Michael Jordan's Trainer Tim Grover, Stories About MJ, Last Dance 7 & 8 Review, Mt Flushmore Of Teammates

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Speaker 1 On today's part in my take, we have Michael Jordan's longtime trainer, Tim Grover. Great conversation with him about MJ's training, his competitive

Speaker 1 drive,

Speaker 1 what actually happened at the flu game, the food poisoning game, as he explains.

Speaker 1 Great interview. We also have Last Dance episodes seven and eight recap.
We have Who's Back of the Week, the Mount Flushmore of teammates,

Speaker 1 and Billy Football with his deep dive because it is Monday.

Speaker 4 When cool, creamy ranch meets tangy, bold buffalo, the hole is greater than the sum of its sauce. Say howdy, partner, to new Buffalo Ranch sauce only at McDonald's for a limited time.

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Speaker 1 Okay, let's go.

Speaker 1 Now in the streets, there is violence.

Speaker 1 And then I love the solved work to be done.

Speaker 1 No place to hang all over washing.

Speaker 1 And then I can't blame all on the song. Oh, no, we're gonna rock it down to Electric Avenue.

Speaker 1 And then we take it higher.

Speaker 1 Oh, we're gonna rock it down to Electric Avenue.

Speaker 1 Welcome to part of my take presented by the Cash App. Go download it right now.
Use code Barstool. You get $10 for free, $10 to the ASPCA.
Today is Monday, May 11th.

Speaker 1 And PFT, I think those were the two best episodes of the last dance. I'm going to start with a quote, actually.
The last montage in episode 7 when MJ was talking about his competitive drive.

Speaker 1 And he said, people will see this and say he wasn't a nice guy, and he may have been a tyrant. Well, that's you because you never won anything.
That had me ready to run through a brick wall.

Speaker 1 Those were two awesome episodes.

Speaker 2 The thing is, he was right. Like, he MJ sees the world on a different level from everybody else, and yes, that probably makes him an asshole to the rest of us.

Speaker 2 But on the other hand, it also is exactly what made him great.

Speaker 2 And he was crying because I think he was crying because he was so pissed off that people didn't expect as much from themselves as he did from everybody else.

Speaker 2 Or maybe it was crying because he was thinking, oh shit, MJ, you're about to cry. That sucks.
You better, oh man, I'm going to cry because I'm thinking about myself crying.

Speaker 1 I think he might have been crying because he probably at times has felt misunderstood. You know, you talk about the first,

Speaker 1 they had that whole segment in episode 7. I thought episode 7 was the strongest episode of the entire documentary.
It was so, so well done.

Speaker 1 But him retiring, the media narrative that started that was like, oh, well, it must have something to do with his dad getting shot must have something to do with his gambling, which that is one of those times where I'm happy this didn't happen in 2020 because

Speaker 1 the conspiracy theorists would be out of control.

Speaker 1 It'd be so much worse than it was already with the media running with it.

Speaker 2 On the other hand, I agree with you.

Speaker 2 I think that there would be so much stuff out there about his dad getting shot and how it was MJ's fault, but it would come from people who weren't established in the media.

Speaker 2 It's wild to think that in the mid-90s media, all these people who were given columns were no better than just like some Twitter egg that wanted to like put this shit out there, and they got away with it, and they still have jobs to this day.

Speaker 2 It's crazy. Like, I know when Sean Taylor was shot, there was some stuff that came out too, like with Coward and Michael Wilbon.

Speaker 2 It's wild at the end of the day, we're all Twitter eggs, just some of us have a much bigger platform. And the fact that they went like straight up with this narrative is just insane to me.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was insane. And it's, but that that episode and how much it affected him and coming back and the I'm back press conference, it was all so good.

Speaker 1 And I think this also the reason why these two episodes were so great was it really was MJ to his core with the shit talking, calling Scott Burrell a hoe, which is very, very funny.

Speaker 1 I wonder, though, when they did that,

Speaker 1 do you think they sat down? Do you think ESPN sat down and was like, we like, should it be H-O-E or H-O? Like, like, actually, have a discussion over it. Whoever was doing the subtitles.

Speaker 2 That was Jordan. That was Jordan getting final cut.

Speaker 2 Like, that was really the only reason that he wanted to make sure that he had the last view on this was so that he could make sure that his subtitles of talking shit to Scotty Burrell were 100% accurate.

Speaker 2 I actually think that the meanest thing that he said to Scotty was, go home and feed your cat. Go home and feed your cat is like, get your fucking shine box.
That's like

Speaker 1 the meanest thing he said was that he's a nice guy. Yeah.
Yeah, well, that was the best.

Speaker 1 He was so mad about it because he was like, yeah, I basically tried to get Scott Burrell to fight me for forever, and he just wouldn't do it. He's too nice of a guy.
Scott Burrell also, weirdly,

Speaker 1 like, we'll get to the Steve Kerr and how MJ respects Steve Kerr because he went at him.

Speaker 1 But Scott Burrell was the only guy who in MJ's career could have been like, dude, I was a better baseball player than you. He was drafted in the first round in Major League Baseball.

Speaker 2 Well, he probably didn't want to say that because Jordan would have murdered him if he had said that to him. That would have been like a bridge too far for him.

Speaker 2 And kind of the whole narrative in this whole thing is, you know, MJ was an asshole, but he was competitive. It was part of his personality.
And being an asshole,

Speaker 2 it can make you exceptional. Actually, I want to rephrase that.

Speaker 2 If you are exceptionally talented at what you do and you're an asshole, then people view it through a different prism of, oh, yeah, okay, you're bringing out the best in everybody.

Speaker 2 But if you're an asshole and you're anything less than great, then you're just Lance Stevenson. You know, you're just like a guy that nobody really will ever truly care about that much.

Speaker 2 But with MJ, like the combination of his talent and his personality, like you don't say that him being a jerk made him great, but you're saying that his greatness, like, yeah, he probably would not have

Speaker 2 been looked at in the way that we look at him right now if he didn't have that personality.

Speaker 1 Well, and yeah, it's chicken and the egg because it's you can't have that personality if you're not that much better than everyone else. You know what I mean? You can't push.

Speaker 1 I thought that the part where he said, I never asked anyone to do something I didn't do myself, that is what a true leader is. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Whether you agree with his tactics, whether you agree with the bullying and pushing people to the limit,

Speaker 1 that's a different discussion. I happen to agree with it because it's professional sports.
It's not like corporate America.

Speaker 1 There's a lot different, you know, when you're pushing yourselves as hard as you can to be the greatest team ever, you're going to have to make sacrifices. And people, there won't, like B.J.

Speaker 1 Armstrong said it perfectly: he can't be nice. You cannot be nice and be what he is.
He is an insanely competitive guy who's better at basketball than everyone he plays with.

Speaker 1 So just that existence, it's impossible to be nice when you have to, you know, like he said to Bill Lennington, jump on the cape and, you know, don't let go. And the whole thing was great.

Speaker 1 And my favorite part of the two episodes is the three different stories we have of MJ seeking vengeance.

Speaker 1 And it all comes out, it was perfectly done by the director because he basically showed that no matter what you do, you're fucked.

Speaker 1 So he had, we started with BJ Armstrong going off against the Bulls in the playoffs, and then MJ being like, fuck that, and shutting him down the next game, just shitting on him.

Speaker 1 Then you had LeBradford Smith, the famous LeBradford Smith story, the nice game, Mike, which MJ admittedly just made up. And on top of that,

Speaker 1 I don't even know if they mentioned mentioned it, but the Bulls won both those games. So MJ was just mad that a guy named LeBradford Smith scored 37 points.
Like, they still won the game.

Speaker 1 And then you have George Carl not saying hello at dinner. So it's either

Speaker 1 you celebrated too much, you didn't say hello, or you literally did absolutely nothing but your own job in LeBradford Smith. No matter what, you're fucked.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I was thinking about that. Like, MJ is very good at making up reasons to be mad about people.

Speaker 2 And in this case, case his reason to be mad about george carl was the fact that he didn't have anything to get mad at george carl about because he didn't say hi to him it's like maybe george carl was told at one point in his life if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all so michael jordan was like he's he wants to say all the worst things to me but he's being too polite so therefore he thinks very bad things about me i'm keeping a running track of the names that mj has ended he's literally taken names people bradford smith yeah never scored 20 points again in his career i think he was out of the league a year later Not only that, LeBradford Smith is out of the league, but nobody's named LeBradford anymore.

Speaker 2 Nobody is named Clyde anymore.

Speaker 1 No one was named LeBron Smith.

Speaker 2 I'm keeping track. I'm keeping track.
No one's named Clyde anymore. He ended Clyde after Clyde Drexler.
He ended LeBradford. He ended Craig.
I actually looked this up.

Speaker 2 Babies named Craig since the Craig Elo shot have shot down 97%.

Speaker 2 97% in that time. No one's named Craig anymore.
And I think Reggie, I think you can add Reggie to that list. There aren't any babies named Reggie anymore.

Speaker 1 That was a great start to the whole thing. The way to go, Craig, after he asked Jerry Krauss, like straight up, like, hey, how about this backstabbing? And then he ended the

Speaker 1 big J on J crime. Way to go, Craig.
You ruined it for everyone. It was, the whole thing was great.
I, you know, the emotional end to episode seven was awesome. I also,

Speaker 1 the, the Father's Day win, which Randy Brown grabbing the ball was so cringy at the moment, and it still holds up as like one of the worst, like, read-the-room moments after the Bulls beat the Sonics, and he just jumps in like a loot trying to get a loose ball out of MJ's hands.

Speaker 1 When it's like, clearly, he's so emotional, Father's Day, all these things.

Speaker 1 What else did we have?

Speaker 2 There was, I mean, there was a lot about the minor league baseball career that I thought was interesting.

Speaker 2 Like, I never knew, I think I'd heard it before, but I'd forgotten that when he went to AA, the only reason he went there was because the facilities had enough space to accommodate the media that were going to be following MJ around.

Speaker 2 And his time spent in the minor leagues, like Terry Francona is saying that if he had gotten more at bats, he could have been a major leaguer. He was that determined.

Speaker 2 Baseball is one of those sports, though, where he was talking about how much batting practice he was taking, and at the end of the day, his hands would just be raw with blisters.

Speaker 2 You reach a limit to how many times you can swing a bat in a day. So it's just one of those things that's going to take longer in terms of

Speaker 2 the amount of days that you spend practicing that, not necessarily just like practicing balls to the wall every single day. It doesn't always work like that.

Speaker 1 But he hit 268, I think, I believe, in the fall league. So he was clearly making like pretty big, you know, signs of progression.

Speaker 1 And this is a guy who had not played baseball in whatever, 12 years, 15 years.

Speaker 1 Like, it's pretty insane for him to go there and not just strike out every single day and then go back where he clearly wasn't 100%.

Speaker 1 You know, we have Tim Grover coming up. He actually put a percentage to it coming out of baseball, but, you know, dropping a double nickel against the Knicks and,

Speaker 1 you know, being like Nick Anderson pushing him to change his number, which I love that moment because it's another, like, Michael Jordan cannot handle anyone trying to test him because he, the whole thing was he's wearing 45 because he wanted to have 23 be the last time his dad saw him play was when he wore 23.

Speaker 1 And then Nick Anderson says one thing about him. He's like, fuck this.
I'm wearing 23.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. It's like, you know, what? It's sentimentality that only takes you so far in life.

Speaker 1 I'm immediately going back.

Speaker 2 Yeah, there's no way to win. You cannot win by talking shit to Michael Jordan.
It's just impossible. And the smart people don't talk shit to him.
I thought,

Speaker 2 so I was looking back at his minor league career a little bit and thinking not only it's impressive that he was able to do what he did in that short time period or period, but he was also six foot six, so his strike zone was fucking massive.

Speaker 2 So it made it that much more difficult on him. And if I was a pitcher, I definitely would have given up.

Speaker 2 I would have tried to serve him up a meatball because there's no easier way to get on Sports Center than just grooving one to Michael Jordan and have him take you 450 feet.

Speaker 1 Yep. Yep.
True. Facts.
What were you going to say, Hank?

Speaker 5 I was just going to say, not about the baseball, but the fact that the Space Jam dome was on a movie set, it means that there should be more footage from that.

Speaker 5 Like you always talk about the other, the new sports games, like putting up old footage. There should be, like, full games from those scrimmages.

Speaker 1 Unless MJ was betting so much on those games, he was like, don't put the cameras in here. Which he was probably betting so much on those games.
And

Speaker 1 that was such an awesome, like, to see all those guys out there,

Speaker 1 like, Ewing, Reggie Miller, Jawan Howard, like, everyone just showing up to play basketball in the middle of the summer.

Speaker 1 And what they don't realize is they're just giving Michael Jordan scouting reports so that he can kick their ass next the following year.

Speaker 5 Yeah, the other thing I was thinking during that is that, like, when LeBron tries to do that, no one, that's why, that's like, no one's going to come. He's just going to be like, oh, like, come out.

Speaker 5 I got this whole basketball. Like, come play with me.
And everyone's just like, yeah, no, like, I'm good.

Speaker 2 I like how he picked so many good players to go out there, and then he just picked Sean Bradley to come out so that everybody would be able to dunk on him. That was like the little icing on the cake.

Speaker 2 It's like, hey, I know I'm paying you for this movie, and I know it's going to be a long summer, but on the bright side, you're going to be able to teabag Sean Bradley three times a day.

Speaker 1 Yes, yes, yes. Sean Bradley looking so fucking skinny, dribbling down the court.
Oh, man.

Speaker 2 The Steve Kerr practice,

Speaker 2 that was a wild ride that we went on.

Speaker 2 It's like the only way that you can get Jordan to actually respect you as a teammate is if you let him punch you in the face and you come back the next day and let it be water under the bridge under the bridge and be like, you know what, you were right to hit me.

