson, I was like, what the hell's going on here? And then my

cool throw is the Bulls because the Bulls are back. Hank,

you getting nervous?

Bulls are good. For what?

Winning. They're the last undefeated team

in the East. They are good.
I bet them last night

Henry Hoops. There we go.
Oh.

Is that a new thing? Yeah. What does Henry Hoops got

tonight? Aha. The Sixers.

As crazy as it sounds. Okay.

They're deadly hang. And the Lakers, honestly.
whoa whoa okay um yeah gus johnson the other gus johnson i don't i still don't really know who it is but he got canceled uh gus danger johnson gus buckins he's a twitch streamer i don't have you have anything else for us on that guy billy You don't know anything else? Pretty sure he just was abusive to his girlfriend. Okay.
Disavow. Disavow.
All Gus Johnsons. I like the other Gus Johnson.
Not in football. My hot seat are suits.
Coaches, done with them. What? End of an era.
What? NBA's already done it. I think college is going to do the same thing.
Good. It's crazy.
It was always crazy they had to wear a suit. Let them win.
Yeah, I still think MLB Vantage is wearing a uniform is crazier. No, I like that, though.
No, it's great. It is crazy, but I love it.
I love seeing like a fat 65-year-old run out there in cleats and a belt. So I think that's it.
I feel like there's some old-school guys who will still wear a suit. They might, yeah.
Like Rick Pitino's gonna wear a suit. Jay Wright.
Jay Cow. Jay Wright loves his suits.
Jay Wright looked very casual competitive. Competitive casual.
Competitive casual when he was wearing the warm-up top. He was like a quarter-zip guy.
I'd be disappointed if I tuned into Villanova game and Jay Wright was not wearing a suit. We'll see.
Two weeks away. My cool throne are the Florida Panthers.
You guys have crapped on them a lot over the years on this podcast, but they're the best team in the NHL right now. I think Joel Cornville.
Yeah, 6-0. You're probably the hometown team.
The only person that's noticed that we've crapped on the Florida Panthers a lot. Yeah, I don't think we have.
I remember you guys had a huge segment on them. Oh, it was, what's the least consequential team in modern sports? And I think that's not crapping on them.
That's just stating facts. I think it's the Panthers, the Coyotes, and the Wizards.
Coyotes have those throwback jerseys, though, that are sick. That makes them have something.
The Yotes. And they also have Paul Bissonette.
Yeah. Gretzky coach there.
Organization. Yeah.
Yeah. So, yeah, number one Panthers.
Shout out to Tallgrass Mills. They play right next to them all.
Sacramento Kings. Yeah, love that.
Yeah. Love that.
That's 6-0. All right, Billy, let's finally get why you're cheesing.
I've just been smiling. I have no idea why you're saying that.
You just love life? Yeah. Can't believe it is your life smiling through it all? Yeah.
My hot seat is a certain former Ole Miss quarterback who signed to the Toronto Argos in the CFL. Eli Manning.
But if Plumlee. If he didn't unblock one of his

favorite fans,

he would be getting a

shout out on this podcast.

We're not going to say his name.

I'm unblocked.

My other hot seat is X Factor

from

Kansas City Chiefs because he's

realizing that he can't get into the

game this Monday and he's trying to find ways around it, but everyone's shutting him down. Dress up like an old woman.
He just figured this out. Actually, that's actually very relatable to like...
Yeah, he's like, I can't get in as X Factor. He thought he could get in as not X Factor.
Oh, he thought he could get in as himself. He thought X Factor was kicked out, but Rodney or whatever his name is.
What's his name? Ty. Ty.
He's like, I can just go in as Ty. And then they contacted him and said, no, Ty cannot come in.
That's a great point. I kind of agree with him on that.
My other hot seat was James Franklin. And then my cool throne is Russians.
A Russian boxer, Ilya Medvedev, TKO'd a grizzly bear who attacked him in his fishing group and killed his friend. It wasn't a sanctioned fight? I don't think it's a TKO.
If you kill a friend, if it's not a sanctioned fight. If it's a bear attack, was there a referee that counted him out? But also, wait.
No, he's leaving out the most important part is the bear killed someone. The bear killed someone, then he was able to fend off the bear.
No, he killed the bear. No, he TKO.
It's not a TKO. That's a KO.
It's a KO. That's an LKO.
But the bear won. The bear won.
No, if you're dead, he's not knocked out. He just can't continue the fight.
The bear won the undercard.'s a light decisively just like just absolute demolishing but then the russian fighter won by knockout no he he fought the bear so it could not continue with his hands with his hands and he shot him a couple okay there it is there but he shot him killed a guy and then they shot the bear no the bear he they shot bear several times But then the bear came Knocked the rifle out of his hands And he hit the bear several times But the bear had already been shot But then knocked out the bear It's insane Technically or literally But the thing is his third friend Was the one who recounted this whole thing So Not the first friend he's dead first friend's dead right so bias judge per usual yeah classic boxing yeah okay good hot sequel thrown all right let's uh get to our interviews we've got a great interview with coach dick vermil and then we have mike florio after that and then we'll get to guys on chicks you know that one sandwich you always crave the one that just hits every single single time? For me, it's a simple yet perfect combination. Boar's Head Oven Gold Turkey.
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Head to your local Boar's Head deli and experience the craftsmanship behind every bite. Okay, we now welcome on a very special guest.
It is a future Hall of Famer, I'm going to say it, Coach Dick Vermeule. He coached in the a Super Bowl coach for three different NFL teams uh coach let's start with that because you are a finalist for the NFL hall of fame this upcoming year have you thought about what it would mean to you and maybe getting that knock on your door and have you already pre-cried about it because that will be an emotional moment well you know i thought about it a lot since i got the phone call a month and a half or so ago actually it was a late august i got the call while i was in the airport landing but to go to the napa valley yeah i got the call it was uh it startled me it really did and in a positive way you know i'm very very grateful for this opportunity and the position they put me in through the voting for the coaches.
And I'm sure the other coaches that didn't make it this year will make it next year because I know who they are. And they are certainly as deserving as I am, maybe just not as old.
So the age, I think, helped me a little bit. But I'm very appreciative of this opportunity.
Looking forward to it. I think we need to discuss more how you are a trailblazer.

I think getting the word out there about how you were actually the first special teams coach

in the history of the NFL, right?

The first full-time special teams coach?

Yeah.

1969, George Allen hired me.

I was an assistant coach running the offense at Stanford University,

coaching Jimmy Plunkett at that time.

Yeah.

I mean, there are three phases to the game, right?

We got 33 starters on each team. I mean, there's some overlap there, but special teams is important.
You know that. So when you started being the first full-time special teams coach, what was your job? Why had there not been a full-time special teams guy before you? Well, at that time, the entire NFL coaching staff, they were all made up of six assistants and one head football coach.
And they divided the special team responsibilities up amongst the staff. And it got a late preparation day, usually Friday and Saturday, to prepare for the special teams that are going to take place on Sunday.
And George Allen, the year before, had lost a playoff game due to a kickoff return for a touchdown. And during the offseason, he and his staff went through and evaluated every kickoff coverage intensely.
And they found out the two guys that missed the tackle hadn't made a tackle all year, but no one was following it that closely. So he said, you know, I need to hire somebody that evaluate the performance of my special teams every Monday after Sunday's game.
So I went to the ownership and got permission to hire a special teams coach. He called a friend of his, Peyton Jordan, head track coach at Stanford University, and asked him if he knew anybody that might be a special teams type coach that could lead guys in all these variations because you get everybody on special teams in your meetings.
And Peyton Jordan recommended me. And I was coaching offense at the time, quarterbacks at Stanford.
And I interviewed for the job and he gave it to me. So thanks to Peyton Jordan and then George Allen being, you know, you know, a visionary really, you know, he started the nickel, he started the dime defenses and those kinds of things.
And he started special teams. Yeah.
I was there one year and was offered the offensive coordinator job at UCLA and I took it. And then Marv Levy took my job, God bless him, a great man to this day.
Yeah. So the story.
And, you know, I was very thankful also. I had the advantage of Howard Snellenberger being on the Ram staff at that time.
And Howard having coached in Alabama under Bear Bryant where kicking game was really critical in a big phase of their preparation every week. He helped me gain some knowledge in regard to the special teams more so than I would have just on my own.
Yes, I coached special teams myself at high school and junior college and that kind of thing. But in college, I didn't.
I was coaching offense. So Howard Snellenberger was my go-to guy at that time.
You mentioned high school and junior college. I love about your career.
You are a football guy through and through. You have the distinction of being named coach of the year in high school, junior college, college, and at the professional level.
So you have done it all. Your career path is incredible how you basically went from the smallest to the largest in terms of the football world.