Speaker 2 I was doing too much. I pushed you in the chest.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's

Speaker 1 it also was notable that Steve Kerr said, I think he chose his words specifically for that one when he said the 96 team was the best team he's ever been a part of. Did you catch that?

Speaker 1 He did say that

Speaker 1 so, and I don't know when they filmed that. I would assume it was after the you know the 73-win Warriors, but it um yeah, I mean, Steve Kerr getting punched by MJ is like a

Speaker 1 moment that everyone talks about. I wish we had it on camera.
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 I feel like that it's obviously never good, but it also happens. Like, guys get testy and guys, you know, they're emotional.
If Scott Burrell wasn't such a nice,

Speaker 5 double or triple-digit times in his career.

Speaker 1 Right. If Scott Burrell wasn't such a nice guy, he would have fought MJ like 16 times.

Speaker 2 Right. I think it probably happens a lot more than we know about.
It just doesn't get talked about because teams have a tendency to keep things in-house. It happens all the time in football.

Speaker 2 I'm sure it happens all the time in basketball.

Speaker 2 If there was footage of that practice, we would probably, not to like say that there are elements of provocation on Steve Kerr's part, but that haircut that he had was asking to get hit in the face.

Speaker 2 That was like that. That's Karen walking into Mother's Day brunch with her Yelp app opened, ready to leave the server, bad review.

Speaker 2 Like, Steve Kerr was kind of asking to get hit when you're walking in wearing that mop.

Speaker 1 The other thing I wrote down a couple other notes about the

Speaker 1 retirement, obviously, there's the conspiracy theories that he was suspended. I think those are

Speaker 1 way overblown, but it's fun fun to talk about them, but they're not true. But it is funny.
There's a lot at play. I think MJ was already talking about how he might retire

Speaker 1 before, you know, in books before

Speaker 1 his dad died. So it was, and before the gambling stuff.
But it is funny, the idea that if you push a man who loves to gamble too far, he'll just quit everything.

Speaker 1 Like, don't tell a man he can't gamble. He'll just pack up and be like, nope, I'm out.

Speaker 2 He's probably stoked to get to Minor League Baseball and have way more teammates that he can win money off of in cards.

Speaker 1 Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 The iPad thing that the director does is fucking incredible. The Gary Payton scene was so good.

Speaker 1 It's just, it's great seeing these guys react, mostly MJ, react in real time to an interview they've never seen before. It's so, so good.
I hope every documentary does that from here on out.

Speaker 2 It's really good. And especially with MJ, just because anytime MJ looks at something on an iPad, it's an instant meme.

Speaker 2 People were saying that the Coach Doug's MJ laughing meme was one of the top five, like a Mount Rushmore meme of the entire existence of the internet. I didn't say that, but

Speaker 1 it's a sad state of affairs that

Speaker 1 you have to go back to trolling in the comments. Talk to me.
Give you clout. That's all.
Yeah, that's the best. You saying that's a good question.
I'm helping with promotion.

Speaker 2 I'm alley-ooping you. Yep.

Speaker 1 It does help with promotion.

Speaker 2 It does. It really does.

Speaker 1 Oh, big time.

Speaker 1 Big time helps with promotion. Everyone's going to go see that and be like, I got to go watch tomorrow night.

Speaker 2 It becomes more of a conversation around you losing to Baylor after you said that you were not even going to play Baylor because they were too bad.

Speaker 1 They are too bad. I shouldn't have lost that game.
I ate four donuts. I've already had the press conference.
We don't need to go back through this.

Speaker 2 One other thing about the Steve Kerr practice, I don't know if you noticed this, but the reason that Jordan actually felt bad and reached out to Steve Kerr is because Steve Kerr was the littlest guy on the court, and he hit that guy.

Speaker 2 That's why he reached out to apologize.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. So the only other thing I wrote down, which is crazy in retrospect,

Speaker 1 MJ coming back, his first game back against the Pacers was on a Sunday and it was actually the Sweet 16 round or no, it might have been the first round of the NCAA tournament.

Speaker 1 MJ did

Speaker 1 three times the NCAA tournament. Think about that.

Speaker 1 The NBA game in the middle of March did three times the NCAA tournament, so much so CBS had to do a make good for advertisers because they got so fucking roasted in viewership because MJ came back during March Madness.

Speaker 2 That is crazy. I did not know that.

Speaker 2 Crazy. What kind of make good did they do?

Speaker 1 They had to like give him more, you know, they had to like be like, we'll throw in more ads later on. Like he, they

Speaker 1 trounced him so bad. I think it was.

Speaker 2 They had to tell the refs, give MJ all the calls so it's a sweep so that the NCAA tournament gets more ratings next weekend.

Speaker 1 Yes. Well, this was the regular season.
This is MJ coming back in the regular season.

Speaker 1 It coincides with the Sunday of March Madness, and that event was so much bigger than March Madness, which is crazy just to think about anyone watching NBA in the middle of March over the tournament.

Speaker 2 And the I'm back facts that he sent to come back is... It's an all-timer.
There's only one person that could do that.

Speaker 2 I mean, you saw the headlines when he retired the first place, and they were just calling him

Speaker 2 Like, that was his name. It was just like air walks away from the game, and he comes back just by saying, I'm back.

Speaker 2 I think there's only one person in the history of sports that could pull that off, and that would probably be MJ. Like, Andrew Luck would write a 500-page book on

Speaker 2 architecture and bury it in the footnotes if he was coming back. Like,

Speaker 2 that's putting your nuts on the table and saying,

Speaker 2 I'm so big that everyone knows what I mean.

Speaker 1 How many retreats would that get if that was how he came back?

Speaker 2 The architecture book, book, the Andrew Luck Hungarian architecture book?

Speaker 1 No, you know what I'm asking.

Speaker 1 If MJ tweeted, I'm back instead of a press release, if it was today and it was given all the circumstances and everything was the same, everything was equal, and he had the same cultural relevancy and everything was equal.

Speaker 1 We just had Twitter.

Speaker 2 What's crazy is it would probably get

Speaker 2 5 million retweets, but it would also probably get 6 million replies. It would be the all-time biggest number of replies, so it would technically be a a ratio.

Speaker 1 Norman Chad, oh, let's talk about that. Okay, so

Speaker 1 yeah, I think that's everything we had for this

Speaker 1 episode 7-8, but we have a shitload more coming with Tim Grover in a minute. So we had a great interview with Tim Grover, MJ's trainer.

Speaker 1 We talk about him playing baseball, we talk about him coming back, his competitive desire, great stories, and also the flu game. So that's all coming up.

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Speaker 1 Okay, let's do it. Let's do it.
Who's back of the week? Hank, why don't you start?

Speaker 5 I have a bunch of who's back of the weeks. My first one is Barstool and the Roger Goodell relationship.

Speaker 5 Our boss, Dave Portnoy, who was the leader, the person who led us to get arrested at NFL headquarters for Tom Brady. has had many outspoken words about Roger Goodell.

Speaker 2 He won the auction to watch a Monday Night Football game with roger giddell in his living room i don't i cannot understand how the nfl like let it get to this point but they did and i am very curious to see how it's going to play out from here so this goes back to me saying that gadell doesn't have any friends because he doesn't um i think that it would be it'd be hilarious if roger giddell wanted to look like a normal person he should wear a clown shirt with dave's face on it because dave is going to wear the clown shirt with goodell's face on it and they sit down and wouldn't it'd be fucking wild if they became like great friends

Speaker 5 I just can't see it getting to that point I can't

Speaker 1 okay so yeah do you think this is actually going to happen

Speaker 5 I can't no I think they're going to figure out a technicality right but what is that how like that's where it's like the nfl if they had gotten out of it before the bidding ended then it kind of probably would have like washed over but the fact that he won like the contest is over it was open for like two weeks it's not like he snuck in at the last minute like he was outwardly bidding on it like two weeks ago.

Speaker 5 The contest ended and he won.

Speaker 1 Like Dave has between a rough business. That's like a shitload of money.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because if Goodell tries to get out of it at all, what it becomes is he's taking money away from charity. If he gives it to the second highest bidder, he's taking money out.

Speaker 2 I don't even know what charity it's going to. Probably like the Roger Goodell Kids Club for kids that will promote Roger Goodell.
But whatever it is,

Speaker 2 it's actually hurting someone that needs help. So I don't know what he's going to do.
Like, does he technically have a restraining order against Dave?

Speaker 1 I don't think so, but yeah, he's kind of stuck. Although, here is what he could do is he could just be like, all right, I'm going to do it,

Speaker 1 but the terms of service show that you cannot bring any cameras. You can't document it.
Like, we'll take a picture, but you can't record me. And that would be the ultimate.

Speaker 1 If Dave just had to sit with Cadell with no content being made, that's actually the ultimate own back on Dave.

Speaker 1 Being like, you just have to sit with this miserable person for an entire night and listen to him talk and sit in his weird sweaters and comfy chair, and you can't make content out of it.

Speaker 1 That would kill Dave. That would be amazing.

Speaker 5 I don't think Goodell has the balls to do that, though.

Speaker 2 Oh, I think his goons do. Roger Goodell's goons will absolutely play that card on him, and they'll like check him and stuff for cameras.
But, I mean, Dave will never agree to that.

Speaker 2 If anything, Dave will say that he agrees to it and then wear some sort of like hidden camera or some secret way of documenting it.

Speaker 2 There's no chance that Dave just like signs up to go have bro time in the man cave with our dog. So I think that I think that there's going to be

Speaker 2 a real meeting of the minds here to see who can outsmart who going into this.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's worth it from Dave's perspective. Like the amount of content he's going to ring out of this, it's a huge win.
I don't care how much money he paid for it.

Speaker 2 He's going to get massive returns on it.

Speaker 1 Yes, big time.

Speaker 1 Hank, you got another one?

Speaker 5 I got a couple other ones. I'll give you.

Speaker 5 Do you want both of them or do you want just one?

Speaker 1 Do whatever you want.

Speaker 5 My luck.

Speaker 5 One of my other who's back, 6ix9ine.

Speaker 5 He got out of jail. Takashi6ix9.
You guys remember him? He was in jail for snitching. He got out of jail.

Speaker 5 The previous record all time for Instagram live viewers was like Drake and Tori Lane's had like 300,000.

Speaker 5 6ix9ine got out of jail, went on Instagram live, and had 2 million people watching him, like, immediately. So he smashed the record, put out a new song, and he's just like out living life as a snitch.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Takashi Snick's 9, he's out. He's back in the limelight.
I listened to a podcast about him that documented his whole life,

Speaker 2 starting when he was just getting into the rap game and then ending when he went to prison. And this dude is so good at self-promotion.
He's so good at it.

Speaker 2 But the only downside to it is he's addicted to going live.

Speaker 2 He goes live when he's about to commit crimes. And as somebody who's on the run from people that are looking for him, I think that's going to be his downfall.

Speaker 2 It's going to be like an Earl Thomas and his wife situation. If you want to get 6'9, all you have to do is is just go on Snapchat and his little avatar is going to be popped up wherever he is.

Speaker 5 300,000 versus 2 million is insane, though. Like, that's actually crazy.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That is crazy. He's just a great troll, right? Like, that's as far as I understand is he's one of the greatest trolls we've ever had.

Speaker 2 Basically. He's just trolling people, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, more or less.

Speaker 1 Sometimes.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 He's trolling them to kill him. Right.
Like, you won't kill me.

Speaker 2 He's like, you mad. He gets shot.
The guy guy comes up to him and like takes his wallet off him. He's like, You mad?

Speaker 1 Yeah, you won't kill me. Prove it.

Speaker 2 I'm actually laughing right now.

Speaker 5 My third who's back of the week is Jamie Foxx. So there's been like a few viral videos that came out this weekend that I watch and like kind of refresh people's memory on how funny Jamie Foxx was.

Speaker 5 I guess there's a Mike Tyson biopic, which is coming out with starring him. And he was on, I forget which ESPN show, but he was on an ESPN show, like, and he described the first scene in detail.

Speaker 5 And it was the best trailer that you could ever have ever.

Speaker 5 It was the most descriptive, eloquently spoken, like way to talk about the movie that you could ever have.

Speaker 2 I mean, I'm in for it. Some of Jamie Foxx's best roles have been when he's way, way, way deep in character as somebody like Ray Charles or

Speaker 2 the boxing promoter, the trainer for,

Speaker 2 was it Ali?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Yes, he did the Ali movie, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 He's, yeah, and he had that clip go viral where it's like, oh, yeah, he's awesome at all these impressions.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, he went and he met with Muhammad Ali and did the impression of his old manager, a trainer, whoever the character was. And Ali was like, holy shit,

Speaker 2 this is him. So, yeah, I'm in for that big time.

Speaker 1 All right, PFT, what do you got?

Speaker 2 My who's back of the week is tuning into weird Periscope feeds during pay-per-view events because I was too lazy to actually purchase the event.

Speaker 2 And to my credit, ESPN Plus made it very difficult to buy UFC this weekend. So sports is back.
That's actually number one. Live Sports is back.
Dan White put on the event.

Speaker 2 It was a pretty good card, some good fights on there. But I was trying to buy the fight on the app, and it just wouldn't let me.
So I was like, fuck it, I'm going to go Periscope slumming again.

Speaker 2 And I joined all these different feeds, and they were filled with people that were like taking the feeds hostage, turning the camera back on themselves, and saying, I'm not going to show the fight again until I get like a thousand subscribers to my TikTok.

Speaker 2 And then once he did, he would put the camera back on the fight. those are so pure i love those so much

Speaker 1 that's i mean that's that's craft smart

Speaker 1 yeah that's a smart way to promote i mean that's he probably gained a lot of tick tock followers that he's now going to make magic with yep

Speaker 1 um yeah they were good fights they were good fights it was good to have that back although it's so it is very weird just watching like the end the entrances in an empty arena and hearing the you know every single word that's said because it's so quiet it's it's a bizarre bizarre feeling.

Speaker 2 I didn't think that the strikes weren't as loud as I was anticipating. I was thinking that they were going to be earshots.