My question, though, is you don't see a lot of guys like you who coach the Eagles,

you go to the Super Bowl, you lose the Super Bowl,

then you walked away from coaching for a very long time.

What happened that made you say, hey, I want to take a step back from coaching

and maybe do something else?

You were in media. Well, guys, I was guilty of allowing a passion to become an obsession.
And I got so I couldn't turn the game off, especially so during the season. And I found myself in a hole because I always blamed myself for what went wrong Sunday.
And it really negatively influenced my preparation for the next game because I would evaluate the films and my decisions on Monday for why we lost yesterday. And I'd blame it all on me.
And I kept thinking about that all week, about what I should have done last week. And it negatively influenced my preparation for what I should do this week.
And then all of a sudden, I'd be Friday to play this next game. And I'd be looking at film.
At that time, it was film and say, geez, why didn't I see this Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday? It's too late to install what I'm seeing now. And I felt I was in a spiral downhill in terms of being the leader and running my own offense as I did, coaching my own quarter and that kind of stuff and so you know I just I decided to take a year off and get away from it and in doing so I was offered a job with CBS to broadcast football games and I went from making $75,000 a year to $150,000 a year working 16 weekends and then doing a few college bowl games.
So it was stealing for a living in comparison. And I enjoyed it.
It kept me close to the game. But I still always thought I'd go back into coaching.
And I'm not bragging when I say this, but 13 of the 14 years I was out, I had somebody contact me. That's crazy.
The finest job I was ever offered was offered on the phone in about 1986 or 7.

And I turned it down because I was a little afraid I would end up in the same hole I was in.

But thank heavens for the Rams and John Shaw and Georgia Frontier and Jay Zygman of the Rams.

Every time that job had been opened, I had been contacted and asked if I was interested

because I had worked for Georgia as an assistant coach. I had worked there and she knew me and I

think she had confidence in me and she felt comfortable with me. They offered me the job

and I decided if I don't go back now, I'll never go back. I'll be too old.
So I went back.

What was the job in 1986 that you were offered? The finest job? Well, it was actually Tampa Bay Buccaneers. It was Mr.
What's his name? Culverhouse. He called me up and he said, coach, I understand you're a candidate for the Atlanta Falcon job.
But I said, that's just a strong rumor.

I asked him to give me a week to think about it, and I'd get back.

And he said, well, it's out there.

You're going to go there.

And I said, well, that's not true.

And he said, you know something, coach?

I've made more money in my life than I could spend in two lifetimes, and I'm offering you the Tampa Bay job.

You can write your own contract.

That's exactly what he said to me.

Guys, you know, I haven't told many.

I don't know if I've ever told anybody I'm interviewing that story.

And I was visiting my dad who was dying of pancreatic cancer at the time in the Napa Valley.

And I sat down and I said, Dad, you can't believe just what happened.

I said, Mr. Culverhouse from Tampa Bay called me and offered me the head coaching job and said I could write my own contract and my dad looked at me and he wasn't very good health he says Dick do you need the aggravation I said no he said then you better not take it wow that's that's incredible because you don't hear it very often with football coaches I think we on this show we talk often about how football coaches have to have a little bit of a screw loose to have that obsession.
And you're the rare case where you knew the screw was loose. And you're like, I got to take a step back and I got to find some balance in my life.
Well, I'll tell you this. In broadcasting in the NFL, I visited a lot of head coaches.
And I won't give you their names, but I sat behind closed doors with a few of them. Their screw was almost as loose as mine.
Yeah. Yeah.
You know, sleeping in the office during the week, not going home at all. It does become an obsession.
I think that a lot of the most successful coaches right now in the NFL, to a certain degree, have that obsession that drives them to be excellent. But at what cost,? They probably don't have the same balance in their life that you found out was important to you.
Yeah, but they have over 20 assistant coaches today. Yeah, true.
True. That's true.
So I'm looking at the Tampa Bay Buccaneers record in 1985, 1986. There were 2-14 in 85, 2-14 in 86, 4-11 in 87.
I'm just curious, why did that become the most attractive coaching offer that you could ever get in your life? Because that's not the same Buccaneers that we have today. Well, I didn't call them.
They called me. And Mr.
Culverhouse had a very good relationship with Leonard Toast, my owner at the Eagles. And I'm sure that Leonard was positive about my performance with him as a head coach and my great relationship I had with him as coach owner.
And I think Hugh Culverhouse appreciated that. And he was desperate.
He was desperate. So he called me and I talked to other owners too, but I never had anybody say, you can write your own contract.
I had great respect for him as a man anyway, but my dad finalized it for me. I wasn't ready for the aggravation.
Like you said, if you're not ready for it, then don't do it. Yeah.
So you decide to come back. You end up coaching St.
Louis, the greatest show on turf. of started um that that entire era of football for the st louis rams you get to the super bowl uh the last play of the game the titans they reach out at the one yard line they come about a yard and a half short but when you were when i was watching on tv it looked like maybe his his knees were still off the turf while he was reaching out from your point of view on sidelines, can you walk us through what you saw in that last play? Well, you know, you have the worst seat in the house, especially when the end zone here is 50 yards to your left, and there's a whole crowd of pile and offensive people in front, blocking your vision.
So I didn't really see. I turned to look at the officials coming in from the sideline, and I was waiting for them to either cross their arms or go like that.
I had no idea what they happened, and when I saw them go like that, then I said, you know, that's it. We are world champions, you know, and if it was that close, and I know I've talked to Jeff, you know, as a fine coach in his own right, he would have probably gone for two if he had made it, and we may not have been able to stop him because they had been pounding on us pretty good.
They wore us down in that second half. Yeah, yeah.
So here I am sitting as a Super Bowl winning coach. But, you know, for all these things, because I've been there and lost, you know, it takes the same thing to get there and lose.
It does to get there and win. You know, unlike the NBA, unlike major baseball, it's not the best of seven.
You know, it's the best of one. You don't play that well that day, you're not the world champion.
But you're still a hell of a football team, and your organization did everything everybody else did to get there. So I have great admiration for both teams and just as much for the team that lost.
Yeah, and that season in particular, obviously you start the season, Trent Green, he gets hurt in the preseason. You go to Kurt Warner.
Was there a point in time in that season where you're like, oh man, this guy, this is something because he's a backup relatively unknown guy who goes on to a Hall of Fame career, lights the league on fire. Was there a particular moment, maybe even in practice,

where you're like, oh boy, like this is, this guy,

this isn't just a regular backup, this is the guy.

Well, the year before when he was our third quarterback

running the scout team offense, there were a number of times

I walked off the field and said to myself,

either this kid can play or my defense is horse manure, okay?

You know, and I would talk about it,

but there was a specific time and it's in the Ram highlight film. I'm standing next to Jim Hannafin on the sideline on the 50 yard line.
God bless Jim Hannafin, uh, where I had 21 to nothing. He had thrown three touchdown passes versus the 49ers, like the fifth game of the season that had beaten us 17 times in a row.