Speaker 2 Maybe it's because I was watching on a periscope through some guy's Motorola razor of his TV across the room. But it didn't seem like they were as loud as I was expecting.

Speaker 2 Normally, in an MMA fight, I guess it's because they have the mics right there in the octagon. You can already hear them pretty loudly.

Speaker 1 Yes. All right, My Who's Back.
I have two. The first is Norman Chad because he wrote...
Actually, it's the ratio. I'm not going to give him fucking, I'm not even going to tip my cap to him.

Speaker 1 The ratio, because he had, Norman Chad did have an article that he wrote that said, the pandemic has reminded us we don't need more sports in our lives. We need less.

Speaker 1 This guy sucks, huh?

Speaker 2 Norm Chad. Yep.

Speaker 1 He sucks. I don't even know what's his, I didn't read it.
I just got mad at the headline and moved on.

Speaker 1 I think that that's a lot more of a mature thing to do than to actually read what his point is and try to understand understand what he's trying to say. Oh, did everyone read it? Oh, you did read it?

Speaker 1 What was he trying to say?

Speaker 2 Somehow, the article was worse than the headline, if you can believe that.

Speaker 2 Like, Norm Chad, if you don't know anything about him, he's a guy that announces poker sometimes, like the World Series of Poker on ESPN. He is, he's somebody that Rick Riley would ratio.

Speaker 2 That's how bad of a writer he is. He writes nothing but like ex-wife jokes.
His article had like six different asides to it where he went off on these weird tangents.

Speaker 2 The thesis of it, if you can call it one, was sometimes you have dinner with your family members when there isn't as much sports on TV.

Speaker 1 Okay. That's it.
That's it. Cool, dude.
Fuck him, man. Fuck that.

Speaker 1 And then my other who's back is Duke. Duke Basketball's back.

Speaker 1 Zion Williamson's former marketing agent has served requests for admission in their lawsuit asking him to admit that he received money benefits, favors of other things of value to attend Duke University.

Speaker 5 Cloud Chaser.

Speaker 1 Oh, really?

Speaker 5 Yeah, I don't get why Adidas was mentioned.

Speaker 1 It's not even in Adidas's school.

Speaker 2 Well, they're saying the money was contingent on him going to either a Nike or Adidas school. So I guess leaving out all those.

Speaker 5 Oh, so she's basically just made up the most general accusation you could have and is going for.

Speaker 1 Oh, she are you denying it? Are you putting your life on it?

Speaker 5 Yeah, have you ever heard the term innocent until proven guilty?

Speaker 1 Duke's never cheated.

Speaker 2 She's cloud chasing, yeah.

Speaker 1 Hmm. Interesting.
Interesting.

Speaker 1 I happen to believe all women, Hank.

Speaker 5 It has nothing to do with, you know, nothing to do with that.

Speaker 2 It sounds like it might.

Speaker 1 Sounds like you got yourself a little bit of a pickle here.

Speaker 2 It's funny because the first time Hank recorded this before he demanded we go back and redo it, he was like, I just don't trust females.

Speaker 1 What the fuck? What the fuck?

Speaker 1 By the way, a quick aside, Hank,

Speaker 1 is

Speaker 1 tell me what happened in your house when Stu Feiner decided to send a naked picture to all of us as a joke text message on I think Saturday morning or Friday morning?

Speaker 5 It was crazy because I think I asked like my phone was charging. I was like, Rhea, can you grab my phone and like bring it over here? And she did and I was like going through it.

Speaker 5 And then the first message I opened up was like a naked picture. So she was standing right there and she was like, what is that? And I was just like, oh, it's Stu Feiner.
She was just like, what?

Speaker 5 What the fuck? Like, what does he text you? And then she just scrolled up and was just like, I was like, I don't know. It's Stu Feiner.
Like, what do you want me to say?

Speaker 1 It's just so funny that Stu Feiner is going to get everyone in trouble because he sends, he basically sends, he does the forward all email, but on text message. At 8.30 in the morning.

Speaker 1 Yeah, at 8.30 in the morning, you get a text message. You're like, okay.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 Yeah, it was like a naked picture that you had to zoom in on a certain part to read the message. One of those classic gags.

Speaker 2 Classic Stu.

Speaker 2 Stu is a great excuse if you ever need a reason why you're looking at a naked picture on your phone. Just label every single contact in your phone as Stu Finer.

Speaker 2 So if you ever get an accidental nude, it's like, oh, it's from Stu.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. Before we get to MJ's trainer, Tim Grover, great interview coming up.
I'm not going back to college to be your friend. I'm going so I can get Uber One for students.

Speaker 1 It saves you on Uber and Uber Eats. I'm there for $0 delivery fee on cheeseburgers, up to 10% off smoothies, and 6% Uber credits back on rides.

Speaker 1 Just to be clear, I'm there for savings, not whatever you think college is for get uber one for students a membership to save on uber and uber eats with deals this good everyone wants to be a student join for just 4.99 a month savings may vary eligibility and member terms apply okay here he is mj's trainer tim grover

Speaker 1 okay we now welcome on a very special guest it is tim grover ceo of attack athletics he is uh the trainer for michael jordan was a trainer for michael Jordan, trained a ton of really, really great NBA players.

Speaker 1 Obviously, we've been talking about the last dance. It's been taking over the country.

Speaker 1 So we thought it'd be great to have you on, talk about MJ, talk about what your approach is.

Speaker 1 And let's start right there. Let's start with your introduction to Michael Jordan.
I've obviously read a bunch about him, but you first see him by giving him a 30, he gives you a 30-day trial.

Speaker 1 Says, you get 30 days to prove your worth. At what point in those 30 days do you think he bought into what you were doing?

Speaker 8 Oh, the first week, you know, and the reason it was, is I was telling him how his body was going to feel physically and mentally

Speaker 8 after each workout, after each day. I say, hey, this is what's going to feel sore.
This is what's going to be tight. You know, pay a little attention to that.

Speaker 8 When you go to practice, notice these different things. So I was kind of already telling him how he was going to feel

Speaker 8 before he actually felt it and the more I was able to do that the more he had trust in me and knowing what I was doing but obviously as you start to see the results and the results you guys know from working out unfortunately the results don't come from the outside in they go from the inside out so they take a little while to actually physically show

Speaker 8 But you can actually start feeling yourself getting in better condition. You can feel yourself getting stronger.

Speaker 8 And the one thing we put a lot of emphasis on, listen, I don't care how explosive an athlete is you know how well they can do what they do he or she if you're constantly getting injured you're not you're not doing yourself any good and you're not doing anybody else any good so the first thing we always address with any of the clients we deal with is to make sure that their body is in balance to to play whatever particular sport they're playing at injury free now now before you were introduced to mj was he training at all besides playing basketball you know what he the obviously the Bulls have somebody.

Speaker 8 They had a full-time strength and conditioning coach. And for whatever reason, I don't know if Michael didn't buy into the program or he just didn't feel it was for him.
But I know what he...

Speaker 8 So when I got to him,

Speaker 8 obviously his athletic ability was off the charts. His strength level wasn't as good as where I'd like it to be.
So you could tell that. There wasn't really a consistent workout program behind it.

Speaker 8 And it was maybe because I know what he wanted. He wanted somebody that was dedicated to him and his body, not somebody that was putting a program for a whole team.

Speaker 8 He wanted to have the flexibility of being able to work out on his schedule and a program designed for his abilities, the way he played, the way he flew, the way he did everything.

Speaker 2 I've always wondered when it comes to something that requires a lot of fine motor coordination, like shooting a basketball, it's all about the rhythm.

Speaker 2 It's all about getting a routine that you're comfortable with, doing the same thing every single time.

Speaker 2 When you add in weight training to that, when you're making, you know, somebody's triceps or shoulder or forearm a lot stronger, how do you make sure that the shot doesn't get affected along the way?

Speaker 8 Well, here, that's a great point. Well, the shot is going to get affected.
So that's one thing.

Speaker 8 And I've always told him that that was probably one of his hesitations of not starting a conditioning weight training program because like, man, I'm sure, what is this going to do to my, what is this going to do to my touch?

Speaker 8 Because shooting the basketball is a fine motor movement.

Speaker 8 And I told him this was going to happen so what we did was after he would work out there were certain drills that i would have him if we were if we worked out and we had access to a basketball court there were certain things that he would do afterwards if if we didn't there were certain things i would have him do in the house with the bat with the basketball just so he could kind of still get those fine motor movements into place and i told him i just said listen

Speaker 8 you have to stay with this because what's going to happen is your body's going to adjust now

Speaker 8 if you don't give it enough time for your body to adjust, your strength level is going to get up to a certain point. All right.
And then it's going to drop again.

Speaker 8 Then you have to make a readjustment in your shot. So let's consistently do this.
And yes, your shot is going to be off, but it's only going to be off for a short period of time.

Speaker 8 It'll be off for less than a week.

Speaker 1 So I think I know the answer to the next question I'm going to ask, but I'm going to ask it anyway.

Speaker 1 You had a part in the documentary where you say, you know, when I would tell Michael to do eight reps, he would do 12.

Speaker 1 Was there ever a time, ever a day where MJ didn't give 100% in a workout where he's like, I'm not feeling it today?

Speaker 8 Yeah, I mean, well, you know, listen, you have your best workouts when you're not feeling it.

Speaker 8 You know, it's just like what the so-called flu game, you know, when an athlete is sick, they always end up performing at a higher level because, you know, mentally

Speaker 8 they're more focused. You know, he's a human.

Speaker 8 People might not believe this, but he's actually, he is a human being. Yeah.

Speaker 8 Even though he might not play it. So, you know, we all have those days, but they were far and few in between, far and few in between.

Speaker 8 I mean, he'd come up, you know, our workouts were anywhere from five any time to 5 a.m., 6 a.m., or 7 a.m. Majority of the time, by the time I got to the house, he was already ready.

Speaker 8 He was already to go. But there were a few times when I walked in the house and, you know, rang the bell, sit down for him in the weight room.
He'd look at me, he says, not this, MF again.

Speaker 8 Yeah, well, we got to do it, you know?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 but it was not like it was never like he was just like i don't feel like i don't feel like doing this today right you know there were days that i did need to push him a little bit more but those were far and few in between how do you manage somebody like michael who uh is ultra competitive probably has a big ego for you know a well-justified big ego because he is such a great player how do you go in and say this is what you need to correct without you know without pushing him away because he's like fuck this guy coming in and telling me what to do Well, you know what?

Speaker 8 That's the one thing I've always learned. It's funny.
And

Speaker 8 look at any business. Look how successful you guys are.

Speaker 8 The more successful an individual is, actually, the more they're open to feedback, criticism, coaching, and so forth because they want to get better.

Speaker 8 They want to get better, but they can decipher between somebody that's bullshitting them and somebody that's actually

Speaker 8 telling them the truth. So, you know, with him, it was like

Speaker 8 gaining his trust, but also understanding, giving him what he wanted. So the plan was designed around him.
I didn't come in and say, hey, this is what I need you to do.

Speaker 8 This is how it's going to be done. Michael,

Speaker 8 what are your weak areas? What do you want to improve?

Speaker 8 What do you want to get stronger in? Do you want to jump higher? Do you want to move laterally quicker?

Speaker 8 What are the...

Speaker 8 areas on your body that constantly get injured and let me develop the program around that. So feedback is always important.
You can't come in with these guys and

Speaker 8 pretend like you are the show. I'm not the show.
I'm a person there to help him and let him excel at a higher level. The better he plays, the better I look.
The worse he performs,

Speaker 8 the worse I look. And I always knew that who the star was, and my job was to make that star shine longer and brighter.

Speaker 1 So you have,

Speaker 1 you know, you've written books. You have a theory about the different types of athletes and their mentality.

Speaker 1 You call it closers, coolers, and uh the last cleaners can you explain to people what the difference is between those three groups and also can you go from one group to another no question and you know what it's funny

Speaker 8 i always like to use if appropriate i always like to use examples of the people i'm doing the show with all right when you guys first started this show it was like

Speaker 8 what are these two guys doing what is this going to happen all right so a cooler is an individual that does the average so you give them a job to do they're gonna deliver the minimal result if you tell them to make 10 phone calls in an hour and they make 10 phone calls in 40 minutes they're not gonna make phone call 11 12 13 14 you told them to make 10 they're gonna make 10 they're gonna make 10 phone calls all right

Speaker 8 a closer is an individual that gets you that end result over and over again as long as very too many variables aren't thrown at them cleaners

Speaker 8 get that end result over and over again so they figure stuff out no matter what's thrown on what's thrown at them and they get that end result numerous times over and over and over again the a part of a cleaner's uh mentality is to constantly never be satisfied when something is done they move on to what's next i love it so who's it who are the cleaners you've worked with because i'd imagine it's not that big of a group No, it's not.

Speaker 8 You know,

Speaker 8 I've been fortunate enough to work with

Speaker 8 hundreds and hundreds of professional athletes. Obviously, the two biggest ones that I've had are Michael and Kobe.
I would put Dwayne Wade in that category too.

Speaker 8 But I've also had other cleaners in different, in those same sports that

Speaker 8 excelled at one thing. You know, I had Tony Allen was

Speaker 8 a professional basketball player. He had, you know, won championships with the Celtics.
This guy was a defensive specialist. I mean, Kobe said this was he was the hardest guy to score on.

Speaker 8 So his mentality, even though he didn't have it on the offensive side, he had it on the defensive side. He was a cleaner from

Speaker 8 a defensive standpoint. You know, there's different coaches.
So there are positions.

Speaker 8 There are even practice players that they know they're never going to play, but their job is to make everybody else in practice the best that they can be.

Speaker 8 So it's finding your niche and doing it better than anybody else.

Speaker 2 Were there ever any times when you're working with a player individually and you can sense that there's some friction between the coach of that team, you know, maybe not being super happy that one of their star players is working with their own person on the side, kind of like you see, you know, it was reported up in New England with Tom Brady with his TB12 method that there was maybe some butting of heads going on inside Patriot Place.

Speaker 8 Yeah, oh, listen, anytime anytime an outside individual comes in there's always going to be some friction there's always going to be some tension you know i was able to alleviate some of that not a whole lot with the chicago bulls but with the other teams because i would always get the coaching staff involved i would always get their athletic trainers i would always get their strength and conditioning people involved i was like listen you tell me what

Speaker 8 you're looking for, the end result you want to get out of these out of this athlete and let me be an extension of you so that way we all win in this together you know i'm not the person that's out there trying to be the star i want to just get the job done because if the athlete is performing at the highest level we all win but yeah is there going to be some friction is there going to be some jealousy they're all they're all there always is but i try to alleviate that as much as possible by getting the uh by keeping the team notified about what i'm doing and always allowing them to say hey listen i don't have any secrets.

Speaker 8 You want to come in and see what I'm doing? Come in and see what I'm doing. You want me to add an exercise here? You want me to change an exercise here?

Speaker 8 I'll be more than happy to incorporate it in there as long as it's beneficial to who we're working with.

Speaker 1 So you were obviously around MJ for 15 years plus years. I'm sure you're...
You're on homework.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 1 you're a famous trainer. There's not many famous trainers out there.

Speaker 8 And

Speaker 8 you're a Chicago Bulls, guy.

Speaker 1 I know it. Yeah, I mean, it's been bad for the last since Michael, but yeah.
It's been very bad.

Speaker 1 Yes. So, so

Speaker 1 you, you, but you were around him for so long. I'm sure you have a million stories of, you know, this whole entire documentary is showing his insane competitive drive.

Speaker 1 What are a couple of the little things that he might have done, whether it be to someone else or with himself, that that was like, that's the killer in MJ?

Speaker 8 Well, you know what? It was funny that everybody talked, you know, obviously he's he's legendary for about his trash talking, but it was so many times he did his trash talking to motivate himself.

Speaker 8 It was like, it wasn't to get into the other players' head, it was to get into his head. But I mean, there's so many stories.

Speaker 8 I remember when we were in, when they had a franchise in Vancouver, you know, Vancouver Grizzlies.

Speaker 8 They were going, I think it was a game and it was a back-to-back. And they were playing, and we were, the Bulls were down like maybe 12, 14 points with like three minutes to go in the game.

Speaker 8 And Derek Martin, who was a bench player

Speaker 8 for Vancouver, said something to Michael off the bench.

Speaker 8 And then Michael just Michael just looked at him and literally scored like the next 17 straight points

Speaker 8 and went over to Derek, says,

Speaker 8 You're barely in the league. Shut the fuck up.

Speaker 8 And the next day, what was it? What was funny funny about that story is

Speaker 8 the grizzlies

Speaker 8 actually wave and cut derek the next day because they were like why did you wake the sleeping dog up just let him let him sleep then there was another game against i think it was a minute uh minnesota and sam mitchell sam mitchell was the coach and they had never beaten the bulls And they were up by like seven or nine points with like maybe a minute to go.

Speaker 8 And Sam said something to Michael. He said, you know, we finally got you.
And Michael looked at Sam and said, I haven't even started to play yet.

Speaker 8 You know, how competitive he was at practice. I mean, it was just, it was crazy.

Speaker 8 I mean, I mentioned this in the book, Relentless, where he had just played a game and he had played like some crazy amount of minutes, 44 minutes or something. And they had practice the next day.

Speaker 8 And he's looking around and he's looking for one of the players on the team, Scott Burrell. He's like, where's Scott? And Scott, one of the trainers said, you know, Scott's in a training room.

Speaker 8 And he tells Phil, hold on. So he goes into the training room and Scott's laying down on the table.
He literally takes the training table and flips it over.

Speaker 8 All right, Scott goes onto the ground and he's literally, he's literally in Scott's face and saying, you know, UMF, I just played 44 minutes. You didn't even play yesterday.

Speaker 8 If I can get my ass out there to practice, you need to come out there right now. And Lily carried Scott out onto the the

Speaker 8 practice for it. And this was not to get, you know, he wasn't pissed off at Scott for being lazy.
It was more like, listen, I'm going to need you

Speaker 8 at some point. I'm going to need you at least one game to win this championship down the line.
So if you're taking shortcuts now, you're going to end up taking shortcuts later.

Speaker 8 So the way he held everyone accountable, those stories are legendary.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So that type of mentality, I can see how that would produce results and how you're elevating the play of people around you you to a certain extent.

Speaker 2 But also, I noticed, you know, during this Scotty Pippen migraine game, Michael Jordan has such a tough mentality that I don't know if a guy like him has empathy in his head and can understand, like, hey, maybe this guy is actually really hurt.

Speaker 2 Maybe he's dealing with something that you just can't will yourself through. Did you ever have to like soften Michael up and be like, hey, Michael, maybe take it easy here.

Speaker 2 Push and put, know when to push, know when to pull on certain guys?

Speaker 8 That I let him do.

Speaker 8 you know what he did notice is if players weren't physically performing at the highest level he would kind of he would kind of have me talk to them and say hey listen you know like ron harper ron harper when he played with the cleveland cavaliers was an exceptional player and then he had uh acl surgery and he didn't quite recover they didn't do his rehab correctly so when he got to the bulls ron wasn't moving the way he should have been moving um so he asked me to kind of work with ron and get get get him go get him going back But yeah, you know what?

Speaker 8 It's funny.

Speaker 8 When you have that mentality,

Speaker 8 you're able to push yourself through so many things. You just expect others to do that.

Speaker 8 So you're like, if I'm going to be the hardest working player in practice, all right, if I'm going to be the hardest working player in the game, I'm not expecting you to perform at the same level I'm performing at, but I need you to perform at the highest level possible.

Speaker 8 So he had this mentality like, if I put on my jersey, if I put on my practice jersey or I put on my game jersey, don't ask me about my health. I'm 100%.

Speaker 8 You know, like when you guys show up at the studio and you do what you're supposed to do, all right, everybody, they're expecting 100%. They're expecting the show that everybody listens to.

Speaker 8 you know all the millions of subscribers you have on there they don't they don't give a shit how you're feeling yeah they don't care they don't care how much you drank last night what you did, all that other stuff.

Speaker 8 They're like, listen, you took our time. We need you to perform.
We need you to perform at the highest level. And I can guarantee it.

Speaker 8 There's not, you can't tell me every single day you come into the studio, you're like,

Speaker 8 you're on your A game. A lot of times you just bring A game, but you have to change that A game into your A game.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 Big guys got bit by a dog one time. And he came in and we're like, you know what? We got to step this up.

Speaker 2 Sometimes you got to lift your teammates up. Yeah.

Speaker 8 You can't tell me that you're not as competitive in what you do as Michael is. You guys just don't want to win the ratings.

Speaker 8 You want to beat whoever the hell is number two, number three, number four, number 50. There's a big difference between just winning and beating somebody.

Speaker 8 You guys want to beat the competition, but in order to do that, your mentality has to be different than everybody else.

Speaker 1 I love this part of the podcast where you're complimenting us. It feels very nice.

Speaker 8 Well, you guys earned it. You guys earned it.

Speaker 8 I'm not here to stroke you guys.

Speaker 8 If you didn't, I wouldn't be saying this shit. I'd be like, man, who are these fucking problems I'm listening to?

Speaker 8 You guys earned

Speaker 8 what you went through, and it wasn't easy.

Speaker 1 I appreciate that. I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 Knowing that MJ would react to people doubting him or saying trash talking to him, would you ever make stuff up and tell him, like, hey, like, I heard through the grapevine that this guy thinks he's as good as you?

Speaker 8 Never needed, never needed, because you know what? Back then,

Speaker 8 all the media and everything was

Speaker 8 focused on him. So

Speaker 8 he would never listen to those things, but he knew what people were saying. You know, obviously in the last episode

Speaker 8 that they just did, you know, people were comparing him to Clyde Drexler. And he just came out and he said, you know, I took offense to that.

Speaker 8 He's not in the same league. And he just went out.
He went out and showed it. He will never show it.

Speaker 8 He would never show it in his face, but he knew who his he knew who his competition was you know he knew that that other players like patrick ewing carl malone charles charles barkley reggie reggie miller you know jon starks all these individuals that were out there that were that were going after that were going after his

Speaker 8 after his crown yeah and he was like they can you can speak all you want listen

Speaker 8 the one thing we all know the one thing that's never gone up in in price and is never going to go up in price is talk. Talk is always cheap.
It's going to be cheap.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 8 You don't pay for talk. You pay for the end result.
The information, it's funny. You guys give individuals information.
I gave Michael information. I give my clients information.

Speaker 8 What you do with that information

Speaker 8 is the price that you have to pay.

Speaker 1 when

Speaker 8 I didn't have to give Michael the information of trash talking and so forth. He held himself accountable

Speaker 8 to himself more than anybody else ever would. And that's also a big distinction between a closer and a cleaner.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 8 A cleaner

Speaker 8 holds himself more accountable than anybody else will ever hold him or her accountable. A closer will be like, eh, somebody else needs to hold me a little bit accountable.
All right.

Speaker 8 He held himself more accountable to his training, the end result that he was giving, everything.

Speaker 2 Can you look at somebody, an athlete in particular, and say, this guy is not a winner?

Speaker 1 Bad body language.

Speaker 8 It was funny. I've actually turned away more business than I actually take in.
You know, everybody tells you the right thing. It's just like in basketball, in football, in baseball, whatever sport.

Speaker 8 In basketball, everybody wants to sit in that first seat. Everybody wants to take that last shot.
Everybody wants to be that closing pitcher.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 8 Everybody wants to be that quarterback or receiver or that running back, you know, that gets the ball at the end until you actually get the ball.

Speaker 1 Right. Yeah.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 8 Everybody wants to sit in those two seats until they have to sit in those two seats. Pressure is a privilege, but most people run.
from that privilege.

Speaker 1 I like that. I like that saying a lot.
So we're going to run this on Monday, and we haven't seen, we didn't get the, we're not big enough J journalists to get the, you know, the pre-tapes.

Speaker 1 So, but we're assuming seven and eight are going to be a lot about Michael's transition to baseball, coming back from baseball.

Speaker 1 At what point when he makes that decision, because it was pretty much right before the season, what point did you know that he was like, he's going to walk away?

Speaker 1 Like, he doesn't have the same feeling right now about this upcoming season that he's had in the past.

Speaker 8 You know what? It was funny. Right after

Speaker 8 they won that championship, they won that third championship.

Speaker 8 He never said anything, but you could just feel

Speaker 8 that the joy wasn't there. Like, you know, you went through so much to

Speaker 8 win that championship. It was more of a relief than it was a joyous occasion.

Speaker 8 You know, and the one thing I've always said about these great athletes is they celebrate hard, but they don't celebrate long.

Speaker 8 It was more of a relief that they wanted, and I knew something wasn't right. And he would usually tell me, Hey, this is the time we're going to start working out again.

Speaker 8 And there was no communication there. So I did not know what he was going to do or when he was going to do it.

Speaker 8 But, you know, obviously he did

Speaker 8 what he did. And I am privileged to see what the next, I got a little preview of what seven's going to be about.
Unfortunately, I can't share it with you guys, but

Speaker 8 it's going to be taken

Speaker 8 a lot about the baseball stuff. It's just like, you know, you got, everyone gets to a certain point that

Speaker 8 you don't love 100% of your job. Listen, I guarantee there's not

Speaker 8 a single individual. I love when everybody says, you got to love everything, you got to love everything about what you do.

Speaker 8 There's not a single person in this world that loves 100% of everything they do.

Speaker 8 There's some things that just fucking suck.

Speaker 8 It just sounds good to be that way. Now, when you have those sucking things more than the enjoyment things,

Speaker 8 then it's time to start

Speaker 8 looking somewhere else. I mean, you see most successful individuals in a place that just said, I'm not going to do this anymore.
And you're like, why are they not doing this? They got all these fans.

Speaker 8 They got all this money. They got all this stuff.
It's just, you know what?

Speaker 8 A cleaner knows when it's time to walk away.

Speaker 1 I love that

Speaker 1 thought, too, because

Speaker 1 we have a dream job and I love my job. But of course, there's things that suck.
And it's weird because people don't understand. Like, of course, there's things that suck.

Speaker 1 The love far outweighs the suck, but it's crazy to be like, oh, yeah, I love working all the time no matter what.

Speaker 8 Yeah. And you know what? That just sounds good.
That just may, you know, it's just like, I love these people that come out and say, oh, I only sleep three hours a day. You know, that's it.

Speaker 8 It lasts bullshit. Your body cannot function at optimum level on three hours of

Speaker 8 sleep a day. You may sleep one or two days out of a week where you only sleep

Speaker 8 three hours, but you know, those stories sound, but oh man, every single day I work 18 hours. You got to continue to grind and all this other stuff.
I'm tired of all that cliche bullshit because

Speaker 8 it's just a way to sell stuff. That's all it is.

Speaker 2 So when Jordan goes out and he starts playing baseball, he struggles a little bit. Did you hit him up? Were you like, hey, I think I can help you with your swing?

Speaker 8 I don't do anything with the mechanics part, but I was the individual that did continue to do the training part with him in the baseball. And there's a lot of that.

Speaker 8 There's a whole big segue that's going to go in there. The big thing I had told him was, listen, the muscles used in basketball are the complete opposite that are used in baseball.

Speaker 8 All right, so I'll give you an example.

Speaker 8 Michael played in the, he was right, he was a right fielder, if I remember, if I remember correctly.

Speaker 8 So when you shoot a basketball, okay, the idea is to put a certain amount of arc on the ball so you can use the whole circumference of the rib.

Speaker 8 All right, so you have to train your back muscles, your shoulder muscles, your arm muscles, your wrist muscles

Speaker 8 in a different way.

Speaker 8 When you throw a baseball from

Speaker 8 right field, center field, left field, in,

Speaker 8 you have to have as little arc on it as possible because it has to get from point A to point B.