And I turned to Jim and I said,

Jim, this kid can play. That's exactly it.
But thanks to Mike Martz and my offensive staff, they did a beautiful job of taking truly a gifted offensive team. There's five guys in that that'll end up in the Hall of Fame.
Four of them are already in, and Torrey will be next okay so i mean it was a gifted offense but it took a guy like mike martz and al sauners and hannathan and john masco and all these guys of wilbert montgomery to put it in that greatest show and turf we had built the foundation for that offense in the first year and second year in losing but no one recognized it but the the fundamental approach we took to practice remember in those days guys there was no limit on how long you could stay on practice yeah there was no limit on how many contact practices or how many times you could wear the pads that team never took the pads off for two years in the on the practice field yeah so it was built that way and then god love mike. He came in.
I gave him the responsibility and backed him in every way I could. Combined with the rest of those guys, they put it together.
They took advantage. And Kirk Warner, I knew he could play.
I did not know he could play that well. Nobody did.
You also spotted the movie Invincible. I'm sure a lot of people have seen that guy Vincent.
How do you say his last name? Is it Papali? It's Papali. Now, I'll tell you guys.
You spotted him. I have seen Kurt Warner's new movie by Lionsgate.
In fact, the whole crew was here yesterday and interviewed me about it. We saw it in the Napa Valley.
They brought it up in Southern California and showed it to me and my guests in a private viewing. It is outstanding.
An outstanding football sports movie. Really well done.
I have a question about Al Saunders real quick. You mentioned his name.
Was his playbook actually 700 pages? That seems like a lot of pages. Yeah.
It was very, very, very, very thick. I've got it in there.
I can hardly lift it. Okay, yeah, it's very heavy.
And, you know, Mike Martz was not a big book guy. He really didn't like to put what he was thinking on paper.
And I made him do it. I said, I want an offensive notebook.
And it was well done and condensed. Al put everything on paper.
and just contrasting philosophies, and they're both, you know, Al Saunders did a great job coordinating my offense, the same offense at the Rams that we took with us to Kansas City, and then we emphasized the running game a little more because we had Hall of Fame left tackle, Hall of Fame right guard, Hall of Fame tight end, and now I want to for the Hall fame at left guard and all pro at center other than that why not run the football football yeah yeah so um we talked about kurt warner i want to throw another name out there because i'm always fascinated about interactions with with people before they become legends you know kurt warner everyone knows him as a legend but they don't really remember him as a backup quarterback. The other one, you had a very early interaction.
I think when you were playing, he was a graduate assistant, Bill Walsh, who, you know, revolutionized football and is a Hall of Famer and an unbelievable coach. You knew him before all of that.
Was he, is that a guy where, like, when you first met him, you're like, oh, something's different about him. him like he sees this whole thing differently than everyone else i can tell you a ton of stories about bill i was a player at san sate my first year he was a graduate assistant and he was writing his master's degree okay and then he went became a head coach at washington high school in fremont California.
I was going to do my student teaching under him when I got out and got my master's. What happened, he was hired by Marv Levy to go to Cal.
So I went someplace else. I went to another high school.
And then we maintained a relationship. Our wives became good friends, and Bill and I became good friends.
Then he's coaching at Stanford and he recommends me to John Ralston. I'm a junior college coach at Napa College now head coach.
And he recommended me to John Ralston and Ralston hired me as a freshman coach. I was a freshman coach one year.
Then the next year I was the quarterback running back coach at Stanford with Jim Plumkin Gene Washington those guys so we just built that relationship and then I became a head coach before he did and he was the offensive coordinator for Paul Brown at the Cincinnati Bengals and we maintained a great relationship but just we became very close friends and in fact the wine business I'm in Bill would have been in it with me if he hadn't passed prematurely. Yeah.
So so I learned a lot from him. Yeah.
And he's you know, he's a fascinating figure in the history of football. When he was, you know, you know, implementing his offense and his philosophies, was there was there a belief like, oh, this guy's crazy.
Like, what is he talking about? You know, you know this is different than what we've done you know using the passing game is almost a running game um how how was it like perceived back then before it became something that everyone does now in today's nfl very very good question good question initially you know sid gilman was working with me neither one of us liked some of the basic concepts. You know, we were vertical stretch.
Right. Pass offense.
Bill, yes, vertical stretch. But he liked horizontal stuff.
You know, a wide receiver here won one yard across the line of scrimmage over to the other sideline and throwing the ball on the dead run and these kinds of things. He brought all that.
We call them zero routes. He brought all that stuff into the game.
And at first, I can remember Sid saying, God, I don't like that. I mean, how are you going to make any yards of that? But it, it, high percentage completion to a receiver running full speed.
If it's zone, he runs through the zone. Sometimes you would settle him down.
If it's man, the guy's chasing him across the field. If it's man, everybody else is tied up with a wide receiver.
He catches the ball running room. So I think Bill did those kind of things.
Bill had great ability to look at film in those days and define exactly the best ways to attack the scheme that he's going to play this Sunday. And I'll tell you this, he could take almost any quarterback and play well with the guy.
Now, he's not a Hall of Famer like Montana or Young, but I remember the weekend I'm in broadcasting. I go to a 49er game.
I sit with Bill the night before the game and we're BSing and all that kind of stuff. And he tells me he's going to play this kid.
It was just cut from the San Diego Chargers because his quarterbacks were hurt couldn't play and uh god excuse me his dad ran for that was a politician excuse me uh nfl quarterback from buffalo come on guys a politician we'll help you hold on uh bradley no uh said he was centered buffalo buffalo quarterback. Great player.
Flutie. Jack Kemp.
Jack Kemp. There we go.
His son. His son.
God bless him. He starts the game and throws for over 300 and something yards.
He's been with the 49ers for three weeks. You know, Bill had a magic touch with quarterbacks, and he knew what they looked like.

He knew what they looked like, and he knew what he wanted,

and he could teach them to do what he wanted them to do.

Yeah, that's fantastic because it's the history of the game

when you start talking about that and the people who came along

and figured out a new way to look at things.

Even when we talk about defense and offensive football,

like how guys can look at something.