Speaker 8 So the training to throw a baseball is completely different than the training to shoot a basketball.

Speaker 2 Interesting. So, one thing that we talk about on the show a lot is the clutch gene.
We're obsessed with synthesizing and discovering the clutch gene. Some athletes are very, very good under pressure.

Speaker 2 Others are notoriously very bad under pressure. To you, is there a way that you can build the clutch gene in somebody that might not have it?

Speaker 8 Yes, I'm a firm believer

Speaker 8 the clutch gene is something

Speaker 8 that's in all of us, but majority of the individuals are afraid to wake it up. They're afraid to use it, you know, because the pressure and the work ethic and the dedication that you have to do

Speaker 8 to wake that clutch gene up and have it perform at the highest level over and over and over again, most people. don't have the mental

Speaker 8 discipline to do that over and over again. And to be in the zone and be able to have that clutch gene, thinking is actually a distraction.

Speaker 8 But here's a caveat to that. It takes years and years and years of thinking

Speaker 8 not to be able to think.

Speaker 2 So it sounds like it's a lot of hard work that goes into, like, it's actually not just having a clutch gene. Right.

Speaker 2 The clutch gene is really just being supremely confident in all the work that you've put in ahead of time.

Speaker 8 Exactly.

Speaker 8 You don't make that game-winning shot you don't make that game winning shot in the game you've made it a hundred times in practice you've made it other times before before you know you guys don't have this this show of yours and the success that it happened all right it's happened through all the times and effort and stuff you put in before to get to this point now to show that one percent gain

Speaker 8 is the difference between

Speaker 8 being great and being unstoppable And that's where you guys need to go next.

Speaker 1 You guys are great.

Speaker 8 Now you need to get to unstoppable.

Speaker 2 Isn't there a shortcut, though? Like, can't you put on a Copperfit bracelet or wear one of those fighting necklaces? And then all of a sudden you can't be knocked off balance.

Speaker 2 You've seen the infomercials.

Speaker 8 Oh, my goodness. It's unbelievable.
You know what?

Speaker 8 A couple of times when I've seen, you know, you see those things in the mall, and because of my exercise physiology background, you know, every now and then I'll say, I'll say, hey, watch this.

Speaker 8 And the guy will come up to me or the girl will come up to me.

Speaker 8 And they'll start explaining and they'll start doing the thing and i'll just totally blow them out of the water until they'll be like oh oh shit this guy actually knows what he's talking about wrong guy yeah yeah the the wrong guy you know it's like people that come up

Speaker 8 the few people that don't know you when you guys go when you guys at a restaurant or a bar they start trying to talk to you about something you'd be like and you just let them talk because eventually at some point

Speaker 8 You just want to call them out on their bullshit.

Speaker 2 Yeah. What about a brain massager? Big Cat bought a brain magazine.

Speaker 1 I have a brain massager.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Have you ever heard of that working?

Speaker 1 Is that that little thing that goes, yeah, just massage your whole sculpt and activate your brain? Okay, yeah, that's good.

Speaker 8 Yeah, well, listen, every time you guys step on the hey, this is what I always say about those things. All right,

Speaker 8 if they, if you believe they work, use them. You see a bunch, yeah, you see a bunch of baseball players, you see tons of baseball players, they wear the necklaces, they wear the things

Speaker 8 around their wrists and so forth. So, what's my what's my explanation to them? If you believe it works, it works.

Speaker 1 So, I had another question about the baseball because I think it is going to be obviously part of a big part of Sunday Night's documentary. We're going to run this Monday, like I said.

Speaker 1 When Michael decides to come back,

Speaker 1 what was he

Speaker 1 because he only comes back for 17 games the regular season? He clearly wasn't the same guy wearing 45 until he famously switches to 23, which is all-time moment.

Speaker 1 But what percentage of like peak Michael Jordan do you think he was when he's back after that year and a half layoff?

Speaker 8 Oh, when he came back for that shortened season, 70, 75% best. Yeah.
And there's a crazy thing. You know, even at 70, 75%, he's probably better than 90% of the players, but

Speaker 1 he wasn't Michael Jordan. Right.
And would you say that's because of the muscle memory?

Speaker 1 I mean, obviously, we all know that like basketball is one of those things where the shot and the touch around the rim matter so much in timing.

Speaker 1 But in terms of like the muscle mass, his body composition, was that a big hindrance when he came back for that shortened season?

Speaker 8 It definitely was a hindrance. No question about it.

Speaker 8 No question about it. And I've told him that.

Speaker 8 I've told that story before, too. There just wasn't enough time to make that transition, you know, not only from

Speaker 8 the body type, but also the skill set.

Speaker 8 It's not like going to play in a pickup game. You're literally coming back to play with the best players and against the best players in the world.

Speaker 8 So

Speaker 8 I don't care how good you are. When you take a year and a half off, there is going to be

Speaker 8 a little slide, a little rust that needs to be worked off. The interesting part about that story is

Speaker 8 when they lost to Orlando,

Speaker 8 we were,

Speaker 8 everybody was gone.

Speaker 8 And I was sitting in, it was three of us sitting in the arena. It was myself, MJ,

Speaker 8 and one of his security guys.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 8 he just sat there. He just didn't want to leave.

Speaker 8 And we were getting ready to leave. And

Speaker 8 I said, MJ, I just said, you know, I'll see you. He goes, no, I'll see you tomorrow.
So we literally started. that next day.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 8 And then one of the biggest blessings was that he had to shoot that movie Space Jam.

Speaker 1 Right, in the dome.

Speaker 8 Yes.

Speaker 8 You know, so he was actually in one place for a very, very long time. And we were able to build a dome for him and get all the players to come compete against him at the highest level.

Speaker 8 So it's funny how those things all

Speaker 8 fell into place and came and he came back, you know,

Speaker 8 not just as good, if not better, than the previous years.

Speaker 2 Did playing 36 or 54 holes of golf before a game conflict with any of your trading methods yeah

Speaker 8 yeah you know what that's a that's it that's a great that's a great question all right so very rarely did he do 36. there were times that quite a few times that he did 18 and that was actually

Speaker 8 a part

Speaker 8 of his

Speaker 8 allowing his mind to relax. It was his reset, but he never took it to the point where it it would be a hindrance to his performance.

Speaker 8 It actually enhanced his performance. And I have charts of all this.
You know,

Speaker 8 before we had all this stuff,

Speaker 8 these analytics and so forth, I would actually chart how he played,

Speaker 8 the days he golfed before a game, the days he golfed after a game, practices and so forth, and see

Speaker 8 how he would perform at the game. And if there was an adverse effect,

Speaker 8 I would be the first one to point it out.

Speaker 1 I'm going to prop you up for a second for people who don't know. Tim Grover was MJ's Fitbit.
He would literally watch how many steps he took in a basketball game and chart that.

Speaker 1 So when he says he chart, he would watch and rewind and count the actual steps, which is mind-blowing given today's technology that that was what you had to do.

Speaker 8 Yeah, well, back then, you know what?

Speaker 8 uh you know most of your viewers are going to be too young to remember what a betamax or a vhs tape is but that's what we had to do you know you'd get the tape and since i was at the games you'd have to set the tape at the slowest speed so you can make sure you get all six hours of it and then after i'd come after the game I would literally come home and I'd have to sit and I would literally watch the game because that's how I determined what the workout was going to be the next day over the next week or what was going on on because I needed to know how much activity he had going in one direction, how many activity he had explosive-wise, how much activity he had stopping, jumping, landing,

Speaker 8 doing all that stuff.

Speaker 8 And one of the things that you guys had mentioned earlier is

Speaker 8 there's this big thing about

Speaker 8 In order to be successful, you have to create balance. You have to find somebody who's the opposite of you, you know, just the opposite of you, you know, that yin and the yang.

Speaker 8 I don't believe in that.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 8 In order to be successful, the person that should be involved in your success has to be just as fucked up as you are.

Speaker 1 Okay. I like that.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You were talking about, you know, charting his days that he would spend golfing and then... you know, correlating that to whether or not he had a better game or a worse game.

Speaker 2 Did you notice any pattern if he shot really well on the golf course that he would end up playing well that night or maybe the opposite?

Speaker 8 It was funny. He actually, the worse golf he played, the better basketball he played.

Speaker 2 I was going to say, I wouldn't be surprised about that because it gave him more motivation.

Speaker 2 He's like out to prove himself wrong.

Speaker 8 And usually when he was out there,

Speaker 8 he wasn't playing golf by himself.

Speaker 8 He was probably competing against somebody, and he was pissed off that he lost to him.

Speaker 8 So

Speaker 8 whoever beat him, he had to take it out on somebody. He had to take it out on somebody else.
And whoever that was on the opponent's team, on the opposite team,

Speaker 8 they got the grunt of it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right, I have a couple last questions.

Speaker 1 One is

Speaker 1 the famous Jared Jeffrey, maybe not famous, but Jared Jeffrey's story about the time that MJ flexed on Antoine Walker at your gym with the Ferraris and Lambos. Is that true?

Speaker 1 Can you tell us what exactly happened?

Speaker 8 Yeah, so Antoine was a big car collector. He had a bunch of cars that he, you know, and he'd like to come in and

Speaker 8 show them off all the time. So what happened was, you know, Michael, obviously, he would get cars that weren't even up for sale yet.
All right. So he just basically, one day,

Speaker 8 he had a gentleman that took care of all his cars and everything. So he just had that guy and a bunch of people.
He said, hey, I want you to just drive this, this, and this car down.

Speaker 8 And all of a sudden, they would just, and it was funny, they would just, they just surrounded

Speaker 8 Antoine's car and just to say, yeah, Antoine, that's nice, but this is, this is what I got. And then they would look at him.
It was like, that's not even coming out for another year. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 8 You know, so by the time the cars that they were getting, the cars that all the other players were showing off,

Speaker 8 those were like used cars for Michael because

Speaker 8 he had already gotten those, gotten those vehicles because

Speaker 8 the companies wanted to see you know they wanted to have michael as an on as a non-paid endorser in their vehicles right and all because antoan walker showed up with a nice car to your gym and he was yeah well there's also a lot of nicer cars there was a lot of there was also a lot of shit talking going on in the gym too about it and just there was just just just his way of saying hey listen

Speaker 8 This is my world.

Speaker 8 I'm letting you guys live in it and enjoy it for a little while.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I've always wondered about, you know, you always hear the stories going into the World Cup usually is when it pops up, but you hear about maybe a Brazilian soccer coach that takes his players away from their wives and girlfriends for a month leading up to the tournament.

Speaker 2 Because if you have sex, you're a worse player. It takes like that edge off or whatever.
In your experience, is there any correlation with that?

Speaker 8 Well, you know what? I've charted a lot of things. That was the one thing

Speaker 8 I wasn't able to chart.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 8 But um

Speaker 8 I've known no correlation between it what what one way or the other I have not seen it but I have no perfect you know that's a question I know they it's still prevalent in MMA and boxing and so forth but there's no way for me just from a scientific standpoint and from my from my research I'm like

Speaker 8 Not everybody performs at the highest level when they're wound up. Sometimes you need, other people perform better when they're unwound.
And if that's your release, then so be it.

Speaker 8 You have to figure out what works for you. If not having, if you perform at a higher level,

Speaker 8 when you don't have sex, then don't have sex before. If you perform at a higher level, when you do, then do it.
Those are things that me as a trainer cannot determine for you.

Speaker 8 And I cannot count those reps for those individuals.

Speaker 2 How many strokes do you take the night before, Mike?

Speaker 1 All right, my last question. You were there, and I'm sure this will come up in the documentary because it's probably one of the most famous MJ moments, the flu game.

Speaker 1 You are convinced it was food poisoning. Can you tell us what you saw?

Speaker 8 100% it was food poisoning.

Speaker 8 100%.

Speaker 8 You know, but obviously it just sounds better to be.

Speaker 8 the flu game than the food poisoning game that doesn't even that doesn't even you know it doesn't even roll off your tongue correctly so we were we were in you we were in utah and back then uh the team decided to stay in Park City Park City was not what Park City is now all right so literally everything closed down at like 830 there was no there was no room service in the hotel and Michael said hey he's hungry and I'm like all right listen everything is everything is closed and then I was finally able hey Michael I found a pizza joint that's open So I said, order me, order the pizza.

Speaker 8 So I ordered a pizza. The door rang.
And by then, everybody knew what room Michaels was in because

Speaker 8 we had already been there for it. We had already been there for a while.
And I opened up the door and there's literally five guys standing out there to deliver a pizza.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 8 So I take the pizza. Obviously they wanted to get a glimpse of Michael.
And, you know, I handed the pizza. I paid the guys and I closed the door and I just said, man, I got a bad feeling about this.

Speaker 8 And I got a bad feeling about this. So he goes, is this a pizza? I said, yeah, here's a pizza.
I feel Michael. I said, I got a bad feeling about this.
He's like, oh, man, fuck you. I was like, okay.

Speaker 8 So nobody, there was, there was about four of us in the room. Nobody ate the pizza but him.
Nobody. And there was no signs of flu, anything being sick before that.

Speaker 8 And then about three o'clock in the morning, we get, I get a call to my room and just say, hey, man, come to MJ's room. And he's literally curled up in a fetal position.

Speaker 8 Just like, I'm like, oh man, what happened? So we went and got the team physician at that time, and just nobody could figure out what was going on.

Speaker 8 I was like, and he had only eaten like a, you know, a couple of slices. So

Speaker 8 you don't go from being, I've not known any flu that can hit you that fast, but I know how quickly food poisoning can hit you.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, you should have had a taster.

Speaker 8 Again, you know, his mental toughness and his mindset was just like, hey, just get me well enough. So I can get, I can get to the floor.
And he goes, once I get on to the court.

Speaker 8 And he had told Phil, once I'm in the the game, and I had mentioned to him, too, I said, Michael,

Speaker 8 the worst thing you can do is go in and out. Once you're in the game, you got to stay.
You got to play as long as you as long as you freaking can. Cause once you sit down, that's it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. That's it.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Did you guys adapt from that point moving forward? Was there always somebody that would like taste Michael's food before he tasted, like a king?

Speaker 8 Only in Utah, only in Utah. But you know, listen, that's that's my story that's what i observe you know i was in the room when all this thing when this was going on so if anybody has

Speaker 8 if anybody had a better look than i did i'd like to i'd like to see who that person was because they they definitely weren't there yeah well tim this has been awesome we really really appreciate it uh i'm jacked up i might even do some bench press after this just just pumped up from talking to you so that's awesome hey listen with your guy with your guys permission you know i would love to offer something free to all your uh all your listeners no charge no anything like that i'm not trying to sell anything but you know you guys talked about the book relentless in the book you know we talk about the coolers closers and cleaners and you know we have the traits of the most competitive individuals the relentless 13 which you guys should read because when you when you see those you'll be like yeah that's me that's me that's me if you go to timgrover.com slash free

Speaker 8 you you'll get the traits of the cleaners and you'll get a you'll get a like a test to find out if you're a cooler closer or cleaner.

Speaker 1 I love it. I like it.
I love it. Timgrover.com/slash free.
I love it.

Speaker 8 Timgrover.com/slash free. You guys were so gracious to me.
I want to do something for your audience. I never go anywhere and not be thankful for the opportunity.
I truly appreciate it.

Speaker 8 I'm truly grateful for it.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. I'm ready to run through a brick wall right now.
Yeah. Yeah.
I'm amped up.

Speaker 1 Thanks so much, Tim.

Speaker 8 Thank you, gentlemen. Continued success to you.

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Okay,

Speaker 1 let's do our Mount Flushmore. And then we have our deep dive with Billy Football.
So our Mount Flushmore, we thought,

Speaker 1 given the recent news with the Washington Capitals, we'd do the Mount Flushmore of bad teammates after that one Capitals.

Speaker 1 After that one Capitol

Speaker 2 Capital. You meant former Capitol.

Speaker 1 Player said was making fun of his teammate's wife,

Speaker 1 and also maybe MJ bullying Scottie Burrell and punching Steve Kerr. But he was good.
First of all,

Speaker 2 first of all, shout out to the Capitals for cutting the guy. He's really an Edmonton Oiler.
When people say the name Liftress or whatever his name is, they think Edmonton.

Speaker 2 They don't think Washington, D.C. So, classy organization through and through got rid of the guy that was saying that his teammate's wife was fat.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 let's do worst teammates for our, or sorry, the Mount Flushmore of teammates.

Speaker 1 Let's, who starts on Mondays? Hank. Hank? No, PFT.
No, Hank.

Speaker 2 Hank goes on Mondays.

Speaker 1 Hank goes on Mondays.

Speaker 5 Goes by age.

Speaker 1 Henry.

Speaker 5 My number one worst teammate, I will go with

Speaker 5 Tanya Harding.

Speaker 2 Good choice. Okay, good choice.
Good, good choice, Hank.

Speaker 2 I had her on my short list, too. Good job.

Speaker 1 What did you say? Did you lie for Tanya?

Speaker 5 I think I might have been alive, but I recently watched the Itanya movie with Margot Robbie, and that really

Speaker 5 cemented her in my mind as the worst teammate of all time.

Speaker 2 What's crazy is they let her compete in those Olympics, too.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's insane. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Well, I mean, well, at that point, it wasn't proven guilty, so it was like,

Speaker 5 it's hard to believe that she was the person that would have done such a thing.

Speaker 2 And then she got into porn, she was like honey boo-boo without the sketchy.

Speaker 1 She got in the uh, she got into fighting, she got into remember, she did like celebrity bottoms,

Speaker 1 she had a rough upbringing, yeah, she was like that, yeah.

Speaker 2 She was the person that they'd like get on the phone with and be like, oh shit, Danny Bonaducci has swine flu, and we need a last-minute replacement for iHeart the 90s.

Speaker 2 Let's talk to Tanya Harding, she's got nothing else going on, yes. Um, but that's a good first choice, Hank.
I like that.

Speaker 1 That's a good first choice, Hank.

Speaker 2 Uh, my first choice, I'm going to go with Delante West. Pretty easy.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow. So, mental health is not an issue to you?

Speaker 2 For reasons that we know.

Speaker 5 Oh, Delante. I had him on my short list, too.

Speaker 2 I'll put it this way: Happy Mother's Day.

Speaker 1 I had him on my short list. I had on my short list, but seeing that he has serious mental issues, I'm not going to make light of it like PFT just did.

Speaker 1 So I actually respect mental health issues.

Speaker 1 That's a good choice, but I think it's a great choice.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 All right, then I will go my first pick. I will go with Jeff Kent.
Jeff Kent.

Speaker 1 Jeff Kent is such a dickhead that Milton Bradley had to be like he's a dickhead, and Barry Bonds had to be like, he's a dickhead. So Milton Bradley and Barry Bonds, both in Jeff Kent's career.

Speaker 1 Barry with the Giants,

Speaker 1 Milton Bradley with the Dodgers, had to be like, yeah, this guy's an asshole, even though I am the biggest asshole in the world. And just his name, like Jeff Kent, that's such an asshole name.

Speaker 1 So, Jeff Kent, number one.

Speaker 1 And Barry Bonds had four lockers, by the way. Remember that story?

Speaker 2 He had four lockers to separate himself from his teammates.

Speaker 2 Also, because he had like a widescreen TV that covered up two of them.

Speaker 1 Huge TV in a leather chair. And

Speaker 1 he was like, Yeah, Jeff Kent's a bad teammate. That guy said Jeff Kent's a bad teammate.
All right. My number two, I'll go with,

Speaker 1 I'll stay in baseball. I'll go with John Rocker.
Says some racist stuff to his teammates.

Speaker 1 A lot of explosive headlines. Not really a nice guy.
I'm pretty sure he called

Speaker 1 Randall Simon a

Speaker 1 racial slur, like to his face.

Speaker 2 Terry Pendleton.

Speaker 1 No, I'm pretty sure it was Randall Simon.

Speaker 1 But he might have also said it to Terry Pendleton.

Speaker 2 Let's just assume that was probably both of them.

Speaker 1 He might have said it to both. But yeah, really bad guy and really bad teammate.

Speaker 2 I think think that's probably pretty accurate. You could ask anyone that played with him.

Speaker 2 John Rocker, he was the crazy thing was like when you see John Rocker sprint out of the bullpen, you're like, oh, fuck, this guy's coming in to close out the game.

Speaker 2 You can usually find a spot like that, no matter how big an asshole you are on any team, if you're that good at your job. But he was so racist that even his best stuff was not worth it.

Speaker 1 I think he might not have had a fallen out with Terry Pendleton because I just Googled Terry Pendleton and John Rocker, and the first result was December 2nd, 2014.

Speaker 1 Terry Pendleton, John Rocker, Otis Nixon, Marquise Grissom will all be at Davin Busters at Marietta for an autograph signing Friday from 6 to 8 p.m. That is lit.

Speaker 2 There you go. Davin Busters brings everyone together.
It's the great unifier.

Speaker 1 That's unbelievable. Okay, go ahead.

Speaker 2 All right, so my next one, I'm going to go with, I think Brett Favre was a shitty teammate. Because

Speaker 2 every offseason, there would be like, will he come back? Won't he come back?

Speaker 2 It took like all the spotlight, put it right on him. And then he would go ahead and lose a shitload of games for your team.
He would throw so many terrible, terrible interceptions.

Speaker 2 But then if he threw like one great touchdown pass at the end of any one of these games, everyone would be like, Brett Favre won us this game after putting us behind by 21 points by closing his eyes and throwing two pick sixes.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. I mean, he.

Speaker 1 The only counter I'd say to Brett Favre is he probably would be a fun. He seems like the type of quarterback that would drink with everyone.

Speaker 1 Like, there's quarterbacks who won't hang out with the rest of the team. Brett Favre would definitely be like, where are we going to play pool tonight after a game?

Speaker 2 Oh, he'd definitely be. You know what? The more I think about what a fun guy he probably was to hang out with, this was strictly on the field.
So I feel like this is a bad take.

Speaker 2 I'd like to preemptively roast myself for this take because, as I was explaining, I was finding myself. He's great growth.

Speaker 1 You know what?

Speaker 2 He'd be a fun person to go to Davin Buster's with. Right.

Speaker 1 Great growth by you there. Yeah, I think he definitely.
God damn it. Bad pick.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And he would probably be like, yo, dude, just shoot your shot. Send that sext.
Like, he is the confident friend that can boost you up. Be like, dude, you got this.

Speaker 2 Yep. And you always need to.

Speaker 5 And like, he's not a threat in the locker room. Like, you walk by him in the locker room, you're not intimidated in any way.

Speaker 2 You always need a guy with a smaller dick from you standing next to you in the locker room to make you look good.

Speaker 1 Yep. Okay.
God damn it. Hank, you're next too.

Speaker 5 I will go with D'Angelo Russell. I feel like the number one rule being a teammate, bros before hoes, you can't go outing your teammate cheating on his girlfriend while you're still in the team.

Speaker 5 Like one of the all-time awkward, must have been the most awkward locker room situations of all time.

Speaker 5 And then I'll go with recurring guest of the show, friend of the program, but Richie Incognito.

Speaker 1 Richie's had some run-ins with some teammates, I'd say. Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 2 just a prank, you could say it's just a prank, just hazing that happened to get out there.

Speaker 5 But I would say if you were on that team, you're probably in agreement that he was a bad teammate.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Rich is one of those guys where it's like, you know the old saying that you want a guy like that on your team?

Speaker 2 He's like the opposite. You want him to practice on another team and then just join your team on game day.

Speaker 1 Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly. When he's on your side, it's on game day.
It's probably, you're probably happy. But yeah.
Okay, good picks, Hank.

Speaker 2 Okay, so

Speaker 1 can you recover? No, you have one, and then I have two, then you have another one.

Speaker 1 Can he recover?

Speaker 2 I'm in my own head from that last pick because it was so bad. All right, I'm going to go with Joe Brinis.

Speaker 1 I'm still on the board.

Speaker 2 Jobert Arenas. Okay.

Speaker 2 Anytime you get into a situation where you pull a gun on your teammate, I feel like that's frowned upon.

Speaker 5 That was just a prank, though.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, yeah, no, I like that pick, PFT.
That's a good point. And he was probably fun to gamble with.

Speaker 2 Aruger can't fire

Speaker 2 if the magazine's out, so he was never in danger.

Speaker 1 Okay, good pick. So I got my last two.
I'll go. This one's one that I don't think people fully remember, but Tony Parker fucked Brent Berry's wife when they were teammates.

Speaker 5 I don't remember that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. So I think he gets bad teammate

Speaker 1 or one of the worst teammates ever because that's like you're it's pretty much confirmed that that happened. So

Speaker 1 you can't everything else, you hear rumors when these things happen. I'm pretty sure this is as close to fact as possible.

Speaker 1 So that would be my third pick. And then my fourth pick, I will go with Bill Romanowski.
Roy Rage, ending his teammate's career by punching him in the face,

Speaker 1 spitting on people, probably

Speaker 1 doesn't have the most

Speaker 1 progressive politics, let's say. Bill Romanowski.

Speaker 2 Counterpoint, he was awesome in the longest yard.

Speaker 1 Yes, he was.

Speaker 2 Like, as a prison guard, he's a great teammate to have. Yes, he was.
On the football field, maybe not.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Okay, your last pick.

Speaker 2 My last one. This is an easy one for me.
I'm going to go with Judas. I consider Judas to be a teammate.
Sold out Jesus, all about the contract situation,

Speaker 2 really fucked things up for the rest of the world because he was so selfish. Wanted a couple pieces of silver to jingle around in his pocket.
Next thing you know, we're all going to hell.

Speaker 2 Thanks a lot, Jesus.

Speaker 5 Yeah, but let's, in counterpoint, PFT, if Judas wasn't Judas, like, would the Bible really matter?

Speaker 1 Like, who cares? Judas kind of made it all happen.

Speaker 2 Right. Are you saying, like,

Speaker 2 they don't boo nobodies? Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 1 He's the strongest deserves the drink.

Speaker 5 He was the catalyst. Like, he was the match that ignit, you know, the flame that is Christianity.

Speaker 2 So, like, Jesus essentially joined club 27, except he was 33. So, like, are you saying if we look, if Jesus had lived out his career to be like 60, 70, 80, maybe he gets canceled later in his life?

Speaker 5 No one cares about Jesus if he doesn't die and come back, let's be honest. Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 People start doing the, like, do we really care about David Blaine anymore? Like, dude, we've seen you make water into wine a million times. It's not that impressive.

Speaker 2 You die a martyr, or you live long enough to become a grifter.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Got it.

Speaker 1 Or Hank, your last pick.

Speaker 5 My last one. I'm surprised this one's still on the board, but LeBron James.

Speaker 5 Can't be fun to be his teammate. You're always, always in fear that he's like, if you know, if you do well, he's going to take all the credit.

Speaker 5 If you do bad, he's probably going to trade you off the team.

Speaker 5 I just can't imagine that it's fun to be LeBron James' teammate.

Speaker 2 We left that one for you on purpose.

Speaker 2 We felt that it would be best served to be on the Lockwood team.

Speaker 1 I actually don't totally like Kyle Kuzma.

Speaker 5 Kyle Kuzma is probably miserable. You think it's fun that he came to his team, but he's probably miserable.
Okay, if we're doing he's on the trading block always.

Speaker 1 If we're doing counterpoints though.

Speaker 5 And you know LeBron is the most passive aggressive like yeah bro I love you bro and then like he trades your ass.

Speaker 1 Yes, but he also got Tristan Thompson like $100 million which that's pretty impressive.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 If you can become LeBron's guy directly that doesn't outshine him. Yeah.