We've done it one way for the entire history,

in the look at things you know even we talk about defense and and offensive football like how how guys can look at something we've done it one way the whole you know for the for the entire history and be like no let's do it this way you know whether it be up tempo west coast offense 46 defense anything like that yeah no question you know when i worked with bill as an assistant coach at sanford he was a secondary coach that's crazy and you know we had a coaching staff, and we had a small coaching office. We're all together working on game plans on Monday for the next game.
And Bill would give his thoughts offensively. And remember, Bill was left-handed.
So he would start writing things that he thought might be good offensively. Now, he's a defensive coach, and he'd be moving left to right and talking over his right shoulder.
John Ralston, the head coach, would be walking behind him and racing it. See? He couldn't see it.
And it's like, it's a great story. He couldn't help himself.
Yeah. He could not help himself.
And it's a great story because it's Bill Walsh. Like, if Bill Walsh wants to give you a tip on your offense, you listen.
It's Bill Walsh. Who knows what was a race coach? But, like, at the coach.
At that time, he was just Bill Walsh. Yeah.
It's probably becoming the legend of Bill Walsh. It's smart to have a guy that, you know, he knows, if he knows the secondary really well, he also probably knows how to exploit it.
You know, think like, what's my worst nightmare? What would take advantage of this defense that I'm putting into place? That's probably a really great way to learn about something that you want to end up attacking later on in life well you know he always said he learned a lot from paul brown as well you know bill walsh was one of the first guys that really started reducing the amount of contact during the week in full pads on a practice field huh he was one of the first guys to do that why paul brown paul Paul Brown's influence on him. But anyway, and I was, to tell you a story I haven't told many people in regard to Bill Walsh, I'm broadcasting a Cincinnati bagel game and Bill Walsh is no longer there.
Bill Johnson's the head coach. And I asked Paul, standing on the sideline, I'm watching a Friday practice, and I said, Mr.
Brown, I said, you knowers are a really great friend of mine, one of my closest friends. Why didn't you give him the head coaching job? And he said, simply, I knew he was a great football coach.
He said, I just didn't know if he could handle the highs and lows of winning, because sometimes you're going to lose more games than you win, and I didn't know if Bill could handle it. And he didn't question his ability to be a football coach.
And if you know Bill closely, there was a lot to this in Bill. Most people didn't see that.
The close friends saw it. So fast forward to after you win a Super Bowl with St.
Louis, you decide to walk away from the game again. At a time when it looked like the offense was poised to go on you know a multi-year run they were you left them in a better place than you found them what was the reason for you walking away the second time and do you regret not staying around at that job for another couple years and trying to get another couple Super Bowls you know I wish I had stayed but I don't I don't actually regret it I did what I thought was right right.
I had three kids, 11 grandkids, and I was missing a lot of the important part of a person's family life, me living in St. Louis.
I never sold my 100 acres of ground where I'm talking to you from right now in Chester County. It was there, and my kids were utilizing it, hunting on the property and all that kind of stuff.
And, you know, and starting to have their own families and that kind of stuff. And I was missing a lot.
Plus, I also recognized it was an opportunity to go out of coaching on top. You know, many of your great coaches never got to go out on top.
You know, Tom Landry didn't go out on top. There was a lot of people that didn't get to finish their career as world champions and i i have a couple coach of the year trophies back here and there's names on it they got fired after they won coach of the year you guys know that's what was i so i i felt it was an opportunity to be a world champion the rest of my life yeah and in may of following that decision i'm'm handing out the Super Bowl rings at a beautiful banquet that Georgia Frontier, John Shaw and Jay Zegman put on in St.
Louis. And I'm saying to myself, what the hell did I do? I worked my butt off for three years, helped build this football team, put the staff together, built the culture within the community there.
And I'm not a part of it anymore. And I felt a little empty after that.
I felt a little empty. So lo and behold, here comes Carl Peterson, who I hired at UCLA when I was there, brought him with me to Philadelphia, and he comes to visit me right here in Chester County, where I'm sitting right now, and says, Dick, we want you to come back and coach our Kansas city chiefs.
We talked for about eight hours that day and Lamar Hunt got involved in, you know, Lamar Hunt is one of the all time great leaders and one of the all time great influences on pro football. And then I said, you know, I will do it.
I'll do it. So it was, it was one of the best decisions I've ever made in my life was to go back.
Kansas City was a great organization, great people. It wasn't torn apart at the seams like the Eagles were and the Chiefs were, excuse me, the Rams were.
Both of those teams were the losing as teams in pro football when we took them over. And the Chiefs were not that kind.
You know, there was stability and good leadership. And I didn't need to have 51 percent vote on personnel because i had a guy that i'd help raise and and there were times we didn't agree and he was the boss so he took it wasn't a big factor but uh i really uh i'm grateful i i made that decision and listened to carl peterson and lamar yeah um so you mentioned ucla i wanted to throw out another one so uh I was listening to an interview you did, I don't know when it was, maybe a year and a half ago, the 1976 Rose Bowl.
UCLA, you're coaching UCLA. You beat Ohio State 23-10.
You're 15.5-point underdogs. You had lost to Ohio State earlier in the year.
And I heard the story. You basically told your team, listen, we all just have to figure out a way to have our best game together at the same time.
Was there ever another time that your team was able to do that where every guy was able to have their best game on the same day? Because 15.5-point underdogs, and you win by 13 points, and that's a big upset. Did you ever have that again? were you able to like get everyone to be like hey you know some of you might have your best game one day but we all have to do it together on this day you know it's funny you mentioned that yesterday i'm going through my files files looking for something i found my presentation to my rose bowl football team the first day back to start our 15-day preparation to play Ohio State.
I found it word for word, printed, not even typed, printed. And what I did is I went to my key players and asked them if they felt they had already played the finest game they'd ever played in their careers.
And not one of them. Randy Cross, John Shira, these guys, good players.

They all said, no, they didn't think they'd played their best game.

And I said, you know something, guys?

Collectively, me as a coach and you as players, for us to beat Ohio State,

we're all going to have to have our best game on the same day. You know, a lot of teams lose football games.

There's certain guys on the 11 starting on offense or defense had the finest game they ever played, but it wasn't a collective thing. So I sold that, and I had made maybe a mistake.
I had told them in the locker room after we beat USC to go to the game, Rose Bowl, I said, you know, guys, we're going to have a lot of fun going to Rose Bowl. Well, halfway through the preparation, they walked out on me.
They walked out. They didn't show up to practice.
And Shira came up to my office and said, coach, we've got a problem. He says, guys say they're not practicing.
They aren't having any fun. And you told them that's what they were going to do.
And you're working this double days. And I said, well, John, they only give us 15 days, and they've already beaten the hell out of us on national television.
And the only way to have any fun going to the Rose Bowl is to win. So we're in double days so we can improve everybody individually and collectively and play better game day.
So, and I'll come down to the locker room. So I go down there and lo and behold, there's nobody in uniform.
I mean, it's time to go to practice. Nobody in uniform.
So I, you know, I was a lot more intense and loud at that time. I ripped their asses.
Okay. I ripped them.
And I told them I was going to go on the field, carry a sign and tell them anybody that played high school football that would like to play in the Rose Bowl in a couple of weeks, come and see me. I got guys that don't want to play in this game.
So help me God. And lo and behold, I said, I'm going to dress for practice and I'm going to be out there there in 20 minutes and those of you want to go to the rose bowl and win the damn thing come on out those that don't stay in here and lo and behold one at a time they started filtering out there we started practice and the next day i cut it to single practices which was my plan anyway but you know hard work is not a form of punishment but a lot of kids think it is yeah that that's your job as a coach to teach them it is not it's a solution it's the way you get there's no correlation between working less and getting better never has been never will be especially in football now you can get fresher and not be as tired and i'm guilty of sending teams in to play games,

especially in the year, tired,

because I'd worked them too hard during the week.

And if I went back, I'd change that.

I'd learn.

But they played lights out.

Lights out.

That's awesome.

Wendell Tyler could have broke the all-time rushing record

in a Rose Bowl if he wanted to.

And Woody Hayes walked across the field with a minute to go in the game and congratulated me during the timeout. It's been documented.
It was on national television. So it worked.
How long after that resounding victory, I mean, you went around to all your players and you were like, hey, have you played your best game yet game yet sounds like that was a pretty good strategy to get them to envision playing better than they had before did you ever try to replicate that later on you're like you know what that rose bowl strategy worked pretty well i'm gonna try to do it again you have to be careful in doing that especially when you think you're going to be there a long time taylor when i did it again in 1979 the world champion pittsburgh steelers came to philadelphia to play you the one I did it again. In 1979, the world champion Pittsburgh Steelers came to Philadelphia to play like the fourth or fifth game of the season.
I think we were four and one and they were five and over. And I took that approach this week.
I said, listen, guys, the only way we're going to beat the world champions is for all of us to have a good day on the same day. If the defense plays well and the offense plays poorly,

we lose. If the special teams break down, we lose.
If I make poor decisions, we lose. Collectively, we can beat the world champions if we all try to have our best game on the same day.
We beat them. We beat them.
And that sent Philadelphia, it put our team, it ignited our football team's self-esteem.

All of a sudden, they felt totally different about themselves. We went on into the playoffs.
We won the first game, got beaten the second game. The next year, we went to the Super Bowl and lost.
But that game was the game that convinced these guys. Remember, we didn't have a first, second, or third round pick my first two years there, and they'd been losing, and we didn't have a first or second my third year there.
And the fourth year, we beat Pittsburgh Steelers. Why? Because these kids worked their butts off and got better.
So that Super Bowl, the Eagles Super Bowl, I remember watching NFL films as a kid, and the storyline that came out of it was the Raiders, their team was loose, they were able to party in New Orleans, they had guys going out all week, and the Eagles maybe a little bit more tight, a little more regimented. Did that ever dawn on you afterwards or during the week of, hey, maybe we've got to loosen it up here? Because the Raiders, that was back in the true silver and black Raiders going out, getting drunk, coming and kicking your ass on Sunday days.
I'll say this. We had 11 o'clock curfew all week.
What they did before, after meetings between that and 11 o'clock was their business. But I told them this.
If anybody embarrassed Philadelphia Eagle ownership and my coaching staff, I could send send their ass home they wouldn't play in the game okay if that made them too uptight or ruin their week i don't know what really killed us first off i didn't do a good job running the offense the defense did a good job and i can make some excuses but we are minus three in turnovers how do you win a super bowl being minus three in turnovers? And part of that was my fault. And so I accept that.
But we went into the game. There are press man coverage guys with glue on their hands, if you remember.
And I was minus my second and third wide receiver. I had Harold Carmichael.
He didn't have my other starter. Charlie Smith had broken his jaw against Minnesota.
We let him suit up and play the first snap of the game. Then he watched the game.
Scott Fitsky had a stress fracture, my third receiver, and couldn't play in the game. The guy that cut the touchdown pass was a walk-on kid, Parker.
And, you know, he can't match up against that press man-to-man in that gun. And we weren't far enough along in our own offensive scheme how to take advantage of other areas because the corners are impressed man or other areas that can't press and i didn't do a good job there i do if i could do today against the raiders at that time what they were doing then knowing what i know now would beat the hell out of them but i didn't learn fast fast enough.
Yeah, yeah. I had one last question for you, Coach.
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My last question was, I alluded to it at the beginning, you are one of the greatest criers in the history of the NFL, and I mean that in a positive way because I always loved, I always loved how emotional you were for your guys and how emotional you were for your team. Was there ever a moment where your team was like hey coach can you can you stop crying for a second because i thought it was always a positive i was like if dick vermil if you get a big win out of dick vermil he's gonna cry and it's gonna be great it's gonna make everyone else cry too yeah well you know it used to bother me and i think i'm sure that there were players that make jokes about it something like that behind my back and laugh about it.
I've heard it. Now they feel real.
I was with six of them the other night for a birthday dinner, as I said. I think I said.
But anyway, that took us out for dinner. All Eagles.
Okay. Berge, LeMaster, Randy Logan, Spagnola, Creffley, these guys.
And I'm sure that they're – but you have to be yourself. You have to be with Benny.
And I'm an emotional guy. I have always been an emotional guy.
And, you know, not too long ago, oh, it's been a while now, General Schwarzkopf. I, you know, I read his stuff.
I read his book and I knew how he felt. But he was on 60 Minutes with Barbara Walters.
And she asked him about why he was so emotional and shed tears from time to time and people around him. And he said, you know, Barbara, I don't worry about those guys under me that shed tears.
I worry about those guys that don't. He said, you know, the guys that do, I know they really care.
I know where their passion is. I understand them.
And that made me feel better. I used to walk in a stadium to go out for pregame warmup and fans said, hi, Vermeer, why don't you cry for me? I felt like clipping them the bird.
I didn't do it, you know. But, you know, I think it's very, very important to be authentic.
Be who you are. Because sooner or later, players figure who you are anyway.
And when you're consistent, they'll trust you. They'll trust you.
And they may not always agree with whatever you do or say, but when they know, they know you are you. And I think they buy in more quickly that way.
It's a great lesson, yeah.

We saw it with Dan Campbell.

He obviously cares about his team and he got emotional and when we saw that we were like,

I appreciate this guy being so passionate about his players

and his guys and his opportunity.

I love football guys, love to cry about opportunities.

If you have that passion for something,

then I'm buying in to what you're doing. Well, I'll tell you this.
Ray Agnew is assistant GM there right now. I sent Ray a note yesterday.
He played defensive tackle for me at St. Louis Rams.
We've remained very close all these years and a great guy. And I sent him a note in regard to that situation.
While I watch the Detroit Lions play. They play balls out.
Okay. I mean, they, they may not win that fricking ball game, but they are, they're going to take some prisoners.
Okay. They're going to get after you.
And I think the first minute you don't, you don't respect them, you're going to get your butt knocked off. And eventually that will permeate into positive experiences.
That's happened to my teams. I've taken over three losing football teams.
The first two years, we won about 40% of our games. Our third year, we won over 70% of them.
Sometimes it takes time. And I wasn't big on early just getting rid of people.
I like to see what people had, and maybe they do fit. They just did what they were asked to do, what they can do real well.
And so, you know, I respect Camel. I really do.
I think they're going to end up being a good football team. They played Philadelphia this week.
Yeah. They played Philadelphia in there.
Philadelphia better be ready because you're going to get their helmets knocked off every week. And that's a reflection of their head coach and their coaching staff.
I love it. You are a football guy, but, like, you're probably the best adjusted football guy we've ever had on.
Because, like, these life lessons and, like I said, the crying thing, like, I just always love, like, that's, if you watch, you know watch any press conference, any postgame, it's like how would you not want to play for a guy like that? Because he cares. I appreciate you saying that.
I appreciate you saying this. What I said to Ray Agnew yesterday in a note I wrote a long time ago that rebuilding a losing football team is like remodeling your home and living in it while you're doing it.
Everything is disrupting. People walk by the street and say, geez, what an ugly looking house that is.
And your wife's mad at you and nothing fits and all that. But you gradually rebuild it from the inside out.
And all of a sudden, people are walking by that house you rebuilt and say, God, it looks a lot better than I ever thought it would.

That's the NFL coaching. So what would be the first step in that if you're redoing the foundation? You know, you can't paint the siding on the first week.
You put the finishing touches, the cosmetic stuff on later. If you're fixing the Lions or a team in that situation, how do you address that straight up? You start out telling the truth.
And the first training camp, you guarantee them this, that they may not make the football team, but by the end of training camp, they're going to be better football players. And those that make it, I used to say, like the guys that landed in Normandy, not all of them made it, but at the end, everybody wins.
And that's just the way it is in the NFL. There are times I cut people I would have loved to have been able to keep them on the roster because they were making a contribution to us eventually going to be in a better football team.
They just weren't gifted enough. But they had everything else.
And sometimes they had more in terms of commitment and desire to play well. And, you know, it's harder to do that now, guys, because the union controls how much time you spend on the practice field, not how much time the team needs to get better.
You know, and when players start working at a level and a tempo and an effort that they start seeing the reward from their work,

it becomes what they really believe in.

And like I always tell them, guys,

you're going to end up making more money when you play better.

It's all controlled in your effort every day to get better.

And it's my job to provide you in the environment and the assistant coaches that can help you get better.