Speaker 2 If you can become like LeBron's personal guy, then you're set. He has like one or two friends that he has to bring with him everywhere he goes so that not everyone in the locker room hates him.

Speaker 2 If you can get into that role, then you're set for life. So

Speaker 1 who do we miss?

Speaker 1 I had Barry Bonds and Milton Bradley, but Jeff Kent, the fact that those two guys disagree with Jeff Kent kind of trumped it.

Speaker 5 I had Carl Everett, but I wasn't sure if there was instances of him being a bad teammate or just him being like a psycho.

Speaker 1 The dinosaur thing, yeah.

Speaker 1 That's a

Speaker 5 like

Speaker 5 kicking the other player and stuff. But I don't know.
Maybe he's like a good teammate that just fights, you know, fights for his team.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Joey Slogano. I don't know if he's a bad teammate or not to the people that he's on the team.
I just know he's a dickhead.

Speaker 1 Yep. Fact.
Steve Smith probably deserves to be on there. I feel like Steve Smith, like kicking the shit out of a rookie, was a rite of passage for every single training camp.

Speaker 2 Michael Westbrook.

Speaker 1 Michael Westbrook. Lattrell Spreewell, choking your coach.
Never really

Speaker 1 a move that has camaraderie in the locker room, I feel like.

Speaker 5 He also said that $21 million contract isn't enough to feed his family. Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 T.O. T.O.

Speaker 5 And he got into fist fight with one of his teammates.

Speaker 1 Yeah, T.O. should be on there

Speaker 1 saying Jeff Garcia is gay, saying Don McNabb is lazy and fat, fighting with everyone.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 Tiki Barber, underrated one. Remember how much, how mean he was to Eli? And then he also commented on Michael Strahan saying he was overpaid.
Like, he was not a good teammate.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Tiki was just not a great, not a great dude.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then I did joke Carson Wentz, but it is funny because it will trigger people because there seems to be always stories about Carson Wentz, even though I feel like he hasn't done anything wrong.

Speaker 2 One of my favorite things, there are like five people I keep seeing in OJ could pick in replies to him. Oh, I blocked him.

Speaker 1 I blocked that guy. Yeah, I blocked that guy.
He was so annoying. He just kept on replying.

Speaker 2 At first, it was funny.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then it kept going.

Speaker 1 He has a copy-pasted Carson Wentz.

Speaker 1 Is it pro or anti-anti-Wentz? It's anti-Wentz being like, Carson Wentz never won a playoff game, and he would just reply to every single sports media account and paste it.

Speaker 1 Like, if you tweet three times in five minutes, he will reply three times in five minutes. I finally blocked him because I was like, I can't.

Speaker 1 I would just randomly have Carson Wentz's debates going off in my mentions. I was like, I can't have this.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was funny the first few times I saw it because it's a long paragraph about his stats in playoff games and like certain like touchdown interception rates that he has in the fourth quarters of games.

Speaker 2 But you're right, like it ignited a full-on Carson Wentz. It didn't matter if you were tweeting, like if Big Cat, you tweeted out a picture of Donuts in the morning.

Speaker 2 If I tweeted out a video of me puking after a Peloton, it didn't matter what the context was.

Speaker 2 There would be like a six-hour long Carson Wentz debate that was going on in my mentions, which which don't get me wrong, I love just random sports debates that continue on.

Speaker 2 Like the Joe Flacco elite debate is still going on inside my own brain, but a man's got to have a line.

Speaker 1 Yes, you have to, you have to know at some point we just don't care. And we reached that point a long time ago.
But yeah, there's the Carson Wentz thing.

Speaker 1 I feel like he always gets accused of the locker room not loving him. I think that really is not even that Carson Wentz is a bad guy.
I think Nick Fole is just that kind of a cool of a guy.

Speaker 1 That's what it seems like.

Speaker 2 Can I make a last-minute petition to replace my Brett Favre pick? Because I'm so ashamed of that.

Speaker 1 Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

Speaker 5 Yes, but it has to be Kobe.

Speaker 1 Totally against the rules. Yeah.
Yeah, good call, Hank. Yeah.
Put Kobe on there.

Speaker 2 No, no.

Speaker 2 I'm not going to agree with that. What if I do the shame walk? I feel ashamed of that.

Speaker 1 Putting Kobe on there is the shame walk.

Speaker 1 I won't do that.

Speaker 2 Block is too much. It's true, though.

Speaker 2 Wow. He's in the conversation.
Hank,

Speaker 2 it sounds like you're picking Kobe now, Hank.

Speaker 5 No, I mean, I'm not going to lie. The thought crossed my mind, but I was like, I'm not going to say it out loud.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 But there's an element of, I mean, it's the thing we watched with the last dance. There's an element of, if you win, can you be a bad teammate? I don't know if you can.

Speaker 1 At some point, it's like the juice is worth the squeeze, right? If you get results, it goes back to the old Lane Johnson.

Speaker 1 You know, how he was like, I'd rather play for the Eagles and win one than not have fun with the Patriots. At some point, if you get results, you get results.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 The Lane Johnson comparison makes no sense there.

Speaker 1 No, it does make sense because people.

Speaker 1 I'm saying in defense of the Patriots being like a miserable place to play, but you can't really call it a miserable place if you win a championship.

Speaker 1 Like, you can't call someone a bad teammate if they win championships overall.

Speaker 2 Saying, like, if New England was, you know, the way that it is right now and just, like, very tough to play for and they only won one Super Bowl, would that be worth it?

Speaker 2 Probably not a lot of veterans would go there trying to win a Super Bowl because it's such a miserable place, but if you can repeat it, repeat it, it's totally worth it, right?

Speaker 1 And if you have a guy like Michael Jordan who probably belittles you and makes fun of you, it's worth it if you win championships every year.

Speaker 2 I also had Jeff Ken on here. I had Jared Leto would be one in terms of the film industry.

Speaker 2 He seems like a real dickhead to make a film with, where when he was getting into character for the Joker, he was sending people all sorts of fucked up dead animals and stuff and just trying to get real artistic with a cartoon character.

Speaker 2 Get out of here, dude.

Speaker 1 Take it easy. That one's good.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to think who in the film in Hollywood.

Speaker 1 I bet you Christian Bale doesn't seem like an easy guy to get along with.

Speaker 2 No, he's not. And he's Welsh.
No, but that's a results thing.

Speaker 1 That's a result.

Speaker 5 He gets results.

Speaker 1 His movies are fire. True, good point.
That's a good counterpoint. You're true.
If you're part of it, you're going to get yelled at. But,

Speaker 1 okay.

Speaker 2 All right, listen. And like, Daniel Day-Lewis would probably be weird as shit to hang out with during a movie, but you know that you're getting that Oscar nod later, right?

Speaker 1 Right. Um, okay, let's do our Billy Deep Dive.

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Speaker 1 okay we finish up monday's show we got deep dive with our intern slash uh son billy football he has a very special topic today something that's been in the news something i'm ready to challenge one-on-one to a fight it's murder hornets billy uh Before we do murder hornets, though, how's like, what's what's going on in the berserker bunker?

Speaker 1 Give us a status update on the kittens, the raccoons you're trying to catch, the muscle you're trying to put on.

Speaker 9 squat rack the squat rack the berserker blood cult just give us a quick rundown of the last like week okay so the kittens just got their shots on saturday they do not have feline aids or um leukemia which is good they've tripled i mean they've doubled in size since the last time i took them to the vet they came in underfed barn kittens whose mother had abandoned them i mean had died

Speaker 9 And now they are fat, fat cats that

Speaker 9 was like, how did they double in size? You need to make sure they don't double in size again, or they will be overweight. And I was like, no, they're accumulating mass.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Gains. They're getting gains.

Speaker 9 And he was like, no, these cats are fat.

Speaker 1 And you know,

Speaker 1 I love the idea of Billy arguing with a vet.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they're just getting more lean protein than you're used to. Like, these clearly, your vet doesn't go to the bodybuilding.com forum.

Speaker 9 Yeah, bodybuilding.com is where I learned how to take care of kittens.

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 1 but but then

Speaker 1 uh i was sitting at my dinner table um eating dinner with my mom one night and out of the corner of my eye i just see this giant look like a baby bear straight up probably like

Speaker 9 this like as big as like a cooler or bigger than a cooler um big thing of fur and i'm like holy what is that i look it's a freaking giant trash panda freaking raccoon giant walking across my porch i'm like holy like like, if it was a, like, I've seen raccoons before, but, and if it was, like, a small raccoon, like, whatever.

Speaker 9 But this thing was the biggest raccoon I've ever seen in my life.

Speaker 1 Looked like a small, like, black bear.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 I've seen the trap. The trap would not fit the size of raccoon that you saw.

Speaker 9 The trap is about, I would say.

Speaker 9 The raccoon would get in there and it would get trapped, but I couldn't. That was the biggest trap they had.

Speaker 9 at this point, I'd have to

Speaker 2 dig a giant pit.

Speaker 9 We'd put spikes at the bottom and make like a tiger trap.

Speaker 1 But don't do that. I'm not, I'm not going to kill the raccoons, by the way.

Speaker 9 I just whip at them out of the porch.

Speaker 2 So, so, Billy, um, raccoons to me always strike me as like a very cute pest to have, though. I'd rather have an infestation of raccoons than an infestation of like spiders or opossums.

Speaker 2 You know what I'm saying? So, like, what inconvenience is this raccoon putting on you that you have to get rid of it?

Speaker 1 Well, one of my

Speaker 9 responsibilities is I don't have to do dishes. I, you know, I cook occasionally.
My responsibility is trash.

Speaker 1 My big job is trash.

Speaker 9 I take out the trash, I deal with the trash. Sunday night, Tuesday night, and Thursday night, trash.

Speaker 8 So I'm in charge of the trash.

Speaker 9 I am in charge of the trash bags. So when I come down

Speaker 1 like

Speaker 9 on a, you know, a Friday morning, a Monday morning in a row, and just see my trash cans absolutely trash everywhere. And I have to clean up trash off the lawn.

Speaker 1 But that's that's your fault. You got to secure your trash better.

Speaker 9 I got two bungee cords. This is a jacked up raccoon.

Speaker 1 Damn.

Speaker 2 Wait, Billy, Billy, I feel like there's a great solution here. Why don't you capture the raccoon, bring it in, and have it lead workouts for your cats?

Speaker 2 Like, if you really want to get your cat swollen, what better workout instructor than just like modeling their life after a jacked up raccoon?

Speaker 9 This raccoon has definitely been eating like my leftover supplements because it is, I'm telling you, this thing is a monster.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 9 I couldn't find a pellet gun that could take down this raccoon. I'm not going to kill the raccoon.

Speaker 1 It's just no, you're just going to rehome it.

Speaker 9 I'm going to relocate it somewhere that's not right under my porch. But this thing would kill, like,

Speaker 9 kill a kitten, a cat. This thing is giant.
It's, I can't believe how big this thing is.

Speaker 9 When I catch it so i put marshmallow fluff turns out they love marshmallows and like sweet candy because i tried with fish didn't really work out but it was a big storm that night so uh i think they didn't come out but um yeah when i catch this raccoon it's it's getting shipped out here it's getting deported

Speaker 2 Okay, so I did see you try to wash the marshmallow fluff off your hands. That seems like it was a situation you didn't really think through before you got into.

Speaker 9 Well, I was trying to, dude, fluff, it just didn't really work. It was a mess, but we're going to catch the raccoon.
It'll all be worth it. I also, I just got a squat rack.
I'm setting up right now.

Speaker 9 That's why I was late to the call. I had to go get certain,

Speaker 9 you know, wedge tools.

Speaker 1 That's interesting. Now, Billy,

Speaker 5 we were streaming Call of Duty the other day, and you said it would be guaranteed done in the next 24 hours. This was on Friday.

Speaker 1 Well, I also started.

Speaker 9 I just started today.

Speaker 1 Wait, Wait, also very interesting because you just came 10 minutes late to the call and you said, sorry, I was running an errand for my mom. Well, I went to Walmart

Speaker 1 where I could

Speaker 1 the quickest you've been ever caught in a lie.

Speaker 1 Well, I went to Walmart.

Speaker 9 I did a couple of things. I got stuff for my mom and I got some tools I needed.
Okay. It's a one-stop shop.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 5 So when does the 24 hours start, Billy? Because I've had my own personal hell experience with a squat rack and I knew how overconfident you sounded. I'm just curious.
When is that 24-hour start? 2:30.

Speaker 5 I'm going to 2:30.

Speaker 9 Right after I hopped off, I'll go finish it right now.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, okay. We believe you.
All right, so let's do murder hornets. I don't.
I don't. Let's do murder hornets.

Speaker 1 Billy, I want to learn about murder hornets because I think they're frauds and we could fuck them if we had to. Absolutely.
Okay, good.

Speaker 9 Murder Hornets have been on my radar since 2006, since they were in the Guinness World of Records in 2006. I was reading, you would get Guinness World of Records every year on my birthday.

Speaker 9 It was one of my yearly gifts.

Speaker 9 It was like a consistent one.

Speaker 9 I loved reading them. And Murder Hornets was on there.
So I was like, okay, let's see. They're Japanese giant hornets, two inches long.

Speaker 9 They frequent the mountains of Japan and there's some in China and they're widespread.

Speaker 1 So I would read about them.

Speaker 9 So I'm like, okay, now back when I was that age.

Speaker 9 you know it was before sports were really part of my world because it's just too young i mean i like sports but like i animals were more tangible to me as a young child than than sports because there weren't that many leagues and I'd play, but it would just be with my friends.

Speaker 2 We get it, Billy. Yeah, we were into animals before we started playing sports.

Speaker 1 So we're not going to take your man card. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know what? Take my man card. I put enough on the man.
Take your boy card.

Speaker 1 You were six at the time. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Billy's apologizing for not playing tackle football as a seven as a seven-year-old.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 9 I did some research on it and I was like, I knew about invasive species back then. I was a little more, I was a little smarter than your average seven-year-old when it came to biology and whatnot.