And I've said this many times and I've had the opportunity to prove winning is not complicated people complicated i love it that's a great lesson um coach thank you so much best of luck we're rooting for you to make the hall of fame and uh we really appreciate you joining us and giving us some of your time it's always exciting as hell to talk football okay guys yeah yeah i'm 85 years old friday my pulse rate right now is a hell of a lot better higher than normal let's go anytime anytime you want to talk football i love it come on back thank you thank you guys take care all right time see ya this episode is brought to you by hey dude hey dude have you tried you tried Hey Dude? If you haven't experienced them yet, Hey Dude shoes are insanely comfortable, lightweight, and easy to slip on. With so many options to choose from, you'll find the perfect shoe for every occasion.
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Head to HeyDude.com slash barstool to shop our favorites and now for something completely different okay we now welcome on our very good friend uh recurring guest mike florio uh i noticed that you have your book in the background playmakers out soon out soon well march 15 it's really not as soon as i would like it to be it's ready to go you can pre-order it now we do a playmakers podcast for the people who have pre-ordered exclusive access etc etc but yeah it's not out until march 15 so i had a thought the other day this is going to shock you i had a thought that i was going to maybe actually read it now i didn't open't open it. I didn't do anything with that thought, but I had the thought.
At least you're getting there. Yeah.
And maybe by March 15 of 2023, you actually will start reading it. You guys have two of the very rare advanced copies.
There weren't many and you each got one. And I sent them both knowing that the chances of you guys reading them were somewhere between no fucking way and never in a million years.
Well, actually, Mike, I have mine. I didn't want to take it out of the package that you sent it in because it's worth so much more on the resale market.
Once these things go and they're gone for good, I'm going to be raking it in. So I'm going to put that sucker on eBay.
What's his name? king golden says he expects it to get 750 000 bid on it minimum can i have it back if i ask nicely well that's that actually is a great segue to bring us to our point of having you on today which is the tom brady ball the 600 touchdown ball that got given away by mike evans to a fan it's our position that the bucks went over there and they kind of the guy into giving the ball back. And eventually they made it better.
Tom said that he's given him like a Bitcoin. He got a couple of signed jerseys, season tickets, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
We had a discussion on Sunday's show. We wanted to get to the bottom of it legally.
You're a former lawyer. At least you say that you are.
Did they have a right to demand the ball back? Or once it gets handed to the fan, does it become his property or her property? I actually did research on this. The first legal question I have researched in years, I quit practicing in 2010.
And what I did was now, now look, I don't know whether or not there's some quirk in Florida law. After all, it is Florida.
There could be some personal property law there that would allow someone who gives someone else something to go reclaim it within a certain period of time, like some sort of, you know, regret law or some BS like that that they've concocted. But I looked at the season ticket agreement.
I looked at the general ticket agreement. I look for anything in there that would give the Buccaneers the ability to go to someone who got a souvenir, whether it got kicked, thrown or handed and say, you have to give that back.
And I found nothing. I checked with someone else.
It's a team by team procedure. And I guess if you wanted to, you could put a provision like that in the ticket.
You have all sorts of BS, fine print, boilerplate stuff on a ticket. There's nothing on the Tampa Bay Buccaneers tickets that would give them the right to go get it.
And think about what a PR debacle it would be. If you have one of your players hand somebody something and then they go and try to take it back.
Bad customer relations, bad PR. And I don't think they'd have a leg to stand on if it would end up in court that's washington football team giving we don't do that yeah well and you know washington football team would probably be the only team that would try to do something like that sue a fan over something that ended up in the stands so yep so you're looking up this law and was there any moment where you're like what am i doing no because you guys asked me to do something and i do it i mean mean, what the hell? You know, that's what family does.
I'm telling you, we're taping this at noon Eastern, and I have a very rigid Rain Man schedule for my lunch. I'm delaying my lunch for this.
So you guys want me to do something, I do it. Not only that, I saw that you usually put your power rankings out at exactly noon on Tuesdays.
We kind of interfered with that as well. You had to put them out.
Had to get him done early. Had to stay up late last night.
After I researched Florida law, after I read in detail every word of the season ticket agreement for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, I got my power rankings done and posted them so I could focus exclusively on preparation for this momentous occasion. So no harm, no foul with the fan.
It was, you know, the Bucs. It's different than baseball.
Like baseball, if you catch the ball the ball you've caught the ball and it's like a big accomplishment because you're competing with everyone this to me was like a very simple open and shut case of Mike Evans was stupid to give the ball away and then once they realized the mistake the fan gets something out of it he got the bitcoin he got a lot of stuff like give it back I don't know it's just it doesn't feel like the same as baseball like i i know everyone's like he should have left the stadium he should have fucking sold it mike evans screwed up like mike evans was the one who shouldn't have done that and maybe you can blame tom brady for not telling him that it was the 600th touchdown pass but uh i feel like it was like kind of an open shot hey everyone everyone wins but but but no because the guy was given basically a half million dollars if you listen to the experts who value these things. I get it, but it was a mistake.
Like Mike Evans, if he had known it was his 600th ball, he never would have given it to him. It's not like a baseball where it's like hit and then you compete with people for the ball and you get it and then it's like, oh, we can hold it over their head and all that stuff.
Like Mike Evans fucked up. if it's the record setting home run ball and i don't know what the single season record is anymore i don't know what the all-time record is anymore but what if it's some sort of a record home run ball and the guy wants it back and they come find you and say we want that ball back it has a lot of meaning to the hitter that's different to me then i i would i would hold out on that because getting a home run ball is harder.
You earned it in a weird way because, like, everyone's competing for a home run ball. You bought the ticket.
You knew it could be hit. Like, when Barry Bonds was going for the record, everyone was buying tickets hoping they would get it.
This is simply Mike Evans, like, handing a ball by accident to a guy, and the guy, he's got a pretty good package out of it. I know that people are going to say he could have gotten way more.
Maybe Bitcoin keeps going up and he gets that million dollars. Well, and I have a feeling Tom Brady didn't buy that Bitcoin.
I think Tom Brady's crypto sponsor is paying for the Bitcoin, so he's really not anything. The guy wanted to golf with Tom Brady.
Shouldn't the guy get around the golf with Tom Brady? He will. I bet you he will.
In baseball will in baseball if this were the case if it was applicable then Zach Campbell would be put to death he would be like public enemy number one I feel like in in football it is a little bit different because you don't you don't buy a ticket for a football game with the expectation that hey there's going to be you know 20 30 balls that are given away over the course of a game unless they're playing the Jets. But we see time and again.
And I don't know why Mike Evans picked a grown man. We usually see a kid giving football.
He does. He always does.
He's an equal opportunity ball giver away. He gives the grown men and kids.
But if you watch highlights on Football Night in America or elsewhere, you see time and again. If you're sitting down there in the vicinity of the end zone, you have a chance of getting a touchdown ball.
They bring it over and they give it to you. So it's no different than the chance of getting a foul ball at a baseball game.
So I don't buy that argument. I think it is different because you're giving something versus like actually catching it.
Like you're giving it to you. He's like, hey, take this.
You didn't do anything to earn it. You just sat there.
You stood out. You did something to get the guy's attention.
He yelled, Big Mike. And Big Mike brought him the football.
Big Mike. So, I mean, I kind of do agree with Florio in the fact that, yeah, it would be kind of a shithead move to not give the ball back when you're asked and with the understanding that you'll get, they'll make it right from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers' perspective, and they'll give you a lot of stuff.
It'll be great. It's not really your ball.
It's just dumb luck that you got it in the first place. I agree it would kind of be a shithead move to do that, but at the same time, $500,000 is $500,000.
I would have no problem being labeled a shithead if it is legally my right to hang onto that ball. And I know that Billy actually did some case law research to look up the legal precedent.
I'm sure this will be a meeting of the finest legal minds in America. Billy, what did you find out when you dug through as a paralegal? I just have a question.
Because the ball is technically Tampa Bay Buccaneers' team property because they bring their offensive balls to the game, they're not the NFL balls that they use for kicking, wouldn't they be able to argue that even if the fan wanted to keep it, take the half a million dollars and run out of the stadium, that Mike Evans wasn't an agent of the team to give their property up? And since all balls are labeled and under their insurance, that they could just claim ownership of that ball. He is an agent of the team.
Wow. Well, now there's two types of authority.
There's actual authority and apparent authority. And he has the apparent authority to scoop up a football on a touchdown.
He scored and hand it to a fan forever done over no givebacks, no take backs. Once that transfer is committed from the fans perspective, that fans got the right to assume that Mike Evans has the authority to surrender that football based upon the common practice of NFL players to hand over footballs after they score touchdowns.
Boom roasted. Oh, okay.
It's not a boom roasted when you get Billy. Did you roast me? I just felt like saying.
Yeah, this is your degree. I like it.
Billy may want to reconsider his life choices and go to law school. He articulated a very fine argument there.
He's had two days to think about that sentence. I'm just wondering that if they had a group of lawyers, could they have gotten the ball back from this guy? Wouldn't they look like complete assholes if they even tried? That's a Dan Snyder move.
That's an only Dan Snyder would do that. But just technically, if they wanted to.
It'd be tough. It'd be tough because he handed him the ball.
And that's what happens at football games. People get handed footballs.
So, you know, if the guy wanted to dig in for the 500 grand or whatever that ball was going to be worth, and if he wanted to fight over it, and Brady said it himself last night on the Manning cast, the guy lost all of his leverage when he gave the ball back. I mean, he should have gotten that ball.
He should have declared to everyone sitting around him,

I got to take a dump and disappeared and never come back.

You got to get out of there with the ball,

take it home, and then figure out what to do.

I don't know.

I feel like everyone kind of won in this way.

I know everyone's like $500,000,

but again, it feels like Mike Evans is the one who should pay anyway.

He's the one who fucked up.

That's really what it comes down to.

He should have had the presence of mind

to know not to give that ball away.

I agree with you.

And if the guy had taken off with the ball,

then Tom Brady could go to Mike Evans and say,

you have to buy the ball back from the guy

or you have to wait until he auctions it

whenever he auctions it

and you have to go buy it and give it back to him.

Yeah, that would have been fair.

Real quick, Mike, before we let you go

and you can buy Playmakers if you're a book person.

I don't know why you're listening to this podcast if you're also a reader.

That's kind of weird.

Thanks very much for that.

Thanks for helping.

It comes out March 15th.

Very excited to read it or sell it.

Sure.

I had a question about the Washington football team and the emails because I know you've

been hot on the case of this congressional investigation into Dan Snyder and into those emails. Just give me a temperature reading, like scale one to 100.
How likely is this going to result in Dan Snyder being forced to forfeit the team? Too early to tell. But the fact that it's on the congressional radar screen and they intend to push forward and they want a response from the NFL by November 4 and they have the right to issue subpoenas if they want to.
I'd say once somebody with the power to get to the bottom of it gets involved, it gets north of 50. It was under 50.
It was well under 50 until somebody decided to peel off some of these secret emails and take out John Gruden. That's when it all changed.
And then once it got the attention of Congress and, you know, the union could still try to file a lawsuit and get these emails. But once, and I believe, frankly, July 1, when the NFL announced its punishment of Dan Snyder, the reason no details were provided is because if we knew the details of the findings of the investigation, it would be as untenable for Snyder to continue as the owner as it was for Gruden to continue as the coach of the Raiders.
Once we know about it, it's over. So if they get to a point where we know about some of the things that Beth Wilkinson, the investigator found, I think it becomes untenable at that point publicly for Snyder to continue.
So if we get this information, my gut tells me Snyder's going to have to sell. Okay.
So I just need one person, one powerful person in Congress to latch onto this, like a dog onto one of those guys running around in the fat suits, right? You got two. Two people signed the letter to the commissioner and November 4 is the deadline.
And it kind of died down because football is the ultimate source of bright, shiny objects to distract us from the problems because they always got games coming up. We had a whole weekend of games and even though they weren't great games, everyone's forgotten about it.
Well, Congress hasn't and they're on the case and it'll be interesting to see how hard they push and if the NFL cooperates. Last week when they addressed it, all they said was we look forward to talking to Representative Carolyn Maloney's office.
They didn't say we'll cooperate with whatever Congress wants. All right.
Last question. Percentage chance Deshaun Watson is traded in the next whatever, seven days, 10 days.
95. Whoa.
95 is a listen. 95 is the kiss of death.
I should say 94.9 because I've learned anytime anybody says there's a 95 percent chance of something happening, it never happens. So 94.9% chance, Miami, 75, Carolina, 25.
Wow. Let me go Carolina, 24, 1%, some crazy wildcard team.
But Miami's the favorite, and it's up to Deshaun. He's got the no trade clause.
He will choose his next destination, Miami first, then Carolina. The chances of him being with the Texans next Tuesday after the trade deadline, very, very, very, very slow.
Wow. So does Roger Goodell go God mode and put him on the exempt list and say, guess what, you're not playing after he gets traded? He makes no decisions until he has to, and they haven't made a decision because he's not playing now.
Once he's traded, they'll look at the circumstances that will exist when a trade happens. And the circumstances can change.
They almost settled the 22 cases against Deshaun Watson four or five months ago. And they had the talks bogged down on the question of whether or not the settlement would be confidential.
That means they already had a number in mind. You don't start haggling over whether or not it's going to be a secret settlement if you don't know what the settlement's going to be.
That could be done at any time. And if those cases are settled when he's traded, the commissioner could look at it differently and decide to let him play.
Either way, they're going to get criticized, but they're not going to make a decision until they have to. Okay.
Well, thanks for coming on. Playmakers comes out sometime in March.

There's a 95% chance I'll read it.

So thank you for sending that our way, Mike.

Yeah.

I thought about it.

That's a big step.

That's a big step.

That's good.

I assume that your kid will get his hands on it and rip all the pages out

and draw on it.

Go ahead.

Let him draw on it. Let him have some fun.
If you're never going to read it, at least use that paper for draw on it. Go ahead.
Let them draw on it.

Let them have some fun.

If you're never going to read it, at least use that paper for something.

Okay, I will.

Maybe roll a joint because I know you like to smoke weed.

That's actually the great selling point of Mike's book,

Playmakers, out March 15th.

Each page is actually rolling paper so you can smoke with it. And actually halfway through, you know how they have the pictures? It's actually, it changes to blunt paper.
So buy Mike Florio's book and smoke a bunch of joints with it. Well done.
That's the best endorsement we're going to get. All right.
Thanks, Mike. See you, Mike.
Thanks, guys. All right.
See you. Okay, Let's wrap up.
Thanks to Mike Florio and Dick Vermeule. Let's wrap up with some guys on Chicks.
Hank, Henry, Henry, Henry. Daniel.
Henry. Hi, DadCat, PopPunk, Legend, and the crew.
I just got my nipples pierced, and I was wondering if you all could explain how this will change my body slash sex life slash future motherhood. Well, you got hotter.
I have no idea, to be honest with you. Yeah, you got more intimidating.
And hotter. Probably better at sex.
Yeah. And hotter.
I don't know. You might chip some teeth with it.
Yeah. I've always wondered about that.
I don't really understand the whole body piercing thing. It makes me really sound like an old fart, but I don't.
I, I, nose piercings. I don't think are, I don't think are, I don't think are, I don't think are, I don't think are, I don't think are, I don't really understand the whole body piercing thing.

It makes me really sound like an old fart, but I don't.

Nose piercings I don't think are very attractive.

Ears, okay.

But anything else?

Lip?

Wow.

Yeah.

It's very judgmental. I didn't know you were nosest.

Have you ever seen a nose ring that you're like, that's good?

Yeah.

Really?

I like nose rings.

I don't like the ones that go through the middle. I like the ones on the outside.
Yeah, they're like little baby ones. Yeah, those are cute.
Love them. Also, when you breastfeed, it's going to be like one of those super soakers that shoots in different directions.
So that's going to be something to take care of. Hi, Big Cat PFT and Hank.
Hypothetically speaking, if someone was going to slide into Billy Football's DMs, what would you say?

Ribbit.

No, I would say, hey, sup, Billy?

Got this crazy story about an offensive lineman in high school in Texas who ate a pancake before he pancaked someone.

Also, what's your number?

I think, yeah, it's pretty self-explanatory. If you've listened to the show, it should not be a mystery.
He's looking hot today in his boots. He's got his fuck boots on.
Leave me alone. Those are absurd.
Billy's wearing straight-up cowboy boots. And I was like, Billy, are you going to the honky-tonk later? And he was like, well, there's water outside.

But I feel like those being your waterproof boots is a little bit wild.

Well, there's water outside.

They are nice boots.

There's like a foot of water outside of my door.

So what I do is I take two garbage bags and I put them around the boot and inside the boot so they're waterproof.

Wait, but why wouldn't you just get waterproof boots?