Speaker 9 So I was like, could this become an invasive species? And they're like, the reproduction rates of the murder hornets are not that high compared to other hornets because they're so large.

Speaker 9 So, you know, one of the reasons why, you know, woolly mammoths went extinct was because their reproduction rates and with elephants is so much slower than other animals.

Speaker 9 So they couldn't keep up with the deaths. So I was like, okay, this, and then there's Japanese bees, honeybees.
And how they, this is how they deal with the murder hornets.

Speaker 9 Now, the murder hornets pose a bigger risk to our honeybee populations than they do humans. So what the bees do is they all crowd, they all land on one hornet, the first horn to get their hive.

Speaker 9 They all land on it, you know, form a mosh pit on top of it and get so hot that they cook the murder hornet till it dies.

Speaker 9 And the murder hornet can't fly back to its nest and tell the other murder hornets, yo, let's go run a fade on some honey bees. So they catch the first one, kill it.

Speaker 9 And I'm like, okay, if a bunch of bees can do this, the Japanese bees, then worst comes to worse.

Speaker 9 You know, we get some Japanese honeybees and start working them into our American honeybee populations.

Speaker 9 And one of the reasons why the American honeybees have so much issue, you know, it's not that they have an issue, but why they need so much help to produce honey is because they're also a non-native species.

Speaker 9 So American honeybees, there's no such thing as an American honeybee. They're all just European honeybees that were brought over in 1622, right after the Mayflower.

Speaker 1 Wow. Kind of like us.
Yeah, like us. So, you know, all honeybees are immigrants.

Speaker 9 There's, you know, the best thing about American honeybees is, well, now actually, the real bee we need to be scared of is the Africanized honeybee, which is super aggressive.

Speaker 9 And was actually, it was basically what happened was in Brazil. The European honeybee was having a hard time producing honey because it couldn't handle, you know, the various

Speaker 9 ecosystem and the types of other insects in the Amazon, which is in Brazil.

Speaker 9 So they brought over African honeybees and they were cross-breeding them with European honeybees in the lab to make a more hardy tropical bee that could also produce honey to the same standard.

Speaker 2 You still with me?

Speaker 1 Yep. Yeah.

Speaker 2 We're talking about killer bees here, right?

Speaker 9 So the Africanized honeybees are

Speaker 9 actually killing people because they swarm way more aggressively. So think about animals that live in Africa that like honey, right?

Speaker 1 Honey badger. The honey badger, exactly.

Speaker 9 So, honey badger don't give a shit. Honey badger takes what it wants, like he doesn't give a fuck.

Speaker 9 So, these bees evolved to fight the honey badger, like Tyron Matthew, like doesn't give a fuck, takes the ball. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 9 because of that, they're a much more aggressive bee. So, the Brazilians brought over to the lab to mix.

Speaker 2 It's like the SEC. They play against superior opponents, and so therefore, their level of competition goes up.
Got it.

Speaker 1 Of course.

Speaker 9 So, you know, the Brazilians brought them over um cross-bred them with european honeybees anyway they got out of the lab and they've been a huge invasive species because they're so much more aggressive they basically were looking for a little more aggression but got way too much anyway now they're in the uh the the southern u.s so texas florida um arizona new mexico and you know they're coming up through the southern border and they are like actually causing a ruckus you know they're actually like people there's people getting stung um so wait what does this have to do with the murder hornet well these are the bees you should actually be worried about.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. So you just did a little okie doke on us.
You're like, hey, you guys, murder hornets are the hotness, but really what we should be worried about is something way worse.

Speaker 9 Yeah, yeah. No, the murder hornets aren't going to do shit.

Speaker 9 I mean, like, you know, American honey producers have been, have known about the murder hornets for like at least 2006, and they definitely are making, you know, preparation.

Speaker 9 Like, basically, the American honeybee being in trouble is basically like a farmer saying, oh, a wolf is attacking my sheep.

Speaker 5 Like, they're they're basically a livestock animal they're not like a wild animal got it so interesting is there anything is there anything like us normal people should like keep in keep in mind if we ever encounter one of these like murderous bees we should sit on them till they overcook and then they die just start vibrating um just vibe with it just

Speaker 2 everyone just carry around a hitachi magic wand sibian and then yes and then if if they get to you i actually saw that special bill he's talking about where the honey bees vibrate so quickly like little pocket rockets that they heat this bee up, the horn it up to like 120 degrees, and it just melts from the inside.

Speaker 2 It's pretty badass. But, Billy,

Speaker 2 I want to throw a flag on your fear porn too, because as someone that's been around for a little bit longer than you, I remember growing up, everyone told us to be afraid of killer bees.

Speaker 2 Like, oh, they've reached the American Southwest. They're finally here.
Killer bees are going to murder everyone. And so, we've been told that that's going to happen for like 30 years and never did.

Speaker 2 I'm beginning to suspect that the media likes to write stories and put things on the news that make people a little bit upset.

Speaker 9 Well, in my defense, I do, you should look at the statistics. Ever since then, the B attack death rates in the U.S.
have gone up.

Speaker 9 But talking about the murder hornet death rates in China, only 50 people in 2018 or 2017 died in China of murder bee stings.

Speaker 9 Now, that's a lot of people, 50, but more people in China die trying to take selfies than the murder hornets.

Speaker 1 Good. I like that.
That's a good stat.

Speaker 9 I don't know what the exact stat on the selfies is, but it's more than 100. I remember reading it.

Speaker 9 So, you know, selfies are more dangerous than the murder hornets to the Chinese. And think about how many people are in China.
So 50 out of like a billion, like, that's not that bad.

Speaker 1 No, that's that's very small.

Speaker 9 The murder hornets aren't a problem. The Africanized bees, on the other hand, have been killing more people per capita in the U.S.
already.

Speaker 2 Billy, I do like that, though. Like, clout is more deadly overall than honeybees are.

Speaker 1 Billy, back to Hank's question. If we did see a murder hornet What what should we do?

Speaker 1 Should we just like keep our microwave open at all times to try to catch them and and zap them like what's the protocol dude? I

Speaker 1 just care just fuck them up them up dude.

Speaker 9 Just just take your bug zapper take that's what I'm saying

Speaker 9 So you're saying attack when in doubt attack don't run away you stomp on it with a you curb stomp it with a Tim like you're gonna kill it like it's not like like right just curb

Speaker 1 but but should we you know how you're not supposed to like if you piss off a bee, they'll come and try to attack you. Like, a bumblebee won't do shit, but a regular bee will.

Speaker 1 Do you leave it alone or do you go at it?

Speaker 9 Just leave it alone. I mean, these hornets, they're not actually, you know,

Speaker 9 they're not as aggressive as other bees. They're more aggressive towards honeybees.
If you were walking around and you weren't,

Speaker 1 they wouldn't do anything to you. So if any of our listeners right now are honeybees, be worried.
Otherwise, you're good.

Speaker 9 Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 okay

Speaker 9 can you do a little disambiguation for us because I've seen conflicting reports saying watch out for the murder hornet sting or watch out for the murder hornets bite do they bite or do they sting so as hornets they don't lose their stingers when they sting unlike bees so every time they sting you they're not you know committing suicide so the sting does have venom it's the sting is bad i'm not gonna lie the sting is bad if from what i've read it feels like a hot nail being driven into your skin.

Speaker 1 I mean, look, bad. But, you know,

Speaker 9 that's their atomic, you know, that's their atomic option. They're not going to use it like a honeybee.

Speaker 9 A honeybee sees itself as a part of a hive, whereas the hornet has more individuality and isn't as threatened.

Speaker 9 Their hives are smaller than a honeybee, so they're not recklessly stinging everybody, but they're not going to die. So they will use it.
They're just... They're a larger animal.

Speaker 9 Like, you know how they say,

Speaker 9 they say, like, you know, daddy long legs have the most poisonous venom, but they never bite anybody?

Speaker 1 Same type of thing.

Speaker 9 They're just not going to bite you.

Speaker 1 Okay. All right.
So, so, yeah, so we're, we're set.

Speaker 9 But the Africanized bees are bad.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay.
I got it. So you just replaced one fear with another.

Speaker 9 Well, World War B, we have Japanese bees. We crossbreed the Japanese bees with the American bees, and we just become a melting pot of bee populations.

Speaker 9 And then the Japanese bees' idea of like the vibrating will kill the murder hornets and then the Africanized bees will mix into the population too and then our bees will be just as aggressive as the Africanized bees and push them back south so it's really a two-sided war there was a politician back in the 90s named Bulworth who said that like our solution is just everyone needs to keep fucking each other until we're all the same color and then there's no more racism that's the American bees

Speaker 1 okay all right well Billy thank you as always good luck with the squat rack I know hank will be watching um

Speaker 1 and everyone follow

Speaker 1 his panda, trash panda

Speaker 1 capture that's going on.

Speaker 9 Really quickly, big cat, you need to learn how to read a damn defense.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, it's bad, dude. No, he already texted me.
He already texted me.

Speaker 1 It's bad. I just run my office.
Keep that in-house. I run the same plays over and over.

Speaker 9 Yeah, well,

Speaker 9 just look at the way they're

Speaker 1 run that.

Speaker 2 Just open your eyes, dude. Nah.

Speaker 1 Just open your eyes, man.

Speaker 9 I will immediately get on the phone with you and be like, that's a cover three. Attack the scene.

Speaker 8 Oh, that's

Speaker 1 I don't act them. I don't know how to call more than like three plays.
Hot corner stuff, dude.

Speaker 2 Do you think that maybe Coach Dougs has a problem? Like, he can't delegate. He needs to hire an offensive coordinator underneath him.

Speaker 1 No, my problem is I have three plays. I like to run them over and over and over, and eventually they don't work.

Speaker 9 You can run them over and over, but you just got to figure out why the play is working. Oh, this play works because they're running a cover two, and then you can choose.

Speaker 1 I made a mistake. I could have won the game.
I made a mistake, dude. You don't tell, you don't say you don't text me after I beat Florida State, did you?

Speaker 8 You throw into a car.

Speaker 1 You didn't text me after I beat Florida State?

Speaker 5 Dude, you was wide open.

Speaker 1 Sounds like you're a Fairweather Dougs fan.

Speaker 9 I'm not a Fairweather Dougs fan. I don't feel like bothering you because, you know, you're a busy man and you gotta, like, you know, you need help.

Speaker 1 You need help.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I suck. I don't know what you want to say.
I suck.

Speaker 9 You don't, it's not that you suck, but you're not figuring out the reason why the plays are working. Like, oh, I like to run this play because they keep running.

Speaker 9 Like, if they keep lining up in a cover two two when you're in a hurry-up offense and you're running the same play over and again, that's why

Speaker 1 if you, if you run a hurry-up offense, you don't get to use your whole playbook, yeah, but you like using the same play every time, so right.

Speaker 2 So, why would to set your audible is to be one of those?

Speaker 1 I just like running the same place, yeah.

Speaker 2 So, if it's Billy, how do you diagnose a cover two from the line of scrimmage?

Speaker 9 You just see two safeties drop, look at their body language, and you it's like it's very easy to see.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm just gonna keep playing and losing and throwing interceptions a lot more fun that way.

Speaker 9 It's just so infuriating.

Speaker 1 Yeah, people get like you who get mad at me and I don't really care. I'm sorry, but it's just like

Speaker 9 it's legit, like, it's like watching someone like head-butt a wall.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 I would watch that. Yeah, it's like Gus Ferrat.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. Like, that puts asses in seats, Bill.

Speaker 1 That's part of the

Speaker 1 charge.

Speaker 1 Yeah, if I win,

Speaker 1 everyone's like, boo, this sucks. You won by a million.

Speaker 9 Then turn the difficulty up.

Speaker 1 It's all the way up, you idiot.

Speaker 9 Well, then read, then then read the like, read the goddamn defenses.

Speaker 1 What? Just I just told you.

Speaker 2 Just look, all you gotta do is like, oh, Billy, now you're headbutting a wall.

Speaker 1 Yeah. There's two guys up, and there's three guys up.
It's like, anyway, I'm ranting. I might start breaking down your Stephen Shea's already done that.
Yeah, but I'm. Oh, oh, oh,

Speaker 1 did he play football?

Speaker 1 What? Oh,

Speaker 5 good question, Billy.

Speaker 1 What did you ask? Did he play college football?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 2 So. He said, put a jersey on.

Speaker 9 Does he have the same brain damage I do?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 Interesting.

Speaker 1 Interesting. Yeah.

Speaker 9 You want to see my accreditation?

Speaker 1 I don't need a. Yeah, it's right here.
All right, Billy.

Speaker 1 Thank you. We will see you next week.
Or maybe see you for some Dungeons and Dragons that we got coming up.

Speaker 9 Oh, yeah. I won't bring.
Can I bring a sledgehammer?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Yeah, sure.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. Axes.

Speaker 9 I won't bring the axes, but I'll bring the sledgehammer.

Speaker 2 I love it. That's a tool, not a weapon.
So, yes, you can carry that. All right.
Love you guys.

Speaker 2 finally shine away.

Speaker 2 I'm all the coming for you longer.

Speaker 2 Take

Speaker 2 on

Speaker 2 me.

Speaker 2 Take

Speaker 2 me

Speaker 2 on.

Speaker 2 I'll be

Speaker 2 gone

Speaker 2 for a day.

Speaker 2 to say,

Speaker 2 I'm hard to set it.

Speaker 2 But I'll be stone a little way.

Speaker 2 Some of the love

Speaker 2 is out of play.

Speaker 2 Say unto me.

Speaker 2 It's the better to be sent and sorry.

Speaker 2 Hake

Speaker 2 on

Speaker 2 me.

Speaker 2 Take

Speaker 2 me

Speaker 2 up.

Speaker 2 I'll be

Speaker 2 gone

Speaker 2 and I can't do

Speaker 2 this

Speaker 2 by

Speaker 2 the way.