Because I was going to ask for them for Christmas because I need a new pair. Okay, ask right now.
You got an alternate under you like this week? Would you like some waterproof boots? Yeah, how about if Billy gives us a winner this weekend? An alternate under winner. Okay, so in the pick thing, I am exactly 50.
I'm thinking if I'm that good at picking 50, I might as well start trying to go for the top. Oh! So I might just start giving only winners.
Oh, fuck! Like, I've gotten exactly 50. That's dangerous.
Wow. I might actually only start giving winners.
Okay. All right, we'll get you some new boots for Christmas.
I actually would love some of those waiters, those Georgia boots. Okay.
Waiters. Pick them out and send them to me.
Yeah. If you're a good boy.
You're not going to make them earn them? You have to give Big Cat an alternate under, and then if that hits, then he'll give his shoes. Or an alternate over.
Okay. I'll find it.
I will get you a 10-point differential. I'll bet it.
And if I hit it, I will get you some boots. Waders, please.
Waders, whatever you want. What about Crocs? If my baby wants, My baby wants, my baby gets.
No more Crocs? No, because this water is pretty dirty. There's sewage in it.
The toe shoes. Sewey water.
I need waiters. Sup, boys.
How come when a man gets lightly tapped at his balls, it hurts so bad, but when you're doing doggy style, the balls are clanking and that doesn hurt i need answers because we're liars it's a big it's a big lie that men have told each other that we've kept you on the outside of our balls never hurt when you hit them it's just something funny that's why we always laugh when we see a guy get hit in the nuts that's why this podcast almost broke up yeah nut taps yeah it's a lot it's like a fun thing where it's like how all these women actually believe that we're in pain. I don't know the answer to this.
This makes no sense. This person's right.
I think it's like a concussion. Oh.
Because when you get hit in the head, you don't get concussed all the time, but sometimes when you get hit in a certain way, your brain tears from the lining of your skull, and that's concussion. I don't think that's what a concussion is.
Or no, it's like, I don't know, when you get shot but you don't feel it for a second because of shock, your head is so like... There's blood going other places.
Yeah, you're feeling the fuck and you're not thinking about the pain. That's probably right.
Whereas when you get nut tapped, all you can do is think about the pain. I think as guys are fucking, we're incapable of thinking about anything all so you could yeah you could walk up and stab us in our back while we're having sex and be like this is awesome i'm getting laid what were you gonna say i have enough i mean this doesn't make any sense i'm not a doctor so this is probably dead wrong but like maybe like like semen comes from the balls right yeah so maybe like also like maybe when you get tapped in the balls out of nowhere all the semen's down there but when you're fucking it's like not still it's like working its way up oh so it's not semen that gets it's not the balls aren't clanging as much semen is the thing i don't know that i literally just made that up i think you're right i think you're right.
I think you're right. You're thinking that the semen have nerves.
Yeah, because if you nut tap someone who hasn't jerked off in a long time, it hurts even more. Right.
Is that right? No. Right.
No, that's right. Alright.
What's up? I'm sure someone... Right.
What's up, DadCat, ShortKing, PFT, Honk, and the rest of you? My husband has been sober for three years and would much rather play video games than go out to a bar or party with me. Our friends usually ask after him and I make up excuses for him and they totally get it.
Mostly because they know he loves gaming more than me. I'm typically fine doing my own thing most of the time, but we got invited to a Halloween party and I really don't want to make an excuse for him, but he also really doesn't want to go, even though he loves wearing his banana costume most years.
Am I an asshole for pushing him to come with me? Any ideas on how I can convince him offering sexual favors doesn't really do the trick. Anyway, thanks for help.
Love you guys. This one's a layup, in my opinion.
Yeah? Whatever game he plays, just buy him the costume of his favorite character. Oh! Just be like, oh, I got you a Master Chief costume.
Like, let's go to this party. I like that, Billy.
He's like, damn into gaming. That's really good, Billy.
You could also just buy him whatever game he wants or, I don't know, headset, chair, gaming chair. Just give him some Mountain Dew.
Tell him to just suck it up. Everyone has to do shit they don't like.
Relationship life, yeah. The only difference is he's sober, and so maybe going to a party, maybe that might...

Sounds like he doesn't want to do anything.

Yeah.

So I think it's probably...

The problem with not drinking is everywhere you go, everybody drinks all the time.

Just tell him to go to the beginning.

Be like, we'll go for the first two hours before everyone gets drunk.

What's up, fellas?

My boyfriend has a cat.

Is this a red flag?

Yes.

Yeah.

It depends on how he procured the cat.

If he caught it by himself in the wild, it plays.

Or rescued.

Or rescued.

Or if he lost a bet and had to get it.

Yep.

I think that's a good thing, too.

Yep.

Any other reason?

Red flag.

If you woke up one morning and he was like, know what i'm sick of being catless in my life well here's that's a red here's the spin zone if you date your should you say boyfriend already yeah okay uh you can cheat on him and and he'll take you back like as a cat guy that's absolutely he'll be like you know, it was my fault. I didn't pay enough attention to you.
Sorry you cheated. PFT and the football team.
All right, last one. Excuse me? I took my boyfriend.
Beg your pardon me? That's a callback. That's a callback.
Yeah, it's a callback. Yeah, I know I'm in an abusive relationship.
Okay, I get it. I know I am.
So I took my boyfriend to a restaurant with arcade games. We wanted to do a little challenge.
He thought he would beat me 10-0. Short story, I beat him 8-2 and he acts like he was trying not to win and he could beat me if he really wanted to.
What do I do? What do I need to do so he stops crying? Billy? I tell you blacked out that whole question. Yeah, that's probably good.
Yeah. I think it was just you.
It was about you. Yeah.
I think Jake wrote in to try to get a tip on how to make you feel better. I get you to stop crying.
I just can't stop crying. Do you actually know what the question's about? It's about Dave and Buster's? Oh, there you go.
That was some prime context clues you used there to figure that one out.

It also shows that Dave and Buster's experience is still very close to the top of his mind.

Blacked it out.

Are you okay?

Everyone's okay.

It's not okay to be okay.

Tell us what you were laughing about the entire first segment.

It's not okay to be okay?

That's not it.

That was not the same. I actually think that depressed people should start saying that.
It's not okay to be okay? That's not it. That is not the same.

I actually think that depressed people should start saying

that. It's not okay to be okay.

Like, fuck you for being okay.

Fight back. It's the exact same thing as saying

it's okay to not be okay. Yeah.
Start fighting

back. Negative vibes

only. I'm actually...
You're goofing.

You're cheesing. Tell us.

One thing on my phone was hilarious.

Tell us. It was a text from a friend.

You laughed for honestly 10 minutes.

Come on.

No context.

Just give us the text.

Read the text word for word.

No, I can't.

Read it.

No, I can't.

It's an order.

No, it's not.

It is.

I just gave you an order.

It's not an order?

Yes, I can give you orders.

I'm your boss.

Says who?

Says me.

I'm your boss.

Hank's my boss, technically.

That's not true. That's not true.
That's on paper. Hank's my boss.
Hank, would you like to give him an order? Yes, I'd your boss. Says who? Says me.
I'm your boss. Hank's my boss, technically.
That's not true. That's not true.
That's not true. On paper, Hank's my boss.
Hank, would you like to give him an order? Yes, I'd demand you. Well, Hank's not actually an order.
Oh, he gave you a demand. So now you're a liar.
The debate is not an order. Guys, can we just move on? No.
You disrupted the show earlier. And we're not leaving until you read the text.
Okay, whales can explode. No.
You guys, I are not budging on this. No.

Okay, you're not fired, but you're suspended for a week.

When you were coming back full time, I specifically requested to not be your boss because I would kill you otherwise.

You're off the show for a week.

Make your choice.

Take that deal.

One.

Two.

Come on, guys.

Just a sentence, something. His friend wants a job at Barstool.
What? That's not bad. Why did you giggle? Because he thinks his friend's an idiot? Because his friend wants to sleep with...
I'm trying to get myself... Jake.
Jake. Was he like my fucking idiot friend? Wants a job, don't give it to him? No, I said he has to be like clinically an idiot.
To work here? You said the R word. No, I didn't.
You just said, what else does clinically an idiot mean? He's got to be mentally an idiot. He's got to mentally be an idiot.
That's pretty odd. You did a terrible job of disguising that one.
He's got to have idiot syndrome.

He's got to be clinically idiot.

Sorry that my friend is medically dumb.

All right.

Numbers.

Don't tell me what I said.

Eight.

Ninety-three.

Ninety-seven.

Six.

Sixty-nine.

Whales sometimes randomly explode if they're dead.

Fifteen? New number. All right.
How many we got left? 14. Wow.
All right. All right.
Love you guys. I'll be your dream.
I'll be your wish. I'll be your fantasy.
I'll be your rock, I'll be your love, be everything that you need. I love you more with every breath, truly, madly, deeply do.
I will be strong, I will be thankful, cause I'm happy, I'm a good one. Good beginning, a reasonable living, a deeper meaning in it.
I want to stand with you on a mountain. I want to play with you in the sea.
I want to lay like this forever. Run to the sky See you next time.
Oh, make a wish and victory And whatever you want in heart Oh, dear, the joy For all the pleasure and the certainty That we're surrounded by The comfort and protection Of the highest power In the three hours The's just about you.

I want to stand with you on a mountain.

I want to play with you in the city.

I want to make life is forever. Until the sun falls out on me

Falls out on me